Hey there, it's Melissa Brunetti and welcome to the Mind Your Own
Karma podcast. Hey there, karma crew.
Thanks for joining me for this episode of Mind Your Own Karma,
The Adoption Chronicles. Today.
I have Veronique Kinter on the show today.
She is an adoptive parent, and if you are an adoptee listening,
before you reach for the pause button on your computer or
listening device, I would like you just to hold on for a
minute. And I would like to plant just
maybe a couple of seeds in your head to entice you to listen to
this episode. You know, in adoptee circles, we
know there needs to be reform in the adoption agency arena.
There's so many things that we feel is wrong with it, and some
of us feel like adoption shouldn't even be legal, that it
should be abolished. But in my eyes, I don't see that
happening anytime soon. So what can we do to make the
changes that we want to see in the adoption world?
And how can we do that? How can we make those changes?
And for me, I feel like education is really the key to
where change can begin and how can we make that change if we
don't know what changes need to be made and how do we find out
what changes need to be made. I have found that listening to
not only adoptee stories but birth parent and adoptive parent
stories have educated me so much in what I personally feel like a
needs to change. You know, we've all been told
some kind of story. Adoptees have been told we're
lucky and we've been chosen. And you know, had that pounded
into our heads and then birth parents have been told you're
doing the right thing for your child and adoptive parents,
you're gaining a family and you're helping a child in need
gain a family as well. And so it's a win win scenario.
But are we being told the truth? And how do we know what the
truth is if we don't listen to adoptive parent, birth parent
and adoptee stories? So that is why I've opened up
this podcast to an adoptive parent.
I bombarded Veronique with 1000 questions and you know, I'm
looking at it as an adoptee. She's looking at it as an
adoptive parent and I hope that we both learn from each other.
I know I learned from Veronique, so let me tell you a little bit
more about Veronique. Veronique is an adoptive mother
of a baby girl through an open adoption that happened in 20/21.
She is originally from the French Caribbean but was born
and grew up in France. She is married and is a mother
of two lovely girls. 1 Biological 1 Adoptive She moved
to the United States in 2003 and has been living in California
for 20 years. She worked in the tech industry
for years but now wants to spend more time with her family,
raising her girls and supporting her husband.
She is a Co host on the podcast High Vibes and a mic with her
friend Sylvia where they talk about parenting and
spirituality. She says that being an adoptive
parent has been a dream come true for her family.
After trying for years to have a second child, here is my
interview with Veronique. So we are welcoming Veronique to
the show today. Hi, Veronique.
Hello Melissa. Thank you for inviting me.
Yeah. So I don't get a lot of adoptive
parents on the show. So I wanna thank you so much for
volunteering on coming on, 'cause I have 1000 questions to
ask you. And I don't know, we kind of
discussed earlier, I don't know how much time you spend on the
adoption platforms or social media spaces, but the adoptive
parent can kind of be the bad guy or the one getting beat up a
lot or talked about a lot in those spaces.
So that's partly why I want to bring adoptive parents on the
show, because I want to educate people on your perspective.
And so that's why I'm I'm opening up the podcast this
season to adoptive parents as well, because we can't see the
changes that we want to make if we don't get the whole story.
And I feel like that's a big piece of the story.
So you know, I'm coming it from a adoptee lens and you're coming
from the adoptive parent lens. And I'm here to learn from you.
And hopefully, you know, if you feel like you want to ask me a
couple questions, I'm totally open to that as well.
Feel free to ask me anything that comes up.
So let's just start and tell me what you feel comfortable about
talking about why you decided to adopt.
Sure. So it has always been very
difficult for me to get pregnant.
I met my husband in my 30s, mid 30s, so we didn't waste any
time, but it was very difficult, a lot of miscarriages.
Then finally I got my daughter when I was 39 and after.
Now you had that one's biological.
Biological. Yeah.
My first one. Sorry.
My first order. Yeah, biological.
When I was 39. And then after that we tried.
I no, I mean, we tried, you know, hormones and other stuff.
And we were about to do IVF. And I was like, you know, I
can't, I can't put my body through that again.
It's it's too much. So I told my husband, I don't
want to do that. She's going to be an only child.
And that's it. And I don't know, one day we
were on vacation and I saw my daughter, She was playing alone
in the pool. And I had like, an opinion.
I'm like, oh, no, she can't be alone.
And my husband told me about, He's the one actually who told
me about adoption before. And I was like, oh, I don't
know. I don't know.
And I don't know. I had like, an image, mental
image in my, you know, in my mind.
And I'm like, OK, yeah, let's do this.
And so this is, you know, the day we decided, OK let's go, you
know, let's check what you know if we can do adoption, you know
how long it takes and now we can get there.
It was a long, it was kind of a long journey, but also very
short when I checked. Now we know other people, other
adoptive parent. We are very lucky.
I think we got, we were matched with a birth mother very, very
quickly, but I think it was just at the right time.
Everything happened when you talked.
About how that match happens, how did that?
How did that work for you? So I did some research online to
to find a legit you know adoptive agency a license but I
live in California license but California and everything and
went through actually my husband job because they had referral
and also they will help and got they have to pay the the fee of
the agency because people need to know it's really really
expensive. It can go up to $20,000.
So thank God this job a lot of company in the Bay Area they
cover they can give that as a benefit in your benefit and we
were lucky he had that. I think without that we haven't
done it anyway it was really really expensive.
So the agency when we started it was the beginning of beginning
of COVID. So usually what they do, they do
seminar, you go to the agency do seminar and they give you all
the information you need as a as a adoptive parent and what you
can expect. So we did 3 seminar online
because it was COVID, 3 seminar online.
Each seminar was like 2 hours. And the thing I really like is
during the seminar they had birth mother that came to to
talk to us would ask them any question we wanted.
They were really open. One was sorry a young girl.
I mean she was she had a baby when she was really young.
So we had that side of the story of somebody very young.
Can I take care of her baby and realized I'm gonna be able to do
this alone. And she was she had an open
adoption And the other one she had some mental issue I think
bipolar or something like that. So she she realized and the the
the man who she had the baby with was had also like even more
mental issues. So she's like, yeah, there's no
way I can do that. And she did a son of an
adoption. So I was very happy to see those
two side and the way they explain, you know how it worked
and I was as a adoptive parent, you know and I already have a
daughter. I was with you a friend.
Oh my God, I I want, am I going to to compete with another woman
to be a mom because you have you don't want to compete.
You don't have the baby to have two mums, right.
And something the one of the lady said, she said, oh, by by
the way, don't. I mean that's her experience.
Maybe it's not the the same for everybody.
But she was saying for her, she doesn't feel like she's really
the mum to, even though she see her child almost every week
because she is very close to a child, but she's she's an artist
so she travels a lot. I mean she doesn't have, you
know, the time to really take care of a child.
And she said that for her, it's more that she's the auntie now
after a while and the child knows she's the birth mother.
And he said to his friend, you know, after mum and he looks
like he was really. So she she, she removed that
part of stress for me. I'm like, OK, so maybe we can do
this. And also my background, I was
raised, my mum had me as a teen or so, So she had a lot of help
from my grandmother, from another woman was taking care of
the kids. So like you say, you know, we
say text her village. So I was raised by like 3
different women and there was no competition.
