1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:06,880 Good morning, good morning, everyone, the MGN and welcome to 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:13,680 another episode of Homo. Our day is Thursday, May 15th 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,800 morning morning high highs of May. 4 00:00:18,080 --> 00:00:21,720 I play through this month on it. All right, flying by, but this 5 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,960 is our first red morning. What feels like a wild crypto's 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:26,880 down. Stocks are down. 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,200 We had some negative Coinbase news landing this morning as 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:31,000 well though. Nice. 9 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,160 You'd surprise. I think the question is our 10 00:00:33,160 --> 00:00:36,840 recent rally, is it over or just a minor pause in this bigger leg 11 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:37,880 up? We're going to break it all down 12 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,600 on today's show. I got my Co host in the house, 13 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,120 Mando Logan. Stats is supposed to stop by 14 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,480 today as well. How you guys doing Mando? 15 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,160 I'm doing amazing man. Very, very busy last 24 hours. 16 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,720 But but but good market. I mean, it's not that over 17 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,880 really, is it? It's just, it's just a little 18 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,600 bit of a of the wind getting taken out of the sails. 19 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,280 I feel like that's it. Minor, Minor pull back. 20 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:08,440 Minor pause. Let's catch our breath. 21 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:09,600 I. Think we're fine? 22 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,360 From what has been a bit of a breathtaking rally. 23 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,040 Yeah, sure. Hey, no more. 24 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,280 I know. Yeah, good morning. 25 00:01:21,320 --> 00:01:24,520 It's it's dreary here. I think it's rained almost every 26 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,240 single day since I've been back from Peru. 27 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,760 So that coupled with the the prices down makes it a little a 28 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,320 little more of Abma little more of a bad morning than than it 29 00:01:34,320 --> 00:01:35,680 would have been when I was in Peru. 30 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,320 But I'm still glad to be here, so. 31 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:39,600 Maybe our weather will come your way. 32 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,680 It has been absolutely gorgeous in Chicago. 33 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,480 I would like that. I would like that, but it just 34 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,320 rains every day here in, in in Pennsylvania. 35 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,440 Times are tough BM for Logie. Well, hopefully your BM turns 36 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,160 into AGM here shortly, folks. What are we talking about on 37 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:57,480 today's show? We've got Mando, we'll go 38 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,640 through the market report. PPI coming in negative. 39 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,240 Powell sang higher for longer. We've got it was a big day for 40 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,400 the ETFs yesterday despite some of this action. 41 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,000 We've got this Coinbase exploit. We're going to break down what 42 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:10,600 that is, how big of a deal it is. 43 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,040 Ethereum's new trillion dollar security initiative, Tether 44 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,600 going deep into big AI. That was a bit of a surprise 45 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:18,920 yesterday. We've got the launch coin 46 00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:22,320 latest, the eco still cooking, but maybe a little pivot on the 47 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,240 table from Mr. Pasternak, some new entertainments continuing to 48 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,320 grind up and perhaps some more punks. 49 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,440 Reactions from stats here in a minute. 50 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,760 Before we dive in, a quick shout to our partner, Wallet Connect. 51 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,000 Wallet Connect is the connectivity network shaping the 52 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,800 future of on chain UX. If you've connected to a Web 3 53 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,600 app, you've seen Wallet Connect. That blue logo, it's everywhere 54 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,640 and icon of trust in crypto as recognizable as a Visa at the 55 00:02:45,640 --> 00:02:47,040 checkout. If you want to learn more, 56 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,080 follow at Wall Connect on X and Telegram to stay ahead of what's 57 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,440 next. All right, Amanda, if you're 58 00:02:53,440 --> 00:03:01,640 ready, let's get into it. Who is the man Macro daddy of 59 00:03:01,640 --> 00:03:06,280 the land? Can you dig it? 60 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,880 GM, everyone. So we've had a little bit of a 61 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,880 weaker start today. I think the majority of that is 62 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:16,360 we had, it was a bit of a macro day. 63 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,320 So we had PPI come out earlier today. 64 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:20,760 PPI is a producer price inflation. 65 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,280 It's like the other inflation metric based on producer prices 66 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:25,560 and that came in with a big mess. 67 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,560 In fact that showed deflation which is which is kind of 68 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,840 surprising, kind of fits in with what with what true flation 69 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,320 figures have been showing rather than some of the inflation 70 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,560 expectation figures. So big mess maybe points to the 71 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,480 idea that the Fed can cut rates a little bit quicker than than 72 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:47,880 had previously been expected. And yeah, let's see, let's see 73 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:49,480 kind of see where that one ends up. 74 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,920 On the back of that. Stocks again, had had a good 75 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:54,880 period here. They were up again yesterday. 76 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,520 They're down today. So they're down for the first 77 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,920 time in four sessions here. And gold has been heading a 78 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:04,840 little bit lower for the last few sessions, though it's 79 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,360 bounced very slightly today. So the fact that crippos down 80 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,560 kind of makes sense in the world of macro here because you've got 81 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,080 stocks and you've got gold lower now. 82 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,360 It's not crazy. I would say that that PPI miss 83 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,120 is a good, good thing for the market because I think a lot of 84 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,440 people were scared about tariffs causing runaway inflation. 85 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,960 So if we're at this sort of stage before those tariffs come 86 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:32,000 in, then I think we're at yeah, we're at a good, we're at a good 87 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,000 point. So I don't, I don't think it's 88 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,480 like some going to be something where Bitcoin gets absolutely 89 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,400 smashed lower. But it's just interesting to 90 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,640 see, you know, 1% move in Bitcoin is absolutely smashed a 91 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,360 bunch of alt coins. And I still think it's another 92 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,640 couple of couple of weeks in this little mini altcoin thing 93 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,000 because I'm, I'm bullish on ether, as I've said a number of 94 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,080 times at the moment, I think that's going to go to 3K3K plus 95 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,640 here. And that will mean that that 96 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:06,000 altcoins naturally, I think get a bid, but I would be a little 97 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,680 bit wary of other things. And the reason why is, is I 98 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:15,480 don't think this, this doesn't remind me of Q4 where I felt 99 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,360 like there were a bunch of new entrants coming in to buy bags. 100 00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:22,400 This reminds this feels like the people who are still around 101 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:27,640 trading between themselves on narratives and assuming they're 102 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,120 going to have the same narrative as let's say the AI move. 103 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,080 The AI move. I felt like on boarded a lot of 104 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,800 people actually at the time and there was a lot of people new 105 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:37,840 wallets, I think coming in to buy. 106 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:42,000 I don't see many people buying. I continue to not see too many 107 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,520 new entrants here. It feels like it's a bit it's 108 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,280 PvP world. So I'm still a little bit wary 109 00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:52,720 on like broad alt coins, but but I do think ether is going to go 110 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,920 higher and that will probably mean that, you know, things 111 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,080 don't get all coins. I think, sorry, Bitcoin 112 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,400 dominance could can go a little bit lower in, in the short term 113 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,400 in terms of like big, big news, You kind of covered some of the 114 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,520 main stuff there. So E foundation's doing a 115 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,200 security initiative at the moment. 116 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,400 I I don't even know if that's going to be like some huge 117 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,360 thing. JP Morgan big bank settled their 118 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,080 first transaction on public blockchain and that was not to 119 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,480 be surprising, but you're going to see a lot of big banks come 120 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,120 in and decide they're going to do that. 121 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,080 Mastercard's doing these stable coins. 122 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,600 Yeah, it was it was nothing major in terms of like headlines 123 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,680 overnight, just that we've had a little bit of a sell off here 124 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,840 because of macro and the macro had a good run and, and and this 125 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:45,080 kind of makes sense. I I would not be selling today. 126 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:54,480 That's what I would say I am re buying a lot of the stuff I sold 127 00:06:54,800 --> 00:07:04,400 where around this time last week on only on select things there 128 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,520 so ETH and ETH beta. So I'm buying some some ETH meme 129 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:14,840 coins and and ETH and then I have bought a little bit of far 130 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,520 coin. Little Far Coin Nibble might 131 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,360 like to like to hear that we we we telegraphed this on the show 132 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,200 yesterday, but interestingly, hyper liquid spot. 133 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:31,760 We did see fartcoin flip Bitcoin in train volume on the day. 134 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,520 It looks like now over the the recent 24 hours it it's now back 135 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,680 to forth, but that was somewhat notable. 136 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,520 A few reactions to your market report. 137 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,720 But first we've got Stats in the studio with us Stats. 138 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:46,760 Thanks for joining us, Jean. What's up boys? 139 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,800 Sorry I'm late. My I live in the mountains and 140 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,320 my Wi-Fi went down and then my phone doesn't work at home so I 141 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,240 can't just like hotspot in so it's a bit of a mess but here we 142 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:56,760 are. Took a little 3 minute drive and 143 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:58,880 now we're good. That's the that's the mountain 144 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,080 life for you right there. There you go. 145 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,600 Mando, I think what was somewhat notable from this morning and 146 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,440 maybe this is just pal posturing, but we had PPI come 147 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:13,760 in negative, so deflating month over month and he's cautioning 148 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:18,880 for higher for longer. So you, you think that's just 149 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:23,040 him kind of holding his cards close to his close to the best? 150 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:28,280 I mean, he can say one thing and and and he'll not follow through 151 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:29,920 with it. I, I don't know why on the back 152 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,799 of that figure you'd ever be like higher for longer, but 153 00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:34,480 that's clearly a deflationary figure. 