1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:05,760 TMDM everyone. It is the show without faroque 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,360 and OSF. Today I have brought in two. 3 00:00:10,040 --> 00:00:12,240 I would say exceptional. Jesus Christ, it is loud. 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,960 Faroke literally shouts the hell out of this team at the start. 5 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,160 Yeah, I brought in two incredible guests to fill in for 6 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:20,480 OSF and Faroque. Today. 7 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,520 It's a slightly different show. I brought in Cows, who's been on 8 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,920 this show a few times before. He's one of the Co founders of 9 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:26,400 Canary. Labs. 10 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:27,200 Morning. Morning. 11 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:32,119 And Spencer well known for being well one of the best NFC traders 12 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:36,760 in the market right now and now I don't know also does some Co 13 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:38,720 hosting of of morning radio shows. 14 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:40,360 So I thought you'd be you'd be perfect for it. 15 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,040 Good to have you both. Thanks for having me. 16 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,520 Good to see you. I you know, you said I I I 17 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,760 really fixated on you said one of the best NFT traders right 18 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,320 now because you know you guys are the original best NFT 19 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,200 traders and back in the day there's no way I could compete. 20 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,760 But now that you've moved on to shit coins and all sorts of 21 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,720 other stuff, you know you've retired from that mantle and 22 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,480 you're happy to pass it along. Is that was that? 23 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,040 Was that the energy I was picking up on here? 24 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,680 Maybe. Maybe I think you you you 25 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:09,400 definitely dabble in a few different things. 26 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,960 Let's be honest, the funds, the fund seems to be doing a bit 27 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:14,040 more than just NFTSI think you're going to, you're going to 28 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,200 surpass us at some stage, who knows. 29 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,480 And I think it's a good thing to have it because it's been, we 30 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:21,320 haven't had the show for the last couple of days. 31 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:26,000 We left and everything was doing OK and then it seemingly got a 32 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,760 little bit worse over the last 48 hours. 33 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,320 Definitely not a great market to open up with today. 34 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:36,040 Maybe we can just go through what we think, what we think 35 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:37,280 the, the fun things are happening. 36 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,000 Obviously meme coins, NFTS, airdrops, lots of stuff still 37 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,280 happening over the last 48 hours and you know a little bit of 38 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:46,760 red. I still think we're going to 39 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,200 come out of it the other side, but we're going to go in how we 40 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,840 normally do this show. So we're going to go through the 41 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,640 kind of the top five main things that's been going on going on in 42 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:59,440 the market and then we'll then we'll go from there. 43 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,360 The, I think the first thing to say is just how weak the 44 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,120 market's been. Like this is probably the 45 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:09,360 weakest, weakest a few days that we've seen for months really 46 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:10,720 right. Like I don't think I can really 47 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,520 remember the period where it's slightly. 48 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,440 It felt like we have that fear back. 49 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,320 I was seeing today that Bitcoin has been up for seven 50 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,600 consecutive straight months. And I think this is the first 51 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,160 time where it's felt like oh you know it could we could take a 52 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,040 little bit of a dip. How you two both feeling about 53 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,520 it? I mean, look like, I think that 54 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,800 like obviously price is going down, right. 55 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:33,920 I think we saw some fear this weekend, but it's also kind of 56 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:35,680 healthy. And I think like one thing that 57 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:40,320 is really a tough mind shift for a lot of people on CT is like CT 58 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,160 has no impact on the narrative anymore on Bitcoin. 59 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:47,200 Like it didn't at towards the end of last cycle, right. 60 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,960 We saw institutions come in then, like all the institutions 61 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,120 left during the bear market. And it's suddenly, like CT 62 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,720 hadn't mattered again. But like now, like, like there 63 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,560 is a game being played that you are not Privy to, right? 64 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:00,640 And like, I mean that as in, like you as in the listener. 65 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:04,560 But you as in us as well as, like nobody in crypto is playing 66 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,560 the level of a game that like the real players that have 67 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,640 stepped in are playing, right? And I think one thing that I 68 00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:15,760 wonder is like what degree of what we see going on right now 69 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,000 is like true retail outflows, right? 70 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,920 So obviously we had inflow, inflow, inflow, inflow, big 71 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:24,360 outflow, right? But like is this? 72 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:25,760 There's two ways I think you can view it. 73 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:29,560 First is, is like Bitcoin went down in price. 74 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,840 Did people who needed some of their retirement account into 75 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:38,800 Bitcoin get scared and are pulling it out or did someone 76 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,280 very smartly like put a bunch of Bitcoin? 77 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,880 Like if I if I was a big institution and I with the ETF 78 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,520 coming right and I have managed an institution but not like a a 79 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,240 trillions of dollars asset manager, right. 80 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,480 It feels very tempting to have put a bunch of money into the 81 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:56,200 ETF and then waited till there was this whatever, lots of hyper 82 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,480 on big inflows, shorted it and then just pulled a bunch out 83 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:01,920 like that. Seems like a really obvious 84 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,240 trade. So it's what we'll have to see, 85 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:05,800 right? Is like, I could see a world 86 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,760 where it's just like whenever Bitcoin goes up, there's 87 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:09,960 inflows, whenever Bitcoin goes down, there's outflows. 88 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,200 Like that seems reasonable to me based on like the assumption 89 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,960 that it is retail driven. I could also see a world where 90 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,920 we see like shenanigans that make almost no sense unless you 91 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,399 assume there's one very large actor like doing them right. 92 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,360 I don't think we've conclusively figured out which of those two 93 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,080 it is. And I I'm curious what you guys 94 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,120 might think would be indicators to look at, but it's just not 95 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,360 obvious to me at all what's going on at the level of the 96 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:34,200 ETFs, right. My view has just been like, 97 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,480 obviously the Bitcoin ETF has been that bullish and so like, 98 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,040 I'm mostly like we're at a point in that arc where I just don't 99 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:43,880 know what's going on, right? And I don't think it's easy to 100 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,120 derive what's going on. Whereas like a big, a more 101 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,400 interesting like bet you can make is like will there be an 102 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:51,400 Etherium ETF? Is an interesting bet. 103 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:54,440 Yeah. Look, I think I agree with you. 104 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,360 It feels like we get the, we get the information delayed like the 105 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,520 the, the price moves and then we find out there's been an 106 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,480 outflow. So you can you always kind of 107 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:07,240 play and catch up with the ETF data from a from a day-to-day 108 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,360 basis. It does feel as though the real 109 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,840 thing that's happened is that the the greyscale outflows have 110 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:16,920 picked up again. Interestingly, Genesis looks 111 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:18,720 like they settled with Gemini to pay customers. 112 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,600 A lot of people have said again they had a big CBTC position 113 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,200 here and that's caused a lot of the the outflows in order to pay 114 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,720 that settlement and that may again slow. 115 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,240 I think Eric Balkunis who's like the main Bloomberg analyst was 116 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,640 pointing to that the Black Rock inflows had slowed but then they 117 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:37,840 did pick up again decently again yesterday. 118 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:40,920 So I don't know if it was necessarily anything more than 119 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,520 just this could be temporary. He the the back the Bloomberg 120 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,280 analyst seemed to point to that. But this is definitely something 121 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:50,200 to be aware of like I think it's very, very difficult to to I 122 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:55,040 don't know predict this market but if these outflows continue I 123 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,960 think we could go, you could still go a decent amount lower. 124 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,280 You are seeing like more stable coins being minted like the 125 00:06:00,280 --> 00:06:02,760 stable coin supply is like up only at this stage. 