1 00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:01,100 Hey there. It's Melissa. 2 00:00:01,100 --> 00:00:04,700 Brunetti and welcome to the mind your own Karma podcast. 3 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:17,700 Hey, their karma Cruise. So glad you're joining me for 4 00:00:17,700 --> 00:00:20,500 another episode of mind, your own Karma, the adoption 5 00:00:20,500 --> 00:00:25,700 Chronicles, and as promised I have another adoptee story for 6 00:00:25,700 --> 00:00:29,100 you today. Emily, Albert is a 40 year old 7 00:00:29,100 --> 00:00:32,400 domestic infant adoptee from Grosse Pointe, Michigan. 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:34,500 Born outside of Chicago, Illinois. 9 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:39,100 Emily identifies as multiple neurodivergent and has special 10 00:00:39,100 --> 00:00:41,600 interest in writing composing music. 11 00:00:42,100 --> 00:00:44,400 Ting art and learning about psychology. 12 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,400 These interest. Have each played a major role in 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,800 her Evolution as a human being. And as an adopted person, 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,000 learning to embrace her own identity as a creative. 15 00:00:54,300 --> 00:00:58,000 She recently started a Blog on sub stack called out of the fog 16 00:00:58,100 --> 00:01:01,300 and uses that space to articulate her experiences in 17 00:01:01,300 --> 00:01:04,000 relation to separation from her natural mother. 18 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:09,300 And how adoption has impacted her life, here is Emily Albers, 19 00:01:09,500 --> 00:01:13,000 adoption story. So, we're welcoming Emily to 20 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,600 mind your own Karma today. Hi Emily. 21 00:01:14,900 --> 00:01:16,600 Hi, how are you? I'm good. 22 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,100 Thanks for coming. Yeah, this is gonna be great 23 00:01:19,100 --> 00:01:22,500 conversation. So let's just jump right in and 24 00:01:22,500 --> 00:01:25,900 why don't you tell us why your parents adopted you what were 25 00:01:25,900 --> 00:01:32,800 the circumstances and fertility. So my mom Couldn't have children 26 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:37,100 or she was really struggling to have children and my aunt's 27 00:01:37,300 --> 00:01:39,900 wasn't able to have children at all, who is older than her. 28 00:01:39,900 --> 00:01:42,900 So, she, I think kind of started making the assumption that that 29 00:01:42,900 --> 00:01:45,200 was just going to be a problem for her as well. 30 00:01:45,300 --> 00:01:50,800 So she and my father, I think they were in their late 20s. 31 00:01:50,900 --> 00:01:53,600 When this started when they had started the whole application 32 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,200 process for adoption. But found out that my dad was 33 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,700 too old for Catholic Social Services. 34 00:01:59,900 --> 00:02:03,100 Wow. So they took an alternate, 35 00:02:03,500 --> 00:02:06,700 alternate route. I didn't know Catholic Services, 36 00:02:06,700 --> 00:02:11,200 had an age limit. They were in their 20s. 37 00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:14,500 They were their late 20s. My my dad may have been in his 38 00:02:14,500 --> 00:02:15,700 early 30s. So. 39 00:02:15,900 --> 00:02:18,500 Wow, that's the story. My parents have told me. 40 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,200 Wow. So I was reading an article that 41 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,800 you wrote and you said that you found out that you were adopted 42 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:26,800 at 4 years old. Do you remember that 43 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,400 conversation? No, I don't recollection. 44 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:35,900 But I've asked questions all throughout the course of my life 45 00:02:35,900 --> 00:02:40,300 to my parents sometimes multiple times just because you know how 46 00:02:40,300 --> 00:02:44,300 that is with adoptee as we, those pieces of information are 47 00:02:44,300 --> 00:02:48,400 like gold to US. Yeah, so I think I sometimes 48 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,800 needed to hear it more than one time and it's not that I wanted 49 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,700 to see if the story changed its just to see how I processed it 50 00:02:55,700 --> 00:02:59,700 differently as an adult versus. When I may have heard that when 51 00:02:59,700 --> 00:03:03,100 I asked as a Teenager. Like, when did you tell me? 52 00:03:03,700 --> 00:03:05,700 My mom was pregnant with my sister. 53 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,600 So she ended up getting pregnant with two of her children. 54 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:15,300 Using fertility intervention. So I asked her were you this fat 55 00:03:15,300 --> 00:03:20,100 when I was in your tummy? Then she was like, well, not all 56 00:03:20,100 --> 00:03:23,600 babies. Come through mommy's tummy and I 57 00:03:23,608 --> 00:03:26,700 don't obviously have any memory of like, what else happened 58 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:29,200 after that? But something that came up 59 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:34,500 recently for me that I've Had to start processing was, I always 60 00:03:34,500 --> 00:03:37,500 thought this was funny like something that I thought was 61 00:03:37,500 --> 00:03:43,300 funny, but then I added the blue realized like how not funny. 62 00:03:43,300 --> 00:03:44,900 This isn't actually how messed up. 63 00:03:44,900 --> 00:03:50,100 No one explained to me that I was born and then no one 64 00:03:50,100 --> 00:03:53,200 clarified like the father situation. 65 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:59,900 So I have a memory of arguing with my dad after 10 years old. 66 00:03:59,900 --> 00:04:03,600 So I think anywhere between 10 And 13 where I was like. 67 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,700 You have to know who my biological mother is like you 68 00:04:06,700 --> 00:04:11,900 had a baby with her and so it just occurred to me, I didn't 69 00:04:11,900 --> 00:04:16,800 know that my dad wasn't my dad until I was between 10 and 13 70 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,899 years old and I don't even get sunk in. 71 00:04:18,899 --> 00:04:22,200 And I honestly I just turned 40 and it just sunk in and I'm 72 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,200 like, what was going on in my mind? 73 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,900 And no wonder I was so like Moody and like weird after that 74 00:04:29,900 --> 00:04:34,700 conversation Interesting. Wow. 75 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:41,100 So how did you feel once you kind of you know when you when 76 00:04:41,100 --> 00:04:43,100 it was sinking in that you are adopted. 77 00:04:43,100 --> 00:04:45,600 How did that play out in your childhood? 78 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:50,300 And as teenager, do you do did you see areas net Looking 79 00:04:50,300 --> 00:04:53,100 Backward? Option affected anything in your 80 00:04:53,100 --> 00:04:57,200 childhood 1000%? Yeah, well my parents also got a 81 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:04,600 divorce so that was like really hard And my dad brought a woman 82 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,400 into our lives that I don't I do not get along with. 83 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:13,700 So that was something that I think people wanted to latch 84 00:05:13,700 --> 00:05:18,000 onto that I was struggling with this stepmom situation. 85 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,900 When in reality it was more about my adoption issues and 86 00:05:22,900 --> 00:05:30,400 like repeat abandonment and I was very moody and I started 87 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,500 having Really bad stomach problems like stomach pain. 88 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,300 There was a number of times that I went to the hospital because I 89 00:05:38,300 --> 00:05:41,100 was having abdominal pain. That was really bad. 90 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,500 I was accused of being a hypochondriac like a bunch of 91 00:05:44,500 --> 00:05:48,500 times and I'll never forget there was one nurse and I've 92 00:05:48,500 --> 00:05:52,100 this is something I've latched on to just to preserve my 93 00:05:52,100 --> 00:05:55,400 sanity. She she said no there's like 94 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,100 abnormal bleeding. Just a little bit and she was 95 00:05:58,100 --> 00:06:01,300 like I don't think that we should let this go when It 96 00:06:01,300 --> 00:06:05,600 turned out to manifest into having endometriosis and PCOS 97 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:09,200 and all of this other stuff that I would go on to struggle with. 98 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:13,000 But I do think that the stress had manifested so badly that it 99 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,100 was causing a lot of these issues earlier on. 100 00:06:16,500 --> 00:06:20,200 Yeah, yeah. How did it affect relationships 101 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:25,400 like as a teenager did you date? How did that work out? 102 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:30,800 Well, I was really quiet. I was also undiagnosed autistic, 103 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,100 so, What people I think are more familiar with the term 104 00:06:34,100 --> 00:06:38,000 Asperger's, but that's not a thing anymore and I also have 105 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,500 ADHD and that's what I think was presenting itself at the time. 106 00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:46,000 That's all that kind of had come up aside from PTSD and Trauma 107 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:51,300 from the separation issue. But I was told by other people 108 00:06:51,300 --> 00:06:53,900 that I was really quiet and the beginning of high school, which 109 00:06:53,900 --> 00:06:58,200 is strange, because I am not a quiet person like, non-compliant 110 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:04,100 adoptee a just like super, you know, intense Once but I always 111 00:07:04,100 --> 00:07:07,600 went for the bad boys and I started drinking early and that 112 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,400 happened after. I met my biological mother, but 113 00:07:10,500 --> 00:07:13,400 the relationship stuff that was the hardest for me was the stuff 114 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,400 that was going on at home. After the divorce. 