154 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,159 I think the only thing to say here is that Powell, I don't 155 00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:39,240 think can move up. You can't, you can't just look 156 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,480 at this and go like, oh, we're going to drop rates because the 157 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,440 tariffs are about to come in. And I don't think the Fed can 158 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,640 really do anything until late Q3Q4. 159 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,160 Even if, even if they wanted to, they've got to see the, the 160 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,880 result of the tariffs. So there's a lot of focus on 161 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:57,160 Jerome Powell and what he can do. 162 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,080 I don't think you're going to see Jerome Powell do anything 163 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,280 for for quite a while here. I think in terms of global 164 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,880 easing, I think you got to look at Asia as the main place for 165 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,480 that at the moment. Feels right. 166 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,080 I mean the CME rate cut futures have made some pretty drastic 167 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,880 moves. So July is is still an underdog 168 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,960 for a rate cut that was pretty heavily favored. 169 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:23,720 And now I think by end of year 20% shot at just one cut that 170 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:28,840 the favorite at 37 percent is 2 cuts again in Q4. 171 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,800 So along the lines of what you're saying after we we've 172 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,080 seen some of the the tariffs start to to roll in, but then 173 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:39,520 even that gets muddy with you've got like the temporary 90 day 174 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,400 program with China. We don't know that's going to 175 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,880 get extended. We don't know what's going to go 176 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,680 up or down from there. And if we don't know, pal 177 00:09:47,680 --> 00:09:50,200 doesn't know, right. So he can continue to point to 178 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,600 the uncertainty. No one ever knows. 179 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,600 I mean, that's just the thing about the world and about macro 180 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,280 data. No one ever knows. 181 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,960 I mean, I, I remember when I worked at, when I, when I did 182 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,600 macro research at Goldman Sachs, I'd go around and see clients 183 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,280 three times a year. And I'd say of the seven years I 184 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:11,240 did that 21 kind of Rd. trips, we don't know what's going to 185 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:12,640 happen, was the theme of every single one. 186 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,680 Yeah, that is, I mean if we do, if we had the crystal ball, you 187 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,440 know, we'd all be very rich. So I thought that was 188 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,280 interesting. I think another interesting 189 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,400 macro, I mean you mentioned for like no, it doesn't feel like 190 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,080 there's new entrants, right. And I think that jives with what 191 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,320 I'm seeing. But there is one sector of new 192 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:44,720 entrants that is booming and that's companies specs spinning 193 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,760 up to buy Bitcoin. Looks like another one this 194 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:52,000 morning. Logan, I don't know if you took 195 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,040 a look at this, is this also in the DJT family now they're 196 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,160 they're. Yeah, sorry. 197 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,960 I was just going to say Devin Nunez is Trump Global Media, I 198 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,880 believe either CEO, board or chairman of the board or 199 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:06,520 executive chairman or something like that. 200 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,960 He's the one who wrote the letter about the Truth Social 201 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,960 token, if you remember that from a few weeks back. 202 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:14,440 So I recognize the name. I don't. 203 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,000 I don't know too much about him. So sort of Trump related, yeah. 204 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:25,480 But it looks like, yeah, $210 million IPO an acquisition. 205 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,360 So I believe this is another Bitcoin acquisition company. 206 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,160 I haven't had a chance to to dig into the specific headline, but 207 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,680 it goes along with the general theme that we're seeing these 208 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:37,000 new companies spin up as Bitcoin investment vehicles. 209 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,320 And I think it's starting to raise more and more alarm bells 210 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,520 to a degree, Like clearly it's driving inflows in the near 211 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,120 term. I think there's big questions 212 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,040 of, of what happens in a pullback. 213 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,520 I think stats you've been kind of following this and, and kind 214 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:55,000 of sounding at least on the premium that some of these 215 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,200 stocks have been trading at for these companies who, who are 216 00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,600 doing this. I guess what's, what are your 217 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,760 thoughts on where this is? Is this becoming one of the 218 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:06,160 bigger risks to to Bitcoin and the broader ecosystem here? 219 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,040 I'm not sure I see it as a big risk, to be honest, but I think 220 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,440 that I, I think this phenomenon is going to be very short lived 221 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:19,120 And, and I think that a person like at the end of the day, 222 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,720 there's no narrative here. Like these guys just know that 223 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,640 the market, Bitcoin holding companies, particularly 224 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:28,280 MicroStrategy, the market is currently paying two times NAV. 225 00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:31,920 What that means is if they spend $100 million and buy 2 and buy 226 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,080 $100 million of Bitcoin, If you and I get together and say, hey, 227 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,320 let's ask every rich person that we've ever met if they'll give 228 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,280 us money and we get $100 million, we use that $100 229 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,600 million to buy $100 million of Bitcoin. 230 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,200 We go part, we put into this into a public vehicle and the 231 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,440 market says, OK, that's worth $200 million. 232 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,840 And then we sell our stock. We instantly make a 2X like 233 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,000 that's the model because people are looking at MicroStrategy to 234 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:00,880 say, hey, the market's paying 2.1 XNAV for MicroStrategy, so 235 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,400 maybe they'll pay US 1.5 X because we're doing the same 236 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:04,600 thing. We just don't have sailors. 237 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,720 So maybe we'll have a lower premium, but there's no 238 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,320 narrative there. Like there's no reason. 239 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,640 I personally think it should trade at a discount 10 AV 240 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:12,960 because at the end of the day, it's going to be harder for 241 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,480 these guys to sell their Bitcoin spot because I have a lot of it. 242 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,480 And and once once it becomes clear that these vehicles are 243 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,240 selling, people are going to want to front run that and 244 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,800 they're going to lower the price and the price is going to go 245 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:27,440 down. So ultimately I would think they 246 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,760 should trade it as like discount NAV as opposed to a premium, But 247 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,360 they're just kind of playing on what's been an incredible 248 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,040 phenomenon, which is micro strategy trading at more than 249 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,600 two times the Bitcoin that they actually own. 250 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,360 And I've seen decks for it. I had a friend send me a deck 251 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,400 say, hey, we're raising $100 million and we think it's worth 252 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,360 $150 million in in a week. And that doesn't work like that. 253 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,360 That just simply doesn't work over time. 254 00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:52,680 We saw it with Spacs, we saw it with GBTC. 255 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,320 I think the SPAC phenomenon was better because at least with the 256 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,560 specs, you could go around and you could say, hey, DraftKings, 257 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:01,400 you know, is worth a ton of money. 258 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:02,440 Look at this crazy amount of money. 259 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:03,960 They're going to makeover the next five years. 260 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,280 You should buy drafting stock. My friend is the CEO or the CTO 261 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,320 of a company called Quantum Scape, which was one of the most 262 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,120 successful SPAC's. It's down a lot now, but at 263 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,440 least then you could tell some story about how their batteries 264 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,920 were changing the world and keep people excited for a couple 265 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:19,760 weeks, for a couple months, maybe even a year. 266 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,800 I don't know what keeps people excited about this narrative for 267 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,680 anything like I I think this collapses very soon. 268 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,320 I just don't see what gives it any longevity because it really 269 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,080 makes no economic sense. It's just leaning on the fact 270 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:36,400 that that Sailor has created such a following, such an 271 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,760 incredible marketing ability, that people are paying 2.1 X for 272 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,560 the Bitcoin he owns. But it's not like any any other 273 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,960 person can just do that. And the other thing is that as 274 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,600 long as this happens, more and more supply will come to market 275 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,160 because it's free money And, and whenever more and more supply 276 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,400 comes to market, the premium goes to zero and eventually it 277 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,640 goes negative because the sentiment shifts and then 278 00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:58,840 everyone's stuck in these trades. 279 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,600 So I don't know. I'm, I'm extremely negative on 280 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,360 them trading at a premium. You know, if, if someone buys 281 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,640 $500 million of Bitcoin now and later has to liquidate or that 282 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,440 that goes to or it goes to par, I don't think that's a negative 283 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,160 for Bitcoin. Like I'm, I'm not too worried 284 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:14,920 about the underlying asset here. I don't think it matters that 285 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:16,680 much. I do think if Sailor ever have 286 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,120 to ever has to sell, that's a huge and that like that that's. 287 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,960 A bit of a cross, but can we talk about how to can I, because 288 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,520 I'm like kind of a little bit interested in in how you would 289 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,360 because I was looking at this too and I was like, right, Well, 290 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,280 maybe you value it like a major commodities trader, right? 291 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,160 Maybe because they're often priced on book that like like 292 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,120 Glencore or or even banks, right. 