Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Elon Musk
Podcast. This is a show where we discuss
the critical crossroads, The Shape, SpaceX, Tesla X, The
Boring Company, and Neurolink. And I'm your host, Will Walden.
If you want uninterrupted episodes of the Elon Musk
Podcast, please go to clubelon.supercast.com to find
out how. There's a link in the show
notes. This hearing of the Subcommittee
on Delivering on Government Efficiency will come to order.
Welcome everyone. Without objection, the Chair may
declare a recess at anytime. I recognize myself for the
purpose of making an opening statement.
Good morning. At the DOGE subcommittee, we are
continuing our war on waste. That means rooting out spending
that is unnecessary, wasteful, and frankly, UN American.
Today we are looking at the more than half a billion dollars
federal taxpayers spend annually to fund public radio and
television. A big chunk of this subsidy
flows to National Public Radio and Public Broadcasting Service.
NPR and PBS are the big see based entities that create and
distribute much of the news and educational content heard and
seen on public radio and TV stations across the country.
When Congress adopted the Public Broadcasting Act of 1967, it did
so because it thought at the time that federal dollars were
needed to provide objective news and education content to the
entire nation, including rural residents who lived off the
grid. Fast forward a few decades and a
lot has changed. The invention of the Internet,
for instance, and social media. It's made news and information
widely available to those living in remote areas.
Americans are increasingly consuming digital media and
podcast. The audience of public radio and
television is declining. And I know this because I
represent a rural district where farmers listen to podcast and
Internet based news while they drive their tractors.
At the same time, NPR and PBS have increasingly become radical
left wing echo chambers for a narrow audience of mostly
wealthy white urban liberals and progressives who generally look
down on and judge rural America. PBS News is not just
left-leaning, but it is is actively uses taxpayer funds to
push some of the most radical left positions, like featuring a
drag queen on the show Let's Learn, a show targeted toward
young children ages 3 to 8 years old.
I want you to know I grew up watching children's programming
on PBS, and as a mother who raised three children, I felt
confident that I could leave the room while my own children were
watching children's programming on PBS.
But I can tell you right now, Miss Kerger, specifically as a
mother, if I had walked in my living room or one of my
children's bedrooms and seen this child predator and this
monster targeting my children, I would become unglued.
And that is how most parents feel all over this country.
This is not the only example of them sexualizing and grooming
children. They've been doing it for over
the last decade. In 2015, PBS produced Frontline
put out a documentary, Growing Up Trans, that takes viewers on
an intimate and eye opening journey inside the struggles and
choices facing transgender kids and their families.
This means that PBS is one of the founders of the trans child
abuse industry, all while taking taxpayer money.
Brainwashing and transient children is an issue so hated by
parents across the country that it was a driving force in the
landslide Republican and Trump victory in the 2024 election
cycle and presidential race. The news that these entities
produced is either resented or increasingly tuned out and
turned off by most of the hardworking Americans who are
forced to pay for it. They no longer view NPR and PBS
as trusted news sources. As a matter of fact, with these
people, they're a threat. In fact, when Elon Musk put his
hand over his heart and extended it and told the American people
his heart goes out to them, PBS. PBS News posted the clip, called
it a fascist Nazi salute and described how it was similar to
the same heil used by Nazis and their victory rallies.
Not once did PBS or NPR report on the numerous accounts of
Democrats making the same gesture.
AOC, Kamala Harris? Barack Obama?
Elizabeth Warren? Somebody that lost a
presidential race? Hillary Clinton to Governor Tim
Waltz? Why wasn't this treated exactly
the same way? Is there not a standard in
journalism today? Apparently not.
Here's How We Lost America's Trust was, in fact the title of
a powerful essay written last year by Yuri Berliner, a veteran
NPR editor and his essay. Berliner described how NPR's
downward spiral accelerated greatly during the first Trump
administration. He said NPR dedicated efforts to
damage the Trump presidency via relentless pursuit of Russia.
Gate rumors that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia
over the election. NPR host interviewed Adam
Schiff, then the top Democrat of the House Intelligence
Committee, 25 times about Trump and Russia.
But they made no apologies when the Mueller report found no
evidence that the Trump campaign had colluded with Russia,
because they did not. Berliner also described NPR's
passionate and embrace of the left wing DEI ideology that
Americans clearly reject. As evidenced by the November
elections. NPR's language and style guides
were shaped by race and gender based affinity groups that
dominated the internal culture of the organization.
And NPR journalists were to ask everyone they interviewed their
race, gender and ethnicity and enter it into a centralized
tracking system. This tracking system embeds DEI
into the fibers of its content. Sounds like racism to me.
It's a software attached to NPR's content management system,
where these reporters and producers submit information
about their sources, race and ethnicity, gender identity,
geographic location. That's kind of scary.
And age range. The tool allows NPR to track the
demographics of their sources in real time to allow for source
diversity. The irony of these supposed
diverse sources is that NPR has no interest, real interest in
diversity, like having diverse viewpoints.
Berliner tried to sound the alarm on this when he checked
voter registration records on of the editors at DC's NPR
headquarters and found 87 registered Democrats and 0
registered Republicans. But NPR treated Berliner like a
political dissident in the old Soviet Union.
He was driven out of the organization and forced to
resign. Sounds like communism.
And the ringleader of that effort was NPR's then newly
appointed CEO Catherine Maher, who is before us today.
She dismissed Mr. Berliners wake up call as profoundly
disrespectful, hurtful and demeaning.
In other words, instead of viewing it as a chance to
finally right the ship at NPR, she doubled down.
In doing so, she made it clear how any further internal dissent
would be dealt with on her watch.
That does sound like Communist China at the taxpayers expense
and no one should be surprised. NPR installed her in the top job
after Miss Maher was firmly on record with a litany litany of
public comments and social media posts displaying her ultra
progressive views, her scorn for free speech, and her fondness
for censorship. So now it's up to Congress to
determine if Americans are going to continue to provide her and
the organization that put her in charge willingly after they knew
these things with taxpayer funds, to continue to pursue
their progressive, or rather communist agenda.
For far too long, federal taxpayers have been forced to
fund biased news. This needs to come to an end,
and it needs to come to an end now.
So I am glad Miss Marr and Miss Kerger accepted our invitation
to show up today and be held accountable to the taxpayers.
I look forward to them answering our questions in full public
view and explaining to the American people why they think
they deserve Americans hard earned taxpayer money.
I request unanimous consent that Representative Jim Jordan from
Ohio, Representative ROH Khanna from California, Representative
Emily Randall from Washington be waived on to today's hearing for
the purpose of asking questions without objection.
So ordered. And with that, I yield to
Ranking Member Lynch for his opening statement.
Thank you. Madam Chair, I want to thank the
witnesses for your willingness to come forward and offer your
advice and and testimony to this committee.
Madam Chair, for over 2 decades of service on this Oversight
Committee, I've worked with members on both sides of the
aisle to investigate issues of critical importance to the
safety and security of the American people, including the
conduct of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, terrorist attacks
against the US compound, classified annex and Benghazi,
and several major intelligence and security breaches under
Democratic and Republican administrations.
So I'm sad to see that this once proud committee, the principal
investigative committee in the House of Representatives, has
now stooped to the lowest levels of partisanship and political
theatre to hold a hearing to go after the likes of Elmo and
Cookie Monster and Arthur the Aardvark.
All for the unforgivable sin of teaching the alphabet to low
income families, children and providing accessible local news
and programming. This hearing also comes at the
direction of President Trump and Elon Musk, who have repeatedly
called for the defunding of all public media and claimed that
media organizations such as PBS and NPR are and I quote, a
liberal disinformation machine. close quote.
Meanwhile, the Trump administration administration is
engaged in an actual disinformation campaign to
minimize the catastrophic national security breach that
was revealed earlier this week. As reported by Atlantic editor
in chief Jeffrey Goldberg. Mr. Goldberg was inadvertently
added to a group chat on an unauthorized non secure publicly
available message app in which Secretary of Defense Pete
Hegseth disclosed quote operational details of
forthcoming strikes on Yemen, including information about
targets, weapons systems and other actions the US would be
taking and also attack sequencing.
I want to remind my colleagues in Congress, the federal law
makes it a crime when a person through gross negligence removes
information relating to National Defense from its proper place of
custody or delivered to anyone in violation of this trust ought
to be lost, stolen or abstracted or destroyed.
And what's more, if evidence shows that any of the parties
who are in on that Signal chat chat lied under the oh underoath
in the Senate yesterday, Mr. Ratcliffe or Mr. Ratcliffe or
Miss Gabbard, for instance, then certainly conspiracy to conceal
that breach would be far more worse.
Far worse, where center or criminal attempt is in evidence
and would be more likely to invite culpability and possible
criminal liability, the Secretary of Defense would be
subject to criminal prosecution and it would be the
responsibility of the US Attorney General to prosecute
that. But we're a conflict exists
exists. It might require a special
prosecutor. This security breach severely
compromised the safety of American troops in advance of
imminent US operations and airstrikes against Houthi rebel
positions. It is well documented that the
Houthi arsenal includes anti aircraft capability, ballistic
missiles, cruise missiles, crockets and unmet aerial attack
drones. Mr. Goldberg, who was unwilling
unwittingly elevated to the clearance level afforded to
members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was also joined in the
exposed group chat by Vice President JD Vance, Secretary of
State Marco Rubio and National Security Adviser Mike Walls and
other senior members of the President of President Trump's
national security team. This committee should be
questioning every single one of them as to why they were using
an unapproved unsecured messaging app to conduct
sensitive classified discussions about military operations in
which our sons and daughters in uniform are being sent into
battle. One of the participants was
actually sitting in Russia, sitting in Russia using an
unsecure app, and every member of this committee knows what
that means. We've all been advised about
which apps are secure and insecure and when it is
appropriate to engage in in non critical discussions.
As former chairman of our Subcommittee on National
Security, I recall a time when just the potential for a
security breach that could expose American troops and
intelligence personnel to unnecessary danger would
immediately trigger hearings and bring this committee to a lather
on both sides. But you can bet we won't be
touching this issue because today the controlling House
majority is afraid to do its job.
It is afraid to hold Trump and Trump's administration
accountable. They would rather post up
against Big Bird than deal with that that issue.
In reference to public media, Elon Musk recently asked should
your tax dollars really be paying for an organization run
by people who think the truth is a distraction?
Well, I would say about the same about a cut the current
administration and it's proliferation of disinformation
from claims that Ukraine, Ukraine caused its own, started
its own invasion to heck Secretary Hedges assertion that
no one was texting war plans. You can read the text today
because yesterday in the hearing they said it wasn't classified
information. So you can actually go on the
New York Times website and read the text that was discussed in
advance of our military operations in Yemen.
Madam Chair, if shame was still a thing, this hearing would be
shameful. And I yield back the balance of
my time. I am pleased to introduce our
witnesses today. Paula Kerger is the president
and Chief Executive officer of the Public Broadcasting Service,
also known as PBS. Katherine Maher is the president
and chief executive officer of National Public Radio, also
known as NPR. Mike Gonzalez is the Angeles T
arid donato E pluribus Unum Senior Fellow at the Heritage
Foundation. Ed Ullman is the president and
CEO of Alaska Public Media. Again, I want to thank you all
for being here to testify today. Pursuant to Committee Rule 9 G,
the witnesses will please stand and raise their right hand.
Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony that you're
about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God? Let the record show that the
witnesses answered in the affirmative.
Thank you. You may take a seat.
We appreciate you being here today and look forward to your
testimony. Let me remind the witnesses that
we have read your written statement and it will appear in
full in the hearing record. Please limit your oral statement
to 5 minutes. As a reminder, please press the
button on the microphone in front of you so that it is on
and the members can hear you. When you begin to speak, the
light in front of you will turn green after 4 minutes.
The light will turn yellow when the red light comes on.
Your 5 minutes have expired and we would ask that you please do
your best to wrap up. I now recognize Catherine Maher
for her opening statement. Chairwoman Greene, Ranking
Member Lynch, and distinguished members of the subcommittee.
My name is Catherine Marr and I'm the President and CEO of
National Public Radio, and I welcome the opportunity to
discuss the essential role of public media in delivering
unbiased, nonpartisan, fact based reporting to Americans.
Americans listen to public radio as they commute, as they work
and in the kitchen as they cook with family.
Nearly 100% of Americans live within range of a public radio
station. We cover what matters to local
communities, crop prices, cook offs, and local sports teams
alongside news of the nation and the world.
From the halls of Congress to coverage of our troops overseas.
Today, Americans have more media choices than ever.
The rise of podcasting has established a competitive free
market for audio, news and information, and every day I am
honored to know that we have 43,000,000 listeners from every
state in the nation. Amidst this competition, local
stations choose to become members of NPR for the value we
provide. For example, we are the only non
paywalled news outlet with a dedicated reporter covering
veterans issues, while NPR is only 25% of station programming
on average. Audiences for NPR bring the
scale and revenue that subsidized essential local
programming. Local public media journalism
has never been more important to American families who consider
it part of the fabric of their communities.
It correlates with higher rates of civic engagement, greater
civic cohesion, and economic advantages such as better
municipal bond ratings. Recent independent polling found
that more than 60% of all Americans and more than half of
Republicans trust public broadcasting to deliver fact
based news. I understand the subcommittee
has questions about funding for NPR and public radio.
