1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:01,200 What up, What up? What up? 2 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:13,760 Good morning, Good morning. GMG Third Wednesday, Wednesday, 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:23,040 Wednesday, May 4th June 4th June 4th June 4th, 2025. 4 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:24,680 Look at that. Another beautiful day and I have 5 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:26,840 a beautiful day. I go back coast in the house. 6 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,200 Tyler, Tyler, Tyler, Tyler. Good morning. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,120 Hey, don't they? I'm good. 8 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,920 We thought maybe summertime might be slowing down a little 9 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:36,640 bit in the in the crypto streets. 10 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,120 Pump Fun says no. No. 11 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,040 We're going to be busy, it's going to be a busy couple weeks, 12 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,440 so it's good a lot to talk about. 13 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,040 Pump fun Trump versus magic Eden, OH. 14 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:49,720 Yes, I already forgot about that. 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:51,360 Like the news cycles move so fast. 16 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:56,240 Magic Eden knows Allen a couple beers for for taking some of the 17 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,720 spotlight off of what looks to have been. 18 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,280 Hey, we have a lot to talk about. 19 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,720 You're wearing the far coin hat. I mean, that was what I did. 20 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,480 Yeah. God damn. 21 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,240 So there's that. Like the memes. 22 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:12,320 There's a lot to talk about today. 23 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:14,320 So anyways, sit on the show. We'll talk about all that Pump 24 00:01:14,320 --> 00:01:14,760 fun. Did what? 25 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,440 That's the topic of the show. So we'll talk about Pump Fun and 26 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:19,640 what's going on. Curious about some takes here. 27 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:29,040 And then I we're going to talk about we'll talk about Tyler's 28 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:30,880 top 100, which there's a lot of topics. 29 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:35,360 We'll then also be joined by Jason Atkins from Oros, very 30 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:36,920 good friend of mine and one of our partners. 31 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,360 So we'll can't wait to talk to him about all things, you know, 32 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,680 market making in the markets, etcetera. 33 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,000 Actually, some of us extremely great insight and this finger on 34 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,880 the pulse in the market, probably one of the people I 35 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,360 know that has the closest finger on the pulse to the market in 36 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,560 crypto. So really curious to see Jason 37 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,320 and what he thinks overall. Then today we're bringing back 38 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,440 the eat giveaway. You know, guys, we weren't going 39 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,080 to do a eat giveaway yesterday with you a little bit. 40 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,360 OK, so so cut me some slack here, but I had to we had to 41 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,400 make the call with sins before the show, but so we'll do 3 on 42 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,400 Friday, but that means do 1 today, one Thursday and three on 43 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,320 Fartcoin Friday with Spencer, who will be joining us. 44 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,400 Spencer Ventures or cap gains to talk about moon bears on Friday. 45 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,760 So that'll be exciting. And then last but not least, 46 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:18,200 this show is powered by wild Connect. 47 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,840 Wild Connect is the connectivity network shaping the future of 48 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,040 all chain UX. If you've connected to Web 3 49 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:24,360 app, you've seen while I connect that to the logo. 50 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,960 It's everywhere and not going to trust in crypto as recognizable 51 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:28,680 as visa at checkout. Want to learn more? 52 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,800 Follow while I connect on X and Telegram Tuesday ahead of what's 53 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:33,720 next. Tyler it looks like you're going 54 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:38,560 to tell me what's next day baby four daily NFT and crypto 55 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:43,960 analysis Tyler T on FOMO our cause the kids. 56 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:50,640 Can yeah, looking at markets here, a little bit weak today. 57 00:02:50,640 --> 00:02:55,320 Bitcoin down percent one O 4/4. Ethereum was outperforming. 58 00:02:55,320 --> 00:03:00,000 It still is slightly down .6 percent. 2600 sold down 3%, 59 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,920 lagging a bit at 1:55. We had unit swap and Abe top alt 60 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:07,480 movers on the morning. As we look across some of the 61 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,080 other lines, the Ethereum ETFs are on fire. 62 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,800 Another $100 million in infos yesterday, 12 straight green 63 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,400 sessions. So the ETF buyers are piling 64 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,840 under. We had Trump Media file for a 65 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,040 spot Bitcoin ETF with the SEC aiming to launch the Truth 66 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,720 Social Bitcoin ETF that is in partnership with crypto.com in 67 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,480 Yorkville America Digital. Other trump news controversial 68 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,880 on the day so magic Eden announced that it had 69 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,840 collaborated with the trump meme coin team to launch a trump 70 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,440 branded crypto wallet and trading act powered by 71 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,760 slingshot. Though the Trump family, the 72 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:47,240 sons Donald, junior, Eric quickly came out and denied any 73 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,400 connection to the product and warn them to be very careful. 74 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:56,440 So that is still developing. We had consensus CEO Joe Lubin 75 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,400 on FOMO hour yesterday and he dropped some alpha, perhaps some 76 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,840 news that a major sovereign wealth fund from a very big 77 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,560 country is considering building on Ethereum. 78 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,920 So that's going to be a huge headline to watch. 79 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:15,280 We had SEC Chair Paul Atkins say that it's a new day for the SEC 80 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,320 and that he's prioritizing a rational. 81 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,200 Always good to hear. That what are you saying? 82 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,880 Sorry, it cuts for two seconds. SEC Chair Paul Atkins calling it 83 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,160 a new day for the SEC prioritizing A rational 84 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,600 regulatory framework. So always good to hear that in 85 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,160 corporate treasury news, these headlines keep coming. 86 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:39,160 NASDAQ listed Ed tech firm class over is going to form a Solana 87 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:40,600 Treasury. They already purchased $1 88 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,520 million worth. We had Solar Bank, an energy 89 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,000 company announced a Bitcoin treasury and then breaking 90 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,360 before the show, this Chinese firm we bus, we bus raising $300 91 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,720 million for an XRP treasury. So sole Bitcoin and XRP. 92 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,440 Now if we get down to token air dropping protocol news pump 93 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,640 font, arguably the biggest story of the day, reportedly plans to 94 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:08,760 raise $1 billion in a token sale at a $4 billion valuation. 95 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,800 No word on a potential air drop. So that was somewhat 96 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,240 controversial as well. Rec drinks sold out 180,000 97 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:21,720 drink fastest sell out to date. You love to see that. 98 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,840 And also just a quick notice for those who who didn't meant you 99 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:27,800 have until June 6th to burn those for those rewards and 100 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,240 cases. So the clock is ticking. 101 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,640 Kaido that is live on Instagram and TikTok. 102 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,920 It's socials at least and then teased at their algo should be 103 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,200 coming there in the near future as well. 104 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,560 They also started an injective campaign. 105 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,080 Remember this out AI pretty much chopped on the day the leaders 106 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,720 were were red. Meme coin leaders are red as 107 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,040 well across chains. So Solana memes took a hit in 108 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,360 the wake of the pump fun token news. 109 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,280 But it wasn't just Solana, the ETH memes were down as well. 110 00:05:57,280 --> 00:05:59,120 So this is a broader meme coin sell off. 111 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,760 We saw clad A notable mover in the Believe app Eco up another 112 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,760 60%, 24,000,000 and NFTS. Let's see, Clanosaurus was the 113 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,480 big headline of the day. They ended up minting 97,000 of 114 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,520 these Popkins packs. They raised $19 million. 115 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,520 Well, they sold in total $19 million there. 116 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,800 There is a refund component of this. 117 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,480 Effectively, if you got a pack that does not have this Popkins 118 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,120 in it, you get your money back. So that that led to the the the 119 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,200 high number, but still a huge sale. 120 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:30,680 So how many Popkins are in there? 121 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,240 25,000, I believe, OK. Got it. 122 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,200 So it seems like 3/4 of this is going to get refunded. 123 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,920 So closer to 5 million, but still pretty massive demand. 124 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,120 Got it. OK. 125 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,720 Love, love to see that. There's a lot to talk about, 126 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,640 that's for sure is quickly. Mando, good morning. 127 00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:52,680 Good morning, good morning. How you doing today? 128 00:06:53,280 --> 00:06:54,280 Good morning, guys. How are you? 129 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:01,600 Fantastic, we're good, we're good reviving, you know, despite 130 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,960 some some troubled markets, but we're good, you know, just we're 131 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,160 just we're just running through it met Tyler was running through 132 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,880 topics of the day. But I'll go to you real quick 133 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:11,600 before I go back to Tyler, because I definitely want to 134 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,680 talk about pump font and I want to talk because that's bad news. 135 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,920 And I would you know, I definitely want to take hear 136 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:18,960 both your takes and your opinions, because Tyler, you 137 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:20,280 have some stronger opinions about that one. 138 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,000 I've been reading your texts and I've been reading your tweets, 139 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,920 so I know you got some good opinions on the on the pump font 140 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:27,680 consensus or non consensus trader. 141 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:33,240 And and and I do want to go over the magic eating and Trump shit 142 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,080 because that's funny. That's actually funny as fuck. 143 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:37,720 I shouldn't be laughing, but I thought it was funny. 144 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,800 This is this space is hilarious. But quickly Mando, anything on 145 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,400 the market that we need to pay attention to? 146 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,480 Or is it just all related to pump fun and we may as well just 147 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,320 go there? No, there's been some tariff 148 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,040 headlines. So we just sold off over the 149 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,280 last hour or so because Mexico came out, came out and said 150 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,800 they're going to retaliate to the steel and aluminium tariffs 151 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,040 coming out from the US. So I think there's like a, an 152 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,720 idea that we could see a bit of a rise in let's say short term 153 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,600 tariff headlines and that's going to drag this a little bit 154 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,640 lower the markets. Other than that, the broader 155 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,040 macro market feels OK. We had like an OK jobs figure 156 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,520 yesterday. Stocks, stocks have been fine. 157 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,400 So nothing there. I, I wouldn't just tie this to 158 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,320 punk farm either. Like I think this is just the 159 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:27,360 general chop period here. I don't think this is necessary. 160 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,800 It's like pump fun causing this. Bitcoins barely moved right over 161 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,480 the last few seconds. It's it's like a one O 5K 162 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:39,320 basically the whole time. I think we just we just create 163 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,760 the narratives. As for my take on the pump fun 164 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,520 stuff, like there was a good tweet I saw on the on the 165 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:50,840 timeline maybe a few hours ago, which was like people who come 166 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,480 who were tweeting to get 500 bucks of Laudio are complaining 167 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,640 because pump farm wants to raise a billion dollars. 