126 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,960 So there's clearly money coming in which isn't just the the ETFs 127 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,840 but this has definitely been the main narrative at least for the 128 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:11,840 last two months. So I'd I'd definitely be be 129 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:13,280 aware of that. I don't think we're going to 130 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:17,720 like crash down, but but I yeah and obviously we have the 131 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,800 halving in just in just a few weeks which I think could lead 132 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,360 to more institutional inflows ahead of that. 133 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,400 But it's yeah, it's it's definitely a difficult one to 134 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,840 predict and I agree with you, it's maybe not even one that you 135 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:30,360 want to predict too much because you're always going to be behind 136 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,800 the time. It's better to play for, for 137 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,840 other things. What do you think, Ben, like how 138 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,760 you see in the market right now? I think I agree with both of 139 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:39,760 you. You're always like the guys who 140 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,880 are actually trading these flows, have the info 1st and 141 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:44,800 either hedge it or take the other side of it. 142 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,000 So you're always playing catch up. 143 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,160 But similarly I don't I think that narrative is like done like 144 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:54,200 the narrative of everybody just waiting for that inflow number 145 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,320 and then it trading up or down. I feel like that's I feel like 146 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,080 we're moving past that. I think interactive will start 147 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,600 to form around the halving around like some form of supply 148 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:10,600 crisis for Bitcoin. And yeah, once, especially once 149 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,840 minus selling has slowed down. I think that you know there 150 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,040 needs to be this new narrative. We can't focus on what was the 151 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,880 narrative of the past like 3 months for the for the rest of 152 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:22,760 the year. So I think people should be like 153 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,360 looking to the next thing rather than like focusing on the thing 154 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,280 that's happening right now, IE like oh today was inflow, today 155 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,840 was outflow, etcetera. I think the it's this happens in 156 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,560 any financial market like the people with the most volume. 157 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,240 The reason the more volume you get, the more information you 158 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,880 get about who's buying and selling and that's kind of the 159 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,280 the benefit and some of the payment of being a market maker 160 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,240 because then you're more informed and you can take better 161 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,640 positions and just know where the market's going in real time. 162 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,600 And then everybody else is acting on a delay of, you know 163 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:57,680 if you're super, super connected, you're acting on a 164 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,400 delay of like 10 minutes. And if you're only log into your 165 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,320 Coinbase world today, it's a delay of like whatever 12 hours. 166 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,560 So and everybody is on at a different point on that 167 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,840 spectrum. But I think what's smarter is, 168 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,560 yeah, to look forward rather than like in that 12 hour delay 169 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:15,080 and think what's what's happening next. 170 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,360 I do think harbouring is strong narrative. 171 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,400 I don't know whether that outperformed or underperformed 172 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:24,880 expectations to be honest. Everybody has got that like four 173 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,800 cycle chart of what happens around the harbouring every time 174 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:29,840 and it feels like a kind of consensus view. 175 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:35,280 But it's hard to argue with like the numbers around if demand is 176 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,559 there, which is helped by these ETFs, and supply does dwindle, 177 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,159 then everybody knows what happens. 178 00:08:41,919 --> 00:08:43,960 Yeah, I agree with you. The halving is kind of a known, 179 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,960 known, and I don't really like those overly simplistic graphs. 180 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,360 It's like, oh, it happened if this is what happened last 181 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:51,320 halving. So it's going to happen this 182 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,240 time when your data set is whatever it is, like four or 183 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:55,880 five times, like it's not really that there. 184 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,320 Wasn't an ETF like there wasn't this thing that creates also 185 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,280 like and this is anything too is is like like you know info 186 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,440 outflow you guys talk about, but like it's all just GBTC 187 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,000 unwinding right? Like, like there there's a 188 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,960 couple of moments where there's other outflows. 189 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,040 And I think those are really interesting because like, at 190 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,040 least for me, right? Like, like, I don't know about 191 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:20,880 you guys, but like, I own some of these ETFs in like, a Roth 192 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,520 IRA that just, like, it's an easier way to buy them, right? 193 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:24,920 And that's not a thing that I look at. 194 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:26,760 And I think like, that's the bold thesis, right? 195 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,040 Is like what is the bold thesis of an ETF is like, yeah people 196 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,120 are literally just not going to look at these accounts, right. 197 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,800 That's why it's such I think a big fear monger thing when there 198 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,680 is outflows cause it's like whoa whoa, then if that's not the 199 00:09:38,680 --> 00:09:40,320 thing that's going on like what's the thing that's going 200 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,720 on? And so like again like I would 201 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,240 look at on that graph that you had up before Mando, like what 202 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,160 are the couple of red that is not GBTC, right? 203 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,160 Like GBTC is just an unwinding of a bankruptcy thing. 204 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,680 Like this is not really related to the performance of it. 205 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,680 And so I I kind of agree with your point. 206 00:09:57,680 --> 00:10:00,760 Like this shouldn't matter, but it like does like, why? 207 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,600 Why is it that we care so much about, like, clearly the 208 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,600 market's reacting these things. And and, you know, it's just 209 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,680 like, it's a weird, weird thing. And then, you know, we look at 210 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:11,120 the, the, the habiting coming up. 211 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:12,400 Obviously, this is a big narrative. 212 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,000 I think the question is what is the narrative after the 213 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:15,720 happening? Right. 214 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:17,560 And I can see two. I can see one really strong one. 215 00:10:17,560 --> 00:10:21,520 It's like if we don't see the big dip after the habiting as we 216 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,680 had in the past, it's like that is a proof point that there's a 217 00:10:24,680 --> 00:10:25,600 big structural change. Yeah. 218 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,480 So we have this. So we have like literally no 219 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,760 outflows from. When these all buying, it's just 220 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,440 different levels of inflows really. 221 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,640 Yeah, yeah. And you see like BTCL like has 222 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:39,600 one red day of 10 million, right? 223 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,400 Like, I'm curious what that is like that's something to look 224 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,480 at, right? Like what are the red days and 225 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,520 the others and there's there's not many, right? 226 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:49,720 And so if you just think of this as like, OK, like the GBTC 227 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,360 outflows like matter now, but like this is a fixed amount of 228 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,080 like what could outflow, right? Like there is not in the same 229 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,080 way a fixed amount of what could inflow if you assume the inflows 230 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,160 are legitimately like retirement accounts, right? 231 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,360 Like retirement accounts. Like, you might think, oh, like 232 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:09,080 GBTC has all this money, right? But like at the end of the day 233 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,440 retirement accounts have unlimited amounts of money 234 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,280 relative to whatever grayscale held at any point in the past. 235 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,520 Like, these are not the amount that you can outflow from 236 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,680 grayscale is orders of magnitude less than the amount that you 237 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:22,320 can inflow from retirement accounts. 238 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:24,720 Yeah, I think that's something to actually pick up on. 239 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,080 People will getting worried about how big this is. 240 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,880 They've already lost I think about 60% of their AUM. 241 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,400 So this is definitely going to be a slightly slowing or 242 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:35,720 diminishing. You would assume this would be 243 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:37,880 diminishing and it had been diminishing for a while. 244 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,360 It just then picked up because of this because of this Genesee 245 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,080 Genesis bankruptcy agreement with with Gemini. 246 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,720 So I think it's it's just something that you're going to 247 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,360 have to accept. I agree with you we we do kind 248 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,440 of need to search for a new narrative and I I, I I wondered 249 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,720 what that is. It felt like Solana being used 250 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,400 as was a narrative and I think will continue to be a medium 251 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,000 term narrative here. The ETF, interestingly the ETF, 252 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,920 we didn't have a show the last couple of days, but the picture 253 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,880 for ETF has has become a little bit more cloudy I would say for 254 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,480 for that we were already a little bit downbeat on that that 255 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:13,640 the possibility of that happening. 