There was, it wasn't almost like more love and more love.
And I was really, I think I'm OK.
So I'm thinking, you know, oh, if we do open adoption, that
child is going to be very loved by us, by our family.
But she's also going to have a birth mother.
She will know. She will know where she come
from. Because I know it's really hard
when you don't know where you come from.
I don't know my dad. And I said, Are you sure about
it? Because there's one side of
myself and I'm I'm like you know who am I.
So I want it. I want you know the adopt the
the baby I will going to adopt to know exactly where she's
from. So we're like OK let's do this
let's I think it's a good it's a good way for us to have a baby
so. So what was the process 'cause I
think you had to make a profile and it was like the birth mother
chose you guys, I think. Yeah.
So it's like dating. So you have to he felt like he
was dating. So you have to do a whole
profile. So they do they they direct you
to another agency of course. Who's going to do that for you?
For some somebody, something outside of their their agency.
It's like a marketing company that's that's what they do and
they they do a very, very good job.
So you have and it takes a long time because you have to write
everything about yourself, everything about you know your
kid. If you have a dog picture of
your house you know and it looks very very nice.
They have the profiles on paper and also online because this way
they can just give it you know to to birth mother when they at
the hospital if they want they say you know I don't want to
live with the baby so they have a lot of flyer they can pass you
know pass along to the birth mothers and of course they can
check also online if somebody's she knows maybe she's six months
and she's like I know and I'm I won't be able to do this she can
go online and check all the profiles all profile profiles
are available online So yeah we did we did that we did a profile
so. Now you're in competition with a
bunch of other families that are, like, looking.
For babies? Actually, not really.
You know why? Because I'm going to do
something that's very funny. We are the only black family in
there and that was a big advantage actually.
I think that's why he went very fast for us because we're a
black family. We also really put in our
profile that we were Christian, you know, going to church and
everything. And the demographic, they just
told us, the demographic of the kids being a place for adoption.
Most of them are black Latinos and mixed race.
So in my hair I was never really worried.
I'm like OK if there's most of them are black.
In my mind the woman is going to you know place a a kid with us
might be, she might be also black or Latino mixed race or
whatever. And we're the only family there.
And I think that's why this way went very fast with us.
But the joke was on me anyway, because the the birth model
chose us was white, so. Really.
Oh, wow. But the dad of the baby is
black. How how long did it take you
guys to get picked? So we're in the middle.
We had like different little scare.
So we're in the middle of doing the paperwork and we weren't
even done doing the paperwork like for three months and we had
an e-mail saying hey we might we might have a match for you and
we're like we're not even done doing the profile and then I
care. But I think she's she's a teen
and she's looking for some for somebody like you.
So she sent us we just wrote her letters but we didn't we didn't
get paid for picked for that one.
We're like OK, you know we're not really ready then we are
done with everything. Everything was ready and we are
going so it was during the pandemic.
So I said OK we're going to go see our family in France for the
whole month of July. Can you put a profile at in
August This way you know won't get much before And I I think
they found a match for something and they emailed me the day I
landed in France, I had an e-mail.
We have a match for you and she's in Arizona, something like
that. I'm like can't come back.
It's it's pandemic. You can even leave leave the
country. You know you have to stay in
your house for like 10 days and that was like a match.
And I'm like, Oh my God, this is so long time.
And I was like this is not happening again.
So we had to pass on that one and then after that it took nine
months. So we got match in March on our
spring break because we're again on vacation every time we go on.
Vacation. But this time we went in.
America. Yes, on vacation.
I think it's no one. You don't think about it because
I thought about it every day. Every day.
I was like, oh, this is going to be the day I'm going to see that
e-mail, that phone call, you know, and nothing.
And I'm like, OK, let's let's just relax and have a nice
vacation. We go to New Orleans for a week.
After three days, we'll send an e-mail.
We have a match for you. She doesn't even want to see any
profile. She saw you and she wants she
wants you, she wants to choose you.
So are you OK to receive a phone call and start talking with her?
We're like, yes, so we got match after nine months.
That is fast. Yeah, right.
What did the Do you know why the birth mother wanted to give up
her child? Oh yeah, in a nutshell.
So she got pregnant with somebody who wasn't her
boyfriend at the time. Then she went back with the
boyfriend, and the boyfriend was like, I don't want the baby and
I don't want to tell my family that you're pregnant with
another man's baby. So we won't tell anybody, but
you have to to take care of it. So she chose a boyfriend and she
was like, you know, I I want, I want to press up with the good
family with the same. She's really spiritual.
She's like, I want a, you know, a good family that will raise
her, you know, in the in the Christian faith and everything.
And she wanted a black family because she's, I think she was a
bit paranoid, you know, about race.
And she was like, if she's, if she's a race with the black
family, we would be able to teach her maybe to be careful
about, you know, racism or whatever.
She thought that if she plays her with the white family, they
won't be aware of this because otherwise miss race and she's
like, if she's with the black family, you're more aware of
what's going on in the world. So you'll be able to teach her,
you know, to be aware of what's going on around her.
I was like, OK, yeah, sure. I mean.
Is that something that you feel like you're gonna, you know,
your daughter someday might ask why her birth mother gave her up
And you know, hearing that, like you just said she chose her
boyfriend over her baby and had the feelings surrounding that
she'll have about that. How do you think you'll handle
that? I don't think I will say it like
that. I might not say it like that.
So maybe she's gonna watch that later, I don't know.
But I think we'll explain, you know that her mum at the time,
because I think I know her mum has also some mental issue.
She has. She has mental issue.
We realized that after a while and I think she was in her right
mind and she was really brainwashed by by by that man
because I think deep down she didn't want to give up the baby.
I don't think she really wanted to place her baby and if she
also she had issue with her family.
We don't later that her family offered to help her, her parents
or sister and she was in. I was talking on the phone with
her like every day for like for two months before she gave
birth. I was talking with her every day
for maybe two to three hours on the phone every day.
She was calling me all the time because she didn't need to talk.
And she was telling me, you know, my sister wants to take
care of the baby, but I'm not going to do that.
My parents, I don't. I don't know.
I don't, I don't trust them. So I think she was in a bad
place with her family at the time.
I think I, you know, at at the time when that happened, the
pressure with the boyfriend not really really being good
relation with relation with her parents.
The only thing she thought about or I'm going to place her in a
good family and she wanted a close adoption to protect
herself. She's like, I don't want to know
anything about her. I don't want her to contact me
because I'm going to live my life with my boyfriend.
We're going to have other children and I don't want her to
resent me that I placed her. I didn't keep her and I had
other kids with another man. So she wanted to protect herself
and she and she was like, I don't want her to know my last
name, anything. I don't want to have any
contact. That was at the beginning, and
then it changed. Then it changed.
What changed? What do you think changed?
Did you mean that you went from a close to an open adoption?
So what changed? She broke up with a boyfriend
because the boyfriend also had issues.
So they broke up. And when they broke up, she
realized, Oh, my God, what did I do?
She relaxed. What did I do?
I have, right, actually to see my daughter, which she does.