293 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,280 Banks you might think, OK, these guys own financial assets which 294 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,040 they can make some sort of income stream on. 295 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,280 How do we value it? To put into perspective, I think 296 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,680 banks sometimes they trade below book but they they normally 297 00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:00,800 trade like 1 to 1 1/2 X book. And I think I looked at 298 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:05,000 Glencorp, Glencorp trades at 1.2 X book and Glencorp makes a ton 299 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,000 of money every year but. Glencorp is a. 300 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,560 Trading firm that had that, that is good at generating returns on 301 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,800 capital. These guys have no illusion of 302 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,640 generating returns on capital. They're simply and capital being 303 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,720 the Bitcoin price like they are simply. 304 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,920 Owning Bitcoin. If Glencore, if Glencore said 305 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,000 hey, we're going to go spend $100 million and buy oil and 306 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,760 that's it. Before we get down and. 307 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,720 And we're doing, it's just going to sit in oil. 308 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:34,640 That's all we're doing. We're not going to use our 309 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,360 expertise as traders. We're not going to use our 310 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,400 technology. We're simply going to own oil. 311 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,280 That's it. It would trade at the price of 312 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,480 oil. Yeah. 313 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,720 But I guess so. And in general, I agree with 314 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,000 you. I think perhaps 1. 315 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,840 I don't know if it's quite devil's advocate. 316 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,320 Some of these companies like 21 Capital, I believe they're, they 317 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,440 are at least alluding to some kind of like financial 318 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,200 engineering that they're going to do. 319 00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,800 This is my point. This is actually my point 320 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,640 because, because This is why people try and explain the way 321 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,839 the equity premium, they say it should trade it to Expo. 322 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,200 He's going to do this crazy thing in the future, whether 323 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,440 it's going to generate some form of yield from the asset that is 324 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,800 the equity premium of these companies right now. 325 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:16,800 They earn so much, they are going to do something. 326 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,400 And I was like that as a narrative is not a new one. 327 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,640 There's lots of companies that basically buy a commodity or buy 328 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:30,320 an asset and just make a yield off it and you own their equity. 329 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,560 And the two major ones for me were commodity traders and banks 330 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,680 like and both of those don't trade anywhere close to 2X book. 331 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,360 And they have long track records where you can see their ability 332 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:43,960 of re generating return on equity. 333 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,200 They have very clear strategies here. 334 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,240 There's none here. There's just like, hey, we'll do 335 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,680 yield sometime and and we don't, we can't really explain it to 336 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,800 you, but we'll do it eventually. So you're buying a dream. 337 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,720 So when you say that, I do. Want to be clear, I think, I 338 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,440 think talking about MicroStrategy and talking about 339 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,680 the rest of them, I think they're slightly different just 340 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,920 because MicroStrategy has built such a religion around it. 341 00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:13,120 I agree. I think they're different to to 342 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,280 wrap this up, you think it's a short term phenomenon? 343 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,320 Do you think it unwinds or or just that the the premium it's 344 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,760 like the premium goes to 0 or even negative and it's pretty 345 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,680 discount. Are these companies just going 346 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,560 to close you up? No, I mean, I would imagine 347 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,080 like, that's why I said I don't think it's that big of a deal. 348 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,920 Like I don't think this is the type of thing that that that's 349 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,840 going to like hurt big. MicroStrategy, I do think does 350 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,800 pose risk because if there's ever a hint that he has to sell 351 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,640 Bitcoin, it is run for the fences. 352 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,760 Because if he goes from being a buyer to a seller like you just 353 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,080 you don't want to, you don't want to be later than the guy 354 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,000 who owns 3.5% of Bitcoin selling. 355 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:49,920 I don't think that's a huge risk right now. 356 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,440 I don't think he's going to be a force liquidator anytime soon. 357 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:55,520 No, I think these are, they go to par and then whatever. 358 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,960 It's like people, you know, maybe the investors who put $100 359 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,880 million in, get their $100 million back 'cause that's, or, 360 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,320 you know, or it just kind of trades in line with Bitcoin and 361 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,720 it just kind of sits there as just a, a Bitcoin proxy. 362 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,280 And I don't, I don't think that's a big deal. 363 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,880 I just think we're going to, I think this, I, this phenomenon, 364 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,240 these things trading at a premium, 10 AV is going to, is 365 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,480 going to go away. I mean, maybe if they start 366 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,920 trading at a discount, let's say these things trade at a 20% 367 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,680 discount. I mean, GBTC traded at a 40% 368 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,080 discount, 10 AV. No, just a little bit. 369 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,480 They'll just consult it if that. If that happens, the ones with 370 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,840 the premium will just buy the ones at the discount, right? 371 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,520 That's kind of what that's the whole reason why someone was 372 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,040 going to buy GBTC in the end, because it was like rival this 373 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,240 trade. That creates more risk though. 374 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,600 That creates more risk because then you actually have like if 375 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,440 they continue to trade at a discount. 376 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,280 But again, I think this is all a bit kind of inside baseball. 377 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,280 I don't think it, like I don't think it's super relevant for 378 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:46,880 us. But yeah, if they consolidate, 379 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,120 if someone buys the smaller ones or if shareholders say, hey, you 380 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:52,160 know, right now we're getting $0.80 on the dollar, let's just 381 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:53,960 sell our Bitcoin and get a dollar on the dollar. 382 00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:57,800 Like, like because it's the difference between this and GBTC 383 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,640 is this actually has a convergence mechanism. 384 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:02,560 Like these guys actually can sell the the Bitcoin and just 385 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,800 get the cash and pay it back to shareholders if they want to. 386 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:07,960 Right. But yeah, I think that's 387 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:09,560 probably right that they trade at a premium. 388 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:11,680 They, I mean, they consolidate unless they all start to trade 389 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,400 at a discount and then maybe they sell all their Bitcoin or 390 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,200 maybe they just kind of wait for it to, for, for, for greener 391 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,640 times. It's an interesting discussion. 392 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,760 I think it's one that will continue to be top of the top of 393 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,440 the timeline as we continue to see these these companies pile 394 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,040 in. I want to talk about ETH briefly 395 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:29,680 with you stats. You know you're a big ETH guy. 396 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,600 Love to to celebrate ETH showing everyone who who's daddy on the 397 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,000 graze when it outperforms. I know. 398 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,920 He's always crying on the stream right now. 399 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,360 Me. Yeah, you look so happy when 400 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,080 when the E price was mentioned just then. 401 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,800 You know, I'll be honest, my show. 402 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,640 Who's daddy? Like not not to double use a 403 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,560 word, but it's just kind of like a stupid dad joke. 404 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,240 Like it's just like a meme where I know ETH is getting crushed. 405 00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:58,960 So anytime ETH goes up a little bit, I think it's funny to post 406 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,160 like show him who's daddy ETH. Like if he is up on a 24 hour 407 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,360 chart, it's just a meme. It's just a meme. 408 00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:05,680 I'm just taking the piss a little bit. 409 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,120 It's not like a serious, it's not a serious thing. 410 00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:10,640 I'm kind of I've got I probably have more money in Bitcoin than 411 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,280 ETH and I shifted a little bit my ETH over to punk. 412 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,520 So I'm not like a huge ETH guy. I just think it's kind of a 413 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,720 stupid dad joke to keep saying that over and over. 414 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,840 Of course, I know on director radio yesterday, Mando, you guys 415 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,160 kind of went around the horn a little bit. 416 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,840 Just everyone's trying to figure out like, why is he pumping 417 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,440 stats? Do you have a a take how we saw 418 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:33,240 the 50 percent, 60% move in a week week and a. 419 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,360 Half you know, I I never know the inner workings of what's 420 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,600 driving these things. You know, it always feels like 421 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,520 big players have a big impact, but I, I would think in this 422 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,600 case, you know, I mean, it's if you, you know, it's clearly 423 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,680 we're, we're in a bullish Bitcoin environment. 424 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,160 And if you're in a, if you're in a bullish Bitcoin environment, 425 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,920 regardless of what people on the timeline want to say about 426 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,800 Vitalik or about how awful dot ETS are, whatever people like to 427 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,480 yell at ETH, ETH is the second easiest way to get crypto 428 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,360 exposure in the world for any buyer. 429 00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:02,720 And I think people you see Bitcoin RIP and eventually ETH 430 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,480 can catch a can catch a bid and there's probably some short 431 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,160 squeeze on it where people are underexposed or where people are 432 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,440 short and that that reverses. I mean that, that would just be 433 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,880 my guess, but in a global kind of bullish crypto environment, 434 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,640 which I think we have been over the past month, ETH, regardless 435 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,680 how hated it on, on the timeline it is, it is the best place to 436 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:27,040 go if you, for most people, you know, obviously ETFs in the US 437 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,280 is just one example of of it being the only other option you 438 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,680 really have. So I I think it I think it makes 439 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,360 some sense. Nice little day on the ETF 440 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,600 Thursday 63 and a half million that inflows. 