Hello and welcome to another episode of Casting Views, a
podcast that takes a topic each week and, as the name suggests,
Cast Views. This week I'm recording again on
one of the hottest days of the year, and what better to talk
about a subject of grown adults grappling, you know, swaying and
grappling. There's an image already then
the one and only Joey from a whole ton now of of podcasts,
right? But predominantly.
Game club, the game club pod. Just say game club pod is
easier. I think I'm glad then that I
came in my wrestling attire of tiny drinks and nothing else,
and I'm glad that you did the same well.
I was going to say I wasn't expecting you to do that, so now
I feel I've addressed you. How are you, my friend?
How are you? I'm very well, thank you.
I'm I'm actually recording this live from the 3rd circle of
hell. It's so hot, but you know, we
enjoy doing it. It's lovely to see your face.
So if any one of us going to be here is sweating with, I'm glad
it's you. I am so of course, well, you
know, more more than anyone, but obviously I've started another
podcast Gaming views. And I was doing that with a
friend of mine, Dan, also Dan and I said to him the other
night before we started recording, I said, welcome to
the life of a podcast recording on like 29° heat in a little
room with a screen and and you know, shutting everything for
the sound. And we're now doing YouTube,
right. So the video's coming out
tomorrow. Well, Tuesday you'd have seen it
last week now, but you can see by the end I'm just literally,
well, I'm getting redder and redder as the video's going on
and I'm just not wiping the swear.
That's me on a normal day. It's just a bit more today.
How is the Game Club pod going? Talk to us a little bit about
that. Yeah, Game Club Pod is good.
We are doing some really exciting things with advanced
copies of games and review copies of games you might have
seen if you subscribe to us. The DLC series has has
predominantly been reviews for for copies of games that we've
been given by developers, which is really exciting.
It's something I really wanted to do when we started the
podcast, but it's taken a few years to get there.
But it's it's really fun. It's really cool to see
developers very early iterations of their games and, and we've
had feedback from developers on our feedback on their games.
And it's just good to have that conversation with people in the
gaming industry, which I think there was a point with Game Club
Pod where we kind of deviated quite far away from gaming.
And we still have two blokes from Blighty.
We still have BAP, which there's a new one out today at time of
recording. And, and I think I've said to
you before, I I care very little for anime and cartoons for
adults, but the bat boys, I'm so pleased that they are doing what
they're doing because Pete and Sky are just wonderful.
Not that Alex and Tim aren't, they're they're all right as
well, but I speak to them quite a lot and they know how I feel
about them. We're also streaming every
Thursday on Twitch at minimum. We sometimes do more than that,
but that's fun. Game Club Pod is really good,
it's just really busy. You are extremely busy and I
know you know I keep saying to you I really do love your feed
you, Alex and and Tim, especially with some of the
newer things you'd do in like thanks.
I hate it and cutscenes really fine.
In your groove with that as well and really good.
We found that we were doing a video game every two weeks and
if you want to get into a game, two weeks often isn't enough
time to do it, especially when you're trying to do it in bulk
and, and front load the episodes.
So we would record two or three episodes that would be 6 weeks
worth of game content and then we would go in, oh, there's such
a gap between mainline episodes. And then we realised we're
calling it mainline when we have all these other things that come
out. So we split our feed into the
game club pod, which is our what we used to call our mainline
episodes. So like a review of a book club
style of a game Then we have Thanks I hate it where we try
and take one of the tropes that one of the hosts doesn't like in
games or films. So for example, Tim and Alex
both don't like jump scares. So I made them watch it Part 1
and 2 recently. And then cutscenes is all about
video game movies and trying to think of the last good one we
had maybe the first one, the Bob Hoskins Mario movie, which is so
bad. It's good.
And it just, it gives it a really nice rhythm, like you
know what's coming out. And I feel like that continuity
is always good. And then you throw in two blokes
from Blighty there, which is a bit like Chuck in a brick in a
washing machine. There's no continuity or
consistency there. It's just a bit like raw energy
put onto a podcast, which I really enjoy.
And then Dan, it's it's this. I don't know if you ever date
your episodes. It's the 16th of June today.
I had a thought. I think we're going to start
recording Podma soon. That's incredible as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was. I was actually talking to the
other Dan about Podma. So I was saying, yeah, I can't
wait for this year's. Are you not going to do it?
No, I think, well, I think we're going to do some Christmassy
episodes, OK. But yeah, I don't think we're
going to do a pod news yet. I'm sure between now and
December I've managed to rope you and Dan into some element of
Podmus. So if you want to hear gaming
views and casting views and game club pod all in one place, I'm
sure there will be an episode of Podmus for you.
Which I should explain what Podmus is for anyone.
I've I've been here a lot for a while.
It felt like I was a second host.
Dan Podmas started off as the 12 pods of Christmas.
So we released an episode every other day in December right
until Christmas Day. Then we thought, why are we only
doing 12? Let's do 24 right up to
Christmas Day. And then we did that and we
thought, why are we only doing 24?
Let's do 30 and do everyday other than Christmas Day.
So our plan now is to go one step further and do a full 31
podcast episode every single day in December.
And so you should. Which, which will be fun, but
just to set expectations. They're not they're not all like
reviews. Some of them are serious, some
of them are stupid. So we do a quiz for one of them.
We do like a blind tier list episode is is a bit of a
favorite. We did a choose your own
adventure last time. We do AD and D couple of
episodes, which Dan appeared on last year.
It's good fun. It's really good fun and it's
like it's where the variety side of me gets to, to fix a little
bit rather than just being stuck to, to our, our task, which I
love doing. But every now and then I I
listen to other podcasts and I think that's a great idea I
could RIP off. Well, no, but I get it.
And that's why, you know, I love doing on here.
I love doing the mind, the mind wipe and the dinner party
episodes, etcetera, or even getting you like you know, when
I had you and and the rest of your gang on for the origin of
phrases, because I love getting podcasters, especially ones who
are specifically in a in a niche like Justin, like the movie
wise, constantly doing movies yourself, predominantly in games
to do something different and outside of the normal, normal
thing. It's great to kind of see how
the mind works outside of the usual.
