Dan and Dan with the gaming flair Pixel Dreams and Worlds to
share joystick tales and button cues.
Welcome to Gaming Views. Level up, we're on the go.
Power of. Silly audio flow from the Rachel
to the new reviews. It's a life of games with gaming
views. Hello and welcome to Episode 3.
Yes, that's right, three of gaming views with your host, me
Dan. And me, Dan?
I should just copy that bit. We could repeat that.
Dan and Dan, you can just do both voices if you want.
Episode 3, Dan, look at that. I know it's gone quickly, isn't
it? I'm, I'm excited about this one.
You threw me a bit of a challenge.
It was a bit of a curveball. So you know, my memory not as
good as it as it used to be. I had to troll the databanks
from many years ago to come up with something.
But I, I, I think we've got it. I think I'm there.
I don't think it's ever a good, good idea to to criticise the
the people that interact with us.
But no, don't blame me, blame the people that voted for the
subject that we picked today. Always I I've always blame
someone else instead of you or me.
Yeah, so as I said, welcome to episode 3.
So we are still relatively new, but if you heard last week's
episode, we are going to talk about all things gaming and
we're going to have a main talking point each week.
Although this week I've I've thrown you a curveball again.
I've got 3. Really.
Yeah, this week we put it out to the people on socials, I think.
I can't remember the topics we gave them, but the ultimate
winner was arcades. Now I've got some fond memories
of them. We don't really have them
anymore, do we you? Say that, but go on holiday with
children somewhere near the seaside and they will absolutely
find an arcade. My wallet will tell you so.
All right, so we've got stories to hear then.
So yeah, before we get on to that, we're going to start off
with what we've been playing. So yeah, what have you been
playing since we last recorded? So when we last recorded, I was,
I was, I was neck deep in blueprints.
But I, I kind of took a little bit of a step back from it
because I think my brain was so fried after achieving quite a
bit of it and then realising it wasn't quite a bit of it.
So since then, obviously Oblivion and remasters come out.
I played a little bit of that just for the nostalgic kick.
Not as much as you, I think, and it's fair to say, but mainly
because I became a little bit, I call it re obsessed because I
was originally obsessed when I looked at my my kind of steam
camp timer on on no rest for the wicket and realised I'd actually
put nearest damn it, 100 hours into it when it first launched
an early access about a year ago.
And they've just launched the breach update, which came out on
the 30th. Yeah, I've just been pumping
hour after hour into that. So I haven't had a lot of other
time for anything else. We talked about Clara Obscure
Expedition 33 and I, I did start, but it was quite late at
night and I managed about 20 minutes of running around the
harbour. And that was that was that was
it. So, so that that's the next one
for me. I'm going to, I'm going to pick
up the controller again on that in there in, in a few days and,
and see where I get to. How about you?
I just want to pick something up you said, actually, before I go
onto mine. No rest for the wicked.
So for people listening, Dan, you've been talking to me about
this game from months and you've mentioned it.
I remember listening back to the last episode, you talked about
it on there as well. And it's a game I'm really
looking forward to, but I really don't know much too much about
it. So did you say it's done by?
Is it the people that did the Ori games?
Yeah. Moon Studios, yes, essentially,
yeah. They, they, these guys have
studio led by a guy called Thomas Marla.
And essentially it's just been a bit of a passion project for
them. They just decided that for a
long time they wanted to create an action RPG.
I guess you'd call it a little bit souls like or souls like.
Maybe it's not it's it's hard, but it's not impossible.
So for me to say that and pick that up given my dispassion for
souls like games, is that something?
But it's it's kind of it's got a very unique, almost isometric
camera angle with this kind of special zoom layer that they
created for it. It's almost got this hand
painted aesthetic and it's beautiful.
It's, it's a stunning game and, and the the gameplay loop I
think is the thing that keeps drawing me back because it's not
just the, you know, combat and the looting.
I think there's, there's quite a lot of it that that revolves
around kind of building and crafting.
And, and it's got this lovely little kind of gameplay loop
where, you know, I've I've now created this pattern in the
first area where I know this run that I'll do to pick up certain
crafting materials and, you know, take out certain bounties
and enemies and things. So it's just got this lovely
little thing and this, this, this update is essentially
doubled the size of the game. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's in
early access. It's it's only on Steam.
It is launching on all consoles. So it's going to be, you know,
kind of a big launch when it gets to version 1.0.
But the thing they did with with this one, the reason I've played
it quite a bit this time round is because they, they reset the
realms. So you, you start on a realm and
they reset the realms this time. So you're essentially starting
from scratch again right from the beginning of the story,
which is kind of I was a bit frustrated with because I
thought, oh God, it was quite hard the beginning of the game
when you're kind of essentially just a hobo wandering around
with a stick. But actually, because I knew and
understood the mechanics. And the thing I love about the
studio is they are so quick to react to feedback.
It's becoming more frequent because of the, the popularity
and vocalism of people who play the, the games and stuff.
But they're really quick. Like they, they've released 2
hot fixes since the 30th now. So what, we're like 5 days in
and they've fixed, you know, certain bits and pieces around
the game, which, which frustrated people.
So yeah, just phenomenal. I genuinely look forward to when
people get a chance to play out on, you know, bigger platforms
and, and kind of because I, I do think it's going to be a, a big
hit. Well, I've been looking forward
to that. So yeah, no rest for the wicked
keeper. An eye and an ear out for that.
For me, it's been, it's been a bit of a mixed week gaming
because I was playing Oblivion and I've taken a break from that
because I I'd hit the dark brotherhood.
So I completed that quest line, completed the mages Guild.
And while I enjoy doing those, I feel like I needed to go back to
the main quest. But then the problem was, and I
said to you yesterday morning when when we met up, I turned
into a vampire. I didn't realise I'd.
Contract. And so there's a, there's
obviously a quest to cure it, but it's, I, I had memories of
it being a real pain in the neck.
And you have to do this, go get this, go get this.
And then you have to get like 5 grand soul gems.
And I thought I'd bought 5. I'd go all the way back to the
person. I only had four.
So I had to go find another one. Anyway, I was getting really
frustrated and I saw there's actually a really quick way to
cure it. There is.
There was a bit of DLC that was released after the original
years ago, but it's part of this package now.
There's a cave. All you have to do is go there,
you pick some salt up off a wall and touch a pillow and it kills
it instantly. It's almost like they had a lot
of complaints about how difficult and stressful getting
rid of vampirism was and built in a a quick fix.
So, so I'm no longer a vampire, but I'm also no longer playing
it because I've, I've taken a break.
Now the main game I started was Expedition 33 and I'm absolutely
loving it. You know the conversation we had
last week about the developers, Apparently this was done by a
group of 30 and a lot of them had never coded a game I think
before. Wow.
If I, if I read that right, it was people that were, I saw a
tweet today and I, I meant to, to keep it, but I think they
were bored with what they were being asked to do in the jobs
they were in. And so we've come together and
have coded this and it's a great looking game.
It's I remember you saying in the last episode, you didn't
particularly get on with the turn based games, but I think
you'll get on with this. I think this feels different, a
little bit of souls like in there in that if you rest, the
enemies respawn and there's a definite pattern to the enemies.
But what I'm loving about this is the combat.
It's got a parry and a dodge system.
The parry is really difficult because you have to be perfect,
but if you do, you do a counter attack and it can be really
powerful. And when you get it right,
there's just that satisfaction, you know?
Yeah, it's a nice little hook. Yeah, so it's keeping me, that's
keeping me hooked at the moment. But the other game, I started
another game because I'm going to be guesting on another pod
talking about it was, and it's a game I remember talking to you
about about 15 years ago. Bioshock.
I'm replaying Bioshock. Oh.
My God, what a what an amazing game.
And that and the sequel, to be fair, I mean, just, yeah.
Would you kindly, I mean, you know, just Ken Levine again, you
know, I think a lot of these things you need to separate art
from the artist and that everyone has an opinion, right.
But, you know, his work is, is unparalleled, I think, in terms
of what he's done. And, and Bioshock 2 was, was
phenomenal. He just built on everything from
the predecessor story wise, you know, the lighthouses theme
that, you know, many worlds. I it's just brilliant.
Absolutely. I'm really looking forward to
his next game actually. Yeah, because that's that's in
development, isn't it? Yeah, I remember when I started
playing this, I thought, yeah, I can't wait to mention this
because I remember talking to you about it when we were
working together all those years ago.
And yeah, it's it's a great game.
I like the second. I even enjoyed Infinite.
And yeah, this is the remastered.
And the only the only story I'll tell about this quickly is so I
was on APCI was gaming on APC at the time, but I wasn't 1 to get
the the best PC and I wasn't one to upgrade it.