115 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,900 This is my belief that my brother who's just a year and a 116 00:07:19,900 --> 00:07:25,300 half younger than me, his biological, he was really hurt 117 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,700 by my parents divorce, like very badly, I like drawing pictures 118 00:07:29,700 --> 00:07:33,100 bad, you know. And I feel like he took that out 119 00:07:33,100 --> 00:07:36,500 on me a lot. And so there were times where I 120 00:07:36,500 --> 00:07:40,500 heard, no one loves you, no one wants you, shut up, you're 121 00:07:40,500 --> 00:07:42,200 annoying. You're this, you're that you're 122 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,200 fat, you're ugly, you can't play with us, you're adopted. 123 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:52,000 Well, and there's one time that is like forever burned into my 124 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,600 brain. That I went downstairs to like 125 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,200 the family computer. How it was back. 126 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:02,900 Then late 90s or early. Is it was like, you know, the 127 00:08:02,900 --> 00:08:06,000 computer was in the basement and my brother had left AOL. 128 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,300 Instant Messenger open. And there was no a message that 129 00:08:09,300 --> 00:08:13,900 said out with my real sisters and then he named my sister and 130 00:08:13,900 --> 00:08:17,400 one of her friends and left it out for me to see and I was 131 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,500 devastated. And I have a very toxic family 132 00:08:20,500 --> 00:08:25,300 system and so I recognize that my brother was in the same toxic 133 00:08:25,300 --> 00:08:30,200 family system as I men. But there's this recollection of 134 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,000 my behavioral Problems, but not of that stuff. 135 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:37,900 Yeah, well, that's something that's persisted. 136 00:08:37,900 --> 00:08:43,799 I mean, is this is never stopped since childhood the ongoing. 137 00:08:44,100 --> 00:08:46,200 Yeah, stop these Saga. I know. 138 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,700 So then in that article also, you referred to your adoption as 139 00:08:49,700 --> 00:08:52,400 a fraudulent, baby broker adoption. 140 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,800 So what happened? What were the circumstances with 141 00:08:54,800 --> 00:09:00,500 that? So course of advertising my 142 00:09:00,500 --> 00:09:02,500 biological. My mother ended up when she was 143 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:04,400 19 years old. Going from North Dakota to 144 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,000 Chicago. She was threatened. 145 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,300 She was you know made it impossible for her to back out 146 00:09:09,300 --> 00:09:11,600 of anything that she had gotten herself into. 147 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,800 It was just a really scary situation and there was an 148 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:20,200 ongoing case against Easter house which is more of a law 149 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,300 firm than an agency. That I don't think they were 150 00:09:23,300 --> 00:09:25,900 licensed. When I was adopted, there was no 151 00:09:25,900 --> 00:09:29,900 home study and my parents handed over, what would be the 152 00:09:29,900 --> 00:09:34,400 equivalent now of the Thousand dollars in cash to a person 153 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:39,100 representing this lawyer, see more Kurtz at the Dearborn Hyatt 154 00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:43,200 in Michigan, so like rate, kind of as you'd be going out of town 155 00:09:43,700 --> 00:09:48,400 to go chicken to Illinois. It was you know white babies for 156 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,300 sale in the 80s was like a big deal. 157 00:09:50,300 --> 00:09:53,900 That's like that was the thing. Is this big? 158 00:09:54,100 --> 00:09:56,800 It was like a, I see it. Everywhere was just like that 159 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,000 people were making insane amounts of money off of 160 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,700 marketing White. Bees to wealthier families. 161 00:10:03,100 --> 00:10:09,000 Wow wow. So so did you meet your 162 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,300 biological family? Then it sounds like you did. 163 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,400 Once you tell us about how that came about, it sounds like it 164 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,000 happened early, like, in your teens, I was 15. 165 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,600 And I guess to Circle back to AOL. 166 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,200 Instant Messenger. Found my biological mom on AOL 167 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,200 people. Search by actually finding 168 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,300 somebody totally separate and she It it ended up. 169 00:10:32,300 --> 00:10:35,000 I was just asking questions about North Dakota and it all 170 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,700 like kind of came together and the random person I asked this 171 00:10:37,700 --> 00:10:41,300 question to work for my grandmother and by the end of 172 00:10:41,308 --> 00:10:43,300 the day I was like on the phone with them. 173 00:10:43,300 --> 00:10:46,000 It was the most intense thing of all things. 174 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,200 How did you know your mom's name? 175 00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:53,900 So after I was born, I think it was about six months my 176 00:10:54,100 --> 00:10:59,700 biological mother called my parents house and she had made 177 00:10:59,700 --> 00:11:03,700 friends with somebody. To get this information and my 178 00:11:03,700 --> 00:11:07,100 mom answered. And she just said, hi, you know, 179 00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:12,100 I'm I'm Dawn and I, I gave birth to Emily. 180 00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:14,600 And I just wanted to know if she was okay. 181 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:20,600 And she told me that she was like remembers that very 182 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,200 clearly. And remembers my mom being 183 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,400 really nice and that she was like, I think I would have like 184 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,300 hurt myself. Just, if I wouldn't have known 185 00:11:29,300 --> 00:11:32,000 where you were and what was going on, That's how like, 186 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,100 traumatizing, you know, the stuff for everyone. 187 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,800 My mom remembers this. She's like, she had the softest 188 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:44,300 voice and she's like, and I just commend her for doing that. 189 00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:48,200 That took a lot of courage and Dawn feels like that scared. 190 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:53,200 My mom, and it just didn't, so yeah, I'm surprised your mom 191 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,400 reacted, that way. I think my mom would have been, 192 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,600 like, filling threatened. Like, are you coming back 193 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,900 together? Like, haha, my mom's not like 194 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,600 Like doesn't really fit the profile from like what most 195 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,700 adoptees who are involved in the community talk about. 196 00:12:07,700 --> 00:12:11,000 Hmm. And she's really kind of like 197 00:12:11,300 --> 00:12:12,900 she's one of the most kind people, I know. 198 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:18,500 Mmm, and she's here for me forever and that's important. 199 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,100 Yeah, I know. My mom is too. 200 00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:24,500 It's one of my best friends. So what about your dad? 201 00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:27,700 Do you do meet him? Find him. 202 00:12:28,100 --> 00:12:33,500 I did, and Was a rough one that didn't happen. 203 00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:40,600 Until my later 30s. I took a DNA test because my 204 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,500 biological mom didn't. She didn't know who he was. 205 00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:46,800 She actually had his last name incorrect. 