And just as a when, When does this episode go live, Dan?
This should go this Sunday. So what's that?
The 22nd. Wow, if you've not listened to
Dan H's Mind Wipe, go back a week and listen to it.
It's really really good. I'm really enjoying it.
I'm about 2/3 of the way through at time of speaking so.
Thank you for that. And that's good.
Yeah. I was really looking forward to
that because I've known him for so long and I and I see I saw on
the episode knowing him the way I do, I couldn't wait to find
out what he was going. To I really, I really liked when
he was picking things and, and I think I've listened to, I think
I've listened to every single mind what you've done.
But I feel like with the one with Dan, you just picked up and
you tend, you seem to know a lot more about the subjects he was
talking about rather than being introduced to new things.
And, and I feel like, I mean, I, you know, I like you and Dan as
a, as a duo. I think that you're great
together, but I just, I feel like the way you bounce off each
other really shows like a good Co host relationship and and
what you need for a really good podcast.
So yeah, go and listen to that if you haven't already.
No, I appreciate that. Yep, gaming views.
And yeah, check us out on YouTube because I've gone on
video, which, yeah, after after almost four years of this, yeah,
I'm showing my face. This isn't going on YouTube, is
it Dan? Because no, it's very hot.
Yeah, especially when you've just ripped your share of Hulk
Hogan style. Yeah, the rest came with it.
That's why you can't go on YouTube.
Yeah, and make sure obviously you go listen to go subscribe to
the game club pod feed to get basically so much content every
week and various content. It's honestly it's it's one of
my favorite because I love you guys.
So it's. It's it's easy to buy loads of
content that's varied when you have technically 5 hosts.
Yeah, it helps. Oh, and what I will say before
we we get on. So as long as you're still
alright for it, you'll be back next week, won't you?
I. Will.
Because I've got various. Yeah.
Well, basically that was more
just making sure everyone knew that.
Yeah. So I've got a very special
episode next week. It's episode 200.
Joey has agreed to to step in and help out and.
Yeah. And probably a bit of news about
sort of the the future of that. So yeah, make sure you you
bookmark that next week to to hear Joey again.
I mean, let's really be real here.
Bookmark it for next week. BE 1 because it's casting views
and you should anyway, but two because of Dan and his show and
the monumental achievement that is 200 episodes.
Bless you. Thank you.
Actually, I'm bookmarking it because I don't know what it is
because I've told you to come do all the work for me.
So, and I'm not joking, I'm all right.
With that, I'm all right. With that right, this is
something I've been saying to you since wrestling came onto
Netflix back in January. I was saying to you, I felt like
I wanted to do a series on wrestling.
You know, I'm not the biggest expert.
I used to love watching it, then we'll talk about it.
I hadn't seen it for many, many years.
Then wrestling's come back on and I'm like, I've regressed
2025 years and I wanted to do like a wrestling sub series.
I haven't got round to doing it. You mocked up a brilliant
picture for me. Well, you said it's not for me,
it's for my wife. But you've got a brilliant
picture of of my head on a Stone Cold Steve Austin, isn't it?
Which weirdly she's put up in a frame but not there's no
pictures of me. But yeah.
And then you you kind of put something to me which will come
until after. But firstly, what's your what's
your history with wrestling? And I don't necessarily mean you
actually being involved unless you were, which I'm I'm more
than happy to hear. I wasn't.
I used to work with someone who, I'm not going to say where I
work for for obvious reasons, but I used to work with someone
who we found out after about a year was a heel in a independent
wrestling promotion. And he used to go on as the
manager and just get beaten up every single night after work,
which was good. That wasn't me, promise.
Honestly, not me. So I used to really love
wrestling. And I can tell you the first
ever match I watched when it was aired was just after Eddie
Guerrero lost his title to John Bradshaw Layfield and he was
having a steel cage match as the rematch to to potentially get it
back. And he did a a frog splash off
the top of the cage on to Kurt Angle.
And I remember watching it and thinking, this is unreal.
This is unlike anything I've ever watched.
The crowd going mad, the people having a blatant disregard for
their safety and well-being. And then Kurt Angle comes in as
a masked man. I have no idea who these people
really are at this point. And, and he, he screws over
Eddie, but I just as well as the big sweaty blokes beating each
other up. I just remember thinking this is
like a soap opera for people who want to watch people beat each
other up. And I obviously I knew of a lot
of the people during the Attitude era.
I know that that was when it got really big.
I was like the back end of primary school when the Attitude
Era was on. So when we were in the
playground, people would go mad for it.
So we used to just beat each other up in the playground going
like, oh, I'm The Rock and I'm Steve Austin.
I'd never watched it, but I used to tell people that I had
because I thought it was cool. But I really got into it a few
years after that. So the kind of real raw side of
it that all the blood and the guts and the kind of intentional
misogyny and and all of that stuff had died down quite a lot
by the time I got into it. And then Tim, my Co host and,
and I say little brother, I can't say little brother.
He's about half a foot tall of them.
My younger sibling, Tim and I went to see WWE.
It was WWE at the time. That's kind of dating.
It was not long after the the, the the change from WWF to WWE.
We went to see it in Birmingham and we watched a Fatal Four Way,
which was John Cena, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle and The
Big Show. And it was an actual episode of
Smackdown. So like they pulled out all the
stops for it and I just was absolutely blown away by the
atmosphere. And then I kind of, I think I
was really into it for about a year, maybe a little bit longer,
but I kind of when the Royal rumbles on, I used to try and
watch the Royal Rumble because I just thought it was really good
fun, really stupid fun. And I like seeing who they
brought back, what the gimmick was this year and WrestleMania,
I used to watch it sometimes. I had about 19 different emails
so I could keep getting the free subscription for a month for the
WWE. What was it called?
