1 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:11,880 Dan and Dan with the gaming flair Pixel Dreams and Worlds to 2 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,760 share. Joystick tales and button cues. 3 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,280 Welcome to gaming views. Level up. 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:23,800 We're on the go, now we're up. Silly audio flow from the Rachel 5 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:29,960 to the new reviews. It's a life of game. 6 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:35,880 Games with gaming views. Welcome to episode 2 of Gaming 7 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,320 Views. And I'm laughing because as of 8 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,480 when we do release video, Dan, we've still got to do that 9 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:43,040 dancing we were doing to that injury. 10 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:47,720 I genuinely love that, thank you so much every time. 11 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,280 It was funny because when we recorded the pilot, I just stuck 12 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,800 in my casting views intro, didn't I? 13 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:56,480 And then I, I messaged you. I think it might have even been 14 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,080 that same night. I said, Dan, I've got us an 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:00:59,160 intro. I've got us an intro. 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,640 It was. Yeah, and, and how much better 17 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:04,280 of that. People talk about the demons of 18 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,600 AI. But Dan, there are good things 19 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:07,320 for it. I'll tell you. 20 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:10,480 Number one, it'll be #1 in the charts. 21 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,200 Then how are you doing? I'm good. 22 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,560 I'm very good, thankfully. Yeah, I've had a break from 23 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,520 work, so which has been very nice and spent an inordinate 24 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,800 amount of that, even though I was away still gaming, thanks to 25 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,480 those lovely inventions of the the little handheld pads, the 26 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,560 little backbone. So that helped me massively. 27 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,360 So, yeah. But I've, I've been really good. 28 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,240 And now you know, he gives it cracking on Episode 2. 29 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:37,880 You know that difficult second album. 30 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,320 And see how we go. Nice, nice. 31 00:01:41,320 --> 00:01:44,120 Yeah, It's been a while since we recorded, but I, I think partly 32 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,440 because I've, I've been on holiday, you've been on holiday 33 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,400 and partly I've had, well, I'm not going to call it the flu, 34 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,000 it's not been the flu, but I've just been. 35 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:52,480 Really. Grotty. 36 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,480 Yeah, I've been so grotty this last week, but I want to record 37 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,640 and as you said, Episode 2, the difficult return. 38 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,840 We've had a lot of conversations though, since last episode, how 39 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:04,680 we want to take it. So we're going to settle into 40 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,280 kind of like a groove of, I think we're going to talk about 41 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,520 what we've been playing since previous one, then a talking 42 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,680 point and and what we're looking forward to. 43 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,720 So yeah, what have you been playing since or, or what sort 44 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,520 of gaming stuff have you been up to since the last step? 45 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,640 What haven't I been playing is is probably so I I think the 46 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:28,160 last time we talked we were on the cusp of the the switch to 47 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,840 pre-order yes, which I managed to bag. 48 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:35,160 So I'm very thankful that I managed to bag one weirdly 49 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,440 through Argos with Mario Kart, so saved a bit of cash as well. 50 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:41,400 So very much looking forward to June for that. 51 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,280 And then, yeah, I seem to have been ripping through quite a lot 52 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:51,240 of the recent Game Pass releases, got my mind completely 53 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:56,160 blown by the puzzle of blueprints, which, which I know 54 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,200 I, I talked to you about, but the depth that that thing goes 55 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,720 is insane. I mean, it's, it's almost like 56 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,720 you kind of you complete the, the main objective, which is 57 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,040 essentially it, it's essentially a room building game, the play 58 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,360 on words, blueprints and you build rooms and it's a road 59 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:12,880 light. So you kind of go through each 60 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,520 day and the rooms reset. But the idea is to find the 61 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,920 elusive missing room 46. But once you've done that, it's 62 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:21,200 almost like you've done about 25% of the game. 63 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,240 The depth of the puzzles in The thing is just insane. 64 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,320 And you only have to take a look at Reddit to see, you know, the 65 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,640 amount of conspiracies and theories and, you know, 66 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,560 solutions and all sorts of these things. 67 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,360 So it's it not normally my normal type of game, but I've 68 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,080 seen such good things about it. I thought, you know, I'm going 69 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,080 to give it a blast. So, so that was one thing. 70 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,320 And then on your recommendation, I picked up South at Midnight 71 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,760 and tore through that, completed that, loved it. 72 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,480 Not even on story mode, which is which is the usual for me. 73 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:51,800 I kind of went, no, do you know what? 74 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,280 I'm going to have a go at it. And, you know, it's not a taxing 75 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,000 game, but absolutely beautiful, you know, stunning, the music in 76 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,040 it, It's incredible. You know, you know, it's good 77 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,520 when when your wife sits down and goes, it's really weird, but 78 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,280 it it looks great. I was like, yeah, yeah. 79 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:13,240 So and then obviously just the last week, Oblivion Remastered, 80 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,519 I mean, it's just hit the nostalgia spot, you know, that 81 00:04:16,519 --> 00:04:19,519 nostalgia sweet spot. And and you know, I'm only level 82 00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:22,800 7 or 8 or something at the moment, but it's, you know, it's 83 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,080 taken me back 15 odd years going. 84 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,640 This is what RPGs were like when in their heyday. 85 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,920 So yeah, yeah. And then, you know, gearing up 86 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:36,440 for a bit of doom later next month and just just generally 87 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,960 absorbing what's out there. Nice, nice. 88 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,320 How about you? It's it's been a couple of games 89 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,000 since we've last last recorded. So and do you know what? 90 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,480 And and you saying what you're saying about blueprints in the 91 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,400 South at midnight, which I'll come onto as well leads in, I 92 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,960 think perfectly accidentally to our main talking point as well, 93 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:55,680 doesn't it, Which we'll come onto. 94 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,480 But for me there was two games. It was Life is Strange double 95 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,360 exposure I do like. You're a big fan of those, 96 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:04,840 aren't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 97 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:06,440 Those, those Life are strange pieces. 98 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,000 Yeah. I, I, I couldn't get into them, 99 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:09,960 but I know, I know you. You really enjoyed them. 100 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,440 Oh. I think the first one still 101 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,480 stands out for me, head and head and shoulders above them all. 102 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,240 This one I had fun with it. It's not as good but personally 103 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,560 but I still I still enjoy that type of game it. 104 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:22,800 It hints. I haven't. 105 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:24,920 I haven't seen anything about it, but it hints at something 106 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,680 camera related. With the whole double exposure 107 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,320 it it feels like there's a an element with a. 108 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,360 Is it? Is there, it's, it's actually, 109 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,800 it's the, the, I think the first game had more of a camera 110 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,200 element. This one is, it's, it's very 111 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,000 clever. It's got 2 timelines. 112 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,680 So it's not a spoiler because it's part of the game. 113 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:47,160 So there's a character dies and your character can be in the 114 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,800 timeline where she's died and the timeline where she's still 115 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:50,920 alive. And I think that's what the 116 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,720 double exposure is, is gotcha. Makes sense? 117 00:05:54,280 --> 00:05:56,720 And I think the reason why I like those games is they've got 118 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,560 like a heart to it. The characters are quite. 119 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,080 There's a bit of emotion behind the characters. 120 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,160 Got you. What I look, I think it's 121 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,600 something we both enjoy about the games that we pick up is, is 122 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,200 the storytelling element, right? Is that you kind of get you kind 123 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,360 of get pulled in, you're drawn into the, you know, the the 124 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,600 games that we typically play in that. 125 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,560 And actually I think when we go on to talk about today's topic, 126 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,880 there's a lot of those feedings that because they're very much 127 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,280 story driven, certainly the ones that I reminisce about are very 128 00:06:28,280 --> 00:06:30,840 much story driven elements to them that pull you in. 129 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:35,600 Yeah, it's I've really found myself over the last probably 10 130 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,640 years is the games gotta have that story for me. 131 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,600 It doesn't have to be like mega cutscenes or anything. 132 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,760 It, it could be told through like I've only had brief 133 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,640 exposure to, to blueprints, but it could be through notes or 134 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,600 something, you know, and that that could sometimes be almost. 135 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,120 Like game in this entirety. So, yeah, I played that and 136 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:55,920 completed it. The other game was South of 137 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,600 Midnight, which I know I was talking to you about and, and I 138 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,120 love this game. So if you're listening and 139 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,280 you're on Xbox, it's on Game Pass for me. 140 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:05,520 Yeah. If you've got Game Pass, it's 141 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,920 it's just play it. You know, you've got nothing to 142 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:08,800 lose. For me. 143 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,800 It's, you know, we at some point we might talk about it. 144 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,240 We've discussed there are, you know, it's not, is it perfect 145 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,800 game? No, but it's it looks great. 146 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,640 The soundtrack for me is just astonishing. 147 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,400 It's phenomenal. I actually want to buy the 148 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,080 soundtrack and and I think I found it on Spotify because it's 149 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,400 it's just so good. And again, it's a game that's 150 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,840 got that heart and emotional core to it, hasn't it? 151 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,840 It has, yeah, 100%. It's a it's a wonderful story. 152 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:44,520 Didn't quite go to the place, so I was expecting it to and and I 153 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:49,080 think the only thing that for me was the tiniest of letdowns was 154 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:54,800 the end was just very abrupt. But you know, like you, I think, 155 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,440 you know, it's the epitome of that, of that AA statement of a 156 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,320 game which is like, you know, come and play me. 157 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,920 I'm not going to take up inordinate amounts of your time 158 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,880 or maybe brain power, but I am going to draw you in with 159 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,200 something quite special. Yeah, yeah. 160 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,840 I was like, yeah, I started playing it and I thought, oh, 161 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,840 it's just a like an action adventure game. 162 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:19,960 But when you do the first sort of quotes boss, yeah, it spun on 163 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:21,280 its head for me then. Yeah. 164 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,640 And and I just thought, wow, this this is a game. 165 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:25,920 So yeah, I completed that. I completed that last week. 166 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:30,120 So the frustrating thing was I done, I think it's got 14 167 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:31,520 chapters. Is it 14? 