And we're completely open. We're like, yeah, sure.
No, let's do this. There's no problem.
So after six months, she comes back, you know, in our lives.
Give me a phone call. At the same time, I receive a
phone call and I receive an e-mail from the agency saying,
hey, you know, she's trying to contact you.
I'm like, oh, OK. I still have the same number.
And she calls me and she's like, OK, let's actually I want, I
would like to do an open, you know, adoption And because we
didn't sign any paperwork about close or because if it's a close
adoption, I mean she just disappear, right.
Nothing happened. And if it's open adoption, there
you have to sign paperwork. He has to be seen by the judge
and everything and everything is is clear and you have to respect
what's on the papers. So I'm like, OK, let's draw some
papers. No problem.
And I think, I mean, we couldn't know.
We didn't know at that time, you know, her state of mind.
But when she came back in her mind, she was going to get her,
her daughter back. I think she had the idea that
her daughter was in foster care. And I was like, OK, where did
she get that ID from? So I called the agency.
I'm like, you you. She knows what?
She's fine, right? She knows it's not foster care.
And the agency was like, yeah, she does.
She's like, they just was like before we sign anything with
birth mother, she's seen by us by a psychologist.
They talk with her. We explain to her like a lot of
time. We give her a lot of time also
to change her mind because when we went to to get her daughter
at the hospital she didn't sign any paper.
We were we were just not even guardian.
We were babysitters and the agency told us clearly careful
don't bring your family. This is not happy.
You know, it's happy for you, but the birth mother, you have
to, you know, be conscious that she's really sad and
everything's really sensitive. So they say, you know, be
sensitive about that and remember that you you are
babysitters for at least three weeks.
Because how? Is that change your mind?
You probably felt like you couldn't bond with the baby.
Like, are you afraid? To do Too bad because when I saw
her, that was it. When they when they rolled her
in a little, you know, crib and she had a little bow in a little
hat with a little bow. I was like OK, yeah, she, that's
my daughter. So I mean there was I knew you
know she could change her mind and yeah we were really scared
for like scared. We were very not, you know,
sleeping on our two ears for like a week because after a week
she's time. She took a week.
So they didn't, you know, Foster, the hospital signed the
paperwork. Now, you know, they gave out a
lot of time and they say when you when you you have three
weeks actually. So when you feel you, you want
to sign, you know, the paperwork, let us know.
And she called after a week and she said, OK, I'm ready.
And they met with a witness and they signed all the paperwork.
So I know everything was legit. But I realized after she had
some mental issue and I think she, yeah, she thinks she
thought, you know that I don't know, She made a story up in her
mind like you know, the the the baby was in the foster care and
she was trying to to go through the contract and everything to
see what she could she could do to get her baby back.
Oh wow, after the baby was born. Oh, six months after, yeah.
Oh, so OK. Yeah, when she came back in our
lives. When she came back in our lives
after six months. OK, so she it was an open
adoption, but you took her home after she signed.
Well, even before she signed, you had her.
But then she kind of disappeared for a while and came back.
She's appeared for six months. She's appeared for six months.
Yeah. After we left the hospital, we
thought it was a closed adoption, so everybody went
their way. She, she went back with the
boyfriend and everything. And after six months she came
back because he didn't work out for the boyfriend.
And she felt that she was free now to redo what she wanted to
do, which was to be in contact with the daughter she never
want, really wanted to take contact.
I think I can see it now. Yeah, So did she come see her
or? So from the contract we have a
monthly video call we do with her.
We send her also a monthly picture.
Every month we send picture and she can we have a visit face to
face. Once a year, once a year she
can, you know, we have to meet. But it was very difficult at the
beginning because first of all she's not really consistent.
Sometimes she doesn't show up, don't know why.
And then when she showed up, she said, oh, you know, you owe me
to visit. We're like, no, it doesn't work
like that. Oh gosh, yes.
Wait, I'm sorry. No, it doesn't work like that.
You cannot. We cannot do that.
Then we had for like 3 to four months, very bad almost.
I blocked off on my phone because she was getting very
aggressive. She was saying I'm only the
babysitter. I'm not.
I'm not her mum.
I didn't bore her. You know, the mum, I'm the mum.
I'm going to raise her. So she was really living in our
own, you know, own world. And I told my husband I cannot
deal with her anymore. This is because she's not
talking like this to my husband, by the way.
It's a completely different person.
It's only she has a point with me, of course, because I
represent, you know, her. Or her daughter.
So I. I know.
I'm just replacing her. Yeah.
I replacing, yeah. I know everything.
I know. I know what she's doing.
So we had like a lot of nasty phone calls and I think also she
was recording the phone calls. So we started recording the
phone call. So he was getting very nasty.
So we started to, I went back to the agency, they said OK, this
is not moderator, how do you call these people?
They tried to help facilitate. Moderator, OK.
Conversation. So we're like and this woman,
this moderator talked to her also when she had the baby to
help her go through the, you know, through the the pain.
She's also a psychologist and she so the birth mother didn't
want to continue because she she said that oh, I have my own
psychologist, but the moderator asked her but is is your
psychologist adoption specialist?
Yeah, because. This is what you need.
You need somebody who knows how to deal with adoption.
And we paid for everything. We paid for the session.
She was, she had like 5 sessions with a psychologist.
We prefer to be part of the group of birth mother and I
think that's what she was missing.
I think she needed to see, to be part of the community of that
mother and maybe you know, see, you know what is going on with
the other, you know, other ladies, you know in there.
She refused everything, of course.
So the mother writer, we try to do something with the mother,
she refused. Then we had to call a lawyer,
'cause we're like, what are all right there?
Because this is going too far. She's getting very, very.
She's really aggressive and she's very, very, Yeah.
It's not, it's not good for for the baby because every time we
talk on the phone at the end with the her crying because she
can feel the tension, yeah. That's not good for her and.
That's not what I wanted. I wanted the all love from all
of us. And I'm very.
I was really open, you know, for her to be part of this, yeah.
I mean, she's reacting from her trauma, but she's also refusing
the help to to help, you know, that's there to help her too.
Yeah, I can't imagine at the beginning, I thought.
What is she doing? I didn't really understand also.
And then when I talked to the moderator, she's like, there's
several phases. She's in the phase of I need to
try to get her back this way. I can tell myself I tried
everything. She's like, she's in that phase
of denial that if I don't try everything, people are going to
ask me, where did you place her? Or I will tell myself, oh, I
didn't try enough. So she's trying everything she
can just to to tell herself I tried.
So I'm like. OK, so finally by the end of the
year my husband really insisted and told her, you know you need
to see her because you need to see her for real.
So you will see she's a real child and what she needs because
10-15 minutes on the phone and there's the picture, it doesn't
feel real, you need to meet her. And then she got very nervous.
She cancelled three time. Tango wouldn't buy the.
Ticket. Because she, she moved to.
Oh yeah, she she, she moved from to another, no, not another
state but like the city, like like around Los Angeles.
So because we before she was like only three hours away from
us. So finally she's like, OK, can I
come with my mom? And we're like, you know,
whoever you want, there's no problem.
So finally we meet in a very nice park.
