1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:06,600 Good morning, good morning GMGM folks. 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,600 Welcome to another episode of FOMO. 3 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:15,400 Our day is Monday, February 17th. 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:22,400 It is present day all day in the USA. 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,560 We were almost going to be off for today, but we could not be 6 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,160 off today. Folks, there is a famous quote. 7 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,520 There are decades where nothing happens and there are weeks 8 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:38,400 where decades happen. And this week slash weekend was 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,520 a decade moment for crypto, or at least the meme coin sector. 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,200 That's certainly how it feels here. 11 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,960 This morning we had a scandal that reached a president of one 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,720 of the largest countries in the world that has rocked the entire 13 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,440 crypto ecosystem and has rocked the Argentinian stock market. 14 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,160 The impacts are wide and the story is getting deeper by the 15 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:00,760 hour. We are going to break it all 16 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,720 down on today's show. No Faroque, sadly, he is out in 17 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:07,840 Asia. I think Mando is going to be 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,240 joining us. He's not on just yet. 19 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,800 Want to hear from him? He broke down the story this 20 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,280 morning, but I've got Logan on with me to Crypt Rider, 21 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,080 previously editor in chief over at Secretary. 22 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,680 Logan GM How are you feeling after this weekend? 23 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,320 Hey, good morning Tyler. How am I feeling? 24 00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:30,400 My my head is in a a mess of chaos and frenzy, yet I don't 25 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,360 know how else to describe it. It's been a wild, wild what? 26 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:38,720 Last 486072 hours? It's just been bonkers. 27 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:40,840 No, no other way to describe it really. 28 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,480 Bonkers indeed. We've got Mando now and the 29 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,280 shirt is on. I need it this morning. 30 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,560 Mando, Jim, how are you? I'm doing good man. 31 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,640 How are you? I'm doing good. 32 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,840 I think I might have aged another year this this weekend, 33 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,960 but I posted this last night. I feel like this whole situation 34 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:01,720 went so fast and we'll get into it in a second. 35 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,000 It feels like we're already starting to maybe come out the 36 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:10,000 other side of this thing. Like it was anger and depression 37 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,880 and now it's almost like some of the vibes are starting to flip a 38 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:14,840 little bit and we actually might see a path out of this. 39 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,920 So we'll talk about that, folks. What are we going to talk about 40 00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:20,920 on today's show? Well, I think we got to start 41 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,880 with the the Libra scandal. It was the story of the weekend, 42 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:28,760 arguably the story of the year, maybe even the cycle, what 43 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,440 happened, who's involved, the coffee zilla interview and then 44 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,080 market impact. What happens now? 45 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:35,680 What happens to Seoul? What happens to ETH? 46 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,240 What happens to the meme coin sector? 47 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,360 We'll get into all of that. Plus we got to talk, share some 48 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,120 positive news. There were several actually 49 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,560 really positive macro bullish headlines on Friday that have 50 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,880 already been totally forgotten about. 51 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,200 We also got some big news out of Kaito this morning. 52 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,320 It looks like that Kaido AirDrop might be as soon as this week. 53 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,760 So some surprising acceleration from that team. 54 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,480 So there is a lot to get into before we do that. 55 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,280 Shout out to our partners. 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Who is the man Macro Daddy of 68 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,840 the land. Can you dig it? 69 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,720 Yeah, GM everyone. So it has been a bit of a 70 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,520 weekend. I actually was kind of checked 71 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,040 out this weekend. I came back from Paris. 72 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:09,600 As I was landing, the Argentina coin dropped and then it kind of 73 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,360 was pretty. By the end of my taxi to my 74 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,000 house, it was clear that it was already like semi rugging. 75 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:22,720 And then I just like occasionally went back on CT 76 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,880 this weekend. So I, I, I did largely miss like 77 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:28,520 the back and forth and the drama, which is why I did like 78 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,200 ATLDR today. But it's, it's very, very tough 79 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,360 to separate kind of them even the macro move today from this 80 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,200 because it's AUS holiday. So obviously there's not a lot 81 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,440 going on in macro. There's there's some light stuff 82 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,080 going on. Like, it does feel as though, 83 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,560 you know, the Ukrainian situation is kind of coming more 84 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,440 to a head slash resolution on 1/2. 85 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:59,400 You have the US and potentially Putin trying to negotiate this 86 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,680 kind of separate to Europe and Ukraine. 87 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:07,160 And then you have Europe essentially trying to reorganize 88 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,960 right now to have a say in what's going to happen. 89 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,200 There's been a lot of talk about them potentially putting troops 90 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:18,320 in Ukraine. And that one's just kind of, 91 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,640 it's coming to a head though, basically Ukraine, like it's 92 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,080 very, very clear that we're going to have some sort of AI. 93 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,680 Wouldn't know if it's going to be a resolution, but things are 94 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,600 starting to get done, which is going to be an interesting one. 95 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:39,240 And even Argentina stock index is down 7 or 6 or 7% on the back 96 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,600 of what's going on today with this Libra coin. 97 00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:46,880 But elsewhere, it's like, it feels like a bit of a, a non 98 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,320 event in macro. There's some big raises going on 99 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,760 in AI, it looks like, but like this week's very quiet from, 100 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,840 from even from a, from a data standpoint. 101 00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:57,720 We get FOMC minutes on Sun on Saturday. 102 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,320 I think it's a German election, but largely it's, it's a, it's a 103 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,840 very quiet week, which means we can just kind of talk about 104 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:08,360 crypto a lot this week, apart from some of those geopolitics 105 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,360 stuff and, and, and like different leaders meeting each 106 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,480 other. But yeah, this, this coin 107 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,440 happened on Friday. And obviously a big rug. 108 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:20,840 Obviously, maybe I won't go into all the details of it, but the 109 00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:23,760 ramifications have really been that a lot of people calling to 110 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,960 the end of like the Seoul casino, a lot of bearish takes 111 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,920 on Solana. It looks like Solana is down 112 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,040 about 1010% since I got out of that taxi ride. 113 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,480 It was over 200 then and it's now a decent amount lower than 114 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,280 that and kind of hanging out in the mid one 80s at the moment. 115 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,520 ETH is is higher. So a lot of people moving into 116 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,480 ETH. You obviously have the unlock 117 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,160 coming up for or have a few unlocks during these months, 118 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:50,640 which people are also taking advantage of. 119 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,960 And but it it feels as though the main thing is just been a 120 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,200 bit of a sentiment shift, like the casino is a little bit 121 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:01,480 rigged, whereas I think pump fun, you know, the vibe of pump 122 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,440 fun since the start has been like fair launches, you know, 123 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,040 this sort of stuff. And even with if like team 124 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,120 members or in that sense insiders got in the sense of 125 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:18,040 like the rugging here seems seems pretty high and it seems 126 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:23,680 kind of institutional levels of like ringing at several levels. 127 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,240 And I think people have been really annoyed about the whole 128 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:32,240 like hyper rotation meta when it's clear that like this stuff 129 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:33,600 has been going on at the same time. 130 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,600 So I just think like a lot of people have just bit have just 131 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,880 come out of this weekend being like, right, I don't want to be 132 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,640 involved in Solana anymore just because it's just a gambling 133 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:46,320 Jane and I've had enough of gambling because I've been 134 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,800 losing money for too long. So a lot of movement, it feels 135 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:58,000 like away from that into Eve BNB Bitcoin and part of that is 136 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,960 matched up is matched up with with some positive developments 137 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:06,160 for those other majors. So you've had Bitcoin Abu Dhabi 138 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,520 revealed that they have a large amount of of Bitcoin. 139 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,080 This is a this is a sovereign wealth fund with with Billy and 140 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,960 hundreds of billions of dollars potentially to invest. 