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Hey there, it's Melissa Brunetti
and welcome to the Mind Your Own

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Karma podcast. 
Hey there karma crew. 

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Thanks for joining me for 
another episode of Mind Your Own

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Karma, The Adoption Chronicles. 
Today I have David on the show. 

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He is a 62 year old retired 
Teamster, but has been married 

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for 37 years. 
He has three children and one 

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grandson. 
David was a Baby Scoop era 

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adoptee, born in 19, 61 and 
placed with his adopted parents 

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when he was one month old. 
Talking about his adoption was 

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totally off limits and this 
created a lot of confusion about

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his roots. 
He began searching when he was 

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34 years old. 
It turned out his biological 

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parents did end up getting 
married and we're still 

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together. 
They seemed less than thrilled 

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when David contacted them 
because David had been kept a 

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secret from everyone in his 
biological family. 

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It wasn't until his biological 
father died in 2017 that the 

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secret was finally revealed and 
he was able to have 

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relationships with his full 
biological siblings and extended

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family. 
Here is my interview with David 

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Lang. 
So we are welcoming David Lang 

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to the show today. 
Welcome David. 

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How? 
You doing, Melissa? 

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It's an honor to be with you. 
Thanks. 

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Thanks for having me. 
Yeah, no worries. 

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So I don't get a lot of men 
coming on the show. 

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So I'm just, I just kind of 
wanted to know what prompted you

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to tell your story. 
Actually, it was about listening

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to yours and other podcasts. 
It it dawned on me that the male

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voice is kind of, you know, 
under represented. 

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And I think there's aspects of 
my story that are kind of 

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unique. 
So I thought it might be, you 

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know, interesting to get it out 
there. 

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Yeah. 
So why do you think it's that we

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don't get a lot of men coming 
on? 

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I think it might partially be to
the fact that men are told to, 

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you know, cover up their 
feelings, don't show their hurt,

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things like that. 
I think another part of it might

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be that if you're initiating a 
search, you always look towards 

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the birth mother. 
That's always the focal point. 

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It's almost never the birth 
father That might not. 

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That might have something to do 
with it. 

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Yeah, I have a birth father 
coming on in the next couple 

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weeks. 
I'm super excited about that 

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because it is it's it's 
difficult enough to find male 

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adoptees to come on, but to find
adoptive parent or or a birth 

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parent that's male is really 
rare. 

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So I really thank you guys for 
coming on. 

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So what do you know about your 
adoption? 

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Why were you put up for 
adoption? 

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I was a pretty typical Baby 
Scoop era adoptee. 

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I was adopted when I was about 
one month old and my adopted 

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parents, I kind of hit the 
lottery and used so many times. 

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You hear, you know, stories of, 
you know, abuse or neglect or 

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things like that. 
That wasn't the case with me. 

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I always felt loved. 
I always felt, you know, wanted 

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things of that nature. 
I was told I was adopted when I 

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was 9 and that was pretty much 
the last time it was ever spoken

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of. 
It was it was completely taboo. 

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After I was told, I remember I 
told somebody else at my school.

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One of my friends and I came 
home and I very casually 

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mentioned it to my mother and 
she just hit the roof. 

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And she was, she was a pretty 
calm lady too. 

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So that kind of gave me the 
signal that, you know, OK, we're

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we're we're never just we're 
never going to bring this up 

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ever again. 
I think this kind of put me in a

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state of the lack of a better 
turn, alternate consciousness, 

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where on the surface, I really 
did think that my adopted family

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was my biological family. 
Deep down I, you know, I kind of

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knew I was different and I never
fit in and things like that. 

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But if there was a family tree 
project at school, I would. 

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I would just do it for my 
adopted family. 

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Yeah. 
Why do you think they told you 

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at nine years old? 
What prompted them to tell you 

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in the 1st place? 
Was there something? 

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Apparently my mother had told me
before that, but it never really

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registered. 
I I remember asking my mother 

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something about pregnancy. 
I don't remember exactly what. 

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And that's when she said, well, 
you know, you're adopted and it 

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just it it kind of hit me from 
there. 

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Yeah, so when they told you and 
when you remember that it a 

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later age, how did you feel 
about it? 

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I always. 
I never really thought about it 

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too much. 
I knew something was off. 

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I knew I didn't fit in. 
I knew nobody looked like me. 

