Good morning everyone and welcome to another episode of
FOMO. Our today is Friday, June 27th,
2025. And folks, it was in fact joyful
June, just not for our magic Internet money for stocks.
The China trade deal supposedly done more peace potentially in
the Middle East and the stock market is loving at finding new
all time highs here again this morning.
And yet our crypto coins just continue to chop and go
sideways. And now we're asking, will it be
a joyful July? We're going to break it all down
on today's show. No for Oak Mando going to be
stopping by, but we've got stats in the house along with Logan
stats. Do you how you doing?
What's up? Man, how you doing?
Doing great, even even better now.
Happy that we were able to to convince you to come up.
Oh yeah, no, I mean, we discussed it Tuesday and I'm in
when I'm in. You know that.
I love that we got to talk about is Donald Trump going to win the
Nobel Peace Prize in 2025? That's the that's the hottest
question on my mind this morning.
So I'm I'm very curious for your thoughts on that.
Logie, thanks for being with us all week, my friend.
Jim, how are you doing of? Course, Yeah, good morning.
I'm doing well. Temperatures finally dropping,
but bringing the market down with them here in PA, so I don't
know, feels like it's OK. Long week, beautiful week.
For the most part, I can't complain too much.
You know, it might have been one of those first 30 minute
shakeouts because we did do everything Bitcoin down to one
of those 66, but now we're already back up folks.
We got Mando on with us as well here this morning.
Mando, GM. How?
Are you fantastic? How are you?
Doing great folks. We we have a full house.
I'm excited for today's show. As we look to wrap up the week.
What are we talking about? We're going to start with the
market report. This China trade deal supposedly
done, perhaps peace with Gaza in the next two weeks.
Stocks at all time high, big moves and rate cut offs this
morning as well. We'll talk about that.
Coinbase stock hitting a new all time high yesterday on the back
of their perps crypto perhaps in 401 KS.
I want to talk about that. In some recent polling I did,
we've got 2 new $1 billion crypto treasury companies in the
past 24 hours. That's not slowing down.
I want to talk about David Sacks saying it's going to be a big
July Legend Nano S being phased out.
A bit of a surprise. Has Info 5 gone too far?
And a lot more before we dive into it shout out to our partner
starting with wallet connect wallet connect is the
connectivity network shaping the future of on chain UX.
If you've connected to a web 3 app, you've seen wallet connect
that blue logo, it's everywhere, an icon of trust in crypto as
recognizable as Visa at the checkout.
If you want to learn more, follow at Wallet Connect on X
and Telegram to stay ahead of what's next.
And Cracking Pro gives active traders exactly what they need,
deep liquidity, full customization, and 350 plus
trading pairs. Build your own layout with drag
and drop modules and trade seamlessly across desktop or
mobile. Go to pro.cracking.com and trade
without tradeoffs. We got into this yesterday.
Big news out of Kraken this week, they lost the new crack
app. It is their global payments app
competing with Venmo, PayPal and more with a crypto twist.
So go check that out as well. All right, we've got a lot to
get into. Oh yeah, I didn't mention two
eat winners today. It's park corn.
Friday, I buried the lead. What we will do?
Double winners here and do a coin race at the end of the
show. So we're always excited about
that. Mando, if you're ready, let's
get into it. Can you dig it?
GM everyone. So yeah, I think a bit of just a
stable day, if I'm honest. I was trying to look through
news that was really moving the market.
Bitcoin did had like they think all the way up to about 108 K
yesterday and then and then touched I think close to 1:06.
And but it's been it's been relatively stable.
I would say in terms of altcoin movers again it's been it's been
mixed. I would say again say is is
seemingly having a good day. But in terms of Bitcoin Solana
Eve, most of them are kind of unchanged on the day.
Again, haven't really seen any great outperformance by by
anyone, although altcoins have felt a little bit better, I
would say on the whole than than they have been feeling.
So that's a decent sign. I think the main story here
though is just that the focus seems to be on crypto stocks and
it's not just crypto. There's like been big moves in
some like robotic stocks and some AI stocks, but feels as
though Coinbase in an all time high is probably the biggest
news of the day. Because I think a lot of people
consider like Coinbase almost like a major at this stage.
And it's taking, I think it's taking some of the focus away
from, from altcoins, from just the crypto markets in general,
even in a, in a period where we continue to see decent inflows
into ETF products kind of across the board.
But but yeah, Coinbase being up 20% over the last five days.
That's that's a pretty big move if you, if you consider that
kind of like a major, so to speak, It's and that's, it's,
that's obviously on the back of the big move in Robin Hood stock
and circle. And yeah, decent move in some of
the some of the miners too. So yeah, it's just interesting
to see that this narrative has come back.
They are all down a little bit today.
So coin based on circle both goes down just like about 5-6
percent today. So coming back off the highs,
but that is the, I don't know the focus I think of the
majority of the market. Yeah, I think that is fair.
A bit surprising to see that Coinbase move.
I'll get into it in a minute. A few macro headlines that I did
see and I'm curious for your thoughts and maybe pull stats
into this as well. So we got kind of surprise sound
bite news out of Trump yesterday that they officially signed a
deal with China and he said it was done a couple days ago.
So I thought that was fairly noteworthy.
Yeah. Then I think we also saw, yeah,
some talk of rate cuts. We also saw there was a
different comment that they're talking about that Trump and
Netanyahu agreed to end hostilities in Gaza within two
weeks and expand these Abraham Accords.
That felt like fairly big, just as well done.
No, that's why. Yeah, I think there were
definitely a few macro headlines yesterday.