206 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,100 I mean, they were teenagers. So it's not to me. 207 00:12:49,100 --> 00:12:54,100 That's not like that weird. But so I get the DNA test back 208 00:12:54,100 --> 00:12:59,800 and I was actually more just wondering about my Heritage and 209 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,400 I knew all this stuff about My biological mother's side but 210 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,300 nothing about the other side. Kind of with a genetic mirroring 211 00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:08,400 piece. It's like, I think I wanted to 212 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:13,900 see what cultural situation. I was coming from just so I 213 00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:17,900 could see myself better. Yeah, that's, you know, I was 214 00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:21,700 grasping for straws with like, I don't know if you've experienced 215 00:13:21,700 --> 00:13:25,500 this but like I thought I was weird looking and like, 216 00:13:25,900 --> 00:13:30,000 different strange-looking person like, for my entire life and I 217 00:13:30,008 --> 00:13:31,300 didn't know how to explain In that. 218 00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:34,300 But my face just did not sit right with me forever. 219 00:13:34,300 --> 00:13:36,800 I was just like, what is got like, you have? 220 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,700 Such a strange, look, I thought it was I didn't look like anyone 221 00:13:39,700 --> 00:13:42,800 in my community, and then I realized it was like my family. 222 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,400 And that, yeah, I'm taller than everyone. 223 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,200 My bone structures larger than everyone my Smiles. 224 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,800 Someone a little bit similar we all have dark hair and dark 225 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,300 eyes, so it kind of fits in but that was kind of a crisis for 226 00:13:55,300 --> 00:13:57,900 me. So that's why I took the test. 227 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:04,700 I ended up being linked to To the Chesley family, which isn't 228 00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:08,000 my biological father's family because my grandfather was 229 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,700 adopted, so, it was like that double adoption situation. 230 00:14:11,700 --> 00:14:14,400 Mmm. And so, it made things a little 231 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,600 bit tricky. But there's my cousin Kimberly. 232 00:14:17,900 --> 00:14:22,800 She is this major, you know, genealogy fanatic. 233 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,300 So she had put together this massive family tree and we were 234 00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:30,200 like, okay, we have to figure out like where you fed and so 235 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,100 we're trying it. And I'm like I think it could be 236 00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:37,400 this guy and she's like it can't be because in around when you 237 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:41,100 were born he was in jail and I was like okay there's like 238 00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:43,500 nobody else that this could be on this test. 239 00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:47,600 Like literally I'm like and his brother was dead before they 240 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,600 were just the two boys and so I was like a has to be hemmed if 241 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,600 his brother passed away in 81 and you know I'm having this 242 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,900 conversation out loud and like not knowing any things going on 243 00:14:58,900 --> 00:15:03,300 and then finally actually A couple of years later, somebody 244 00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:07,400 took a test and I matched with his mother's side so it became 245 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:12,000 clear that that was my father and I was like somebody totally 246 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,900 different. No, it was the guy that I was 247 00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:17,400 talking about where they were like, couldn't be him. 248 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,400 He was in jail and I was like okay. 249 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:25,400 Uh and so I then came to find out that he killed his brother 250 00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:29,400 Matt then. It was all the court documents. 251 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,200 I guess it's manslaughter people in the family, don't see it that 252 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,800 way. I don't know what to believe 253 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,900 because I've heard some stories from him that are pretty 254 00:15:38,100 --> 00:15:41,100 traumatizing. Yeah, that was really hard 255 00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:43,900 learning. That was really hard and 256 00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:47,900 something. Also that just hit me recently. 257 00:15:47,900 --> 00:15:52,300 As I keep saying he killed his brother, not my uncle, like I 258 00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:55,700 know that doesn't sound like a big deal, maybe to other people 259 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,500 outside of our community. They would Like, well, you know, 260 00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:04,100 not really because urine family or whatever, but it's hard for 261 00:16:04,100 --> 00:16:08,100 me to always wrap my mind around the relationship of these people 262 00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:12,000 and he actually still, I don't think he sees me, I think he 263 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,300 sees me as his kid and that I'm not a part of that family which 264 00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:19,500 is fine by me. Hmm in that situation. 265 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:25,600 So that was rough. Yeah, so how I mean that is your 266 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,500 dad, was he in jail? When you're, I mean, I happen 267 00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:34,500 like right before or what? No, he was because there was 268 00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:39,900 cocaine and alcohol involved. He was in a rehab facility and 269 00:16:39,900 --> 00:16:43,300 that's where he met my biological mother and they 270 00:16:43,300 --> 00:16:48,600 hooked up in her car. Okay, then there's me. 271 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,900 Yeah. So what relationship do you have 272 00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:58,300 with your biological family? Now my biological mom, I don't 273 00:16:58,300 --> 00:17:01,700 know if this what her to hear this but she feels like a big 274 00:17:01,700 --> 00:17:04,500 sister to me. Mmm, totally get that. 275 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,500 I was adopted by Boomers and she's a gen Gen X. 276 00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:14,800 I almost said, Jen see, she's Jen acts and my parents are 277 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:19,300 boomers and so is my grandma. So my grandma was like Teen Mom. 278 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,599 She was kind of too. So it's this weird shift. 279 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:25,800 We're like my grandmother is closer in age to my dad, My 280 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,200 adoptive father then. Then my biological mom. 281 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:33,600 So she and I are both. I mean, it's creepy. 282 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,800 I'm one of those situations where it's just like, whoa. 283 00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:41,000 Like I'm like her mini me. Well yeah, that's a weird. 284 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,800 Especially like what you're saying you grow up, not having 285 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,100 anything mirrored like that and then you it's like looking in 286 00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:47,700 the mirror. I believe it. 287 00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:53,300 Prevented me from discovering crucial parts of my identity. 288 00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:58,900 Not knowing a lot about what was going on with her, because she 289 00:17:58,900 --> 00:18:02,800 and I are so similar and have so many, similar undone, seas and 290 00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:05,700 interests and just all of this stuff. 291 00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:09,800 So, I feel like, I'm like a late Discovery person. 292 00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:17,200 And for myself, like, you know, how I am now is nowhere close to 293 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,300 how I was when I was still in the fog. 294 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,100 Yeah, well, I like you were saying, even those little 295 00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:25,200 nuances like you were talking about, Uncle and you don't call 296 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,100 him your uncle. It's just those little things 297 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,800 that are huge to us and you know, like you don't realize it 298 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,900 till you know that you were doing that because things that 299 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,900 other people just kind of take for granted and we have to 300 00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:42,100 struggle with with the relationship with her birth 301 00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:43,400 mother, I kind of felt the same way. 302 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:48,000 I felt like my birth mother was like a cool aunt or a cousin or, 303 00:18:48,100 --> 00:18:51,400 you know, something like that. Because we were so much alike. 