168 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,360 Like I think part of it is just like a Oh my God that they're 169 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,280 extracting from the, from the ecosystem. 170 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,920 It's it's terrible. Like it's revenue, man. 171 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,880 Like it is revenue at the same time, like they, they create a 172 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:18,920 very, very profitable business. And arguably that seems kind of 173 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:23,800 Fair value, like 4-4 billion. Kaito is 2 right? 174 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:28,280 So pump fun I think makes materially more than them. 175 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:32,480 Yeah, 10 access exactly. Right. 176 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,040 So like, I don't think it's even that that that expensive. 177 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,400 So I think people are just like they just look at they look at 178 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,720 it on a relative basis, like, Oh my God, these people have made 179 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:48,960 so much money from you and now they're doing the but I don't 180 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,200 think that that has not been a a real difference. 181 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,800 If the token does come, it could easily come much go. 182 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:55,000 Much harder than that in my opinion. 183 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,040 So so let's go there, right, because market wise, whatever, 184 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,960 not unchanged, like more on the downside, but still like 185 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,720 whatever, like bitcoins around hovering over one O 5K and it's 186 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,120 been very choppy. Memes got absolutely decimated 187 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,080 yesterday. I mean that far coin date was 188 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,800 fucking crazy. You know, it's like punk fun 189 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,800 news came out and everybody decided to sell far coin but me. 190 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,000 But the record show and Tyler and Mandel bought some per his 191 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,840 tweet. And Tyler has his fart coin hat 192 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:25,200 on because hot air rises. But it was interesting. 193 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,160 So Tyler, run us through the news 1st and then let's discuss 194 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,120 it because I there's a lot of takes on the timeline. 195 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,080 Some I want to share, some I don't really care to share, but 196 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,640 I'm curious to hear what you guys genuinely think here. 197 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:37,760 So Tyler, take us through, run us through the what happened 198 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:38,880 last night. Yeah. 199 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:44,520 So Blockworks is reporting that Pump Fun is kind of shopping 200 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,920 around, planning this $1 billion token sale that would value 201 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,000 their protocol at $4 billion. We don't have any official 202 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:57,320 details from the Pump Fund team. A part of their announcement 203 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,440 from Blockworks says there will be both a private and public 204 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,560 component to the sale. We don't know the ratio there. 205 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,240 We had folks like Cyrus tweeting again, this is rumor, but it it 206 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,680 was somewhat in line. He said that he was kind of DN 207 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:13,280 some details about this potential token launch a few 208 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,320 weeks ago, 1 billion raised at a 4 billion valuation. 209 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,240 That was correct, at least from what Blockworks is reporting. 210 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:24,120 He's saying 25 revenue used for buybacks, 100% unlocked day one 211 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,120 team investors on a 12 month Cliff AirDrop to users, but 212 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,720 wouldn't be on day one. So that's all rumor mail. 213 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:31,640 Separate that from the concrete news. 214 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,880 The concrete news is just the token sale and the public and 215 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:36,960 private investor component of this. 216 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,320 So we don't know a whole lot. And I think based on the news 217 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,440 that we have, it's hard to really, for me, draw a whole lot 218 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,560 of conclusions about what this means for the trenches, for the 219 00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:49,880 broader mean point ecosystem because there's still so many 220 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,240 unknowns. Is there going to be an AirDrop 221 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,000 or not? Are they going to actually use 222 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,240 buybacks to drive up the Toker price? 223 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,600 I think those two components have huge swings and potential 224 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,400 outcomes for this one. I have a lot of thoughts. 225 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,080 There's a lot of directions we can go. 226 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,680 I think First off it's hard to get too caught up in what the 227 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:15,000 majority of of CT says but man we have the most viral apps 228 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:20,760 created in crypto this entire cycle on the most successful and 229 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:26,000 the the majority is complaining about them doing a token launch 230 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,080 which is. Just everyone is just 231 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,080 hilariously broke for, for Bitcoin at this level that 232 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:36,080 that's generally my take away. I feel like that is what is the, 233 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,760 the annoyance about this. It's like we're still stuck in 234 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,000 the trenches, like trying to play these games. 235 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,120 And now they're even extracting another billion. 236 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:46,440 I think that's basically what this is. 237 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:52,640 And like Bitcoin is $105,000. I'm going to say that how, how 238 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,720 long have we been doing that? This fucking show? 239 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,800 To Bitcoin. At $105,000 we. 240 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:00,520 But nobody owns Bitcoin though, right? 241 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,840 Like that, That that argument is right, Mando, but no one has 242 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,240 Bitcoin, Mando. Like I get maybe you should own 243 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:07,800 Bitcoin. No, I get that. 244 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,520 I get you're right, you're right, like your argument is 245 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,080 right. I'm just saying our listeners. 246 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,880 No, but like maybe we should my. Closure to Bitcoin are are 247 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,760 Bitcoin puppets and and maybe. We should be focusing on the 248 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,240 idea that people should be owning a bit more of that stuff. 249 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,360 You know what I mean? POPO to the fans, the to the 250 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,200 credits. Sorry, PO is like hardcore. 251 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,720 It's just memes, right? If you're playing the meme meme 252 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:39,400 coins. I, I made this point on, on, on 253 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,920 B check show the other day, which is if you, if you look, 254 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:46,720 because obviously I run a casino, right? 255 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:51,040 Or we, yes, you look at RTP of the games you can look at and, 256 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,680 and we have a 1% house edge on, on a vast majority of Summer 257 00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:56,960 Games and some black slip games. It's like 99 1/2%. 258 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:02,320 That means out of 100 spins, we will win 49 1/2 and you will win 259 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,560 50 1/2. Sorry, we will win 50 1/2. 260 00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:09,920 You will win 49 1/2. Pump fun as a casino, I think 261 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,280 has much worse RTP than that for the vast majority of people. 262 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,240 They've made a billion. The trading box have made a 263 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,160 billion I don't know how much radium and meteor have made, but 264 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,560 I would guess it's it's in the realm of 500 million to a 265 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,800 billion and then you you got to think insiders have got the vast 266 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,040 majority of of that. So I don't know how much are all 267 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,040 pump fun coins worth together. Can we work that out? 268 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,120 Pump fun four and. 1/2 billion 4. 1/2 billion 5. 269 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:40,040 Billion pump fun market coin market cap pump fun coins market 270 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:41,640 cap. How do you know that? 271 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:47,080 Coin Gecko. Coin Gecko has it, so 3.7 272 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,720 billion, OK. And I just said roughly 3 273 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,080 billion of that is already gone in fees, OK. 274 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,400 And now you've got to think that only one of those is really 275 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,400 listed on centralized exchanges, which is far coin right, only 276 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,320 really one and I think peanut is too. 277 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,040 And and other than that it's like 1 to 2% liquidity pool. 278 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,000 So with 3.7 billion, you've probably got about 100 to 200 279 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,480 million of liquidity to actually get out right Max. 280 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,960 These are not easy games to win is basically what I'm trying to 281 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,000 pitch for people right? Like so if you are sitting there 282 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,960 annoyed at suddenly pump fun doing a token like you've just 283 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,480 missed the point of pump fun. It is a casino. 284 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:36,240 It is a casino and the and the and the RTPS are are wildly bad. 285 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:38,720 If you look at the number of wallets which make money 286 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:44,960 consistently trading pump fun is like 1 percent 2% I think I 287 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,200 think in the last month only there was something like only 5 288 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:49,680 bullets have made more than 10 Ki. 289 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,040 Just like what I'm saying about this is that you have to be very 290 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:57,520 honest with the odds. And I think people get 291 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,880 misconstrued with the odds here, like the odds are massively 292 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,160 stacked against your favorite. If you're, if you're, if you're 293 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,600 playing these games, you can get the 100 X, you can get the 294 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:10,800 10,000 X, but actually you're, you're kind of betting at a, at 295 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,360 a casino. And if you have your whole 296 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,040 portfolio in that, then it's a, it's a real worry. 297 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,160 I I yeah, I agree. I don't think a lot of people 298 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,760 have their whole portfolio and the Pom Funk casino, I would 299 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,080 think they have it in memes. Do you consider having a 300 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,120 portfolio in like the larger memes having your portfolio in 301 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:28,680 the casino? Honest question. 302 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,360 I'm talking about like doge Pepe mog, not not even mog, sorry. 303 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,200 I think. I think coins above a billion. 304 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,640 Sorry. More established memes you can 305 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,240 maybe like there's been value creation, but pump fun itself as 306 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,240 an ecosystem and and maybe Solana mean coins, maybe as a 307 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,440 broader extension, but particularly pump fun that I 308 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,800 just went through the numbers there, right, Like about 3.7 309 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:54,280 billion of value created about maybe 2 1/2 three billion of 310 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,960 value already lost to fees. And then you got to assume which 311 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,520 of those wallets have actually made the money and can you 312 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:07,240 monetize it? Like Pepe has unbelievable 313 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,520 liquidity, like unbelievable even does actually very, very 314 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,359 liquid liquidity and it's listed on every centralized exchange as 315 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,640 does Doge. I think you've got to just 316 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,280 consider the the casino that you've been playing at here a 317 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:24,240 little bit. And and if you, if you, if you 318 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,680 have been seeing it as that and like, yeah, we can make money 319 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,160 and it's 1000 X and it's a Ponzi that we all get into earlier 320 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,200 than fine. But like if you're now sitting 321 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,400 claiming that punk funds bring out a coin, like they just have 322 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,560 created the best RTP situation for themselves. 323 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,840 And and yeah, like, people are going to continue to play at 324 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,920 that casino then, then cool. Yeah, fair. 325 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,760 That's very fair. 10,000 X drag Where else are you going to get? 326 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:50,720 I mean that was the whole story of the cycle right? 