So like you said, it was this this story that we could be
getting a deal out of China. And the USI saw Trump mention
that a couple of officials mentioned this had been done,
but maybe not all the details. It seems as though there's going
to be some tariffs left in place, but they've they're going
to be less than what they have been.
And I don't know what the all the side deals are for something
like that, but that's in place. And then, yeah, I think you, it
seems very likely again that we're going to get a September
rate cut. There's been some talk about
that, some slightly weaker data coming out of the jobs market,
which think allows them to to do that.
And there was some weak data coming out of China as well this
morning. But macro seems quiet to me now.
And I, I very much as we spoke about on the show earlier this
week, I, I very much expect a post for now broader ceasefire
that's peace deal across across the Middle East.
I think that will be in reach. I've got, I've got some
reactions to that. I'm looking at the rate cut odds
here first. So just last week it was at 30%
chance to to hold rate cuts steady in September and now
that's down to 9%. So that's pretty substantial.
We're at 90% chance of of one or two cuts in September.
So that's heavily favored. And then I was looking at just
the end of year and it's 80% or 89% chance or 99% chance rather
of at least one cut. We've got 45% chance now of
three. That is the a pretty significant
move in that market. It was at just 27% last week,
so. What do you make?
What do you make of this Coinbase versus hype situation
do you think? Do you think Coinbase is now?
There's a lot of, oh, you know, Coinbase is about to take over
this. I saw some stuff about the tax
benefits of using Coinbase yesterday, but at the same time
that we've seen this before with like big product launches and
Coinbase doesn't necessarily do that.
Well. Obviously people remember
Coinbase NFTS, but even you know, Coinbase international
features is not a huge bit of the market or at least a perp
product is not a huge bit of the market.
Do you think this is this is one of a big headline?
Do you think people will will use it more than than maybe the
market's expecting? Do you think it's bad for pipe
liquid? And then do you think no, I
guess those are the 2 main ones. Like it kind of feels slightly
like the pump fun headline to me now.
Like it's like an overhang until the end of July where like hype
has been this amazing trade and now people have a reason to be
maybe slightly bearish on it. I mean, I, I haven't sold the
the the hype that I bought on that bounce on that dip, sorry.
But it does make me think that it's not going to hit all time
high before the the end of July. And that makes me think that,
you know, it could get beaten down.
I, I don't know what, what, what you, what's your read on it,
Tyler? I think that's fair.
I think my, my gut read is that the the user base that's using
trading perps on hyper liquid is not at risk to move over to
Coinbase. And then I think you can even
paint a bull case that Coinbase will perhaps grow the the
broader perps pie and get more folks into this market.
I think that's a little bit more of a stretch for me right now.
I don't know who is the marginal user who is interested in perps
but just hasn't been doing it over the last five years because
it wasn't offered in their Coinbase account.
But I guess maybe you can make the argument that they just
aren't familiar with what it is. I've heard the some chatter
about, you know, more traditional traders who just do
options and they see perps in their eyes open super wide like
wow, this is awesome stats. Maybe I'll I'll listen to you
and you've got more of a background in in finance than
me. Curious for your thoughts if you
if you think there will be hunger for this product.
Yeah. I mean, I think there will be,
I, I, I personally, I don't know, I haven't like done like
dug deep into the data or whatever, but I, I just see hype
as such a different product and audience than Coinbase.
And maybe that's stupid. I just kind of like associate it
more with the people who kind of live online or who, who kind of
live in Web 3 versus Coinbase, which is just, you know, kind of
a gateway for the United States consumer into crypto and, and
just feels like a different audience.
I, I think I can see a world where you start seeing a lot
more people trading perps because of Coinbase, But I, I
have a hard time seeing that as like some big overhang for hyper
liquid. It just, they, they strike me as
pretty different markets, which, you know, more competition is
never a good thing. Don't get me wrong.
I mean, but I, I just yeah, it, it, it, it wasn't the first
thing that that jumped to mind for me.
I guess it does. You do have to factor in their
growth. So like what are their growth?
What is hyper liquid growth? Yeah, from here, especially if
you the other overhang, and I'll see if I can pull this up, is
Robin Hood teased a pretty big announcement coming on Monday.
And if they're going to throw their hat in this ring, does
that make this even more essentially crowded splits?
Yeah. To catch a token, a moment in
crypto, you won't want to miss. Live stream on Monday at 11 AM
Eastern. Interesting.
What does this mean you think? Yeah.
And this is coupled with that promotion they're doing for
depositing crypto, right? It's kind of pre leading into
this a little bit. Yeah, quick side so quickly,
Robin Hood is going on the offensive on the offense of
trying to get users to deposit crypto on their app, 2% deposit
match or any crypto deposited on their app and held for a year.
You do have to look at the fine print.
The fine print makes it seem a you can't touch it, you can't
withdraw it within that year, and they can claw it back if the
amount deposited goes down in the year.
So I interpreted that and you could make an interpretation
that if Bitcoin drops 2% in the next 20, next 12 months, that
perhaps you lose that deposit. So I think maybe do your own
research on that specific deposit match before you go and
move all your balances over. But clearly I think that the
higher signal is they're going after they're going after it
right now. What do I think this is?
If I had to guess, I think I would probably guess perps.
Boogie Robin. I was gonna say Robin Hood meme
coin but that was just a joke. I I actually don't have any clue
this this e-mail hit inboxes earlier this week, something
that I've flagged to pay attention to.
Didn't really dig far beyond then of course, coupled with
that announcement regarding the deposits perps I think is a good
guess. I could see maybe like a lending
type thing, you know, they're asking for deposits, they're
trying to get your crypto on the app like I, I would imagine it's
tied in some way to that. That's my guess.