The vast majority of federal dollars, more than 100 million
of the 121 million annual appropriation for public radio
goes directly to 386 local non commercial stations across the
nation. This highly efficient investment
enables your local stations to raise an average of $7.00 for
every federal dollar. As a grantee of the Corporation
for Public Broadcasting, NPR received federal funding of 11.2
million last year. These funds allow us to maintain
the National Public Radio satellite system, helping
safeguard our national security, civil defense and disaster
response, and enabling public radio to reach every corner of
America. Additionally, these funds help
protect journalists covering our troops overseas and reverse the
decline of local journalism. As a recipient of federal funds,
it is our responsibility to answer legitimate questions
about why public funds should go to NPR, whether we are truly
committed to serving all Americans, and whether the
institution is an effective steward of taxpayer dollars.
I hear, respect, and understand your concerns regarding bias and
whether public media is relevant in a commercial landscape, and
I'd like to spend a minute sharing with you my actions to
address your concerns. First, it is critical for NP Rs
Newsroom to operate with the highest journalistic standards.
That means that they do their jobs independently and as Ceoi
have no editorial role at NPR. In other words, I do not decide
what we cover or how we cover it.
I lead NPR strategy, ensuring we have resources and policies in
place to serve all Americans, not just those with a specific
point of view. I was brought into NPR to revive
and reorient the organization and bring public media to a
wider audience, a new generation and new platforms.
We have a responsibility to serve Americans across the full
political spectrum in a trustworthy, nonpartisan
fashion. It is essential that we deliver
on this commitment, and we have work to do, and we are doing it.
In May, we launched an initiative to improve our
editorial review processes to make sure all pieces are fair
and comprehensive. We hired new editors and
analysts to ensure we're giving fair airtime to different voices
and issues. We started regular meetings with
our nearly 200 local newsrooms so we can plan together for the
needs of their audiences. And the early results are
positive. Our digital platforms, where we
have the best data about our listeners.
The political beliefs of our visitors mirror the makeup of
the country across the ideological spectrum, and we're
seeing growth in readers and listeners.
I joined NPR because I believe that our strong and dynamic
nation deserves great public media for all.
Americans are smart and curious, and they want us to cover issues
that matter, from the price of eggs to national security.
It's our job to deliver truthful facts and information so
citizens can make up their own minds.
I believe Americans voted for a transformative administration,
and it is our responsibility to cover that transformation
fairly, with integrity and tenacity.
I have been CEO for one year and one day.
I have made changes to leadership and planning,
invested in editorial integrity, committed to expanding our
audiences and our relevance for all Americans.
While we have taken significant steps in the right direction,
the journey can't be completed overnight.
Given the support that 75% of Americans have for public media,
I asked Congress to give us the opportunity to continue to serve
the American public. I will invite you to listen with
a fresh ear and to that end, our newsroom invites you to join us
on air and I welcome your questions.
Thank you, Miss Maher. I now recognize Paula Kerger for
her opening statement. Chair Taylor Green, Congressman
Lynch, and members of the subcommittee.
My name is Paula Kerger and I'm the President and CEO of PBS, a
role that I've held for 19 years.
It is my honor to be here on behalf of the 336 PBS stations
who said who serve every community in the United States.
There's nothing more American than PBS.
As a membership organization, our local service is at the
heart of our work. Our job at PBS is to support our
stations so that local stations can serve their communities.
We've been proudly fulfilling our mission for nearly 60 years,
using the public airwaves and other technologies to help
educate, engage and inspire the American people.
That mission is our GuideStar and remains just as important
today as when the Public Broadcasting Act was signed into
law in 1967. PBS stations provide something
that cannot be found on commercial networks.
This is because PBS stations are focused on the needs and
interests of the viewers they serve.
Especially in rural areas. PBS stations are the only outlet
providing coverage of local events, for example, high school
sports, local history and culture content, candidate
debates at every level of the election ballot, and specialized
agricultural news. Local stations also partner with
other community organizations to address issues of concern like
Veterans Affairs and the opioid crisis.
Finally, communities depend on the essential public safety
information and emergency alerts our local stations provide.
Our programming comes from our local stations.
For example, Southern Storytellers was produced by
Arkansas PBS for our national audience.
This program highlighted Southern culture through its
literature, music and film. Across the country, nearly 4
million people watch Southern Tory Storytellers, helping
Americans learn about our shared history and what brings us
together as a people and a nation.
Our stations pool resources to invest in programming that will
benefit all Americans, ranging from history and science to art
and music. For example, Firing Line with
Margaret Hoover creates a forum for people with a wide range of
views to respectfully share ideas, while programs like
Independent Lenses, Matter of Mind, My Alzheimer's explores
the challenges facing many American families, and we
celebrate what makes our country great.
A capital 4th in the National Memorial Day Concert.
Honor our nation's ideals, our service members, and our
veterans. Looking ahead, we will mark our
nation's 250th birthday with the landmark initiative headlined by
a new major series from Ken Burns, The American Revolution.
Our educational programming for children is one of the most
important aspects of our service to the American people.
I strongly believe that the programming we offer to prepare
children for the future is the most essential work that we do
today. More than half of all preschool
aged children are not enrolled in pre kindergarten programs.
Our content has helped 10s of millions of children prepare for
success in school and in life with free programming that is
available everywhere children are on air, online and in the
classroom. Our educational programming is
backed by scores of research studies showing that our
programs like Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood and Super Why help
kids develop essential skills like reading, math and problem
solving. We are proud that nearly 9 out
of 10 families agree that PBS is the most trusted, safe and
educational media brand for children.
Because our programming is free and university available, we are
able to reach more low income families than any other media
company. In fact, our viewers overall
reflect the wide variety of communities we serve.
Our audience mirrors the overall US population with respect to
education, income and geography. Each month, over a 160 million
television and online viewers explore the world through our
trusted content, and more than 3/4 of Americans feel that PBS
stations provide excellent value to their communities.
For over 2 decades, the American public has consistently ranked
public television as one of the best investments the government
makes. More than 70% of the CPB funds
from Congress go directly to our stations, and for every dollar
of that vital seed money, local stations raise 7 to support
their work. This is one of the best, most
successful examples of a public private partnership.
When I think about the need for our service, I think of a man I
met during a visit to a local station in Nebraska.
It was a rancher with young children.
He drove hours to attend a local station event.
He pulled me aside and told me this.
We need PBS. We don't live near a preschool.
My children have learned to read.
Watching PBS shows and the shows we watch on PBS are our
connection to the rest of America.
That is why PBS and the 336 local stations in your
communities do what we do PBS programming and the services
that local stations provide bring Americans together.
It is valued, needed, and trusted by the American people.
I appreciate the opportunity to be here today and I look forward
to your questions. Thank you, Miss Kerger.
I now recognize Mike Gonzalez for his opening statement.
Thank you, Chairwoman Field Chairwoman Taylor Green.
Thank you, Member Lynch, for allowing me to appear before you
today. My name is Mike Gonzalez.
I'm a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation.
The views expressed are my own and should not be construed as
representing any official position of the Heritage
Foundation. Before joining Heritage 16 years
ago, I was a journalist for many years.
I worked in Latin America, Asia and Europe, travelled with the
Mujahideen in Afghanistan, was arrested in Panama, witnessed
China's takeover of Hong Kong and covered the stock market for
the Wall Street Journal. I have even covered high school
sports. I know that journalists can keep
the prejudices in check, that is, if they want to.
This ability to give all sides a hearing becomes an even more
serious obligation when taxpayers are coerced to pay for
you. Yet NPRPBS and the other state
broadcasters refused to abide by the simple code of decency.
For decades, they've asked for more money while telling telling
conservatives to get lost. But the Nation Today is in a
very different place with $36 trillion in debt.
And more importantly, we're seeing not just a shift in our
cultural vibe, but a shift in societal paradigms to the
egregious bias NPR and PBS had violated the public trust.
Public media needs to be defunded, and the CPB needs to
be dissolved. It's a matter of simple
fairness. Multiple arguments can be made.
I will list just a few. We're deeply in debt #2 the
arrangement is unfair to private sector media competitors #3
Public broadcasting was created with the promise that it would
be educational. But now that thousands of
competitors have come online, public media has become, as
George Will says, that the human appendage is digital and
purposeless. The funding is a regressive tax
and obnoxious wealth transfer from working families to the
affluent. But the ultimate factor is the
broadcasters unforgivable political bias.
What we have today is a circular, undemocratic
relationship. Democrats unanimously vote for
more and more money for public media and exchange.
Public media heavily tips the scale in their favour.
It is a nice arrangement for them but it must end.
NP Rs and PB s s full hearted embrace of progressive views and
constant denigration of conservative ones is
quantifiable. I referred, thank you, I
referred you to my written testimony.
Besides my own examples, I cite the research of Tim Graham as
well as NPR veteran Yuri Berliner, who says, quote, an
open minded spirit no longer exists within NPR.
Rather than pause and reflect, NPR instead chose to circle the
wagons and assassinate Berliner's character.
This is part of a pattern. In 2010, NPR fired Juan Williams
and vilified him as a psycho after he dared to flout the
network's progressive orthodoxy. The people running NPR remain,
in Mr. Williams words, an insulated catter of people who
think they're right and who have a hard time with people who are
different. They went completely off the
rails when Donald Trump was elected in 2016, coverage quote
veered towards efforts to topple the Trump presidency.
Berliner said NPR hates his wagon to the false claim that
Russia had colluded with the Trump campaign.
It also refused to cover the Hunter Biden lab story.
After the 2020 riots, NPR firmly sided with those who affirmed,
without a shred of evidence, that America is an oppressive
society gripped by systemic racism.
NPR and PBS even justified looting rather than just then
use journalism as a truth seeking tool.
NPR and PBS distorted journalism to further a political agenda.
Yamiche Alcindor, the liberal activist that the PBS hired to
cover the White House routinely used the platform to make a
substantiated allegations against President Trump.
President Biden she presented as quote, a moral and decent meant
UN quote. Or consider Catherine Maher's
appointment as NPR CEO. A long record of comments leave
zeroed out that she's not only a committed progressive, but
someone whose disdain for free expression disqualifies her from
being anywhere close to the levers of power at a media
institution. And what does she think of
President Trump? He's, quote, a deranged, racist
sociopath. Miss Maher is in America.
She's entitled to her views. The question is whether NPR is
entitled to a pointer as CEO and then ask conservatives to just
pony up. Public media's main argument now
is that it is essential for weather emergencies in hard to
reach places and that without public money, local news will
cease to exist. But over 98% of Americans today
have a mobile phone. Even Alaska, one of our most
isolated states, has high levels of Internet penetration.
As for the claim that the taxpayer is the last available
business model for local news, NPR and PBS are asking us to
believe something laughable that the government can set and fund
a media structure that actually keeps the government in check.
ICE urge you not to try to mend public broadcasting.
Ended. Thank you very much for your
attention and I look forward to your questions.
Thank you, Mr. Gonzalez. I now recognize Ed Ullman for
his opening statement. Madam Chair, Ranking Member and
distinguished members of the subcommittee, it is an honor to
be here today. My name is Edelman.
I'm the president and CEO of Alaska Public Media.
The people of Alaska rely on public media to provide free
universal access to essential services and public safety,
education and community connections.
This includes potentially life saving alerts, updates on
community affairs, coverage of state and local government,
proven educational content, engagement services, and local
and national news. In many parts of Alaska and
communities throughout the country, public Media is often
the only locally operated, locally controlled broadcasting
service. We are more than nice to have.
We are essential, especially in remote and rural places where
commercial broadcasting cannot succeed.
We provide professional, potentially life saving warnings
and alerts that are crucial for Alaskans who face threats
ranging from extreme weather to earthquakes, landslides, and
even volcanoes nationwide. Our public television
interconnection system supports the PBS Warning Alert Response
Network, a critical pathway for the distribution of wireless
energy emergency alerts to cell phones.
Public Television pioneered data casting technology to enable
public safety officials to communicate with each other
without the need for broadband or cell service.
In partnership with the Department of Homeland Security,
Public Television has proven how this technology can assist rural
search and rescue, over water communications, large event
cloud, crowd control, and even school safety incidents.
Alaskans use our services to connect to their communities and
the broader world through access to local public and government
affairs, agricultural news, local history and culture, as
well as local and national educational content and news.
Our programming caters to and is informed by the specific needs
of the communities we serve. Just to give a few examples, in
the Alaska, an award-winning series of documentaries captures
Alaska's people, places, and their unique stories.
Alaska Insight is a weekly public affairs program that
moves the conversation beyond the headlines and right into
Alaska's communities. Our radio station hosts Alaska's
only statewide call in programs, Talk of Alaska and Line One Your
Health Connection. We reach across Alaska with
these essential free services through a statewide network
consisting of four TV channels and 1 radio station.
We coordinate the only statewide news network which includes 27
independent radio stations across Alaska.
And we operate the Alaska Rural Communication System, which
provides free over the air television and radio programming
to 100 rural communities. Alaska Public Media is one of
more than 360 locally controlled and operated public television
stations and over 1000 public radio stations throughout the
country that provide critical services to address the broad
range of interest and views of our local communities.
These stations collectively reach nearly 99% of the American
public regardless of zip code, our income level.
This nationwide service would not be possible without federal
support. Today, over 70% of the federal
funds for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting go directly
to stations just like ours. Our system leverages this
crucial seed money 7 times over and highly efficient public
private partnerships. Reducing or eliminating federal
funding would be devastating and could cause the closure of many
stations, especially the most rural and remote.