It was a fabulous day. It was very, very nice day.
And the day before I went there, I fasted the whole day and I
went to church and I prayed. Because I really believe.
In fasting and praying, because I think you know, your prayers
will really get heard better. And that day was perfect.
We met and all the nastiness, the meanness, everything went
away. It's like nothing happened.
She hugged me. The parents were very nice.
We were able also to ask the parents know what's going on.
Really. She spent the whole afternoon
with her daughter and I gave her some space because she, you
know, took her arm and she started walking around in the
back with her and kissing her and talking to her.
And I'm like, and I look at that and I'm like, oh, this is, you
know, even talking about it right now.
I'm going to cry because it was really, it was really nice.
And when I, when I handed her, you know, my daughter, I told
her, I told my daughter, Oh yeah, that's your mum.
You want to say hi to your mum? And when I say that her dad was
next to me and he started crying, he's like, you don't
know what you just said that you don't know how important what
you just. It is what you just said in my
I'm like, I know it's her mum, it's her birth mother, there's
no problem. And in my.
And we told her she can call you mum.
We have no issue for her calling you mum because this is not the
word she's going to use for me anyway, because she's going to
use the French words for us. We speak French at all.
So there's no competition. There's no two mum.
There's going to be a mum and there's going to be a mummy.
So how? Was your daughter when they met.
Sorry. How old was your?
Daughter when they met, oh, it was like.
Last year. So she was one year and a half.
Like one year and a half. She's born in May.
She was one year and a half. Everything went fine.
It was a beautiful day at the end.
We all prayed together. We heard that that was a can I
make a can I make a prayer for us?
You know, we all need to get along.
And I'm like, sure, you know, it takes a village.
So we all prayed together. It was very, very nice.
We left. I was like, Oh my God, I can't
believe this, You know, this is perfect.
We're back, you know, because when she was pregnant and we're
talking, I'm not going to say we're friends, but we we're kind
of very close. I was getting very close to her.
And I felt like, OK, we're back to that.
And when we were, when we were at the park, I went to the
bathroom to change my daughter's diaper.
And she came in the bathroom and she's like, Veronique, I want to
thank you. I really want to thank you for
being OK with this. And I'm being OK with what she
said, You know, being OK with me, seeing her.
I'm like, listen, I never said I wasn't OK with this.
Never. I I was always open to this.
I want this. There's no problem.
Let's do this. You know, smaller for the baby.
So I thought we were good, right?
Uh oh. Yes.
Sounds like there's. A Part 2, yeah.
So that was in November. Then we left for Christmas, went
on vacation. My husband did the the last
Christmas video call with her. She could see see her for
Christmas. Then we came back in January and
I'm like, OK, so I'm going back on the call because I didn't
need to do the call for like 6-7 months because we couldn't talk
anymore. So I'm not going to just me.
And so my husband's like, OK, Joanie is going to call you when
do you want to do the visit? And she's like, I don't want to
talk to her. You know why what?
Like I have my reason. You know why I'm like, back to
this. I see she sounds.
That was two months ago. We were hugging and crying.
What's going on? What?
So I think I'm like, I don't understand what's going on.
We heard we talk and your dad made that prayer.
We need to get along. Please don't go back to there.
And I and I told her I already moved on from this.
Can we move on from this? And she said, OK, like, OK,
she's good. Then the day she wanted to talk
to, I think it was maybe Ferrer now because she want to talk to
her Valentine's Day. But on Wednesday, she doesn't
answer my call, She doesn't answer my call, she doesn't
answer my call, and she takes my husband.
She's like, I don't want her to call me, blah, blah, blah.
So to make the story short, I send her a voicemail saying,
listen, your daughter is ready to see you.
She's having dinner. She's ready to see you for
Valentine's Day. She's not going to wait forever
because after I have to give her a bath and everything.
So if you want to see her, it's now.
If you don't see her now, you're going to see her next month.
And from now on, it's going to be.
Once is me, once is my husband, once is me, once is my husband.
If you don't want to see when I'm when it's me, you're going
to see her every two months. So I said also something you
know, You told me you were Christian.
If you're Christian, you wouldn't behave like this.
This is your daughter. You're putting what you have
against me above her. This is this shouldn't be
happening. And I told her, you know, and I
think that's did the trick. I said we prayed together.
I said we prayed together, we hug each other.
And we we made that promise to God that we were getting along.
And now you're doing this 5 minutes later she called, but I
think that did the trick, you know, because I talk about
religion. And so she talked to her
daughter and, you know, after she talked to her like 15
minutes. But now we're back to work.
She doesn't want to talk to me. She doesn't want to.
She's still in that state of mind.
Yeah, it sounds. Like maybe she's like maybe on
medication and then off medication or something.
I think that's so there's some. Bipolar issues something.
No. When we had a file because they
tell you, you know if if the birth mother has no drug issue,
mental issue because of course the the women are going to place
their kids you know they're not they have issue or they wouldn't
do that right. So for her I was they were just
saying that she was pretty depression and that she stopped
the medication while she was pregnant.
She's like, I don't want to. But I feel like.
When she's not taking that medication, she's kind of
behaving normally and I think maybe when she's on a on that
medication it makes her a bit cuckoo.
I don't know. But exactly what you said, you
know, my husband was like, OK, is Sean medication or not now is
it, You know, Doctor Jakeen or Mr. High we're going to talk to
today. We never know.
We never know what to expect. Yeah.
So how is it now? So now last how old is your
daughter? Now she's 3.
She's almost 2. She's almost two in May, so
right now she really doesn't know what's going on.
This was recent. Yeah, this is obvious that was.
I'm doing, I'm doing February, yeah.
A long time is dead this year. So my yeah, my daughter, she
doesn't know what's going on. She knows.
She sees that Lady once a month. I guess she doesn't even
remember, you know, but she saw her, the one before, because
she's still little. She, the birth mother, she
missed like two or three calls. She didn't do January then she
didn't want to do February then she arrests us, telling, saying,
you know, OK, you you owe me two phone calls.
And we're like, no, we're not going to do that.
If she missed a call in 30 days, that's your problem.
You know we cannot get your interest service.
So now my my my fear a little bit is that she might be
consistent for a while and one our daughter is going to know
who she is, she might disappear again.
That's. My fear, I don't know how.
And she changed. She changes her phone number.
Like every month she has a new phone number.
We have to keep up with her. Oh, OK.
This is. She changed her phone number
last week. Again, this is my new.
Phone It's going to be hurtful for your daughter.
But I wouldn't try and shelter her from that too much because
you know she needs to know that and you're just gonna need to be
there to help her through that. But I would just let those cards
fall It's it's on the birth mother at that point and you
know yeah unfortunately that's that's all gonna she's gonna
realize that like you just said she's gonna realize mom's back
and forth and that maybe I'm just not important enough for to
be in her life and that's going to be you know some issues.
That was another thing I was going to ask you and I think you
sent me a question about that. What what is available for
adoptive parents and the birth mother like after the adoption?
Like is there psychological? And also for the baby is there
like as the baby grows is there any or is that kind of on you
guys to get counseling for the baby, I think for the.