The network. The network and then when they
brought it to Netflix, it's like, well, I have Netflix.
This is interesting, it's fresh and people are talking about it.
Why would you not want to to follow up on it now?
I know that you now watch it a fair amount.
Now it's on Netflix and you're going and doing back catalogues,
which I think is an incredible thing.
I will watch the the pay per views, but I'm I think it's just
missing something at the moment. I feel like they're missing that
drama and the story element. I feel like the the wrestling
itself is technically much, much better.
The kind of stuff that's over the top is more over the top.
But the thing that they're missing to me is the characters.
So I think when they get that back in, I might, I might get
pulled back into it a bit more. But until they do that, I'm I'm
just going to stick to the headline, the headline stuff.
So John Cena and Cody Rhodes I think is a really interesting 1.
I don't, I can't talk too much about the recent one because I
don't want to do spoilers, but the latest pay-per-view headline
with John Cena, Cody Rhodes, the ending to that I think was
great, was really, really good. That's an example of a really
good character development, and I'm loving John Cena's heel
turn. I think, yeah.
And we'll talk about that in a little bit with with what we're
going to talk about later. But I just, I feel like at the
moment they are finding their feet on a new network and I
think it will be really good, but it needs to get good before
it gets stale. Yeah.
So yeah, that's kind of where I am with wrestling.
Yeah, I, it's funny, very similar thing right back to what
you said is I worked at a place where I subsequently found out
that a guy there worked in an independent wrestling thing.
And I'm sure he was like the evil manager as well.
So I'm wondering, where did you work?
But also there, there was this, there was this woman that worked
there. You know, really when I say some
what I mean in terms of statue, you know, sight, you know, very
petite, very quiet, very mean. Turned out she was like a star
wrestler on this circuit as well.
So but yeah, I I was probably very similar.
I was school age. I think I was looking it up
early because there were so many eras, isn't there?
So I think I joined well, started watching it at the end
of what they called the golden era, so early 90s.
So basically Hulk Hogan, Macho Man and The Ultimate Warrior.
I remember being obsessed with The Ultimate Warrior as a kid so
much I remember having a a Commodore Amigo and buying AWWWF
game. You just had three wrestlers.
I think it was Hulk Hogan, The Ultimate Warrior, and I think
Brutus A Barber beat. No British bulldog?
British. Bulldog that you didn't know off
the top of your head, but you knew The Ultimate Warrior was
when I said it. Yeah, yeah, Just see these weird
digitised run out, you know, rope shake was incredible.
I think I then watched it pretty much to 2000s, early 2000s
'cause I moved out 2001 didn't have Sky then, which is where it
was predominantly on. So I think I fell out of it
around the mid 2000s. Yeah, I mean that that was kind
of like my era, like getting those wrestling games with is
it? Here Comes the Pain with The
Rock. That had The Rock on it, didn't
it? Just just bring it was the one
with the. Rock.
Oh sorry, the pain. I think had.
Brock, yeah, Brock Lesnar and those early WWE games, so I
remember, were brilliant. Loved them.
It's funny you say, when you fell out of it because you
didn't have Sky. So we did did have Sky.
We were very lucky to have Sky and we had one of them that you
could record it. So I used to record it and I
think I must have got into it when you were getting out of it
because when they brought it, we would record it live and then
watch it the next day. So yeah.
Yeah, it sounds. It sounds about right.
And you know, I've been to see a fair few things.
So I saw early on many years ago with my nephew, we went to when
a local one came to our town, bearing in mind that, you know,
our town isn't like, you know, it's not a Manchester or, or a
Birmingham or anything like that.
And so I remember they, they advertised in joke the snake
there. So that was like, Oh my God,
that's my childhood memory right there.
And this was I think pre his total rehabilitation.
So it was quite sad to see that. Yeah.
Have you ever watched the, I think it's called Beyond the Mat
is the documentary. And they don't talk about Jake
the Snake there, but they go really in depth in a lot of the
the wrestlers and a lot of them are really quite sad.
Well, I think there actually is a documentary on, I think
because is it Diamond Dallas Page who's doing like, I think
it does like a a rehab for wrestlers.
No, I don't. Know and I think there is a
documentary called the rehabilitation of Jake Snake and
it is an incredible story to watch.
But the thing that stuck out about that one was there was
this there was this women's match and there was a clear
heel. So I was trying to, you know,
sort of get in the mood and I was like booing her and she sort
of came up to me and just sort of like started shouting in my
face, you know, as the heel. And like when every other time
just creased up with laughter, you know, because he was he was
little kid. We we saw a raw show in London.
Then there was another one like an independent sort of event
came to again next town over. That was really cool to watch.
And that for me was when you know, and and you know, that
whole debate about, oh, it's not real.
Yeah, absolutely. Everybody knows it's not real.
But when you watch them, the ones who are really good at
their craft, it's, it's almost like it is, it is like a dance,
isn't it? It's like it's just incredible
when you see them in full flow. It is.
And and so there's a do you remember the wrestler Maven?
He might have been a so so Maven has a really good YouTube
channel where he gets loads of people like Devon Dudley was on
there quite a few times and he gets all of these these other
wrestlers on there and they actually really push back on the
it's not real thing because the bumps that they take are like
real. They say it's not.
It is real, but it is. Scripted, yeah you know, and to
to want to sound like a total fanboy, but it is and and and
this is the thing and we did see it me and my wife when we were
in Florida years ago. We saw AT and a show because
they they they let you in for free then where I'm at now.
Yeah, it's it's come back on Netflix.
I've watched Oh yeah, I've been watching Wrestlemanias.
So I started at one. I'm I think I'm on 34 now.
OK, nice. And that's important why I say
that for, for something we're doing after, and I've been
saying to you, haven't I, that I enjoy watching it because it's
something there's a link to kind of like my childhood.
And there is, I think you said it.
They probably haven't been as good as they have been for a
long time in terms of their athleticism and what they're
doing. But there is something missing
and it is those absolutely out this world storylines.
