1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:07,920 Good morning, good morning GMGM everyone, and welcome to another 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:15,200 episode of Homo Hour. Today is Friday, April 25th 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,120 point .5 and it's another green morning out there folks. 4 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:26,560 GM and D crypto majors, alts, beams, all rally, even the 5 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:30,720 crypto AI board is pumping. And the question is, can this 6 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,160 continue? We're going to break it all down 7 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,240 on today's show. No for rope, but we've got a 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,120 full house. We got Mando, stats, Jeeves, all 9 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,920 in the studio. You love to see it, boys. 10 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,000 Jim, hey, how you doing? I'm doing great, man. 11 00:00:45,160 --> 00:00:47,080 I'm doing great. Someone is here. 12 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:51,960 Indeed, sun is shining, but even in Chicago sun, we haven't had 13 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,080 it for for months, but we have it now, sets Sam, Jim, how are 14 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,360 you doing? GMGM, how's Life? 15 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,840 Good. Even even better, now I could 16 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:03,960 talk to you. I'm doing. 17 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,600 Yeah, you know, like I said, I haven't had a coffee yet, so my 18 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,520 personality will change as the show goes on. 19 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,160 Well, we're excited to track that and your caffeine levels in 20 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,000 real time during the show. And folks, we've got Jeeves on 21 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,040 with us here this morning as well. 22 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,120 Jeeves GM, how you doing? GMGM ready to be that coffee for 23 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:22,200 Sam? Wake him up here. 24 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:23,640 Let's go, baby. Well. 25 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,680 I don't have coffee, but what I do have is a shiny new Canon. 26 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,720 Erect here, folks. I've got the old one here. 27 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:34,520 Is it better? You said it was better. 28 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,680 I I haven't actually tasted it, but Ovie says this one's way 29 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:37,360 better. So. 30 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,680 So I I gave my I gave a review on X yesterday. 31 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:46,880 To those who who've already hasn't seen it, that was not a 32 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,040 paid review by any means. That was an honest and genuine 33 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,000 review. This is better. 34 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,280 I I haven't, is it just? Water or is it? 35 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,760 Is it just sparkling flavored water? 36 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,440 It is flavored sparkling water. Very very clean list of 37 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:04,640 ingredients. I'm going to read them off. 38 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:10,000 Carbonated water, organic agave syrup, natural apple flavour, 39 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,920 natural Raspberry flavour, natural flavours and then malic 40 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:16,000 acid. So pretty clean ingredient list. 41 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:23,200 It is more carbonated than the lime and I like the flavours. 42 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:27,800 How did you get them? I think, I think Obi must have 43 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,200 sent you them. I haven't even got any. 44 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,400 So I don't know what you did for the first round, but you you got 45 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,640 them before I did. I still haven't tasted it. 46 00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:38,760 So he's doing this like abstract tour at the moment. 47 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,080 He's doing like 20 different shows of the last two days. 48 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,080 So Tyler, you tell me how you got them. 49 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,480 Like, did you? I've got the inside track. 50 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,200 Yeah, clearly. With OV but that I believe they 51 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,440 will open up for a public sale soon. 52 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,920 I think there is some some news to come. 53 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,320 So I don't know exactly when that's going to be. 54 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,480 I do think it is going to be soon and I think these are going 55 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,000 to move quickly that that's my prediction at least as soon as 56 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,520 people get a chance to taste these because they are quite 57 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,840 good folks. What are we talking about on 58 00:03:10,920 --> 00:03:12,440 this morning show? We're going to talk about more 59 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,400 than coffee and drinks, even though I could probably do a 60 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,120 full hour on this. We're going to talk about the 61 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,520 crypto market rallying. Is it decoupling the the Bitcoin 62 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:25,320 ETS $2.8 billion in inflows in five days, Seoul outperforming 63 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,640 in majors, we outperforming in alts. the Fed rescinding its 64 00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:32,640 crypto guidance, Metamask launching gasless trading, 65 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:34,760 Coinbase listing, Zora market didn't care. 66 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:36,840 Memes pumping crypto, AI pumping. 67 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,840 Deloitte eyeing 4.5 trillion and tokenized real estate. 68 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,760 I know Jeeves's eyes lit up when he saw that RWA headline plus 69 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:49,160 double yeet spins. Before we dive in, a quick shout 70 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,040 out to our partner Wallet Connect. 71 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,320 Wallet Connect is the connectivity network shaping the 72 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,240 future of on chain UX. If you've connected to a web 3 73 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,640 app, you've seen wallet connect that blue logo. 74 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,840 It's everywhere, an icon of trust in crypto as recognizable 75 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,280 as Visa at the checkout. You want to learn more? 76 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,280 Follow at wallet connect on X and Telegram to stay ahead of 77 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,280 what's next. All right, we love our partners. 78 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,800 As always. Mando, if you're ready, let's 79 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:18,760 get into. It. 80 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,200 Can you dig it? Good day, another good day 81 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:29,880 really in crypto. I think we everyone keeps 82 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:34,000 waiting for the day that we kind of sell off and there just seems 83 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,280 to be support around this like 92 1/2 or 92 K level for Bitcoin 84 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:41,760 at the moment and these green candles continue. 85 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,040 I think it's just something to always be worried about with 86 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:45,880 crypto. Is that like the good periods 87 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,200 often and actually sometimes the bad periods happen quickly. 88 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:51,000 You know, risk happens quickly in crypto. 89 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,000 And and right now, I think if you weren't exposed to the 90 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,200 market, you are probably in I'll buy the next dip. 91 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,520 And and these dips have quite shallow, it feels like. 92 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,480 So probably, probably just indicates that people were were 93 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,240 less invested than I thought they were. 94 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,880 And yeah, good, good period here. 95 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:13,200 Bitcoin dominance is is still kind of hanging out at 64 1/2. 