304 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,100 We looked alike. We had like this. 305 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:59,100 The same inflections and our voice or like even movements and 306 00:18:59,100 --> 00:19:01,000 stuff even the way we laughed. Yeah. 307 00:19:01,100 --> 00:19:03,000 We kind of laughed the same, you know. 308 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,400 So it was kind of like that was kind of like having a best 309 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,100 friend relative though. You know. 310 00:19:07,100 --> 00:19:09,300 Yeah to me. I totally get it. 311 00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:11,300 Yeah. So what about your dad are? 312 00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:16,400 You're still in contact with him and well um exact off a little 313 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:23,600 she kind of freaks me out and he believes like all of this crazy 314 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,800 stuff. That's Happens in his life with, 315 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:31,500 you know, his brother and his family that Lake Jesus has saved 316 00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:35,500 everybody. So I'm like, you know, I'm not 317 00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:39,000 going to criticize your belief system but he tries to impress 318 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,100 that on me quite a bit. Mmm. 319 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,700 Yeah. And I wrote in my journal, which 320 00:19:44,700 --> 00:19:49,200 I didn't see until recently, from my first trip that I said, 321 00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:53,900 from my first visit with him, did he care more about me or 322 00:19:53,900 --> 00:20:01,000 like, Like converting me or saving me or jamming, the Bible 323 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,400 down my throat. Do you know what I mean? 324 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:08,500 And, yeah, it was really hard. Yeah, trip was rough Montana. 325 00:20:10,700 --> 00:20:13,900 So you did say, though, in that article, that your biological 326 00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:16,400 father made, you feel seen? Yes. 327 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:21,700 What did you mean by that? I have a lot of issues, physical 328 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,600 mental health, all of that stuff. 329 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,800 And To see where it's coming from and to just be able to 330 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,400 freely, talk about invisible illness and not have people say, 331 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,100 I don't get it or judge you like, I've been judged my entire 332 00:20:34,100 --> 00:20:38,000 life was like, actually very incredible experience and it 333 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,600 made me stop wondering, like, where is this coming from? 334 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,400 Why is this happening to me? You know, the mystery medical 335 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,400 history? Mmm, I was going to the doctor 8 336 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,900 billion times. Something was always wrong with 337 00:20:49,900 --> 00:20:51,600 me. Always trying some new 338 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,800 experimental stuff, always, you know. 339 00:20:54,300 --> 00:20:57,500 Mixing it up with medication or, you know, whatever and doctors 340 00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:00,900 being like, what the hell. And then I end up learning a lot 341 00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:06,000 from him, observing him. Then him actually, he'd sees 342 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,600 told me some stuff about the physical, but I've observed 343 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,700 mental health issues in him that I don't think he's aware things 344 00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:16,100 that were passed down to you. Maybe, I think he copes with 345 00:21:16,100 --> 00:21:21,800 mental illness with a religion. So, I think he thinks You know 346 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,600 mental health episodes are like the devil trying to take him 347 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,800 down or I don't know it's hard for me because I'm very into 348 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:35,600 psychology because I felt like I had to be out at a young age so 349 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,700 I can clearly see things but I also don't want to make like 350 00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:44,500 harmful assumptions and you know label has him as anything that 351 00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:48,200 he may not be right. How is your relationship with 352 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,100 your adoptive siblings? Then, did that ever happen? 353 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:59,000 Y'all are so I don't know about the adoptive siblings situation. 354 00:21:59,100 --> 00:22:03,200 Oh, the adoptive siblings. Sorry like we did. 355 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,000 I talk about my biological siblings. 356 00:22:05,900 --> 00:22:08,100 No, I'm estranged. And it's been that way for about 357 00:22:08,100 --> 00:22:10,100 two and a half years. It's the most painful thing I've 358 00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:11,600 ever gone through in my entire life. 359 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,800 Their nieces and nephew involved. 360 00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:17,200 No one's interested in communicating and I'm talking 361 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,300 about like there's just no family communication. 362 00:22:19,300 --> 00:22:21,500 There's like a ton of gaslighting going on There's a 363 00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:25,200 ton of you know, just assumptions being made and 364 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,300 people not being kind or compassionate and it's honestly 365 00:22:29,300 --> 00:22:31,600 been one of the most soul-crushing experiences I've 366 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,000 ever had. But the space that I have had 367 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,900 has helped me see so much that I've needed to see about myself 368 00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:42,700 and my family. So I hope that we can reconcile 369 00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:44,900 one day. That would be the dream. 370 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,000 Yeah. So you guys don't do holidays 371 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,300 like at your parents all together. 372 00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:53,700 Oh no, they Dead behind my back, my dad. 373 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:59,500 And I went to my dad's office and saw were like, the Detroit 374 00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:02,900 Athletic Club is this huge, like, kind of family deal every 375 00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:05,600 year for us for the holidays, and there's a portrait every 376 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,200 year. And I walked into my dad's 377 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,100 office to have coffee with him. And there was all of the, the 378 00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:13,400 two new babies that I don't even know. 379 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,400 Like, all of these people, my family in this portrait and I 380 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:21,000 just was like, oh my God, like you couldn't even tell me that. 381 00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:25,100 That was going on. Wow, how hurtful I would 382 00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:28,000 understand? Well, and it's because I'm the 383 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:33,600 I'm the one that I initiated the estrangement I believe my 384 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:40,400 siblings like to believe that this is they're doing, but it 385 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,600 happened. When I found out that I didn't 386 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:48,600 know my actual birthday. My biological mom was like, you 387 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,100 know something I haven't told you your whole life. 388 00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:53,700 Because I was like worried it was just going to really hurt 389 00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:57,200 you and this is during the pandemic and I just collapsed, I 390 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:02,200 had my first major depressive episode and the way back up 391 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,800 here, how did you not know much about what happened with the 392 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,600 birthday thing? Okay, the birthday thing is is 393 00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:14,300 it's not unbelievable. I talk to a family lawyer in 394 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,900 Cook County in Illinois, which is where this occurred, the baby 395 00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:21,800 broker had the girls give birth At a hospital. 396 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,100 In his hometown, in Skokie, I not in Chicago where they were 397 00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:28,000 living which I think is so sketchy. 