Now there are some that should never see the light of day
again. And I'm not saying that, but now
all it is is wrestler A bumps into wrestler B at the
backstage. They threaten each other.
They stare at each other, you know, AA male, etcetera.
Or, or again with the women, they'll be a group of them and
they'll they'll just have a go at each other.
Then they wrestle in the ring. There's no like soap opera.
You said it, no soap opera storylines.
It's not as bonkers as it used to be.
And more so now, I think we've got to expect it now in this day
and age. But I was hoping with the
Netflix still they wouldn't have to but the the creeping in of
all the advertising now. Oh, yes, yeah, we've, we had
just had money in the bank and you pointed out to me that money
in the bank, the ladders are now sponsored and it's just, it
really put me off watching it. Well, I think the money in the
bank case has got Cash App, an ad for cash app on it.
The tables are now Slim Jim tables.
Well, it's not got to the point where the wrestlers say, well,
it did with the ladder. It's not like the guy's gone
through the Slim Jim table. But they did.
They did the. Commentators are doing it now,
yeah. Are they?
They did say these climbing the Fireball whiskey ladder.
You just think come. On I think the commentator is
now saying when somebody gets put through a table, it's snap
into a Slim Jim or something like that.
And then you add up all the advertising on the mat, which I
haven't got a problem with because you know, you see in
boxing. But it's just this whole.
It's like what's happened to my beautiful puppy, the.
Thing is, I think I think that takes away from is it doesn't
look like, and I know it never was because it's obviously they
have to have some level of control.
But before the stuff that they used to bring to the ring, the
weapons and stuff looked like they went to a Home Depot and
they just thought we'll have that, that, that, that and that.
And now it looks all very predetermined, which it
obviously is, but it's it's kind of really not going out of the
way to hide that it's predetermined now, so.
Yeah, and, and again, sorry, as you said, I don't necessarily
have an issue with that as long as they put on a good show,
which generally they do. Yeah, you know, and it is funny
to see because my wife, well, I won't say she watches it, but
she has to because I'm watching it.
And it is funny how you see over time.
So back in like the 80s, they were just huge, huge chunks of,
of, of human, right. Then it got like in the
attitude. They were big, but a lot more
defined. Weren't they like tone?
And now they are sort of one of the quote normal people.
They're not necessarily these mega monsters.
I mean, they're still pretty jacked.
Yeah, they're not. They're not.
Well, I think you can see now it's because Vince McMahon isn't
in control of it. And Vince McMahon had a real
like obsession with bodybuilders, which is why you
had people like Dave Batista, Triple H to an extent, Brock
Lesnar, these people who are just, like you said, slabs of
meat rather than humans. And I mean, I know that they
deny it to the hills, but you can see from that steroid
lawsuit that went against WWE, the body shape changed from
there. But now that it's Triple H and a
different team in charge of WWE that the body shape changed
again. And I think it is purely down to
the person in charge and what they like to see in the ring,
which I think is really interesting in itself.
Yeah, it's it is an evolution. And it's funny as well because I
said to you, my wife, she's not necessarily sitting there
watching it, but she'll be in the room and hearing it.
And the other day, like she was, she was out the room.
She was in, in one of the bedrooms and the Cody Rhodes
theme came on and she sang the whoa, be at the right time.
I could hear her from the hallway because she she you
know, she's going whoa. And, and the what was it?
The other funny thing was like we were watching, there's a new
programme on Apple, Jon Hamm. She thought that was CM Punk at
first. That's it.
Because I've been watching so much wrestling.
That's funny. That's really good.
Dan, I have to ask of the old and the new eras, who's your
favorite if you had to choose one from history and one now?
Right, let's do. I think if I was to do history,
it would either be would either be The Ultimate Warrior and you
know, whether he was a great, great wrestler or not, That's
the one I remember as a kid and just being fascinated with.
He'd be close between him or the Macho Man.
Now it's a weird one because I haven't, I've only really seen
him since I've I've got it back now, but I kind of like, and I
know you do as well, but I kind of like Don Mysterio.
Oh. Yeah.
But just how he loves the hate he kind of gets, he's embracing
that. So when I first got into
wrestling, when Tim and I went to see it, Dominic Mysterio was,
and it's the same kid. He's just grown up with it.
His whole life he was the centre of a feud between Rey Mysterio
and Eddie Guerrero of who who his real father is.
And it's so weird because he was genuinely like 7, probably 7
years old when we were watching it.
And they were like fighting over custody of a 7 year old, which
leads into the it's not as bonkers as it used to be, but to
now see him like in WWE as a champion and, and really good
is, is really cool to say. I feel like he's grown up with
the product and he's he's just encapsulates what's still good
about it. And it's great that he's
wrestling at the same time as his father as well, like father
and son. I mean, you, you mentioned Eddie
Guerrero. He was another 1.
I think he because he came much later.
You know, I I'm going back to my childhood, but Eddie Guerrero
was fantastic as well. Well, he, he's my all time
favorite, right? OK, I think because like I said,
the first ever time I watched it, I saw him do a frog splash
from the top of the cage and that kind of just sticks with
you. And, and I just used to love the
lie, cheat and steal. I used to love the comedy
element that he brought to it, but I also really like the
horror characters they had. So I mean, Kane was an obvious
1. He used to come out in a in a
bit of a like a wall of fire. They used to have a guy called
the Boogeyman, who I don't know if you.
Remember him? He was a weird, weird horror
character. I quite liked him but he just
used to eat worms on the top of the stage and smash the clock on
his head. I didn't really get it, but he
creeped me out. And then the other main horror
character is one that we're going to talk about today if you
want to introduce the concept of what we're doing.
And then I'll take you through the matches, so.
Before we do, before we do, there was something I did want
to ask you before we kind of went into that.
So you said that Eddie Guerrero, who's is there a current
favorite? If I had to choose one that he's
injured at the moment, but I really like Kevin Owens.
