Look at that. Look at that.
You've got your own theme song. I didn't even know that was
gonna happen. That just happened with our
producer. J6 clearly came in, was
listening to the show yesterday. He owes us a few favors given.
He won a few prizes on rec radio and now has decided to put you
guys in. So you're now official team
members, it seems like. How do you feel for one more day
then I'm firing? You back.
That wasn't. I'm just happy that Cows finally
like, has a name. Because like, he was just done
dirty this whole week. No one.
I've been carrying the show and I was lost off the titles I
scheduled in faces on Tuesday and then so we already had.
And then I couldn't find the many ways I was like, right,
this is easy this way. But today I was like, right,
that's it. Cows gets an official mention.
It also looks like Farooq is not gonna be here next week.
He is gonna be in Singapore time.
He let us know I was potentially gonna go out there.
I'm not. So it looks like it's me and OSF
and who knows? Who knows how they show?
It there is a spot up for grabs, like one of you will make it.
That's all I'm gonna say. That's no, look, Cows is already
saying that he carried and he's the new Farok, so I don't know,
but that's crazy. So Farok is just like, no, he
had his birthday and he's just, he's just off, isn't he?
I mean, this is a lot guys in my opinion.
The funny thing is is, well, I I took a week off in August and
the whole show stopped during that week.
They both decided that they weren't going to do the show and
then the week, the week that they take weeks off, I have to
continue. To do this show, well, they
didn't take it off. Hold on, hold on, hold on.
We actually ran for a grant a whole event in Toronto that
week. So a whole event.
So that was a crazy week. But I mean.
I mean I, I, I gotta admit this it's like it's you guys are
definitely you know put it in the work.
I mean it's it's like every day you have like the fresh hot news
and then you're just delivering it.
I mean that's it's not easy. It's not easy exactly.
I appreciate that. Thank you.
Appreciate. That you go in this room by
Friday. Like first Monday everybody was
like la, la, la, and now Friday everybody's just like, Oh yeah,
I'm carrying this on my back, buttering me up so she can come
on next week. That's how it is.
Clearly, when I said it's gonna be one of you 2, now she's
throwing the compliments. You do a great job, like showing
up during the bear market. Callie's not playing the game
clearly, of course. Right.
Well, we are sponsored again today by cracking NFT.
We obviously had the on Wednesday.
Great guys. Interesting to see how they're
building it alongside a bunch of different communities.
Be sure to check out their webpage, It's kraken.com for
Rugradio to see some of the stuff that we've got coming up.
So they're gonna be partnering with a bunch of different
creators across rug radio for the next month.
We are super happy to have them alongside us.
And yeah, we might as well get straight into it.
Cuz again crypto rallied and then just went straight back
down to where it was. It felt like we were on for a
bit of a positive day for once. Maybe we'd break out of this
range and that doesn't seem to have happened, which is a little
bit sad. But in terms of the topics to
get into, the first one I thought we'd mentioned was the
news about the CFTC seemingly coming off the D5.
I don't know if you guys saw this news, but we've all been
worried about the SEC for a long time.
Obviously they've had some pretty big fights against key
members of the crypto community. It now looks like the CFTC,
which is the main exchange for derivatives and futures stuff
that we were talking about before is now coming after a
number of different D5 protocols for trading.
Some of these seemingly to US investors.
And this, this puts into the cross, has a bunch of different
decentralized public changes that we we see in the space.
DYDXI think it was one of the big ones, but it's just another.
They seem to be less aggressive I would say.
I saw another headline saying that they were going to, they
were going to start like a conversation with different
people about how to become more compliant.
But it's oh, that was today. Just bring up many minutes
again, maybe it's through today, but yeah, it's not a great
situation. I think to have another
regulatory board in the US coming after them.
So pop twist, the CFTC could be a bigger enemy to D5 than the
SEC. CFTC claims that OX Open and
Direct X will offer legal digital asset derivatives
trading and they have kind of come out of them.
These are, to be clear, these are all US based companies and
obviously the CFTC only accounts for US based companies.
So a lot of decentralized protocols are not based in the
US or a lot of D5 in general. It's not based in the US, It's
actually doesn't really have a domicile.
But yeah, interesting to see and I think a lot of D5 people were
pretty worried that this could be the next leg of like the
government basically getting involved in FIFA.
What do you think has? I didn't read the whole thing.
I read bits of it. It felt like they were focused
on people who are offering derivatives based on like, not
necessarily on crypto assets, right?
Like on a lot of these companies you can you can trade like like
synthetic equity derivatives. I think it felt like that was
what they were focusing on. I'm not sure, no.
I think it's for everything I think.
I think it is also for for crypto, but because it because
for them if it's a derivative of a commodity, it doesn't really
matter, right? They fine.
It's also under their remit. So I think I think.
If that's the case, coming after everything, yeah.
If that's the case, then all of these companies will just leave
the US and it will push everything offshore, which is
kind of what we saw with FDX as well, right?
