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Humanitarian efforts in in Ukraine.
So I wanted to know exactly how those dollars were being spent
and not. Just a reasonable request.
Yes, Oh my gosh. And and I shared this with you
earlier, Elon, just privately, but we got all kinds of threats
from USAID because I was trying to exercise my oversight
capacity in Congress. So they that's that's.
Just shocking. I mean, it's, it's how I mean
honestly, it's, it's outrageous that a, a taxpayer funded
organization would threaten AUS senator who is simply trying to
figure out if American taxpayer money is being spent correctly
and, and, and not fraudulently. Yes.
And So what my staff and I had estimated was that 30 to 40% of
of the USAI DS awards would go to indirect costs.
So their, their overhead, you know, their rents, employees,
what are they looking at? But the bank, OK, but but OK,
after months and months and months of obstruction where
USAID wouldn't let us in, they told us the, the, the NYCRA that
negotiated indirect cost rate agreements is a lot of, you
know, government jargon. But anyway, the, the indirect
cost, they said that the database, oh, it doesn't exist.
That was a lie. That was a lie.
It was false because we found it.
And then we were told we weren't allowed to access the database.
And then that's when Congressman McCall and I came together and
we launched an official congressional investigation so
that we could gain access to the raids.
And then after about 6 more months of negotiations, then my
staff was finally allowed to access very limited data.
They were allowed to go into a room and they couldn't take
notes. They were on camera the whole
time. They couldn't remove any of the
information. But what my staff found is you
were laughing at that 30 to 40% because that is outrageous.
That was understated. In some of the cases, the NYFRA
rates were upwards towards anywhere from 50 to 60%.
And that doesn't include the cost for subcontractors, what
the subcontractors were adding on.
So this is the problem with USAID and that's why, Elon, I'm
just, I am with you on this because so much of that taxpayer
money is not even going to, you know, we love to feel good about
helping starving children and name your country, but it's not
going there. It's going to it's going to pay
rent in Paris. It's going to support somebody's
fancy dinner to entertain whoever.
Yeah, exactly. So to be clear, in shutting
down, which we're in the process of doing shutting down USAID,
the the, the, the reason for that as opposed to simply, you
know, trying to do, do some minor house cleaning, is, is
that as we dug into the USAUSAID, it became apparent
that what we have here is, is not an apple with a worm in it,
but we have actually just a bowl of worms.
And so at the point which you don't really like, if you've got
an apple, it's got a worm in it, maybe you can take the worm out.
But if you've got actually just a bowl of worms, it's hopeless.
And yours ID is a bowl of worms. There, there is no apple.
And when there is no apple, this, this, you've just got to
basically get rid of the whole thing.
That is why it's it's got to go. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's
beyond, it's beyond repair. So yeah.
There's a solution to this, which is that let's say
something's got that the people of this country just demand
needs to exist again, it can always be voted back into
existence by Senator Ernst and her colleagues.
And and totally the fact that that isn't going to happen.
Exactly, exactly why many of these agencies, you know.
Really, deletion is the only answer that's left.
Well, yes. Well, well, that's exactly
right. If if if, if it turns out we
really need such an organization in the future, we just create
it. Problem solved.
By the people. Yes, by the people, answerable
and and answerable to the people and to the people's elected
representatives. That is the way that government
is supposed to work. That I I agree and more
transparency, you know, sunshine is the best disinfectant out
there and then. It's sunshine that tells you
something. Yeah.
So, you know, we really, we need to be able to exercise our
oversight. And this is where we have been
blocked so long in Congress. I mean, you can go on to my on
to my official website on the Internet.
You can look through my priorities, go to my my squeal
area. You can go back.
I've got the last several years on there of, of efforts, whether
it's USAID, you know, NIH, the National Institutes of Health,
those taxpayer dollars that were going to China's Wuhan Institute
of Virology, SNAP over payments through USDA and the state.
I mean, you name it, the gosh, just even my back to work, my
back to work report, you know, the out of the office that we've
talked so much about. And on day one, you know, the
president came in and said, hey, everybody back to work.
You know, I don't, I don't think most Americans understand that
only 6% of our federal workforce shows up to work in the office
every single day. Only 6%, yes.
And that's really, it's, it's truly insane, in fact, and, and
the, one of one of the most insane things I've seen was that
I, I was speaking with the, with the hopefully asking to be
Attorney General Pam Bondi. And, and she, she, she was
telling me that the, the US engraving is Russia.