96 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,080 It's mainly because of ETH is still underperforming, but 97 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,440 there's been some winners in in L1 for sure. 98 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,720 Sui has probably been the main winner and then a lot of the 99 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,000 more risky activity on on Solana's come back. 100 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,920 So most of the major Solana memes are up a decent amount and 101 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,320 some of the AI coins, the AI coins are back up to 8 billion 102 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,280 as a as like a as a group now on cookie, which I thought was was 103 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:39,480 relatively interesting. Fartcoin has not been doing as 104 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,560 well, which I thought was was, yeah, again interesting. 105 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,360 It's it's now gone a bit more broad and there's there's a few 106 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,760 other things involved in that rally. 107 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,640 I I think the main story at least for trap by this week 108 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:55,760 continues to be this this this Canter vehicle alongside Tether. 109 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,120 I just think that that the idea that we may have like another 110 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,520 micro strategy and you've seen a very good reaction to Canter 111 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:08,800 stock on the back of that is it's just a good sign. 112 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,960 And I think people are thinking that, you know, this is going to 113 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,800 continue here as other other vehicles may be spun up, whether 114 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,840 it's sovereign wealth funds or or actually public vehicles than 115 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,440 to to buy Bitcoin here. So that's why I think the dips 116 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,360 are shallow. And I think people also will 117 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,000 probably less invested than than they were a few months ago. 118 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,800 So there's a little bit of FOMO creeping in. 119 00:06:32,280 --> 00:06:36,600 I don't know if now's like some incredible time to buy, but I do 120 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,920 think it's, I would be unsurprised if like there's this 121 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,120 grind hire, which is, which doesn't feel that good for a lot 122 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,960 of the market participants. That's that's kind of my guess, 123 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:50,720 yeah. I don't really know why Sui, Our 124 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,040 performance has been kind of strange. 125 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:57,360 All I can really see is this is this Pokémon thing because it 126 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:58,760 hasn't. It's not like a ton that ever 127 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,120 really goes on on Sui, if I'm honest. 128 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,120 It's a lot of like B to B stuff rather than huge amounts of D 129 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,360 fire or anything like that or huge amounts of NFTS. 130 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,920 There's some stuff going on, but it's it's nowhere near like some 131 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,880 of the other chains. So maybe we're going to hear 132 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,000 some more headlines specific to Siri coming on the the move 133 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,360 feels like it feels almost parabolic at this stage, right? 134 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,960 75% in seven days from now. One that's pretty aggressive. 135 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,400 It's big. I mean 37 billion FTB. 136 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,880 Yeah, right. What do you what do you do in 137 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,320 sui? Does it seem like a catch up 138 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,600 trade Mando people trying to chase what would maybe be next 139 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,320 cycle Solana since it has a bit of like narrative and mind 140 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,920 share? That's what it always has been 141 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,440 with Sui. I feel like I just don't know 142 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:52,240 why at times it feels like, oh this is, I don't know. 143 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,880 Like if I look at I don't know how much stables, like what is 144 00:07:54,880 --> 00:08:02,480 Sui TVL like so ETDL has only 1.5 billion or 1.7 or 8 billion. 145 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:07,320 Like that's not crazy as chains go. 146 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,360 Yeah, like Arbitrim has 2 1/2 eight. 147 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,480 It's kind of just above Avax really, right. 148 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,320 Sonic's even close to it. I, I don't know, just see. 149 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,880 It just seems like it has this like momentum behind it. 150 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:29,000 And I, I get the feeling it may be there's going to be some 151 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,240 headlines around Siri that maybe we haven't heard about. 152 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,280 Like those numbers don't point to like, Oh my God, this, this 153 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,960 is about to go crazy, right? Have you guys used Siri? 154 00:08:39,159 --> 00:08:40,880 Like is this a platform you guys spend time on? 155 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,800 I haven't. I don't think it's very B to B 156 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,960 to C like there's not much activity that goes on. 157 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,560 There's been a lot of like corporate integrations that I've 158 00:08:50,560 --> 00:08:57,560 seen, but less less like NFTS mean points. 159 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,760 I don't even know if people use it for payments that often. 160 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,200 I think that's the right, I mean, I have used it. 161 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,200 I've I've traded some NFTS on this suite, I've traded a 162 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:14,120 handful of tokens, but I do think Mando's read is the right 163 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,120 one. I mean daily active addresses 164 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,880 are they do seem to be grinding up here. 165 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:25,680 They're up 3X this year. You always have to be careful 166 00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:27,600 with that metric and they can be blamed. 167 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,120 Maybe I'm missing what people are doing on there. 168 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,120 Like I look at the where the TBL is, it's this sui lend protocol. 169 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,040 So they clearly have a lending protocol on there. 170 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,360 So pop. Pop over to search, search for 171 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,840 Sui, go to Application Activity, it's the next one on that 172 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,280 ribbon. And then click View All Assets, 173 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,520 which is in the second window down. 174 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:53,480 You see that? Yeah. 175 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,920 And then filter by daily active addresses, sort that from these. 176 00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:59,640 I think it's already sorted actually by that. 177 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,280 Yeah, record. I've never heard of any of these 178 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:09,160 things. 818,000 people using SIM app 116,000 using fan TV. 179 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,480 I've never heard of any of this. Like you see the Siri is my 180 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,880 biggest alt bag and I've never used the chain and I know 181 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,520 nothing about it. I I think that's what's driving 182 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:21,960 a lot of the price to be honest. Yeah. 183 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,080 Maybe we should pay attention to record. 184 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,320 It's got a million active daily addresses. 185 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,680 I just typed in record and sui and nothing's come up. 186 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,520 Nothing comes up on Google either. 187 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,520 Yeah, that's what I mean. What's going on here guys? 188 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:36,800 What are we? What are we missing? 