1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,600 Hey there, it's Melissa Brunetti and welcome to the Mind Your Own 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:17,130 Karma podcast. Hey there, karma crew. 3 00:00:17,130 --> 00:00:20,450 Thanks for joining me for this episode of Mind Your Own Karma, 4 00:00:20,450 --> 00:00:22,770 The Adoption Chronicles. Today. 5 00:00:22,770 --> 00:00:25,650 I have Veronique Kinter on the show today. 6 00:00:25,650 --> 00:00:30,650 She is an adoptive parent, and if you are an adoptee listening, 7 00:00:30,650 --> 00:00:34,170 before you reach for the pause button on your computer or 8 00:00:34,170 --> 00:00:38,160 listening device, I would like you just to hold on for a 9 00:00:38,160 --> 00:00:40,920 minute. And I would like to plant just 10 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:45,880 maybe a couple of seeds in your head to entice you to listen to 11 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:51,080 this episode. You know, in adoptee circles, we 12 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:57,320 know there needs to be reform in the adoption agency arena. 13 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,480 There's so many things that we feel is wrong with it, and some 14 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,960 of us feel like adoption shouldn't even be legal, that it 15 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,240 should be abolished. But in my eyes, I don't see that 16 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:12,560 happening anytime soon. So what can we do to make the 17 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,720 changes that we want to see in the adoption world? 18 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,360 And how can we do that? How can we make those changes? 19 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,960 And for me, I feel like education is really the key to 20 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:31,320 where change can begin and how can we make that change if we 21 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:36,160 don't know what changes need to be made and how do we find out 22 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:41,240 what changes need to be made. I have found that listening to 23 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,840 not only adoptee stories but birth parent and adoptive parent 24 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:51,720 stories have educated me so much in what I personally feel like a 25 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:56,480 needs to change. You know, we've all been told 26 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,880 some kind of story. Adoptees have been told we're 27 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,440 lucky and we've been chosen. And you know, had that pounded 28 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,360 into our heads and then birth parents have been told you're 29 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:11,760 doing the right thing for your child and adoptive parents, 30 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,160 you're gaining a family and you're helping a child in need 31 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,440 gain a family as well. And so it's a win win scenario. 32 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:26,800 But are we being told the truth? And how do we know what the 33 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:32,000 truth is if we don't listen to adoptive parent, birth parent 34 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:36,040 and adoptee stories? So that is why I've opened up 35 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,680 this podcast to an adoptive parent. 36 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:45,240 I bombarded Veronique with 1000 questions and you know, I'm 37 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,120 looking at it as an adoptee. She's looking at it as an 38 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,080 adoptive parent and I hope that we both learn from each other. 39 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:56,880 I know I learned from Veronique, so let me tell you a little bit 40 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:02,000 more about Veronique. Veronique is an adoptive mother 41 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,480 of a baby girl through an open adoption that happened in 20/21. 42 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,200 She is originally from the French Caribbean but was born 43 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,520 and grew up in France. She is married and is a mother 44 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,840 of two lovely girls. 1 Biological 1 Adoptive She moved 45 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,720 to the United States in 2003 and has been living in California 46 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,560 for 20 years. She worked in the tech industry 47 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,840 for years but now wants to spend more time with her family, 48 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,000 raising her girls and supporting her husband. 49 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,320 She is a Co host on the podcast High Vibes and a mic with her 50 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,840 friend Sylvia where they talk about parenting and 51 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,800 spirituality. She says that being an adoptive 52 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,200 parent has been a dream come true for her family. 53 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,080 After trying for years to have a second child, here is my 54 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:50,280 interview with Veronique. So we are welcoming Veronique to 55 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:51,840 the show today. Hi, Veronique. 56 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,240 Hello Melissa. Thank you for inviting me. 57 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,720 Yeah. So I don't get a lot of adoptive 58 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,400 parents on the show. So I wanna thank you so much for 59 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,480 volunteering on coming on, 'cause I have 1000 questions to 60 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,400 ask you. And I don't know, we kind of 61 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,400 discussed earlier, I don't know how much time you spend on the 62 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,080 adoption platforms or social media spaces, but the adoptive 63 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,800 parent can kind of be the bad guy or the one getting beat up a 64 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,399 lot or talked about a lot in those spaces. 65 00:04:16,399 --> 00:04:20,360 So that's partly why I want to bring adoptive parents on the 66 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,880 show, because I want to educate people on your perspective. 67 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,320 And so that's why I'm I'm opening up the podcast this 68 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,640 season to adoptive parents as well, because we can't see the 69 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,880 changes that we want to make if we don't get the whole story. 70 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,240 And I feel like that's a big piece of the story. 71 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,480 So you know, I'm coming it from a adoptee lens and you're coming 72 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,280 from the adoptive parent lens. And I'm here to learn from you. 73 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,920 And hopefully, you know, if you feel like you want to ask me a 74 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,560 couple questions, I'm totally open to that as well. 75 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,880 Feel free to ask me anything that comes up. 76 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,840 So let's just start and tell me what you feel comfortable about 77 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:57,480 talking about why you decided to adopt. 78 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,400 Sure. So it has always been very 79 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:01,800 difficult for me to get pregnant. 80 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,960 I met my husband in my 30s, mid 30s, so we didn't waste any 81 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,760 time, but it was very difficult, a lot of miscarriages. 82 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,720 Then finally I got my daughter when I was 39 and after. 83 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,080 Now you had that one's biological. 84 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:17,280 Biological. Yeah. 85 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:18,160 My first one. Sorry. 86 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,320 My first order. Yeah, biological. 87 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,560 When I was 39. And then after that we tried. 88 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,240 I no, I mean, we tried, you know, hormones and other stuff. 89 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,680 And we were about to do IVF. And I was like, you know, I 90 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,480 can't, I can't put my body through that again. 91 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,960 It's it's too much. So I told my husband, I don't 92 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,560 want to do that. She's going to be an only child. 93 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,600 And that's it. And I don't know, one day we 94 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,440 were on vacation and I saw my daughter, She was playing alone 95 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,640 in the pool. And I had like, an opinion. 96 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:45,480 I'm like, oh, no, she can't be alone. 97 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,200 And my husband told me about, He's the one actually who told 98 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,320 me about adoption before. And I was like, oh, I don't 99 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:53,080 know. I don't know. 100 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,240 And I don't know. I had like, an image, mental 101 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:57,840 image in my, you know, in my mind. 102 00:05:57,840 --> 00:05:59,360 And I'm like, OK, yeah, let's do this. 103 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,720 And so this is, you know, the day we decided, OK let's go, you 104 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,720 know, let's check what you know if we can do adoption, you know 105 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:08,760 how long it takes and now we can get there. 106 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:15,040 It was a long, it was kind of a long journey, but also very 107 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,400 short when I checked. Now we know other people, other 108 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,240 adoptive parent. We are very lucky. 109 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:25,080 I think we got, we were matched with a birth mother very, very 110 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:30,600 quickly, but I think it was just at the right time. 111 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:31,840 Everything happened when you talked. 112 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,160 About how that match happens, how did that? 113 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,360 How did that work for you? So I did some research online to 114 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:44,920 to find a legit you know adoptive agency a license but I 115 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,720 live in California license but California and everything and 116 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:52,200 went through actually my husband job because they had referral 117 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,800 and also they will help and got they have to pay the the fee of 118 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,560 the agency because people need to know it's really really 119 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,200 expensive. It can go up to $20,000. 120 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,120 So thank God this job a lot of company in the Bay Area they 121 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:12,880 cover they can give that as a benefit in your benefit and we 122 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,120 were lucky he had that. I think without that we haven't 123 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,600 done it anyway it was really really expensive. 124 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:25,440 So the agency when we started it was the beginning of beginning 125 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,520 of COVID. So usually what they do, they do 126 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,600 seminar, you go to the agency do seminar and they give you all 127 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,560 the information you need as a as a adoptive parent and what you 128 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,960 can expect. So we did 3 seminar online 129 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,320 because it was COVID, 3 seminar online. 130 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,720 Each seminar was like 2 hours. And the thing I really like is 131 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,960 during the seminar they had birth mother that came to to 132 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,120 talk to us would ask them any question we wanted. 133 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,360 They were really open. One was sorry a young girl. 134 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,120 I mean she was she had a baby when she was really young. 135 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,240 So we had that side of the story of somebody very young. 136 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,880 Can I take care of her baby and realized I'm gonna be able to do 137 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,480 this alone. And she was she had an open 138 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:15,720 adoption And the other one she had some mental issue I think 139 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:20,080 bipolar or something like that. So she she realized and the the 140 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,320 the man who she had the baby with was had also like even more 141 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:24,840 mental issues. So she's like, yeah, there's no 142 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,920 way I can do that. And she did a son of an 143 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:28,560 adoption. So I was very happy to see those 144 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,720 two side and the way they explain, you know how it worked 145 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,120 and I was as a adoptive parent, you know and I already have a 146 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:38,159 daughter. I was with you a friend. 147 00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:42,440 Oh my God, I I want, am I going to to compete with another woman 148 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,520 to be a mom because you have you don't want to compete. 149 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,160 You don't have the baby to have two mums, right. 150 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,680 And something the one of the lady said, she said, oh, by by 151 00:08:51,680 --> 00:08:53,960 the way, don't. I mean that's her experience. 152 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:55,640 Maybe it's not the the same for everybody. 153 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,840 But she was saying for her, she doesn't feel like she's really 154 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:03,560 the mum to, even though she see her child almost every week 155 00:09:03,560 --> 00:09:07,200 because she is very close to a child, but she's she's an artist 156 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,480 so she travels a lot. I mean she doesn't have, you 157 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:10,960 know, the time to really take care of a child. 158 00:09:11,560 --> 00:09:16,200 And she said that for her, it's more that she's the auntie now 159 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,680 after a while and the child knows she's the birth mother. 160 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:22,120 And he said to his friend, you know, after mum and he looks 161 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,640 like he was really. So she she, she removed that 162 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,400 part of stress for me. I'm like, OK, so maybe we can do 163 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,600 this. And also my background, I was 164 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,280 raised, my mum had me as a teen or so, So she had a lot of help 165 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,640 from my grandmother, from another woman was taking care of 166 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,600 the kids. So like you say, you know, we 167 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,280 say text her village. So I was raised by like 3 168 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,760 different women and there was no competition. 169 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,120 There was, it wasn't almost like more love and more love. 170 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,680 And I was really, I think I'm OK. 171 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,080 So I'm thinking, you know, oh, if we do open adoption, that 172 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,320 child is going to be very loved by us, by our family. 173 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,440 But she's also going to have a birth mother. 