1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,100 Hey there. It's Melissa. 2 00:00:01,100 --> 00:00:04,700 Brunetti and welcome to the mind your own Karma podcast. 3 00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:18,700 Hey, their karma crew, thanks for joining me on another week 4 00:00:18,700 --> 00:00:20,500 of mind. Your own Karma. 5 00:00:20,500 --> 00:00:24,800 I have a special guest today. She is an adoptee and she 6 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,500 contacted me as a fan of mind, your own Karma. 7 00:00:28,500 --> 00:00:32,500 And I talked her into coming on the show and telling her story. 8 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,900 Let me tell you a little bit about Christine famous. 9 00:00:36,300 --> 00:00:39,600 Christine is a mother of three and a grandmother of seven. 10 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,500 She was born and adopted in De and grew up with a younger 11 00:00:43,500 --> 00:00:46,900 brother who was also adopted. She works in the medical field 12 00:00:46,900 --> 00:00:49,900 and love showing empathy and caring to her patients. 13 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,000 I hope you're ready to enjoy Christine story. 14 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,500 Christine, welcome to the show. Hey there. 15 00:00:57,500 --> 00:00:59,200 How are you? I'm good. 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:00,900 I'm so glad you're coming on today. 17 00:01:01,700 --> 00:01:03,100 Thank you. Ma'am. 18 00:01:03,100 --> 00:01:06,800 Going to jump right in. And let's start with what, you 19 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,800 know, about the circumstances of your adoption, okay? 20 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:17,400 I was born in Florida and adopted by a couple in Florida, 21 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,600 but my birth mother and all the rest of my birth family is in 22 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:26,200 Maine. So as far as what I can gather 23 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,100 my birth mother and father were having an affair, he was 24 00:01:31,100 --> 00:01:35,500 married. And for whatever reason, she 25 00:01:35,500 --> 00:01:41,100 doesn't want to share with me, she was going to give away the 26 00:01:41,100 --> 00:01:43,700 baby. So, I don't know how she ended 27 00:01:43,700 --> 00:01:46,000 up going all the way to Florida, but she did. 28 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:51,600 And I was adopted by a couple in their early 30s. 29 00:01:52,500 --> 00:02:00,400 Who gave me a great last name? Yeah, they did My adoptive 30 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,600 father did not want children. He's very blunt about that. 31 00:02:06,700 --> 00:02:10,100 He ended his first marriage because the woman that he was 32 00:02:10,100 --> 00:02:12,200 married to wanted children and he did not. 33 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:17,900 So, I don't know what my adopted mother did to make him change 34 00:02:17,900 --> 00:02:21,600 his mind. But they ended up adopting two 35 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,300 kids. I was the first one and then 36 00:02:23,300 --> 00:02:25,700 five years later. They adopted my little brother 37 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,500 Curtis. Okay. 38 00:02:27,500 --> 00:02:29,800 So somehow she talked him into. Yeah. 39 00:02:29,900 --> 00:02:34,100 Adopting kids so they can have kids or would did they just want 40 00:02:34,100 --> 00:02:37,900 to adopt? She couldn't have kids. 41 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:43,000 Okay, but she definitely wanted kids and I don't know whether 42 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,300 they discussed it before their marriage or not, but they were 43 00:02:47,300 --> 00:02:50,000 married for about three years. And before they adopted me. 44 00:02:50,500 --> 00:02:53,600 Okay so what was it? Like growing up in your adoptive 45 00:02:53,600 --> 00:03:00,100 family, then over the Dynamics of that it was not very 46 00:03:00,100 --> 00:03:04,000 pleasant. I've don't have any kind of 47 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:08,000 memories about. I wasn't physically abused. 48 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:13,200 My parents barely spanked Me, My adoptive father, never spanked 49 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:18,500 me, but my adopted mother was very adamant. 50 00:03:18,700 --> 00:03:23,700 That I do things the way she wanted them so she would, you 51 00:03:23,700 --> 00:03:30,100 know, give her ideas, her views, her opinions on life were the 52 00:03:30,100 --> 00:03:33,700 way I should be, you know, it was like she had a little doll 53 00:03:33,700 --> 00:03:36,300 that you was going to mold or whatever. 54 00:03:36,300 --> 00:03:41,000 I don't know what she expected. Adopting, a baby would be but I 55 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,200 guess she thought she was going to get a little doll that would 56 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,300 grow up. Just like her and like all the 57 00:03:45,300 --> 00:03:47,700 things that she liked and wanted to do all the things that she 58 00:03:47,700 --> 00:03:50,900 wanted it do. Do as she specifically, they 59 00:03:50,900 --> 00:03:53,600 picked us out because I had brown hair and brown eyes, just 60 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:55,000 like her. Hmm. 61 00:03:55,100 --> 00:03:57,700 And then, when they adopted my little brother, they picked out 62 00:03:57,700 --> 00:04:00,100 a little boy, that had blonde hair and blue eyes, like my 63 00:04:00,100 --> 00:04:06,100 adopted Dad, okay? So it sounds like your mom was 64 00:04:06,100 --> 00:04:08,300 the one that was Hands-On. And was your dad? 65 00:04:08,300 --> 00:04:11,900 Like, not really Hands-On with you guys as kids. 66 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:17,800 No, he wasn't. We did a lot of activities but 67 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,000 we did Activities that they wanted to do as adults. 68 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:27,900 My parents always had boats. And so on the weekends, we would 69 00:04:28,300 --> 00:04:30,300 go out on the boat. We would stay for the whole 70 00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:34,100 weekend, cruise, and up, and down, up and down, up and down 71 00:04:34,100 --> 00:04:36,500 up and down. And I mean, we got to go 72 00:04:36,500 --> 00:04:39,700 swimming and we had our own little rubber Zodiac boat. 73 00:04:39,700 --> 00:04:43,500 We could take that and, you know, go off on her own, but and 74 00:04:43,500 --> 00:04:45,700 I played Sports and all that kind of stuff. 75 00:04:45,700 --> 00:04:48,400 But my parents had a lot of money. 76 00:04:48,500 --> 00:04:54,200 Money a lot of money and it wasn't like share the wealth. 77 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,100 You know, it wasn't like, oh, well, if you do chores, will 78 00:04:57,100 --> 00:04:58,900 give you x amount of that kind of stuff. 79 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,300 It wasn't like that. And you know, when I was growing 80 00:05:02,300 --> 00:05:07,400 up, I was very much when I learned the term in the fog. 81 00:05:07,500 --> 00:05:13,600 Looks like that is so literal, it is so accurate and so literal 82 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,400 because I can remember like snapshots of my childhood but 83 00:05:18,700 --> 00:05:22,700 It's just like little bits and pieces here and there and then I 84 00:05:22,707 --> 00:05:24,700 had a lot of surgery on my head too. 85 00:05:24,900 --> 00:05:31,400 So I don't know if my memory Oddities are from that or from 86 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,300 adoption. Trauma or both. 87 00:05:33,900 --> 00:05:37,900 But it was just there. Literally was like, the whole 88 00:05:37,900 --> 00:05:40,100 first half of my life was in a fog. 89 00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:45,800 It's I really can't describe it. When did you like, you don't 90 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,900 have any memory problems now. It was just Oh no, I definitely 91 00:05:49,900 --> 00:05:51,900 have memory problems. I can't remember what color 92 00:05:51,900 --> 00:06:01,000 underwear, but as far as remembering back, I don't 93 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,800 remember a whole lot of my childhood. 94 00:06:02,900 --> 00:06:07,500 I remember mostly things that were either extremely extremely 95 00:06:07,500 --> 00:06:12,300 happy or extremely bad you want to share any of those. 96 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:18,100 Well I mean I remember what do I remember? 97 00:06:20,900 --> 00:06:25,400 I remember always, you know, my parents have family and we would 98 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,200 always go see the family. I remember my grandmother, my 99 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,000 maternal grandmother very vividly because she lived until 100 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:39,600 I was 22, and she was very Hands-On with me in the 101 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,400 summertime. I would go up to Baltimore and 102 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:48,400 stay with her for a week or two before my parents came up and my 103 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,300 cousin, who's a You're older than me. 104 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,600 He lived up there. It was my uncle's son and his 105 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,100 parents got divorced when he was like seven. 106 00:06:57,100 --> 00:06:59,600 So he stayed with my grandmother, a lot of the time 107 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,900 while she kept him when he got out of school and stuff. 108 00:07:01,900 --> 00:07:06,300 So we would go up there and hang around a lot and I think that's 109 00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:12,500 why I love Baltimore so much because that's where all my, if 110 00:07:12,500 --> 00:07:15,800 I had to put a finger on happy memories, that would be where 111 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,800 they all originated from. Hmm. 112 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,700 That your mom's mom or dad's mom my mom's in Bombay. 