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None 
the 

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hi group dos. 
Hey, how's it going, Jason? 

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Good man. 
It's it's the start of a new 

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month essentially, which means 
we are scheduled to have a 

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conversation. 
Yeah, there's always something 

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that comes up and we need to 
talk. 

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It's a good, it's a good ritual.
I think it's a good way to. 

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Start the month and I enjoy 
these conversations too. 

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So do I, obviously. 
And there we go. 

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So I brought you on here to talk
about propaganda primarily. 

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There's also, it'd be 
interesting if we can get to 

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maybe in the second-half of the 
show, talk about technology. 

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We might have to save that for 
next month because I feel like 

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you and I can have a polite 
disagreement about some things. 

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But I was thinking about this in
the shower this morning. 

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It's like one of the things I 
feel that that my show does 

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that's a little bit different 
than others in our space is I'm,

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I, I, I don't shy away from, 
let's say, having a 

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disagreement, but, but everyone 
I bring on the show, generally 

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speaking, are friendlies in one 
way or another. 

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So it's not really about arguing
it out and position like this. 

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You know, I'm right, you're 
wrong, whatever kind of kind of 

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positioning, it's more like I, 
I'm more interested in building 

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bridges and going, all right, 
You're, you're coming out of 

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this from one perspective. 
I'm coming in from a different 

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perspective. 
Why is that? 

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You know, 'cause I respect you. 
You're a smart guy, you know, 

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we, we agree on 99.9% of things.
So if there is a disagreement or

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if there is sort of like a 
moment, I want to want, almost 

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want to figure that out 'cause 
here's the other thing too, 

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it's, it does happen 
occasionally that I'm wrong. 

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You know, I was wrong about God 
for 32 years. 

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So, you know, just just 'cause 
my batting average has improved 

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quite a bit in the last few 
years, doesn't mean I'm, I'm, 

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I'm perfect, just close to it. 
So, you know, keep. 

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That there we go. 
But we'll see. 

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We'll see if we get to that. 
If not, it's not a big deal. 

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I think. 
I think the propaganda 

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conversation is big enough 
anyways. 

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But it's. 
More than big enough. 

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It's yeah, what the Pete and I, 
Pete Quinones and I were talking

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about this, this topic too, when
last time I was on his, his pod 

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and the, this notion of like 
first and 2nd order 

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disagreements that in some sense
to have a real conversation, you

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have to have a, a shared 
framework in which you can 

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resolve the disagreement. 
Like an understanding of like 

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how we are going to resolve it, 
which sources we're going to 

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appeal to it, the mechanisms 
we're going to use to resolve 

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it. 
Or at least enough of a shared 

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world view that we're in a sense
we're, we're not arguing over 

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fundamentals. 
We're we're filling in. 

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How do we fill in the picture 
property given that we all share

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the same basic fundamental 
principles? 

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And you know, a second order 
disagreement is one in which you

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have no shared foundation and no
mechanism for resolving your 

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disputes. 
And that's the and and this is 

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the argument that the, the 
culture war is in essence, the 

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second order disagreement. 
And in in the past, you know, 

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when it's, you know, my God 
versus your God, the way that 

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that was resolved is through 
violent conflict. 

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And that's often, you know, 
power solves those those 

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questions is 1 is defeated and 
and the other submits. 

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And so, you know, this idea that
you can get on and debate the 

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libs and so forth is, is really 
a fallacy because you have no 

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shared foundation with which to 
resolve a dispute anyways. 

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You're just basically getting 
on, you know, you're going to 

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how does it put? 
You know, you're looking for the

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kill shot to basically, and that
that doesn't really isn't really

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conducive to having a discussion
is when you're looking out for 

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the kill shot. 
And, and I think a lot of people

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don't appreciate that, that you 
literally can't have a debate 

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with somebody that once you 
cross a certain level of 

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disagreement, you can no longer 
even have a debate with them. 

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Did you probably you probably 
haven't seen this one. 

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I just this was random on my 
feed. 

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It was to be seen Jesse Peterson
had on David Pak Man recently 

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and he literally kicked Pac-Man 
off the show. 

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He cut him off halfway and he's 
like, OK, bye, bye. 

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It was glorious cause Pac-Man 
was Jesse was asking pretty. 

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You know, Jesse Peterson is one 
of those one of those online 

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characters who his whole thing 
is he's very direct and he'll 

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ask very pointed questions and 
he'll keep asking the question 

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until he gets the answer until 
he's satisfied with the answer. 

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And David Pac-Man has become 
this this propaganda machine 

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where he just, you know, when, 
whenever any questions asked, 

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he's just goes into rote, you 
know, and you can see the 

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program, you know, because he's 
just, he's got 4x4 index cards 

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of conversations saved up that, 
you know, when asked this 

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unleashed that, you know, and 
turn the conversation around. 

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Whatever things that really 
worked 10 years ago that I'm 

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finding the my bitter white pill
on this is that the, that the 

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libs have gotten so lazy in 
their successes and so hubristic

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that they're using techniques 
that I don't think are working 

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on normies anymore. 
You know, I'm just, I would just

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played the first half of this 
game called Dust Borne. 

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It's new. 
It was actually funded, the 

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Norwegian studio was funded 
primarily to the tune of €150 

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million through a European art 
fund. 

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And then we just found out there
was a American, probably deep 

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states cut out that donate 
another two, I don't know, 200, 

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fifty, $250,000 or whatever it 
was. 

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And playing this thing is, it's 
it's literally lazy propaganda. 

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Like it's at one point you have 
to go around and suck out these 

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like demons, thought demons from
people's heads, right? 

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That's how they're framing it. 
And the thought demons are 

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misinformation. 
And when you do it, you zoom 

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over the, the red thing in the 
people's heads and what you hear

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is this chatter. 
And some of it's like, you know,

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don't trust the experts. 
And I was, I was, I was 

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expecting to say something about
getting, getting vaccinated. 

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They didn't say that, but it was
like all these like, you know, 

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MAGA conspiracy, yadda, yadda 
things, right? 

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And and and you're supposed to 
like cure them by removing the 

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information from their head by 
basically re educating them. 

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You know, so game about. 
Yeah. 

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Wow, that's funny. 
Yeah, it's it's so disturbing 

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but so obvious that it's darkly 
funny. 

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The bitter white pill here too 
is is what's great about it is 

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that no one's buying this game. 
I think it at at its height, it 

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had 75 concurrent players. 
So I did a stream on X with this

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just recently played about the 
first half of it and I got 100 

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and 5200 people watching it any 
given time. 

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Like we have more people 
watching this than be more 

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people are than playing it. 
So there's a good thing. 

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I think 1000 copies have been 
sold or something like that. 

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So it's just A to, to wrap that 
up. 

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It's like it's, it's very 
obvious propaganda. 

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It's very like everyone knows 
about it, Everyone's chattering 

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about how obvious it is and no 
one's buying it anymore, which 

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is, I think, a good thing. 
Well, yeah, yes, yes and no 

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though like OK, so this example 
perhaps, but if. 

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Yeah. 
This was being very specific 

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here. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah, but if, if you look at 
the, the more sophisticated 

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types, you know, people, you 
know, want to say, like, we got 

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to harken back to the 90s or 
whatever, you go back and watch 

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90s television, like, I mean, go
back and really watch like, like

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download, you know, go on 
Netflix and go back and watch 

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some 90s series. 
And everything that we're 

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dealing with now was either a, 
you know, made into comedy or 

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part of dramas. 
Like, and I know this is a 

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little bit more, but you go back
and, and watch say, like Grey's 

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Anatomy. 
Grey's Anatomy is, is, is a pure

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propaganda piece designed for to
propagandize women. 

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My wife got into binge watching 
it and I, I tweeted out a long 

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thread on it like, you know, a 
year ago or so. 

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But the, the show quite 
literally like everything that 

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we're dealing with in terms of, 
you know, transgenderism and all

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that, they were doing episodes 
on that show like almost a 

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decade before it hit the 
mainstream, you know, and they 

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were doing it in very 
sophisticated stories in which 

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it seemed perfectly natural and 
plausible. 

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You know, all the good guys are 
enlightened, you know, 

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scientists who, and, and doctors
who free people from their, you 

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know, backwards religious 
parents and roots and so forth 

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and, and enlighten them. 
And it's it, it. 

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And and you realize then you 
look across the the whole 

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panopticon of of. 
Of. 

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You know, modern media and 
modern entertainment and you 

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realize that, you know, people 
just simply drown in propaganda 

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issue. 
I think they just it, it's 

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almost where they become numb to
the fact that they're being, or 

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if they even ever realized that 
they were being propagandized. 

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They just become numb to the 
whole thing. 

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Yeah, there's something I've 
been saying for a while and a 

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certain age, it was during the 
flu season of 2020 to 2022 was 

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that we make it real. 
We are we are part of that 

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process because you have the 
propaganda, the messaging, the 

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narrative, right? 
And you have the intended 

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outcome, let's say, or the 
control. 

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But in between those two events 
or two, two elements are the is 

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the audience. 
This goes into something I'm 

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kind of fleshing out and to kind
of complete McEwan in some ways.

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McEwan, of course, is the famous
Canadian who came up with the 

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medium as a message and in 
reading him and reading media 

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studies from that time period, 
it's all based on Agustin 

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principles of, of common sense 
and and those elements, that's 

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where they kind of built up. 
It's, it was all, you know, it 

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was back when universities used 
to be far more religious than 

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they are now. 
And I found that really 

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fascinating. 
What was always posited in, in 

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media studies was the audience 
was considered that they 

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sometimes you, you, you had a 
term for it called the phantom. 

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So you kind of had to assume the
audience. 

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So in the meeting there's a 
message. 

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One of the ways you can take 
back a statement is that, you 

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know, a radio show, it's 
specific to radio. 

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So you can do certain things 
with the radio show that is 

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specific to radio. 
So the medium and the message 

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become one in that sense, right.
And this is different from TV, 

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which is different from movies 
at different when you get to 

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something like the Internet, 
however, well, what is this 

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medium? 
This is a complete medium. 

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You know, we're I'm presenting 
video and audio is is it TV? 

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00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:09,640
Is it radio is what what is it? 
It's all all combined into one. 

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Podcasting kind of breaks this, 
you know, especially video 

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casting breaks this kind of 
barrier. 

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00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,320
The other thing that also 
happens, and I can just check my

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00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,840
comments right now is I don't 
have to assume the audience. 

200
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,400
The audience is right here. 
In fact, I can interact with 

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them, right? 
So now the medium is the message

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00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:31,080
is connection and there's your 
Trinity. 

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00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,920
So they're not having to assume 
the audience connection is now, 

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which was always assumed becomes
an important part of that 

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00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,360
Trinity. 
In fact, I would say it almost 

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00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,600
it almost supersedes the other 
two in terms of importance. 

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00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,760
If there's a hierarchy of being 
because it without connection, 

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00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:50,600
the medium, the message doesn't 
matter. 

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00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:52,840
If you're not connecting to 
people, there's no one on the 

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other end of the phone. 
You're just talking to into 

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00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:56,320
space. 
Right. 

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00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,280
So as I'm sorry I'm I'm I'm a 
bit rambling rambling. 

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00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:03,880
We're on it. 
That's good. 

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00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,400
We it it's rambling is fine. 
Yeah, to tie it up a little bit 

215
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:08,800
and see what you can do with 
that. 

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00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,320
We making it real, I think is a 
very important part of that 

217
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,800
propaganda process. 
So as you're saying with the 

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00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:22,120
with with Grey's Anatomy, like 
they can present all these 

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00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,200
things, but if, if unless people
are taking it in and making that

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00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,120
real and making that effective 
in their lives, it doesn't work.

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00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:34,720
So it has to be, it has to cross
that barrier of, of desire, 

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00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,920
let's say, where people want 
this to be real, they want to 

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live in Grey's Anatomy world, if
that makes. 

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Sense no absolutely you you have
to tap into desires that are 

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already there with propaganda. 
Yeah, the I've you know the the 

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I found that the medium is the 
message to be a profound 

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analytical tool, not just in 
media studies, but just in 

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dealing with technique and 
technology in general. 

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And I've I've noted this on a 
number of occasions where and 

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and This is why understanding 
the nature of the media that 

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you're using is is very 
important right. 

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So the in the media, like the 
example that Mcluhan uses is the

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light bulb, which he argues is 
pure content, where that the 

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medium and the content collapse 
together into it, into the 

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single entity. 
So there there is no content 

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beyond the light of the light 
bulb. 

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So it it, the meaning of the 
light bulb is its, is its 

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medium. 
So, you know, you go into a room

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and you turn the light bulb on. 
And so what's the effect of 

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being able to turn light on into
a room whenever you want it and 

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it's just there for you. 
And that's, and so Mcluhan gets 

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the point is that the the medium
itself is more important than 

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the actual content. 
So the point of a television is 

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the television itself and not, 
you know, whether you're 

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watching porn on your TV or 
you're watching wholesome 

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programming, but it's the fact 
that you are a couch potato with

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a three second attention span, 
right? 

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Then that or say, for example, 
the automobile, the fact of the 

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00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,720
mobility of the automobile is 
more important than anyone 

250
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,640
specific trip that you might 
take with the automobile, right?

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So the importance of the podcast
is the podcast medium itself 

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rather than anyone particular 
episode that you are engaging 

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in. 
So we have to ask ourselves, you

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know, in this regard, say with 
social media, again, the 

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Twitter, right, Twitter, the, 
the point of Twitter is not 

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anyone particular tweet, but you
know, what is the meaning of the

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medium itself? 
And that's really the, the 

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00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,360
fundamental question with it. 
And then you get 2 questions of 

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00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,560
and that's this also then helps 
you to analyse a lot of things 

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00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,920
like what is the administrative 
state? 

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00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,359
And we tend to think of, well, 
we have to capture the 

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administrative state and put in 
like conservative policies. 

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00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:10,640
But if you think of the 
administrative state like 

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television, that the, the true 
meaning of the of the 

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00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,599
administrative state is the fact
of the administrative state and 

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not anyone particular policy. 
So, yeah, while it might be 

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better to have sort of policy, 
you know, wholesome policies 

268
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,040
rather than policy porn, really 
in the end, the, the decisive 

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00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,720
thing is not the policies, but 
the fact of the administrative 

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00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,120
state itself. 
And that's, and that's kind of 

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00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:38,520
the end. 
The the the for me anyways, in 

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00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,680
terms of the medium is the 
message the the way that the 

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00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,320
tool has become very, very 
helpful for me in terms of an 

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00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,400
analytic. 
It's also interesting to seeing 

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where the authority shows. 
So, you know, and from our 

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00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,040
grandparents age was radio. 
Radio was the first, you know, 

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00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,800
getting a radio inside the house
was a big deal, you know, 'cause

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00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,480
there are big units and people 
would, you know, there you have 

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00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,720
all those old pictures of people
crowded around the radio and 

280
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,080
that's where the news broadcast 
came in. 

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00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,400
That's how people learned about 
World War One and World War 2. 

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00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,800
You know, that's how you you got
that information that was an 

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00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,120
authority presented in the radio
and then that transferred to 

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00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:16,200
movies for a bit. 
You know, in the early days of 

285
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:21,000
movies that then became like TV 
and TV for the boomers became 

286
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,560
the authority. 
You know, the news came from 

287
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,160
from the TV. 
You could trust the TV. 

288
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:31,840
The TV was trustworthy in ways 
that, you know, made, let's say,

289
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,000
newspapers or other places where
maybe had lost that authority or

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00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,720
had it transferred over. 
And now it's the authority is in

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00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,400
podcasts. 
Tucker Carlson has the largest 

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00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,400
podcast on Earth right now. 
It's Eclipse Joe Rogan and those

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00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:52,520
numbers he's pulling Eclipse 
every single major news network 

294
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:57,200
by a factor of some, in some 
cases a factor of 10, you know, 

295
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,080
and he's one guy. 
My producer. 

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00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:03,640
Making some noise in the corner 
here. 

297
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,720
In terms of propaganda though, 
and this is the interesting 

298
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:12,520
thing is that all of these and 
this is gets us, this gets us 

299
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,520
back to this discussion of of 
the Louisville and the nature of

300
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:16,960
propagandas. 
Maybe it's a good way to 

301
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:23,800
dovetail into this is that 
propaganda begins with mass 

302
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,920
society. 
So the the one common thread 

303
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,680
through all of these media is 
that they're all mass media. 

304
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:39,600
And propaganda doesn't work in a
society that has well integrated

305
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,920
communities where your 
relationships are person to 

306
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,920
person and you have real human 
relationships. 

307
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,560
Those real human relationships 
need to be broken down first 

308
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,080
before propaganda can be 
affected. 

309
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,400
So any place that you have 
really strong communities where 

310
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,440
they're strong person to person 
relationships, such as churches,

311
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,440
propaganda is much less 
effective on them. 

312
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:08,600
And then also the other thing is
you need to have persons whose 

313
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,600
community has been broken down, 
but they need to live in close 

314
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,760
proximity to them. 
So they have to be in sort of a 

315
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,760
a a density. 
That makes propaganda effective.

316
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,640
So you have to have cities. 
So people who live out by 

317
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,880
themselves, like in the country 
tend to be much less, much 

318
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,560
harder to propagandize, as are 
people in tight knit person to 

319
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,920
person communities. 
So what happens with with 

320
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,960
propaganda and and the radio? 
Well, it begins actually before 

321
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,120
the radio with the newspaper, 
with the printed, with the 

322
00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:40,480
printing press in the in the 
1700, you know, sixteen 1700s 

323
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,080
when they develop, you know, the
new, the newspaper really kicks 

324
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:50,440
off propaganda and but the radio
is is really exemplary. 

325
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:55,040
So you have a person who is, you
know, either with a group or or,

326
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,640
but they're often listening by 
themselves to the radio. 

327
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,240
So they have this vertical 
relationship with the person who

328
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:08,120
is with the broadcaster and the 
person speaking on the radio, 

329
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:13,240
but they have this sense of 
feeling that they're part of the

330
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,640
audience so that they're part of
a something that's larger than 

331
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,480
themselves. 
So they recognize that they're 

332
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,040
part of a group that are 
listening, but because they're 

333
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,960
listening by themselves, they 
have no interaction with the 

334
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,200
group. 
They're alone and isolated, but 

335
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,440
they feel part of a mass. 
And that's kind of the 

336
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,640
precondition that's necessary 
for propaganda. 

337
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,280
So you have to have this, this 
society that's broken down into 

338
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,200
mass man. 
And then what the propaganda 

339
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,360
doesn't and the medium does is 
it takes these people that are 

340
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:46,640
all broken down and it 
reconnects them, but it doesn't 

341
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,720
reconnect them person to person.
It reconnects them via the 

342
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,480
propagandist vertically. 
So your connection with your 

343
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,960
with other people is always 
mediated to you through the 

344
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:02,600
propagandist, through the the 
voice speaking to you in the 

345
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,960
radio. 
So you feel like you're part of 

346
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,080
a community, you feel like 
you're part of a group. 