256 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:18,160 But there was reports, kind of unsurprising reports that the 257 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,120 SEC is going to try and subpoena a bunch of different companies 258 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:26,000 in the in the ecosystem and trying to label ether basically 259 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,920 as a security. I don't really know what that 260 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,640 means medium term. I think a lot of people you know 261 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,240 Ganz has been smashed around in the courts so far. 262 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,440 So it does seem slightly surprising that he's going to 263 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,240 try and go for it again, but he he may just be playing for time 264 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,960 here just before you know, the next election. 265 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,560 I would be unsurprised if that if that was the case. 266 00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:51,800 But ETH actually hasn't performed that badly since then. 267 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,160 It's it's kind of been the outperformer out of ETH in 268 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,360 Solana, so I don't really know. Like maybe that? 269 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,640 Was poor, poor performance. And the court's probably helping 270 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:03,960 ETH. Everyone's like, oh wow, he's 271 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,160 taking ETH the court. Well, we're going to win that. 272 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,240 So it's probably like an upside risk if anything. 273 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,840 Yeah, I mean you, you just gotta look at it, right? 274 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,400 Like in like, it's gonna be something that plays out. 275 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:17,640 There's gonna be drama around it. 276 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,760 It's never gonna be linear. I think the people got super 277 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:24,240 bearish this weekend suddenly. But like, I don't we and crypto 278 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,440 are like, oh, Solana has all this volume, all this attention, 279 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,120 right? But like, the orders of 280 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,600 magnitude of Solana attention is like, it's retail attention, 281 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,920 right? Solana has this big challenge of 282 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:38,520 having been named in the Ripple lawsuit. 283 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,080 Like, how does it come back from that? 284 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,680 Like, is that a big enough bear? I think that's a bigger barrier 285 00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:43,800 to an ETF. Like, I don't think we see 286 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,720 people talking about it. Also, like, I feel people 287 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,360 forget, like ETFs have been filed, like this is a thing 288 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,360 that's in motion, right? Like, and also like ETFs almost 289 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,560 never get rejected anyway, as we saw with the Bitcoin thing, like 290 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,840 everyone was talking about, like, it just seems so obvious 291 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:57,760 to me. It's like really they're going 292 00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,440 to like, psyop you into thinking this isn't going to happen 293 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,320 again. Like everyone who was like, oh, 294 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,960 will the Bitcoin ETF not happen? Like, like, no, it can happen. 295 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,480 Like they they they never miss. They never get these things 296 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,920 rejected. Like why would why in the world 297 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,280 would the ET1 happen? And like maybe it goes up and 298 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,360 down, But like to me that is the strongest narrative after the 299 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,440 Bitcoin ETF narrative. And like especially with how 300 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:22,040 things have already played out, like I would be shocked to see 301 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,160 people like like the the the thing that's been solved now is 302 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,160 when Bitcoin ETF happened, everyone was like is this going 303 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:28,840 to be a real narrative? Are there really going to be 304 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,840 inflows, all this stuff, right. And like the answer is just 305 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,960 unequivocally yes. Like there are significant 306 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,200 meaningful inflows. There's meaningful buy pressure 307 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,600 on Bitcoin from the ETF. Like, I don't think that that's 308 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,480 a question that you can really debate anymore. 309 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,400 It's like this happened, like it, it exists, right. 310 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,520 And so now when you look at ETF, it's no longer a double edged 311 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,160 sword of like will it be approved and will it matter if 312 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:50,800 it's approved? It matters for sure. 313 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,040 Right now the question is just will it be approved, right. 314 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,640 And so I think we're even in a less uncertain place than we 315 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:59,200 were before on Bitcoin. I don't think it will be 316 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,360 approved at the next, the next approval, but I do think it will 317 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,920 be probably one of these cases where it gets rejected but under 318 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,360 a temporary. So it'll be sort of sort of like 319 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,080 this, like it will be resolved, resolved via some sort of court 320 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,960 case relatively quickly or at least over the next year. 321 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,960 And then we will probably get any PTF at some stage. 322 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,800 And so I don't necessarily think it's a, it'll be a bearish 323 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,600 rejection. I feel it'll be one of these 324 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,920 ones where you'll get a headline like ETTF said to be rejected 325 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,840 and then the reason will be pretty flimsy or easily fought 326 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,520 in a in a court of law and and then and then people will really 327 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,200 just see that as a path to it being accepted. 328 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:39,880 Very similar to like what happened with Bitcoin, right. 329 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,600 Everyone was waiting on the grayscale decision and then the 330 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,480 like a lot of the rally actually happened kind of H2 last year, 331 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,240 right, Just got on the expectation that it was going 332 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,160 to, it was going to happen. So I think we probably could get 333 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,720 a scenario scenario like that. But I agree with you like it's 334 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:03,160 it's if that does happen I think it's got a very good chance of 335 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:04,640 of getting one in the medium term. 336 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,680 The other interesting one that people got bullish about over 337 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:11,800 the last 24 hours was was Doge. Like Coinbase went to list Doge 338 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:18,480 with the CFTC right for Futures Trading and people were like, 339 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,000 well this could be a path to DOGE ETF. 340 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,000 Do you think a DOGE ETF could come before the ETF? 341 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,160 It's not unreasonable, right? Like, like like Doge doesn't 342 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,160 have staking is the thing that works for it, right? 343 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:30,560 Like when you actually see this with meme coins, right? 344 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:31,600 This is the whole slot of meme coins. 345 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,200 Things like meme coins are easier to list on exchanges 346 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,360 because they don't have people behind them. 347 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,000 There is an execution risk. They like all these other 348 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,440 things, right? So like you see, CEX is listing 349 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,800 DOGE, like, like, like meme coins much more aggressively 350 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,680 than anything else. And like, that's not random. 351 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:49,680 Like, there's a reason behind that. 352 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:50,920 It's because they're easier to list. 353 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,600 They have less risk of being security. 354 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,880 Like, maybe the ETF world also starts listing, you know, DOGE, 355 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,880 right? But genuine question here, Mando 356 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:04,280 Do you think if there was a DOGE ETF, is DOGE the ultimate 357 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,000 beneficiary of that? Or would other meme coins? 358 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,040 Now they see a path to being listed like is with the ultimate 359 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,119 beneficiary of a DOGE ETF. Yeah, I I when I saw that 360 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,160 headline, I do think that that meme coins in general would 361 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:19,920 would rally. But I agree with you. 362 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,800 I mean, I think we're quite way away from a DOGE ETF. 363 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,000 But I would agree with you that the path for a lot of these meme 364 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:32,280 coins may be simpler than a lot of L ones, for example, in terms 365 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,320 of being classed as a commodity or a security. 366 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,200 Like, it's very difficult to say that there's like a team behind 367 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,840 Doge who are like working to make it better. 368 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,480 Like it's just, I don't think it would pass many of the security 369 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,160 rules. And obviously it's also like a 370 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,440 fork of Bitcoin, right? So it has a slightly cleaner 371 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,640 cleaner path there in terms of like proof of stake versus proof 372 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,400 of work. So yeah, I I think you could get 373 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,320 a DOGE ETF. I genuinely do. 374 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,480 I I I don't know if it would be the next one. 375 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,400 I think a lot of people spoke about maybe you'll get a Ripple 376 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,400 ETF because they actually like basically won their court case 377 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,080 but who wants a Ripple ETF, let's be honest. 