What? Types of things.
Open though. Yeah, I don't, I don't know.
I feel like perps to me, but just if I was if let's let's put
on I'm the marketing agency that's done this campaign like
what to catch a like what? What else could it possibly be?
Like? Why am I?
Maybe it's a token launchpad to? Catch a token and I'm kind of
reacting to this live here for the first time.
I saw this and I didn't have a chance to really think through
it ahead of the show. Is it some sort of like, you
know, the token is some sort of reward, you know, is that just
this is just the additional stuff on top of the deposits
thing? That would be kind of lame, but.
I don't know in our comments is saying to catch a token equals
to catch a perp. That's an interesting,
interesting analogy, throwing back from some of those TV shows
that we had. To Catch a Predator, Yes,
exactly. Wow, maybe, maybe Chris Hansen's
going to come out and and launch, launch the Robin Hood
perp platform. I think let's kind of pull pull
this back a bit. Could it be tokenized,
tokenized, stock stuff or no? Tokenized stocks, yeah, could be
possible. No, I mean what do you need?
Tokenized stocks on Robin Hood? You can just buy stocks for
free. I don't know, I don't know.
What's the advantage? I mean, easier to transfer off
the Robin Hood platform, but I can buy, I can buy any stock on
Robin Hood for free right now. Yeah, probably not that one
stash. Do you have a read on just like
the? Broader stocking is a solution
in need of a problem. Like I, I mean, maybe there's
some there there when it comes to international folks or people
who don't have access to all these platforms or whatever.
But like trading stocks in America is free, literally.
Zero, I don't know. I'm happy to take the other side
of that one. I actually think, I think we're
seeing this, this larger trend right now is just the the blur
like blurring the lines between crypto and Tranfi and being able
to do all of these different types of financial transactions
in in one place. And whether that your home base
is on chain, soon you're going to be able to do everything on
chain. Or if you're, if your home base
is within these Robin Hood style apps or even your home bank,
soon you're going to be you're going to be able to do just
about everything there as well. And I think I said on the show
the other the other day, I've actually got more free capital
and liquidity to play with on chains sometimes than I do with
like the bank account. So sometimes it actually is
interesting for me to be able to to actually flip profits from a
meme coin into a tokenized stock trade versus having to go
through other routes. So I actually do see a demand
for that. But can I, can I add 22 little
things to this that for from my perspective, one, they've LED
with central, eastern or whatever that is summertime,
Central European summertime. Is that correct?
And in early May, a Bloomberg report indicated that Robin Hood
was planning to they were investigating, right?
Expressing interest in tokenizing securities on the
Ethereum blockchain. Why?
Why would they lead with the European time here?
Well, that's what I'm saying. I think there's some users like
for us and maybe not all of us. I mean, I think that, I think, I
think Tyler's point is right. Like there are people who who
just kind of keep their finances on, on a Ledger or on Metamask
or wherever they keep their, their on chain.
And, but you know, and, and what I LED with is like, yeah, I mean
to, to, to a European, it's probably a lot harder to buy, to
buy circle stock than it is for me who has a Vanguard Schwab,
Fidelity Interactive broker account in Robin Hood where I
can literally buy any stock for free at any moment.
But yeah, I, I think the idea of international holders or to
Tyler's point, maybe a new generation of folks who just
kind of make on chain their hub. Maybe there's, maybe there's
some use case there. I'd still stand by the idea that
for Robin Hood it makes no sense because it is extremely easy to
buy any stock on Robin Hood in a way that the only thing
tokenization would do is it'd make it easier to take your
money off of Robin Hood. And they're paying 2% to all
their customers to move their money onto Robin Hood.
That that that strikes me. I mean they're literally saying
if you move your 401K here, 100 grand, we will give you 2 grand
of free money. So it just seems like it's a
product whose only use case would be to help people get
money off of Robin Hood. Doesn't feel like something
they'd be prioritizing, but. Logan, one thing I think you did
point out that probably is a good clue.
So this is during Eve Cannes. Eve Cannes is next week.
It starts. Only Tyler even knows that that
exists. Feels like a conference every
week. I only know that exists because
my wife was Justin Cannes, so I've been following.
NYC happening this week, is that right?
I think so. I actually don't know the actual
answer to that. I think people are in New York.
City, someone said. Someone said, oh, you're going
to be in NYC. I was like, what's for what?
Oh NFTNYCI was like I had just forgotten that that was even
happening. Well, permissionless did happen
in NYC this week, which is a bigger conference.
There's a lot of conference NFC. There are too many conferences.
I, I don't know how people go to all these or, or I guess
somebody more seriously, I don't know how there can be compelling
content for attendees at all these conferences when they're
running them out multiple per month.
Things just don't like we're in a fairly accelerated time period
for crypto right now. I think I don't know there's
that much many speeches or topics you can give to capture
an audience's attention on a week over week basis.
At least that's, that's my quick tangent.
But we will see what comes out on Monday.
And if, if it's going to pump our ETH bags, because I do think
Logan, you're, you're right. There is some ETH component to
this, if I had to bet. So we'll, we'll have more info
on Monday. I want to pull us back to some
of the intro and Stas. I'm, I'm curious for this
question, Mando, I'm curious for your answer to this as as well
as someone not in the US. So Trump is five months in
approaching the his first six month report card.
We have potentially a trade deal with China.
We have potentially peace in the Middle East.
What? What grade are you giving him
six months in? It's a good question.
I think you kind of have to be objective here and say that a
lot of the things that he was elected on have either taken
longer or don't seem like they're necessarily going to
happen. So the fiscal conservatism kind
of feels like it's out the window at this stage, right?
