1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,520 Hey there, it's Melissa Brunetti and welcome to the Mind Your Own 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:15,760 Karma podcast. Hey there Karma crew. 3 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,880 Thanks for joining me on the 100th episode of Mind Your Own 4 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:21,560 Karma. As of the date of this 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,600 recording, Mind Your Own Karma has been listened to in 46 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,160 countries from all. Over the world. 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,840 My mission when starting Season 2 was to bring the adoption 8 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:37,590 subject to the world and educate the world about adoption. 9 00:00:37,590 --> 00:00:41,390 And we are doing it. So thank you for your support, 10 00:00:41,390 --> 00:00:45,670 thank you for listening, and thank you for continuing to 11 00:00:45,670 --> 00:00:49,470 support me and this podcast. Now I'm going to jump right in 12 00:00:49,470 --> 00:00:53,310 and tell you a little bit about my guest today, Paige. 13 00:00:53,350 --> 00:00:56,830 Adam Strickland is a teacher and writer from Cincinnati, OH. 14 00:00:57,230 --> 00:01:01,030 She is an adoptee in Reunion from the Baby Scoop era who 15 00:01:01,030 --> 00:01:04,470 searched and found her biological family in the 1980s. 16 00:01:05,110 --> 00:01:08,310 Paige has written books and film and play reviews on her 17 00:01:08,310 --> 00:01:11,470 WordPress blog as a way to elevate the voices and talents 18 00:01:11,790 --> 00:01:14,150 of members of the adoption constellation. 19 00:01:14,670 --> 00:01:18,590 Her two memoirs about being adopted are akin to The Truth 20 00:01:18,910 --> 00:01:21,990 and After the Truth. She has a work in progress with 21 00:01:21,990 --> 00:01:25,710 the working title of Born, Adopted and Finding My Truth. 22 00:01:26,110 --> 00:01:29,190 Born Adopted is geared toward teen and young adult readers. 23 00:01:29,590 --> 00:01:32,710 She is married with two daughters, 3 grandchildren and 24 00:01:32,710 --> 00:01:38,710 four spoiled rotten cats. Here is my interview with Paige 25 00:01:38,710 --> 00:01:41,350 Strickland. We are welcoming Paige 26 00:01:41,350 --> 00:01:43,230 Strickland to the show today. Hi, Paige. 27 00:01:43,670 --> 00:01:47,350 Hi. I'm always super excited when 28 00:01:47,350 --> 00:01:50,230 someone reaches out to me and wants to tell their story and 29 00:01:50,230 --> 00:01:52,110 say me too, I want to tell my story. 30 00:01:52,650 --> 00:01:55,330 So I just want to thank you for reaching out to me on Facebook, 31 00:01:55,330 --> 00:01:58,850 and it's just so important for us to tell our stories. 32 00:01:59,170 --> 00:02:01,250 Why do you want to tell your story? 33 00:02:03,290 --> 00:02:05,810 I'm hoping it would be helpful to other people. 34 00:02:06,090 --> 00:02:08,729 Other adopted people you never know about. 35 00:02:08,729 --> 00:02:11,850 First parents, Birth parents, You know what they maybe would 36 00:02:11,890 --> 00:02:14,970 want to know about what an adopted person might be 37 00:02:14,970 --> 00:02:17,450 thinking? Anybody really. 38 00:02:18,030 --> 00:02:21,310 I'm really hoping that like you said, that we are not only 39 00:02:21,350 --> 00:02:24,550 educating and helping adoptees, but we're educating people who 40 00:02:24,550 --> 00:02:28,990 are looking to adopt and even birth parents, right and helping 41 00:02:28,990 --> 00:02:31,150 in their trauma and things like that too. 42 00:02:31,230 --> 00:02:35,390 And if it dates somebody's feelings that they've always 43 00:02:35,390 --> 00:02:38,350 questioned, are they normal? Or am I the only person that 44 00:02:38,350 --> 00:02:41,990 thinks like this if it helps somebody to feel not so crazy 45 00:02:41,990 --> 00:02:43,630 after all? Yes. 46 00:02:44,890 --> 00:02:46,610 Or if we're all just the same, crazy. 47 00:02:47,010 --> 00:02:49,210 Right. And it's funny because I didn't 48 00:02:49,210 --> 00:02:52,730 really know that until, you know, a year and a half ago when 49 00:02:52,730 --> 00:02:55,810 I really jumped into, you know, the Facebook groups and stuff 50 00:02:55,810 --> 00:02:59,130 and, oh, that's kind of fun. I'll join an adoptee group. 51 00:02:59,130 --> 00:03:04,920 And then I was just like, whoa. You know what is happening? 52 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,560 Like I was just so blown away. I didn't really know a lot of 53 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,400 adoptees growing up and we didn't talk about it, you know, 54 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,840 so. We were hiding out in the open. 55 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,640 Like, yeah, I mean, as far as I was aware growing up, I was the 56 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:23,800 only one in my world and circle of people and people my parents 57 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,920 knew and anybody in my school and. 58 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:29,880 Yeah, you just didn't talk about it. 59 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:31,840 You didn't talk about it. No. 60 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:34,000 Yeah, you don't talk about it cuz you'll get bullied. 61 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,040 Somebody will find a way to make fun of you about it. 62 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:37,160 So. Yeah. 63 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:38,680 Or you'll get in trouble or something. 64 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,000 Yeah. So tell us what the 65 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,680 circumstances were with your adoption. 66 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,560 What do you know? I pretty much know everything. 67 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,840 Oh, this is Lily, by the way. So good. 68 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:58,520 For watching on YouTube. So I was in foster care after 69 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,060 birth. Somewhere between when I left 70 00:04:01,060 --> 00:04:03,180 the hospital and before my parents got me. 71 00:04:03,180 --> 00:04:05,500 I was 13 months old when I was adopted. 72 00:04:05,940 --> 00:04:11,140 I was born premature, somewhere around seven months ish, healthy 73 00:04:11,140 --> 00:04:13,340 but underweight. So they had to keep me in the 74 00:04:13,340 --> 00:04:17,339 hospital for a time. And then I got sent to foster 75 00:04:17,339 --> 00:04:20,660 care. And then my parents, in the 76 00:04:20,660 --> 00:04:24,300 meantime, were starting to family plan. 77 00:04:24,950 --> 00:04:29,230 Just thinking about what to do. They were healthy but just 78 00:04:29,430 --> 00:04:33,070 things weren't happening for them and so they decided to 79 00:04:33,070 --> 00:04:37,790 adopt and they they knew somebody who'd adopted and so 80 00:04:37,790 --> 00:04:40,190 that's they decided they would do that too. 81 00:04:40,310 --> 00:04:42,470 And the people they knew moved out of town. 82 00:04:42,470 --> 00:04:45,270 So it's not somebody where we could hang out and go, hey, I'm 83 00:04:45,270 --> 00:04:49,990 adopted too, so again, nobody around me that, so that's pretty 84 00:04:49,990 --> 00:04:52,890 much. They went to a foster care home. 85 00:04:52,890 --> 00:04:58,530 I was there among a bunch of other kids and they weren't 86 00:04:58,530 --> 00:05:03,730 really needing to adopt A newborn infant, so they were 87 00:05:03,730 --> 00:05:05,890 okay with like a one year old baby. 88 00:05:06,250 --> 00:05:08,730 You still look like a baby. Yeah. 89 00:05:09,170 --> 00:05:11,850 So you were in the hospital till you were seven months? 90 00:05:11,970 --> 00:05:16,770 I was in the hospital possibly one month a day OK for long it 91 00:05:16,770 --> 00:05:20,530 would take a £5 or so ish baby to. 92 00:05:20,690 --> 00:05:23,570 Gain a couple pounds. Not be considered premature by 93 00:05:23,570 --> 00:05:26,610 weight. Maybe I was 4 point something. 94 00:05:26,910 --> 00:05:28,950 And they don't have a weight. I don't have a weight. 95 00:05:29,030 --> 00:05:32,110 There's nothing on any of my birth certificates about weight 96 00:05:32,110 --> 00:05:34,470 or time of day, which I hate that I really hate. 97 00:05:35,070 --> 00:05:38,150 It's like 2 little details. I would like to know a lot of 98 00:05:38,150 --> 00:05:41,590 things about a lot of people because I learned everything I 99 00:05:41,590 --> 00:05:44,190 could. But those are two things that, 100 00:05:44,710 --> 00:05:49,630 poof, I guess I'll never know. So yeah, my parents were just 101 00:05:49,630 --> 00:05:54,430 verbally told that I was underweight and had come early. 102 00:05:55,220 --> 00:05:57,620 So. So why did it take so long for 103 00:05:57,620 --> 00:05:59,860 them to adopt you out, do you know? 104 00:06:00,220 --> 00:06:05,020 Well, here's what I found out after I found the family was 105 00:06:05,020 --> 00:06:10,140 that we're just putting pieces together based on what we know. 106 00:06:10,140 --> 00:06:12,940 I don't know if it's a spoiler to say or not, but my birth 107 00:06:12,940 --> 00:06:16,220 mother was passed away. I couldn't go to a direct source 108 00:06:16,300 --> 00:06:20,060 for any information but talking to her aunts. 109 00:06:20,660 --> 00:06:25,100 Talking to I had a sister that she's 18 months older than I am 110 00:06:25,260 --> 00:06:28,260 and basically she couldn't be single mom to two kids. 111 00:06:28,300 --> 00:06:33,580 She was making it with one barely, but making it with one. 112 00:06:33,740 --> 00:06:38,500 And she had health problems. So because of the health issues 113 00:06:39,140 --> 00:06:43,340 still being single, my birth father just wasn't going to 114 00:06:43,340 --> 00:06:45,500 marry her. And there's a story behind that. 115 00:06:45,820 --> 00:06:49,300 He married someone else but. He was married. 116 00:06:49,700 --> 00:06:53,380 No, he was the single guy, but he was seeing more than one 117 00:06:53,380 --> 00:06:56,180 woman. Yeah. 118 00:06:56,580 --> 00:07:00,260 And so she was left with no support. 