141 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:24,360 You've had you have obviously, like I said, the the ETH 142 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,200 unlocks, sorry, the Solana unlocks. 143 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,440 But there's been some talk at least from ETH side about 144 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:34,120 increasing gas limits and just a resolution to some of the SEC 145 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,400 cases against people like Coinbase unit swap that there's 146 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,600 a movement even for that for XRP as well too, pretty, pretty 147 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,960 clearly at the moment. So maybe some of the fuds 148 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,080 surrounding some of the other changes is alleviating at the 149 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,320 same time that people are getting annoyed about the Solana 150 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,000 casino. So I don't know how long this 151 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,120 has last. Generally, I, I'm not, I don't 152 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,200 think this is a nail in the coffin for Solana, but I think a 153 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,000 lot of people have lost a lot of money. 154 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,800 And this is this leaves a really bad taste in the mouth for for a 155 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,800 lot of people to the extent that they kind of are looking for 156 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,200 trades where they can just set and forget it now for a little 157 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,120 bit. And there's not a lot of that 158 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,760 on, on Solana. Like Solana was the hyper 159 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,880 rotation chain, which you can make a lot of money on. 160 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,280 But like now people are just completely giving up on that. 161 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,160 It feels like and, and, and, and moving on. 162 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,000 So it'll be interesting to see how this one develops. 163 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,000 The bigger the biggest movers on the back of this have have been 164 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,760 ETH, but also some of the like the legacy ETH memes. 165 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,280 So like MO Mog is up a decent amount today. 166 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:38,080 Pepe's up. Some of the BNB memes have been 167 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,440 doing slightly better, but that that's what I've that's what 168 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,840 I've generally seen is interesting to see like money, 169 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,360 even like the more D Gen. money is is flowing in there. 170 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:50,320 And then for majors, it seems to be seems to be ETH ETH is the 171 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,880 the main outperformer, although, although BN BS doing decently 172 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,720 well too. So yeah, I I don't know whether 173 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,720 how this is this one's going to develop from here. 174 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:04,640 I reckon we'll hear a lot more, but but this doesn't feel again 175 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:09,680 like a cycle top to me. This feels like a is Solana 176 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:14,160 still the trade of the rest of the cycle rather than a nothing 177 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:19,320 about nothing about the flows again, stable coin usage, 178 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,840 general usage of the blockchain, even the way the market is 179 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,080 reacting right now where it's not like everything's dumping. 180 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,800 Like if this is FDX, everything would have dumped, right? 181 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:28,920 And it's not. It's not. 182 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,240 In fact, I think crypto total market gap is probably pretty 183 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,560 much the same as where it was at the start of the weekend, which 184 00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:41,240 tells you that like it's really just a reassessment of of where 185 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:46,480 we are and what to earn. Yeah, I think that's spot on. 186 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,120 And I want to get into that the downstream market impacts of 187 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:51,720 this. I think, Amanda, we have to talk 188 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,400 a little bit more about what happened with with this story. 189 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,000 So you actually did quite a nice job summarizing this. 190 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:00,600 So I was curious how plugged in you were this weekend. 191 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:01,880 It felt like maybe you were unplugged. 192 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,720 I was going to be unplugged. Yeah, it was a good weekend to 193 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,040 be unplugged. You didn't age as much as the as 194 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,520 the rest of us. So effectively, kind of what 195 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,760 happened, they're starting to be growing chatter about this 196 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:19,280 Argentina coin launching on Friday and then. 197 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,640 Have you heard about it? I had not heard a single word, 198 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:26,440 but I was in Paris, so. I had one chat group say that 199 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,000 they had heard rumors of some kind of Argentina coin and that 200 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:35,320 was early Friday afternoon. No other details beyond that but 201 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,040 but that right there shows you how wide this one was. 202 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,520 Because like I am not a well connected trenches. 203 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,680 So like this was a very public rumor at this point in time. 204 00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:52,240 It was Valentine's Day. So I went on stage for Friday 205 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,200 actually a little bit. It's Valentine's Day. 206 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:56,320 Actually, the markets were pumping on Friday. 207 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,200 Like hype was over 27, like Fort coin was up. 208 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,520 Like a lot of the, the tokens were green And like it felt 209 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,840 like, OK, maybe we're starting to round the, the bottom on some 210 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:12,280 of the, the recent depression and then that the Libra coin 211 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,160 launches. I was actually at dinner with 212 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,600 the, the family when this all dropped. 213 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,120 And so I, I kind of missed the two hour window that this all 214 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,000 really ran up and then immediately back down. 215 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,560 So this coin launches, I think Logan, if you were maybe jump 216 00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:32,000 in, I think it it opened basically at a dollar you could 217 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,680 not which was a a billion dollar market cap. 218 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:36,080 You really could not have gotten in much cheaper than that. 219 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,960 I don't think. So you got in there, it ran as 220 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,240 high as four. And then like you can see that 221 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:47,320 this is the one hour chart. So in the second hour of trading 222 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,360 it already went from 2:50 down to to sub $1.00. 223 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,000 So within the first two hours, anyone who bought was already 224 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,960 down on the token. And you kind of lay out some of 225 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,800 the events here. So Malay, the president of 226 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,600 Argentina, tweeted about it. I think that the idea of the 227 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,920 token was to help fund business development in Argentina. 228 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,520 People started kind of rallying behind the, the 'cause even 229 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,400 though there's a lot of questions about why you would 230 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:21,000 crowdfund in via a meme coin like this, there were some loud 231 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,680 voices on the timeline who were promoting this. 232 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,280 And then, you know, quickly things started to go South. 233 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,440 Malay tweeted again that he had nothing to do with this. 234 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,880 And that's what really effectively killed the, the 235 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:37,920 token. And then like the, the rest of 236 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,560 the, the weekend, the, the story just really got deeper. 237 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:48,760 So it seems like this Kelsey or ventures Hayden Davis person 238 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,320 deep into it. He was kind of was Portnoy the 239 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,200 one who exposed him, you know, for the first time. 240 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,760 I don't think so. Portnoy protected his own ass 241 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:00,240 there. Really. 242 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,160 Right? Seems very, very clear that he 243 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,560 told one side of the story and then it turns out he was 244 00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:13,080 reimbursed $5,000,000. Like that's wild to not to like 245 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,040 not say that bit of the story when he when he tries to 246 00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:18,320 describe that he was the good guy in all of this. 247 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,440 Yeah, so, so Saturday was all spent just trying to unpack 248 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,320 this. It was a lot of speculation, 249 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,200 like, OK, who were the insiders who was involved in this? 250 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,200 And then Portnoy comes out Sunday morning. 251 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:30,920 He's like, hey, you guys want to hear a story? 252 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,440 And he runs up the spaces and and tells his side of the story. 253 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,880 Effectively he was told about the token because he was 254 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,920 actively researching who'd potentially help him launch his 255 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:49,560 own, he had info about it, he traded it on the gun and he lost 256 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,760 and he was reimbursed $5,000,000 from Hayden. 257 00:14:54,200 --> 00:15:01,480 He also was offered tokens to promote Libra, which he denied 258 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,920 because he wanted to be able to in the post disclose that he was 259 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:07,920 being paid and they didn't want him to do that. 260 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:13,960 So he said he, he he could not do that, which some have kind of 261 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,600 pointed to, to Portnoy, you know, putting him on a pedestal 262 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,920 as the only honest person in the trenches. 263 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:24,720 I think perhaps that's a, a side conversation path we could go 264 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,960 down. But that's really what kind of 265 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:32,240 to blew the lid off all this. So Portnoy was the the first one 266 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:37,400 to really speak up, I would say. And then this basically everyone 267 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,360 immediately realized, OK, there were insiders who got tokens. 