378 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,840 So I do think yeah you this one or ETF would be the most 379 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,000 interesting for me as as like the ones next. 380 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,840 Do we think they're important though the smaller ones like I 381 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:25,720 feel like the ETF is going to be so the ETF is to Bitcoin ETF as 382 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,800 silver ETF is to gold ETF like gold ETF is fucking huge. 383 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,800 Silver ETF is like a total market cap is like a 20th of the 384 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,800 size and nobody really says well some people do but very few 385 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,360 people be like oh I'm in the precious metal trades for the 386 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,640 for inflation hedge and you know I'm equally or I'm like market 387 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,360 cap weighted to gold, silver blah blah blah blah blah 388 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:52,320 platinum etcetera etcetera. Do you think, like I kind of 389 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,040 think that all of these things are just going to be non events 390 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,760 in a way? They I I agree that the I think 391 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,320 even the ETF analysts have been like yeah it's going to be ETH 392 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,240 is going to have a much smaller demand. 393 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:09,400 I mean the ETH futures ETFs have been much smaller as a as like a 394 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:14,080 traded asset class than than the Bitcoin futures ones as well. 395 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,120 So I agree with you it's it's diminishing, but it also just 396 00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:20,400 sets it up for the future more than anything like you're you're 397 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,600 also accounting for like future demand here I think a little 398 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:23,560 bit. So what? 399 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,480 Does that mean? What does that mean exactly? 400 00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:28,320 Right now the people who manage your pension funds are are 401 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,320 probably boomers, but like OK, like within time you could very 402 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:37,440 easily see, you know, these become more of an asset class 403 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,920 even for traditional finance. And with these rails in place, 404 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,600 it allows that to happen a lot easier I think. 405 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,280 And also like you got to think what are the most common and big 406 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,280 products in the financial industry, right, Are like and 407 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,360 they're increasingly like passively managed index funds, 408 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:53,520 right. And so once you have like a 409 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,480 Bitcoin ETH and DOGE, like I, I imagine you then have a Bitcoin 410 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,320 ETH DOGE product that has like weighted shares across those 411 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,240 ETFs. And like, like I think one of 412 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,000 the things, no, but I generally think this is a meaningful thing 413 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,240 is like you see how, how are financial institutions going to 414 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,240 package these products to their customers, right. 415 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,920 And I think a lot of the times you're in a package it as like 416 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,680 you in your diversified portfolio of everything which 417 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,320 we've picked. Right. 418 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,240 Like should have some weighted crypto basket, right. 419 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,160 And they really like to say weighted crypto basket even 420 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,200 though it's probably going to be mostly Bitcoin, right. 421 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,720 And like the the idea that they are doing some sort of like 422 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,520 wizardry and math that has selected for you the perfect 423 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,640 basket of exposure is like the thing they're pitching you on, 424 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,040 which obviously anyone who like knows anything knows is not the 425 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,120 case. Like why is it that like you 426 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:41,440 have SMP weighted the way you do in most of the SMP exposure that 427 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,520 like a bank will give you? It's just like they have chosen 428 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,240 this right? And so and and you're like, oh 429 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,920 like if you can sit down and have the guy be like just buy 430 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,720 Bitcoin, right? Like OK, whatever. 431 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:52,080 You can go figure that on your own. 432 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,680 But the bank's like, Oh no, we have all this knowledge. 433 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,960 We're picking and choosing the best, most performing, blah, 434 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,080 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 435 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,280 And really they're just spot buying at a certain percentage. 436 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,720 And like we all know that's just like, you know, don't look at 437 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,080 the man behind the curtain kind of thing. 438 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,760 But I think like giving them more products to push from like 439 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,480 financial advisors could be a really interesting outcome here. 440 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,080 Yeah, they're all driven by fees. 441 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,040 I agree with that. Like they'll find a way to get 442 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,360 AUM for the ETF if they're going to get fees from it. 443 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:20,080 So it's. Probably what the silver, the 444 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,600 silver got, the guys who owned silver mines said. 445 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,080 They're like, yeah, man, our ETF is going to be big for the 446 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,840 future. You might be like I I I agree 447 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,040 with you to a certain extent, like. 448 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,520 The whole thing will grow, but like, it'll be like Highlander. 449 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,440 There can only be one. Like Bitcoin is the daddy and 450 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:42,600 it's going to take like gross amount of market share and all 451 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,480 of the other ones it will be. I just don't know if they'll be 452 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:51,320 like price, like it won't drive the price in the same way that 453 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:52,800 the ETF narrative has on Bitcoin. 454 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,280 Or or it might not. I think, I think that's fair. 455 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:56,680 I think that's the thing that is fair. 456 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,960 The other thing that we had over the last 24 hours was was kind 457 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,600 of a lot of positive centre around Coinbase. 458 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,480 The first one was this BlackRock fund, which is which has been 459 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,240 launched on on ETH. I think that was a partnership 460 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,960 with Coinbase there. Now Blackrock's now got its own 461 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:14,840 stable coin. Guys like you can invest, it has 462 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,000 yield. I think they're investing in 463 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,440 Treasuries on the other end, which is kind of a weird because 464 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,280 it came out on the same day that Gensler was basically going 465 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,960 after ETH as a security. Blackrock's just launching a 466 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,400 fund on ETH and then we had a bit of a base season which which 467 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:32,760 seemingly lasted for about 24 hours and then and then all kind 468 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,200 of died. Like what do you, what do you 469 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,120 think about Bass as a the memes? I have to say the memes are 470 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,080 they're kind of mid as as a like a meme. 471 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,000 Like I think it's like Brett is the main meme. 472 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,240 They're not even really memes. They're just like names. 473 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,320 It was a great tweet, which is like the memes on on bass 474 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,120 literally look like they've been developed by like an office full 475 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,480 of like 40 year old boomers like on purpose and you're just like, 476 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,600 yeah, that that hits home. That hits the. 477 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,760 I think like with base, right? Like I mean I I'm just 478 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,840 optimistic about like what the role of base is in the 479 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,160 ecosystem. But like it's exactly that. 480 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:10,400 I think it's like on the nose, right. 481 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,600 It's like yes, we are a bunch of like boomers who got together 482 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,520 and like we are doing the boomer thing for you. 483 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,480 And like so much of what is happening that is positive for 484 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,480 crypto is due to Coinbase like being the champion of crypto in 485 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:28,960 the regulatory world that like I I will take mid memes if it's 486 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,840 exceptional to me is that like it is mid for the same reason 487 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,560 that Coinbase is winning the lawsuits so like. 488 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,920 The same lawyers probably thinking up the fucking ring. 489 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,200 Yeah, yeah, dude. I agree with everything you 490 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,800 said, but I think you should never settle for anything less 491 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,600 than absolute excellence when it comes to memes. 492 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,600 But there you go. I have to say, if Brett gets to 493 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,160 like multiple billions or different, like what have we 494 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,400 done here? Like, like memes are very hard 495 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,840 to do on purpose. I feel like if you're like, holy 496 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,200 shit, people are making a ton of money on memes, let's make one 497 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,800 in the 20 in the next 24 hours and make a ton of money. 498 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,640 Like, that's just not a good business model. 499 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,240 Like memes kind of erupt organically and because 500 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,880 something happens out there that the community rallies around. 501 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,040 But it's it's just, it feels like the type of thing that the 502 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,560 harder you try, the worse you are. 503 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,760 And I feel like we're at that stage of the meme coin cycle. 504 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,880 We're like, we're very much like buyer beware, I think, of any of 505 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,960 these things because someone's trying to take your money. 