174 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,280 She will know. She will know where she come 175 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,240 from. Because I know it's really hard 176 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:05,680 when you don't know where you come from. 177 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,080 I don't know my dad. And I said, Are you sure about 178 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:09,480 it? Because there's one side of 179 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,960 myself and I'm I'm like you know who am I. 180 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,720 So I want it. I want you know the adopt the 181 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,000 the baby I will going to adopt to know exactly where she's 182 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,680 from. So we're like OK let's do this 183 00:10:20,680 --> 00:10:25,160 let's I think it's a good it's a good way for us to have a baby 184 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,880 so. So what was the process 'cause I 185 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,400 think you had to make a profile and it was like the birth mother 186 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,520 chose you guys, I think. Yeah. 187 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:38,040 So it's like dating. So you have to he felt like he 188 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,400 was dating. So you have to do a whole 189 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,840 profile. So they do they they direct you 190 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,520 to another agency of course. Who's going to do that for you? 191 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:50,720 For some somebody, something outside of their their agency. 192 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,680 It's like a marketing company that's that's what they do and 193 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:56,160 they they do a very, very good job. 194 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,880 So you have and it takes a long time because you have to write 195 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,560 everything about yourself, everything about you know your 196 00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:04,640 kid. If you have a dog picture of 197 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,480 your house you know and it looks very very nice. 198 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,480 They have the profiles on paper and also online because this way 199 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:16,640 they can just give it you know to to birth mother when they at 200 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,200 the hospital if they want they say you know I don't want to 201 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,240 live with the baby so they have a lot of flyer they can pass you 202 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:27,560 know pass along to the birth mothers and of course they can 203 00:11:27,560 --> 00:11:31,520 check also online if somebody's she knows maybe she's six months 204 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,320 and she's like I know and I'm I won't be able to do this she can 205 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,280 go online and check all the profiles all profile profiles 206 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:42,400 are available online So yeah we did we did that we did a profile 207 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:44,600 so. Now you're in competition with a 208 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,160 bunch of other families that are, like, looking. 209 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,840 For babies? Actually, not really. 210 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:51,080 You know why? Because I'm going to do 211 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,160 something that's very funny. We are the only black family in 212 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,440 there and that was a big advantage actually. 213 00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:00,840 I think that's why he went very fast for us because we're a 214 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,640 black family. We also really put in our 215 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:09,040 profile that we were Christian, you know, going to church and 216 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:13,720 everything. And the demographic, they just 217 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,720 told us, the demographic of the kids being a place for adoption. 218 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,200 Most of them are black Latinos and mixed race. 219 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:23,920 So in my hair I was never really worried. 220 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,120 I'm like OK if there's most of them are black. 221 00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:30,560 In my mind the woman is going to you know place a a kid with us 222 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:33,280 might be, she might be also black or Latino mixed race or 223 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,640 whatever. And we're the only family there. 224 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,640 And I think that's why this way went very fast with us. 225 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,160 But the joke was on me anyway, because the the birth model 226 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,280 chose us was white, so. Really. 227 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,640 Oh, wow. But the dad of the baby is 228 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:54,680 black. How how long did it take you 229 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:59,120 guys to get picked? So we're in the middle. 230 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,680 We had like different little scare. 231 00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:06,360 So we're in the middle of doing the paperwork and we weren't 232 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,000 even done doing the paperwork like for three months and we had 233 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,320 an e-mail saying hey we might we might have a match for you and 234 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,400 we're like we're not even done doing the profile and then I 235 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,840 care. But I think she's she's a teen 236 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,920 and she's looking for some for somebody like you. 237 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,240 So she sent us we just wrote her letters but we didn't we didn't 238 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:23,440 get paid for picked for that one. 239 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,240 We're like OK, you know we're not really ready then we are 240 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:31,280 done with everything. Everything was ready and we are 241 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:32,800 going so it was during the pandemic. 242 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,800 So I said OK we're going to go see our family in France for the 243 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,960 whole month of July. Can you put a profile at in 244 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,040 August This way you know won't get much before And I I think 245 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,080 they found a match for something and they emailed me the day I 246 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,400 landed in France, I had an e-mail. 247 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,880 We have a match for you and she's in Arizona, something like 248 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:55,240 that. I'm like can't come back. 249 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,000 It's it's pandemic. You can even leave leave the 250 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,360 country. You know you have to stay in 251 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,760 your house for like 10 days and that was like a match. 252 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,760 And I'm like, Oh my God, this is so long time. 253 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,560 And I was like this is not happening again. 254 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,040 So we had to pass on that one and then after that it took nine 255 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:17,120 months. So we got match in March on our 256 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:21,840 spring break because we're again on vacation every time we go on. 257 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:23,840 Vacation. But this time we went in. 258 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,240 America. Yes, on vacation. 259 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,520 I think it's no one. You don't think about it because 260 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,520 I thought about it every day. Every day. 261 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,880 I was like, oh, this is going to be the day I'm going to see that 262 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,600 e-mail, that phone call, you know, and nothing. 263 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,520 And I'm like, OK, let's let's just relax and have a nice 264 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,560 vacation. We go to New Orleans for a week. 265 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:43,440 After three days, we'll send an e-mail. 266 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,800 We have a match for you. She doesn't even want to see any 267 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,960 profile. She saw you and she wants she 268 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,320 wants you, she wants to choose you. 269 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,480 So are you OK to receive a phone call and start talking with her? 270 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,400 We're like, yes, so we got match after nine months. 271 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:00,800 That is fast. Yeah, right. 272 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,800 What did the Do you know why the birth mother wanted to give up 273 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,960 her child? Oh yeah, in a nutshell. 274 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,920 So she got pregnant with somebody who wasn't her 275 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,520 boyfriend at the time. Then she went back with the 276 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,640 boyfriend, and the boyfriend was like, I don't want the baby and 277 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,400 I don't want to tell my family that you're pregnant with 278 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,640 another man's baby. So we won't tell anybody, but 279 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,640 you have to to take care of it. So she chose a boyfriend and she 280 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,040 was like, you know, I I want, I want to press up with the good 281 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,400 family with the same. She's really spiritual. 282 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,520 She's like, I want a, you know, a good family that will raise 283 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,480 her, you know, in the in the Christian faith and everything. 284 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,160 And she wanted a black family because she's, I think she was a 285 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,480 bit paranoid, you know, about race. 286 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,120 And she was like, if she's, if she's a race with the black 287 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,360 family, we would be able to teach her maybe to be careful 288 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,480 about, you know, racism or whatever. 289 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,840 She thought that if she plays her with the white family, they 290 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,640 won't be aware of this because otherwise miss race and she's 291 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,240 like, if she's with the black family, you're more aware of 292 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,680 what's going on in the world. So you'll be able to teach her, 293 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,440 you know, to be aware of what's going on around her. 294 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,840 I was like, OK, yeah, sure. I mean. 295 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,560 Is that something that you feel like you're gonna, you know, 296 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:23,600 your daughter someday might ask why her birth mother gave her up 297 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,640 And you know, hearing that, like you just said she chose her 298 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,560 boyfriend over her baby and had the feelings surrounding that 299 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,360 she'll have about that. How do you think you'll handle 300 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,400 that? I don't think I will say it like 301 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,000 that. I might not say it like that. 302 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:39,800 So maybe she's gonna watch that later, I don't know. 303 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,760 But I think we'll explain, you know that her mum at the time, 304 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,600 because I think I know her mum has also some mental issue. 305 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:48,160 She has. She has mental issue. 306 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,600 We realized that after a while and I think she was in her right 307 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,040 mind and she was really brainwashed by by by that man 308 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,960 because I think deep down she didn't want to give up the baby. 309 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,120 I don't think she really wanted to place her baby and if she 310 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:03,920 also she had issue with her family. 311 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,359 We don't later that her family offered to help her, her parents 312 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,079 or sister and she was in. I was talking on the phone with 313 00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:13,920 her like every day for like for two months before she gave 314 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,040 birth. I was talking with her every day 315 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,280 for maybe two to three hours on the phone every day. 316 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,319 She was calling me all the time because she didn't need to talk. 317 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:23,920 And she was telling me, you know, my sister wants to take 318 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,160 care of the baby, but I'm not going to do that. 319 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:27,880 My parents, I don't. I don't know. 320 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,520 I don't, I don't trust them. So I think she was in a bad 321 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,160 place with her family at the time. 322 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,640 I think I, you know, at at the time when that happened, the 323 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,520 pressure with the boyfriend not really really being good 324 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,600 relation with relation with her parents. 325 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,600 The only thing she thought about or I'm going to place her in a 326 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,560 good family and she wanted a close adoption to protect 327 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:48,560 herself. She's like, I don't want to know 328 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,120 anything about her. I don't want her to contact me 329 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,720 because I'm going to live my life with my boyfriend. 330 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,240 We're going to have other children and I don't want her to 331 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,800 resent me that I placed her. I didn't keep her and I had 332 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,320 other kids with another man. So she wanted to protect herself 333 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,360 and she and she was like, I don't want her to know my last 334 00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:05,600 name, anything. I don't want to have any 335 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,520 contact. That was at the beginning, and 336 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,480 then it changed. Then it changed. 337 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,800 What changed? What do you think changed? 338 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,800 Did you mean that you went from a close to an open adoption? 339 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,520 So what changed? She broke up with a boyfriend 340 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,480 because the boyfriend also had issues. 341 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,240 So they broke up. And when they broke up, she 342 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:24,800 realized, Oh, my God, what did I do? 343 00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:27,040 She relaxed. What did I do? 344 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,560 I have, right, actually to see my daughter, which she does. 345 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,080 And we're completely open. We're like, yeah, sure. 346 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:34,800 No, let's do this. There's no problem. 347 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,920 So after six months, she comes back, you know, in our lives. 