113 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,800 Yeah. My dad's mom passed away when I 114 00:07:26,808 --> 00:07:31,200 was five. And I mean, it's like, I kind of 115 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,900 remember things, but it's mostly what people told me happened, 116 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:36,600 you know? Yeah. 117 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,600 I remember sitting on the sink, in the kitchen, because my dad's 118 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,300 mom, she like, very old-fashioned every day. 119 00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:45,300 She was baking with biscuits and bread and all that. 120 00:07:45,500 --> 00:07:48,600 And I remember sitting on the sink, on the countertop, you 121 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:54,600 know, H everywhere. Helping her make biscuits sounds 122 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,600 like you had some good memories though to? 123 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:58,300 Yeah. Am I? 124 00:07:58,700 --> 00:08:01,600 My mother's mother. She always took us to Ocean City 125 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:06,000 to the beach every summer and she would come down to our house 126 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,400 in the wintertime and stay for two or three months because she 127 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,200 loves swimming. And so she would come down and 128 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,000 stay and I'll just always take me swimming. 129 00:08:14,300 --> 00:08:19,100 I love swimming too. Yeah, so looking back. 130 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,000 How do you see adoption affecting you as a child or a 131 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,500 teen? Now that you're looking back as 132 00:08:26,500 --> 00:08:32,200 a child, I can't say too much because, you know, I went along 133 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,000 with that whole party line. Your mom couldn't give you a 134 00:08:36,008 --> 00:08:38,700 good life. So she wanted you to have what 135 00:08:38,700 --> 00:08:40,700 she couldn't give you blah blah blah. 136 00:08:41,799 --> 00:08:45,700 And like I said my parents you know I was able to play sports I 137 00:08:45,700 --> 00:08:49,800 did Ballet and they had boats. I had my own boat for a while. 138 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:55,700 So as a child I didn't seem like adoption was too much of a bad 139 00:08:55,700 --> 00:09:00,700 thing, but when I was like 12 or 13, My adoptive father did tell 140 00:09:00,700 --> 00:09:05,200 me that he didn't want kid that he didn't want to specifically 141 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,600 told me that he did not want to adopt us. 142 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,800 So that was kind of like right between adolescence and starting 143 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,500 to like, boys and all that kind of stuff. 144 00:09:15,900 --> 00:09:20,300 And so that just kind of threw me for a loop because all the 145 00:09:20,300 --> 00:09:24,500 things that I enjoy doing before that time, I put all those to 146 00:09:24,500 --> 00:09:28,800 the side and started focusing on finding somebody that wanted me. 147 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:33,500 And when My adoptive mother had the birds and the bees talk with 148 00:09:33,500 --> 00:09:41,900 me, she made it very plain to me that sex and love were all one 149 00:09:41,900 --> 00:09:45,800 thing and that they were between a husband and a wife. 150 00:09:46,300 --> 00:09:50,300 A mommy and a daddy. And that was look. 151 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,700 And it was all tied up in one, nice neat, little package. 152 00:09:53,700 --> 00:09:55,900 So that's what I was looking for now. 153 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,200 Right? So, how did that conversation go 154 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,200 with your dad? Like how did that even come up 155 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:05,700 that he would say that he was giving me a ride home from 156 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:11,300 school one day and we stopped at Hardee's to have a snack before 157 00:10:11,300 --> 00:10:16,500 dinner because dinnertime in our house was 8:30 if we were Lucky, 158 00:10:16,900 --> 00:10:20,200 really late. So we stopped to get something 159 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,300 to eat and I don't remember how it came up, but I just remember 160 00:10:24,300 --> 00:10:25,600 that. I was sitting in that heart, 161 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,300 he's on East Ocean Boulevard, and that's where he told me that 162 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:34,800 he didn't want us or he initially had not wanted us so 163 00:10:34,900 --> 00:10:39,400 it, did you say anything to him or like, or even shocked? 164 00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:41,200 I can't remember. Yeah. 165 00:10:41,300 --> 00:10:45,300 I really just remember that. Yeah. 166 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,400 And like I said, I mean, you could just draw a line in the 167 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,200 sand where my life completely became different. 168 00:10:54,300 --> 00:10:56,800 Mmm. I mean I just smoking weed all 169 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:02,100 the time every single day and you know, Boy The Boy, The Boy, 170 00:11:02,100 --> 00:11:05,500 The Boy The Boy just always trying to find a boyfriend 171 00:11:05,500 --> 00:11:08,300 because I always wanted I felt like I had to be in that. 172 00:11:08,300 --> 00:11:12,200 Nice neat little relationship package that my adopted mother 173 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,300 described to me because that's how you get somebody to love 174 00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:17,100 you. You know, hmm. 175 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:22,300 So yeah. Unfortunately, yeah. 176 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,600 So after your dad said that you started seeing boys and smoking 177 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:32,400 weed, I was after that. Yes, yeah, yes up until that 178 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,900 point I was still like going to pool parties and running around 179 00:11:36,900 --> 00:11:40,800 with my best friend down by the river and riding horses, and all 180 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,200 that kind of stuff. And it would just all that 181 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,600 stuff. Just gone at that. 182 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,300 Did you ever think about your birth mom and did you ever feel 183 00:11:50,300 --> 00:11:55,200 that abandonment yet? No, I didn't really feel 184 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,500 abandonment. I just felt like I used to 185 00:11:58,500 --> 00:12:02,400 always say, if anybody asked me, if I wanted to look for my birth 186 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,100 mother, I would always say, I would be interested in writing 187 00:12:06,100 --> 00:12:09,700 her a letter just to let her know how I turned out and let 188 00:12:09,700 --> 00:12:11,600 her know that. You know, she made the right 189 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:16,000 choice and I had a good life and I you know, I never went It 190 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,000 hungry and all that kind of stuff. 191 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,800 I always had place to live and all that kind of stuff. 192 00:12:20,900 --> 00:12:23,000 Yeah. So I really like I said, was 193 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,300 just following the adoption party line. 194 00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:27,300 Mmm. Yeah. 195 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,300 So you hadn't even made that correlation about your birth mom 196 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,200 yet and then your nope. They're adopted. 197 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,300 Dad says that to you. Yeah. 198 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,900 And then yeah things kind of start going sideways. 199 00:12:37,900 --> 00:12:42,500 So how, as an adult, did you see that? 200 00:12:42,500 --> 00:12:45,200 Same scenario, just keep playing out. 201 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:51,400 Well, I got out of their house as quick as I could. 202 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:57,700 I found somebody that was dumb enough to get me pregnant so 203 00:12:57,700 --> 00:13:00,800 that I could get married and get out of their house when I was 204 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:05,000 17. And again, going back to that, 205 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,900 you know, nice neat little package. 206 00:13:06,900 --> 00:13:10,900 That was told to me that that's the way to go. 207 00:13:11,100 --> 00:13:14,400 That's what I was aiming for and that's not the way it worked out 208 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:19,000 because the Person that I married was completely in 209 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,700 another culture and another Financial setting, you know, 210 00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:27,400 just everything was different and it wasn't going to be, you 211 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,400 know, this neat little package where I cooked breakfast lunch 212 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,000 and dinner and clean the house and had the baby and you were 213 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,500 going to go out and bring home the bacon. 214 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,400 It didn't work out that way. But that was what I was taught 215 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,400 that life was and yeah, I was very naive. 