398 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,200 So I talk to this lawyer and I was telling him the whole 399 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,700 situation and he was like the 80s were like, you know, a hot 400 00:24:34,700 --> 00:24:38,600 mess and just, there wasn't the internet that technology was 401 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,000 different, people could change that, you know, documentation of 402 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,200 things was just not as closely monitored. 403 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:50,200 And so it's possible that they tried to close the gap on her to 404 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,500 not be able to To change her. Mind by changing my birthday by 405 00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:58,300 a few days, but also birth moms are really traumatized in their 406 00:24:58,300 --> 00:25:01,500 trauma can cause Amnesia. So, I don't even know what's 407 00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:05,100 true. And it has been really 408 00:25:05,300 --> 00:25:10,300 disruptive every year. It's like, I feel like my brain 409 00:25:10,300 --> 00:25:13,000 goes completely sideways around my birthday. 410 00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:16,500 There's no hospital records to look up. 411 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:23,700 I've tried the Just like, it seems like every place that any 412 00:25:23,700 --> 00:25:27,900 of us seem to look have like either at a flutter burned down 413 00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:29,400 or like, you know. Yeah. 414 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,000 So it's just like what the hell insurance rates must be insane 415 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,800 at this point. Then for agencies, if you're all 416 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:41,200 burning down and flooding, I know, I just am trying to let it 417 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,400 go and just with the birthday that I know just to, like, keep 418 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,200 it moving because I problems. Otherwise. 419 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,700 Yeah. Oh my gosh. 420 00:25:50,300 --> 00:25:53,100 So you we brought up the biological siblings for a 421 00:25:53,108 --> 00:25:55,800 second. So how many biological siblings 422 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,600 do you have? And so, are you in contact with 423 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,900 them? Yeah, one brother and I have 424 00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:04,900 more than that, but he's the only one I'm in touch with and 425 00:26:04,900 --> 00:26:10,500 he is the nicest human being, and he is in North Dakota with 426 00:26:10,500 --> 00:26:16,900 my biological mom and my other brother from her as kind of out 427 00:26:16,900 --> 00:26:20,800 of the picture. And then there's Not really a 428 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,700 clear understanding with my biological father, he believes 429 00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:29,400 that he had a daughter before me, but I don't know. 430 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:34,600 There's also a boy. I guess it's really scared that 431 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,500 situation is really. I don't know how to explain it. 432 00:26:38,300 --> 00:26:42,700 It could literally be a movie situation is like it's scary. 433 00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:47,100 It's like Off the Grid. Like weird people praying over 434 00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:49,700 me in tongues when I'm visiting kind of crap. 435 00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:54,000 My gosh, so, like, you know, they grew up in this, this town 436 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,300 of less than 1,000 people all in. 437 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:02,200 It just doesn't seem like their social structure or rules were 438 00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:06,700 as composed as how they were all over the place. 439 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,400 I don't honestly, what, I don't know. 440 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,200 It's real it with him. So you didn't come up with 441 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,500 anything in your DNA about that side as far as siblings. 442 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:21,500 Hmm, so let's talk about the fog and you said that you came out 443 00:27:21,500 --> 00:27:23,400 of the fog. But, you know, it kind of sounds 444 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:28,000 like it's layers. There's layers of fog that 445 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,600 you're coming out of and still coming out of. 446 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,800 So you want to talk about that for a second? 447 00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:38,300 Yes the kind of precipitating event in my mind, it seems to 448 00:27:38,300 --> 00:27:41,600 change. Sometimes, I don't know if that 449 00:27:41,900 --> 00:27:45,200 would resonate with people but I think the more I learn in the 450 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,100 more I come The fog, the more I realize I was starting to come 451 00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:52,100 out of the fog maybe earlier than I thought. 452 00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:57,400 I had this event. I was leaving North Dakota and I 453 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,300 was going to my boyfriend's house at the time in Salt Lake 454 00:28:00,700 --> 00:28:05,600 and I pulled into his driveway. And I called my sister to tell 455 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,300 her that I found out my biological father, like, killed 456 00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:10,000 his brother and I was devastated. 457 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,300 And she goes, why can't you just be grateful for what you have 458 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:22,200 Emily. And I was like, I lost it. 459 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,800 And this poor guy that I was seeing our holiday is just we're 460 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,400 not fun. It was like, because it was just 461 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,500 what I was searching for my biological father. 462 00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:34,000 I was doing all this stuff so it was just becoming clear to me 463 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,300 just how like screwed up. Things were mmm. 464 00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:40,400 And that my biological mother called me and was like, I heard 465 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,300 you were looking for your biological father. 466 00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:45,400 And what do you know? And she like knew about this and 467 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,500 it Like then I realized I wasn't totally told everything and then 468 00:28:49,700 --> 00:28:51,500 everything just started to get strange. 469 00:28:51,500 --> 00:28:55,200 And then I left the relationship that I was in and we were we 470 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,500 went, we went to the ring store and we were like talking about 471 00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:02,000 getting married and having children and I had had a 472 00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:05,900 laparoscopic whatever Blake's laparoscopy. 473 00:29:05,900 --> 00:29:09,300 I had the whole thing with endometriosis and stuff so I can 474 00:29:09,300 --> 00:29:13,200 have a kid. I remember that and then he was 475 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,500 like we can't do that until you move back. 476 00:29:15,700 --> 00:29:18,900 Back to Salt Lake and you're here permanently and I was like, 477 00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:22,300 okay. And so I went back and it was 478 00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:26,600 just evident to me that I didn't know what was going on in my 479 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,000 life. I had no idea like all of these 480 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,800 things just kept popping into my brain. 481 00:29:32,900 --> 00:29:36,700 It was scary. It was just regulating I had 482 00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:39,000 undiagnosed mental health issues. 483 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,200 I had premenstrual dysphoric disorder, which I was trying to. 484 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,200 We were trying to escalate getting married to have kids, so 485 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,900 I could My uterus removed and many are trees removed. 