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I always got jealous at the kids
at school when they knew their 

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ethnicity, and I really didn't 
have any kind of a background 

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like that. 
But on the surface, everything 

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was OK. 
Something would have to trigger 

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me to have any kind of thoughts 
about adoption. 

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So did you have any siblings 
growing up? 

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I had an adopted sister who's 
two years younger. 

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She was, she's very outgoing, 
gregarious and attractive also, 

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whereas I was kind of 
introverted. 

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And I, you know, I like my books
and things like that. 

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So I she had considerably less 
difficulty adjusting to it. 

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OK. 
And was she told like at the 

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same time that she was adopted, 
that you were told or? 

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Yeah, she was. 
She was pretty much told in that

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789 year old range. 
She never showed any problem 

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with it and we never talked 
about it until we were in our 

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mid 30s. 
Yeah, wow. 

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And so. 
Just goes to show you how taboo 

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it actually was. 
Right, right. 

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So growing up, did you how did 
you see adoption shaping you 

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like as a child and even as a 
teenager were you able to like 

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have friends and form 
relationships and. 

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I was, but I I never really. 
I always felt like I never fit 

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in with whatever group of 
friends I had, and I never 

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really thought about adoption 
too much. 

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Something would have to trigger 
it. 

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If I could tell you a story 
about my senior year in high 

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school, I was on the soccer team
and the season came down to a 

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championship game and we 
happened to win the game. 

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So, you know, we were all elated
and, you know, all thrilled and 

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it's kind of AI was the goalie. 
And it's kind of a thing that 

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you, the two goalies, kind of 
congratulate each other, go out 

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of their way to shake hands. 
But I couldn't find the 

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opponent's goalie. 
I was, he must have, you know, 

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wandered off, understandably 
dejected. 

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So I was the last one to get all
my gear and head back to the 

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bus. 
And as I'm walking all alone, I 

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thought to myself, I might get 
my picture in the paper. 

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My biological family might see 
that picture. 

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Maybe they know me and the dam 
just broke. 

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You know, why did they get, why 
did they give me up? 

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Maybe they're here. 
Where do they live? 

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And I kept thinking these things
all the way to the bus. 

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And I remember the last thing I 
thought was nobody else is 

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thinking this kind of stuff. 
Right, right. 

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So from from that point on, were
you thinking about searching 

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then at that point or I mean, 
what was going through your 

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brain after that? 
Damn broke? 

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Didn't I? 
Kind of went back to, you know, 

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life. 
Didn't really think too much 

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about searching. 
Wouldn't even at that point know

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where to start. 
Went to college again. 

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Felt like I didn't fit in, 
didn't tell anybody. 

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And it was here that I met my 
wife. 

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And as we were dating, I told 
her pretty much right off. 

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And I guess that was a harbinger
of things to come, but yeah. 

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Interesting. 
That. 

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Interesting that you wanted to 
tell her right off when, like it

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was taboo for you to talk about,
you know, forever, and then you 

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felt like that was something 
important that you needed to 

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tell her, like, right away. 
Right, right. 

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Exactly. 
So how did not being able to 

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discuss your adoption when you 
were growing up and how did that

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affect the aspects of your life 
and and that what other adoptees

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find common, How was it, was it 
different? 

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I I always knew something was 
different. 

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I knew it was off, but I felt 
like I couldn't connect the 

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dots. 
There really wasn't any 

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resources at that time where you
can, you know, like now we have 

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podcasts like yours, we have 
memoirs, we even have, you know,

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adoptee therapists. 
At that time there was nothing. 

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So I knew that something was 
off. 

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I knew I didn't fit in. 
I knew nobody looked, looked 

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like me. 
But it was very difficult to 

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connect the dots. 
And we. 

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Realized that, right. 
The adoption did have something 

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to do with it, but there was 
nothing I could do about it, 

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basically. 
Right. 

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Did you looking back, do you see
adoption shaping you even as an 

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adult now like or can you do you
see any personality traits or or

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ways that you react in 
relationships, maybe even with 

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your wife, that you can kind of 
attribute back to being adopted?

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I'm really sensitive. 
I still have feelings of not 

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being able to fit in mostly 
things of that nature. 

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Yeah, I think adoptees. 
You know, when you walk into a 

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room, a lot of times you're 
already waiting for or you're 

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oversensitive to how people like
maybe look at you or react to 

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you or talk to you and you're 
automatic that, you know you are

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automatically have that feeling 
that you don't belong. 