268 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,800 There were insiders who knew about this before. 269 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,880 And then what happened last night, coffee Zilla landed an 270 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,040 interview with Hayden. I have actually not had a chance 271 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,640 to listen to this. It dropped last night after I, I 272 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,560 went to bed and I was busy this morning not able to, to catch up 273 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,760 on it. But I think Hayden effectively 274 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,360 told the the whole story. I listened to it. 275 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,600 I listened to it all. Yeah. 276 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,560 What were your takeaways? Oh, yeah, you wrote about it, 277 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,840 too. He missed the sniping. 278 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,640 He still has $100 million, which he's kind of using as leverage 279 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,200 here. What are your takeaways, Mano? 280 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,080 I mean a lot of this stuff I think if you're not familiar 281 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,200 with with meme coins will be shocking. 282 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,480 Like the whole like, oh, he bought a ton of the supply at 283 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:32,440 the same time. I feel like most people in in 284 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,040 meme coins kind of know that's going on. 285 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,160 Maybe not to the extent I think the shocking stuff was that this 286 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,360 appears to have been a repeat a group that was like a repeat 287 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,520 offender, right? Repeat offender, some of the 288 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,120 biggest coins. So he was involved. 289 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,200 He said it's basically he was involved in millennia and that 290 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:55,120 they exited basically, he says. And then that wallet has since 291 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:59,800 been since been linked by bubble maps to a bunch of other rugs, 292 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,520 which is kind of what I saw the moment it came out. 293 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,119 I remember like a lot of people say, hey, this wallet, this 294 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,359 deployer wallet's been linked to like tons of rugs. 295 00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:13,079 If you remember, like that was like the first bit of thought it 296 00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:15,480 was like, hey, he's look into this deployer wallet. 297 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,240 And then the other thing is it is the bit about Trump. 298 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:26,440 So he said that people have been asked to had been able to get in 299 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,240 that $500 million. I don't know if that's Mark 300 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:33,600 Current or, or FTV out of dinner, which kind of matches 301 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:34,880 up. Like we knew there was those 302 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,000 dinners beforehand. I'd be very unsurprised if the 303 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,440 if like the links there go back to the Bitcoin magazine team, 304 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,440 you know, like the Bitcoin team that we're like organizing all 305 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,360 of those dinners. I would be very unsurprised if 306 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:52,800 that's like the the, the insiders that are being spoken 307 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,120 about here. Then what else is there? 308 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,080 Yeah, just like the brazenness about it. 309 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:05,320 So like the brazenness around the, the idea that some of these 310 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,440 these influencers were getting allocations plus tip offs. 311 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,440 He's basically just like, yeah, that's how that works. 312 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,160 He does point the finger like more broadly at like obviously 313 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,400 the token launching platforms that are like there's a lot of 314 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,080 people who stand to benefit from these coins doing well. 315 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:32,320 And that he also maybe points to the question like, how do we 316 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,040 expect these teams to make money? 317 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,080 So like, how do we expect the Trump team to make money? 318 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,240 How do we expect the, the Argentina coin to make money? 319 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,400 Which I, I actually, you know, like in all of this, I do agree. 320 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,920 Like people want to launch coins and say they make money, right? 321 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:55,440 And we we still don't really if they're going to be the 322 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:56,960 launcher, that's what we don't like. 323 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,240 That's why we've kind of coalesced around this concept of 324 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,600 like adopting a existing coin. Do you know, like that's why 325 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,960 people felt better about Portnoy and all this sort of stuff. 326 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,880 But that's not going to be the case for everyone, right? 327 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,960 So like, if Trump wants to launch a meme coin, he's not 328 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,760 just going to adopt A current meme coin and say, this is my 329 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,920 meme coin. So maybe there isn't a proper 330 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,000 resolution there, but it's very, very clear that if he's trying 331 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,960 to shroud like muddy the waters and be like, hey, there's no 332 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,000 perfect way to launch. The way that they did. 333 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,480 It was like the 100% worst way to launch. 334 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,640 They basically one sided LP and then started producing liquidity 335 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,480 as it went higher. Like that is the number one way 336 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,200 to extract. So the idea that somehow like, 337 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,520 oh, everything is as bad as each other is not the case. 338 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,720 Like the the the way to do it is maybe fund it with stables at 339 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,480 the start or if you are going to do 1 sided then then you have 340 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,440 to. If you're going to reduce the LP 341 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,240 you want to buy some you know as their cell pressures. 342 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,120 If you're going to reduce the LP buy some as the cell pressure or 343 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:06,080 add to the LP as it goes higher. They did the exact way to like 344 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,840 perfectly rug a coin here, which I think is should be noted. 345 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,440 Yeah, that's a big part of why things went South and why this 346 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,160 became such a a scandal. Maybe everything is totally 347 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,560 different, you know, if if they actually market make this a 348 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,840 little more properly. Well, I've seen market makers 349 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,840 come out and say, yeah, this is the exact opposite of how it 350 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,360 should be done. The other thing is like he's 351 00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:35,640 doxed living in LA like this feels very LA vibe. 352 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,960 This feels like an LA rug and part of Behance to like an LA 353 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,800 number of rugs. Let's let's say I I I don't 354 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,240 know, but what's clear to me now is that there's a number of 355 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:54,760 different people who look implicated. 356 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,200 I would say the most obvious ones are are some of alongside 357 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,080 obviously Kelsey, who's like basically putting all his cars 358 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,840 on the table. Everyone else has denied, right. 359 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,920 Everyone else has seen to be like, no, I didn't know anything 360 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:08,280 about it. Or if I did know about it, I 361 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,080 didn't get paid from it or we weren't insiders. 362 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,920 And that includes Meteora, that includes Jupiter, that includes 363 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:21,680 moon shot, that includes that includes all the influencers. 364 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,480 And I think we're going to see a lot of stuff come out now about, 365 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,320 about people who, who not just this, but other ones. 366 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,400 It's it's very, very clear that like there's motivations both 367 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:39,400 from like media organization, people like choose, choose Rich 368 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:45,560 Nick, I'll just Nick nasty Nick all like trying to get 369 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,440 screenshots of like what was said and when and all this sort 370 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,160 of stuff. So I think we're going to we're 371 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,520 going to get a lot of stuff from from different people. 372 00:21:53,520 --> 00:22:01,480 Here it is now, you know, a lot of people made a lot of money on 373 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,600 these coins and it was the same people each time and they aped a 374 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:10,080 disproportionate amount relative to what they ape other things. 375 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,640 Yes. And I think it's now that's more 376 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,760 than now a pattern of behaviour when this now comes out, like 377 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,640 you need to be whiter than white, in my opinion, to, to be 378 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,240 like, I, you know, I, I wasn't involved in any of this. 379 00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:29,160 Like, why were you yoloing $1,000,000 into this coin, 380 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,600 right? Or I don't know how much, but 381 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,040 like, let's say hundreds of thousands. 382 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,280 And then you're, you're saying that that wasn't the case for 383 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,920 like all the other ones. This doesn't really like this 384 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,800 can't have been the only one in my opinion. 385 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,400 Like I think, I think it's now pretty clear what was going on. 386 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,040 And I think people are very, I, I, I think people are 100% 387 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,640 justified to be furious about this, like absolutely furious 388 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:01,480 because the meta was always rotate. 