Like 10 years gone higher. He's introduced a bill which has
increased budget deficit. Doge is kind of dead now.
So like that bit of it, which I always felt was like the bit
that was most likely to fall by the wayside.
It it feels like it's slightly falling by the wayside on the on
the wars and peace like bit. I think the last week was really
helped the credibility around like a path of that now.
And like maybe by the end of the summer, you get deals both in
Russia, Ukraine and in the Middle East.
And that would be, I think, considered like a big win,
although potentially how he got there clearly, you know, split
some of his base. And then on the immigration
stuff, it's just become like, it's very, very clear, like your
ability to your ability to deport people.
Like that's the case for any, any country, right?
Like a lot of politicians around the world come in and say, hey,
we're going to start deporting people.
Normally it costs like hundreds of thousands of dollars to
support like one person. Like this is what people don't
understand when, when politicians get, get, get
elected for this sort of stuff, It's not, it's not some like
super easy thing to do and you have to work out where they're
going to go. So I, I, I always felt like that
was never really going to happen.
But it does feel at least not in scale that I think that that
with maybe he was elected under the promises, but it does feel
like there's maybe going to a change in some of the policies
around there on an ongoing basis.
So going forward, you might see some changes there.
So if that's what you voted for, I think that he's done well on
some things. Other things have become more
difficult and are clearly going to be more drawn out and caught
up in bureaucracy. And he and he's kind of actually
drifted away pretty hard from the fiscal conservatism side,
which which won over, I think a large but large bit of the like
the billionaire class that kind of that kind of came close to
him with with Elon, right. There was this idea that we're
going to make, we're going to we're going to turn the US
government into a tech firm and and we're going to cut the the
blow. All that, all that sort of stuff
feels that like that's that's kind of formed by the wayside.
So mixed. I think that's.
Fair. I think I'm I'd like.
To I think the, the, the things out there and one, the China
deal is a fabricated problem. You know, I feel like bombing
Iran and then having peace in two days and saying I'm the
peace president feels fabricated.
So I don't think these are like big WS.
I mean, the, the like the stuff he went out on a limb on, like
Ukraine and Russia is going to be over on day one.
It's like it was not hard to know that this is a multi decade
long ethnic conflict. So the fact that he was
blindsided by the fact that this is much more difficult than and
on day one is something that I think anybody could have told
you 6 months ago. But yeah, I mean, you bomb Iran
and then you declare peace and say you're the peace president.
You, you know, I mean, Israel has basically tattered Palestine
to shreds. Like, the minute Netanyahu
decides it's over, it's over. And, and I think Mando's point,
at least, the people I know who are kind of the most in the
Trump camp were so 'cause they thought of fiscal conservatism.
And that doesn't feel like it's something that is on the table
anymore. It feels like we're spending a
lot. I feel like the deficit's going
to be just as expanded this year as it was under Biden, despite
prosperity. Like I wouldn't say that this is
a time of insane conflict. So I mean, if if your goal was
to make it so there were no more illegal immigrants, whoever
entered this country, then I think you see what he's done as
a huge win. If your goal was continuation of
what's been a 20 year stock market rally, I think there's
been a huge win. The dollar is at is down 14% in
three months. So the dollar is getting
shattered. The bond market is kind of
predicting longer term problems because of the fiscal concern.
So I don't know, it just depends on what your personal priorities
or goals were for him. But I think this whole look at
the piece, look at the trade deals, I mean, these were
fabricated problems in some cases that I don't think I'm
like out here, you know, that I'm out here going crazy about,
you know, made for TV deportions.
Like, yeah, I mean, like deportations.
Like, for me, that stuff rubs me the wrong way.
I think there's some people who love seeing undocumented people
get taken from the streets and sent to prison.
So like, for some people, that really is like what gets their
juices flowing For me, that's not, you know, so I think a lot
of the stuff that's kind of under the scenes as far.
As it just kind of depends on your personal bias.
For me, that stuff's pretty hard, you know, But for other
people, that's what makes them happy.
So it's it's hard. It's hard for me to sit here and
tell someone else. What do they?
Yeah, I think fairly objective takes hard to argue with with
any of those. I seem to agree.
I think 1 aspect we haven't talked about was crypto
specifically, which I think is a little bit easier to give him a
positive rating on. Well with with the asterisk that
his personal family dealings could be the the biggest risk
facing the the industry. I'm not a big like, I think the
crypto stuff is good. Like yes, like we have an
administration that like clearly cares a lot about normalizing
crypto. I think that the question is
what what how does this play out over two to three years?
I think to me, the meme coin that he launched was quite
negative. I just think it kind of made a
mockery of the space a little bit.
It made a mockery of him in my view.
It's a lot of like just corruption that is just so
gatewayed via that. Like I have a but but but I do
think like, yeah, from, from a perspective of do you feel much
more comfortable building in crypto in America?
Like no question, you know, like do you feel much more
comfortable that the IRS is less likely to come after you?
I'd say probably you're feeling pretty good about that.
Like I like a lot of this stuff. Do you feel like if you're
cybercongs that the SEC is going to come out?
Like I think a lot of the stuff that really kept people up at
night is no longer a thing. And and that that stuff is
certainly positive for the space, no question.
Do we have any predictions, Do we have any predictions for the
big month of July that that David Sachs is now teasing
David? Sachs sounds like an NFT founder
man, and I've learned not to trust NFT.
Having worked for two NFT companies.
I've learned to not trust NFT founders.