506 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,160 Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, I agree with what I 507 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,560 agree with that sentiment. I do feel as though the memes on 508 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,320 Solana, they just go through new matters. 509 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,560 Like every day there's like 5 different ones a day, whereas 510 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,520 some of the other coins are. It is a bit more like stable, 511 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,280 like oh, you buy the first old coin of the of the original 512 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,120 owner and that's what it is. Like Solana, it's like there's a 513 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:47,440 new thing each week. There's been some rogue ones 514 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,440 over the last 48 hours. But it's it's definitely feels 515 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,920 like we we go we speed run through different messes I. 516 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,920 Feel like even Solana though, like, I mean, I guess Boehm was 517 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,000 a later one that felt like it was a little bit more in the OK, 518 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,400 let's create a meme coin stage. But even the like, I feel like 519 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,120 the stuff that has a potential to show longevity is still like 520 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:08,840 bonk and whiff and like, yeah, maybe bums in there, but the 521 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,200 stuff that kind of happened a bit early on, you know, when it 522 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,120 was still uncertain. Yeah, yeah. 523 00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:20,360 I even saw that the Avalanche is going to be paying $1 million to 524 00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:23,320 LP's for its for its meme coin. Avalanche is going pretty deep 525 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,720 in trying to get meme coins on its on its ecosystem. 526 00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:27,880 I don't know if this is going to work but. 527 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,240 I do want to go back to one thing though, because I have 528 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,320 been more bearish on this on this EDTF and it sounds like 529 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,920 Spencer is still giga bullish and the person who is going to 530 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,800 make the decision appears to be waging war against it. 531 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,880 Like and that to me feels like I I don't know. 532 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,320 I'm like we've just had this massive rally on the back of 533 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,920 like potential ETF influence and the person who is going to be 534 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,240 making the decision is current like in the process of waging 535 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,080 war. Like I feel like that's one side 536 00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:58,200 and it sounds like Spencer's view here is that what BlackRock 537 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,080 has never submitted an application that got rejected. 538 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,560 So this will get accepted and I feel like I'm not sure how those 539 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,640 they don't feel necessarily contradictory, but I don't know. 540 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,920 I I I've like kind of I I I have been surprised. 541 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,840 I was surprised that EVE got back to 3500 in the face of what 542 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:20,320 felt like pretty damn bearish news against the single bull 543 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,640 case that has been really driving that asset for for the 544 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:28,360 past three months. It had, it had to be fair and I 545 00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:30,640 think Spencer I think would even agree like this is a non 546 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,640 consensus view. It is consensus now that it's 547 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,640 not going to happen. I think Poly market has like 548 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,400 2030% chance, chance of it happening, but a lot of it, a 549 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,480 lot of the price it had underperformed for a while right 550 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:45,280 like Sol ETH moved unbelievably just as that that those 551 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,680 predictions started to nose dive right and then once it now I 552 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,600 don't know let me check Poly market now on the ETF but I 553 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,240 imagine it's it's probably even lower than that right now. 554 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,160 I think that's a good bet at that level. 555 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,320 I like that price on Polymarket. Probably, but like this this is 556 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,920 the thing too. Is is like 22? 557 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,960 Percent chance that they're predicting it right now. 558 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,720 By May. By May. 559 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,680 By May 31st. Which is the OK? 560 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:12,280 Bad bet. Bad bet. 561 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,720 But like this is The thing is like, I think that we're talking 562 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,480 about different things here. Like one view of mine is that I 563 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,760 think there will for sure in the next like several units of time 564 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,320 we're talking like one to four year time horizon be an ETF 565 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,120 right now. The contrarian view and I don't 566 00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:31,480 think that that's super contrarian, right. 567 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,040 The contrarian view is more like when not if it's going to 568 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,640 happen. And I think like the contrarian 569 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,200 view of I think it is actually pretty imminent is like not 570 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,480 super unreasonable but also not like 100% view, right. 571 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,320 I just think that, like, it is healthier for that to not be 572 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,960 priced in, like the opportunity for there to be a strong rally 573 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,560 because everyone thought it wasn't going to happen, right? 574 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,400 Like one thing that I know about politics and one thing that I 575 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,960 think is true of like seeing about people who are in politics 576 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,600 who are involved in government is like you kind of have to take 577 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,040 what they say with a grain of salt a lot of time. 578 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,320 Because often times like they're doing it for one reason or 579 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:12,480 another. They want to look like they 580 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,520 deliberated hard about it or they want to look like they're 581 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,120 tough on something before it goes through. 582 00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:19,480 Like, you don't actually know, right? 583 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,280 Like like Genzer was super anti Bitcoin, right, Like for a 584 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,120 period of time and then was the swing vote to like make it 585 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:28,880 happen. So I don't think like it. 586 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,440 I guess Sam what you're an empty stats. 587 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,960 What you're saying is like, like, I I I like, oh, he's super 588 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,400 bearish, like he's gonna fight it hard. 589 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,760 I mean, a, he hasn't won a single fight he's gotten into 590 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,520 recently, so bullish. B Like, maybe he's just saying 591 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,040 stuff I don't know, like. I don't think he's gonna win. 592 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:47,960 I don't think he was ever that bearish on Bitcoin though. 593 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,520 I like, I like, I just don't remember his terminology and and 594 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,680 like the wars he was fighting leveling against like what he's 595 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,800 doing right now against Heath. Like I don't remember what 596 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,280 you're talking about. If you're saying he was really 597 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,600 bearish on Bitcoin, certainly not in like the year running up 598 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,320 to the ETF. And I'm not saying he's going to 599 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:05,880 win. I'm just saying he doesn't seem 600 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,360 like the guy who's going to vote yes. 601 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:09,920 So I agree. What I agree with Spencer here 602 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,320 is it's I think it's a when not if. 603 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,120 I think, I think this is going to happen. 604 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,520 It's more when my view is it doesn't happen in in May and 605 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,000 there is some posturing into probably into the election. 606 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,200 But after that I just I think they'll probably lose another 607 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,400 couple of cases here and it's just going to be like a a 608 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:31,000 complete disaster for him. It is interesting that that 609 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,440 there is some incentive here like Grayscale obviously wanted 610 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,160 to fight. I mean Bitcoin ECF went through 611 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,080 because of Grayscale right. They they actually fought in the 612 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,920 courts and they won won that ruling. 613 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,640 I wonder who will be the one that fights the SEC here like 614 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,880 who takes them to court. Will it be BlackRock or will it 615 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,000 be because Grayscale's you know Grayscale's going through a 616 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,320 world right now like it's it's it's you know losing all its 617 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,040 funds and and Genesis going through bankruptcy and DCGS. 618 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,600 You know Barry's about to go into jail like it's it's a 619 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,760 disaster over there. So who is the one that takes 620 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,680 them to court over this? If it does get rejected, I think 621 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,320 it's. I don't think it matters. 622 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:09,520 I honestly don't think it matters. 623 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,880 All that matters is that BlackRock and Larry Fink are 624 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,280 like the biggest donor to the Democrats, or like one of the 625 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,120 biggest. Whatever he wants to happen will 626 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:17,960 happen. Like, that's how American 627 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,760 politics works, isn't it? Basically, you don't have to 628 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,800 play the play. Do you think it does happen? 629 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,560 Or I'm a big maybe not by May, but like, it doesn't matter 630 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,400 who's takes it to court. It doesn't matter. 631 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,120 Like Gary takes his orders from somebody and that somebody is 632 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,200 funded by Larry Fink. But some people have said that 633 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,720 they think that they will they they can fight it because no one 634 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,600 is there to like basically take them to court. 