441 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,560 Let's go BlackRock, Bryan. Everything bullish. 442 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,400 One of the the highest in the last month or so, I'd say for 443 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:46,720 sure. I always find it interesting to 444 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,520 read like what the the analysts, like the larger institutions 445 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,760 funds are saying. In this particular report from 446 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,480 Bernstein, they are pointing to the growing embrace of digital 447 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,800 assets usefulness as more than stores of value and increased 448 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,400 institutional and retail interest adoption of blockchain 449 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,520 and stablecoins as as what's driving the Ethereum price 450 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,040 action. So I did think that was 451 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,120 interesting stats you mentioned you're storing at least a good 452 00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:17,440 chunk of your ETH in punks. We've we've we've hit the the 453 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,880 punk story a decent amount over the last few days, but would 454 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:24,160 love your take as a pretty decent sized punk owner. 455 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,240 You're holding three of these things. 456 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:26,960 It's a pretty. Big I got three of them. 457 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,400 I got three of them. I post I post new AI pictures of 458 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:35,720 them everyday Look, I, I, I think net net, you know, look, I 459 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,360 think this is a positive. I think that Yuga has I 460 00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:41,880 personally like yuga. I've always had respect for 461 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,040 them. I think that they're generally 462 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,720 good people and I think that they did a good job with punks. 463 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,240 But at the end of the day, it's clear like the crypto community 464 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,800 has issues with them. I think the punk community has 465 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,160 issues with them. So I think, you know, and every 466 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:57,760 now and then you come across people who didn't want to buy 467 00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,640 punks because they associate with Yuga and I think it's nice 468 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,920 to get that overhang out of the way. 469 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:06,240 It like, is this, you know, like Kobe or someone who like the, 470 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:09,320 the community loves buys them and then everybody's like, oh 471 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,440 fuck, I got to own 1. So Floorgo shoots up from 45 to 472 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:13,640 60. You know, it's not that kind of 473 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:14,720 event. I think this is just more of 474 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:20,040 like a long haul kind of cleaner holder for, for the asset 475 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,120 assets. Wrong word that a cleaner holder 476 00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:25,800 for punks better association for them. 477 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,240 I mean, it does go to, I mean, it's the people have been 478 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,320 posting about this, but Mickey Mulka, you know, basically it's 479 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,600 his foundation. Him and his wife seated the $25 480 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,960 million on it. Just go to a person like, you 481 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,240 know, it's still got kind of like a bit of an entity. 482 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,520 But, you know, Mickey's been a great steward for the space, 483 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,640 someone who I think, you know, loves digital art, who has 484 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,880 sufficient capital that they're not going to be out there trying 485 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,920 to, you know, squeeze the orange here and, and, and get juice 486 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,720 from it. So I think as far as like one 487 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,160 person who could really kind of be the the behind the foundation 488 00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,800 that owns it, I think he's as good as you can get. 489 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,800 So we'll see. We'll see what happens here. 490 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,440 And that now it just becomes more of like a long grind 491 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,960 towards towards greatness. So let's talk price action. 492 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,480 So I appreciate your take. I actually read it on 493 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,640 yesterday's show because I thought it was a nice balanced 494 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,240 1. Yeah, I saw a couple takes being 495 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,480 like, oh, this was like you guys doing like look at how dumb bad 496 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,520 they are because they wanted tax benefits and blah blah blah. 497 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,720 I mean, if you're talking about and they didn't even mention the 498 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,240 fact that they got 414 punks that they own themselves. 499 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,360 They're like, oh, they just this was just a huge L on the IPI 500 00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:38,800 mean, clearly they clearly lost money on it. 501 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,440 But to talk about this without even mentioning the fact that 502 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,280 they own 414 punks is is, I think missing missing the story. 503 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,360 I'm curious how they're going to monetize those. 504 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,960 Yeah, I've heard rumblings that there's a plan, but I, yeah, you 505 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,520 know that that I was big holders are a big overhang. 506 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,320 Sorry, I, I was talking to people around this deal because 507 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:04,520 I was reporting stories and I, I got no comment on on the future 508 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,200 of the, the Yuga Punk's assets other than that they still own 509 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:12,080 them so. Yeah, well, makes for that deep 510 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,080 in, that deep in. I know that's that's not too 511 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,160 much. But I've heard small rumblings 512 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,440 that there are plans in which this isn't like a throw them in 513 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,600 the vault situation. But I do I I think that they I. 514 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,280 Think they'll be one thing is. Pretty clear is that you could 515 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,640 does take the legacy of punks quite seriously. 516 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,120 So I you know, it's obviously throw it in the vault is better 517 00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:35,680 than any incremental buyer. But maybe they have. 518 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,400 Yeah, maybe Mickey wants to buy it, Throwing it out when and 519 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:41,880 out. No, but I want to talk about 520 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,080 this. So just just quickly, so in 521 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,440 yesterday's one of the day shows, I, I, I laid out my 250K 522 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,720 price target for this cycle. Just asking to click on the 523 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,800 spot. Do you have a, a price target 524 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,960 for the next year? Assume assume a the scenario 525 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,880 where it's a it's a bull market we grind up through Q4. 526 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:06,080 I think punks need a catalyst to really have anything other than 527 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,560 a grind higher price. You know, I mean, one of the 528 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,360 problem with what you're saying is like, yeah, it's very, it's 529 00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:14,760 very, it's just as dependent on the price of ETH as it is the 530 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,560 price of punks. But you know, back in the day 531 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,920 there was the guy who swept 100 punks at once. 532 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,520 That was just like a massive, like a 2X catalyst. 533 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,600 And then Visa buying a punk was a huge catalyst. 534 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,520 Like I, I feel like like something to kind of make the 535 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,560 punk collection get traction outside of our universe. 536 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,240 I think right now in our universe, more and more people 537 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:38,640 are like buying their first punk. 538 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,080 Like I feel like we're seeing that punks OTC tweets that a 539 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,600 lot. And I think that's like a bit of 540 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,280 a grind higher scenario. But what's the scenario where 541 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,600 you just get a whole new group of buyers interested? 542 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,320 I don't know who that buyer would be. 543 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,480 I don't know if it's like Eric Trump making it his PFP not to 544 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,280 get political here because who knows? 545 00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:57,480 I'm using like, who are the people right now who have kind 546 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,760 of a wider sway and a wider reach that could settle, get 547 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,480 convinced to be part of this collection? 548 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,280 You know, I think you kind of need something that, and again, 549 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,640 I don't think Eric Trump would really move the needle that 550 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,960 much, but like who what is something that could really 551 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,560 expand the audience for these because we've kind of had the 552 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,480 same people buying and selling this stuff for three or four 553 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,000 years. Like, you know, it's, I think 554 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,720 it's still you've you've seen, you know, first it was board 555 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,240 apes flipping punks, then it was Penguins picking flipping punks. 556 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,560 You, you've had those. But right now, at least in this 557 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,200 moment, it's clear that there's nothing else out there if you 558 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,160 want to like have APFP that kind of puts you in the PFP lore 559 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,480 echelon. And so I think more of the space 560 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,320 is starting to get interested. But what what's the catalyst to 561 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,280 get someone new involved is it would be my question. 562 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,120 I've got an idea. Let's go. 563 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,760 Maybe a hot take a little a little out there. 564 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,320 The MicroStrategy of crypto punks. 565 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,800 This feels very non zero to me. I mean, I would put a lower 566 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,600 percent on it. I'd say I put it in like 10 to 567 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,720 20%. We've already seen companies 568 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,640 piling Bitcoin, clearly Ethereum, Solana, Trumpcoin. 569 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:09,120 We've got an ETF lined up for Pingu and pledge of Penguins. 570 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,960 Doesn't feel like a stretch to me that we get some kind of a 571 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,080 crypto punk institutional buyer. I agree. 572 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:18,480 I agree. All you need is 1. 573 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,960 I mean, Visa bought one floor punk, you know, and and hundreds 574 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,440 of millions of dollars rather than market cap. 575 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,840 So it doesn't doesn't take much. It's got to get you know, it's 576 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,960 kind of why I don't love the whole like do nothing, do 577 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,400 nothing obsession with punks. It's like kind of neat people 578 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,960 out there pushing it like you need salespeople, you need 579 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,000 people marketing it, you know, people doing things like 580 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,560 generate attention, like to get more. 581 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,320 I personally like I've never been a huge like ever. 582 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,560 You must do nothing. But that's clearly the mentality 583 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,440 that the that the that the community has taken. 