216 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,400 So yeah. You ever, you ever remember 217 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,800 being told that you were adopted when you were a kid or yeah. 218 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,300 Yeah, yeah, yeah. They my mother her made up this 219 00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:59,600 little bedtime story and so she told me, I forgot that meant to 220 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,400 tell you that earlier, she told me that before we even knew what 221 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,500 she was talking about. She would tell us this little 222 00:14:05,500 --> 00:14:10,100 bedtime story when we were going to sleep about how the mommy and 223 00:14:10,100 --> 00:14:14,500 the daddy couldn't have a baby. And so they went to the adoption 224 00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:18,500 agency to see. Mrs. Brown and you know, mrs. 225 00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:23,300 Brown showed them this, beautiful little baby da da da 226 00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:28,700 and you know, and I was just thinking about this the other 227 00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:31,400 day. One of the things that was in 228 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,100 the little story that I always remember her being, so adamant 229 00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:39,900 about was when we walked into the room and saw you laying rest 230 00:14:39,900 --> 00:14:44,400 of it, you just set your eyes on your dad and you just would not 231 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,600 take your eyes off of him. You just loved him, loved him. 232 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:54,800 And I think about that now. And I think about was she saying 233 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,400 that? Because because she knew that he 234 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:04,500 wasn't like 100% on board, or I don't know for his benefit, 235 00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:08,100 maybe. Yeah, to make it seem like, oh, 236 00:15:08,100 --> 00:15:10,700 look at this baby. She loves you already Chuck's, 237 00:15:11,900 --> 00:15:13,400 right? Yeah. 238 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,700 So going back to adulthood I know you were telling me 239 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:20,500 previously about your last relationship and how you saw 240 00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:24,900 some things that may be correlated to adoption in that 241 00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:32,000 relationship? Yes, I've always had problems. 242 00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:36,100 I don't know if you'd call them attachment issues, but I had 243 00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:42,000 problems feeling, you know, like my ex-husband, we were together 244 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,200 a long time and he was my first boyfriend in high Cool. 245 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,800 But he always told me how much he loved me. 246 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,900 Blah blah. And I may not say I love you 247 00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:56,100 too, but I wasn't like feeling it. 248 00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:59,100 You can hear something and you can know that somebody means it, 249 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,000 but that doesn't mean you feel it. 250 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,400 So the last relationship I had was about eight and a half years 251 00:16:06,900 --> 00:16:13,600 and With that person, that's like the only time that I've 252 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,800 ever felt. Felt it in my life that I felt 253 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:22,200 but I felt somebody loving me and I felt myself loving them 254 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:34,200 but I grew up being a great liar, and I just, I can't 255 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,800 remember a time when I did not lie. 256 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:44,100 I've heard and read that. That's a very defensive measure 257 00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:49,700 protective measure that we use to keep ourselves safe. 258 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,100 And like I said, not remembering a whole lot of my childhood. 259 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:59,800 I don't know if I didn't feel safe, but it's possible that I 260 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,400 didn't. So I did. 261 00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:06,400 A lot of lying. And I felt like I always had to 262 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:11,500 have a safety net a backup, which would be in the guise of a 263 00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:18,200 friend. But you know, I that's something 264 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:23,000 that I've always needed because you know my birth mother gave me 265 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:28,800 up and then My adoptive father didn't really want me even 266 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:33,600 though I grew up thinking he did and then You know boys 267 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,900 boyfriends. Nothing was permanent. 268 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:42,600 You know, nothing was permanent so that backup solution always 269 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:47,000 had to be there because if I don't then I don't have somebody 270 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,600 that wants me. You think that was you or them? 271 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:56,600 Me. Me and I mean, just like in any 272 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:02,600 relationship he was not perfect, he had issues too, but I was the 273 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:09,300 one who would have taken my lies to the grave and in the last 274 00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:12,900 year and a half or two years. As I started stepping out of the 275 00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:17,400 fog, I started looking at all that and acknowledging that and 276 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:22,800 I did spend a few months talking with him after a year and a half 277 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,900 of no contact and tried to come clean. 278 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:34,700 Tried to discuss the issue. Shoes that I'm going through and 279 00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:40,500 that I went through and then I put him through and it just 280 00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:44,000 wasn't. There was no resolution that we 281 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:50,700 could get out of it. So mmm, but it's a life lesson. 282 00:18:52,100 --> 00:18:55,900 It's, it's a life lesson, you know. 283 00:18:55,900 --> 00:18:59,500 I wish there was like a magic age like oh when you turn 28, 284 00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:00,700 you're going to come out of the Fog. 285 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:08,300 Because, you know, that's a long time to 50 years is a long time 286 00:19:08,300 --> 00:19:16,900 to be living in denial and not facing reality and not facing 287 00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:19,100 your fears and your hurts. Yeah. 288 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:26,500 And I know that you had talked about collateral damage, mmm and 289 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:29,700 so, you know, I wish there was only 28 years of collateral 290 00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:34,300 damage instead of 50. But it's okay because the more I 291 00:19:34,300 --> 00:19:39,600 step out and the more things clear and the more I examine 292 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:44,500 things turn them over, look at them, hold them, you know? 293 00:19:46,700 --> 00:19:52,500 Pull them apart then the more positive my Outlook becomes. 294 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,300 Yeah that's so true. I mean at least you come out of 295 00:19:57,300 --> 00:20:01,800 the fog at 50 and you weren't in there any longer than that right 296 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,900 no it seems like the the normal age that people start coming out 297 00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:10,900 of the fog is around 40 and 50 when you have what they call the 298 00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:13,600 midlife crisis, but I like to call it the midlife Awakening. 299 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,600 Yeah. I've A few episodes where, you 300 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,500 know, there were people who were in their 20s. 301 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:30,900 Hmm 20:23 28 maybe early 30s and I've always tried to never have 302 00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:36,100 regrets but that's like one thing that I really really wish 303 00:20:36,100 --> 00:20:38,700 that would have hit me a little bit earlier. 304 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,600 Yeah I think just having these conversations and getting our 305 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,400 stories out there is going to help people come out of the The 306 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,700 fog quicker, you know? Yeah. 307 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:54,100 So did you search for your biological family? 308 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,700 I wanted to search for my biological mother. 309 00:20:58,700 --> 00:21:02,400 When I was in my 30s, I contacted Children's Home 310 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,700 Society which is the agency that I was adopted through and their 311 00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:15,300 search fees were like astronomical to me, $500. 312 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,500 Dollars for the first three hours of searching and then an 313 00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:24,700 additional hundred and fifty dollars for every hour after 314 00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:28,800 that. And of course 1971. 315 00:21:29,500 --> 00:21:32,000 Yeah. Who knows where that box was? 316 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,500 Dang. That was back then. 317 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,000 That's what they're charging. Well this was in the 2000s so in 318 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,000 the 2000's. Yeah, but thing was on computer, 319 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,200 it was all in podcast and stuff so I could just imagine stuff 320 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,200 sitting in a base. Somewhere. 