327 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:52,960 Like I see obese made a post, but Stolongo Tyler was like, yo, 328 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,360 like the same people saying, Oh, everybody's complaining you 329 00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:58,000 don't have enough big corners. The same people that were 330 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:03,240 pushing the daily runner and the the hyper rotation this cycle 331 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,480 narrative, Like if you don't hyper rotate, you're going to 332 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,640 miss out. And now we're asking people we 333 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,280 not us, but like we the people are asking others like, yo, why 334 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,240 don't you know this one is because you guys were promoting 335 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,880 the hyper rotation of tokens all cycle long. 336 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,720 And actually K money does defense. 337 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:22,640 It's his credit. Sorry, no defense. 338 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,960 He was the one thing that would believe in something because you 339 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,960 know, these guys, these markers are like really crazy, like the 340 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:32,480 the the the rebranding of shit coins to daily runner is going 341 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,880 to hyper speed this industry to zero. 342 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,800 And looks like he was right. Tyler, you have been voicing on 343 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,960 the timeline and behind the scenes how you don't see this as 344 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,800 bearish memes, like stole memes and stole itself because 345 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,160 consensus has that. So what, what do you think of 346 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,360 that? Because that was the first take 347 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:51,400 of most people. I tend to agree with you 348 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,800 actually because I like to maybe take non consensus trades. 349 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,680 So what what do you what does that mean? 350 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,160 Like what's your take here? Like what do you think? 351 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,000 And my, my first gut reaction, it was kind of in line with 352 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,240 everyone's like, this is going to be a big liquidity suck 353 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,080 because it's a top sign. Like we all have PTSD from the 354 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:10,440 other side meant NFTS 2022, which was not obvious in the 355 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,640 moment, but was more of an obvious top sign in hindsight. 356 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,840 And then these Rams pull out and, and like 75% of respondents 357 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,560 said this is bearish for, for soul and soul meme eco. 358 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,240 So I saw at that time like how broadly consensus it was, which 359 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,200 made me kind of second guess my initial reaction. 360 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:35,280 So I think I think there's still there's still some open details 361 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,280 that we need to be confirmed on all this. 362 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,520 But I think there's a lot, I mean, you know, if there's going 363 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,720 to be an air drop or not, I think that's going to be a a 364 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,040 huge factor in this. I think there's also a component 365 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,840 of who where is the liquidity coming from, from the pump token 366 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:49,520 sale? Like is it actually the trench 367 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:55,000 warriors or is it institutions? Is it is it whales with deeper 368 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,040 wallets, money that would not have entered the trenches 369 00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:02,840 anyway? And my gut is likely that cohort 370 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,680 who was going to drive a majority of the pump fund token 371 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:11,560 by pressure. And if that's the case, you can 372 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,360 make an argument that it's more bullish. 373 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,000 For the eco, especially if it comes if you get positive price 374 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,440 action and an air drop, then that becomes a much more bullish 375 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,640 setup for the Solana meme ecosystem. 376 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,440 So I think that's one component. The second I, I think there's a 377 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:26,800 lot of people who are saying memes are done. 378 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,360 The meme cycle is over. It's topped already. 379 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,240 I don't, I don't know if I can get there. 380 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,080 I feel like it's like saying that sports gambling is over. 381 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,200 Like I think people want to do this now. 382 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,120 It doesn't mean that the IT doesn't mean that we're going to 383 00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:43,040 continue in the same way that we've been doing. 384 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,320 Like maybe we won't have the the meme runner of the day in this 385 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,360 hyper rotation. Maybe it'll be more of a 386 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:51,760 rotation back to some of the the more stronger community tokens. 387 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:53,800 I'm not sure exactly how it's going to move forward. 388 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,080 I don't think we're going to see a total utter collapse of the 389 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,440 meme coin ecosystem overall as a result of this. 390 00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:03,520 But I'm still working through my thoughts. 391 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,560 And I do think if, if, if pump pump comes out and confirms the 392 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,520 details and say there is no AirDrop, we're just going to do 393 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,760 this. And they're, and they're not 394 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,840 going to do any buybacks. I think they're going to face a 395 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,480 lot of backlash. And there's there's certainly no 396 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,080 shortage of competitors right now. 397 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,840 And if they face a lot of backlash, maybe pump fun has 398 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,520 topped. So, so we'll see. 399 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:26,320 But which is why I don't think they'll do that. 400 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,560 I think they will reward the users in some capacity. 401 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,080 They see the success hype is having with the buybacks. 402 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,880 And of course, they they don't necessarily have to do that, but 403 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,640 to me, I could you, you can run the scenarios. 404 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,680 I feel like the upside that you would create with the token has 405 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,880 to end this broader positive community sentiment would have 406 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,360 to outweigh, you know, you giving up that portion of 407 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:51,800 income. So that's where I'm at. 408 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,520 They'll do buy backs. They'll do buy backs. 409 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,800 I've heard rumors that they have taken that they've taken off, 410 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:02,040 taken out so much money that they have been like debanked. 411 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,400 Yeah, those are not rumors. This is true because I've heard 412 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,240 the same thing and I know someone happened they have made. 413 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,600 So much money that they've missed you. 414 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,000 Back well, it's normal right? They live in the UK right? 415 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,880 And they the UK, they're maybe fuck with people making money. 416 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,800 So maybe token is the best way to do this. 417 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,400 Just plant a token, then token. They sell the token and that's a 418 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,040 better way of. Yeah. 419 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,240 Of monetizing the money. So there's some takes on the 420 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,960 timeline. You got Andy saying universe 421 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,680 where pump fund launched with 1 billion raised is actually 422 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,680 bullish for memes. Raises mostly filled with funds. 423 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,360 People without meme coin exposure. 424 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:38,160 OK no big liquidity stock from Unchained pump fund then does an 425 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,960 eye drop to users who get new liquidity like funded by the 426 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,960 bid. But then you have spider who 427 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,280 goes pump fund knows memes are dying hence the token launch. 428 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,240 At the end of the day it's just harder and harder for people to 429 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,360 justify pushing 100K plus into meme coins wise. 430 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:53,360 Which is why Internet capital markets is a refreshing 431 00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:56,000 narrative. Some of these coins can justify 432 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:57,680 it if their flyways are good enough. 433 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,720 Can't help but feel that I want to expose myself that sense to 434 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,840 meme coins. It's kind of like opposite takes 435 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,680 here. Personally speaking, I don't 436 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:05,880 really understand the take of like this. 437 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,000 Another trump moment. Remember when trump coin came 438 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,880 and everything kind of dumped? As a matter of fact, far coin 439 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,800 went to all time high last time there was a Trump coin and the 440 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,520 opposite happened yesterday. So we had an immediate sell off 441 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,480 aggressive of some of the top meme coins in Solana crypto. 442 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,080 UB was saying consensus is that Solana and Solana memes are dead 443 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,960 here. Would be funny if I tend to 444 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,120 agree with that. But also sometimes I'm wary of 445 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:33,600 being anti consensus because sometimes like hey, you're just 446 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,680 the last that Japanese soldier meme, right? 447 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,520 That's what Cyrus commented on my post yesterday. 448 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,800 That was funny. So what do you think here for 449 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,880 Solana's ecosystem and it's me, I mean? 450 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,920 Bring up every Solana meme coin. It's had a really good. 451 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:46,840 Round. I don't want to. 452 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,640 Well, Spark com was in in in March. 453 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,200 Spark COM was trading at 250. Yeah. 454 00:23:54,240 --> 00:24:01,240 Trading at 400, right? Moodang was was at in in April 455 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,360 40 million, now 200. Like you're talking about big 456 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:07,760 moves across the board in pretty much every single time. 457 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,320 It's not been a bad period here for Solan and meme coins. 458 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,040 I would be a bit more wary, like I don't think this is what I 459 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,920 would say is firstly, pump fund has got a number of different 460 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,120 people who are invested in it, like a ton of different people 461 00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:24,080 invested in it. And it was kind of already known 462 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,240 that this was they were doing this for the last month or so. 463 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,840 There's been rumors going around that they were going to do this. 464 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,640 And a lot of people have been saying on the timeline, this is 465 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,560 a big worry for Solana because if they try to do their own 466 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,320 chain, well, this comes a little quid. 467 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,960 You suck. So the part of what you have 468 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:42,080 seen probably over the last few couple of weeks, at least in 469 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:43,960 Solana meme coins has probably been this. 470 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:49,120 You know, you hear this headline like people, people see the 471 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:50,000 headline. They're like, Oh my God, I've 472 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,080 got to sell salon mean coins, I've got to sell Saul. 473 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,240 And actually that's kind of already happened. 474 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:57,600 Like it's probably been happening for the last two 475 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,920 weeks. You just didn't really know why. 476 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,720 So I think part of the move has probably happened. 477 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,600 But I do think that I'm just more bullish on ether. 478 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,360 I'm just more bullish on ether. I think Ethan's got a cleaner 479 00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:12,520 narrative. We had Joe Lubin on yesterday. 480 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,000 It's not that I'm all bullish on activity. 481 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,600 I actually think activity will stay and maybe even fee revenue 482 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,560 will stay with Salana. I, I, I don't think Ethan is at 483 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,120 that spot. What I'm bullish at for Ethan is 484 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,360 hopium and the treasury trade, which is basically what he is 485 00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:32,680 now talking about the idea of companies coming in and building 486 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,000 up ETH treasuries that potentially we're going to get 487 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,280 youth staking as well for the ETF, which allows for even more 488 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,000 of this, of this ETH treasury trade. 