At least this feels like there's some a bit more clarity here
rather than the SEC. The SEC is just like you've
broken the rules, We don't know what the rules are.
Whereas the CFC, I think is more about that These guys are
unregistered rather than like they're necessarily enemies of
the state, but we don't know in what way.
I think I feel less concerned about it because it's more
what's the right word. It's more defined what they're
trying to do right. I would agree they seem less
aggressive than the SECI think like you said, they're only
coming after US based domiciled exchanges at this stage, which
is a good, much better scenario than than the SEC, which
seemingly just came after every token that was issued,
admittedly by US exchanges. But still, yeah, I agree with
what your take was, which is that this probably just moves
everything offshore. There was another tweet actually
which came out yesterday by Alex Sebetnik who is the CEO of
Nansen I believe. Yes, CEO of Nansen came out with
the top ten countries for crypto adoption, Singapore she came #1,
Switzerland #2UA E #3, Hong Kong #4 and US #5.
It does feel like those those four there are going to be far
ahead of the US as as the years come up and it looks like, I
don't know if you're if you're a in crypto right now.
Do you do you ever really want to domicile in the US?
This feels like just it's gonna get caught doing something
wrong. Yeah, downside big upside bad,
upside small. I think it's interesting.
I saw this post as well, but it didn't.
It didn't. I don't go into detail about
what the. At first I thought it was like
percentage of people using crypto, but it kind of is just a
random index, right? I think, I think I didn't delve
into it that much deeper. I just kind of took it at face
value. But yeah yeah, kind of made
sense to me. Switzerland has a bunch.
I mean I think the Ethereum Foundation is based in
Switzerland alongside a number of different crypto firms.
Singapore, Singapore recently actually looks like it could
could not. They hired, sorry no not hired.
They elected a non friendly, non crypto friendly president in the
last week and they've brought in some pretty strong regulation
against stablecoins or at least that would make making
stablecoins pretty difficult. Obviously there is some context
there that will happen with Lunar and all that sort of
stuff, but it is maybe looking less friendly whereas the UAE to
me, I mean you're there Mika. It feels as though everyone from
crypto is moving there. Yeah, I mean, it just makes
sense. Why, why wanna, you know, if
you're working in Web Three, why I feel like kind of like, I
don't know, like a criminal. I feel like in North America you
just feel like I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing
when at the end of the day this, all of these tools and
technology is the next phase of the Internet.
So it feels good in the UAE knowing that the government
supports you. There are people that see this.
As it is, which is an opportunity.
So yeah, definitely makes sense why people are are going there,
why I went there for example, right.
Like you just it's so weird about about this industry which
is just a tech industry that people feel like they're
criminals just for like being part of it.
There is some obviously some criminal behavior going on, but
as there isn't many, many. Different, yeah.
But it's like that. It's like that everywhere.
It's so it's so really, you know, it's silly.
It's a little. There's obviously things it's
not. It's not silly.
There's things that are. To be under covered like to
uncover. So you know that's what we do I
guess on the show when we're talking about these things.
I think we go deeper into like what's really going on and then
you you hear about all the World News and then you're like, this
makes sense why this is like this so?
I think education is key, which is why I'm taking my notes from
the Mando minutes. Meet the minutes.
My God. So that's the aim.
We're trying to peel back the layers of what the fuck's going
on here. But yeah, I thought that was an
interesting headline. People pointed to that as one of
the reasons why we didn't continue the rally.
Like people were saying that this is bad for D5.
Any D5 protocols that have operations in the US could get
could get attacked. This does involve in particular
the like derivative exchanges which have been pretty big
recently, things like dydx, GMX, but but this could extend into
other things. It does feel like, yeah, I don't
want to be labeled a criminal. I do not want to be based in the
US for most of that reasons. I think the other side of this
is that you can see the Crowdfire guys being going to
the ACFCC being like, look, if we're not going to compete with
a bunch of unregulated guys, like they need to, everyone
needs to be playing by the same rules.
If they're going to come in and stop offering derivatives in a
big way, I if I was them, I'd be going to the regulator being
like, look, we play by the rules, these guys should as
well. That's what it felt like to me.
Yeah, right. The second thing I think we we,
we would go into is Solana. A lot of people have Solana bags
in the space, obviously Solana big NFT ecosystem.
Interestingly the Solana ecosystem is moving, has been
moving more toward Open AI and this is God, this keeps going
more towards a Solana phone. Recently, I know you guys have
seen this, but they brought out a phone which is meant to to
kind of prioritize security firstly, and Marcus Marcus Brown
Brownlee, who's like a very famous tech reviewer.
Wow, 17.4 million subscribers did a review of the Salon phone.
I won't go into like what's put on the background, you can come
and see, but basically just said it was terrible.
I don't think you've listed the whole thing, but it was.
He just said that the, like, the operating system wasn't great.