486 00:29:48,900 --> 00:29:53,200 So I could have some mental health relief and it was a mess, 487 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,400 it became totally chaotic. So, looking back, you know, I've 488 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:04,000 apologized to Andrew and I it's a very sore subject for me that 489 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,200 relationship because I feel like that was like the only time that 490 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:13,500 I was prepared to have children with someone to get married to 491 00:30:13,500 --> 00:30:20,600 somebody and I can't have children now and I don't have 492 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,600 any. So, it's hard to look back on 493 00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:29,200 because I made all of these choices after that to, you know, 494 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,900 to figure out who I am in, to work through my trauma, instead 495 00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:38,400 of staying in that relationship and in some ways, I feel like I 496 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,100 sabotage everything with him because I thought he would leave 497 00:30:42,100 --> 00:30:49,500 me if he, like continued to Experience that chaos and I felt 498 00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:52,700 like he deserved better and I may not have said things at the 499 00:30:52,700 --> 00:30:55,100 time. That would lead him to believe 500 00:30:55,100 --> 00:30:59,400 that, but that is how I felt and it was heart breaking, it was 501 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,200 gut-wrenching. Leaving that house, was so sad 502 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,000 and it did not go down. Well, ultimately but so things 503 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,600 after that, just started to kind of unfold and I started learning 504 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,800 more about the truth about my adoption and some really messed 505 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:19,600 up things that went on And I was listening actually to think that 506 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,700 that was my coming out of the fog and that there were maybe a 507 00:31:22,700 --> 00:31:26,100 couple of other events. I was like, all right, I'm out 508 00:31:26,100 --> 00:31:27,900 of the fog like I know what's going on. 509 00:31:27,900 --> 00:31:30,600 I'm going to be writing in my blog and like talking about 510 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,300 adoption and then I go and listen to your podcast just to 511 00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:35,700 like get familiar with the whole thing. 512 00:31:35,700 --> 00:31:41,600 And Greg Gentry said, foster care about being an 513 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,500 observational period. I didn't know. 514 00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:51,900 That and it came crashing down. Like I have literally been a 515 00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:56,700 mess for days over this and it was like, I started realizing 516 00:31:57,300 --> 00:32:00,500 that was the one piece that I didn't know why was I in foster 517 00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:04,300 care for three and a half weeks, like why was I there if my 518 00:32:04,300 --> 00:32:07,900 parents wanted me so bad and they were waiting for me and I 519 00:32:07,900 --> 00:32:10,500 had been delivered and they knew about me. 520 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,700 Why didn't they just come get me? 521 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:18,700 Yeah, and so I heard that And I can't believe and again, not 522 00:32:18,700 --> 00:32:21,300 something people outside of the adopted Community would 523 00:32:21,300 --> 00:32:24,900 understand why that's a big deal to feel like a commodity like 524 00:32:24,900 --> 00:32:31,200 that is disgusting Comet izing and I therapy last night and I 525 00:32:31,208 --> 00:32:35,100 told my therapist and she was like, you know, this like one 526 00:32:35,100 --> 00:32:39,200 abandonment after another is like, of course, going to cause 527 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,500 attachment problems. So then my mom tells me. 528 00:32:43,300 --> 00:32:45,500 Well, now this makes sense like you. 529 00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:49,300 To be so wild. When I would try to put you down 530 00:32:49,300 --> 00:32:56,100 for naps and as a child, like I was not having it like I was not 531 00:32:56,100 --> 00:32:58,900 okay with her, putting me down for naps and I was like, I 532 00:32:58,908 --> 00:33:04,200 probably thought you were going to leave me and then it clicked? 533 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,500 Yes. I think last night or maybe a 534 00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:09,700 little before I was like, wait a second. 535 00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:14,100 Like I can't take naps. Like I cannot, I tried and I 536 00:33:14,108 --> 00:33:18,200 have, like, I can fall Asleep sometimes, but like, in terms of 537 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,600 being like a person who can just close their eyes and take a nap 538 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,100 or like right, you know, it's a chore for me. 539 00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:26,000 I have like electricity going through my body. 540 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,400 It feels like when I try to take naps and there have been times 541 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,400 that I've woke up having nightmares and dreams about my 542 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:38,200 mom dying and is this really that connected like is that 543 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,100 possible? And you know, I'm reading a lot 544 00:33:42,100 --> 00:33:45,100 right now in a book club about epigenetics and it's just like 545 00:33:45,100 --> 00:33:50,800 stuffs So intense, I don't think people if we aren't even aware 546 00:33:51,100 --> 00:33:56,200 of how Insidious and awful this trauma was, we can't remember 547 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:57,700 what happened. Yeah. 548 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,400 How are you supposed to heal from this? 549 00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:03,200 And of course, people are just going to minimize it because 550 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,800 they don't know what to say. Hmm, exactly. 551 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,400 Yeah. Super uncomfortable subject and 552 00:34:10,699 --> 00:34:15,300 people just don't want to have these hard conversations, or 553 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,800 They think it's unnecessary and just like, why can't you just 554 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,699 move on? You know what I mean? 555 00:34:20,699 --> 00:34:22,900 That's like, I have to answer this so you can. 556 00:34:22,900 --> 00:34:25,300 Thank. I'm a downer crazy nightmare all 557 00:34:25,300 --> 00:34:28,300 you want, but I have to get to the other end of this myself, 558 00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:29,800 right? Yeah. 559 00:34:30,300 --> 00:34:33,900 So true. So you said that your adoptive 560 00:34:33,900 --> 00:34:36,600 parents are on the adoption Journey with you. 561 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:41,400 What do you mean by that? They have really my mom has 562 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,000 like, kind of created a space for me where I can talk about 563 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,800 anything that's adoption. Dated staying with my dad and 564 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,800 nobody is saying that didn't happen to you. 565 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:57,000 No one's saying this isn't real. No one is saying B, note, 566 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,700 whatever. I think they feel bad because 567 00:34:58,700 --> 00:35:01,400 they didn't believe me about like a ton of things for a long 568 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,100 time. And I was becoming obvious that 569 00:35:03,100 --> 00:35:06,200 I have these problems. So they're just trying to help 570 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,000 me get through this as much as they can. 571 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,600 And my adopted father lost his mother when he was an infant. 572 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:19,000 And I was like, you realize like you have the Primal wound, also, 573 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,900 his brother's adopted and all of a sudden it was like, probably 574 00:35:21,900 --> 00:35:30,200 because I made it about him, he cared, but it was like a lot of 575 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:35,000 things. Yeah, what helps you cope with 576 00:35:35,100 --> 00:35:37,300 your physical and mental struggles. 577 00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:40,100 What's worked for you? Because I always see like, 578 00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:44,100 therapy and stuff works. But then a lot of people seek 579 00:35:44,100 --> 00:35:48,700 other more non-traditional therapies to that seemed to help 580 00:35:48,700 --> 00:35:51,200 adoptee trauma. So what it helps you? 581 00:35:51,300 --> 00:35:53,600 What have you found myofascial release. 582 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,200 Massage is really helpful for me. 583 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,000 My God. That's so painful, right? 584 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,500 Died. Having that done, I love it. 585 00:36:01,700 --> 00:36:06,200 It. I sweat, it's hurt so bad. 586 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:11,100 I found an adoptee myofascial release specialist in Cody 587 00:36:11,100 --> 00:36:16,500 Wyoming when I was living there briefly and we had the best 588 00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:19,200 sessions ever and she was like I can see like you had some 589 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,500 birthing trauma around your neck and I'm like oh you have to go 590 00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:27,000 with John F Barnes trained myofascial release specialist. 591 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,800 They're the ones that can like tap your energy into like moving 592 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,600 around your body. Instead of being trapped, he's 593 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,400 kind of like the Godfather of that bracket. 