321 00:21:47,300 --> 00:21:53,200 Yeah so I what I did was I kept my contact information up to 322 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,200 date with them just in case she came looking. 323 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,400 For me I went to there was a couple internet sites and stuff 324 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,900 that I put my name in my thing on but I never really got any 325 00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:14,400 hit until I was 42 and when I was 42, I came home real late. 326 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,200 One night I had been out of town. 327 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:22,600 And I took my mail out of my mailbox and I saw the letter and 328 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,800 I knew right away what it was, because they had no other reason 329 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,700 to contact me from Children's Home Society. 330 00:22:29,900 --> 00:22:33,500 Mmm, so I didn't even make it into my apartment. 331 00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:38,800 I said on the steps right and opened up the like cuz I've been 332 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,800 waiting and waiting for this, you know, and really it was only 333 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,000 10 years ago now that I think about it. 334 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,300 But so my birth his mother and I were in contact, they let me 335 00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:50,900 know that she wanted to talk to me. 336 00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:55,400 So I had to provide an email address and then we were allowed 337 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,400 to email each other for a while until we were able to exchange 338 00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:04,000 personal contact information. So, we were in reunions for a 339 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,500 few years and she refused to tell me. 340 00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:12,700 She told me that I had six siblings. 341 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:18,600 Wow, my biological father had passed away about eight years 342 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:24,500 before she contacted me. But I had six siblings for from 343 00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:31,900 his first marriage and two from his third marriage and I was 344 00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:35,600 very, very excited at that, but that was it. 345 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,500 She snapped that shut so quick. She didn't want to tell me the 346 00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:43,500 name. She told me that all of this and 347 00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:46,000 everybody was located in Massachusetts. 348 00:23:46,100 --> 00:23:53,300 Not main I guess to throw me off because she was a paralegal, all 349 00:23:53,300 --> 00:23:56,100 her life. And I you know I asked her 350 00:23:56,100 --> 00:23:59,900 several times to please give me their name and she refused. 351 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:06,200 So, So after about three years of, you know, talking to each 352 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:11,000 other and we did meet once in person, she cut me off because I 353 00:24:11,008 --> 00:24:13,600 told her that I was going to go ahead and search on my own. 354 00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:23,800 Wow, and she called me evil and all kinds of stuff so that was 355 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,600 it. Did she tell you who your father 356 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,000 was? No, she would give no 357 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,700 identifying information. As a matter of fact, from the 358 00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:37,400 time she gave me up, she put on my non-identifying sheet that I 359 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,400 was Italian, that he that his family was all first generation 360 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,700 Italian and they're not, they're all Irish. 361 00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:48,400 I'm Irish and English. What was her reason for 362 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,800 contacting you. If she wasn't going to give you 363 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:56,900 any information or I don't know she We met for lunch one time. 364 00:24:56,900 --> 00:24:59,800 She drove down and she's my daughter and I were living in 365 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,100 Baltimore at the time. My oldest daughter and my oldest 366 00:25:03,100 --> 00:25:06,000 daughter, and my grandson. We went and had lunch with her 367 00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:10,700 down at the harbor and she shook my hand. 368 00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:18,600 It was very weird. It was not like on TV. 369 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,500 No, I was gonna say, wasn't the Disneyland right. 370 00:25:23,500 --> 00:25:25,500 Like on Oprah where they're running across this. 371 00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:32,800 Yeah, she shook my hand. She sat across from me in the 372 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,600 booth. She did allow my daughter to 373 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,800 take a few pictures of her, but she didn't want to take any 374 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,200 pictures of the two of us. Weird. 375 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,000 I can't figure out why she even wanted to contact you. 376 00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:54,600 I feel like she wanted to assuage whatever guilt she might 377 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,200 have had lingering and guilt or whatever. 378 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,200 I don't know. I don't know why she I don't 379 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,600 know why she bothered either. Maybe she told me that she had 380 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,700 three sisters and that I had a bunch of cousins and stuff but 381 00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:12,500 again, no name, no location. So nobody still Nobody knew 382 00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:16,000 about you still. Well, they did know about me. 383 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,200 No, they did. They knew about me all along. 384 00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:26,400 She told them, she told her sisters and my cousins that she 385 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,300 had contacted me and I wanted nothing to do with her or any of 386 00:26:30,300 --> 00:26:32,200 them. Wow. 387 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:38,800 How did you find that out? Well about, I'd say about four 388 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,600 years ago. My oldest daughter. 389 00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:46,000 Did ancestry.com, and I had already done 23andMe, but I 390 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,600 didn't really get any hits. There were a couple people that 391 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,100 were like second cousins, but they actually were my first 392 00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:55,500 cousins. But you know, how the ancestry 393 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,400 things come back? Yeah. 394 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:02,100 So she got her results, and she was so excited. 395 00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:06,300 She said, Mama my, I have all these people on my family thing, 396 00:27:06,300 --> 00:27:11,000 and their name is Bailey and I thought that it was her aunt. 397 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,200 Tim's her aunt was married to a guy named. 398 00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:17,100 Last name was Bailey, and they all were from Jamaica and I 399 00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:19,100 thought that was all them. Mmm. 400 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,400 Nope. She said their white people so 401 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:30,400 they were the two people were my brothers and she had jumped 402 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,800 right into a group chat with them and brought me in on the 403 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,600 group chat. And now all the sudden I'm 404 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,400 talking to two of my brothers. That's crazy. 405 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,300 How did that go? It went. 406 00:27:42,300 --> 00:27:48,000 Well, the two brothers were Dale and Bob, and Bob is the oldest 407 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:56,600 one and Bob is the one that has been the most embracing. 408 00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:01,100 Also my younger sister, Delta. I met her. 409 00:28:01,100 --> 00:28:03,600 And I met Bob both of them last summer. 