189 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:41,320 Record App. It allows creators to monetize 190 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:47,000 via short videos based in Dubai. Content. 191 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,400 Maybe I missed this like. Based in Dubai. 192 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,600 That's a signal. In the Last Post was a week ago, 193 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:02,520 so it felt. Like it was more than just like 194 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,160 the Pokémon headline. I didn't think the Pokémon 195 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:09,480 headline was enough to pump it 50% this week. 196 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:15,520 But I feel like from a narrative perspective, I feel like Jeeves 197 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,400 kind of has it. Like it feels like it's the if 198 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,680 you want to belt bet on all L1 out further out the risk curb 199 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:25,640 and salon. Like what are you? 200 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:30,000 What are you going to bet on and high perhaps is is the most 201 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:37,680 consensus sweet kind of next been a little bit more quiet. 202 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,920 So so maybe that's it. I I want to zoom out a little 203 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:43,040 bit. Mando, thanks for the the 204 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,040 broader report and go around the horn. 205 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:50,760 Maybe Sam, I'm curious As for your thoughts on on macro here. 206 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:55,560 I think you, you shared a couple tweets this week. 207 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:57,080 I was, I was scrolling through 1. 208 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:01,280 You kind of called out consumer sentiment at multi year lows and 209 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,720 you're kind of showing how crypto sentiment feels different 210 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:08,040 than that. Perhaps more 5050, which I argue 211 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,640 maybe it's even higher than that to be honest, but maybe we have 212 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,560 to separate Bitcoin from crypto. But just kind of maybe curious 213 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:17,640 for your thoughts, going to elaborate on this and and how 214 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:22,840 are you feeling about this? Bro, all the am I? 215 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:24,680 Am I losing you guys? I'm not sure if my reception is 216 00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:26,120 kind of getting weirder if that's everybody. 217 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,680 You're fine now. Yeah. 218 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,200 I mean, I, I think the macro indicators are pretty bad. 219 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:36,080 I think the impact like I'm kind of of the view that we've been 220 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,760 in like a 70 year bull market basically because of 221 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:43,120 globalization, certainly the past 30 years, like bull market 222 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,600 for big corporates. And that is kind of what we're 223 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,160 chipping away at right now. And that's really been the core 224 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,480 of a huge, not just enormous earnings growth, but also huge 225 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,440 multiple expansion for stocks. You know, if you look at things 226 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,240 like the dollar, like they're sending pretty bad signals. 227 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,760 I think all the pretty much every sentiment indicator you're 228 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:07,880 seeing is pretty bad right now. And I think that these tariffs 229 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,160 and kind of this commitment to kind of chip away at 230 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,960 globalization is real. And and it's going to be going 231 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,560 on for a while. And I think there's a bit of a 232 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:19,360 sentiment among markets that just one tweet from Donald Trump 233 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,880 and it's all going to be over. And I just don't get that read 234 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,560 from when I hear him. So from a macro perspective and 235 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:27,600 an equity perspective, I think there's reason to be cautious. 236 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:29,920 I think what we're seeing in crypto, though, is the opposite. 237 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,240 Like we're seeing crypto starting to show signs of 238 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,000 behaving. I mean, if you look at metals 239 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,720 and equities, they almost like gold is obviously the core 240 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,080 metal. But more often than not, they're 241 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,800 trading in opposite directions where gold goes up and equity 242 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:48,080 goes down or or vice versa. And we're starting to see crypto 243 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,520 kind of behave a bit more like gold. 244 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,440 And you're starting to see the use case or the idea that 245 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,520 crypto's an interesting place to be if the world order starts to 246 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,720 get chipped away at. Like that thesis has never 247 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,400 played out before, but over the past few weeks you're starting 248 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,960 to see signs of it. So I'm, I'm, you know, that 249 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,720 that's kind of my, my broad picture view is, you know, a bit 250 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,320 more cautious on equities and risk assets, but a bit more like 251 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,560 kind of 5050. Like maybe crypto starts turning 252 00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:19,480 here and becoming something that people want to be in, in a world 253 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,920 where the things that we're used to and the things that have 254 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,480 driven kind of economic growth forever start to get chipped 255 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,040 away at. It's interesting. 256 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,320 I, I feel like I, I agree with that directional read. 257 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,120 I'm curious like what, what, what has shifted in this? 258 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,440 Like what's driving this Bitcoin decoupling right now? 259 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,200 I guess it's kind of like my question and why is I think that 260 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:44,800 it's happening in the last 7 days? 261 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,640 I mean, it's hard to say 7 days versus like a month ago or 262 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,840 whatever, but and it's on for a while, right? 263 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,480 It's definitely been going off versus stocks. 264 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:54,480 It's been definitely been going on. 265 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,320 For a while, right? I think we decouple, started 266 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,200 decoupling about six weeks ago, maybe six weeks. 267 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,920 From like the election until like February, though, like 268 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:06,800 Bitcoin was correlated with Tesla more than it was 269 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,960 correlated with gold. Like they're both kind of like 270 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,840 high beta proxies for, for assets that the administration 271 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:17,000 viewed favorably And like that was like, but like Tesla and, 272 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,000 and, and Bitcoin were more correlated than than Bitcoin and 273 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,560 gold were up until about 6 weeks ago. 274 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,640 But we've I, I, I think just gold has been insane. 275 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,120 You know how like this, this has been like a multi multi standard 276 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,720 deviation move for gold. And it's, you know, it's, it's 277 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:36,560 not people don't have gold going up 35% like over six months kind 278 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,960 of on their on their bingo card. And when that happens, I think 279 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,320 people want to know what else they can get into. 280 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,600 And I think really ever since the tariffs, gold has been the 281 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,960 keynote asset. And I think once, you know, we 282 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,600 see it in crypto like it used to be at least that when Bitcoin 283 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,800 had run then like everything else would kind of follow. 