489 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,120 And I, I think it's, you know, part of it is also just a 490 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:50,480 rebound from nobody owning it. You know, like even before we 491 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:51,560 went live asked does anyone know? 492 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,360 I don't, I don't think people even own it Like they, they hate 493 00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:55,880 to own it. Like it's like it's like a 494 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,080 disease to own ETH versus owning an. 495 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:06,600 I have to say, after yesterday, you know Joe, Oh, fucking after 496 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,800 the show, I'll post a full interview because I really need 497 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,320 people to listen to it. Joe cooked. 498 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,960 Yeah. But like, think about how you 499 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,480 own soul. You're like, I own soul and I 500 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,360 quite like it. You know, you're an eating like, 501 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,720 Oh yeah, I don't know, maybe I should have Mog or maybe I 502 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,560 should have Pepe or Rag. Like you, just like you, you're 503 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,840 just told not to own it. And I think that is its strength 504 00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:29,960 if it does pick up, because I still don't, I actually just 505 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,760 think it's not even owned, like it's as little owned by the 506 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,160 trenches right now as Bitcoin in my opinion. 507 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:41,720 Like people do not own it. And I think that that if it, if 508 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,680 it builds any sort of a narrative, can be very, very 509 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:49,360 strong. Yeah, this is. 510 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,200 Yeah, Go ahead. OK. 511 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,440 Is this pump fun token going to be a buy at at 4 billion? 512 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,960 Are you guys, are you guys clearing up some funds to buy on 513 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:07,080 the gun or to buy on presale? It's, it's really difficult 514 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,520 because I think it's one of those classic things in D5 where 515 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,480 you like start analyzing like, Oh my God, like the buyback's 516 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,880 going to be insane. And pump fund revenues down 80% 517 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:17,600 in the last three months or four months. 518 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,280 It's down a lot. And that's partly that's because 519 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,640 of other competitors and partly because the Solana casino has, 520 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,320 has, has slowed somewhat after Trump. 521 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,960 I don't know what the annualized revenue is on pump fund. 522 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,360 It's it's definitely very high, but it's probably in the low 523 00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:38,640 hundreds of millions rather than in the high hundreds of 524 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,640 1,000,000 I think. Last time a company raised at $4 525 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,160 billion and it was not SEO but it was Yuga Labs. 526 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,520 So you can't compare tokens, but you can compare valuations I 527 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,280 believe. And Yuga Labs at the time was 528 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,560 making a fuck ton of money too in revenue. 529 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,320 Similar to pump font in terms of like royalties etcetera. 530 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,840 But I hate comparing because there's such bad comparisons. 531 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,680 But the four billion, I don't know. 532 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,360 Are you guys buying at $4 billion? 533 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,760 I I would not buy but hyper liquid makes it look very cheap. 534 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,000 The thing is this is the hyper liquid member. 535 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,920 Looks very cheap as a chain. And I'm buying 2 billion. 536 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,640 Can look very expensive as an app, so pump fun if it's really 537 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,000 smart here. And what people are already 538 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,960 saying is they're actually pitching this as a chain and 539 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:30,200 it's going to be its own chain. And if that is going to be the 540 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,480 case, then you could be like, well, this could be valued close 541 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,480 to hyper liquid and with which there's like a really high 542 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,080 upside. And like maybe it does build out 543 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,760 the app ecosystem and you know, it goes down that route. 544 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,560 But if it's just an app, then yeah, probably, probably fair 545 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,400 values around that. I think I'm a buyer. 546 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,840 I, I, I'm just going to push back on the 80% reduction. 547 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,440 I've seen people, I think the, a lot of the bears can kind of 548 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,560 point to that. It's like maybe it's down 80% 549 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,880 from the blow off Trump. Too weak tail, period. 550 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,760 But it's fun. Fun is still making a fuck ton 551 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,080 of money. I don't know what barricades 552 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,400 people are talking about. Yeah, I'm. 553 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:06,880 Making one one half million a day. 554 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,680 It's a great business. So what's that 500 million? 555 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,160 How much is radium making I? Think in line. 556 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:24,760 In line Yeah, I. Mean you got me. 557 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,440 I'm just looking at the term Artemis Terminal for how much 558 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,160 Radium's made. But like there are some clear 559 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,080 comps here, right? If it's just going to be an app, 560 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:40,520 and I think that is, that's worth considering basically. 561 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:42,640 It is. Can you hear me? 562 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,840 We can hear you now. I think radiums is not as sexy 563 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,320 of. Course it's going to. 564 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,560 Be a dumb thing to say. Dude pump phones make a ton of 565 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,080 money. Like I just don't. 566 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,960 Get the if they announce A buyback, I think it's a, it's a 567 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,320 double, I think even 2X at 4 billion. 568 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,720 That definitely do the buyback. For sure, that's the most easy 569 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,880 flywheel, top of my flywheel you can come up with like buyback. 570 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,360 I'll be in the pre sale if they announce that and confirm it. 571 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,840 I think they will do it regardless, Tyler, but I see 572 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,480 what you mean. But yeah. 573 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,640 I won't be like shoving super hard but. 574 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:23,920 So let me ask you guys something. 575 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:33,000 Should I do pre sale Jamiriad? I mean, I'm looking at it like 576 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,280 that. Are you making $500 million a 577 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:38,000 year? Well. 578 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,840 We're doing $4 billion, dude, obviously. 579 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,720 I think everyone's looking like everyone, everyone this is, this 580 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,040 is just pocket watching there, isn't it? 581 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,040 It's like, Oh my God, maybe I should do that because they're 582 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:51,600 doing. I think it's very difficult. 583 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,040 I'm funny. You know what? 584 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,400 I. Mean, I mean this is going to be 585 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,600 like ICO season. Like yeah, you had the the Kobe 586 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,440 like solar sonar news, not all gold echo. 587 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:10,560 That was massive, massive like making ICO is pretty much legal 588 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,680 and now this and people want to tell me they're bearish crypto. 589 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,560 Like you have an ICO kind of season coming here. 590 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,440 Like a lot of people trying to compare this to like a double 591 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,280 top thing. The pump fund Trump was first. 592 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,360 The second one is this. Do you guys really feel that way 593 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,880 about this pump fund news? I I am I crazy not to think that 594 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,960 like I don't think pump funds thing is going to destroy the 595 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,640 market. Like why do people think that? 596 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,120 I have to say the thing that I, and I don't know if you would 597 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,960 agree with me, I never go on pump fun ever. 598 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,720 I haven't been since like Q4 or something. 599 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,000 I've never. As an app, for me, it's more 600 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:59,720 middleware, right? You're really trading on Flex 601 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,880 Proton, one of these trading bots that like actually make it 602 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,360 discernible for you to actually view. 603 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,000 Even the streaming content is not that good. 604 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,040 So like Pump Fun has made it very easy people to create 605 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,280 tokens, but like it, I don't think people like are hanging 606 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,040 out on Pump Fun. I don't know if I like not. 607 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,280 As much anymore. I don't know, maybe they are. 608 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,760 I mean, they're trying to get all these creators to make I. 609 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,080 Mean now. They don't have shows now, like 610 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,120 you have the the Gainesy show, you have Eddie's show. 611 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:31,520 They're bringing a bunch of originals. 612 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,680 They're going towards content. You're right. 613 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:34,840 I mean, I don't, I don't go on pump fun. 614 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,440 I never did really. I bought a bunch of shit coins 615 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:38,680 there. I'm trying to. 616 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:40,520 Use your. That's what I kind of mean. 617 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:45,000 Like Hyper Liquid is an app that you go on and you use, right? 618 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,560 I think pump fun you you could argue. 619 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,040 It's a protocol. As as yeah as like a very 620 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,560 democratized form of token creation. 621 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,360 Yeah, it is. It's a protocol like the aliens, 622 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:57,600 right? That's the beauty of it, though. 623 00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,680 I don't go on the Radium and Jupiter often, but I'm still 624 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,880 interacting with the protocol. Interesting. 625 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,240 What do you go on? If you're if you're not using 626 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,320 radium or Jupiter, then I guess. You're using. 627 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,520 The the photon or. The photon Nova like, you know, 628 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:16,440 at least interesting something. Goes on on Jupiter quite a lot. 629 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:18,960 Yeah, I I mean, I only used your. 630 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,040 Better and and to be heard BLA like that is the criticism of 631 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,160 radium too, though, that it was middleware. 632 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,120 You know, that it was that it was that it was middleware for 633 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,080 other people. Fun, fun. 634 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,080 To me, science ecosystem feels very interdependent. 635 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,880 You know, it feels very much like it all works because the 636 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:42,280 other things all work together. Yeah, I don't know. 637 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,400 Anyways, that's interesting, as we'll see. 638 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:47,320 I do we do have Jason in the studio. 639 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,240 I'm going to bring him on to this conversation because this 640 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,440 what up, Jason, Hey. Fellas, how you doing? 641 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,520 How you doing? I knew you were going to do that 642 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,320 with my accent. You can't help yourself. 643 00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,160 How you doing, mate? Hey, show us. 644 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:00,920 Show us the mullet. Oh. 645 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:03,360 It's getting pretty bad at the back. 646 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,160 Should I do 1? Yeah, party in the back. 647 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,480 Should I do 1? Sorry for offending all all your 648 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,440 all your viewers. It's my first first course of 649 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:14,960 action. Australian accent in a bad 650 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,800 haircut. Jason, I have a question for 651 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,120 you. Jason Atkins from Oros. 652 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,440 I mean, he runs the shit. He's the best, He's one of the 653 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:24,719 most smartest people I know in crypto. 654 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,159 We'll get to your interview with in a few questions for you like 655 00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:29,360 that we've prepped up. But Jason, what do you think of 656 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,239 this pump fun news like the market reacted in a certain way. 657 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,159 You've, you know, interacted with Solon and the ecosystem a 658 00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:38,719 ton and you know it very well, more than most people actually. 