168 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,559 Yeah, 4 four, Yeah, 14 sounds about right. 14-15 something 169 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:36,400 like that. Well, I did. 170 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,640 I I got to the penultimate chapter before I went on 171 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,200 holiday. Then I left it for a week and I 172 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,320 was just thinking, what's that last chapter going to be like, 173 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:43,280 man? I can't wait. 174 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:44,520 And then you get to it and you're like. 175 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,040 Oh yeah. Oh, OK. 176 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,000 And, and I think just to echo you, I couldn't believe it, I 177 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,160 was so excited when I saw Oblivion Remastered drop. 178 00:08:55,160 --> 00:09:01,120 So I think that came the day I got back and I, I, I'm someone 179 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,520 who, I completed it originally sort of three or four times, I 180 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:05,240 think. Oblivion. 181 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:07,440 Yeah. Weirdly, I was having a look on 182 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,520 the Xbox because the, the achievements bit shows you the 183 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,040 dates you unlocked it. I've obviously completed it in 184 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,720 between, but my first achievement was in 2009. 185 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,640 The final achievement, which 100% is it was 2017. 186 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,560 So I've been playing it. I was playing it sort of like on 187 00:09:23,560 --> 00:09:25,800 and off for eight years. It's almost like a new game, 188 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,480 isn't it? It is it. 189 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,480 It was one of those games that took over my life at the time, 190 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,520 you know, I, I, I played it and it was it, it, it was all 191 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,360 encapsulated. It was the only thing I played, 192 00:09:38,680 --> 00:09:42,640 you know, and I laughed off the whole horse armour, you know, 193 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,920 start going and, you know, and, and I think it was those 194 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:51,520 interconnected systems that you just kind of go, this is nuts. 195 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,640 Like, you know, being a, for anyone who hasn't done it, try 196 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,280 it. But, but when you get hold of a 197 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,800 poison apple, being able to pickpocket and put that in 198 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,480 someone's pocket and then just walk away and watch them slowly 199 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,920 lose 10 health points every 5 seconds or whatever it is and 200 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,440 die, you know, with, with no ability to heal them. 201 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,960 So, you know, those sorts of things and the, and, and the 202 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,920 way, all right, you look at it now and it's a bit clunky, like 203 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,160 the MPC's wandering the same routes and things like that. 204 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:21,720 But but still from from, you know, we're talking 15, 17 years 205 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,280 ago when it was coded. It's a work of art and just 206 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:26,920 that. And you can see where all those 207 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,680 RPGs come from. And it is like you say, now in 208 00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:32,280 Unreal Engine 5, but like a new game. 209 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,480 I mean, it looks stunning. I mean, it's still a bit janky, 210 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,840 but it looks amazing. Yeah, I mean, it wouldn't be 211 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,560 Oblivion or a Bethesda game, right if it didn't have some 212 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,440 some clunkiness. I mean, I still think the 213 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,440 original still looks good. Do you know what it's lost for 214 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,840 me that the original had? It was sounds really bad, but 215 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:56,160 it's that Vaseline 70's porn star shine that it had to it in 216 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,320 the original, right? And now they've kind of taken it 217 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,680 and kind of gone. No, no, no, we're not going to 218 00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:04,240 do that. It's very pretty, but it's there 219 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,120 are there are elements to it. Well, they've taken that away. 220 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,720 It looks very brown. Quite a lot. 221 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,480 Very much. Yeah, very much brown. 222 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:12,960 Not a bad way. Well. 223 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,520 There's two bits I'm looking forward to. 1 is the the 224 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:17,920 Shivering Isles. Yes. 225 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:19,600 I never never played that day or so. 226 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,920 Didn't you or the OR the OR the other one? 227 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,720 There were two weren't there and I didn't play either of them. 228 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,400 So I'm really looking forward to getting the end game and playing 229 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:28,240 that. That's good. 230 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,800 That's good. And the other one was there's a 231 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,080 mission I remember where you you go into like a painting or a 232 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,240 painted world or something like that. 233 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,360 That rings a bell. So I've just done the dream 234 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,400 world. So in one of the towns you have 235 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,880 to enter someone's dream and do the tests of perception and 236 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,040 courage. And so you, so there's there's 237 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,400 that one. And yes, there is. 238 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:51,880 I can't remember if that was this or Skyrim, but there's 239 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,320 definitely AI remove the painting because as I was 240 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,360 playing, I was like, is, is this the painting? 241 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,640 And then I was like, no, no, no, this is different. 242 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,760 This isn't. But yes, there is the painting 243 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:02,440 model. That's it. 244 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:03,760 I've got two more things to say about it. 245 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,840 One, I'm like, you know, I'm still early on, I'm level 10 I 246 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,680 think. But I've decided to to hit the 247 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,160 Dark Brotherhood missions because I want to get all the 248 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,360 the bad stuff done 1st and out the way so I can focus on being 249 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,240 the good guy again. Oblivion for me was one of the 250 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,320 first games when I first played it and I think I might have done 251 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,200 it on the PC either way, where I realized because I was new to 252 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,720 the game that I completed the main quest in like, I don't 253 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:32,760 know, 6-7 hours, but there was like 80 hours of game outside of 254 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,360 the main quest. And that's what, you know, my, 255 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,480 my mind was blown at that, that, you know, hold on. 256 00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:41,320 The main quest is like the smallest part of this game. 257 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,200 Yeah, I was, I was reading just today actually. 258 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,840 It was just an article popped up on probably I Gen. or something 259 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,000 and basically said, you know, where you know, how long is it 260 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,640 and it and I think it was like between 20 and 25 hours for the 261 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,640 main campaign if you take it at, you know, a steady pace. 262 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,720 And then the additional content could take it anywhere up to 263 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,440 about 120 hours. And then shivering aisles and 264 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,880 the other DLC were about 40 hours each. 265 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:10,560 And I was like, wow, I'm not doing anything till 2027 then am 266 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:11,960 I? I mean, that's me sorted. 267 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:17,320 So but yeah, I you know, just just you think what went into 268 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:22,960 making and and there aren't that many of your bog standard, you 269 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:24,760 know, fetch quests and things like that. 270 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,200 They're all quite nicely tailored and written, and you 271 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,800 know you need again, is what makes it kind of special, right? 272 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,080 But it's the ones that you stumble across. 273 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,520 So it's definitely a game. I mean, it does force you not to 274 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,040 for a lot of it, but it's definitely a game that rewards 275 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,280 not fast travelling. Yeah, you have, I think you have 276 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,320 doing this. I'm nodding in agreement even 277 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:45,720 though I've been fast travelling quite. 278 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:47,480 A lot. No, I think there is some like 279 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,640 for me when I'm doing like the Dark Brotherhood, you'll fulfil 280 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,960 a contract and then I'll fast travel back to where I need to 281 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,040 go for that because I know there's going to be missions in 282 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,720 when I can explore. But yeah, it's yeah, if you're 283 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,480 listening. Explore, explore, explore. 284 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,440 That's all I say. So OK, I think we've caught up 285 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,080 with where well what we've done since we last released. 286 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,960 So let's hear a trailer from some friends of of ours. 287 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:14,520 It's going to be the Game Club pod. 288 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,240 Now I love these guys. The thing is they do about 5 or 289 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,800 6 different ultimately sort of sub series which come out 290 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,880 various days and every other week. 291 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,040 So yeah, let's hear from them now, but make sure you'll say 292 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:46,920 you go check them out. Hey kids, are you looking for a 293 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,840 new favorite fortnightly video game review podcast? 294 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,040 And boy howdy, have we got the show for you. 295 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,280 We take a different game every two weeks and we review them 296 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,160 just like a book club. You can find us on all good 297 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,200 podcasting platforms and some of the sketchy ones too. 298 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,680 Simply search for the Game Club Podcast and join the club today. 299 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:15,000 Right, Dan, we are back and as I was saying before, we have got a 300 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,480 number of subjects we want to do as a like a main talking point 301 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,360 of the episode. I think this one, we didn't plan 302 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,960 it, but it's fitting really well with the games we were talking 303 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,120 about at the start. So we're kind of going to talk 304 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,200 about what it is or the difference between like AAA 305 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,840 versus AA and I guess we need to throw in indie games into it. 306 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,320 Yeah. So I guess we need to just for 307 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,840 our view is what do we think the difference is between them? 308 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,240 So I think it's easy with the indie independent developers. 309 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,680 You know, you're, you're talking maybe a handful of people, 310 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,200 right? It's a game on a real shoestring 311 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:51,640 budget, usually. Yeah. 312 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,440 And I think a lot these days and maybe actually historically, 313 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,080 you've kind of been primarily released digitally. 314 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,640 And a lot of them take an opportunity in the indie space 315 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,120 because you probably would write to release some things like Game 316 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,840 Pass, to release some things like, you know, PlayStation 317 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,760 Plus, PS Plus, because, you know, it affords you a mass 318 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,000 audience for something that's potentially a a first project 319 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,720 or, or something on a much smaller scale than you've got 320 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,200 ambition for. So yeah, for that in that kind 321 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,120 of indie space, it's a bit like back in the day, right? 