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And so you walk into a room 
already thinking that. 

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And then you're always picking 
out all the little things that 

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you know that kind of reinforce 
that it seems like overly 

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sensitive, you know, kind of 
tendencies. 

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So did you start? 
When did you start searching for

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biological parents? 
Or did you? 

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I first got the inkling of an 
urge when my first child was 

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born. 
She was, she was a very content 

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newborn, so you could hold her 
and think. 

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And I remember thinking I have a
blood relative that I can see 

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and that kind of stirred things.
Maybe I would say six or seven 

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years later, my wife and I went 
on a trip and as we were coming 

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back home, we were going through
the the town where I was born. 

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And she said, well, show me 
where you think you were born. 

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I only knew three things about 
my birth the day, the 

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municipality and the agency, 
which was Catholic services. 

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So I drove up to the only 
Catholic Church that I knew in 

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town. 
And almost on cue, a guy came 

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out of the church. 
So we went up to him and, you 

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know, asked if this church had 
anything to do with adoptions or

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anything. 
He said no, but he remembered 

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seeing something like that in 
town. 

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So to make a Long story short, 
we kind of took a tour of the 

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town, stopping, you know, asking
people where something might be 

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or anything related to adoption.
We ended up at a an old folks 

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home for for nuns and it turned 
out that this building was next 

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to the build the home for Unwed 
mothers, which I was born at. 

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So we went up on a Sunday 
afternoon. 

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We went up and asked the nuns at
the front door, you know, we're 

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looking for information, 
anything you could help us out 

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with. 
And just about at that time, 

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another nun came out and she was
going to mail some letters, and 

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one of the other nuns got all 
excited. 

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Oh, she was a nurse. 
She was a nurse there. 

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And she was nice enough to meet 
with us for about an hour to 

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tell us all about the happenings
at the home for Unwed Mothers. 

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You know what it was like, what 
the atmosphere was like, what 

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the women were like, and so on 
and so forth. 

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And we got out of that meeting 
and I'm driving home and my head

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is spinning. 
I'm on the verge of tears. 

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I finally have some kind of 
information about my origin. 

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Yeah. 
So she couldn't tell you 

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anything specific, just kind of.
Nothing specific. 

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And it's funny because we didn't
really come right out and ask 

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her she she just said, you know,
I I can't help you with any 

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information on the search. 
I can only help you, you know 

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with the the building and the 
facilities and things of that 

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nature. 
And we kind of took that as a 

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sign. 
That's when we got the the 

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search in motion. 
Yeah. 

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So then what did you do next? 
My wife. 

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This is all before Google, all 
before DNA, all before cell 

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phones. 
My wife the next day basically 

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made a bunch of phone calls, 
various agencies. 

229
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:40,160
There was still a chapter of the
home for Unwed Mothers that 

230
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:46,760
still existed called All Kinds 
of Other Places, and it turned 

231
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:52,440
out that the agency that placed 
me for adoption could do a 

232
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:58,520
search for your parents. 
So we we kind of went with that.

233
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,000
We got the non, we got the non 
identifying information first, 

234
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:10,560
which was very interesting. 
At the time of my birth, my 

235
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:18,120
biological mother was 22, which 
all the stuff that I've read 

236
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,640
seemed to indicate that all the 
moms were teenagers. 

237
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:27,880
So that was a surprise. 
My biological father was in 

238
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:34,720
college at the time, and I was 
also thrilled at at being a 

239
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,920
lifelong fan of the National 
Hockey League, that my 

240
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,480
biological father was born in 
Canada. 

241
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:46,560
I you know, I'm thinking, oh, 
who's my father? 

242
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:47,760
Gordie Howe. 
Rocket. 

243
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:48,760
Richard. 
But. 

244
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:57,680
So, searching and you got your 
unidentifying information. 

245
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,360
Then what happened? 
Couple months later we scheduled

246
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:07,400
a meeting with the woman who was
doing the search. 

247
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,640
We we just thought it was sort 
of an informational thing, you 

248
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,839
know, see how it's going. 
So we sit down, we get in her 

249
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:21,359
office and she looks at me and 
says, David, I've located your 

250
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,200
birth parents. 
Oh my gosh. 

