Hey there, it's Melissa Brunetti and welcome to the Mind Your Own
Karma podcast. Hey.
There Karma crew. I am so glad that you are
joining me on another episode of Mind Your Own Karma.
Today I have a special guest, Valerie Naman.
She is an adoptee and an author and just an overall.
Interesting person with a very interesting lived life.
And from what I know about Valerie in the short time that I
have met her is that those life adventures are just going to
keep coming for her. Let me tell you a little more
about Valerie. Valerie is an author,
singer-songwriter, ontologist, environmentalist, eco village
founder, travel and spiritual guide, beekeeper and a Mama of
her dwarf goats. She's probably a Gemini,
although her birthdate is unknown.
Valerie holds a Master of Arts from the University of Miami and
is the president of the Spirit Foundation and NPO that supports
disenfranchised children. Valerie's new book, Mystic
Masquerade and Adoptee Search for the Truth, was compiled from
decades of Diaries and journals she wrote during her biological
and spiritual search. Valerie now lives in Asheville,
NC with her honey bees and her dwarf goats.
Here is Valerie Naman's adoption story.
So we are welcoming Valerie Naman to the show today.
Hi, Valerie. Hi, I'm happy to be here.
Yay, Let me just say there is so much packed into this book,
there's no way we can cover it all in this interview.
But we're going to try. So let's just start out with
some of your adoption story, and then I'd love to dig into some
of the spiritual stuff too, if you don't mind.
Sure. Anything great.
So I mean, I feel connected to you for so many reasons after
reading this book. Your book Mystic Masquerade.
So start off by telling us in a nutshell what the book is about,
if you can. Well, the book is about my
search for my identity and I ended up not knowing I was
really adopted until decades later for sure when my parents
passed away and my brother when I was seven came in when I was
feeding the birds. I had a little birdhouse right
and the just started screaming through his baseball cap on the
ground, kicked up dust and which I said what's the matter?
And he goes. We don't belong here.
They're not our parents in front of my parents.
And this wasn't going to discuss it, you know?
After all, you know, why would you question anything like that?
You know, of course I was told that came from the monkey
jungle. I know we're going to get into
that, so I just want to read part of the first paragraph of
your book, OK? It says I was taken from my
mother's womb at birth, never to see her again.
Unheld, I entered A frigid black hole with no compass.
As an infant, there was no way to grasp what had happened.
Life catapulted me into an abyss of mystery that took decades to
unravel. And just from the beginning,
that first paragraph, when I read it, just gave me the
chills. But your adoption story is kind
of unique in my opinion, in many ways, starting with what you
were told about your birth. So tell us what your adoptive
parents told you about what you call your mystery birth.
Oh, I I didn't have a stork. You know, I was told I came from
the Monkey Jungle. There's a big monkey jungle in
Miami. And they used to take me there
all the time to see my all my friends and family that I was
taken from. And I loved it.
We had a fun time going there. And I started mimicking monkeys
and I was, you know, I became like.
An acrobatic. And you know, the way they can
sing, swing through the trees and, you know, and I had sock
monkeys, no dolls. All my friends had dolls, but
not me. I had sock monkeys.
And so, you know, they told me, I said, well, what happened to
my tail? And he said, well, you know, you
were swinging from the chandelier And we thought we
were, you know, you'd hurt yourself.
And so we cut your tail off. Oh my God, you got my tail off.
So you know, after that it was like, huh, there's so much older
than my my friend's parents and I'm the only blondhaired
blueeyed person in the entire family and there's got to be
something to this. I was freaked out.
I was really freaked out and so but what am I going to do?
I was only 7 at that time. So what did you think about this
monkey? Jungle thing, Like, did you
think you were a monkey? Like who?
Yeah. I did, my mom said.
My first thing she ever noticed about me is I had super long
fingers, which is true, and that an appointed chin.
So I kind of thought I was a witch monkey or something.
But I I, you know, learn to be uncontrollable.
I was a monkey, right? I could do what I wanted to.
So, you know, it took a long time to realize that's not true,
but I never found out for sure that I was adopted until my
parents passed away and I found papers.
So how was that like? I mean, you had a feeling that
you were adopted, but they wouldn't confirm that for you.
So did that affect the relationship with your parents?
Well, not really. My mother was a stage mother,
and so she had me on display all the time.
I had every kind of lesson you can imagine.
I played the piano because I had nice long fingers and I took
ballet, tap, acrobatics, and they would take me on the
weekend and put me on a table at at the restaurant and the deli
restaurant on Miami Beach. And I tap dance and you know, I
had fun. And I was entered in all kinds
of contests, and so I probably forgot about it as a kid for a
while. It's like I'm having a good
life, you know, My parents were really good to me, and we were
so different. My father, you know, as a
publisher always wanted me to be a writer, taught me how to type
like 110 words a minute when I was like 7 or 8.
And my mother and and his part of the family.
His great great grandfather was one of the first rabbis of New
York City. So he came from that lineage.
And my mother, their family, opened the first health food
store in Miami. And so there's all these things
going on. And then my father was the first
town commissioner of Coconut Grove, which before it was
Miami. And so I had a lot from both of
them that I learned, and it was great because.
I didn't hang out with kids very much because my parents were so
old. I kept being taken to all these
events that are adults. But I did learn a lot from
adults. So yeah, I I let it go.
And then when I was in college, I needed a passport because I
got a independent study program to go to England.
And to do that I had to have a passport.
To get a passport, you got to have a birth certificate.
And they wouldn't provide one for me.
They didn't want me going out of the country, this kind of thing.
And so I finally was able to finagle a birth certificate,
which is the first time I ever saw it.
I wasn't even in the system. I didn't have Social Security
number not. So I was able to finagle getting
copies of their birth certificates.
I told him I was building a family tree forest type of thing
and they were very cooperative with that, that and I got my
papers from Florida State University inviting me to come
to England and I took it down to the Miami-Dade courthouse and
you know, she goes, well, you need a birth certificate to get
a pass price. I don't have one, but I have all
these papers and here's my parents first anyway.