284 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:53,960 I feel like right now people like, well, I don't want to get 285 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,080 into gold. It feels a little it's it's run 286 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,240 too much. Oh, Bitcoin could be like an 287 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,680 alternative as far as like kind of like one of these inflation 288 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,840 hedge assets, even though it hasn't been that historically. 289 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:04,520 Just feels like that narrative's coming around. 290 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,560 Plus we have an administration that really likes it. 291 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,400 Yeah, you have Lutnick, who is working on this. 292 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,680 Can't, I mean, Cantor is working on this product and, you know, 293 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,960 the head of Cantor is in the administration. 294 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,200 And then you have Sailor in the background who's kind of like a 295 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,520 constant buy force as well as all the other things I have 296 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,200 absolutely no idea about that drive these markets that we're 297 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,440 completely oblivious to. But you know, it feels like it 298 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,360 feels like there are a lot of different forces kind of lining 299 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,080 up. But as people say, like, hey, we 300 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,040 want to get out of U.S. dollars as as our kind of backbone of 301 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,360 our portfolio, like Bitcoin just feels like an area that people 302 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,200 might want to turn to. Yeah. 303 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,400 And that six weeks is basically since Liberation Day. 304 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:44,560 I mean, it's really Liberation Day. 305 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,720 I think that triggered this because that was when that was 306 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,560 when we made it clear that like, you know, gold, that the US had 307 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,600 an interest in being playing a different role in the world 308 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:52,760 economy than we have in the past. 309 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,960 And Bitcoin was 75 K on 17 days ago. 310 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:01,280 You. Know yeah, it's it's been pretty 311 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,440 it's been pretty sudden. I don't know what the trigger 312 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,800 was that that switched us from fear to FOMO. 313 00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:07,640 I'm not sure what that trigger was. 314 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,000 I mean, other than perhaps maybe that was when gold really 315 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,200 started hitting these like crazy all time highs every day and 316 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,400 doing like 3% moves, which it never used to do. 317 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,640 It is interesting if, if I feel like there is growing sentiment 318 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,240 that stocks like, while we might get like relief rallies, that 319 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,599 the, that the, the broader direction is still down and that 320 00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:29,880 the, the pain of the terrace hasn't even really been seen 321 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,560 yet. And if stocks become less 322 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,280 investable, but you still want to invest, like what are the 323 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:36,800 options? I think you kind of laid it out 324 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,320 and gold's on a parabolic move. Do you want to buy the top or do 325 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,120 you want to buy something else? Real quick, folks, today's 326 00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:47,280 raffle block code is Friday and we are going to be doing those 327 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,320 yeet giveaways here and probably just about 10 to 15 minutes. 328 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,160 So they are coming up. Jeeps, I want to give you a 329 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,280 chance to weigh in. And we, we, we talk every 330 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,520 Tuesday about the conversation here. 331 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,920 Yeah, I mean, just a just a lot, Tyler, this move and interest in 332 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,120 Bitcoin, I think it makes sense. It's something that we've talked 333 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:12,440 about for a long time. When Bitcoin was 75 K, it looked 334 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,240 less like digital gold. At closer to 95, it's looking a 335 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,600 lot more like digital gold. And I think that narrative just 336 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,960 compiles. You know, last night at this 337 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,600 event, I was talking with a guy who's a wealth manager for high 338 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,240 net worths. He's now putting 2% allocation 339 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,040 into Bitcoin for all of his clients. 340 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:32,680 And I think that's where it starts. 341 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,200 This is one of the things that we had spoken about earlier 342 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,560 where, you know, folks are and, and, and ideally advisors start 343 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,520 to recommend to their clients to have some level of Bitcoin 344 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,920 allocation. But I think when you see these 345 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,800 huge signals like Cantor going after the Bitcoin space, like 346 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,400 taking over the micro strategy, replicating micro strategy, when 347 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,960 you start to see the government moving in a very pro crypto 348 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,480 direction with, you know, the two stable bills that are 349 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,120 happening with the market structure bill and the 350 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:05,320 government's clearly aligning toward crypto, It makes it less 351 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,040 of a scary asset to invest in in times like this. 352 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,840 And when you see when you start to see the price go up, I think 353 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,000 sentiment changes. You know, I, I love seeing sort 354 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,680 of the hard data and then I love like the sentiment checks with 355 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,320 neighbors, people in different industries just to see how 356 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,640 things are going. And so, you know, we talked 357 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,320 about this privately, but just know a lot of folks who are 358 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,240 changing up general spending behavior. 359 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,960 Our neighbor stopped over yesterday. 360 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,720 She's a realtor, you know, covers the Denver market, has 361 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,840 been in it for a long time. And she said things are have now 362 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,520 cooled off significantly. So we cooled off for a little 363 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,200 while. I think things started to heat 364 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,520 up slightly again. And she said it is completely 365 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,160 dead and no one's moving, no one's selling, no one's buying. 