Our highest costs come from maintaining broadcast and IT
infrastructure, local programming, and community
engagement, all of which would be in serious jeopardy without
federal funding. Cuts to our national partners,
PBS and NPR would have a similar impact, particularly in small
and rural markets. The broad range of news and
educational programming that we receive from these organizations
is popular with Alaskans. Without this national content,
we would receive less local support, endangering the local
services we provide. This local this national local
model efficiently leverages economies of scale and allows us
to provide the unique mix of local programming and national
content that Alaskans want. Congress's support for the
mission of public broadcasting to provide every American access
to free, non commercial quality educational programming remains
critical. It allows us to connect Alaskans
with each other and with our neighbors in the Lower 48 and to
connect the nation with us. I urge Congress to maintain
federal funding for public broadcasting to ensure that
local stations around the country can continue to provide
essential services to their local areas.
I welcome your questions. Thank you, Mr. Allman.
I now recognize myself for 5 minutes of questions.
Miss Marr, your public statements and social media
posts reflect left wing ideology and blatant opposition to free
speech. After all, you were the head of
Wikipedia for many years, which is a platform that doesn't tell
the truth. Let's walk through some of the
public some of your statements so the public can understand
your personal views. Your fellow Amerit, you said.
Your fellow Americans. Your fellow Americans just
selected Donald Trump as president again this past
November. You called him a deranged racist
and sociopath. You posted on X that America is
addicted to white supremacy. It's appalling.
You've publicly chastised using the phrase boy and girl, which
you said erases the language for non binary people.
There's only two genders. By the way, Miss Marr, the
federal funding that your outlet receives comes from all American
taxpayer dollars, not just from your viewers who support such
statements as these. Let me inform you.
And that so that your that your federal funding is also paid for
by the other half of the country, the 77 million
Americans who voted for President Trump.
Someone you called a deranged racist sociopath.
Mr. Maher, many find you're pro censorship and anti free speech
views more concerning than your politics.
The only speech you the only speech you like seems to be
speech that you agree with. In 2021, you called the 1st
Amendment the number one challenge in American journalism
because it makes it hard to crack down on bad information.
You said in a Ted talk that our reverence for the truth might be
a distraction. You've also expressed support
for D platforming individuals you view as fascist.
Who do you think should be charged with cracking down on
so-called bad information? Is it NPR?
Is it the government? Is it you Miss Marr?
Congressman woman, Madam Chair, thank you so much for the
opportunity to address this. I know youth.
Is it? Is it?
Is it up to you and NPR to crack down on bad information or
decide the truth? Answer the question yes or no
Miss Moore? Absolutely.
Not I'm a very strong believer in free speech, and I believe
that more Spears. Your public statements say
otherwise. Miss Martin, 2021, when speaking
at an Atlantic Council event, you said that when you were CEO
of Wikipedia, you took a very active approach to
disinformation and misinformation.
During the Cova pandemic in the 2020 election, you said you
censored information through conversations with government.
Which governments were those, Miss Maher?
The Biden administration? Yes or no, Madam?
Chair Wikipedia never censored any information.
These are your public statements, Miss Maher.
Miss Maher, are you familiar with Section 399-B of the
Communications Act? It prohibits non commercial
education broadcast stations NC ES from airing commercials on
behalf for of for profit entities.
The FCC recently opened an investigation into the
underwriting announcements and related policies of NPR and PBS.
Does NPR air commercials for for profit entities?
Miss Marr? Yes or no, Madam?
Chair, we are in full compliance and with the FC CS inquiry and
we'll continue to cooperate. I remind you you're underoath
and violations of community of the Communications Act comes
with a fine up to $10,000 and possibly up to a year in prison.
Does PBS air for for profit commercials?
Miss Kroger. We are underwriting
announcements and we believe we are in full compliance with the
FCC and we look forward to delivering the material required
in this part of this investigation.
We. Look forward to that too.
I'm assuming you're concerned, both of you are concerned about
this and that's why you brought so many attorneys with you
today. Miss Kroger using taxpayer
subsidies, PBS funded independent lens to make
documentaries for part of your programming.
In 2016, Real Boy was aired, about a trans teen navigating
adolescent sobriety and the ramification of his gender
identity. In 2022, the same series aired
Our League, in which a trans woman comes to her old school
Ohio bowling league and a story about transition.
Then in 2024, Erases Trees was aired, telling a story of how in
Palm Springs, a black neighborhood fights to remove a
divisive wall of trees. Do you think PBS finds needs to
fund ridiculous material such as this that the taxpayers are
having to to pay for? These are documentary films that
are point of view pieces that are part of our primetime
schedule for adults. And parents and adults don't
trust that type of programming. Thank you, Madam Chair.
I ask a unanimous consent to enter into the record this
letter from 72 public radio stations serving rural
communities across the country, where they emphasize how
important federal funding is to the ability to provide vital
public safety information without.
Objection so ordered OK. I also have a similar letter
from Georgia from the Georgia PBS NPR station also asking for
consideration for federal funding without.
Objection so ordered. Thank you, Miss Kerger and and,
and Miss Maher. Can we talk a little bit about
the educational service you provide for for children of low
income families and and how that that is received and the trust
that you've generated among among families in that
situation? Yes, a significant part of our
broadcast day is devoted to programming for children.
We focus on preschool that is goes back to the legacy of Fred
Rogers who believe that media could be a tool to help to
instruct children as well as a tool of entertainment.
Our programming is focused on core skills that kids need to
develop before they enter school, in math and in learning
numbers and in learning letters, so that kids that don't have the
opportunity to be in a formal pre-K program have a chance to
walk into school for the first time on equal footing with kids
that have more opportunity. And that's the heart of what we
think about in the programming that we developed for kids.
I know you've done some well independent groups have done
assessments on on trust, the trust factor that that parents
have on PBS Kids, which is one of your most popular services.
Can you can you talk about that? Where did you come in in terms
of the, the, you know, the, the comparison to other stations?
Yeah. We're we are the most trusted
media brand. In fact, parents magazine this
week just run the ran the results of a study that was done
on Daniel Tigers neighborhood actually looking at 16 year olds
that remember some of the basic skills they learned as small
children. And what we're focused on is to
make sure, again, that every child has the opportunity to
learn and be excited about about the world around them when they
enter a school for the first time, and to give them those
core base skills that we can see they carry forward in life.
Miss Marr, I'd like you to focus on the work that public media is
doing in relation to public safety communications.
How important is is this function of a public broadcast
media, particularly I'm talking about the most rural, most
remote communities in this country.
Thank you so much, Congressman. We are part of the national Next
Generation Warning System, for which we've received a
significant investment over the course of the last few years and
Many thanks to Congress for supporting that appropriation.
Our stations are busy implementing that across the
nation. We also are part of the national
or sorry, excuse me, the statewide emergency plans for
more than 20 states. You'll see the importance and
value of public radio in particular when we face climate
or, sorry, excuse me, extreme weather, for example, weather in
Ashland, North Carolina. Recently, we Blue Ridge Public
Radio was the only news information source available for
nearly two weeks as people struggled with outages of water
and electricity, and certainly outages of cell phones and
Internet. Recently as well, my colleague
from Alaska would be able to speak to Raven Public Media,
which had a very similar experience of two weeks of
outages in which the local media station was again the only
source of information for that community.
When everything else goes down, public radio is there available
to 1st responders to be able to communicate directly about
issues of harm and ensure the public has access to vital
critical information. Now, I mean, there's a lot of
information out there, a lot of stations out there, but we're
talking what's what's the difference here when you have a
paywall free non subscription access for for some of these
communities. I think it makes all the
difference in the world, Sir. We recently, as I mentioned in
my opening statement, we're one of the only publications in
America that has a dedicated veterans beat and the only one
without a paywall. I'm always struck by something
that our veterans reporter told me, which is that a mother of
one of our troops deployed overseas came to him and said
that for the first time in nine months, she'd heard his son's
voice. That's something that I believe
only public media can do, and it can only do that because it is
available to all Americans without any barriers.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back.
I now recognize Chairman Comer from Kentucky for 5 minutes.
Thank you. Madam Chair, Mr. Ullman, I'm
glad you brought up a point. It's been mentioned a couple of
times already at the early start of this hearing about rural and
remote and, and I have to tell the story.
When I graduated from college with a degree in agriculture, I
went back to rural Monroe County, Kentucky and worked on a
farm, my farm for five years, full time farm to this day, but
full time. I was in a tractor sometimes
10/12/14 hours a day. And I listened to the radio and
the only radio station I could get that had news was, was
public radio. So I listened to as many hours
of public radio as anyone on this panel, I can assure you.
And it was a it was a great service.
That was 30 some years ago. Today in that same remote area,
I mean, you've got SiriusXM, you've got podcasts, there's
Internet access now. There's a whole menu of of media
options now. So, but over time, and I still
occasionally listen to NPR because I just want to hear what
they have to say. And I don't even recognize the
station anymore. It's not news.
It I feel like it's propaganda. I feel like there's
disinformation every time I listen to NPR and, you know, a
media entity like MSNBC or Huffington Post that in my
opinion, consistently spews disinformation.
They can do that. That's they're a private
company, but NPR gets federal funds.
And, and, you know, I have a problem with that because if
people in in Alaska, if all they have is public radio, then all
they know is what these headlines say.
And they're wrong about COVID-19.
And the headlines from the background don't have time to go
over all these headlines that are wrong about Russian
collusion, wrong, wrong about the Hunter Biden laptop, wrong.
And then there's a story about me and part of what we went
through on this committee during the Biden investigation, which
by the way ended with Joe Biden's last act as president,
the United States pardoned his entire family preemptively for
an 11 year period, which just so happened to be the 11 year
period that this committee investigated the Biden's that we
had subpoenaed bank records, I don't think.
NPR reported about the pardons, but they reported a lot about
how the there was number evidence of any wrongdoing and
things that just weren't true. In fact, there's a story NPR
lawmack lawmaker leading Hunter Biden House investigation
accused of owning a shell company.
Well, that's me, Miss Mayor. Do you, are you familiar with
that, that story that NPR wrote about me at the height of the
Biden investigation when, when you all were disputing every
aspect of our investigation that is 100% factual.
We have hundreds of pages of evidence, hundreds of pages of
bank records, hundreds of pages of emails.
Do you remember the story that that NPR wrote about about me
saying I had a shell company? Congressman, I was not at NPR at
the time and I'm unfamiliar with where do.
You get your sources on something like that's a very
serious accusation because we're investigating a president and
his family who had 28 shell companies.
I have an LLC, had five properties in it.
It's in my financial disclosure form.
I've gone into great detail, given lots of interviews, but
but people that listen to NPR, they're totally disinformed on
the truth. And and, you know, I have a
problem with that because you get federal funds.
And I do believe there was a role for public radio 30 years
ago, maybe 20 years ago, maybe five years ago.
But because of technology today, I don't think there's a role for
public radio anymore. And I think you've abused the
privilege that that you had with receiving federal funds.
Explain that because these headlines here are not true.
This is disinformation on on some huge topics.
OK. Do you want to dispute anything
that I said in the in the remaining 30 seconds?
Thank. You, Congressman, first of all,
I want to recognize your concerns.
One of the first things that I did in coming in in May was to
beef up our editorial standards. I directed my editor in chief,
who, by the way, why is? NPR even doing editorials.
I'm so I'm so sorry, do editorials.
I don't mean editorial in terms of opinion.
Editorial you even. Need a pin?
But what does it matter with the P if you're if you're if you're
a readily funded entity that's supposed to provide the news?
Could you not? Provide the news of course of.
Course, Congressman, I mean editorial standards for our
journalism was to beef up our editorial practices, bringing in
more editors to make sure that we have more points of view
reflected in every story. I've engaged in a number of
actions and. My time's expired.
I've lost confidence in public radio.
I don't think, Madam Chair, they should get a pity of federal
funds yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I now recognize Mr. Garcia from California for 5 minutes.
Well, thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
I want to 1st begin by thanking all of our witnesses that are
here today. I know that there's a lot we
should be discussing right now at this hearing.
We've, of course, had some pretty shocking security
breaches that were just starting about through about a lot of our
national security officials. We know that peak headset should
be removed from office or should resign.
We have Donald Trump, who, of course is crashing the stock
market. He's taken away millions,
millions of programs and hurting people across this country to
fund tax giveaways to billionaires.
And our constituents can't access their Social Security
benefits. Now, I think actually Chairwoman
Green supports everything that the Trump administration is
actually doing. So instead of a hearing of a
serious hearing, we're here to attack NPR and PBS.
So let's get right into it. Now, Miss Kerger, the American
people want to know, is Elmo now or has he ever been a member of
the Communist Party of the United States?
A yes or no no. Now, Are you sure, Miss Kerger?
Because he's obviously red. Well, he is a puppet, but no
now. That's not all.
He also has a very dangerous message about sharing and
helping each other. He's indoctrinating our kids
that sharing is caring. Now, maybe he's part of a major
socialist plot and maybe that's why the chairwoman is having
this hearing today. But let's talk about somebody
else. Let's talk about cookie Monster.
Now we know that Health Secretary RFK Junior is coming
out against fast food and baked goods.
Are we silencing pro cookie voters?
Yes or no, Miss Carter? But cookies are a sometime food.
Thank you. Now, I, I, I agree with you.
And let's also talk about the most important maybe character
on Sesame Street. This is actually Big Bird.