348 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,280 Give me a phone call. At the same time, I receive a 349 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,240 phone call and I receive an e-mail from the agency saying, 350 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,440 hey, you know, she's trying to contact you. 351 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:47,560 I'm like, oh, OK. I still have the same number. 352 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:52,080 And she calls me and she's like, OK, let's actually I want, I 353 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,560 would like to do an open, you know, adoption And because we 354 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,240 didn't sign any paperwork about close or because if it's a close 355 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,560 adoption, I mean she just disappear, right. 356 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,520 Nothing happened. And if it's open adoption, there 357 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,240 you have to sign paperwork. He has to be seen by the judge 358 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,720 and everything and everything is is clear and you have to respect 359 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,400 what's on the papers. So I'm like, OK, let's draw some 360 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:15,440 papers. No problem. 361 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:21,200 And I think, I mean, we couldn't know. 362 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,320 We didn't know at that time, you know, her state of mind. 363 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,520 But when she came back in her mind, she was going to get her, 364 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:33,440 her daughter back. I think she had the idea that 365 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:38,680 her daughter was in foster care. And I was like, OK, where did 366 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,720 she get that ID from? So I called the agency. 367 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,320 I'm like, you you. She knows what? 368 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,720 She's fine, right? She knows it's not foster care. 369 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,320 And the agency was like, yeah, she does. 370 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,760 She's like, they just was like before we sign anything with 371 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,760 birth mother, she's seen by us by a psychologist. 372 00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:55,560 They talk with her. We explain to her like a lot of 373 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:57,080 time. We give her a lot of time also 374 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:03,600 to change her mind because when we went to to get her daughter 375 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,360 at the hospital she didn't sign any paper. 376 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:09,000 We were we were just not even guardian. 377 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,560 We were babysitters and the agency told us clearly careful 378 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,160 don't bring your family. This is not happy. 379 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,400 You know, it's happy for you, but the birth mother, you have 380 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,280 to, you know, be conscious that she's really sad and 381 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:27,680 everything's really sensitive. So they say, you know, be 382 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,040 sensitive about that and remember that you you are 383 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:32,840 babysitters for at least three weeks. 384 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,720 Because how? Is that change your mind? 385 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,920 You probably felt like you couldn't bond with the baby. 386 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,800 Like, are you afraid? To do Too bad because when I saw 387 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,960 her, that was it. When they when they rolled her 388 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,240 in a little, you know, crib and she had a little bow in a little 389 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,160 hat with a little bow. I was like OK, yeah, she, that's 390 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,800 my daughter. So I mean there was I knew you 391 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,400 know she could change her mind and yeah we were really scared 392 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,160 for like scared. We were very not, you know, 393 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,160 sleeping on our two ears for like a week because after a week 394 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:07,240 she's time. She took a week. 395 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,120 So they didn't, you know, Foster, the hospital signed the 396 00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:13,120 paperwork. Now, you know, they gave out a 397 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:15,600 lot of time and they say when you when you you have three 398 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,760 weeks actually. So when you feel you, you want 399 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,520 to sign, you know, the paperwork, let us know. 400 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,040 And she called after a week and she said, OK, I'm ready. 401 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,240 And they met with a witness and they signed all the paperwork. 402 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,960 So I know everything was legit. But I realized after she had 403 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:36,440 some mental issue and I think she, yeah, she thinks she 404 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:41,320 thought, you know that I don't know, She made a story up in her 405 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,720 mind like you know, the the the baby was in the foster care and 406 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,360 she was trying to to go through the contract and everything to 407 00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:50,680 see what she could she could do to get her baby back. 408 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:55,800 Oh wow, after the baby was born. Oh, six months after, yeah. 409 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,280 Oh, so OK. Yeah, when she came back in our 410 00:21:58,280 --> 00:21:59,800 lives. When she came back in our lives 411 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:03,160 after six months. OK, so she it was an open 412 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,400 adoption, but you took her home after she signed. 413 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:08,840 Well, even before she signed, you had her. 414 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,880 But then she kind of disappeared for a while and came back. 415 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,320 She's appeared for six months. She's appeared for six months. 416 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,640 Yeah. After we left the hospital, we 417 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,640 thought it was a closed adoption, so everybody went 418 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,760 their way. She, she went back with the 419 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,720 boyfriend and everything. And after six months she came 420 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,520 back because he didn't work out for the boyfriend. 421 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,280 And she felt that she was free now to redo what she wanted to 422 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,400 do, which was to be in contact with the daughter she never 423 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,320 want, really wanted to take contact. 424 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:39,040 I think I can see it now. Yeah, So did she come see her 425 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,960 or? So from the contract we have a 426 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,920 monthly video call we do with her. 427 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:49,520 We send her also a monthly picture. 428 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:54,800 Every month we send picture and she can we have a visit face to 429 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,560 face. Once a year, once a year she 430 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,760 can, you know, we have to meet. But it was very difficult at the 431 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,920 beginning because first of all she's not really consistent. 432 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:04,840 Sometimes she doesn't show up, don't know why. 433 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,320 And then when she showed up, she said, oh, you know, you owe me 434 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,360 to visit. We're like, no, it doesn't work 435 00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:11,920 like that. Oh gosh, yes. 436 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:13,640 Wait, I'm sorry. No, it doesn't work like that. 437 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,560 You cannot. We cannot do that. 438 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,920 Then we had for like 3 to four months, very bad almost. 439 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,080 I blocked off on my phone because she was getting very 440 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:26,720 aggressive. She was saying I'm only the 441 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:27,960 babysitter. I'm not. 442 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:29,880 I'm not. I'm not her mum. 443 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,800 I didn't bore her. You know, the mum, I'm the mum. 444 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,400 I'm going to raise her. So she was really living in our 445 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:40,880 own, you know, own world. And I told my husband I cannot 446 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,760 deal with her anymore. This is because she's not 447 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,360 talking like this to my husband, by the way. 448 00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:45,680 It's a completely different person. 449 00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:47,880 It's only she has a point with me, of course, because I 450 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,320 represent, you know, her. Or her daughter. 451 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:50,960 So I. I know. 452 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:52,400 I'm just replacing her. Yeah. 453 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,120 I replacing, yeah. I know everything. 454 00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:55,400 I know. I know what she's doing. 455 00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:01,880 So we had like a lot of nasty phone calls and I think also she 456 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,240 was recording the phone calls. So we started recording the 457 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,720 phone call. So he was getting very nasty. 458 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,280 So we started to, I went back to the agency, they said OK, this 459 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:16,680 is not moderator, how do you call these people? 460 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,160 They tried to help facilitate. Moderator, OK. 461 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,200 Conversation. So we're like and this woman, 462 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:28,000 this moderator talked to her also when she had the baby to 463 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,360 help her go through the, you know, through the the pain. 464 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:35,240 She's also a psychologist and she so the birth mother didn't 465 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,280 want to continue because she she said that oh, I have my own 466 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,400 psychologist, but the moderator asked her but is is your 467 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,720 psychologist adoption specialist? 468 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,640 Yeah, because. This is what you need. 469 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,160 You need somebody who knows how to deal with adoption. 470 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,560 And we paid for everything. We paid for the session. 471 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,680 She was, she had like 5 sessions with a psychologist. 472 00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:59,760 We prefer to be part of the group of birth mother and I 473 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,080 think that's what she was missing. 474 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,600 I think she needed to see, to be part of the community of that 475 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,680 mother and maybe you know, see, you know what is going on with 476 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,520 the other, you know, other ladies, you know in there. 477 00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:14,160 She refused everything, of course. 478 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,080 So the mother writer, we try to do something with the mother, 479 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,960 she refused. Then we had to call a lawyer, 480 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:23,840 'cause we're like, what are all right there? 481 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,680 Because this is going too far. She's getting very, very. 482 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,560 She's really aggressive and she's very, very, Yeah. 483 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,400 It's not, it's not good for for the baby because every time we 484 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,800 talk on the phone at the end with the her crying because she 485 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,360 can feel the tension, yeah. That's not good for her and. 486 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:44,120 That's not what I wanted. I wanted the all love from all 487 00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:45,960 of us. And I'm very. 488 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,320 I was really open, you know, for her to be part of this, yeah. 489 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,000 I mean, she's reacting from her trauma, but she's also refusing 490 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,120 the help to to help, you know, that's there to help her too. 491 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,040 Yeah, I can't imagine at the beginning, I thought. 492 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,480 What is she doing? I didn't really understand also. 493 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,040 And then when I talked to the moderator, she's like, there's 494 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,960 several phases. She's in the phase of I need to 495 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,440 try to get her back this way. I can tell myself I tried 496 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,120 everything. She's like, she's in that phase 497 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,960 of denial that if I don't try everything, people are going to 498 00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:23,120 ask me, where did you place her? Or I will tell myself, oh, I 499 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:24,960 didn't try enough. So she's trying everything she 500 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,560 can just to to tell herself I tried. 501 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,080 So I'm like. OK, so finally by the end of the 502 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,320 year my husband really insisted and told her, you know you need 503 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,320 to see her because you need to see her for real. 504 00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:41,680 So you will see she's a real child and what she needs because 505 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,080 10-15 minutes on the phone and there's the picture, it doesn't 506 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,760 feel real, you need to meet her. And then she got very nervous. 507 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,920 She cancelled three time. Tango wouldn't buy the. 508 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:57,120 Ticket. Because she, she moved to. 509 00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:00,480 Oh yeah, she she, she moved from to another, no, not another 510 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,240 state but like the city, like like around Los Angeles. 511 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,080 So because we before she was like only three hours away from 512 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,120 us. So finally she's like, OK, can I 513 00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:11,760 come with my mom? And we're like, you know, 514 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,720 whoever you want, there's no problem. 515 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,040 So finally we meet in a very nice park. 516 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,360 It was a fabulous day. It was very, very nice day. 517 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,240 And the day before I went there, I fasted the whole day and I 518 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,520 went to church and I prayed. Because I really believe. 519 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,440 In fasting and praying, because I think you know, your prayers 520 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,440 will really get heard better. And that day was perfect. 521 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:41,280 We met and all the nastiness, the meanness, everything went 522 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:42,920 away. It's like nothing happened. 