594 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:37,900 Yeah. I didn't, I did not feel any 595 00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:43,100 release, like I was tightening more and I even told her because 596 00:36:43,100 --> 00:36:47,400 I can handle pain. Like I'm you know, and I had to 597 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,800 like cry Uncle. I was like, that's really 598 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,200 hurting. And she's like, well, you can 599 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,700 cast if you want to. I'm like, no, I'm telling you to 600 00:36:55,700 --> 00:36:57,900 stop but you're like my, I'm just saying. 601 00:36:57,900 --> 00:37:00,500 Don't do it anymore. I'm gonna punch you right now. 602 00:37:02,700 --> 00:37:07,000 So and I so that helped you. And what else? 603 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:12,600 Writing I have a sub stack blog. That's called out of the fog and 604 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,800 it is pretty depressing but it's where I like to make my mental 605 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,900 connections about all of this stuff and I love to write so 606 00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:25,600 that I am getting back into composing. 607 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,300 What I would call Contemporary classical music, which I started 608 00:37:28,300 --> 00:37:31,200 doing when I was very young cool. 609 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:37,300 And my Arts which is like my just life wine. 610 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,200 And I've made a couple of pieces that are about adoption that. 611 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,800 I think you can really tell that they are probably everything is 612 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,400 but you can see in a couple of my pieces, I think what I'm 613 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:55,000 doing and it's also conscious. I'm like a an artist that really 614 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,600 is more about the process and about the outcome. 615 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,300 So I just don't ever go into anything with a plan. 616 00:38:01,700 --> 00:38:05,500 Commissions are really hard for me and that's what I do for my 617 00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:08,900 job. So I often take like end up 618 00:38:08,900 --> 00:38:11,900 running through like way too many supplies and too much 619 00:38:11,900 --> 00:38:14,900 canvas to like get to the point. But you know, people saying, I 620 00:38:14,908 --> 00:38:17,800 like this color and I like this color and I'm like, yeah, start 621 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,400 the painting. And I'm like, that's not what it 622 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,100 is in its best interest, doing it? 623 00:38:23,500 --> 00:38:25,700 Yeah. I used to make wedding cakes in 624 00:38:25,707 --> 00:38:27,800 the same thing. Like they say, I want this met, 625 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,300 and then you start putting it together near like. 626 00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:35,300 That's not gonna look good now. And stop doing it too much. 627 00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:37,400 Stress is like, I can't make that look good. 628 00:38:37,500 --> 00:38:39,000 You know you're not going to be happy with it. 629 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,600 I was thinking about doing a show at some point with adoptee 630 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,000 kind of artwork. Yeah, that would be cool. 631 00:38:47,100 --> 00:38:51,700 Yeah, just to show, I mean, the stuffs dark, it's like my 632 00:38:51,700 --> 00:38:54,500 biological mother tells me that my Works disturbing all the 633 00:38:54,500 --> 00:39:01,000 time, but that's me and I can't, I can't take that away from 634 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,400 myself. If I want to do stuff that might 635 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,000 be disturbing to other people or look disturbing to other people 636 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,800 than. So yeah, I'm done living for 637 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,400 others. It's over. 638 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,400 Yeah. So do you sell like Prince of 639 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,100 these sir? Can we see them somewhere? 640 00:39:18,100 --> 00:39:19,100 Do you have them? Yeah. 641 00:39:19,100 --> 00:39:23,700 On Instagram at Emily. Albert art and then I don't have 642 00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:27,100 my Etsy store open right now where I did have a couple of 643 00:39:27,100 --> 00:39:30,800 prints. They were more like I had a Ruth 644 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,000 Bader. Tribute print kind of fell, 645 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:39,200 pretty big in 2020 and so I just use that platform for for sales 646 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,000 for that but I'm working on a website slowly, but surely. 647 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,400 And I think I need to get through the commission's that I 648 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:52,400 have before I can start making art for me again, and to start, 649 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:53,900 you know, opening that kind of thing up. 650 00:39:53,900 --> 00:39:56,800 And, but my Instagram for right now is probably just the best 651 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,100 way to look at what I'm doing. I'm also on Facebook at Emily 652 00:40:00,100 --> 00:40:02,800 Albert art. Is anything for sale? 653 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,100 Everything's for sale, that's not listed as a commission, I'll 654 00:40:06,100 --> 00:40:09,100 sell whatever. And okay, I really believe my 655 00:40:09,100 --> 00:40:11,600 art is meant to just art in general. 656 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,900 Is meant to be shared and that's I don't need to hoard my own art 657 00:40:15,900 --> 00:40:19,900 even though I love some of it. There people do experience that 658 00:40:19,900 --> 00:40:21,800 too. And what about your blog is that 659 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,900 public? Yeah, anyone can read that. 660 00:40:23,900 --> 00:40:26,400 It's will put all those links in the show notes. 661 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,500 Make sure you get those to me so we can put them in there. 662 00:40:28,700 --> 00:40:33,700 So you say you are a Neurodivergent adoptee and I've 663 00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:36,400 never heard of that before. Can you tell me what that is? 664 00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:41,000 Well, it's multiplying neurodivergent, is the term and 665 00:40:41,100 --> 00:40:45,700 multiple neurodiversity. 'S although I don't think that 666 00:40:45,700 --> 00:40:50,000 really makes sense because you're just neurodiverse, which 667 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:54,500 I noticed a lot of adoptees identify as neurodivergent or 668 00:40:54,500 --> 00:40:56,700 neurodiverse. Whichever term you choose to use 669 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,200 but multiple neurodivergent means that I have a number of 670 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:06,200 things going on 80 HD autism. I have bipolar, which is a new 671 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,700 diagnosis and hilarious that it was a shock to me and nobody 672 00:41:10,700 --> 00:41:23,100 else then I have OCD and complex post-traumatic stress disorder. 673 00:41:23,100 --> 00:41:27,600 And so, those are some major neurodiversity, zits, some 674 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,600 pretty challenging things to live with. 675 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,600 I'm a highly sensitive person. And so, Medications don't really 676 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,100 work for me. So I'm on very low dose 677 00:41:36,100 --> 00:41:40,000 medications and I have to work at self-regulating and being 678 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,200 Mindful and it's like everyday is a chore to get through with 679 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,100 this kind of brain but I'm not giving up. 680 00:41:46,100 --> 00:41:51,400 Hope, I recently recently started taking Lithium which 681 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:57,600 changed my life and I'm on a very low dose but it is lithium 682 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,700 sobriety and artwork. I always liked. 683 00:42:00,700 --> 00:42:02,600 Those are the things. Is that are really getting me 684 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,600 through right now. Yeah, and how important is it 685 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,100 for you to have that support system? 686 00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:11,300 Not only like the adopt be support system, but even outside 687 00:42:11,300 --> 00:42:14,400 of adoptees, it sounds like you have some friends that are there 688 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,100 through thick and thin. So, how important is that for 689 00:42:17,100 --> 00:42:22,000 you? Well, for somebody like me who 690 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,700 has I hate how stigmatized mental health problems are and 691 00:42:26,100 --> 00:42:32,200 how stigmatized trauma is. I have a really solid Eyelid 692 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,900 like group there, it's actually less of a group and some of them 693 00:42:35,900 --> 00:42:38,700 are friends with each other, but I have quite a few girlfriends 694 00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:44,500 and guy friends and Michigan where I am, and I'm very open 695 00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:48,000 about what goes on, in my life, just to be clear, like, this is 696 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,700 who I am and this is what's going on. 697 00:42:49,700 --> 00:42:51,700 If you want to stick around, stick around. 