347
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,480
But that group, you know, I'm a 
Tucker Carlson listener, I'm a 2

348
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,840
bit podcast listener. 
So we feel like we're part of 

349
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,200
the group, but the person who is
speaking to you is not 

350
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,840
necessarily person to person, 
but it's Jason that's speaking 

351
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,440
to you, right? 
And so Jason is the voice that 

352
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,600
we all listen to. 
And then we're all in that, in 

353
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,000
that sense, we participate in 
this nature, in this 

354
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,760
propagandation. 
Now, like you say, you've got 

355
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:34,200
the comments on the side, but 
the comments in a sense are not 

356
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,840
really fully human. 
It's not like, you know, maybe 

357
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,800
if we were sitting in a room 
together, you know, we could 

358
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,440
give each other hugs, look each 
other in the eye and roll our 

359
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,240
eyes at the radio, these types 
of things that would give you 

360
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,880
perhaps more like real, you 
know, kind of. 

361
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,440
But even in those situations 
where families sitting together 

362
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,200
in a living room, they're all 
staring at the screen or 

363
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,200
listening to the radio, they're 
still not interacting with each 

364
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,720
other in a way that they would 
normally without the radio. 

365
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,280
They still are having the even 
that person to person experience

366
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,520
is still mediated by the voice 
on the radio that's speaking to 

367
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,000
them. 
And so that that condition of 

368
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,480
mass man is what creates the 
condition for propaganda. 

369
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:15,440
And one of the things that Allul
argues is that in industrial 

370
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,920
society, because industrial 
society breaks down those 

371
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:25,960
fundamental relationships person
to person, that if you didn't 

372
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:31,080
have propaganda, an industrial 
society would quickly dissolve 

373
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:35,280
into like all the effects of 
that alienation loneliness would

374
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,920
bring. 
So you need propaganda to 

375
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,320
reconnect people, but they're 
not reconnected in a way that's 

376
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,720
fully human. 
They're reconnected in a way 

377
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:53,560
that keeps them aligned to 
maintaining the industrialized, 

378
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,440
liberalized, you know, 
democratic world going right. 

379
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,680
So this is this is the and and 
this is what Elul argues is that

380
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,800
propaganda is a necessary 
ingredient of our industrial and

381
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,400
post industrial society. 
Also in the sense that liberal 

382
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,880
democracy requires it as well, 
too. 

383
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:21,080
So are the whole nature of 
modern society would dissolve 

384
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,600
very, very quickly if it wasn't 
for the fact that we had 

385
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:29,080
propaganda holding us together. 
So it is propaganda that makes 

386
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,720
modern society work and it's a 
necessary feature of modern 

387
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,200
society. 
And so you you have to be 

388
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,640
propaganda. 
It's like, like everything about

389
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,200
our life today is just very, 
very unnatural. 

390
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,880
Like prior to industrialization,
you know, people worked hard, 

391
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,920
but they didn't get up and go to
work at 8:00 AM and come home at

392
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,760
5:00 PM, right? 
They didn't work on a clock. 

393
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,200
They didn't have like the 40 
hour work week was not a thing. 

394
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:58,880
So all of these things that we 
get up and do are all maintained

395
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,920
and supported by propaganda. 
This idea that you have to work 

396
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,440
in order to have a fulfilling 
life is, is part of propaganda. 

397
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,120
So there's all of these 
ingredients, you know, you have 

398
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:10,840
to get out and vote. 
You have to do all of these 

399
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,840
things that that you need to do 
are all maintained by propaganda

400
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,480
and your social cohesion, your 
society is brought together and 

401
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,640
maintained by society or, or by 
propaganda. 

402
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,920
And so that's the sense that, 
you know, perhaps the first 

403
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,800
thing that we need to understand
about propaganda is it's not 

404
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,560
merely just, I mean, there is a 
sense where you have the evil 

405
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,960
propagandist who's then trying 
to manipulate you. 

406
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,760
But we have to understand that 
without propaganda, our society 

407
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,480
could not exist or function the 
way that it does. 

408
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,480
And so it's a necessary 
component of modern industrial 

409
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,560
society. 
OK, before we go any further, 

410
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,640
let's do a little bit mid show 
grift. 

411
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:55,760
Here's a here's an ad for the 
expat money summit.com. 

412
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413
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I'm putting put some pressure on

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Links are down over there if you
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Anyone who's been following the 
show a little bit, I haven't 

446
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been let this public about it, 
but I'm starting to become a bit

447
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more public about it. 
I have some foot problems. 

448
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,880
I have nerve problems in both my
feet, unfortunately, so we're 

449
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,040
trying to work that out, but 
it's kind of knocked me out from

450
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:34,040
gainful employment. 
So so this is not how I wanted 

451
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,040
to go pro folks, but here here 
we are. 

452
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,240
So if you want to send me some 
money and help pay some bills 

453
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,760
and people literally keep the 
lights on. 

454
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,640
I appreciate each and every one 
of you Crypto as well. 

455
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:46,680
We're here in the mid show 
grift. 

456
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,920
Let the people know where they 
can get some of your content. 

457
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,680
Well, just before I do that, I 
just want to 2nd the the the 

458
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,120
endorsement for for Steve's 
coffee. 

459
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,040
Steve Fox is is is a really good
guy and and he and I've gotten 

460
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,680
to know each other as well too. 
And yeah, again, because I'm 

461
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,320
cross-border to him that the 
problem is getting the coffee 

462
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,880
shipped here is, is, but I'm, 
I'm looking for, he and I are 

463
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,520
supposed to meet at some point 
and, and perhaps do a hand to 

464
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,320
hand exchange for coffee so that
I'm looking forward to the how 

465
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:20,920
that would be fun. 
And maybe get one of those nice 

466
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,400
Fox and Sons cups that he's had 
the mugs that he's got as well 

467
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,560
too. 
But anyways, yeah, you, I mean, 

468
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:32,720
you can find me at, at under 
score Kryptos on, on Twitter and

469
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,880
then also again to at 
seekingthehiddenthing.com. 

470
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,600
That's where I do most of my 
serious writing. 

471
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,160
Some of it is free, some of it 
is behind the paywall. 

472
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,240
And that, you know, because all 
of these things, I have a, you 

473
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,440
know, a business that I do and, 
you know, doing podcasting takes

474
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,480
away from that and takes away 
from family. 

475
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,120
My wife likes it that, you know,
there is a little bit of a 

476
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:57,920
little trickle of income that 
comes through that. 

477
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,600
So again, I also appreciate your
support as well too. 

478
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,200
And an upcoming, I'm at noon 
today. 

479
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:09,880
I'm supposed to be recording my 
own podcast with that, an 

480
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:15,400
episode with John Slaughter on 
the the warrior versus soldier 

481
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,440
dichotomy today, which is, you 
know, one of these things that 

482
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,120
has, you know, one of these 
little kerfuffles that has 

483
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,200
broken out on our among our 
circles that way too. 

484
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,880
So we're supposed to be talking 
about that today and you know, 

485
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,640
what is a warrior and so forth. 
So that that should be coming 

486
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:30,560
soon. 
So if you want to go 

487
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,600
oversubscribe, you won't miss 
that as well too. 

488
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:37,440
Seeking the hidden thing.com? 
Crup Joe's channels are well are

489
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,280
very well worth the endorsement 
and the subscription and the 

490
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,160
read. 
We have all of 16 episodes now 

491
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,920
on the podcast, so there we go. 
Start somewhere, man. 

492
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,160
You gotta start somewhere. 
So you know, I believe in you, 

493
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,920
kid. 
You keep plugging away, I think.

494
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,920
I think one day you'll make it 
to the big leagues, man. 

495
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:01,160
I, yeah, I now I do record the 
vast majority of my written 

496
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,480
articles. 
So if you'd like to listen, 

497
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,440
there's like like 70 some 
articles over there that you can

498
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,720
burn through and the many of 
them are like 45 minutes apiece.

499
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,640
So yeah. 
Let's see what you'll do with 

500
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,320
this. 
Sure. 

501
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,080
So I got a term drop in my lap 
this past weekend talking to 

502
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,560
someone who I think maybe I 
don't know if it's mutual or 

503
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,440
not, but more more on that in 
the future. 

504
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,280
It's not a new term, but it's a 
new term was a new term for me. 

505
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,200
But it in terms of our 
conversation I was having, it 

506
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,840
really was poignant. 
Data is a new oil. 

507
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,320
Now this goes back, I think to 
2008. 

508
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:47,320
I can call up exactly who first 
coined the term data is a new 

509
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,760
oil was in 2006, British 
mathematician client Clive Humby

510
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,440
is said to have coined the 
phrase data is a new oil. 

511
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,040
But over the interceding 17 
years, what he actually meant by

512
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,840
it that has been rather lost. 
Like oil, data is valuable, he 

513
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,720
said, but if unrefined, it 
cannot really be used. 

514
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:10,280
Now this kind of triggered off 
of a series of thoughts for me 

515
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:17,000
because one of the things that 
in in in investigation of the 

516
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:23,640
PayPal mafia and sort of the 
technocratic changes that are 

517
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,360
happening in our society and 
certainly people who are who are

518
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,480
on the forefront of that. 
And I believe they're are 

519
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,720
forming a new counter elite and 
of course, matrix and his from 

520
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,400
over king pills has detailed 
this extensively. 

521
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,120
If anyone is watching this and 
isn't watching Matt, I don't 

522
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,160
know what's wrong with you. 
Go go, go follow Matt 

523
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:47,920
immediately after the show. 
What really hit me with this is 

524
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:53,640
that I think people are people 
can take that statement and go, 

525
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,480
oh, it's like valuable, like 
oil, like it's that's valuable, 

526
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:01,920
but it's it's beyond that. 
I think where data is the is 

527
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,600
what's going to be running the 
system or what has been running 

528
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:10,720
the system for a bit and now is 
going to be much more formalized

529
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:16,080
as the the the the resource that
runs the show. 

530
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:22,600
And I say that because when you 
get into things like World Coin,

531
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,240
which I passed your way, 
Kryptos, which it gets really 

532
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:33,360
creepy when you get into what a 
lot of these guys are doing and 

533
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,160
what I even think elections have
become. 

534
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:44,080
They're these data harvesting 
events that are both putting out

535
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,960
information, messaging 
propaganda, and then watching 

536
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,920
how people react. 
And during an election is 

537
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,360
perfect because you basically 
have an AB testing with this 

538
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,400
messaging going up as a constant
pipeline and you can do it 

539
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,440
completely legally above board. 
The big tell on this was 

540
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,120
Bloomberg in 2020 ran that 
campaign, put up almost a 

541
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,440
billion dollars into his 
campaign that fizzled out in I 

542
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,920
think 6 months or some of that. 
And what we've, what Matt and I 

543
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:17,080
found out was that Bloomberg had
also set up all these secondary 

544
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:22,080
companies that were, you know, 
here today gone to more kind of 

545
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,800
kind of shell companies that 
seemed to only be in business to

546
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,679
collect data there. 
There were basically made 

547
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:32,320
metadata sites. 
So I'm putting all this forward 

548
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:33,600
and letting see what you do with
it. 

549
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,400
Because in terms of the 
conversation with propaganda, I 

550
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,880
think we're we're shifting into 
a new phase. 

551
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,600
Or may I, I'll say, I'll say 
new, but new, relatively new. 

552
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:51,159
Where the medium is the message 
is the data harvesting to a 

553
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:53,960
weird degree. 
And it seems to me like the the 

554
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:59,120
real, the real conflict between 
the elites, at least on a 

555
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,680
technological level, is you have
the group like Elon and maybe 

556
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,240
his cadre who want the raw 
crude. 

557
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,680
And then you have the and I'll 
just use Davos as a stand in for

558
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:16,040
whatever right, the vase who 
seem to be OK or want almost 

559
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:21,560
that synthetic, artificially 
created, manufactured, 

560
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:26,320
manipulated kind of data. 
And those two sides seem to be a

561
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,600
conflict. 
And this seems to be the the 

562
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:34,360
real conflict of the age. 
And that to me is really 

563
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:40,440
interesting, especially now that
Elon has X, which is, you know, 

564
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,840
I mean, it's it's kilometer 0 
for propaganda, for messaging, 

565
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,320
for narrative, whatever you want
to call it. 

566
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,720
Narratives are born and brought 
into the real world on X. 

567
00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:55,160
It's it's it's a magic box. 
So anyways, that's a lot. 

568
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,280
But what do you, what do you 
think about that in general? 

569
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,480
Where do you, where can you pick
that apart anywhere? 

570
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:02,680
Where would you like to start 
with that? 

571
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:08,520
OK. 
So I, I would have a the idea of

572
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,360
data as a new oil. 
So I think there there has been 

573
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:22,760
this love affair that we've had 
with the information age and I I

574
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:28,800
had my thoughts changed on this 
by a very pedantic and boring 

575
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:33,120
book, but very deep and 
profound. 

576
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,400
It's what did I let me get so I 
can get the I'm just going to 

577
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:47,800
look it up. 
The title is In Praise of Hard 

578
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,240
Industries. 
So in praise of hard industries,

579
00:36:53,720 --> 00:36:58,480
why manufacturing, not the 
information economy, is the Key 

580
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,960
to future prosperity. 
And it's by Amon Fingleton. 

581
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,720
Just a wonderfully vibrant name 
there. 

582
00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:09,000
Amon Fingleton's In Praise of 
Hard Industries. 

583
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,160
Why manufacturing, not the 
information economy, is the key 

584
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:12,880
to future prosperity. 
So no. 

585
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,840
Early life check required on 
that name. 

586
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:20,840
Yeah, that's right. 
So here's here's the thing. 

587
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,680
So what he's like, he's. 
Like noticing him. 

588
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,480
He's like noticing himself with 
that name. 

589
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:25,040
Sorry. 
Go ahead. 

590
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:30,480
Oh, yeah, no, I it's so So what 
Fingleton does and he breaks us.

591
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:38,000
Now this is very early in the 
information age, but they're, if

592
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,400
you remember with the whole 
push, you and I are old enough 

593
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,760
to remember the push, you know, 
with opening up China and the 

594
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:54,520
the promise behind the scenes of
of offshoring was this idea that

595
00:37:54,720 --> 00:38:00,920
we in North America could be the
innovators and the ideas guys, 

596
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,200
right? 
And then we could take this, the

597
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,280
troublesome business of 
manufacturing products, just 

598
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,600
ship that overseas and have 
cheap foreign labor, just make 

599
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,560
the stuff. 
And what Fingleton does is he 

600
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:23,920
breaks down the, the notion that
the idea is this sort of, you 

601
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,720
know, the, the whole notion that
you would, the, the people 

602
00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:30,760
struggle with when they're, you 
know, say if you have like a, 

603
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,520
your operating system or a 
program on your computer, right?

604
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:38,120
So you remember you used to buy 
ACD and then you'd have this 

605
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,680
disk and you plug it into your 
computer and then you would 

606
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,120
install the program. 
And your brain thinks it's 

607
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:50,840
because I have this disk, I own 
a copy of this disk, and I can 

608
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,880
do with it as please, I can 
install it on as many machines 

609
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,080
as I want. 
And then the manufacturers 

610
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:56,800
figured out this is what people 
were doing. 

611
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,960
And so you had to have keys. 
And what people didn't 

612
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,680
understand is that even though 
they had a disk, the disk was 

613
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:08,520
merely a vehicle or conveying a 
product that they didn't own. 

614
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,720
Buying that disk didn't mean 
that you own the software. 

615
00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:16,880
It just means that you had 
permission to use it on your 

616
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:17,800
computer. 
Computer. 

617
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,560
It was like buying a license. 
And so then they just dispensed 

618
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,000
with the disk and now you have 
to buy the licenses. 

619
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:28,000
And so this is this idea that 
you would license ideas and the 

620
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,880
ideas and then somebody else 
would make the product. 

621
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,000
And what Fingleton does, he 
breaks it down and says that in 

622
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:39,680
any manufacturing operation 
there are a limit to, even with 

623
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,920
sophisticated intelligence, is 
there's a limit to how much the 

624
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,320
machine can do in terms of of 
making things. 

625
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,360
That that within any complex 
manufacturing process, there is 

626
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,200
a certain degree of intuitive 
knowledge that is carried within

627
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,360
human beings that enables 
manufacturing to work. 

628
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:03,280
And once you ship that knowledge
away, it just disappears and 

629
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,280
then? 
And it, it then transfers to the

630
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,360
new place. 
And he says the the easiest part

631
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:14,520
of the whole process actually 
with manufacturing whatever to 

632
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:20,560
to hack and to steal and to 
reproduce is actually the ideas.

633
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,160
So this you see now with the 
Chinese, the Chinese have been 

634
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,320
stealing the ideas, the 
information behind the ideas and

635
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:29,880
using it to make the machines 
themselves. 

636
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,600
They don't have to innovate. 
They basically steal all of our 

637
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,840
ideas because those are the 
things that are easiest to hack.

638
00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:39,360
And in many ways, what Fingleton
actually argues is that the 

639
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,720
Wizards of Smart saw the ideas 
as being the most important part

640
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:45,640
of the process and Finkelton 
actually argues that they are 

641
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,400
the least important part of the 
process. 

642
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,680
It's actually the hard 
manufacturing, the guys who know

643
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,640
how to make stuff and the 
factories with embedded 

644
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,000
knowledge that are the most 
decisive part of the 

645
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,240
manufacturing process. 
So now if and So what he argues 

646
00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:04,920
is that by shipping it overseas,
you are fundamentally and 

647
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:09,920
perhaps irreparably damaging 
your not only just your economy,

648
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,480
but also your nation as a whole.
Because once that knowledge 

649
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,080
slips away, people lose their 
sense of purpose. 

650
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,400
And so and you see this with 
like the fentanyl crisis and so 

651
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,880
forth, people lose their sense 
of meaning because really in in 

652
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,800
any society, only about 10% of 
people can even hope to be in 

653
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,000
that innovative ideas guys crowd
anyways. 

654
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,920
The rest of the people need to 
have jobs where they work at 

655
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,080
machines and factories in an 
industrialized economy. 

656
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,720
Anyways, So now get to get back 
to the question of, you know, 

657
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:44,800
the the data as the new oil in 
in many ways, our society still 

658
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,040
runs on having to make things. 
And this was very apparent 

659
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,640
during COVID. 
You know, antibiotics, even some

660
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,960
of the simple things like why 
couldn't you get a diet pop in 

661
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:56,880
North America? 
Well, because aspartame is made 

662
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,720
in China. 
And then with the shutdowns, you

663
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:02,640
know, you couldn't, nobody knew 
how to make aspartame or they 

664
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,840
couldn't make aspartame over 
here in North America. 

665
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:10,520
And so we have this, this global
supply chain that is really 

666
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,000
dependent upon, it's not 
dependent upon data. 

667
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:17,000
It's dependent upon, you know, 
the the US having aircraft 

668
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,040
carriers in the Middle East and 
all of the things that maintains

669
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:26,920
it. 
So what data represents is, is 

670
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:31,520
control. 
And so data in in the 

671
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:36,360
surveillance state is the 
panopticon is it is it like in 

672
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,520
the Chinese state with it with 
you think about the social 

673
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,880
credit systems. 
So the more data, and this is 

674
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,920
part of, of the, the, the whole 
goal of technique and, and the 

675
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:53,800
technological society is being 
able to engineer society towards

676
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,920
perfection. 
And so the promise of AI is that

677
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:02,360
you can take the fundamental 
liberal promise of engineering 

678
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:07,320
society towards its perfection. 
But doing so now having the, 

679
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:12,680
the, the data access to control 
people finitely enough that you 

680
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:17,320
can then manipulate them in the 
ways that you finally need to 

681
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,680
manipulate them in order to 
perfect society. 