119 00:07:00,380 --> 00:07:02,900 Everybody was helping her out with the first kid. 120 00:07:03,460 --> 00:07:07,180 And then it happened again, and it was Sorry about your luck. 121 00:07:07,260 --> 00:07:11,630 Yeah, you know. So I don't believe she was 122 00:07:11,630 --> 00:07:15,870 probably coerced the way a lot of birth mothers at that time 123 00:07:15,870 --> 00:07:18,470 were. She had some legit reasons why 124 00:07:18,470 --> 00:07:21,710 it wasn't going to work out for her, and even though I came 125 00:07:21,710 --> 00:07:24,750 early, she already had the adoption plan. 126 00:07:24,870 --> 00:07:27,910 It wasn't like after I was born and somebody said, now what are 127 00:07:27,910 --> 00:07:31,030 you going to do because? She did not bring me home from 128 00:07:31,030 --> 00:07:34,710 the hospital and she had to have heart surgery after I was born. 129 00:07:35,630 --> 00:07:39,430 She had rheumatic fever as a kid that wasn't treated properly, 130 00:07:39,630 --> 00:07:43,110 you know, living in the pills and hollers of Virginia, no 131 00:07:43,110 --> 00:07:46,430 doctoring or not good doctoring, you know, things like that. 132 00:07:47,150 --> 00:07:51,390 So she had heart valve problems and had to have some surgery 133 00:07:51,390 --> 00:07:53,510 after I was born. So there was another reason she 134 00:07:53,510 --> 00:07:57,430 couldn't take care of me. And an 18 month old and just. 135 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,360 Yeah, no backup. So is your sister the one that's 136 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,560 older than you? Are you full sisters or half? 137 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:06,960 We're halves. We're half. 138 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:13,720 And she found out about me because, you know, kids do these 139 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,680 things. She just sort of had this 140 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:20,760 feeling and one day when nobody was home, she got into a lock 141 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:25,640 box in the closet and snooped. And she was the only kid in the 142 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,140 house at the time. She was raised as an only for a 143 00:08:29,140 --> 00:08:37,860 long time and got into this lock box and found papers and it was 144 00:08:37,860 --> 00:08:41,820 the adoption papers or hospital record or something that my 145 00:08:41,820 --> 00:08:47,420 birth mother had had copies of and she was 10 years old. 146 00:08:47,420 --> 00:08:49,060 I. Was going to ask how she was. 147 00:08:49,260 --> 00:08:49,740 Yeah. Wow. 148 00:08:50,300 --> 00:08:53,260 And she said when she confronted her mother about it. 149 00:08:53,580 --> 00:08:55,780 Well, I was going to tell you, I was just waiting for the right 150 00:08:55,780 --> 00:08:59,680 time and. Okay, you know, is a 10 year old 151 00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:02,000 the right time to tell? I don't know. 152 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,520 I think it would really kind of depend on the kid, but she got 153 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:11,040 told them when she was 10, so she, my sister, knew I existed. 154 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,640 Yeah, I feel like the younger you're told and you don't like 155 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,360 because I don't remember being told I was adopted because I was 156 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:18,080 new. Yeah. 157 00:09:18,900 --> 00:09:21,940 So I always think that's better, you know, than waiting for a 158 00:09:21,940 --> 00:09:24,140 certain time when you think they're going to be able to 159 00:09:24,140 --> 00:09:25,300 comprehend it. Just tell them from the 160 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:26,900 beginning. Right, right. 161 00:09:27,100 --> 00:09:29,220 Then it's kind of no big deal and you already know. 162 00:09:29,220 --> 00:09:32,740 Yeah, but you know, didn't know what to do back then about the. 163 00:09:33,140 --> 00:09:37,140 Yeah, I know. So did you have siblings growing 164 00:09:37,140 --> 00:09:38,860 up? I did in the adopted family. 165 00:09:38,860 --> 00:09:40,460 Yeah, I was raised with one brother. 166 00:09:40,460 --> 00:09:43,820 He is biological. They did manage to conceive. 167 00:09:43,980 --> 00:09:46,140 So he's six years younger than I am. 168 00:09:47,590 --> 00:09:48,750 Yeah. How was that relationship? 169 00:09:48,750 --> 00:09:52,070 Did you feel different since he was biological? 170 00:09:52,550 --> 00:09:55,670 Yes. And I was old enough to know it 171 00:09:55,870 --> 00:10:00,390 because I was six when he was born, so I knew where babies 172 00:10:00,390 --> 00:10:03,630 came from. And so it's like, well, this 173 00:10:03,630 --> 00:10:06,110 doesn't add up now. I don't remember. 174 00:10:06,110 --> 00:10:09,670 I knew I was adopted. I don't remember when I was told 175 00:10:09,670 --> 00:10:15,310 exactly or having some moment of or anything like that, but. 176 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,680 I knew, you know, when he was born, oh, this is how it was 177 00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:21,240 supposed to go. This was what was supposed to 178 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,320 happen, kind of thing. This is what happens to 179 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,480 everybody else. But it didn't happen to me. 180 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,560 And so that was kind of disturbing. 181 00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:32,960 But you know, when you're six, you don't know how to deal with 182 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,700 that and you don't know. Who to blame? 183 00:10:37,700 --> 00:10:40,940 Or if there's somebody to blame or anything like that, you just 184 00:10:40,980 --> 00:10:44,260 you're 6 and it's like, it's not fair, is what it feels like. 185 00:10:44,980 --> 00:10:47,540 And being that he was a boy, I was a girl. 186 00:10:48,060 --> 00:10:51,180 We were six years apart. It took a long time before we 187 00:10:51,180 --> 00:10:56,500 had a lot of things in common. Finally, around the time he hit 188 00:10:56,500 --> 00:11:00,020 junior high, we realized we like the same music. 189 00:11:01,820 --> 00:11:08,080 At least there was that. And some of the same TV shows, 190 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,040 you know? But really before that he was 191 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,320 into his Speed Racer and his dirt bike and his guy things. 192 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:20,400 And yeah, it was, we just didn't have that much in common, you 193 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,960 know, We didn't have the same teachers in school. 194 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,800 I mean, we went through the same school district, but we just. 195 00:11:28,310 --> 00:11:31,070 Was big enough, We just didn't have all the same. 196 00:11:31,310 --> 00:11:35,710 Yeah, I feel like it's hard enough being the only kid for a 197 00:11:35,710 --> 00:11:39,030 while, even in the biological family, and then having another 198 00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:41,550 kid come along and, you know, kind of take some of that of 199 00:11:41,550 --> 00:11:43,710 your attention away. But I think, you know, being an 200 00:11:43,710 --> 00:11:46,710 adoptee, that just totally compounds it by 10. 201 00:11:47,310 --> 00:11:51,190 Not having the birth story and not having the biology and the 202 00:11:51,270 --> 00:11:53,630 mirror and, oh, you look like that and I don't. 203 00:11:53,630 --> 00:11:57,110 And just so many things. Yeah, so many things. 204 00:11:57,820 --> 00:12:01,380 So it sounds like you guys kind of made a relationship as you 205 00:12:01,380 --> 00:12:03,660 got older, do you still have a relationship with your brother? 206 00:12:04,260 --> 00:12:06,700 We kind of do. We still live in our own worlds 207 00:12:06,780 --> 00:12:08,940 and our own stuff. He doesn't get that. 208 00:12:08,940 --> 00:12:11,860 I'm into all the the adoption stuff. 209 00:12:12,180 --> 00:12:15,460 He just doesn't understand. I don't expect him to understand 210 00:12:15,860 --> 00:12:17,980 because it didn't happen to him, you know? 211 00:12:18,380 --> 00:12:22,020 But we have different careers, Different again. 212 00:12:22,900 --> 00:12:26,980 Music's about the only thing we can agree on, and we're both 213 00:12:27,060 --> 00:12:31,100 kind of in a situation now. My our mom that raised us, 214 00:12:31,940 --> 00:12:33,420 birthed him and raised both of us. 215 00:12:33,620 --> 00:12:36,220 She's 93. She fell and broke her leg back 216 00:12:36,220 --> 00:12:39,980 at Easter time. We're having to deal a lot 217 00:12:39,980 --> 00:12:43,460 closer than we've had to for years because we have to start 218 00:12:43,460 --> 00:12:47,950 making decisions on her behalf. And care decisions because she 219 00:12:47,950 --> 00:12:51,070 can't live independently. So, you know, we're right coming 220 00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:54,550 back around a little bit. Yeah, so he's still including 221 00:12:54,550 --> 00:12:57,070 you and not making you feel like you're the outsider. 222 00:12:57,310 --> 00:12:59,590 You're included in your mom's decisions and. 223 00:12:59,830 --> 00:13:02,150 Right. So you said you always knew you 224 00:13:02,150 --> 00:13:04,750 were adopted. How did they do that? 225 00:13:04,990 --> 00:13:07,750 I mean, my parents kind of told me a story from when I was a 226 00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:10,430 baby, you know, so I I knew. But do you know? 227 00:13:10,810 --> 00:13:15,010 I have no idea. I have no idea how they told me 228 00:13:15,010 --> 00:13:19,730 or if there was a story. We did not have that book that a 229 00:13:19,730 --> 00:13:23,050 lot of people had, that chosen baby book or whatever. 230 00:13:23,730 --> 00:13:27,410 Yeah, they just said it and that was it. 231 00:13:27,450 --> 00:13:31,530 And you know, as I got a little bit older, they'd add on a 232 00:13:31,530 --> 00:13:35,610 little bit, you know, whatever was age appropriate, of course, 233 00:13:35,850 --> 00:13:38,370 really the factual information they had. 234 00:13:38,770 --> 00:13:44,050 Was like next to 0 regardless. So there really wasn't anything 235 00:13:44,130 --> 00:13:48,570 age inappropriate to tell me they were even told by the 236 00:13:48,570 --> 00:13:51,090 agency and it was just Hamilton County Welfare. 237 00:13:51,090 --> 00:13:54,570 This is not through Catholic Charities or any private place. 238 00:13:55,530 --> 00:13:58,810 They were told that my birth parents were married. 239 00:13:59,130 --> 00:14:01,170 Oh wow. It's a total lie. 240 00:14:01,370 --> 00:14:04,290 Yeah. Yeah, I think. 241 00:14:04,450 --> 00:14:06,730 That would make it even more confusing than why they give you 242 00:14:06,770 --> 00:14:11,280 up if they were married. Yeah, it would marry people. 243 00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:13,760 Yeah. And that he had a college 244 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:18,000 degree. Why would married people do 245 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,440 that, be in a situation where they had to do that? 246 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,880 Kind of didn't make sense. But I think maybe at the time, 247 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:29,560 you know, given that it was 1962, you know, and it made me. 248 00:14:30,020 --> 00:14:32,020 It made them. I don't think they were lying to 249 00:14:32,140 --> 00:14:33,860 you because they said it so many times. 250 00:14:33,860 --> 00:14:38,220 I mean it's and agencies did falsify, you know it didn't have 251 00:14:38,220 --> 00:14:39,820 to be religious ones that were doing it. 252 00:14:40,140 --> 00:14:43,580 You know that the idea that oh then I'm not illegitimate. 253 00:14:43,820 --> 00:14:47,820 Right, Yeah. You know that maybe that was 254 00:14:47,820 --> 00:14:52,300 like a thing that encouraged adoption, You know, they thought 255 00:14:52,340 --> 00:14:54,780 they aren't adopting a bastard child or? 256 00:14:54,820 --> 00:14:58,860 Something who knows, knows what they've made-up, why they make 257 00:14:58,860 --> 00:15:02,240 stuff up. I mean, yeah, yeah, who knows? 258 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,560 So growing up, did you consider yourself, or did you see 259 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,320 yourself as the compliant adoptee or the one that acted 260 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,680 out? I think I swung between both 261 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,400 ways, kind of depending on what the situation was. 262 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:19,360 If I really thought something was unfair or not right, or I 263 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,240 didn't understand it, I would act out and be mad about it. 264 00:15:23,590 --> 00:15:25,190 But, you know, then there were other things. 