659 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,239 What do you make of the pump fund use for the Solana 660 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,440 ecosystem and for the broader crypto here? 661 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,560 I mean, I was just in the waiting room listening to you 662 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,560 guys and Amanda, you're making some pretty good points that if 663 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,719 you're looking at, we got this temptation in crypto to like 664 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,080 value things on revenue or earnings of of the firm as soon 665 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:57,800 as we're trying to like work out comparables. 666 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,560 Whereas if you look at something like Hyper Liquid that's done so 667 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,960 well, it's not just because of the revenue, it's because of the 668 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,000 forward-looking outlook that they've explained about the 669 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,720 change. So to your point, is pump fun 670 00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:13,320 just raising a billion dollars to like add, I don't know, a new 671 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,880 feature set to the UI or add new protocols? 672 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,080 Are they going to be middleware for to your point, no, they're 673 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,840 not. That sort of money has left. 674 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:22,960 Like I think the the main things we're missing are we're getting 675 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,240 distracted by like the billion dollar raise at 4 million 676 00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:26,800 valuation. Are they going to do a buy back 677 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,520 when in reality the question is like what are you doing with the 678 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,400 money? And that question is going to 679 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,760 answer whether you should participate in the pre sale. 680 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,440 I think the the buyback stuff like undoubtedly supply demand 681 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,560 dynamics, sure it increases your likelihood of being OK at 4 682 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,560 billion versus waiting for a dip. 683 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,880 But ultimately, can it go from 4 billion to where's hyper liquid 684 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,000 now like 3536 billion? The difference between that, 685 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,840 it's almost like it's speculative on the 686 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,200 forward-looking outlook versus just a straight revenue 687 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,560 calculation. They earn this much per year, 688 00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,120 therefore they'll do this buy back. 689 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,960 That really is like a single point of failure that's pretty 690 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,200 hard to sustain because to your point, if the revenues of pumped 691 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,400 up funds keep coming off or don't rebound in the way that 692 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,800 they thought, that valuation starts to become questioned 693 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,920 because it's not what it was at the peak. 694 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,920 There are less revenues. Can they reinvent themselves? 695 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,360 So really, if the question I've got is like, what are you going 696 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,920 to do with a billion dollars? And I think before they they run 697 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,760 the ICO, they're going to have to tell investors what the plan 698 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:25,960 is. Like you don't raise that sort 699 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,480 of money publicly or privately without like a data room and a 700 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,600 deck and some explanation of like what you're buying into. 701 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,440 Because if it's just I'm buying into buybacks, you're kind of 702 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,040 playing with like, when will the market work out that this is 703 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,160 capped and it's capped on, is someone going to come along and 704 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,040 do what other NFC marketplaces did the open sea, right? 705 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,120 Like at its peak open sea you would have looked at and being 706 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,160 like, this is the thing, revenues, everything. 707 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,840 And then how quick does that go? So I think if you need it to be 708 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,760 something more for 4 billion to be sort of a good entry point, 709 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,920 you might get a short term sort of double up as you guys pointed 710 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,520 out. But yeah, I think hopefully 711 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,920 we've done a really good job of, of pulling liquidity and pulling 712 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,960 business in. But of course, 1 discernible 713 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,040 difference between what they've done and what pump the funds 714 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,000 doing is they've controlled every piece of the stack the 715 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,560 whole way. Like no, they say money, they 716 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,280 control liquidity on their product. 717 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:23,200 So like everything about control has led to like that initial 718 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,160 setup for the token to do what it did. 719 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,480 Now I think it's done more because of like again, before 720 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,360 looking up prospects and and revenues increasing and usage 721 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,280 increasing, but ultimately it's control like the tokens, very 722 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,960 similar to like if someone that launches the token restricts 723 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,960 supply quite a lot and controls everything and that would like 724 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,760 make the price go higher. It's like that doesn't 725 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,920 necessarily mean it's worth what it's worth, but that control 726 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,120 aspect is, is pretty valuable. And I think it's a pretty big 727 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,720 difference between what pumped off fund has got and what hyper 728 00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:56,840 liquid's got. I think liquidity for the pumped 729 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,640 off fund token is going to be essential because guys like you 730 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,480 guys that may buy into the pre sell aren't going to hold if 731 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,920 this thing's whipping around super quick constantly on very, 732 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,160 very light fumes. I mean, you know, you know, how 733 00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:11,280 about trends? Will hold on to pump farm coin 734 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:16,080 at $4 billion, but. Actually, I mean the actual the 735 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,120 best thesis I've heard. We had this chat internally 736 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:19,240 today. This is actually kind of an 737 00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:22,760 interesting theory is that a lot of the firms during the meme 738 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,480 cycle that wanted to participate in the trenches but just didn't 739 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,440 a have the expertise or remit to do so are looking for exposure 740 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:35,160 to memes And like maybe a single point of like basket trading 741 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,000 pump fund as the token. Because if main main cycle kicks 742 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,040 off again and no one else comes and competes with pump dot fund, 743 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,520 let's assume they stay as the incumbent market leader, then 744 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,280 pump dot fund token will go up. And that's like exposure to 745 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,320 every meme that will launch without you having to, to your 746 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,840 point pilot sit there and and look at the UI and, and like 747 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,960 grimace at how painful it is to even work out what's listing and 748 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:58,760 and who's listing it. Why? 749 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:00,440 What if pump fund? Makes sense. 750 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,400 Maybe that exposure helps. Pump fund, make fart corn 751 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,920 reserve. I thought Tyler told you about 752 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:08,680 that? I was like, what if they're 753 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,520 going to buy? That you need the you need the 754 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,400 fart coin Treasury strategy. No one's done that yet. 755 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,240 That's exactly exactly. That's like the trendy thing to 756 00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:19,760 do at the moment. Reverse back on the onto 757 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,000 something on the New York Stock Exchange, then use the assets to 758 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,080 back buying something. Why not fart Coin? 759 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,640 So that's a good question and I want to get to interviewing you. 760 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,400 But like Ayadra says, isn't that what the Solana token is for? 761 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,640 Exposure to the meme coin casino. 762 00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:39,680 I would probably say you asked Solana that they would say let's 763 00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:41,160 we're we're a little bit more than that. 764 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:42,920 But yeah, I mean, that's what drove the last cycle. 765 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:45,320 It drove it last month, dropped to midpoint. 766 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,440 Pump fun, right? Pump Fun makes more money with 767 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,080 which is so if you're just trying to is. 768 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,960 Pump chain really happening like L1? 769 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,080 What else do you do with a billion dollars in crypto? 770 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,480 Yeah, but what also do you need a billion dollars to do a chain? 771 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:02,520 They need it for the evaluation like. 772 00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:05,200 A billion dollars is a lot of money. 773 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,520 You're going to try and call yourself as hyper liquid. 774 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,440 You need to chain and I. Think to sponsor our show. 775 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,800 I think, didn't they reach out? I remember hearing about that 776 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,040 some. Somehow they reached out to 777 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,040 rhetoric. Yeah, dude. 778 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,640 We got to get them. We're about to relocate the show 779 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,800 on Monday somewhere. Fucking stream on Pump Fun. 780 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:31,600 Yo, Alan, I, Alan, my, my kids are going to be Jewish. 781 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,120 We got to got to work together, you know? 782 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,880 Come on, that's a hard appeal to pass. 783 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:39,760 Yeah, exactly. Why do you think I'm with 784 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,680 Vanessa? I I'm trying to join the tribe 785 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:43,280 friends. Are serious, man, no. 786 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:49,560 No, no, I'm I'm marrying one. OK, I, I this is how OK Anyways, 787 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:56,880 OK, before we get cancelled on here, so I don't know we'll see 788 00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,000 what happens with pump font yadda yadda yadda. 789 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,440 Look, we'll talk about the whole magic Eden and something. 790 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,760 What your point Jason, what you said about the reverse back 791 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,840 stuff that we were, we had Joe Lubin on here yesterday like 792 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:09,440 obviously he's done. That, yeah, I saw. 793 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,320 Yeah, we pushed. We pushed Jason for Joe 794 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,520 yesterday. Yeah, I got, I got kicked off 795 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,480 the show though, as you were saying, Amanda, no one holds 8. 796 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,520 I have, I have some holdings left. 797 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,960 I've I've weathered the storm a little bit and I was happy I was 798 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,720 replaced by Joe Lubin. Yes, I was like, sorry Jason 799 00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:30,640 last minute got Joe on. Do you mind coming on Wednesday? 800 00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:33,840 But you know what it is? It's Trump, CZ Joe and then 801 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,920 Jason up Only you know. Yeah. 802 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,120 Only getting to bed every time. Companies that have announced 803 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,080 they're going to do this reverse back and that have mooned have 804 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,320 been the Bitcoin ones, sole strategies I think. 805 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,400 And then now this ETH Sharp Link firm, I'm pretty sure somebody 806 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,120 announced they did it with DOGE and their stock went down like 807 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:58,560 40% and I think I wasn't. Kidding about far Coin. 808 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,400 No, but like somebody should do that, right? 809 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,280 Surely they should do that with DOGE, right? 810 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,040 Like that does feel like the sort of thing that maybe DOGE is 811 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,920 the only asset in crypto which has actually outperformed 812 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:11,760 Bitcoin. It's the only asset. 813 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,280 Oh, since since it's since it's like over the last, I think it's 814 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,320 5410 years, whatever how long it's been around. 815 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,160 And yeah, I think those. Those have got Tesla, like Elon 816 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,480 at some point, or SpaceX is going to announce that they're 817 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:25,920 going to hold their treasury in DOGE. 818 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,440 So maybe why didn't Jeremy dump though on the back of the 819 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,600 Bitcoin buys? Mixed, yeah. 820 00:42:33,720 --> 00:42:35,920 They're done again, Mixed. Yeah, they're choppy. 