682
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:26,760
So in a sense, oil still remains
oil manufacturing still remains 

683
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,560
manufacturing. 
You have to make things. 

684
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,080
Our economy is dependent upon 
cheap energy. 

685
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,960
It's dependent upon 
manufacturing. 

686
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:38,640
It's dependent upon these now 
global supply chains. 

687
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:45,040
But what data gives you and, 
and, and the, the processing 

688
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,600
power that that's possible with 
these, you know, large 

689
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,720
algorithm, I hate to call it 
artificial intelligence, but 

690
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:55,120
these, these, these large 
algorithmic data, you know, 

691
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,000
processing and so forth, 'cause 
they're not even really 

692
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,800
learning, they're just. 
Got a language language? 

693
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,320
Language models? 
Large language models, yeah. 

694
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:09,480
Yeah, the, the LLMS that the, 
the, the real thing that they 

695
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,000
give you. 
And in this sense they are the 

696
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,480
propagandist's dream. 
Because you can like let, let's 

697
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,560
say you marry this data to, you 
know, having a camera in every 

698
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,480
corner like you do in England. 
And then you, you're processing 

699
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,200
everybody's data in real time 
with all of these real time 

700
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,680
images. 
And what this gives you is, and 

701
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,280
that's the thing about 
propaganda, it's supposed to be 

702
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,920
an all-encompassing environment.
So you have this now, this 

703
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,600
all-encompassing environment 
that's monitoring everything, 

704
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,680
that's processing the data in 
real time. 

705
00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:43,400
And then it's keying off 
algorithmically on, on key 

706
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,280
phrases, create actions, key 
whatever, you know, interpreting

707
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:51,160
photographs, the, you know, the 
algorithms then then, you know, 

708
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,640
do analytical work for the break
it all down. 

709
00:44:54,680 --> 00:45:01,440
And what it promises is a kind 
of control of society that a 

710
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,760
propagandist 100 years ago could
only dream of. 

711
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,800
So in this sense, if you say 
that, you know, big data is, is 

712
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:14,280
the new oil, Yes and no oil 
still remains, you know, the new

713
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,640
oil. 
But really what this is, is now 

714
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:22,680
propagandistic control at a 
level that, you know, was 

715
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,240
heretofore unimagined, because 
now you can generally use the, 

716
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:31,600
the social credit systems and, 
and these sort of things to, to 

717
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,920
quote UN quote, nudge people 
into correct behaviors so that 

718
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:36,880
they believe that they're, 
they're simply doing it. 

719
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:38,560
And that's part of the whole 
thing of propaganda is people 

720
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,200
believe that they're acting 
under their own free will, but 

721
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,920
they're being manipulated. 
And propaganda really isn't 

722
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,560
about changing how you think, 
but it's changing how you act. 

723
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:51,800
And then your thoughts will 
align with your actions. 

724
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,200
Propaganda is concerned more 
about orthopraxis than it is 

725
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,600
about orthodoxy. 
And there, there's numerous 

726
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:03,960
examples that you can give where
people think and behave in one 

727
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,120
way in certain parts of their 
life, but in the key aspects 

728
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,600
that the propagandist needs them
to act correctly, they act 

729
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,320
correctly, right? 
So you take for example, most 

730
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,440
PMCS, they get married, they 
have families, they stay 

731
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,000
married, they save their money. 
They do all of these things that

732
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,640
you would think are very, very 
conservative things, right? 

733
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:27,360
But when they go to the ballot 
box, they vote Democrat. 

734
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,080
And when you need them to come 
out to a peaceful demonstration 

735
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,000
for BLM, they come out to a 
peaceful demonstration of BLM 

736
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,640
and raise their fist. 
When you need them to speak out 

737
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,520
in a meeting to clamp down 
dissenting voices, they speak 

738
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,480
out in a meeting and clamp down 
dissenting voices. 

739
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,840
They do all the things that you 
need to do. 

740
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,520
But at the same time, in many 
parts of their lives, they act 

741
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,800
and behave as conservatives. 
So if you were to separate them 

742
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:57,160
off from the from the propaganda
and begin talking to them person

743
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:01,400
to person, you can get them to 
discover that much of the way 

744
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,520
that they live their lives and 
the much of the way they behave 

745
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,880
and think is very conservative. 
But in all the key areas of the 

746
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,360
propagandist wants them to be 
aligned with the system. 

747
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,120
They get up and go to work every
day. 

748
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,440
They do all the things, you 
know, they vote in the right 

749
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,760
way, they support all the right 
policies. 

750
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,840
You know, they're all gung ho in
the committee and when they're 

751
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,080
in a meeting room with their at 
the office, they're the ones 

752
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:23,680
that say, hey, listen, we have 
to support Israel. 

753
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,280
We have to support Ukraine. 
We have to make sure that we're 

754
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,680
for trans rights. 
We, you know, BLM and, and we 

755
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,640
have to be for diversity. 
So on all of the key metrics and

756
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,000
areas that you need them to be 
aligned with the system, They're

757
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:40,160
aligned with the system, but 
they in in many ways how they 

758
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,480
live their lives and kind of 
things they do. 

759
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:43,880
So and they live like 
conservatives in many ways, 

760
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,200
which is that you saw they have 
these bizarre dichotomies. 

761
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,560
And so it really isn't about 
them being brainwashed 

762
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:53,280
automatons, it's about them 
acting in certain key ways that 

763
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:58,120
support the agenda of the system
where, you know, the, the key 

764
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,040
metric of, you know, how do we 
achieve human progress? 

765
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:05,880
And so the people are aligned to
act in a way that the, you know,

766
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:10,400
in a sense the, the, the key 
managers, the, the, the 

767
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:15,200
propagandist has decided is this
is the way that human progress 

768
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:16,760
is achieved. 
And and as long as they're 

769
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,440
acting in that accord, then 
they're fine. 

770
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,520
Yeah, I think there I think to 
go back to the data is the new 

771
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:28,040
oil analogy. 
What I found interesting about 

772
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,800
it is if you think of oil as the
the resource that basically 

773
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,280
created the the the industrial 
revolution that you know, is the

774
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,480
thing that they the resource 
that really put it on OverDrive.

775
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:46,480
The data is a new oil is a new 
resource for this new industrial

776
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,680
revolution, say this new 
technocracy, this new 

777
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:55,920
technological push and that I 
the way I see with AIAI is this 

778
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,920
intermediary. 
It's like if you take the human 

779
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:05,160
beings create raw data, crude 
and AI then becomes the 

780
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,720
refinery. 
So we feed that data into the AI

781
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:14,600
or the AI then selects all this 
data and transmutes it into 

782
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,200
other images, other data, right?
So you have data, creating data,

783
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,520
creating data. 
One thing Matt Erickson 

784
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,560
mentioned on the Peter 
Thielfrender fed that everyone 

785
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:29,640
should go watch if you haven't 
already, the is that when you 

786
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:35,200
plug AI into AI, in terms of, 
you know, AI is talking to AI to

787
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,760
create, to create images, it 
goes psychotic. 

788
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:39,680
It's like it. 
Doesn't get weird results like 

789
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:41,920
very very weird results. 
Right. 

790
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:47,000
Whereas so the human component 
is absolutely necessary even 

791
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,880
with the prompts. 
So that to me is, I find, I find

792
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,240
really interesting, you know, 
when you're looking into and in.

793
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,320
In in many ways, it dovetails 
into just sort of interrupted. 

794
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,440
It dovetails into Fingleton's 
point that like even in an 

795
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,120
automated factory, you need 
human input to keep that factory

796
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,120
going, right? 
And so in a sense, AI is the 

797
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:10,640
same thing. 
It needs human input to have to 

798
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:14,320
have property ordered results. 
Right. 

799
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,600
And then then we get into if you
start looking at insert 

800
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:25,240
Girardian models, what gets 
really interesting is that well,

801
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,840
well this OK, before we do that 
you send me a quote from Kamal 

802
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:30,240
Harris. 
I mean, we can cover this and I 

803
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:33,080
think we have I don't know how 
long we have you on for I've. 

804
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,160
I've got I'm actually good for 
time, so as long as you're OK. 

805
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:41,480
Yeah, yeah, we're good. 
So 'cause I think this, there's 

806
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:43,440
another part of this 
conversation about how the right

807
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:47,720
wing gets suckered into using to
being progressives or the right 

808
00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:50,360
wing within the liberal frame 
are. 

809
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,120
Progressive and we can talk 
about, yeah, it just comes down 

810
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,880
to the fundamental nature of 
propaganda, right, In a sense 

811
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:57,760
that way that I think a lot on 
the right don't understand. 

812
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,240
So I'll just read the quote 
here. 

813
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,880
This is from from Kamala 
Harris's official ex profile. 

814
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,360
Our campaign is not just about 
US versus Donald Trump. 

815
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,560
It's about two different visions
for our nation. 

816
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,240
One focus on the future, the 
other on the past. 

817
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:20,920
We fight for the future. 
Yes. 

818
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:31,120
And that that in a sense is so 
this gets back to propaganda as 

819
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:37,320
a a sociological phenomenon. 
So most people don't understand 

820
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:45,280
that modern technological 
Western society is at its heart 

821
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:50,600
fundamentally liberal, right? 
So that that, or let's say this 

822
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:55,000
liberalism is fundamentally 
aligned with the general 

823
00:51:55,000 --> 00:52:00,400
cultural ethos of modernity. 
Liberalism is its natural 

824
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:05,840
political philosophy. 
So what Alluul argues is that 

825
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:16,080
for for propaganda to work, it 
has to take root or it has to, 

826
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:20,520
it has to work with what is 
there within the person. 

827
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:24,600
So in this regard, he says to 
This is why propaganda requires 

828
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:27,440
a lot of scientific involvement 
approach because you need to 

829
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:32,720
figure out, you know, how do 
people think and you know what 

830
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:34,480
makes them tick. 
And so you, you do all of that 

831
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:39,320
sociological and scientific 
research so that way you can tap

832
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:43,320
into the key things. 
Now what Elul argues is that all

833
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:48,960
propaganda has to be because 
it's a sociological phenomenon. 

834
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:53,080
In other words, it it's 
necessary to make modernity 

835
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,040
work. 
Is it? 

836
00:52:55,320 --> 00:53:01,840
It has to be based on the key 
myths upon which modernity is 

837
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,880
built, right? 
And so, and This is why in many 

838
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,560
ways, the Christian, the 
traditionalist are the true 

839
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,480
Christian like, who really 
understands their faith and, and

840
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,160
understands the, the, the core 
theological premises. 

841
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,720
And, you know, recognizes that 
modernity and Christianity are 

842
00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:22,840
incompatible. 
And, and in this way, you, you, 

843
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,000
you stand outside of this and, 
and propaganda for the, for the 

844
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,280
true conservative, propaganda 
becomes a thing that you can't 

845
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:32,760
even use. 
So he argues that there are 4 

846
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:37,800
foundational presuppositions or 
myths of the modern world, 

847
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:41,240
right? 
So the first one is that man's 

848
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:46,560
aim in life is happiness. 
So again, you can see this with,

849
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,880
you know, you know, life, 
liberty and the pursuit of 

850
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:53,080
happiness. 
So this is this is a key 

851
00:53:53,080 --> 00:54:00,920
fundamental Dr. within within 
modernity is to find happiness 

852
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,520
within this life in the material
world. 

853
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:10,120
OK, The second one is that man 
is naturally good. 

854
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,680
OK, so you dispense with the 
doctrine of original sin. 

855
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,240
And this is the fundamental 
divide between right and left in

856
00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:22,680
my mind, is this divide over, 
you know, what do you think of 

857
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,320
the, of the, the condition of 
man? 

858
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:30,040
Are man born as blank slates or 
are they or, or good or are they

859
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:35,680
born fundamentally flawed? 
And a lot of things are 

860
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:41,960
downstream from this. 
And then third, that history 

861
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:46,680
develops in endless progress. 
OK, so that the, the, this is 

862
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,360
the point of, of human history 
is, is progress. 

863
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,400
So and you know, cosmologically 
evolution is, is the 

864
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,000
cosmological frame that that 
justifies that. 

865
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,360
So we have our own origin. 
So modernity has its own origin 

866
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,520
story, just like the Genesis 
story we had. 

867
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:06,440
You know, modernity gives us the
evolution story that justifies 

868
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,760
human progress because, you 
know, what is evolution but 

869
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,920
progress on a cosmic scale, 
right? 

870
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:14,960
And then finally, the fourth 
thing is that everything is 

871
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,200
matter, that there is nothing 
beyond the material. 

872
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,840
There's no God, there's no 
spirits, there's no afterlife. 

873
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,280
There's, you know, so your 4 
fundamental myths, man's aim in 

874
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:27,200
life is happiness. 
He's naturally good. 

875
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,120
He develops an everything in 
endless progress and everything 

876
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:32,760
is matter. 
So he says, you know, the basic 

877
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:36,480
myths of the modern world are, 
you know, science and scientific

878
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,200
progress helps achieve that. 
And that again this, this idea 

879
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,520
of history, that history is 
moving forward in progress. 

880
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:47,760
And then he says from these are 
derived the fundamental or you 

881
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:50,400
know, orientations that 
propaganda is built on. 

882
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,120
So he talks about the myth of 
work and we were, we've 

883
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:58,560
mentioned this, this idea that, 
you know, because because we 

884
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:02,600
have to build our future, work 
becomes a central component. 

885
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,040
You have to do the work right 
of, of building the future. 

886
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,080
Again, the myth of happiness, 
which he says is not the same 

887
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:10,560
thing as the presumption of 
happiness. 

888
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,320
He also talks about the myth of 
the nation. 

889
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,840
It's just another fundamental 
idea upon which propaganda is 

890
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,000
built. 
Again, the myth of the youth and

891
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,920
the myth of the hero. 
So the propaganda is forced to 

892
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,040
build on these propositions and 
to express these myths, for 

893
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,120
without them, nobody would 
listen to it, right? 

894
00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:30,760
So here's here's a quote from a 
lul. 

895
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:38,000
So a propaganda that stresses 
virtue over happiness and 

896
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:41,840
presents man's future as one 
dominated by austerity and 

897
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,640
contemplation would have no 
audience at all. 

898
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:49,440
A propaganda that questions 
progress or work would arouse 

899
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:55,040
disdain and reach nobody. 
Propaganda must also follow the 

900
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:59,760
general direction of evolution, 
which includes the belief in 

901
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:01,920
progress. 
Right? 

902
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:06,080
So he also then says this in in 
in this regards, politically 

903
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:10,080
says because the left is aligned
with these fundamental myths, he

904
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:14,040
says the political left is 
respectable. 

905
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:20,320
The right has to justify itself 
before the ideology of the left 

906
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,440
in which even the rightists 
participate. 

907
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:28,520
All propaganda must contain and 
must evoke the principal 

908
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:33,200
elements of the ideology of the 
left in order to be accepted. 

909
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,000
And that's why I, I, I pointed 
that quote out to or that that 

910
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,040
tweet out to you from Kamala 
Harris because I'm like, that's 

911
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:44,880
that essential, the essence of 
that principle right there in 

912
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:49,600
like 240 characters basically of
like, that's the fundamental 

913
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,920
propagandism. 
We are for the future. 

914
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:57,440
We are for human progress. 
So you vote for us if you want 

915
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,280
to be free because our opponents
are for the past. 

916
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:06,640
Therefore that you know that 
world of dominated by austerity 

917
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:11,680
contemplation and you know the 
questions progress and you know,

918
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:14,920
hinders program. 
And so you see this OK, so a 

919
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:19,160
really, really good example of 
this, you know how basically 

920
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:22,560
everybody is a progressive in in
the modern world. 

921
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,520
So Rush Limbaugh, everybody's 
favorite conservative. 

922
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:29,640
We all grew up listening to 
Rush, but if you remember the 

923
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:33,640
debates over the environmental 
movement, right, how did Rush 

924
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:36,720
frame this at the time? 
So for him, the anti 

925
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:42,760
environmentalists, they were the
people that wanted to stop human

926
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:44,400
and economic progress, 
scientific. 

927
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:49,960
So here we are, we on the right,
we're advancing, we're the right

928
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,800
is about their progressives. 
But they're like, say you might 

929
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:57,240
call them economic progressives.
So the the battle is not really 

930
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,880
over. 
Should we or shouldn't we have 

931
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:01,560
modernity? 
Should we or shouldn't we have 

932
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:05,400
human, you know, this idea of 
human progress, but how best to 

933
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:09,240
achieve this thing that we all 
want, which is human progress? 

934
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:13,360
So on the right, they argue, 
well, you know, progress is best

935
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:17,520
achieved when we get rid of 
government intervention. 

936
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:19,760
We allow the economy to to 
flourish. 

937
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:23,360
Everybody will be prosperous and
happy and free and they'll have 

938
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:25,840
all the things they want. 
So the anti environmentalist, 

939
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:28,200
what they want to do is they 
want to stifle innovation, They 

940
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:31,840
want to stifle the economy. 
And So what we need to do is we 

941
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:35,200
need to get these people off the
backs of our of of our 

942
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:38,040
scientists and our economists. 
Just let the scientists go to 

943
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:41,600
work and they'll figure out ways
to make money off of cleaning up

944
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,920
the environment. 
And that's when the environment 

945
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:47,720
will get cleaned up. 
And, you know, that was that was

946
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:49,760
Rush Limbaugh. 
And and, you know, we have a 

947
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:51,760
hard time to leave because, 
well, Russia's a conservative, 

948
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:55,560
but Russia was actually a 
progressive and just a certain 

949
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,000
type of progressive. 
And most of the people on the 

950
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,440
right today are a certain type 
of progressive. 

951
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,440
So let's say, for example, if 
you believe like you have DEI 

952
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:07,240
versus the meritocracy, right? 
Both of those are fundamentally 

953
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:12,760
progressive, right? 
So DEI says that equality is the

954
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:16,760
way that we achieve. 
The utopian future that we all 

955
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:21,000
want, right? 
Whereas the meritocrat, he says,

956
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:25,680
no, the way that we achieve 
greatness in the future is by 

957
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:29,320
striving for excellence. 
Then we can create the techno 

958
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,760
future that we know will 
liberate us, give us happiness 

959
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:38,640
and give us that bright future. 
So both the meritocracy and DEI 

960
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,040
and both of these are technical 
apparatus, and they're both 

961
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:42,880
basically fundamentally the 
same. 

962
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:46,760
They're using technology to 
orchestrate a future. 

963
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:51,880
Both of these are fundamentally 
progressive ideas that deal with

964
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:54,840
human progress, right? 
Neither of them is conservative.

965
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:58,480
So when you look at, you know, 
our political battles, you 

966
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:02,120
basically have conservative 
progressives and you have 

967
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:05,680
liberal progressives, or you 
have economic progressives or 

968
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,560
you have social progressives. 
And throughout our economy, we 

969
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:15,720
have basically even even the 
debate over abortion today, this

970
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:20,960
whole debate over abortion, like
abortion absolutism, even these 

971
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,640
are framed and, and are thought 
up in terms of, of 

972
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:27,440
progressivism. 
So in other words, the 

973
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,600
progressive future is a future 
free from abortion. 