Now, Mr. Herger, since Elon Musk actually fired USDA workers who
have been working on the bird flu, does it make sense to also
fire Big Bird? Yes or no?
We would like to keep Big Bird I.
I completely agree with you. And now it gets it gets even
worse. Now, this is actually a, a tweet
that Big Bird actually sent out about the COVID-19 vaccine,
encouraging folks to actually get their vaccination, which of
course we believe in vaccines. Now, perhaps the reason why
we're having this hearing is because our chairwoman, Miss
Green has actually said some really negative things about
getting vaccinations. And that's perhaps is why we are
here. And so we support Big Bird being
pro vaccine and promoting vaccines across this country.
Now, I will admit, though, the extreme liberal agenda that
you're all pushing, I think doesn't stop there.
This, of course, is Bert and Ernie.
Now, these two guys actually live together.
They're friends, They're supportive of each other.
Now, that might be triggering to our chairwoman and and someone
this committee, and perhaps that's also why we're here
today. Miss Kerger, an important
question. Are Bert and Ernie part of an
extreme homosexual agenda? No thank.
You miss Kerger and thank you for being a good sport.
Now, I'm obviously using some humor here, but the fact that
we're sitting here today talking about defunding public
television is actually not funny at a time where we can't agree
on basic facts. And while the Free Press is
under attack, we need public media like PBS and NPR more than
ever. A large majority of Americans
say they trust PBS, and that's exactly why extremists are
trying to tear it down. Public broadcasting is a tool
for education, for emergencies and a cherished part of our
national fabric. We get huge benefits from a tiny
federal investment. The majority and our chairwoman
should drop this attempt to silence media voices they don't
like. So the message I think today is
very, very simple. If we're going to get rid of any
puppeteers, we should get rid of the one that's actually
controlling Donald Trump, fire Elon Musk, and save Elmo.
And with that I yield back. I now recognize Mr. Cloud from
Texas for 5 minutes. Thank you, Chairwoman.
NPR fancies itself as a nonpartisan news outlet.
Public information outlet even says that we should consider all
things. All things are considered.
Yet their history of political bias has shown that there are a
number of things they have not considered.
They asked us not to consider that the Hunter Biden laptop was
real. They dismissed the what was
always the most probable theory of the COVID lab leak from
Wuhan. They interviewed Russia
collusion hoaxster Adam Schiff 25 times, who claimed to have a
vault of information in his office.
Leading to the impeachment of President Trump, which of
course, we now know was all fraudulent.
I'd like to submit for the record an article by Uri
Berlinger. I've been at NPR for 25 years.
Here's how we lost America's trust.
Without objection, so. NPR, unfortunately, has lost
much of the the audience that they used to have, and now they
have very partisan audience because of this.
Who do they bring in to fix it? They bring in Miss Mayhair who
has a history and of common in commentary of promoting Marxist
ideology, including critical theory, said we should not use
the terms boy or girl, Has called our president a deranged,
racist sociopath and said that our reverence for the truth has
become a distraction that is preventing us from finding
consensus and getting important things done.
And one could look at that and think that maybe in your view
promoting group think is more important than finding the
truth. I thought we like diversity of
ideas especially and and that as an online encyclopedia that you
used to manage activism was more important than accuracy.
Now, I had an uncle who used to say that you should never let
the truth get in the way of find of a good story.
And while that was humorous when we were talking about weekend
fishing expeditions, when we're talking about news and
information and encyclopedias and things that are of national
importance, I find that very troubling.
Now, you are here managing NPR, which is in part federally
funded. Can we expect that you will
bring the same lack of reverence for truth to your management of
NPR? Thank you, Congressman.
First of all, I do want to say that NPR acknowledges that we
were mistaken and failing to cover the Hunter Biden laptop
story more aggressively and sooner.
Our current editorial leadership, Luhan, We recognize
that we were reporting at the time, but we acknowledge that
the new CIA evidence is worthy of coverage and have covered it.
What have you done to clean up the bias before you?
You've mentioned I wasn't there for that.
What are you doing to clean up and make sure that we have?
Absolutely. Thank you, Congressman.
As I mentioned, I came in in May Mr. Berliner published his story
2 weeks into my tenure regarding stories that had happened prior.
I wish that I had had the opportunity to speak with Mr.
Berliner. I would have loved to have had
him engage and come back to us with some suggestions as to what
we could do editorially in order to address what he perceived as
bias. Now you've had a long history,
including the the thing that I mentioned about lack of
reverence for truth and how reverence for truth.
You've even talked about the 1st Amendment kind of getting in the
way of what you wanted to get done.
And and then you're wanting us to believe that NPR is now
taking this non biased approach. I mean, where was the come to
Jesus moment for you? I guess that has turned you
around and that we can trust the American taxpayer dollars with
your leadership of NPR I. So appreciate the opportunity to
perhaps clarify some things. My talk about truth was really
referencing the way that people use truth to refer to belief as
opposed to facts. And my encouragement was that we
focus on facts with regards to the 1st Amendment.
That's not what your comments said.
Your comments said that truth was getting the way of getting
things done and that you were prioritizing what you wanted to
get done over truth. My.
And that's really unfortunate. I want to go to a different
context because you're allowed to have your political opinion.
Any news organization should be going after the truth.
That's what we want and expect out of news organizations.
But certainly a media platform can can have whatever opinion it
wants in a free society. The question for us today as a
committee is whether or not the taxpayers should be forced to
pay for this kind of thing. Mr. Gonzalez, I wanted to to, to
get your take on this about why the corporate public
broadcasting, is it still relevant today?
I mean, we're in a different context than we were in the 60s
where maybe not every home had a television.
Now many of them have multiple televisions and certainly we
most have a screen in their pocket.
Most times during the day. I'm I have 3 here on my desk.
And so it seems like we're in a different context of where could
we possibly get the news today or information.
Could you speak to the importance or lack thereof, of
the corporation of public broadcasting in the context of
of where we are today in society?
Yeah, right. When it came on after the
passage of the 67th Public Broadcasting Act in the early
70s, there were only three networks.
We had Crock Kite, Recenter and the other guy and and PBS added
by a third the number of networks that we had.
That's not the case today. And as far as education, which
has been diminished. And by the way, I believe that
Sesame Street was sold to HBO 10 years ago.
But but as, as far as the number, the educational value,
we have an unending stream of educational content online.
I could, I could reel off a number of websites and that
people can access YouTube channels where kids of all
income levels can access educational content.
So it's, but basically, as I said in my testimony, it goes
back to the basic unfairness that conservatives for 50 years
have been saying, but you're completely biased.
And they have the audacity to say, oh, no, we're not.
And, and, and you have to just pay us.
And it's it's, it's just that's that is the basic.
The the gentleman's time has expired.
Thank you. Mr. Gonzalez, I ask you, I ask
unanimous consent to enter into the record a an article
published today by Yuri Berliner about NPR basically saying that
the bias has not changed. Madam Chair, I also have a
unanimous, unanimous consent request from the Members who are
at Mr. Grijalva's funeral Mass this morning asking to submit
into the record this letter of support for federal funding from
West Without. Objection.
Which is Kentucky radio, which is where Mr. Comer wrote his
without. Objection.
So ordered director. Thank you.
I now recognize the gentleman Mr. Kassar from Texas for 5
minutes. Good morning.
Mr. Gonzalez, you wrote the proposal to defund NPRPBS and
public broadcasting for Project 2025.
Can you answer a few questions for me?
How many millions of dollars a month do taxpayers spend for
Daniel Tiger to play golf? I have no idea who the answer is
done. To your knowledge, has Miss
Piggy ever been caught trying to funnel billions of dollars in
government contracts to herself and to her companies?
That's a silly question. Well, the answer is no.
How about Arthur the aardvark? Has he ever fired independent
government watchdogs who are investigating his companies?
The answer is no, Madam Chair, I'm told we're here to talk
about government efficiency, but Daniel Tiger has not blown $10
million of taxpayer money to play golf with his friends.
But Donald Trump has, just at the beginning of his
administration. Miss Piggy hasn't been caught
funneling billions of dollars in government contracts to herself,
but Elon Musk has. And Arthur has not fired
independent government watchdogs investigating him and his
companies. But Elon Musk has fired at least
five. So once again, my Republican
colleagues are dragging in a scapegoat, this time PBS and
NPR, to try to distract from the fact that Trump and Musk are
robbing working people. It's Sesame Street that's making
things expensive. It's Mr. Rogers that's blowing
taxpayer money. It's listeners like you.
It's absurd. The total funding for public
broadcasting is just one sixth the amount that Elon Musk's
companies make off of the government every single year.
But you will not see Elon Musk being grilled by this committee.
I've seen a lot. But pointing the finger at Elmo
to cover for Elon Musk might be a new low for Miss Marjorie
Taylor Green's committee. I don't think Americans are
buying it. Here's what I think we should be
having a hearing about. After Trump and Musk took over
the government, reporters noticed that the State
Department was trying to funnel 400 million taxpayer dollars to
Tesla. The State Department said it's
an old contract. No news here.
But because of a brave whistleblower and an NPR
reporter, they exposed the corruption and the lies.
Madam Chairwoman, if we want to look into waste, fraud and
abuse, why not look into that? Elon Musk, who's running Cabinet
meetings, who's running the White House, was trying to
funnel money to himself. So let's stop investigating
Cookie Monster and start investigating how the Trump
administration lied about this and was trying to funnel money
to their biggest political supporter.
Maybe you're trying to defund NPR because they expose this
kind of corruption. And if Republicans were serious
about investigating waste, fraud and abuse, my colleagues would
admit that Big Bird is not the problem.
Big Tech is Big Pharma is Big insurance companies are.
Elon Musk's companies make billions, $3 billion a year off
of government contracts. That's six times the money that
goes to all of public broadcasting.
Private insurers and Medicare Advantage overcharged taxpayers
$83 billion just last year. That could pay for public
broadcasting 160 times over. The four and a half trillion
dollar tax cut for the ultra wealthy that Republicans on this
committee are trying to push through.
That would pay for public broadcasting 9000 times over.
There is money to pay not just for PBS and NPR, but health care
for every American, tuition free trade school and Community
College for every American to end homelessness on the streets
of our cities. But my Republican colleagues
don't want to talk about the corporate waste, fraud and abuse
because those corporations fund the Republicans campaigns.
So instead they want to shut down educational programming for
kids and their families, and they want to shut down local
radio stations. To borrow a phrase from Sesame
Street, the letter of the day is C, and it stands for corruption.
Look, in my home city of Austin, TX, we have Austin City Limits,
which decade after decade after decade has chronicled American
Music. And if they had a bad season and
it was private TV, they just would have shut it down and we
wouldn't have had decade after decade after decade of Austin
city limits. That's the amazing thing about
public broadcasting. I have a lot of public housing
residents in the San Antonio side of my district, and when I
talk to them and they hear about what's going on in Washington,
DC, they talk about Texas Public Radio.
And I just heard my colleagues talking about educational
programming for kids on YouTube. That stuff is loaded with ads
and also on other forms of private television.
They're selling you and your kids stuff, making people feel
bad. They're trying to make a profit
off of you. That's, you know, that's why I
got sat in front of Mr. Rogers, because you got to learn
something and they weren't just trying to sell you junk.
It's better for our kids. It's better for our families,
and we should actually be supporting public broadcasting
instead of this stuff. Madam Chair, leave Elmo alone.
Bring Elon in for questioning instead.
I now recognize Mr. Timmons from South Carolina for 5 minutes.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank the witnesses for being
here today. I'm going to begin by saying
this. We don't want to shut down NPR,
PBS, but we have $36 trillion in debt and we have run a $1.8
trillion annual deficit. And we are scouring all
government spending, not just Democrat priorities, but
Republican priorities too. We're going to be going through
the defense budget. We're going to be making sure
that we are spending our taxpayer dollars wisely because
we have an existential threat. We have an existential threat.
We cannot continue down this path financially.
So we do not want to shut you down, but we cannot continue
down this path. And so if our debt is part of
the reason we're here, I think another part of the reason we're
here re evaluating your role and the government's use of taxpayer
dollars to partially fund your institutions is because
technology has changed everything.
We are not living in 1967 and the Internet has has changed our
society. We have such increased social
interconnectedness and there are various options for people to
get news and to get disinformation or information,
whatever you want to get. So those are the two kind of
reasons I want to start with. And that's probably half the
problem we're here for. The other half is your perceived
bias and your content moderation and the manner in which you are
violating journalistic integrity.
And I'll say this, NPR, you have been far worse at this.
Miss Kroger. You have done a much better job
at this. But we still have some issues
we're going to talk about. Miss Mark, do you think that the
public statements you've made on social media create a challenge
in your leadership for what should be an unbiased public
information system? Do you think that your past
comments, I'll give you better question, did they come up in
your job interview? Like do you see a problem?
Congressman, thank you for the question.
No, I they never came up in my job interview.
If you're a. Rabid progressive, like, and do
you not think it's a problem that your political leanings
make it seem to the American people that, that you're not
biased and you're not doing your job because you agree that your
job is to have journalistic integrity, right?
Absolutely. But there is a strong firewall
between The Newsroom and anything that I Let's talk about
the. Newsroom, you have 87 registered
Democrats, not a single Republican in your in your
editor boards. I mean, how does that work to
give us the perception that you're doing your job of
actually delivering unbiased information?
I. Would agree with you that that
number is a concern if it is accurate.