I was able to get a copy and that's the first time I ever saw
my birth certificate and. You know, I discovered that the
hospital code didn't match up with the hospital.
There was a lot of things about it that were weird.
And of course, the informants were my adopted parents, so
there was a lot on there. My adopted mother's name was
spelled wrong. And I'm thinking, how can they
mess up such an important document?
It freaked me out, you know, And I started doing searching after
that. And.
Not knowing at that time there was not the Internet or, you
know, the thought of getting a DNA test.
So I registered with Soundex and so many adopted groups where if
you sent the information and if your birth parents checked in
there, then you'd get a match or maybe a message.
I did that for years. Never got anything, Yeah.
So how was your relationship with your brother?
He was also adopted, right? Oh, he was also adopted.
He left home early in life and then I ran away from home in
11th grade. He was my antagonist as a kid,
you know. So he would like put Limburger
cheese on my doorknobs and marbles on my floor or acorn so
I'd slip and fall and this kind of thing, you know, put my put
my sock monkey up in a tree so that if I tried to get it, a
bucket of water would fall on. So he was, he was kind of a
jokester. Against her.
He was three years older and when I was finally allowed to
date, it had to be a. Double date with my brother and
of course. Oh gosh.
So anyway, we're good friends. And yeah, he's he's still
kicking. Oh, good.
So how did being adopted affect how you navigated through life?
How do you think it affected you?
Well, a lot. Of it has to do with retrospect.
Because I didn't realize. I mean, when I was 40 years old
and I was trying to think through all of this, it's like,
well, I have what I call my inner community.
And so it's the different voices in my head.
And I I attempt to get them into consensus, which seems
impossible a lot of times, but at that time, it's like nothing
was working. I tried everything.
I didn't know. Who I was, I've been wearing
different masks, playing different theatrical characters
because that's how what I was thrown into.
So I was an actress. I ended up being an actress on
Broadway later and a costume designer, and I was always into
theatrics. That's what made sense to me.
And so when I finally got to, I was 40 the first time I cried
about it. I want to know.
Where I came from, you know. And so my inner voices were
screaming at me. You don't need to know that.
Yeah, you do. You know, what do you need
Professional help? And I'm like, yeah, I do.
So I started searching and I was looking for an therapist
specifically for adoptees, and I wasn't able to find any in all
of America. I was willing to go anywhere.
And so then I came across kind of a counselor Joe Soul.
And he was doing a treat for adoptees only in the Virgin
Islands, like within a week or so.
And I thought, I'm going, so I did.
And that's the first time I've been around other adoptees.
And it just opened up so many things.
It's like it was the first time I ever heard of the Primal
Wound. Yeah, just amazing.
We just showed it this past week here.
And I'm going to Nashville or I don't know when this is hearing,
but I'll be going to Nashville in two weeks to present my book
and also be part of that documentary showing there with a
filmmaker and a bunch of people, so.
Yeah, that's great. And so yeah, how it affected my
life. I didn't know it had affected my
life until much later after I realized what the primer womb
was and started getting into my own stuff and said, Oh my God,
this is the reason I've never bonded with people, never been
able to stay in a relationship. This is the reason that.
You know, if somebody lies to me, they don't even get three
shots. And when I had felt that
somebody might leave me, I'd jump shift right away, abandoned
before you can be abandoned. And so all of a sudden, all this
stuff started making sense. It's like, of course, of course.
And so, yeah, it affected me in a big way.
And you know, they they don't talk about that.
Who knows about that? The infant is clueless.
But inside the infant isn't clueless.
You know, the earliest memory I have is like, and it's just so
embedded in me. And I I have no idea.
I was lying on the floor. I was an infant, and I screamed
that I couldn't scream anymore. And that's the only memory I
have at that time. I always had a babysitter till I
was in high school, which was dorky.
I'm sure it affects us all, whether we're aware of it or
not. And a lot of adoptees, you know,
they take it on like they're not worthy and you know, they're not
lovable and this kind of thing that is.
Mostly even before they realized that they have this trauma.
And so there's some adoptees, which I fall into.
That category is like, hey, you know what?
I got this. I don't need anybody's help.
I can do everything by myself. And so that served me a lot.
It served me because. I started my own businesses.
I never wanted to work for anybody.
I, you know, wanted to retire by the age of 30 and then do
whatever I wanted to do, you know, go sell shoes, do
anything, make money 1st and then do what you want to do.
So I was determined. I was driven and and I did all
that and you know open a couple of my own businesses and.
When I realized I had to hire help too, and like I opened the
first costume shop in Asheville. I did film and television for
years and then moved to Asheville, NC and gave it all up
thinking what am I doing with my life?
You know, I I was a stylist for a lot of famous companies that I
felt were not beneficial to the world.
And I I don't want to be doing this.
I want to be doing something worthwhile.
I gave up the whole industry and moved to Asheville, NC and I
love it. I haven't left and I opened the
first costume shop here and the first balloon delivery service
here and made-up different acts because I I was so full of
characters that I myself could play any character.
A lot of times I would get lost in the character and attempt to
find my way home. Like who who am I?
Yeah. So that that went on for quite a
while. And then until I busted through
that and I did go deep from costuming, I got into making
sacred garments from different traditional elders, bringing
different traditional elders to Asheville to share their wisdom
and this kind of thing. And the visions took over me and
my life changed. And then I finally sold my
businesses and kept going. Yeah, I think for a lot of
adoptees, the first step is realizing that you've been that
actor in your life and then trying to journey back to your
essence. And then comes those
realizations of This is why I do this and and all of that.
But until that journey starts, until that journey starts, it's
you're still on the fog. You had quite a time trying to
find your birth parents and there was like a lot of dead
ends and even sought out psychics.
So tell us about the search. What were the biggest challenges
that you encountered? The challenges were like, so a
friend said you've got to test your DNA, get on National
Geographic had a genome project and he had just done it.
