Hey everybody, welcome back to the Elon Musk Podcast.
This is a show where we discuss the critical Crossroads, The
Shape, SpaceX, Tesla X, The Boring Company, and Neuralink,
and I'm your host, Will Walden. If you want uninterrupted
episodes of the Elon Musk podcast, please go to
clubelon.supercast.com to find out how there's a link in the
show notes Some very interesting news is happening down at
Starbase, Texas. A proposed land exchange
involving nearly 500 acres of land near Laguna at Escosa
National Wildlife Refuge and 43 acres of Boca Chica State Park
has sparked a debate, with Cameron County Judge Eddie
Trevino Junior recently expressing support for the swap
in a commentary. Now this is important.
This is big news for SpaceX because they need more land to
expand the Starbase facility, so they continue building starships
at that area. Now this land deal aims to
safeguard the unique natural environment of Cameron County,
Texas, which is around Starbase but has faced criticism with
environmental groups nearby. Now Trevino shows that the
exchange is crucial for preserving the county's
distinctive ecosystems, which includes various plant and
animal species. And he also argues that the 477
acres in question are vital for the protection of delicate
coastal dunes and the nesting grounds of endangered birds,
highlighting the environmental significance of this land.
Now, Trevino is a big proponent of SpaceX, but the county judges
support for the land swap marks a shift from his earlier
skepticism, which was rooted in a lack of information from the
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department.
Trevino now believes that the exchange is well-intentioned and
essential for Cameron County's environmental future, thanks to
improved collaboration with the TPWD.
Now, Trevino's endorsement of the land deal is framed around a
commitment to sustainability environmental stewardship.
Now, Mary Angela Branch from SAVE RGV, which is an
environmental advocacy group, criticized Trevino's position,
arguing that the proposed land exchange would further harm the
local ecosystem. She contends that industrial
expansions are already transforming the area into a
wasteland. She's talking about starbase,
contradicting the goal of preserving natural habitats.
Now, Branch points out the ecological differences between
the two parcels of land involved in the swap.
She emphasizes that Boca Chica Beach serves as a crucial
habitat for shore birds, unlike the land offered by SpaceX,
which is characterized by thorn scrub and lack of suitable
nesting areas for those kind of birds.
Now the avodwell advocate warns that the land exchange could
lead to restricted access to natural areas and decline in the
biodiversity that Driffino aims to protect.
She argues that the development will erode the area's natural
beauty and ecological richness, marking a case for the
irreversible impact of such land deals.
Now SpaceX needs this land in order to expand Starbase Now
Branch's concerns extend to a broader consequences of the land
swap, suggesting it could set a dangerous precedent for the
future development. And she urges the community to
consider the long term environmental costs of
facilitating industrial expansion at the expense of
natural habitats. The TPWD is scheduled to hold a
special Commission meeting to discuss this and vote on the
land exchange proposal. A decision will be made in the
context of significant public interest and debate over the
environmental and cultural impacts of the swap.
And despite reaching out for comment, Trevino's office has
yet to respond to inquiries about his support of this deal.
The outcome of the TPWD meeting and any subsequent statements
from involved parties are highly anticipated, and the land swap
proposal is garnered attention not only from environmental
groups, but also for its potential impact on local
recreational opportunities and conservation efforts.
Exchanges, viewed by some as a way to enhance the state's
Environmental Conservation initiatives and critics of this
land swap, including environmental groups and
indigenous tribes, argue that Spacex's expansion encroaches on
culturally and environmentally sensitive areas.
They fear that the swap could exacerbate this issue, leading
to further degradation of important lands.
Now, this decision to move up the vote on the land swap is a
special meeting suggests an urgency that aligns with
Spacex's operational timelines. They could be playing in favor
to SpaceX and Starship, and this has raised concerns about the
thoroughness of the public's examination of the plan and its
implications. At a recent news conference,
environmental and indigenous representatives voiced their
opposition to this land swap, highlighting the cultural and
environmental significance of the affected areas.
They argue the Spacex's activities threatened the
integrity of these lands. The transformation of the Rio
Grande Valley by Spacex's operations has been a point of
contention, too, with local communities and
environmentalists raising concerns about the impact of
noise, light pollution and construction on the area's
natural and social environment. Now, legal challenges to
Spacex's expansion, such as the lawsuit against the FAA, show
that there's an ongoing conflict between development and
Environmental Conservation in this region.