523 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,800 She hugged me. The parents were very nice. 524 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,800 We were able also to ask the parents know what's going on. 525 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,360 Really. She spent the whole afternoon 526 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:54,760 with her daughter and I gave her some space because she, you 527 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,600 know, took her arm and she started walking around in the 528 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,040 back with her and kissing her and talking to her. 529 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,080 And I'm like, and I look at that and I'm like, oh, this is, you 530 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,800 know, even talking about it right now. 531 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,280 I'm going to cry because it was really, it was really nice. 532 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,440 And when I, when I handed her, you know, my daughter, I told 533 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,800 her, I told my daughter, Oh yeah, that's your mum. 534 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,000 You want to say hi to your mum? And when I say that her dad was 535 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,480 next to me and he started crying, he's like, you don't 536 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,960 know what you just said that you don't know how important what 537 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,560 you just. It is what you just said in my 538 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,800 I'm like, I know it's her mum, it's her birth mother, there's 539 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,520 no problem. And in my. 540 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,400 And we told her she can call you mum. 541 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,040 We have no issue for her calling you mum because this is not the 542 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,920 word she's going to use for me anyway, because she's going to 543 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,760 use the French words for us. We speak French at all. 544 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,800 So there's no competition. There's no two mum. 545 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,720 There's going to be a mum and there's going to be a mummy. 546 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,440 So how? Was your daughter when they met. 547 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,080 Sorry. How old was your? 548 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,960 Daughter when they met, oh, it was like. 549 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,280 Last year. So she was one year and a half. 550 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,280 Like one year and a half. She's born in May. 551 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,200 She was one year and a half. Everything went fine. 552 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:05,600 It was a beautiful day at the end. 553 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,960 We all prayed together. We heard that that was a can I 554 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,000 make a can I make a prayer for us? 555 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,880 You know, we all need to get along. 556 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,480 And I'm like, sure, you know, it takes a village. 557 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,560 So we all prayed together. It was very, very nice. 558 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,120 We left. I was like, Oh my God, I can't 559 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:22,600 believe this, You know, this is perfect. 560 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,720 We're back, you know, because when she was pregnant and we're 561 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,960 talking, I'm not going to say we're friends, but we we're kind 562 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,560 of very close. I was getting very close to her. 563 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:33,920 And I felt like, OK, we're back to that. 564 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,240 And when we were, when we were at the park, I went to the 565 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,600 bathroom to change my daughter's diaper. 566 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,800 And she came in the bathroom and she's like, Veronique, I want to 567 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,800 thank you. I really want to thank you for 568 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,920 being OK with this. And I'm being OK with what she 569 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,400 said, You know, being OK with me, seeing her. 570 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,240 I'm like, listen, I never said I wasn't OK with this. 571 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,760 Never. I I was always open to this. 572 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,720 I want this. There's no problem. 573 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,280 Let's do this. You know, smaller for the baby. 574 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,200 So I thought we were good, right? 575 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,440 Uh oh. Yes. 576 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,960 Sounds like there's. A Part 2, yeah. 577 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,120 So that was in November. Then we left for Christmas, went 578 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,720 on vacation. My husband did the the last 579 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,840 Christmas video call with her. She could see see her for 580 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,360 Christmas. Then we came back in January and 581 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,360 I'm like, OK, so I'm going back on the call because I didn't 582 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,080 need to do the call for like 6-7 months because we couldn't talk 583 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:33,680 anymore. So I'm not going to just me. 584 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,600 And so my husband's like, OK, Joanie is going to call you when 585 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,880 do you want to do the visit? And she's like, I don't want to 586 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,520 talk to her. You know why what? 587 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,480 Like I have my reason. You know why I'm like, back to 588 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:50,840 this. I see she sounds. 589 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,000 That was two months ago. We were hugging and crying. 590 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,680 What's going on? What? 591 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,360 So I think I'm like, I don't understand what's going on. 592 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,240 We heard we talk and your dad made that prayer. 593 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,200 We need to get along. Please don't go back to there. 594 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,040 And I and I told her I already moved on from this. 595 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,280 Can we move on from this? And she said, OK, like, OK, 596 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,680 she's good. Then the day she wanted to talk 597 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,680 to, I think it was maybe Ferrer now because she want to talk to 598 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,720 her Valentine's Day. But on Wednesday, she doesn't 599 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,440 answer my call, She doesn't answer my call, she doesn't 600 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,080 answer my call, and she takes my husband. 601 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,320 She's like, I don't want her to call me, blah, blah, blah. 602 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,680 So to make the story short, I send her a voicemail saying, 603 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,680 listen, your daughter is ready to see you. 604 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,880 She's having dinner. She's ready to see you for 605 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,520 Valentine's Day. She's not going to wait forever 606 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,280 because after I have to give her a bath and everything. 607 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,080 So if you want to see her, it's now. 608 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,080 If you don't see her now, you're going to see her next month. 609 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,000 And from now on, it's going to be. 610 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,120 Once is me, once is my husband, once is me, once is my husband. 611 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,480 If you don't want to see when I'm when it's me, you're going 612 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,480 to see her every two months. So I said also something you 613 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,080 know, You told me you were Christian. 614 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,880 If you're Christian, you wouldn't behave like this. 615 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,320 This is your daughter. You're putting what you have 616 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,640 against me above her. This is this shouldn't be 617 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,640 happening. And I told her, you know, and I 618 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,040 think that's did the trick. I said we prayed together. 619 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,880 I said we prayed together, we hug each other. 620 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,040 And we we made that promise to God that we were getting along. 621 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:25,040 And now you're doing this 5 minutes later she called, but I 622 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:26,720 think that did the trick, you know, because I talk about 623 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,960 religion. And so she talked to her 624 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:36,040 daughter and, you know, after she talked to her like 15 625 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,720 minutes. But now we're back to work. 626 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,760 She doesn't want to talk to me. She doesn't want to. 627 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,120 She's still in that state of mind. 628 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,880 Yeah, it sounds. Like maybe she's like maybe on 629 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,000 medication and then off medication or something. 630 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,280 I think that's so there's some. Bipolar issues something. 631 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,360 No. When we had a file because they 632 00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,880 tell you, you know if if the birth mother has no drug issue, 633 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,280 mental issue because of course the the women are going to place 634 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,120 their kids you know they're not they have issue or they wouldn't 635 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,640 do that right. So for her I was they were just 636 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:16,520 saying that she was pretty depression and that she stopped 637 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:17,960 the medication while she was pregnant. 638 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,400 She's like, I don't want to. But I feel like. 639 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,120 When she's not taking that medication, she's kind of 640 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,360 behaving normally and I think maybe when she's on a on that 641 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,280 medication it makes her a bit cuckoo. 642 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,640 I don't know. But exactly what you said, you 643 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,440 know, my husband was like, OK, is Sean medication or not now is 644 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,480 it, You know, Doctor Jakeen or Mr. High we're going to talk to 645 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:39,560 today. We never know. 646 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,200 We never know what to expect. Yeah. 647 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:48,400 So how is it now? So now last how old is your 648 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:49,880 daughter? Now she's 3. 649 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,080 She's almost 2. She's almost two in May, so 650 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,120 right now she really doesn't know what's going on. 651 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,480 This was recent. Yeah, this is obvious that was. 652 00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,080 I'm doing, I'm doing February, yeah. 653 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:04,200 A long time is dead this year. So my yeah, my daughter, she 654 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:05,520 doesn't know what's going on. She knows. 655 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,680 She sees that Lady once a month. I guess she doesn't even 656 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,080 remember, you know, but she saw her, the one before, because 657 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,120 she's still little. She, the birth mother, she 658 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,440 missed like two or three calls. She didn't do January then she 659 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,520 didn't want to do February then she arrests us, telling, saying, 660 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,400 you know, OK, you you owe me two phone calls. 661 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:23,880 And we're like, no, we're not going to do that. 662 00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:26,840 If she missed a call in 30 days, that's your problem. 663 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,600 You know we cannot get your interest service. 664 00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:34,560 So now my my my fear a little bit is that she might be 665 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,719 consistent for a while and one our daughter is going to know 666 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,520 who she is, she might disappear again. 667 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:43,840 That's. My fear, I don't know how. 668 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,560 And she changed. She changes her phone number. 669 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,600 Like every month she has a new phone number. 670 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:50,760 We have to keep up with her. Oh, OK. 671 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,040 This is. She changed her phone number 672 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,600 last week. Again, this is my new. 673 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,719 Phone It's going to be hurtful for your daughter. 674 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,840 But I wouldn't try and shelter her from that too much because 675 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,760 you know she needs to know that and you're just gonna need to be 676 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,840 there to help her through that. But I would just let those cards 677 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,760 fall It's it's on the birth mother at that point and you 678 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,360 know yeah unfortunately that's that's all gonna she's gonna 679 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,760 realize that like you just said she's gonna realize mom's back 680 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:26,040 and forth and that maybe I'm just not important enough for to 681 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,760 be in her life and that's going to be you know some issues. 682 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,040 That was another thing I was going to ask you and I think you 683 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,160 sent me a question about that. What what is available for 684 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,400 adoptive parents and the birth mother like after the adoption? 685 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,720 Like is there psychological? And also for the baby is there 686 00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:47,640 like as the baby grows is there any or is that kind of on you 687 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,200 guys to get counseling for the baby, I think for the. 688 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,360 For the birth mother of the agency, they give you a lot of 689 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,000 option for. So like I said, you know to pay 690 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,880 for the psychologist like at least five session for to see a 691 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:03,520 psychologist and she can be part of a group of birth mother and 692 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:09,280 the group is being lead, lead by a mediator and they can and they 693 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,960 have, I think they have a Facebook also page and they can 694 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,280 meet. I mean I thought that it was 695 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,240 still COVID. So I guess they had zoom, you 696 00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:20,000 know meetings stuff like that. So there was some support. 