And so I said, OK, I'll support National Geographic and I did
it. And it came back and they didn't
give you any results, but they did tell me I have one of the
highest percentages of Denisovan DNA, and I'm like Denisovan DNA.
What's that? What is that?
Well, I googled for it and the first thing that popped up was
meet the strangest hybrid in human history.
Wow. And I thought, well, that
explains it. Yeah.
And then I found out further that they had long fingers.
And yeah, it that led me down a rabbit hole for way over a year.
Wow, I bet. And I never got anywhere with
that. But by that time I thought I was
an alien black market baby, You know, right.
Because that's what's happening. And it led me down the O
negative blood hole because I'm O negative.
And I found that out too. And I just was down so many
rabbit holes that I got lost. And when I finally came out of
all of that, took a breather. I don't know what I did after
that for a little while. And then I took another test.
I took an ancestry test. And you know, I'd heard if you
get a first cousin, you really got it right.
You can do something. Nothing printed out everything I
could. Third cousins.
There was a few. Seconds and I tried to.
I used a ream of paper and printed out people's trees and
and I had it taped up all over my sunroom, where I'm sitting
now that billowed out from this table onto the floor and then
into the living room. And it was like a patchwork
quilt. It was just mind boggling.
And my friend came over and said you have to go to a movie with
me. And she took me to see the lion.
And we're sitting there and it gets to the point where he's got
stuff taped off and maps on the wall and she's like elbowing me
because that's you. And I still didn't get anywhere.
You know, with my sister, you have one month where you can do
all kinds of stuff every day. I was doing that.
Until midnight that night. And you know, And then I kept
subscribing. They get you.
Oh yeah, What was the big break? Did you use DNA to find?
Well then I did another DNA test.
So then I did 23 Andme and I also didn't get anywhere.
There were a few that weren't on there and Oh my God, it was just
a mess. So this went on for years.
I had no matches and when my parents passed away, I found my
adoption record and it listed me as infant Hanson.
I'm like, oh God, I got a name. Surely I can find her now.
Nothing. A third cousin.
There was one third cousin that could have been a Hanson.
I was emailing everybody to whatever, you know, 23andMe and
Ancestry trying to get something.
Never got anywhere. So this went on for years and
years. And finally about was it like
five years ago, There was some guy who had put up a tree, an
ancestry. Little did we know he didn't
know who he was either. His tree led me to find my
mother. And by this time, I had a
search. Angel, too.
Mary from Texas. I'd met her at an adoption
conference in Atlanta, and she was trying to help me.
And so was Lana from DNA detectives.
They're like, we don't know what's going on, but we're not
getting anywhere. And your father's even harder to
find it. I thought, great, this is
really, I had no yes on my father's side after three DNA
tests. Oh my gosh.
I know I was just my inner communities.
Like, do you want to spend the rest of your life doing this?
Does it really matter who your parents are?
Yeah. And.
And just all of that, you know, And I'd lay it down and I'd pick
it up and I'd lay it down. Kept journals and all kinds of
notes. I had to have all these notes.
Even got a detective. I went to three detectives.
No one was able to give me the information.
And one detective did and I drove to Miami at the address
that he said she was at when I was born and there never been
anything there, no matches with the name.
You know, I filed for non identifying information, which
anybody can do. I filed twice for that and found
out that she was from the largest western coastal state,
so I knew she was from California.
That came twice. But there was no Hansons that
matched me at all, and so I'm calling.
I spent a week looking through papers and having my friends do
research and calling the graveyards and finding out if
there's anybody. God, it was terrible and still
didn't get anywhere. But this one guy put up a tree.
Thinking he knew who he was, that linked me to somebody else
and so that went to his sister. I'm trying to remember the whole
chain of events, but anyway, my Angel Mary, I I sent her that
and she goes, oh wow. So my Angel Mary with me not
knowing, even contacted this sister who happens to be a
granddaughter of my aunt. Something like that.
Anyway, the whole thing flipped through.
And then I ended up talking to this person.
My Angel made contact and said, would you try and get a hold of
Valerie? She's been trying to get a hold
of you. And then Angel Mary called me
and said get on right now. You're going to get a message on
Facebook. Meanwhile, I'd been on Facebook
and connecting all the dots of who this guy was related to.
That's how we got there, sister. And that she was online at the
time. My Angel got online and made a
connection. And then from there, that person
called my supposingly aunt. No first cousin.
Sorry. That's OK.
I know. So then I ended up being able to
talk to her. I said hi as, As it turns out
too, it looks like my siblings went to the same high school I
did in Miami. Unbelievable.
Oh, wow. What about genetic attraction?
Yeah. Anyway, my first cousin called
my mother and told her I was looking for her and I just
really wanted to talk to her and blah blah blah.
My mother did not fess up. Oh wow.
And so I got that message back and I'm like, shit.
And then she said, well let's give it a few days, right?
And then later she said, okay, your mother is going to, I mean
she didn't say my mother, but she said she's going to call me
back within a few days. And then it was like, okay,
she's going to call you in a few days and I'm like, oh God.
And then my first cousin signed it off, it said.
Good luck cuz. And so I knew that I was in and
I had sent her all kinds of information of how I knew and my
DNA test and all of that. And in the meantime she took a
DNA test and found out she wasn't related to the family at
all. Oh my God.
And she ended lying to me a lot throughout the whole ordeal,
which I didn't know my mother died.
But anyway, Long story short, my mother calls me a few days.
So two days went by and few means too, doesn't it?
Well, if you look it up in the dictionary, it doesn't mean to.
It has no real meaning. And so, my God, this is so
awful. You know, I was walking around,
I had, I had my computer set up to report.
I had my phone in my pocket the whole time.
I had somebody call me to see how far I could walk away from
my computer and get back at the same time.
This went on for days. Oh my.
Gosh. And finally I was singing with a
band and I told my band I wasn't able to come.
I was waiting on this call and they convinced me and they said
it's all right, let her call, you can call her back.