And it was really starting to struggle towards the end of its
time. The demo for Bioshock came out
and you know it's, it's literally the beginning of the
game where you're in the plane, you crash into the ocean and
it's on fire. My PC kept crashing and couldn't
handle the flames in the water. So I couldn't actually even play
the demo. So it was about a year late when
I finally got the Xbox. I got the Xbox and there were
three games really that I really wanted with it that I'd gotten
released. One was GTA4, one was Mass
Effect, and the other was Bioshock.
They they were my first three games.
Yeah, but, but I got fond memories of Bioshock.
I think it was one of those, you know, a bit like Half Life at
the time. When you kind of start playing
it, you realise it's, you know, you get a certain amount and you
realise it's not what you thought it was.
What's weird is I replayed them probably about two or three
years ago and it's, you know, with the innovations in how you
control, how you move, how you, you know, dual wield all these
things. It it feels very clunky.
The first one again, I don't know if you you felt that when
you kind of went back to it and the switch in between.
I can't remember what they call them in again, but but it but it
does feel a bit clunky and a bit unwieldy.
But yeah, I mean, looks this is a big Daddy's just a just a
genius, you know, thing to yeah. And how many games now have
vending machines as an option to to?
Pick up the, you know, Yeah, yeah.
And even the hacking mini game which I forgot which was back in
the day, was a game in itself. That's pipes is the.
Yeah, Pipes. Yeah, Pipes.
Yeah, that was a fully fledged game.
They've got it as a hacking mini game.
Exactly. Oh, this is this is the
evolution of gaming. Yeah.
So that's what we've been playing.
We'll go on to the main talking point shortly, but there were
two things that have happened this week.
Well, by the time we listen to this, it'll be last week.
The first one was a quick one I wanted to throw at you was GTA 6
being delayed until May 2026. Now, the only reason I, I wanted
to raise this for you is 1. Obviously it's a big story.
It's a big story in the gaming world.
But yeah, it was reported all on mainstream news.
Like I was listening to the talk sport radio channel and on the
news, it was one of the headlines on the news.
My wife messaged me. She sent me the BBC article
saying did you know Grand Theft Auto?
It's been delayed and I know gaming has hit the meteor a
number of times, but it feels weird that delayed game is
making the national press. Yeah, I mean, this is this is
one of the few games, maybe the only game that can move markets.
I mean, it's it's insane when you think about GTA5, you know
that that sold a billion copies in three days, a billion, right?
I mean talk talk about Clara Obscura Exposition 33 a million
copies in three days, right and that was a big success for them
right, a bit a billion. So so this is a game that, you
know, that that really does can move markets and and I think,
you know, look, let's be honest, I think because it was always
pinned as a full 25 release date, a lot of the industry has
breed the sigh of release. Really certainly those who were
going for maybe a game of the year award because, you know,
they kind of kind of there's no chance.
I was reading an article and they're basically saying, you
know, it's any release around the time of GTA is a bit like,
you know, I think the quote was throwing a bucket of water at
tsunami. You know, you've got no hope of
getting any traction across media, across anything else in
terms of your game when this when the hype is so big around
that release. And that could be, you know,
months either side. You know, it's nice they pinned
the date on it, you know, the 26th of May next year.
So, you know, I think a lot of people looking forward to it,
but I think a lot of developers now also be scrambling to kind
of go, oh, crap, I was going to because there's some big games
next year, right? So then now they kind of go,
where am I going to move to? What am I going to do with mine?
Do I bring it forward? Do I put it back?
So, yeah, I think it's, you know, it's it's such a big
thing. And I don't think we noticed,
you know, we talked about this briefly when we were chatting
the other day. And then, you know, coming from
such a small indie developer based in Scotland, you know, to
what it is now. It's, it's this beer moth that
just takes over the industry and takes over, like you said,
mainstream media. And when it, when some news
about it leaks, like when the trailer dropped or when the, you
know, the, the release date moves, it's, it's insane.
It's like it's a, you know, a Star Wars movie or a you know,
it's, it's, it's just crazy. I wonder what it must be like to
be a developer or in the company where everything you're doing is
under scrutiny like this, Because as I said on the gaming
press, absolutely I expected it. I just didn't expect it on the
BBC and other BBC. Guardian it was it was all over
the place. I mean, it's and, and that, you
know, you're right, scrutiny I think is the right word.
There was, you know, I think, I think there was a lot of
perspective and views certainly over the last year or so on the
behaviours of the studios. And then I remember it must have
been couple of months ago now when they said that they would
ask all employees to return to the office five days a week
again, you know, and that became a thing.
And then they started looking into the practices of, you know,
crunch and things like that in the office.
But then they, you know, they publicly release some of their
employee benefits to kind of go, no, no, no, don't worry, it's
okay. You know, they get double time
off for any time they've worked over.
There aren't any, you know, have to work overtime policies and
things like this, which is really weird move for a game
developer, right? I mean, most of them.
I mean, if you're Ubisoft, you just sit there and deny
everything. That's what I mean.
You know, it's really weird for for them to have to justify what
they do and how they approach it.
But you know, I love it. And the other thing I did read I
think was they're talking about it potentially being the 1st
$100 video game. That nicely links to the next
story, but the the one thing I'll say before move on is so
yeah, if it does come out next year, it'll have been 13 years
before or between that and GTA5. So you know last week where we
were talking about the cookie cut releases and FIFA 23242513
years between SQL. It's mad, right?
I mean, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's it's a long time, but then,
you know, GTA Online is still one of, if not the biggest
online game only it's huge, you know, and you'll regularly see
GTA5 pop up across, you know, PlayStation Plus across.
But Game Pass, I think is back on Game Pass now, you know, So
you know, you'll regularly see it keep cycling round.
And it's got this, this cultural hook that people just kind of
are obsessed with. The story didn't click too much
for me, to be fair. I mean, I, I enjoyed what I
enjoyed, but I think there's, I, I obviously maybe I'm not his
target audience, but I, I don't know.
But I, I just, it didn't click so much for me.
But then you read such a furor around it and you're kind of
like, oh, maybe I should be, maybe I should be getting into
it. And so you do.
Yeah, I I'll buy the next one. I'll play it.
I'll see. You know I will.
I'll have a go at it. Of course I will.
Absolutely. I love the games and and yeah,
we'll be, we'll be doing an episode the night of release, I
think. Let's do this do live stream.
Well, there you go. There you go, There you go.
Right. So we're going to move on
quickly to the next story. And I said about the price.
So this was the other story that kind of caused ruffles was
Microsoft basically saying that Xbox are right raising their
prices around the world. So just to to highlight it.
So in Europe the Xbox Series X will go up by 20 lbs or $50.00.
So up to 499 lbs to 5 and €599. The Series S will cost 299 which
is an increase of £50 which I I didn't realise it was that low
to be honest. In the US the Xbox Series X will
cost 500 and 9999 which is up $100 and the Series S will go up
to 300 and 7999 which is $80.00. So they're then talking about
the price of games being $80. Now this is what it says, it
says on this article, UK and I'm, I'm quoting Eurogamer here
at the moment. UK price TBA.
I've seen it say sort of 6070 lbs, which is currently what
they are here, you know, and you, I was going to say you've
been around long enough like me as well that it's usually we get
a one to one ratio, don't we? So when people say, oh, $80.00
will only be 60 lbs or 65, no 88 lbs, it'll be 80 lbs because we
often get the 1:00 to 1. So what's your view?
Because I know Sony have done a couple of prices in, in the
past, price rises and Microsoft have held back.
But yeah, this has caused a bit of a an uproar on social media
for a day. Yeah, I think, you know, and
let's put it in a bit of perspective, right?
I mean, I think in the US this puts it on almost a level
playing for cost for cost with the kind of the PS5 Pro, right,
which is generationally, right. It's only a .5 bump, but it's
still an exceptional machine. That's that's you know, now more
powerful. So if we're talking to power to
power thing it, it feels a bit weird that you're kind of going
now pay $600.00 for a four be generous 4 year old machine.
And I'm kind of like, look, it's, it's good.
But what's the console cycle now?
6-7 years maybe. So you're into the, the, the
kind of third trimester now of, of it's life to go and kind of
bump it up and look, there'll be lots of stuff in the press and
you know, look, it's tariffs, it's this, it's that it, but is
it, you know, I mean, our relationship with where
manufacturing's taking place, these things hasn't particularly
soured. I get kind of get the US
argument. So it's, it feels like a very
odd move, but it feels like, and this is my perspective, no one
else's. It feels very much like Nintendo
have just given everyone permission to go a bit nuts on
pricing. Right.