635 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,160 Who, who someone? Basically I think someone in the 636 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,880 ETH ETH community will probably have to like fund this court 637 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,080 case themselves in some sort of way. 638 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,920 Whereas before with Jenna, with you know DCG, it made a lot of 639 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,080 sense. They had like 20 billion plus 640 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,800 Bitcoin and they wanted to convert it to an ETF. 641 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,600 It made a lot of sense. There was no one with that in 642 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,240 crazed economic incentive to actually take the SEC to court 643 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,360 here. So that is one thing that does 644 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,520 does have to be resolved like who is that person? 645 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,080 Who is going to. And I'm not saying it won't 646 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:09,760 happen. I'm just I'm just interested to 647 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,320 see who it's actually going to be like somebody's going to come 648 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,000 in and and basically be like hey yeah, we're going to, we're 649 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,640 going to take you to court, take you to court. 650 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,440 And I don't, I don't think it's going to be BlackRock. 651 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,920 I don't think it's going to be one of like the main trad fire 652 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,400 ETF providers and I don't think it's going to be grayscale. 653 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,360 So it's going to have to be somebody kind of rogue here 654 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,880 coming in and and decided to take, take, take them to court 655 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,800 on this, which I think I think is going to be interesting. 656 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,400 Is the view that the Ethereum Foundation won't be that person 657 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,200 or entity or? Well, the Ethereum Foundation I 658 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,080 I feel like it shouldn't be them. 659 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,520 I don't know if it should be them like like. 660 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,640 I I don't what is the trial that they're waging? 661 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,920 And is that you have declared us a security or you have not given 662 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,480 us an ETF and we deserve one? What is the trial? 663 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,840 That's the thing, like the ETH is not asking for this ETF, it's 664 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,880 the ETF providers that are asking for the ETF. 665 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,600 So it's it'll have to be basically an ETF provider who is 666 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,560 incentivised enough to want to to to do this. 667 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,680 And then I don't know if the ETH foundation should be the one, 668 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,440 like funding that or not like it. 669 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,040 It just seems, it seems like an like, I don't know, someone's 670 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,120 going to have to resolve that, someone's going to do that. 671 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,520 I agree, right. Like like like the the part of 672 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,240 the argument here is that ETH is not super centralized, right. 673 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,280 And the existence of the Ethereum Foundation is like the 674 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,480 counter argument to that. So if the entity that is funding 675 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,560 it is the thing that you're trying to argue is not the 676 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,040 centralized thing. Like I probably shouldn't, no 677 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,960 couldn't fund it through like shadowier means. 678 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,280 Yeah. But like who's in the face of it 679 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,120 is kind of your point. I know, Amanda, what about you? 680 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,120 What would you would you take the SEC to court for us? 681 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,560 You're going to be our champion. Take all your meme coin money, 682 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,880 take that good wreck guy funds and just plow it into, you know, 683 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,040 the good fight with Gary. Yeah we're taking up dog with 684 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,720 hat profits to take on Gary. I think it should be like I 685 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,760 think it should be DC investor. I think that guy just lives and 686 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,280 breathes the ETF every single day he needs to he needs to come 687 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,960 in and and rally some troops. But yeah maybe ARK maybe ARK 688 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,200 would do it like if they were funded in the by the right 689 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,840 person maybe they'd take him to court like I can imagine them 690 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,320 that them being them more like crypto specific but this is you 691 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,080 know it's not just going to court this is a bit of a war 692 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,400 like VCG basically really pissed off the SEC when it when it did 693 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:21,440 it. So if you're going to it's not 694 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,480 going to be BlackRock or like I don't know Franklin Templeton 695 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,520 that does this. It's going to be someone a 696 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,960 little bit random, I think, who who decides to to take the court 697 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:34,120 next? It can be like when Peter Thiel 698 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,520 financed the Hulk Hogan lawsuit to get back at Gawkin. 699 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,760 News like doesn't have to be the person who's incentivised. 700 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,040 I was thinking the same thing. Yeah, it's exactly the same as 701 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:43,840 that. It. 702 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:47,760 Is anyway. So yeah, it's been weird. 703 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,960 Ethan's been bouncing even after that headline. 704 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:55,400 And I guess Solana, Solana activity is still really high, 705 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,120 less money. It feels like being made, that's 706 00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,760 for certain. A lot of pre sales have just 707 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:04,280 Insta zeroed and I don't know there's there's blood on the 708 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,080 streets in certain in certain places there but there's still 709 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:08,880 still unbelievable volumes going through. 710 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,679 So and the only real other story in in I would say crypto broadly 711 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,719 Phantom which is kind of a bit of an OG L1 big in the Defy 712 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,320 space. Andre Cornier who like mounted 713 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,679 that chain is kind of a Defy God. 714 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,639 He he's come back with Sonic upgrade which is like a 715 00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:31,280 paralyzed DVM. Extra way to chart like I don't 716 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,440 know it's just a new way to scale Etherium. 717 00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:37,440 You've heard it here before and that's going to be the big thing 718 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:38,480 that people are getting bullish on. 719 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,040 That's been the best performing coin other than a meme coin over 720 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,280 the last month. It's it's up quite a lot it's I 721 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:51,080 think it tested new highs or phantom but a a bunch of 722 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,800 different a bunch of different crypto Twitter heads decided to 723 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,400 get get together. It felt like the the real cabal 724 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,760 and decided the Phantom's going to be the coin that everyone 725 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,320 gets behind. So that's been the one that I 726 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,280 think people have been paying attention to, but other than 727 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,200 that it's been a bit of a not been that great for for for 728 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,960 altcoins. I would say in general most most 729 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,040 things are down we can move on to. 730 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,400 The wallet, right? What did you say? 731 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:15,800 The. Phantom the wallet, right? 732 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:23,560 No, no, no, no. FANTOM Phantom Phantom is. 733 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,560 Betray my boomerness. Yeah. 734 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,000 To be fair, like this is kind of it. 735 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:35,680 It had a lot of TBR like back in 2021 and loads of people were 736 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:40,200 were like farming on it and then it kind of kind of just went to 737 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:41,840 zero basically like no one did anything. 738 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,200 And then they've kind of come back with a with a story not 739 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,280 dissimilar to what we've seen with like say or Monab where 740 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,280 it's like a just a new L1 with a way to scale Etherium. 741 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,280 And that one's definitely been the best performing L1 ever 742 00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,320 since kind of Solana slowed down a little bit that's that's taken 743 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,640 up. NFTS has been slightly 744 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,920 different. Obviously we continue to hit all 745 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,720 time highs in every single ordinals pretty much every 746 00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:10,800 single day. You have brief dips for about I 747 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,560 don't know 24 or 48 hours and the new AirDrop hits and 748 00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:17,120 everyone everyone gets another Stimmi. 749 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,120 And I think we've hit all time highs in in puppets and in 750 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,560 monkeys quantum cats, every single one of the top 751 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:24,840 collections is hitting all time high. 752 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,040 I know you've you've pay attention to this a lot stats. 