So. Loomis, Loomis has has mastered
that. I mean, Trump also is quite good
at that. And and Sachs is, is learning
clearly. Yeah, July will be a big month,
folks. That was the first headline that
I saw and I thought it ended there.
But then he said with the bill signing for the Genius Acts and
clarity, the market structure bill going to the Senate, if
it's just those two things, I mean, I think that's clearly
good, huge positives. I think those are also somewhat
expected at this point. I think that the rally that we
saw in circle stock, the rally we saw in coin stock was largely
on the back of the Genius Act passing the House.
So it feels like something that is priced in.
I said on yesterday's show we talked about a little bit, I
think wild card is the is crypto accumulation and will we see any
kind of announcements related at least to a plan for that.
I think that's where you could get a a joyful July scenario.
I think a big question is how long does this treasury thing
keep going right? Like right now you can raise
$100 million and pay out your investors $130 million
conservatively in three weeks. You know, and as long as that's
true and that is all money that is flowing into into crypto.
And it's money that's flowing into crypto not cuz people
believe in crypto, but because there's basically an arbitrage
out there. And I to me, it's like if this
continues, that's billions dollars more inflow.
And right now, as you said, like there's no sign of it slowing
down. I fairly am certain that this
will not continue for a long time because it acts like it is
one of those things that truly, truly, truly makes no sense to
me. But for the fact that there's
this paradigm in the marketplace.
And then the question is how does that get unwound?
Does it get unwound? Well, I guess I'll just kind of
continue to hold this treasury company because it's just a good
proxy for owning crypto. Or does it become a thing where
they start trading at a discount and people are like, well, if
it's trading at a discount, we might as well sell the crypto
and pay people back at par and give people free money back.
Like, you know, I mean, Mando suggested they'll be
acquisitions. I, I, I kind of wonder about
that because if you start acquiring too many of these,
eventually you trade at a discount.
But there is a lot of money that is flowing into this.
And it is to me. To me, this is like I've said
this to you, Tyler. I think there will be a
mockumentary about the crazy things that were said during
this period to justify these premiums.
I still have not heard a single thing that's made any sense,
with maybe the exception of Sailor.
And even there I still don't buy it.
But yeah. It's a bet on the operator of
the speedboat cruising, guiding the boat through the river
versus just being at the the whims of the current.
I mean, I haven't, I haven't seen any, any evidence that
these guys are doing anything other than putting oil in the
speed bone driving. That's that's something that
surprised me is that actually the premiums for the Bitcoin
companies seem to be higher than the premiums for the for the
other L ones, right. So like where you could argue
that like, right, they're going to create some form of recurring
income here, like they're going to do some something in Defy or
they're going to do something in staking or something like that.
That's the thing that's almost surprised me more.
It's been like Bitcoin premiums are high.
And maybe that's because like people think all these other
assets are trash and then they'll go all go lower.
But it, it, I agree, the equity story just, it doesn't make
sense. But I, what I don't agree with
you is that we're going to come to an end to this.
I actually think, I actually think we're going to be doing
this for a long time, like at least a year.
Wow. I will, I will take the other
side very wholeheartedly on that.
I, I think that would, I'd say within six months these things
stop trading at Abreva and become untenable.
A lot spins in the market, right?
They're not already untenable though, right?
They just sell the assets. Like.
They just become boring. Well, you start trading at a
discount, then it becomes a weight on crypto.
As opposed to as opposed to a as opposed to a positive.
I think I think it will be another year of this stuff, but
before like the chickens come to roost essentially.
I think I think we'd we will, they'll start to trade a really
bad discount if something systemic hit markets, I reckon.
And crypto, like if crypto nosedive to like 70K right now,
these things would get slaughtered.
Like they would get absolutely slaughtered.
But I think you probably have to have a pretty bearish view on
crypto for the like the chickens to come home to roost here.
I think. I think this really gets exposed
badly in the way that you'll describe it when you know during
like when sailor stock traded at a discount, which is like
throughout the whole bear market, right?
I mean SPAX were the little engine that could and ceased to
be during the bull market. Like eventually there is just
too much supply. And I guess that's part of my
bare case on these things is like, as long as these things
trade at a premium, it is so easy to make money that supply
will just completely continue to flood the market until even in a
bull market, there is just too much.
And the fact that there's absolutely no narrative
whatsoever to justify it, like I think makes it even harder.
And I'm not surprised that it's Bitcoin ones that are doing well
because the reason they're doing well is because sailors doing
well, like these things are doing well 'cause all those
decks just say, look at what Microstrategy's trading at.
Well, that's a Bitcoin company. If I start saying, if I, if I
start buying something else, people are like, well, where's
the, where's the comp that I can like say this is free money
with? And it's 'cause this is all
narrative, silly driven, you know, it's not driven by
anything else. The decks do say that, which is
why I laughed. But I, I just want to set the
stage for our, our casual listeners who may not have been
following this. This week alone, we've had three
$1 billion corporate treasury companies spun up and, and like
a dozen overall at various sizes.
But we got just in the past day, there's been two, this M3
Brigade company, it's from Tether and Blackstone Vets.
And then this digital asset platform backed is raising a
billion or selling a billion in securities for a potential
Bitcoin play. On Monday, we had Anthony
Pompeiano's Pro Capital come out at a billion as well.
The pace is accelerating. It can't keep accelerating from
here much though, right? Like I feel like I'm in the
camp. I'm somewhere between you 2 that
I agree with Amanda that I can see this going out for a year.
I can actually see it going longer, but not at this
breakneck pace. Like, are we going to have
multiple $1 billion corporate treasury companies spinning up
per week? That feels crazy.