I guess we're used to the US Mint, which is actually the,
the, the building that is an historic building, actually a, a
beautiful building is, is here in DC and the windows are all
broken and has turned into a homeless encampment.
That that means like this nobody, nobody like this, no one
comes to work to such a degree that this beautiful building has
all windows broken and has turned into a homeless
encampment in downtown DC. That's how absurd it is.
It's it's beyond belief. Yeah.
And that's why so, so many of these buildings, if, if we could
repopulate them, that would be great.
And that way we can have oversight and make sure
employees are are doing what they're supposed to do.
You know, I'm going to hammer on USAID one more time.
You know, we, yeah. So we, we talk about the
locality pay abuse. And that's what happens when
people aren't working in the office, what they're doing in DC
and not everyone. I don't want to accuse every
federal worker of being a bad actor, but but I have seen so
many examples of this. We had a USAID employee that was
falsely using an office supply retailer's mailing address, you
know, think like Staples and places like that, using that
address in Virginia to defraud the taxpayers by claiming higher
Washington, DC, DC locality pay. But they were actually living in
another state full time and they had the full knowledge and
assistance of their supervisor in pulling off this scam.
And then the and then the IG. The USAIDIG blew off my request
for an investigation. What did they give?
Well that that seems I mean these.
How can they do that? They can.
How can? They.
This is the problem we have is that there are checks and
balances in place where we can write letters all day and we can
request IG oversight, but if that IG says I'm not going to
investigate, I'm not interested. I, as a United States Senator,
don't have the power to force them to do it, and This is why
I'm so excited that we have DOGE and that we have a president
that's willing to back us up. Absolutely.
So really, none of this could be done without the full support of
the president, You know, and with regard to the USAID stuff,
I went, went over it with him, you know, in detail.
And, and he, he agreed with the that we should, we should shut
it down. I mean, that's, I want to be
clear. That's, you know, and I actually
checked with him a few times, you know, Are you sure?
Like, yes. So we're shutting it down.
And yeah, it's it's a, it's also incredibly politically partisan
and has been supporting radical left causes throughout the
world, including things that are anti American, which is insane.
Right. And that's why, you know, they,
there are probably some arguments to be made about what
could be important work that falls under USAID.
But the fact of the matter is that it's been, it has been
overshadowed by these bad actors.
So if they are truly good pro American programs, then let's
move them to the State Department.
Let's make sure we have proper oversight.
Let's make sure that when senators and congressmen are
asking for documents that they provide them in a timely manner.
Let's make sure the I GS are upfront and honest and wanting
to be the watchdog over the agencies that they are charged
with. I mean, this is not rocket
scientist and you're a rocket scientist.
This is. This is this is common, this is
simply common sense and and being responsive to the
electorate and you know, that's, that's you, you just can't have
these institute these sort of institutions which are taking
less taxpayer money, but then are are not answerable to to
elected representatives of the public.
Then it's they're totally disconnected.
So I it's sort of, I call it like we, we must move away from
rule of the Bureau to, to rule of the the people, demos and.
You know, I'm, I would say I'm hopeful that some of this
creates momentum joining with centers with some of your
colleagues as well in passing the REINS Act, right.
I mean, half of this is decades of Congress effectively just
punting off the responsibility to avoid accountability.
Not not you, but many of your colleagues over the years.
And, you know, hopefully if this is a catalyst to say Congress in
the Senate, say we make take the law making power back to the
elected representatives of the people and, you know, get the
kinds of things done that haven't gotten done for years,
like the Rains Act and other mechanisms to say law making
power comes back to Congress, I think that could be one of the
best things to come out of all of this.
I'm hopeful that happens this time.
I know you're supportive. Yeah.
I mean.
Like fundamentally, there's, there's, there's got to be a
feedback loop to the people. You can't have these
organizations that are just disconnected from the, the, the
will of the people. Like I said, you just
fundamentally do not have a democracy in that situation.
You have you have tyranny of the bureaucracy, which is just
inappropriate and needs to end. By the way, like, you know,
who's pumped up about you bringing everybody back to work
is actually Muriel Bowser, mayor of DC.
And you're talking about the homeless encampments.
I talked to her maybe what, last month or month and a half ago?
And that's a Democrat. Doesn't matter.
It's basically the base principle of A, self governance
and B, saving money and making sure that our buildings aren't
being infested by homeless invasion, but instead is
actually creating a thriving capital.
You know, I think is is shockingly a bipartisan idea.
If we give people the permission to come out as Democrats and say
those things make sense, which I think we're seeing, some of
which I think is cool. You're absolutely right.