For the birth mother of the agency, they give you a lot of
option for. So like I said, you know to pay
for the psychologist like at least five session for to see a
psychologist and she can be part of a group of birth mother and
the group is being lead, lead by a mediator and they can and they
have, I think they have a Facebook also page and they can
meet. I mean I thought that it was
still COVID. So I guess they had zoom, you
know meetings stuff like that. So there was some support.
There was some support, but she refused all of them.
She wanted to do any of them. She was like, no, I don't want
people to know my life and stuff like that.
I'm like, you don't need to tell about you, but you can maybe
listen to the people and see how they react, you know, how they
act, you know, because they're you're in the same position.
Yeah, I was going to say. It it makes you feel not so
alone that you're not, you know, your feelings are valid and
yeah, exactly what? You're what you're.
Going through before you adopted, what kind of training
did you get on raising an adoptee, 'cause it can be kind
of challenging, yeah. Did they give you anything?
So yeah, they. Gave us a lot of books to read.
So I have one book that I've not yet started but it's in my list.
So we bought one of the book and they had also a lot of videos
that we could watch, you know, from their website.
So they give you some material, you know, they give you some
material to some direction to go and and they do the semi now.
So when they explain, you know what to expect.
Maybe not raising the baby, but what to expect now with the like
the process. The process, yeah.
Yeah. Did you notice any behavior
issues with your daughter, like when you brought her home?
Like did you notice any like excessive crying or sadness or
grief or any? No, I think.
She's going on, Yeah, after the visit.
You mean the facilities? No.
Like as a? Baby, when you brought her home.
Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, like at.
First being taken from the birth mother and having that no
because. What?
So what happened when she was born?
I was supposed to be there at the hospital and she wanted me
to be there at the and you were on vacation.
Again or something. No, no, no.
No, no. Oh, no, no, no, no.
We knew where she was going to be.
She was due to like, we're not going anywhere.
So we prepare everything. I book a hotel for a whole week.
I'm going to work from the hotel.
My husband is going to stay there with our elders, you know,
at home. I'm going to go there because
she lives three hours away from where we were and the day was
supposed to all go all go there and spend the weekend there.
And my husband was going to go back home on Sunday.
The baby arrived at like 7:00 AM.
We're still in bed. I woke up, had like 3 missed
calls, two from the agency. One from here I'm in.
Labor, I'm like, no. So we're driving like Maniac on
the highway. Here we go there and she.
Was already born. I can't believe this.
So it was really well arranged. We had we had a a room next to
her in the hospital. Everything was taken care of.
I'm not OK, thank you very much. And the thing she didn't want to
she didn't hold her when she was born.
Nobody really hold her. So by the time we arrived, she
was she, she was born for like 3 hours and she maybe had been
held, held maybe by by by a nurse, you know, something like
that. And my my husband held there for
like 6 hours. He didn't let her go.
He just like was she was within like 6 hours.
Then we slept there and so we were a little bit of an
attraction at the hospital because I think they never had
an adoption like this open adoption, you know, in that
hospital. So we had a lot of questions.
Is she your surrogate? Who is she?
A friend. How do you?
Know each other. So all the nails were all around
and we were like the style of the of the floor, right?
I didn't know what. Was going on.
So did she ever hold the baby? The birthday?
So yeah, one of the. Nurse talked to her and said you
have to say goodbye. You have to acknowledge, you
know that you had a baby and you have to say goodbye.
So they asked us know is it OK? We're like, yeah, sure because
she didn't like, made any decision when we were driving
there. I received a phone call from the
hospital and and they they tell me so we need to do that on the
baby, this interruption on the baby, is that OK with you?
And like what? And.
And they said, yeah, we are the birth mother.
And she said, no, no, ask the parents.
So I'm like, OK, yeah, yeah, do whatever you need to do.
All right. So she wanted, she didn't want
to hold her or anything. So we said, yeah, that's fine.
So she came in our room and the baby was having like a little
noodle test for audition. So the there was a nurse there
and the nurse said, oh, you want her to hold her?
So she hold her was the while the nurse was doing the test and
he was really like and I I look at them and I'm like, this is
that was really cute. You know she was holding her and
she was caressing her head but then she started to freak out.
She started to. Freak out the.
Baby was really small, by the way.
She was really small when she was born.
And so she started to freak out and she was like, she's too
heavy, She's too heavy. I can't.
And I thought, I think she was
about to drop her or something. So my husband jumped and said,
OK, I'm, I'm going to do it and it it, you know, it took over.
Yeah. Oh my.
Gosh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think. She freaked out a little bit and
then the nurse left. And we started, you know, she
turned around. She said thank you.
You don't know what you're doing from you're doing, you know, for
me. Thank you very much.
I want to thank you. And she started holding me and
we started crying together. I'm telling you, we were really,
really close. So she, yeah, that's all the
contact she had with the baby. And when we came home with her,
she was the perfect baby. She slept after like two or
three months. She did like full nights.
I'm like, Oh my God, it's so much easier when you don't give
birth, you know, you don't have all the recovery to.
Deal with Yeah. Much.
So much. Easier so.
But now we didn't feel like there was any.
The only thing I could I could say from what I remember my
first daughter, which was natural.
I think the bonding, the bonding time with her took a bit longer,
like for her to really come to me or hug me anything like that.
I think my daughter it was more. Natural instinct was there.
Yeah, Yeah, so. I know it's maybe because I
breastfeed her. Also.
No, I think breastfeeding or so bonds you with the baby a a bit
more. So I didn't breastfeed her, so I
don't know. But now?
Yeah, now. Now she's like, she's kissing me
all the time. She's.
I mean, she's. She runs.
To me, at daycare, when she sees me, she's like.
You know she. So she knows who I am.
There's no, yeah, we don't feel any difference.
I mean, for us, she's our daughter.
There's no differences. Yeah.
Do you think that adoption is traumatic for the baby being
separated from the birth mother? That's a good question.
I know it's traumatic for the birth mother, for sure.
That's traumatic for her. That's 100% for the baby.
I did. I don't know.
I I'm not really sure. Because like I say, you know,
when we came, we hold her right away.
She wasn't like, you know, in the nursery, all alone in a
little creep for a whole day. We came and we really took care
of her right away. Do you really know, you know,
who's taking care of you? I mean, like I said, you know, I
was raised by another woman and I thought she was my mum.
I didn't really feel, you know, and I think the confusion came
later when I was age to understand, Oh no, she's not my
mum. That's my mum.
I don't think I really had any. When I was detailed for me was.
Oh yeah, You know, she's the one giving me my bottle or, you
know, she's the one feeding me. I don't think there was a big
issue with that. How do you handle discussions
with your daughter? You probably haven't had many
yet, but if when she comes to you and has, you know, questions
about her birth family or adoption in general, how do you
plan on handling those questions, especially with her
birth mother being kind of erratic and well, I'm.
Hoping I'm hoping that we can still contact actually with the
parents of the birth mother, because I want the plan.
When we were there at the park they asked us, you know how we
they had a lot of gift for her and stuff and they had they
arranged a picnic for us. They were really, really nice
people. And so she, the, the, the
parents said can we stay in contact with you you know have
your address so we can send a gift for Christmas or.