The only, the only interesting thing thought was about the
cable that they used to connect it, some sort of special cable
that stops some form of phone jacking that could take place if
you charge your phone in public places.
But I didn't think it looked that bad to me.
I don't understand why his reaction was so progressive, but
he does. I mean, you watched his
interviews quite a lot, like you watched his stuff quite a lot
that you got it. Like he does go into Usha of why
something is better than another thing and he has a really
detailed knowledge of all the different products in the
market. So I look at this and think
that's quite a cool phone. Like, I don't know, looks like.
You're not a tech guy. You're not.
You have no understanding or interest in tech I think does
not consumer products. Tech consumer products to this
level, right This is. The thing is, I think his point
is that it's like too expensive for what it is.
It's like a basic, a very very basic.
Android phone which should cost like 200 bucks but it costs like
it did cost 1000 and now it costs 600.
And then the only crypto things about it are like the seed vault
where you can store yourself on a seed phase adapt store which I
think a lot of other phones are trying to integrate and then
some other thing where it's like I couldn't get it.
Also, I just don't know why people are releasing but like
Samsung and Apple are going to dominate you whatever you do
right? Like is a phone.
There was a time when in the in last year when was like booming
and everyone was so high, people were saying the next iteration
of this is hardware. And that's I think why the team
started working on this. And then and then nobody's left
apart from us three and a couple of people in the chat and now
there's a phone. I mean it's such a niche appeal,
Solana as well and you could only use it with Solana.
So you can't bridge to east or anything and the push back on
that is that it's clear that the App Store run by Apple is not
going to be that crypto friendly.
It's going to put 30% charges on every single app purchase or
transaction that happens. Which is why even with things
like friend tech for example, and various different, they're
doing like these, they're not doing App Store apps, they're
doing like direct to your home screen, start apps, right.
So they bypass all that App Store stuff and they feel as
though that's a big thing. Like mobile is a huge, huge
thing for adoption. And if the App Store is not
going to be there doing it, Solana wants to do its own
version of an App Store. Meta Mask I think, came out this
week and said they were going to do their own version of an App
Store as well, Multichain, including Solana.
So maybe we see something like you open up your meta mask app
on your phone and that has its own App Store.
But I still think Apple would comfort, like I still think
Apple's going to get in the way of that sort of stuff.
So I, I don't know there's been other people that have
considered doing a phone. I think I think a lot of people
thought Ledger would come out of the phone.
They they they released, they're big in hardware, right?
They they've got that stacked product coming out.
There's been talk about them doing phone for a long, long
time. I on boarding is so tough.
It's so tough. It's so cumbersome and if
Apple's going to make it even more difficult and maybe we do
need some hardware, but I agree it's not the market to release
it. No one wants this right now.
What do you think? I think that the hardware that
is going to progress this industry is actually the Apple's
Reality Pro, like the XR headset, because that's going to
make all of these digital collectibles and art pretty much
like, relevant. Like why look at your Open C
collection on, you know, your Apple MacBook?
Like that's the hardware. Why not use the XR headset and
then see it all around you like come to life, You know so.
I think that that's going to be the hardware that's going to
change the game. But what's interesting is that
you are right that the app, Apple App Store at the end of
the day, like it's not so quote UN quote Web 3 friendly.
So maybe that's like the real purpose of a phone.
And if you want those, you know that the the Web 3 apps, then
you might just need the salon on the phone.
But I actually saw this video and I was like, I don't want to
play it because I just don't want bad news.
But I'm going to watch it later. Yeah.
I don't think Solana really cared about it.
I think the price of Solana seemingly is like unchanged
since it came out. And I don't think people had
high hopes for this phone beforehand.
They cut the price recently and everyone was like, none of these
are selling. It's pretty obvious.
So I don't think people were like waiting on bated breath
this to be a massive success for people.
So it is what it is. I don't think the Solana phone
is going to be like a game changer.
I this is the first time I've met heard it really mentioned on
the timeline for a while like let's say weeks so it doesn't
feel. Months.
Maybe even it was NSCMSC when people were talking about it.
Was that right? Yeah.
But it got some air time when they cut the price.
But then again, I think that again, it didn't make it feel as
though it's going really well. So I think, I think people are
probably going to sunset that eventually and also this was
this was made with had a huge budget right.
FTX is still going that's when they just like do all this stuff
and I just don't feel like this is going to continue to get
continue to get funding. But you know we'll see Hopefully
Salon does come back strong talking about apps that are
doing well. I don't know if you saw it today
but friend tech again is going it's going pretty nuts.
I only know this because I actually do use this site.
What's your, what's your P&L so far?
Give us some trading insights. I don't really trade this year
about like having a an account. I feel like which people would
buy shares in is that like I don't really want to be buying
selling shares in my in friends and all I ever see on the
timeline is like people get absolutely destroyed for.
Oh, I have. I sold Laura Wolf for like $100.