Like it feels frothy right now. What I think, what I think what
we will see is more what I've said to you before, which is
that the, I think there's a good chance here that you see more of
the, the real bulk of the NASDAQ approach Treasury strategies
here for, for crypto, not, not random X hotel company from
Japan, Like, you know, like if Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Apple
decided, hey, we're going to put 5% of our corporate treasury,
something like that. Those are the sort of headlines
because you're starting to see the moves in stocks for it.
And these people are driven by stock price to a large extent.
And they, a lot of them have a ton of cash, like absurd amounts
of cash, which they find actually quite difficult to, to,
to do things with. Like mergers are, are often
difficult. They've just related to buybacks
in recent years. But I think we're just by the
end of this year, we'll see that for sure.
So are we in agreement this is bullish for our crypto coins in
the near term and the longer term is a little still TBD?
You can make the bare case. It makes the bear, yeah, it
makes the bear market worse for sure.
This is leverage by by way of like all this is as stat says,
these aren't long term holders like the people doing the
financing here. They're in for a quick buck and,
and and that will mean that when they start trading a discount,
they'll just be like, yeah, let's just sell the Bitcoin,
right so. Yeah.
Are they destroying our chances at an alt season?
Is the net marginal dollar that's flowing into these
Treasury companies taking away I?
Don't know what alts you want to buy, but I look through so many
alts at the moment because I've, I've actually been looking at
the other side of that trade, which is like the short side.
And man, we just have so many different altcoins with just no
product market fit. No, no, no users, terrible
tokenomics. Look at like maybe, maybe, maybe
let's just focus on NFTS for a little bit.
And some of the NFT companies like that, you know, decentral
land. So it trades like $500 million.
I don't, I don't know a single user Decentral even when NFTS
are at their peak and that's a trade at $500 million.
Like I don't know, I think people are waiting for the 2021
altcoin season. It's never coming.
So I think if you're looking for an awkward season which touches
hyper liquid, maybe some D5 if they, if you know, if they if
they managed to capture quite a lot of this move from trapfind
to D5. But who knows, maybe some of the
L ones. But like, I'm not some of the L
ones also look like massively valley to me.
Like I still think some of these alts can continue to bleed lower
for a long time. Like a long long long.
The that the the long Bitcoin and hype short garbage still
very interesting vault, though I think you still have to be
careful what's in your garbage bucket.
Did you have you looked at this Maple finance syrup token I.
I've invested in quite a lot of Maple finance over the years.
Syrup is the stable coin thing, right?
I have some money in that like you.
You can earn like 14% on stables back in the day.
I don't know if you still can. I just thought this was their
overall token. No, if you go to if you go to
Maple dot finance syrup is the name of their of the token that
you get for like a deposit saying they have a 10% stable
coin yield and but part of that is in syrup.
So things like a rewards taken for.
It Is there another way to bet on Maple finance?
Are there other tokens? No, I think syrup is the oh,
actually I think they maybe did have a Maple token back in the
day. This is like they're more like
the the stable coin derivative. You can if you go to Pendle
Pendle dot fi. This is the way that you're able
to like to forward sell interest stable coin yields.
You you can, I'm sure if I go to Maple.
Or is it syrup? While while we're figuring this
out, I think the reason I brought this this one up, I
thought I saw a thesis that stuck out to me from Jonah.
He said his thesis is syrup is going to flip Ave. because in
the era of deregulation, Ave's over collateralized loans are
obsolete. Naples uncollateralized lending
is the future. And I'm just reading off his
thesis and I have not had a chance to to dig in much myself.
But somewhat notable, I mean somewhat timely syrup is the #2
mover on the week. It's trading at 730 million FTV.
What's Abe 20? Oh, it's.
I like the, I like some of the Defy points here.
I think they're interesting. Yeah.
I think they're like, because if you're starting to see trap
fight come back, some of this stuff will stick.
Hyperlink has been the obvious trade there on this sort of
buyback model. There's still going to be some
dogs looks like unit swap isn't going to isn't going to fix
their token for example, but there's going to be some good
trades there I reckon. Maybe they'll decide to go quick
side fictionals in the comments telling us that on April 10th,
this is 2024. I thought 2025, but he said that
Radar reported 42 active users in the central land.
I would have actually taken the under on that probably, and I
actually have an. Opinion.
It's about the same as eight coin for example, give or take I
think 8 point about 600 million. Interesting.
So, so actually decent little pivot to 8 point.
So we got two things are happening.
One the eight point, the 8 point Dow is dissolving.
I think that's done. And then we also got several
updates out of the other side for their persistent metaverse,
some new games coming down the pipe.
Logan, do you have a chance looking at any read on kind of
what's happening here? Not too much on the other side
stuff, but yeah, I was following the ape coin Dow dissolution of
course just came up weaker I guess a few weeks ago.
Garga sort of just throughout the the idea for proposal and it
very quickly moved with a lot of community support to dissolve
this, basically transfer all assets to this entity owned and
operated by Yuka called APECO, you know, and and take away the
basically the governance proposal opportunity that
holders of ape coin previously had, right.
So now it's going to just be kind of the streamlined, I think
the keyword there was like focus or, you know, clarity.
They were, you know, really rallying behind a lot of things
like that, which has been kind of their mantra for the last few
months here. You know, they moved back to
Garga CEO. They've stripped out a lot of
like random IPS that they had acquired to really, really focus
on apes ape chain on the other side.
That's that's clearly what we're seeing.
I don't have, I don't have specifics regarding, you know,
timelines for this, but basically the way it's going to
work is now that it's, you know, they're dissolving, they'll move
the assets over to Aidco and then you know, from from there
on out, everything is just handled by them.