The proximity of the proposed land swap to key wildlife
habitats has alarmed these conservationists, who stressed
the importance of protecting these areas for the biodiversity
they support, especially for migratory and wintering birds.
I want to know what you think of the comments.
Do you think it's OK for environmentalists to push back
against SpaceX? Do you think we should look in
the environment before we build any sort of structure for a
future spacefaring species? I'm in between here.
I think it's important for us to become a spacefaring species.
We need to go multiplanetary. But also, I love the Earth, it's
the best planet and we live here.
So I'm kind of torn. And the ownership and management
of the lands involved in the proposed swap, as well as their
environmental and cultural value, are central to the debate
surrounding this issue. The outcome of the TPW DS
decision could have lasting implications for the region now
this proposed land exchange. It's complex.
There's Environmental Conservation, industrial
expansion, and community interest as well.
While some view this swap as a necessary step for environmental
stewardship, others see it as a threat to the area's natural and
cultural heritage. The upcoming TPWD meeting will
be a crucial moment in determining the future of these
lands, but more importantly, it's crucial for people becoming
multiplanetary. In this next section, Elon Musk
talks about the future of AI. Stay tuned.
Well, I I generally think that that that it is good for
government to play a role when the public safety is, is at
risk. So you know really for the vast
majority of software the public safety is not at risk.
I mean if if the app crashes on your phone or your laptop, it's
not a massive catastrophe. But when talking about digital
super intelligence I think which does pose a risk to the public,
then there is a role for government to play to safeguard
the interests of the public. And and this is of course true
in, in many fields. You know, aviation cars, you
know, I deal with regulators throughout the world because of
stalling, being communications, rockets being aerospace and
cars, you know, being tracked, vehicle transport.
So very familiar with dealing with with regulators.
And I actually agree with the vast majority of regulations.
There's a few that I disagree with from time to time.
But point 1% probably well less than 1% of regulations I
disagree with. So there is some concern from
people in Silicon Valley who who never dealt with regulators
before and they think that this is going to just crush
innovation and and slow them down and be annoying and and and
it will be annoying. It's true they're not wrong
about that but but I think there's we've learned over the
years that having a referee is a good thing and if you look at
any sports game there's always a a referee and and nobody's
suggesting I have a sports game without one and and I think
that's the the right way to think about this is for for
governed to be a a referee to make sure the sportsmanlike
conduct and and and that the public safety is you know is is
addressed that we care about public safety.
Because I think there might be at times too much optimism about
technology and I speak I say that as a technologist I mean so
I ought to know and and and and like I said on on balance I
think that that the AI will be a forceful good most likely but
the probability of it going bad is not 0%.
So we we just need to mitigate the downside potential The the
pace of of AI is faster than any technology I've seen in history
by far and it's it seems to be growing in capability by at at
least five full perhaps 10 full per year.
It'll certainly grow by an order of magnitude next year.
So so and and and government isn't used to moving at that
speed, but I but I think even if there are not firm regulations,
even if there's not, even if there isn't an enforcement
capability. So we're having insight and
being able to highlight concerns to the public will be very
powerful. So even if that's all that's
accomplished, I think that will be very, very good.
I mean the the two currently the two leading Centers for AI
development are the San Francisco Bay area and the and
the sort of London area and there are many other places
where it's being done, but those are the two leading areas.
So I think if you know if the United States and the UK and and
China are sort of aligned on on safety that's all going to be a
a good thing because that's really that's where that's
that's where the the leadership is.
Generally if if we don't if if China is not on board with AI
safety it it's somewhat of a mood situation.
The single biggest objection but I get to in kind of AI
regulation or or sort of safety controls are well China's not
going to do it and therefore they will just jump into the
lead and exceed us all. But but actually China is
willing to participate in AI safety and thank you for
inviting them and I and they you know I think we should thank
China for for attending. When I was when I was in China
earlier this year the my main subject of discussion with this
the leadership in China was AI safety and saying that this this
is really something that they they should care about and they
took it seriously and and I'm and and you ought to which is
which is great and having them here I think was essential
really if they're if they're if they're not participants it's
it's pointless. Well the open source algorithms
and data tend to lag the closed source by 6 to 12 months but so
that so that given the rate of improvement that this actually
therefore quite a big difference between the the closed source
and the and the open. If things are improving by a
factor of let's say five or more than being a year behind is your
five times worse that's it's a pretty big difference and that
might be actually an OK situation but it it certainly is
will get to the point where you've got open source AI that
can do that that will start to approach human level
intelligence will perhaps succeeded.