410 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:09,700 Hmm and so there are three others, my youngest sister 411 00:28:09,900 --> 00:28:12,700 passed away. She was An accident when she was 412 00:28:12,700 --> 00:28:17,200 14. So her name was Shana so there's 413 00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:19,600 four others that I haven't met yet. 414 00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:25,100 Three for something. Like, there's a lot of floating 415 00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:32,100 around, are you in contact? Well, the, the one brother Dale. 416 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,300 We message each other, every once in a while, we're friends 417 00:28:35,300 --> 00:28:40,500 on Facebook and that kind of stuff, there's family reunions 418 00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:43,600 every year in August and I'm going up for that. 419 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,100 I missed it last year because I went, I was there the weekend 420 00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:50,400 before. Now, this year, I'm going with 421 00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:56,400 Without for grandkids and toe myself, good idea. 422 00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:01,900 But it was just you know I my brother gave me his address, 423 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,900 they knew I was coming, they knew I was bringing for little 424 00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:11,500 kids and it was just like they'd known me their whole life. 425 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:18,000 There was just no question about, you know oh well your mom 426 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,400 is happy there with our dad BlahBlah. 427 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,800 You know, we're all adults and, you know, maybe maybe for some 428 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,300 of them that would be an issue. I was thinking yesterday, when I 429 00:29:30,308 --> 00:29:34,100 was out for a ride, what it would have been, like, if I had 430 00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:40,500 grown up there and you know, we were all kids, then they might 431 00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:43,100 have hated me. Made fun of me. 432 00:29:43,100 --> 00:29:46,700 Beat me up picked on me cuz we probably would have went to the 433 00:29:46,700 --> 00:29:48,700 same school and everything. No, wow. 434 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,000 Yeah. Are you, the Oldest or know 435 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,700 there are four. It's Bob, Rhonda, Ray and Dale. 436 00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:02,200 They're older than me. And then, Delta and Shana are 437 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,100 younger than me. So I'm like right in the middle 438 00:30:05,100 --> 00:30:08,000 there. So he had an affair with your 439 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,000 mom during that first marriage. Where the, for kids during the 440 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,900 first second and third marriages, with your mom through 441 00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:17,500 all of those? Yes. 442 00:30:17,700 --> 00:30:23,900 Oh my gosh, because my younger Sisters mom told me that her 443 00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:30,300 older sister, who was the first wife and the second wife would 444 00:30:30,300 --> 00:30:34,200 go to my mother's house, to see if he was there to see if the 445 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,500 car was there. Oh wow. 446 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,700 So slight, it's very Jerry, Springer s but you were their 447 00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:46,400 only child together. As far as I know, I'm as far as 448 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,600 I know, she's never had any other children. 449 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,400 She never got married. Okay. 450 00:30:50,500 --> 00:30:54,000 Okay, you were her only child and all these other brothers and 451 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,000 sisters are from your dad. Yes, yes, wow. 452 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:05,100 Yeah, but it's just even even my aunt, who is my younger sisters, 453 00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:09,600 mom has, you know, made me feel very welcome. 454 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,500 You know, she told me, she said you are kids, even though you're 455 00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:19,200 adults now, you were kids. Yeah, you had no hand in what he 456 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,200 was doing, what they were. Doing, you know she said you 457 00:31:22,208 --> 00:31:27,200 guys it's it's no reflection on any of you also, you don't ever 458 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:32,000 feel like you know and I did felt that way for a long time 459 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:37,200 because when I found out that my birth mother had gone to 460 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,400 Florida, to give me up to go back up there and keep carrying 461 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,900 on with him. Kind of made me feel even more 462 00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:47,700 like shit man. Oh my gosh that's crazy. 463 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,200 Yeah so did your adoptive Family. 464 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,400 But they, your mom and dad alive. 465 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,500 When that letter came, how did they react to the reunions? 466 00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:58,900 If they were? Um, I was living him. 467 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,100 Well, yeah, we were all living in Baltimore. 468 00:32:01,100 --> 00:32:05,200 I was living in a separate place, but they knew about it. 469 00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:09,400 They said they didn't care. I mean, they were, I guess they 470 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,100 were happy for me. They didn't really say either 471 00:32:12,100 --> 00:32:14,300 way. They've never really been. 472 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,700 They have their opinionated, but it's their own opinions, they 473 00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:22,000 don't care really What's going on with? 474 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,100 So they didn't really have a preference of you like not 475 00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:29,100 finding anyone or, oh, no giving you that Vibe. 476 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,700 No, they never gave me that Vibe at all. 477 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,000 It never seemed like it was secretive or that it was 478 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,600 something shameful or that I shouldn't do it. 479 00:32:39,900 --> 00:32:45,500 And never, you know, discipline me or talk down to me when I 480 00:32:45,500 --> 00:32:49,300 talked about wanting to even contact her when I was younger. 481 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,800 Yeah. So, did you have a good 482 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,800 relationship with your adoptive brother? 483 00:32:54,500 --> 00:33:04,700 Um, no, no. I was so angry all the time. 484 00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:06,600 It didn't matter what I was doing. 485 00:33:06,900 --> 00:33:11,200 It didn't matter if I was playing softball or if I was at 486 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:17,600 my friend's house I just always had this simmering Lowdown, 487 00:33:17,900 --> 00:33:24,300 hush-hush anger. And I used to beat the crap out 488 00:33:24,300 --> 00:33:29,700 of my brother for no reason whatsoever until he got big 489 00:33:29,700 --> 00:33:30,500 enough. F2. 490 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,700 But, you know, I've talked to my daughter about my oldest 491 00:33:37,700 --> 00:33:42,400 daughter about this too, because I know that when my oldest 492 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,000 daughter was a baby, she would get upset. 493 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,600 I mean, kids get upset, they get upset, they cry, whatever. 494 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:54,900 I would just lose my mind yelling and cursing at her, you 495 00:33:54,900 --> 00:33:58,600 know, two years old. You know, shut up. 496 00:34:00,100 --> 00:34:03,500 No, just where did you think this came from the anger? 497 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:09,100 I'm assuming now that it's because she was a little kid, 498 00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:13,500 and I think that when I looked at her, that I was looking at me 499 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,800 and I think that when I looked at my little brother, I was 500 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,199 looking at me, Hmm, I don't know. 501 00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:28,199 That's something that I need to go further with because I'm in 502 00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:31,000 the process of getting myself back into therapy. 503 00:34:31,699 --> 00:34:35,000 I did work with an adoptee therapist. 504 00:34:35,699 --> 00:34:37,699 How's that been a couple years ago? 505 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,600 I did experience. That was great. 506 00:34:40,699 --> 00:34:43,600 Oh good. Yes, it was because that was 507 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:49,400 right when I first started coming out of the fog and she 508 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:57,200 gave me A lot of tips on. you know, when we, when we start 509 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,400 realizing that we have pains and traumas and stuff that we need 510 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:09,200 to take care of It can be so overwhelming and it's, you know, 511 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,300 in the last year that I wasn't in therapy, it was very 512 00:35:13,300 --> 00:35:19,000 overwhelming to me. And I was not thinking of a lot 513 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,900 of the tips and the tricks that she had given me the tools that 514 00:35:23,900 --> 00:35:30,900 she had given me too. Deal with things to prioritize 515 00:35:30,900 --> 00:35:35,700 things and to piece them out, you know, one of the things that 516 00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:40,600 she told me was, you know, you have to pick a time, not a time, 517 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:45,100 when you're sad, not a time when you're down in the dumps, not in 518 00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:48,100 the time when you're weepy. But a time when you're feeling 519 00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:51,700 strong, when you're feeling happy, you're feeling on top of 520 00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:55,600 things. You need to grab a pen and a pad 521 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,900 and you need to write down everything that you can think 522 00:35:59,900 --> 00:36:02,100 of. That is a hurt to you. 523 00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:08,500 That you feel like you need to deal with because once you have 524 00:36:08,500 --> 00:36:12,800 those things separated, they can't gang up on you anymore. 