322 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,520 In the 90s, eighties, 90s, you know, when you you go indie 323 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,800 music, same thing, right? It's an Independent Record 324 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,560 label. It's it's small, it's niche. 325 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,240 It's maybe not something you go to a small venue here or 326 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:32,720 whatever. It's like, it's almost like that 327 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,520 extrapolated out onto onto the digital gaming scale. 328 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,000 And then you kind of go up a tier. 329 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,600 And I think, you know, I hadn't when we, when we were, we 330 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,360 started discussing this, I was, I was kind of like charged do a 331 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,120 little bit of research, just my insanity. 332 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:50,080 And whilst, you know, there is a a rating, I think you almost 333 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,600 kind of go, well, indie's probably around that similar 334 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,200 sort of space because you then move up to a kind of AA which 335 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,560 which is actually more, you know, bigger budget, bigger 336 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,040 development team, but not of a scale that's mass marketed, not 337 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,000 of your, you know, your Assassin's creeds and your Gtas 338 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,119 and things like that. It's kind of a smaller, so I 339 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,119 guess it's there's quite a broad swath of games that could 340 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,359 potentially fall into this. And when, when I was reading 341 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,040 some of this detail, interestingly, some names popped 342 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:20,640 up, the kind of guy, I didn't even think about that. 343 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,440 And they said we're not for things like the marketing 344 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:26,000 rounding, something like FIFA would be considered the AA 345 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,720 because actually it's a smaller scale development team. 346 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,360 It doesn't take an awful lot of money pumped into it. 347 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:36,400 But actually, you know, it's it's because of the marketing 348 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,680 sits behind it. It's it's a AAA and 349 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,720 interestingly, one of the what they think is probably one of 350 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,080 the most expensive games ever to develop, which I haven't 351 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:46,600 considered. But when you think about what 352 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,360 they've put into it was actually Half Life Alex, because of the 353 00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:52,840 platform, because of the tech they developers build into it, 354 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:54,680 because they bought their own orchestra. 355 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,320 They, you know, all of these things they did to create all of 356 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,200 the stuff for it. Actually, that Valve never 357 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,360 released the numbers, but they think it was probably one of the 358 00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:05,000 most expensive games ever made and therefore considered AAA, 359 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,280 even though the opposite was true, that it was niche marketed 360 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:11,520 to a smaller number of people. It's a weird thing. 361 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,680 Well, this is what I was going to ask you. 362 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,440 And while we're still talking about what we think he's or 363 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:21,960 isn't like Triple V AA. So in my head I'd always had it 364 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,880 that yeah, your AAA is your big budget, big studios, big 365 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,680 marketing, right? Yeah. 366 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,040 And your AA then you just go down a level, maybe it's not 367 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,200 marketed as much etcetera. But you know, when I was looking 368 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,520 around on the net, some of it was saying like production 369 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,200 values, you know, AAA, very big production values. 370 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,840 But then, you know, I was saying there's two things. 371 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,920 One, look at South of Midnight. I would put that as a AA game. 372 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:48,040 Agreed. Yeah, but. 373 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,880 When you're looking at it, they've not skimped on the 374 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,840 production values. I think, you know, certain game 375 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,840 mechanics could be improved, but when you're looking at it as a 376 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,480 whole, it you know, it's great. And the one I want to put to you 377 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,480 and I asked Joey of Game Club Pod as a as a test for this and 378 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,400 he kind of thought very similar to me. 379 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,520 So I thought I'd throw this at you as a surprise. 380 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,000 Boulders Gate 3, Where does that sit for you? 381 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:18,680 So boulders get to AA for me because I think it was in pre 382 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,720 release for a very long time but probably one of the longest I've 383 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,560 ever seen. I'm hoping no rest of the wicket 384 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:28,160 doesn't go the same way and I didn't partake in the pre 385 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,480 release. I read lots about it and I used 386 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,160 to be a huge DND nerd back in the day. 387 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,480 I used to play almost religiously every evening with a 388 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,440 group of friends. And so I, I, I waited for it 389 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,920 with great anticipation. And when it came out it, I don't 390 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,360 think you know, from a, from a AA versus AAA look, it wasn't 391 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:50,160 mass marketed. I think the word of mouth thing 392 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,760 hit post, you know, advance release. 393 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:54,520 I think, you know, lots of people came vested in the 394 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,440 forums, blew up with it, you know, and it became this true. 395 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,720 Look, it really is a proper DND game. 396 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,800 You're you're, it's limitless in terms of the things you can do 397 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,800 to overcome a problem. And I think that's the beauty 398 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:07,480 of, you know, Dungeons and Dragons. 399 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,640 Part of that being a geek back in the day was, you know, if I'm 400 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,040 going to solve a problem, I can do something. 401 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:13,720 Shit, I'm just going to turn invisible and nick this thing 402 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,760 out of this guy's pocket. I'm going to, you know, and you 403 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,040 just roll the dice to determine it. 404 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,680 And they've managed to build that mostly into a into a video 405 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,680 game, which was phenomenal. But. 406 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,680 As a, you know, look, Larian studios aren't massive, you 407 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,600 know, they haven't got a massive track record. 408 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,400 They've they, they, it's a small development team. 409 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,280 So for me it's a AA all day long. 410 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,240 But you know. And this is it. 411 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,640 So initially I said AA because like you said, Larian aren't a 412 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,400 massive studio and that's no disrespect to them, but I think 413 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,760 what it is. And then I then decided to look 414 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,000 around and some people call it triple AI. 415 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,960 Think what it is, is they're a AA studio that have produced a 416 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,560 AAA game in the sense of they've shown love to it. 417 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,080 They've they've created a fully contained game. 418 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,640 Yeah. I've I've not actually played it 419 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:04,920 yet. I've got it, but I've not played 420 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,800 it. But they've it's clearly what 421 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,680 what do they call it? A project of love for them. 422 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,640 You know, they've not just I've done this by numbers. 423 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,120 So yeah, are we seeing that? And that's what I was thinking 424 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,400 coming to this. The the lines I think are 425 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,880 blurring more because indie developers aren't just they're 426 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,640 not just churning out spot the difference game or almost like a 427 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,120 PowerPoint slide game. Indie developers are up in the 428 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:32,360 game a bit. The AA games are up in the game 429 00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:34,200 a bit. And maybe what we're seeing is 430 00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:37,920 and, and actually something I was going to say to you, are we 431 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,440 falling out of love with what we traditionally call AAA games? 432 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:46,120 Because some of these AA studios are producing far higher quality 433 00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:49,440 than maybe what we've seen from quote AAA. 434 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,480 Yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure it's if that wouldn't be the reason I 435 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,240 was falling out of love with them in all, I think it's it's 436 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,360 the repetitiveness and it's the cookie cutter attitude to what 437 00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:02,080 they're doing and. But that's kind of what I mean. 438 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,040 Sorry. Yeah, there's no risks. 439 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,360 There's no frills. Yeah, there's, yeah, you, you 440 00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:09,080 throw in another mechanic, you, you kind of go, it's essentially 441 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,360 the same thing. I I'm, you know, it's on a snow 442 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:14,040 planet, not a lava planet, but I've thrown in a grappling hook. 443 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,840 It's fine. You know, it's the same game 444 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,640 with a different suit and and for me that that would be why I 445 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:21,920 fall out of love with those franchises. 446 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,640 And Far Cry is a great example of that, right? 447 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,280 Far Cry, not, you know, big AAA title, right, But it sits in the 448 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,640 Ubisoft camp, you know, fantastic game. 449 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,600 First one was brilliant. Second one was in better. 450 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:36,480 Third one just insane and about insanity, but a fantastic game. 451 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,360 And then it started getting, do you know what? 452 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,840 I've done all this? And it's just a slightly 453 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,040 different setting. And the protagonist is, is 454 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,480 slightly different and the antagonist is slightly 455 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,520 different. But the story's just, you know, 456 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,080 and yeah, or I went and played them, but you're like, oh, look, 457 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,400 there's an elephant in it. Or there's a, you know, and 458 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,080 you're like, really? Or now I've added a dog as a 459 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,040 sidekick and you're kind of like, yeah, but I'm just doing, 460 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,120 I'm just basically sniping enemy camps from a distance and then 461 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:05,920 going in and taking a look at it, you know, so. 462 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,680 No, sorry, but this is exactly what I was going to say. 463 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,800 Where where I say, you know, well, I'd say for my part that 464 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,840 are falling out of love with the triple AAA games is because 465 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,720 we're saying the AA's are up in their game, Indies are up in 466 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,360 their game and AAA's. And you know, I'm not going to 467 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,080 say for all of the games and not going to say there's no 468 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:25,960 enjoyment, but it's absolutely what you said. 469 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,800 It's year in, year out. We get the same game reskinned. 470 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,920 And you know, games have been doing that for since since it's 471 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,000 dawn of time, right. But you know, look at some of 472 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,080 the games I absolutely loved in the past. 473 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:42,080 Call of Duty, I used to, I couldn't wait for the new game 474 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,480 to come out. Then I think they did a clever 475 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:50,320 thing by doing alternating it year on year with Black Ops and 476 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,120 yeah that gave 2 studios 2 years in between. 477 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,640 But even that then just felt difficult or sorry, it felt 478 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,080 tiring. Assassin's Creed was another 1. 