584 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,600 I think and I think Mickey is going to do something which is a 585 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,160 part of I think the the bull case where I'm taking it over. 586 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,680 Yeah, I hope so. Logan, did you have a take on 587 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,760 I'll cut you off? No, yeah, I was just going to 588 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,800 add, I mean, you know, talk about what, what are the 589 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,760 potential catalysts? I think this, you know, IP 590 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,120 transfer and sales acquisition by Node foundation is exactly 591 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,560 the right type of catalyst, whether or not it'll be 592 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,520 successful. But I mean, if you read through 593 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,960 the the announcement and stuff, I mean, they're very clearly 594 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:23,320 focused on expanding this IP, not by, you know, doing new 595 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,480 commercial endeavors, perhaps, right, but by making more people 596 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,200 aware of it, which is how you get new buyers in and and 597 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,640 potentially new institutions in like museums, you know, more 598 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,440 museums type stuff like that. I know those are kind of like 599 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,680 maybe little laughing joke things. 600 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,440 I remember Tyler a year or two ago sitting in Norway talking to 601 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,200 you about, you know, mutant apes potentially being in museums. 602 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,400 Remember that big ape coin bill that he and others wanted to put 603 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,680 like that was kind of a, a joke at that point in time, But you, 604 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,600 you'd need that type of stuff for punks to get in the eyes of 605 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,320 more traditional holders to potentially, to potentially 606 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,240 really, really run the price up if that's what we're looking 607 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:02,680 for, aside from the gradual grind. 608 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,840 So I don't, I, I don't see any other way at this point in time. 609 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,640 I mean, I think this is a really good, a really good move to try 610 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,640 and do that as a, as a, I'm not a punk holder now, a former punk 611 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,800 holder, but if I were holding one, I would have been, you 612 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,800 know, signed off on a transaction like this and, and 613 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,480 at least the vision. I'm with you. 614 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,120 So it's going to be interesting to follow. 615 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,280 We hit punks a good amount. I'm going to talk a little bit 616 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,040 about this Coinbase news. This is pretty huge news. 617 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,560 I think so Brian Armstrong shared a video, personal videos, 618 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,120 about 2 1/2 minutes long, a bit too long to play for the show. 619 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:41,000 Coinbase also published this blog that cyber criminals 620 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:46,440 effectively bribed members of the Coinbase customer support 621 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,840 staff to get access to customer data. 622 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,280 They're saying it was less than 1% of Coinbase's monthly active 623 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,280 users. They have a longer a longer 624 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,720 write up here on their site as well. 625 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,320 It the exporters it seems like tried to ask Coinbase for a $20 626 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,520 million ransom, which Brian, I'm strong responded to this 627 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,520 morning. Instead is putting $20 million 628 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,160 out to help catch the criminals who are behind this. 629 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,120 So if you have any information, you can get a cut of that $20 630 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,600 million by helping Coinbase and law enforcement to come after 631 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,920 these these folks. It does. 632 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,760 I think there are some questions that have arisen from this. 633 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,080 They've they've filed the official form of the SECI 634 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,360 believe that the the date they're saying for the hack was 635 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,920 May 11th. I think anyone who has been 636 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,640 involved in the Coinbase ecosystem would perhaps question 637 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,560 that date. The reason I say that is because 638 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:51,320 many of us have been receiving scam texts, emails, phone calls, 639 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,960 the better part of the last year, if not longer. 640 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,880 So I mean, maybe they've been multiple exploits, I don't know. 641 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,120 But I think the questionnaire, how bad is this? 642 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:08,040 Phone numbers, e-mail addresses, addresses are a part of this as 643 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,280 well. And with the, you know, the the 644 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,520 increase in physical attacks that we've seen, I think address 645 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:19,680 data perhaps the the the most important in all this. 646 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,760 Logan, I'll run the horn, but I don't know if you had a chance 647 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,560 to dig into this reactions on your side. 648 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,440 Yeah. I didn't think in specifically 649 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,640 to this one, but I've been following those types of of 650 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,120 things quite closely here. The increase as you mentioned in 651 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,680 in physical attacks, there's a database actually Jameson Lopp 652 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,720 has a database of it. I think there have been 20 plus 653 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,560 already this year that have been reported and I'm sure there are 654 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:47,120 others that are unreported. Scary for sure, Obviously not 655 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,320 great. It it slaps a lot of the like 656 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,240 KYC stuff, which all of these centralized exchanges, right, 657 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:57,760 are forced to to, you know, require, of course, legally. 658 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,600 It slaps a lot of that in the face and makes you feel like, 659 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,080 hey, we should have been an honor suit on the entire time, 660 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,600 right? Like these types of things just 661 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,000 in increase. I think the willingness to to do 662 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,440 that. I don't know what else to say 663 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,400 really. You know, I, I've been a 664 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,719 supporter and a user of Coinbase for a really, really long time. 665 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,280 It does appear as if, you know, at least coming out with this, 666 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,679 trying to take it as seriously as they possibly can, But what 667 00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:26,639 more can you do? I mean, I've always kind of 668 00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:29,480 laughed a little bit at the not your keys, not your coin type 669 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,440 thing, just because who wants that additional burden? 670 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,920 Like I actually understand why you would want to hold it with 671 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,440 Coinbase versus keep the private keys yourself. 672 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,679 But at the same time, if you know these things increase, 673 00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:43,880 then, you know, I don't know there, there's clearly arguments 674 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,840 on both sides. So I'm, I'm rethinking, you 675 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,199 know, every day as more of this stuff comes out. 676 00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:52,639 Have you been personally? Have you had the texts and phone 677 00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:54,719 calls? Yeah, and I've I've been getting 678 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,040 them actually I've been getting the not so much Coinbase. 679 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,960 I keep getting this Gemini text weekly at this point in time, 680 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,920 you know, I I've have an account probably at like most of the 681 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,440 major centralized exchanges that have AUS users. 682 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,280 So Gemini, Coinbase, Kraken, whatever, but I so I've been 683 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,600 getting a Gemini like recovery, you know, type thing every 684 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,200 single week here for the last week. 685 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,320 But I I've gotten other calls, emails in the past related to 686 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,160 Coinbase. Yeah and I just, you know, of 687 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,160 course, write them off every single one. 688 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,680 So hopefully there is no point in time in which it actually is 689 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:34,800 true, because it boy boy who cried wolf. 690 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,600 I'd be out the door, but. I think I've gotten in every 691 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,840 single, every single week for the better part of the past year 692 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,320 to the point where I've just stopped tracking it. 693 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,360 It just feels like routine daily spam call. 694 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:49,760 So to ask, I'm curious if you have a take on this. 695 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,480 I think a Part 2 of the question is how do you feel about 696 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,640 Coinbase and their custody business model on a three to 697 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,160 five year time horizon with banks getting into to crypto? 698 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:10,800 Man, I'm kind of with you on the sense that I get so many people 699 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,480 trying to steal stuff from me. I don't even notice it anymore, 700 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,120 You know, like the number of phone calls, the number of texts 701 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:17,560 I get. And but I will say it's 702 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,640 compelling. Like, you know, I mean, I can 703 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,480 see we're someone who's a bit less savvy than we are. 704 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,360 And not that we're uniquely smart individuals. 705 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,320 We just are on ex a lot and we see people get stuff stolen. 706 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,600 So we're aware of these issues. But I can see where I have a 707 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,120 friend here who has a brother-in-law, the 26 year old 708 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,080 guy, very smart kid and kind of puts all his money to eat and he 709 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,760 had it all stolen. He has someone calling him and 710 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,400 somehow draining as well. So, and I think it was something 711 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,080 of this the ilk of the scams that you're talking about lost, 712 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,240 lost six figures, you know, and that I, I always, I continue to 713 00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:59,200 think that's a massive, it's just a constant, it's just a 714 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,600 constant friction that slows down adoption. 715 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,560 Every one of those stories expands to a wider reach of 716 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,720 people that makes more and more people afraid of the industry. 717 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,160 I don't know what I think is the safest space. 718 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,280 I think that cold storage has a lot of issues as well. 719 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,960 So I, you know, I think self storage is probably where the 720 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,800 majority of crypto gets lost empirically, even if people in 721 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,680 our space don't feel that vulnerable themselves. 722 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,160 As far as the, you know, I don't know really what Coinbase's Moat 723 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:27,800 is. I, I just don't know enough 724 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,360 about the custody business. I think their consumer business 725 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,720 is at risk because, you know, just one, just two years ago, if 726 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:37,000 you wanted to buy crypto, you almost had bait and you're 727 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,360 American, you're probably going on Coinbase now. 728 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,760 I think Robin Hood and, and just buying ETFs are extremely good 729 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,800 options, much easier, much more in line with, you know, probably 730 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,400 easier tax reporting, all that stuff. 