I said no, no, no, no. Anyway, they convinced me and so
I got my car, I was backing up and all of a sudden the phone
rings and it's from Florida and I knew she was in Florida at
this point. Oh my God.
Oh, no. There's a code on the laundry
door. I had to get in.
I punched the code and I'm running in and I get as far as
my counter in my kitchen. I'm like, I'm not going to make
it. I'm not going to make it in
time. And then I I answered the phone.
I said as demure as I could. Hello.
And there was no response. And I'm like, hello, anybody
there? And there was no response.
And I thought, oh God, I'd had so many robo calls because I was
taking calls from any number, right.
I didn't know where she'd call from.
And then I finally said hello, You're not about to hang up.
Look down, and my phone sound is off.
You're on mute, I was. So prepared for this, I was so
prepared. And I, you know, turn it on
again. And the first thing I heard is
this is your mommy. That's a spoiler alert, But
yeah, that just blew me away. We had a long conversation.
I learned so much and it was like listening to myself talk.
It was like my voice, my laugh. I'd never had mirroring before
in my life. Yeah, that was just outrageous.
It was so exciting to be able to feel that connection.
Yeah, and the only way she talked to me to begin with is to
my first cousin, who didn't turn out to be my first cousin.
I'd agreed to be a secret to the family.
How did that land for you so? I told her I really owned hard,
but I'd do anything. I mean, by this time I had her
address and she if she wasn't going to, I mean I was packed.
I was going to go down there. I would just like pull up in
front of the house and say, oh, my card died, I need to call
AAA. Can you help me?
You know, anything? I had all these scenarios in my
mind of all the different things I could do, but there was no way
I was not going to see this person.
She was 94. Well.
To my friends and said, why are you doing this?
You know, she's probably dead. I'm like, don't ever, ever tell
her to talk to you anything. I act, It's devastating.
Yeah, I was determined and I knew where she lived and I knew
she was still alive and I was going.
So you talk about, you know, what you were going to call her.
What did you end up calling her and why?
How did you figure out what to call her?
Cuz I know that's such a difficult thing, and I don't
think a lot of adoptees think about that when they're
searching. And then all of a sudden you
find this person, then you're like, what am I gonna even call
you? Right.
And even talking to my quote first cousin, it's like, do I
say my mother? Do I say your What do I say?
Until I went to a slew of names and I just nothing seemed right.
I wrote songs about a few of them too.
You know, songs of my mother I still didn't know.
And and so when I made that first conversation with her when
that happened and sacred call I asked her, I said, well, I I
don't even know what to call you.
What can I call you? And I threw out a whole bunch.
He said you can call me whatever you want.
And I said, well, I did look up the word mother, and it said,
let me see if I can remember the person that raised you.
Well, she didn't raise me, really, a person that gave birth
to you, But she did give birth to me.
And the other was something about slimy goop of some kind.
I think it's like the mother of fermentation.
Yes. Something I thought.
She's not that I hope so. Anyway, I thought mother was OK
to use. And not to disrespect the mother
that raised me, I'm like, OK and and her first name started with
an M I'm still not saying who she really is because I vowed
secrecy. But so I will tell you her first
name, and I have not said this anywhere in the book.
I call her Marilyn. Her real name was Mary.
So many Mary's had an Angel Mary and a mother Mary.
And there was Mother Mary looking for me.
It's like, oh, boy. So it was Mother Mary.
And I thought, well, not to espouse that because I'm
supposed to be a secret. Then I said, well, how about
Eminem, her Mother Mary? Isn't that a sweet one?
And she loved it, so she became Eminem, or just MM.
And so yeah. She was by Eminem.
Every time we talked on the phone or I'd call her, it was
like, hey, Eminem and she would laugh like I do hysterically.
We were amazingly alike. Yeah, isn't that crazy?
It is crazy. What was it like for you?
And you finally did see her for the first time.
I I had to be a secret, and so she finally let me come and see
her. And she wanted me to stay at her
house and she, she's very clean. Like, demeanor.
I said, well, I'm supposed to be a secret, but if somebody comes
and she goes, don't worry, nobody's going to know.
I'll take care of that. She's in control, right.
So I went a lot happened on the way to get there.
That was just, I was just an emotional basket case attempting
to get there. And when I got there, I picked
up red roses and. I pulled up to her house and and
texted her that I was I was there and the garage doors
opened and there she is. She's got a red baseball cap
caught to the side of her head and and she's like motioning me
to park by her new car. And I had my 2000 old CRV that's
full of stickers and real hippie looking.
And I I pulled her in next to that and and got out and brought
her the roses. And she said how did you know
red roses were my favorite? And I said, well, we have.
Ways of making these things work.
And I've come a long way and I want a big hug and so we hugged.
I did not want that hug to end. She pulled away pretty, pretty
quick and she just spun around going into the house and there's
a sign on the top of the door that said if you forgot to bring
the wine, go home. All these pictures I've seen in
her on Facebook, she had a cocktail on her hand.
And so I brought red wine, white wine, whatever.
I said I got the wine no problem.
So we were fighting within 10 minutes.
We're going to have coffee first, right?
And so I got up to try and make coffee and she goes just sit
down, you know, she was really bossy.
And she goes, just get a cup. And so I I picked out a cup that
was like a queen castle. And I said I'm going to take the
queen castle. And she goes, well, you know,
I'm queen. Wow, I.
Said. Oh, really?
What so AM? I.
Oh no, we're going to fight. So I finally conceded to be the
Princess. She's very feisty.
Very. I jump up and bring her picture
over here, what she looked like when I met her.
She's young. Nobody could believe she was the
age she was. She lived alone, independent,
like me. Just amazing.
So it was a wonderful time. I stayed with her a week.
She made sure it came and I found out she was a liar at the
same time. Oh, wow.
My my brother would call every evening, you know, And then
after. I actually got to meet them.