251
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:29,480
It it was, it was like a sock in
the gut that that did not go 

252
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:35,560
away for the rest of the day. 
She requested that we write them

253
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:47,120
a letter, send it to her, not 
not my parents, and and she she 

254
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:50,640
was able to give us some notes 
about the time that between when

255
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,240
I was born and when I was placed
for adoption. 

256
00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:01,280
I guess I was a foster child for
a couple weeks, and 

257
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,880
interestingly enough, the home 
for Unwed mothers had its own 

258
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,920
delivery room. 
Oh, wow. 

259
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:12,760
I I I don't know if you've read 
the girls that went away, but 

260
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,680
all of their stories have them 
fully being dropped off at the 

261
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:17,920
hospital. 
Yeah. 

262
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:23,520
And and this I was, I was there 
for a couple of weeks at this 

263
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,600
particular home for Unwed 
mothers, so it must have been 

264
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,280
huge. 
Yeah, I wonder. 

265
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,280
Well, you maybe know this 
question if you did talk to your

266
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,680
birth mother, but did I wonder 
if she got to hold you or or did

267
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,880
she get to see you at all? 
She did not. 

268
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,800
She did not. 
Yeah, so you gave the letter to 

269
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:48,040
the search person and then she 
was going to pass it on or? 

270
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:57,160
She passed it on. 
Maybe about two weeks later, we 

271
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:02,640
got a response back. 
It turned out that my biological

272
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,040
mother and father ended up 
getting married. 

273
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:06,200
Oh. 
Wow. 

274
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:11,680
Which is highly unusual, but 
it's good from the standpoint 

275
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,600
that no further searching will 
have to be done to find the 

276
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,040
father. 
Right. 

277
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,800
So. 
So they sent us some 

278
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,840
correspondence. 
They weren't overly thrilled 

279
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:28,640
that we got in contact, but they
weren't. 

280
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:31,520
They didn't give a straight out 
veto either. 

281
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,000
They were the the best word I 
could think to describe. 

282
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:40,720
It would be cordial. 
And we later found out that at 

283
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:45,960
the time my biological father 
got fired, he was a teacher at a

284
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:50,280
private school and I guess he 
he, he really got the screws 

285
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,160
turned to him. 
So it was sort of a bad time for

286
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,800
them to, you know? 
Oh, this all happened at the 

287
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,160
same time. 
Have this life changing event 

288
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,880
right So. 
Oh wow. 

289
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,000
So did you get to meet them or 
what? 

290
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,640
What happened? 
Did they come around finally? 

291
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,960
We we corresponded for about 3 
months. 

292
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,320
Then my wife and I went up to 
their house. 

293
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:20,440
They lived in upstate New York 
and it it it wasn't anything 

294
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,840
heavy. 
It was, you know, a lot of 

295
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,560
casual conversations about 
sports and things of that 

296
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,760
nature. 
The the adoption did come up, 

297
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,200
but it it it seemed, again, very
typical for the Baby Scoop era. 

298
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,680
They weren't married. 
We did find out that they didn't

299
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:47,680
tell anybody in their extended 
family either, so I was a secret

300
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:52,760
and lie in two families. 
Did you see any family 

301
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:58,240
resemblance when you met them? 
With my father, yes, he had a 

302
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:03,840
very long he had a very long 
beard and and I was also 

303
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,360
thrilled to know that he wasn't 
bald. 

304
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:12,040
But I, I, I and through the 
pictures that they sent, I also 

305
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,280
saw a resemblance with my 
biological sister. 

306
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,800
OK, so you had did have 
siblings, full siblings. 

307
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:22,520
Right, two full siblings. 
But they didn't tell them about 

308
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,280
me for a long time. 
Oh my gosh. 

309
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,800
So they didn't know about you 
growing up? 

310
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,040
Nobody knew about you growing 
up. 

311
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,320
That's probably why they were a 
little bit taken aback to have 

312
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,000
you, like, show up. 
Now you know, 'cause nobody 

313
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,480
knew. 
Sure, that played into it. 

314
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:43,080
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
So how did that feel though, 

315
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,600
That when you found out that 
nobody knew about you and then 

316
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:50,960
you met them, And I'm assuming 
that they still kept you a 

317
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,080
secret after they met you. 
Wow did. 

318
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,360
That feel it was very, it was 
very disappointing knowing that 

319
00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:00,480
I had relatives out there. 
Yeah. 