It was great. It was it was awesome.
Yeah. No, sell your friend.
No joke. I mean, I did just for fun cuz
like, why not, You know, I just wanted to test it out.
But I definitely did sell my friends.
It was very funny. I've kicked people out of group
chat. No, I'm joking.
But I think the only issue with me with Friend Tech is that I
wanted to see what it was like, like the process of, you know,
pulling out money, putting in money, putting in money wasn't
an issue, is actually pretty quick.
But taking out your money from Friend Tech, it's like, I still,
I think it takes like the way that I did it with base and
everything, like bridging. I don't know, it said seven days
or something and I still haven't seen it.
So let's see. Oh yeah, I must.
That's not a friend. Yeah, that's just A roll up.
I think, yeah, that's just made the the bridge or something with
with base, yeah, quicker bridges.
Yeah, I just wish they would have told me that.
It's going to take that long before using that because
obviously I could have used a different bridge.
So beware. Beware the optimistic roll up
the name. Why it's called optimistic is
because they are kind of essentially hoping that the
transactions are right, but then they have this like 7 day period
where they can double check and that's the reason why it takes
seven days for you to get your money out.
So if you did something bad on the chain, they have the seven
days because they were optimistic of the star that they
were right. That's basically where I guess
that came from. So optimistic always means seven
days out. They there was talk about them
maybe reducing it to like if it was even to increasing it if one
of the two. But that there will always be
some sort of time delay when you try and get your money out of an
optic rollup unless you do like one of the the other bridges
which makes it a slightly quicker process but sometimes a
little bit more costly. But yeah, it does feel like that
that app is it's no longer only fans account, it does feel like
it does feel mainly crypto people trying to farm this
AirDrop. But it is still doing a crazy
amount of. I mean the top accounts are
worth like 5 E now. Like what's really happened is
people are buying the top accounts because they think
that's gonna be the main way to get the AirDrop.
So it's got a very exponential curve.
Like the top ones are really, really high now, but.
I got scared because I was like on the top trending page like
when they made like that trending page and my PFP was
with like. Just a different industry, you
know, And I I got a little worried because then I was like,
Oh no, I don't really like for, you know, my brand and stuff.
I don't want to be associated with like certain things.
And then I saw I was on this like trending list and then I
didn't want people to think like, oh, I was doing.
You know what they were doing. I don't know what any of this
means, but it sounds. You don't.
I'm being cryptic, yeah. I'm on Fensack, but I don't know
what Mika. You don't know what I'm talking
about, OK? I don't know.
I'm just like or like bought some sort of trending thing like
you can buy trending things. I've seen that's what you're
saying. There was just, I think
everybody at the same time who was doing only fans like joined
Friend Tech and then my PFP got caught in that.
You know, genre of trending And then like some, like really
popular like Twitter, the X person, like posted and then
everyone was like, wait, you know Mika has this or like
what's going on? And I'm just like, no.
So then I got like, I'm like, hey, I don't want to be, I don't
want to be like, I'm just scared because I don't want people to
think like to get the wrong idea.
So I kind of, like stopped like using it too much.
And also there's so much controversy because it's like.
You know, first I was excited because you have to use new tech
in the Web 3 space. Like, no matter what you're
doing, you need to try out new apps, new products, or else
you're just kind of you're lost. You're you're, you know, years
behind. So I tried it right away, like
the first day and then saw Kobe using it.
Everybody like in the industry who you know, I would like.
Watch. And now it's kind of just like.
I don't know, is it? Is it OK to use it?
Mando, you're using it like so that's bad.
That's my history of this sort of stuff, right?
There's clearly been a few very, very publicly failed experiments
where people have lost a lot of money.
I think this is as successful as how the the accounts use it.
And I actually think some of the accounts that came in, let's say
the only fan style, there was a few like gamers who came in.
We basically just used it to make a quick buck.
I do think that increasingly I'm also seeing some value from what
people are doing in there, like for example, KB M, but I'm going
to put all of my levered trades in this chat.
Now that essentially is like an alpha group.
But people do pay for that stuff, like people do pay to be
closer to top traders or top thought leaders in the space.
So as long as it doesn't just become like what we just saw, we
took about yesterday, it's like, right, I'm going to dump this
coin on my followers as long as there's actual value being
created. And I think you will see that.
Like I do think the accounts that are doing that are
naturally going closer to the top and the accounts that just
used it on the back of their name and aren't really using it
to provide any sort of utility aren't actually falling down.
So I do think there is, you got to be careful because I think
that as I said, I don't think you should be buying shares of
people for speculation that like oh, he's famous, he'll go higher
I think. But there is genuine like
interactions that that can be done this way, which I think
could be valuable to people and I can see why that will continue
to be valuable to people. If KB M decides to make that his
like alpha chat, then people will pay to be part of that
chat. And the same with a lot of
these, a lot of these top guys. So I think that's there is some
value to it, but let's see what happens.