753 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,240 Sam. What what do you what do you 754 00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:33,280 think of this space right now? You said you were going to buy a 755 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,240 dip in all of these collections. Did you actually end up buying 756 00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:36,960 any of these dips or did they just? 757 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,520 Run away. I'm never talking about dying 758 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,360 buying dips. I thought you said you were 759 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,160 going to buy some of the dips in ordinals and then and then like 760 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,360 ago months. Ago buying dips is like is code, 761 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:48,360 man. No one buys dips. 762 00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:50,760 People sell dips. They just say they're going to 763 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,560 buy dips, which is code for I don't have the guts to buy 764 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,720 current prices. Yeah, no. 765 00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:58,880 Buying dips is is an illusion. But no, no, look I think like 766 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,400 the narrative. It's just, I think it's got 767 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,280 enough of a narrative that it can sustain attention for a fair 768 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,600 bit of time right now, you know? And I think that, yeah, I 769 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,360 personally like NTS. I like Jpegs. 770 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,600 I think these are NTS. It's just it's just it's a 771 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,960 better narrative right now because the ETH ecosystem aside 772 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,560 from you know pudgies or azuki when people start talking about 773 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,400 coins it's like those those those NFTS will pump but other 774 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,160 than that like the ETH ecosystems just constantly has 775 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,080 you know weights on its ankles. Soul is a little bit harder to 776 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:30,680 get behind. But I think that the Bitcoin 777 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,920 narrative just makes it it. It has some, it has some state 778 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,240 power, it has some real whales who really like it. 779 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:41,280 And as you said, the fact that more stuff gets dropped to these 780 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:45,200 guys is people build out more kind of defy infrastructure on 781 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,720 coordinals. It just means that they're 782 00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:52,120 actually dividend paying assets. So I personally don't own many. 783 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,000 I'm not that. I just haven't bought a lot of 784 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,840 stuff overall recently, but I I do. 785 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:02,680 I I do remember like when I was at East Denver, like every time 786 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,040 I checked my phone, like no monkeys would went up like 787 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,480 another .1 Bitcoin. So I I did tweet about them a 788 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,920 fair bit back then because it was one of those times where I 789 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,280 was like on the airplane and was like about to buy one. 790 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,280 And then I realized like every NFT I've ever bought on an 791 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,760 airplane goes straight down. Because the fact that I'm buying 792 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,280 it on an airplane means that I have a ton of FOMO, which means 793 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,080 it's like peaking. So I was like, I can't buy it on 794 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,440 an airplane. And of course, because I didn't, 795 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,280 it like, doubled in two days. I saw your tweet the other day, 796 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,920 actually I think it was yesterday which was showing the 797 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:39,560 the rally in the in the large cap NFT, which I I thought was 798 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,560 pretty hilarious like. Massive massive rally. 799 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:47,200 It has been pain out there, like look at that, that rally that we 800 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,720 saw over the last 24 hours that everyone said. 801 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,480 Yeah, I think. I think that. 802 00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:56,560 Was when Pudgy's was at like Elevens and now they're at 14, 803 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,200 so it might be a bigger rally, but. 804 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:00,160 Yeah, yeah. Right. 805 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,760 This is the start of the year. Oh no, that's the start of last 806 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,640 year. That's the start of 23. 807 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:07,880 Yeah. So if you start at 100 there, 808 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,680 you're down about 60% on on that. 809 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,960 I mean it was a a nice pop and there obviously been certain 810 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,440 collections which have which have bucked the the trend here 811 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:22,560 but that is there's a wild wild graph but then you bring up DJNS 812 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,760 and and like I look at ordinals and it is like seven days in 813 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,920 ordinals, 30 years in ordinals runestone up 150%, no monkeys up 814 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:33,320 50%, puppets up 70%. Ordinals had OMB had that 815 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:40,640 massive mint R60 even up like everything is up 50 to 100% here 816 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,920 like it is. They're really, it's just 817 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,680 trading on its own, in its own universe, it feels like. 818 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,160 Yeah this feels kind of like Ethan if he's felt when you had 819 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,240 like a a couple crown winners, like there's kind of like board 820 00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:56,120 apes and Azuki and moon birds and doodles and like there was 821 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,800 like a moment where it all just kind of rose together and there 822 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,920 was a sentiment that this was a long lasting narrative. 823 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,240 And I feel like that's happening right now in Bitcoin. 824 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:08,280 It's like these are the early crown winners and this is a 825 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,040 story that people that has longevity and you know there are 826 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:12,800 a lot of ETH guys that haven't moved over yet. 827 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,160 I personally think it's more ETH guys buying I I kind of divide 828 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,960 the world more into JPEG. Non JPEG people than Bitcoin. 829 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,000 You need people. And I think that you know, I 830 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,720 don't think you have a ton of people who are like I hated 831 00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:25,920 crypto punks, but I love, but I love ordinals because these 832 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,200 jpegs aren't Bitcoin. I think you're more like either 833 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,960 pro pro JPEG or anti JPEG and it's just more are people from 834 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,200 ETH transitioning over there than anything else. 835 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,280 But you know, it feels like you know, these FOMO processes are 836 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,920 gradual, you know, and you bring a few more people over. 837 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,400 So it was a bit of a stimmy over the last 24 hours which was this 838 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,200 Dimension AirDrop. You must have got some of that 839 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,520 Spencer this another AirDrop for Purgy Penguins. 840 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,920 This was that Nim right? Not Dimension's the prior 841 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:56,000 AirDrop. Right. 842 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:57,920 Yeah, yeah. Nim. 843 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,480 Nim the an AI gaming app. Like, what is this? 844 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,640 I didn't even look into this new Everyone made some money and. 845 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,000 Everyone was happy. No, I don't think the coin is 846 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,560 actually out yet, right? I think everyone was just 847 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,520 claiming and got a bunch of Nim candily. 848 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,200 I don't know much about it. I also didn't know much about 849 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:14,720 dim either and I got a lot of that one. 850 00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:18,040 So got a bunch of it. But yeah I don't know it's it's 851 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,080 kind of interesting to see right. 852 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:24,560 Like the a lot of like I'm actually was starting to think 853 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,600 through like I I should put together a chart of like what is 854 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,520 the what is the value of pudgy plus all the air drops. 855 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,320 Right. We actually see like, like dim, 856 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,560 despite me not knowing much about it and probably because I 857 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:35,280 didn't know much about it, has actually been performing like 858 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,320 quite well, especially for people who like staked it and 859 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,200 stuff. And so, you know, you see some 860 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:42,960 pretty legitimate like air drops happening. 861 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:47,720 And I think that led a lot to the rise of the price of pudgies 862 00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:50,520 like yesterday, right? Yeah, yeah, that was, that was 863 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,360 part of the reason I think people knew, knew that was 864 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:56,440 coming obviously. And I was speaking to actually 865 00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:02,480 to Luca in in France about this and we were, we were just 866 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,040 talking about you know like the the future of all projects. 867 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,320 And I was like you're in such a good place. 868 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,480 People just keep giving you free money like you don't need to 869 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,480 like you should just keep doing what you're doing like do 870 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,360 everything to like the you know you're crushing out on the to 871 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,880 your products business and the community building and the memes 872 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,600 and all that sort of stuff. You don't necessarily need to 873 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,400 run because with these top projects it now particularly in 874 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,920 the bull market, you just get loads of free stuff like this is 875 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,400 how many you're gonna get. Layer zero as well with the with 876 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,000 the pudgies, right and there's. I mean, it hasn't been 877 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,800 confirmed, but like, I would be shocked if we didn't, right? 878 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,480 Yeah, I think the three, the three for me that seem obvious 879 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:44,320 are layer 0, bear a chain and ZK sink, right? 880 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:45,680 And like. Yeah, yeah. 881 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,560 That's the other. One, those three alone are 882 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,560 pretty. That's, that's that's that's 883 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,520 nothing like that's that's nothing small, right. 884 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:56,200 Like like dimension alone was like, I mean it was like 8 or 885 00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,560 $10,000 a pudgy. Yeah, it's crazy. 