479 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,160 I loved that series. I think it's quite telling that 480 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,680 I've been playing Assassin's Creed religiously for the moment 481 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,920 that the shadows to the to the moment I picked up blueprints 482 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,080 and then South of midnight and immediately my attention was 483 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,240 diverted away. And I did go back after I 484 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,560 finished South of Midnight and and complete what I could have 485 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,800 blueprints and went back and I was just like, I just, I'm just 486 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,720 back into murder machine mode and I'm not really feeling. 487 00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:32,880 But that's just getting the same game and you know, it saturates 488 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,320 like Assassin's Creed. I went a few years without 489 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,240 buying them and then I think when Origins came out, or was it 490 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,480 Odyssey, I like that. But now even then again now it 491 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,040 felt felt like they were then just releasing and but making 492 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,600 them bigger and bigger, which I'm not saying is necessarily 493 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,960 the right thing. So here's, here's an interesting 494 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,840 thing, right? So, so I made a list. 495 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,600 I was like, right, thinking back through my potted history of of 496 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,440 games, I made a list of double what I consider AA games, right? 497 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,880 And people can, can disagree. And with two exceptions, there 498 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,520 are no sequels to any of these games. 499 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:06,480 OK, right. OK. 500 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,440 And I haven't included Dead Space on that list, although I 501 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,640 wish I kind of had off sort of in no particular order, recent 502 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,200 ones are kind of Atlas Fallen and Eternal Strands, right? 503 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,840 So I'm going to take them off because if there's a sequel, 504 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,080 they're not going to answer it right yet. 505 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,760 Time Shift, which was kind of a first person shooter, time 506 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,200 travel, weirdly evil W, which was another fairly recent right, 507 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:32,920 rogue warrior, black second sight, psyops prototype. 508 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,280 And then there was a prototype T, some kind of like. 509 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,480 And then there was Singularity and the exceptions. 510 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,840 I guess there was breakdown as well, which was an early one. 511 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,600 I've, I've, we've spoken about this before and you don't 512 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,000 remember it and I fondly remember it. 513 00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:47,920 And then there's the kind of two exceptions were fear, because I 514 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,440 love the fear games 1-2 and three and then Darksiders, which 515 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,520 I also love that 123. But I think all of those I was, 516 00:25:54,560 --> 00:26:00,200 I would consider kind of AA standard games and I, I can't 517 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,680 quite put my finger on what makes them that for me, it's 518 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,720 almost like they're really well put together without the level 519 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:12,600 of Polish and they're there. There's a narrative to each of 520 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:18,160 them that hooked me in without it being the same time and time 521 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,240 again. You know, even with Darksiders, 522 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,880 I think switching to a different character with a different 523 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,800 perspective on a, on the same storyline that was happening was 524 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,320 kind of a, a really cool way of, you know, moving that narrative 525 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,280 or with different abilities and things on that. 526 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,880 But I think each one of those was, you know, and I can't, I'm 527 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,160 struggling to articulate what it is that I think makes them AA 528 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,400 and not AAA because for me it's not a scoring rank, right? 529 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,240 You know, you could easily turn into that. 530 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,960 But I think there is just that, you know, instantly when 531 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,400 something's a, a AAA GTA is a prime example of that, right? 532 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,200 And that was something that went from a AA, an indie actually, 533 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,040 all the way through all of those things. 534 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,760 But you see, I guess the difference because GTA and you 535 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:07,440 would crop up from one of us, I think it's the difference for 536 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,600 that one is because they do wait so long between iterations. 537 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,040 So it's you are waiting for the next one. 538 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,400 And they generally do tend to up the game a little bit. 539 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,400 They mix it up, you know. You said it yourself with Far 540 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:21,880 Cry as well. Loved the first. 541 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,600 When we talk about Far Cry, I'm talking about the more modern 542 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,040 iteration. So is it like 345? 543 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,200 Yeah, 2 was kind of your South Africa, Yeah, but yeah, it was, 544 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,560 it was 3 where it really went kicked off. 545 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,040 Yeah, and I loved that game, but then you were just playing the 546 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,520 same game again. Yeah, I mean, even Primal, which 547 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,800 was like, you know, well, we're going to make it different. 548 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,840 And you're like, but you're not. I haven't got sniper rifle, but 549 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,040 I've got both that does exactly the same thing. 550 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:52,000 It's just a different you've given me, you know, so. 551 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,560 Yeah. I mean, but go back to your 552 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:59,200 point, what you're saying about why you know those games for me 553 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,280 and you, you said so many good games in there like Second Sight 554 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,960 and Psyops as well. Is it that all of those, the 555 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,800 telling point was you said no sequels? 556 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,520 Is it that these are like brand new IPS, brand new stories? 557 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,800 So there's a bit of love and attention put into it and 558 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,960 knowing that you can't capture maybe lightning in a bottle a 559 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,680 second time or the opposite that it's not. 560 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,320 But you know, it's not iteration 8 of the same game. 561 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,360 So they're just churning it out at that point because they know 562 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:31,360 people are going to buy it. Is there that that attention and 563 00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:37,120 love and thought put into a game that isn't a title #8? 564 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,520 I think it's probably a bit of the form where I think it's, you 565 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,080 know, a lot, a lot of these things. 566 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,760 Is it lightning in a bottle or is it I've told that story, you 567 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,800 know, because even when you know, you take something like 568 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,880 Prototype was on my list. The first game was incredible. 569 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,160 The second game was OK and it was like it was just a bit more 570 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,160 of the same, which don't get me wrong, in some instances I 571 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,680 absolutely love, you know, and I'm happy to pick it up and have 572 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,080 a bit of popcorn and just kind of go, oh, it's what it is. 573 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,440 But I think a lot of those on that list that didn't have a 574 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,240 sequel or a planned sequel were were purely they told that 575 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,200 story. It was an encapsulated story and 576 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,840 they're kind of going to have done that and that, you know, 577 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,480 I've told it and it worked. And and you could argue that 578 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,320 maybe they didn't sell, right. Maybe it didn't sell in the 579 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:25,800 quantities that warranted a signal. 580 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:31,280 And I think that's part of the depressing thing is a lot of 581 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,680 these games that we talk about the Assassin's Creeds, FIFA's, 582 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,000 Grand Theft Auto, wherever they are, these big games, they're 583 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,000 purely driven by a number. It's all about, you know, 584 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,520 capitalism. It's all about, you know, 585 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,440 they've drawn in this. I mean, one of the biggest games 586 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,960 in the world right now is GTA Online, all right. 587 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,400 So it's like, well, it'd be a no brainer not to make a sequel to 588 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:56,320 a massive selling game like GTA5, all right, Make 6 up, 589 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,440 upload or upgrade the online component and continue to spin 590 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,080 money off the back of it. So a lot of you know, so when 591 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,880 you see these things that you know, like Dead Space and things 592 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,680 like that, they don't quite make the money. 593 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,040 Because we got three of those right? 594 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,720 And they were all great in their own way. 595 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,360 That story of Isaac and the different settings that he was 596 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,480 placed in. And they were all really good 597 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,360 stories in their own right. And the only reason the three 598 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,680 didn't happen from the studios and the developers themselves 599 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,480 was that because it didn't make enough money. 600 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,960 So they had more story to tell. I think a lot of the time that 601 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,080 you know, they they've told that story they want to tell, 602 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,240 therefore they don't need to or they've got more stories to 603 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,880 tell. But sorry, it didn't make enough 604 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:36,800 money, we're not going to bother. 605 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,640 You know, I want to say I'm not bashing AAA games because there 606 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,840 are some good ones out there and you know, there are people 607 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,160 obviously get enjoyment out of them. 608 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,600 But the other thing is we call it churning them out. 609 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,680 They know people well, they know it will sell, especially Call of 610 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,360 Duty. It doesn't matter how many times 611 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,520 the campaign is slated. It sells because you know, they 612 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,680 know what they're doing with the online side of things. 613 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,280 And it doesn't matter that it's just a slight reskin. 614 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,960 It's it's so you can't win sometimes because when they do 615 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:13,440 tweak it, they get slammed for going away from what is the Call 616 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,600 of Duty formula. So it's almost like damned if 617 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:16,960 you do and damned if you don't, right? 618 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,360 As a studio? Yeah, absolutely. 619 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,880 You know, I totally on board. Look, there are games that I'm 620 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,840 still looking forward to that are considered AAA and I love 621 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:31,160 that, you know, studios like Bethesda and people are that, 622 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:32,800 you know, like I totally spoke about them. 623 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,560 I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't, you know, say that, you know I'm 624 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,760 not whilst I love AA games and then probably where my heart is, 625 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,720 I will happily go to a AAA game, do Medievals out soon. 626 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,480 I'm going to smash that right, So that's going to be 1. 627 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,560 You know, the next Bethesda RPG that comes out, I'm going to 628 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,520 smash that right. I'm going to because I know it's 629 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,200 going to be good. I know it's going to be well, I 630 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,200 see this is an interesting point, right. 