974
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:33,760
So therefore we must use the 
administrative system in the 

975
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:38,200
system of law to impose it on 
the nation, right, to impose 

976
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:40,800
this law in the nation. 
Because if we impose this on the

977
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:45,560
nation, this is how we obtain 
the progressive future of a good

978
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:49,200
and moral and upright society. 
All of the visions that we have 

979
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:52,840
for politics, every single one 
of them are essentially a 

980
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,560
progressive. 
It's just battles over which 

981
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:57,840
form of progressivism is going 
to dominate. 

982
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:00,560
And This is why like even the in
the right and left battle. 

983
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:04,640
So if we have a propaganda 
battle on in our politics today,

984
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:09,760
it's not a battle between a true
conservatism and liberalism. 

985
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:14,400
It's a battle for which form of 
progressivism is going to 

986
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:17,640
dominate. 
So one of the reasons I started 

987
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,520
this podcast early on, one of 
the things that happened to me 

988
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:30,040
in 2020 and that had a cascade 
effect was I'd became, I wanted 

989
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:33,960
to break the liberal frame for 
myself and then for others. 

990
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:39,760
And in my quest to break this 
frame, and it wasn't to destroy 

991
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,920
liberalism or anything too 
grandiose. 

992
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:46,760
I needed to free my brain from 
it because I became very aware 

993
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:53,000
of how all my thinking was 
caught in this box and I 

994
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:56,960
couldn't out think the box like 
I, I had to get free of the box 

995
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:58,840
in order to go what, what is 
this? 

996
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:02,640
Like, what is happening? 
Why, why, why are all my 

997
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:06,480
preconceptions wrong 
fundamentally? 

998
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:10,680
And that's, I mean, I had a 
religious experience that, that,

999
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:16,760
that, that promoted this kind of
project in the end, when I 

1000
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:21,760
became, it's a very simple 
explanation that, and I'll 

1001
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,760
explain my way. 
I'm using these terms and you 

1002
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:26,040
tell me if you agree with them 
or not. 

1003
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:31,200
Modernity to me is the removal 
of God from the hierarchy. 

1004
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:34,760
Once you remove God from the 
hierarchy and you put man 

1005
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:38,800
instead in there, so you take 
out Christ and you put in man. 

1006
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:42,200
The problem with putting man in 
there is that man then becomes 

1007
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:46,240
indistinct, becomes this 
unmanned, this, you know, 

1008
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:52,160
progressive man, but this, this 
liberal man. 

1009
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:56,360
But that liberal man keeps 
changing constantly. 

1010
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:58,920
And as you, as you're, as you're
saying, it's, there's a, a 

1011
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:02,800
conflict between conservative 
liberal man and, and progressive

1012
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,320
liberal or, you know, liberal, 
liberal man, however you want to

1013
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:08,640
how you want to dictate it. 
This is the Ubermensch. 

1014
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:11,600
This is the, you know, whatever 
term you want to use, but the 

1015
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:13,480
Ubermensch is not Uber. 
He's retarded. 

1016
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:20,200
And in order to break the frame 
successfully, you need to 

1017
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:22,560
reinstate God into the 
hierarchy, because what's 

1018
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:24,520
happened is that it becomes this
cascade effect. 

1019
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:27,080
So you remove God from the 
hierarchy, then all of a sudden 

1020
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:29,800
you have to remove the king, 
then you have to remove the 

1021
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:32,200
father, and then you have to 
remove the mother. 

1022
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:39,040
So now children being brought up
in this current state of affairs

1023
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:44,040
have no models. 
All their models are either 

1024
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:49,040
corrupt, like literally corrupt,
or they've been told that their 

1025
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:52,640
models are corrupt. 
And so then you get to the 

1026
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:56,040
troons and this kind of 
phenomena, it doesn't seem weird

1027
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:58,840
to me anymore. 
It's like, well, of course you, 

1028
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:04,840
you, you are distrustful of your
own sense of being because if 

1029
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:08,400
you're a man and you've modeled 
your father or you're you, you 

1030
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:13,040
see your father in you and yet 
you're told that your father is,

1031
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:16,400
is evil and a problem just by 
being a father alone. 

1032
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:22,000
No, nothing specific about him. 
Then you have to question your 

1033
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:24,600
own self. 
Then your identity becomes at 

1034
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:30,120
question. 
And that's where these models 

1035
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:33,680
begin to break apart. 
So the only way to break liberal

1036
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:40,440
frame is to put God back in 
primacy and then to restore in 

1037
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:43,720
some ways the desire, at least 
for a king. 

1038
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:47,800
And I don't necessarily mean a 
man sitting on the throne, but a

1039
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:53,880
leader who, who is in the 
traditional sense of a king, the

1040
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:55,560
king. 
We're not even talking about a, 

1041
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:57,560
you know, supreme power on that 
stuff. 

1042
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:03,560
That's, that was actually a, an 
enlightenment idea, But the, 

1043
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:06,480
the, the old form of the king 
where the king was actually the 

1044
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:10,080
center of culture. 
So the, the king would project 

1045
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:13,960
earthly power and, and presence 
and people would model the king 

1046
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:16,480
in their own way. 
So they would model God and 

1047
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:18,880
Christ. 
And then the king, who's being, 

1048
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:20,800
who's being directed by the 
church. 

1049
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:24,600
And then the, so that your 
father is, is trying to fulfill 

1050
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:27,520
all these different levels of, 
of, of the hierarchy. 

1051
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:30,640
And maybe he succeeds me, he 
doesn't. 

1052
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:33,120
Maybe he's a good 
representation, whatever, But 

1053
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:34,680
then you're modeling your 
father. 

1054
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:38,680
And this is again, going back to
my idea of, of, of the way out 

1055
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:41,000
from the, from the vengeful son 
spirit that we're, we're 

1056
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:42,760
experiencing. 
I think what we'll be 

1057
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:45,880
experiencing much more in the 
coming years is to model the 

1058
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:51,320
prodigal son is to return to the
father to be, to repent in 

1059
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:56,520
humility, to then and then be 
redeemed so that we can then 

1060
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:58,240
turn around and start redeeming 
our dads. 

1061
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:00,800
And it's in a sense redeeming 
the 20th century. 

1062
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:05,360
And the way we do that, I think,
is by doing what they could, 

1063
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:11,680
they did not or could not, which
is get humble, you know, stop 

1064
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:16,120
with this prideful assertation 
that cause, along with 

1065
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:20,920
progressivism, is this pride 
that we have the answers that we

1066
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:24,120
can change these things into 
something good and beautiful. 

1067
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:26,720
And the good and the beautiful 
and the true can be can be 

1068
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:28,880
created a whole hawk out of 
these ideologies. 

1069
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,040
And we're watching these 
ideologies fall apart in front 

1070
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:33,920
of in front of us. 
We're seeing that, as I've said 

1071
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:36,240
before, and sorry, I'll end with
this and throw it back to you. 

1072
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:41,840
I feel like we're the, the meta 
crisis cause crisis is now the 

1073
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:44,440
buzzword. 
But the, the meta crisis I think

1074
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,400
we're in is, is a, is a crisis 
of, of consequence. 

1075
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:52,240
I do not believe and no one is 
ever going to convince me that 

1076
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:55,600
planes falling from the sky was 
part of the plan. 

1077
01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:59,080
I just don't believe that, 
right? 

1078
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,600
I don't believe that our that 
these elites and these, you 

1079
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:06,800
know, the men behind the 
curtains and all that stuff are 

1080
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:10,400
know what they're doing anymore.
And I think that their plans 

1081
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:13,560
were watching this happen live 
in Britain, you know, where 

1082
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:19,160
cursed armor just seems to be 
determined to to turn the entire

1083
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:21,040
world against him in in in one 
week. 

1084
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:22,319
It's pretty it's pretty 
stunning. 

1085
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:24,399
I don't think that's part of a 
plan. 

1086
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:29,760
I just think that they they've 
they've run out of room and the 

1087
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:33,040
contradictions that are created 
within the liberal frame 

1088
01:08:33,319 --> 01:08:37,399
eventually drive you crazy. 
Now the problem is that when 

1089
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:39,920
some of these guys are driving 
crazy, they also have the 

1090
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:42,200
mechanisms of power and they can
make your life pretty miserable.

1091
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:47,279
But I also, again, another 
bitter white pill is that I, I 

1092
01:08:47,279 --> 01:08:51,359
feel that we're, we're going to 
breakthrough this, whether it's 

1093
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:57,040
tomorrow or next week or in 
November or next year or in 60 

1094
01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:01,680
years, I'm not sure. 
But I feel that there that the 

1095
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:08,399
the current state of majority is
falling apart and it it's going 

1096
01:09:08,399 --> 01:09:10,760
to get replaced by something 
different. 

1097
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:14,040
I'm not saying that's better, 
but it's going to be different. 

1098
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:21,319
What do you think about that? 
Well, there, there's a lot 

1099
01:09:21,319 --> 01:09:23,080
there. 
OK, so. 

1100
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:25,560
I drop, I drop a lot on your 
plate, Sir. 

1101
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:27,880
That's kind of how. 
I go, yeah, that's how we. 

1102
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:29,560
Roll well. 
I respect you. 

1103
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:32,240
I I know, I know you. 
You're you're intelligent enough

1104
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:34,080
to figure out my Wizzle Wazzle 
so. 

1105
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:37,359
Yeah, there we go. 
How? 

1106
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:41,319
How much have you read Murcia 
Eliade? 

1107
01:09:42,279 --> 01:09:43,600
0. 
Zero. 

1108
01:09:44,279 --> 01:09:49,359
You should read the the myth of 
the return or no? 

1109
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:51,040
What is it? 
Is it the myth of the eternal 

1110
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:54,360
return? 
I got to Google this again. 

1111
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:05,240
Mircia Eliade. 
Now there we go. 

1112
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:07,160
Books. 
Yeah. 

1113
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:09,720
The Myth of the Eternal Return, 
1949. 

1114
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:19,040
So Eliade is a histories of 
religion guy and with some, you 

1115
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:22,680
know, dubious mid century 
associations in Romania, I 

1116
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:24,400
believe it was. 
He ended up coming and teaching 

1117
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:31,360
at the University of Chicago. 
And yeah, no, no, but he's good.

1118
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:34,800
That's OK. 
So that's Eastern Europe. 

1119
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:36,600
That's that's that's Eastern 
European ick. 

1120
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:38,680
That's just, Oh, yeah, yeah, 
yeah, that's internal. 

1121
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:40,520
Internal kind of. 
Yeah, there we go. 

1122
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:42,360
Yeah, Well, the inside joke, 
right? 

1123
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:44,360
Yeah. 
The the greasy. 

1124
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:49,720
This is like. 
The OK so so. 

1125
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:51,040
You smell like trout. 
It's weird. 

1126
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:58,480
Yeah, there we go. 
So with Eliade, he one of the 

1127
01:10:58,480 --> 01:11:03,520
things that he argues with, and 
I find this again with, you 

1128
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,960
know, in our conversation with 
Walter Ong, one of the the 

1129
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:11,360
things that authors like Ong and
Eliade are very helpful for is 

1130
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:17,920
to get us out of our framework 
for understanding the world 

1131
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:22,480
through the lens of the modern 
and helping get us into how did 

1132
01:11:22,480 --> 01:11:25,160
a pre modern think about the 
world and how, you know, in 

1133
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:27,800
terms of how was their frame 
different from ours. 

1134
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:35,160
And so Eliade looks at this 
notion of time in regards to the

1135
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:39,680
ancients and then the Christian 
notion of time and the modern 

1136
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:42,040
notion of time. 
So we're all familiar with the 

1137
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:48,040
idea of the cyclical history, 
the, you know, and that's sort 

1138
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:51,320
of the myth of the eternal 
return, that history is 

1139
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:54,600
archetypal, it's cyclical, but 
the same archetypes keep 

1140
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:56,680
manifesting themselves over and 
over again. 

1141
01:11:57,040 --> 01:12:02,040
So in this type of world and 
frame, meaning is out there in 

1142
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:05,120
the world, OK, The world 
inherently has a, a structure of

1143
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:08,920
meaning and it manifests itself 
in cycles. 

1144
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:15,840
And so one of the ways that you,
you in a sense grow or fulfill 

1145
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:19,120
yourself as a person is, you 
know, let's say, and, and the, 

1146
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:23,000
the old biblical stories very 
much are archetypal and they 

1147
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:27,160
manifest this idea of recurring 
themes and recurring archetypes.

1148
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:31,560
And there's a lot of this, this 
secular notion of the of, of 

1149
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:34,560
eternal return even within the 
Old Testament Scriptures. 

1150
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:41,920
So, and this is how a man like 
Josiah, a king like Josiah gets 

1151
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:45,600
framed as a second David, that 
type of thing. 

1152
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:52,240
So if you wanted to become a 
man, you become a man like the 

1153
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:55,320
person in the great story. 
So you live into the stories and

1154
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:58,040
you become a great man, or you 
become the good king, the great 

1155
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:00,680
king, these types of things. 
So the archetypes are out there 

1156
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:03,560
and then you live into them. 
You become the great warrior, 

1157
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:06,400
you become the farmer, you 
become the housewife, you become

1158
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,080
the wise with all these 
different archetypes that are 

1159
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,200
out there and you live into the 
archetype. 

1160
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:13,280
Now they wouldn't call them 
archetypes, they would just be 

1161
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:17,840
part of you live into the 
stories with the Christian 

1162
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:19,920
world. 
We generally, people generally 

1163
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:24,200
say that, you know, Christianity
introduced linear time, which is

1164
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:26,680
both yes and no. 
And this was a fundamental 

1165
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:29,000
insight and Elliotti really 
helped me understand that. 

1166
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:33,640
And Elliotti argued that the 
Christian understanding of time 

1167
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:38,640
was in the biblical 
understanding time was that time

1168
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:44,480
is a a static architecture. 
So in other words, the events 

1169
01:13:44,480 --> 01:13:50,240
that we experience in this sense
belong to God's plan. 

1170
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:56,400
So we as human beings live under
this architecture of God's plan.

1171
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:58,960
So it begins with God and his 
creation. 

1172
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:03,800
Then there was this fall, and 
then in the center of God's plan

1173
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:06,840
there is Christ, and he redeems 
creation, and then there's the 

1174
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:11,200
return. 
And so the, the significant 

1175
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:15,240
events in world history all 
happen because of God's 

1176
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:18,880
initiation. 
It's God's, God's doing, God's 

1177
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:21,400
event. 
And I forget, you know, 

1178
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:25,120
sometimes you pick things up and
you, you wish that you had made 

1179
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:27,960
note of it because you didn't 
realize it would be important 30

1180
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:31,240
years later. 
But I read somewhere that there 

1181
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:35,240
was a kind of psychic break that
occurred at the end of the year 

1182
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:38,920
1000, that much of, you know, 
the Renaissance modernity and 

1183
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:42,200
everything was kicked off. 
Humanism became a thing 

1184
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:46,040
following the year 1000 when 
Christ didn't return as many 

1185
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:47,680
expected him to do. 
So they created a kind of 

1186
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:50,520
psychic break in culture. 
Now, if you tie this into your 

1187
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:55,160
Spangler, Spanglerian, you know,
view of the world that, you 

1188
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:57,800
know, the West really begins 
around the year 1000, it kind of

1189
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:00,680
makes sense. 
So there is this sense that 

1190
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:04,880
because Christ didn't return, 
people didn't right away 

1191
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:10,000
abandoned their faith, but they 
stopped looking heavenward in 

1192
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:14,760
that sense for the meaning of 
all the events around them. 

1193
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:19,840
So up until this time the world 
was fairly static and so you fit

1194
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,680
yourself into events. 
Just to jump in for a second, 

1195
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:26,680
people forget their herring of 
Haiti's story. 

1196
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:29,560
A lot of Christians kind of skip
over that, especially in the 

1197
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,240
Western tradition, because one 
of the things that happened in 

1198
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:36,520
the heroin of Hades is that 
Christ locked up this locked up 

1199
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:39,840
Satan for 1000 years. 
So. 

1200
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:42,560
Yeah, there you go. 
Dates matter. 

1201
01:15:43,480 --> 01:15:46,760
Dates do matter. 
So and and this is also why 

1202
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:50,120
Orthodoxy, even if you're not 
Orthodox, that Orthodoxy does 

1203
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:59,120
matter, right? 
So it's the so prior to this, 

1204
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:02,520
there is this idea of of like 
sort of the hierarchy of being. 

1205
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:10,400
So because history and world 
events belong to God, the way 

1206
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:15,720
that you ascend and better 
yourself is vertically by 

1207
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:19,160
ascending the hierarchy of 
being, by directing yourself to 

1208
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:23,840
God, perfecting yourself. 
And in this way too, you know, 

1209
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:26,200
there's a lot of talk these days
about, you know, the warrior 

1210
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:29,840
spirit and Christian, one of the
things that Christianity does is

1211
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:35,960
it takes this idea that the the 
warrior is not first of all, 

1212
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:38,920
like the great man is not first 
of all the one who conquers his 

1213
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:40,280
neighbor. 
Although because we live in a 

1214
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:42,640
violent world, you know, we kind
of accept because we're not 

1215
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:45,120
trying to, they're not trying to
perfect the world. 

1216
01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:47,040
They just simply accept the fact
that the world is a violent 

1217
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:49,440
place and that violence is 
sometimes necessary. 

1218
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:53,320
But that what happens is in this
Christian framework, violence 

1219
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:56,080
becomes contained within this 
notion of a hierarchy of being. 

1220
01:16:56,080 --> 01:17:00,560
So even the night with all of 
his violence is trying to ascend

1221
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:04,120
the ladder of being towards God 
in the same way that that, you 

1222
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:06,760
know, the professional priest or
the monk is trying to do the 

1223
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:09,120
same. 
And so everybody in society is 

1224
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:12,000
trying to ascend the ladder of 
being, to draw themselves closer

1225
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:16,160
to God and the way that you, you
conquer the world, so to speak, 

1226
01:17:16,160 --> 01:17:19,400
you turn it inward and rather 
than conquering your neighbor, 

1227
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:22,000
you conquer yourself. 
So this is in a sense where the 

1228
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:24,280
knightly virtues come in. 
So the knight is a sense trying 

1229
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:27,680
to frame himself within this 
this context of virtue. 

1230
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:31,400
And in so doing, he also ascends
the ladder of being. 

1231
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:35,160
So everything becomes framed and
and so you're conquering 

1232
01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:38,640
yourself. 
So the year 1000, this breaks 

1233
01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:44,920
and all of a sudden people 
realize that wait a minute, 

1234
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:47,560
they're not necessarily 
abandoning their faith, but a 

1235
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:50,680
shift occurs. 
Now we're no longer waiting for 

1236
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:52,240
God. 
So people think that. 

1237
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:55,680
So we're have this new humanism 
comes about where man is at the 

1238
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:58,760
center of things and and or, you
know, it doesn't happen 

1239
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:04,840
overnight, but it begins to 
shift and then the religious 

1240
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:09,040
vision becomes one of we have to
imminentize the eschaton. 