With the switch to that, that's that's what it feels like.
It's like, well, the switch to is going to be crazy money for
for what it is right, an underpowered, you know, handheld
machine, Lovely, beautiful. Got it on pre-order, said that.
So I'm not, I'm not knocking it and it does what it does very
well, but it's not comparative and it's an awful lot of money.
Again, still cheaper than a Series XI, get it.
But then the Elite controller or the the Elite Switch controller
also retailing at, you know, $100 or whatever it is, it's all
gone a little bit crazy. And I think the timing couldn't
have been better for them with the whole, you know, policies
and tariffs and things kind of going well.
I've got an excuse to do it now. What we're not seeing is what
are their margins because that's the interesting thing, right?
Look, I don't think Microsoft got much to lose though in
Furness because their sales are historically very good console
wise anyway. And like we've spoken about
before, their markets, they're moving to a more around, you
know, Game Pass and kind of what that looks like.
So it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
I think what what I think the impact for me is what that means
for the next generation and potentially what that's going to
hit us with. Yeah, that's a really good point
because you know, the rumours are that they're already talking
like the next two years we might see the next generation.
And yeah, you're right, putting up the price of a 4-5 year old
console feels a bit weird when you've got the next generation.
So is it just to make the price rise to that next generation
seem more reasonable, the price bump now?
Or is it to make the handheld that potentially could come out
seem more reasonable? Maybe.
Because because that's the thing, right?
I mean, there's a lot of talk and a lot of rumour and
conjecture around, you know, is there a handheld in works?
We've seen some of this stuff with the collaboration with Asus
potentially happening. So are they actually positioning
themselves to go, well, don't worry about spending, you know,
£600 on a, or £500 on a, you know, Series X when you can get
a handheld for 450. You know, it's I, I do wonder if
there's a little bit of game. Look, these companies aren't
stupid, right? They've made megabucks in terms
of what they do. And Xbox marketing particularly
becomes things like Game Pass is phenomenal.
So, you know, and PlayStation are very good at selling the
hardware and it's a great kit, you know, so there's that.
They've kind of got this balance between the two of them.
So yeah, it'll be, it'll be very interesting to see how this
story plays out. I think over certainly as we
move into holiday season. So throughout kind of October,
November, December, particularly with the absence of something
like GTA6 to boost the market, because that's what everyone's
waiting on, right? They, there were two big things
this year that everyone was waiting for.
It was the, it was the switch to from a hardware perspective and
it was GTA6, right? So industry wise, one of those
things has come along and kind of gone, yeah, we're launching,
but we're quite expensive and the other one's gone now.
I'm waiting. So I, I think it's going to be
interesting, you know, back into the year.
Well, could I throw something else at you as well, which is
my, what's the word? The pessimistic bit in my mind?
Well, not pessimistic. It's probably the wrong word.
But I love, I love balance down. I love your pessimism.
You'd be glass half empty. Not pessimistic, people want to
say conspiratorial but so they're saying it's the first
party games that going up to $80.00.
Now we know first party games from Microsoft are now appearing
on PlayStation and we know for. Today, right, Gears of War
Remastered just announced about a couple of hours ago, yeah.
That felt weird seeing an advert for Gears of War and it said
PlayStation 5. Yeah, very strange.
I guess what I'm saying though is the price rise is mainly
going to affect the other platforms, right?
Because these games are going to be day one Game pass, right?
So if one was being a little bit digging into it, are we seeing
the effect of that to fund Game Pass and the funding of these
games? Yeah, the other, the other
platforms, I guess is what I'm saying.
The other like PlayStation owners funding that.
Yeah, I, I, but look, potentially, I think that's
pessimistic. I think it's probably more
realistic, I think, you know, but what, what's Sony's
answered? Because we know that they very
rarely do day one releases in PS plus, right?
So are they then stuck between a rock and a hard place to go?
Well, if I'm, if they're at $80.00 or they're at, you know,
standard, do I move to $80.00 knowing that I can't compete
with day one release or do I then go and move to day one
release? I mean, who wouldn't want to see
ghosts of Yottay or whatever, you know, day one.
I mean, that would be my dream of dream because then I'm not,
you know, my, my £15 a month or whatever is really well spent.
So, yeah, I mean, I, I think it's realistic to assume that
maybe there's a little bit of that there.
And with the link to GTA, because as you said, you know,
the rumours persist that it is going to be the first 100 LB
game, not even dollar I think the same £100 game I think.
Yeah, yeah. What it's like for like, right?
Sorry. It's like for like, I mean, you
say for $100 in the US, it's going to be 100 LB here because
people can't do maths. And yeah, yeah.
And you know, I'm saying here at the moment that I tend not to
buy games full price like when they come out because for me,
not £5560 just feels a bit too much.
So I tend to wait and wait a little bit.
You might, you might have to wait six months depending on the
game, but I will then get them when they're reduced.
The more they go up, it's either going to take longer to come
down or they're going to take a bigger hit.
Or are they putting these bigger prices on to say right, well,
after a month we'll, we'll reduce it or after a few months
we'll reduce it and, and get more interest.
I don't know. But bottom line is £100 for a
game is a lot. It's it's a lot.
It is, it is a huge amount. And you know, I think, you know,
this is a, the video game economy was, was barely
recovering from kind of COVID and you know, everything that
happened then, you know, so, you know, I think there was a 4%
decline year on year in 23. So we the numbers at the end of
last year, which I think the industry was about 164 billion,
which was about a 4% decline on the previous year.
So you know, as an industry, they are very much kind of
struggling at the moment. I think maybe there's a bit of,
you know, people a bit of apathy from maybe the younger
generations around video games and playing and things like
that. Like, you know, and it's we said
before, it's generally people with disposable income like you
and me who who get them and ironically don't have time to
play them. So yeah, I mean, you know, you
and I, I think this is where the beauty of this can pays off,
right? Because you you are a happy to
sit and wait and kind of do something, whereas I'm a day one
purchase, you know, must have, you know, and I always have been
a with any bit of tech, you know, I've got to get the first
phone, I've got to get the first diss.
I've got, you know, so, so I think that, you know, it plays
in our favour because obviously you can talk about the the
oldest stuff that you've only just opened your eyes to.
And I can I can say that that the newer stuff set, you know,
but yeah, I mean, look, I just hope that whatever happens, the
industry continues. And I think one of the beauties
of, of gaming and one of the reasons we love it so much is
that, you know, those things are around forever, right?
They're not going anywhere. They'll just, they'll just take
on a different form. It won't be an $80.00 game in a
year's time or even even six months time.
It'll be on Game Pass or it'll be on, you know, PS Plus at some
point. I mean, I can't remember the
number of games I've kind of gone.
Why did I buy that? Because it's, you know, eight
months later and it's on bloody Games Pass, you know, Game Pass
and, you know, and the number of times I've kicked myself and
wished I was a bit more like you because it's just sitting here
gathering. I've got a stack of games next
to me right now. You know, literally one of them
is still on the cellophone. But but I haven't, you know,
picked up and played because they ended up appearing on Game
Pass or I played them and they're now on Game Pass or or
PS Plus. So.
Well, yeah, The thing is, look, the new Mass Effect comes out
tomorrow. I'm buying it tomorrow, right.
But I guess what I'm saying, though, is the price ceiling of
these, that it's never going to come down.
So we're getting to a point where, yeah, where, you know,
for years we've just still seen this as a it's a hobby for us
gamers. It's hobby.
But we, we, we kind of have forgotten that there's that
whole industry behind it. And they're now seeing that this
is probably the biggest industry, you know, and in terms
of entertainment, you know, that they can now start, yeah,
pushing that boundary. So it's going to be interesting.
I think the next 18 months will be be quite fascinating,
especially when the new new hardware comes out I think.
Yeah, yeah. I think it's, it's all to play
for, for these guys. So, you know, and, and there
isn't anyone in, in competition. They're they're pretty much a
monopoly between, you know, Nintendo, Sony and, and
Microsoft. I mean, who else is there, you
know, playing in that paddling pool?
And there's not not many people, right.
PC gaming's come the next closest thing and some would
argue infinitely better, but it doesn't have the mass appeal
that that these things have. Yeah, but yeah, 8 lbs a game.
See, watch his space, watch his space.
And there's one other thing I'm going to throw and I'm just
going to I'm not, I'm probably not even going to let you
comment on it. I saw a tweet, you know, not
from, I don't think anything official, but said that Half
Life 3. Is in that I'm not is.
In a playable state? No, It's not only in
development, but it's in a playable state.
I knew I knew you were going to come in with something sideways.