631 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,360 So I say that and then you look at something like Starfield, 632 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:06,840 right, which had all the rumours and all the all the pre, you 633 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,920 know, speak about it. It was going to be this 634 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,920 phenomenal game changing sci-fi Skyrim, whatever it was, right, 635 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,200 It just wasn't. It was just a bit the same all 636 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,000 over. And I know they've done worked 637 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,680 and I haven't picked it up since I got bored after less than 20 638 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,360 hours. Like, and I'm not suggesting 639 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:30,120 every game should be, you know, stupidly long, but there wasn't 640 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,480 something it felt soulless. And then you look at something 641 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,040 like No Man's Sky, which I put, you know, pure indie. 642 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,720 And when it started out and I pumped hours and hours and hours 643 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:46,800 into without a created a curated story to stick to or you know, 644 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,520 someone else to go and speak to. That came much, much later. 645 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,800 So it's it's interesting. I think for me, if something 646 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:57,200 feels a little bit soulless and a little bit, I don't know, put 647 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,160 together like Lego, you're kind of like, is it? 648 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,160 And maybe that's the difference between AAA and and AA. 649 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,680 It's the it's the passion and the storytelling that's gone 650 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,280 into it. I do wonder with me as well, is 651 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:14,200 it, you know, we, we alluded to it in the last episode is, is it 652 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,000 that AAA's often they think more is better. 653 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,360 So I just don't have time to do it like Starfield. 654 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,240 That's a great one because for me, that's a game I should love, 655 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,320 right? Yeah, it's it's my game all 656 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:29,760 over. Right in your wheelhouse, right? 657 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,080 Just didn't get on with it, just didn't get on with it. 658 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,080 And I just it's because I just couldn't take the time I didn't 659 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,840 take the time to get to to really get taken with it. 660 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,720 But that's, that's my decision. And maybe, you know, and when I 661 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,760 look at the games I've been playing more recently, like, you 662 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,400 know, South of midnight, nice 12 hour campaign, you know, it 663 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,280 sounds longer than than it is. It kind of whizzed by, but 664 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:54,960 we're. We're all time poor, right? 665 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:57,800 But it's just the way we are these days. 666 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,000 We're all time poor. We don't have, you know, it's 667 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,640 our most precious commodity. You know, whilst we might have 668 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,680 disposable income, we haven't got disposable time. 669 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,960 So what we choose to spend our time on, you know, I did spend 670 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,560 time trying to engage with Starfield. 671 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,960 I made it exclusively the thing I was going to play when it 672 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,679 launched because I wanted to, you know, I wanted to get in 673 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:18,679 there and be a space pirate and, you know, have a jetpack and all 674 00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:23,040 that, you know. And yet it all just became a bit 675 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,560 meh. Now look, there'll be people out 676 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,880 there and I think this is the beauty of video games. 677 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,280 There'll be people out there who were screaming that it was, you 678 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,679 know, the greatest thing that was released that year or, or 679 00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:37,679 since. And fair play to you, right? 680 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:40,000 Because it's all supposed to be subjective. 681 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,639 This is your and I opinion on this whole thing, right? 682 00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:45,400 So this is, this is just our perspective and, and we're going 683 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,280 to agree on some things and we're going to disagree on some 684 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:48,960 things, but it just didn't click. 685 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,760 It didn't click. And, and I think there are a 686 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,920 number of and, and I'm finding more and more, maybe it's an age 687 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:55,400 thing. You know, like I said, 688 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,240 Assassin's Creed Cellos is unbelievably beautiful. 689 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,160 It is a stunning game. Honestly, if it was just a 690 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,000 riding a horse simulator, I would be quite happy just going 691 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,640 from place to place watching that wind pick up the leaves. 692 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,360 And but you know, I was blown away by Ghosts of Sashima, but 693 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,800 this is, this is, I didn't think anything could be in that same 694 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,200 setting. And it's stunning. 695 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,680 And now they've got Ghosts of your time, which just looks even 696 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,160 better. I'm kind of if I just did that, 697 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,040 I'd be happy, right? But it's the mechanics that sit 698 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,680 behind of have again have left it a bit soulless. 699 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,680 And maybe maybe there's something to say that the two of 700 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,000 us, we've got 40 plus years of gaming rights. 701 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:37,080 We've we've seen the quiet bit. But and I was just looking at 702 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,240 some of the, you know, I was just looking at my Xbox 703 00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:42,600 playlist, you know, because the majority of games I think 704 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,720 recently, other than like Oblivion is and and Call of Duty 705 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,880 is like those what I would say the AA and Indy, like I've got 706 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,600 South of midnight, there's a blueprints. 707 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,760 I've not played it fully yet. Now I've got a game blue 708 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,080 Wednesday. I played that. 709 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,920 That's something is, you know, that that line between AA and 710 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,240 Indy, I've got eternal strides Cabernet. 711 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,400 And I think what you were saying then is something you remind me 712 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:12,720 of, is that also, can you take more risks in a AA and Indy? 713 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:17,240 Because we've just said that when a AAA does take a risk, 714 00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:20,800 sometimes the fanbase don't like it because it's not, it's not 715 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,120 FIFA anymore. It doesn't feel like Far Cry 716 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,840 anymore. I think you can. 717 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,680 I think, I think that's, that's part of it. 718 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,720 But I think you can be more risky around what you put into 719 00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:33,480 it, what the story is. I mean, you know, look at a 720 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,320 studio like Double Fine. I mean, they base their whole 721 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,640 catalog basically, you know, on risk. 722 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,400 I mean, Tim Schafer started out at league shots and you know, 723 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,680 the great work he did on, you know, things like full throttle 724 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,160 and things like that. But but you know, when he split 725 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,480 and create a double fine, you know, get a game like 726 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,760 Psychonauts. I mean, come on, Can you imagine 727 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,800 the the board pitch for that? You know, well, actually it's a 728 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,280 group of secret agents that don't really exist in the real 729 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,000 world, but jump inside people's heads to solve their problems 730 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,160 and their and their, you know, and their mental health issues. 731 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,760 And you're not what I'm sorry, you're doing what I think. 732 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,320 You're right. I think there is an element of 733 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:15,840 risk that you can that you can almost gamble and but the danger 734 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,200 is the territory you then fall into that goes, well, OK, you 735 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,760 can do another one, but make it bigger and better and, and, you 736 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,040 know, sugarcoat it and whatever. And I think that's, you know, 737 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:30,000 the bit that's like, man, I wish they'd just make more of the 738 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,440 purity and more of the, you know, then, then, then try and 739 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,240 keep going and going. And there are some that like, 740 00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:40,800 like Assassin's Creed's a really good example of, you know, 741 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,840 they've had some fantastic, you know, it started off as, I mean, 742 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,080 in Venice, probably a AA title, right? 743 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,280 He's set in a very small world. It wasn't open world. 744 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,120 It was very nature. It was very and they tried to 745 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,520 set that back with Mirage and the, you know, but then you had, 746 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,800 you know, Black Flag and introduced a load of stuff that 747 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,800 people fell in love with and pirates and ships and sailing 748 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,560 and stuff like that. So I think he's done a really 749 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,120 good job of kind of moving things along. 750 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,920 But I think the last, you know, two or three have just got a 751 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,920 little bit same in a little bit kind of mare. 752 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,600 So I think they haven't been, they haven't taken those risks 753 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,720 that you talk about, you know. Yeah, well, they made it. 754 00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:18,280 I remember Assassin's Creed being one game where they said 755 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,600 right for a year or two we're not releasing a game. 756 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,320 Exactly. Yeah, we're going to that's. 757 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,280 What? It was like a breath of fresh 758 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,600 air, wasn't it? Yeah, I haven't got to worry 759 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,640 about getting that next year because I'm going to buy it. 760 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,600 I'm going to get it anyway. And you know, we took risks as 761 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,200 well. Another game hit me that I was 762 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,960 just looking at playing. Have you played a game called 763 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,720 Indica? No, you've, you've mentioned it 764 00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:43,360 2 minutes on my someone on my list. 765 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,120 It came out I was looking for something the other day and I 766 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,120 thought I've got that. And I was like, Oh yeah, Dan. 767 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,360 The only reason I'll bring that is so it I was having a look. 768 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:56,280 It's made by well developed by Automator and published by 11 769 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,600 Bitstudio. So I think they have former CD 770 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,200 project. But the game is about a nun 771 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,480 looking to adjust to monastic life. 772 00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:09,920 And the twist comes that shares a connection with the devil. 773 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:14,400 Now, no, you know, what game, what company is going to do 774 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,680 that? You know, you know, we're, we're 775 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:21,960 no, we're fine printing out FIFA 25262728 And, you know, and you 776 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:29,280 get these kind of quirky, interesting and inventive games 777 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:30,920 from the indie world. So maybe they're, you know, 778 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,600 maybe it's a what's the word? It's a great IO system where you 779 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,800 can get your big shooter yearly update, but you're still being 780 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:45,880 fed these quirky games. I'd, I, I would much rather have 781 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,480 the best of both worlds. All right, so, so like you said, 782 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,360 this isn't about knocking anything that's, you know, that 783 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,400 that's out there from a, from a triple-A large marketing, large 784 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,520 budget. You know, I sound quite down on 785 00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,560 the whole thing, but I, I wouldn't want it any other way, 786 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,520 right? I I love the fact that I get to 787 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,600 pick and choose. You know, the games that I play 788 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,000 in the way I want to play them on the format I want to play 789 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,960 them and the type that I want to play. 790 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:13,160 I've always been primarily single player focused, you know, 791 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,360 whether it's a shooter, whether it's a RPG or, you know, puzzle, 792 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,280 whatever. But I'm not, I'm not a big 793 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,240 online gamer. I just, you know, I just haven't 794 00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:23,200 got the patience for it. I think, you know, playing with 795 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,320 other people and I. Haven't got the reactions 796 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,080 anymore. Definitely haven't got the 797 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,480 reactions used to. We used to do it right, but I 798 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,160 think now, you know, I've got kind of I've, I've very much 799 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,040 gone into it. So, so the fact that I can 800 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,960 choose between, you know, an indie game that does something 801 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,680 fantastically well like Boltaro, which is just a card game, you 802 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,040 know, that I got obsessed with last year, right. 