I think for now, whenever I've mentioned like spoken in the
chat, there's clearly a lot of people in there just farming the
AirDrop right now. So I think you'll only really
know how good this is after the AirDrop.
Wait, what's the AirDrop? Like?
What's happening with the AirDrop cows?
Do you got a big AirDrop? What's going on?
Who are you? Are you?
I'm not a big you have a share of.
What's your name? Wait, what's her name?
Kathy Woods. Your love.
Is that? Is it Kathy Woods?
Wait, are you okay? But if Kathy Woods or Harry
Potter was on friend tech, how much?
How much would you just go all in?
You have to choose who shared friend.
Tech's interesting. I think the incentives are wrong
like. But rather than a running
payment to be a member of let's just say an alpha group, I pay
you like $3 a month or 30 bucks a month or 300 bucks a month or
whatever. Because I think your alpha is
good if we're sports betting or whatever, whereas this one, it's
all front loaded. So there's no incentive to like
keep the alpha coming. And I find that very
interesting. I also find it interesting that
all of the numbers about like the great performance of this
kind of protocol. Focused on TVL which is like
that's just because the top accounts have gone up in price.
I don't know if that's is that because users have increased,
number of trades have been going up and prices have been going
up, but those are the only two metrics that have been put out,
which to me says that's true. Which to me that says users
might not be going up at the same rate.
So the first thing I would say against what you said is it, I
agree with you mean like it's weird in that unique churn like
you need like people to set, buy and sell shares to make money,
but people you can't just buy a share without somebody selling
it. So like, it's not.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can do it that way.
So like people have got hundreds of holders for example, and if
the platform grows to thousands of users then it does it can
naturally just grow to meet the new demand at the same time.
So I think it's not totally front loaded, but I do see what
your point is like. There is an incentive also to if
no one set buys themselves your shares, like again, you don't
really have the incentive to provide, yeah, two valid points.
Again, nothing is perfect. I I think it would be
interesting to see. I think they will tweak this
with time. It's also very expensive to get
in and out of shares. So again, without an AirDrop, I
feel like people will be far less likely to to do this sort
of stuff. But a centralized platform for
for these sort of smaller groups I think I think can can be
successful and there's a lot of hate for it.
But I actually do think that if you're providing the right
content, people will. People will pay for it.
28,000 doesn't it is it is a lot of beef that they have.
Yeah. Third thing we should talk about
is the nouns fork. I don't know if you guys have
seen this. I know, Kelly, you want to talk
about it today, but nouns Dow, which is one of the biggest dows
actually in dows, they've got thousands of beef.
I believe it's gone to nouns down.
See how much they have. You know it's.
They are seemingly yeah let me share this tab. 30,000 eat
nearly. There is a fork happening right
now where which has been spoken about for a while but you can
now basically rage quit the Dow and take treasury from that from
that sale. I believe these nouns are
trading at like 20 before this was announced and that has now
changed to trading at like the fair value of the treasury.
So they basically now just trade at where the treasury is every
single day. So people are trading in them at
like 3435 E There was a period where they traded at a premium.
I think they traded as hard as like 100 E at one stage to where
the treasury is now. They are basically just trading
exactly in line with the where the treasury is and there's now
a chance you to get out. So if you own announced out and
you're not been happy with what's going on announced, you
can also leave which is just an interesting move.
I don't know if that's a. Good.
Wait, what does that mean? What does that mean?
You could just leave So Dows. All Dows really have a have a
have a way to rage quit, it's called or.
A lot of dows have this concept of a rage quit, which is you are
able to leave the Dow with your percentage of the treasury.
This is particularly common in like investment dows.
Things like Flamingo, Dow or or various other ones like you can
just leave with your cut. The treasury and nouns now have
decided to do this. So basically a lot of people who
own nouns or some people who own nouns, I don't even know.
I'm not as cleared up with the community is, but there was
definitely like after they closed down the discord, after
they closed around some of the centralization aspects of it,
people were like, well, this isn't really working like no
one's. They weren't typically happy
with what's being done with the funds.
It became more like a charitable style vehicle I would say.
And the prices of the nouns were trading at like 20 even though
they were backed buy more than that in the treasury.
Essentially the average back will be around 35.
Now they're basically saying if you're not happy you can leave.
So people are leaving and they're leaving and that's mean
that the price of the nouns has gone back up to 35 because at
any time you could leave for that that level.
So the risk of being part of nouns is kind of tiny I think.
I think in fact I don't know if you agree with this, but like
they could now trade up to like 40 or 50 because the risk is
very very low. Now to owning a nouns, cuz
you're it's basically zero, right?
Well, you can't. You can just leave at any.
The fork needs, the fork needs 20%, right?
This initial fork and then that forms another Dow and then you
can grade that down. So like or if. 20% of people are
not happy and they just want a new Dow.
They don't even want to rage quit.
Then they can fork it and then you.