731 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:54,520 Like so, you know, I don't know what kind of, especially with an 732 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,560 administration like we have that's so friendly towards 733 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,640 crypto and wants to make it easier for everyone to buy 734 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,480 crypto, then, you know, if it gets easier, I think that 735 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,200 Coinbase did benefit from how difficult it was to buy crypto 736 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,440 and they became the easy option. So I'm, you know, I'm not sure 737 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,400 what, but I just don't know enough about the custody 738 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:09,440 business to have a strong view there. 739 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,000 I mean, maybe there are real modes there, I'm not really 740 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,560 sure. Institutional side, you know 741 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:20,280 very well may be safer. I'm just in the camp that if I 742 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:25,920 personally could hold crypto on Coinbase or JP Morgan Chase or 743 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,640 this your your personal Bank of choice. 744 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,840 I don't know why you would go the Coinbase route and take on 745 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,800 this extra risk. And I actually think they're, I, 746 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,400 it's not clear to me. It's not clear to me that they 747 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:36,800 have deposit protection right now. 748 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,240 Like if, if JP Morgan goes bankrupt, you're going to get 749 00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:42,400 like depositors are like the first who get their money back. 750 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,200 I'm not sure that's the case with Coinbase. 751 00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:48,120 There, there are some, there are some protections like is it 752 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,600 called Coinbase? I don't know what they're prime. 753 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,680 Is that what it is? Yeah, there are some protections 754 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:59,360 with that, but it's I think much smaller than like the FDIC is 755 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,480 what $250,000 or something like that at a minimum depending upon 756 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,600 the account or whatever. I think it's like 100,000, maybe 757 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,320 150 thousand. I have to go look. 758 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,920 But I do know that there are some terms there for some 759 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,360 protection, account protection, but you might need to be 760 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,880 subscribed. Yeah, to their to their 761 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,760 subscription business. So I think a good response here 762 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,400 from Coinbase, but I think there's a question too little 763 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,440 too late. So we'll see how this continues 764 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,800 to to play out like one of the biggest surprise stories of the 765 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,000 day. Continuing to go through this 766 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,280 list. I don't know how many folks saw 767 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,760 this because I haven't seen very much chatter on the timeline, 768 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,720 but Tether is getting into the AI business and they're taking a 769 00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:43,160 lofty A lofty swing at this. So they just announced Q vac 770 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,280 quantum verse atomic computer. It is vision to be a 771 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,680 decentralized AI platform to run entirely on personal devices. 772 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,440 No centralized servicers, no big tech middle men is how they're 773 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,200 spinning it up. It's named based on Isaac Asimov 774 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,840 1956 short story The Last Question, which involved the 775 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:06,240 self evolving computer which takes humanity to the end of the 776 00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:08,600 civilization. Interestingly enough, I skim 777 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,240 that short story. It's worth a read if you haven't 778 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:15,120 but this platform. Enables an autonomous AI agents 779 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,800 to operate locally on laptops, phones, even like things like 780 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,480 brain computer interfaces. So they've got big, big visions 781 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,080 for this and then also transacting Bitcoin and USDT. 782 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,120 So they're they're really tying this back to tether and the 783 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,600 stable coins here other key features, local AI execution, 784 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,520 crypto integration, and then open source development. 785 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,200 And if you go and and read through some of Paolo's comments 786 00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:44,160 it, it really does feel like decentralization angle is a big 787 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,440 one kind of coming after big tech and not wanting big tech to 788 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:54,480 be the gatekeeper of of AI and then also to to get crypto in 789 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,040 the door here as well. So I'm, I haven't had a chance 790 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:02,400 to really dig into this and, and get a whole lot of personal 791 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,360 thoughts on this one. Clearly tethered, very well 792 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,040 capitalized Logan. I mean, we, we chatted with 793 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:13,000 Jason, the previous CEO of Lucky Trader, who's deep in the AI 794 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,080 game. He basically, I think his 795 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,000 reaction was it's a big vision. It's going to be hard to, to 796 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,040 pull off right now. AI compute on personal devices 797 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:29,000 is much worse than on higher powered machines and that 798 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,440 perhaps they should go more after Stripe and and look at how 799 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,400 to really integrate Tether. But I'm curious if you have any 800 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,960 reactions to this or? Yeah, I think, you know, 801 00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:43,880 idealistically it sounds great. You know, the idea of the, the 802 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:48,680 decentralized AI in this manner and, and hearing like not, you 803 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,720 know, AI not being monopolized by one company or two companies. 804 00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:56,920 Like, you know, I'm for that. What I didn't get from this, and 805 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,800 some of that may just be my general technological ignorance 806 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,960 is how, you know, like, of course I understand you wanted 807 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,400 to run locally on these, you know, individual machines kind 808 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,120 of putting it in everybody's pocket. 809 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:14,360 But there is no, you know, maybe it's just in a piece to follow 810 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,080 this. There's there's no really, at 811 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:20,800 least in, in my view, there was no clear how is it going to be 812 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,560 done, which makes, you know, forming an opinion on this a 813 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,400 little bit easier. But that that's the part that 814 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,160 I'm still kind of waiting to see is like what what is what is it 815 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:35,360 realistically time frame wise, implementation wise, like it is 816 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,000 it actually going to be possible anytime soon? 817 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:38,960 Obviously they feel that way if they're investing this much 818 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,160 money in it in time, but. They're taking some big swings 819 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,880 and this feels like a, you know, a longer term bet. 820 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,280 They're well capitalized, they're positioned to do this. 821 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,320 It does feel like to answer your question, it looks like they're 822 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,480 building their own architecture to enable this. 823 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,800 So we'll we'll see if they're able to pull it off. 824 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,920 Not necessarily a topic that that we are able to invest in 825 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:06,880 right now, unlike Internet capital markets which are 826 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:11,000 investable. So I think we can't go through 827 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,760 the market report without talking about this. 828 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,280 I mean the numbers are staggering. 829 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,840 They are, they are pulling back here live during the show. 830 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:22,880 It looks like so Longs Coin believe app ecosystem sitting 831 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:28,080 around $400 million right now, $730 million in 24 hour volume. 832 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,600 It looks like their fee numbers have have dropped a bit 833 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,880 overnight. So they're around $2,000,000 as 834 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:36,920 of last night. They're at like 4 and a half 835 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:38,320 million. So I think that they've pulled 836 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,040 in somewhere between 8:00 to $10 million in the last three to 837 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,960 four days. So the fees are strong. 838 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:52,880 Launch coin itself peaked around 360 million, I think 3:40 last 839 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,640 night, holding around 256,000,000 right now. 840 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,800 This comes after somewhat of a big announcement from Ben 841 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,000 Pasternak. The founder said past few days 842 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,480 been wild. We've seen a surge of interest. 843 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,040 We're going to pause on featuring new projects to focus 844 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,640 on the supporting ones. And our priority is making sure 845 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,080 they have tools and resources they need to succeed. 846 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,280 Can I ask a question, Todd? Yeah, very basic question 847 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,160 because I'm out of it. How is Internet Capital markets 848 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,360 different from the game we've been playing for five years? 849 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,440 Like what is that term specifically connotate that has 850 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:32,840 not been part of the game, the crypto game for a while? 851 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:39,560 I'd say it's it's there's a bit more substance than just a pure 852 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,120 shit coin, which is just a ticker, OK. 853 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,640 Whereas this this coin is while it's still a main point, you're 854 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:50,160 not getting equity in any way. It is tied, at least loosely, to 855 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,320 a founder and a product and that. 856 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,680 Some of them. Sure. 857 00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:58,480 And I'll, I'll address that in a second. 858 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,480 And that that founder and product can perhaps integrate 859 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,680 token syncs into their product in the future. 860 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,760 They can figure out a way to tie in token holders into their 861 00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,720 ecosystem in some capacity. Interestingly enough, I mean, it 862 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,680 is very similar to the Jelly Jelly model that that came out 863 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:23,720 back in what January and it was, you know, widely mocked this one 864 00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:26,160 just a little bit more buttoned up. 865 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,360 There's a more of a framework and a team kind of pushing it 866 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,160 forward with the Believe app group. 