803 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,480 The way through to, you know, the gamut of all these big 804 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,000 fancy, flashy, you know, super advertised games. 805 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,240 You know, I love the fact that I can do that and everything in 806 00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:54,400 between because it's like I said, it's, you know, I think 807 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,840 it's such a subjective thing. You know, one man's junk is 808 00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,280 another man's treasure in video games. 809 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,960 I think that's that's never been truer than than the world we 810 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,000 live in today With it. We're spoiled for choice. 811 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,160 Yeah, and that's the thing. And I was going to say, yeah, so 812 00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:10,240 I will, you know, I'm not sort of Call of Duty as much as I've 813 00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:12,840 said, oh, it does this and that and it's just churning out. 814 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,160 So I've I've, I've done it recently with a few friends, 815 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,680 jumping in on the online side of things because there is that 816 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,920 element of just jumping in, having a few games with some 817 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,240 friends, having a laugh, getting annoyed at it. 818 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,280 And it's fun, but playing the campaign I used to love, I said 819 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,000 to you, I used to love waiting for the campaign. 820 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,400 So Modern Warfare 1-2, probably 3, even Black Ops 123, but the 821 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,200 newer ones turned me off. However, a game go right back to 822 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,560 what you mentioned, Evil W where I picked up it was on game Pass, 823 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,000 you know, again, not the perfect game, but my God did I have fun 824 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,720 with that. Such fun I mean I mean it is I 825 00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:51,080 mean if you haven't played it, go and pick out because it's 826 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,360 just silly. It's just a silly. 827 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,920 You know, I can't think there's any super special mechanics to 828 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,040 or anything to make it you know stand out. 829 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,360 It's just a heavy, and I mean heavy in the kind of Gears of 830 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,960 War sense that, you know, you're quite a stompy, you know, not 831 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,520 even barely running around shooting things, you know, in 832 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,960 the old Bob W aboard at times they or was it a hot air balloon 833 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,120 or whatever the Zeppelin type, you know, it's kind of all this, 834 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,320 you know, but it was it was just pure fun. 835 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,000 It was like I can have a bit of that. 836 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,480 I'm happy. It was like ghosts of vampires 837 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,160 and things in in a Wild West setting, wasn't it? 838 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:28,720 And it's like, what a great mash up. 839 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,120 It was, it was brilliant. I mean, I'm talking about it now 840 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,720 and thinking maybe I'll go through that again tomorrow 841 00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:39,680 because it, yeah, it was just like you said it, it was fun. 842 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:44,640 And I think that if anything, it is what you really want, right? 843 00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:48,080 You just want it to be fun. And I'll reiterate what we said 844 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,320 in the first episode is that you and I have just grown up loving 845 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,080 games. And I think that's where 846 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,440 sometimes if we, if we're down on something, it's just because 847 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,320 we want the best from it, isn't it? 848 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,840 You know, we, we've always enjoyed doing what we're doing. 849 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,160 And and you know, we'll probably be doing this till we're 80, 850 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,960 right? I do, you know what I, I, I 851 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,000 often find it hard to think of a time where there won't be 852 00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:14,480 something. There was an article I was 853 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,280 reading the other day, but a guy was probably on Polygon or 854 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,000 something. But but, but someone kind of 855 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,400 talking about like, you know, I play video games, but they 856 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,760 genuinely help me, You know, they, they, it's not necessarily 857 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:31,520 a break from reality, but it's it, you know, just even recently 858 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,840 that that blueprints thing was almost a way to disconnect my 859 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:40,680 brain from work and reconnect with other parts of it that were 860 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,400 kind of puzzle solving because like I don't have them. 861 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:44,920 They're not on this job. But you know, there's always 862 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,200 something that comes up, but it's generally now more about 863 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,760 office politics and managing that, you know, the people 864 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,000 element of things. So to be able to go and switch 865 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:57,000 into a game that is about logic and puzzle solving. 866 00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,280 I mean, I did something I I've never done. 867 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,360 I don't know, it's probably around here somewhere, but I've 868 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,800 I've actually got honestly, I've got a notebook. 869 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,240 Everyone, I'm seeing my notebook. 870 00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:07,920 I never look. At. 871 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:14,480 That right make notes about like like look this little like. 872 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:17,720 That's a walk crew. You should be putting that 873 00:44:17,720 --> 00:44:18,840 online. That's a walk, crew. 874 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,400 But this is what I mean, you know, I've never done that. 875 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,280 But it became so absorbed. That says it. 876 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,000 I'm not. Yeah, right. 877 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,880 You're sitting there making notes about physical notes about 878 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,160 because I didn't want, I didn't want to spoil it by going, well, 879 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:33,560 let me just have a look at a guide. 880 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,760 And don't get me wrong, there were a couple of times I had to 881 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,800 because I was just like, this is frustrating the hell out of me 882 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,360 now. But in the main, I, I solved as 883 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,520 much as I possibly could, probably about 95% of what I did 884 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:44,960 in that game. And I, I know when they've 885 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,360 finished it, but even my daughters were getting involved. 886 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,640 So my, my 11 year old, she was, there's a puzzle in there that 887 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,000 revolves around the dartboard and it's all around arithmetic. 888 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:59,320 So, so addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, but 889 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,120 then it starts getting in things like square roots and, you know, 890 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,240 fractions and, and, but all around the numbers on the 891 00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:07,760 dartboard. So the solution is always going 892 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,320 to be a number between 1 and 20. And honestly, there were times 893 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,680 she was getting to a solution quicker than me and I was like, 894 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,000 this is this is brilliant. She's learning math. 895 00:45:19,720 --> 00:45:22,240 That's probably about the right sort of for her age. 896 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,480 So I'd be called nerve and go Matilda, you say that again. 897 00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,800 She she could work out the puzzle because it's all colour 898 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:29,760 based. And she'd be like, yeah, it's 899 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,240 five. And he'd be like, oh, it is 900 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:33,160 five. Oh my God. 901 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:38,120 So you know, she it was it was engaging from a she'd just come 902 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,080 and sit with me. As soon as it went on, she'd be 903 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,560 like, can we do the billiard room puzzle? 904 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:43,480 Because I love that one. Yeah, yeah. 905 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:45,800 And then she'd be like, oh, have you tried doing digging over 906 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,760 there for that thing? Have you tried that key in 907 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,240 there? So she started getting really 908 00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:51,200 engrossed as well and they started making their own notes. 909 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,200 And it's not multiplayer game. That's. 910 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,000 Brilliant. The fact that, yeah, your kids 911 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,960 are getting into that as well. And, you know, the fact that 912 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,400 you've got, and like I said, people, there were pages and 913 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,920 pages of notes. If a game can make you do that, 914 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,880 because a lot of times they say, oh, you should have no note and 915 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,680 pencil, you know, make maps or whatever, but you can't be 916 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,160 bothered because the game is good. 917 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,000 But you, you know, you're not going to do that. 918 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,800 But if a game's made you do that, then it's it's got you, 919 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,640 hasn't it? It's absolutely got a. 100% I 920 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,520 mean, it was that we we went and we went away for a break, just a 921 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,720 little city break in between. And like I said, I took the 922 00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:28,480 backbone and I mean, most of the time I plugged it into the iPad 923 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,200 because it's just slightly bigger screen and use the the 924 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,480 cloud gaming piece. I know I'm I'm diverging from 925 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,560 our conversation, but it was of an evening when you're sharing a 926 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,240 room with two young kids and your wife and the dog. 927 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,080 You know, there's not an awful lot you can do past, you know, 928 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,480 kind of half nine. You know, you've been you've had 929 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,760 played pool downstairs at the bar or whatever, and then you 930 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,640 kind of come out to the room. So to be able to turn that on 931 00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:52,960 and be absorbed by that while, you know, the missus is reading 932 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,080 and the other ones reading a book or she's drawing or 933 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:57,720 something. And then Matilda will come and 934 00:46:57,720 --> 00:47:00,840 sit down with me and kind of go, can we play blueprints? 935 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,520 And we, you know, was, was just a wonderful, joyful thing, you 936 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,520 know, and the people go, yo, yeah, but it's just a screen. 937 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,040 It's just like, but yeah, but it, that's an opinion, right? 938 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:12,760 And that's why this whole stuff's so. 939 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,360 Pac-Man was just a screen. Exactly. 940 00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:19,320 You know, sitting and making your way through Netflix is just 941 00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,880 a screen or reading on a Kindle is just a screen. 942 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:23,320 Yes, it is. But there's a level of 943 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,400 engagement. And it excited my daughter and 944 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,360 it, you know, it made me happy and it made me happy. 945 00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,080 It was something we could do together, you know, she started 946 00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:31,600 making her own notes around it and stuff. 