265 00:15:25,190 --> 00:15:27,190 Sure, fine, OK. Or I don't care. 266 00:15:27,190 --> 00:15:28,550 Whatever. You know, it. 267 00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:31,110 It just, I think it depended on the situation. 268 00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:35,750 But yeah, I know, you know, if I felt like just something wasn't 269 00:15:35,750 --> 00:15:39,310 right or something wasn't fair, even if I couldn't articulate it 270 00:15:40,110 --> 00:15:46,110 or I couldn't do any better than go, you know, which nobody's 271 00:15:46,110 --> 00:15:47,710 going to listen to a kid that does that. 272 00:15:47,710 --> 00:15:50,790 But still, you know that's. Yeah. 273 00:15:51,190 --> 00:15:52,950 So it sounds like you're pretty balanced. 274 00:15:53,350 --> 00:15:55,390 You were one or the other because you were an adoptee. 275 00:15:55,830 --> 00:15:57,390 I wasn't a kid that got in trouble. 276 00:15:57,470 --> 00:15:59,070 I was terrified to get in trouble. 277 00:16:00,670 --> 00:16:05,510 So I was very that way. Like, I am not going to smoke 278 00:16:05,510 --> 00:16:09,870 and I'm not going to drink before I'm 21 or 18 when I was 279 00:16:09,870 --> 00:16:13,910 18 when I was growing up. I'm not going to speed. 280 00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:17,630 I am not going to. Yeah, yeah, all the. 281 00:16:18,590 --> 00:16:19,470 Things. Yeah. 282 00:16:20,130 --> 00:16:23,370 So many adoptees say they have trouble attaching in 283 00:16:23,370 --> 00:16:25,010 relationships. Did you ever notice any 284 00:16:25,010 --> 00:16:29,210 difficulties attaching growing up or even later in life? 285 00:16:29,730 --> 00:16:33,730 Growing up, I didn't know any other way, so I couldn't compare 286 00:16:33,730 --> 00:16:36,370 anyway. But I think I was more attached 287 00:16:36,370 --> 00:16:39,090 to my grandmother's than I was to my parents. 288 00:16:39,530 --> 00:16:43,690 I would say there is absolutely no trouble at all attaching to 289 00:16:43,690 --> 00:16:45,930 my grandma's. My grandfathers were already 290 00:16:45,930 --> 00:16:48,050 passed away. I never knew them but my 2 291 00:16:48,050 --> 00:16:51,120 grandmas. My mom's mom, my dad's mom, I 292 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,080 was very attached to them and they were pretty much substitute 293 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,360 parents. And I think that was one of the 294 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:03,400 other reasons why I didn't get into trouble was because I knew 295 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,920 that would please them. I mean, who wouldn't it please 296 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,400 really. But you know that that was. 297 00:17:09,740 --> 00:17:13,140 To be compliant, it would be for their sake, nothing else. 298 00:17:13,300 --> 00:17:15,660 Right. So what about, you know, when 299 00:17:15,660 --> 00:17:19,099 your teenage years or in relationship growing up, did you 300 00:17:19,099 --> 00:17:21,540 see any problems there? Yeah, I mean, I had. 301 00:17:22,339 --> 00:17:25,660 It took a lot to make friends and feel like I had a close 302 00:17:25,660 --> 00:17:30,580 friend, like a bestie that took some doing and I kind of address 303 00:17:30,580 --> 00:17:33,330 it a little bit in the books. That, you know, as soon as you 304 00:17:33,330 --> 00:17:35,210 start making friends with somebody, that somebody's 305 00:17:35,330 --> 00:17:39,490 parents up and get transferred and they move away or something 306 00:17:39,490 --> 00:17:42,930 like that would happen or we'd make a life change, you know, So 307 00:17:42,930 --> 00:17:45,650 it was hard and that way, you know. 308 00:17:46,130 --> 00:17:48,010 What about romantic relationships? 309 00:17:48,730 --> 00:17:52,250 I think, and especially by the time I knew better and I was old 310 00:17:52,250 --> 00:17:55,530 enough. But growing up thinking she was 311 00:17:55,530 --> 00:18:00,290 17 now again who's married to a college degree guy and you're 312 00:18:00,490 --> 00:18:01,450 17. See. 313 00:18:01,450 --> 00:18:02,680 None of that. Adding up. 314 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:03,480 Right. So yeah. 315 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,040 But he listening to this point. What? 316 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,840 Wait, what? Yeah, Thinking okay. 317 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:12,680 If this happens when you're 17 guys, that's scary business. 318 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,600 You know, it's Yeah, trying to trust a guy. 319 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,320 It was trust. It's not like I didn't want to 320 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,680 do things or hear about things, but. 321 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,320 I can see that. It was like. 322 00:18:23,860 --> 00:18:25,700 It can't be me. Can't apply to me, right? 323 00:18:25,860 --> 00:18:27,980 Yeah. So that was a very scary thing. 324 00:18:28,260 --> 00:18:31,660 I mean, I met my husband. We actually grew up in the same 325 00:18:31,660 --> 00:18:34,980 school system together, but we started dating in high school. 326 00:18:35,060 --> 00:18:37,620 And it's like it's the only person I've ever trusted. 327 00:18:38,340 --> 00:18:42,100 So one marriage then, for you. One marriage, one guy. 328 00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:45,340 We're still together. And so yeah. 329 00:18:45,580 --> 00:18:48,140 And you have two kids, right? I have two daughters. 330 00:18:48,540 --> 00:18:51,660 Yeah, yeah. So what was it like having kids? 331 00:18:51,660 --> 00:18:54,860 I know some adoptees have trouble connecting with their 332 00:18:54,860 --> 00:18:58,180 babies because of adoption. Did you have any problems? 333 00:18:58,180 --> 00:19:01,140 You connected right away. I think I was the opposite. 334 00:19:01,140 --> 00:19:04,220 I was just like a nobody, taking you away from me there. 335 00:19:04,220 --> 00:19:07,180 And no way I'm losing you there. You are not going out of my 336 00:19:07,180 --> 00:19:08,940 sight. I don't know that I was a true 337 00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:12,180 helicopter, but I was. I was a Mama bear. 338 00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:13,300 Protective. Yeah. 339 00:19:13,300 --> 00:19:15,820 And. Still can be, you know, Yeah, I 340 00:19:15,820 --> 00:19:17,540 think somebody would do them wrong. 341 00:19:17,930 --> 00:19:20,090 Yeah, I'm, I'm coming at you. Yeah. 342 00:19:22,130 --> 00:19:26,010 So what was it like seeing someone biological, maybe for 343 00:19:26,010 --> 00:19:26,890 the first time? I'm not. 344 00:19:26,890 --> 00:19:28,730 We haven't gotten into your reunion story yet. 345 00:19:28,730 --> 00:19:30,970 But what was that like, seeing your child? 346 00:19:31,050 --> 00:19:37,770 It was just amazing and I hadn't seen my birth father, but yeah, 347 00:19:37,770 --> 00:19:41,130 and I looked at my first daughter when she was born. 348 00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:45,780 And I could see him in her face. Even in a newborn baby face, I 349 00:19:45,780 --> 00:19:49,500 could see it was something in the mouth and something in the 350 00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:53,860 upper left here, a little bit. The skin coloring it. 351 00:19:53,860 --> 00:19:56,500 It's just I could see it. I could see it in her. 352 00:19:56,860 --> 00:19:59,820 I knew where it came from. And that was so, so cool. 353 00:20:00,460 --> 00:20:03,260 That was my other daughter. She came out looking like my 354 00:20:03,260 --> 00:20:07,380 husband's people so. But it wasn't my birth people, 355 00:20:07,620 --> 00:20:10,170 you know? And I could see myself. 356 00:20:10,250 --> 00:20:12,090 And that was the other thing too, because we all have the 357 00:20:12,090 --> 00:20:15,570 same eyes. And I see that now I've got 3 358 00:20:15,570 --> 00:20:17,730 grandkids and all three grandkids. 359 00:20:18,170 --> 00:20:22,090 I can see things both in myself. Yeah. 360 00:20:22,090 --> 00:20:23,930 And my husband and my soninlaws, too. 361 00:20:24,010 --> 00:20:26,730 But I can see things in my birth family and them. 362 00:20:26,730 --> 00:20:28,690 Wow. Really cool. 363 00:20:29,570 --> 00:20:31,450 Yeah. So did you ever think about your 364 00:20:31,450 --> 00:20:33,530 biological family when you were growing up? 365 00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:37,260 more than I admitted to at the time. 366 00:20:37,340 --> 00:20:40,900 Growing up. I've decided I'm not going to be 367 00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:43,020 adopted. I'm going to forget about this 368 00:20:43,020 --> 00:20:45,220 whole thing. If we don't discuss it. 369 00:20:45,540 --> 00:20:48,620 This is going to be a secret. I'm not sharing it with anybody 370 00:20:48,740 --> 00:20:52,620 except the guy end up marrying, and I'm just going to unadapt 371 00:20:52,620 --> 00:20:56,940 myself. Not going to happen And lie 372 00:20:56,940 --> 00:20:59,860 through my teeth to just about everybody about it. 373 00:21:00,510 --> 00:21:03,950 And yeah, and I I looked enough like the family I was raised in 374 00:21:03,950 --> 00:21:08,230 that I could fake it. Nobody, nobody know, you know. 375 00:21:08,790 --> 00:21:11,910 So yeah, just never said anything to anybody. 376 00:21:11,910 --> 00:21:14,190 You know, you get in these discussions with people about 377 00:21:14,590 --> 00:21:17,750 family history or traits or whatever, I could just sort of 378 00:21:17,950 --> 00:21:22,190 BS alone, you know? And that's the way I did it. 379 00:21:22,190 --> 00:21:26,270 So yes, I thought about him. I'd have moments popping up here 380 00:21:26,270 --> 00:21:31,230 and there, but then I just sort of like like shoving stuff down 381 00:21:31,230 --> 00:21:34,350 in a box on there and then putting a padlock. 382 00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:36,110 On it, Yeah. Yeah. 383 00:21:36,710 --> 00:21:39,710 So tell us about the search. Did you do DNA? 384 00:21:39,710 --> 00:21:41,510 It was probably too early to do DNA. 385 00:21:42,070 --> 00:21:44,270 I was old school. It was back in the 80s, okay. 386 00:21:44,510 --> 00:21:47,270 So in Ohio. Let's back it up a little bit. 387 00:21:47,390 --> 00:21:51,510 In Ohio, Ohio's records are basically open now, unless 388 00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:53,470 there's a letter of rescission in your file. 389 00:21:53,870 --> 00:21:58,430 But in the time I was born, if you were born before 1964, which 390 00:21:58,430 --> 00:22:01,350 I fell into that category, my record was open. 391 00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:04,310 Did not know that growing up. Wow. 392 00:22:04,830 --> 00:22:09,130 My parents, I think, and this is one of those where people's you. 393 00:22:09,170 --> 00:22:11,210 You hear what you want to hear, you think what you want to 394 00:22:11,210 --> 00:22:13,210 think. If somebody doesn't tell you 395 00:22:13,250 --> 00:22:14,970 otherwise, you make the assumption. 396 00:22:15,930 --> 00:22:17,250 I don't believe they lied at all. 397 00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:20,410 I believe they were just uneducated about the law. 398 00:22:21,210 --> 00:22:25,450 They they didn't want to know, you know, and they believed if 399 00:22:25,450 --> 00:22:31,330 it was a closed adoption that meant closed forever and not 400 00:22:31,330 --> 00:22:37,070 closed but or closed until they didn't think about that part. 401 00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:40,430 So all they ever said was it was a closed adoption. 