And we said, yeah, sure. And Herman were like, oh, the
birth of she has her address. I think she was.
She has her address from her paper, the paperwork.
And I said, you know she can you know give them to you and was
supposed to exchange for numbers.
I don't know what happened. I think I thought my husband did
it. He thought I did it.
Nobody did anything. And when we left, I'm like, did
you give us the the information? And he said, Oh no, I thought
you did it, but I was like, oh, we can do it later.
It's not not because everything is good now.
Now it's back to work. So I can't even I don't even
dare asking her can we have, you know, your parents information.
This way we can send them things.
So I'm hoping. She's sending.
Pictures, forwarding all the pictures and everything.
Maybe our parents are her parents are going to ask her,
you know, for the address. I'm not really sure, but I think
for the future we will be in in contact with them and we'll be
able, you know, to even visit, visit them, you know, without
her or whatever, because she has like six or seven brothers and
sisters. And the dad?
The dad was sad. Because like, you know, she has
cousins. We have no other grandchildren.
We like to know her actually or so, and she's doesn't know that
part of the family and we want her to know that part of the
family. She has cousins and she has
grandparents. Yeah.
What? Would you say are the pros and
cons of open versus a closed adoption, in your opinion, in
your experience, yeah. I think the pros and cons, I
think it depends on the birth mother.
In our case, I don't think open adoption is good for her to be
honest. I think every month is.
It's torture for her just to see me or just to hear my voice or I
think the agency usually so they told usually the the the rules
of the visit are every two months pictures and video calls
once a year the face to face and but she was really insisting and
they're like she's really insisting do you mind doing once
a month And I'm like no I don't care I'm I'm always posting
picture you know on Facebook every day so once a month it's
OK No, I think it's too much. I think it's too much for her.
I didn't. Realize what she can.
Handle and what she can handle and yeah.
I think it's too much for her. So I think it depends, you know,
if you who do you have to deal with?
If it's like for instance a Teen Mom, but she's right in her
mind, you know, there's no problem.
Or it could be a mother where you have 55 kids and she there's
no way she can handle 1/6 mom. You know people, rational, open
adoption is great, rational people.
But people who have mental issue drugs issues, the thing like
that, I don't know if he's good for her.
I don't know. I don't.
Know if you would, as a birth mother, giving up your child, if
you would know how you're going to react in that moment.
Oh yeah, no. Because it's so.
Traumatic. I can't even imagine what you
what you're going through in that moment and then what you
have to do to live every day after that.
It's just like I, as a mother cannot imagine, you know.
And I don't think you can kind of you might know.
You might think you how you might react, but I don't think
you really know until you're in that moment, you know and and
actually giving up your child. Let's talk, let's talk about,
oh, you want to say something about that.
No, no, no. No, don't worry.
Let's talk about the post adoption contract agreement.
The PAC, I'm not really familiar with that.
So can you tell us what that is? So yeah, so this is.
Where you write everything in details, how it's going to be,
you know after the adoption, how many visit, how many, what she
can do, what she cannot do. So for instance, we could, if we
were really mean, we could stop all of this, all the the contact
because there is a a little clause in the contact saying,
you know, if there's a lack of trust and if there's a lack of
disrespect, something like that, you know, you you could go see a
judge and say we need to change something.
So my husband is really against that.
I don't want to deal with that either.
So we're not going to do that. But there was a lack of, there's
a lack of of trust now because we know she might talk to
another, to lawyers or whatever to try to see if she can have
her daughter back. Why would you do that when you
know it's it's final, nothing is going to change.
You know we talked to a lawyer and he said unless he was a fake
agency there's no way she can you know attack you on this.
It's like it's final. So yeah, so the the, the post
adoption contract is just saying everything is going to happen
for 12 years by the way because some yeah, it's 12 years.
So after 12 years it's going to be although you know decision if
she wants to stay in contact with her mum or.
But I mean by that age anyway she would be old enough to go
online herself you know and log in and talk to her if she wants
to. So we won't really have to know
to to do anything, but it's up to 12 years, yeah.
So. That even.
For me. Hearing that, I would really
tell her as much truth as you can about the birth mother so
that at that point she can make a informed decision.
You know, 'cause if she doesn't know some of these things going
on, you know she may making an informed decision and decide to
kind of jump in there. What would you how would you
feel if she decided to have a close relationship with her
birth mother, even though she was kind of around I?
Hope she will. I hope she will.
I want her to be close to it's
it's her mom. She gave her life.
You know I'm. I'm nothing that there's.
I'm telling you there's no competition because I'm.
I'm the one raising her. I see her every day.
I, you know, I put her to bed every every night.
There's no competition For me it's more love.
But from what I just I I saw until now, I think she will
realize very fast that there's some issue because some funk.
One we had issue with, she was reading a book and the book had,
you know, the colour of the of the Oh my God of the word in
French, not in English. You know when they had?
All those when it reigns Rainbow.
Oh my God, Rainbow. So the colour.
Was about the book was about a Unicorn and you know, the
rainbow colours and stuff. And the birth mother freaked out
because she thought it was about HGBT stuff.
Oh gosh. Yes, and we had a big.
Fight on the phone because she's like, you need to get rid of
that book. I don't want my daughter to see
that. And she think because, you know,
we're immigrant or whatever, we don't know what's going on in in
in in America with maybe HGBT pushing the agenda to kids.
She's like, you don't know what's going on in this country.
You know, they're trying to do that and with these kind of
books. And my husband was like, listen,
it's about a Unicorn. Yeah.
And like. You're going to be able to
shield her from that anyway, out in the world.
And that's exactly. What you know, he said.
You know, we have friends from all over and from.
They're not all Christian, by the way, so we won't be able to
shield her from the world. She's going to see everything,
you know, in the world. So, So I think my daughter and
our daughter is going to, if she continues in that, you know, in
that route, she will see quickly, you know, when she's
online without that there's something, something's off.
So she might make her own decision, like, you know, I
don't know if I want to talk to her that often or yeah.
By the time she's. 77867 you know you already, you can
already realize, you know, if you want to talk to the lady or
not. Yeah, yeah, like I said.
You're just going to have to be there for her to experience her
birth mother and just be there for her to help her through any
emotions and feelings that she's gonna feel about how she's
processing all of that, you know?
So I have a question for you, 'cause I, you know, in the
adoptee circles, I hear a lot about, you know, profit
adoptions and, you know, people, the adoptees are like, they're
selling babies. And I've heard, I've heard that
certain babies have higher price tags, so, you know, it could be
due to their race or some genetic factors.
That why they might go for a higher 'cause they're more in
demand, you know? Have you heard about?
That do you, did you experience that at all Like I'm just
curious what you know and then what is the average cost?
You said 20,000 that I've heard, I've heard up to 70,000.
I don't know. I mean, this is just hearsay.
So 20. 1000 is the price of the agency, the what they asked for,
the match and everything and after you have all those things
around it. So for us, it cost us at least
50,000. Yeah.
