Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Elon Musk Podcast.
I'm your host, Will Walden, and if you're new here, this is a
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for the show. David, Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Senator Warner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Fochner, it's good to see you again.
I got to pick up where my friend the Senator from Minnesota.
You would agree that IRS has antiquated systems.
Yes, Sir. Do you agree with independent
assessments that you not adding a single new tax, but actual
enforcement of existing laws could generate, you know, over a
10 year period excess of $500 billion?
Some people have said a trillion.
Do you think those independent assessments are accurate?
I'm skeptical of those numbers that we could, that there's that
amount that we could actually incrementally collect.
I think that it, again, as I mentioned to the previous set of
questions, where I think we can best improve enforcement is by
having better data so that we have tax enforcement people
going where the pockets of tax evasion are most likely.
I agree on the data, but I just, I just, you know, and, and, and,
and I know you we talked about this in the office, but the just
the idea, OK, we're going to not deal with taxpayer services, but
if it appears that it is open season and we're going to cut
back 50,000 folks even with additional technology or a total
of 50,000 folks, you know, we talked about this somewhere.
Yeah, I was a business guy for a long time.
And I think that would be a stupid business decision.
Many of us and I, we didn't come to agreement, but many of my
Republican friends, including the chairman, we talked about
this at times and recognized that there was, you know,
additional dollars in the IRS could actually save taxpayer
money because we would have better enforcement.
And we, I echo completely, we need the new systems.
But I just, I am hugely concerned and I'm not going to
beat you up the way everybody else does.
I think they've already have on the Doge boys and what they're
doing in national security. And it is it is beyond it is
making our country less safe. But I'm just plain dollars and
cents basis. I, I, I think the notion that
you can the, the 12,000 people that have been fired, you are
going to make no difference that that number goes up to 50,000 is
going to make no difference. Define defies the reality that
all of us on both sides of the aisle had and we may have agreed
had different numbers, we agreed about how much new investment,
but that IRS was woefully under invested in.
We needed to upgrade our systems.
We need to bring back modern technology and I am I'm
extraordinarily afraid that we are going to take a giant step
back this way. Bringing in a thoughtful
approach on any of these issues would make sense.
I don't believe that's taking place.
But I, I do want to touch on one thing that we I think we agree
on. And I want to make sure I can
get the chairman nodding on this since he and I have been
partners on this. Is this CDF is community
development financial institutions.
You know, under the first Trump administration, we made record
investments, $12 billion, nine billion of which went for tier
one capital. We've seen that field expand
nine to 10 fold over the last decade.
It is a broadly bipartisan issue.
We have 28 members, 14 Democrats, 14 Republicans on
this caucus. You know, Senator Crapo and I
have worked on things like can we get a secondary market
started in CDFI debt, which could again further expand that
opportunity. We've worked together as well as
trying to get on the Economic Opportunity Coalition to try to
get dollars deposits in. I ask Secretary Beson on this
question, but would you continue to agree to work with me and us
on CF IS? And Senator Warner, you do have
me nodding on this. I want.
To make sure, I was hoping I was getting you nodding on the IRS
conversation too, because I can remember some of those
conversation. But like I said.
Senator Warner, I, I'm happy to hear reiterate what you and I
discussed in your office, which is that for the last six months
of the first Trump administration, CDF is reported
into me. They are that they are, they
exist because there are geographies in our in our
country where there are unbanked and underbanked people, largely
rural areas where the infrastructure costs do not
merit the creation of standalone branches.
And so I commit to you that we will continue to I.
Would argue that it is not simply rural but I but.
Predominantly rural. We we can litigate that another
time. I just have to tell you, and
this is, you know, some who are talking about, you know, on the
tax debate, current law versus current policy.
I, I believe if any business entities said, well, we're going
to presume that we didn't have to pay for the cost of
production increases because that's our current policy.
Even though those policies were supposed to end at a certain
point and you operated on those financial premises rather than
the current law. I think you get, I think the
Donald Trump, the TV host would say you're fired because the
idea that you're going to somehow cover up four plus
trillion dollars of tax cuts and not count it is the kind of
accounting that I hope we were going to get away from at a debt
that's now at 36 trillion. I think it is grossly fiscally
irresponsible. And I hope and pray that you and
my colleagues on the other side that we can have a robust
discussion on that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, sister Senator Warner and I will just say there's a
big difference between saying you won't pay for something and
saying you won't raise $4 trillion of taxes on people.
Mr. Mr. Chairman, as we all know, we went, we spent a lot of
time on these subjects, and this is the kind of a Congressional,
don't look here while we take your money there and just
because a tax cut is put in place or spending program is put
in place. Hey, thank you so much for
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