886 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,400 That is crazy. And then you don't have to also 887 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,280 have the burden of like eight coin right now where it's just 888 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,480 like it is a burden for the whole community at the same 889 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,320 time, like everyone made money, but it would be doing great if 890 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,960 we just made money and then you didn't have to like, you know, 891 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,120 build a Dow and then worry about how the funds are being spent 892 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,720 and all this sort of stuff. Like let other people create the 893 00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:23,520 coins and just give them to your community for free. 894 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,680 And that's kind of, I mean that's the dream scenario, 895 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:27,960 right? I was saying and he was like, 896 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,400 yeah, I I think I agree like if you can organise this sort of 897 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,480 stuff, it's it's kind of wild. The other, the other big 898 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,280 community to benefit from this was the was the parallel 899 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,880 community, which is. I mean, this token's been on an 900 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,360 absolute tear. It's one's crazy to me. 901 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,240 A lot of people saying this could go you know it is a $2 902 00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:52,520 billion fully dailed market cap it's it started just a few 903 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,280 months ago was at was at 2 right in September. 904 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,440 I remember Sobi, I mean this this was kind of around last 905 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,800 cycle so oh interesting. I thought it was around earlier 906 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,440 than that but I think it definitely was people are saying 907 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,840 this could this could go to like 100 like this this this thing 908 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,880 that that it's kind of a mixture right now because they have some 909 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,360 it's obviously a tabletop game. I know you're big in that world 910 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,520 Spencer, but the idea is that they also have some AI 911 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,400 components of the game or and they're also going to do like an 912 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,800 AI AirDrop move to Solana. People getting very very, very 913 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,040 bullish on this as the one out of them all that could that 914 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:32,520 could do well. What's your What's your view on 915 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,440 this, Spencer? I think this is very interesting 916 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,240 because it scratches an itch of specific narratives Like they've 917 00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:40,720 done a very good job branding this where you're like, I don't 918 00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:43,160 really know what this is, but like gaming and like I don't 919 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:44,840 know what this is, but like AI, right? 920 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:46,960 And like that's a bullish thesis if I don't know what this is. 921 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,000 But it seems like an index play on AI. 922 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:50,920 Like, I mean call a spade a spade. 923 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,360 A lot of the like trend followers who got it or who are 924 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,000 a lot of the crypto crowd like got AI, you know focused or 925 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,840 whatever. And so crypto plus AI to me 926 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,560 feels like a stronger narrative this cycle than like real estate 927 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,280 plus AI was last cycle. Where or is it real estate plus 928 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,040 crypto where like you had virtual metaverse land doing 929 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,960 super well for no other. Where if you thought about it at 930 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:13,280 all, you're like this makes no sense. 931 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,160 But if you didn't think about it importantly and you're like oh 932 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,440 land lots of value in like real estate. 933 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,120 Oh crypto lots of value in real estate in crypto right. 934 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:23,960 Like crypto real estate makes lots of sense. 935 00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:29,000 I think that's this meta like is like AI plus crypto, Wow like 936 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,640 game plus crypto, Wow game plus AI plus crypto. 937 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,320 Very good, right? However, like how is the game 938 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,320 very good like? Yeah. 939 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:43,440 Does it matter? Spencer Just a left curve dude. 940 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,520 Don't even don't even inch towards like being in the in the 941 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,600 in the middle here. I just feel like the more you 942 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,040 think in this market, like the more you are setting yourself 943 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,800 back when it comes to a lot of the stuff that pumps. 944 00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,320 I I agree with that this is the thing in crypto. 945 00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:01,160 You realise it only really matters in a bear market if 946 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:06,040 there are players and until that point I think we can run this 947 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,280 thing. I own zero of this token. 948 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:12,280 You can buy it on Coinbase. I think it was a Coinbase, like 949 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:17,720 a Coinbase Ventures crypto. And I don't know. 950 00:46:17,720 --> 00:46:22,120 I just feel as though AI plus gaming and they're going to give 951 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,640 you like, I think they give you another coin, right? 952 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:26,960 Like if you stake your prime you're going to get their AI 953 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,040 coin. That just feels like something 954 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,920 that that throw away the fundamentals book this could 955 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,280 this could go pretty high like I saw this yesterday with Reddit, 956 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,720 right? Like Reddit launched and within 957 00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:41,480 about 5 minutes everyone was like, this is an AI stock and it 958 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,600 went up 50%. Like because they're selling 959 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,920 their data, you know, to some of the AI companies, they're like, 960 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,160 oh, this is actually this is actually an AI company Reddit. 961 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,920 One of my favourite stories. I think it was on this show that 962 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:57,720 OSF said that Xai or XAI was bumping because they had AI in 963 00:46:57,720 --> 00:47:00,600 the taker. Zai, zai, zai. 964 00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,200 Got the AI pump for a for for a while there. 965 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:05,680 So yeah. So we're doing great stuff as 966 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:06,960 well. But yeah it is. 967 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,080 I have all the stuff in gaming. Let me just bring up the the 968 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:14,480 gaming space right now. You know it hasn't been an 969 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,760 amazing period for for a lot of these over the last seven days. 970 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,760 Primes higher again. Most, most things. 971 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,800 Most things lower. But Prime seems to be the one 972 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,080 that's that that continues out of these. 973 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,840 I don't know about a lot of these stories now like IMAX is 974 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,480 more like AL Two play beam a lot of I like that for a long time. 975 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,520 It's now run up to 2 billion. They need to like produce some 976 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,120 games. Obviously I'm a big fan of zai. 977 00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:40,680 We're we're like we're an invest in that. 978 00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,160 Dude, how is sandbox still on this list? 979 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:49,520 I want to. Know the the one thing I always 980 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,360 see on sandbox is another big. They have huge unlocks every 981 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,200 single week. Like it is wild. 982 00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,040 The unlocks. Because I think the the like, I 983 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:00,560 just. I don't know who buys that. 984 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,360 Like who who's playing in the sandbox these days. 985 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,520 Wow. Look at that for a chart though. 986 00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:12,640 Still like top 15 of all NFTS because there's so much supply 987 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,720 and they still cost 500 bucks each. 988 00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,280 Darla's the one that always gets me, man. 989 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:24,520 Like that is that is a monster of us of a of a decrease in 990 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,400 these. I don't know obviously they do 991 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,000 you know they they sponsor a lot of stuff in the space and they 992 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:31,200 do a lot of a lot of different things. 993 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,680 But I agree with you that it doesn't some of those older 994 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,640 gaming coins I just don't know how they come back. 995 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,080 They may I mean actually he's done an OK job with it. 996 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:44,680 Ronan's been a good play so far as like the chain play of of of 997 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,600 AXI and they had the pixels game which came back pretty strong. 998 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,120 But a lot of the the other ones from the past cycle that you 999 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:56,200 know you can just tell they they ain't going to come back anytime 1000 00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,440 soon. I think that was that was 1001 00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,800 largely it for for for for for for today's show. 1002 00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,320 It does feel as though I don't know we bounced back slightly 1003 00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:11,960 looks like we've we're we're now at 30 sorry 64 K nearly on 1004 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,040 Bitcoin. Things not looking as terrible. 1005 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,400 I think today hopefully we get a little bit of a better better 1006 00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:23,440 weekend and yeah we've bounced kind of across the board so 1007 00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,040 these are not going imminently to 0. 1008 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,320 Hopefully that we have an ETF inflow today but look guys I 1009 00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,280 super appreciate you you filling in. 1010 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,480 I actually think this is better than a normal show normally like 1011 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:39,080 I'm Joe OS FS not saying a word. Everyone everyone everyone 1012 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,160 everyone contributed I liked I liked today's show I really 1013 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:46,400 really liked it And yeah we will we will see you again on Monday. 1014 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:48,360 Yeah. Thanks a lot guys.