389 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:06,120 There's a new runner each day, same people winning, the same 390 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,920 motivation to get into the coins, like big screenshots or 391 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:16,040 this sort of stuff. And and then it turns out that 392 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,840 like it was completely rigged and people had insider knowledge 393 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,960 or they would maybe like Portnoy was given money, just given 394 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,800 money. I, I, it makes me think that 395 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,320 like, yeah, the people just don't want to buy a new coin. 396 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,800 And and there's people have been feel like they the tables have 397 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,920 been rigged for too long now. That that's the big take away 398 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,440 and Logan, I I want to hear from you here in a second, but this 399 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,520 meme coin game has been going on for a few years. 400 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,880 I mean, technically since Doge, but then like Pepe and Mog and 401 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,240 then I think it really blew up on Solana with whiff starting in 402 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,840 Q 4/20/23. It felt like more of a fair game 403 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,360 for quite some time, but it's felt worse and worse over the 404 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:02,800 last quarter. And this scandal just blew off 405 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,520 the top that in fact, everyone has been playing a rigged game 406 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,000 on at least on these major launches. 407 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:09,920 And people don't want to play a rigged game. 408 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,200 And now they're starting to point fingers at, OK, who was 409 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,560 complicit in the rigged game and who benefited from it the most? 410 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,680 And it seems clear that investigations will go deeper 411 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,320 and and it seems clear that there was a large group of 412 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,320 tokens like we know for sure Melania is involved. 413 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,960 It's clear that Trump was involved the Trump token and 414 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,560 very likely some of the other recent high profile saw a coin 415 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,080 launches. But Logan, curious man, I got to 416 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:40,000 jump in. And Logan. 417 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,240 Slightly. That guy Champtogram was 418 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,360 literally on the board for this fucking group, right? 419 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,120 You remember that guy from NFTS? I'm not familiar. 420 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,880 You don't know champtogram. Champtogram. 421 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:56,600 I think I know what you're talking about, but. 422 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,480 Chelsea, right, like he's like very high influencer friends 423 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:06,000 with them all. Yeah, like it's I think, I think 424 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,160 we're about to find out a lot of stuff because these guys. 425 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,920 The other thing is, if this does turn criminal, then you're going 426 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,080 to find out everything because the one way to yourself from a 427 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,840 criminal trial is to basically start ratting. 428 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,400 And I think that's that's the next stage of this, right? 429 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,440 Is that like this Kelsey guy clearly, clearly has dirt on 430 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,040 everyone. Right. 431 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,280 And he's talking. We've got a Diddy Diddy 432 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,440 situation on our hands, you know we. 433 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,560 Asked about one thing and just jump in here. 434 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,160 Yeah, I was going to say, Mando, to your to your point about 435 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,400 Portnoy speaking up, I mean that that's the the one thing you can 436 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:50,400 say here is that he was the first to willingly chat about 437 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,480 this and sort of kicked off a lot of what has come to 438 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,800 transpire over the course of the last 24 hours in particular. 439 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,320 So for that, I guess a small kudos is owed to sort of getting 440 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,080 the ball rolling here. You mentioned talking about, you 441 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,320 know, just why would you randomly ape this stuff? 442 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,800 I think, you know, when compared to some of these other high 443 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,200 profile launches, this was the most questionable. 444 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,480 Maybe if you disregard the CAR, the Central African Republic 445 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,960 one, this was the most questionable in terms of 446 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,320 legitimacy right out of the gate. 447 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,240 You have the deployer stuff, right, which was highly 448 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,120 questionable. And then also too, if you just 449 00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:31,080 did even a minute of research, like click the website in the 450 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,080 tweet from Malay. The thing about applying for 451 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:38,440 funding is a Google form. The support address is like just 452 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,960 randomly Kip protocol something support@gmail.com. 453 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,320 I mean, these things are are things that typically would have 454 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,800 been major red flags to everyone. 455 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,960 Yet somehow, some way many people allege that they that 456 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,840 this was real right out of the gate. 457 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,960 Like, how are you willing to take that chance that it's real 458 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,360 right out of the gate if you don't know something else? 459 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,040 Just it was, this was crazy, the whole thing. 460 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,520 I mean, I don't need to add too much to summarize the actual 461 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,640 events themselves, but there, there's a lot here and. 462 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:11,840 And everything's going to come out. 463 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,640 Yeah. And I look forward to consuming 464 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,040 that content when it does. That was what jumped out to me. 465 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,680 It's like Banks was gone very publicly defending himself. 466 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:24,200 He said he aged 500,000 on the gun or something along those 467 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,160 lines. And then he, he shared his 468 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,760 thesis that that this would be bigger than the Trump coin was 469 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,560 his upside like what you thought, like this Argentina 470 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:39,680 coin that has a Google form to, to fundraise for businesses was 471 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,520 going to be bigger than the the Trump coin? 472 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,200 I just think, I think a really dangerous precedent had been set 473 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,560 in the last few weeks, you know, over the course of meme coins as 474 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:49,840 well. It's just like the willingness 475 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,480 to engage with things that likely aren't real anyway. 476 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,160 Like we don't care actually if it's real or not. 477 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,440 Like that's a really horrible game to play. 478 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,800 It's actually, it's one of the reasons I didn't do that well on 479 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,440 Trump. It was because I was trying to 480 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,520 figure out if it was real or not, right? 481 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,240 Like as, as a lot of people were like, is this real or not? 482 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,640 I, I'm not willing to take the chance personally. 483 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,560 And I, I didn't gamble on whether it was real. 484 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,000 And then you missed it. It was gone. 485 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,640 And it seems like we all those things just went out the window 486 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,080 there. There was no more caring about 487 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,960 whether it was real or not. If the tweet stayed up for a 488 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:22,760 long enough time. I started to see those things 489 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,920 like, well he also posted on Instagram like we haven't seen 490 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,280 500,000 other accounts get hacked on all social platforms. 491 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,880 Look at the chill guy thing. Like every social platform that 492 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,800 guy owned got hacked. It's just it's really dangerous 493 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,360 bad precedent that hopefully starts to wash itself out with 494 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,080 the rest of this stuff. But just a a wild timeline. 495 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,680 There's a lot of ways we can unpack this, man. 496 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,800 I know you, you've got to run here in a little bit. 497 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,360 So I'm curious for your thoughts on the meme coin market. 498 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,840 Some people are calling it dead forever. 499 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,880 Like I've I've already seen some folks who are a little bit 500 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,600 perhaps more realistic. I kind of like this, this tweet 501 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,920 from Dime here saying basically we were at peak of Mount Stupid 502 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,080 2024. We're now entering the valley of 503 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,000 despair. It does see a path out of it. 504 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,040 I'm I'm curious for your read on where the sector of the market 505 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:17,520 goes near, near term. Yeah, look, I think I think we 506 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:24,000 have to appreciate the the the how the meme market has evolved. 507 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:29,160 Like you just said, originally it was, you know, like die hard 508 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,280 communities or like OG memes. Then it moved into cults, I 509 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,880 would say like the the the ear of Murad. 510 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:41,080 And then it moved into the hyper rotate. 511 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,080 You know, any coin goes after Trump. 512 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:52,400 OK, I, I, I would be unsurprised is if after a period of, of, 513 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,360 let's say just peeling, we, we move back into either one or two 514 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,200 like the, the, the 1st 2. Like I'll be unsurprised if Pepe 515 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,920 does well in a market like this, like genuinely, I'll be 516 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,040 unsurprised if Mog does well, the coins that maybe have been 517 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,080 around for a little bit longer. I can I'll be unsurprised if I 518 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,480 doge did well. Do you know, I still think 519 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,360 people are looking for Bitcoin plus returns. 