525 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,700 Hmm. Like my grandmother. 526 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,000 She was like the fame. Most famous for old saying, she 527 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,300 had old saying for everything. And and I do that too. 528 00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:29,400 I love all kinds of old weird quirky saying and my favorite 529 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,900 saying is, you can't see the forest for the trees. 530 00:36:32,700 --> 00:36:38,700 I think that that is just goes hand in hand with this tool for 531 00:36:38,700 --> 00:36:44,600 separating these problems out because if we feel depressed, if 532 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,100 we're feeling like we want to drink or we want to smoke or we 533 00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:52,500 want to chase after somebody to so they can make us feel loved. 534 00:36:52,900 --> 00:36:57,400 you get yourself wallowing in all that stuff and when you're 535 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:04,000 wallowing and all that stuff, it can gang up on you but It only 536 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,700 takes three or four steps, sometimes their steps backward, 537 00:37:09,100 --> 00:37:12,700 sometimes they're steps forward, sometimes, they're just moving 538 00:37:12,700 --> 00:37:16,000 to the side a little bit, but all that stuff. 539 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,200 You get into the forest and the trees are all around you. 540 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,300 The sun light can't shine in and it's dark and dank and 541 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,300 everything is just there. And if you can just take, just a 542 00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:32,500 few steps and step outside of the forest, it just changes your 543 00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:35,000 whole perspective. Active the forest might be 544 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,400 pretty big. It might go for miles. 545 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,200 Yeah. But you can see that it has a 546 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,000 beginning and somewhere there's an end. 547 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:49,200 You can see that it's dark in there, but the sun is still 548 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,200 shining. You can see things in a 549 00:37:53,207 --> 00:37:57,300 different way, in a different light, from a different View and 550 00:37:57,300 --> 00:38:04,300 it just makes it so much easier. To say, you know what, I'm going 551 00:38:04,300 --> 00:38:08,300 to do this in six weeks and get yourself a calendar. 552 00:38:08,500 --> 00:38:12,800 Number one, number two, number three, four, five, six. 553 00:38:13,300 --> 00:38:19,800 And each week, just concentrate on that one issue because that's 554 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,800 what works for me. Yeah. 555 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:29,500 And since the last time you and I spoke that tool that was given 556 00:38:29,500 --> 00:38:31,000 to me came back. To me. 557 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,700 I was thinking about it one day and because like I said, the 558 00:38:34,700 --> 00:38:38,400 last year I had the breakup and you know possible 559 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,000 reconciliation, that's not going to happen, Okay. 560 00:38:42,900 --> 00:38:49,100 I have to move on but that's something that I you know, I 561 00:38:49,107 --> 00:38:55,200 gained 30 pounds I was drinking every single day and I had to 562 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,200 get my perspective back. I have to step out of the forest 563 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,400 and Count the trees and put them in order. 564 00:39:04,700 --> 00:39:06,900 And now I have to start tackling them. 565 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,500 I heard a good analogy the other day. 566 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,400 Like when you take off in a plane and it's stormy and the 567 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,300 clouds are all black and dark and you break through those 568 00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:20,300 clouds and there's still the sun and the blue sky above those 569 00:39:20,300 --> 00:39:22,400 clouds. But you couldn't see it but it 570 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:23,900 was always there. Yeah. 571 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:25,800 Yeah. I heard that analogy that her 572 00:39:25,808 --> 00:39:28,200 dad's like that's a really good one because that, you know. 573 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,500 Yeah, you're still there. Your essence, your authenticity 574 00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:34,700 who you really are is still in In there. 575 00:39:34,700 --> 00:39:37,000 But you sometimes, like you said the trees are in the way. 576 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,300 You can't see can't figure out where what's the navigation 577 00:39:41,300 --> 00:39:43,700 system trying to tell you where he's supposed to go. 578 00:39:43,900 --> 00:39:47,900 You know, but unless you start walking, yeah, unless you start 579 00:39:47,900 --> 00:39:51,100 doing something then you're really not going to get through 580 00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:54,700 those trees. So right, and I know I'm not 581 00:39:54,700 --> 00:39:58,300 going to say that that will work for everybody. 582 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,200 And I've had my own struggles with drinking and all that kind 583 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:06,000 of stuff. And I have Considered suicide 584 00:40:06,500 --> 00:40:10,500 earlier in my life. But I hope that somebody else 585 00:40:10,500 --> 00:40:15,200 could use that tool to just kind of put things in their place 586 00:40:15,900 --> 00:40:21,600 because it's so hard. If you that pain that I have, 587 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,500 whatever that pain is, whatever that Hangar is still in there 588 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,400 and I don't think it's ever going to go away, you know, and 589 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:34,000 I come close to opening up the lid of the Box a few times on 590 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,200 it. And I know that it's going to be 591 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:41,700 total shit show when I open it up, but knowing that I have 592 00:40:41,700 --> 00:40:49,100 school and knowing that I can take these things and deal with 593 00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:55,100 them one by one that I don't have to, I don't have to jump 594 00:40:55,100 --> 00:40:59,100 into them and then end up drowning in the quicksand of it. 595 00:40:59,500 --> 00:41:02,000 Yeah, I mean, everybody's got their own combination. 596 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,300 I think it's very a very personal thing. 597 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,300 You know. Yeah, and that's what's great 598 00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:09,500 about all these people that I interview it seems like 599 00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:12,600 everybody has their little twist that they bring in. 600 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,100 Like that little thing that maybe like you said, get help 601 00:41:16,100 --> 00:41:18,500 somebody else. So that was that's really good. 602 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,900 Yeah. So did something bring you out 603 00:41:20,900 --> 00:41:23,200 of the fog. What what happened? 604 00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:30,300 I just felt like I was waking up to, maybe it was The Break-Up or 605 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,600 it could have been. It could have been, was The 606 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,100 Break-Up losing that losing? You know what? 607 00:41:38,100 --> 00:41:40,600 I feel like was my only true love. 608 00:41:41,500 --> 00:41:45,800 I don't know all my life, or after I moved out of my parents 609 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:51,200 house, every time I would see My adoptive mother, it would say to 610 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,300 me. No matter what, we were having 611 00:41:54,300 --> 00:41:56,800 lunch when we're taking the baby to the doctor. 612 00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:01,100 We were going grocery shopping every single time she saw me. 613 00:42:01,300 --> 00:42:05,300 The first thing she would do is comment on my hair on how 614 00:42:05,300 --> 00:42:08,500 beautiful my hair is. And why do you do that to your 615 00:42:08,500 --> 00:42:11,300 hair? Why do you always put this in 616 00:42:11,300 --> 00:42:14,300 then put that in it and why do you always chop it off? 617 00:42:14,300 --> 00:42:17,400 It's so beautiful and thick, not another that. 618 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:27,100 And for holla, It's okay, we're talking about the fog and maybe 619 00:42:27,100 --> 00:42:32,600 what, triggered that and I said about your relationship, okay? 620 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,800 Yes. Okay, the last three or four 621 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,500 years, my adopted parents were living with me. 622 00:42:39,300 --> 00:42:46,300 They are in their mid 80s and it has come to pass that they now 623 00:42:46,300 --> 00:42:50,500 don't have a pot to piss in. Oh, wow. 624 00:42:50,700 --> 00:42:54,800 Bad money management. On my dad's part I guess he 625 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,900 didn't put away for their future. 626 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:04,100 So no more yards. No more cars, no more house. 