366 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:55,320 You know, obviously rates are a huge part here, but you know, 367 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,400 the reality is that people and companies are having difficulty 368 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,480 making any type of long term decisions, not knowing where 369 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,400 things are heading. And so stability in the world 370 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,560 and markets is just being disrupted a bit. 371 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,280 And so for now, the, the best decision for most people has 372 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,920 become no decision. And then this right here, you 373 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,520 know, I think this is some really great data coming out of 374 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,320 trucking activity in Los Angeles. 375 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,720 The the data source here is Sonar which is a data and 376 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,480 logistics company. Focused on on shipping, 377 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,640 trucking, etcetera. And this is showing that things 378 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,040 are kind of falling off a Cliff coming out of trucking in LA and 379 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,400 this guy Craig Fuller is anticipating a 50% drop here. 380 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:40,000 So we're talking major reduction in trucking coming out of LA, 381 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,640 which is where a lot of our Asian goods come in to sports. 382 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,640 So we're seeing it in the data. We are thanks. 383 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,600 Thanks for sharing this and I I was trying to find a friend of 384 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,200 mine runs in e-commerce business. 385 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:57,040 He sells E bikes and he posted his thoughts yesterday and 386 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:01,560 basically said most small E com businesses are just in survive 387 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,720 mode. And that might mean selling 388 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,520 existing inventory till it's gone and not repurchasing 389 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:15,360 anything until there's more clarity on supply chains and and 390 00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:17,600 where they can source products from. 391 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,600 And he is kind of comparing it to the COVID level crisis. 392 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,280 Just bunker down and and try to make it through. 393 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,320 And he paints A gloomy picture as well. 394 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,960 And like this is going to start to to impact folks, impact 395 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,560 products, a sun shelves, higher prices, all that. 396 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,840 So that picture is gloomy. I think Sam, you also shared bat 397 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,400 soups thoughts which are pretty in line. 398 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,560 He's saying recession at best, stagflation at worst. 399 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,280 Basically, US has put themselves in in a tough position here. 400 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:58,160 One of the interesting things talking about soup is like, I 401 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,440 think there's this view that the money printer is going to turn 402 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:01,800 on and that's going to save everyone. 403 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,320 I think people are really imprinting this COVID economic 404 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,280 cycle onto this cycle when COVID was such a unique outlier that 405 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,840 to think like that's going to be replicated, I think, you know, 406 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,800 it, it, it feels uncertain to me for sure. 407 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,680 But bat Sup's kind of of the view that lower rates might be 408 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,320 bad for markets that right now. There's that, that right now, 409 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,040 broadly speaking, like people think like long term inflation 410 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:28,120 is going to be higher and, and like, and that lower rates 411 00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:30,720 aren't really aren't really the the key or the solution. 412 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,880 And one of the interesting things was the day that it was 413 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,200 announced or the day it wasn't, it was never announced, but the 414 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,120 day it was suggested by Walter Bloomberg and Watcher guru that 415 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:40,720 Trump wasn't going to fire Powell. 416 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,920 And he said that to you like the day that he said like, I'm not 417 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,960 going to fire Powell, markets ripped. 418 00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:47,400 Now him firing Powell would be dovish. 419 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,000 Like the reason he doesn't like Powell is because Powell wants 420 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,360 to keep rates high or doesn't want to keep right side, but 421 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:56,080 he's not willing to just go full money printer rates to 0. 422 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,720 So you would think that him saying he's not going to fire 423 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,640 him would mean that we're going to be more hawkish. 424 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,560 But on that day, you know, basically when he said we're 425 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,840 going to be tighter, like the market's completely ripped, 426 00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:08,240 which to me says that it's actually not money printed that 427 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,040 people are looking for or it's stability because Powell is a 428 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,600 sign of stability. He's not a sign of free money. 429 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,600 And the idea that he was sticking around, you saw a 3% 430 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,480 rally in NASDAQ. So I thought that was kind of 431 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,920 interesting because if you look at the timeline, I feel like 432 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,880 just crypto, we're all still so like wedded to, you know, 433 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,800 sitting around our houses in COVID, during COVID, watching 434 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,880 everything go up 8% per day. And we want that to return. 435 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,560 So, you know, we're thinking, OK, we're just going to 436 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:33,760 replicate that, but with a new cycle. 437 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,000 I just don't think that's kind of the the situation we're in 438 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,560 right now. I tend to agree. 439 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,280 I feel like printing money right now that goes against everything 440 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,480 that that Trump has said that they're they're trying to do 441 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,520 investment right. They're trying to reduce the the 442 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,880 debt you. Know who you know who is 443 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:52,440 printing right now? China. 444 00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:56,440 China big time, and a bunch of other countries as well, Like 445 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,240 the US is posturing that we're at the table with China, while 446 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,200 China's just publicly saying there's no negotiation talks 447 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:04,640 happening. Which is a huge. 448 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,640 Huge divergent in I think just people puffing their chest in 449 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,080 different areas. But like it's clear China's 450 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,480 ready to Duke this out. Like I think just this morning 451 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,920 they injected was it CN¥600 billion, which is like $82 452 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,080 billion aiming to provide. They, they, they want to make 453 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,520 sure that the the banking sector has plenty of liquidity to to 454 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,080 wait this out and they're ready to print and ensure that a lot 455 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,320 of their folks are in decent positioning over the next call 456 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:34,840 it six months, a year, however long. 457 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,840 They want to fight this out scary. 