1241
01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:10,680
This is that sort of 
imminentization. 

1242
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:15,280
So we have to now realize God's 
heaven on earth through human 

1243
01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:17,440
progress. 
So this we're no longer waiting 

1244
01:18:17,440 --> 01:18:19,960
for Christ to return because he 
didn't return in year 1000. 

1245
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:22,880
So we do it in history. 
So the output of that or, or the

1246
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:26,800
the end result of this, this is 
what Eliade argues is that now 

1247
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:31,880
we take on God's burden of 
history onto ourselves. 

1248
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:37,440
And so we take on the burden of 
history and it becomes up to us 

1249
01:18:37,440 --> 01:18:41,080
now to instantiate utopia. 
And so this is again, it doesn't

1250
01:18:41,680 --> 01:18:44,080
happen overnight in the year 
1000, but beginning with 

1251
01:18:44,080 --> 01:18:46,400
humanism, there is this slow 
unfolding events. 

1252
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:50,800
And then you can see this now 
too, is that if you interiorize 

1253
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:53,960
it, as now you combine this with
like with nominalism and so 

1254
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:56,360
forth. 
And you know, because nominalism

1255
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:59,760
cuts you off from that world of 
metaphysics, because if we can't

1256
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:02,640
prove that there's a connection 
with these underlying 

1257
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:05,400
metaphysical realities, they 
must be just a projection of our

1258
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:08,360
mind, right? 
So nominalism says that that all

1259
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:10,720
of the ideas and the concepts 
that are out there are just 

1260
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:13,040
merely projections of my mind 
onto the world. 

1261
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:15,840
I'm creating that order. 
I can't prove that they're 

1262
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:17,480
there. 
I just simply have to accept 

1263
01:19:17,480 --> 01:19:19,240
that I'm the one that's that's 
creating this order. 

1264
01:19:19,440 --> 01:19:22,480
So if I'm creating this order 
and I'm going forward, right? 

1265
01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:25,640
And then you get into sort of 
the romantics and this notion of

1266
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:29,680
personal genius, you get to a 
point where you have like the 

1267
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:32,720
transgender person or the 
transgender person is merely 

1268
01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:36,000
taking on to themselves the 
burden of history of creating 

1269
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:39,120
their own identity, right? 
So I'm going to now create my 

1270
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:42,000
own utopia, right? 
So I believe, as you know, if 

1271
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:44,360
I'm like a man and I believe 
that I'm a woman, I'm going to 

1272
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:47,040
create my own history. 
I have the burden of my creating

1273
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:49,960
my own identity. 
And now we finally have the 

1274
01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:52,760
power of science. 
We can, this is that same 

1275
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:55,480
version right across the side. 
The power of science is going to

1276
01:19:55,480 --> 01:19:58,840
help me realize my vision of 
utopia, my own personal vision 

1277
01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:02,840
of utopia, which is me as a a 
man who believes he's a woman 

1278
01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:06,280
who can now realize who he is 
perfectly. 

1279
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:09,240
I can instantiate my own utopian
person. 

1280
01:20:09,480 --> 01:20:11,840
So you think to yourself like, 
oh, this transgenderism, this is

1281
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:13,840
weird. 
And I think no, it's a perfectly

1282
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:19,040
logical outworking of modernity.
Like this is modernity worked 

1283
01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:21,600
out to its end and this is kind 
of instance like we take the 

1284
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:24,480
power of technology to work out 
my own and it's this whole thing

1285
01:20:24,480 --> 01:20:27,600
I need to find myself, what's my
purpose in life and all these 

1286
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:30,640
kinds of things. 
You know, transgenderism, it's 

1287
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:34,800
just basically all of that. 
And it's it's it's this this 

1288
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:39,840
notion of the burden of history 
just worked out on a personal 

1289
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:42,280
level with the power of 
technology to back it. 

1290
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:45,040
There's nothing bizarre about 
transgenderism, once you 

1291
01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:48,920
understand the fundamental 
philosophical understandings of 

1292
01:20:48,920 --> 01:20:51,560
modernity, that that 
transgenderism is really its end

1293
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:54,000
result. 
One of the things I figured out 

1294
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:57,880
in the first year after having 
my spiritual transformation was 

1295
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:01,040
the crushing weight of the 
atheist. 

1296
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:04,960
So the atheist has to take on 
all of morality, history, 

1297
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:09,120
reality itself upon their 
shoulders because they they are 

1298
01:21:09,120 --> 01:21:11,520
what? 
Essentially saying that they are

1299
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:15,800
the arbiter of reality. 
There is no higher order this, 

1300
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:19,880
you know, they might have been 
inheriting a tradition, be it 

1301
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:23,960
Western or law fair or whatever 
have you, but essentially 

1302
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:26,840
morality has to rest on them. 
And this is the weight of the 

1303
01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:29,080
cross. 
So they're they're they're still

1304
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:31,280
bearing cross, but they're 
bearing the full weight. 

1305
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:37,120
The one thing I realized by 
accepting Christianity again was

1306
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:41,120
how again, going back to that 
Christ story of Christ bearing 

1307
01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:48,480
that cross, and how that story 
transformed and converted entire

1308
01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:52,640
Pagan cultures. 
Because at no, this is and this 

1309
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:55,600
is unique and this is something 
Gerard really strikes home with.

1310
01:21:55,600 --> 01:22:00,520
It is that there is no other 
mythological story of a God 

1311
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:04,040
humbling themselves the way that
our God did. 

1312
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:10,640
And when you really try to get 
through your head what the 

1313
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:15,640
weight of the cross upon God 
would would be that you're 

1314
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,640
talking about an Immaculate 
being who could just, you know, 

1315
01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:22,200
change it if you wanted to. 
But he didn't. 

1316
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:24,360
He went through. 
With, and this was Gerard's like

1317
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:27,240
really like for all of the 
insights Gerard's had, you know 

1318
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:31,040
that, that, that central idea 
that you can take memetic 

1319
01:22:31,040 --> 01:22:35,560
violence, you know, this, this 
sense of like, you have 

1320
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:39,760
something that I want and I want
to take it from you or there's a

1321
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:42,160
problem in society. 
So we must find a scapegoat. 

1322
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:47,160
And I must put that, you know, 
I, I have to sacrifice you in 

1323
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:53,600
order to restore order to the 
society that Christ in his 

1324
01:22:53,600 --> 01:23:01,640
sacrifice is able to take the 
weight of all of that 

1325
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:04,680
scapegoating, all of those 
memetic desires. 

1326
01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:09,520
You can cast them on to Christ. 
He dies and yet lives. 

1327
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:14,040
And that, and in the sense it's 
the dying and the living that 

1328
01:23:14,560 --> 01:23:17,160
really it's not, it's not that 
you just cast them on him. 

1329
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:19,440
He's dead and he's gone and you 
have to do this again. 

1330
01:23:19,440 --> 01:23:25,360
But because he, he dies and he 
lives, you then have the power 

1331
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:29,280
to break the cycle of memetic 
violence that you, you no longer

1332
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:32,680
have to scapegoat your neighbor 
because you can, you can give 

1333
01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:35,440
the problem over to Christ, you 
know, sort of cast it on the 

1334
01:23:35,440 --> 01:23:37,800
cross and allow Christ to take 
that over. 

1335
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:43,600
And also you, you can then 
direct your desires to Christ 

1336
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:48,960
and you no longer have to envy 
your neighbor and potentially 

1337
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:53,280
kill him to take his stuff 
because you can cast her. 

1338
01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:57,840
And, and it when, you know, 
when, when I first read her, it 

1339
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:01,680
was just sort of it's, it's an 
insight so profound that you 

1340
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:03,720
realize, look, how did I not see
this before? 

1341
01:24:04,440 --> 01:24:07,200
You know? 
And and so that's that is really

1342
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:08,840
yes. 
Well then, and then, and then 

1343
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:12,240
you go ahead and read Saint 
Piezo's or some of some of the 

1344
01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:15,600
Orthodox Saints and you realize 
that the Orthodox Church has 

1345
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:19,240
been talking about this since, 
since, you know, year 1 

1346
01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:21,000
essentially. 
And even in the West where where

1347
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:23,200
they in the West, we have talked
about this as well too. 

1348
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:24,520
Sure, sure. 
But. 

1349
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:28,160
And but I think sometimes it 
just, it takes somebody saying 

1350
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:32,200
it in a new way to really kind 
of just, Oh yeah, that's right, 

1351
01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:34,120
that this is really what we 
believe kind of thing, you know,

1352
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:38,720
to saying it in a fresh way. 
Yeah, giving suffering context 

1353
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:43,440
is extremely powerful. 
Why it not being woe is me, but 

1354
01:24:43,480 --> 01:24:47,120
oh, is me. 
Oh, oh, I OK, now I have this 

1355
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:48,480
suffering. 
What can I do with it? 

1356
01:24:48,480 --> 01:24:51,480
Like how where where's my 
responsibility lies? 

1357
01:24:51,480 --> 01:24:53,320
Or even if it's not my 
responsibility, you know, 

1358
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:56,880
something happened. 
You it's you can't control it. 

1359
01:24:57,200 --> 01:24:59,920
OK, well, what do I do with it 
now? 

1360
01:24:59,920 --> 01:25:02,560
What, what, what, what new 
opportunities does this 

1361
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:06,840
suffering open up to me? 
You know, is it just exposing 

1362
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:08,640
the distance I have between me 
and God? 

1363
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:12,800
And you know, what do I need to 
do to close that distance in 

1364
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:15,200
some ways, which is all very 
powerful stuff. 

1365
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:20,760
Well, and it was also like, you 
know, for, for, for how his star

1366
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:22,960
has fallen, you know, Jordan 
Peterson and even in his 

1367
01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:25,840
biblical in terms of, for the 
many flaws that people have 

1368
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:29,200
pointed out in his, his 
mythological approach to 

1369
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:32,920
interpreting some of the, the, 
the, the Genesis story, there 

1370
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:34,920
was some really good insights 
that he had. 

1371
01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:39,240
And one of those ones was the 
Cain and Abel story of, you 

1372
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:42,040
know, the sense of what do you 
do? 

1373
01:25:42,440 --> 01:25:44,680
And, and this is one of the 
things I think that a lot of 

1374
01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:47,480
people don't appreciate that up 
until the point that his 

1375
01:25:47,480 --> 01:25:51,240
sacrifice is rejected, there's 
no real hint in the story itself

1376
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:54,800
that he's done anything wrong. 
But what happens when you do 

1377
01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:59,440
everything right and your 
sacrifice is not accepted right?

1378
01:25:59,440 --> 01:26:02,920
You don't succeed. 
What do you do with that right 

1379
01:26:02,920 --> 01:26:04,560
in Cain? 
The story of Cain is you know, 

1380
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:08,320
and, and, and, and in many ways,
you know, God then approaches 

1381
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:10,080
Cain and says you've got a 
problem. 

1382
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:12,160
You need to deal with this sin 
crouches at the door and you 

1383
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:14,760
need to master it. 
And this is the fundamental 

1384
01:26:14,760 --> 01:26:16,520
thing. 
And but Cain in a sense doesn't 

1385
01:26:16,520 --> 01:26:17,880
master. 
He lets his bitterness and 

1386
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:20,360
resentment that his brother's 
sacrifice was accepted and he 

1387
01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:25,000
kills his brother and, you know,
reenact that kind of Gerardian, 

1388
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:27,400
you know, scapegoat that the 
brother must be at the fault 

1389
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:30,040
because I didn't, you know, God 
didn't receive my sacrifice. 

1390
01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:31,880
And God, you know, God never 
tells him. 

1391
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:35,000
It's just like maybe there was 
something in Cain that he saw. 

1392
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:38,400
But there's, you know, in the 
story, you know, once the 

1393
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:41,560
sacrifice is rejected, it's no 
longer about the sacrifice, 

1394
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:42,600
Cain. 
It's about how you're going to 

1395
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:44,720
deal with, you know, how are you
going to respond to, to the 

1396
01:26:44,720 --> 01:26:47,520
rejection of the, of, of, of 
your sacrifice? 

1397
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:50,360
And are you going to let 
resentment grow and are you 

1398
01:26:50,360 --> 01:26:52,520
going to let bitterness grow? 
And so there's a, there's a, a 

1399
01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:55,320
profound lesson there. 
And this is basically the second

1400
01:26:55,320 --> 01:26:58,240
story right after the fall into,
you know, and you think to 

1401
01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:02,080
yourself how, you know, the 1st,
the 1st 11 chapters of Genesis 

1402
01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:06,000
are in many ways, not so much 
even about the past, but help us

1403
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:08,560
to understand why things are the
way they are today. 

1404
01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:12,680
Like why does bitterness and 
resentment and the Cain and Abel

1405
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:15,920
story seemed to reenact itself 
throughout society over and over

1406
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:17,560
and over again. 
And like, you're like, well, OK,

1407
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:20,960
this is like a fundamental 
reality of sinful world, this 

1408
01:27:20,960 --> 01:27:23,440
bitterness and resentment. 
And then, you know, you dovetail

1409
01:27:23,440 --> 01:27:27,000
that into to into what Christ 
does through the the lens of 

1410
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:29,160
how, you know, Gerard helps us 
understand that. 

1411
01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:32,320
And you realize that, well, the 
way to get rid of that is just 

1412
01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:37,440
to cast that resentment onto God
and then to refuse the, you 

1413
01:27:37,440 --> 01:27:40,720
know, the temptations that that 
the evil one will put forward to

1414
01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:43,040
you, to dwell on your bitterness
and to take it out on your 

1415
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:46,040
brother. 
Yeah, I mean, one of the one of 

1416
01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:50,480
the ways to think about time 
just to to button that hole that

1417
01:27:50,480 --> 01:27:53,520
you mentioned earlier, and this 
is again coming from a more 

1418
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:58,160
orthodox framework, is that 
these things are all layered. 

1419
01:27:58,160 --> 01:28:00,360
So all these things are 
happening all at once, 

1420
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:03,200
perpetually. 
So the garden is still 

1421
01:28:03,200 --> 01:28:05,640
happening, the fall is still 
happening. 

1422
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:10,920
The end times, the actual real 
Esquitan. 

1423
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:14,440
What's happening? 
You're happening. 

1424
01:28:14,440 --> 01:28:16,800
All these things are all 
happening all at once. 

1425
01:28:17,240 --> 01:28:21,280
Now we're experiencing our 
segment, our our sliver, our 

1426
01:28:21,280 --> 01:28:24,200
plate of time in our in our 
lifetime. 

1427
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:32,560
But all the things that have 
that have happened before hang 

1428
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:34,120
on pause for the cause. 
The oh, there we go. 

1429
01:28:34,280 --> 01:28:38,120
Oh, there we go. 
Yeah, the the producer is going 

1430
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:40,560
to bed. 
So a little 1 needs to be tucked

1431
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:41,440
in. 
There we go. 

1432
01:28:41,440 --> 01:28:44,920
A hug from Daddy. 
All righty. 

1433
01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:53,440
She's cute. 
Thankfully she's cute because 

1434
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:55,120
she wouldn't get away with a lot
of stuff otherwise. 

1435
01:28:55,640 --> 01:28:57,880
So, yeah, so all these things 
are happening all at once, all 

1436
01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:01,880
all the same time now. 
So the past obviously is 

1437
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:04,360
informing us because we can 
experiences the past and through

1438
01:29:04,360 --> 01:29:06,440
history and learn about it and 
so on and so forth and 

1439
01:29:06,440 --> 01:29:08,680
incorporate our lives. 
The future is happening. 

1440
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:13,920
The future is happening at the 
same time as well, but at at 

1441
01:29:13,960 --> 01:29:16,720
almost a different philosophy. 
And this is what revelations 

1442
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:21,080
are, is that we are through our 
news, right? 

1443
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:24,800
That this consciousness and 
we've gone completely off 

1444
01:29:24,920 --> 01:29:25,880
propaganda, folks. 
Oh yeah. 

1445
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:27,720
Well, I mean, we can get back to
it too. 

1446
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:29,880
That's that's fine. 
Welcome to the two bit podcast. 

1447
01:29:29,880 --> 01:29:32,240
This is this is how we roll. 
OK, we'll get back. 

1448
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:34,960
We'll we'll find a way back by 
this one point. 

1449
01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:40,760
So if you can imagine that the 
end times has always been 

1450
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:46,800
happening that it will that it's
happening in our parlance in the

1451
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:50,920
future, but it's happening. 
But we're seeing the, we're 

1452
01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:54,520
getting the, the, the data, 
right. 

1453
01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:58,400
The data stream is trickling in 
from the future, let's say, but 

1454
01:29:58,400 --> 01:30:03,000
at our news, because we're, our 
consciousness is not in the 

1455
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:06,040
body, it's from without the 
body, right? 

1456
01:30:06,040 --> 01:30:09,800
So what we could say is that 
the, the news in the, in the 

1457
01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:14,840
Orthodox tradition is, is sort 
of our faculty for understanding

1458
01:30:15,240 --> 01:30:17,880
revelation. 
And the revelation is that, 

1459
01:30:18,400 --> 01:30:22,520
let's say the God's frequency 
is, is, is giving us this 

1460
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:25,560
information and we pick up on it
and we translate it. 

1461
01:30:25,560 --> 01:30:28,760
And through discernment, we, we 
try to understand what these 

1462
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:30,880
things are. 
And some of us are better at 

1463
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:36,720
than others or better at at 
different times than others. 

1464
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:45,160
So this, this information in 
some ways is, is not of us. 

1465
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:47,720
Let's say this is divine 
propaganda. 

1466
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:54,520
If we're going to try to wing 
this back around and I'm trying 

1467
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:59,800
not to veer into heresy, but you
know, we'll try our best, but 

1468
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:03,960
that would be the almost the 
best way of understanding it is 

1469
01:31:03,960 --> 01:31:07,480
that when you get these 
intuitions and sometimes it's 

1470
01:31:07,480 --> 01:31:10,440
not from God, it's from the 
other guy. 

1471
01:31:10,760 --> 01:31:12,840
So you have to be able. 
To discernment. 

1472
01:31:13,320 --> 01:31:15,960
Discernment is very is very key.
Go talk to a priest. 

1473
01:31:16,360 --> 01:31:22,320
But once you discern that it's 
from, from God, then that's the 

1474
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:24,800
interesting thing, right? 
Because then you have to do, 

1475
01:31:25,480 --> 01:31:27,520
then you get to deal with a 
whole bunch of really 

1476
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:32,080
interesting stuff, which nine 
times out of 10 is just get 

1477
01:31:32,080 --> 01:31:37,840
humble, stop being prideful, 
bear witness and, and get 

1478
01:31:37,840 --> 01:31:40,080
yourself good with that. 
And then all these other things 

1479
01:31:40,480 --> 01:31:43,000
kind of don't matter anymore. 
They matter less and less and 

1480
01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:46,120
less. 
You know, I find myself becoming

1481
01:31:46,720 --> 01:31:51,800
much more agnostic on the 
material realm about these 

1482
01:31:51,800 --> 01:31:53,960
things where I view them as out 
of interest. 