627 00:43:04,100 --> 00:43:08,300 Nothing. So they ended up coming to live 628 00:43:08,300 --> 00:43:13,900 with me in my apartment. And I don't have a TV. 629 00:43:13,900 --> 00:43:19,000 I haven't had a TV in about 12 years so I do a lot of reading. 630 00:43:19,100 --> 00:43:22,600 I listen to a lot of podcasts. You know, I have an apartment 631 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,100 but I'm mostly in my room. When they moved in with me and 632 00:43:26,100 --> 00:43:30,200 TVs on 24/7, because they did bring a TV, they brought to. 633 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,000 As a matter of fact, my dad sleeps in the living room and 634 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,300 the recliner. So there's always someone there. 635 00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:41,700 They took over the kitchen, they took over the dining area. 636 00:43:42,100 --> 00:43:47,300 So now I'm like in my room, I'm living in my room. 637 00:43:47,900 --> 00:43:50,600 Yeah. So we were in that apartment for 638 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,100 a year and a half and then we moved into a two-bedroom 639 00:43:54,100 --> 00:43:57,000 two-bath. So I had the master bedroom. 640 00:43:57,700 --> 00:44:01,800 But again, you know, I'm in the bedroom and I have my own 641 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,800 bathroom, but other than to come out and to cook some food or to 642 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:11,600 wash my clothes, I have known Being space and all of the 643 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:16,500 things that I had already all the things that I knew, but 644 00:44:16,500 --> 00:44:19,600 never really affected me. All of a sudden were affecting 645 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,500 me, and maybe that maybe The Break-Up does have a lot to do 646 00:44:23,500 --> 00:44:25,000 with it. But I think that it was just 647 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:29,000 that they were so in my face now and in my space. 648 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:33,100 Yeah, I had no choice but to interact with them every single 649 00:44:33,100 --> 00:44:36,900 day and it got to the point where my mother is. 650 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,400 I just didn't even want. I want her to talk to me. 651 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,100 I didn't want her to say hi to me. 652 00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:43,900 Nothing because her voice was just like, nails on a 653 00:44:43,900 --> 00:44:46,400 chalkboard. Yeah, it's all that repressed, 654 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,100 the repressed feelings and things that you want to say. 655 00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:52,900 And the thing is with them, I've tried talking to them over the 656 00:44:52,900 --> 00:44:55,700 years. I've tried talking to them, even 657 00:44:55,700 --> 00:44:59,200 before I came out of the fog, I tried talking to my dad about 658 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:04,400 what he said about, you know, about not wanting kids. 659 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:09,500 And he, I don't remember saying that abla And my mother would 660 00:45:09,500 --> 00:45:11,600 chime in. He never would have said 661 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,100 anything like that. Well, yes. 662 00:45:13,100 --> 00:45:17,200 He yes, he did. And, you know, now you're just 663 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,000 backing him up those like right whenever I would try to address 664 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,400 it or try to talk to them as adults, they would just shut me 665 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,000 down. I'm you're crazy. 666 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,200 You don't know what you're talking about. 667 00:45:29,300 --> 00:45:32,600 That never happened whole lot of gas lighting. 668 00:45:34,100 --> 00:45:37,700 Yeah, you know, maybe when I was a kid. 669 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:42,700 Maybe my perceptions were a little altered because I was in 670 00:45:42,700 --> 00:45:47,100 the fog. But now I'm 51 years old and I'm 671 00:45:47,100 --> 00:45:53,500 not in the fog and I know what happened and I know what's going 672 00:45:53,500 --> 00:45:57,900 on in my life and I know what you guys did and now you won't 673 00:45:57,900 --> 00:46:03,600 even talk about it to me. So yeah, just I had to remove 674 00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,200 myself from that situation. But if I have to say one thing 675 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,900 that would do, That would have triggered me waking up. 676 00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:15,500 It would have been just that being faced with the reality 677 00:46:15,500 --> 00:46:21,800 that they tried to make me live and then trying to not 678 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,500 necessarily throw it back in their face, but to confront them 679 00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:30,400 about it and getting shut down getting a brick wall. 680 00:46:30,900 --> 00:46:32,300 Yeah. It's kind of hard to talk to a 681 00:46:32,300 --> 00:46:34,000 brick wall. You know. 682 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,600 I felt like I was doing them a favor. 683 00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,500 I didn't feel like I owed it to them to let them live with me 684 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,000 and they certainly weren't living with me for free, but I 685 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,700 did feel that. Okay, well if we're going to 686 00:46:48,700 --> 00:46:51,300 share this space together and then there are some things that 687 00:46:51,300 --> 00:46:55,000 we need to. At least give me the respect to 688 00:46:55,100 --> 00:46:57,300 you know let are this stuff out with me. 689 00:46:57,700 --> 00:47:00,300 So did they move out on their own? 690 00:47:00,300 --> 00:47:02,100 No, I moved. I left. 691 00:47:02,900 --> 00:47:07,600 I left you actually. The landlord came to us. 692 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,800 This was two years or a year and a half ago when all this real 693 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:16,000 estate stuff started going crazy and they were offering him 694 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,800 ridiculous sums of money for a little mobile home, which he 695 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:25,700 never saw, but he told us that he had somebody was offering him 696 00:47:25,700 --> 00:47:28,300 a hundred thousand dollars and we had to find a place to live. 697 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,100 And I said, well, when should we start looking? 698 00:47:31,100 --> 00:47:38,300 And he said right now. So I applied for jobs with iPod 699 00:47:38,300 --> 00:47:41,500 with my company in four different states and this is 700 00:47:41,500 --> 00:47:45,400 where I got a great hit in South Carolina, got a promotion back 701 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,900 to the original job. I have with my company and I 702 00:47:49,900 --> 00:47:53,200 offered for them to go with me and they declined. 703 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:59,800 And I think they knew that I didn't want them to but um, But 704 00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,100 you know, they declined they said no will stay here? 705 00:48:02,100 --> 00:48:03,700 We're too old. We don't want to move. 706 00:48:03,700 --> 00:48:04,400 Blah. Blah blah. 707 00:48:04,900 --> 00:48:06,900 Okay. See ya. 708 00:48:10,500 --> 00:48:18,900 Yeah, you need. Not have to tell me since he was 709 00:48:18,900 --> 00:48:24,100 essentially telling us get out. Yeah, nice Curry and um, he you 710 00:48:24,100 --> 00:48:27,100 know he tried finding he tried to help him find a place to 711 00:48:27,100 --> 00:48:28,900 live. I tried when it before I left, 712 00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:32,100 but You tried to get them a place to live and they weren't 713 00:48:32,100 --> 00:48:34,200 having any luck nothing that they could afford. 714 00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,000 So and they won't live in low-income housing. 715 00:48:38,100 --> 00:48:46,800 That's their their above that. So, are you out of the fog now? 716 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,600 Are you working? Work in progress. 717 00:48:49,700 --> 00:48:51,600 I think I can like see the light out. 718 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:57,600 They're still working on it. I think that I'm out of it and 719 00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,600 the reason I think that I'm out of It is because I can put a 720 00:49:01,607 --> 00:49:08,200 number to these 123456, and before I had no clue, I was so 721 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:14,200 clueless about my whole life. And now I have things that I 722 00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:19,500 know that I need to deal with, but I also know that I feel 723 00:49:19,500 --> 00:49:24,200 comfortable in my skin. I feel comfortable with myself 724 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:29,100 as a person. I don't feel lost anymore. 725 00:49:29,900 --> 00:49:31,800 Yeah, I still have triggers and stuff. 726 00:49:32,100 --> 00:49:35,400 You know, where I feel like I'm not wanted or I don't fit in, 727 00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:42,600 but But I know, I know who I am and I know that I'm a good 728 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:47,500 friend and that I'm a worthwhile person in myself. 729 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,700 Yeah, whether it's just me or not. 730 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:56,800 Yeah, that's great. So in closing, what is one thing 731 00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,900 that you would like the adoption constellation to know could be 732 00:50:00,900 --> 00:50:04,400 adoptees birth mothers. Adoptive parents. 733 00:50:05,100 --> 00:50:06,600 What would you want any of those? 734 00:50:06,900 --> 00:50:11,000 All to know about adoption. I just want a job. 735 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,800 These to realize that whether you found out where your issues 736 00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:25,000 come from or not, we're not the some of our past our past is 737 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,800 something that we should learn from. 738 00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,000 There's a lot of lessons in there. 