I think Kevin Owens is brilliant and it's because he's like a,
well, he's not like a normal bloke.
He's somebody very willingly going to be thrown off of a 15
foot table onto a ladder. But he he looks like a normal
bloke and he is, he's a bit like the reincarnation of Stone Cold
crossed with mankind, which I think is a little bit after my
time and when I started it. But they were like really
compelling and charismatic characters.
But I've always liked the heel, generally.
I always like the bad guy. They're more fun, aren't they?
More fun, but Randy Orton is always another good one.
I've always liked Randy Orton, but he's just a bit of a nut
job. So yeah, he's good.
One of the special mention for me because he's not some people
listen, he's not who who aren't familiar.
He's not a full time wrestler, but Shane McMahon.
Yeah. Just because he loves and this
is to go back to what you're saying that it is real in terms
of what they're doing. He for not being a regular
wrestler, used to he put himself through some crazy stuff, didn't
he? And just do you want to talk
about the? Ring just watched King of the
Ring 2002 the match with Kurt Angle.
He there's a spot in it where they're doing a belly to belly
suplex through a window and one of the ring crew that was meant
to set up Sugar glass messed up basically.
And they put real glass in there in in both of the windows he was
meant to go through. So Kurt Angle throws him against
this window and he just bounces off and lands on the concrete on
his head. And this is in that beyond the
mat documentary and Kurt Angle saying he's like totally
concussed. He needs to be dragged back to
the ring on on a, an equipment trolley because they can't move
him. But when he does it the first
time, he's like, Oh my God, are you OK?
And he just goes throw me again and he does it again and he
bounces off and he goes throw me again.
And he goes through the second time.
And the idea was that they threw him back the same way from
backstage to the front of the stage.
And he does it and he bounces off and he's just like throw me
again. And he just, he's absolutely
mad. But he just wants to put on a
really good show. And I have a little feeling that
it might be because of his quite warped relationship with his
dad, who ran the company. But, you know, I think Shane
McMahon was always interesting. I feel like when he was in the
ring, you always knew something big was going to happen.
My my memory and I saw it recently is WrestleMania 31,
maybe 30, but where he jumps off the top of the cell.
So what's that like 30 feet? Is he or something?
It's. Something like that, yeah.
Onto a table and. Have you seen the one?
There was a backlash, I think it was 2003 maybe.
And he climbs the set and he goes all the way up the top and
it must be like 40 foot high. And he just dives onto someone
onto on the tables below. And you just think you're,
you're taking years off your life doing that if it goes
wrong. As someone who's blown his back
out doing, I won't even call it gardening, who blew a disc?
No, I blew a disc doing not even gardening.
The line between injury and pulling the move off has got to
be so fine. But you know, I've got one more
thing to ask you before we go on to you.
You explain what you wanted to to do if you were a wrestler.
What would your name be and what would your finishing move be?
So whenever I used to play the the just Bring it and Smatner
versus Royal, I always used to make the same character and I
don't know why. I used to think it was really
cool to call him Nightshade. That was my my character at the
time I was going to do. Now I would be, I'd have to
think of something to come up with GCP, wouldn't I?
So I could advertise the podcast at the same time.
But let me think about that one. Dan, my finisher, I really like
a stunner. I like a stunner at the rock
bottom. But if you want something big
and flashy, Rob Van Dam's Five Star Frog splash.
Like the the height you get on that.
And if it was me, you'd be dead. So it would be that one.
OK, so the the GCP with with Rob Van Dam's.
Yeah, what about you though? I thought about this too much,
so I would be my wrestling name would be the couch potato.
OK. And my finishing move would be
the snack attack. And what that is, is, you know,
when they put like tacks on the canvas, you know, like the
thumbnails, I would open a bag of crisps, but it'd be like the
proper thick ridged ones like Mccoys, you know, because
they're going to do the damage. And then I would sprinkle that
and then I would power bomb them onto the onto the Mccoys.
I like it. That's really good.
Yeah, so the snack attack, you see, I've I'm there, right?
So Joey, what did you want us to do tonight?
So I think when you listen to anything wrestling, they talk
about the the show or the PPV pay-per-view or a specific
character, but it's very rare that you hear like a focus on a
single match and storyline. So I thought it'd be fun to take
you through WrestleMania 36's Firefly Funhouse match.
Have you heard of this? Do you know what it is?
I think, I think I know what it is.
I think I've seen a clip, but I've never seen the event
itself. Great.
So it's really important to know that the 55 Funhouse match took
place during lockdown and during COVID where they couldn't have
fans in the stadium. So WrestleMania 36 was a really
weird one because it was performed to an empty room and
the Firefly Funhouse match was one of the very few pre recorded
matches that WWE has done. And it was between The Fiend and
John Cena, who actually had a WrestleMania match.
I think it was six years before as Bray Wyatt versus John Cena.
So when I was talking about my favorite horror characters, The
Fiend is is one of them. You've seen the Fiend's mask,
haven't you? It's like it's a bit of a
hellish thing where it's like, it's a bit like Leatherface from
Texas Chainsaw Massacre, but the skin has been stretched back.
It's really quite grotesque to look at.
And he used to walk around with a hanging Lantern, which was an
homage to Bray Wyatt, his previous character.
But the Lantern used to be looked like it was Bray Wyatt's
severed head with a light in the inside.
It was in an in an era where wrestling was trying to be
really PG, I was amazed that the Fiend was was allowed on their
network. So the Fiend versus John Cena,
and it was meant to be like a bit of a deep dive into the
failures and fears of John Cena. But I'm not going to spoil too
much. We're going to watch the match
itself, but I am going to give you a little breakdown of who
the Fiend is. We all know who John Cena is.
He has been the face of WWE for like 15 years.
He is, everyone's still talking about it because of this big
heel term. But The Fiend is someone who we
won't ever see again because Bray Wyatt passed away a few
years ago. So his real name is Wyndham
Lawrence of Thunder, and he's wrestled under the name Husky
Harris, Bray Wire and The Fiend. And he debuted as The Fiend in
2019 on Raw. So he had quite a good run and
he held the Universal Championship twice, beating Seth
Rollins and Braun Strowman for those titles.