402 00:22:40,550 --> 00:22:44,190 So I grew up leaving that it was impossible to find them anyway. 403 00:22:44,190 --> 00:22:46,910 There's another reason to kind of unadopt and just forget about 404 00:22:46,910 --> 00:22:50,950 everything and happen. Because if it's impossible, you 405 00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:55,910 know, I can either frustrate myself and be really pissed and 406 00:22:55,910 --> 00:23:00,750 be that angry adoptee person or just we ain't dealing with it 407 00:23:02,300 --> 00:23:06,540 and it didn't happen. So how did you find them? 408 00:23:07,460 --> 00:23:11,260 We were watching ATV talk show one night, and it was about 409 00:23:11,260 --> 00:23:13,540 adoption. It was a local talk show. 410 00:23:13,540 --> 00:23:17,020 Nobody, anybody here would ever have heard of people here in 411 00:23:17,020 --> 00:23:20,460 Cincinnati. And they had a panel and it was 412 00:23:20,460 --> 00:23:23,260 all done very civilly. So it wasn't like watching Maury 413 00:23:23,260 --> 00:23:26,180 or any of those guys. They weren't screaming and 414 00:23:26,180 --> 00:23:29,780 crying. And it was sort of a point 415 00:23:29,780 --> 00:23:33,580 counterpoint with the pros and cons of finding people and so 416 00:23:33,580 --> 00:23:36,500 forth. And that's where they disclose 417 00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:38,460 that. If you already don't know about 418 00:23:38,460 --> 00:23:44,140 this House Bill 84 in Ohio says your records are open if you 419 00:23:44,140 --> 00:23:46,980 were born before January 1st, 1964. 420 00:23:48,020 --> 00:23:49,100 Wow. Husband and I looked at each 421 00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:52,940 other and went what? That's not what my parents were 422 00:23:52,940 --> 00:23:56,670 told, you know. And so that kind of was the 423 00:23:56,830 --> 00:23:59,870 trigger spark that got the ball rolling. 424 00:23:59,870 --> 00:24:07,230 So it was 1987 at the time, and we didn't have kids yet. 425 00:24:07,350 --> 00:24:10,070 And I took down all the information. 426 00:24:10,310 --> 00:24:13,670 Oh, the birth mother who was on there was a member of Cub, 427 00:24:13,990 --> 00:24:16,960 Concerned United Birth Parents. And I didn't know. 428 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,560 They had a local chapter here in town at the time. 429 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,000 And it was open to everybody. It was not just for birth 430 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,920 parents because there was nothing for adopted people at 431 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,960 the time. Oh, but they were like they were 432 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,520 saying on this talk show, you know, anybody. 433 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,160 And at the time, the Triad, now the Constellation. 434 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,640 But, you know, anybody could go. So I decided I'm going to go to 435 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,560 the meetings, check it out. You walk into these meetings 436 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,480 with people and you're looking around like, could you be my 437 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,380 cousin? Could you be right? 438 00:24:46,060 --> 00:24:48,140 Yeah. You know, you just that's how it 439 00:24:48,140 --> 00:24:52,300 is. And I met two friends there. 440 00:24:52,380 --> 00:24:55,180 One we're we're all friends to this day. 441 00:24:55,700 --> 00:24:59,540 And so that's kind of cool. And first time I'd really been 442 00:24:59,540 --> 00:25:04,300 in a room with a bunch of other adopted people and an adoptive 443 00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:08,180 parent besides my own parents and with birth parents. 444 00:25:08,460 --> 00:25:12,320 And yeah, I mean, it really got me thinking. 445 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:17,880 It really educated me and it was the best thing to do before 446 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,680 taking any other steps. So they told me, though, okay, 447 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,840 here's how you do it. You write to Columbus or your 448 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,560 state capital, send them the $20 certified check because they're 449 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,360 raised to their money and you know, they send you a packet 450 00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:34,000 back. Whatever's in your file, it 451 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,680 might be a Xerox copy. It might not be the actual 452 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,800 documents because they still have to keep a file. 453 00:25:40,110 --> 00:25:43,830 Yeah, I've often thought, Gee, I should do it again and see if 454 00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:46,590 they send me the exact same papers, Right. 455 00:25:47,790 --> 00:25:50,390 I may do that. Would that be something blow 20 456 00:25:50,390 --> 00:25:55,110 bucks and yeah, yeah. So do they keep moving the date 457 00:25:55,110 --> 00:25:58,030 now or is it still 1964? It's, yeah. 458 00:25:58,030 --> 00:26:01,870 In 2015, I believe they opened it to everybody. 459 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,640 I went to the opening of that. It was very cool, very 460 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,640 historical, very. Yeah, it was nice just to go as 461 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,560 a support person for other people, right? 462 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,800 Because I'd already found my people. 463 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,560 And by that point I was getting involved with people online with 464 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,240 adoption. And that's how I found out about 465 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:19,080 that. Yeah. 466 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,120 Oh, cool. But that's only 90 minutes from 467 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:24,040 here, so. So I get my paperwork back. 468 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,400 That was in April. We had watched that show. 469 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,880 Maybe in March Got the paperwork back. 470 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:29,920 As fast? Wow. 471 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,590 Yeah. And then I teach and I've just 472 00:26:33,630 --> 00:26:37,390 that point in the school year, it was like I can't do anything 473 00:26:37,390 --> 00:26:41,510 about this till summer anyway. I don't have the time, but we'll 474 00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:44,150 get the papers and see what the papers just say. 475 00:26:44,270 --> 00:26:47,910 I've always kind of equated it to like when you open up a bag 476 00:26:47,910 --> 00:26:53,310 of chips and you think you're going to eat one, the Pringle 477 00:26:53,310 --> 00:26:55,710 chips, right. You just a couple out of there 478 00:26:55,710 --> 00:26:57,070 and you think you're going to be good. 479 00:26:57,110 --> 00:26:59,510 And then now you got to go back and get some more. 480 00:26:59,510 --> 00:27:03,230 And he does. And then now you want more. 481 00:27:03,230 --> 00:27:05,790 And so you go back again. And that's kind of what it was 482 00:27:05,790 --> 00:27:07,550 like. It was like this addiction 483 00:27:07,550 --> 00:27:09,910 building up. All of a sudden, the more I 484 00:27:09,910 --> 00:27:14,590 knew, the more I wanted to know, wasn't more of a, oh, I hate 485 00:27:14,590 --> 00:27:16,670 adoption. I'm going to make adoption go 486 00:27:16,670 --> 00:27:18,030 away. That's never going to be a part 487 00:27:18,030 --> 00:27:21,750 of my life. But then all of a sudden it was 488 00:27:21,750 --> 00:27:25,350 like now I have some power that I didn't have. 489 00:27:25,790 --> 00:27:29,000 So you got names and. And I got names, yeah. 490 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,680 So my birth mother's name, of course, was on there. 491 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:36,040 And what her profession was at the time, she was a waitress at 492 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:41,320 the time and where she was living at the time here in town, 493 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,960 all about 20 minutes away from where we live. 494 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,520 And I got lucky. I got extremely lucky and it's 495 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,800 extremely rare. My birth father's name was on 496 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,890 there also. And usually that never happens 497 00:27:55,730 --> 00:27:58,650 because either it's sort of like a one night stand thing or they 498 00:27:58,650 --> 00:28:03,450 don't even know who the guy is or that was a bad situation and 499 00:28:03,810 --> 00:28:06,810 they didn't want to name a name or something. 500 00:28:06,810 --> 00:28:10,850 But she and my birth father's name on there and she knew his 501 00:28:10,850 --> 00:28:12,650 occupation. So it's like this was not a 502 00:28:12,650 --> 00:28:15,530 stranger. Yeah, she knew to put on there 503 00:28:15,530 --> 00:28:17,900 that. Yeah, it wasn't like something 504 00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:21,140 was unknown. She knew what how to fill out or 505 00:28:21,140 --> 00:28:24,300 provide the information to whoever filled it out and 506 00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:29,020 everything was correct on there. So what was that like, seeing 507 00:28:29,180 --> 00:28:31,300 something different than what you were told? 508 00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:33,100 Right. And the other thing that was on 509 00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:36,740 there was my birth name, but I would have been named had she 510 00:28:36,740 --> 00:28:39,740 been able to keep me or even had he kept me. 511 00:28:40,620 --> 00:28:45,620 So that was really revealing to me that would that was like. 512 00:28:47,210 --> 00:28:50,250 Yeah, How does that feel? Because I I grew up hating my 513 00:28:50,250 --> 00:28:53,530 name because it was, it would make fun of you for it. 514 00:28:53,530 --> 00:28:56,090 Just people tease you. People spell it wrong. 515 00:28:56,090 --> 00:28:57,970 People act stupid about your name. 516 00:28:58,450 --> 00:29:02,930 And I just made me hate my name. And that's one thing I did know 517 00:29:02,930 --> 00:29:06,770 growing up is that my parents that raised me picked my name. 518 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:12,200 So somehow, what did anybody call me before my parents who 519 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,640 raised me? Was I just, hey, you in the crib 520 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,040 or what? You know and. 521 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,800 I wonder that, too. Yeah, I was when I got old 522 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,880 enough to start processing. Enough to wonder, Gee, did I 523 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,440 have a different name before? What would it have been if I 524 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,760 did, you know? Yeah, I was wondering if the 525 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,560 foster parents named me something totally different, you 526 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,800 know, and called me something totally different. 