458 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,360 It's it's concerning, I think. The narrative that that I'm 459 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:45,760 seeing out of this China's printing, buying gold, selling 460 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:51,240 U.S. dollars, perhaps buying digital gold, I haven't seen as 461 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,600 much of, of that, but it would certainly be in line. 462 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:59,160 Or perhaps that enables more confidence from the sovereign 463 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,000 wealth funds from these institutions, from these new 464 00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:06,880 strategy competitors which are spinning up to start building 465 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:12,280 these crypto treasuries. James, I'm curious kind of maybe 466 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,160 going one step further. I wanted to talk trends. 467 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,120 I think we've talked this macro picture, you know, 20 minutes 468 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:21,440 now. I feel like there there's some 469 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,200 things shifting in the crypto space. 470 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,560 I feel like we're we're seeing some new things start to happen, 471 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,320 some new trends. I'm curious what jumps out to 472 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:35,920 you. And I, I feel like right now 473 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,840 it's just such a heavy liquidity fight. 474 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,360 But obviously the RWA space that we've talked about quite a bit 475 00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:45,040 has been one of the massive emerging trends. 476 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,800 If you look at a company like figure who's putting, you know, 477 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,880 billions of dollars in, in Helocs on chain, you know, you 478 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,480 have Deloitte writing an entire thesis on this. 479 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,160 We're coming off the backs of the Digital Asset Summit where 480 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,080 all the major players were really pushing this whole 481 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,880 concept of RW as right RW as are not new. 482 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,000 They were, they've been around since I've been in crypto and 483 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,600 that was around 20/14/15 when people were talking about 484 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,280 putting your home on chain and your car on chain and everything 485 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,440 will be on chain. And it really never 486 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,760 materialized. I think the first wave of RW as 487 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,080 were these small to medium business loans from like Maple 488 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,520 Centrifuge, some of the other players and then you sort of saw 489 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,920 that die out. It's kind of living around a 490 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,000 bit. Goldfinch was in there as well, 491 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,720 but then they started to see default risk there. 492 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,320 There's there's a bunch of problems with that. 493 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,440 And, and now what you're seeing is a lot of private credit come 494 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,120 on chain. And that's the new darling child 495 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:47,280 in the RWA space. And So what does that mean? 496 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,200 You see folks like Apollo, you see KKR, they, they run these 497 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,680 giant private credit books, whether it be private credit, 498 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,920 debt, infrastructure, there's tons of different instruments 499 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,560 that they do. And a lot of folks are thinking, 500 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,000 OK, RW as are coming on chain, they're going to put these 501 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,680 different strategies on chain. But degens aren't going to be 502 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,600 the customers of these different assets. 503 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,800 And I think that's where folks get confused with them because 504 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,840 folks like this will never work. Degens won't buy it. 505 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,600 That's not exactly what it will look like. 506 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,160 So when you think of how this works, there's the capital 507 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,680 formation component, there's the actual underlying asset that 508 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,200 that capital flows into, and then there's capital 509 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,720 distribution, right? This strategy made some money. 510 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,440 We need to pay out our investors. 511 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,360 The tail ends are where we're going to see crypto use the most 512 00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:40,240 upfront because now you can basically set up either either 513 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,240 sort of via automated via smart contracts or ease of capital 514 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,600 formation on chain. But then just utilizing stable 515 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,160 coins, you're now reducing your fees for capital formation and 516 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,000 capital distribution by 100 plus bits. 517 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,840 And when you're doing tons of these deals, that matters over 518 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,840 time. So I think folks are now 519 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,440 realizing we can use crypt, blockchain, rails and stable 520 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,800 coins to create huge efficiencies in our operations. 521 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,800 And look, Apollo's large investment into Plume is a, is a 522 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,960 huge signal to that, to that thesis. 523 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,320 So this is one of the areas, as, as you know, we talk about this 524 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,600 almost every Tuesday. It's one of the areas that on 525 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,720 the early stage venture side, you know, I look for companies 526 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,480 that are building and doing this and probably talk to three to 527 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,160 five a week building in this space. 528 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,840 And I think it's one of the the hot areas. 529 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,080 The problem I'll point out here, you know, from the retail side 530 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:39,160 and the investor side, it's where will appreciation from the 531 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,920 investor standpoint fall? Will it be at the protocols 532 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,320 issuing the private credit, private debt? 533 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,080 Will it be at the specific block chains that are actually, you 534 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,040 know, coordinating all these efforts? 535 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,400 Or will it end up being the public companies like your KKRS 536 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,880 and your Apollo's who are now gaining the huge efficiencies by 537 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,320 issuing these products on chain and saving a bunch of money that 538 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,600 way? So I know that's a lot, but 539 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,480 that's kind of where my head's at with this space. 540 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,360 It is a lot, but, and this is clearly one of the the biggest 541 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,960 macro trends happening in crypto, it's going to take time 542 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,120 to play out, but we're seeing more evidence of it on on a 543 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,840 weekly basis. So we'll stay close to it. 544 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,640 We won't have time to get into it today, but on Tuesday's show, 545 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,320 save your thoughts, we got to talk about Coinbase trying to 546 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,080 stop the Genius X stable coin bill and if we think that's 547 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:30,200 going to be a positive or negative. 