739 00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:41,300 There's a lot of lessons in mind. but just have to, it's 740 00:50:41,300 --> 00:50:45,900 important to hear a multitude of stories because like you said, 741 00:50:47,300 --> 00:50:51,100 Everyone has one little tidbit that's going to be for one other 742 00:50:51,100 --> 00:50:54,600 person. May be halfway around the world. 743 00:50:54,700 --> 00:51:01,600 But yeah the more stories do here and the more methods you 744 00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:07,900 here and the more perspectives you get the more affirmation you 745 00:51:07,900 --> 00:51:11,400 get ya. So tell your story. 746 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,800 If we don't want to tell it on a podcast, tell it to somebody you 747 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,800 meet at work. Since I moved up here, I've met 748 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,900 three young ladies that two of them that I trained that are 749 00:51:20,900 --> 00:51:26,500 also adopting and they're young. They don't see any issues with 750 00:51:26,500 --> 00:51:29,400 it, they're both in there very early twenties. 751 00:51:29,900 --> 00:51:36,100 Hmm, and one is a transracial Korean adoptee but just tell it 752 00:51:36,100 --> 00:51:39,400 to somebody. Tell it to somebody tell it to a 753 00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:44,100 stranger, Yeah, because you never know who is going to 754 00:51:44,100 --> 00:51:46,400 touch. But the thing is, is that the 755 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,200 more you listen, and the more people tell you, things about 756 00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,200 your own life, the more affirmation you get. 757 00:51:53,300 --> 00:51:56,500 Yeah, I met a young lady, I was training, a young lady last. 758 00:51:56,500 --> 00:51:59,300 The last two weeks at work and she's not adopted. 759 00:51:59,300 --> 00:52:02,800 She's gone through some situations with her family, you 760 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:08,600 know. And I was feeling blah, but she 761 00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,600 said a lot of the same things, To me that you said to me a 762 00:52:12,607 --> 00:52:18,500 couple weeks ago and it was just affirmation some people get 763 00:52:18,500 --> 00:52:21,700 their affirmation through church. 764 00:52:21,900 --> 00:52:25,200 Some people get it through support groups, through 765 00:52:25,300 --> 00:52:27,500 friendship, groups, book, clubs, whatever. 766 00:52:27,500 --> 00:52:33,000 But go and just talk to people because you never know who needs 767 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,900 to hear it and you never know who you're going to talk to you, 768 00:52:35,900 --> 00:52:38,000 that has something for you to hear. 769 00:52:38,500 --> 00:52:40,200 Exactly. Yeah. 770 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:44,200 In the universe never lets let you know. 771 00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:48,100 Hang I mean if you're like, you said, if you'd start walking out 772 00:52:48,100 --> 00:52:52,100 of that Forest the breadcrumbs will be there and it might not 773 00:52:52,100 --> 00:52:55,100 be tomorrow that you're, you know, totally out of the fog and 774 00:52:55,100 --> 00:52:59,800 just fine. Now it is a process and you know 775 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:03,600 and who knows if we ever truly totally heal from it but 776 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:09,300 definitely just keep walking keep walking out of there 777 00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,700 because things Are out there for you and if you don't step out of 778 00:53:13,700 --> 00:53:16,400 the forest, you're not going to you're not going to find those 779 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:17,600 things. Right? 780 00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:22,000 And it really can be a blessing in disguise coming out of the 781 00:53:22,008 --> 00:53:26,800 fog and talking about your stories and just getting it out. 782 00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,500 Even just for yourself is so healing. 783 00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:31,600 Not to mention what it does for other people. 784 00:53:32,100 --> 00:53:35,500 Yes. And the one thing that I wanted 785 00:53:35,500 --> 00:53:40,700 to say to adoptive parents or to people who are considering 786 00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:44,100 During adopting. I don't know if any of them are 787 00:53:44,100 --> 00:53:48,800 listening, but Start therapy now. 788 00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:51,800 Counseling therapy. Whatever you want to call it. 789 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:56,400 Start it now and don't stop. Don't stop when the baby is 790 00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,400 three months old. Don't stop when the baby is 791 00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:02,200 three years old and stop when the baby is 10 or 13 years old. 792 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:07,200 Yeah, keep going because and try and find an adoption informed 793 00:54:07,500 --> 00:54:09,100 therapist. Yeah. 794 00:54:09,100 --> 00:54:14,900 You're not raising a puppy and you need lessons the whole way 795 00:54:14,900 --> 00:54:19,800 along. Because exactly what I just had 796 00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:24,700 an adoptive parent on this week on the podcast and she was 797 00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:29,100 exactly said the same thing. She's like, get therapy now now. 798 00:54:29,700 --> 00:54:33,800 Yeah, I know, hopefully, before you adopt because a lot of times 799 00:54:34,100 --> 00:54:37,200 the adoptive parents have infertility issues or other 800 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,300 issues, where they can't have children. 801 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,400 And those are things that you have to deal with as well. 802 00:54:42,700 --> 00:54:45,200 And then you just going to try and slap a Band-Aid over it with 803 00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:46,900 this other child. Right. 804 00:54:46,900 --> 00:54:52,800 It doesn't work, you know. So I'd like totally exactly what 805 00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:56,900 she said was get therapy. Is that the woman that her son 806 00:54:56,900 --> 00:54:59,500 is Joe and they have a podcast Joey? 807 00:54:59,500 --> 00:55:03,200 Yeah, yes, yeah. I was listening to that the 808 00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:07,100 other day that was another thing that reiterated what the young 809 00:55:07,100 --> 00:55:10,000 lady at my job was saying. Yeah. 810 00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,200 So you listen to the early ones when he was on. 811 00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,300 Did you listen to the ones that he was honored though? 812 00:55:15,300 --> 00:55:19,000 I was gonna go check. Out there podcast because I 813 00:55:19,008 --> 00:55:22,100 didn't hear the ones where he was on with you. 814 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,500 I'm telling you, man, if you want to come out of the fog 815 00:55:25,500 --> 00:55:31,000 quick, an adoptive parent. Listen to those episodes with 816 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:35,200 him on there, if they're amazing amazing. 817 00:55:35,300 --> 00:55:41,000 He's so smart and just so articulate and can just help so 818 00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,200 many adoptees. So I'm really rooting for him 819 00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,300 right now. But yeah, go back and listen to 820 00:55:45,300 --> 00:55:47,500 those early episodes. It's just crazy. 821 00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,900 Well Christine, thank you so much for coming on the show 822 00:55:51,900 --> 00:55:54,000 today. Thank you very much. 823 00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,400 I enjoyed it. And I enjoyed getting a chance 824 00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:58,900 to shed some light for somebody else. 825 00:55:58,900 --> 00:56:05,300 Hopefully, thank you so much. Christine for being vulnerable 826 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:10,200 and willing to tell your story on mind your own Karma, I'm sure 827 00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:12,800 there's a lot of adoptees out there that will be able to 828 00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:16,500 relate to your story. Are you ready to tell your On 829 00:56:16,500 --> 00:56:20,700 the podcast, if you are, please email me, mind your own Karma at 830 00:56:20,700 --> 00:56:23,700 gmail.com. Let's get your story on the 831 00:56:23,700 --> 00:56:27,300 podcast. Let's educate the world, one 832 00:56:27,300 --> 00:56:31,100 story at a time. All of my links are in the show 833 00:56:31,100 --> 00:56:33,000 notes. If you would like to find me on 834 00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:37,800 Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, all those places they are 835 00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,900 clickable links. So super easy to use. 836 00:56:41,100 --> 00:56:45,500 If you haven't read and reviewed the podcast yet, please do so on 837 00:56:45,500 --> 00:56:49,000 your listening. Form if it is allowed, it really 838 00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,800 helps the algorithms, it helps get the word out about this 839 00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,500 podcast and it helps educate the world about adoption. 840 00:56:56,000 --> 00:57:00,400 As always take what you need and leave what you don't and always 841 00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:04,600 remember to mind your own Karma. I'll see you next time. 842 00:56:46,300 --> 00:56:50,800 Form if it is allowed, it really helps the algorithms, it helps 843 00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,900 get the word out about this podcast and it helps educate the 844 00:56:53,900 --> 00:56:58,200 world about adoption. As always take what you need and 845 00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:02,700 leave what you don't and always remember to mind your own Karma. 846 00:57:03,300 --> 00:57:04,600 I'll see you next time.