The lack of people showing up for work in DC has actually made
DC look like a ghost town. It's in fact, I mean, parts of
it really, it looks kind of post apocalyptic in parts of DC
because once you, once people start coming to work, then then
the restaurants close down and the stores close down and then
you just have boarded up stores and restaurants and it destroys
the, the small businesses in, in that in downtown DC.
So, you know, yeah. And it's there's a reason why
where people come to work and and are more effective and more
collaborative in one place. Yeah.
We're sort of rediscovering why do you have officers?
Oh, it turns out there's a reason, you know, so and the
president has made made this world clear.
Like they returned to work. That's it.
End of story. You know so.
I think the first two weeks have been pretty massive.
And if it continues at that rate, I mean even if you think
about one of the big economic questions right now is the 10
year treasury rates, right, they're going up.
Bond markets don't like our national debt.
If this is the pace of what cutting looks like presented in
a a coherent plan, I'm hopeful that bond investors and credit
investors in the US government debt can at least say, OK, this
is positive progress, which actually will bring down not
only the costs that you're cutting directly, but also our
interest rate costs. And I think that's really when
we hit a, you know, virtuous cycle here, which I think could
happen soon. No, I, I agree actually the, the
bond marks do not, the bond marks do not currently reflect
the savings that that I'm confident we can achieve.
And I'm actually, I'm giving a talk later this week with the JP
Morgan Chase and Jamie Dimon. And let's develop it.
Obviously a financial audience and, and, and really to just to
say, look, if if you're shorting bonds, I think you're on the
wrong side of the bet. Yeah.
I mean, you know, it's, it's basically.
Seriously. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's
like really like basically the, the bond, I mean, the, the there
will, there will be less debt needed as we, as we stop wasting
taxpayer money on, on hasty things like, you know, like
whatever the the $50 million for condoms to Gaza, which I suspect
didn't actually end up being condoms in Gaza.
That's a lot of condoms, guys. What is that a super tank or
condoms? I mean how many they need.
Oh my gosh, you guys. That's a real line item.
Well, don't. I don't doubt that, that we did
have those items going to Gaza. I don't know if it was that
many, but. The.
Problem. Yeah, well, it was it was
probably that line item, but God knows.
What it was, really. Right, exactly.
But that's the problem we have with the budget and why when
monies flow through all of these entities, we may have a line
item that goes to say USAID and or maybe goes through USAID to
the United Nations. And then from the United
Nations, it goes to a subcontractor and from that
subcontractor it goes to someone else.
It is a nightmare trying to follow that money and to
understand what is actually being used for.
So again, going back to the transparency, you know, we just,
we need to make sure that we have our eyes on it and that
it's easily accessible and maybe not just by members of Congress,
but also the public as well. I agree it should be if, if it's
public money being spent, it should be in full view of the
public. But and, and when they want to
hide the stuff, it, it frankly, it is the, the reality is it's
because there's massive fraud and abuse.
That's the reality. Nobody needs to hide something.
If, if unless they have something to hide, you know,
once in a while, you bet something that say an
intelligence operation or, or like, you know, that, that ha,
that actually needs to be classified.
But that's, that's, that's a rare situation.
That's a tiny fraction of, of, of, of, of expenditures.
The vast majority of these things is it, it's, it's
unfortunately a tremendous amount of, of fraud and abuse
now. And, and what the, the, the
reason that that is so extreme with the federal government is
that the, the checks never bounce for the federal
government. OK, So the federal government
can always make more money. And the problem is that that in,
in, in doing so, that's what creates inflation.
Something that I really want to reinforce for people is that
it's government spending that creates inflation.
So when you see prices go up at the grocery store, it's because
the government spent more money than it brought it into taxes,
increased the money supply, diluted the value of money and,
and, and made your made your paycheck go be less valuable.
It means, it means like the, the prices are going up because of,
of, of government induced spending, of government spending
that results in inflation. So now it's, it's just very
important to connect those dots because people don't they, they
sort of think like, well, maybe the, the supermarket is taking
advantage of them and, and they're, they're not, you can
look at the financials of supermarket.
They have like 2% margins. So it's, it's, it's got nothing
to do with price gouging of supermarket.
It's just that the, the government spent too much that,
that increased the money supply and diluted the value of
somebody's paycheck. And that's why the prices go up
at the, at the grocery store. So the, the, but the good news
is if, if we, if we solve government overspending and the
money supply grows at the same rate as the output of goods and
services, there will be no inflation and the prices in the
supermarket now will be the same as the prices in the supermarket
in a year. And that's the Super big deal.