Because you have to pay for the when he goes to know to sign the
paperwork to the California board or whatever, then you have
to sign for the doctor. Then you have to sign for a lot
of stuff. Oh and also you have to take
care of the birth model. You know you have to take care
of her for the the month when they so they try to introduce
you to the birth model. Not too early, not like like 5
months. So they introduced us to for us.
Our birth mother was introduced when she was seven months, so we
had to take care of her for two months because she was living in
a motel. And So what does?
That mean exactly taking care of her.
So she was kind of. Homeless, so we paid for we.
She was in a motel where she had to move every week.
She couldn't stay more than a week in a hotel.
And I'm like, no. So we paid like a Airbnb for her
for two months. Then you have to pay herself a
food maybe phone stuff like that.
You know, so you give the so the agency, they have flat fees for
everything. So you don't pay her because of
course it would be like buying a baby, right.
So everything is regulated. There's when you go on the
website, the agency, they will tell you this is for the rent.
You know how much you can, I mean it's up to you for the
rent, of course, how much you can you can put for the rent.
This is what we give her for food and stuff like that and you
just pay through the agency and they give her you know gift card
and stuff like that and this way she can pay.
You can pay also for Uber taxi for her to go to the hospital
and stuff like that. We were lucky that she was
covered by California, the health for the healthcare.
So we don't have to pay anything for healthcare, but I think some
states you have to pay also you know for for her when she goes
to the doctor for delivery, stuff like that.
It can, It can do the, the, the bill can go very, very high,
that's for sure. Definitely.
So you probably don't even know how high it can go in the
beginning. I mean, you don't know what
she's going to need or whatever. I mean, I mean, yeah, it.
Can go very, very high. I mean there is another way also
to know to you can adopt, you know through foster care and
it's free. I mean, if people, you know, if
you want this kind of money. And like I I told you, if it
wasn't covered by my husband job, we'd have never done that
because we don't inform this. Yeah.
They were very lucky that my husband had this kind of
benefit. He checked before.
He's like, oh, let me see that this benefit he's like, oh, this
is how much they gave us. I'm like, OK, perfect.
But as far as? You experienced or saw there
wasn't like, you know, 'cause I've heard you know, white
babies go for more money than, you know, colored babies and all
this stuff. Have you heard that or seen that
at all? So not.
With the agency. With the agency, they told us of
course, White baby, they don't stick it on the market because
most of the parents are white. And of course they want a baby
that will look like them, like like them.
There's a lot of competition for white baby.
And they say, you know, if you're a white couple or in a
way there was also a single mother, you know, gay couple,
whatever they say, you might try to be open to every race.
And I think that's why we will also match very quickly.
First, we had not a lot of competition, the only black
family there and we were open to any race.
I didn't mind if the baby was Indian, Asian, you know, Pacific
Island, whatever. We didn't care.
So I think that's so much very quickly.
And the thing was, she told us also especially in California,
she, she said there's not a lot of Asian baby, not a lot of
Indian baby because this kind of community, they help each other.
And if one of if somebody, if a woman is pregnant usually you
know the mum would take care of the aunt you know the they come
together. So she said the the most of the
kids are are placed actually are mixed race baby because I mean
you're like Oh no we don't want you know a black a Mexican or
whatever so you have to be open. So I wouldn't say that on if you
go through a a a legit agency there's no rate for white baby
or whatever. You might wait more if you want
somebody to look like you. But in at the same time I was
doing something else that is what you because I'm like oh
that's taking a long time And I heard about those.
What do you call them? It's not mediator.
It's like somebody who works for they're not lawyers but they
will find pregnant lady for you. We call them baby.
Brokers, yeah, yeah, yeah. The adoption, the adoptee's call
them baby brokers, yeah. There's another way.
I mean the official, you know that I'm sure there is an.
Yes, yes. So I worked with that woman for
like 3 months because after three months I was we were
match. But so she has the website and
you have all the babies there with all the race and
everything, all the story of the birth mother.
And to be to be like match you have to apply through the link
and you have to pay like maybe like $20.00 or $50 just to apply
to be presented and then after it's like it's very expensive,
yeah. There's actually pages on
Facebook and it I mean it it they all seem like a scam.
People are selling their babies on Facebook and there's actually
people, yes, there's sites on there and I I think it's a scam.
Obviously there's there's people that are so desperate for a baby
that they are on there saying I want your baby, contact me, DM
me. You know, it's horrible.
It is horrible. But yeah, people are just so
desperate that they'll they'll fall for that stuff.
You know, Facebook should remove that.
Page should remove that. That's yeah, we.
The adoptives find those pages and we're like, report it.
You know, we tell each other to report those pages because it's
yeah, it's it's got to be a scam.
There's no way you can't be selling your babies on Facebook.
No, you can't, but people. Are so desperate that they'll
just, they'll send them money, you know, they'll send some
money. Oh my God.
But. You can.
You can feel kind of away, you know, after you go, you went
through this agency and you spend that much money, you can
be like, yeah, I bought a baby because it's so expensive.
You can be like, you know, you, you bought a baby.
But in another way, I'm thinking, you know, and I helped
someone because she was not good.
When I met her, she was not good.
She wasn't really, you know, heavy.
She had a little belly. She was all skinny.
I don't think she was eating right.
You know, we went to a nice restaurant, you know, to a good
restaurant. We we have lunch.
I said, you know, do you want to take your stuff?
You know, like pack your pack your leftovers and everything.
She's like, Oh yeah, I'm going to also bring some for my
boyfriend. I don't think they were eating
right, you know, living in a motel and stuff like that.
And I'm like, no, we're going to put you, you know, somewhere
comfortable when you can relax and sleep.
Because she was saying, you know, I have to wake up every
day because they they come in the in the room to clean and I
cannot sleep. So in my mind, I was like, OK, I
know I we pay all those, you know, fees for the agency.
But he didn't go. The fees didn't go to her.
He said. Like we paid her, right?
Yeah. So what do you think about the
adoption agency as a whole? Like do you see any areas that
need improvement? I don't understand why it's too
expensive, You understand? You know, where's all the money
going? I mean, yeah, they hope should
be for. For.
Profit. You know, none of these adoption
agencies should be for profit. Like it?
I think it's me. I guess I'm.
I guess they need to pay the employee because there's a lot
of people working there, you know, and trying to match you
with us, with someone. Also, it needs to be more
transparent about the matching because I didn't know if you
were getting presented or not. And after six months I'm like,
how come we don't even get matched with one baby?
And she's like, no, actually your, your profile is being
visited a lot. And she said we actually
presented you like 19 times, blah blah, blah.
I'm like I didn't know you you you never told us.
You know I I thought nothing was happening you know backstage.
So can you be more transparent about that?
You know I didn't really know. So yeah, more transparency about
the matching maybe. I don't know why the this price
also it's like $5000 the marketing, but it takes from.
The OR three three. Thousand, I don't remember.
It was so much money. So there was some prices.
I'm like wow, we need 5K to to. I think it was the matching
thing for them because you could register with them saying you
you want to adopt A baby but be matched by something some like
somebody outside. And then so if you match with
one of those baby broker for instance, so the agency doesn't
match you, you pay the baby broker which is cheaper than the
agency actually. And then when you match, the
agencies do doing all the paperwork.
That's what you're paying them for.