520 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:22,240 You know, there's no way you have $240 billion of stable 521 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:27,240 coins and bitcoins at 100K And you're telling, you're telling 522 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,720 me that like people are just going to stop trading memes. 523 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,560 This is not the case. But what I do think is that like 524 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,720 maybe the era of, of what we have just seen, which is like 525 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,200 Internet capital markets into buy the coin of the runner of 526 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:47,520 the day into hyper rotation. I, I think that era may be a 527 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:48,880 little bit dead. And I don't think people will 528 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,640 necessarily want to play that. And I think a lot of that is on 529 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,360 Seoul. So I think and and that leads to 530 00:30:54,360 --> 00:31:00,600 questions about Solana use that leads to questions about Sol D5 531 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,200 that leads to question to a lot of stuff like this was a just 532 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,160 the way the the multi layers of scams to this just feels bad. 533 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,920 Like this wasn't just a, you know, melee backed out it it 534 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:20,920 then I unveiled a a layer of Kols and systemic rugging that 535 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,280 just like I think people for like hundreds of millions of 536 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,720 people just do not feel good around. 537 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,680 It seems that some of the this is a legend. 538 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,560 It feels like there are people working at some of the protocol 539 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,600 teams that were perhaps plugged into this. 540 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,320 I'll be very curious if more information on that comes out. 541 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,160 And it's a tricky 1 because like we, I don't, I do think the 542 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,280 protocols need to have the information added like they need 543 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,440 to be ready. Like if we're, if we're thinking 544 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,960 about what are the processes and controls to put in place to fix 545 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,040 this, like we want, I mean, ideally some level of diligence 546 00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:01,400 done from protocols like this as a way, you know, to, to prevent 547 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,640 major, you know, scandals like this. 548 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,960 Now that's a larger debate on like how much onus should be on 549 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,800 them. They have the resources to do 550 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,360 that, so on and so forth. Now you're not talking about 551 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,040 open markets necessarily anymore. 552 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,480 So it's a bit of a longer discussion. 553 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,800 But like the moon shot team, for example, Decrypt had a nice 554 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,160 write up about this. It was eye opening. 555 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,680 Like they borrowed $160 million to have. 556 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,040 A. Moon Pay, sorry, $160 million to 557 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,320 have enough capital on hand to support trading at launch. 558 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,600 Like that makes sense. And they helped facilitate what 559 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,720 was a successful launch. So you can, you can go into the 560 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,840 merits of the, the token itself, perhaps separately, but like 561 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,520 that makes sense to me. It makes sense to me that 562 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,840 Jupiter would have information so they could verify a token 563 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,840 address or not if they're sharing that information with 564 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,080 the outside parties ahead. Of course, that's where where 565 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:55,000 things get really tricky. And I do think it has eroded 566 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,000 some confidence in these protocols. 567 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,320 And we talked about on the show how, you know, one way to play 568 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,160 this market was to play the picks and shovels. 569 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,480 And it's hard to, I, I feel like they're not going to be spared. 570 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,400 You know, if the, if we're going to get a reset in meme coins on 571 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,080 Solana, which I do think we will, it's a question of how 572 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:15,360 long it is. I think that's going to impact 573 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:16,800 the pick and shovel plays as well. 574 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,360 Logan, I feel like you were going to jump in there. 575 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,640 Feel free to. No, I was just, I was just 576 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,240 clarifying on the moon pay thing. 577 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,040 And that was actually it was, it was during the the whole thing. 578 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,160 So it wasn't, you know, necessarily before the launch, 579 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,640 Keith Grossman indicated that he didn't actually know the Trump 580 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,680 coin is coming. But nevertheless, I mean, these 581 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,360 these protocols worked together in that instance to ensure that 582 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,520 things operated smoothly. And I'm totally for them knowing 583 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,040 or at least some of the parties they're knowing and doing as 584 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,200 best as they possibly can to protect consumers. 585 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,160 I'm, I'm totally for that, you know, so someone at Meteora is 586 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,600 probably needs to work with somebody, somebody at Jupiter 587 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:57,960 probably needs to work with somebody. 588 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,040 And they are taking small steps. You saw like the Jupiter organic 589 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:04,680 score thing that they're working on. 590 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,240 It's not perfect. Nothing's perfect. 591 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,440 Nobody has the answer right now and how to do these things in 592 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:14,120 the best possible way. But one thing that can't happen 593 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,520 and should never have happened again, this is all alleged, is 594 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,360 that these people are taking that information that they do 595 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,560 have and they're acting on it, right? 596 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,480 And they're creating advantages for not necessarily themselves, 597 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,480 but their friends or other folks close to them. 598 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,520 And that that's a huge, huge problem. 599 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,679 That's a very simple like, no, no, that unfortunately has 600 00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:38,960 seemingly has gone on for a long, long time. 601 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,760 I think Mando may have said this in the beginning. 602 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,280 It felt like this stuff had probably been happening, not 603 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,520 maybe even related to these coins that we're talking about 604 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,920 today, but like sort of had this sense that insiders were always 605 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,920 winning. But this is just kind of the 606 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,520 unveiling of that in a very, very major fashion that. 607 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,240 OK, yeah, we knew we were playing a rig game before, but 608 00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:02,520 like, the dealer just showed us the rigged cards. 609 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,400 It was the scooby-doo. They pulled the mask off 610 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,280 exactly. Oh who the the scooby-doo bell 611 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,880 on this man. Now before you go, can ETH win 612 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,560 here is very one of the biggest winners. 613 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:18,520 Easily, there's there's an obvious win for for that, in my 614 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,960 opinion. If there's any time for for East 615 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,840 to regain the culture, it's this, if I'm honest, like you 616 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,280 have the Solana unlocks this month, which already made it 617 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,960 look slightly precarious into into what just happened here. 618 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,520 People still want to degen, you know, and I don't think ETH is 619 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,160 the place to degen, but I think in a period where people want a 620 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,600 bit more stability, ETH can win with some of those battles. 621 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,160 Pentoshi is calling for all season. 622 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,840 There's a few voices on my timeline who are continuously 623 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,200 calling for all season. I've seen some folks who said, I 624 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,480 got to go, sorry guys, keep going on the ETH Bitcoin bottom 625 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,600 was is in you look at that chart. 626 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,440 I mean, this is not a great looking chart. 627 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,480 It's hard to to sugarcoat it. I mean, unless you really think 628 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,640 it's just going to go down forever. 629 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,240 It does feel like this could have been an inflection point. 630 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:13,960 So not only did we have like the implosion of the Solana casino, 631 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,080 we have the staking ETFs getting approved. 632 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,680 That was the storyline that was largely kind of brushed under 633 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,680 the rug this past week because of everything else that 634 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,280 happened. And, like, that feels like a big 635 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,000 deal. And, you know, who knows, maybe 636 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,200 the Solana ETF is delayed a little bit because of this 637 00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:39,280 international crypto scandal. Like that could be an impact. 638 00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:42,040 Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm only laughing just because 639 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:43,800 of the absurdity of the situation. 640 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,320 I man, it does feel like, and I don't really hold any. 641 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,800 I, I was making the consensus trade that everybody else was 642 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,760 and it felt like, like, why, why hold the East? 643 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,560 Like what was the point in holding ETH over the course of 644 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,400 the last year or so? I wasn't actively participating 645 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,160 on the chain. I was doing all that everything 646 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:03,880 we were doing right, we were doing on Solana. 