320
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,840
But it would be extremely 
awkward to go over their heads 

321
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:13,240
and try to contact them. 
We we kept on corresponding, I'd

322
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:18,400
say for maybe a year or two. 
And then when my youngest child 

323
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,640
was born, he had a lot of health
problems. 

324
00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:26,160
And obviously the priority was 
that and we sort of just lost 

325
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:33,920
touch and we didn't regain touch
for a good fifteen 1617 years. 

326
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,440
Oh my goodness. 
Wow. 

327
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:38,920
And did you reach out again at 
that point? 

328
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,960
My wife, being the excellent 
Facebook stalker that she is, 

329
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,280
found out that my biological 
father had passed. 

330
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,760
So we decided to send my 
biological mother some flowers 

331
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,440
and see if, you know, she would 
be open to corresponding again. 

332
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:02,920
And you know, we got a phone 
call pretty much right away and 

333
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,440
she wanted, she wanted to speak 
to everyone, you know, my 

334
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,400
children, everything. 
And then she dropped the bomb. 

335
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,080
That, well, I'm going to tell 
everybody. 

336
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,720
And I was like, well, that 
sounds great, but is it really 

337
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,600
going to happen? 
And a couple of days later, my 

338
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:22,120
wife got a Facebook friend 
request from my biological 

339
00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:25,680
sister So that that opened 
everything up. 

340
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,200
Yeah. 
So obviously it was your 

341
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:33,040
biological father that was kind 
of keeping that barrier up 

342
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,960
between the family and you. 
And it's like didn't sound like 

343
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,480
your your birth mother wanted it
that way. 

344
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,040
I I think it was more my birth 
mother. 

345
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,040
Really. 
But to be honest, I'm not 

346
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:54,200
totally sure. 
It's just interesting that she 

347
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,360
opened the floodgates after he 
passed and you, you know, like 

348
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:01,560
came back and so almost made it 
sound like the dad, your father,

349
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,240
your father was the one that was
kind of keeping wanting to keep 

350
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,160
the secret. 
Yeah, she she had alluded to the

351
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:14,120
fact that she wanted to keep 
keep me a secret, but she never 

352
00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:17,560
really quite came right out and 
say it said it. 

353
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,840
So I I really don't know exactly
what the dynamic was between 

354
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,480
them. 
Yeah, so then once she told 

355
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,000
everyone what what did that? 
What were they thinking? 

356
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,200
I mean, were your siblings mad 
that they didn't know about you 

357
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,200
or? 
They were extremely upset. 

358
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:44,080
The downright angry my 
biological sister said that, you

359
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:49,680
know, her son could have had 
cousins with my kid, but you 

360
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,880
know, it never did. 
Yeah. 

361
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,000
So what was that like, being a 
secret and then all of a sudden 

362
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,000
not being a secret? 
What's that like for you? 

363
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,520
Quite overwhelming to say the 
least. 

364
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:10,200
But it was interesting finding 
out, you know chorus first. 

365
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,440
Corresponding with I, I have 
both a full brother and a full 

366
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:21,880
sister corresponding with them, 
seeing the ways that we're we're

367
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:27,800
like things of that nature. 
And I also have a biological 

368
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:33,320
uncle who I've gone, I've grown 
very close to and you know, it 

369
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:38,080
was great to meet him and his 
wife and I have a cousin, not a 

370
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,840
cousin, but a niece with them 
also, so. 

371
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,400
And do they live close? 
Are you guys able to see? 

372
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,960
Unfortunately, no. 
There's a lot of geographical 

373
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,440
distance, but you know, we we 
frequently text, exchange 

374
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:56,160
birthday presents, things like 
that, and make a lot of jokes 

375
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,560
about the the similarities 
between us. 

376
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,120
My biological sister and I both 
doused all our food with 

377
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:05,880
ketchup. 
You know, it's it's those little

378
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,680
things. 
But still to us adopt these it, 

379
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:09,960
it means a lot. 
It does. 

380
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,480
Is your birth mother still 
alive? 

381
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:19,080
She passed last year. 
I I got to spend some end of 

382
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,040
lifetime with her, which I 
really treasured. 

383
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,480
Not a lot of adoptees get that 
kind of opportunity. 

384
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,280
No, I'm surprised that they 
didn't. 