I'm not going to comment. We'll we'll say that for another
one. I have read yes, I went down a
rabbit hole. Let's put.
It that Dan's Half Life 3 confirmed that is that means no,
Yeah, Watch his face. Watch his face on that.
We'll, we'll, we'll talk about it at some point, right.
So the people have spoken the topic this week, the main topic
is going to be arcades. Now, I guess the first question
for you, Dan, is if I say arcades to you, what?
What does that bring back for you?
Two things I think summer holidays at the seaside.
I spent an awful lot of time on the South Coast with but my dad
and my mum in seaside resorts. I guess it was kind of the go to
holiday. I didn't spend an awful lot of
time abroad when I was a kid. And so from a nostalgic trip, it
was always, you know, going there and the first question
would be, is there an arcade? You know, and you couldn't jump
on Google Maps and find out, right you.
Have to go hunting for. These things, right?
So you, you have to find if there was one there.
And so there was that. There's that whole rush of
excitement knowing that you're going to get an opportunity to
play something that wasn't, you know, on an Atari or on AZX
Spectrum. That was, you know, essentially
the next generation of video games.
That's kind of what it was like, you know, as long as it wasn't a
kind of ratty old one that had a couple of broken Pac-Man
machines. And and the second was I was
lucky from not the word I I was in in my hometown.
There was a video game shop which was quite unique I think
for when I think about it now, you know, at that time that kind
of exclusively sold, I guess it was kind of PC games and
occasionally had the old Nez and Snaz games in it.
But they had a cabinet in there and it was the go to place after
school. You'd take a, you know, a mile
and a half walk into town just to play Type R and see you can
get the highest score. They're the two things.
It's kind of a nostalgic hit I think, you know, arcades now.
It strikes terror into me because my kids don't go in to
play them. They're going to play Penny
Falls. So, you know, time has been
reversed and they go in to drop 2 PS on mass into a machine to
win a plastic toy or a penny suite.
So they probably spent about £15 getting one of those two things,
if they're lucky, all the dreaded claw machines.
But that it's that all the, all the, all the flipping tokens
that drive me insane. Right where you, I've won 1200
tokens and they're saying great, what can I get?
It's a sherbet, Dib dab. Do you know what I mean?
In exchange? So you know, it wasn't, it's not
what I experienced. Although weirdly, when we first
went, we were back in Hunstanton and the girls hadn't yet
experienced an arcade. And we had the dog with us.
There was this whole thing around, you know, could we even
take the dog in? And I always said, tomorrow if
we look, here's some money, you, you take him in.
And I was kind of like, I'm not, well, I'm not getting to go in
there. And then the guy at the door was
like, no, no, no, bring the dog in.
I was like, Oh my God, I can go in an arcade.
I can legitimately go in an arcade and feel.
And I was a little bit excited, you know, I have to be honest.
He's not like a little bit we come out, but I was excited, you
know, I can go into an arcade. So, yeah.
And just wandering around. But it's quite depressing these
days because you, you know, in those, like I said,
comparatively, you were kind of going from what was essentially
a calculator at home to, you know, an IMAX in the arcade.
You know, that was the, you know, the difference between the
two things. And now it's I can do all this
at home on my sofa. Well, this is the main point I
had. Is your spot on?
When we were kids, the arcade felt like the future.
This was the upgrade. Now arcades here are more geared
to the past. The arcades we've really kind of
got a retro, right? You know, the main, the seaside
ones know they're just old, right?
But the arcades, the main arcades we've got set up are
focusing on, and don't get me started on retro.
When you go in and there's like an Xbox 360 or an Xbox One.
But it's funny how it's flipped. And I guess that's because, as
you said, you know, at home we've got the most powerful
things already, whereas before we had the Commodore 64.
But I was then going to the arcade and seeing these shiny
graphics. And how depressing was it when
you played a game at the arcade and then it released on the
Commodore 64 and it was nothing like it.
It was, you know that I tell you what it was like, you know,
those straight to video, like, you know, it's not Star Wars,
it's it's Star Blazers or something.
Do you know what I mean? It's it's almost a complete RIP
off of exactly the same. That's what that was like back
then. They were appalling.
I ask all listeners now try look online like when Street Fight 2,
which is a game I'll talk about when that got released on the
home markets. Just look at the different
between the home versions. And we've got to remember now
when a game gets released. Now it's Xbox, Switch,
PlayStation. Then it was Amiga, Atari St.
Mega, Dr. Nez, Amstrad, Commodore 64.
They were developing it quick for all sorts, right?
And some that had, like said, less memory.
Yeah. Different.
Yeah, complete. So it wasn't even no
consistency, often in only 8 colours you know it was.
So I just think it's, it's really funny the way or what we
use arcades for now. But yeah, my, my memories in my
head growing up, I always imagined arcade.
So you see it on American TV, you know, all the programmes we
had at the time, it felt like there was an arcade on every
street corner in America. And, you know, they were full of
these latest machines. Whereas here the only experience
I had was as and when we went to say, a seaside resort or the
fair that would come to town twice a year.
Fairground. Yeah, yeah, we.
Always had one or two bespoke areas, what often with the
punching bag outside. Yes, the punishing bag.
Yeah, and yeah, you'd go in and I was just mesmerised by the
noises you'd see that the flashing colours, the attract
screens on the games, you know, because they really did had to
work to lure you in, didn't they?
It was it was catnip for gamers. I mean, it's essentially what it
was the the lights and the, you know, it was it was just all
going off and the I can hear it in my head now.
I can hear that noise and you're like, I'm just going to pop in
here. And the number of times I did
that when I was younger, just go.
I'm just going to. I won't be a minute, and
sometimes with no money just to see what I'll be fair, often
hunting very specifically for the Star Wars vector graphics
cabinet that was. That never understood what the
hell was going on with that game, but I used to want to play
it. But but you know, the, the, the
thing about the fairground was there would be a guy, the worker
sitting in like a glass booth because you would go give him
your £10 note to change him to change.
Now I can't remember, but I've got the recollection of the
games being anywhere between like 20 to 50 P ago.
Yeah, I I think that's fair. Some of the old ones, maybe even
10. But yeah, you'd go, you'd give
him your money and he'd give you the change and then you just
pumping those coins into it. But so that was it.
And the the only other times, like I said, was a couple of
times because most of my family holidays when I was young was
going to see family in Italy. So although there was, there was
a where my aunt lived down the street, my cousin used to take
me, there was like a little cafe and then you'd go downstairs and
there'd be a table where men would be playing cards and they
had like 2 arcade machines. And I think 1 was like a video
poker and the other, and this really, and it always stays in
my mind was Pang. Do you remember the game Pang
with the bubbles? And you've got to shoot the
bubble and it splits into two. Then you shoot the bubble again,
kind of like asteroids. And I play that and the only
other one, and I think I said to you on our walk yesterday, the
one that really strikes in my mind was once when we went to
Spain, the hotel in the basement had again like a pool table and
a couple of machines. And one of them was Street
Fighter two, which I'd never seen before.
And my God, the amount of time, the amount of time the money I'd
spent, I'd, I'd be going down in that basement, then going up
finding my dad. Dad can have more money going
back in the lift, going down in the money and.
That, that finding of a random machine where you were on
holiday, you know, and it just, and it would be just one thing
in a corner and there might be some other kids at the hotel and
you'd be, you know, queuing up for turns on the thing.
Putting your money. Do you remember putting your
money on the screen? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Waiting to line up a bit like you do with a pool table.
Right. But it didn't matter how crap
that game was. It didn't matter.
It could have been the worst I could, but it was an arcade
game. And you were like, I don't care.
I'm going to do it. Not even to master it, not even
to be the best in the world at it.
Just because I wasn't having to sit by a swimming pool.
I was able to go and play on a video game.
It was, you know, yeah, absolute pure joy and.
It's really interesting what you said about, yeah, people lining
up to play it because you know, the sometimes the pressure you'd
have knowing that there's a queue of people behind you
watching you play that game. It's like, you know, at home
nobody can see how bad I am at FIFA, Well, except everyone I'm
playing online with, but nobody's watching me
specifically. But people watching.
And you would sometimes if you caught a glimpse of someone
playing a game really well, they would have a crowd round them.
Sometimes you would see that. And it's just such an odd
scenario now, isn't it, that that social aspect?
I think I think people watch a lot of American movies or TV
shows set in a certain period, whether it's the kind of 80s,
late 70s and they kind of see that and they assume that, oh,
it's just done for film or it's done for, you know, effect.
But that that was genuinely what it was like, you know, here.