698 00:42:51,700 --> 00:42:54,000 If you don't then get the fuck out of my like. 699 00:42:54,100 --> 00:42:56,700 Yeah. And so I have friends that are 700 00:42:56,700 --> 00:43:00,600 in no community and are just awesome friends that I have. 701 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:06,100 And Would drop anything to have breakfast with me if I'm feeling 702 00:43:06,100 --> 00:43:08,400 down or whatever. Because a lot of people I think 703 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,700 can relate to either a family member having an issue that they 704 00:43:11,700 --> 00:43:13,700 love. Or if they have issues that 705 00:43:13,700 --> 00:43:16,100 they're unaware of, and they just feel like it's relatable, I 706 00:43:16,107 --> 00:43:19,400 don't know. But this recovery Community has 707 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,600 very quickly become a 7:00 a.m. meeting is for me. 708 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,400 I have to do it that puts my brain right on track, I have a 709 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:31,400 sponsor who has said to me, you're going to have to fire me. 710 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:37,300 In order for me to leave you, well she's very aware of my like 711 00:43:37,300 --> 00:43:42,600 abandonment sensitivities and she is never once minimized the 712 00:43:42,700 --> 00:43:45,500 the traumas or anything or like she doesn't say stuff like. 713 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,200 But if you think about it this way or what do you know, she's 714 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:55,000 really like girl. This is some heavy shit like and 715 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,400 but she's in, she just but in a good way, you know what I mean? 716 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,800 Who says that to adoptees, we don't hear that like, Don't 717 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,900 sympathize with it, they don't. That's all you have to say, 718 00:44:04,900 --> 00:44:06,800 really. It's all you have to say is 719 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,300 damn, that sucks. I mean, yeah, I didn't, I've 720 00:44:10,300 --> 00:44:12,900 never thought of it that way or whatever, but people get so 721 00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:16,100 uncomfortable and they just shut down but that's cool. 722 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,200 It is cool to have friends like that McGee. 723 00:44:19,500 --> 00:44:24,800 So lastly, what would you tell struggling adoptees, what do you 724 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:29,600 want them to know? Well, I think I said in that 725 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,100 article that I wrote, like if I can do this, You can do this 726 00:44:32,100 --> 00:44:35,400 too. I have a lot of problems and I'm 727 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,200 not minimizing anyone else's issues. 728 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,400 I'm just saying that. If you have issues and you're 729 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,000 struggling, there is a way through. 730 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:46,700 It is, just very complicated abstract and in not going to be 731 00:44:46,700 --> 00:44:49,500 clear to you, how you're going to make your way through. 732 00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:53,700 But the one day at a time mentality has become crucial for 733 00:44:53,700 --> 00:44:58,300 me acceptance that, you know, this is one of the steps is 734 00:44:58,300 --> 00:45:01,400 acceptance and admitting powerlessness. 735 00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:03,300 Over something. And just as much as I'm 736 00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:06,300 powerless over drugs and alcohol, I am powerless over my 737 00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:10,100 Primal wound. And so if I can submit to that 738 00:45:10,100 --> 00:45:14,900 and just accept, what's happening and not fight or 739 00:45:14,900 --> 00:45:19,500 resist, experiencing emotions in a healthy way, things do get 740 00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:22,000 easier. These episodes of being just 741 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,500 struggling and going through just these painful things, it 742 00:45:25,500 --> 00:45:31,000 will resolve life gets better. If you feel stuck, I love doing 743 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:32,100 this. I Journal. 744 00:45:32,100 --> 00:45:36,500 And I write down a list of things that I've done for the 745 00:45:36,500 --> 00:45:41,100 day and I'm like, well you can't lie to your Journal, so then I 746 00:45:41,100 --> 00:45:45,800 make myself do them and that is been a way to push through some 747 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,000 of the mental paralysis. That I think you can have when 748 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,400 you're severely. Traumatized also does to stay 749 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,600 connected with other people even if you feel a resistance to it, 750 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,000 I know that the adoptee community triggered me at first 751 00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:02,100 really badly, I really struggled with that and then I'm trying to 752 00:46:02,100 --> 00:46:07,000 just put myself into situations more where because I was the 753 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,500 only adoptee I'd ever heard. I probably, you know what I 754 00:46:09,508 --> 00:46:11,000 mean? I didn't want it. 755 00:46:11,300 --> 00:46:16,700 I was like this is all this shit in my time coming out like no. 756 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,400 And then I wanted to say all the things other people said to me, 757 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:21,900 that we are toxic to these people. 758 00:46:21,900 --> 00:46:25,600 I was just bad at first, so I like that got a hard time, but 759 00:46:25,900 --> 00:46:28,900 getting involved in staying connected and talking to people 760 00:46:28,900 --> 00:46:31,200 like yourself. It may have friends. 761 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,000 Yeah, we have to educate the world. 762 00:46:35,100 --> 00:46:37,600 Is there anything else that you wanted to cover? 763 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:42,000 That I didn't ask no I just appreciate the conversation. 764 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,300 It's helpful to me and it helps me on my journey like I said to 765 00:46:46,300 --> 00:46:49,300 talk to other adopted people and to connect with new people which 766 00:46:49,300 --> 00:46:53,300 hopefully I will after this comes out and yeah, just thank 767 00:46:53,300 --> 00:46:56,900 you. What a great conversation I had 768 00:46:56,900 --> 00:46:59,600 with the Molly and I am so glad to have met her. 769 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:01,600 She is such a great soul. Cole. 770 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,000 And I want to thank her again for coming on. 771 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,100 Mind your own Karma and helping educate the world about 772 00:47:07,100 --> 00:47:11,300 adoption. You know, mental illness is a 773 00:47:11,300 --> 00:47:14,300 huge thing in the adoptee community. 774 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:19,900 And so many of us have gone undiagnosed and it is important 775 00:47:19,900 --> 00:47:24,800 to get diagnosed only because it helps you understand you. 776 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:27,900 And you can use that as a superpower. 777 00:47:28,300 --> 00:47:31,300 It's really a gift. It's part of your essence. 778 00:47:31,500 --> 00:47:35,400 Part of who you are and it's part of what you were put on 779 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,700 this planet to do so, seek professional help and testing if 780 00:47:39,700 --> 00:47:43,600 you feel that you might have a psychiatric disability. 781 00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:46,800 Thank you. Emily for opening up and being 782 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,400 so honest about your multiplying neuro Divergence. 783 00:47:51,100 --> 00:47:54,200 Now if you don't know Emily and you aren't friends with her on 784 00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,700 any social media platforms. I have her links in the show 785 00:47:57,700 --> 00:48:01,200 notes and you have to check out her art. 786 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,800 I can't even explain it. It's so inspiring and hauntingly 787 00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,000 beautiful. So, go find her and check her 788 00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,700 out and friend her on Instagram and Facebook. 789 00:48:12,100 --> 00:48:16,100 Lastly, if you are ready to tell your adoption story on mind your 790 00:48:16,100 --> 00:48:19,500 own Karma, you can email me at mind your own Karma at 791 00:48:19,500 --> 00:48:22,300 gmail.com. If you want to know more about 792 00:48:22,300 --> 00:48:25,300 me in the podcast, you can go to my website, mind your own 793 00:48:25,300 --> 00:48:29,800 Karma.com, as always. Take what you need and leave, 794 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:34,200 what you don't And always remember to mind your own Karma. 795 00:48:34,900 --> 00:48:33,600 I'll see you next time. And always remember to mind your 796 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,100 own Karma. I'll see you next time.