I don't know quite what to do about it.
I I I think it's somewhat inevitable that there'll be some
amount of open source and I I I guess I would have a slight bias
towards open source because at least you can see what's going
on there was a closed source you don't know what's going on.
Now, it should be said with AI that even if it's open source,
do you actually know what's going on?
Because if you've got a gigantic data file and, you know, sort of
billions of of of data points or weights and parameters, you
can't just read it and see what it's going to do.
It's a gigantic file of inscrutable numbers.
You can test it when you when you run it, you can test it.
You can run a bunch of tests to see what it's going to do.
But it's it's probabilistic as opposed to deterministic.
It's not it's not like traditional programming where
you've got it. Yeah you've got very discrete
logic and and and the outcome is very predictable and you can
read each line and see what each line's going to do.
A a neural net is just a whole bunch of probabilities.
I mean it sort of ends up being a giant comma separated value
file. It's like our digital God is a
CSB file. If if you have a magic genie
that can do everything you want. I I I do think we we it's it's
it's hard you know when it when when this new technology tends
to have usually follow an S curve.
In this case we're going to be on the exponential portion of
the S curve for a long time and you know we have like so you'll
be able to ask for anything. It won't be and we won't have
universal basic income. We'll have universal high
income. So in some in some sense it'll
be somewhat of a leveller or an equalizer, you know, because
really I think everyone will have access to this magic genie
and you're able to ask any question.
It'll be certainly be good for education, you it'll be the best
tutor you could and then the most patient tutor, except
they're all there and there will be no shortage of goods and
services will be an age of abundance I think.
If I I'd recommend people read in banks, the the banks culture
books are probably the best envisioning.
In fact, not probably. They're definitely by far the
best envisioning of an AI future.
There's nothing even close, so I'd recommend really recommend
Banks Very big fan. All these books are good,
doesn't say which one, all of them.
So so that's that that'll give you a sense of what is AI.
Guess a fairly utopian protopian future with with AI.
Eventually when we were talking earlier, I have to somewhat
engage in deliberate suspension of disbelief because I'm I'm
putting so much blood, sweat and tears into a work project and
burning the, you know, 3:00 AM oil.
Then I'm like, wait, why am I doing this?
I can just wait for the AI to do it.
I'm just lashing myself for no reason.
Must be a glutton for punishment or something.
So I think it's probably is generally a good thing because
you know, there are a lot of jobs that are uncomfortable or
dangerous or sort of tedious and the computer will have no
problem doing that. We're happy to do that all day
long. So you know, it's fun to cook
food, but it's not that fun to wash the dishes and like, but
the computer's perfectly happy to wash the dishes.
I guess there is you know we still have sports like where
where where humans compete in like the Olympics and obviously
a machine can can go faster than any human but we still have we
still humans race against each other and and have all you know
we have at least sports competitions against each other
where even though the machines are better we're actually I
guess competing to see who can be the best human at something
and and people do find performance in that.
So I guess that's perhaps a a good example of how even when
machines are faster than us, stronger than us, we still find
a way we still we still enjoy competing against other humans.
We certainly tutors are going to be amazing apps already are.
I think there's also apps companionship which may seem odd
because how can the computer really be your friend.
But if you if you have an AI that has memory you know and
remembers all of your interactions and has read every,
you're going to say like give it permission to read everything
you've ever done. So it really will know you
better than anyone perhaps even yourself and and and where you
can talk to it every day and and those conversations bolt upon
each other. You will actually have a great
friend as as long as that friend can stay your friend and not get
turned off or something. But I think that will actually
be a real thing and I've one of my sons is is sort of has some
learning disabilities and has trouble making friends actually
and and I was like well you know he an AI friend would actually
be great for him. This next story is interesting.
It's about a New Jersey resident who is a Starlink thief with
over 675 units. Let's take a listen to this.
It's very intriguing. A New Jersey resident has been
apprehended for the alleged trafficking of a substantial
number of SpaceX Starlink terminals, estimated at 675
units, acquired through illicit means, involving stolen credit
card details and compromised Starlink billing accounts.