And I think the only reason, you know, you talked about, you
know, the US and kind of thinking, oh, there must have
been one on every corner there must have been is because we
really didn't have any perspective on Japan and what
was happening there, because that would have been the hub,
right? But as kids, the closest
comparative you had was the US. It was like, well, it's America,
right? It's not.
But actually it was probably Japan was much further.
I mean, we talked about before, you know, the Neo Geos and
things like that, which essentially, you know, arcade
boards in a home console. But that's where they were born
and bred. So those are the days you get a
meal misty eyed. Yeah, look at that.
This is the thing, you go down that rabbit hole.
And again, I just found the arcades we had, or maybe round
here, they weren't really arcades like you said.
It was that family thing of yeah, you'd have the claw
machines and then you'd have those 2P coin machines and you'd
get maybe the odd game. Oh of of course, the fruit
machines as well. And for me, it was when that
fare came round that was the only reason I was excited.
I didn't care about the rides, bumper cars, Dodge rooms,
whatever they were called. Straight for the arcades.
Straight for the arcades, yeah. And that was it.
So I was going to ask you, what were the games for you before we
go into that? Because the other thing we
shouldn't, and it might sound funny to people now, is, you
know, you'd go in and you'd have your your cabinets, right.
But over time it evolved. Like, do you remember?
What was it? Harrier Now, what was that?
What was that space Harrier. Yeah.
At one point it had a.
Problem it's on my list. I have a list I.
Had you had a hydraulic cabinet that you sat in and the whole
thing flung you around and, and that was the thing like.
They were all based on the outrun, you know, it was that
same, the same cabinet, just remasked as something
differently. But they were they were all
after Burner was another one had the same thing.
But there was a motorbike game Super hang on which one of them?
I remember falling off it because I was a bit young at the
time it. Was a lean it.
Was a motorbike you sat on and you had to lean to the left and
right and there's no reason I wasn't interested in motorbikes,
but I had to use it because you got to sit on a motorbike.
Yeah, where else are you going to do that, right?
Where else are you going to race?
And you know, looking back at it now, the the graphics,
everything was just appalling. But at the time, they were.
Yeah, that was a hoot. So what?
What? What were your stand out
memories and games? So, so look what I think we're
all agreed, you know, and, and, and our listeners will probably
know by now I'm old. OK, so, so you know, I, I go
back and I think, no, I know some of the earliest memories
and you sent me a bit of a challenge on this stuff because
like I said, my memory is not fantastic and I tend to lock
things away and not kind of open the door at them.
And actually when I then started thinking about arcade games and
you know, what I used to play and how how I kind of got into
them as as they evolved, it all started I think for me with
things like Paper Boy. So was.
Right, So, so paper boy. Spy Hunter.
Yeah. Do you remember Spy Hunter?
The car to a boat, The I. Remember it on the Commodore 64,
but I don't remember playing it in the arcade.
Yeah. Yeah, and another one, another
one that really came back to me and I and I remembered it, but I
remembered it very specifically because I was a little while
ago, I was reading Ready Player 1 and it was the game Joust,
which I fell in love with. Yeah.
But it was one of the very first two player Co-op games, right?
So so you know, and and then then then that was it.
That opened the floodgates. So then it was like, Oh yeah,
but but what about ya Kung Fu? And what about Kung Fu master?
You know, and what about? And then it was the Star Wars
cabinet. And then one of the things that
I remember spending an inordinate amount of money on
when I was a holiday once was Rolling Thunder.
And it was. Just.
Right, Secret agent. No, it's your secret agent and
you're basically in an underground base and you very
limited ammo and you went indoors to get more ammo and and
there was a trick you could do where you could keep going back
to the machine gun one to go for, but it was really hard.
And then I always spoke about Tide Park.
Gauntlet was another favorite, especially we had friends with
you. Gauntlet that was a massive
machine as well wasn't it? Was 4 plan.
Health needs more health. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly right.
Rampage. Do you remember Rampage the
Monsters? And yeah, I mean, they made a,
they made a movie out of that. With the rock for God's sake,
right? Like.
Space Harrier was on my list as well.
I think it's I can't remember. It's called ghosts and goblins
over here. Or Ghosts and Ghouls when it
launched. Ghouls and ghosts.
Ghouls and ghouls and whatever it was.
One of those it's those words. Somebody picked the right
combination. With them there's a combination
of words. Work it out for yourself.
Splatterhouse Oh yeah 7:20 the skateboarding one the.
Skateboard one. Yeah, yeah.
Battle zone, Battle zone, Vectographic tank thing.
You had the visor, right? So all of these things started
bubbling up. NARC.
So NARC was kind of a around about the same time as I'm going
to mention it, because if we go a podcast without mentioning it,
I'm going to quit about the same time as RoboCop.
I was got it. I was going to mention it.
Don't worry. Yeah.
RoboCop winners don't do drugs right, isn't that?
Winners don't do drugs. Exactly.
Yeah, Altered Beast. Do you remember?
Altered Beast and again, all of these games had had, I'm going
to call them remakes, downgrades on home consoles right where
they were just nowhere near as good as the other Golden Axe.
I've got that on my list, yeah. Exactly right that all of those
and double dragon and those sort of you.
Know what I would say about? Fighting games.
Sorry, what I was going to say about Golden Axe, the reason why
I was fascinated by that, obsessed with that one, was it
was just really big colourful graphics in that one, wasn't it?
It was very simple gameplay, but it was really bright, bold
colours. And yeah, I just, I got, yeah, I
got hooked on that. That was another one I spent a
lot of money on, yeah. Anyone that had character
selection, I think that for me was the hook back in the day,
you know, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, X-Men, X-Men versus
Avengers, you know, all of these things that kind of had a, you
know, a selection, not just a fighting game, but a side
scrolling through. I could, you know, choose to be
one of the the brothers in Double Dragon.
I could, you know, it was always that kind of that, that hook or
something that had a uniqueness to it where you, oh, I can pick
up a weapon, I can pick up a bottle to use it as a weapon.
Or I can? You know, those sort of things
really the the things that I really enjoyed, but that I think
that developed like Ron. I think originally it was just
the very, just the very idea of playing, you know, a game like
something as simple as paper. But I mean, come on, it's the
most boring job in the world. I did it for like 5 years as a
kid. Like it was a.
Frustratingly paper. But it was a frustrating, But
it's like a busman's holiday. It's like I I do that when I'm
12 years old to earn a bit of cash.
Yeah, I'm going down an arcade and playing the same thing do.
You know, The funny thing is, well, this is the second time we
mentioned paper boy. We mentioned it in the pilot
episode, the first episode. I want to say people, because
we've got to remember we are paper.
A paper boy was somebody that used to deliver papers,
newspapers, which was, which was physical news that you read the
day after it happened. Now called an influencer, but
yeah, essentially, yeah. The paper boy delivered your
news on in with the paper and and the game was you rode along
the street avoiding obstacles, throwing papers at people's
doors, which was an American, I can think not a British thing to
be fair. British we, we we put papers
through the doors regardless. You had to deliver it to the
subscribing houses. If you missed them they didn't
subscribe. And I think if you threw threw
it through the window of a non subscriber, I think it would get
added or one would get added somewhere.
Basically rewarding vandalism. Yeah.
Yeah, what? What other reasons to play it?
But yeah, I mean, you know, the list goes on and on and on.
But, you know, those are the kind of ones I had an obsession
for a long time with Kung Fu Master.
I don't know if you remember. It's the one where you just went
side to side quite quickly doing high kicks in people's faces.
And they're very specific noises.
They're essentially the noises now people use for any kind of
punch in a movie were the noises that cabinet would make.
And it was just, it was just AI don't know.
I just got obsessed with it, like hitting that button as much
as I could to kick people in the face and knock them off the
screen. Shinobi was another one.
Shinobi, yeah. But you know, The funny thing is
the majority of your games that you've mentioned, this is a good
thing. The ones that I replayed at home
and didn't play so much in the arcade.
So I've got a slightly different selection.
But going back to Paperboy, the one other thing than the random
assault course it had at the end or obstacle course, I mean, you,
you were you were doing, I didn't do.
Yeah. And then there would be like a
random obstacle course. But yeah, if what I did.
Was went back to the shop and got a Pepsi in Mars Bar.
I mean, that was, you know what I mean.
I didn't do an obstacle course at the end of my paper round.
Yeah. I mean, other than the ones that
if you've mentioned, some of the ones you've mentioned, one I
used to love doing, it was an older game, but it was called
Super Sprint and it was like a top down racing game, very
basic. Round the thing and you went
round. But you had four steering
wheels. Yeah.
You had four steering wheels. And the reason I loved that was
because to turn around some of the corners, you could just spin
that steering wheel like crazy and you would do a really cool
spin. And you're like, yes, I'm.