I do believe that we need to have journalists who represent
the full breadth of the American Society so that we can report
well for all Americans well. I think that you are failing.
I realize you've only been there for a year, but I just really
think that while it is a small portion of your budget, you very
much should expect to restructure your revenue streams
because I don't think that NPR's necessarily worth saving.
And I'm going to go on to Miss Kerger.
I will say this. You have been very professional
and you have been there for decades, and I think that you've
done a fairly good job over your tenure.
But I want to ask you a very simple question.
In retrospect, do you think that it was inappropriate to put the
the drag queen on the kids show? Do you think that was a mistake?
The drag queen was actually not on any of our kids shows.
The image that that Chairman Taylor Green showed was from a
project that our New York City station did with the New York
City Department of Education. It did not air.
It was a it was a digital project they did for the
Department of Education. It only appeared on our website
for you to do. With.
PBS Do you think that that human?
I mean it. Was not a PBS.
It was not for PBS. It was mistakenly put it on our
website by our I'm sorry, I don't mean to talk over you.
It was mistakenly put on our website by our New York City
station. It was not intended for national
distribution. It was immediately pulled down.
It was never broadcast. Do you think that you should
publish something that calls trees racist?
Is that in retrospect? Should you have published that?
I'm not sure what you're referring to you.
Had a segment that call it was called racist trees and it was
AI mean. We've already referenced a
number of times. So I mean, do you think trees
can be racist? I guess that's a good.
One, I don't know what you're talking about.
I've never heard of what you're referring to.
All right, well, but I'd be happy to look into it.
I guess last, do you think that it's appropriate to expose
children to issues of trans transitioning?
Do you see a problem with that? Is that something you should
avoid that? Is not anything on any of our
children's programs at all. Miss Kerger, you have done a far
better job here today, and we're going to continue to have this
conversation. But again, we have $36 trillion
in debt, and we're trying to figure out how to make sure that
our kids and our grandkids have an opportunity at the American
dream because if we don't change course financially, they won't.
Thank you. I yield back.
Thank you. I now recognize the gentlewoman
from Texas, Miss Crockett for 5 minutes.
Thank you SO. Much It should not be surprising
that the president is doing everything possible to make it
more difficult for the media to hold him accountable and for the
public to be informed about his reckless and illegal behavior.
Yet here we are. The Republicans have actually
organized this goofy hearing to try to convince the American
people that PBS and NPR are, quote, domestic terrorist or
domestic threats. My.
Apologies not the incompetent, unqualified Secretary of Defense
who's texting war plant, who's texting war plans to journalist,
but it's it's y'all PBS and NPR the American people are supposed
to be worried about. You can't make this up.
It's. As stupid as it sounds, the
American people should be worried about the president
threatening to investigate NBC for treason for reporting on his
felony convictions or arresting reporters and stripping networks
of their licenses for not saying nice things about him or not
using Gulf of America. The Republicans witness, Mr.
Gonzalez went so far as to suggest that because NPR and PBS
reported on the murder of George Floyd, they, quote, represent a
danger to our physical health as well as to civic health of of
our body politics. Miss Mayor, do you think
reporting on the murder of George Floyd and highlighting
instances of systemic racism is a domestic threat to America?
Thank you, Congresswoman. I believe it's our
responsibility to report on all issues of interest to the
American public. Thank.
You so much miss. Karger, what about you?
I agree. I think it's important for us to
report on the on the important news of the day.
So. Let's talk about the critical
role of public media. During his first term, President
Trump's own Department of Homeland Security highlighted
the importance of public broadcasting's role in public
safety. In 2018, his administration
stated, quote, PBS and local public television stations play
a crucial role in protecting communities by delivering
essential information to individuals and 1st responders.
These benefits are all made possible by public broadcasting
stations unique reach, reliability and role across
America, and are especially vital in rural and underserved
areas. Madam.
Chairwoman, I would ask unanimous consent.
I seek unanimous consent to enter into into the record the
28th without objection. So ordered.
And, Madam Chair, I also seek unanimous consent to enter into
the record the 2019 report titled Modernizing the Nation's
Public Alert and Warning System from Trump's without objection.
So ordered. In the report, FEMA encouraged,
quote, the use of public broadcast capabilities to expand
alert, warning, and communication capabilities to
fill gaps in rural and underserved areas.
Mr. Olman, what's the more significant domestic threat,
reporting the murder of George Floyd or dismantling most of
America's emergency communication systems?
Can you please repeat the question for me, Congresswoman?
Which one is more of a threat, reporting the murder of George
Floyd or dismantling most of America's emergency
communication systems? Dismantling the emergency
systems and. Isn't it true that in Alas,
Borough Alaska is the only. I'm sorry and isn't it true that
KB RW AM in Borough Alaska is the only broadcast service
available in an area of more than 90,000 square miles that.
Is correct. It's also the North Slope where
the majority of all the oil production that comes from
Alaska is takes place. Thank.
You so much and isn't it true that without these stations
broadcast Americans in rural communities would lack access to
life saving information and public safety alerts that.
Is correct so. In your opinion, would
eliminating funding for stations in rural America like WN GH
Channel 18 in the chairwoman's district hurt Americans?
It would hurt Americans, Yes, in.
Fact, Georgia Public Broadcasting serves as the
official distributor of evacuation route information
during state ordered evacuations and the chairwoman is here
advocating to strip their funding.
Look, the DOGE agenda isn't about government efficiency.
It's about breeding corruption at the expense of the safety of
the American people, particularly Americans living in
rural or remote parts of the country.
They don't care about public safety, they don't care about
Emergency Management, and they don't care about free speech,
all of which are harming American people.
In fact, I'm a skip off real quick because they have tried to
come for you, Miss Mayor. And I just want to clarify, you
did not work for NPR when those statements were made, did you?
That is correct and. To be clear.
Free speech is not about whatever it is that y'all want
somebody to say, and the idea that you want to shut down
everybody that is not Fox News is bullshit.
We need to stop playing because that's what y'all are doing in
here. You don't want to hear the
opinions and any of anybody else.
And the Constitution says Congress shall make no law
respecting or establishing. Of religion, or prohibiting the
free exercise thereof, or abridging the.
Gentlewoman's time has expired. The gentlewoman's time has
expired. Madam Chair, one, can I put them
into the record? Unanimous consent, please.
Without objection, so ordered. Thank you.
I'd like to put under this NPR article Would Biden preemptive
pardons for family members could mean for presidential powers if
I could submit to the right? Without objection, so ordered.
I now recognize the gentleman from Ohio, Jim Jordan, for 5
minutes. Thank.
You, Madam Chair, Miss Maher, who is Uri Berliner?
Mr. Berliner is a former senior editor.
That's all. A former senior business editor
for NPR How long do. You work at NPR I.
Believe he was there just over 25 years, 25.
Years award-winning journalist. Did you win any awards?
I our time to Peabody. Award.
That's pretty important. Isn't it?
That is a pretty. Distinguished journalist, right?
Certainly. And I wrote, he wrote a long
story about what you do at NPR. Is NPR biased?
Congressman, I have never seen any instance of never of
political bias determining editorial decisions, no.
Well, Miss Burt, Mr. Berliner, in his story a couple last year,
wrote. I've in the DC area editorial
positions at NPR, He said he found 87 registered Democrats, 0
Republicans. Is that accurate?
We do not track the numbers or the voter registration, but I
find that was award. Winning journalist who worked 25
years at NPR. Mr. Berliner, Was he lying when
he wrote that? I.
Am not presuming such I just don't have we don't track that
information about our journalists 80.
Seven to zero and you're not biased.
I think that is concerning if those numbers are accurate.
Concerned. I mean, it wasn't 4443, wasn't
6027, it wasn't 7017, it wasn't even eighty to seven.
It was 87 Democrats, 0 Republicans and you say NPR is
not biased. How about the big stories over
the last few years, according to Mr. Berliner?
Again, he wrote on in the Trump Russia story he wrote at NPR.
We hit star wagon to Trump's most visible antagonist,
Representative Adam Schiff. They said they interviewed him
25 times. That accurate?
I was not there at the time, but those numbers sound accurate.
Those sound accurate. But then he said when the
Mueller report came out and they said Mueller said, Robert
Mueller said he found no evidence of collusion.
He said Russiagate faded from our programming.
Is that accurate? Again, I was not there at the
time. I'm not.
I couldn't say. You couldn't say I.
Was not at NPR at the time. Didn't.
Prepare for that. You knew we were going to ask
you about this guy, didn't you? It's come up like 6000 times
already in the hearing I. Just didn't say whether it faded
from our coverage. How about?
This story, October 2020, New York Post had the Hunter Biden
laptop story and one of those editors, I guess one of those 87
Democrat editors said this. We don't want to waste our time
on stories that are not really stories.
We don't want to waste the listeners and readers times on
stories that are just pure distractions without a pure
distraction story. Our current editorial leadership
believes that that was a mistake, As do I, Yeah.
The whole country knows that was a mistake.
Definitely impacted the election or I think it's certainly
impacted the election. How about the COVID origin
origin story? That's pretty big story too,
right? Mr. Berliner said.
We became fervent members of the team Natural Origin, even
declaring that the lab leak was debunked by scientists.
Turns out, though, the lab leak is what most people think
actually caused the COVID virus. Sorry, sorry.
Is there a question there there? Is you guys were oh for three
on, on the three, the three of the biggest stories in the last
five years. You guys were oh for three.
And yet you maintain that NPR is not biased.
Congressman, I do not believe we are politically biased.
No, we are a nonpartisan organization.
Nonpartisan organization. What's happening to your
listeners over the last five years?
Went up, down or stayed the same.
It has gone up and down and is now going back up.
Well, I, I thought five years ago was at 60 million and you
said in your opening statement I think 43,000,000 that's.
Correct. So 43,000,000 now and it was at
60 million five years ago. I can do some math that looks
like it went down and. Is now going back up.
Is now. Going back up, yes it is.
How much is it went back up? It's from up A.
Couple of millions over the past oh so.
You went from 60 million to 41 million, now you're back up to
43 million. In a year's time, I'm very proud
of that growth, Sir. OK.
You're proud of that, that growth, OK, But over five years
it's went down 18,000,000 that. Is correct Sir, OK.
Should taxpayers subsidized NPR? I believe that taxpayers
subsidized local stations, Sir, that is the vast majority of
what I thought. You said you got 11,000,000 from
Corporation and Public Broadcasting which is taxpayer
fund and directly to you, right that.
Is to support the public and then local stations.
Get it from the Corporation of Public Broadcasting yet, right?
They get Tax 100. Million that goes to the Local
100. Million goes local stations and
then there's local stations buy back programming content from
you, so that money goes to local stations, comes back to you,
gets routed through the local stations.
All taxpayer money those. Fees are actually based on
private donations rather than on federal funding.
Well, we all know. Money's fungible, so some of it
gets put in there. Certainly we could.
We could agree that money is fungible.
What? More money for less listeners.
You fired the guy who pointed all this out, who said that you
were so biased to the left that you lost listeners, which is
actually happening, and you're here maintaining that.
Oh, you need, you need to continue to get taxpayer money.
I did. Not fire, Mr. Berliner, Sir.
OK, the guy that that left after all that understand, understand.
Are you fundraising off today's hearing?
Sir, I I believe that there was a message that went out earlier
today letting people know we were coming in.
Yes, yeah. And at the bottom of the
message, it said, donate now, right?
I don't recall the exact language, I'll show it.
To you right there it is donate now I mean I'm not against
fundraising. We all do it.
I mean, I get it, but it's, I assume this, this, this
fundraising is probably going to all the left listeners who were
subsidized content by the taxpayers.
And that's the. Gentleman's time is expired.
I yield back. I now recognize Miss Randall
from Washington for 5 minutes. Thank you so much.
You know, I I'm new to Congress. This is my first term, and I
came from a legislative body that didn't have quite as heated
debates in our committees, and we're generally fairly welcoming
to our folks joining us to testify.
So I want to say thank you to all of you for taking the time
out of your schedule to come and share your experience with all
of us and with the American people.
I'm grateful for your time and for the work that you do in
service of your communities and neighbors.
You know, American families used to get all the same news, right?
Folks would have access to a handful of news channels.
They would watch the same nightly news programs.
They would go from 1:00 to the other to the other, and we could
all agree on what was happening in our country.
We all used to operate from the same baseline of information,
but today it is no secret that we are operating in a much more
diversified and fractured media environment.
The content space, the use of AI generated content.
Americans now have to be able to discern for themselves whether
something they are hearing is true or not.
But investing in public media is a bedrock to our healthy,
critically informed and engaged public and our democracy.
And I know that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle have
argued over whether every piece of programming is in service of
the public. But I also want to point out
that, you know, in my fairly rural district, we have a lot of
areas that aren't served by broadband.
You know, a lot of folks who cannot easily access numerous
podcasts while they are out working on their property.
They, you know, have to maybe wait for something to download
when they're at home using maybe even a wired Internet
connection. Right there.
I lose. I'm in a dead zone for about an
hour and a half as I'm driving from one city to another in my
community. But public radio is broadly
accessible and it's important for, you know, folks counting on
the weather report for kids who are, you know, in pre
kindergarten, who are watching Elmo and learning to count and
do math. It's important for the young
people who, you know, we're home during COVID and we're able to
continue learning with the help of public broadcasting.
I think we have a lot of problems in this country, a lot
of problems that we should be tackling for regular Americans
who are struggling to afford to live, to afford housing, to
afford healthcare, to be able to.