385
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,520
Tell you. 
I'm surprised they didn't tell 

386
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,280
you that when your your birth 
father passed. 

387
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,480
Of course you were still a 
secret back then, I guess, but 

388
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,240
nobody called to tell you. 
You know, your birth mom didn't 

389
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,560
tell you or anything that that 
he had passed. 

390
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:45,680
No, didn't. 
Didn't hear a thing. 

391
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,880
Yeah. 
So how your relationship with 

392
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,320
your siblings obviously is 
pretty good, and you said that 

393
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,520
you were seeing some 
similarities. 

394
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:02,240
Isn't that the weirdest thing? 
Like when you see even just the 

395
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,040
way somebody talks or the 
inflections in their voice or 

396
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,400
the way they move when they 
talk, and it's just like you've 

397
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:09,960
never seen that your entire 
life. 

398
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:14,880
And then it's so weird how that 
stuff can be biological and you 

399
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,840
you recognize it. 
And it's just like, wow, I do 

400
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:17,480
that too. 
Very. 

401
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,280
Much so. 
It's so crazy, 'cause, you know,

402
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,520
you don't have that mirroring at
all, ever. 

403
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,120
And then all of a sudden it's 
like, what? 

404
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,040
So weird. 
I know I laughed like my birth 

405
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,120
mother. 
We had a lot of the same body 

406
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:32,720
movements and things, so it was 
kind of funny. 

407
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,880
And we would, we would notice 
that in each other and we'd just

408
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,600
start laughing, like, you know, 
we'd see it in each other and 

409
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,400
we'd just laugh. 
Just kind of interesting. 

410
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,840
So you were talking about your 
biological uncle that you're 

411
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:48,960
close to, and he had kind of a 
strange request of you, I think,

412
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:50,760
that you were telling me a 
little bit about. 

413
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,720
That's right. 
I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll try to. 

414
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,040
I'm not exactly sure how to 
start this story, so bear with 

415
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:06,480
me. 
My paternal, My paternal 

416
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,320
grandfather was an Episcopalian 
priest. 

417
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:18,240
My paternal grandmother had 
issues with anxiety, depression,

418
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:24,840
things of that nature. 
He took a position at a church 

419
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:30,440
in the Finger Lakes region of 
New York, and it kind of pulled 

420
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,920
my grandmother away from all her
friends and her support system 

421
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,880
at his old church. 
And it was kind of a vicious 

422
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,600
circle for her. 
And unfortunately, she 

423
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:53,760
eventually took her own life. 
She was buried at the cemetery 

424
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:59,560
near the church in that town, 
just just as a side note. 

425
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:05,480
I actually made a pilgrimage up 
there a few years back and 

426
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:10,200
noticing her date of death, that
I was the only grandchild she 

427
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:20,040
had at that time. 
Anyway, my grandfather went on, 

428
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,840
you know, with his life and 
eventually he died and was 

429
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,480
buried in his hometown in 
Clinton, Canada. 

430
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:35,800
My uncle desperately wants to 
have my grandmother's cremates 

431
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:43,480
exhumed, and he requested that I
bring them from Geneva, NY to 

432
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,840
Clinton ON. 
Oh, wow. 

433
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:52,560
Which is something I don't think
a lot of adoptees would ever 

434
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,040
have the experience of. 
Exactly. 

435
00:29:55,640 --> 00:30:01,120
Is that going to happen? 
Yeah, I I want to get it done 

436
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:07,080
quick because if something 
should happen to my uncle, I 

437
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:11,640
have absolutely no legal 
authority to get anything done. 

438
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:17,640
Yeah, so I I the project would 
be dead in the water. 

439
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,640
Yeah, so that's their. 
Son, I don't have to tell you or

440
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,720
anybody. 
I'm sorry. 

441
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,320
That was their son. 
The the uncle. 

442
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,640
Is that their son? 
OK, so he's probably the last 

443
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,760
living child or whatever that 
could do anything. 

444
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,160
Correct. 
I don't. 

445
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,280
I don't have to tell you or 
anybody else out there that the 

446
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:45,920
legal privileges that we have or
adoptees are like slim and none 

447
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,080
so that. 
Pretty zero. 

448
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,240
Oh my gosh. 
So but you are going to do it 

449
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,320
sounds like. 
Yes, it's it. 