Yours siblings have siblings. Yeah, after we'd had a
relationship for a while, It's like I said, I just so much
would like to meet my siblings. But you still couldn't tell him
that you guys were related, no? Had to be a secret and so it's
good about keeping the secret. And she threw a party so all
these people came to the party, including my siblings and I.
Supposingly was a friend from a long time ago that used to live
there. That wasn't the story we'd come
up with, but that's what she threw out, which blew me away at
the party because all of a sudden she's changing our story.
Yeah, yeah. But I posed as a photographer.
Wow. That was my idea, because then I
could get photos of everybody did.
I got all these photos and it was just the most bizarre day of
my life, I guess. Good thing I had an acting
career. Right.
Because to play play that role in that kind of situation.
I mean, I did break down at one point and I had to run out the
back door and lay on the grass and just weep.
It happened when my my brother came late and left early.
And his wife had invited us to go to some party, had invited me
and of course I didn't want to leave my mother and any of that.
And so I declined. But then they left early and
that's when it happened. They were leaving.
I just. Yeah.
The eruption. So I had to leave really quick
because I knew there was no way to contain my emotions.
Yeah. He asked me when I finally came
back in. He said.
Are you alright? So yeah.
I just had a phone call I had to take, You know, I was just, you
know, anything, just to protect my mother, if she'd been great
in letting me meet everybody. And but that was like extreme.
Yeah. I don't know how I got through
it. If I had an acting career.
Yeah, I don't. Yeah, yeah.
It was beyond emotional. So your birth mother didn't have
any details about your birth. And do you even know, like your
birthday, your real birthday? No.
My adoption papers were listed as four years later.
Four years. Yeah, I I found a receipt, you
know, to an attorney for my purchase, so to speak.
And that was four years later and it's like, wait a minute.
But my birth certificate that I finally got, that was made-up by
my parents, said four years earlier.
So that was a twist and a turn. Yeah, we're not talking days.
We're talking years. I know that's crazy.
So you don't even know how old you are.
Really. My brother swears I'm four years
older than I'm not four years younger than, but and.
And he's probably right. But damned if I know.
The records are all screwed up. Yeah, but even on your original
birth certificate, things you know like the names were messed.
I just I don't understand how a birth certificate can be
falsified when this is a document that you used to tell
legally certified document to tell who you are.
To. Prove who you are and they could
put anything they want on there. There's four birth certificates
in my search that are lies. Two or mine.
One is my father's that I finally found.
And then one was my first cousin.
She tested because I don't know if she really believed me and
found out. You know, she calls me and she
goes, you know, I did a DNA test and you don't come up at all.
I'm like, you might be writing a book too.
She made me promise not to tell anybody.
There was like. You know, I was under a pile of
secrets to be able to navigate. How deep does this go?
It's a lineage deepness, too. Once I found my mother, I threw
a big party. It was my first birthday party,
and I had all my friends dressed as their own kid, and it was
hysterical. We had so much.
My mother wouldn't come, of course, but she.
She said, what do you want for your birthday?
I said I want my birth certificate.
I said, will you fill out these forms?
I already had them. So she filled out the forms.
We went down, she had it notarized and sent it off to
Florida Vital Statistics. A few weeks later, I get the
message back, says Oh yeah, you filled out all the forms right?
But that's not your mother's name on your birth certificate.
She. Probably didn't remember what
she put. So she lied on the birth
certificate. But then I had a big aha, it's
like, wait a minute, my adoption papers referred to me as infant
Hanson, right? And I asked my mother, I said,
well, my birth father. And she didn't tell me who he
was for months. Oh, I I forgot.
I'll tell you later, blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
So I asked her, I said, well, is my father A Hanson?
Is that his name? And then I told her the story of
finding my papers and that I was as infant Hanson.
And I said was my father Hanson. And she goes, oh, he was so
handsome. You wouldn't believe that.
No, no. Yeah.
So told me she didn't know any Hansons had no idea.
After a while it dawned on me after I had a rejection from
Florida vital statistics that. Maybe the name of my adoption
paper, Hanson is it? And I said, OK, I want you to
sign this again and sign this name and we'll go notarize it.
So you're going to be lying under bridge?
Yeah, sure. She'll do it.
We go down. They didn't even look at it
because they knew her. And so I sent it off and I told
her I said she loved to gamble. We would always get lottery
tickets on this. She went to Vegas every year and
I found out why later. So I bet her 100 bucks.
That. That's that.
She had lied and used that name, so she made the bet with me.
Sure enough, bingo. I got my second birth
certificate, which is my original birth certificate,
which of course is written around here, not for
identification, that kind of stuff.
They write that on that and and she had no idea.
She goes, I'm sure I didn't do that.
Well. Yeah, there was a lot on that.
Birth and I did. That was a lie.
Right. So did you ever get to come out
of you didn't? Did you ever get to not be a
secret with your siblings? Yes, when she passed, right
before she passed, well, she she had a a stroke when in the
hospital. I've been going down to see her
a lot and then COVID hit and then when COVID hit, you know,
it's like she's old, I'm, I haven't had a shot.
I don't know. And so anyway.
She went into the hospital, she had a car wreck.
Then she went to hospital and I was on my way to go see her.
I wanted to take care of her and my first cousin, who is not
really my first cousin, said, Oh no, don't go because she has a
caregiver coming and now the the caregiver the following day
after she went, got COVID. Everybody was in quarantine,
right? So I wasn't able to go.
And so I was calling all the time.
And and then I called one day and, you know, the caregiver
answers and gave my mom the phone.
And my mom said, oh, it's my daughter.
I said, hey, I thought it was a secret.
And she goes, oh, there's no secrets anymore.
I was so excited. I called my first cousin.
Yeah. And older.
And she's like, oh, no, she's out of her mind.
She won't remember that the next minute.
Don't you dare do that. Blah, blah, blah.
And she was mean. And I thought, that's weird.
I later found out that my first cousin had lied to me for four
years and had told my sister. I think it's all about.
So your sister knew. Yeah, And I never knew she knew.