947 00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:33,760 So yeah, it was, it was wonderful, you know, And then 948 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,640 one night at the end of the holiday, they were all dozing or 949 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,280 whatever, and I was just finishing off my run of the day 950 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,360 and I managed to open and find room 46. 951 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:49,880 Find Room 46 but it it works on you have a number of steps per 952 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:54,040 day and I got to the outer room before knocking room 46 and ran 953 00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:58,040 out of steps. Reset the entire mansion for the 954 00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:04,360 entire day following day and I was just like and then I and 955 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,240 then the worst thing happened and I realised there was 956 00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:09,080 something I could have done to extend my steps and allowed me 957 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,600 to get there and I didn't do it and I was just like I think 958 00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:12,680 about. It but the family's got you 959 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,280 thinking like that and you know that that's the thing. 960 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:16,800 It's like what it didn't. What? 961 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,600 It wasn't, I wasn't super angry and frustrated, which I have 962 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,280 been in the past when something, you know what I mean? 963 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,840 It was just like, I'll go again tomorrow, I'll try. 964 00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:28,960 But it took me another 10 days, not real days, but 10 game days, 965 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,400 which is yeah, in game days to finally do it. 966 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:36,600 Yeah, even though I knew all the solution because it's it's, it's 967 00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,680 the random number gods. Yeah, it was, it was, you know, 968 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,160 certain stuff had to happen. Starts that to align for me to 969 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,040 get that thing. And it took another 10 or 15 970 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,360 days for that to happen. Well, this is the thing. 971 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,560 I've briefly looked at it because I realised, and this 972 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,600 will be my point, that it's got a lot more depth than it looks 973 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,320 like it has. So I've decided quite quickly 974 00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,720 not to play until I knew I could dedicate time. 975 00:48:57,720 --> 00:49:00,640 So I started South of Midnight. But this is what I was going to 976 00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,760 say. If you've seen clips of it, 977 00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,360 you'll be you'll make the same mistake that I think a lot of 978 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,800 people have, say it looks extremely simple, but it's not, 979 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:12,080 is it? That's the thing. 980 00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:13,920 It has. Very clear. 981 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:18,640 Layers it is a it is a milfoy of a of a video game. 982 00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:23,360 It's you know, it's just insane the depths that it goes to. 983 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:27,160 And even today I've read again, just reading an article of 984 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:32,000 someone saying I didn't realise how much of an and this, this 985 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,680 might upset some people, but how much of an anti fascist game it 986 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:35,840 is. So there's there's another 987 00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:39,280 storage thread that I never found and a room that I never 988 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:43,400 found that tells a very different spin on the story that 989 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,520 you pieced together throughout. And I was like, God, I didn't 990 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,440 because I haven't read that that book in the game with that 991 00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,600 specific thing and the unredacted copy. 992 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:57,560 I was like, I didn't even know that like, so it's it, like I 993 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,920 said, I, I think completing the main, you know, credits roll 994 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:05,560 part of the game 25% and you've then got another 75% to solve 995 00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,760 all of these things. It's insane and I would I I 996 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,520 don't even want to know what the inside of the guy's head who 997 00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:15,080 created or girls head who created that game because it's 998 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,360 mind blowing. And this is it. 999 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,000 And at some point we'll probably also talk about like 1000 00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:25,120 individually like the the indie developers or the the solo 1001 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,080 developers, because there's been a couple of big ones in the 1002 00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,160 past, haven't they? Like Braid was the big one, 1003 00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:29,880 wasn't it? Where? 1004 00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:30,880 Oh, I. Love Braid? 1005 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,520 Yeah, and that was all done by one person, wasn't it? 1006 00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:35,040 Or at least you enjoyed the game. 1007 00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:39,520 Yeah, tunic was another one. Yeah, Tunic, yes, but the 1008 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,160 biggest one ever, the biggest one ever out of out of all of 1009 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:47,040 them was made by one person. And that was Minecraft, right? 1010 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:51,360 Yeah, mine not not created that. I mean, the man, again, I think 1011 00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,880 you have, you have to have a semblance of madness, right? 1012 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,520 But but he created that and now look, it's a bloody movie 1013 00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,880 starring Jack Black and Jason or Noah for Christ. 1014 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,480 Sake Well, well, there's a couple of games I've got 1015 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,600 specifically because they were done by one person doing it all. 1016 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,800 And there's a game, I think it's his company, he calls it 2 bad 1017 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:10,840 games. There's a game on the Xbox at 1018 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,560 least it's called Broken Minds. And you know, you can see it's 1019 00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,040 very a basic looking game because it is one person, but 1020 00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,680 the story is trying to tell in that game. 1021 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,640 I kind of admire that. You know, you can get these 1022 00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:27,280 people that, you know, we used to talk about like the, the 1023 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,000 bedroom coders in the day of the Commodore 64 in the Astro. 1024 00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,160 You're kind of getting that now still. 1025 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,440 And like, and I was talking about Xbox predominantly because 1026 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:36,800 that's been my platform over the years. 1027 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,960 They've always tried to have a big like indie presence on their 1028 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:42,440 marketplace as well, haven't they? 1029 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:44,960 Yeah, it's part of the joy of Game Pass is picking up 1030 00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,120 something that you would never have even taken a second look at 1031 00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,800 and going, my God, this is this is brilliant. 1032 00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,120 I mean, I don't know if you've played Tunic, but that's another 1033 00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,560 example of the phenomenal game that it's just it's kind of an 1034 00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:02,080 isometric Zelda type thing Fox, but it but the puzzles and the 1035 00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:06,440 depth of that again, they're not blueprints level, but they are 1036 00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:08,680 pretty mind blowing. Once you get your head around 1037 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:10,160 them, you're like, oh, that's how that works. 1038 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,600 That's what that chime there means, and I didn't know that 1039 00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,960 that meant and that arrow pointing there means this thing, 1040 00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,400 you know, and again, layer upon layer, yeah, they I mean these 1041 00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:22,040 these these people have so many more tools at their disposal 1042 00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,560 mount now to to be able to create these things. 1043 00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:29,440 I mean, in, in essence, No Man's Sky was was created by one 1044 00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,920 person, you know, right at the beginning, you know, kind of 1045 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,560 when it when it's a pre relation, you know, and, and, 1046 00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:40,080 and you look where that's taking him now, but he's persevered 1047 00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,760 with that for got 1012 years now. 1048 00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:48,760 And it's, it's just grown into this cult following and it's 1049 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,360 it's mind blowing and the. Absolutely generated. 1050 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,080 Yeah, yeah. But when you go back and you 1051 00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,400 look at it, I mean, my girls were interested in seeing it 1052 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:00,160 because they, they kind of wanted to play something that 1053 00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:04,360 was a bit less, you know, Roblox and. 1054 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,080 And they were just like, what? You can just get in a ship and 1055 00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:08,840 just go anywhere. And I'm like, yeah, well, 1056 00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,440 provided you've got the bits of your ship. 1057 00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,000 But because it's got this kind of exploration mode now, you can 1058 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:16,480 pretty much do that anyway. And this is all procedurally 1059 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,200 generated. It's sort of, you're like, this 1060 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,880 is mad. Yeah, but I had to this thing 1061 00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,400 and it's got its own biosphere and it's got its own plant life. 1062 00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:24,560 And it's like, and you're not. Wow. 1063 00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,760 This is it now. I've been having an internal 1064 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,520 argument with myself this whole episode now, and I think I can 1065 00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,040 formulate it. You know, I think I was saying 1066 00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,840 that I'm kind of frustrated that the big AAA companies don't 1067 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,280 innovate enough. Like for example, we had the 1068 00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,800 nemesis system in the Lord of the Rings games, didn't we? 1069 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,880 Yeah, Warner Brothers idea. What did they do? 1070 00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:47,480 Kind of amounted to nothing after it. 1071 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:51,320 They used it in a couple of games and I, I loved the idea of 1072 00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,040 that, but then it's just fizzled out. 1073 00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,760 And I'm thinking why aren't the bigger companies innovating like 1074 00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,440 that? But maybe we don't need them to 1075 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,520 maybe as we said, we just need them to put out the big popcorn, 1076 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:04,800 you know, blockbusters each year. 1077 00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:09,120 And these Indian and AA developers are the ones who are 1078 00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:13,520 giving us our our intrigue. You look at WBM and one of the 1079 00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,440 things that as a, as an umbrella company, a parent company 1080 00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,680 they're very good at and I've always been very good at is 1081 00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,520 litigation and, and the legal aspects of things, right? 1082 00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:23,480 I mean, these guys are in DC, right? 1083 00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,520 So, you know, they, they've always managed to shut people 1084 00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:30,240 out of, you know, specific characters, be it Superman or 1085 00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:32,240 Batman or whatever. He knew someone's laid a claim 1086 00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:33,640 to something they've always been very good at. 1087 00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:35,960 I mean, marvelous, I minded. They're all Disney now. 1088 00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,600 They did, they're the same at that, but but they did this same 1089 00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:40,560 thing with the nemesis system is my point, right? 1090 00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,000 So they've, they've essentially locked that piece of technology 1091 00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:46,120 out now until I think it's something like 20-30. 1092 00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,720 And you're like, what you could have done with that? 1093 00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:52,760 You put that in a, you know, any other game where you know, you, 1094 00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:56,320 you, you defeat someone and then they come back bigger and 1095 00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,840 stronger and they've got a grudge against you and they've 1096 00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,040 built an army to fight against or whatever it is. 1097 00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,120 You know, you put that in any other setting like Batman or 1098 00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:04,800 something like that, you're like, this is the same. 1099 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:06,960 But but no, do you know what I'm going to do? 1100 00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:09,000 I'm going to sit on it and lock it down and make sure no one 1101 00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,200 else can have access to it. It's academic. 