I'm Nigel Mansell. You know, I'm.
I'm sure. Yeah, weirdly, there's a,
there's now an arcade game and I, I'm pretty sure it's on
console as well, but they made the arcade game, the Hot Wheels
game reminds me of a bigger, better Super Sprint.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, You're right, Right.
But it's funny on my list, considering I was never.
I don't, not that I don't particularly like car games.
I've got quite a few car games. Another one was Chase HQ.
Yes, I remember Chase HQ. I love that again, the the first
moment I saw that. So yeah, where you'll, you've
got to catch a chase up to a criminal and then you've got to
run them off the road, haven't you?
You've. Got yeah basically ram them.
Yeah, the home port for that was very disappointing.
Again, look that up. I.
Think it's fair to say the home ports for all of these were very
disappointing, Dan. There was no good home boards.
One for you, RoboCop. I did like the RoboCop arcade
game. Loved.
RoboCop. You briefly mentioned it, Double
Dragon. I loved that.
So that was a Co-op fighting game.
But again, I like that because it was just, it played so well,
it controlled, it handled really well.
Yeah, it was always a big in the arcades.
It was you went in that that and Street Fighter Two were always,
or Street Fighter actually were always monopolised by the bigger
boys. Yeah, the next one was a random
one, but I used to love playing it again just because it had a
peripheral on it. But Operation Wolf, do you
remember? Oh, it's on my list.
It's on my list, Yes, sorry. It's like I've just got bingo.
It's on my Operation Wolf time crisis.
So I I didn't get down the shooter Ave. but it's it's
there. Yeah, operation.
Yeah, just it doesn't want to wander around with a newsy.
You suppose if you haven't heard it, it was so it was an arcade
game. You were facing it to the
screen, it would go left to right and it was basically it
was a shooter, It was a war game.
But you had like a machine gun on the cabinet.
Didn't you Like a plastic? Yeah, newsy.
Yeah, newsy on, on the cabinet. Yeah, that's it.
Sprayed and prayed. It was a light gun game, but you
also had a button on it which would release a bomb, wouldn't
it? Or a grenade or something.
It wasn't. It on the on the.
Yeah, on the front of the gun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Little red button I remember. It Oh dear.
But yeah, you you've mentioned like all the delight gun
shooters, yeah, like time crisis, etcetera.
The last few I've got for me that was standouts.
So you kind of mentioned them. Was there was The Simpsons
fighting game? Yes, it felt like a bit of a
reskin of the Turtles game, which also felt like it was the
same cabinet they used for Gauntlet because it was that
same BIG4 player. And X-Men, and I mean, they're
all very much of A and all, all Capcom, I think.
But The Simpsons one again was just so bright, colourful.
It looked like the cartoon to up to a kid anyway to me at the
time. It was, yeah, exactly like it.
I'm finishing with two more car games.
One was the daddy of all racing games, Outrun.
Outrun. Yeah.
Just the music that's etched into my mind.
And being made into a movie. Is it?
Recently announced yeah, my word, I'm going to have to look
it up, but but quite I think it's quite a famous director and
actors attached to it as well. Crack on.
I I will. I will do that thing that we
don't do, which is Google it. It's Michael Bay.
I think Michael Bay. Oh well, we know what Bay.
Is going to do. Yeah, yeah, I, I and I genuinely
thought it was on April Fools when I read it.
For anyone watching it, there was no explosions, there were no
machine guns in in outruns. So let's wait and see what
happens there. The last one I was going to do a
special mention is probably the more recent game.
When I say recent was Daytona, the Daytona racing game.
The only call out for that it was I mean it was a good game,
but it was depending on the size of the arcade you went to.
So here the local bowling alley had it.
You had anywhere from I think 6 to 10 people could race at the
same time. So it was sit down cars and
yeah, you could have up to at least my place.
It was 6 people which felt really cool at the time, you
know, to have six of you sort of having a having a race around
the track. Yeah, that one that they, the
bowling alley you're talking about got it got replaced with
one of the motorbike games like Super GP or one of those kind of
type games with with the tilting bikes quite recently actually,
and then got replaced with Mario Kart.
So when we talked about, you know, arcades, yeah.
So so Mario Kart did the reverse St.
Mario Kart was a originally a Nintendo home console game and
then expanded into the arcades. So it's, you know, it kind of, I
guess in some respects it works both ways, right.
But yeah, I just, I get depressed when I walk around
that place because there's nothing you kind of excites you
and goes, oh, I want to play that now.
Yeah. And, and I know we're older,
Dan, right? But it does feel like, oh, yeah,
as a kid, I was screaming like, you know, my parents did, like I
needed to go there. Now I'd be like, my phone plays
better games than that. Yes.
It does. Yes, it does.
That's the depressing thing. Well, maybe it's a great thing.
I don't. Know look, and, and like you
said, look, we're, we're I, well, I'm probably the wrong
audience. You've got kids and obviously
you said they, they love it. I think now it's more of a a
novelty than a you're kind of going there because totally
you're mind blown. Yeah, I mean, my, my kids are
kind of 11 and no, nearly 11 and 12.
And I think the whole video, you know, they're they're because
they've got me as dad, they're indoctrinated into the whole
video game things, right. They're not operating unless
they're faces in the screen. It's not healthy parenting.
I don't advocate for it, by the way.
I try and stop them from doing it.
But therefore when they go to an arcade, it is a bit all I've
seen it done it. I'll do that.
I'm not bothered. So they are very much drawn to
the more mechanical claw, you know, something that can win
tickets invariably doesn't have a screen or, or the more
physical games like, you know, the the basketball hoops and
things like that or whack A mole.
You know, you try and steer them and go, yeah, but there's a
there's an old, you know, Street Fighter two Cam that over there.
Do you want to give that? And they're just like, Nah, I
think the only concession to make is kind of the the thing
which I absolutely hate, but they've got their place is the
dancing machines. I was going to mention those.
Yeah, yeah. And their mum, being a dance
teacher then feels like she's won some private battle that was
never unfolding by going, well, they're on a screen, but they're
dancing. And I'm sitting there going,
yeah, but they're not killing each other in a video game.
So I'm not happy. But, you know, yeah, that's.
I think that's about the only concession they make in an
arcade. I was going to say that is there
two things ultimately that led to the demise and I've got a few
points about arcades generally. Is it one that we were getting
better systems at home? So naturally, you know, we
weren't as impressed, but also the size of the machines like
you, you mentioned it, those dancing machines, they're
massive, right? So if you've got one of those
in, that's probably taking up the space of maybe two or three
cabinets, so. Yeah, I, I, I'm not from a
decline perspective, I'm not sure the scale of them was, was
ever, you know, going to be the biggest problem.
I think as a business model, it doesn't really work unless you
have a significant volume of customers.
So you can't really pivot and do anything else.
When you look at the catering industry, you know, that was
decimated during COVID, admittedly, but there were
people who managed to survive because they were able to pivot
and go, well, I'll do home delivery or I'll do you know,
I'll do a cooking lesson. Whereas with an arcade, you're
kind of stuck to one thing and that's getting as many people
through the door to put as much money in a machine as possible.
And when that goes into decline for whatever reason, I'm not
blaming COVID because I think the heyday of, of arcades was
very much late 80s, early 90s. I think post that it kind of the
decline started, but I, I would very much say it has to do with
the rise of the popularity of home consoling.
I mean, you know, it's too much of A coincidence to kind of go,
you know, the golden age of those was late 90s up, you know,
from up to now. And yet, you know, arcades
generally started declining. You know, in terms of what we're
talking about arcades, there's too much of A crossover.
Does that make sense? Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, and also, you know, sort of arcade games when you look at
it as much as. And again, like I said, I
wouldn't change the fun and experiences I had in them
playing those games, but they were made to take your money.
They were difficult. Sometimes you wouldn't get far
in a game. You'd just be constantly put in
the money. So you know now three lives,
three lives the. Whole thing, right, that people
don't realise that you play a game now at home on a console,
you know infinite lives doesn't matter, right?
Dark Souls is hard, but I can keep doing it, right?
I can get, I can get, I can get good.
I can dig. That didn't happen in our case.
Yeah, yeah, 3 lives that's. All from the beginning and you
start. And then yeah, be with it.
It's just. And that's the thing.
And it's a different experience because now at home you've got
these proper worlds you're exploring, right?
Or when I say now I'm, I'm even talking about the 90s, you know,
with especially with the release of the PlayStation, right?
But you know, we said a couple of times as well before, like
the Amiga for me, that was brilliant.