He came about with the idea that Bray Wyatt would still be a
character within WWE. So Bray Wyatt was really
inspired by Mankind and Mick Foley and Cactus Jack.
There was a Royal Rumble where Mick Foley came out three times.
If you've ever seen that, he appeared once as Dude Love, once
as Cactus Jack and once as Mankind.
And he really liked that kind of dual role within WWE.
So in a kind of Pee Wee Herman, Pee Wee's Funhouse style thing,
they made a thing called the Firefly Funhouse.
And they had all of these pre recorded bits where it was meant
to be a bit like it's addressed to kids.
And they had all these regular characters.
Like there was Sister Abigail who was like meant to be Bray
Wyatt's thing from his, his previous gimmick.
There's a pig like puppets, there's a pig.
There was all of these other characters and he used to talk
about them and they used to get darker and darker and darker as
they went. So it started off quite cutesy.
And then eventually they they they introduced the Fiend and
the Fiend was there as like the nightmare that they were all
scared of. And John Cena being the beacon
of light for the WWE and having all this previous with Bray
Wyatt, which I think was like semi serious Bray Wyatt always
felt that John Cena was holding back new talent from emerging
within the WWE because he had to be there.
So that fuelled quite a lot of a lot of the the realness between
John Cena and Bray Wyatt. So as as I said, this match is
pre recorded, I'll tell you more about it afterwards.
Stan, I really want to know what you think about it.
All right, And you will hear what I think about it and which
I thinks about it after this break.
Welcome to Chat Tsunami, A variety podcast that discusses
topics from gaming and films to anime in general interests.
Previously on Chat Tsunami, we've analyzed what makes a good
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Brosnan's runs, James Bond, and listen to us take deep dives
into both the Sonic and Halo franchises.
Also, if you're an anime fan, but don't forget to check us out
on our sub series Chatsunani where we dive into the world of
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series. If that sounds like your cup of
tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes and all big
podcast apps. As always, stay safe.
Stay awesome and most importantly, stay hydrated.
Right, so we are back and I literally don't know what I've
just seen. Do you do you want to set the
scene for what it was? Yeah, sure.
So 55 funhouse match, like I said, it was a pre recorded
match. There was originally a a live
match prepared with a story of what was going to happen.
I don't think they've said anywhere what what was going to
happen. But when locked down here and
they said no, no audience in attendance.
Bray Wyatt said, got on the phone, Vince McMahon, I want to,
I've come up with this idea and it's a deep dive into the
history of John Cena. And I want to expose his fears,
his failures. And Vince was a bit like, oh,
I'm not sure about this. And they got John on the phone,
said John Cena, we've got this idea.
And he said, that sounds wicked, let's give it a go.
And what you saw, Dan, was a step by step of all of the
things that John Cena was genuinely worried about in his
career in WWE. Played out at rest WW ES
headquarters in one of the warehouses where they keep all
of the old stuff. So you might have seen like the
classic Smackdown fist that used to be above all of the sides.
The classic cages that used to be in the old style before they
were like chicken wire. The Saturday night main event
banners that they used to play loads of WCW stuff.
But what it was was and what we'll kind of go through it in
just a second, John Cena's entrance and then inevitable
exit from WWE start to finish in a 15 minute package played out
in a semi comedic, semi horror way.
My question for you, Dan, is did you enjoy it?
I did. I did strangely because I say
strangely because there wasn't a match as such.
There was no very little to no wrestling.
And when I was watching that, I was thinking it's quite a bold
decision for them to have done because to have in this was in
WrestleMania, right? So in WrestleMania to have a
what, a 15 minute segment where there's no match and it's a it's
an extended promo. I guess it is like a soap opera
or or a mini film. Yeah, well, this this was the
penultimate match of WrestleMania 36.
This was done right before Drew McIntyre versus Brock Lesnar for
the WWE Championship, So it got really high billing.
There's a few things in there, like put depicting Vince McMahon
as a puppet devil and loads of stuff about.
So did you notice when Bray Wyatt was Eric Bischoff?
And did you, did you understand the connection there of why they
went to? I didn't.
Get that? No.
No, OK, so I'll explain it. Basically we'll go from the
start. John Cena goes to the 55 Fun
House, which I I explained is a bit like Pee Wee, Pee Wee's
Playhouse. And it's just a set with a door
that says abandoned Hope all ye who exit here.
Obviously a play on the old phrase.
John Cena goes through there and he's in a pitch black room with
this Vince McMahon puppet and he says have you got the ruthless
aggression? We need ruthless aggression,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And John Cena's debut onto
mainline WWE was an open challenge from Kurt Angle where
he said what have you got to defeat me and John, the only
thing John Cena said was ruthless aggression.
And his character at that stage was really bland, really stale.
But he had this ruthless aggression thing that Vince
really wanted. They quickly realized that
ruthless aggression was not enough of a character thing for
John Cena. So he almost got fired because
he didn't have anything else that made him stand out, which
is why Bray Wyatt kept saying you nearly got fired.
Then we went to a very strange segment that looked like
Saturday. It was Saturday night's main
event and John Cena was just pumping weights really quickly.
And I said that. Was really weird.
It was really weird, but whilst John Cena was starting out on
WWE, he wanted to be a bodybuilder and he blew one of
his Peck muscles. And if you notice during that
segment when he's pumping the weights, he he injuries himself
so he drops him and he can't move his arm.
So he couldn't hear anyone, which was something that that
genuinely happened. So we've had a fear of being
fired from the thing he was working from because they showed
all of these clips of him as a kid holding up belts, a fear of
him failing as the bodybuilder because he failed in that
because he got the injury and couldn't carry on.
We then went to the doctor of Thugonomics where John Taylor
really hit it off and that came about because he was messing
about outside one of the tour buses and Stephanie McMahon
heard him and said we've got we like this is what you're
thinking being and it saved his career.