527 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:43,080 Yeah, I have no idea about any of the foster part is a total 528 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,200 blank. Yeah, I saw that. 529 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,160 It was just mind blowing. But it was kind of good that I 530 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,920 didn't jump into it immediately to searching because it was so 531 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,320 much to take in just on this piece of paper. 532 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,640 And there was a decree of adoption with my dad who raised 533 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,960 me signature on it, you know, and the judge stamped of, you 534 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,520 know, of approval on it. There was a name change document 535 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,040 that changed my name from what it would have been to what it 536 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:13,520 became. Yeah. 537 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:19,160 And then the original birth certificate copy and a current 538 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,160 functional whatever you want to call it, legalized birth 539 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,040 certificate copy. Like, they obviously got the 540 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,640 right person there, didn't have the numbers mixed up or anything 541 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,080 like that. So that was just like. 542 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:37,920 And so when school let out, I pretty much hit the pavement and 543 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,720 just went downtown because everybody, everything on my 544 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,880 paperwork was totally local to here in Cincinnati. 545 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,640 That's where I start. So go down to downtown, go to 546 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,080 the courthouse, go to the Public Library, main branch, back and 547 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,800 forth between the two. And I spent June and July, just 548 00:30:56,370 --> 00:31:02,210 nobody tracked steps then. But I can only imagine, well 549 00:31:02,210 --> 00:31:04,930 from one end, then back to the other end and back here, then 550 00:31:04,970 --> 00:31:07,410 back here. And that's what I did. 551 00:31:07,730 --> 00:31:11,170 So did you find out from just doing that that your mother had 552 00:31:11,170 --> 00:31:13,890 passed through not yet. Public records? 553 00:31:14,050 --> 00:31:18,930 Okay I went through old between any public records that I could 554 00:31:18,930 --> 00:31:22,410 find and then they used to have these things called Williams 555 00:31:22,410 --> 00:31:25,650 Crisscross directories that would list a person's name, a 556 00:31:25,650 --> 00:31:30,050 current address, a profession or at least field that a person 557 00:31:30,050 --> 00:31:33,450 worked in if not the specific business. 558 00:31:33,650 --> 00:31:37,770 Kind of built a timeline for each parent to track where they 559 00:31:37,770 --> 00:31:41,890 had been and where they were going and just and she dropped 560 00:31:41,890 --> 00:31:47,690 off the timeline around 19691970 and I couldn't find anything 561 00:31:47,690 --> 00:31:49,930 more about her. I was able to find out that she 562 00:31:49,930 --> 00:31:56,520 married but a different guy and it was my sister's dad and he 563 00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:01,320 married a different lady and all of a sudden she dropped off the 564 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,160 timeline. So I kept continuing with him 565 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,240 and I periodically check and go, well you know, maybe they just 566 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,720 for some reason they just weren't listed one year. 567 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:16,840 So I keep checking Her husband reappeared in the directories 568 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:21,930 later on, but not with her. So that made me think. 569 00:32:22,210 --> 00:32:25,090 But it's funny, growing up to that was another way I was 570 00:32:25,090 --> 00:32:27,210 shutting out adoption going well, she's probably dead 571 00:32:27,210 --> 00:32:30,010 anyway. Yeah, I just. 572 00:32:30,010 --> 00:32:33,370 Kind of had that knowing maybe. Well, there's no point in 573 00:32:33,370 --> 00:32:37,130 dealing with this because she's probably dead, so you know. 574 00:32:37,610 --> 00:32:41,450 And I had that hunch all along, but I couldn't find a death 575 00:32:41,450 --> 00:32:45,530 certificate so you should be able to find those too. 576 00:32:46,350 --> 00:32:50,510 Is not able to locate one. And my parents that raised me 577 00:32:50,910 --> 00:32:53,590 were actually married over in Northern Kentucky on the other 578 00:32:53,590 --> 00:32:56,710 side of the river. So I I even went up across the 579 00:32:56,710 --> 00:32:59,870 river to Kent County and went through their courthouse and 580 00:32:59,870 --> 00:33:01,550 their library looking for things. 581 00:33:01,950 --> 00:33:04,310 Could not find anything on my birth family. 582 00:33:05,190 --> 00:33:07,870 So it's like well nothing happened there. 583 00:33:08,470 --> 00:33:11,830 They were all in Cincinnati and I even Claremont County which is 584 00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:15,590 1 county over to the east of Hamilton where I live. 585 00:33:16,290 --> 00:33:19,570 Nothing over there. So they must have just stayed 586 00:33:19,570 --> 00:33:22,850 right there in town. But I couldn't find anything on 587 00:33:22,850 --> 00:33:26,530 her, but I found her the the guy, right? 588 00:33:26,970 --> 00:33:32,890 So I wrote a letter to him, her husband or her. 589 00:33:32,890 --> 00:33:35,130 Yeah, the address was there. There was no phone number, but 590 00:33:35,130 --> 00:33:38,370 the address was there. And I had an address on my birth 591 00:33:38,370 --> 00:33:40,570 father too. I actually had done a drive by 592 00:33:40,570 --> 00:33:47,000 at his house, so I seen his car and knew that he worked for 593 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,160 General Motors because that's what the directory said. 594 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:55,440 And I also found out on the news that same summer General Motors 595 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,720 here in town was closing down. He was losing the job. 596 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,760 Not the time to contact this guy because he's losing his job and 597 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,920 though he was at an age, he could have taken early 598 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,199 retirement. But maybe he would do that. 599 00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:14,100 You call it a day or maybe it'd be a I can't afford to early 600 00:34:14,100 --> 00:34:15,820 retire. I got to keep working now or. 601 00:34:15,820 --> 00:34:19,300 Maybe I'm going to move and then you'd lose the address, you 602 00:34:19,300 --> 00:34:20,100 know? Right. 603 00:34:20,139 --> 00:34:22,659 Right. But I thought, I cannot contact 604 00:34:22,659 --> 00:34:27,460 him here in the middle of July because he's losing his job and 605 00:34:27,900 --> 00:34:30,860 that's devastating. That's another kind of loss. 606 00:34:30,940 --> 00:34:35,020 After 20 years working somewhere to have that happen to you, 607 00:34:35,860 --> 00:34:38,500 that's that's a loss, another kind of grief. 608 00:34:39,179 --> 00:34:43,429 So because obviously he worked in the same place for so long, 609 00:34:43,429 --> 00:34:46,989 he was dedicated and he stuck with things, right. 610 00:34:46,989 --> 00:34:49,190 He was in the same home address all that time. 611 00:34:49,830 --> 00:34:53,550 Not a guy does a bunch of changes tell that about him. 612 00:34:53,909 --> 00:34:56,270 So okay, let's leave him alone for a little while. 613 00:34:56,630 --> 00:35:02,670 I had the other guy's address and who my would be stepfather. 614 00:35:03,270 --> 00:35:08,810 I had things work differently and wrote to him just saying and 615 00:35:08,810 --> 00:35:12,530 the cub people said at the meeting just tell them you're 616 00:35:12,930 --> 00:35:16,490 trying to find some family history information or you have 617 00:35:16,530 --> 00:35:22,810 urgent family business with so and so and see what what the guy 618 00:35:22,810 --> 00:35:26,690 tells you. So he wrote me back even though 619 00:35:26,690 --> 00:35:30,930 I left a phone number. He wrote me back, but okay and 620 00:35:30,930 --> 00:35:35,050 he said she passed away in Long Beach, CA in 1976. 621 00:35:36,750 --> 00:35:40,590 So my gut was right and it explained why I couldn't find 622 00:35:40,590 --> 00:35:43,390 anything about her because she left. 623 00:35:44,510 --> 00:35:47,150 In fact, he'd left too. But he came back. 624 00:35:47,150 --> 00:35:50,510 He moved back. They had found out the story 625 00:35:50,510 --> 00:35:54,670 later from my sister. They had divorced here in town, 626 00:35:54,670 --> 00:36:00,350 but we're kind of together and they all decided she and my 627 00:36:00,350 --> 00:36:07,970 sister and her dad and the dad's brother and his wife and kids, 628 00:36:07,970 --> 00:36:11,490 They all decided to pack up all their belongings, leave town 629 00:36:11,490 --> 00:36:14,010 here and go to California. Start life over. 630 00:36:15,010 --> 00:36:17,610 Reboot your life. So is your sister in California? 631 00:36:17,770 --> 00:36:23,330 She had moved up to Portland OR by that, but she lived there for 632 00:36:23,330 --> 00:36:24,850 a while. She went to high school there. 633 00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:27,460 So the letter that he wrote you, was it? 634 00:36:27,500 --> 00:36:29,780 He said. Was he gentle about telling you 635 00:36:29,780 --> 00:36:32,100 or was he? Yeah, I mean, you know, and I 636 00:36:32,100 --> 00:36:34,500 mean some of it, Yeah, it's just. 637 00:36:34,740 --> 00:36:36,060 Did he know about you? He did. 638 00:36:36,220 --> 00:36:38,860 He did. But I didn't tell him who I was, 639 00:36:38,860 --> 00:36:42,740 just that I was doing family research trying to find my birth 640 00:36:42,740 --> 00:36:44,380 mother. Well, I didn't say I'm finding 641 00:36:44,380 --> 00:36:46,820 my birth after I'm finding this person. 642 00:36:47,620 --> 00:36:50,300 And so he said she died in Long Beach, CA. 643 00:36:50,300 --> 00:36:53,660 He said sorry, signed his name and put his phone number on 644 00:36:53,660 --> 00:36:56,970 there. Then I called him, figured out 645 00:36:57,130 --> 00:36:59,450 what he ain't going to put his phone number on there if he 646 00:36:59,450 --> 00:37:04,810 doesn't mind. So I talked to the the new wife 647 00:37:04,810 --> 00:37:07,330 picked up the phone and then she passed it on to him. 648 00:37:07,410 --> 00:37:09,530 He knew all about me, She had told him. 649 00:37:09,730 --> 00:37:13,250 He invited me and my husband to come over and he had some 650 00:37:13,250 --> 00:37:17,090 picture albums. So that Saturday we went over 651 00:37:17,090 --> 00:37:20,930 there. Yeah, he gave me a picture and 652 00:37:21,890 --> 00:37:24,890 did not know where to find his daughter. 