And yeah, we had the Neo Geo. Then you started getting into
2000s, you had the whole main simulation, right.
And people are running arcade games at home.
So all these factors, yeah, must have contributed And and now
they are like you said, I think they're more novelty
experiences, you know, like these basketball things.
And to win tickets, like said, you need 20,000 just to be able
to get like a pencil. Yeah.
It's. Yeah, and they drive me out of
the wall, those things. But they, you know, the kids
love them and invariably you go into an arcade and some person's
won a million of them and God, he goes, I don't know what to do
with them. Do you want them?
And just gives them to my kids. So they end up having a Mars
bar, you know, which is a, that's how much it costs.
So somebody has has literally spent 20 or £30 to buy a pound
chocolate bar. And the other thing is one more
game to mention was we talk about, because I'm talking about
frustrating experiences on games.
It looked amazing. Dragon Slayer, did you ever see?
We talked about Dragon's Lair on the first podcast, Laser Discs
and the Evolution. Yeah.
But yeah, Dragon's Lair was, I think, one of the most single
infuriating games. If you didn't memorize the
actions required to achieve the things, I think you had specific
buttons for an action. So to people listening and the
home version, I think there was one that played more like a
game, but even the home versions, it was basically a
series of cutscenes and at some point it wouldn't even announce
it. Like now you kind of get a
warning. You would have to do an action
either like left, right, up, down or or attack.
You had to go the right way. And if you got the wrong 1, you
died and that was it. You had to go back or you know,
and if you got the right 1, you would then proceed to the next
cutscene. But it looked stunning.
But it was so. Strange, it was created this the
animation was all created by Don Bluth, who was the next Disney
animator, right? So, so he'd so they they
basically, you know, employed him to create these animations
and you'll have seen Don Bluth work, right?
He's done loads of the the one the I can't remember the the
dinosaur franchise he did outside of Disney.
That was, you know, animated movie about little cute
dinosaurs. But, you know, people will
recognise his work. But yeah, they, they, they
basically employed him to do this, to create this game.
I'm not sure anyone ever saw the end of it.
I jet unless on the laser disc there was an option to just
watch the movie. Do you know?
What I mean, because it was, yeah, I think the furthest I got
was maybe the third cutscene, and that was like, yeah.
And then you died and replayed it and they were like, I can't
get there again. It was that.
Hard, yeah. And it was, it was more
expensive because obviously it was it was a better looking.
It was more hardware, I think, wasn't it?
It was a late, yeah. I mean, you know, quick ago
probably. Hey, people complain about
Soulsborne and and those types of games and kind of right, you
know nothing. Go and play Dragon's Lair and
see how see if you managed to keep your sanity right, Because
yeah, that game was something else.
I tell you what arcades did do for me, though, I spent in in my
latter years, I was just big. You'd be surprised to hear this.
I'm a big comic book nerd as well.
And so I used to take a lot of trips into London when I was
kind of 1516 to kind of go to comic book shops and used to
haunt Jonathan Ross's comic book shop because he always had kind
of latest editions and things like that there.
But on my way back, I'd always kind of go past kind of
Piccadilly Circus area and go to the Trocadero.
Which was Trocadero. Yeah, yeah.
Big arcade that. Was a big one, wasn't it?
That was it. Was yeah, it was the one you
went to and obviously remained for quite might still be there,
but remained for quite a while because of the tourism aspect
and you had a lot of footfall and things like that.
But one of the things that opened my eyes on in the very
early days of it. And again, you do it now you
just go yeah, it's just a thing. Book was VR, so they had AVR rig
up there where you played like in a big mech.
You were basically, you know, got inside a mech and fought
other people. And it was.
It's just world changing, like you kind of got in it and I must
have spent the 1st 5 minutes, I think you only have maybe 10
minutes. So the first 5 minutes just
staring straight ahead and then something happened, a noise or
something and I and then it clicks and you're like, Oh my
God, I can look around. I can you know.
So, you know, arcade's actually had a quite a profound impact
on, you know, that and probably my wallet now when I then when
when, you know, I now need to go and buy virtual reality.
So when I got old enough and big enough and earned enough money,
I was like, well, I'm definitely buying a PlayStation VR and and
the next generation of that as well.
And, you know, and when you do play it, it's been it.
But it all started at an arcade. Yeah, yeah.
You know, and even now there's some of these arcades have VR
machines in them, just stand alone units.
I remember years ago going to one of these kind of arcades now
with a mutual colleague of ours. And so we're probably talking
probably about it's got to be at least if it's not ten years ago,
it's it's a couple of years either side of that.
And it was in London. It was called the heart of
gaming and it was set up as A to keep gaming scene going.
So it and it was brilliant because it's moved since, but it
was in a building kind of it felt like in the middle of
nowhere that there's on a couple of floors and you went into one
room and it was just arcade cabinets and they would load
whatever games up onto it. But another room I remember
where they had like the dancing machines going on.
It encouraged people. You paid the fee.
I think it was like 10 LB to get in.
But then everything you, you, you could just be in there as
long as you want. That's like there were people
getting take out pizzas in there and, and, and running around
pizza. But there was like another room
where they had like the the Rock Band games set up and another
room where it was all the consoles.
And that's what I'm saying. I remember sitting in there
playing Gears of War, the original version on an Xbox 360
in in that and I think that's probably where I'd love to see
more of those start coming. I think there is one sort of not
not more than half hour away from us.
So maybe we should do a road trip?
I think it's called research, Dan.
I think it's called research and it's a legitimate reason to give
Tom Wyers. We're doing some research for
the podcast. We we're going to go a little
bit, yeah. Play some video games or what?
That would be more video games. Yeah, I did tell you my little
secret. I'd always wanted to open it and
arcade and pizza joint that was kind of mine.
You should do it like that American star thing.
Just. Let's do it.
I mean, it's a terrible business
model. I mean it will, it will just end
up being a pizza restaurant if. They're I'll beat you out of
business in the first day, right?
So yeah, I, I mentioned the timeline.
I'm not going to go too much into detail.
And again, very loose, especially sort of in like
America, the, the first arcade machines really appeared around
7177, which if you think about it, you know, a lot earlier than
I thought it would be the golden age of arcade games said to be
78 to 83. So that's Space Invaders was
made in 78. But if you think in that that
period, that five year period, you add Asteroids, Galaxian,
Missile Command, Pac-Man, Centipede, Defender, Donkey
Kong, Frogger, Gallagher, Scramble, Tempest and Zaxon.
All in all in that 4-5 year period.
That, that's strange as well. That's the first mention of
Donkey Kong. Right which?
Obviously spawned 1 of arguably the biggest franchises on the
planet, right? So it's yeah.
But neither of us kind of mentioned it, mainly because it
was bloody frustrating to be honest.
Jump man and you. Know well, I never really played
it at the arcade, only at that that heart of gaming place I
told you about. But yeah, but that was 1981
Donkey Kong. The end of the golden age was
1984. And I had a comment, I can't
remember who it's attributed to, but said that in 1982 there were
too many arcades for what was really needed.
Additionally, players required novelty and new games, and thus
required older games to be discontinued and replaced with
new ones. But not all new games were as
successful as those at the height of golden age.
Knowing that players were seeking more challenge, game
manufacturers designed the newer games to be harder.
But this caused less skilled mainstream players to to turn
away that. Makes sense?
We kind of said that, didn't we? I want more money, so I'm going
to make it harder so you put more money in.
I don't want to play it anymore. Market recovery 85 to 90.
So, and this was actually fuelled in them by fighting
games and, and you mentioned a few, so the yeah, popular
martial arts games, including games like karate Champ ER Kung
Fu, Kung Fu, just a renegade advanced motion simulated games
like we've spoke about like Superhang on space Harriet and
Outrun and the resurgence of sports games like track and
field and the World Cup game. I remember there was a football
game I used to play loads where you could foul the opponent.
Yeah, and track and field. Oh my God, Button mashing had
its finest right. That was just.
And the roller ball. Yes.
Oh yes. Which you could track your skin
in. Yeah.
Injuries. Like Missile Command 2.0 is,
yeah, horrendous. The only figures I'm going to
throw at you so they said by 985 the the arcade industry was
dominated by Japanese manufacturers and by 1988 the US
arcade video game revenue had increased to 5 1/2 billion
dollars, equivalent to 14.6 now. However, competition from
consoles like the the NES had revitalised the home video game
industry and was drawing players away.
It had a bit of a mini resurgence apparently in 9199
because of 3D. So games like and and again more
fine games like Street Fighter do Tekken 2, Mortal Kombat and
virtue of Fighter. This was an interesting one.