1102 00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:14,000 It's my ball. Yeah, and it is a bit. 1103 00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,800 It is a bit, you know, it's mine, but what are you going to 1104 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:17,480 do with it? Nothing. 1105 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,080 But how does that help anybody, you know? 1106 00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,560 So, yeah, I just don't. I don't, I don't understand it, 1107 00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:27,320 but I don't, I think it does stifle innovation, which I think 1108 00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:29,440 was your point, right. I think it just, it just stops 1109 00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:31,880 people from wanting to do cool stuff unless they can kind of 1110 00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,720 keep it to themselves or or keep it niche in kind of the indie 1111 00:55:34,720 --> 00:55:36,360 world and go, well, I'll do it that way then. 1112 00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:38,080 And. Then they can just buy that 1113 00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:41,040 indie developer and then a new one will come along which. 1114 00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,040 Is what they do, right? Which is what's saying Microsoft 1115 00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:44,560 are now doing. I mean, that that was the 1116 00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:46,080 realization they had a few years ago. 1117 00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,480 It's like, well, screw it. If I can't create this stuff 1118 00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,760 myself, I'll just buy the people who are doing it. 1119 00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:53,000 I'll throw money at them. Yeah. 1120 00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:55,960 Right. Was there anything else around 1121 00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:01,320 the AAA AA Indy racket? No, I I think we've talked, we 1122 00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:06,200 talked a lot about, you know, a lot of different aspects and and 1123 00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,120 our personal opinions on them. But the the thing I would say is 1124 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,640 look, there's so much out there that everyone is so support for 1125 00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:14,560 choice. Just enjoy what you love, man. 1126 00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:17,680 Like it doesn't, you know, it doesn't matter what platform, 1127 00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:19,840 what game, what, what genre it does. 1128 00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:21,880 Who gives? Who cares, right? 1129 00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,680 It's your thing. Play it your way, right? 1130 00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,560 So do do what you want. And you know, I'm just, I'm just 1131 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:32,400 lucky and privileged that I get to live in a time where I can do 1132 00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,840 this right and in, in, in whichever way I choose to do it. 1133 00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:37,720 And and a great friend to talk to about as well. 1134 00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,400 Oh, well, thank you very much. But yeah, echo exactly what you 1135 00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,000 say. Yeah, there are courses for 1136 00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:44,480 everyone. You might not like that course 1137 00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,960 move on to the next. That's that's exactly it. 1138 00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:50,480 But let's, let's enjoy it. And yeah, we're going to have a 1139 00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,320 lot more of these conversations. Indeed. 1140 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,560 So before we close out, what are you looking forward to? 1141 00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,520 So I probably spoiled already, but I'm I'm very much looking 1142 00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,800 forward to do medieval. See, I'm not afraid of triple. 1143 00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:04,760 A Doom. The Dark Ages. 1144 00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:06,320 Doom Dark Ages. Sorry. 1145 00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:07,160 Yeah. Doom Dark Ages. 1146 00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:09,040 Yeah. So I'm, I'm not looking forward 1147 00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:10,160 to it. I can't even name it correctly. 1148 00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:15,040 So I'm looking forward to Doom Dark Ages and then I think I'm 1149 00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:18,000 just going to I'm just getting my oblivion on at the moment. 1150 00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:22,120 I, I, you know, in terms of there's, there's not look, I'll 1151 00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:25,640 be lying if I wasn't super excited about ghosts of your 1152 00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,960 Thai because I love ghosts of Sushima. 1153 00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,680 And you know, one of the joys of being able to play multi 1154 00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,160 platform is that, you know, I've got a selection. 1155 00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,880 I can I can go to Mario Kart World is, you know, I'm 1156 00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,200 obviously going to be smashing that with the kids come June the 1157 00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:46,720 5th, but imminently one of the things I have done which and and 1158 00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,040 it was a bit this is a bit of a test bed for me because I know 1159 00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,880 you're a massive fan. I've never been able to deal 1160 00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:57,080 with the genre, but I have downloaded far Obscurus. 1161 00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:58,480 That's. Mine, I was going to say. 1162 00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:04,840 So I because I've seen such good things about it and I am and 1163 00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:08,440 what I want to try. All right, genuinely, I mean 1164 00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:12,080 this without without bullshit, and I genuinely want to try and 1165 00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:17,400 enjoy a turn based combat because I think the last time I 1166 00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,280 enjoyed one of those, no, I can't think of the time. 1167 00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:24,680 I've never enjoyed it. So I I I'm, I'm really I I 1168 00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,320 really do want to give it a go and and put everything into it. 1169 00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:29,240 So it's going to be I'm going to have kind of a side by side. 1170 00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,600 I'm going to be playing oblivion for a bit of the longevity 1171 00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:33,440 piece. And then I'm going to, I'm going 1172 00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,600 to dip into to Clara Obscura and see how it'll go. 1173 00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:38,880 Both good choices. That that's what I was going to 1174 00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:39,760 say. Pretty much, yeah. 1175 00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,560 For me, between now and in our next episode, it'll it'll 1176 00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:46,920 absolutely be like oblivion. Keep going at that. 1177 00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:49,520 Hopefully I've done all the other factions by then. 1178 00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,760 But yeah, the one game I'm really looking forward to is 1179 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:57,000 yeah, Expedition 33. It's it came up on my radar 1180 00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,120 quite late. You then mentioned it to me. 1181 00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:01,960 I think you said you thought I'd be playing it. 1182 00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,760 And if I hadn't have started or if if Oblivion hadn't have 1183 00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:07,560 released, I absolutely would have done. 1184 00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:11,840 But like you said, I love those turn based combat games that, 1185 00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:16,400 you know, like the the old, the RPGs, but also it just, I've 1186 00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,440 I've tried to stay away from it, but I've seen a few videos 1187 00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:23,040 online. It just looks, it looks crazy 1188 00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:25,520 and incredible at the same time. So yeah. 1189 00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:29,080 I, I think it's got the one, the reason I, I kind of went long 1190 00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:31,840 and he would go is because every single thing I'd seen about it, 1191 00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:36,080 it be a review or a kind of just a passing comment was it had a 1192 00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:39,400 beautiful depth of story. And when we talked about, you 1193 00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:41,800 know, talked a lot about AA games and and a lot of what they 1194 00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:48,640 do really well is to that story, be it twisted, weird, unusual in 1195 00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:50,720 an engaging way. And and I was like, well, I'll 1196 00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,440 have a bit of that thing because I I love that kind of drama and, 1197 00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,200 you know, piece that goes alongside of really well put 1198 00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:57,520 together and thought through a game. 1199 00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:02,520 But I also just remember what's coming up is revenge of the 1200 01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:06,520 savage planet as well, which was the savage planet was a cracking 1201 01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:07,720 game. I don't know if you played it 1202 01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:08,760 was life. Yes. 1203 01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,080 Revenge is that they they put into third person. 1204 01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,200 So that's coming out. I think it's next month, might 1205 01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,360 be in May, towards the end of May or or early June. 1206 01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,040 So that that as well as another one for me. 1207 01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:20,720 But yeah, because I didn't want to have the same 2 as you. 1208 01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:25,360 That was all right otherwise, otherwise the next cast could be 1209 01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,840 a very boring cast. Did you enjoy it? 1210 01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:29,600 Yeah, it was great. Tell me about this bit. 1211 01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:33,320 The beauty about you though, is you've got all the platforms 1212 01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:35,640 pretty much, so at some point you'll be talking about games 1213 01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:39,600 that I don't have, so. This is true and I will make an 1214 01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:42,840 effort to play a bit more on the PS5I have intentionally 1215 01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:46,800 downloaded RoboCop Rogue City. So I will. 1216 01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:50,840 Be I will be having a go at that just because we can't go a 1217 01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:54,360 podcast without mentioning RoboCop in one shape or form. 1218 01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:57,080 I've played that very good game. But yeah, and the other thing 1219 01:00:57,080 --> 01:01:00,320 I'm going to look forward to, Dan, is recording Episode 3 with 1220 01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:02,120 you, so. Yeah, yeah. 1221 01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:04,560 I mean, now I'm past the difficult first album, but yeah, 1222 01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:05,400 the second album. Sorry. 1223 01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,320 We can, we can go for, we can go for #3. 1224 01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,480 Yeah, right. Anything you want to say, Dan, 1225 01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:14,000 other than everything you have just done? 1226 01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:17,800 No, it's just I, I think I've talked far too much, which I 1227 01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:19,800 think that's at the end of the last podcast as well. 1228 01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:25,880 But yeah, look, just hopefully we've helped add some context to 1229 01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:28,200 some of the things we've talked about, particularly around kind 1230 01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:30,200 of double versus triple versus Indy. 1231 01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,160 And it's not a versus, let's be honest. 1232 01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:34,280 It's a a just enjoy it. Right. 1233 01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,320 Exactly. So, But yeah, and I think we're 1234 01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:40,880 going to be doing a bit of a, you know, what topic would you 1235 01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:43,640 like to hear about and putting out a bit of a, a bit of a vote, 1236 01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:45,360 right? This is what I was going to say. 1237 01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,840 So firstly, thanks for listening. 1238 01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:51,080 If you've got any comments, you want to weigh in on the debate 1239 01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:55,520 about double AB, Triple AB indeed, if you've got anything 1240 01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:57,320 you want to say on that, anything we haven't said, 1241 01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:59,280 anything you want to talk about the games we've played or 1242 01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:03,440 looking forward to drop us a note at Casting views for now. 1243 01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:07,600 And I'm saying for now, because Dan and I have got plans, so 1244 01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:11,600 this pod will evolve over time. Just give us a chance. 1245 01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:15,600 But yeah, so for now. And yeah, I see what we want to 1246 01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:19,200 do is we've already got a long list of talking points that you 1247 01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:20,440 and I want to talk about, don't we? 1248 01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:23,760 So we will probably start putting them out as polls to 1249 01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,000 see. Yeah, basically to see what 1250 01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:27,480 people want to want to hear first. 1251 01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:29,720 So yeah, keep an eye out for those. 1252 01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:34,080 So, Dan, pleasure as always. And you, mate, Yeah, thanks for 1253 01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:37,200 listening everybody. And keep an eye out for the next 1254 01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:48,960 episode of Gaming Views Dan. And Dan with the gaming flair 1255 01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:54,920 Pixel Dreams and Worlds to share joystick tails and button cues. 1256 01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:57,480 Welcome to gaming Views level.