So you can have multiple noun dows doing slightly different
things, some doing charitable stuff, some doing commercial
stuff, some doing whatever cultural stuff.
Which I think is interesting. It all stems from the fact I
think it stems from two things. The 1st is that they have this
massive treasury. The community votes on what to
do with it. It leaves it open to essentially
like some kind of malicious attack where somebody, somebody
owns 51% of the nouns, but there is a centralized like founder or
noun committee veto. So you can have a situation
where I'm 51%. I always say the only proposals
that get passed are ones where I pay myself the whole Treasury
and the that just gets vetoed permanently.
And then to send this so to the it's an equilibrium state, but
it's just pointless. I think that was the original
genesis for this mechanism, and personally I think it is.
It's just admitting it's kind of failed in some way.
Like you failed to establish collective vision, you failed to
create a protocol or where that is stable and working towards a
shared vision. And it's just a it's just a
transfer of wealth. It's literally a transfer of
East from people who bought their nouns for 100 E.
The people who bought their nouns for like less than the
current market value of the pro after Treasury.
That's all it is. That's a very interesting point.
It's a very, very. Like, it's kind of depressing.
It's kind of depressing. It's literally.
I'm like, yeah, I I was just listening.
You're like you failed and I'm just like, OK, I've not even
announced that. I hope it's not gonna be like
that. I hope it's not gonna be like
that. I hope you know you have a
culture dial of a noun, like all these different dials which are
furthering. Like mission of nouns.
But it feels like if you have to rewrite your mission statement
five different times, it feels like the initial mission
statement may be a failure. I don't.
I don't know. So I'm.
Really got noun style? Go ahead, Kels.
I don't know. It just feels like this is kind
of what a lot of people felt like.
They weren't really sure what it was meant to be.
But everyone felt like, well with this amount of ease we can
do a lot of cool things and they they did do quite a few cool
things like they've sponsored a bunch of different stuff.
And I think it's very key to very key to say like this isn't,
this isn't necessarily like the failure for everyone like all
they need is what, 167, they need 167 nouns, 20% of the Dow,
only 20% of the Dow to to to form this like separation, which
is quite a low level but maybe 20% of people don't think it's
gone right. The other the other 80% might be
happy with what's what's been going on.
But like, if you're gonna, if you're looking in the worst
possible light, yeah, it's kind of it's kind of bad that like
this DAO just decided that they just, you know, it's not really
working. Company successful companies
don't just dissolve and disperse 100% of your pro router worth.
That's I don't know, it's just funny, but it's a good design to
prevent malicious attacks. But then the initial design
wasn't right, so I don't know. I don't so could OK reel it back
in one more time for old times sake for the explain it like I'm
five situation. So let's say I bought a noun
style for 28th. Now the fork is coming.
Chat says one spoon. I don't know let's get to the
fork. So 28th is this bullish bearish.
Now this announcement like you could you could leave.
What does that mean? Like how does it?
What is happening now with my 20th?
So I get my money back. Guaranteed 28th back if you had
bought it for 28th. That's the question right now.
You cannot buy a noun for 28th. They are now trading at 35 eve,
so the trading. Let's say I bought it at 20 Eve.
Yeah, so now you could technically be like, right?
I can form this part of this 20% of people who want to leave, and
when we leave, I'll get 35 Eve. For the 28th, I paid.
The other thing is I don't think It's not like you burn your
noun, right? You still are a noun, you just
take the bit of the bit of. So This is why I.
Think so. Do you make any profit or you
just take that? Yeah, you make.
I guess if you bought it at 20 Eve, you have a problem.
You can make like 15 Eve profit here if you bought it at 100.
There's no there's nothing for you to do unless you like,
really. OK.
So hold on. OK.
So you buy it at you bought, you
bought it at 100 E right now they're trading at 35 E You get
35 E back. Yeah, if you want to leave
clear, people might want to do that, like before they were
trading it for. There was no way they could get
out. Now if you bought 100 E and you
were annoyed with what's going on in the Dow, you can at least
leave the 35 and people can be maybe happy with that.
So I'm not saying maybe that question is that's a that's a
sunk cost. We would say in in economics 101
you wouldn't. That doesn't really matter what
the future decision. But you might decide that you
want to leave at 35, which I think is, which I think some
people will do. But it's more for me, it's more
sad because I think people had people just had big views for
nouns and to see this and to see that that actually people just
aren't happy with how it's being run it's it's sad and that
that's gone that way because I think you know radius Dow like
people trying to make dows work and if there are clearly some
tragedy of the Commons issues with dows like people don't have
shared incentives shared. I don't know outcomes from what
happens within dows which are very, very difficult to
overcome. Like that's again you can almost
want to want difficult to overcome those other things.
But I I also think it's kind of bullish that that a Dow can also
decide to do this. I don't know like a lot of other
Dows you can't exit like this or at least haven't gone this
route. Like a lot of the big defy Dow
for example, you can't just rage quit.