647 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:09,520 And that's largely the case, you know, Bill, but the tailwinds 648 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,760 are are there and and quite obvious. 649 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:17,520 You know, the staking ETF stuff, as you mentioned, Trump's own 650 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:22,120 kin buying and building a defy or, you know, whatever you want 651 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,760 to call their world liberty financial on largely via 652 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:31,800 Etherium's rails and you know, acquiring Etherium assets you 653 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,960 have. And then this major, major 654 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,200 narrative shift over the course of the last few days. 655 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,000 It was a big thing for a long time. 656 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,720 You remember months ago founders suggesting that they were moving 657 00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:44,400 from Etherium to Solana or considering watching the thing 658 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,680 on Solana because of, you know, the community, because of the 659 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,160 activity, because of like the warmness that was coming from 660 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,240 these protocols and the founders and they weren't getting that on 661 00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:56,760 Ethereum. And now you've got this point 662 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,600 where it's like, oh boy, there's a chance that some of the the 663 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:05,240 protocols are not operating as faithfully as they should be. 664 00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:08,160 You have participants feeling scorned and burned. 665 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,600 Things might, you know, feel a little greener back on the other 666 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:13,880 side at this point in time. It does feel like you said 667 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,440 inflection point dog, at least from that perspective of 668 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:22,520 sentiment on my timeline, it feels like this weekend was a 669 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,320 major shift towards you know what ETH hasn't rugged us in a 670 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,600 while. And that's that's a. 671 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,640 That's a old faithful. Of course, Bitcoin is is the 672 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,880 real old faithful. But if you think there's going 673 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,920 to be any kind of an old season, it does feel like Ethereum is 674 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,600 probably now back front and center. 675 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,240 Of course, also while we've been talking that Ethan's been 676 00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:46,640 selling off, it hit like 2840 before the show is back down to 677 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,920 2780. So. 678 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:50,320 So who knows how this will play out. 679 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,720 Logan, I we got Mando's thoughts and what what are your thoughts 680 00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:54,400 about? Like are, are memes going to 681 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,240 come back? How soon? 682 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,400 What what's your current like mental model? 683 00:38:58,400 --> 00:38:59,680 You've been in the trenches? A. 684 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,080 Little yeah. I, I, I, I don't think memes are 685 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,880 going anywhere. It's, it's developed its own 686 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,760 ecosystem at at this point. And I think it operates, of 687 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,760 course, it, it's very closely tied to what everything is 688 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,240 happening in macro and is impacted by that. 689 00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:18,680 But it's its own little bubble of activity that's not going 690 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,160 away. And as long as you have things 691 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,200 like pump fun and other token launch pads that make it easy as 692 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,760 possible and, and nearly 0 cost to build tokens, there are going 693 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,880 to be many, many more tokens, millions more tokens created 694 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,640 that are going to be traded by ourselves and everybody else for 695 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,480 the for probably a while. At the very least. 696 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,560 I do think it's going to need a little bit of a reset. 697 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,200 One of the big questions has been how do we keep launching 698 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,240 these? How do we do the big ones, but 699 00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:48,920 also like, how do we just keep launching them to make it fairer 700 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,200 for people? One of the things that both 701 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,760 Coffeezilla, Hayden and I think many, many other folks recognize 702 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,160 and talked about is like there is an unfair advantage beyond 703 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,560 the insider information. There's also an unfair advantage 704 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:04,200 for, you know, the technical acumen and the sniping of 705 00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:06,640 contracts as soon as they're live in the blockchain. 706 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,440 People getting the tokens and astronomical amounts of tokens 707 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,920 prior to anybody's, you know, any real person's. 708 00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:18,280 Opportunity to buy them and creating, you know, just 709 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,360 completely unfair advantages in that way. 710 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,920 And yes, it's a skill issue in some way, right? 711 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,080 I don't know how to do the technical things that those 712 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:29,520 folks are doing using whatever they're using, right to to make 713 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,080 those purchases, whatever you want to call that. 714 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,440 But at the same time, like if you want to create fair launches 715 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,320 and and pre sales, to many people don't think pre sales are 716 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,080 the best fair launch either. Like we got to, we got to find 717 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,760 some other way, find a happy medium of sorts so that it 718 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,560 doesn't feel like only insiders are winning. 719 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,320 Insiders are always going to win, you know, for the 720 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,160 foreseeable future and probably ever. 721 00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:58,200 But like, you got to, you got to shift down the win percentages a 722 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,920 little bit to like, you know, maybe they're not winning 98% of 723 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,480 the share. They're winning like 70% of the 724 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:05,560 share. I I don't know what it is, 725 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,960 Tyler, but we got to do something slightly different 726 00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:11,400 about the token launches to make it a little bit more fair. 727 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,440 Or else this doesn't exist in the same way. 728 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,760 And then you do, I think, go straight back to Murad's list 729 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,440 and and the cult communities, because that's literally the 730 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,400 easiest and at this point in time, probably fairest way to 731 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,160 just kind of back a meme and and feel OK going. 732 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,880 You can't feel OK going to bed with any meme coins right now. 733 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,800 Not on Solana, no way, not a chance. 734 00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:38,560 Maybe, maybe far coin, but like that has not been that has not 735 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,760 escaped the last few weeks. I know it's just starting at at 736 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:44,840 basically this final level of support. 737 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,040 Even Kobe waited on the conversation yesterday, right? 738 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,960 And he said it is a self correcting problem. 739 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,200 And I agree it is a self correcting problem. 740 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,840 He also, you know, says there there are actors here who are 741 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,200 just going to always do this stuff. 742 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,360 And even later on in this post, he even like jokes about 743 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,000 launching a coin and then people someone launched it, people 744 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:15,440 traded it, which just proved that the point that the casino 745 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,200 is is not going away. So I think there's a lot to 746 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:27,200 unpack if, if we're being realistic about all of this, I 747 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,240 see the take that folks are going to rotate to true 748 00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:31,640 builders, you know, more real projects. 749 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:33,200 Of course, I'm, I'm rooting for that. 750 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,440 I, I want that to happen at the same time, like they have to be 751 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,280 priced correctly to where folks think they're going to be able 752 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,600 to get a return on that. And if a new great protocol 753 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:48,320 launches, but if it launches at $3 billion, it's probably not 754 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,880 going to be that appetizing, you know, for the guy who's got 2 to 755 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,880 $3000 to, to play with. Yeah, I think it's naive to 756 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,440 think that that that person isn't going to likely look back 757 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,760 downstream. So I do think that the meme 758 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,280 market will continue to exist. I love Mano's point of perhaps 759 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,640 we can erase the last few or move past the last few 760 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,320 iterations of the cycle where like we're just trading phrases 761 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:18,000 and news events and country coins and perhaps get back to to 762 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:22,160 to the OG days when we're when we're it was actual memes and 763 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,160 you can actually go to sleep and maybe things moved a little bit 764 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:25,680 slower. And then of course the cycle is 765 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,160 going to play out again. So even if we reset, it's silly 766 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,480 to think that we're not also going to do this because this 767 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,400 happened last year. We had Q1. 768 00:43:35,720 --> 00:43:39,360 We saw like with run up to about 3 1/2 four billion. 769 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,000 Then bone came out. Bone was the top the bull off 770 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,440 top weekend. Then Slurf came out and it was. 771 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,040 Small. And again. 772 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,840 It's the descending loops. I mean, it really is none of 773 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:53,160 those things. People are always going to keep 774 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,680 trading those. Next time Elon changes his 775 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,680 handle, people are going to be trading those coins. 