Live. The lives that they dream of for
themselves and their children. I think we've got some national
security concerns that have been talked about a lot in this
committee, but I think talking about defunding public
broadcasting and public media is an egregious misuse of our time
here. Mr. Allman, when we talk about
cutting funds for the Corporation for Public
Broadcasting, we're talking about those local small stations
that rely on that money. 70% of Corporation for Public
Broadcasting funding goes directly to public radio.
I know you've worked in Tacoma in the past and kind of attest
to how some how rural some parts of Western Washington are.
It's not all Tacoma. What role do public media
stations like NPR and PBS play in supporting local stations?
What kind of programming do they provide the?
Local communities are at the heart of the work we do, as I
shared in my opening remarks. We talk about the people and the
places there. You bring up a memory of mine.
Chehalis, Aberdeen, Hokie mayor, Hoku area.
KBTC was the only public television station there.
You know about the struggles that that community was having
over a decade ago. Job loss, all kinds of terrible
economic situations. We provided educational services
there with a half, $1,000,000 local grant that we partnered
with the community on. It was incredible work.
We do the same thing in Alaska with military families,
homeschoolers, elementary schools.
Those are the pieces we provide. And then local news stories that
people can use about where they live and what they do.
That's what we do. That would be lost for a minute.
Thank. You so much, Madam Chair, yield
back. Thank you.
I now recognize the gentleman from Tennessee, Mr. Burchett,
for 5 minutes. Thank.
You chair Lady Miss Carter, is it true that HBO bought the
rights to Sesame Street? No, it did not.
It and developed Sesame Street, entered an arrangement with HBO
for a number of years and it was now.
The arrangement correct. Yes, which allowed us to get the
series for free during the period of that time.
How? Much money was transacted
during. I don't know.
Sesame Street is a private organization.
It is separate from ours. OK, Miss Meyer, what about Lee
Greenwood's God Bless the USA is propaganda?
I'm sorry, Sir, could you repeat the question?
What? About Lee Greenwood's God Bless
the USA is propaganda. I don't believe that is
propaganda, Sir. OK.
Well, in January, North County Public Radio, and that's a
subsidiary of NPR, had Daphne Brooks, who apparently is a
black feminism scholar, on its show where she it was hosted by
the host Brittany Lose. And it says, have you ever
watched something on TV and thought, OK, now this is
propaganda? Have you ever had that moment?
To which Daphne Brooks replied, Whenever I see Lee Greenwood
singing Proud to be an American. I believe that represents the
individual we interviewed on air and not the position did.
You say there's no bias on NPR. That is not a.
That is not a that. Is not a biased statement,
ma'am. That is not even it.
Both parties wrapped themselves around this song.
Every time there's a national conflict, Lee Greenwood sings it
and he does a beautiful job. But you say there there is no
bias in NPR that. Is that individuals opinion?
And she, of course is entitled to it.
But that is not the position of NPR, ma'am.
You said in your opening statement that that you were
going to be transformative, and I believe you've failed to do
that. Let me ask you why did you call
President Trump a fascist and a deranged racist sociopath in
2020? Congressman, I appreciate the
opportunity to address this. I regret those tweets.
I would not tweet them again today.
I they represented a time where I was reflecting on something
that I believe that the president had said rather than
who he is. I don't presume that anyone is a
racist Which. You don't believe anyone is a
racist? I don't.
Start by presuming anyone as a racist, Sir.
OK, as NPR, PBS ever conducted an internal review to assess
whether conservative or right leaning perspectives are fairly
representative news and programming.
Congressman, what we look at is the distribution of people who
listen to our work. And we can tell you, and I'm
proud to tell you that for our digital, our podcasts and our
website, the distribution of Americans who come to NPR does
reflect the political distribution of the nation.
In fact, the distribution on our websites, 33% of folks who come
are conservative versus 28% who are liberal, and the rest
identify as independent. So the largest group is
conservatives who come to NPR's websites.
So you. Believe that most Americans
think President Trump is a fascist and arranged race racist
sociopath. I don't believe that at all,
Sir. OK, ma'am, we.
Obviously are constantly looking at the voices that we bring
forward. We take to heart our commitment
to bringing forward perspectives from across the country.
Our programming comes from our local stations and I mentioned
in my opening comment the series that we did out of Arkansas
Southern Storytellers. That's just one little example.
10% of our schedule is news. The rest of it is either
children's programming or programming based on history to
give us all a collective expression.
And we're constantly looking to making sure that we're bringing
forward a diversity of viewpoints and perspectives and
experiences that really do make up the fabric of this country.
OK, NPR senior editor Leonard, it's been mentioned before, but
he said he was quoted to saying an open minded spirit no longer
exists with within NPR. And now predictably, we don't
have an audience that reflects America.
Yet you stated that that the audience does reflect America.
He was suspended without pay for five days for saying this.
And of course, he eventually resigned in April 2024.
You've also stated that federal funding is essential for NPR to
operate, but also claim only 1% of your funding comes from the
federal government, which is. Mr. Berliner was suspended for
the outside work policy, not for what he said Sir, in terms of
federal funding, The federal funds go to support our
operation of the public radio satellite system, which enables
all of our local stations to be able to communicate information
and broadcast, including stated. Earlier, ma'am, funding is very
fungible. It flows wherever it needs to.
I don't buy that argument. We.
Do I wonder? If any of the members the
committee would comment real quickly, would you agree that
Real America's Voice, Newsmax, Fox or News Nation?
If they were to see federal funds, would you all support
that? Yes or no, Mr. Allman?
Yes or no? I'd have to get back to you on
that, ma'am. Yeah.
I actually don't have an opinion about that.
Ma'am, I I don't have an opinion about that, Sir.
That would be Congress's decision.
Thank. You chair lady.
Thank you. I now recognize.
I now yield to the gentleman from California, Mr. Khanna, for
5 minutes. Thank you.
Madam Chair, and thank you for allowing me to wave on to the
committee. Mr. Gonzalez, I read with
interest your testimony. It was so angry, so I thought
I'd try to lighten things up a little bit.
Who are three of your favorite characters on Daniel Tiger or
what episodes do you are your favorites representing Connor?
Thank you very much for the opportunity to lighten up.
I again, I think I'm taking The Time Machine here.
Sesame Street went to Daniel Tiger.
Do you have some favorite characters?
Oh, the owl. Any.
No. None.
What? What does Ugga Mugga mean to
you? Nothing.
You don't. You've never heard the
expression Ugga mugga. Yeah, I don't think so.
No, it's it's affection. Have you have you ever watched a
Daniel Tiger show or know any families who watch a Daniel
Tiger show? I don't think so.
No. You've never watched one.
I've never seen Daniel Tiger. Sorry.
I thought. Do you Do you know what?
What? Daniel Tiger is a successor to.
And I don't know Daniel Tiger, so I don't know what he's no the
show what it's a successor to do you know?
No, you really don't know. I really.
No. I'm on the road from all of
history. It's a successor to Mr. Rogers.
Oh, there you go. OK.
Yeah. Mr. Rogers, I know.
OK. Do you are you familiar with his
1969 testimony? I am, he said.
I want to quote because it's one of my favorites.
I studied this actually going to school as some of the most
effective testimony in Congress, he said.
I give an expression of care every day to each child to help
him realize that he is unique. I end the program by saying
you've made this day a special day by just be your being you.
There's no person in the whole world like you and I like you
just the way you are. Senator Pastor was a hard headed
fiscal conservative, said he got goosebumps by that testimony and
it's what convinced him to fund the public broadcast.
You've said you wouldn't have funded it.
Do you think Senator Pastor made a mistake back then?
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think I agree with Fred
Friendly who testified and said you would have voted against.
I would have voted yes. I don't think that you should
have state broadcasters. Now, what is the cost of public
broadcasting as a percent of the federal budget?
I don't know, but it is a come on, You're talking about the $36
trillion of debt, debt that we have.
You're saying this is a really important thing that we need to
cut you. You didn't what percent?
It's important in principle and it is.
It was principle is a different thing.
You're saying this is a effective strategy to cut debt
and you have no idea what it was. 5% of the discretionary
cuts in the GOP, It's .01%, right?
But it was 5% of the discretionary cuts in the 17
budget, .01% federal budget. That's one of the reasons
Senator Pastor said you know it's worth it in an investment
in American kids. Now you said Sesame Street is a
private organization. Reception is going private.
I didn't understand that because Sesame Workshop is a non profit.
What did you mean by private? Well, I mean it's a it's a
nonprofit. It's it's it's separate from,
but it gets public funding. What it did you were you talking
about the HBO thing? Yes.
Do you realize that HBO just cancelled with them?
And I I do yes. The reason they cancel them, and
I'm trying to explain why Senator Pastor funded this, and
if you talk to families who watch Daniel Tiger, maybe
appreciate it. The reason they cancelled it is
because it wasn't making a profit, say, because when you
try to do Daniel Tiger or Sesame Street and you try to do what
Mr. Rogers was talking about, helping the emotional and social
development of kids, it's not easy.
You got to hire people who are child psychologists.
You have to hire people who are educationalist.
A lot goes into this and HBO said, you know what, it's not
making money. We rather put on things that are
geared towards adults or that are going to be conflicts.
We aren't making money on this. And the whole reason, the whole
reason, Senator Pastor said that we're going to fund this.
I know you're kind of mocked in your testimony, the kids.
But the whole reason was that when you make programming for
children to help their social and emotional development, it
costs so much money to do, and it's a public good, then not
everything has to be about profit.
Do you have any idea what it takes to produce Daniel Tiger,
who all they hired? Did you ever try to figure it
out? No.
But I can tell you that the market said that it wasn't and
there wasn't enough demand for it.
And that's the reason why HBO got rid of it, right?
Because it wasn't enough demand. Yeah.
So are you. That's exactly the right point.
Are you saying that everything in American Society needs to be
driven by the profit motive? There is not enough demand on
getting ratings for things that help the social and economic
development of kids. But you know what?
Mr. Rogers understood what we've forgotten in this country.
Some things are more valuable than money.
At a time where a country is polarized, I wish we had a
little more empathy and caring. And that's not a partisan issue.
That's an American issue. And I would recommend you re
watch that testimony from Mr. Rogers.
I hope the whole country would watch it.
I have watched it and we are 30, six, $6 trillion in debt.
I now recognize the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Burleson, for
5 minutes. Thank.
You, Madam Chair, you know, I think that it's important to
bring this conversation into the context that needs to be said,
that which is that we are $36 trillion in debt as a nation.
We're spending 20% of every dollar that comes in from
taxpayers just to cover the interest.
And guess what? American people, bad news,
interest rates are going up. So that 20% is going to get
worse and worse. We had Ray Dalio come in and
tell Congress that we are entering potentially dark
territory. There's a number of red flags.
We're we're at the worst level of debt.
We're at a worst level of debt than we were after we left the
World War Two, OK? We're at that level of debt.
And we didn't just fight a war. We were facing potential wars
and conflicts. We're at that level of debt.
And we didn't just emerge from the recession or depression.
If that happens today, you'll see the dollar no longer be the
world reserve currency and and we will be in serious trouble.
And so that's that is the context that we're in.
Look, if there was all the money in the world, it's fine to throw
money around, but we don't have all the money in the world.
And the question that we have at hand today is, is it appropriate
to spend taxpayer dollars on things that may not be necessary
anymore? And so my question, Mr.
Gonzalez, at one point in time there was state sponsored speech
directly. It was the form of town criers,
correct? So government used to fund
people to go out in the street and deliver the news of the day
vocally at St. Corners, correct?
OK, why don't we do that today? Well, I think it's because we'd
have better ways of delivering the news.
I mean, I think you get my point.
Like today, they at one point in time there was very limited
access to news and there was a there was an appropriate time
where potentially we need to have state sponsored news.
But is that, is that the way? Do we need that today?
No, we do not. And may I quote Thomas Jefferson
on this very point, since you bring this up.
He said to compel a man to furnish contributions of money
for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and aborts
is simple and tyrannical. This is what I base my
opposition to public funding for media.
Yeah. And I that's why I think that
what in given this context, like let's be real, we're it was said
that we're attacking free speech.
This is paid. This is state sponsored speech.
And the very reason why we have have, you know, these witnesses
before us today isn't because they're totally being funded or
completely being funded. We're not bringing in Disney
Channel in here, right? We're not bringing in the
National Geographic right for their content.
The reason why we're having this conversation is because you're,
you're, we are funding you. And, and because we're funding
you, the taxpayers get to have an opportunity to ask why are we
funding some of these content that they might disagree with?
Yeah, No, I'm completely, that's completely right.
In fact, I think that PBS and NPR, but especially PBS will
thrive on the membership model. They, they they keep saying it's
such a small percentage. What?
Well, if it's the the public funding, if it's such a small
percentage, then no problem. Yeah.
So Mr. I'm going to ask a very difficult question.
But if you're in my shoes and you have to face the fact, can
we fund Social Security or do we do we spend money on NPR?
Which would you choose? Congressman, I would argue that
in which if. You had to pick if you were
forced to make a decision, there wasn't enough money to go around
Social Security or NPR. We know how
fund PBS or to fund veterans healthcare if given limited
resources, which is where we're at.
I I recognize the limited resources and I feel that both
are important for this country. And I think what the American
people want to know is when they're sending money, their
taxpayer dollars, and they're funding things like Independent
Lens. And look, I like some of the
content on on your stations, I love Nova.