Here in 1993, Electronic Games noted that when historians look
back at the world of coin op during the early 90s, one of the
defining highlights of the video game art form will undoubtedly,
undoubtedly focus on fighting martial arts themes, which it
described as the backbone of the industry.
I mean, Mortal Kombat, that's all I'll say when that came out,
right? Yeah, again, it was on my list,
you know, but I didn't mention it specifically because I
thought it's, you know, everyone knows it, right?
And but everyone knows it because it's still around,
right? It's got legs, right?
All of these things have legs. Street Fighter still has legs.
All of these things that were virtual fighter I think is
coming back next year. I think there's another virtual
fighter being made. I mean, look, Donkey Kong right
now, Mario, but Donkey Kong's launch title for the for the,
for the Switch too. You know, there's a new shinobi
game coming up before the end of the year.
So all of these things still have these things with a big
history. They still come all the way
through to even now, right? And yes, they've changed and
yes, they've different studios and everything like that.
But yeah, they they hang around for a reason.
They're great games. And Mortal Kombat was one of
them. It was phenomenal, right?
It was the first motion captured, you know, fighting
game and it was it looked a bit clanky.
I guess now when you look back at even the arcade version was a
bit clanky, but it had that hook.
How do? I We all wanted to see those
fatalities, everyone. Wanted to see the fatalities.
That was the thing. That was the thing that, you
know, drove you. You know, I want to see someone
pull someone's head off and beat them to death with the spine or
whatever it was. Yeah, the final bit really was
saying COVID-19 pandemic and decline 2020 to present.
They said it did. You know, COVID-19 did have an
effect in Japan. Arcades did not qualify for
funding from lost revenue from the Japanese government.
And in the wake of the pandemic, several long standing arcades
were forced to close. Notably, Sega sold off most of
its arcade business. And there was an analysis firm
said that in 2024, they estimated that over 8000 arcades
had closed in the previous decade.
Yeah. Yeah.
And that that doesn't surprise me.
I mean, and this is the thing we forget in in Japan, these were
huge business owned, you know, places of, you know, where
people, businessmen would go and play, you know, whereas here
they were all small independents run by, you know, people who
finished at the fairground and wanted to retire by the seaside.
Now that's the sort of units we got.
I think Trocadero was sponsored by or, or or purchased by Sega
at some point, but then sold on. So, you know, because it was the
Sega Trocadero, you know, but, but, but in Japan it was, it was
a massive industry. Like here it was like pop down
the seaside and play. But there it was.
It was built into everyday life. And it yeah, it's just the sad.
Why is it sad? I mean.
It changes, doesn't. It things change, right?
Yeah, I can do it all at home without putting 10P in the
machine anymore. I guess that's the thing we've
got, you know, we've got the ability to enjoy it more at home
than we didn't at the time. So now the arcades need to
evolve and we've said they kind of have, right?
I've got one more. I've got more than three lives.
Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've got two more things on this to say.
So one was I found a quote somewhere that said that in
North America in 1982, there were 24,004 arcades, 400,000
arcade St. locations, and one and a half million arcade
machines active. And they said, you know, from
all that today there's probably closer to 4000 arcades.
But I had one fun thing here now, and this was it was a
Wikipedia article. And even they say, look, this
this is subject to change. But I look to what the most
grossing or the highest grossing arcade games were.
So I don't think it's a surprise.
What's the first couple? So PAC Man's number one, so
released 9 Do you? Think that's a longevity thing
though. Do you think that's a?
Yeah. Well, we say that it says here
the hardware units sold were until 1982.
So, you know the figures I'm going to quote until 1982 is
insane, right? So the estimate, the estimated
gross revenue for Pac-Man until 1982 was $6 billion.
Wow. That's equivalent to 2024
inflation of 19.5 billion. For a for a little yellow cookie
trying to not be in by ghosts, that's 6.
Billion, yeah. Wow.
A Space Invaders were number 21978 up until 1982.
It grows 3.8 billion, which is equivalent to 18.3 today.
Street Fighter Two was third and that was 5.3 billion, equivalent
to 12.3 and I won't go into them all but 4 was King of Fighters
97. That's the newest game from 97
Donkey Kong, Miss Pac-Man, Asteroids and Defender.
Where was? Where was RoboCop then?
I didn't put enough. I didn't put enough coins in it
back in the day. I think that's a problem.
Disappointing it's not on that billion list.
Right, we'll probably need to close out soon because I'm
sitting in the dark because I forgot to turn my light on
before we started recording and I.
Didn't need to put 50P in a meeting.
You didn't do that on purpose because it was.
There was a link, no. No, so I'm we're going to finish
down. What are you looking forward to
in the world of games in the next week or two?
Next week or two, so I'm going to I'm going to desperately.
There are two main quest lines in in in nowhere sort of wicked,
and I've got to the end of both of them, which end with the just
ridiculously hard boss battles on either end.
So I'm, I'm trying to do that and do a bit of grinding to
level up to try and get through that, but I think it's in vain
because it's just too hard. I'm going to have a good old go
at Expedition 33. I think Revenge of the Savage
Planet comes out in the next couple of weeks as well.
And I thoroughly enjoyed the humor of the first one being a
kind of FPS. But that's launched on Game Pass
and it's now a third person, third person.
So that that looks quite good. Then I guess imminently just,
you know, about a month away from the Switch to launch.
So I'll be Mario, Mario World, Mario Kart World and then
something I'm trying to rope you into because I spoke to you
about it before and I'm very much looking forward to.
I'm going to encourage any listeners to go and have a look
at his FBC Fire Break from the guys who bought you Control and
Alan Wake. And it's there that is their
kind of Co-op extraction shooter type thing, but with a lot more
humour. And you can single play it all
set in the oldest House from control.
That looks like a heap of fun. So I know you and me are going
to have got a list of of some Co-op we want to go after.
So yeah, that's that's kind of where I'm at for next couple of
weeks. So hopefully, yeah, all my
dreams will come true without having to put pennies into.
Them. What have you got on your list
though for the next weeks or so? For me, I want to get stuck into
Expedition 33. I've heard I've not I've I've
kept myself spoiler free, but I've heard there's some really
big plot points in it. So OK, but I'm taking my time
with it exploring everywhere. So yeah, it it'll be to continue
that. But the other thing I picked up,
you know, and we were talking about indie games last week is
it looks weird and sounds weird. So I'm going to read to you what
the description is, but I'm not going to pronounce it right, but
it's called despellote. This is the football.
The football one, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I've read.
I've read about it. I have read about it.
Yeah. Yeah, I saw it.
And not my bag, but I, I, I when do you know what?
When I saw it, I went. Dan's going to be all over that.
Well, it's right up my alley. I love these kind of indie games
and it's developed by two people and when I read about it, I
thought, you know, I bought it one to support them.
And also at the moment it's because it's new, it's got like
a very slight discount. It's described as a first person
slice of life set in keto during Ecuador's qualification for the
2002 FIFA World Cup, where the player is able to explore and
play with soccer ball in the city.
Now it doesn't sound like much, but everything I've read said
it's actually quite, there's quite a lot of emotion in it
because it's developed by two people and they've put their
personal life stories into it so.
It's had some stellar reviews, like across the board, a bit
like blueprints. When that came out, it was like,
you know, everyone is in agreement.
It's a cracking game. So yeah, I am going to.
That's going to be my so I always tend to have two games on
the go. 1 is like a big game and 1 is a quick sort of 5 minutes
here or there. So that'll be that game.
So yeah, I'm, I'm really looking forward to it.
It looks very quirky, but you know, I wouldn't have bought it
if it was was rubbish. But as you said, it's getting
really good right up. So yeah, good man.
So Dan, anything else you want to say on anything we've said?
No, as always, enjoy the games you got, enjoy the games that
are coming up and we will no doubt touch upon Half Life 3
when we come back with the next episode.
I will be. I'll try and claw my way out of
the rabbit hole of Reddit and and and hopefully have some
truths around it, but are. You saying Half Life 3
confirmed? Is that what you're saying?
I look, I told you I follow it on Twitter or WEX or whatever it
is called now is Half Life 3 out yet?
The answer was still no today. So.
So no, no, not confirmed. Well, thanks Dan and thanks
everyone for listening. As I said, we have got plans for
this, so please keep paying attention to this feed, the
casting Views feed for now. And when we put these episodes
out, keep. Yeah, yeah.
Just keep an eye out for the news.
We'll launch soon. If you've got any memories of
arcades or favorite arcade games, get in touch.
Drop us, you know, respond to anywhere.
Respond to us anywhere on social media.
And yeah, we'll see you next time for another episode of
Gaming VIEWS. Dan and Dan with a gaming flair.
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