And that really effects people's lives.
That's what we're aiming for. And we're going to do everything
possible to succeed in that goal.
And I think every dollar saved, I mean, the problem you just
mentioned, Elon, is exactly why in your interest rates on U.S.
Treasuries are persistently going up, even if the
government's trying to make them go down, the markets bidding
them right back up. But conversely, for every
dollar, hard dollar actually saved, right?
So how many of a billion it was in the first two weeks?
There's actually it's almost like a 2 to one saving because
that means that the interest rate that lenders to the US
government charge will go down. At a time when the interest rate
payment itself on our national debt is one of the biggest items
of our federal budget. Yeah.
So that automatically comes down for every one of these other
savings. Exactly.
And the only thing to be presented as a coherent plan
which which I think we're you're already beginning to do that
alone. I think we'll have a 2 to one
savings for every dollar that's actually hard dollar that's
actually saved because you get the interest cost next year that
comes down as a consequence as well.
Yeah, that that's, that's actually a very good point just
made. I just want to basically repeat
that and reiterate that for the audience.
When you, you, you get, you actually get a double benefit
when you bring down government spending it and it's a, it's a
very important double benefit, which is that you, you, you stop
inflation and interest payments go down because the government
is no longer borrowing money. Like, so if, if the government
is borrowing money, it's actually competing with everyone
else to borrow money and, and that drives up the interest
rate. So, so if we solve government
spending in a in a nutshell, your, your grocery bill stays
the same, your mortgage payment goes down and your car payment
goes down and and your credit card bill goes down.
Exactly. That's that's so I mean, I think
that's what the people of America want.
I mean, obviously. Yeah, I couldn't agree more,
gentlemen. I mean, it's it's really
important. And I, you know, I'm sitting
here tonight in Iowa and, you know, I, I took my mom to church
this morning and man, everybody at church, we all kind of stand
around afterwards and visit and everybody's just really excited
about the opportunity that the new administration is, is
bringing because costs are just through the roof for people in
my neighborhood in southwest Iowa.
I mean, it's, it's hard. These are folks just getting up
every single morning trying to do their job and do the best.
And yet we as a government have failed to listen to their needs.
And then to be able to to cut the spending at the federal
level, to make sure that their taxes stay low and make sure
that we are paying down our debt.
No more deficit spending. Let's try and balance this
budget as best we can. And we've heard plans from, you
know, Ron Johnson and and others in the Congress.
But we've really got to get serious about it because like
every one of my constituents owes $67,000 to our national
debt. That's outrageous.
And it's getting worse over time.
So really, if we don't do something about it, America, is
it going to go bankrupt? That's the fact.
So we must do something about it.
It's imperative. Senator Mike Lee, I see you've
joined. Would you like to add something
to this conversation or you've got some great stuff as well to
talk about? Yeah, I'd love to.
Thanks so much for the invitation.
Look, I see this as an inflection point.
Every 75 to 90 years in Anglo American history, we've seen a
major upheaval. We had one in 1776, another one
in 1861, another one in 19372025.
We're due for one. And I think that's going to be
the Doge revolution. And I think it has to be about
much more than just the individualized wasteful spending
had projects. At the core of all this is a
fundamental ailment, which is that we've misconstrued the
purpose of the United States government.
It's supposed to be about just a small handful of things waits
and 90 years trademarks, copyrights and patents
regulating enters that foreign commerce.
Yeah, no, no, I mean, the founders of the country would,
it would blow their minds that the that the federal government
has gotten so gigantic and, and, and is interfering with people's
lives in so many ways. That's exactly right.
And then we've compounded the problem.
Once we lost track of of what the federal government's purpose
is, we put the wrong branch in charge of the wrong
responsibilities. We've been making most of our
law, 100,000 pages a year through the executive branch,
which the Constitution says you can't do.
It says you cannot make a federal law unless you go
through both houses of Congress and then give it to the
president. So we've destroyed federalism
and separation of powers. I think for Doge to succeed, we
have to restore both of those. In my view, the best way to
start is by passing the REINS Act, which would require
Congress to enact those laws. And I think to get that this
year, we've got to attach it to the debt ceiling.
Bill I, Adam, my base, Mike Lee. I can't, I mean.
I actually one, one 100%. I mean, what are you saying?