450
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,480
It's just a matter of when and I
I hope it's more sooner than 

451
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,720
later. 
Yeah, wow. 

452
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,560
That would be. 
I don't even know how I would 

453
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:08,200
feel doing that like or being 
asked to do that. 

454
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,920
That's kind of, I know, like an 
honor to be asked to do that. 

455
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,560
And you know. 
Right. 

456
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,920
And and I'm looking forward to 
going, you know, to the place of

457
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,880
my grandfather's birth, you 
know, maybe taking in some of 

458
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:29,280
the the sites or wherever he was
born to see if you know things 

459
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,800
of that nature. 
It's it's a very unusual thing 

460
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,720
though. 
Yeah. 

461
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,120
So I want to talk a little bit 
about the fog. 

462
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,080
And it sounded like you came out
of the fog a little bit at that 

463
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,880
high school game. 
It kind of started, you know, 

464
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,280
started there, and then you 
didn't revisit it until maybe 

465
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,880
you said you're first born, you 
know, was born again. 

466
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,480
Do you consider yourself out of 
the fog? 

467
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,520
Do you do you even use that 
term? 

468
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,640
I consider myself out of the fog
now. 

469
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:11,240
I think growing up and not being
able to talk about it, I was in.

470
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:17,000
Do you remember when Rudolph, 
Hermie and Yukon were floating 

471
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:24,120
on the ice and Yukon said boy 
fog's thick as peanut butter. 

472
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,200
I think that was me. 
I think I was in the fog more 

473
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:34,960
deeply than most people, and it 
took me to my adult life to 

474
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,960
completely get out of it. 
Yeah, and what helped you get 

475
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,640
out of it? 
Just the search alone and and 

476
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,720
you know, finding your biology, 
biology or what? 

477
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,320
What do you think? 
That had a lot to do with it. 

478
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:56,400
Reading books written by others 
in the adopted triad was a huge 

479
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,720
help. 
Reading The Primal Wound, seeing

480
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:06,200
how you know, a lot of other 
adoptees were feeling the same 

481
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,360
kind of feelings that I was 
feeling both growing up And 

482
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:17,480
presently Verrier makes a 
statement somewhere, I think in 

483
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:23,040
the introduction that adoptees 
represent 2% of the population, 

484
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:28,320
but 30 to 40% of the of the the 
population in, you know, 

485
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:34,320
juvenile detention centers and 
and things of that nature. 

486
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:39,440
So it was, it was very 
reassuring to gain that kind of 

487
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,840
knowledge and realize, you know,
I'm not alone here. 

488
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,600
The things I'm feeling are 
valid. 

489
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,200
So you weren't terrified to read
that book, like a lot of? 

490
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,160
The topies are ignorance is 
bliss. 

491
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,000
I I kind of went into it with, 
you know, no expectations and I 

492
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,160
just couldn't put it down. 
That's cool. 

493
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,960
So you brought up Nancy Varier's
book and you know the Primal 

494
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,320
Wound. 
So do you think that we can heal

495
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,320
from the Primal Wound? 
Yes. 

496
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:14,280
Whether or not you can do it 
completely, I don't know, but I 

497
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:19,040
think there are steps where you 
can definitely make it easier to

498
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:21,239
heal on yourself. 
Yeah. 

499
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,320
And just and is there anything 
else that you wanted to talk 

500
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,639
about in your story that we 
didn't cover? 

501
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:40,639
I I think that's about it. 
One thing I'd like to mention is

502
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:45,120
that my uncle, who I'm close to,
was the officiant at my 

503
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,040
daughter's wedding. 
Oh, wow. 

504
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,280
And I don't think that comes up 
a lot in adoptee circles either.

505
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,400
Yeah. 
So that's cool. 

506
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,520
Well, I'm so glad that you had 
like a, you know, a happy 

507
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,400
reunion and that it was pretty 
successful, it sounds like 

508
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,920
because we don't obviously, you 
know, we don't hear that very 

509
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,200
often. 
Yeah, very true. 

510
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,480
Yeah, So in closing, what would 
you like struggling adoptees to 

511
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:14,720
know? 
7 words You are not alone. 