According to law enforcement authorities, this guy, Kelvin
Rodriguez Moya, 35, faced arrest after being intercepted by the
police on December 4th. He was in possession of 223
Starlink terminals while driving a big up truck and trailer
shortly after departing from a residence in Lawrence Township,
NJ. As stated in the criminal
complaint now, the shipping labels on the terminals
indicated various names, but were all directed to a single
address. This anomaly raised suspicions
and prompted the Lawrence Township Police to initiate an
investigation following a tip off regarding the unusual volume
of Starlink terminals being delivered to one particular
home. Now, during the police
surveillance, Rodriguez Moya was observed loading a FedEx
consignment of the terminals onto his vehicle, and the police
stop revealed the extent of this operation, with Moya confessing
that he was compensated $300 to transport the terminals to
Newark for resale purposes. Now the investigation uncovered
that the total worth of the Starlink terminals involved in
this scheme amounted to approximately $400,000.
Bennett Wu from SpaceX, responsible for payment risk and
fraud, described the seizure of the company's quote most
extensive fraud recovery to date, highlighting the
significant scale of the separation.
Now, Lieutenant Kevin Redding of the Lawrence Township Police
provided insights into the ongoing investigation,
indicating that the case's complexities are still being
unraveled with the assistance of SpaceX to understand the
procurement process of these terminals.
Now Starling terminals are in very high demand globally right
now, offering high speed Internet connectivity via
Spacex's satellite constellation and their significant extends
beyond civilian years, though attracting interest from
military and governmental bodies worldwide, further complicating
the implications of such a trafficking operation.
Now the situation took an international turn when
Ukrainian intelligence reported the use of Starlink terminals by
Russian military forces in occupied Ukrainian territories,
a claim the SpaceX under Elon Musk's leadership has denied,
stating no direct or indirect sales were made to Russia.
And following his arrest, Rodriguez Moya faces charges
related to receiving and trafficking stolen property,
highlighting the serious nature of the allegations against him.
Now details emerge from a recorded police interview where
Rodriguez Moya recounted his involvement with the Starlink
terminals dating back to November, introducing individual
named Alberto who played a part in orchestrating the shipments
to the Roxboro Road address. Now the Lawrence Township
Police's discovery of the stolen property resulted from a
meticulously conducted 3 month investigation leading to
Rodriguez Moya's arrest and the revelation of a sophisticated
operation leveraging stolen credit card information for
acquiring the terminals. Now, initial police alerts were
triggered by the abnormal volume of shipments to the Roxboro Road
address, with subsequent investigations revealing the
online purchase and delivery mechanism exploited by the
perpetrators for their operations.
And the seizure of over 200 terminals during a vehicular
stop marked a breakthrough in this case.
Though they provided tangible evidence of the trafficking
operation and enabled the recovery of a fraction of the
stolen assets. Spacex's official statement on
the magnitude of the fraud recovery shows that this is
pretty big deal and it's the largest operation within the
company's history and it sets a new benchmark for fraud related
losses and recoveries. For SpaceX and Starlink Now, the
progression saw involvement from federal authorities too.
With the FBI being notified indicating the potential broader
ramifications of this case, and the interagency collaboration
required to address such sophisticated criminal
activities, You have to wonder, what did they do with these
terminals? Who did they sell them to?
Did they sell them out of the United States?
Those questions will hopefully be answered in the months to
come, and despite attempts to reach Rodriguez Moya's legal
representatives for comments, there was no immediate response,
leaving many questions unanswered to us regarding his
defense and the allegations. Specifics.
Now the use of the Lawrence Township location as a
logistical hub for the stolen properties distribution paints
kind of a picture of a well organized operation, leveraging
the anonymity and efficiency of online transactions to
perpetrate large scale fraud. Now Rodriguez Moya is awaiting a
detention hearing. The case remains A focal point
for law enforcement and also SpaceX.
They're coming for this guy, reflecting the ongoing
challenges in combating sophisticated digital fraud, in
the importance of safeguarding against such vulnerabilities in
an increasingly connected world. And also Starlink.
They're worth a lot of money. People want to get their hands
on them. Sometimes it's hard to get them.
When I was in Boca Chica, Texas, when I lived in Brownsville and
I was covering Spacex's Starship, I would have thought I
could have gotten a Starlink immediately, because that's
where SpaceX is based. Almost.
But I had to wait almost a year just to get signed up for a
terminal. And my sister, who lives in
rural New York, she had to wait two years for hers.
Finally got it. But they're in high demand still
now. The arrest of Calvin Rodiguez
Moya in New Jersey for trafficking stolen SpaceX
Starlink terminals. It's a complex issue.
It's a huge operation, hundreds of thousands of dollars, and the
investigation is ongoing. We'll keep you up to date here
on the Elon Musk podcast. Hey, thank you so much for
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