Is that absolutely true? The, the, there's vast amounts
of federal right regulation, which are de facto laws that
are, that are created that, that it's, it's an incomprehensible
amount. It's literally no human could
possibly even comprehend it. If you tried your hardest your
whole life, you couldn't, you could, you could barely
understand a small fraction of the regulations that, that and,
and, and these regulations, you know, if you look at them,
there's millions of them. And it's not like one regulation
is, is the showstopper. But, but it's, I mean, the way I
sort of visualize it, it's like, it's like Gulliver, like
America's like Gulliver tied down by millions of little
strings and, and we need to cut those strings and free the
giant. Exactly.
That's exactly right. Those, those laws which they are
laws, those will put you in prison.
Those will shut down your business.
Those will ruin your life if you did.
Exactly no different than any of the law.
It's it's, it's totally crazy. Well, it is exciting, Elon,
isn't it true President Trump has has an executive order that
says for every one new regulation that is put into
place, 10 have to be rescinded. Yes.
Yes, and now of course, the, the, the, the, you know,
bureaucracy is going to try to gain that by like having the one
regulation sort of, you know, when like, so he says, well, I
have, everyone can ask one question, but then have a
question in like 10, in like 3, you know, 10 parts.
So it's possible to gain, it's possible, it's possible to gain
the regulations. So I, I, I think in addition to
that executive order, which I certainly applaud, I think we
need to go in and do wholesale like removal of regulations,
like regulations basically should be default gone, default
gone, not default there, default gone.
And and if it turns out that we missed the mark on a regulation,
we always add it back in. These regulations are added
Willy nilly all the time. So we just got to do wholesale
spring cleaning of regulation and get the government off the
backs of, of, of, of everyday Americans so people can get
things done. And, and the government isn't,
it doesn't have a sort of boot on the neck of, of the average
Americans, which is because you know, what, what are the, what
are the, you know, the core founding values of this country?
What, what has made America great, What will lead to further
greatness is a focus on merit that you get ahead as a function
of your hard work and skill and, and, and that you have freedom.
It's, it's, it's free. It's both the land of freedom
and opportunity. And, and if the government has
millions of regulations holding everyone back, well, it's not
freedom. We've got to restore freedom.
And by the way, that's copied, multiplied and 50 fold higher
where each of the 50 states then do the same thing.
And many of these federal regulations are duplicative of
the states doing the exact same thing where the bureaucracies in
each of the states are behaving like the federal government.
You think about the impact of people's lives.
It just layers one on top of the other.
And you know, like you talk about 0 based budgeting.
I really like this concept of 0 based regulations.
Yeah, the default is nothing and build back on top.
Exactly right. I mean it used.
And that's what our founders wanted, yeah.
Absolutely. It used to be like not that long
ago. If you wanted to start a
business, you just start a business.
You just go. You know, you, you know, you
just no license. You can just do it.
You know, the government's not like prying into every part of
like get the license for this, do the license for that, get
17,000 permits. I mean, like you look at La and,
and like how it's like, I mean, when I lived in LA, it was hard
to get a permit to remodel your kitchen.
And now with this disaster that's happened in LA, this
terrible tragedy, the just the sheer number of permits were
fired to build a house are staggering.
Basically, they've made it illegal.
So like there's, but we got to start somewhere on the
regulatory front and, and suddenly, at least if we address
federal regulation, then, you know, people can choose to move
from, move to, from one state to another and still remain in
America and, and move to the, the state that has, you know,
less regulation with the government is less, you know,
gives you more freedom. And you've got that competition
between states. You've got that federal system.
That was meant to be the case. That was how the country was,
was created. Like, let the states compete and
and and and and and. If your state is, is, is, is, is
being, is being oppressive, you can go to a neighboring state
and and live there. That's the whole idea.
Federalism is the answer, no doubt, but you got two things
going for us right now in the country that haven't happened in
a long time. 1 is a willing President Donald Trump who
actually believes everything that all four of us have just
said, which is a beautiful thing, and without that it
wouldn't be possible. The more I've gotten to know
President Trump, the more I like him.
Frankly, I love the guy. He's great.
Yeah. And he's he's he's full, he's
full bore more than any president we've had since the
creation of the administrative state.
So I think that's number one. And #2 is thanks to him actually
in his first term, you got a Supreme Court that six to three
vehemently agrees with everything we've just said.
Yes. And so I think it's possible.
Yeah, in fact. It's actually possible.
Yes, In fact, if if we if it's if it's not possible now, it'll
never be possible. This is our this is our shot.
This is the best hand of cards we're ever going to have.
And, and if we don't take advantage of this, this best
hand of cards is never going to happen.