We had a bit of a speech and, and I don't know if you picked
up on it, John Cena basically delivered a a John Cena rap,
which isn't very good, but it was basically a verbal attack on
Bray Wyatt. And he gave this speech to
basically say you think you're clever, you're actually a bully.
All you do is take. And if you listen to John Cena's
turning heel speech, he takes elements of what Bray Wyatt said
and puts them into his turning heel speech.
So he's obviously still thinks about that, that kind of thing.
He fails as the rap artist because he can't beat him with
the words. So that's another fear of
failure because John Cena recorded a rap album.
It was not very good, but another failure of his.
We then go to WCW and Eric Bischoff, sorry, Bray Wyatt
playing Eric Bischoff. And, and the thing I really
liked about this is they took the old footage and they
recreated it with the choreography so that they cut it
between the actual footage and and the new footage.
And it was Eric Bischoff introducing Hulk Hogan on to
WCW, which was one of the biggest heel turns we've ever
seen on WWE or WWF at the time, because he was what Bray White
described as the golden goose was, was Hulk Hogan.
And then he goes to their biggest rivals.
He's got the NWO world heavyweight belt, which really
happened. And that was seen as fear of
turning heel and not wanting to tarnish his legacy the same way
that Hulk Hogan does now. Ironically, he's he's sort of
doesn't at any because it's good for what WWE needs.
But I thought it was a really, really clever piece in there.
We then talk about his match six years ago with Bray Wyatt where
Bray that it was it was a really you must have seen that in your
watch throughs of of Wrestlemanias because it was
WrestleMania of 30. It's a really good match And and
I think it's because Wyatt and Cena bounce off each other
really well, but he presents him with a chair and he's saying
finish me, John, finish me. You can hear it over this really
loud crowd. Finish me, John.
And that's another thing we're Cena didn't do it.
He didn't want to turn heel. And this time you have all the
voices say finish me John, change your decision, make the
right choice and he swings the chair.
Bray Wyatt disappears so he doesn't have the chance to what
they say right that wrong. And that's when we get him
punching Bray Wyatt and all of John Cena's biggest losses
flashing up on the screen. So he's beating him up and he's
letting go like he's not letting go.
He's he's seeing all of these failures all at once.
And there was something about a fear that he destroyed one of
the upcoming biggest groups, which was the Nexus, which I
can't remember his name, the one who's on commentary now, the
British guy. Oh.
Wade Barrett. Wade Barrett.
Wade Barrett came to on the Nexus, CM Punk on the Nexus, and
John Cena had a feud with them and it basically ruined them.
Now the pig that he's punching was wearing a Nexus uniform.
And at the end of that, The Fiend appears.
He's kind of shown all of the terrible things that John does,
all his failures, and then he gets in with a mandible claw and
a Sister Abigail and pins him 123.
Now what I thought was really cool about that, in keeping with
the horror theme, the mandible claw was the way that he pinned
him. But it looked like a Hollywood
murder scene. It looked like the Fiend was a
killer killing John Cena off, and it played a clip of a promo
John Cena cut a few weeks ago. That said, I'm doing this match
to get rid of the most over hyped, overvalued, over
appreciated superstar in the WWE.
And when it said that it clicked and John Cena disappeared and
that was it. And it did.
The classic line of the Fiend let me in and it was meant to be
the big push of the fiend. Now, unfortunately, I think he
died not long after that match, but I just, I chose that match,
Dan, because it's mad and people.
So Vince McMahon loved it. John Cena describes it as one of
his favorite matches he's ever had because they basically went
to the warehouse and went, what can we do with this?
And he wrote all, they wrote all of it themselves, the two of
them. People hated this when it came
out, like they really hated it. You might have seen in the top
corner there was a #Firefly funhouse match.
It was trending over WWE, over WrestleMania 36 hashtags because
people really, really hated it. They thought it was stupid.
But I think more has gone on in the more reflection and the more
analysis that people have put into it.
People see how clever that is. And the other pre recorded
matches that we've had that can only think of two off the top of
my head, and that's AJ Styles versus The Undertaker.
And Matt Hardy did one with someone that I can't remember,
but they were both wrestling matches.
So we've never had something like this before or since.
That is basically, like you said, a 15 minute promo in the
middle of the biggest pay-per-view of the year in the
penultimate spot. So like the headline act.
And I just thought it was really interesting.
I knew you hadn't watched it. The Fiend, I think is a really
interesting character because he's a villain and villains are
really fun and have really interesting motives.
And I really wanted to be there when you watched it.
And I was really glad watching your reaction because there was
a lot of laughing, there was a lot of shaking of the head,
there was a lot of confused faces.
But. There was a lot of silence when
I was just taking it in. I mean, it's interesting what
you say. I can see.
So I enjoyed it. I could see why people didn't
because it is very, very different, very out there.
I think it worked because it was during COVID.
So I think the first thing I said to you, it's odd to see no
crowd in that arena as well. And so I think that lends to it.
But I can imagine, I mean, I can't.
I don't know what the scenery was the wrestling scene was at
the time it happened. But I've said we've lost that
kind of theatrical element to the wrestling, so there's that.
Do you think as maybe some casual ones, do you think maybe
some of it was that they couldn't necessarily get the
references? Potentially, I think.
Because sorry. Because when you've explained
it, sorry, the way you've explained it, you know, it's
actually a very clever piece of television.
But yeah, was it appreciated because people didn't get it?
The, the way that I think wrestle WWE viewers peak are at
two places and that's the Royal Rumble in WrestleMania.
I think you get a lot of people who will not watch it any other
time watching these paper views live as well.
I think that you're, you're right.
I think it did take a bit of reflection to see how, how good
this was, but I just, I, I think people were maybe expecting a, a
wrestling match and that's not what what you got here.