1483
01:31:53,960 --> 01:31:56,800
And obviously they, they have 
the ability to affect me on a 

1484
01:31:56,800 --> 01:32:00,480
physical level. 
So you got to, you got to pay 

1485
01:32:00,480 --> 01:32:05,080
attention. 
But in terms of overall interest

1486
01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:09,120
in, let's say, involvement, I'm 
getting more and more detached 

1487
01:32:09,200 --> 01:32:15,000
because as I commit more to, to,
to, to God and religion, the 

1488
01:32:15,000 --> 01:32:17,680
less a lot of these other things
really matter to me. 

1489
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:19,920
It's more like, huh, well, 
that's huh, they're doing that 

1490
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:21,720
now. 
Oh, well, that's cool. 

1491
01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:24,760
Like, why were they doing that? 
Oh, this Kamala character is 

1492
01:32:25,160 --> 01:32:27,280
pretty funny. 
Let's let's have some chuckles. 

1493
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:31,520
But I mean, I'm not that worried
about things anymore. 

1494
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:41,040
No, it it's it's one of these 
there there are probably two 

1495
01:32:41,040 --> 01:32:43,160
ways that we could go. 
And one is to talk about, you 

1496
01:32:43,160 --> 01:32:45,240
know, the relationship between 
the Christian faith and 

1497
01:32:45,240 --> 01:32:49,000
propaganda and then maybe 
dovetail back into, you know, 

1498
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:52,280
the the notion of like the the 
material in that regard. 

1499
01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:55,680
But Alluul notes that there's a 
dilemma for. 

1500
01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:57,360
Christian, let's, let's, let's 
do that. 

1501
01:32:57,360 --> 01:33:00,840
Let's, let's do relationship 
with Christianity and 

1502
01:33:00,840 --> 01:33:03,920
propaganda, 'cause I think for a
lot of a lot of my audience, 

1503
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:08,720
that would be a major, a major 
point of interest. 

1504
01:33:08,720 --> 01:33:12,880
I'll be right back. 
The, the, the, The thing is, is 

1505
01:33:12,880 --> 01:33:20,960
that you can't really do 
propaganda in a sense in good 

1506
01:33:20,960 --> 01:33:24,040
faith. 
So you're, you're caught in a 

1507
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:30,680
dilemma. 
And this is, it's, it's too 

1508
01:33:30,680 --> 01:33:34,960
difficult to reach people one at
a time. 

1509
01:33:34,960 --> 01:33:36,760
This is sort of the whole thing.
We have to, you know, you have 

1510
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:39,440
to convert people kind of one at
a time or whatever, right? 

1511
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:46,120
But The thing is, is that the 
propagandist, to be a good 

1512
01:33:46,120 --> 01:33:50,240
propagandist, can't believe, 
they can't believe in the they, 

1513
01:33:50,280 --> 01:33:52,720
they have to remain detached 
because the propagandist has to 

1514
01:33:52,720 --> 01:33:56,360
recognize the propaganda is 
essentially about control. 

1515
01:33:56,360 --> 01:33:59,120
And this gets back to sort of 
the, the AI question, right? 

1516
01:33:59,160 --> 01:34:05,440
And, and AI is, is more about 
control than it is about in a 

1517
01:34:05,440 --> 01:34:07,800
sense, powering the industrial 
world with oil. 

1518
01:34:08,200 --> 01:34:09,680
So it's how do you control 
people? 

1519
01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:14,120
So that this whole notion of 
control, I think so you can't 

1520
01:34:14,120 --> 01:34:17,200
reach people one at a time 
because it's just, it's a thing.

1521
01:34:17,200 --> 01:34:20,840
So you think to yourself, maybe 
we as a Christian can use 

1522
01:34:20,840 --> 01:34:24,080
propagandist techniques. 
But the problem is that if you 

1523
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:29,000
use propagandist techniques in 
order to reach people, you 

1524
01:34:29,000 --> 01:34:36,600
essentially give away the gospel
because you materialize it and 

1525
01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:42,240
you become manipulative and it 
fundamentally cuts you off from 

1526
01:34:42,240 --> 01:34:47,600
God and fundamentally alienates 
you from each other because you 

1527
01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:50,240
have to, in order, in order to 
do propaganda. 

1528
01:34:50,240 --> 01:34:52,680
Remember we, we talked about 
this, that you need sort of the 

1529
01:34:52,680 --> 01:34:54,440
masked man. 
So you have to actually 

1530
01:34:54,440 --> 01:34:56,680
breakdown community to do all of
these kind of things. 

1531
01:34:57,000 --> 01:35:00,520
So if you then though as a, as a
church, say, well, OK, we're not

1532
01:35:00,520 --> 01:35:05,120
going to do propaganda the, the,
in a modern world. 

1533
01:35:05,120 --> 01:35:08,840
The problem is, is that the 
moment your people go outside of

1534
01:35:09,400 --> 01:35:14,280
the, the church environment, 
they're being propagandized by 

1535
01:35:15,400 --> 01:35:17,480
society and everything else. 
And this is one of the things, 

1536
01:35:17,480 --> 01:35:23,640
so they're being inculcated into
how to act by the propaganda 

1537
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:25,400
that they drown in everywhere 
else. 

1538
01:35:25,400 --> 01:35:28,880
They come into church and you're
expected to connect them to God 

1539
01:35:29,320 --> 01:35:31,600
in the brief period of time that
you have. 

1540
01:35:31,600 --> 01:35:34,960
And then you think to yourself, 
well, maybe what I should do is,

1541
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:36,800
is use propaganda to get to my 
people. 

1542
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:39,880
This is in some ways the the, 
the secret church model, the 

1543
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:41,840
mega church model kind of does 
that. 

1544
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:47,000
Then the only problem is is that
in order to do that you have to 

1545
01:35:47,000 --> 01:35:52,720
adapt the gospel to modernity. 
It has to then become about 

1546
01:35:52,720 --> 01:35:57,640
happiness, that people are 
basically good, that it's about 

1547
01:35:57,640 --> 01:36:00,360
human progress, and that 
everything is matter. 

1548
01:36:00,640 --> 01:36:02,960
But where does God fit into a 
world where everything is 

1549
01:36:02,960 --> 01:36:06,320
matter? 
So church becomes about making 

1550
01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:09,040
people happy, and it's about 
life fulfillment. 

1551
01:36:09,440 --> 01:36:13,200
And so you do it though in a 
gloss of God language. 

1552
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:17,200
So if you try to reach people by
means of propaganda, what you 

1553
01:36:17,240 --> 01:36:19,720
end up doing is emptying the 
gospel of its power. 

1554
01:36:20,080 --> 01:36:22,760
But in a sense, if you don't use
propaganda in a modern society, 

1555
01:36:22,760 --> 01:36:25,400
you're caught in a dilemma that 
the moment your people have any 

1556
01:36:25,400 --> 01:36:28,840
contact with the the world and 
then there's very hard to avoid 

1557
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:32,880
contact with the world, they 
drown in propaganda and all the 

1558
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:35,760
messaging in life undercuts 
their relationship with God. 

1559
01:36:36,160 --> 01:36:41,600
So it's it's very, very 
difficult in the modern world 

1560
01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:46,760
because of the sociological 
necessity of propaganda for 

1561
01:36:46,760 --> 01:36:52,200
people to have a vibrant, 
dynamic, living relationship 

1562
01:36:52,200 --> 01:36:55,880
with God where they're able to 
meet God and connect with him. 

1563
01:36:56,200 --> 01:36:59,400
Because everything in society 
with the propaganda that we're 

1564
01:36:59,400 --> 01:37:02,800
immersed in undercuts that and 
undermines. 

1565
01:37:02,800 --> 01:37:09,120
That Xavier Olivia and then Chad
says, how do you propaganda 

1566
01:37:09,120 --> 01:37:11,240
prove your people? 
Let's put a pin in that. 

1567
01:37:12,760 --> 01:37:14,480
So I think we're kind of moving 
towards that. 

1568
01:37:14,480 --> 01:37:17,880
And there's a there's a way we 
can we can combine this with 

1569
01:37:18,040 --> 01:37:22,640
sort of anti memetics, which is 
something popularized by Luke 

1570
01:37:22,640 --> 01:37:25,920
Burgess, who's a very 
interesting guy, who's a 

1571
01:37:25,960 --> 01:37:29,000
Gerardian, I'll say scholar who 
wrote this book wanting, which 

1572
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:32,080
is a good book to pick up if you
want to, let's say a modern 

1573
01:37:32,080 --> 01:37:36,160
primer on Gerard. 
But here's a, here's some way to

1574
01:37:36,160 --> 01:37:41,320
think of it. 
And again, I'm, I'm trying to 

1575
01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:44,080
not skirt my way into heresy 
here. 

1576
01:37:44,080 --> 01:37:48,520
But if we think of the Sermon on
the Mount, let's, let's, let's 

1577
01:37:48,520 --> 01:37:51,000
put this term out here, divine 
propaganda. 

1578
01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:55,040
And I know propaganda has a 
negative context in our circles.

1579
01:37:55,040 --> 01:38:00,480
So let's just separate it from 
good, bad context. 

1580
01:38:01,320 --> 01:38:07,800
And so the the, the the Sermon 
on the Mount in many ways was is

1581
01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:13,040
divine propaganda is a way of 
being is is God literally 

1582
01:38:13,040 --> 01:38:19,840
talking to you us throughout 
time, explaining it, saying this

1583
01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:23,720
is the way forward. 
If you wish to live a good life,

1584
01:38:23,720 --> 01:38:29,320
if you wish to model Christ and 
therefore model God, understand 

1585
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:33,120
the the essence through the 
energies, then this is the way 

1586
01:38:33,120 --> 01:38:42,120
to do it. 
And that that positive ISM that 

1587
01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:48,880
that again, reinstating God into
the hierarchy and and not doing 

1588
01:38:48,880 --> 01:38:52,840
it out of some sort of you can't
ironically pray, you know, you 

1589
01:38:52,840 --> 01:38:56,560
can't cynically get married. 
There's, there's certain 

1590
01:38:56,560 --> 01:39:00,280
processes that, that, that that 
break this modernist mold 

1591
01:39:00,720 --> 01:39:05,920
because even in, in the Jesus 
prayer, which is in the Orthodox

1592
01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:11,560
tradition, what St. 
Paeos has said about it was 

1593
01:39:11,560 --> 01:39:14,080
like, it's basically taking all 
the gospels and combining into 

1594
01:39:14,080 --> 01:39:17,200
one prayer, which is Lord Jesus 
Christ unto God, have mercy upon

1595
01:39:17,200 --> 01:39:18,920
me, a Sinner, right? 
A. 

1596
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:23,560
Sinner. 
Yeah, and that is the synergism 

1597
01:39:23,600 --> 01:39:26,680
of the Sermon of the Mount. 
The entire Gospels, the entire 

1598
01:39:26,680 --> 01:39:29,320
New Testament is contained in in
those lines. 

1599
01:39:30,400 --> 01:39:34,600
So and, and that in a sense, if 
you want to take it into a 

1600
01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:39,160
modernist terms, is propaganda 
because it's literally informing

1601
01:39:39,160 --> 01:39:44,040
you how to be, how to, how to 
Orient yourself in the world. 

1602
01:39:44,640 --> 01:39:53,600
But it's doing it in a way that 
is without resentment, without 

1603
01:39:54,760 --> 01:39:58,520
it's a cure for it, right? 
Because I feel that liberalism 

1604
01:39:58,520 --> 01:40:02,120
in general, and I've said this 
and Matthew said this and a few 

1605
01:40:02,120 --> 01:40:05,600
others, is that liberalism is a 
resentment factory. 

1606
01:40:05,680 --> 01:40:08,200
It, it, it, it resides on 
resentment. 

1607
01:40:08,200 --> 01:40:11,560
The, the entirety. 
This is why I say liberalism is 

1608
01:40:11,560 --> 01:40:16,760
Luciferian to its core, because 
it's concept of through it's 

1609
01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:20,880
it's birthplace and nominalism 
on through is is this this this 

1610
01:40:20,880 --> 01:40:26,200
desire to liberate yourself from
all restrictions right to to be 

1611
01:40:26,200 --> 01:40:29,880
God. 
To take one's place as God, not 

1612
01:40:29,880 --> 01:40:34,360
to be one with God as in as, as 
in with theosis, but to become 

1613
01:40:34,360 --> 01:40:39,560
God itself himself. 
And in that prideful desire to 

1614
01:40:39,560 --> 01:40:42,200
liberate yourself from all 
bounds to. 

1615
01:40:42,200 --> 01:40:45,360
And so you can see this with the
elites where this transhumanist 

1616
01:40:45,360 --> 01:40:48,560
idea, which is well, if, if we 
are to be gods, then we must 

1617
01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:52,000
think like gods and act like 
gods and eat like gods and all 

1618
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:53,760
these things. 
So we will not eat of animals. 

1619
01:40:53,760 --> 01:40:57,920
We will eat of only of bugs and 
plants and vegetarianism and all

1620
01:40:57,920 --> 01:41:02,280
this crud, but which again is 
anti scripture and anti God and 

1621
01:41:02,280 --> 01:41:05,160
anti Bible and anti Christian 
and all the other all the other 

1622
01:41:05,160 --> 01:41:11,320
things that doesn't seem to 
matter the so to to break 

1623
01:41:11,320 --> 01:41:15,400
propaganda and I'll just from my
perspective and see what you do 

1624
01:41:15,400 --> 01:41:19,320
with this Kryptos is to be anti 
propaganda is to be almost anti 

1625
01:41:19,960 --> 01:41:26,040
mimetic in a modernist sense is 
to remove this unmanned from the

1626
01:41:26,040 --> 01:41:29,200
hierarchy that they're asking 
you to model yourself against 

1627
01:41:29,200 --> 01:41:32,720
this nebulous being, this 
ubermensch that doesn't exist 

1628
01:41:32,720 --> 01:41:34,480
and is never well defined 
anyways. 

1629
01:41:35,000 --> 01:41:37,880
That seems to change with the 
times, you know, through the 

1630
01:41:37,880 --> 01:41:41,280
spirit of the ages and to 
realign yourself back to the 

1631
01:41:41,280 --> 01:41:44,560
rightful model, which in a 
Western tradition and let's say 

1632
01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:46,800
even an Eastern tradition is 
Christ. 

1633
01:41:47,640 --> 01:41:50,400
And once you re establish that 
for yourself, then you can re 

1634
01:41:50,400 --> 01:41:52,560
establish that with others and 
you start building communities 

1635
01:41:52,560 --> 01:41:55,840
around that concept. 
And that's how you break this. 

1636
01:41:56,760 --> 01:41:58,240
That's the only way I for it I 
can say. 

1637
01:41:59,120 --> 01:42:02,320
So I have like four thoughts on 
this. 

1638
01:42:02,400 --> 01:42:08,960
So the first is you have to 
understand and accept the fact 

1639
01:42:09,840 --> 01:42:16,880
that propaganda works and that 
you are, if you grow up in a 

1640
01:42:16,880 --> 01:42:22,520
modern Western context, you are 
already at the baseline a highly

1641
01:42:22,520 --> 01:42:25,760
propagandized person. 
So if you you have to accept 

1642
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:30,440
that the propaganda works and it
has worked on you and that you 

1643
01:42:30,440 --> 01:42:36,760
are not immune and that you are 
already acting in line with the 

1644
01:42:36,760 --> 01:42:39,680
system already, you need to 
accept that. 

1645
01:42:40,920 --> 01:42:46,160
Then the second thing is that 
understanding propaganda, and 

1646
01:42:46,160 --> 01:42:51,000
this was something that that 
Mirlu, Yos Mirlu in The Rape of 

1647
01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:55,720
the Mind underscored that one of
the keys to resisting 

1648
01:42:56,680 --> 01:42:59,440
brainwashing, and this is 
specifically on brainwashing, is

1649
01:42:59,440 --> 01:43:03,040
to understand that they're 
brainwashing you and to 

1650
01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:04,800
recognize that you're being 
brainwashed. 

1651
01:43:05,400 --> 01:43:07,960
And so if you understand that 
you're being procurangandized, 

1652
01:43:08,200 --> 01:43:11,760
if you understand the processes 
of propaganda, how they do it, 

1653
01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:15,560
why they do it, what they're 
doing to you, you can begin to 

1654
01:43:15,560 --> 01:43:18,600
resist it, right? 
So, so understanding propaganda 

1655
01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:20,400
is a key. 
So I would recommend to 

1656
01:43:20,400 --> 01:43:24,480
everybody get out of Loole's 
book and read propaganda, right 

1657
01:43:24,480 --> 01:43:31,920
Is it's so then it's the other 
things though, too. 

1658
01:43:31,920 --> 01:43:41,040
Now would be from a practical 
perspective is stop paying 

1659
01:43:41,040 --> 01:43:46,440
attention to the news seriously,
because one of the foundational 

1660
01:43:46,480 --> 01:43:50,040
elements of propaganda is the 
news. 

1661
01:43:50,120 --> 01:43:53,400
All propaganda starts with 
current events, right? 

1662
01:43:53,400 --> 01:43:58,960
And so the more focused you are 
on the news, the more vulnerable

1663
01:43:58,960 --> 01:44:01,760
you are to the propagandist. 
So the more that you get 

1664
01:44:02,640 --> 01:44:06,480
integrated into, because what 
happens is, is that you become 

1665
01:44:06,480 --> 01:44:11,000
sensitive to current news. 
And so the the news cannot 

1666
01:44:11,000 --> 01:44:13,480
permit time for a thought or 
reflection. 

1667
01:44:13,480 --> 01:44:16,040
A man caught up in the news must
remain on the surface of events.

1668
01:44:16,040 --> 01:44:17,560
He's carried along in the 
current. 

1669
01:44:17,560 --> 01:44:20,320
There's never any awareness of 
himself, his condition of his 

1670
01:44:20,320 --> 01:44:23,200
society. 
For the man who lives by current

1671
01:44:23,200 --> 01:44:25,400
events, one thought drives away 
another. 

1672
01:44:25,400 --> 01:44:27,160
Old facts are chased away by new
ones. 

1673
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:29,400
Under these conditions, there's 
no thought. 

1674
01:44:29,400 --> 01:44:32,520
In fact, modern man does not 
think about problems, he feels 

1675
01:44:32,520 --> 01:44:35,040
them. 
A man's capacity to forget is 

1676
01:44:35,040 --> 01:44:37,200
limitless. 
So if you are somebody who 

1677
01:44:37,200 --> 01:44:42,280
focuses on the news, you are 
somebody who is immensely 

1678
01:44:42,280 --> 01:44:44,640
vulnerable to propaganda to it, 
and you're caught up in the 

1679
01:44:44,640 --> 01:44:45,920
day's events. 
So that's the thing. 

1680
01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:49,320
And then I would say finally, 
and this is perhaps the most 

1681
01:44:49,320 --> 01:44:54,560
significant and this is the most
difficult is first of all, 

1682
01:44:55,280 --> 01:45:00,080
prayer, reconnecting yourself to
to God, but then also 

1683
01:45:00,080 --> 01:45:03,200
reconnecting yourself to a real 
living. 

1684
01:45:03,200 --> 01:45:07,440
And I would say Christian 
community is, is important. 