653 00:37:25,010 --> 00:37:29,650 I don't know who loses track of your kid, but didn't know where 654 00:37:29,650 --> 00:37:31,810 she was. He didn't know if she was still 655 00:37:31,810 --> 00:37:34,930 in California or she gone somewhere else. 656 00:37:35,250 --> 00:37:37,370 But that's the last time he'd seen her. 657 00:37:37,370 --> 00:37:40,130 That's where she was down in Long Beach, CA. 658 00:37:41,250 --> 00:37:45,890 Oh, I had her maiden name. And then he told me that after 659 00:37:45,890 --> 00:37:48,490 they'd gotten to California and remember they were divorced. 660 00:37:48,490 --> 00:37:53,310 So she went off and met another guy and got married and had a 661 00:37:53,310 --> 00:37:57,470 baby That there was a another sister out there and he knew the 662 00:37:57,470 --> 00:38:01,790 name of the next husband who was the father of my other sister, 663 00:38:01,790 --> 00:38:05,190 my younger sister. So he didn't have an address. 664 00:38:05,190 --> 00:38:08,310 He didn't have a phone number. She got his real foggy on 665 00:38:08,590 --> 00:38:14,030 memory, but he knew just enough to tell me just enough and it 666 00:38:14,030 --> 00:38:17,670 meant I had to go back to hit directory assistance. 667 00:38:17,710 --> 00:38:20,510 This was back in the day where if you made calls to directory 668 00:38:20,510 --> 00:38:23,710 assistance over a certain number of calls within a month, they 669 00:38:23,710 --> 00:38:28,510 started billing you. Yep, and we're talking 1980 670 00:38:28,510 --> 00:38:31,230 Seven's money. I ran up a $300.00 phone bill. 671 00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:34,070 Oh my God. Which I don't know what that 672 00:38:34,070 --> 00:38:36,590 would have been today's money, but you know, that's what it 673 00:38:36,590 --> 00:38:38,230 was. Probably at least 1000. 674 00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:39,670 At least that's what I'm thinking. 675 00:38:39,830 --> 00:38:43,470 Yeah, I figured it's still less than a detective, you know, 676 00:38:43,550 --> 00:38:45,110 right? I wrote to the state of 677 00:38:45,110 --> 00:38:48,350 California, got my birth mother's death certificate from 678 00:38:48,350 --> 00:38:50,910 them, which had a home address on it. 679 00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:55,190 Had her spouse at the time listed as the informant. 680 00:38:55,270 --> 00:38:59,670 And so I had a little bit more information on her, knew where 681 00:38:59,670 --> 00:39:03,750 to write to, hoping the guy hadn't moved and he hadn't. 682 00:39:03,750 --> 00:39:08,550 He was there, so that letter came and what he did. 683 00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:11,990 Then when he got that letter, my older sister, he he knew where 684 00:39:11,990 --> 00:39:17,050 she was and how to contact her. He called my older sister, who 685 00:39:17,050 --> 00:39:20,690 was living in the Portland, OR area and told her he got this 686 00:39:20,690 --> 00:39:22,970 letter. What do you want me to do with 687 00:39:22,970 --> 00:39:26,970 it? I know exactly who that is. 688 00:39:27,210 --> 00:39:30,690 And so he gave her all the contact information that I'd 689 00:39:30,690 --> 00:39:34,090 provided in the letter. And then one night in January of 690 00:39:34,090 --> 00:39:36,370 1988, she called me. Wow. 691 00:39:36,970 --> 00:39:37,970 And so you. Got it. 692 00:39:38,130 --> 00:39:40,250 You got both sisters at the same time then? 693 00:39:40,250 --> 00:39:43,480 Pretty much, yeah. Did they let you see your 13 694 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,360 year old sister or we did that following summer again, once I 695 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,680 was off work and could travel, we thought to it was sort of a 696 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,120 bucket list. Living here. 697 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:56,520 I've never been past Chicago. Let's let's take this really 698 00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,680 cool trip. This is like better than a 699 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,240 honeymoon. Let's do this, you know? 700 00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:05,760 And I flew out a week ahead of time, so I had about a week with 701 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:10,290 my older sister in Portland. We sightsaw, we hung out at the 702 00:40:10,290 --> 00:40:13,570 house and just did house. Normal people every day, not 703 00:40:14,050 --> 00:40:18,290 things you know, got pizza, you know that just you know hung out 704 00:40:18,290 --> 00:40:20,130 with her kids and stuff like that. 705 00:40:20,170 --> 00:40:22,450 So just had real lifetime which was great. 706 00:40:23,050 --> 00:40:26,210 And then my husband came out on like a Friday or something 707 00:40:26,210 --> 00:40:28,450 because he didn't have all that time off work like I had. 708 00:40:29,010 --> 00:40:34,650 And then few more days together went picnicking and just hanging 709 00:40:34,650 --> 00:40:38,100 out again. And then we got on a plane, went 710 00:40:38,100 --> 00:40:40,700 to San Francisco for two nights just to hang out. 711 00:40:40,900 --> 00:40:43,060 And just like, when are we going to get back here? 712 00:40:43,700 --> 00:40:45,820 Yeah, just I'd see this be tourists. 713 00:40:46,660 --> 00:40:50,220 Then we rented a car in San Francisco and drove down the 714 00:40:50,220 --> 00:40:53,860 California coastline on Hwy. 1. Like, this is like something out 715 00:40:53,860 --> 00:40:56,740 of the movies. See this on TV. 716 00:40:57,260 --> 00:40:59,460 And like, it's real. Wow. 717 00:40:59,580 --> 00:41:02,260 You know, I mean it was like from compared to being here, it 718 00:41:02,260 --> 00:41:03,780 was like being on another planet. 719 00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:08,190 Neither of us had seen that part of the country or the world 720 00:41:08,190 --> 00:41:10,350 before. And we drove all the way down 721 00:41:10,350 --> 00:41:15,230 into LA and then got it had a motel lined up in like South LA. 722 00:41:16,070 --> 00:41:20,230 Then saw the other sister for the next like 6 days that we 723 00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:23,030 were still there. So how did the reunions go with 724 00:41:23,030 --> 00:41:26,750 your sisters then? Everything was beautiful, just 725 00:41:27,190 --> 00:41:30,590 completely amazing. I mean, it was, and it was very 726 00:41:30,590 --> 00:41:32,350 helpful that they knew about me all along. 727 00:41:32,970 --> 00:41:35,970 So wasn't like some secret barging in on their lives they 728 00:41:35,970 --> 00:41:39,290 were kind of prepared for and hoping for someday. 729 00:41:39,770 --> 00:41:43,930 But being that they were in a position of being many thousands 730 00:41:43,930 --> 00:41:47,410 of miles away and not really knowing what to do or how to do 731 00:41:47,410 --> 00:41:51,930 it, and not nobody having the means to hire detectives, they 732 00:41:51,930 --> 00:41:56,010 didn't know how to find me. Did you have any resemblances to 733 00:41:56,010 --> 00:41:58,170 them or do you guys look alike at all? 734 00:41:58,250 --> 00:42:01,970 Or my younger sister and I look a lot alike. 735 00:42:02,860 --> 00:42:05,060 It's amazing. In fact, I've seen some pictures 736 00:42:05,060 --> 00:42:09,940 ever on Facebook this morning looking at them and I I still 737 00:42:09,940 --> 00:42:13,020 kind of go, Oh my God, yeah, yeah, this doesn't get old. 738 00:42:13,020 --> 00:42:15,860 So you must must resemble your mom a little bit then? 739 00:42:16,300 --> 00:42:20,780 Well, people say I do, I don't know, I can't tell. 740 00:42:20,820 --> 00:42:23,660 And all the photos we have are either they're a little bit 741 00:42:23,660 --> 00:42:27,540 blurry or they're just aged and you or black and white and from 742 00:42:27,540 --> 00:42:31,140 so long ago. I can't tell, but maybe you 743 00:42:31,460 --> 00:42:33,650 know. Did you see any physical 744 00:42:33,650 --> 00:42:38,690 resemblances or like you know how you your personality or how 745 00:42:38,690 --> 00:42:40,770 you move physically or anything like that? 746 00:42:40,770 --> 00:42:43,690 Weird little quirky things that you saw again. 747 00:42:43,770 --> 00:42:47,170 My younger sister and I a lot, Yeah. 748 00:42:47,170 --> 00:42:50,690 I've got some pictures of us. When we first met, we were both 749 00:42:50,690 --> 00:42:54,570 in khaki shorts and tan shirts, which that wasn't planned. 750 00:42:55,890 --> 00:42:58,700 And we're sitting there on the couch looking at each other, but 751 00:42:58,700 --> 00:43:01,340 we're kind of like sitting a little like this, like, don't 752 00:43:01,340 --> 00:43:06,580 get too close here, but, you know, you know, because again, 753 00:43:06,580 --> 00:43:08,980 I'm 20 something. She's the age of the kids I 754 00:43:08,980 --> 00:43:11,980 teach, you know. So it's like, how do I approach 755 00:43:11,980 --> 00:43:14,780 this? You know, I'm teacher, I'm her 756 00:43:14,780 --> 00:43:16,860 sister. I've never, you know, I'm going 757 00:43:16,860 --> 00:43:18,980 through. I had sisters before, you know. 758 00:43:20,380 --> 00:43:21,860 How'd it go with your dad's side? 759 00:43:21,980 --> 00:43:23,700 Did you meet your dad? I did. 760 00:43:23,780 --> 00:43:27,500 I did In between all these things that went on. 761 00:43:27,930 --> 00:43:32,370 So back it up to that July where his business, his work, closed 762 00:43:32,370 --> 00:43:36,970 down and he lost his job. I waited until about September 763 00:43:36,970 --> 00:43:39,010 and then I sent him a letter again. 764 00:43:39,010 --> 00:43:41,410 He lived in town, but I didn't have a phone number because it 765 00:43:41,410 --> 00:43:44,130 was unlisted. So I sent him a letter, sent him 766 00:43:44,130 --> 00:43:47,770 copies of my papers. And so he would know I wasn't 767 00:43:47,770 --> 00:43:53,370 like some con artists and just said, you know, here I am and 768 00:43:54,130 --> 00:43:58,530 here's where I live and here's what I do for a living and hope 769 00:43:58,530 --> 00:44:00,810 you're well. And I'd love to hear from you. 770 00:44:01,410 --> 00:44:04,210 And. And I I think I did say in the 771 00:44:04,210 --> 00:44:06,770 letter and by the way, you know, I tried to contact my birth 772 00:44:06,770 --> 00:44:11,210 mother, but she's passed away because sometimes it's like if 773 00:44:11,290 --> 00:44:14,610 the ones partner isn't there, then the other partner feels 774 00:44:14,610 --> 00:44:17,970 freer maybe or less. I don't want to get involved 775 00:44:17,970 --> 00:44:19,810 with that person again, you know? 776 00:44:20,370 --> 00:44:22,810 Yeah. So it's like, yeah, you don't 777 00:44:22,810 --> 00:44:24,890 have to deal with an X here. Right. 778 00:44:25,390 --> 00:44:28,510 So I wanted him to know those things, that it's safe to 779 00:44:28,510 --> 00:44:31,390 approach me because you're not going to have to deal with an 780 00:44:31,390 --> 00:44:35,350 exgirlfriend or anything like that without saying it in those 781 00:44:35,350 --> 00:44:37,390 exact words. He did. 782 00:44:37,430 --> 00:44:42,110 It took him a week and then he contacted me back and we got 783 00:44:42,110 --> 00:44:46,670 together in October, got together for dinner at a Denny's 784 00:44:46,670 --> 00:44:49,870 restaurant. Then my husband went with me and 785 00:44:50,670 --> 00:44:56,340 I could see the resemblance with him a lot more than I expected. 