But you know what? Nova competes with National
Geographic in nature. Why are we funding something
that competes with these private sector entries?
I like Sesame Street, but I also know that it's competing
directly with Handy Manny, Doc Mcstuffins, and Little
Einstein's, right? Those exist and we're not
funding them. They're not here having to
defend their content, but because we are funding it, I'm
going to ask you, why are we funding an episode?
Episodes of Real Lens Independent Lens about an
episode called Real Boy, A trans teen navigates adolescent
sobriety and physical emotional ramifications that's what the
American people want to know Social Security our.
Witness We're but our witnesses can answer the questions.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That was a documentary that was
produced for for adults as part of our prime time audience and
it was part of a point of view that we share to try to help
people understand the wide breadth of experiences of people
across the country. Thank.
You, Madam Chair. I now recognize the gentlewoman
from the District of Columbia, Miss Norton, for 5 minutes.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to thank the
witnesses for being here today. I am a strong supporter of
public public broadcasting and I am a regular listener and
watcher of the public broadcasting stations here in
DC. Public broadcasting is a public
good. WETA's, DC's local PBS station,
is proudly home to the world's longest running high school quiz
quiz show. For over 60 years, the show it's
academic has showcased some of the best and brightest high
school students in the Capital Region, President Reagan once
praised. It's.
Academic as quote a reminder of the importance of education.
End Quote and even Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas made a
guest appearance. 1 area student who competed on the show said
Quote it's. Made me a lot.
Smarter End Quote and quote getting to say.
That I've been on ATV show is really.
Cool. End Quote.
It's. It's academic is just one
example of local public media programming.
That. Celebrates and lifts up the
community, Mr. Allman. In your experience as head of
the Alaska Public Media? Why?
Is it important for public media to elevate local voices?
Thank you so much for that question.
There are stories to be told all over this great nation of ours.
And one of the things that I take the utmost pride in is
being someone who can provide the strategy and build the
resources and build the capacity to ensure that we can capture
video about those uniquely Alaskan stories.
We can capture audio about those uniquely Alaskan stories.
And what we do is we take that opportunity to not only tell
those stories for ourselves within our great state, but we
also work with our national partners.
This local national partnership is essential.
Without PBS, without NPR, you wouldn't hear stories, news
stories, public affairs stories, community stories from Alaska.
You wouldn't see them on the PBS News Hour.
This is vital. It's vital for Alaskans to know
that they're connected to their nation and that what we do in
Alaska matters to our nation. Thank you again for that
question, Miss Krieger. Miss Kerger, I would love to
hear your bigger FUTURE picture. Take her on this.
If PBS stations are suddenly taken off the air, what would be
lost to communities across the country?
I've spent a good part of my time as the president of PBS
traveling and visiting our stations across the country
because I feel for me to do my job well, I need to understand
what the role of our stations are in communities.
That means spending time not just with station management,
but also with people in the community.
So I've been to all 50 States and the reason that we are here
and the reason that we are arguing so passionately for
funding, recognizing there are very difficult challenges in our
in our country right now, is that many of our smaller and
actually medium sized stations would not exist without the
federal appropriation. And when you look at a station
like Cookeville, TN, which serves part of Appalachia, 50%
of their budget comes from the federal government.
Those are stations that I've seen that have small Staffs that
do extraordinary work, and those are the stations that I worry
would not survive. This would be an existential
moment for them, and that's why I think this is so important.
The. The The DC area NPR station
similarly provides acclaimed programming including
up-to-the-minute news and local shows, exploring the DC cultural
scene and sharing stories from all over the city, including
historically marginalized areas. The Nation of the station also
produces award-winning journalism, such as an
investigative feature on local families coping with sickle cell
disease. Throughout the country, more and
more local news outlets are closing each day at a rate of
more than two per week. This has made public radio
reporting all the more important.
Miss Maher, Why? Is it beneficial for journalists
to live in the communities they cover?
We'll let the witness quickly answer and then we're out of
time. Thank you so much, Madam Chair.
We find that enabling public radio to continue to be funded
allows for us to meet the needs of people who live in news
deserts, and having journalists who are from that community
means they can prioritize the needs of that community.
Whether it's sickle cell issues in DC or whether it's the price
of sorghum in our agricultural heartland, Whether it is
thinking about the wildfires that we see across the mid,
across the center and West of our country, or whether it is
the impact of storms across the Gulf and southern parts of our
country. We recognize local journalists.
They speak the language. They recognize the
pronunciations of the places that they come from.
They come from the community. It is true tremendous value to
enable that we are for America from Americans, and all American
voices are heard. The gentlelady's time has
expired. I now recognize the gentleman
from Texas, Mr. Fallon, for 5 minutes.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Miss Mark, do you believe the
National that National Public Radio takes a balanced and fair
approach to news, politics, culture, etcetera?
Mr. Fallon, thank you for the question.
I came into the National Public Radio and.
I apologize. It's just that we have such a
limited time, of course, that to be true.
I believe that we have work to do, we always do, in order to
improve and serve all Americans more.
Accurate than not that you're fair or you're you're either
fair or you're unfair. So what do you think you are?
I believe. We wake up every day with a
desire to be fair and it is part of why claiming.
That you're fair. You have a desire to be fair.
OK, So you would not describe NPR as objective and
nonpartisan. I.
Would you would? OK.
Miss Karger, same question for you.
Would you believe the PBS is fair and objective and
nonpartisan? Yes.
OK. Thank you.
Thank you for the quick answer too.
So I I find it interesting that the CB PS recent goal was to
promote efforts that ensure fact based journalism that promotes a
Symphony of ideological viewpoints.
You both agree with that goal. Yes.
All right, wonderful. So, Miss Kurger, in 2023, when
PBS had a program Washington Week with The Atlantic, and when
President Biden's mental acuity was questioned, one of the
reporters claimed the GOP was lying.
Another reporter, Jeffrey Goldberg, who's been in the news
of late, described Biden as, quote, mentally acute.
Were you aware if there were any dissenting opinions on that
program that day? I don't know from that day, no.
There were, there were not. But fortunately in there was a
debate and I believe June of 2024, where the American people
in the world found out just who was lying, the Democrats,
Jeffrey Goldberg and PBS Miss Moore.
I'm sure you're aware that Hunter Biden had a laptop.
I am, Sir, yes, OK. And there were many stories
written about said laptop. Yes, Sir.
And in 2020, unfortunately, NPR's managing editor for news
refused to cover the story and he branded it a, quote, Waste of
time, not a real story and a distraction.
And instead, unfortunately of NPR investigating, they ran a
puff piece that led with experts say attack on Hunter Biden
addiction deepened stigma for millions.
It's unfortunate that NPR ignored the Hunter Biden laptop
story, but y'all did talk quite a bit about the debunked Russia
collusion. Do you know how many times NPR
interviewed Adam Schiff about? Congressman, I would love to say
that we actually believe we made a mistake on the Hunter Biden
laptop story and I. Appreciate that.
Thank you. How many times did y'all
interview Adam Schiff about the Russia collusion?
I'm sorry, sorry, I don't have that number.
It was 20. Five times.
You know how many times NPR interviewed Chairman of this
committee Oversight Committee Jamie Comer about the Biden
impeachment inquiry, the Hunter Biden tax evasion, and illicit
business dealings of the Biden family?
I'm sorry, Sir, I don't know. I believe.
That's zero. So it's 25 to 0.
Miss Kerger, you're aware there's a political spectrum
goes all the way from the far right to the far left and
everywhere in between. Would it trouble you to hear
that for six months there was an analysis done on PBS News Hour
from June to November of 2023 where they found that far right
was that term was used 162 times and far left was only used six
times. Do you find that troubling?
I, I don't know the study that you're referring to and I'd
love, I'd be very interested in seeing it and understanding how
they came up with those numbers media.
Research Center did a six month analysis and it's not how do you
find it? You say far right, it's terms.
They use the term far right 162 times, far left six times.
That's a 96 to 4% skew. You're also aware that you
covered the GOP and Democratic National Conventions in 2024,
yes? We did OK.
Interestingly, 72% of the coverage of the GOP convention
was -88% of the Democratic convention was positive.
Shouldn't be surprising when you have anchors like Amna Noat, who
described the Republican rhetoric as quote outright
racism and quote echoing white supremacy.
Miss Mayor, NPR Do you believe your reporters are fair?
You said they're fair and. They're working at it I.
Believe that they work today everyday.
Sir, they're non. Biased and yet you have the
voter registration issue. I mean, we're all human beings.
We're all going to see through the world through a certain
lens. And do you are you aware of any
Republicans, any registered Republicans in your newsroom?
I. Couldn't say registered, but I
know we have conservatives in our newsroom.
Yes, OK. So the red the recent
registration when it was looked at, 87, 87 Democrats and 0
Republicans register I. Found that very concerning.
Yeah, I would. Not even 40 to 30 or 50 to 2087
to 0. But it shouldn't be surprising
when their own CEO says things like I'm so done with late stage
capitalism, or calls the president of the United States a
deranged racist sociopath, or that America's addicted to white
supremacy. So billions have gone into both
of your coffers over the last several decades.
And I understand why Democrats on this committee are going to
viciously and vehemently to defend you all because you
become a propaganda wing of the Democratic Party. 67% of your
viewers and listeners identify as Democrat with only 12%
conservative. And you become a sandbox for
leftist propagandist to frolic on Taxpayer diamond no more.
And when you said in the beginning you're going to
promote a Symphony of ideological viewpoints, yeah,
you do. If you're left-leaning left, far
left, the. Gentleman, remarkably.
Marxist, I yield back. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Felon. I now recognize a gentleman from
Texas, Mr. Gill. Thank you, Chairwoman Green, and
I apologize. I'm getting over a cold, so I'm
losing my voice here. Miss, Miss Maher, I want to
start from with you. Just generally, would you say
you generally agree or disagree with the following statement?
The history of all hitherto existing society is the history
of class struggles. I would not say I agree with
that, you know? That, that's good to hear.
It's, it's interesting because a lot of your thinking, as
expressed by your public statements, is deeply infused
with economic and cultural Marxism.
Do you believe that America is addicted to white supremacy?
I believe that I tweeted that and I, as I've said earlier, I
believe much of my thinking has evolved over the last half
decade it. Has evolved.
Why did you tweet that? I don't recall the exact context
Sir, so I wouldn't be able to say.
OK. Do you believe that America
believes in black plunder and white democracy?
I. Don't believe that, Sir.
You. You tweeted.
That in. Reference to a book you were
reading at at the time. Apparently, The Case for
Reparations I. Don't think I've ever read that
book, Sir you. Tweeted about it.
You said. You took a day off to fully read
the case for reparations. You put that on Twitter in
January of 2020. I apologize.
I don't recall that I did OK. No, I'd no doubt that your your
tweet there is correct, but I don't recall that.
OK. Do you believe that white people
and inherently feel superior to other races?
I do. Not you.
Don't you? You tweeted something to that
effect. You said I I grew up feeling
superior. Ha.
How wide of me? Why did you tweet that?
I think I was probably reflecting on what it was to be
to grow up in an environment where I had lots of advantages
it. Sounds like you're saying that
white people feel superior. I don't believe that anybody
feels that way, Sir. I was just reflecting on my own
experiences. You.
Think the white people should pay reparations?
I. Have never said that, Sir.
Yes, you did. You said it in January of 2020.
You tweeted Yes, the North. Yes, all of us, Yes, America,
Yes, our original collective sin and unpaid debt.
Yes. Reparations.
Yes. On this day, I don't.
Believe that was a reference to fiscal reparations, Sir.
What? Kind of reparations.
Was it a reference to I? Think it was just a reference to
the idea that we all owe much to the people who came before us
that. That's a bizarre way to frame
what you tweeted. OK, how, how, how many, how much
reparations have you personally paid?
Sir, I I don't believe that I've ever paid reparations, OK?
It's just for everybody else. I'm.
Not asking anyone seems. To be what you're suggesting, do
you believe that looting is morally wrong I.
Believe that looting is illegal, and I refer to it as
counterproductive. I think it should be prosecuted.
You believe? It's morally wrong though of.
Course of. Course.
Then why did you refer to it as counterproductive?
The very different, very different way to describe it.
It is both morally wrong and counterproductive, as well as
being tweeted. It's hard to be mad about
protests in reference to the BLM rotet protests, not prioritizing
the private property of a system of oppression.
You didn't condemn the looting, You said that it was
counterproductive. NPR also promoted a book called
In Defense of Looting. Do you think that that's an
appropriate use of taxpayer dollars?
I'm unfamiliar with that book, Sir, and I don't believe that
was at my time you tweeted. That you read that book but.
I don't believe that I did read that book, Sir, do you?
Think that a few few years ago NPR educated America about quote
the whole community of gender queer dinosaur enthusiasts.
Do you think that that's a an appropriate use of tax dollars
I. Was not at NPR at the time.
That's. Not the question though, do you
think that that's an appropriate use of our tax dollars?
I. Think our tax dollars that we
use are to be able to provide a wide range of I'll take.
I'll take that as a yes, you do believe that that's appropriate.
Your health advisor at NPR also stated in an interview that,
quote, fear of fatness is more harmful than actual fat.
Would you like to explain how fear of fatness is more harmful
than actual fat? That's directly.
That's an editorial at NPR I. Am not familiar with the
editorial and I don't believe that was published during my
time here. It's.
Called Diet culture is everywhere.