Yeah, I never knew she knew my. Gosh, wow.
And then my brother was told. The day after my mother passed,
my sister flippantly said. And I talk to him every week
now. So it's funny, I'm I'm friends
with my brothers and both my sisters.
There's no communication. And I totally thought it'd be
the other way around. I'm passionate.
Well, maybe not these days. I don't know.
Many decades of searching, wondering, looking.
Know where it came from. Yeah, that's all you wanted.
It's just crazy. But The thing is, is that that
search led me into numerous avenues with the Denisovan DNA
and all of the traveling I did and working with these psychics.
Oh, and by the way, I don't know if I even put that in my book.
One of the detectives that was hired early on, he actually told
me the right name. Really.
Of your mom. Yep, Yep.
The name that was on my birth certificate, That was a lot.
Oh wow. And when he told me that, and
it's like later, I'm trying to do all this searching and match
it up and nothing matched up. So I assumed it was a lie.
And he had said, well, I'm able to get into some files that
nobody else can. And I thought, well, I figured
I'd been taken again. Yeah, and jeez, he was telling
the truth. But the truth of what was on my
birth certificate didn't match up with any kind of DNA, so
there was nowhere to go. And that was like, Oh my God, I
knew that decades ago, but what do you do with it?
Yeah. So nothing's adding up.
What are you going to do? So what helped you the most in
understanding your adoption? I think what helped me the most
of understanding my adoption. Is going way out on a limb.
I ended up in working with indigenous elders and shamans
and this type of thing and I'm just wanting people to know the
wisdom of our other cultures and to work with some of these
incredible people. And during that time I would
have visions and I did 2 ayahuasca ceremonies and suicide
mushrooms and. Just altering natural
experiments, working with real shamans.
Those were the things that opened me up.
And then I ended up going to India for two weeks, throwing my
return ticket away and staying 11 years and all that I learned
about karma. I mean, the karma is incredible.
And I realized that this was my karma.
Hard to believe, but I believe that we all choose when we're
coming into this lifetime. I totally believe in
reincarnation. And I totally believe that, you
know, once we pass, we go through this whole thing where
we see our whole lives and know where we want to change things,
where we want to grow, what needs to happen, how our over
soul is working together. Because I do believe that we
come back into some of the same families and I was told that by
a St. in India that didn't know anything about me.
They told me I was picked up by the same parents that I had in
this life in Varanasi. They picked me up on the streets
and there it was, that I would have the same parents to raise
me in both of these lives. And so who knows?
I don't know. I I just know that I totally
believe that I take responsibility for coming in to
this world and how I did it. And I totally believe I chose my
genes and my adopted parents from what was available.
And that's pretty far out to say because.
You know, there's so much trauma and adoption and there's so much
trauma. I mean, all the books I've read
on from adoptees and then there's pretty much all about
the trauma and how horrible it is and, you know, things you can
do to get out of the trauma. And it's like, yes, there's all
of that, but there's also a different perspective that I'm
presenting in my book, and I'm hoping that that will help some
adoptees be able to. Kind of get a new perspective,
or at least give it a chance. Yeah, yeah, I know there's a lot
of adoptees that get angry saying I would never choose to
have this trauma. Why would I choose that?
You know? So I think they're just not
open. And ready to hear that message,
but I totally agree with you 100% on everything you just
said. It's.
Hard to say to somebody who's a pelagic or anything like that,
but we don't know what somebody's Karmit is from a
previous life. There's no way that we can
judge. All we can do is take
responsibility for our own lives.
And for me, I mean, I started the first permaculturally
designed echo village of North America.
I've done numerous things and it had I been attached and had a
lot of attachments or family or had children, I never have been
able to do the things that I've been called to do.
So in many ways, it served me well of a time.
I realized what was going on and kind of.
Got out of that bug. Well, that kind of gives me a
segue into my next question. At one point in your book, you
were with the Shaman where you drank some medicine and a
ceremony, and you said, overcome with gratefulness, a thought
arose that I had chosen my path and that my mother allowed me to
be free from attachments. So what did you mean by that?
Your mother allowed you to be free from attachments?
If I had stayed with my birth mother, if she hadn't given me
up, it would have been a different life.
It would have been a different life.
I would have been super attached to the family.
I'm pretty assuming that. And that she actually told me
that, too. She goes, you wouldn't have this
kind of life if you've been raised with me.
I would have never let you go out of the.
I would have never let you do any of that.
And so being able to be free, my mother and father who adopted me
were very old. They died when I was very young.
So and I never really bonded there either, without the
bonding and without the attachments.
I was able to go Full Monty on visions or whatever I wanted to
do in my life and had I had attachments to family, I'd never
be able to do that. And when I was in India, you
know that's one of the teachings they have and my teacher in
India actually said it's easier for.
Indians and people like that to be able to go into a state of
enlightenment, it's not even a state, right?
It's harder for Indians to do actually, because they are so
attached to family. Family in India is big thing,
you know, in America. And he goes, yeah, in America
you don't like your husband, just go off and find another
one, right. So there's not that deep of a
bond in family in America. Typically as there is in India.
And so one of the key things on a step of awareness is to let go
of your attachments. And so when I was there, I'm
like, oh, you mean I've been trying to bond with people, I've
been to classes on how to bond, I've tried to hang out with
people. I've done all these things and
I've never been successful in relationships.
Do you mean I was right all along?
I don't have to do that. Wow, that's that was such an
awakening to me that it might not be as as serious as an issue
as I thought I was. Going to say, you published a
book called 108 Insights which seemed to kind of be a
compilation of teachings from this Indian guru that you spent
a lot of time with and had a quite a profound influence on
your life. And.
And you were reading that book and you said in your book it was
as if he were speaking to me for the first time.
Perform the scenes of your life like an actress who never
forgets or true identity. Although the costumes and scenes
of your life will change your you yourself are changeless.
And I love that because I always say too that I was a Academy
Awardwinning actress in my own life for years.