697 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,600 There was some support, but she refused all of them. 698 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,880 She wanted to do any of them. She was like, no, I don't want 699 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,360 people to know my life and stuff like that. 700 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,800 I'm like, you don't need to tell about you, but you can maybe 701 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,880 listen to the people and see how they react, you know, how they 702 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,200 act, you know, because they're you're in the same position. 703 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,920 Yeah, I was going to say. It it makes you feel not so 704 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,120 alone that you're not, you know, your feelings are valid and 705 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,040 yeah, exactly what? You're what you're. 706 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,760 Going through before you adopted, what kind of training 707 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,560 did you get on raising an adoptee, 'cause it can be kind 708 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,600 of challenging, yeah. Did they give you anything? 709 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:53,960 So yeah, they. Gave us a lot of books to read. 710 00:36:54,600 --> 00:37:00,520 So I have one book that I've not yet started but it's in my list. 711 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,640 So we bought one of the book and they had also a lot of videos 712 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,520 that we could watch, you know, from their website. 713 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,880 So they give you some material, you know, they give you some 714 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:16,480 material to some direction to go and and they do the semi now. 715 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,320 So when they explain, you know what to expect. 716 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,560 Maybe not raising the baby, but what to expect now with the like 717 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,240 the process. The process, yeah. 718 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:29,000 Yeah. Did you notice any behavior 719 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,600 issues with your daughter, like when you brought her home? 720 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,080 Like did you notice any like excessive crying or sadness or 721 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,360 grief or any? No, I think. 722 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,680 She's going on, Yeah, after the visit. 723 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,280 You mean the facilities? No. 724 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,120 Like as a? Baby, when you brought her home. 725 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,120 Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, like at. 726 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,000 First being taken from the birth mother and having that no 727 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:50,480 because. What? 728 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,360 So what happened when she was born? 729 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,120 I was supposed to be there at the hospital and she wanted me 730 00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:59,640 to be there at the and you were on vacation. 731 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,560 Again or something. No, no, no. 732 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:02,640 No, no. Oh, no, no, no, no. 733 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:03,760 We knew where she was going to be. 734 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,640 She was due to like, we're not going anywhere. 735 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,560 So we prepare everything. I book a hotel for a whole week. 736 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:09,640 I'm going to work from the hotel. 737 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,920 My husband is going to stay there with our elders, you know, 738 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:13,960 at home. I'm going to go there because 739 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,720 she lives three hours away from where we were and the day was 740 00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:20,320 supposed to all go all go there and spend the weekend there. 741 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,800 And my husband was going to go back home on Sunday. 742 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,760 The baby arrived at like 7:00 AM. 743 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,920 We're still in bed. I woke up, had like 3 missed 744 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,360 calls, two from the agency. One from here I'm in. 745 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,360 Labor, I'm like, no. So we're driving like Maniac on 746 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,440 the highway. Here we go there and she. 747 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,880 Was already born. I can't believe this. 748 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:50,200 So it was really well arranged. We had we had a a room next to 749 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,600 her in the hospital. Everything was taken care of. 750 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:59,240 I'm not OK, thank you very much. And the thing she didn't want to 751 00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:00,760 she didn't hold her when she was born. 752 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,240 Nobody really hold her. So by the time we arrived, she 753 00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:07,720 was she, she was born for like 3 hours and she maybe had been 754 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:13,280 held, held maybe by by by a nurse, you know, something like 755 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,280 that. And my my husband held there for 756 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,560 like 6 hours. He didn't let her go. 757 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,200 He just like was she was within like 6 hours. 758 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,120 Then we slept there and so we were a little bit of an 759 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,560 attraction at the hospital because I think they never had 760 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:30,920 an adoption like this open adoption, you know, in that 761 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:32,880 hospital. So we had a lot of questions. 762 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,920 Is she your surrogate? Who is she? 763 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,600 A friend. How do you? 764 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:39,440 Know each other. So all the nails were all around 765 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,680 and we were like the style of the of the floor, right? 766 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:44,360 I didn't know what. Was going on. 767 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,160 So did she ever hold the baby? The birthday? 768 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,120 So yeah, one of the. Nurse talked to her and said you 769 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,560 have to say goodbye. You have to acknowledge, you 770 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,960 know that you had a baby and you have to say goodbye. 771 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,920 So they asked us know is it OK? We're like, yeah, sure because 772 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,520 she didn't like, made any decision when we were driving 773 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:03,800 there. I received a phone call from the 774 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,560 hospital and and they they tell me so we need to do that on the 775 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,840 baby, this interruption on the baby, is that OK with you? 776 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,000 And like what? And. 777 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,240 And they said, yeah, we are the birth mother. 778 00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:15,760 And she said, no, no, ask the parents. 779 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,040 So I'm like, OK, yeah, yeah, do whatever you need to do. 780 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,880 All right. So she wanted, she didn't want 781 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,080 to hold her or anything. So we said, yeah, that's fine. 782 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:27,800 So she came in our room and the baby was having like a little 783 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,320 noodle test for audition. So the there was a nurse there 784 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:33,760 and the nurse said, oh, you want her to hold her? 785 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,680 So she hold her was the while the nurse was doing the test and 786 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,640 he was really like and I I look at them and I'm like, this is 787 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,840 that was really cute. You know she was holding her and 788 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,040 she was caressing her head but then she started to freak out. 789 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:49,880 She started to. Freak out the. 790 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,080 Baby was really small, by the way. 791 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,680 She was really small when she was born. 792 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,360 And so she started to freak out and she was like, she's too 793 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:57,520 heavy, She's too heavy. I can't. 794 00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,360 I can't. And I thought, I think she was 795 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,320 about to drop her or something. So my husband jumped and said, 796 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,040 OK, I'm, I'm going to do it and it it, you know, it took over. 797 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:05,800 Yeah. Oh my. 798 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,000 Gosh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think. She freaked out a little bit and 799 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,040 then the nurse left. And we started, you know, she 800 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,600 turned around. She said thank you. 801 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,080 You don't know what you're doing from you're doing, you know, for 802 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:18,920 me. Thank you very much. 803 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:20,720 I want to thank you. And she started holding me and 804 00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:23,480 we started crying together. I'm telling you, we were really, 805 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,560 really close. So she, yeah, that's all the 806 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,400 contact she had with the baby. And when we came home with her, 807 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,160 she was the perfect baby. She slept after like two or 808 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,080 three months. She did like full nights. 809 00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:41,160 I'm like, Oh my God, it's so much easier when you don't give 810 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:46,160 birth, you know, you don't have all the recovery to. 811 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,400 Deal with Yeah. Much. 812 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:50,640 So much. Easier so. 813 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,800 But now we didn't feel like there was any. 814 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,920 The only thing I could I could say from what I remember my 815 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,480 first daughter, which was natural. 816 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:07,600 I think the bonding, the bonding time with her took a bit longer, 817 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:12,160 like for her to really come to me or hug me anything like that. 818 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:18,280 I think my daughter it was more. Natural instinct was there. 819 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,480 Yeah, Yeah, so. I know it's maybe because I 820 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:21,760 breastfeed her. Also. 821 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,080 No, I think breastfeeding or so bonds you with the baby a a bit 822 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,960 more. So I didn't breastfeed her, so I 823 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:28,760 don't know. But now? 824 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,920 Yeah, now. Now she's like, she's kissing me 825 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:31,880 all the time. She's. 826 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,320 I mean, she's. She runs. 827 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,040 To me, at daycare, when she sees me, she's like. 828 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,120 You know she. So she knows who I am. 829 00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:44,880 There's no, yeah, we don't feel any difference. 830 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:46,760 I mean, for us, she's our daughter. 831 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:47,960 There's no differences. Yeah. 832 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,600 Do you think that adoption is traumatic for the baby being 833 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:59,960 separated from the birth mother? That's a good question. 834 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,000 I know it's traumatic for the birth mother, for sure. 835 00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:08,640 That's traumatic for her. That's 100% for the baby. 836 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,480 I did. I don't know. 837 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,840 I I'm not really sure. Because like I say, you know, 838 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,560 when we came, we hold her right away. 839 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,680 She wasn't like, you know, in the nursery, all alone in a 840 00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:24,040 little creep for a whole day. We came and we really took care 841 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,600 of her right away. Do you really know, you know, 842 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,120 who's taking care of you? I mean, like I said, you know, I 843 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,280 was raised by another woman and I thought she was my mum. 844 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,320 I didn't really feel, you know, and I think the confusion came 845 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,440 later when I was age to understand, Oh no, she's not my 846 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:40,320 mum. That's my mum. 847 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,920 I don't think I really had any. When I was detailed for me was. 848 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,440 Oh yeah, You know, she's the one giving me my bottle or, you 849 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,440 know, she's the one feeding me. I don't think there was a big 850 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:57,160 issue with that. How do you handle discussions 851 00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:58,720 with your daughter? You probably haven't had many 852 00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:02,200 yet, but if when she comes to you and has, you know, questions 853 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,040 about her birth family or adoption in general, how do you 854 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,760 plan on handling those questions, especially with her 855 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,480 birth mother being kind of erratic and well, I'm. 856 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,320 Hoping I'm hoping that we can still contact actually with the 857 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,440 parents of the birth mother, because I want the plan. 858 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,040 When we were there at the park they asked us, you know how we 859 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,400 they had a lot of gift for her and stuff and they had they 860 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,440 arranged a picnic for us. They were really, really nice 861 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,920 people. And so she, the, the, the 862 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,080 parents said can we stay in contact with you you know have 863 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,480 your address so we can send a gift for Christmas or. 864 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,560 And we said, yeah, sure. And Herman were like, oh, the 865 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,440 birth of she has her address. I think she was. 866 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,840 She has her address from her paper, the paperwork. 867 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,120 And I said, you know she can you know give them to you and was 868 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:47,720 supposed to exchange for numbers. 869 00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:50,120 I don't know what happened. I think I thought my husband did 870 00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:51,760 it. He thought I did it. 871 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,240 Nobody did anything. And when we left, I'm like, did 872 00:44:55,240 --> 00:44:57,920 you give us the the information? And he said, Oh no, I thought 873 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,600 you did it, but I was like, oh, we can do it later. 