821 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:36,800 Choppy. OK. 822 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,440 I think those is the next. I think you're right. 823 00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:43,400 But I think it's like there's a difference between like I'm 824 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,960 going to hold my treasury in Bitcoin and there's I'm going to 825 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,480 run the micro strategy playbook of like issuing debt and equity 826 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,760 to buy more and more and more on this like infinite money printed 827 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,280 glitch. I think like a company that has 828 00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,960 a slightly irrelevant business model, GameStop is like a meme 829 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,880 at this at this point to then go and like deploy assets into 830 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,440 another. It's kind of feels like why 831 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:06,840 would not just buy Bitcoin at that point? 832 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:11,080 Whereas Microstrategy's got this like flywheel effect thing going 833 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:12,840 that everyone else to try to replicate. 834 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,040 So slightly slightly different like mechanics on it, but. 835 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,040 So yeah, there's a lot. Jason, we need to have you more. 836 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,200 I want to ask you some questions here, but we need to why don't 837 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,640 we do the you know, we got to talk more markets with you on 838 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,200 the show. You, you know, you're shit. 839 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,560 I like that. You know these guys. 840 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,040 We well, let's get into who you are and what you guys do at 841 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,520 oros, because, you know, we talk about market makers a lot on the 842 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,120 show. Obviously we talk about winter 843 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:41,080 nuke the most, but you know when the token dumps, you know when a 844 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:46,280 new sensitive regards, but but when a token pumps, you know, 845 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,000 you know we we, we, we definitely don't give them the 846 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:50,960 credit. I haven't heard that. 847 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:52,240 I haven't heard that nickname before. 848 00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:53,560 That's not a bad one. Winter, Duke. 849 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,440 It's. The first time you've heard. 850 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,000 That I'm playing though, I, I like the folks there. 851 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,880 I got some homies obviously out there and, and, and, and 852 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:02,320 they're, there's some of the best ones. 853 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,880 But Jason, you know, you guys, Otros, of course, we've, we've 854 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,960 hosted some events together. We recently hosted the Dubai 855 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,120 token 2049 event. You sponsor a ton of our events, 856 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,200 you know, you're partnering with us in many ways, which I can't 857 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,560 talk about just yet on the myriad level, but soon. 858 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,200 I can't wait. But why don't you just give 859 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,240 yourself a brief intro and you know what Auris does? 860 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,360 Yeah, cool. We do a little bit more than 861 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,600 just sponsor events with Farooq and the rug radio thing. 862 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,760 But so we're a market maker. Auris is a global high frequency 863 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,440 trading firm. So we've started about 6-7 years 864 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,800 ago now as a, as a group of traders, technologists that 865 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,760 we're just building out systems to trade across crypto markets. 866 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,840 At the time, really inefficient crypto markets and mostly C5 at 867 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,960 that point. Yes, we spent sort of the first 868 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,480 three years building out that tech stack and ended up becoming 869 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,520 one of the largest trading firms in the world when it comes to 870 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,240 the volumes that we put through markets, primarily at its 871 00:44:55,240 --> 00:44:56,760 genesis through centralized venues. 872 00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,960 But increasingly over the last few years, as D5 sort of started 873 00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:04,600 to reach that feature parity, feature parity area and, and 874 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,920 start to deliver on the ability of for us to be capitally 875 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,120 efficient and provide our liquidity on chain. 876 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:10,880 We've started to do that more and more. 877 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,040 And we were just talking about hyper liquid is a venue that 878 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:15,240 we're we're pretty familiar with. 879 00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:18,680 We've done, I believe, the largest amount of volume all 880 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,320 time on that, on that exchange itself on the leaderboard, which 881 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,880 people can take a look at. We trade on the venue. 882 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,160 There's a lot of activity there. And it's, it's one of the venues 883 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,480 that we use alongside some of our centralized and other 884 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,920 decentralized platforms. So my my role at the company is 885 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,120 on the commercial side of the business, So less on the trading 886 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:37,920 side of things. I sit with the head of trading 887 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:39,440 in Hong Kong and trading teams there. 888 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:45,000 My job is to work around how we can repurpose our ability to 889 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,760 understand markets, provide liquidity, which is sort of what 890 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,200 happens when we trade anyway in the size we do. 891 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,120 How do we do that for external partners? 892 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,560 So really working with token projects right from the early 893 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,240 stage, we venture invest at like pre seed and seed rounds, and 894 00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:01,560 then we start to work with the team to build relations ships as 895 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,640 they approach the need for a token. 896 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,600 And now as a token market maker, I shouldn't say this, but not 897 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,720 everyone needs a token. But for those that do, they 898 00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:14,000 start to look into like, how do I create the best like garden 899 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,280 for success? And when you're talking about 900 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,560 like pump fun and, and where can it go 4 billion higher or lower, 901 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,560 you're really discussing the granular metrics or things that 902 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,200 would go into like building that flywheel or setting up that 903 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,160 recipe for success. And that might be token buybacks 904 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,920 or it might be like best in class liquidity in the books. 905 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,960 When you work with like a firm like Oris, we're not directional 906 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,240 as such. So like the pumped up on going 907 00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:40,000 up or down view doesn't really matter to us. 908 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,400 What we're doing is acting as sort of volatility compressors. 909 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,200 We're providing bids and offers into the books at all times to 910 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,400 reduce that excessive volatility that can really make it hard for 911 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:55,280 people to hold early stage tokens in particular, everything 912 00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:00,080 right out the curve to to smaller FTV projects, 50 million 913 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,400 and around that region and then right up through to the multi 914 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,400 billions of dollars of launches. We're pretty comfortable doing 915 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,600 that stuff because we do it for ourselves just in in larger cap 916 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,200 tokens where there's like an economic reason to do so. 917 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,600 That's kind of a quick overview. I'm based in Hong Kong. 918 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:20,880 We have 133 people globally now. We just opened an office in New 919 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,720 York. Yeah, I think like that's fairly 920 00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:26,320 lean for sort of what we do in the space. 921 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,720 But yeah, we've got to just open an office in New York where 922 00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:32,120 we're going to have a bunch of venture guys, commercial facing 923 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,320 people, researchers. So primarily like a hub to make 924 00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,080 sure that we have more exposure to that market as as the 925 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,920 landscapes changed in the US And I'm happy to talk about it, our 926 00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,200 views on that as well. But yeah, sorry that was longer 927 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,480 than expected, but really excited to be here and and 928 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,640 thanks for having me on guys. No, this is sick. 929 00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:49,480 Well, 130 people. I was not aware of that. 930 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,880 That grew really fast. Question for you because you 931 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,840 said, you know, not everyone needs a token and that you help 932 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:56,040 a lot of these companies, though. 933 00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:58,280 However, and we talk about market makers a lot in the 934 00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,880 space. I feel like market makers have 935 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,880 grown to have this like more negative connotation now in the 936 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,080 space, right, Tyler Mando, when I think about the most because 937 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:11,080 of the meme coins in general, which is why the joke, right? 938 00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,760 Like winter mutants in regards or DWF, whatever. 939 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:15,880 But what's up, Mando? Yeah, I think it's a 940 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:17,120 misunderstanding of them. Like a. 941 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,600 Lot of these are. You are you Zora's delta neutral 942 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:21,640 for a large group of business, yeah. 943 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,160 That's the thing there's. There's a couple of things. 944 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,200 I think, like Mandy, you said, misunderstanding is probably the 945 00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:27,280 best way to put it. It's like. 946 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,200 People's. Crypto Twitter is fast. 947 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:33,760 It moves at 160 characters longer now, but like it has that 948 00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,520 like short attention span. So surface level is as deep as 949 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,880 they get and like people come to us and they go like market 950 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:43,040 making is this and they bundle 50 different activities into it 951 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,280 and they bundle up all market makers no matter how they 952 00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,000 operate or what they do. And it's all bad when I would 953 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,000 say even if you get out of crypto and look in traditional 954 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,320 markets, having a market maker there means that like people 955 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,120 don't pay brokerage on Robin Hood, for example, like and 956 00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:58,840 everyone likes that. I don't want to pay brokerage on 957 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,360 equity trades on Robin Hood, but I don't want Citadel to make 958 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,280 money off my flow. You can't have both things. 959 00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,200 They make money off your flow by providing you the very liquidity 960 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,120 with which you trade for free. So like my first question to 961 00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,240 anyone is like market making bad, let's get rid of them from 962 00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:16,960 the space is like, do you even understand how bad the spreads 963 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,240 and liquidity would get? You think what happened when 964 00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:21,520 Trump launched A token and everything got sucked out? 965 00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:23,480 You talk talk about that across the space. 966 00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,800 So I think like getting deeper into the understanding of what 967 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,280 differences are between what delta neutral market making. 968 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,680 Mando, you've obviously understand this already, but 969 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:35,920 what delta neutral market making is where we don't take 970 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:37,520 directional views on, on projects. 971 00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,080 We really are just providing bids and offers, being the buyer 972 00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,800 of last resort and the seller of last resort to make sure that 973 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,360 there's not that excessive volatility. 974 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:51,280 Well, I think, I think what people see is they see X sold to 975 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,120 win to me or X sold to this market. 976 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:54,120 Yeah. Exactly. 