So that's saying, although the costumes and scenes of your life
will change, you yourself are changeless.
What do you believe about us being changeless?
It's like our basics that we're born into the world with don't
change. We have total freedom to choose
what we do in this life. I believe we also have an innate
core that guides us according to why we came back into this
planet and the life that we're choosing.
So as far as you know, when we're born into the world, we
have no idea. That's all gone, except for some
enlightened masters. I've seen them in India.
A child like 3 years old remembers this piece that's in
the house and we'll talk about it and wow, so I've seen it in
action. And so there are a few people
that come in understanding that they're reincarnated or they
remember their best slice, but most of us don't.
Got the question. About being changeless.
Yeah, that our core is changeless.
We are soul, that is us. We are not this physical being
and we're all vibration. I mean, science has proven it
and we have the ability to create.
Our basic nature is changeless. We don't change that's there.
That is our soul. So it's our soul.
I also believe that we don't and reincarnate with our full soul.
So we bring in what we need and part of our soul remains in this
connection. And that's when people say, oh,
I'm speaking to my higher self or my this is typically what I
believe is their their soul. Yeah, their higher soul.
What is Sophology? Talk about sophology.
In your book, what is? That I made the word up.
I know chapter or yeah, it's a part of my book and I looked it
up after I started using it. It's not in a dictionary but
it's like ontology. I've always called myself an
ontologist and I put it on my passport.
Nobody asked me cuz I don't know what it is.
Typically, but an ontologist is, it's the study of bigness and to
me that's it. And selfology to me is kind of
the same thing. It's like the study of the self.
You're going to get into it. Like don't we all ask like who
am I, what am I doing here? And so that I I call selfology
the study of the self. And understanding not only for
me, my search took me deeper than who am I?
It led me into just so many areas of life of wait a minute,
we've been lied to our whole lives.
The mirror is real. Atlantis is real.
The spaceships and all of the, you know there.
There's so many. Text of all these different
religions. I studied every kind of religion
for a while, thinking, oh, well, maybe that'll help me figure
things out. Then I was philosophy.
Then I came back to theater. It's like, yeah, yeah, it's all
in Lila, it's all the Maya, It's all the illusion.
So, you know, we're only actors walking across a state.
That's it. It's a stage of our of our
existence or our souls path. I totally believe that.
So you are quite the manifester. You want to tell us what your
secret is? My mother, actually that raised
me, was a great manifester. So she taught me how to manifest
my dreams. And one of the things is I
learned early in life is never doubt yourself.
If you have doubt within yourself, then the manifestation
is going to be stunted. You have to have.
A clear vision or a purpose, and you go laser beam towards it in
the best way that you can, but you drop any doubts.
You know, I'm writing my book and I'm like, Oh no, I don't
like that part. That's not good.
It's good. It's all right.
You know, like I can do that. Everything you do, you need to
do because it's out of your passion.
Passion will guide you. It'll lead you to the truth and
the areas you want to go in, but you can not doubt yourself.
And one of the things is one of my favorite quotes is from a
little book called Illusion and I read this decades ago and the
quote is argue for your limitations and sure enough
they're yours. So I do not use the word can't.
I don't like the words could put should.
They're wishy washy and what we speak is even more powerful than
what we think you're thinking can really mess you up.
And if you speak it too much less saying it, then if you give
out negative energy, that's what you're going to get.
And you know it's proven, it's it's proven that if you say I
love this water, I'm drying a heart on my water bottle.
Going to be so good for you to drink?
Yeah, like smash it on the ground and say yeah, I don't
want to drink water, I want a beer or something.
Yet you know that water is not going to be healthy for you
because you have put that energy into it.
This is proven already, the Mystics and the ancients.
Have told us this. So the great thing about my
search is that it took me there. It took me into putting weaving
together all these different religions and ancient texts and
weaving them back together and seeing what the truth really is.
And it took me around the world too, and everywhere.
Yeah, and. That's so cool, Yeah.
Have a real understanding of that.
Now that really, I mean talk about coming out of the fog.
It was just the adoptee wanting to know who I am coming out of
the fog. But me as a human being
exploring Ancients, it's like even if I'm a Denisovan, so
right. Interesting.
So even if I did know who my parents were, I didn't know
MyHeritage. So I had to go deeper and deeper
and deeper. Hard to believe anybody would
have gone to the extremes I did to find out the truth of who my
biological family is. Right.
And my father, he he was even harder to find.
She did made the name finally right.
He made the name, but nothing matched up on my DNA.
Right. Go.
My God, this is terrible. That went on for years after I
met her. And then all of a sudden one day
I got a first cousin mansion, ancestry and that to be my half
sister. I got in touch immediately.
Her husband put me through all kinds of stuff to be able to
talk to her anyway. But what I found out is that the
reason nothing matched is that my father was also a taunt.
That made it, yeah. That's another whole, whole
story. About my father and what
happened with that family. Well, I could talk for hours
with you about so many things, white feathers and just all
kinds of things, but I would like to close by asking you to
tell us something you would like struggling adoptees to know.
Yeah. What I would like them to know
is that there are avenues to explore that are beyond the
physical. There are avenues to explore
that can open up the reality of who we are, who you are, who I
am, and that that is an Ave. to pursue, especially if you are in
trauma. The trauma is real.
There's no doubt about that trauma.
Being able to recognize that you have the trauma and where it's
from is big. That's half of the battle.
Once you recognize you have the trauma because of being taken
from your mother at birth or being put in an orphanage or
being put in a foster care, once you recognize that the issues
that you're having today are related to that, then you have
emotional intelligence to be able to look in a different way
with a different perspective and not be under the the weight of
the trauma. Because you have emotional
intelligence and that's what needs to be used.
And sometimes when you get to that place where you realize, Oh
my God, I've fainted all my life because of my birth, Oh my God,
I was an epileptic because of that of the hospital experience.