874 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,320 It's not not because everything is good now. 875 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,880 Now it's back to work. So I can't even I don't even 876 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,400 dare asking her can we have, you know, your parents information. 877 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,080 This way we can send them things. 878 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,520 So I'm hoping. She's sending. 879 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,120 Pictures, forwarding all the pictures and everything. 880 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,720 Maybe our parents are her parents are going to ask her, 881 00:45:19,720 --> 00:45:23,600 you know, for the address. I'm not really sure, but I think 882 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,360 for the future we will be in in contact with them and we'll be 883 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,160 able, you know, to even visit, visit them, you know, without 884 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,920 her or whatever, because she has like six or seven brothers and 885 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,720 sisters. And the dad? 886 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:38,640 The dad was sad. Because like, you know, she has 887 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,960 cousins. We have no other grandchildren. 888 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:46,480 We like to know her actually or so, and she's doesn't know that 889 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,160 part of the family and we want her to know that part of the 890 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:50,960 family. She has cousins and she has 891 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,360 grandparents. Yeah. 892 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,080 What? Would you say are the pros and 893 00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:00,480 cons of open versus a closed adoption, in your opinion, in 894 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:05,640 your experience, yeah. I think the pros and cons, I 895 00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,200 think it depends on the birth mother. 896 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,240 In our case, I don't think open adoption is good for her to be 897 00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:12,800 honest. I think every month is. 898 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:17,480 It's torture for her just to see me or just to hear my voice or I 899 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:24,320 think the agency usually so they told usually the the the rules 900 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:28,840 of the visit are every two months pictures and video calls 901 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,960 once a year the face to face and but she was really insisting and 902 00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,240 they're like she's really insisting do you mind doing once 903 00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:39,560 a month And I'm like no I don't care I'm I'm always posting 904 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,840 picture you know on Facebook every day so once a month it's 905 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,920 OK No, I think it's too much. I think it's too much for her. 906 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,640 I didn't. Realize what she can. 907 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,080 Handle and what she can handle and yeah. 908 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,760 I think it's too much for her. So I think it depends, you know, 909 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:56,960 if you who do you have to deal with? 910 00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,440 If it's like for instance a Teen Mom, but she's right in her 911 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:01,880 mind, you know, there's no problem. 912 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,040 Or it could be a mother where you have 55 kids and she there's 913 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,760 no way she can handle 1/6 mom. You know people, rational, open 914 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,840 adoption is great, rational people. 915 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,360 But people who have mental issue drugs issues, the thing like 916 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,240 that, I don't know if he's good for her. 917 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:18,840 I don't know. I don't. 918 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,840 Know if you would, as a birth mother, giving up your child, if 919 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,680 you would know how you're going to react in that moment. 920 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:26,760 Oh yeah, no. Because it's so. 921 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,720 Traumatic. I can't even imagine what you 922 00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:32,960 what you're going through in that moment and then what you 923 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,680 have to do to live every day after that. 924 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:41,440 It's just like I, as a mother cannot imagine, you know. 925 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,200 And I don't think you can kind of you might know. 926 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,080 You might think you how you might react, but I don't think 927 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,480 you really know until you're in that moment, you know and and 928 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,480 actually giving up your child. Let's talk, let's talk about, 929 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:55,600 oh, you want to say something about that. 930 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,240 No, no, no. No, don't worry. 931 00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,040 Let's talk about the post adoption contract agreement. 932 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,160 The PAC, I'm not really familiar with that. 933 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,440 So can you tell us what that is? So yeah, so this is. 934 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,400 Where you write everything in details, how it's going to be, 935 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:15,880 you know after the adoption, how many visit, how many, what she 936 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:20,000 can do, what she cannot do. So for instance, we could, if we 937 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,640 were really mean, we could stop all of this, all the the contact 938 00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,280 because there is a a little clause in the contact saying, 939 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,520 you know, if there's a lack of trust and if there's a lack of 940 00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,640 disrespect, something like that, you know, you you could go see a 941 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,120 judge and say we need to change something. 942 00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:38,240 So my husband is really against that. 943 00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:40,120 I don't want to deal with that either. 944 00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:44,560 So we're not going to do that. But there was a lack of, there's 945 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:49,480 a lack of of trust now because we know she might talk to 946 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,880 another, to lawyers or whatever to try to see if she can have 947 00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:53,760 her daughter back. Why would you do that when you 948 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,200 know it's it's final, nothing is going to change. 949 00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,800 You know we talked to a lawyer and he said unless he was a fake 950 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:05,400 agency there's no way she can you know attack you on this. 951 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,960 It's like it's final. So yeah, so the the, the post 952 00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,600 adoption contract is just saying everything is going to happen 953 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:19,160 for 12 years by the way because some yeah, it's 12 years. 954 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:25,480 So after 12 years it's going to be although you know decision if 955 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:27,480 she wants to stay in contact with her mum or. 956 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,640 But I mean by that age anyway she would be old enough to go 957 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,480 online herself you know and log in and talk to her if she wants 958 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,520 to. So we won't really have to know 959 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,080 to to do anything, but it's up to 12 years, yeah. 960 00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:41,240 So. That even. 961 00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:46,480 For me. Hearing that, I would really 962 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,520 tell her as much truth as you can about the birth mother so 963 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,280 that at that point she can make a informed decision. 964 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,720 You know, 'cause if she doesn't know some of these things going 965 00:49:55,720 --> 00:50:00,680 on, you know she may making an informed decision and decide to 966 00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,760 kind of jump in there. What would you how would you 967 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,600 feel if she decided to have a close relationship with her 968 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,840 birth mother, even though she was kind of around I? 969 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:12,640 Hope she will. I hope she will. 970 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,400 I hope she will. I want her to be close to it's 971 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:16,800 it's her mom. She gave her life. 972 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,920 You know I'm. I'm nothing that there's. 973 00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,400 I'm telling you there's no competition because I'm. 974 00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:23,880 I'm the one raising her. I see her every day. 975 00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,240 I, you know, I put her to bed every every night. 976 00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,000 There's no competition For me it's more love. 977 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:34,800 But from what I just I I saw until now, I think she will 978 00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:38,240 realize very fast that there's some issue because some funk. 979 00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:41,640 One we had issue with, she was reading a book and the book had, 980 00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:46,360 you know, the colour of the of the Oh my God of the word in 981 00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:50,160 French, not in English. You know when they had? 982 00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,080 All those when it reigns Rainbow. 983 00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,520 Oh my God, Rainbow. So the colour. 984 00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:58,000 Was about the book was about a Unicorn and you know, the 985 00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,800 rainbow colours and stuff. And the birth mother freaked out 986 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,080 because she thought it was about HGBT stuff. 987 00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,200 Oh gosh. Yes, and we had a big. 988 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,320 Fight on the phone because she's like, you need to get rid of 989 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:09,760 that book. I don't want my daughter to see 990 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,920 that. And she think because, you know, 991 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,440 we're immigrant or whatever, we don't know what's going on in in 992 00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:20,720 in in America with maybe HGBT pushing the agenda to kids. 993 00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,600 She's like, you don't know what's going on in this country. 994 00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:24,520 You know, they're trying to do that and with these kind of 995 00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,640 books. And my husband was like, listen, 996 00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,920 it's about a Unicorn. Yeah. 997 00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:30,400 And like. You're going to be able to 998 00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:32,800 shield her from that anyway, out in the world. 999 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,640 And that's exactly. What you know, he said. 1000 00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,520 You know, we have friends from all over and from. 1001 00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:43,120 They're not all Christian, by the way, so we won't be able to 1002 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,400 shield her from the world. She's going to see everything, 1003 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,120 you know, in the world. So, So I think my daughter and 1004 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,360 our daughter is going to, if she continues in that, you know, in 1005 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:55,680 that route, she will see quickly, you know, when she's 1006 00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:57,960 online without that there's something, something's off. 1007 00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,880 So she might make her own decision, like, you know, I 1008 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,840 don't know if I want to talk to her that often or yeah. 1009 00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,720 By the time she's. 77867 you know you already, you can 1010 00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:09,760 already realize, you know, if you want to talk to the lady or 1011 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,560 not. Yeah, yeah, like I said. 1012 00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,440 You're just going to have to be there for her to experience her 1013 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:19,880 birth mother and just be there for her to help her through any 1014 00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,000 emotions and feelings that she's gonna feel about how she's 1015 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,280 processing all of that, you know? 1016 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,200 So I have a question for you, 'cause I, you know, in the 1017 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:34,920 adoptee circles, I hear a lot about, you know, profit 1018 00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,320 adoptions and, you know, people, the adoptees are like, they're 1019 00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:42,280 selling babies. And I've heard, I've heard that 1020 00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:46,400 certain babies have higher price tags, so, you know, it could be 1021 00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,720 due to their race or some genetic factors. 1022 00:52:48,720 --> 00:52:51,880 That why they might go for a higher 'cause they're more in 1023 00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,760 demand, you know? Have you heard about? 1024 00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,000 That do you, did you experience that at all Like I'm just 1025 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,280 curious what you know and then what is the average cost? 1026 00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,840 You said 20,000 that I've heard, I've heard up to 70,000. 1027 00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:06,920 I don't know. I mean, this is just hearsay. 1028 00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:10,520 So 20. 1000 is the price of the agency, the what they asked for, 1029 00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:12,960 the match and everything and after you have all those things 1030 00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,640 around it. So for us, it cost us at least 1031 00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,840 50,000. Yeah. 1032 00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,640 Because you have to pay for the when he goes to know to sign the 1033 00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:25,440 paperwork to the California board or whatever, then you have 1034 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,040 to sign for the doctor. Then you have to sign for a lot 1035 00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:29,600 of stuff. Oh and also you have to take 1036 00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,280 care of the birth model. You know you have to take care 1037 00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,200 of her for the the month when they so they try to introduce 1038 00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,400 you to the birth model. Not too early, not like like 5 1039 00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,320 months. So they introduced us to for us. 1040 00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,320 Our birth mother was introduced when she was seven months, so we 1041 00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:45,160 had to take care of her for two months because she was living in 1042 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,080 a motel. And So what does? 1043 00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,560 That mean exactly taking care of her. 1044 00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,760 So she was kind of. Homeless, so we paid for we. 1045 00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:54,800 She was in a motel where she had to move every week. 1046 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,480 She couldn't stay more than a week in a hotel. 