977 00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:58,960 They think that that, that that market maker is being 978 00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,520 directional. Often like this is just a broad 979 00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,440 brush, but like often when the market maker has a 980 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:10,760 disproportionate amount of the supply, it's been sold to them 981 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:16,280 by the team or insiders and they have been hedged it with a, with 982 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,080 a perp or some other way of maybe a broader hedge across the 983 00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,000 market. And I think often what they look 984 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,920 at then it's like, Oh my God, like ex market maker has this 985 00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:26,760 much of A coin and it's gone down. 986 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,280 And actually what they should have seen that as is insiders 987 00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:34,280 sold to a market maker at a price who then hedged themselves 988 00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:38,400 with some sort of. What what this goes back to my 989 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,080 point. You've, you've like group games. 990 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,120 What the transaction you're saw you're talking about, that's 991 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,920 like an OTC transaction to sell the tokens. 992 00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,720 We actually, when we're working with a project, we get loaned 993 00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:50,720 the tokens. So the transaction you see of 994 00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:53,720 tokens arriving in our wallet is a returnable loan. 995 00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,000 It's not a, it's not a grant, it's not a purchase. 996 00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:58,840 We don't actually send the money at the time. 997 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,920 What we sign up to do, and this is what we did when we got into 998 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,280 the space was we guarantee that we'll provide the liquidity 999 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,040 without those tokens you've loaned us for the period of 1000 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,720 12/18/24 months, whatever the mandate's for. 1001 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,520 And then we have a, we have an option over the top to buy those 1002 00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,560 tokens off the project at a price premium that's at the end 1003 00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,040 of the mandate. That's like if I fail halfway 1004 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:25,640 through, like Oris, I think pioneered in the space, this 1005 00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,720 thing sounds crazy, but like contractual obligations, like 1006 00:51:29,720 --> 00:51:31,880 saying what you're going to do, put it in a contract and then if 1007 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,840 you breach it, the contracts ended and you get punished for 1008 00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,520 it, which sounds insane to people from the real world where 1009 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,360 that's how it works everywhere. But in crypto, a lot of the time 1010 00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,960 it was like give a bunch of the supply, to your point, a lot of 1011 00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,120 the supply to a market maker and hope they're going to do the 1012 00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,240 right thing. I'm not of the belief that any 1013 00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:50,920 project should hope that we do the right thing. 1014 00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:54,760 They should understand our incentives, construct deals 1015 00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,840 that, you know, the structures that we use that make us do the 1016 00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,000 job. If you don't get best in class 1017 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,360 liquidity from Auris for the whole entire term of the 1018 00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,160 mandate, we don't get paid. It's that simple. 1019 00:52:05,240 --> 00:52:06,960 And that's how that's how it should be. 1020 00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,320 And we, we sort of stand by that and, and we, we like to raise 1021 00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,520 the bar, but that makes it hard for competitors, right? 1022 00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,840 Because if they can't do technologically what we can do 1023 00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,840 when it comes to trading, it's very expensive, very quick, but 1024 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:21,440 that's kind of where we see our Moat. 1025 00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:23,680 We commit to doing what we say we're going to do. 1026 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:25,520 We put it in the contract, we guarantee it. 1027 00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,600 And if we don't do it, there's economic punishment for us, and 1028 00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:30,880 then we put up bigger numbers than other people that make it 1029 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,880 hard for others to keep up how we approach the space. 1030 00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,440 But the. Reason why you're like #1 trader 1031 00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,640 on Hyper Liquid is because you do a lot of this hedging sort of 1032 00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,640 stuff, which is like what people can do, right? 1033 00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:44,600 We've seen that with Athena or we even spoke about the other 1034 00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,080 day for when we had the show, We had this conversation on the 1035 00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,400 exact show. And I said to you, instead of 1036 00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:53,920 selling farcorn, you could right now just short it on Hyper 1037 00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,440 Liquid. And that was the training like 1038 00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,480 1.41 point 5. And I said like you could just 1039 00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:02,160 sit there and earn a yield for the rest of the year, right, 1040 00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,040 risk free. And then you didn't. 1041 00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:07,560 And then? Why? 1042 00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:08,640 Because I don't know this shit. I'm. 1043 00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,480 Sorry, I'm not going. To start market making my fart 1044 00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,360 coin position, you know I'm going to hold it. 1045 00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:20,640 You know, I'm going to be down a lot like I'm right now from the 1046 00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:24,160 top, and then I'm just going to hold it longer, yeah, and hope 1047 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,480 that it goes back up. Just to critically like we, 1048 00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,560 we're not the, we're not the number one trader of the hyper 1049 00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,480 liquid token, though we do trade a lot of it. 1050 00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:34,560 You're the number one volume. On Hyper Liquid. 1051 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,160 On like as in. Across. 1052 00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:38,800 The volume, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1053 00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,920 How much volume have you guys done on hyper Liquid if you 1054 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:42,440 don't mind me asking? Because you brought it up. 1055 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:43,880 I knew that, but you brought it up like. 1056 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:48,080 I think it's last I I looked at a few days ago or something with 1057 00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:52,440 135 billion I think. You guys, you guys have done 1058 00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,000 $135 billion volume on Hyper Liquid. 1059 00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,280 Just hyper liquid, yeah. That's just hyper. 1060 00:53:58,280 --> 00:53:59,640 Liquid. Yeah, you can see it on the the 1061 00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:01,400 leaderboard. Yeah, 137. 1062 00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:03,000 Billion. Yeah, $2 billion. 1063 00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,480 Since, you know, a mere 2. Let me ask you something Jason 1064 00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:09,360 quick, just for the sake of what can you share like how much 1065 00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,200 volume do you do you guys do in crypto in general, like on a 1066 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:13,960 day-to-day basis weekly or monthly? 1067 00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,040 Because you said just hyper, but I'm sure you do crypto com 1068 00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:20,080 Binance. Yeah, it fluctuates like 1069 00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:22,720 obviously like peak trading days when the markets are super busy 1070 00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:24,920 and people need to trade and there's lots of activity going 1071 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:25,680 on. We'll do a lot. 1072 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:29,600 I think peak trading day earlier this year was in excess of 10 1073 00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:34,320 billion on centralized exchanges and two 2 1/2 on chain I believe 1074 00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:37,640 that day. So it's sort of like if large 1075 00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:39,520 numbers on a single day, but that's not consistent. 1076 00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,480 Like I think a better metric of it is sort of around 2 to 3% of 1077 00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,040 global crypto volume we're transacting. 1078 00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:47,720 So I mean it goes back to 130 people. 1079 00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:50,720 I mean, that sounds like a few, but they've got a couple of 1080 00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:56,720 things to do, but I think like really digging into the details 1081 00:54:56,720 --> 00:54:59,760 on like what Mark Magus actually do is, is super important. 1082 00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:01,560 I'm happy to answer any questions you guys have about it 1083 00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,960 or or happy to, well what. Do you like listen to, because I 1084 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,120 feel like you can you, I feel like you kind of went there 1085 00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,000 like, you know, how, like what do you do and stuff? 1086 00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,920 And then what's this misunderstanding that like 1087 00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,640 degens have or underestimation that they have about trading 1088 00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:17,760 firms that silently operate like in the background like yours. 1089 00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,640 But like, if you were to like, explain in layman's terms 1090 00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,160 exactly what you do and how you make your money on the $135 1091 00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:29,040 billion sale hyper liquid. The the trading activity itself 1092 00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:30,320 matters Spot on. Like we. 1093 00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:32,280 Run a lot. Of delta neutral strategies like 1094 00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,560 where you're you're looking at funding arbitragers and you're 1095 00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:35,960 looking at statistical arbitragers. 1096 00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,120 We have some corn strategies that run in the medium frequency 1097 00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:39,960 space. We can see a high frequency 1098 00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,000 trading firm. So we're looking at all the 1099 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,720 venues we're trading at, working out where we think our 1100 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,560 theoretical cheap and expensive point is putting up bids and 1101 00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,440 offers through the market and making markets. 1102 00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:50,520 That's where the name comes from. 1103 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,680 And and by doing that, we provide liquidity people. 1104 00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,680 So if you want to go buy a whole bunch of Bitcoin on one of the 1105 00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,360 venues where we trade, which is the major venue where you would 1106 00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:03,360 want to buy any size, you'd end up inevitably trading against 1107 00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:04,600 us. So we're not unhappy to be a 1108 00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,440 seller of Bitcoin there because we've got some other position on 1109 00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:11,160 or a hedge against it elsewhere. And we're earning on, like 1110 00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,080 Maddow said, in a very simplistic manner, we're earning 1111 00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,480 in other ways. We have strategies that on a 1112 00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,640 long enough time scale in a delta neutral fashion, we'll 1113 00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:23,680 continue to to add profit and and revenue to the business and 1114 00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,920 the benefit to everyone. I kind of think like people say 1115 00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:28,880 this sort of cheesy stuff all the time, but like liquidity 1116 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:30,600 ends up being like the lifeblood of the market. 1117 00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:35,840 We don't trade that way on hype, on finance, on Coinbase. 1118 00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,640 We just don't trade the way we trade in that size. 1119 00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:40,560 Everyone's cost of transaction goes up. 1120 00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,480 You don't have to. You have to start thinking like, 1121 00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:45,280 cool, what am I actually buying in for? 1122 00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:50,240 How do I execute it, you know, paying fees on every transaction 1123 00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:51,800 I do. Or is it like moving wallet 1124 00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,480 money around liquidity on bridges, all that sort of stuff 1125 00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,480 that's all underpinned by liquidity. 1126 00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:02,760 And I think people get away from the concept of likely market 1127 00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,440 makers bad don't care if they're in liquidity. 1128 00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,080 If they really dug into like what would happen it, it's not 1129 00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,680 going to be great. It goes back to like the heyday 1130 00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:13,800 of, you know, some of the early exchanges where there was just 1131 00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:15,960 no liquidity in the transaction fees people were paying. 1132 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,880 Now all of that gets dwarfed if Bitcoin does 1000 X again or 1133 00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,160 10,000 X again, wherever you bought in. 1134 00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:25,160 But ultimately, as the market matures and gets more efficient, 1135 00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:29,680 it needs to be liquid. And another benefit that we 1136 00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,800 provide is just because of economic incentive, not because 1137 00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,000 we're like altruistic and helping the space necessarily, 1138 00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:38,600 but we arbitrage prices back in the line. 1139 00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:41,560 So it means if you're trading on a DEX or you're trading on a sex 1140 00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:46,080 or you're trading on some sort of hybrid version of that, the 1141 00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,480 price should be the same, right? It shouldn't be a bad experience 1142 00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,920 to be AUS user and stuck on Kraken or or Coinbase. 