So I think it's it's kind of good that the Dow has also been
able to dissolve itself is that they are good not doing anything
but also getting themselves out of a situation.
Yeah, they're all aligned. In terms of realizing that it's
gone wrong, that's the only alignment right?
But. This is, I'm establishing
consensus that it's not right. But yeah, you're right, that's
consensus I guess. So if you can get out for 35 Es
right now, or let's say this passes, you can get out for 35
Es would surely a Dow could. Surely they could start training
for like 40 or 45. It's like maybe you like the
art, maybe you want to just like it's it's cool to have an ounce
PFP that it's the same for half the other Pfp's out there.
Like you don't think people would pay like for that extra
value of like the PFP? Yeah.
I mean, they were trading at 20 with no cash.
Now they're trading at, they're trading at. 35 cash, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
I guess there's sometimes happen so I guess yes maybe maybe net
net makes sense. Anyway I don't think there's a
trade there but it's it's still interesting to see nouns
seemingly is coming to not full end because I think people are
still doing a lot there but it is interesting to go that route
The the the final thing I think we were going to talk about
today was in ship coins Matt Fury sold his Pepe.
I don't know if you saw this, but like obviously Pepe the ship
coin I'm involved in, a bunch of different people are involved in
and it was gifted to him by the pond community.
I don't know if you know that community.
It's run by Pauly and they gave him $1,000,000 worth of Pepe and
he has. He has gone on and sold it and
serious hit. I'm just going to share this
book on serious hate to talk about Matt Fury's and his Pepe
as if that was a negative event. The person who created Pepe de
Frog just a good life changing money off the crypto based on
his work that's incredibles happy with him.
So like there is two sides to us.
He obviously sold it. I don't think, I don't think he
was really involved in the start of it at all.
Like I think he asked us several times on spaces like oh, you
shouldn't do you want to be part of this or And he was like, no.
Like I'm not gonna get involved. So when they sent it to him, I
think it was just a gift and he seemed as monetized that gift.
But Matt Furos obviously have a lot of stuff in the space and I
think it's I'll get the transaction actually here, but
he made. Wait, pause.
Is Pepe a rug? Not all of this, but it is.
A like has it rugged Like, is it?
Is it like ever coming back or is it just like?
Over it. It's always going back.
Happy's the best. Best.
It's always coming back. I'm.
Really gonna be looking at here. I'm trying to find the
transaction. I'm trying to find the
transaction. Good.
Someone asked me for it and I found it anyway.
Yeah. What did you guys think of that?
I mean, he's an artist. Like he probably needs the money
more than. A lot of other people in crypto,
although he's done a lot of drops now, right like as you
said, a lot of NFT, he's got a lot of Nft's out there.
But you know lifestyle creep, maybe as he's made more money
his life's become more expensive and he just he needs the extra
mil. Also, he's not.
When people get gifted something and it's worth a million, what
price did he get gifted to that? I think he got given it at a
million and he seemingly walked away with around.
Looks like about 600 grand. So like, he's probably looking
at that thinking he's not a trader.
He's not a trader. He's probably thinking, fuck
this could you know, I haven't got the stomach for this to get
to 0. Like maybe he is a trader, but I
don't think that he is anyway. And yeah, my dad is lifestyle.
Creep think lifestyle. He's.
I think he's made millions like if I count up everything he's
done. I think he dogs.
Pegs, heads. I think it's in the millions.
I mean, I think he should have been paid that amount.
Like, Pepe's been a huge arguably he's the biggest artist
of Internet culture for many, many, many, many years.
Well, it's interesting. He seeded it.
He seeded it, and he did the
original. And he should make millions from
that, there's no doubt about that.
But if he just did it without the millions, literally
millions, of people who have created their own bespoke Pepe
image, it would just be an unknown cartoon comic strip like
it was. It wasn't propagated.
By are you saying this individual should make millions
of dollars for making the Pepe 100%?
Probably billions, but he's not responsible for the propagation
of me. We are all responsible.
Is this COPE OK? Could someone just.
Because so much is OK. Listen, I need financial advice.
It's not financial advice, but I need financial advice.
So like what? Just what's happening for those
that like have Pepe like do we just do we just chill like this?
This is this is that's important.
I just thought it was interesting.
Like famously. I remember when was it 2021
metallic. The creator of EVE, he got given
billions of dollars worth of shit the token ship and he ended
up donating it. To India and I think they killed
like hundreds of 1,000,000 in the end.
I think ship tanked after you then donated it, but like they
made a lot of money. It was to do with India floods
or some sort of India charity and that has parallels to this,
like someone gifted, seemingly a creator, like a, I don't know,
someone that they wanted to respect in the community.
And then they went and sold it. Would you have sold it Cali?
If someone gave you $1,000,000 worth of this, and it was, I
wouldn't any coin. Would you have sold it?