548 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,360 So that was a bit of a surprise. We haven't talked about it on 549 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,480 this show. TLDR, they think they're only 550 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,120 going to be able to get one crypto bill through Congress 551 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,800 this year and they want a broader bill than this current 552 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,480 act. So we'll see if they're able to 553 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,120 make that happen. Another trend I want to talk 554 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,680 about quickly, and Sam, maybe I'll throw this one to you, is 555 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:57,440 out of Metamask and this broader trend of account of abstraction 556 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,200 and abstracting away different aspects of the user experience 557 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,160 on chains. The news out of Metamask 558 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,160 yesterday, you, you, they, they announced this a while ago. 559 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,400 It's officially real. Now you don't need ETH to do 560 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,520 transactions using them at a mask on Ethereum. 561 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,880 Now they will use what tokens you have as and they will make 562 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,720 it your gas token effectively behind the scenes, as I 563 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:26,120 understand it, they'll be converting it to ETH for gas and 564 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,080 they're also enabling you to choose whatever default gas 565 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,320 token you want. So if you want to always operate 566 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,480 on USDC, on Ethereum, now you can do that. 567 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,720 I think one of the immediate questions that comes to mind 568 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:42,520 when people sees this is what does that mean for Ethereum, for 569 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,840 ETH? Curious if you have a take on 570 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,160 this. I have a couple takes here. 571 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:53,680 First of all, this problem is one that I dealt with today and 572 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,320 the like doing transactions on Polygon where you got to get 573 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,840 money over there, You got to figure out how to get the matic 574 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,600 to, to pay the gas. You got to figure out like it is 575 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,560 extremely difficult. Like I've had a lot of time for 576 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:10,240 I'm pinging friends to be like, hey, can you send me $6 of 577 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,720 whatever into this address so that I can buy this NFT or 578 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,520 whatever. Like it's, it's a really clunky, 579 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:23,720 awkward user experience and I'm old and I'm not like the the 580 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,560 perfect demographic for doing this stuff, but I'm pretty high 581 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,280 up there. I work full time in crypto. 582 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,320 I'm pretty high up there for should be able to figure this 583 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,120 stuff out. And even for me, it's incredibly 584 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,880 difficult. So the challenge of like getting 585 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,280 in today, like I had money on base and I just wanted to, I 586 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,280 wanted to put it into some stable stuff. 587 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,880 Do we lose him? Same with OSHA Dane. 588 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,760 Yeah, yeah. Keep cooking. 589 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,360 Yeah, so this is like a serious problem to fix. 590 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,440 So I personally think this is great. 591 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:04,920 Obviously it has to be done well. 592 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,560 You know, you don't want to end up like realizing you paid some 593 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,160 absurd rate to move your pengu to pay for your gas and Arbitrum 594 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,120 or something like that. So if they, you know, you got I 595 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,480 got to like it. Feel like there's potential bugs 596 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,480 in here where it could be like, but if assuming that it's done 597 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,000 well, this feels very useful. What does this mean for ETH 598 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,120 prices? Probably nothing like I I like, 599 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,880 I don't think this is like a driver for ETH prices, but I 600 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,320 think it's like a nice to have usability factor. 601 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,400 What is a driver for each prices? 602 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,960 FOMO, man, I mean, these are it's a meme coin. 603 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,920 Like maybe people are going to hate me. 604 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,080 I mean, it's very hard to back into a hundreds of billions of 605 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,280 dollar valuation for something like any of this. 606 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,960 Like none of this stuff really does the cash flow generator 607 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,600 like back what it is. They're all culture coins and 608 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,640 like vibe coins and FOMO coins. And like, you know, and I think 609 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,560 with ETH, we had this really great narrative that Bitcoin was 610 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,200 going to rally because of the Trump administration. 611 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,000 It did ETH was the the next one to go because it was the only 612 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,360 other one with an ETF. And that was like, so Bitcoin 613 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,240 would rally, then Eastwood rally because that was what American 614 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,280 retail had access to and easy access to. 615 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,120 And that thesis just, you know, maybe it played out for a little 616 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:13,800 while, but it's not showing legs. 617 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:15,720 And I think people are like struggling to figure out what 618 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,880 the next thesis is because at the end of the day, hundreds of 619 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,400 billions of dollars, you know, I think it's very hard to back 620 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,160 into a fundamental backing for that. 621 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,320 So it's very vibe based and when vibes go down, it becomes 622 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,400 harder. I will say this. 623 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,800 I, you know, I, I every night I do, I do a once a week chess 624 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,400 lesson with a guy in Ukraine and I pay him 35 USDC for the hour 625 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,160 chess lesson and he pings me. He said, Hey, I moved it all to 626 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,840 ETH. So that's, that's my warm boy. 627 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,800 She's like, yeah, exactly. He's like, I took, I took the 628 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,760 last 35 bucks a week. Fine. 629 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,680 So man, maybe maybe Ukraine or he lives in Slovakia, maybe 630 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,480 Slovakia in retail is like, you know, 11 indicator. 631 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,360 But yeah, I, I don't, I, I think the story for Ether is often 632 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,640 like next best story after Bitcoin in the FOMO right world, 633 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,720 because FOMO, which has all this stuff and that just hasn't been 634 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:03,960 playing out. So people are like, all right, 635 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,680 what's next? Jeeves, you, so you're, you're 636 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,400 the wealth manager you're talking to. 637 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,880 Is he just 2% Bitcoin and and no exposure or anything else? 638 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,760 Just Bitcoin, he thinks it's like a nice, nice gold head. 639 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,600 She thinks he's just he's he's actually he said last night that 640 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,280 he was more bullish Bitcoin than gold long term. 641 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,560 And I love that. You know one thing, Sam, to your 642 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,920 point, I, I pointed this data out to Tyler earlier this week. 643 00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:33,760 You know, Artemis Mando, I saw you using it before. 