786 00:44:56,380 --> 00:44:59,020 But of course he's sitting there going, you look just like her. 787 00:44:59,020 --> 00:45:02,740 But yeah, I looked like you, but. 788 00:45:02,980 --> 00:45:05,700 Okay. Everybody sees different things. 789 00:45:06,020 --> 00:45:08,820 He saw what he was seeing. I saw what I was seeing and and 790 00:45:08,820 --> 00:45:11,940 that's kind of that. And he said at the time his 791 00:45:11,940 --> 00:45:18,420 family knew nothing about me. Was he still married to the, the 792 00:45:18,740 --> 00:45:14,580 lady that he was married to? He hadn't told anybody. 793 00:45:14,740 --> 00:45:16,500 So I'm OK. I was kind of. 794 00:45:20,500 --> 00:45:23,540 The Yeah, they were. In fact, they were married 52 795 00:45:23,540 --> 00:45:26,060 years and they picked the wrong life, I mean. 796 00:45:26,140 --> 00:45:29,260 He said he said that I'm thinking that he did marry the 797 00:45:29,260 --> 00:45:31,740 right person for him. Oh, he did? 798 00:45:32,060 --> 00:45:35,980 Yeah, Yeah, So. And he said something that night 799 00:45:35,980 --> 00:45:38,060 about I knew it wouldn't have worked out. 800 00:45:38,140 --> 00:45:40,860 And when you get married, you marry not just person, but the 801 00:45:40,860 --> 00:45:44,140 whole family, which is not, like, great advice. 802 00:45:44,140 --> 00:45:46,540 Really. Yeah, like this first piece of 803 00:45:46,540 --> 00:45:49,660 dad advice. Although I already do those 804 00:45:49,660 --> 00:45:52,660 things but. Is he still around? 805 00:45:52,740 --> 00:45:56,660 He passed away in 2015. Yeah, we had in a long time 806 00:45:56,780 --> 00:45:59,100 anyway, he said. We'll get together again. 807 00:45:59,300 --> 00:46:02,460 We agreed to meet like a week, week and a half later. 808 00:46:02,460 --> 00:46:06,260 We were going to go to another restaurant and we got to the 809 00:46:06,260 --> 00:46:07,900 restaurant. My husband and I got to the 810 00:46:07,900 --> 00:46:11,340 restaurant and waited and waited and waited and didn't know if we 811 00:46:11,340 --> 00:46:13,860 should order food or not because he wasn't coming. 812 00:46:13,900 --> 00:46:19,230 And then he called the restaurant and said, you know, 813 00:46:19,230 --> 00:46:21,710 and this is before cell phone, so they couldn't message us. 814 00:46:22,030 --> 00:46:25,910 He called the restaurant and they brought me to the phone and 815 00:46:25,910 --> 00:46:28,550 he said one of his kids had been in a car accident. 816 00:46:28,870 --> 00:46:32,990 It wasn't serious, but he had to go pick his kid up and sorry, 817 00:46:32,990 --> 00:46:35,710 couldn't come And he said I'll call you back, I'll call you 818 00:46:35,710 --> 00:46:38,790 later. And the ball got dropped because 819 00:46:38,790 --> 00:46:42,990 I felt like I shouldn't really pester him. 820 00:46:42,990 --> 00:46:47,110 I didn't know how true you know, that's a stupid to lie about, 821 00:46:47,110 --> 00:46:50,950 but still. Right now I knew that if they 822 00:46:50,950 --> 00:46:53,670 didn't know about me that that's a risk. 823 00:46:54,070 --> 00:46:57,510 I thought he'll call, he'll call and you know, and just time went 824 00:46:57,510 --> 00:47:02,150 by and he never called and. I want to intrude. 825 00:47:02,310 --> 00:47:05,270 I figured it just wasn't right to intrude. 826 00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:09,430 He's got all the information. We're listed in the phone book. 827 00:47:09,630 --> 00:47:13,630 We are the most findable people in the world, and especially now 828 00:47:13,630 --> 00:47:17,430 with social media. But you know, we I always kind 829 00:47:17,430 --> 00:47:21,590 of made myself findable for that reason, because you just never 830 00:47:21,590 --> 00:47:26,270 know who might turn up. So did you guys never, never 831 00:47:26,270 --> 00:47:27,430 meet? We did. 832 00:47:27,430 --> 00:47:31,870 We did in 2002. I'd taken my mother and my 833 00:47:31,870 --> 00:47:35,430 daughters and we went to see the Mama Mia play downtown. 834 00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:39,670 And I don't know if you've seen it or seen the movie, but it's a 835 00:47:39,790 --> 00:47:45,370 birth father story. Who knew right in there thinking 836 00:47:45,370 --> 00:47:48,050 it's just going to be a bunch of fun ABBA music and we're all 837 00:47:48,050 --> 00:47:52,810 going to go in dancing Queen, you know, and everything. 838 00:47:52,810 --> 00:47:55,370 And we, I don't think the movie had come out yet. 839 00:47:55,370 --> 00:47:58,770 Just the play was going around. So, you know, we just went to 840 00:47:58,770 --> 00:48:01,090 that. It was Mother's Day weekend and 841 00:48:01,090 --> 00:48:03,730 it was the Mother's Day present. And so we made a girls night, 842 00:48:03,850 --> 00:48:04,930 went out to dinner with the play. 843 00:48:04,930 --> 00:48:08,340 I'm sitting there in the play going, Oh my God, it's birth 844 00:48:08,340 --> 00:48:11,380 father story. The bride is getting married and 845 00:48:11,500 --> 00:48:15,740 she's not sure which of three guys is her biological father. 846 00:48:16,100 --> 00:48:17,900 Oh my gosh. Right with her. 847 00:48:18,660 --> 00:48:21,740 And that's, yeah, that's sort of the premise and then you find 848 00:48:21,740 --> 00:48:23,980 out, but I won't spoil that, but. 849 00:48:24,540 --> 00:48:28,020 Now I have to watch it. So I come home that night and 850 00:48:28,020 --> 00:48:32,420 there's a message on the answering machine and the last 851 00:48:32,420 --> 00:48:38,770 name, and it's his daughter who I knew about because I had 852 00:48:38,770 --> 00:48:40,770 researched and found public records. 853 00:48:40,970 --> 00:48:43,690 You had four kids, so I knew I had four more siblings on that 854 00:48:43,690 --> 00:48:47,930 side of the. But I couldn't approach them 855 00:48:48,290 --> 00:48:50,530 being a secret. I just felt that wasn't the 856 00:48:50,530 --> 00:48:53,250 right way to do it. People will do that, especially 857 00:48:53,250 --> 00:48:55,330 today. You see them on social media. 858 00:48:55,650 --> 00:48:58,890 It's so it's so tempting, you know, you see and things like 859 00:48:58,890 --> 00:49:00,690 that. But I felt like I couldn't 860 00:49:00,690 --> 00:49:03,890 approach them because that would ruin everything. 861 00:49:04,170 --> 00:49:07,910 It would just ruin all my chances, you know, their people 862 00:49:07,910 --> 00:49:11,510 off and it was probably the right thing to do, although it 863 00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:14,150 was a hell of a wait. I bet. 864 00:49:14,150 --> 00:49:16,310 So how many years had gone by at that point? 865 00:49:16,390 --> 00:49:19,950 So yeah, like what, 15 years or something had gone by? 866 00:49:20,710 --> 00:49:23,190 I'll call you. And then 15, yeah. 867 00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:27,390 And we had always speculated, well, we'll get a phone call 868 00:49:27,390 --> 00:49:31,270 when he dies because he kept the papers I sent or something, 869 00:49:31,270 --> 00:49:33,030 stuffed him in a software or whatever. 870 00:49:33,310 --> 00:49:35,960 You know, somebody will find him when they have to clean out his 871 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:37,760 stuff. What did she call for? 872 00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,560 He came clean. She had. 873 00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,600 She and her husband had gone to a family funeral on her 874 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,640 husband's side of the family. They left their son with my 875 00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,640 birth father and his wife's, the grandparents to be babysat while 876 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:53,800 they went to this thing. They come back. 877 00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,080 She was like mom and dad. You're not going to guess what 878 00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:57,840 happens. It's the craziest funeral I've 879 00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,680 ever been to. His cousin came out of the 880 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,440 woodwork and nobody knows who he is, and he's claiming he's 881 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,640 related and people were just freaking out. 882 00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,480 And that's when, apparently, over time, he had told his wife, 883 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,920 but he told his wife. Don't tell the kids, though. 884 00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,720 She then knew about me, but she turned to him and kind of went 885 00:50:19,720 --> 00:50:22,120 you. I've kept your secret long 886 00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:27,240 enough, you need to fess up. Yeah, and then he did. 887 00:50:28,020 --> 00:50:30,260 Oh wow. So how'd the sister feel about 888 00:50:30,660 --> 00:50:32,300 him not saying anything all that time? 889 00:50:32,900 --> 00:50:36,260 She was like, well, that sucks, but you know, we got now. 890 00:50:36,620 --> 00:50:38,380 And that's, that's what you have to. 891 00:50:38,980 --> 00:50:40,340 That's the way you have to look at it. 892 00:50:40,340 --> 00:50:42,940 You know, can't get back that lost time. 893 00:50:43,300 --> 00:50:45,420 It's no fault. After a certain point of time, 894 00:50:45,420 --> 00:50:47,740 you can't blame anybody. It's just is what it is. 895 00:50:48,340 --> 00:50:51,420 But you know, we got now and it's not like we're 80 years old 896 00:50:51,420 --> 00:50:55,020 and can't do anything. So, you know, let's just live 897 00:50:55,020 --> 00:50:57,920 life going forward. So she had no problem at all. 898 00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,320 And she was like, hey, dad, didn't know you were so cool 899 00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,720 back in the day. Everybody's doing it, you know, 900 00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:09,080 Mom was on television and all these things, you know, So it 901 00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,800 was more normalized and more expected. 902 00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,520 And my siblings thought nothing of it. 903 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:18,400 It's just like everybody knows somebody from school that had a 904 00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:23,720 baby, or everybody knows somebody now, but not back in 905 00:51:23,720 --> 00:51:28,050 the 50s and early 60s. That was still like a sin. 906 00:51:28,450 --> 00:51:31,970 Yeah, so did you meet all your siblings, then your relationship 907 00:51:32,050 --> 00:51:34,730 with them again? We waited till school was out 908 00:51:34,730 --> 00:51:37,490 because it was May and Mother's Day. 909 00:51:37,730 --> 00:51:41,450 My kid was in a soccer tournament and we had we had all 910 00:51:41,450 --> 00:51:45,370 this stuff going on and it's just like we can't get together 911 00:51:45,370 --> 00:51:48,290 and do anything without high distractibility. 912 00:51:48,290 --> 00:51:51,010 We can't have conversations yet. We're just, we got to get to the 913 00:51:51,010 --> 00:51:54,090 end of the school year and then once all that settles down, 914 00:51:54,090 --> 00:51:55,850 yeah, at first week out of school, man. 915 00:51:55,850 --> 00:51:58,050 Yeah, let's do this. So we did. 916 00:51:58,210 --> 00:52:01,410 I went over to their house and again, 20 minutes from my house, 917 00:52:01,410 --> 00:52:04,530 that's all. And we growing up in the same 918 00:52:04,530 --> 00:52:09,170 town, doing the same things and a lot of the same places all 919 00:52:09,170 --> 00:52:12,730 this time, you know, you could talk about where a certain 920 00:52:12,730 --> 00:52:15,730 restaurant was or where the mall was, and we all knew what we 921 00:52:15,730 --> 00:52:17,930 were talking about. So that was kind of cool. 922 00:52:18,090 --> 00:52:20,110 Did you ever growing up? Because you're adopted. 