So it's it's pretty straightforward.
I. Think one of the more bullish
catalysts you could hope for. Yeah, it hasn't, hasn't really
done anything for price. It hasn't, but it's also been a
heavy month for me and coins kind of broadly it is
interesting. So like obviously I'm, I'm a
Pingu lover. I hold Pingu I, I hold pudgy
Penguins. The ape coin Pingu spread is an
interesting one. Pingu's at 900 million, APE
Coins at 600 FTV. Yeah, they become.
These are the board of BNT's are higher.
Yeah, I think they become similar tokens.
It's actually a question I have not had answered, but it's a
question I I passed to Yuga was how you would characterize this
ape coin. Now this is no longer it's no
longer a governance token. It's not really a utility token
and neither is Pengu, right. Pengu, I think they've they use
the word culture coin, I believe, right basically brand
coin to to associate with the the Penguin ecosystem.
Erect is the only brand coin I have to jump in and correct you.
I'm not. Sure, but that that's, you know,
what is what is a coin? What's the pitch to people to
hold a coin? It's another question I asked
that's yet to be answered is, you know, if I doubt many people
were holding a coin just to participate in the governance,
right and to act, you know, to have some sort of say over a
coin and ape chain's future. I'm not that naive, but it was
one of the reasons you could hold it right.
You could hold it to participate and to share your vote and feel
like you're active, you know, actively contributing to the
future of ecosystem. Why hold it now?
I haven't seen that answered yet.
That's something I'm curious about.
I'm curious for that answer as well and I struggle a little bit
to to make the the pitch. I guess it's just to bet on yoga
in the other side. Yeah, I, I can't, I can't make
the pitch, but I feel like, I feel like I'm easy to sway
anyway. But I feel like, you know, Garga
and team of course have talked about this, right?
They they know the pitch they want to give.
I assume they know the pitch they want to give.
I just want to hear it because I think I could be, I could come
around to it. I still do actually believe this
is a really strong brand, right? If not the strongest brand in
Web three, one of the strongest brands in Web 3.
If anyone is going to succeed here, if they have a pretty damn
good chance of being one of the ones that do so, I could be
talked into it. I just need I need to know what
it is. Yeah, I'm with you there folks.
We're going to get to our eat spins here in just a minute or
two. The code is Friday.
Last chance to get in again, the code is Friday.
I think another quick, we might not go deep on this, but just
for folks awareness, it does look like Ledger is phasing out
their Nano S product. I think this is very important
to know. A lot of folks use this.
I think this was the entry level Ledger device basically since
2022. A lot of folks on board to this
one. As I understand it, the primary
reason for this is that there's not a whole lot of memory within
the device. So it's hard for them to
continue to maintain this, this device and support several other
block chains. They're basically at capacity
supporting Bitcoin 8 and maybe a few others.
So for them to be able to, to ramp up support over time,
they're effectively asking folks to migrate to newer devices.
They say basically your, your device is not going to stop
working, you're just not going to get any updates.
But I think this is important from an OPSEC perspective to at
least understand this is happening.
And I think I'm curious for both of your thoughts on this.
I, I think about OPSEC when I need to, I'd say at least once a
month. I think once a month I'll, I'll
wake up and sometimes in a, in a cold sweat thinking about this
to a degree. And one of my concerns like you,
you put cold storage out there and you don't want to touch it
for a year, 2 years, three years.
Are you confident that those devices are still going to work?
You put them in APO box and it's collecting dust or not APO box
in a safe deposit box rather and, and you go and collect it
in in two or three years. Are you confident it's all still
going to work? And like here's a sign like are
we confident that the legend AOS is still going to work in two
years? If it's truly cold storage, it's
not being touched. So I think it it so it's this
idea of self custody and cold storage still requires active
maintenance and it's just something I struggle with.
I'm I'm I'm rambling here. That drives me crazy.
I mean, first, I, I think I bought two of these things in
the past year. So that's 300 that's 300 bucks
down the drain, right? Like if you have to upgrade and
I had an experience 88 years ago where for whatever reason, like
my Ledger just would not connect to my computer and I had to like
go. I was, I was living in Hong Kong
at the time. I had to go like buy like a
bunch of new micro USB cords. And then finally I found one
that actually worked. But and then I, I remember I
talked to like one of the founders at a conference and he
like made fun of me for like not knowing how to think about micro
USB. And that like LED just left a
really bad taste in my mouth with Ledger.
Like blaming the user because they can't access the money
which they clearly want like any in crypto.
When we blame users, it's weird because no one wants to it to
work better than the user. Like it's like how you know, how
do you blame someone for doing something that is so much
outside of their interest? You think I want to spend like 4
hours buying new micro USB cords?
And if I didn't live in Hong Kong where it's like electronic
7 electronic seven, who knows what would have happened.
And there's just like the but yeah, it's stuff like this where
like again, there's no, there's no nothing here that says, hey,
if you bought spent 300 bucks on this stuff over the past year,
here's a a code for you. There's none of that.
It's just and and I think you're right, Tyler, like this
technology might not work in 10 years.
And I think it's a problem. It might not be compatible with
where computers are. And I think it if the use case
of these products weren't put something away and make it and
you'll have more money in 10 years.
That's the use case. Like take it now, hide it away
and in 10 years you're going to have it.
And no, there's nothing the government can do about it.
Like that is the use case is that this shit works in 10
years. So when there's just more and
more signs that it might not work in 10 years.