776 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,440 And I think it's totally fine to be trading those coins. 777 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:01,760 You just got to know where we're at. 778 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,440 We are at the very bottom loops of those like ephemeral news 779 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,480 event things. You know, we were talking about 780 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,600 this last night that Echo the Dolphin thing that Kobe tweeted 781 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:12,480 about. That would have been a $20 782 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,840 million coin like maybe even 2 weeks ago. 783 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,800 And I think last night, like one of the hundreds that launched 784 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:20,960 made it to like maybe 2 million or something. 785 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,800 Like just know, just know, know where you're at. 786 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,640 I think it's OK to keep trading those if that's what you like to 787 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,720 trade. Like if you're quick to identify 788 00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:31,120 things that are happening in the news or whatever and you have 789 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,520 fun trading that stuff, like the opportunity's there. 790 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:34,880 There's not much of it right now. 791 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,200 There's not a lot to squeeze out of it, but I don't think that's 792 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,040 ever going way. The tokenize everything thing 793 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,520 that much. That cycle continues to chip 794 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,600 away like we everything is getting tokenized in some way or 795 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,280 another right now. It's our attention. 796 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:58,040 And yeah, it's it's it's wow. I would I would love a reset. 797 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,240 I'm tired. Everybody, you know, everybody's 798 00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:04,560 tired of this current iteration of memes. 799 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,400 The one thing about that like ephemeral news headline thing, 800 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,960 which has been a a big piece of this last meta is it the speed 801 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:16,320 at which it operates, you know, and that's that's a part that is 802 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,840 just like really difficult to continue to participate in when 803 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,600 you can't feel like you, you run away that the runner from 1 to 804 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,680 50 million in a day and you miss it. 805 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,680 You can't look away from your phone like that stuff sucks. 806 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,800 I I do hope that stuff's behind us for the most part. 807 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,800 That's the reason why people like the Marad memes and like 808 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,040 the whiffs and the Pepe's because there was you didn't 809 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,240 have to trade it in the first four hours to get in. 810 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:46,200 Like whiff was available for weeks, sub 20, sub 50 million, 811 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,360 even far coin and far coin was at sub 50 for a month. 812 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,520 I mean the the second one up a little bit, but there there's 813 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,840 time. The Marad coins were dead for 814 00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,280 nine months. Go look at the charts like you 815 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,920 could have entered at whatever price you wanted and seen 816 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,120 tremendous returns. I do think that's where we'll 817 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,520 get back to. I think Marat might still be a 818 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,560 big winner in all this, and it's funny, he had all the pitchforks 819 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,880 aimed at him not too long ago. I sort of hope so. 820 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,040 I don't have any of those bags, so maybe I shouldn't hope so 821 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,720 much, but like I kind of at this point sort of hope. 822 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,600 Well, for many reasons, you know, beyond this, right? 823 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,280 He keeps saying everything's going to be higher and whatever 824 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,080 as he keep backing up his timeline like all time highs in 825 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,200 February, all time highs in. Marking all time highs every 826 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,760 month for a little while more out as much as we want that to 827 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,280 happen. SPX is 650 million, MOG is 350, 828 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,240 gig IS300. So these are still fairly high, 829 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,880 Marcus, but of course down a lot from people. 830 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:49,280 We've got a few minutes left in the show. 831 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,320 We did 50 on Libra and rightfully so. 832 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,480 I think there was a big piece of news this morning. 833 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,280 Folks probably have seen this, but Kaido has been the talk of 834 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,760 the town. They had last week. 835 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,360 They introduced their token. The news from this morning was 836 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,920 they've taken the snapshot. Let me try to find the 837 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,920 announcement here. Yeah, snapshot 4 yaps has been 838 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,480 taken 4:00 AM UTC, and they're doing a snapshot for the NFTS 839 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,520 4:00 AM UTC tomorrow. So that's what, 11:00 PM Eastern 840 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,840 tonight. So this will be the, you know, 841 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,000 probably the last big day of trading for those NFTS for for 842 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:32,080 quite some time. What makes this even more 843 00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:36,800 interesting perhaps is in their next tweet that they're talking 844 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,280 about these new pre tge projects going live on their launchpad. 845 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,360 Voting will begin next week integrating Yap votes and Kaido 846 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,320 on chain holding votes. Some folks are saying maybe 847 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,920 those are the votes from the NFTS, but my initial 848 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,560 interpretation of this was does that mean we're actually going 849 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,760 to get these Kaido tokens in the next week? 850 00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,560 So it feels like the TGE could actually be happening. 851 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:05,320 We saw some of the perhaps early info on this cane Leo Canelo, 852 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:10,040 however you want to say it, share this info yesterday, do 853 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,200 some on chain sleuthing. It looks like Kaido is going to 854 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:17,000 be on base 1 billion supply. There's three buckets of tokens, 855 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,360 57 percent, 10% and 33.3%. And folks are starting to 856 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,200 speculate what that actually means. 857 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:26,640 So we do not know that 33% is going to an AirDrop, but it's 858 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:31,000 likely 33% or 10%. It's probably one of those two 859 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:32,840 buggers. And of course we don't know what 860 00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,880 this blitz are in there. Loki, what's your, what's your 861 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:40,360 reactions to, to, to Kaido? We've seen some wild price 862 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,840 speculation going around the timeline this weekend. 863 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,280 Do you think that we're going to get the token this week and and 864 00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:46,320 where do you think it's going to come? 865 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,400 Out yeah, I do I I think you'll get the token. 866 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,000 I don't see any other way to interpret really the on chain 867 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,920 nature of that post. You know, tokens are 868 00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,640 consistently used as governance for or for governance purposes 869 00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,720 and voting and whatever. So it would make a lot of sense 870 00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:05,960 to refer to it in that way. And then, you know, to provide 871 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,280 it, especially if you do a snapshot and, you know, the the 872 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,520 deployment has already been done and and basically confirmed by 873 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,760 is his name. You miss, I'm going to mess up. 874 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:22,120 Yeah, Yeah. So I do think he'll get it this 875 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:23,840 week. The really cool part. 876 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:28,520 I mean, kudos to Kaido in the fact that like, you know, 877 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,400 there's lots to be said about the quality of the tweets and 878 00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,240 the yap earning and all that stuff. 879 00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,120 And I'm a skeptic for much of that as well. 880 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:40,360 But like, the willingness to just kind of do this and not let 881 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,720 it play out anymore has been has been nice. 882 00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:45,880 It was like, what yaps were put out there in early December, 883 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,160 maybe be late November. Yeah. 884 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:52,280 So like a couple months. And it really started to do to 885 00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:56,080 crescendo where people started to farm it much, much harder 886 00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,720 maybe in the last two weeks, at least on my timeline. 887 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,760 And it was becoming overwhelming and overbearing, like the amount 888 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,560 of stupid yap tweets and the yap the same thing happens with 889 00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,320 every AirDrop. You know, I don't blame the 890 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,040 people, but it's the hopeium about like, if it's this, this 891 00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:14,480 is how much you'll earn those things. 892 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:19,360 And you know, probably this was already planned, But if it 893 00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,560 wasn't to put the kibosh on that is a is a real cool move. 894 00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:27,280 So I, I'm excited to see what happens, but I, you know, I 895 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,240 don't have many apps. I think I finished with like 21. 896 00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:32,320 So I wish selfishly, I guess I wish it would have extended out 897 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,160 a little bit more, but I'm not, I'm not mad. 898 00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:35,520 I'm, I'm excited to see what happens. 899 00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:39,320 And I think that's cool that they kind of, you know, shut it 900 00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,600 down in like a A2 month span while it sells. 901 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,840 Many other farming programs have lasted years. 