923 00:52:20,110 --> 00:52:22,870 Because I always thought, what if I'm related to this person 924 00:52:22,870 --> 00:52:26,430 that I'm dating? I mean, that's totally could 925 00:52:26,590 --> 00:52:29,910 have happened to you. I think that, yeah, it literally 926 00:52:29,910 --> 00:52:34,340 could have, you know, I think that was one of the things that 927 00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:39,620 that scared me off of guys some because, yeah, I'm related. 928 00:52:39,780 --> 00:52:43,020 You know, what are the odds? Cincinnati's not small and it's 929 00:52:43,020 --> 00:52:45,940 even bigger than it ever was. But if you live in the same 930 00:52:45,940 --> 00:52:48,900 places and you do the same things and you go to the same 931 00:52:49,060 --> 00:52:55,500 places all the time and it's a possibility, yeah, it's 932 00:52:55,500 --> 00:52:57,260 possible. You know, it could have been 933 00:52:57,260 --> 00:53:00,510 summer camp. It could have been one girl from 934 00:53:00,510 --> 00:53:04,910 their neighborhood who went to the same summer camp as me, and 935 00:53:05,070 --> 00:53:07,830 that was as close as it got in that way. 936 00:53:08,110 --> 00:53:11,150 But yeah, the first things my birth father said that first 937 00:53:11,150 --> 00:53:13,590 night when we met at the Denny's, he looked at me and 938 00:53:13,590 --> 00:53:15,030 said, I've seen you somewhere before. 939 00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:20,150 And I said, well, it could have been a restaurant, It could have 940 00:53:20,150 --> 00:53:22,110 been Kings Island. It could have been a movie 941 00:53:22,110 --> 00:53:23,430 theater. It could have been a mall. 942 00:53:23,430 --> 00:53:26,310 It could have been anywhere, anywhere. 943 00:53:26,470 --> 00:53:30,280 Grocery store. Yeah, yeah. 944 00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:33,400 Or he was seeing resemblance one or the other. 945 00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:37,240 Yeah, so you've written a couple books. 946 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,600 You want to tell us about those? And then you have one in the 947 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,640 works too. So yeah, OK, the the first one I 948 00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,600 wrote was akin to the truth. And I have to credit my husband 949 00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:47,280 with the title. He thought that up. 950 00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:51,800 That's cool and everything. So yeah, so this is about 951 00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,200 growing up adopted and what that felt like. 952 00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:58,360 It's kind of like being the only adopted kid in the world as far 953 00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,600 as I know, you know, and what it was like at the time growing up 954 00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:07,240 in the Sixties, 70s and 80s. And I have to kind of semi 955 00:54:07,240 --> 00:54:10,120 credit my mom. She took the photo and then we 956 00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,480 took it to a cover designer and they of course enhanced it. 957 00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:16,720 And they actually reversed it and flipped it this way just 958 00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:20,560 because it worked better. And but that's where that came 959 00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,390 from. And so, yeah, this one's about 960 00:54:23,390 --> 00:54:26,630 growing up, adopted and into adulthood. 961 00:54:26,950 --> 00:54:31,110 It kind of cuts off with a small cliffhanger, but kind of had to 962 00:54:31,430 --> 00:54:33,710 call time and end the the story at some point. 963 00:54:33,990 --> 00:54:36,590 You know, I'm not writing War and Peace or anything like that. 964 00:54:37,590 --> 00:54:43,830 And then this is the sequel to it, and it explains more about 965 00:54:43,830 --> 00:54:48,030 adult life as an adopted person, how it affects my job, how it's 966 00:54:48,030 --> 00:54:53,000 affected home life, parenting my kids, the reunion. 967 00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,760 What life and reunion is like, what Even friendships, you know, 968 00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,280 how it how it's affected everything people have told, 969 00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,920 people have not told. Now I tell those are the two 970 00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:09,120 books, The Two Siblings here, and then My Work in Progress, 971 00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,120 which at this point the working title is Born, Adopted and 972 00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,840 Finding My Truth. It's a more reader friendly, 973 00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:21,000 young adult friendly book aimed more at like say 12 year olds on 974 00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:24,120 up that they just aren't going to be up for reading. 975 00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:28,840 You know, big long pros that looks like that they're going to 976 00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:33,720 read something a little lighter but still gets the message out. 977 00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:38,160 And I'm a big believer in we do a lot of talking amongst 978 00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,520 ourselves and educating ourselves, which we need to keep 979 00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:44,560 doing because just when you think you know everything, 980 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,680 there's something you don't learn because there is. 981 00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:50,420 That's the way it is, way there, every subject and but adoptions. 982 00:55:50,900 --> 00:55:53,460 Part of that. It is a real challenge and very 983 00:55:53,460 --> 00:55:58,180 frustrating to try to educate, say the generation ahead of us, 984 00:55:58,180 --> 00:56:02,740 whoever's left and even people just slightly older than we are 985 00:56:02,740 --> 00:56:05,620 that still grew up with different values or just have a 986 00:56:05,620 --> 00:56:09,620 different thinking about the narratives of things and 987 00:56:09,820 --> 00:56:14,110 educating the kids, bringing them into the situation. 988 00:56:14,110 --> 00:56:18,030 And it's a little different today because adoptions are more 989 00:56:18,030 --> 00:56:22,750 open, it's more normalized or mainstream than it used to be. 990 00:56:23,630 --> 00:56:27,550 Many blended families and so many kids that they don't live 991 00:56:27,550 --> 00:56:30,790 with the mom and the dad, they live with grandparents or they. 992 00:56:30,870 --> 00:56:33,310 It's kinship that I had a kid for a while. 993 00:56:33,310 --> 00:56:36,230 That he was adopted by his grandparents because the mom 994 00:56:36,230 --> 00:56:38,230 couldn't take care of her kid. And. 995 00:56:38,270 --> 00:56:40,190 But he was not estranged from his mother. 996 00:56:40,660 --> 00:56:41,940 Yeah. And they actually stayed 997 00:56:41,940 --> 00:56:44,260 together. And, you know, now everybody's 998 00:56:44,260 --> 00:56:45,780 adults and it doesn't matter anymore. 999 00:56:45,820 --> 00:56:49,300 But yeah, things like that that go on, that used to never go on 1000 00:56:49,300 --> 00:56:51,020 at all. This is where it's come from and 1001 00:56:51,020 --> 00:56:53,900 here's where we are now. So that's why I thought, OK, 1002 00:56:53,980 --> 00:56:56,740 yeah, this I'm in education. Let's educate. 1003 00:56:57,660 --> 00:57:00,740 Great, I love it. And you also have a blog too, So 1004 00:57:00,820 --> 00:57:03,260 tell us how we find you and all your books and stuff. 1005 00:57:03,260 --> 00:57:05,300 We'll have the links in the show notes, yeah. 1006 00:57:05,820 --> 00:57:08,900 But I have a WordPress blog. It's called Akin to the Truth. 1007 00:57:09,100 --> 00:57:13,980 And I do a lot of book play, movie reviews that are adoption 1008 00:57:13,980 --> 00:57:17,980 themed that are there. Currently I'm reading one that 1009 00:57:17,980 --> 00:57:21,100 is, in theory not about adoption, but I'm waiting. 1010 00:57:21,540 --> 00:57:23,780 I'm waiting for the missing relative to turn up because. 1011 00:57:24,500 --> 00:57:28,550 They always do, yeah. Well, I really enjoyed the 1012 00:57:28,550 --> 00:57:31,830 conversation today. Page, thanks for just being open 1013 00:57:31,830 --> 00:57:34,950 and telling your story and helping educate the world about 1014 00:57:34,950 --> 00:57:37,070 adoption. And we'll have all your links in 1015 00:57:37,070 --> 00:57:39,830 the show, notes how to find you and the links to your books and 1016 00:57:40,350 --> 00:57:42,590 all those things. So thanks for coming on today. 1017 00:57:42,750 --> 00:57:46,990 Thanks, Melissa. It just amazes me how each 1018 00:57:46,990 --> 00:57:52,110 adoptee story is different, but in every story I can find 1019 00:57:52,110 --> 00:57:57,000 similarities as well. And I have to say, on this 100th 1020 00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:00,840 episode of Mind Your Own Karma, the adoption chronicles how 1021 00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:06,160 honored I feel for every person that has come on this podcast 1022 00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:11,160 and told their story. I am just so honored to hear 1023 00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:15,600 their stories, to be the one interviewing them and being the 1024 00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:21,000 1:00 to bring their story to the world to help educate and 1025 00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,220 validate. Other adoptees and others in the 1026 00:58:24,220 --> 00:58:26,900 constellation. So if you are one of those that 1027 00:58:26,900 --> 00:58:31,540 have been brave enough to come on and tell your story on this 1028 00:58:31,540 --> 00:58:35,900 podcast, I thank you from the bottom of my heart and I 1029 00:58:35,900 --> 00:58:38,900 consider each and every one of you a friend. 1030 00:58:39,860 --> 00:58:46,660 I have poured my heart and soul and countless hours into making 1031 00:58:46,660 --> 00:58:50,580 this podcast a reality. But if I have helped. 1032 00:58:51,110 --> 00:58:57,270 One adoptee not feel so alone. It was all worth it. 1033 00:58:57,830 --> 00:59:02,750 And if this podcast has touched you in any way, I would ask that 1034 00:59:02,750 --> 00:59:06,230 you go on your listening platform and rate and review the 1035 00:59:06,230 --> 00:59:10,910 podcast. That could be your gift to me 1036 00:59:10,910 --> 00:59:15,350 and this podcast on our 100th episode celebration. 1037 00:59:15,970 --> 00:59:18,010 It's free. It takes one minute of your 1038 00:59:18,010 --> 00:59:22,010 time, and it really does help get the word out about this 1039 00:59:22,010 --> 00:59:24,690 podcast. Thanks for listening today. 1040 00:59:25,010 --> 00:59:28,770 And as always, take what you need and leave what you don't 1041 00:59:29,930 --> 00:59:36,170 and cheers to 100 episodes. Oh yes, and always remember to 1042 00:59:36,170 --> 00:59:38,930 mind your own karma. I'll see you next time.