So we're going to do it. I agree.
I would never, Yeah, now or never.
And I, I do think you're right, Vivek.
I mean, with the the first administration of President
Trump and kind of lessons learned through that
administration and now in the second administration, the stage
is set and he knows how to aggressively tackle a lot of
these issues that have plagued us for years.
And folks ask me, oh, Trump's, you know, first 100 days, was
it? What is that going to be like?
And I'm like, forget the 100 days folks.
You know it's going to happen a lot faster than that.
And he needs to continue to be aggressive.
So, and we all know there's going to be bumps along the way.
Of course there are because we're moving at the the speed of
relevance here. But we've got to get in there
and make an impact so that our constituents can actually see
the benefit because we've got a tough mid mid cycle or mid mid
presidential year election coming up in 2026.
And we cannot lose the House or the Senate because then the
president will be dead in the water.
Yeah. And we just need to move out.
Well, that that's move out, Yeah.
I mean, I think that's really the, the, the people will judge
the performance and whether actually we we got things done
and whether things were better off, you know, and in two years.
And I think if, if, if people feel like, yeah, they're better
off, the country's working better.
They feel like, you know, there's, you know, the reward
for, for hard work. Is there that that they're, you
know, their paychecks going further than it used to that
their standard of living is better?
You know, their mortgages lower the credit card bills lower the
prices at the at the at the stores are the same, you know,
haven't like risen dramatically. Then I think there's no problem
the the you know, we will win the next election.
The people will reward that performance.
So I think that's but, but you know, it's, that's, that's what
needs to happen. And if, but I think if it does
happen, there will be a Republican one in the midterms
and which is, which is usually, which is unusual.
But I think if, if, if we, if we make, make these goals happen, I
think we'll actually have an increased majority in the House
and Senate and you'll be able to continue to, to, you know, as
the president would say, make America great and, and even
greater so. Love it.
The case the the blanket that I mean, Elon, you and I have
talked about this. Mike Lee, you and I have talked
about this. But you know, might as well just
say it here as well is when in doubt, push it to the states,
right? If there's some doubt about OK,
well, we're not sure about this regulation.
You got a whole nuclear energy framework at the federal level.
You have an entire one in each of the 50 states.
Same thing for spending or some other program.
Are people going to really suffer if this is taken away?
Federalism is the answer. Just push it to the states.
And, you know, I think that that's a big part of, you know,
obviously what I'm looking to do next.
But it's governors across the state.
Whatever. Let them bear the load of what
the federal government needed because that's actually what the
founders envisioned in the 1st place.
And Mike, you've been a crusader for this since day one.
No, that, that, that is, that is right.
That is the, the whole reason I, I ran for this job 15 years ago.
The, the fact is the people of our country are upset.
They're upset about our government because it manages
things poorly. And what a lot of people are
starting to grasp is that it's not just a matter of changing
from the red team to the blue team and back to the red team
and making sure you've got better personnel in there,
because better personnel won't make those same mistakes and
won't fund the stupid studies about the drunk gerbils on a
treadmill. The the the point is, it's
poorly run because when the US government is doing all kinds of
things that it's not supposed to be doing, that should be left to
the states or to the people, in the words of the 10th Amendment,
it becomes very poor, very bad at doing you things that it is
supposed to do. You can't be good at running the
Pentagon and at at making sure that traffic lanes, lines of
commerce are open when you are doing all kinds of things that
the federal government wasn't built to do.
We're using it as the wrong tool.
There are very few things that federal government currently
does that the federal government is itself uniquely equipped and
constitutionally authorized to do.
That's what we got to get back to.
And that's why this is going to be a a painful, radical
transformational change in many circumstances.
But it's going to be a huge relief to the American people
once we get through the initial shock and once we get through
the stage where the the media is telling us the sky is going to
fall, dogs and cats living together in the streets,
apocalyptic stuff. Once they realize that's not
true, they're going to feel this huge burden lifted.
That's what we want. We want a better future for
America. We can't get to the.
Absolutely. Returning to our founding
document. Exactly, I couldn't agree with
you more and I'm actually pretty optimistic that we're going to
make it happen. You know, it's going to it's
going to this is this is I think things going to happen.
So the progress is good so far and if it keeps accelerating,
then I think it's going to it's going to be awesome.
So, you know, like, like the cost of excess, excess
regulation on, on economic growth and prosperity is like
really underestimated. Like if you basically, you know,
don't even permit, allow people to do things like make it
illegal. Well, you can't, you can't, the
boulders can't build. America is a nation of boulders.