902 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,680 I thought it was going to go at least another month if I'm being 903 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,640 honest. I I want to shout out Ultra for 904 00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:51,280 finding this. So he went through their GitHub. 905 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,800 Again, this is unconfirmed, but he's laid out some speculation 906 00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:56,400 for what he thinks Kaido will be. 907 00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,080 He basically said this is just an early warm up stage. 908 00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,400 They're going to turn into a decentralized data network. 909 00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,040 They're going to monetize it that way. 910 00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,040 And he's laid out how miners and validators will be able to 911 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,040 participate and earn rewards in that ecosystem. 912 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:15,080 Rewards here being Kaido tokens. I still unclear exactly what 913 00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:19,000 what all of this means. And he says they're going to 914 00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:20,840 generate revenue through sponsors, users paying for 915 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:22,840 premium features and search services. 916 00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,240 It's not a stress to me that that people would pay for this 917 00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:28,760 data. Yeah, I I don't think so either. 918 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,600 And actually like as an aside, I was looking up, you know, 919 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,720 decentralized data network, you know, decentralized data Big 920 00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,960 Lots of buzzwords, right. But like GRASS for example is a 921 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,240 big decentralized data protocol if you want to. 922 00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:42,840 Call What kind of data does GRASS? 923 00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,160 So that's your excess Internet bandwidth, right? 924 00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,120 I'm not, I'm not a tech guy here. 925 00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,360 So I might be misinterpreting something and and 926 00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:52,560 misrepresenting it. So I don't mean to, but all I 927 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,680 want to do, relatively speaking, is that this is a decentralized 928 00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:57,080 data. My understanding of it is it 929 00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,360 decentralized data and you're trying to kind of cut out some 930 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,680 middle men, much like Kaido would be doing in this way, if 931 00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:08,560 I'm interpreting that post correctly and rewarding users 932 00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,280 for it as opposed to somebody in the middle, right, That's 933 00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,760 aggregating it. I'm just using this as a frame 934 00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:18,960 of reference, $1.57 billion FTV for something similar. 935 00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:24,080 At least in buzzword, not perhaps in actual, you know, 936 00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:27,120 actionable, technical, whatever, cahoots. 937 00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,360 I don't know. But I looked at that and I, you 938 00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:34,720 know, when I see that and I see all the buzz around Kaido and 939 00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:37,520 then I see those things that are unconfirmed. 940 00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,840 Of course, this is just speculation from the GitHub. 941 00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:44,720 It doesn't seem as outlandish to me that it would be a $1.5 942 00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:49,840 billion FTV type protocol. I don't know. 943 00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:52,680 It's tough. It's tough for me to to make up 944 00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:54,240 too much else. I mean, we're speculating. 945 00:52:54,240 --> 00:52:57,160 We're like 5 layers deep on the speculations to get to that 946 00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:01,360 point. But what seemed more outlandish 947 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,160 to me previously seems less outlandish at this point in 948 00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,800 time, I should say. So now the Coyote tokens turning 949 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:11,480 $1.20 on AVO pre pre markets it was up at 240 over the weekend, 950 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,040 but actually on decent volume. So it had one and a half million 951 00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:15,720 in volume. But now it looks like the volume 952 00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:17,400 is off a Cliff. It's getting on like 50K in 953 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:18,960 volume. So what's that give it? 954 00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:25,680 FTB yeah, these these are FTB. So it's trading at 1.21.16 FTB 955 00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:30,800 right now. That seems that seems OK based 956 00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:35,400 on again, a lot of a lot of like really weird back of the napkin 957 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,200 math type stuff. But like, I've seen worse of 958 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,760 course. In Legendary, he did an OTC deal 959 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,560 with Lucify, paid $30. That real that's. 960 00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,120 Real. That looks like it's real. 961 00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:51,320 So we'll see if that bet pays off. 962 00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,320 But he is putting money out that he thinks he has to be worth 963 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,800 more than $30.00. So there's been some outlandish 964 00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:00,000 price takes out there, I think on purpose to generate views and 965 00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:05,400 whatnot. They're not going to be 100. 966 00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:07,360 Could they be 30? I mean, clearly Legendary thinks 967 00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,600 they they will. I'll be happy with anything over 968 00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,440 10. I think at this point, hopefully 969 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,800 more than a dollar because something people will be 970 00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,880 disappointed if it's a dollar. The great thing about the way 971 00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,160 you did it, Tyler, though, is like you didn't, from my 972 00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,000 understanding, really go out of your way to be farming this. 973 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,600 You know, you acted kind of on Twitter like you would act. 974 00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,600 So this is a bonus for everything you're doing. 975 00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,120 Anyway, that's awesome. Well, and that's how I thought 976 00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,200 you can even make the argument that the system gets degraded 977 00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,280 the longer the farming is open, and perhaps that's why they shut 978 00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,840 it down so fast. It was already getting degraded 979 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:43,600 pretty heavily like 15 people made the same tweet on my 980 00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:47,040 timeline and 15 smart people made the same tweet and and 981 00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:48,920 whatever that happens with big news and stuff. 982 00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:52,960 But like you can tell that a little bit of it was, you know 983 00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,400 kind of related, which is which is unfortunate. 984 00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:59,280 I am very happy to not see the I've earned X amount of yaps in 985 00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,960 the last 24 hours tweets. I'm glad they'll be off my 986 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,560 timeline. The real signal for Kaido was 987 00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,600 when people were organically tweeting about topics and you 988 00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:11,080 can see where actual mindshare was and who was driving 989 00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:15,200 conversations and that data got distorted during farming. 990 00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,560 And hopefully we get a reset here and we will see who was 991 00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:21,360 just speaking up to earn yaps and who actually cares to to be 992 00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,360 in these conversations. So I am excited for that, though 993 00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:25,520 I think there's going to be more seasons. 994 00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:29,040 I think there's also likely going to be vesting of some 995 00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,280 kind. Before we wrap up, I know we're 996 00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:37,880 over. Let's recap our myriad bets we 997 00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,320 had. We had some success over the 998 00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,680 weekend. So Diamond Hands Poker played 999 00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,720 out on Saturday. Looks like there ended up being 1000 00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:49,600 10 markets at least 6,000,000 Pingu bet. 1001 00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:51,960 So I'm, you know, pretty happy with the overall pot sizes. 1002 00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:56,840 Our boy Farouk crushed it. So he he won the largest pot. 1003 00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:01,280 So that bet was a winner. No on four of a kind hit. 1004 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:06,400 That one was a little bit of a a sweat because I think someone 1005 00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:10,920 may have been dealt it, but they didn't they didn't play it and 1006 00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:15,200 so it didn't resolve. And then there was 72 did was a 1007 00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:19,800 yes, that was an underdog bet. Yeah, our analysis was spot on. 1008 00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:22,320 Unfortunately, I cannot participate in these. 1009 00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:25,440 Otherwise the Faroque 1 was my top bet from the stream on 1010 00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:26,960 Friday. I would have been able to cash 1011 00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,560 in. It was like what, 40% or 1012 00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:30,440 something, 45% when we were talking about it. 1013 00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,760 Yeah, that's a + 150% gain slogan. 1014 00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,880 Gave everyone the alpha. I gave everyone the outfit. 1015 00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,120 Yeah, well, hopefully so. Hopefully some people made that 1016 00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:42,320 bet. I did not watch the stream, so I 1017 00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,600 can't suggest that the analysis I provided, which was that pro 1018 00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:47,560 could be a little more gun slingy than Luca. 1019 00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,200 I don't know that that's actually what transpired, but 1020 00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,040 I'm going to tell myself it did. So yeah. 1021 00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,240 Well, the the results were, were were good. 1022 00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:59,000 Love seeing some real money markets on me and exciting for 1023 00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,400 more to come. Folks, we're going to go ahead 1024 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:05,200 and wrap things up there. Thanks to our listeners for 1025 00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,680 tuning and thanks to our partners as always. 1026 00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,400 We'll be back tomorrow at 10:00 AM Eastern. 1027 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,280 Until then, go make today a great day. 1028 00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:12,480 Goodbye.