1143 00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,040 You should be able to buy the token for the same price as 1144 00:57:54,040 --> 00:58:02,600 everyone else. 100% some people, some people, some people loving 1145 00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,240 what you're saying. Jason, quickly your your Twitter 1146 00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:08,920 account is Oxj Adkins, right? Yeah, that's made personally. 1147 00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,040 And then Oris, I think is Oris under score? 1148 00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:12,880 Global. Just for people who want to 1149 00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,800 follow, it's Oris Global. Jason, you didn't put a banner. 1150 00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:20,080 I told you, you put a banner on your Twitter like a month ago. 1151 00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:23,080 God damn it. So I got to clean all that up. 1152 00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:26,160 It's a it's a dark space I'm going to fix up so. 1153 00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:29,120 You're like one of the biggest chats and smartest individuals I 1154 00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:30,840 know in crypto. And then I look at your Twitter 1155 00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,280 page and I'm like, it's the opposite of it, you know? 1156 00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:35,800 Yeah, come on here. It's so well spoken. 1157 00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:38,640 People are loving. You more comments are good 1158 00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,560 there's. 2000 people watching. On. 1159 00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,720 Video everybody's like yo, who is Jason You know I'm so I'm 1160 00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:50,000 sharing his thing you know OX Jackins, chief commercial 1161 00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,960 officer at oros he's based in Hong Kong check him out he's the 1162 00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,840 guy with 142 followers or he should probably add 2 zeros to 1163 00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:59,920 that based on his his his his input and what he knows but 1164 00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:01,480 anyways, Tyler, I think you got to. 1165 00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:03,680 I got a couple questions, one quick one. 1166 00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,480 So do you ever take directional bets on on tokens? 1167 00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,480 Yeah. So we like when you say 1168 00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,160 directional, our strategy is broadly delta neutral. 1169 00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,480 But what we're looking at is like different skews and 1170 00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,040 parameters around the market. It wouldn't be like outright 1171 00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,840 like we're going like leverage long certain things in 1172 00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:24,360 aggressive size. We do have discretionary parts 1173 00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,360 of the business like our ventures book is outright long 1174 00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:29,240 projects, right. We're investing at a very early 1175 00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,000 stage. So yes, we have directional 1176 00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:34,560 positions in the firm and we have traders of varying 1177 00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:37,840 experiences across like really high frequency, delta neutral 1178 00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,760 stuff right into like medium frequency where those sorts of 1179 00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:43,880 like judgment calls start to start to play into it as well. 1180 00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:46,880 But it's not really our edge. Like there are plenty of like 1181 00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:51,000 big betting hedge funds out there that that take huge 1182 00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:52,960 directional bets. But yeah, most of the time we're 1183 00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,880 trying to maintain delta neutrality so that we can 1184 00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,800 continue to expand across the space and and provide liquidity 1185 00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,960 in bull and bear markets. Not good for everyone. 1186 01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,680 If like we're like ultra long everything and then their market 1187 01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,000 hits and we're like we've just lost all our money and now we 1188 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:10,080 can't provide liquidity and it's even worse for everybody. 1189 01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:13,080 So it's kind of a good thing to be neutral. 1190 01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:18,440 And perhaps the last one, I imagine you have to have some 1191 01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:22,280 kind of a broad market outlook near term, mid term, longer 1192 01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,880 term, you know as you're managing these positions and 1193 01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:27,560 overall training strategy. I think there's a lot, there's 1194 01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:30,640 growing concern out there right now of a double top of top 1195 01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:35,680 sides, Trump going deeper into crypto pump fund token launch, 1196 01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,320 like people are kind of adding to the list. 1197 01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,720 But at the same time, we've got like this global liquidity 1198 01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:44,480 influx focus on growth. I'm curious, what's your broad 1199 01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:46,720 outlook on the crypto market right now, if you think we're 1200 01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:48,600 we're in for a top or more room to go? 1201 01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:52,840 Yeah, look, I, I probably just my background's macro, so it's 1202 01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:54,200 kind of like a zoomed out approach. 1203 01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:57,600 So I'll probably get away from like his one O 5 region. 1204 01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:00,440 The the sort of topic for this for this round. 1205 01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,200 And then we pull back. What I will say is the dips are 1206 01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:05,160 going to be shallower and shallower and shallower. 1207 01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:08,200 I think like the ATF news last year was this like buy the 1208 01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:10,280 rumours sell the fact. That's not a reflection of the 1209 01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:12,280 fact that it's not good news. It's a reflection of the fact 1210 01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,040 that crypto Twitter has the attention span of of a six year 1211 01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,240 old. So ultimately, if you think 1212 01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:21,280 about who can now buy exposure that forces more buying and 1213 01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:24,280 Bitcoin, Ethereum, and and by proxy the rest of the space as 1214 01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:26,960 it expands, it's guys that move slow. 1215 01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,560 It's guys that do quarterly investment reviews or yearly 1216 01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:31,720 investment reviews. And they have mandates like I 1217 01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:34,080 can't buy an ETF until it's been around for two years. 1218 01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:37,480 That constant pulse will sit under the market at all times. 1219 01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:43,440 So like, am I bullish at 105110 in the short term, I guess is as 1220 01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,400 good as yours? Am I bullish on the fact that 1221 01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:51,280 this space is now inevitable and that we found product market fit 1222 01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:53,720 and now we've found institutional investment fit? 1223 01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:57,600 Yes, and that will mean dips will be shallower than they have 1224 01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:02,600 been previously, less painful even this this bear market pull 1225 01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:05,600 back that, you know, we're going back to 75 K and Bitcoin didn't 1226 01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:08,960 really feel that bad. Like a lot of money has been 1227 01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,400 extracted from the space because of things like pumped up fun and 1228 01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:13,440 things like that and and a lot of the bad things that have 1229 01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:16,560 happened in this cycle. But ultimately it didn't really 1230 01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:19,120 feel anywhere near as bad as what happened with FTX and the 1231 01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:20,800 last real bear cycle that we had. 1232 01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:23,960 So to answer your question directly, like I am bullish on 1233 01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:27,160 the space after hearing Joe yesterday, I'm super bullish on 1234 01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:30,680 my very light Ethereum bags. But it's I think there's a lot 1235 01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:34,200 of exciting stuff coming up for firms like us that are very 1236 01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:38,320 finance D5 focused to see like the potential for what Joe was 1237 01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,360 talking about, which is like AD 5 resurgence on Ethereum because 1238 01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:45,320 you've got really interesting features coming to the chain 1239 01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:48,520 that will speed it up, make it feature parity with the fact 1240 01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:50,640 that we're going to be able to trade on places like mega Earth, 1241 01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,320 for example, that's going to be designed around being super fast 1242 01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:56,480 for firms like us. It suddenly makes our strategies 1243 01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:59,400 deployable on chain versus previously we only had off 1244 01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,480 chain. So I'm bullish on the overall 1245 01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,040 like innovation that's coming into the space. 1246 01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,680 I'm bullish on the institutional demand that will sit as a pulse 1247 01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:10,800 constantly below the market, not to mention all these bitcoins, 1248 01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:14,480 Solana, Ethereum strategies that are adding more demand again and 1249 01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:16,520 again. And then I'm, I'm kind of 1250 01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:20,880 bullish on the fact that we have trended from pretty much no on 1251 01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,400 chain activity when I joined the firm a little under four years 1252 01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:26,600 ago. So like 10 to 15% of our firm is 1253 01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:28,720 now trading on chain. Like do I see that trend 1254 01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:29,960 continuing? Absolutely. 1255 01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:33,600 What will make that happen? Feature parity, more things that 1256 01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:37,480 we can do on chain and then more users on chain, which I think if 1257 01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:39,720 pump funds raising a billion dollars, they're not doing it. 1258 01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,440 It's either they're doing it to to raise a billion dollars 1259 01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:45,280 because the valuation or they're doing it because they've got 1260 01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:48,240 something in mind that they want to do build on the platform and 1261 01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:51,040 the brand that they built. So I'm I'm excited to see what 1262 01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:54,640 that brings. I'm with you your thoughts. 1263 01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:57,640 Appreciate that. Some really good thoughts, 1264 01:03:57,640 --> 01:03:58,360 Jason. All right. 1265 01:03:58,360 --> 01:03:59,920 Any final things you want to show that they weren't over 1266 01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:03,960 time, but that was really, really, really insightful. 1267 01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:07,560 Jason, any last things you want to share call out here on the OR 1268 01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:11,520 side or we need to have. Yeah, I'm happy to like guys, 1269 01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:13,960 long time listener, first time caller, but like I'm happy to 1270 01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:17,320 dial in anytime you guys want to chat markets or there's big 1271 01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:20,200 launch coming up and you want to understand like at a launch of 1272 01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:22,880 work or like what does it mean to like get a listing on an 1273 01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:24,240 exchange? We can bring people on the 1274 01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,040 experts in that. We have a pretty good group of 1275 01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,400 people across the firm that have been doing this for a long time. 1276 01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:31,920 So understanding market microstructure, liquidity, 1277 01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:35,440 supply, demand, how to launch a token, how to work with 1278 01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:39,040 exchanges, all of those little things that like a founder who's 1279 01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,880 a genius building pump dot fund doesn't need to think about as 1280 01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:43,720 much until they're launching A token. 1281 01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:47,720 Happy to hop on with you guys and chat it through. 1282 01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:51,360 I mean, I'm think if I can speak to your listeners and have a 1283 01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:55,080 bunch of people that like go a little further than surface 1284 01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:58,880 level market maker bad. I think that maybe I've added a 1285 01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:02,240 little bit to to the space and hopefully we can have easier 1286 01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:04,880 conversations with people that are looking for like true help 1287 01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:06,440 to have a successful token launch. 1288 01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:08,680 And and that's where we want to fit and, and what we're trying 1289 01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:11,040 to do for the space. So yeah, more than happy to guys 1290 01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:13,200 and and thank you very much for having me and and letting me 1291 01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:15,440 have a having the mic for a few minutes. 1292 01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:16,840 Well, appreciate it, Jason.