Oh my God, All these things that may happen, those are things
that happened to me, but all those things that happened, now,
you know the reason behind it. You may not know all the
details, but you know the reason these are happening in your life
and to be able to move beyond that, I mean, come on.
Even today in in therapy, they're using psilocybin,
they're using, you know, marijuana, they're using a lot
of alternative means and they're finding, hey, this works because
it cuts through your blockages. And opened you up to a new
awareness and that was one of the best things I ever did and
it really, really helped. And you know, I still do it from
time to time. As a refresher, if you know I'm
not moving in a totally positive direction, I will use that as my
ally to assist me and only something totally natural.
Psychotherapist can give it to you now.
I've never been to a psychotherapist, but I didn't go
to that one retreat in the Virgin Islands and that really
helped. So that and also connect with
other adoptees, read adoptee stories, read my book.
You know, my book is here. I got my first proof back
yesterday. I love the cover.
Yeah, it's a masquerade because that was my thing, you know?
So tell us how to. Find your book Find you.
Are you on social media? We'll put all the links in the
show notes. But how do we connect?
Yeah, I'm on Instagram and I am on Facebook as an author, and
then I'm also on Facebook as my personal site.
Then I want people to go to my author site because that's kind
of new. It's not been built up, but I
post there all the time, at least a couple times a week, and
I have a website up. Valerienaman.com I've written
story songs that go along with the book and then the audio
book. I just have one more chapter to
record and that'll be done because they used to be a
voiceover artist, so I did that. So the book, ebook and audio
book is available on pre launch for at least the next week or
two on my website and then the launch itself is August 30th.
And that is the full blue moon in August.
So brightest moon of the year. So if anybody's near Asheville,
NC invites you to my party brought me a message in my
emails on the website. You can do a Let's Connect thing
and get that. You can also download freebies
of my audio book. And read a chapter of my book on
there. And then you can sign up.
Give me your e-mail so I can let you know what's going on and you
will get freebies. There's freebies you can choose
from. So that's the best way to
connect with me. OK, awesome.
I think you should start retreats.
Healing retreats. I thought about that.
Karma retreats or something. I'm working on two more books
too so. Yeah, a lot going on.
I have goats and chickens and honey bees and, you know, a lot
going on. You sound like me.
When you feel like you could do anything.
There's so much that you could do.
And yeah, you know, it's just hard not to put your hand in a
ton of different things, but oh. Yeah, I'm spinning so many
plates. When I was going I had a big
poster covering the entire part of my inside of my bedroom door
that said. Always take home more than you
can, or you'll never do all that you can do.
I'll remember when I'm feeling overwhelmed.
Yeah, you and I are a lot of liking that one.
Yeah, you know, and if the shoe fits, if you're stuck in a rat,
you're not growing. You got to turn that shoe off.
It's true. Do something out of the
ordinary. It's going to shift your
perspective. That's what they call it, and
some of the shamanic works of Don Juan.
Carlos, Costanana stuff, it's called a shift in your
assemblage point. So if you've been stuck like in
trauma or something like that, really need a shift in the
assemblage point that you're operating from and like that
Fernandofty is really hard to dislodge and to move into
different directions. So getting help and some of the
ways that I've described I think is a great way to move forward.
Yeah, we get comfortable. Even though it's an
uncomfortable feeling. It's what we always known.
So it's our comfort zone. Thank you for coming on the show
today, Valerie. I really enjoyed it.
Me too. Me too.
Thanks. I wish all the adoptee success
in moving through out of the fog.
If you're out of the fog, share it with people.
Write about it. Help our brothers and sisters.
We are a tribe. We are a big tribe.
Big love. Wow.
Just wow. Have you ever heard an adoptee
say that their parents told them that they came from monkeys?
Now, to most children, they would probably be petrified if
their parents told them that. But Valerie, it didn't phase
her. She thought it was pretty cool.
And there is just so much more in this book that we did not
even cover about her life, just her life in general.
Not even talking about adoption. There's just so many things.
Her life is a wild ride, her adoption story is a wild ride
and she is just a kick in the pants.
I love Valerie and ever since I knew that I was going to be
talking to her for the podcast, I keep hearing that song come on
over Valerie. And seeing white feathers and
just all kinds of synchronicities with her.
So I really do hope that at some point I get to meet her in
person but find her on social media.
I have all her links in the show notes.
Her website is also in the show notes.
Get the book. Read the book.
If you can find a book signing that Valerie is at, go to it and
meet her. She is such a fun person.
So many things happening here at Mind Your own Karma.
It is almost time for our 100th episode.
Can you believe it? None of this would have been
possible without all of you listening out there.
So thank you so much for listening.
If you haven't rated and reviewed the podcast, please do
so on your listening platform. If you are looking for ways to
support this podcast, that is 1 great way to do it.
Other ways Share the podcast on your social platforms or share
it with another adoptee or someone in the constellation.
Another way is send me an e-mail and let me know how this podcast
has changed your life or what you have learned.
After almost a year and a half of podcasting, sometimes I want
to tap the mic and say is anybody out there listening even
though I know they are. It's nice to hear from the
listeners. It's great encouragement for me.
So that's another way that you can help support the podcast is
support me and encourage me. Let me know you're out there and
let me know you're listening. Lastly, as always, you can Share
your story on the podcast. So drop me a line at my e-mail,
mind your own karma.com, go to my website, become part of the
Karma crew, send me a note there, and let's get your story
on the podcast. The last thing I want to mention
is I am now taking clients for my somatic mindful guided
imagery practice. I have about 8 more weeks of
instruction before I am totally certified, so I am seeing
clients for a discounted rate until September 1st.
I'm also giving adoptees and anyone in the constellation a
20% discount right now. Until the 1st, so book an
appointment with me. I do 15 to 20 minute discovery
calls that are free. If you're interested, please get
in touch with me and let's see if SMGI is part of your healing
combination. I think I have mentioned all the
things I was supposed to mention in this outro.
So as always, take what you need and leave what you don't.
And always remember to mind your own karma.
I'll see you next time.