1685
01:45:07,480 --> 01:45:09,960
You have to have a real 
relationship with people that 

1686
01:45:09,960 --> 01:45:12,240
are unmediated by the 
propagandist. 

1687
01:45:12,600 --> 01:45:15,000
That there isn't like you're 
sitting in the radio, you know, 

1688
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:16,960
where the propaganda speaks to 
you and you're part of that, 

1689
01:45:16,960 --> 01:45:20,720
that that mass crowd, but that 
you're real people talking with 

1690
01:45:20,720 --> 01:45:22,000
each other. 
OK. 

1691
01:45:22,560 --> 01:45:27,080
And then I think in and amongst 
that, what we have to do is 

1692
01:45:27,080 --> 01:45:33,040
resist the modern idea that you 
are at the center of events, the

1693
01:45:33,040 --> 01:45:36,640
nominalist idea. 
So in a sense to embrace the 

1694
01:45:36,640 --> 01:45:45,440
notion that meaning is out 
there, that part of, and this is

1695
01:45:45,440 --> 01:45:49,320
a sense, the basic like the 10 
commandments, you know you do 

1696
01:45:49,320 --> 01:45:52,080
not. 
The goal is not to be true to 

1697
01:45:52,080 --> 01:45:58,080
yourself, but real meaning is 
found in fitting yourself into 

1698
01:45:59,000 --> 01:46:02,000
God's ways. 
So you live according to God's 

1699
01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:04,320
ways, you behave according to 
God's ways. 

1700
01:46:04,320 --> 01:46:06,360
You fit yourself in in that 
regard. 

1701
01:46:06,800 --> 01:46:10,840
And so you resist the old or the
this new idea that you have, you

1702
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:14,400
must create yourself. 
But there's a certain acceptance

1703
01:46:14,400 --> 01:46:19,520
that you don't have to create 
yourself, that you're given 

1704
01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:22,760
certain roles in life. 
And now today, I mean, it's much

1705
01:46:22,760 --> 01:46:26,040
harder because all of that 
architecture, I mean, it used to

1706
01:46:26,040 --> 01:46:27,640
be that you basically did what 
your father did. 

1707
01:46:27,640 --> 01:46:29,280
You were a farmer because your 
father was a farmer. 

1708
01:46:29,280 --> 01:46:31,840
So you fit into, you were a king
because your father was a king 

1709
01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:36,040
and all these sorts of things. 
But there is this sense that, 

1710
01:46:36,760 --> 01:46:38,520
you know, there is no special 
plan for your life. 

1711
01:46:38,520 --> 01:46:41,120
God does not have a special plan
for your life, right? 

1712
01:46:41,120 --> 01:46:44,000
And, and these things and you 
do, you are not at the center of

1713
01:46:44,000 --> 01:46:46,960
history, right? 
And your church does not have a 

1714
01:46:46,960 --> 01:46:50,040
special vision from God. 
You know, all of these types of 

1715
01:46:50,040 --> 01:46:53,440
things that that we generally 
that we anchor ourselves on in, 

1716
01:46:53,440 --> 01:46:56,320
in modern life because we are 
not at the center of history. 

1717
01:46:56,920 --> 01:47:02,040
God is at the center of history 
and we live, you know, under 

1718
01:47:02,040 --> 01:47:05,360
that static architecture. 
So the idea is that then you in 

1719
01:47:05,360 --> 01:47:07,560
community ascend the ladder of 
being. 

1720
01:47:08,080 --> 01:47:11,600
And that is in, in a modern 
context, you are setting 

1721
01:47:11,600 --> 01:47:15,440
yourself apart, you know, 
disconnecting yourself from from

1722
01:47:15,440 --> 01:47:18,680
the news, living in community, 
living with God. 

1723
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:21,040
And then from there you just 
basically do the best you can 

1724
01:47:21,040 --> 01:47:23,400
'cause you're going to drown in 
it everywhere, anywhere you go 

1725
01:47:23,400 --> 01:47:26,040
anyways. 
But I think this idea of sort of

1726
01:47:26,040 --> 01:47:30,880
self consciously understanding 
that meaning is out there, that 

1727
01:47:31,160 --> 01:47:33,480
part of it. 
And this is that that passage in

1728
01:47:33,800 --> 01:47:36,960
John 5, 19. 
I'm not actually going to look 

1729
01:47:36,960 --> 01:47:39,840
it up right now. 
I'm just give me a second 

1730
01:47:40,200 --> 01:47:42,520
because I think this is very, 
very decisive. 

1731
01:47:42,520 --> 01:47:47,040
And, and it, it really undercuts
a lot of, you know, people ask 

1732
01:47:47,040 --> 01:47:50,480
me all the, you know, how do I 
find out God's purpose for, for 

1733
01:47:50,480 --> 01:47:53,640
my life? 
Well, you know, the truth is 

1734
01:47:53,640 --> 01:47:56,240
that God doesn't have any 
purpose for your life, you know,

1735
01:47:56,320 --> 01:47:58,840
in, in the sense of the, the 
modern sense that where you are 

1736
01:47:58,840 --> 01:48:03,200
at the center of history and 
there's two kind of decisive 

1737
01:48:03,200 --> 01:48:08,240
passages. 
So, so here we are John 519. 

1738
01:48:09,040 --> 01:48:13,720
So Jesus gives, I tell you the 
truth, OK, the Son can do 

1739
01:48:13,720 --> 01:48:18,440
nothing by himself, OK? 
Even for Jesus there was no plan

1740
01:48:18,440 --> 01:48:20,800
for Jesus life in that sense. 
You know Jesus did not have a 

1741
01:48:20,800 --> 01:48:26,600
special plan, right? 
He can only do what he sees his 

1742
01:48:26,600 --> 01:48:31,760
Father doing, because whatever 
the Father does, the Son also 

1743
01:48:31,760 --> 01:48:33,960
does. 
For the Father loves the Son and

1744
01:48:33,960 --> 01:48:37,320
shows him all he does. 
And yes, to your amazement, he 

1745
01:48:37,320 --> 01:48:39,560
will show him even greater these
for these. 

1746
01:48:40,160 --> 01:48:44,120
For just as the Father raises 
the dead and gives them life, 

1747
01:48:44,160 --> 01:48:47,720
Even so the Son gives life to 
whom he pleases to give it. 

1748
01:48:48,240 --> 01:48:53,480
So there is this sense that God 
is at work all around you in a 

1749
01:48:53,480 --> 01:48:54,840
sense. 
There's the architecture of 

1750
01:48:54,840 --> 01:48:56,160
being. 
There's God's movement and 

1751
01:48:56,160 --> 01:49:02,480
Christian and what you need to 
do your role in this is to open 

1752
01:49:02,480 --> 01:49:08,040
your eyes to what God is doing 
and then like Jesus, join God in

1753
01:49:08,040 --> 01:49:12,680
what he's doing and make God the
set and God's action the center 

1754
01:49:12,680 --> 01:49:14,960
of your life. 
You know, so you think about, 

1755
01:49:15,040 --> 01:49:19,920
you know, what is it like to, 
you know, act in regard to to 

1756
01:49:19,920 --> 01:49:21,440
God's light? 
So there there's this wonderful 

1757
01:49:21,440 --> 01:49:24,680
little passage in Acts, you 
know, what does it mean to 

1758
01:49:24,680 --> 01:49:28,120
follow the will of God in this 
regard? 

1759
01:49:30,200 --> 01:49:32,560
And we, we often don't think of 
it because our lives become so 

1760
01:49:32,560 --> 01:49:34,800
structured. 
So, you know, we get up, we go 

1761
01:49:34,800 --> 01:49:39,640
to work, we have our schedule, 
we have our agenda, and we don't

1762
01:49:39,640 --> 01:49:42,240
often think about, you know, So 
what does this mean in a sense 

1763
01:49:42,240 --> 01:49:46,080
in a day-to-day life that you're
keeping your eyes open for what 

1764
01:49:46,080 --> 01:49:50,160
God is doing, right. 
So Philip and the Ethiopian, 

1765
01:49:50,320 --> 01:49:52,680
there's a wonderful little story
here and there's a there's a 

1766
01:49:52,680 --> 01:49:55,320
bunch of things. 
So now an Angel of the Lord said

1767
01:49:55,320 --> 01:50:00,200
to Philip, OK, go South on the 
road, the desert Rd. that goes 

1768
01:50:00,200 --> 01:50:02,600
down to Jerusalem from Gaza. 
So you're thinking, So what does

1769
01:50:02,600 --> 01:50:04,400
it mean to do the will of God, 
right? 

1770
01:50:04,840 --> 01:50:08,520
Well, Philip was in prayer, the 
Angel of the Lord. 

1771
01:50:08,520 --> 01:50:11,160
So God speaks to Philip and 
says, Philip, you know what 

1772
01:50:11,160 --> 01:50:13,480
you're going to do? 
What's my will for you? 

1773
01:50:13,560 --> 01:50:15,360
I want you to go out and take a 
walk. 

1774
01:50:18,080 --> 01:50:20,360
I want you to go out and take a 
walk, right? 

1775
01:50:20,960 --> 01:50:25,040
So he started out and on his way
he met an Ethiopian, an 

1776
01:50:25,040 --> 01:50:27,520
Ethiopian eunuch, an important 
official in charge of all the 

1777
01:50:27,520 --> 01:50:29,440
treasury of Candace, queen of 
The Ethiopians. 

1778
01:50:30,000 --> 01:50:32,000
This man had gone up to 
Jerusalem to worship and on his 

1779
01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:33,960
way home was sitting in his 
chair reading the book of Isaiah

1780
01:50:33,960 --> 01:50:37,080
the prophet. 
OK, so here, what's the next 

1781
01:50:37,080 --> 01:50:38,720
thing that the will of God says 
to him to do? 

1782
01:50:39,240 --> 01:50:43,480
So the Spirit told Philip, go to
that chariot and stay near it. 

1783
01:50:43,800 --> 01:50:46,120
So you're just going to go, 
here's the will of God for you. 

1784
01:50:46,200 --> 01:50:50,120
I want you to go over that and 
just kind of hang around and 

1785
01:50:50,120 --> 01:50:52,600
just be there. 
That's the will of God. 

1786
01:50:53,240 --> 01:50:55,720
Just go over there and just hang
around, you know, put your hands

1787
01:50:55,720 --> 01:51:01,400
in your pockets and just right. 
So Phillip ran up to the chariot

1788
01:51:01,400 --> 01:51:03,360
and heard the man reading Isaiah
the prophet. 

1789
01:51:03,840 --> 01:51:06,160
And then basically now the 
opportunity is there, right? 

1790
01:51:06,360 --> 01:51:10,280
So God was already at work with 
the Ethiopian official. 

1791
01:51:10,880 --> 01:51:14,200
And now Phillip, by listening to
God in the moment and sense of 

1792
01:51:14,200 --> 01:51:18,960
going to a walk, standing where 
he was told to stand right, was 

1793
01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:23,360
able to see what God was doing 
in the moment and how he was 

1794
01:51:23,360 --> 01:51:26,280
working in the, you know, and he
was able to ask the decisive 

1795
01:51:26,280 --> 01:51:28,080
question, you know, do you 
understand what you are reading?

1796
01:51:28,520 --> 01:51:30,680
And then from there, everything,
you know, falls up. 

1797
01:51:30,880 --> 01:51:35,600
So Philip aligned himself with 
where God was acting, and then 

1798
01:51:35,600 --> 01:51:39,560
God was able to use him. 
And this really, I think, 

1799
01:51:39,560 --> 01:51:43,840
underscores this idea of, you 
know, in a sense, there's no 

1800
01:51:43,840 --> 01:51:46,880
grand plan that God has for your
life in a sense like you are not

1801
01:51:46,880 --> 01:51:49,400
at the center of history. 
You do not carry the burden of 

1802
01:51:49,400 --> 01:51:51,920
history. 
God is out there working. 

1803
01:51:52,880 --> 01:52:01,960
That's that's who's at work. 
And your role is to adapt 

1804
01:52:01,960 --> 01:52:05,960
yourself to what God is doing in
the moment. 

1805
01:52:06,920 --> 01:52:09,480
And I think this up from a 
propaganda perspective, if you 

1806
01:52:09,480 --> 01:52:14,600
know, this in many ways 
fundamentally breaks so many of 

1807
01:52:15,120 --> 01:52:20,160
those core Western 
presuppositions, the myths upon 

1808
01:52:20,160 --> 01:52:23,120
which propaganda is built, 
right? 

1809
01:52:23,120 --> 01:52:26,040
So that, you know, if you in a 
sense reject the burden of 

1810
01:52:26,040 --> 01:52:30,160
history and you reject all of 
these fundamental and you live 

1811
01:52:30,160 --> 01:52:35,440
fundamentally different, I 
believe that it inoculates you 

1812
01:52:35,440 --> 01:52:38,760
to the messaging of the 
propagandist because his 

1813
01:52:38,760 --> 01:52:42,360
messaging is built upon these 
fundamental Western myths. 

1814
01:52:42,880 --> 01:52:47,080
One, you know, key among them is
that you know you're good. 

1815
01:52:47,360 --> 01:52:49,080
You are at the center of 
history. 

1816
01:52:49,280 --> 01:52:52,560
It's about human progress, it's 
about your happiness, it's about

1817
01:52:52,560 --> 01:52:55,400
you feeling fulfilled and all of
these things. 

1818
01:52:55,600 --> 01:52:58,400
You know, this notion that no, 
it's not about you. 

1819
01:52:58,520 --> 01:53:02,320
You are not at the center of 
history and, and it's not about 

1820
01:53:02,320 --> 01:53:05,520
making you happy. 
You know, no, it's about God and

1821
01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:08,400
what God is doing and you're 
just supposed to fit in. 

1822
01:53:08,600 --> 01:53:11,840
It's not about you feeling 
authentic or living an authentic

1823
01:53:11,840 --> 01:53:13,880
life. 
It's not about you being true to

1824
01:53:13,880 --> 01:53:16,760
yourself. 
It's not about you, you know, 

1825
01:53:16,960 --> 01:53:21,080
living your inner truth. 
It's about you in the moment, 

1826
01:53:21,320 --> 01:53:25,320
seeing what God is doing, 
opening your eyes to the 

1827
01:53:25,320 --> 01:53:27,880
metaphysical and spiritual 
realities that are all around 

1828
01:53:27,880 --> 01:53:28,960
you. 
And the way to do that is in 

1829
01:53:28,960 --> 01:53:34,600
prayer and in community and then
adapting yourself to the 

1830
01:53:34,600 --> 01:53:36,200
metaphysical and spiritual 
reality. 

1831
01:53:36,200 --> 01:53:40,000
And like, what is God doing and 
what's God's basic structure of,

1832
01:53:40,040 --> 01:53:42,920
of created order? 
And if you adapt yourself to 

1833
01:53:42,920 --> 01:53:49,680
that, then I think you go a long
way towards being able to resist

1834
01:53:49,680 --> 01:53:52,080
the, the, the messaging of the 
propagandist. 

1835
01:53:53,760 --> 01:53:56,200
So I hope that's a long answer 
for, yeah. 

1836
01:53:56,320 --> 01:54:01,160
I think that's absolutely 
brilliant and we're up to. 

1837
01:54:01,600 --> 01:54:04,480
Two hours now, Jason, this is. 
Yeah, let's let's wrap this up 

1838
01:54:04,480 --> 01:54:06,320
'cause you got another show to 
do at noon. 

1839
01:54:07,240 --> 01:54:09,640
And I actually, I do, yeah, I do
too as well, so. 

1840
01:54:09,720 --> 01:54:13,320
And I feel like we've covered, 
we've covered a lot of ground, 

1841
01:54:13,400 --> 01:54:16,400
more ground than many would 
suspect. 

1842
01:54:16,400 --> 01:54:19,960
We've, we, we, we brought it 
back around folks, and that's. 

1843
01:54:19,960 --> 01:54:23,480
We spent maybe 30 minutes 
specifically talking about 

1844
01:54:23,480 --> 01:54:25,320
propaganda, but I think there's 
a lot of good. 

1845
01:54:25,320 --> 01:54:27,440
Like the stuff we did talk about
I think was really, really good 

1846
01:54:27,480 --> 01:54:29,800
and and I think we got into like
the core ideas of it. 

1847
01:54:30,280 --> 01:54:32,720
I look, I, I and I feel you're 
going to go around the horn with

1848
01:54:32,720 --> 01:54:34,760
this anyways. 
I know you'll speak with Pete 

1849
01:54:34,760 --> 01:54:42,760
and and others about this and, 
and maybe, you know, get into to

1850
01:54:42,760 --> 01:54:47,360
more of the nitty gritty aspects
of certain things. 

1851
01:54:47,360 --> 01:54:50,120
Like, you know, what I always 
said about the show is that we, 

1852
01:54:50,120 --> 01:54:54,600
we go where the conversation 
goes, you know, and, and the 

1853
01:54:54,600 --> 01:54:58,200
conversation went to, went to 
God and, and, and Christ. 

1854
01:54:58,200 --> 01:55:03,800
And thank you for everyone in 
the chat, by the way, not me, 

1855
01:55:03,800 --> 01:55:05,600
not you. 
I, I'm not picking a fight with 

1856
01:55:05,600 --> 01:55:07,520
a mate. 
I just think you're wrong. 

1857
01:55:08,120 --> 01:55:12,560
If you're approaching the 
gospels and the similar amount 

1858
01:55:12,560 --> 01:55:14,160
is a story, you're it's not a 
story. 

1859
01:55:14,240 --> 01:55:18,080
And I know you, you think that's
me being obtuse or being just a 

1860
01:55:18,160 --> 01:55:20,840
belligerent, but I'm not, it's, 
I'm saying this out of love and 

1861
01:55:20,840 --> 01:55:23,320
out of care for you. 
It's not a story. 

1862
01:55:23,760 --> 01:55:27,480
And once you accept it, that's 
not a story in the story sense, 

1863
01:55:28,720 --> 01:55:30,800
you can move forward. 
But if you're stuck on this, I 

1864
01:55:30,800 --> 01:55:35,680
think as being a story and you 
can come up with any rationale 

1865
01:55:35,680 --> 01:55:37,680
you want for it, it's it's not a
story. 

1866
01:55:38,080 --> 01:55:40,200
You can't, I'll give you this 
example. 

1867
01:55:42,880 --> 01:55:45,680
You don't build civilization on 
the story. 

1868
01:55:46,360 --> 01:55:52,400
You don't even the old myths, 
you know, Ramis and Remus, 

1869
01:55:53,480 --> 01:55:57,440
although those were stories in a
sense, they were live realities 

1870
01:55:57,440 --> 01:56:01,360
of the people. 
People believe that they built 

1871
01:56:01,640 --> 01:56:06,160
entire structures of being based
on that story, right? 

1872
01:56:06,720 --> 01:56:11,400
So it's no longer a story. 
Now mythological structures are 

1873
01:56:11,400 --> 01:56:14,080
slightly different than what 
happens with Christianity 

1874
01:56:14,080 --> 01:56:17,000
because Christ actually breaks 
the myth structure and that's a 

1875
01:56:17,000 --> 01:56:20,360
whole different show. 
But but you have to understand 

1876
01:56:20,360 --> 01:56:26,720
that these are not stories that 
no one lives Harry Potter like 

1877
01:56:26,720 --> 01:56:28,880
some people do, like they dress 
up and they whatever. 