867 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:36,240 I think to your comment, Logan, I mean, to reach these numbers, 868 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,440 14,000 token launches, there haven't been 14,000 products 869 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,120 launched on the Believe app. There's not 14,000 builders who 870 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,640 have launched this week on this app. 871 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,160 So the way it kind of works with launch coins, you can tweet a 872 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,840 ticker and it launches a coin. So there are thousands of just 873 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:53,920 that that are just pure shit coins launching in this 874 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,960 ecosystem as well. What passionate team had been 875 00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:03,080 doing was featuring one, maybe 2 like more true builders and 876 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:08,560 their products on a daily basis. Perhaps not surprisingly, based 877 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,120 on a lot of the commentary there's, there's not a whole lot 878 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:11,560 of new entrants in this game right now. 879 00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:13,240 So what we're seeing is hyper rotation. 880 00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:16,880 So when a new product comes out, last night's Hot 1 was Yapper. 881 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,760 Yapper came out, ran straight to 20 million. 882 00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:23,360 All the other leaders pulled back 30 to 50%. 883 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,880 So it became this hyper rotation game and basically anyone who 884 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,680 had bought any of these tokens for the most part, with maybe a 885 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:36,880 handful of exceptions, was down on their buys unless you got in 886 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:41,160 super early. I think passion and team saw 887 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,160 that and they're like, hey, we need to pump the brakes on all 888 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:48,680 of this. So I think from from my lens as 889 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,800 a holder of launch coin disclosure, I do hold launch 890 00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,120 coin. I think I personally as bullish 891 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:55,600 that they need to slow this down. 892 00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,600 The hyper rotation was getting very messy. 893 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,960 They also have a pretty big sniper situation happening where 894 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,120 snipers are getting huge chunks of supply of these and dumping 895 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,720 on everyone that needs to be resolved. 896 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,720 It was clearly unsustainable for them to be making $4 million a 897 00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:15,160 day, 4000 launches per day. There's just not enough capital 898 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:16,520 in this ecosystem to support that. 899 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,520 I think slowing down the pace makes sense, but caveat or 900 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,840 asterisk on that. Like they can't slow it to zero. 901 00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:28,120 There needs to be continued launches even with a slower 902 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,040 pace. So I am curious how they will 903 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:34,360 continue to to manage it. But my gut Reed is someone who's 904 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,480 in the trenches is this has kind of stopped everything else in 905 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,000 its tracks. Like the longs coin eco has been 906 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,640 the game for the the past couple days. 907 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,800 And I think that's reflected in the on the decks board. 908 00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:48,720 Like let's look at these trump coins always #1 pretty much 909 00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:51,320 right now with respect to volume, but longs coins too. 910 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:56,040 Yapper, startup Unicorn, those are all launch coin acts. 911 00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,920 I'm not launch coin tokens. Glimpse, I'm not familiar with 912 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:00,160 it. Looks like it is. 913 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,120 Bump is as well. So what? 914 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,800 6 of the top 7 coins by volume are all launch coin. 915 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:11,400 So this is the game right now. I think that the big question is 916 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,360 how long is it going to last? My gut is that they bought 917 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,480 themselves some time with this pivot. 918 00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:19,480 But Logan, you've been falling. I'm curious if you have 919 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,760 connections. Yeah, I definitely think they've 920 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,600 bought themselves some time to answer stats question, at least 921 00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,440 from my opinion, like how is this different from what we've 922 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,800 been doing? I don't really think it is too 923 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,080 much. Of course there is that tie that 924 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:35,880 Jelly, Jelly like thing where you know there are products is 925 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,000 dupe the luxury furniture or there's one of them. 926 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:40,320 It was a luxury furniture company. 927 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,680 It's like there are, there are some things here that are, are 928 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,320 trying to be a little bit different than just pure shit 929 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,720 queenery. The issue being that like it's 930 00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:51,920 not equity, it's just a meme coin for this company. 931 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,080 It's kind of like a Kickstartery type thing. 932 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,520 But not all of these, as Tyler mentioned, not all of them have 933 00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,200 that like built in Kickstarter benefit yet, right? 934 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:03,680 So you're kind of just like buying the token, maybe hoping 935 00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,920 that they give you like a 10% product discount or something. 936 00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,000 So I, I can support the innovation there. 937 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:15,000 I'm totally with that. I'm skeptical in a lot of these 938 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,800 launching at this point in time. I think if you're a founder, you 939 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,960 know, who's struggled to raise capital or wants to raise 940 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,080 capital, like why not take a chance here? 941 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,480 I'm I'm totally OK with that. Can I just? 942 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,000 Say to Jack, are people owning this for a 10% product discount? 943 00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:31,400 Is that no? That was I mean. 944 00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:34,800 But like if they don't think they're going to get equity, are 945 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,000 they just hoping that what do they think they're going to? 946 00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,120 Get that's that's exactly, that's like kind of my point. 947 00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,640 It's like, I don't know if dupe or if any of them have offered 948 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,880 something like that, but right, that's the theoretical right, 949 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:46,120 Tyler. That's like the idealistic 950 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,640 version perhaps is that is that 10? 951 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,600 Percent. Discount is why you want this I. 952 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:53,720 Think that might be a little simplistic? 953 00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:55,400 That's just, that's just an example. 954 00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,280 I, I, I don't know what it would be to offer. 955 00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,000 And that's. What all of us to 0. 956 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,480 That's what that's what Kickstarter is though, right? 957 00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,080 Kind of is like you're giving some sort of benefit for 958 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,640 investing. Otherwise, if there isn't that, 959 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:10,040 even if it is a 10% like it, whatever, make it any percent or 960 00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,800 any benefit. If those aren't there, like why 961 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,280 are we doing this? You're just giving the person 962 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:20,840 money for nothing, which may be, again, maybe in an ideal world, 963 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,160 like you're investing, you know, you're what do you want to call 964 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,520 that charity type thing? I don't know what that's called, 965 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,680 but that's the that's the concern for me for a letting 966 00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,960 this exist outside of a two week bubble is like, how do you get 967 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,000 people to keep buying these tokens and. 968 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:42,040 The problem is the problem is I think you I think it's totally 969 00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,400 fair to be skeptical and perhaps that's that's the right motion. 970 00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,160 I think most of these are going to fail and most of them are 971 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:48,200 going to be able to figure this out. 972 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,520 It's hard to evaluate this objectively on a two week time 973 00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,440 horizon. Like what if it takes one of 974 00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,000 these teams six months to figure out a way to integrate a token? 975 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,960 And I mean even like we talked about wreck does it like a great 976 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,360 Internet capital markets example, the wrecked equity 977 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,800 played out two years into the project. 978 00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:17,800 It was it was far down the line and I think it takes it takes 979 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:19,480 time, yeah. So these builders are going to 980 00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:19,960 so. I would. 981 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:22,000 Agree. Yeah, my bullish scenario here, 982 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,920 if I was if I was running with these would be like, right, how 983 00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:25,560 could I actually get equity in my company? 984 00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:30,680 So these are in some way right. Is there a way for me to do that 985 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,800 legally? And then secondly create some 986 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:37,240 sort of flywheel with the token? But but I don't even know if 987 00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:39,880 that's what and I know statue are part of it. 988 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,200 But like this feels we're not doing anything new. 989 00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:47,400 This kind of feels a little bit like proof or moon birds back in 990 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:51,400 the day, right, like where where it's more like it's come out of 991 00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:57,240 California kind of cruise of start up founders. 992 00:51:57,240 --> 00:51:58,880 We're like, right, we're going to do something and I just don't 993 00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:04,040 even know if they know when you say we haven't like we it's been 994 00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:05,840 2 weeks, we haven't we haven't really seen this. 995 00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,440 I think we've seen this story like 1000 times. 996 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:10,920 Like it happened. It happened all the time during 997 00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:12,440 NFTS. It happened a lot over the last 998 00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,880 few years with like utility mean last year and a half utility 999 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,160 mean coins. I think it's going to be 1000 00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,480 difficult for these, these like more startup as founders to 1001 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,920 realise that these guys wanting to pump their bags and if they 1002 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,160 want equity and they want a flywheel, I don't know how many 1003 00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,920 of that, even though these, these token holders, sorry, 1004 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,080 these token launch companies have any concept of, of what 1005 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:38,880 they need to do to create medium term value. 1006 00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,560 And and yeah, we may find out in a long, long time when the next 1007 00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,520 few months who will do that. Or maybe one person will do it 1008 00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:48,960 and realise that's the best flywheel and then all the others 1009 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,440 will say, hey, yeah, we'll do that too. 1010 00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,560 Maybe maybe that's the the best move, something like that. 1011 00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:57,120 But feels, yeah, it feels pretty tenuous. 1012 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,200 I would highly doubt that the token launchers right now know 1013 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:04,120 what they're getting into from a who's buying this token, who 1014 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:08,320 their consumers are kind of at this point in time. 1015 00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:10,600 I would not want to be someone launching A token. 