Like that's a. Problem, like I, I feel like the
narratives aren't, aren't, the narratives aren't, aren't where
they need to be. And the narratives aren't fully
honest about, yeah, I mean, yes, I, I, I have my seed phrase, I
should be fine. But like, I mean, they're
sitting here saying like there are going to be fishing risks
now, you know, And it's just, I just like a lot of the value
proposition, a lot more of this stuff gets lost than I think in
like all that many other places where people store money because
of user error and good products have less user error.
We often say like user error is the user's fault, not the
product's fault. I just come from a totally
opposite background where I think like user error means the
product sucks. And yeah, that's, that was
ingrained to me when I was, I was a first fifty employee at
Uber, you know, and, and at Uber, at least when, when we,
when I was there, Travis, the CEO was like, we will never have
instructions in the app because if it's not obvious how to use
our app, then it's our fault. And we need to be, we need and
we need to hire better designers.
Like that's just the mentality I come from.
So I find the jump into crypto where everyone's constantly like
saying, oh, well, these users just suck.
That's their problem. I I that it's one of my biggest
cultural divides with with the community.
I'm with you on most of that. I'm not trying.
I I just still am pro self custody.
I'm I'm not trying to argue come across like I'm against that,
but just I'm very like open minded and and objectively see
the the drawback. What's the connection here?
Just for a second? We're back, good sake.
We're at the end of the show. It is time for coin Friday.
So folks have the last couple minutes here to to get in Sims
if we're ready to to start pulling that up again.
The code Friday or you're going to do 2 winners coin race as we
always do on Fridays. We can get this up and running
quick while we wait for Sims. Hopefully folks enjoyed our our
our new streaming ticker at the bottom of the screen.
Let us know your thoughts Sims working hard to get that up and
updated real time stock or tickers in there every 10 to 15
minutes. Let us know what you think All
right, Sims is here. We are going to spin the wheel,
Zoom in. Good luck, everyone.
There he is. Got some music.
I'm saying it's nice, but green, you know, we like the green.
It matches our car skin. Odette.
I don't recall saying that.
Hey, no. I think that should be a clean
winner. That's that's approved.
All right, Odette, you won. So that is Odetta NFT in kick
chat. Either jump up on the space or
drop us a comment. You can always do it in chats.
We don't have full Twitter integration at the moment, but
we will do soon. So you can just do it in the,
you can do it in the chat and get people's what they want to
go with all. Right, second winner.
Here's #2 who we got Mitzi. All right, Mitzi.
Also approved. All right, two clean winners
here today. So Odette and Menzie Mitzi, go
ahead and drop us a comment in the chat.
Chat is on fire right now. It is making it a little harder.
Odette turn FT on Mitzi players is who we're looking for.
All right. I haven't seen them yet.
I have not seen either of these folks.
So hopefully they are on with us.
There's Mitzi players, Yep. All right, Mitzi clean winner
here. So the way today works others.
Oh dad, all right, chat works for me.
OK, folks, so we are going to play coin race.
You beat your banking $500 and we want to do 200 on fartcoin
mandatory and I get to pick the other.
Is that what we're choosing and we're and we're doing the same
race or separate races? I think what do you want to do
here? I think we could all let's stick
to what we've been normally doing.
So let's do 250 on fart and then first winner who was Odetta can
pick what the two other 250 goes on.
OK, so Odetta, we need you to pick a coin and then for the
second one Mitzi players, he also needs to pick a coin for
the other 250 all. Right Odetta, go ahead and give
us your your pick. You have Bitcoin, Ethereum,
Solana or Doge and those have increasing odds as you go out
the the the risk curve there, assuming you're familiar with
the game. All right, we're waiting on your
pick. I got to pick one.
Just type it, type it away. Bitcoin.
OK all. Right Bitcoin, Fartcoin, barbell
always a a good choice. Mitzi.
Mitzi, do that Salon. All right, So we've got our
bets. So are we doing the same race or
two different ones? I think we do two different ones
and go with it unless you guys want it all in one.
It's your call 0. It makes it harder with you
can't put 500 on fart so we got to do separate.
True. OK.
So Zeta goes 1st 2:50 on Bitcoin 250 on part coin.
Let's go. Let's have it.
All. Right, you're in the next race,
so you can just enjoy watching this one.
No pressure. No, we're fart wins in.
Wow. All right, each one.
That's good. You don't want to.
All right, so we got the each one out of the way.
All right, so here we are. Odetta is your bet on Bitcoin
250 on fart. Yeah.
Farts at 53 X. So Beacon.
Nice little hit if that goes through.
Good luck, Odetta. Let's go.
Favor go fart coin Friday. 13 grand if that hits.
Wow, get it? Not today.
I just felt not about this. Bitcoins live.
Oh, bitcoins live. Oh.
Ghost coin win. Wow.
All right. Oh, Daddy, you still banked 500
bucks. That's still Friday.
All right, Minzi, you're up. Oh, my God.
Minzi's getting 77 X. 77 on that boy if this head's holy shit. 7X
on Talana and 73. Two.
Here we go on 20. All.
Right, all these will be very good.
All of them all. Right.
Good coins out. That's good.
Hold on. Hold.
On. What Dogecoin.
Nobody. Want two in a row?
Wow, double. Doge.
Double doge. Double doge.
Well. Mezzy, you bought you walked
away 500 bucks as well. Well, the team will coordinate
with you after the show. Well folks, that's going to be
it. That is our shows for the week
for Oak will be back on with us next week, so we are excited for
that. As always, want to thank our
listeners for joining us. I want to thank my colors.
I want to thank our partners. We'll be back Monday at 10 AM
Eastern. Until then, I want to make stats
as well. Stats.
Thanks for joining us, this was great.
Thanks for having me guys. Go make it a beautiful day.
Have a great weekend, goodbye.