1047 00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,960 And I'm like, no. So we paid like a Airbnb for her 1048 00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:02,560 for two months. Then you have to pay herself a 1049 00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,640 food maybe phone stuff like that. 1050 00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:09,480 You know, so you give the so the agency, they have flat fees for 1051 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,040 everything. So you don't pay her because of 1052 00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:13,960 course it would be like buying a baby, right. 1053 00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,760 So everything is regulated. There's when you go on the 1054 00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:20,440 website, the agency, they will tell you this is for the rent. 1055 00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,320 You know how much you can, I mean it's up to you for the 1056 00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,680 rent, of course, how much you can you can put for the rent. 1057 00:54:25,720 --> 00:54:30,240 This is what we give her for food and stuff like that and you 1058 00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:33,800 just pay through the agency and they give her you know gift card 1059 00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:36,240 and stuff like that and this way she can pay. 1060 00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:39,720 You can pay also for Uber taxi for her to go to the hospital 1061 00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:42,840 and stuff like that. We were lucky that she was 1062 00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,640 covered by California, the health for the healthcare. 1063 00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:48,920 So we don't have to pay anything for healthcare, but I think some 1064 00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:51,480 states you have to pay also you know for for her when she goes 1065 00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:53,320 to the doctor for delivery, stuff like that. 1066 00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:57,520 It can, It can do the, the, the bill can go very, very high, 1067 00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:59,200 that's for sure. Definitely. 1068 00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:02,160 So you probably don't even know how high it can go in the 1069 00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:03,800 beginning. I mean, you don't know what 1070 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:07,680 she's going to need or whatever. I mean, I mean, yeah, it. 1071 00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,880 Can go very, very high. I mean there is another way also 1072 00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,120 to know to you can adopt, you know through foster care and 1073 00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:15,760 it's free. I mean, if people, you know, if 1074 00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,400 you want this kind of money. And like I I told you, if it 1075 00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:21,280 wasn't covered by my husband job, we'd have never done that 1076 00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:23,360 because we don't inform this. Yeah. 1077 00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:25,720 They were very lucky that my husband had this kind of 1078 00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:26,640 benefit. He checked before. 1079 00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:29,400 He's like, oh, let me see that this benefit he's like, oh, this 1080 00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:31,280 is how much they gave us. I'm like, OK, perfect. 1081 00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,560 But as far as? You experienced or saw there 1082 00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:37,840 wasn't like, you know, 'cause I've heard you know, white 1083 00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:42,640 babies go for more money than, you know, colored babies and all 1084 00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,720 this stuff. Have you heard that or seen that 1085 00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:46,120 at all? So not. 1086 00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,600 With the agency. With the agency, they told us of 1087 00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,720 course, White baby, they don't stick it on the market because 1088 00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:54,040 most of the parents are white. And of course they want a baby 1089 00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:55,880 that will look like them, like like them. 1090 00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:58,240 There's a lot of competition for white baby. 1091 00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,960 And they say, you know, if you're a white couple or in a 1092 00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,240 way there was also a single mother, you know, gay couple, 1093 00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:08,960 whatever they say, you might try to be open to every race. 1094 00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:11,120 And I think that's why we will also match very quickly. 1095 00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,960 First, we had not a lot of competition, the only black 1096 00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,680 family there and we were open to any race. 1097 00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:21,120 I didn't mind if the baby was Indian, Asian, you know, Pacific 1098 00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:22,640 Island, whatever. We didn't care. 1099 00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:24,720 So I think that's so much very quickly. 1100 00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:30,520 And the thing was, she told us also especially in California, 1101 00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,960 she, she said there's not a lot of Asian baby, not a lot of 1102 00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:37,040 Indian baby because this kind of community, they help each other. 1103 00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,960 And if one of if somebody, if a woman is pregnant usually you 1104 00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,320 know the mum would take care of the aunt you know the they come 1105 00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,280 together. So she said the the most of the 1106 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:52,200 kids are are placed actually are mixed race baby because I mean 1107 00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:55,280 you're like Oh no we don't want you know a black a Mexican or 1108 00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:59,960 whatever so you have to be open. So I wouldn't say that on if you 1109 00:56:59,960 --> 00:57:03,920 go through a a a legit agency there's no rate for white baby 1110 00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:06,320 or whatever. You might wait more if you want 1111 00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:12,040 somebody to look like you. But in at the same time I was 1112 00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,760 doing something else that is what you because I'm like oh 1113 00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,360 that's taking a long time And I heard about those. 1114 00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:22,240 What do you call them? It's not mediator. 1115 00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:27,080 It's like somebody who works for they're not lawyers but they 1116 00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:31,000 will find pregnant lady for you. We call them baby. 1117 00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:35,080 Brokers, yeah, yeah, yeah. The adoption, the adoptee's call 1118 00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:38,280 them baby brokers, yeah. There's another way. 1119 00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,560 I mean the official, you know that I'm sure there is an. 1120 00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,000 Yes, yes. So I worked with that woman for 1121 00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,040 like 3 months because after three months I was we were 1122 00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:50,240 match. But so she has the website and 1123 00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:53,080 you have all the babies there with all the race and 1124 00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,560 everything, all the story of the birth mother. 1125 00:57:56,080 --> 00:58:01,760 And to be to be like match you have to apply through the link 1126 00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:06,520 and you have to pay like maybe like $20.00 or $50 just to apply 1127 00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:11,560 to be presented and then after it's like it's very expensive, 1128 00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:15,120 yeah. There's actually pages on 1129 00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,560 Facebook and it I mean it it they all seem like a scam. 1130 00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,080 People are selling their babies on Facebook and there's actually 1131 00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:26,720 people, yes, there's sites on there and I I think it's a scam. 1132 00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:30,200 Obviously there's there's people that are so desperate for a baby 1133 00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:34,120 that they are on there saying I want your baby, contact me, DM 1134 00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,040 me. You know, it's horrible. 1135 00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,960 It is horrible. But yeah, people are just so 1136 00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:41,200 desperate that they'll they'll fall for that stuff. 1137 00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:42,440 You know, Facebook should remove that. 1138 00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:44,680 Page should remove that. That's yeah, we. 1139 00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:47,800 The adoptives find those pages and we're like, report it. 1140 00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,440 You know, we tell each other to report those pages because it's 1141 00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:52,400 yeah, it's it's got to be a scam. 1142 00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,720 There's no way you can't be selling your babies on Facebook. 1143 00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,800 No, you can't, but people. Are so desperate that they'll 1144 00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:59,960 just, they'll send them money, you know, they'll send some 1145 00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:01,280 money. Oh my God. 1146 00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:02,520 But. You can. 1147 00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:06,000 You can feel kind of away, you know, after you go, you went 1148 00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,920 through this agency and you spend that much money, you can 1149 00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,680 be like, yeah, I bought a baby because it's so expensive. 1150 00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:13,600 You can be like, you know, you, you bought a baby. 1151 00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,240 But in another way, I'm thinking, you know, and I helped 1152 00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:18,360 someone because she was not good. 1153 00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:19,800 When I met her, she was not good. 1154 00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:22,360 She wasn't really, you know, heavy. 1155 00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:24,600 She had a little belly. She was all skinny. 1156 00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:26,160 I don't think she was eating right. 1157 00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:28,440 You know, we went to a nice restaurant, you know, to a good 1158 00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,360 restaurant. We we have lunch. 1159 00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,080 I said, you know, do you want to take your stuff? 1160 00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:34,960 You know, like pack your pack your leftovers and everything. 1161 00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:36,840 She's like, Oh yeah, I'm going to also bring some for my 1162 00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:38,120 boyfriend. I don't think they were eating 1163 00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:41,680 right, you know, living in a motel and stuff like that. 1164 00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:43,320 And I'm like, no, we're going to put you, you know, somewhere 1165 00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:45,160 comfortable when you can relax and sleep. 1166 00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:47,480 Because she was saying, you know, I have to wake up every 1167 00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:50,840 day because they they come in the in the room to clean and I 1168 00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:55,160 cannot sleep. So in my mind, I was like, OK, I 1169 00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:58,280 know I we pay all those, you know, fees for the agency. 1170 00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,120 But he didn't go. The fees didn't go to her. 1171 01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:01,800 He said. Like we paid her, right? 1172 01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:06,120 Yeah. So what do you think about the 1173 01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:09,960 adoption agency as a whole? Like do you see any areas that 1174 01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,520 need improvement? I don't understand why it's too 1175 01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:17,040 expensive, You understand? You know, where's all the money 1176 01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:18,840 going? I mean, yeah, they hope should 1177 01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:19,840 be for. For. 1178 01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,440 Profit. You know, none of these adoption 1179 01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,520 agencies should be for profit. Like it? 1180 01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,160 I think it's me. I guess I'm. 1181 01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:29,360 I guess they need to pay the employee because there's a lot 1182 01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,360 of people working there, you know, and trying to match you 1183 01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:35,000 with us, with someone. Also, it needs to be more 1184 01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:39,000 transparent about the matching because I didn't know if you 1185 01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,840 were getting presented or not. And after six months I'm like, 1186 01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:44,920 how come we don't even get matched with one baby? 1187 01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,040 And she's like, no, actually your, your profile is being 1188 01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,520 visited a lot. And she said we actually 1189 01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:52,480 presented you like 19 times, blah blah, blah. 1190 01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:55,760 I'm like I didn't know you you you never told us. 1191 01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:59,040 You know I I thought nothing was happening you know backstage. 1192 01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:02,960 So can you be more transparent about that? 1193 01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:07,320 You know I didn't really know. So yeah, more transparency about 1194 01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:11,480 the matching maybe. I don't know why the this price 1195 01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:18,280 also it's like $5000 the marketing, but it takes from. 1196 01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:21,160 The OR three three. Thousand, I don't remember. 1197 01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:24,440 It was so much money. So there was some prices. 1198 01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:30,240 I'm like wow, we need 5K to to. I think it was the matching 1199 01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:33,640 thing for them because you could register with them saying you 1200 01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:37,320 you want to adopt A baby but be matched by something some like 1201 01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,440 somebody outside. And then so if you match with 1202 01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,880 one of those baby broker for instance, so the agency doesn't 1203 01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:46,920 match you, you pay the baby broker which is cheaper than the 1204 01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,000 agency actually. And then when you match, the 1205 01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:51,880 agencies do doing all the paperwork. 1206 01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:53,040 That's what you're paying them for. 1207 01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:54,880 They are the ones all the paperwork. 1208 01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:57,720 So but we're like now I'm not gonna do that. 1209 01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:02,480 So we pay them for the match and I think that was 5K for like 3 1210 01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:04,640 years something like that. It's but after three years if 1211 01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:06,000 you're not much you have to repay again. 