1016 00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:12,520 I mean, we had this conversation with the with the boop thing, 1017 00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,760 like last week, Tyler, like people didn't want to launch a 1018 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:17,440 token. This is the same type of thing. 1019 00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,920 You're committing yourself in some way to these people. 1020 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,520 The only difference is, yeah, you're you're picking up like 1021 00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,440 sizable fee payments almost right away. 1022 00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:29,400 Well, that that's something your founder, you're going to notice 1023 00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:30,560 right away. You are. 1024 00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:32,160 Yeah, you. Want to keep that going? 1025 00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:37,400 The Yapper founder has made $1.17 million in fees since they 1026 00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,920 launched at 6:00 PM last night. What is Yapa? 1027 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:46,640 What does it do? It is from it's Let me try to 1028 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,000 find the It's a deep fray on. There. 1029 00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,240 Yeah. That's part of that's part of it 1030 00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:56,560 too, right? I believe it's had some fairly 1031 00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:58,280 big success. No further questions. 1032 00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:02,200 No further questions. Thank you, Tara. 100 million 1033 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:04,080 views. I don't know this guy's full 1034 00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:12,320 back story, but so And this was a curated launch, so Pasternak 1035 00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:14,480 shared this one. Amanda, what was it that made 1036 00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,360 you say no further questions? What's what was the ridiculous 1037 00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,840 statement? Because it's just like it's no 1038 00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:21,320 one knows even know what's the product is. 1039 00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,440 This is just a, this is just the Ponzi, right? 1040 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,360 Like it's just whatever's coming today. 1041 00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:26,040 I. Disagree. 1042 00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:27,960 So I, I didn't really trade that one. 1043 00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:30,040 So I didn't like do a bunch of due diligence. 1044 00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,240 On it all right, OK, I thought I thought it was 1 you own but but 1045 00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:36,280 the one thing that struck out to me is what you said and look I I 1046 00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:38,440 said told told you I think. It's because he did no due 1047 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:39,800 diligence does not mean he doesn't know. 1048 00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:44,640 Oh yeah. Of course, the one thing that 1049 00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,240 took out to me is you said a coin ran to 20 million and 1050 00:54:47,240 --> 00:54:50,800 everything else nukes. That tells me that there's no 1051 00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,520 new entrance. Yeah, AI coins used to run to 1052 00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:58,640 100 plus like 200 and then they then that would cause other 1053 00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:00,800 coins to nuke. But like we used to see huge 1054 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,800 runs, right. That tells you like the dregs of 1055 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:08,680 his left on this sort of on this matter of like right as to a 1056 00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:10,680 start up. And then they they literally had 1057 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,480 to tell the the app itself had to say, look, we need to calm 1058 00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:17,640 down because 20 million is in November. 1059 00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:23,280 That was like nothing, right? No, like random coins were at 1060 00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,400 20. Yeah, straight away I think it's 1061 00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:32,040 it's signing the times for sure. And I so I think you're spot on. 1062 00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,560 No new entrance. I feel like this all started way 1063 00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:37,840 too fast. It blew up way too big and he 1064 00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,520 really had to slow the pace or like it was really just going to 1065 00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:46,120 speed run this whole thing. And I mean, there's been 14,000 1066 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:50,640 launches basically in the last three days, four days. 1067 00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:56,720 It's too, it's too many and I'm purchasing. 1068 00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,080 So every single day, I'm thinking multiple hours per day 1069 00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,400 how to handle this. And if I think it's going to 1070 00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,960 continue to go, it's going to continue to dip. 1071 00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:06,640 And we lost me and I know we'll wrap things up here shortly. 1072 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,080 It's a tricky 1 because in a lot of ways, I feel like this is 1073 00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:14,840 stronger than virtuals. It has potential to be better 1074 00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:19,280 than virtuals bigger. But a lot of things have to go 1075 00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,440 right. They have to have some some good 1076 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,040 products launch. They can't have anyone who who's 1077 00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:26,760 buying a token go straight to 0 when the next product launches 1078 00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:28,400 as well. But Logan, I guess. 1079 00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,080 Yeah, I'm just thinking. I'm thinking through it with you 1080 00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:35,680 here live as well. I'm I'm totally for this type of 1081 00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:37,560 thing. The issue is going to be you 1082 00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:42,320 can't just keep burning the consumers or the buyers of these 1083 00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,080 tokens. I don't want to conflate 1084 00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:48,480 consumer of these potential products, but like if this is 1085 00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,080 great for the founders, like this potential thing, right, For 1086 00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,800 people who have either struggled to get to raise capital or just 1087 00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:57,000 want to be a little unconventional in the way they 1088 00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,200 raise capital. Like this seems like a a really 1089 00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,320 interesting idea. And of course, it's, it's 1090 00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:05,640 obviously proven itself even in this two week span, you know, 1091 00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,760 for a very small short period of time, it is proven its ability 1092 00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:10,920 to do so to raise the money for these people. 1093 00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,400 The difficult part is like, OK, six months out, what does 1094 00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,760 happen, like is the token at zero. 1095 00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:19,840 And then all these people that bought, like if, if you start to 1096 00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,040 see that play out over and over and over again and people stop 1097 00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:26,040 buying the tokens and then people don't fundraise via this 1098 00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,600 and then it's all over, right? Like I I just don't know how you 1099 00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:39,640 sustain any real or enough real token like token launches to to 1100 00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:44,080 just extend this thing out and to make it worthwhile for so 1101 00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:47,120 many participants. Well, I think part of it, part 1102 00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:49,640 of it because I think you need like the Nikita Beers of the 1103 00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:53,240 world, you need them to, to perhaps pull in a larger base, 1104 00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:55,280 right? And I don't know if that's naive 1105 00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:57,040 to think that what two people are going to come in and buy 1106 00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,880 these probably is naive, right? I'm just saying like that's a 1107 00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:01,680 potential example. Of. 1108 00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:05,840 What might need to happen? But they keep saying laundry 1109 00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,600 list of of real founders. And I think if more real 1110 00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:11,200 founders and builders come to this, it's going to attract more 1111 00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,560 attention. Yeah, I think so too. 1112 00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:16,160 I'm not ruling that out in any way. 1113 00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,840 Like someone for myself, right? Like I, I've not actively been 1114 00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,200 participating in this. Of course, I wish I had been. 1115 00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,880 It's been a boon for anybody who's been actively playing in 1116 00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:29,800 the last week or so. But like to get me to buy one of 1117 00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,280 these tokens outside of, and I'm talking about the launch tokens, 1118 00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:37,480 like from these companies or founders or product whatever to 1119 00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:41,880 get me to buy one of them knowing that there is it's just 1120 00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:43,760 a meme attached to their product. 1121 00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,760 Like I, I sort of want something in return for that. 1122 00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:49,760 You know what I mean? Like thinking about that, like 1123 00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,520 if I maybe just because I keep comparing it to Kickstarter and 1124 00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:55,680 it's slightly different than that, like I sort of want some 1125 00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:57,520 sort of thing in return. And that's what they can't 1126 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,000 really offer, right? They can't offer me equity for 1127 00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,080 it. I guess maybe they could include 1128 00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:06,320 the token sync in a, you know, like I said, like a discounty 1129 00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:10,360 type thing, but I'm not seeing that at least in these product 1130 00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:14,320 launches just yet, right? Like no founder has it drawn out 1131 00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:17,000 to where, hey, this is what we're going to do with the token 1132 00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:20,400 type thing. That's the type of stuff that I 1133 00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,280 would want to see. And of course, maybe that takes 1134 00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,040 time. Maybe that can never happen. 1135 00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,360 I don't know, because there's obviously legal ambiguity, 1136 00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:31,600 ambiguity that I'm not equipped or knowledgeable enough to to 1137 00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:32,680 comment on here. So. 1138 00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:36,920 We'll see. I I I still am in the campus. 1139 00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:40,560 It's very hard to judge this experiment on a 5 day time 1140 00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:44,360 horizon. Clearly there's froth already in 1141 00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,240 this market and and we're seeing it play out. 1142 00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:52,360 I think it's a pretty pivotal few days with this, with this 1143 00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,120 recent pivot from passion and slowing down the pace. 1144 00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,440 So we'll see how this ecosystem continues to to hold up. 1145 00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,520 But I mean, it's the main game. If you're in the salon trenches 1146 01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:03,040 right now, this is it. So we're going to continue to 1147 01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:06,920 cover it because there's a whole lot of other action. 1148 01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:09,160 We're running out of time. We're not going to talk about 1149 01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,560 some of the other NFTS stories, but those eat those NFTS. 1150 01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:16,160 It's a nice, nice little rally. So do terrific and it all NFTS. 1151 01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,440 So maybe we'll cover those on tomorrow's show. 1152 01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:19,960 But folks, we're 5 minutes over at the hour mark. 1153 01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:21,400 We're going to go ahead and wrap things up. 1154 01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:23,840 I want to thank all of our listeners for joining us here 1155 01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:25,240 today. I want to thank my Co host, one 1156 01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:27,280 of the stats for stopping by. Incredible conversation. 1157 01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:31,040 Thank you so much folks. Have a great day and we'll talk 1158 01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:31,520 to you tomorrow. Bye.