512
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:20,480
You have resources. 
Those are two things I didn't 

513
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,400
have when I was growing up. 
So I I I think it's wonderful to

514
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,800
have, you know podcasts like 
this and you know books and you 

515
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:33,360
know adoptee based therapies, 
you know, go out, educate 

516
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:38,240
yourself, you're not alone. 
And one other thing I'd like to 

517
00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:42,960
mention, I think you touched on 
this in one of your previous 

518
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,960
podcasts. 
I'd really like us adoptees not 

519
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,040
to shoot inside the tent, 
especially on social media. 

520
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,840
Let's try to have a little bit 
of, you know, understanding and 

521
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:05,480
empathy, even if your situation 
is a little bit different than 

522
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,560
somebody else's. 
We all have that one big thing 

523
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,200
in common, and let's try not to 
forget that. 

524
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,040
Yeah, exactly. 
That is so huge, so huge. 

525
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,080
And you see it all the time. 
And I just, you know, you have 

526
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,160
to pick and choose what you say 
on social media because you can 

527
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:27,160
quickly become the target. 
But but yeah, you see that a lot

528
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,800
and it's it's really sad that we
can't all just come together and

529
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,200
accept that all our journeys are
different and how we react to 

530
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,480
those journeys are different and
it's OK. 

531
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,440
Like it, you know, it doesn't 
matter that you have a different

532
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,240
opinion than me. 
It's not going to hurt me. 

533
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,680
You know, that's just, yeah, 
just your opinion from from the 

534
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,640
vantage point and the life that 
you live. 

535
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:54,360
So just have some compassion for
for all of us and our journeys. 

536
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:56,440
But yeah, that it's so 
important. 

537
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,320
So thank you for saying that and
thank you for coming on. 

538
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,960
Mind your own karma and being a 
brave male and coming on it. 

539
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,840
Was wonderful to be here. 
Thank you so much. 

540
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,280
Wow, David Lang really did hit 
the lottery. 

541
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,680
I mean, he got great adoptive 
parents. 

542
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:23,320
He finally got to have a great 
reunion with his full biological

543
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,440
siblings and parts of his 
biological family, and those two

544
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,680
things are pretty rare in 
adoptee circles. 

545
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:35,000
But I think the thing that hit 
me most about David's story is 

546
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,960
that he was kept a secret from 
his entire family, even after he

547
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,880
contacted his biological mother 
and father who had been together

548
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:49,880
all this time, and they wanted 
to continue that secret after 

549
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,440
they met him. 
And that situation happens so 

550
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:58,520
often to adoptees where they're 
put in a position to not be able

551
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,080
to talk to their biology, their 
siblings. 

552
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,160
And it brings up so many 
questions like, do I have a 

553
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,560
right to go around my biological
parents and do it anyway? 

554
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,920
Because those are my siblings 
that I want to get to know, and 

555
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:18,360
they don't even know about me. 
And I see this scenario happen 

556
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,880
over and over and over again to 
adoptees. 

557
00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:26,640
So many times the adoptee has to
wait for someone to pass away 

558
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:31,960
before we feel the freedom to be
able to pursue biological 

559
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,440
relationships and to finally get
our questions answered. 

560
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,880
And again, I just think it's 
another thing that adoptees have

561
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,800
to deal with that people don't 
understand or even think about. 

562
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,920
So thank you, David, for coming 
on the show and telling us your 

563
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,880
adoption story. 
It's so important to get the 

564
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,960
male perspective. 
And I hope more males come 

565
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,480
forward and want to tell their 
stories because there are men 

566
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:03,680
out there that need to hear that
it's OK to have feelings about 

567
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,160
being adopted and it's OK to 
talk about it. 

568
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,440
And the more men come forward, 
the more permission you're 

569
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,320
giving for other men to come 
forward. 

570
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,880
So thank you again David, and if
you are wanting to come on the 

571
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,640
podcast, you can send me an 
e-mail at Mind Your own 

572
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,960
karma@gmail.com. 
You can become part of the karma

573
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:27,200
crew on Mind Your Own karma.com.
Also, if you are struggling with

574
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,880
adoption trauma, go to 
somatichealingjourneys.com where

575
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:36,240
you can learn about a new, 
innovative and very effective 

576
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:39,960
therapy that can help you 
recover and heal. 

577
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:44,360
And like David said, it is 
possible to heal from the primal

578
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,640
wound. 
That's it for today's episode. 

579
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,320
And as always, take what you 
need and leave what you don't. 

580
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,960
And always remember to mind your
own karma. 

581
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:56,880
I'll see you next time.