No. But you don't know what's going
on as life. It could be lifestyle cream, it
could be going through divorce, could want a bigger house, could
want a Lambo. We've never been there in
lifetime. I really hope you guys a good
Lambo with this. Actually, that would be a really
good art. It's like a green Lambo, yeah.
So just like quick recap though is are the people behind Pepe
cuz like the last I like really honestly life has been just
hidden us with it and the last I saw was just like a post on X
about like how like some devs stole whatever so did we uncover
few. Weeks ago.
The devs. The original devs behind Pepe I
mean. It's a shit coin dev, so it's
not like it's not like the devs of like a D5 protocol, but like
they after they've announced the contract a few months later down
the line, they then sold their coins, or at least some of them
got stolen and then sold. So that wasn't a good look.
It wasn't like a happy went down about.
So it didn't. It didn't rug A.
Rug. Because it's not like it's a
mean point. You know what I mean?
Like it's not. A cat rug.
It's just it's not real. If they run away with your
money, or if it's a if it's a if a italic decides to just get out
of all of his Eve, you might be like, not great.
Or if somebody sold, I mean what?
We've had some examples of that recently, but yeah, it's it
doesn't require utility. I was really looking at Pepe
like the like like E. Yeah, well, hopefully, hopefully
you won't because I think they're quite different, but
otherwise. I was.
Then I think we should end on some, on some.
Being bulltards, I think there was something that came out
yesterday which was a Mexican billionaire actually with who is
the the star of of the crypto TV show that is today it's worth 14
billion. I now opted.
I basically. Do you love that laugh?
A micro strategy. Four or five miners and some oil
companies and some gold miners. That's it in the liquid part.
So billionaires, billionaires getting into crypto, he thinks
it's the he thinks it's we're gonna see crazy inflation of the
next step. You should listen to this
interview. It's actually such good.
But what the guys worth 14 billion?
He's basically put all of his liquid money into Bitcoin,
Bitcoin related investments, goals, anything that has says
host has muted your screen. You guys still hear me?
Yep. Weird.
Something just came up saying I've been muted.
But yeah, just interesting to see billionaires getting into
crypto. I think you're gonna see more
and more of this. I'm surprised that we haven't
seen more billionaires decide that they're gonna go into
crypto. Like if you're a billionaire
right now, Kelly. Like, do you not think this is
what do you mean? You could hedge like it's a good
hedge for being a billionaire. When you're a billionaire, all
you care about is staying a billionaire, and Bitcoin is the
biggest protector of that in an inflationary environment.
Yeah, I would agree with that. If you run some form of debt
fuels capitalist organization like.
I just feel as though Bitcoin is, it should be a more obvious
heads for a lot of these people. So I think you're gonna see more
of this. I saw and I was like, this is
exactly why I think it should be owning crypto.
Decentralized money, decentralized value.
And it got me bullish for the weekend.
Nice. I think that's even more true if
you live in like a country or a region where you know, inflation
has historically been very rampant in like politics is
unstable, who knows what's going to happen, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. With Bitcoin, you're kind of
insured against that a lot more than you are with your money on
local banks or it's interesting. I'm always bullish on Bitcoin,
just not the end state of it. They need to fix it.
OK, look, I think that was it
for today's show again. Like, I thought it was a good
show, good week. It's been great having you.
Like I said, Farokh is not here next week.
So you guys are both more than welcome.
Like, come on, any day. OSF doesn't say a word, so it's
basically just gonna be me. I don't know if I could do this.
I'm taught. It's just like I got so much
look at look at all these notes. I got all.
Stuff that I'm like, I don't know, cows maybe, I don't know
maybe. Well, me and cows are gonna do.
We're gonna do rug tank. Yeah, we should do rug tank as
well. Maybe.
Maybe we should do that. We'll get some people off on
stage, push us their worst crypto idea.
I'm afraid of cows. He's like, I feel like he's
like, when he was talking about the now, I was like, ooh, spicy
take, like you're really just opening up.
And now I'm just like, I don't know.
Cows are gonna have like, crazy takes.
Ali does have aggressive text. He just doesn't pop pop.
In fact, before he's we, we ran himself the cows.
He was a bit of a troll on on Twitter.
That's not true. I love that.
All all tweets now deleted so you won't be able to talk
officially through. That's kind of Oh my God.
OK, OK. Well, it was, it was super fun.
I learned a lot from you guys, so thank you for having me.
It was great and like always, the good way to start the day.
Some some good stuff. Yeah, yeah, I love it.
Thanks a lot. Thanks everyone in the audience
for for tuning in for this week. We've obviously been sponsored
by Kraken again. kraken.com for slash rug radio if you want to
go check them out. It'll be me, Osef, hopefully
Mika and Cows next week as well. Farrok said he's going to try
and turn up maybe a couple of the early days depending on what
what he's got going on in Singapore.
But thanks so much for joining us and we will see you again
next week.