Now, the The Fiend had other surreal matches that he did in
person. There's another WrestleMania
appearance where he fights Randy Orton and it's it's not very
good at all because the way that he exposes his fears is things
like they project giant cockroaches onto the mat and
round the auto runs away scared from him.
But as someone on telly, you can see that he's obviously CGI and
someone in the arena would go, why is he looking like he's
really scared? But absolutely not.
I just, I think it really lent itself to what Bray Wyatt was
interested in and what John Cena wanted to do, which was
something different to what he'd been doing before.
And Bray Wyatt wanted to do something that was creative and
horror themed because that's what he really enjoyed.
And they just kind of let them have the reins with it.
And it ended up with something that I think is probably my
favorite wrestling match of all time and wrestling matches in
big quotes there. Yeah, it is.
No, it is really good. Why they did it because you've
got that real childlike program that like a primary school
program, you know, bright colours and over the top
theatrics to the kind of the the horror movie tropes like the
white noise sound almost like the cutting with the the film
images. It's very well done.
I mean, fair play to the two of them for doing it.
I mean, especially someone like John Cena for for wanting to do
that. It felt to me also watching it
like in the wrestling games, modern ones, like a showcase
mode, you know, So I felt that was very relatable.
But also, you know, watching that and as we said, it's, you
know, it's such a shame that he passed.
But for me, because I'd only known Bray Wyatt as Bray Wyatt,
how different he looked. Yeah.
And that just shows how good he was at the characters.
When, When he was like, clean, yeah.
Yeah, well, yeah, but it's also how good he was at that
character because I've only seen him a few times, but he really
seemed to live that Bray Wyatt character.
But I think Bray Wyatt was what was good about old WWE.
Like when they did the entrance, people used to put their phones
on and they used to call it the Fireflies.
He used to call his followers the Fireflies.
And their music would come on and the whole arena would look
amazing. And you saw the clips in that
where he was saying, like you said, John Cena, that you would
listen to the people. Why didn't you listen to them on
that day? And he used to get the crowd
singing. He's got the whole world in his
hands. And it's all these like creepy,
culty, like middle America. I don't want to say Deliverance
vibes because that's a different think entirely, but but it's
that kind of fear of I don't know how you say rednecks PC
now, but you know what I mean? It's that kind of fear.
And it brought a real something really genuinely creepy, eerie
and scary to it. And I think when what the
problem is there is I think people see it as a gimmick and
gimmicks don't last in WWE unless they're like really good
gimmicks. So I don't know that we'll ever
see someone as good at that at that again as Bray Wyatt.
But I said to you during the recording there, if ever you
want something fun for like half an hour, just search the Firefly
Funhouse clips because there's compilations of them all on
YouTube and they are brilliant. No, I will do.
And I think and again, thank you for showing this way.
I mean, what what I do wonder is had I been a viewer at the time
watching it, what the reaction would have been as well.
Because like I said to fair play to the two of them, fair play
for WWE for doing it. I think also the issue is we
subsequently, I don't think have seen anything like that again,
have we? And you know, go back to
whatever we were saying 40 minutes ago, this is what I
miss. You know, I'm not necessarily
saying it's got to be a 20 minute segment like that.
And, and to, like you said, to put it in the the biggest
pay-per-view of the year and, and how weirdly it just ended
and they kind of just moved on to the the next match then it
seemed. Like the next match was Drew
McIntyre versus Brock Lesnar, so it's right back to the two giant
slabs of meat smacking each other about.
But you saw like the commentator at the end of it.
I think we we both thought it was really funny when he popped
in and he just stood there, lots of words and he was like, I
don't. Know how it was for the 1st 5
minutes as well? Yeah.
No, no, that's that's incredible.
I think, like I said, I think maybe it's a bit nostalgia.
I don't know. But like I said, I think I'm
missing the storytelling element.
I mean, could you imagine some of the modern ones now doing
something like that? I can't.
Maybe, like I said, maybe Kevin Owens, because they were, they
were trying to do something with him and Sami Zayn doing
something a bit more when they like him going to the house,
spying on him may be there. But yeah, I I think more of
this. I want this.
This is what I want. But you don't want it all to be
this, you want to be interspersed with the the kind
of more serious stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.
Oh, that was that was interesting.
Thank you for that. You're very welcome, I think
other people should suggest to you their favorite matches and
the builder too and why they sticks to them so much, and you
should make an entire series of this down.
Well, I do want to do as I said, I do want to do grappling views.
Grappling views. OK.
I think that's the name. Grappling views.
Yeah. So if you're listening to this,
yeah, do do sort of contact myself and Joey over social
media. Let's know what you thought of
the Firefly Funhouse, right? That's right, yeah.
And yeah, what your your favorite ones are.
So, Joey, as always, thank you. My pleasure, my pleasure as
always to have. It's not a long way anyway,
because you're back next week. Before you go, do you just want
to plug you and your friends again?
Yeah, just search Game Club pods in any good podcast provider.
We're on YouTube now as well, which has been a long time
coming. But Spotify, good pods, Apple
Podcasts, all the places that you get your podcasts, we are
there. You can also find us on Twitch
every Thursday playing different games and that's once again at
Game Club Pod. But listen to Talking Smack
because they also come out on a Wednesday with their two blokes
and and I listen to them before I listen to us.
And Josh is lovely. And Josh is lovely.
Yeah, so go subscribe to Game Club Pod, go subscribe to
Talking Smack, go subscribe to Gaming Views.
Oh, and also before you go, I need to because I always keep
forgetting, thank you as well for your thumbnail as you do for
me as well. Because yeah, you'll see outside
of the Mind Wipe and Dinner Party episodes, pretty much all
the thumbnails you're going to have seen in the last few months
anyway will have been all Joey. So thank you again for that.
I've got more photos of you on my computer than I have anyone
else stands, and that's once again my pleasure.
That's not worrying, is it? I can't wait to see what you do
for this one. So, yeah, stay tuned for that.
All right, look, thank you very much.
We'll see you next week for another episode of Casting
Views. If I want your opinion, I will
give it to you.