1212 01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:09,680 So I Oh my. Gosh, Oh my gosh. 1213 01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:10,920 And I'm telling. You There's some people in 1214 01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:12,160 there. When I check on the website, 1215 01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,760 sometimes they've been there for more than two years, yeah. 1216 01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:20,200 So, so as an adoptive parent, what advice would you give those 1217 01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:21,960 that are thinking about adopting? 1218 01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:27,120 Being be very patient because it can take a long time. 1219 01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:32,000 Be very patient be open to to a baby. 1220 01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:35,080 Not going to look like you because if you really want, I 1221 01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:37,640 want or I want to. First of all you cannot choose a 1222 01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:41,080 gender by the way it's not like placing an order. 1223 01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:44,480 So yeah, what if the baby's? Born and you look at the baby 1224 01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,880 and you're like, this isn't what I want. 1225 01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:48,400 You know you can't do that. Well, too bad. 1226 01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:54,600 Well, I think as you, I mean, some, I don't think it happened, 1227 01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:58,160 but I think you can change your mind as a adoptive parent. 1228 01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:00,240 You can say, you know, Oh no, we're not ready or whatever. 1229 01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:03,280 But it doesn't look good if you do that, you know? 1230 01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:05,520 Yeah. I don't think anybody did. 1231 01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:08,000 That you know, a baby is a baby. You know, how can you go there 1232 01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:11,320 and say I don't want that baby? No, you know you're open to our 1233 01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:12,920 baby are so cute. I've heard of it. 1234 01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:14,200 Happening. Really. 1235 01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:16,200 Yeah. People say no, we don't. 1236 01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:17,160 Want it? Uh huh. 1237 01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:19,960 Yeah. Because they had red hair and 1238 01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:21,880 they were like, oh we don't want a red headed baby. 1239 01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:25,520 Yeah. We'll wait for the next one. 1240 01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:27,360 We'll wait for the next one. Well, you're not. 1241 01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:30,320 You're not ready to be parents. If that's so important for you 1242 01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:31,160 that the baby has ready. Yeah. 1243 01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:33,880 You shouldn't even be parent. It's not what it's about. 1244 01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:39,440 So whatever. Oh, well, I hope they waited 1245 01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:41,760 like five more years to. I know, right? 1246 01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:45,880 I know, yes. I don't remember anything else, 1247 01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:47,920 anything. Else you want to tell parents 1248 01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:50,640 that are thinking about adopting, yeah? 1249 01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:54,480 Yeah, be patient. Continue to live your life. 1250 01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:57,200 Don't think about it because I think the more you think about 1251 01:03:57,200 --> 01:03:58,400 it, the less it's going to happen. 1252 01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:00,400 Continue your life like you know, you know it's going to 1253 01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:01,880 happen. Just live your life, go on 1254 01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:03,680 vacation, you know, do your stuff. 1255 01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:09,520 Be patient. Maybe try your sort of route. 1256 01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:12,520 I mean first, first. We also thought to do first 1257 01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:15,560 start to adopt. You know it's expensive to do 1258 01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:18,800 private adoption. You need to learn about other, 1259 01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:21,760 there's other routes you can do. First start to adopt when after 1260 01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:25,000 a year you can adopt the the, the, the, the child. 1261 01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,720 It doesn't have to be a baby, could be one or two years old 1262 01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:31,640 and after a year the the the mum is not usually. 1263 01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:33,680 Sometimes they don't show up because they have issue. 1264 01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:37,360 You can apply and adopt, adopt the child and that's free. 1265 01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,520 You don't have to pay for it. So. 1266 01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:43,440 You know there's other route than private adoption. 1267 01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:48,360 Be careful when you see sign also the the Packer I mean the 1268 01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:52,560 the post adoption contract try to see if you're comfortable 1269 01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:57,400 with it and because the benefits of course the the birth mother 1270 01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:01,440 but it is also to benefit the child and and you need to be 1271 01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:05,920 comfortable with it also because for us right now it's like every 1272 01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,760 month we think every time we think oh OK it's a new month 1273 01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:11,960 we're going to have to what is going to happen now is she going 1274 01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,520 to be on right mind or not you know if we are maybe two months. 1275 01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:18,160 That's what we now. We're doing once. 1276 01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:20,640 My husband wants me this way. One of us has two months, one 1277 01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:22,000 month is not taking care of this. 1278 01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:25,720 He's not dealing with this, you know, so hoping that the birth 1279 01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:29,280 mother can find some support somewhere, because I think 1280 01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:31,840 that's one of the most horrible things that can happen to women 1281 01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:36,080 to place a child. There's no way a woman, no woman 1282 01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:37,680 want that. If you have a baby, you want. 1283 01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:40,960 If you kept the baby, it's because you know you want it. 1284 01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:44,520 And when he's born. You know, you don't want to give 1285 01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:50,360 it away. So I was, I was really hoping 1286 01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:52,640 she would get some support, you know, for that. 1287 01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:54,240 Yeah, I think she. Needs it. 1288 01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:58,120 Sounds like it. So in closing, what would you 1289 01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:00,880 like struggling adoptive parents to know? 1290 01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:04,960 Maybe that they're struggling with maybe the birth mother or 1291 01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:06,720 just raising their adoptive child? 1292 01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:08,200 What would you like them to know? 1293 01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:12,080 You guys are not alone. I think there's a lot of us, you 1294 01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:14,280 know, out there. And actually, you know when you 1295 01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,760 were asking me at the beginning if I was part of the community, 1296 01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:21,360 I was, I was going to look around to see if there was no 1297 01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:25,360 other parents like me, adoptive parents who have issue, you 1298 01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:28,560 know, with the the their birth mother and see, you know, what 1299 01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:30,120 did you do guys, You know what? What did you do? 1300 01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:35,680 Did you talk to a mediator? Did moderator, did you contact a 1301 01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:37,800 lawyer? You know what's going on because 1302 01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:41,960 sometime I think that we need a break and sometime I think, you 1303 01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:43,600 know, it might even be better for her. 1304 01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:46,280 Maybe she can talk to her when when she can respond to her, 1305 01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:49,320 when I'll try and be old enough to respond to her because right 1306 01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:54,440 now it's kind of difficult. So yeah, just know, yeah, you're 1307 01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:57,640 not alone. There's a lot of of us out there 1308 01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:00,640 struggling a little bit, but it's all worth it. 1309 01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:02,600 It's all worth it. I'm I'm happy everyday when I 1310 01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:03,640 see her. I'm happy everyday. 1311 01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:05,960 So she's really proud of her family. 1312 01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,560 Yeah, if you. Or there is an adoptive parent 1313 01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:14,920 out there that is struggling. Beth Syverson has a lot of help 1314 01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:17,680 for you guys. It's she has a podcast as well, 1315 01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:22,200 unraveling adoption. And she's an adoptive parent who 1316 01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:26,400 has struggled a lot with her child and she does coaching now 1317 01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:28,680 and has all kinds of resources and pages. 1318 01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:32,760 So if you are an adoptive parent out there, I'll put the links in 1319 01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:37,160 the show notes for Beth. But Veronik, tell us about your 1320 01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:38,920 podcast and where we can find you. 1321 01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:42,720 Yes. So I have a podcast, of course a 1322 01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:46,040 podcast with my friend Sylvia. So I'm from the French 1323 01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:49,280 Caribbean, she's from Brazil and we have a podcast about 1324 01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:54,600 motherhood spirituality and so we it's called High Vibes and a 1325 01:07:54,600 --> 01:08:00,640 mic and we are on any platform. You where you podcast from Apple 1326 01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:05,520 podcast to Spotify, iHeartRadio. You can find us and you can see 1327 01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:08,280 the extract of our show. We put some clips on Instagram. 1328 01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:11,480 You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook and it's called A 1329 01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:15,400 High Vibes and a Mic. And all those links will be in 1330 01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:18,720 the show notes if you want to connect with Veronique and her 1331 01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:21,600 podcast. But thank you so much for coming 1332 01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:23,680 on today, Veronique, Like I said, I don't get a lot of 1333 01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:26,080 adoptive parents and so I had a ton of questions for you. 1334 01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:32,160 So thank you for educating us on the adoptive parent view today. 1335 01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:33,279 Thank you. It was. 1336 01:08:33,319 --> 01:08:34,680 Fun Thank you very much for having me. 1337 01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:37,240 Thank you. I want to. 1338 01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:40,560 Thank Veronique again for being just so open and honest with her 1339 01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,319 story today. And I want to thank you for 1340 01:08:43,319 --> 01:08:46,840 listening all the way through to the end of this podcast and I 1341 01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:48,720 hope you got something out of it. 1342 01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:50,200 I hope you learned something new. 1343 01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:53,680 I hope that there were some seeds planted for you to think 1344 01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:58,960 about. And you know, some things that 1345 01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:06,640 made me think were I don't know how I would handle infertility 1346 01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:08,880 issues. What I have thought. 1347 01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,319 About adopting, I don't know. I not. 1348 01:09:11,399 --> 01:09:16,720 I wasn't put in that position. I don't know what I would feel 1349 01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:19,960 about having an open adoption with the birth mother, even if 1350 01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:22,560 it was more beneficial to my child. 1351 01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:25,640 I don't know if I would be OK with that. 1352 01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:31,120 So just trying to see things through another person's eyes 1353 01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:35,880 and their perspective is what I was trying to do today. 1354 01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:39,720 And I definitely am thinking about a few of the things that 1355 01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:43,040 she said. And you know, I may not agree 1356 01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:46,439 with everything that she said. And I'm sure maybe I said a 1357 01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:49,240 couple of things that maybe she didn't agree with either. 1358 01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:51,560 But. Educating. 1359 01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:55,120 Ourselves again, educating ourselves so that we can have an 1360 01:09:55,120 --> 01:10:01,240 informed belief around what we are feeling and saying to others 1361 01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:05,240 is huge. So I hope you have got some food 1362 01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:09,880 for thought today and I want to thank Veronique for again being 1363 01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:13,000 so open and honest as an adoptive parent, being brave and 1364 01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:17,600 coming on in an Adoptee podcast. You never know what we're going 1365 01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:22,200 to say or do, so thank you for being brave and coming on today. 1366 01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:27,560 If you are an adoptive parent and struggling with your 1367 01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:31,080 adoptive child, or just have some questions about being an 1368 01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:34,880 adoptive parent, the links are in the show notes to Beth 1369 01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:38,960 Cyverson. She is a great resource for all 1370 01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:44,440 kinds of things and she also has a podcast Unraveling Adoption, 1371 01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:47,120 so all those links are in the show notes if you need help. 1372 01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:50,160 If you're an adoptee and need help, get in contact with me. 1373 01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:55,160 Mind your own karma@gmail.com. I have 1001 resources for you, 1374 01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:57,480 including myself. I do somatic mindful guided 1375 01:10:57,480 --> 01:11:00,680 imagery, so if you want to know more about that, you can go to 1376 01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,840 my website somatichealingjourneys.com. 1377 01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:07,600 If you want to be on the podcast, get in touch with me. 1378 01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:10,520 Let's get your story on the podcast. 1379 01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:14,720 As always, take what you need and leave what you don't. 1380 01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:18,600 And always remember to mind your own karma. 1381 01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:19,880 I'll see you next time.