1878
01:56:28,880 --> 01:56:33,960
But you don't build civilization
on even Tolkien or whatever. 

1879
01:56:34,080 --> 01:56:36,440
You just don't. 
Tolkien is a reflection, is a 

1880
01:56:36,440 --> 01:56:39,600
story about Western 
civilization. 

1881
01:56:39,760 --> 01:56:42,120
But you need Western 
civilization to to exist, to 

1882
01:56:42,120 --> 01:56:44,920
have Tolkien to write Lord of 
the Rings, you understand? 

1883
01:56:45,520 --> 01:56:50,000
That and even even somebody like
even somebody like Peterson who 

1884
01:56:50,600 --> 01:56:57,400
is an evolutionary psychologist,
even Peterson makes the art 

1885
01:56:57,440 --> 01:57:01,520
like, and this is the thing too,
like we tend to think of story 

1886
01:57:02,040 --> 01:57:05,360
and myth as like that means fake
that they're not, they didn't 

1887
01:57:05,360 --> 01:57:05,840
really. 
Have. 

1888
01:57:06,800 --> 01:57:10,920
They're fables, right? 
They're just like a quaint sort 

1889
01:57:10,920 --> 01:57:13,480
of somebody made it up sitting 
around the fire and everybody 

1890
01:57:13,480 --> 01:57:15,160
liked the story, so they kept 
retelling. 

1891
01:57:16,080 --> 01:57:19,080
Those those those dumb goat 
herders didn't know what they 

1892
01:57:19,080 --> 01:57:21,200
were, what what these things 
were. 

1893
01:57:21,200 --> 01:57:23,960
So they made-up stories about 
the sun and the moon and the 

1894
01:57:24,040 --> 01:57:27,800
these things and morality and 
and also just happened to build 

1895
01:57:27,800 --> 01:57:31,120
entire civilizations based on 
this Wizzle wazzle bullshit. 

1896
01:57:31,120 --> 01:57:32,760
Like that doesn't work. 
That doesn't. 

1897
01:57:32,760 --> 01:57:34,240
That doesn't. 
Happen no, and and so you can 

1898
01:57:34,240 --> 01:57:36,640
look at a story like like the 
story this way. 

1899
01:57:36,680 --> 01:57:41,800
So now is this a videotape of 
the original event? 

1900
01:57:42,840 --> 01:57:44,880
No, like that's not be dumb, 
right? 

1901
01:57:44,880 --> 01:57:47,960
But these stories, and this is 
something that even like a 

1902
01:57:47,960 --> 01:57:52,720
Peterson would argue these 
stories are based on. 

1903
01:57:52,720 --> 01:57:55,440
And and this is so if you're 
looking at it from, say, a 

1904
01:57:55,440 --> 01:57:59,200
purely like evolutionary kind of
perspective, these stories are 

1905
01:57:59,200 --> 01:58:05,320
based on an event or a series of
events that are then picked up 

1906
01:58:05,320 --> 01:58:06,880
because people say this story is
significant. 

1907
01:58:06,880 --> 01:58:10,720
This event is significant and it
has it's revealing meaning 

1908
01:58:10,720 --> 01:58:13,800
that's out there in the world. 
And so the Torah story gets told

1909
01:58:13,800 --> 01:58:20,680
and retold and refined in a way 
that explicates and, and makes 

1910
01:58:20,880 --> 01:58:25,600
that and and and captures many 
of the depths, the nuances and 

1911
01:58:26,080 --> 01:58:28,880
the revelation and allows the 
story to be revealed in all of 

1912
01:58:28,880 --> 01:58:31,400
its its depth and its hiddenness
and all these. 

1913
01:58:32,200 --> 01:58:34,480
But let me try. 
To do this, sorry, let me let me

1914
01:58:34,480 --> 01:58:37,880
try to do my best, Peter. 
It's true on, on all levels, on 

1915
01:58:37,880 --> 01:58:41,080
multiple levels, on on multiple 
levels of of fragmentation and 

1916
01:58:41,080 --> 01:58:43,600
examination. 
It's true on all these levels. 

1917
01:58:44,920 --> 01:58:47,640
It's true up here. 
And down there it's revealing. 

1918
01:58:47,640 --> 01:58:50,760
It's look, you, you, you see it 
here and you see it there like 

1919
01:58:50,760 --> 01:58:53,960
it's, it's, it's God. 
Look at bucko. 

1920
01:58:55,280 --> 01:58:58,360
I know you look, bucko. 
Yeah, it's it. 

1921
01:58:58,680 --> 01:59:03,200
And so when you, when you look 
and, and the, the fundament, and

1922
01:59:03,200 --> 01:59:05,360
This is why in a sense, 
Scripture is not rational. 

1923
01:59:05,600 --> 01:59:07,200
It's not a sense of like 
systematic. 

1924
01:59:07,200 --> 01:59:09,240
God didn't just give us 
systematics because the stories 

1925
01:59:09,240 --> 01:59:12,160
have power. 
But these stories, even if 

1926
01:59:12,160 --> 01:59:16,560
they're not, yeah, even if 
they're not video recordings of 

1927
01:59:16,560 --> 01:59:20,160
the event thing, they are all 
rooted. 

1928
01:59:20,960 --> 01:59:23,080
And this is, I guess, a 
fundamental claim, and you can 

1929
01:59:23,080 --> 01:59:24,280
either accept it or not accept 
it. 

1930
01:59:24,440 --> 01:59:28,760
But a fundamental claim of those
of us who are Christians is that

1931
01:59:28,760 --> 01:59:36,360
the stories in the Scriptures 
are revealing the essence of the

1932
01:59:36,360 --> 01:59:40,440
meaning of real events, that 
these things actually did 

1933
01:59:40,440 --> 01:59:42,720
happen. 
Now, did they happen in the in 

1934
01:59:42,720 --> 01:59:45,520
the video recording way that we 
would like with modern history? 

1935
01:59:45,720 --> 01:59:48,320
Well, that's the wrong question 
because you're trying to impose 

1936
01:59:48,320 --> 01:59:52,560
a category of meaning onto it 
that the scriptures really they,

1937
01:59:52,600 --> 01:59:55,520
they don't care about that. 
They don't care about your, your

1938
01:59:55,520 --> 01:59:59,040
video recording notion. 
They care about the meaning of 

1939
01:59:59,040 --> 02:00:02,040
events as they revealed. 
So they, they, they, in a sense,

1940
02:00:02,360 --> 02:00:04,520
they see God at work in these 
people. 

1941
02:00:04,680 --> 02:00:07,880
They see fundamental realities 
being revealed in these stories.

1942
02:00:08,000 --> 02:00:12,840
So what's important to them is 
not that they preserve an 

1943
02:00:12,840 --> 02:00:16,800
accurate, you know, video 
account of these events. 

1944
02:00:17,000 --> 02:00:19,920
What's important to them is that
they preserve. 

1945
02:00:20,400 --> 02:00:27,280
The key archetype and, and, and 
metaphysical and sort of divine 

1946
02:00:27,280 --> 02:00:31,120
movement aspects of this story 
that these are then captured and

1947
02:00:31,120 --> 02:00:33,160
revealed in the and, and 
revealed in the telling of the 

1948
02:00:33,160 --> 02:00:35,920
story, because that's really 
what's significant in the event.

1949
02:00:36,240 --> 02:00:39,600
And so sometimes the order of 
the events change because those 

1950
02:00:39,600 --> 02:00:41,320
that changing the order of the 
events. 

1951
02:00:41,320 --> 02:00:44,920
So you see that in the Gospels 
brings out certain aspects of 

1952
02:00:44,920 --> 02:00:47,520
the, the meaning of the 
fundamental realities better 

1953
02:00:47,880 --> 02:00:49,880
than leaving them in the other 
order. 

1954
02:00:49,880 --> 02:00:51,280
It allows you to see things 
differently. 

1955
02:00:51,480 --> 02:00:53,920
So there's all these ways, but 
the, the, the story just said, 

1956
02:00:53,920 --> 02:00:55,120
well, they're stories in a 
sense. 

1957
02:00:55,120 --> 02:00:57,880
They're just kind of made-up 
thing to think is in a sense to 

1958
02:00:58,120 --> 02:01:01,320
dismiss what the texts are 
actually claiming of this stuff.

1959
02:01:01,320 --> 02:01:03,920
They're saying no, that Jesus 
was a real person. 

1960
02:01:03,920 --> 02:01:06,160
This is what he did. 
But I'm telling the story in the

1961
02:01:06,160 --> 02:01:09,560
way that I'm telling it and I'm 
recounting the speeches and the 

1962
02:01:09,560 --> 02:01:13,840
things he said. 
And I'm doing so in a way that 

1963
02:01:14,000 --> 02:01:17,760
allows you to see the meaning 
that I saw in Jesus. 

1964
02:01:17,760 --> 02:01:20,720
Like they say the the author of 
Matthew, Matthew saw. 

1965
02:01:20,720 --> 02:01:23,160
And is this, you know, God gave 
him in a sense, a certain 

1966
02:01:23,160 --> 02:01:25,600
insight. 
I saw in Jesus a certain 

1967
02:01:25,600 --> 02:01:27,760
meaning. 
And now I'm going to tell the 

1968
02:01:27,760 --> 02:01:30,440
story in a certain way that 
allows you to see the meaning 

1969
02:01:30,440 --> 02:01:34,440
that I saw and more. 
And and so you go back to the 

1970
02:01:34,440 --> 02:01:38,240
story of Adam and Eve, right? 
Well, Adam and Eve is telling a 

1971
02:01:38,240 --> 02:01:41,720
story about the nature of God's 
creation, that God, that that we

1972
02:01:41,720 --> 02:01:46,640
were made intentionally by God 
and, and, and then the fallen. 

1973
02:01:46,640 --> 02:01:48,840
So there's all these ancient 
stories, you know, sort of, I 

1974
02:01:49,080 --> 02:01:51,440
mean, because history really 
doesn't, you know, God's quote 

1975
02:01:51,440 --> 02:01:54,120
UN quote saving history doesn't 
really begin until Abraham. 

1976
02:01:54,120 --> 02:01:56,480
That's when, you know, the call 
of Abraham is sort of the 

1977
02:01:56,480 --> 02:01:59,600
beginning of divine history. 
And then the prehistory in a 

1978
02:01:59,600 --> 02:02:04,880
sense lays the foundation for in
a sense of why is the world the 

1979
02:02:04,880 --> 02:02:06,960
way it is? 
You know, why is it that we are 

1980
02:02:06,960 --> 02:02:09,280
all, you know, that evil exists 
and we're fundamental? 

1981
02:02:09,280 --> 02:02:12,840
Well, God created us good and we
fell into sin, right? 

1982
02:02:12,840 --> 02:02:15,800
So there's all the answers, you 
know, why do I resent my brother

1983
02:02:15,800 --> 02:02:18,480
for being successful? 
Well, we have Cain and Abel, you

1984
02:02:18,480 --> 02:02:22,400
know, why do people build cities
to reach the heavens, right? 

1985
02:02:22,400 --> 02:02:25,680
Well, we have the story of 
Babel, all of these types of, 

1986
02:02:25,920 --> 02:02:30,800
you know, and, and so these 
stories then allow us to 

1987
02:02:31,160 --> 02:02:35,160
understand and frame and give 
meaning to to the events that we

1988
02:02:35,160 --> 02:02:37,920
see. 
And so it allows us to recognize

1989
02:02:38,280 --> 02:02:42,040
God's at work out there in the 
Creator because we can see from 

1990
02:02:42,040 --> 02:02:45,000
the stories and then we go out 
into the world and now we can 

1991
02:02:45,000 --> 02:02:46,840
see the things of the story out 
in the world. 

1992
02:02:46,840 --> 02:02:49,360
And that allows us, as we were 
talking about, to live into 

1993
02:02:49,360 --> 02:02:52,360
those stories. 
Yeah. 

1994
02:02:52,560 --> 02:02:54,400
The benefits of a good 
theological education. 

1995
02:02:56,040 --> 02:02:59,920
Well, you know, I've, I'm making
up on time. 

1996
02:02:59,920 --> 02:03:04,480
I, I spent a large chunk of 
those 32 years. 

1997
02:03:05,960 --> 02:03:09,880
I hate reading the Bible and, 
and, and other religious texts. 

1998
02:03:09,880 --> 02:03:12,840
So in a weird way, I did a lot 
of study. 

1999
02:03:12,840 --> 02:03:15,160
I just did it in the wrong with 
the wrong intention. 

2000
02:03:15,160 --> 02:03:19,840
Now that I'm reversed that 
intention, I still have a lot of

2001
02:03:19,840 --> 02:03:22,920
work in front of me. 
But it's it's conversations like

2002
02:03:22,920 --> 02:03:26,560
these that help help me level up
faster. 

2003
02:03:27,520 --> 02:03:29,280
You know, even though we don't 
share the same faith, we do 

2004
02:03:29,280 --> 02:03:32,120
share the same. 
Well. 

2005
02:03:32,400 --> 02:03:34,360
We don't share the same Yeah, we
don't share the same. 

2006
02:03:34,360 --> 02:03:36,960
Sorry, We, we should say this. 
We don't share the same 

2007
02:03:37,320 --> 02:03:40,360
religion, but we we share the 
same faith and we, I think we 

2008
02:03:40,360 --> 02:03:43,440
share the same belief in mankind
and I think. 

2009
02:03:43,480 --> 02:03:45,360
Well, and I and I think too like
the difference. 

2010
02:03:45,680 --> 02:03:47,560
You know, people have asked me 
like, why don't you become 

2011
02:03:47,560 --> 02:03:48,840
Orthodox? 
And I said, well. 

2012
02:03:48,960 --> 02:03:52,160
Why don't you? 
Well, in part because I'm 

2013
02:03:52,200 --> 02:03:53,200
joking. 
Well, yeah. 

2014
02:03:53,200 --> 02:03:54,480
No, no, no, it's a good 
question. 

2015
02:03:54,520 --> 02:03:57,920
It's because I'm part of an, an,
an ethnic church community. 

2016
02:03:58,520 --> 02:04:04,000
And in a sense that for all of 
my appreciation and love of the 

2017
02:04:04,000 --> 02:04:06,160
Orthodox and even to some 
extent, even the Catholic 

2018
02:04:06,160 --> 02:04:13,000
community, that, you know, 
fundamentally my, my basic 

2019
02:04:13,360 --> 02:04:16,520
understanding of the world is 
reformed, you know, with a 

2020
02:04:16,520 --> 02:04:20,320
strong layering of, you know, 
insights from the Orthodox 

2021
02:04:20,320 --> 02:04:23,760
community. 
So I don't feel, you know, but 

2022
02:04:23,760 --> 02:04:26,000
it, it, there's certain things 
that, you know, as a good 

2023
02:04:26,000 --> 02:04:30,040
Calvinist that I struggle with. 
I, I, I understand the arguments

2024
02:04:30,040 --> 02:04:33,040
for icons. 
I get, I, I don't think that 

2025
02:04:33,040 --> 02:04:35,720
they're incorrect, but you're 
just not going to find me 

2026
02:04:35,720 --> 02:04:37,840
kissing icons. 
It's just the way you know, 

2027
02:04:37,840 --> 02:04:41,080
it's, it's just I do have AI do 
have a prayer, like a prayer, 

2028
02:04:41,880 --> 02:04:43,240
like a prayer chain and I pray 
that. 

2029
02:04:43,240 --> 02:04:45,280
Jesus prayer, I know you. 
I know you have a cross 

2030
02:04:45,280 --> 02:04:48,080
somewhere in your house. 
Wow, Yeah, it's actually right. 

2031
02:04:48,240 --> 02:04:50,440
You've seen it. 
It's right behind me in my 

2032
02:04:50,680 --> 02:04:52,680
office, Right. 
So it's right. 

2033
02:04:52,680 --> 02:04:56,320
So but it it. 
You know you're, you're you're 

2034
02:04:56,440 --> 02:04:58,040
you're, you're an icon too, 
right? 

2035
02:04:58,560 --> 02:04:59,840
There we go, made in the image 
of that. 

2036
02:04:59,840 --> 02:05:02,640
I know I just. 
But you're not going to come 

2037
02:05:02,640 --> 02:05:04,560
over and kiss me though, Jason. 
So there we go. 

2038
02:05:05,400 --> 02:05:09,760
Not not not anytime soon, but I 
mean 2025 I'm, I'm planning a 

2039
02:05:10,680 --> 02:05:13,720
hopeful North American tour. 
We'll see. 

2040
02:05:13,720 --> 02:05:17,280
We'll see how that goes. 
So if that happens, you might 

2041
02:05:17,360 --> 02:05:21,880
you puck her up. 
Baby, We're, we're due, we're 

2042
02:05:21,880 --> 02:05:25,840
due for, we're due for a beer. 
Yeah, that would that that we 

2043
02:05:25,840 --> 02:05:29,440
can do, that we can do. 
But wow, we are up over 205. 

2044
02:05:29,440 --> 02:05:30,560
Yes, Sir, this is good. 
All right. 

2045
02:05:30,560 --> 02:05:32,720
Yeah, I know. 
And gentlemen, yeah, we can. 

2046
02:05:32,720 --> 02:05:35,240
Thank you so much. 
You're very welcome to where 

2047
02:05:35,240 --> 02:05:38,120
they can get your get your work 
Kryptos before we sign up. 

2048
02:05:38,120 --> 02:05:43,080
Seekingthehiddenthing.com and at
Under score Kryptos on Twitter. 

2049
02:05:44,200 --> 02:05:46,080
We're going to play the outro. 
Thank you very much, folks. 

2050
02:05:46,440 --> 02:05:49,400
Again, send me a copy. 
The links are in the channel 

2051
02:05:49,400 --> 02:05:51,960
below. 
I'm without day jobs, so any and

2052
02:05:51,960 --> 02:05:56,720
all contributions are greatly 
appreciated and or sign up to 

2053
02:05:56,720 --> 02:06:00,400
the friend or feds membership 
support the show anyway any 

2054
02:06:00,400 --> 02:06:02,440
which way you can. 
I know times are tough for 

2055
02:06:02,440 --> 02:06:03,760
everybody. 
So even if you just like 

2056
02:06:03,760 --> 02:06:06,880
subscribe, subscribe, share, put
it out there. 

2057
02:06:07,560 --> 02:06:10,760
These conversations. 
I, I listen to a lot of shows 

2058
02:06:10,800 --> 02:06:14,880
and, you know, I always say that
some of the best conversations 

2059
02:06:14,880 --> 02:06:17,040
happen on this show. 
And that's not just, it's my 

2060
02:06:17,040 --> 02:06:19,160
show. 
I just think it's, it's true. 

2061
02:06:19,160 --> 02:06:21,480
So again, Kryptos, thank you so 
much man. 

2062
02:06:21,760 --> 02:06:23,120
Well, you're very welcome. 
It's a pleasure. 

2063
02:06:23,120 --> 02:06:25,840
I'm going to put the outro, give
me two seconds and we'll talk 

2064
02:06:26,200 --> 02:07:06,120
briefly afterwards 
The.