And but, but we need to give the boulders permission to build.
And that's that's really what the deregulation is all about,
just letting people do things. Deregulation of meritocracy go
hand in hand. Actually, there are two sides of
this coin. And you want to actually measure
Doji's success is not just the deficit reduction.
I don't think that that's the sole metric, although it's a
really important one. And bringing down the national
debt and the interest payment cost as a consequence, that's
really important. But actually a lot of these
benefits of delivering economic growth won't be measured in this
year's deficit reduction, but will be measured in long run GDP
growth, long run economic growth.
What wrong or prosperity the country.
Yeah. And I think that that's that's
equally important. I actually, I'm optimistic that
we'll see the material impact in FY20 6, which starts in October.
You know, a lot of the stuff I think like, I think we'll make
significant gains in FY25 government, government financial
year 25, which ends, ends in September.
And, but, but I, I think that like we're, we're the sort of
metric we're tracking sort of kind of startup style or, or
just, and we're going to be posting more and more detail on
the, the DOGE website and DOGE handle on, on X is, is just in.
So we can see in detail like this is this is where where
we're seeing the delta in spending between current
spending and government financial year 25, which or 26,
which starts in, in October. And, and that, that number is,
is really, you know, which we think it's at this point over a
billion dollars there, maybe 2 billion, maybe approaching 3.
And, and, and, and I, I think we can, I think we can take a
trillion dollars out of the, out of the deficit next year.
Like, you know, obviously this is going to require, you know,
strong support from the president, but thus far we that
we certainly have that and also support of the Congress and
support and also hopefully support from the judiciary as
well. But, but it's, it's, I mean,
basically the goal in a nutshells is pretty
straightforward. It's like we have a $2 trillion
deficit, which is far, which is a far in excess of economic
growth. If we can get that deficit in
half from 2 trillion to one trillion and we can get the
economic growth to match that one trillion growth, the money
supply, that means there will be no inflation and the and the and
and and also the interest rates will drop.
Credit card interest down, mortgage interest down 4:00 PM
and interest down and, and, and prices at the store stay the
same. That is a great outcome for
people and I think we could say I think we can do it.
You know, people say it's unrealistic.
Yeah, people say it's unrealistic is it's.
But you know, the funniest part about this is just the hard
number here. And the four of us here know the
answer. But for people who are
listening, it might just be, might be eye opening.
Where like how much money did the federal government actually
spend last year? Not the mumbo jumbo non
discretionary this and not like just like how much did the
federal government spend last year?
It was about 7 trillion. It's just under $7 trillion.
How much did we spend in this like ancient time period known
as 20/19? Right, not that long.
Ago like this year called 2019. Not that long.
Well, kind of remember 2019, there's 4 1/2 less, less than
four and a half, 4.45 less than about four and a half trillion
dollars. That's 2 1/2 trillion right
there. So if you just go back to 2019,
that's 2 1/2 trillion, which is insane actually that they think
that that's impossible is 20/19 was not that long.
Ago, right? And you know, it's too.
Precisely, and nobody thought that they were an apocalyptic
hellscape underway in 20/19/22 was.
Pretty cool actually. I like 2019 well. 19 was not
some nightmarish hellscape, exactly.
In fact, we got and Mike. Things were just fine in 2019.
Mike can vouch for this too, though.
What we saw with COVID, as we were pushing all those dollars
out the door, they started a lot of programs with those dollars
and people just continue to expect those dollars to come
even though we're way beyond COVID, Yes, way beyond COVID.
So often people will say like, well, you can't reduce deficit
that much because what about all the entitlement spending?
You know, like there's the sort of guaranteed spending.
Well, but here's the thing, this and especially during COVID, as
you alluded to that there was actually a massive growth, a
massive increase in the amount of fraud and waste in
entitlements with with like fake people, like collecting Social
Security, like bogus payments to Medicare.
It is the level of fraud is actually staggering.
And it just cutting, cutting back on that.
And by the way, it's not just even US fraud rigs.
I don't think no people realize this, but there's the, the, the,
the estimates I've seen are between 100 and $200 billion in
foreign fraud fraud rings. There are professional foreign
fraud rings operating that are taking somewhere between 100 and
$200 billion a year of, of US taxpayer money out of the
country. And a lot of people realize that
it is. And like, so the fraud in this,
in that case isn't even going to American fraudsters.
It's going somewhere in other countries.