Here's how to fight it. Do you think that that's an
appropriate use of taxpayer dollars?
I. Think any reporting on health
isn't appropriate? You expect dollars?
Yes, and. You and you think that
editorializing that fat is not unhealthy is appropriate.
I don't know that what that article is Sir, and I'm not
familiar with it. I couldn't say fake.
News Do you think that basic accommodations like doorways or
seatbelts represent, quote, latent fat phobia?
I don't have an opinion. It's.
Also from NPR Do you think civility is racist?
No. Sir.
No, your outlet ran an article entitled Quote when civility is
used as a cudgel against people of color.
That was on All Things Considered.
Would you like to explain I? Well, I'm not on the editorial
side, sorry. I'm not familiar with that
story. You talk.
About how NPR is news. This is This is
editorialization, and I'll read it.
For many people of color in the United States, civility isn't so
much social lubricant as it is a vehicle for containing them,
preventing social mobility and preserving the status quo.
This is garbage. I'll spend all of my time doing
everything I can to ensure you guys never get another dollar of
taxpayer funding. This is complete garbage.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Gill.
I now recognize the gentleman from Georgia, Mister Jack, for 5
minutes. Well, thank you very much, Madam
Chair. I'd like to just start and build
off of something Mr. Fallon noted.
And Mr. Miss Mayor, you I think you noted.
And just to confirm within your statement to him that NPR failed
to accurate, accurately report the circumstances around and
content within Hunter Biden's laptop story.
Is that fair to categorize your statement?
Our current editorial leadership believes that we've made a
mistake not reporting the story and more reporting it earlier.
Yes, and. I recognize you weren't there at
the time, but what institute's and control what?
What have you done to ensure that never happens again?
A number of things, Sir, and thank you for the opportunity to
speak to them. We have hired additional editor
core core, which we refer to as our editorial review to make
sure that all stories before they go out are comprehensive
and well reviewed. We've instituted a monthly
review to ensure that the most challenging stories of every
month we go back and we look at what we may have missed in order
to not miss issues again and change policies, processes and
policies to be able to have more robust conversation and to
ensure all areas and all views are considered.
We have hired analysts to be able to count the number of
stories that we're running on any particular issue, including
whose voices are represented. We've moved from bringing
pundits on air to try and bring direct policymakers on air so
that we can ask questions of policymakers rather than hearing
through other people's perspectives.
Those are just a few of the things we've done so far.
I've got a couple others if you have time.
Thank. You and you can submit those for
the record. Would you suggest then that the
the failure to accurately, accurately report those
circumstances and the the content around that story, would
you suggest today, as I feel many others feel that that
impacted the 2020 election I. Could not say, Sir, I don't
know. Well, I just, I asked because
you have a broad viewership, broad listenership.
And I'm just curious if it is so broad and it is so necessary for
us to continue to give taxpayer funds as you all submit to me to
miss accurately report something that's incredibly important
around a 2020 election is very concerning.
So welcome. Another thought from you there.
I believe that we made a mistake, as I said, and I
believe that we have taken that to heart and are focused on how
do we report and report effectively in Timeless in a
timely fashion on all the issues that matter to all Americans.
I I hear your concern, Sir, and I know I want you to know that
we are truly working on this. I I'd.
Like to spend the rest of my time talking about funding, and
I know that some of my colleagues talked about it a
little bit today, but could you walk us through the amount of
money that NPR received from CPB annually?
Yes. Sure, Sir.
We receive $11.2 million this past year, the majority of which
goes to the public radio satellite system, which we
operate on behalf of the entire public radio network of.
We also received a smaller amount of funding in the course
of the past year that went to help us hire those additional
editors and analysts in order to be able to beef up that
editorial review. We received funding to support
the coverage of the recent election in order to make sure
that we are had our journalists all across the country and we're
able to speak to Americans of all different political
backgrounds. And what?
Percentage of your budget share comes from the federal
government. Depending on how you counted,
Sir, it is, but it's less than 5%.
And to help me understand too, the CPB, you know, as I
understand it, we've Congress has appropriated $500 million to
CPB. It flows out and I think smaller
radio stations go and apply for grants for it.
Do you receive payment and from smaller radio stations through
licensing agreements and things of that nature?
We. Do in the fees for that are are
designed around the amount of funding that they get from
private member donations. So it's not the fees are not
designed around federal funding. They're designed around what
sort of direct private support and donations they receive from
members and listeners. Well, I noted Mr. Jordan today
suggested that you are fundraising off this hearing
today and, and a question that I have then, if if you receive
less than 5% and over and over today you've said that private
funding helps support the mission and and the the work of
NPR. Could NPR survive without the 5%
that we give NPR annually? My belief is that the funding is
essential to the public radio system, and that is the 246
member stations with the 1300 stations across the nation so
that we're able as a network to serve all Americans with 100%
coverage. If federal funding for our
network goes away, it means that people in rural parts of
America, places where they can't afford to make private donations
to support their local journalism, those will be
harmed. But sorry if I'm the bigger harm
as well or the additional harm is that Americans in places that
are affluent or do have many media choices will not be able
to hear from their fellow Americans that are often under
heard bottom. Line If the 5% went away, would
NPR still exist? Well, it would be incredibly
damaging to the federal, to the, excuse me, to the National
Public Radio system. I yield back, just want to
submit to the record. Turn your microphone on, Madam.
Chair, I'd just like to submit to the record this you.
Ask unanimous consent, I ask. Unanimous consent to submit to
the record this flash drive containing 6 feet worth of
documents documenting NPR and PBS as political bias without.
Objection so ordered. Thank.
You. In closing, I want to thank our
witnesses once again for their testimony today.
I now yield to the Ranking Member, Lynch for his closing
remarks. Thank you, Madam Chair, thank
you for having the sharing. I want to thank the witnesses
for your willingness to testify. In closing, I want to follow up
on Mr. Connors point. I'd point out to my colleagues
that there are there are some government functions that are
not merely transactions. There are there are some
undertakings that we as a country engage in what which are
not necessarily justified by cash on the barrel at the point
of purchase. Everything is not a transaction.
It's not like selling a car, although that's exactly what the
president was doing on the lawn of the White House the other
day. Sometimes a government program
is a long term investment. I think that applies to to
public broadcasting, like when you use public television to
teach kids their numbers and and their alphabet, because in some
households that might be the only source of instruction
available. More often it could be an
exercise in trust because a lot of our parents out there, 88% of
parents said they trusted PBS kids or, or when you have a, a
documentary given by a historian like Ken Burns and, and he, he
does research and drills down on the letters and first hand
correspondence of Civil War veterans and families North and
South and, and gives us the hard facts of the Civil War.
Hopefully we are teaching or at least reminding people of the
wrongfulness of slavery and the consequences of us from a system
of bondage and the horrific price that was paid and perhaps
is still being paid. Everything is not a transaction.
But but I do believe that some people see it that way.
I think President Trump and Elon Musk see things see life often
as a series of transactions. Much of the support we provide
to seniors is not a profitable transaction because they're
they're older and vulnerable, but they have paid for their
fair share into Social Security. That's why FDR designed it that
way. Some people just wanted the
government to promise to pay a pension.
But but FDR knew that if he had Americans pay into that system,
that their sense of fairness would cause them to defend that
tension. And and so they would fight like
hell to get what they had coming it it sounds like we might have
to test that theory if Elon Musk and Howard Luck and a cab their
way. Another another thing we do that
is not necessarily profitable in a financial sense is that we
care for our veterans. It's a promise we made to our
sons and daughters in uniform. And it's the right thing to do.
And veterans care and veteran benefits are special because
those benefits are owed to every veteran who lies in a hospital
bed in every VA hospital across the country, because those
benefits are for courageous service previously and honorably
rendered to our country. And so now it's the time for
America and Congress to fulfill their obligation as promised.
That's not a transaction. But because of that cost, the
Trump administration VA has announced 80,000 layoffs at the
VA. Trump and Vance also see support
for Ukraine as a transaction, even though they've been invaded
by Russia and are fighting for their lives and their freedom.
As we saw a couple of weeks ago for Mr. Trump, for President
Trump and Mr. Vance, it was a power transaction.
And as the president insisted, Szalinski had no cards to play.
And as Vance pointed out, he refused to sufficiently bend the
knee and he didn't dress up. These examples point out the
nature of the presidency. Throughout our history, the
president has never been viewed as the Hochster in chief.
Instead, our most successful presidents have occupied a
position of what could be seen as moral leadership, which might
cause some to conclude that America is bankrupt right now.
But I have hope in the genius of our Constitution that the checks
and balances of our government framework must might once again
compensate for that shortcoming in the White House.
It could be that Congress might provide that balance, or it it
may be the judicial branch that steps into the breach.
Or it might require the ultimate source of power in our system,
the people themselves, to demand that we fulfill our obligations
to all those most vulnerable in our country, wounded veterans,
seniors, children, and the poor to whom so much is owed.
Madam Chair, I appreciate the the the opportunity here to
address this issue. I would have preferred that we
were talking about the security breach that occurred recently,
but perhaps that will be for another day.
But I thank you for your courtesy and I yield back.
I. Now recognize myself for closing
remarks. The United States is $36
trillion in debt. In fiscal year 2024, the
government spent over 1.8 trillion more than it took in.
And in fiscal year 2025, the interest in our debt is expected
to exceed $1 trillion as we continue investigating waste,
fraud and abuse. And we can look no further than
the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
The LGBTQ indoctrination of our children, the systematic racism
narrative, and the support for censorship being pushed by the
heads of NPR and PBS are just several of the many abuses of
taxpayer dollars. And if you are one of the select
few who might support such content, you can personally
support and fund it with your own money through private
donations. Because the reality is, the
United States of America is broke and can't afford it.
And after all, PBS and NPR are already fundraising off of this
committee hearing. The American people are closely
following along today in this long-awaited hearing to hear the
case for why Americans hard earned tax dollars should
continue for public broadcasting.
I think from what we have heard here today, the American people
will not continue to allow such propaganda to be funded through
the federal government with their hard earned tax dollars.
The Corporation for Public Broadcasting that we give over
half a billion dollars to no longer serves the public.
It serves a narrow audience of wealthy liberal elites who are
out of touch with everyday Americans.
Not only have the times changed and the American people who once
needed these outlets can now access the news anywhere at any
time, but the content that is being put out through the state
sponsored outlets is so radical it is brainwashing the American
people and more significantly American children with
unamerican, anti family, pro crime fake news.
The American people do not support their taxpayer dollars
going to NPR articles like How is sex Determined?
Scientists Say it's Complicated, which discusses how biological
sex is not limited to male or female.
Or another article about how stories on crime are rife with
misinformation and racism. Or about how birds and trees are
racist. Over a 7 month period, the Media
Research Center discovered the PBS News Hour gave over 90% of
the airtime to the left on gender ideology stories. 90%.
As mentioned earlier, PBS was the outlet that featured the
child predator drag queen on the education show for kids ages 3
to 8 years old. And to clarify the record
because our witness Miss Kerger lied Underoath and said it
wasn't featured on PBS. This show was aired on PBS on
April 1st, 2021 and we will take a look at this video.
Right now we're using ATV today because our audio system is
having problems. Let's go ahead and watch this
video. Blah blah blah.
Blah, blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah all through the
town. So get your singing voice.
The hips go swish, swish, swish. The shoulders go shimmy, shimmy,
shimmy. That's repulsive.
That's not what children ages 3 to 8 should ever be watching.
A grown biological man posing as a woman.
And by the way, Miss Kerger, that was aired on April 1st,
2021. And then something happened.
It wasn't an accident and it wasn't just for a brief time
that it was up. It was aired April first and
then somehow it expired May 24th.
Later, later on, it was taken down.
Wonder. I wonder why?
Wonder why that was taken down? Another egregious example
includes back in 2010 PBS is Travis Smiley stated that
Christians blow up people every single day.
Haven't seen that ever happen in my life.
And today, if you look on NPR's website, there is still 0
mention of any negative coverage of any Democrat today.
And trust us, there are more than plenty of examples to pull
from. How about a member from this
committee making fun of the governor of Texas for having a
disability and living his life in a wheelchair?
Miss Mar From headlines to podcast to documentaries to
children's programming, NPR and PBS have all but abandoned their
promise to deliver unbiased, nonpartisan and fact based
reporting. The American people have woken
up to this nonsense and blatant disregard for truth, and truth
matters, and they will not put up with it any longer.
Contrary to the beliefs of the head of NPR, Miss Maher, truth
is not subjective. It's actually very important.
And there are not multiple truths.
There's just one. For a civilization to exist,
objective truth must exist. It must be embraced, It must be
protected. It is not a distraction.
And despite many attempts to whitewash it, truth will
prevail. The Corporation for Public
Broadcasting is using taxpayer dollars to actively suppress the
truth, suppress diverse viewpoints, and produce some of
the most outlandish, ludicrous content.
After listening to what we've heard today, we will be calling
for the complete and total defund and dismantling of the
Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
Here's how it works in America. Every single day.
Every single day, private businesses operate on their own
without government funding. We believe that you all can hate
us on your own dime. With that and without objection,
and all members have 5 legislative days within which to
submit materials and additional written questions for witnesses,
which will be forwarded to the witnesses if there is no further
business. Without objection.
The Subcommittee. Hey, thank you so much for
listening today. I really do appreciate your
support. If you could take a second and
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And please take care of yourselves and each other.
And I'll see you tomorrow.