They are the ones all the paperwork.
So but we're like now I'm not gonna do that.
So we pay them for the match and I think that was 5K for like 3
years something like that. It's but after three years if
you're not much you have to repay again.
So I Oh my. Gosh, Oh my gosh.
And I'm telling. You There's some people in
there. When I check on the website,
sometimes they've been there for more than two years, yeah.
So, so as an adoptive parent, what advice would you give those
that are thinking about adopting?
Being be very patient because it can take a long time.
Be very patient be open to to a baby.
Not going to look like you because if you really want, I
want or I want to. First of all you cannot choose a
gender by the way it's not like placing an order.
So yeah, what if the baby's? Born and you look at the baby
and you're like, this isn't what I want.
You know you can't do that. Well, too bad.
Well, I think as you, I mean, some, I don't think it happened,
but I think you can change your mind as a adoptive parent.
You can say, you know, Oh no, we're not ready or whatever.
But it doesn't look good if you do that, you know?
Yeah. I don't think anybody did.
That you know, a baby is a baby. You know, how can you go there
and say I don't want that baby? No, you know you're open to our
baby are so cute. I've heard of it.
Happening. Really.
Yeah. People say no, we don't.
Want it? Uh huh.
Yeah. Because they had red hair and
they were like, oh we don't want a red headed baby.
Yeah. We'll wait for the next one.
Well, you're not.
You're not ready to be parents. If that's so important for you
that the baby has ready. Yeah.
You shouldn't even be parent. It's not what it's about.
So whatever. Oh, well, I hope they waited
like five more years to. I know, right?
I know, yes. I don't remember anything else,
anything. Else you want to tell parents
that are thinking about adopting, yeah?
Yeah, be patient. Continue to live your life.
Don't think about it because I think the more you think about
it, the less it's going to happen.
Continue your life like you know, you know it's going to
happen. Just live your life, go on
vacation, you know, do your stuff.
Be patient. Maybe try your sort of route.
I mean first, first. We also thought to do first
start to adopt. You know it's expensive to do
private adoption. You need to learn about other,
there's other routes you can do. First start to adopt when after
a year you can adopt the the, the, the, the child.
It doesn't have to be a baby, could be one or two years old
and after a year the the the mum is not usually.
Sometimes they don't show up because they have issue.
You can apply and adopt, adopt the child and that's free.
You don't have to pay for it. So.
You know there's other route than private adoption.
Be careful when you see sign also the the Packer I mean the
the post adoption contract try to see if you're comfortable
with it and because the benefits of course the the birth mother
but it is also to benefit the child and and you need to be
comfortable with it also because for us right now it's like every
month we think every time we think oh OK it's a new month
we're going to have to what is going to happen now is she going
to be on right mind or not you know if we are maybe two months.
That's what we now. We're doing once.
My husband wants me this way. One of us has two months, one
month is not taking care of this.
He's not dealing with this, you know, so hoping that the birth
mother can find some support somewhere, because I think
that's one of the most horrible things that can happen to women
to place a child. There's no way a woman, no woman
want that. If you have a baby, you want.
If you kept the baby, it's because you know you want it.
And when he's born. You know, you don't want to give
it away. So I was, I was really hoping
she would get some support, you know, for that.
Yeah, I think she. Needs it.
Sounds like it. So in closing, what would you
like struggling adoptive parents to know?
Maybe that they're struggling with maybe the birth mother or
just raising their adoptive child?
What would you like them to know?
You guys are not alone. I think there's a lot of us, you
know, out there. And actually, you know when you
were asking me at the beginning if I was part of the community,
I was, I was going to look around to see if there was no
other parents like me, adoptive parents who have issue, you
know, with the the their birth mother and see, you know, what
did you do guys, You know what? What did you do?
Did you talk to a mediator? Did moderator, did you contact a
lawyer? You know what's going on because
sometime I think that we need a break and sometime I think, you
know, it might even be better for her.
Maybe she can talk to her when when she can respond to her,
when I'll try and be old enough to respond to her because right
now it's kind of difficult. So yeah, just know, yeah, you're
not alone. There's a lot of of us out there
struggling a little bit, but it's all worth it.
It's all worth it. I'm I'm happy everyday when I
see her. I'm happy everyday.
So she's really proud of her family.
Yeah, if you. Or there is an adoptive parent
out there that is struggling. Beth Syverson has a lot of help
for you guys. It's she has a podcast as well,
unraveling adoption. And she's an adoptive parent who
has struggled a lot with her child and she does coaching now
and has all kinds of resources and pages.
So if you are an adoptive parent out there, I'll put the links in
the show notes for Beth. But Veronik, tell us about your
podcast and where we can find you.
Yes. So I have a podcast, of course a
podcast with my friend Sylvia. So I'm from the French
Caribbean, she's from Brazil and we have a podcast about
motherhood spirituality and so we it's called High Vibes and a
mic and we are on any platform. You where you podcast from Apple
podcast to Spotify, iHeartRadio. You can find us and you can see
the extract of our show. We put some clips on Instagram.
You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook and it's called A
High Vibes and a Mic. And all those links will be in
the show notes if you want to connect with Veronique and her
podcast. But thank you so much for coming
on today, Veronique, Like I said, I don't get a lot of
adoptive parents and so I had a ton of questions for you.
So thank you for educating us on the adoptive parent view today.
Thank you. It was.
Fun Thank you very much for having me.
Thank you. I want to.
Thank Veronique again for being just so open and honest with her
story today. And I want to thank you for
listening all the way through to the end of this podcast and I
hope you got something out of it.
I hope you learned something new.
I hope that there were some seeds planted for you to think
about. And you know, some things that
made me think were I don't know how I would handle infertility
issues. What I have thought.
About adopting, I don't know. I not.
I wasn't put in that position. I don't know what I would feel
about having an open adoption with the birth mother, even if
it was more beneficial to my child.
I don't know if I would be OK with that.
So just trying to see things through another person's eyes
and their perspective is what I was trying to do today.
And I definitely am thinking about a few of the things that
she said. And you know, I may not agree
with everything that she said. And I'm sure maybe I said a
couple of things that maybe she didn't agree with either.
But. Educating.
Ourselves again, educating ourselves so that we can have an
informed belief around what we are feeling and saying to others
is huge. So I hope you have got some food
for thought today and I want to thank Veronique for again being
so open and honest as an adoptive parent, being brave and
coming on in an Adoptee podcast. You never know what we're going
to say or do, so thank you for being brave and coming on today.
If you are an adoptive parent and struggling with your
adoptive child, or just have some questions about being an
adoptive parent, the links are in the show notes to Beth
Cyverson. She is a great resource for all
kinds of things and she also has a podcast Unraveling Adoption,
so all those links are in the show notes if you need help.
If you're an adoptee and need help, get in contact with me.
Mind your own karma@gmail.com. I have 1001 resources for you,
including myself. I do somatic mindful guided
imagery, so if you want to know more about that, you can go to
my website somatichealingjourneys.com.
If you want to be on the podcast, get in touch with me.
Let's get your story on the podcast.
As always, take what you need and leave what you don't.
And always remember to mind your own karma.
I'll see you next time.