644 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,320 Love this platform when you start to look at going back to 645 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,800 just like it's narrative focused, you know, Artemis has 646 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,239 this great thing when you look at projects, you can sort the 647 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,080 market cap by revenue. So they they create a ratio on 648 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:55,520 this and man, one of the top ones here trading at a 49,000 X 649 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,960 Ripple, Yeah. And the theory I'm starting at 650 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:06,200 2300 X Swede at 2500. XI mean this is the yeah, take 651 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:07,840 it or leave it. I don't know how accurate this 652 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,080 data is, but I think it's interesting when you come here 653 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,200 and look at these multiples, it's just one piece of data in a 654 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,880 much larger picture. But man 49,000 X that's. 655 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,520 But where does Bitcoin trade? I think XRP is just a Bitcoin 656 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,600 now. Like people who own it, do they 657 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:32,360 even care if it has a use case? Like I think they in 20 years, 658 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,840 if Ripple doesn't have a use case, I don't think the people 659 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:39,320 who own will care. It's like this Bitcoin community 660 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,920 of just like this is our currency XRP army. 661 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,040 I think Ripples in a great little spot there because it's 662 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,400 got that and not many others do like ETH. 663 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,720 I know it sounds ridiculous, but everyone ETH is a professor who 664 00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:56,840 is like, oh, we were trying to build this at the revenue and 665 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,440 the revenues gone wrong. You need more left curve. 666 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,680 This is going to 500 trillion people in your community and 667 00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:08,400 Earth doesn't have that. It doesn't have any meme value. 668 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,240 Um, it doesn't. It's not seen as the currency. 669 00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:16,560 It's seen as a as a PE multiple and that's what where it has 670 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,640 gone wrong. And the same thing with NFTS. 671 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,880 The minute people start trying to build fundamental valuations, 672 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,640 you know you're fucked because these numbers are just way too 673 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,760 high. Like, you know, it's like 674 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,160 Clonex. Clonex cost $80,000 and they're 675 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,400 sending people shoes. Even if let's just say they were 676 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:30,680 free. They weren't free, but let's 677 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,920 just say they were free. No pair of shoes is going to 678 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,600 ever justify an $80,000 PFP. It has to be about the vibes, 679 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,480 the FOMO, and the narrative. That's it. 680 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,080 I mean, the interesting thing is ETH is the only for me. 681 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,120 ETH is the only actual real currency that ever existed in 682 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,960 crypto because I think of crypto punks and born apes in terms of 683 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,240 their ETH prices. It's like the only time where 684 00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:55,640 crypto actually broke through and people started to really in 685 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,000 their brain fully calibrate an asset in terms of their 686 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,240 cryptocurrency prices. As opposed to like, I'm never, I 687 00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:04,120 couldn't tell you how many Bitcoin I bought my house for. 688 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,080 I can only tell you how many U.S. dollars I bought my house 689 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,600 for, but I know exactly how many ETH I bought each of my crypto 690 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,440 punks for. So it's interesting, it's 691 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,160 actually kind of broken through in the one way we all want these 692 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,040 things to do, which is that assets actually start people 693 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:17,840 start to see the world in terms of those assets. 694 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,320 I don't think it's anything's ever done that other than ETH. 695 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,880 But again, you know, when you're dealing with a multi $100 696 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,520 billion valuation like that ain't it's just not there. 697 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,040 I, I, I disagree. I think the meme value in like 698 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,760 the not the meme's the wrong word, but like the cultural 699 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,000 value, the cultural appreciation. 700 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,680 I don't think it like it's like a dead horse. 701 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,840 I think it could. I think it could have another 702 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,520 gallop. It's just it's very hard to 703 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:41,880 predict the the winds of culture. 704 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,040 One last really quick Ripple thought on this one. 705 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,520 So going back to the soft data, whenever I'm in the sauna, 706 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,680 people are generally talking crypto and other stuff. 707 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,480 Ripple comes up more than any other currency. 708 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,120 And I always just naively ask people like what what does it 709 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:58,560 do? Like what's the purpose? 710 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,080 What what do you use it for? And confidently, every single 711 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:07,600 person answers it the same way. It's replacing Swift A. 100% I 712 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,720 got I have a guy on my hockey team, my hygienist, my kids 713 00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:13,040 tennis coach, and now the chess instructor. 714 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,840 Those are my 4 examples. All four, two of them are all in 715 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,840 on ripple and they they say it's replacing Swift. 716 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,160 Like this narrative is 8 years old. 717 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,280 It hasn't evolved at all, but that's still what they're doing. 718 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,360 That's what I'm saying. All four of them. 719 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,760 All four say Bitcoin is too expensive for them to buy. 720 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,440 I think that's. In 20 years, they'll say the 721 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,680 same thing it's going to replace. 722 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,160 Not to make progress on this front. 723 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,880 And like, that can just continue to be the narrative, folks. 724 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,200 To me and I I hate to say it, I'm going to say the most anti 725 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,840 crypto thing ever. We are not early this narrative 726 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,080 has been around for 10 years. If this were real we we would 727 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,440 see progress like this Is not like a lot of these techs like 728 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:55,440 YouTube and crypto are the same age. 729 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,320 Crypt YouTube feels like a dinosaur product, like people 730 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,120 are on YouTube, but you know, it's like not even where the 731 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,200 cool content creators are going. Like a lot of stuff is not 732 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,000 early, but Ripple is definitely not early for hints that this is 733 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,160 a real use case to be showing up.