Well, Ivan, I sent that example to you the other day, sat down
with a friend of yours, works in ID technology, and he showed me
that video of a deep fake where it was a, it was a Chinese
scammer trying to receive U.S. Federal government benefits.
You know, just it's out. It's outrageous.
But so much of that money the Chinese scammers are taking out
of the pockets of our taxpayers. Yes, and, and I mean, there's
really, there's, there's, there's American entitlements
are being deported by people not even in the US and, and from,
from many other countries because the, the, the fraud
controls are so weak on the entitlements programs.
The, the, the due diligence is so, is so bad that it's actually
possible to, to operate hundreds, if not thousands of
fake people and get entitlements sent to you that you then take
the money out of the country, out of the United States.
This is happening as we speak. It's utterly insane.
So, so This is why I'm, I'm actually quite optimistic that,
that, that a trillion dollars can be saved just by addressing
waste, fraud and abuse. It, It, it's the like, like
it's, it's I, I, while it's a lot of work, I, I don't think
this is some instrumental task. I am confident it can be done.
And we'll do everything in our power to, to, to make it happen.
And, and I think that that'll be if, if, if we succeed, and I
hope, you know, I'd like to ask for the support of the American
people because we're going to get a lot of opposition.
Let me tell you, like you know, from the, what I remember most
from from one of the things I remember from the PayPal days
was that you know who complaints the loudest is the fraudsters.
OK, so, but like the when somebody is trying to commit
fraud to PayPal, where we see the most amount of righteous
indignation, like it would be like immediate over the top
righteous indignation was from the fraudsters, not from honest
people, because honest people are like, oh, I think there's
something wrong with my account. I guess I wonder what's wrong?
Let me inquire. And and but the fraudsters will
come at you immediately. This is, it's like, it's like a
tell you that that someone's actually doing for it because
the level of of sort of faux outrage is way over the top.
So, so we're going. To get a lot of that.
A lot of people claiming with, with, with fake outrage, you
know, claiming that they're sort of, you know, it's sort of a
single mother with, with, with kids just trying to feed them.
Meanwhile, it's like some dude operating a fraud ring out of
another country. Actually, you know, that's,
that's, that's what the kind of thing we'll see.
So really, you know, I would like to ask for the support of
the American people in pursuit of this goal.
And, and, and bearing in mind that we're going to see some
pretty outrageous stuff from the frauds as we crack down on
fraud, they're going to be the loudest complainers.
So, you know, to anyone in America listening to this US
sport in pursuit of this goal, it is very much appreciated.
Thank you. Absolutely.
And and thank you Ilan and Vivek.
I think we've got a ways to go, but I'm glad it's rolling along.
And this doge has been the most aggressive effort really to
downsize or right size our government since probably at
least the Reagan Revolution. So just excited to be part of it
and, and have the support of the American people as we move
through and, you know, make them squeal in Washington, DC.
Yeah. Now, thanks to DJT, thank you
Elon, and you keep keep kicking ass.
And when in doubt, send it to the States and we'll take care
of it there. Exactly.
All right, cool. Well, thank you.
Thank you, Senator, Senator Sarah Lee for and and perhaps
one day, Senator Ramaswamy. Well, Governor Ramaswamy.
Yeah, that's kind of the direction we're headed.
And, and everyone who, who tuned in and once again, I'm asking
for, for your support for, for noble goal.
And you know, please help in any way you can.
Like sometimes it's like the small things that that happen on
the side that, you know, does this through a small thankless
tasks that actually will result. Like the doge is going to win.
Doge will win. If, if millions of people
support it in ways that I wouldn't, I wouldn't even know
how they supported it, but but just that you did.
And so, you know, thank you for the Unknown Soldier.
Yeah, definitely. And hey Elon, before we all
break out of here, I do want to acknowledge the, you know, I've
I've founded the Senate Doge Caucus on my side of the
Rotunda. We've got some great Co chairs
over in the House as well with Pete Sessions and and Aaron Bean
and Blakemore. They have got now I think over
100 members of Congress that have joined the Doge caucus and
we've got 18 and climbing in the United States Senate as well.
So you and the president and Vivek have all kind of really
gotten everybody to come together and, and I'm just
really grateful that we have an outlet and are able to do this.
So thank you all so much. That sounds good.
And we'll be doing this this every week.
So I look forward to having members from the House and, and,
and other contributors and, and try to keep the people informed
and, and of the progress and, and I think it'll be very
interesting to follow along. So thanks.
Thanks everyone. Thanks so much, Elon.
Hey, thank you so much for listening today.
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