1
00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:01,200
Hey there. 
It's Melissa. 

2
00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:04,700
Brunetti and welcome to the mind
your own Karma podcast. 

3
00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,600
He's our camera crew, thanks for
joining me, on another episode 

4
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,300
of mind, your own Karma. 
The adoption Chronicles. 

5
00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:27,100
Today, I have an adoptee story, 
in fact, a very personal adoptee

6
00:00:27,100 --> 00:00:29,600
story. 
Amy Hansen is on the show today.

7
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,700
Let me tell you a little bit 
more about Amy. 

8
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,300
Amy is a domestic adoptee born 
in 1969. 

9
00:00:37,700 --> 00:00:41,400
She was placed for adoption at 
Birth, she grew up in a loving 

10
00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,900
family and Was well cared for 
she was the happiest adoptee so 

11
00:00:45,900 --> 00:00:49,400
grateful to her birth parents 
for her adopted parents, and 

12
00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,900
always trying to make everyone 
else happy. 

13
00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,700
She was reunited with some of 
her birth family over the past 

14
00:00:55,700 --> 00:00:58,100
five years. 
And recently came out of the 

15
00:00:58,100 --> 00:01:02,400
fog, she's beginning to realize 
she was living behind the 

16
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,700
disguise of a happy positive 
person who didn't know the loss 

17
00:01:06,700 --> 00:01:11,500
and grief, she was carrying 
today, Amy feels sad, confused 

18
00:01:11,500 --> 00:01:13,900
and angry. 
Her adoption and feels that 

19
00:01:13,900 --> 00:01:15,700
sharing her story. 
Is being honest. 

20
00:01:15,700 --> 00:01:20,000
For the first time in her life 
Amy has been married to a 

21
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,400
wonderfully supportive husband 
for 30 years and they have three

22
00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:28,800
Amazing adult children and two 
golden retrievers here is Amy 

23
00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:33,700
Hansen's adoption story. 
So we are welcoming 80 Hanson to

24
00:01:33,700 --> 00:01:35,300
mind your own Karma today. 
Hi Amy. 

25
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,600
Hi Melissa. 
Thanks for having me. 

26
00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:39,100
Yeah. 
How are you doing today? 

27
00:01:39,700 --> 00:01:42,600
Doing good. 
Nice and sunny day, so I'll take

28
00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:44,900
the sunshine, right? 
Yeah. 

29
00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,900
So let's just jump in. 
I just want to hear talk about 

30
00:01:48,900 --> 00:01:50,200
your adoption story. 
What happened? 

31
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,200
What do you know about why you 
were adopted? 

32
00:01:52,700 --> 00:01:56,500
Sure. 
So, I was placed for adoption at

33
00:01:56,500 --> 00:01:59,300
Birth, pretty much with. 
I think the understanding that I

34
00:01:59,300 --> 00:02:02,700
was always going to be placed 
for adoption my My birth mom was

35
00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:08,500
in college, so was my birth 
father, they had dated and we're

36
00:02:08,500 --> 00:02:11,200
not ready to settle down and get
married. 

37
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,900
So I think once the cat got out 
of the bag, you know, there was 

38
00:02:14,900 --> 00:02:18,800
no other choice for her. 
Her parents pretty much said 

39
00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,500
you're going to place this baby 
and your move on and forget 

40
00:02:21,500 --> 00:02:23,100
about it. 
So, you're born in baby. 

41
00:02:23,100 --> 00:02:25,900
Scoop are all right. 
Yeah, 1969. 

42
00:02:25,900 --> 00:02:28,100
Yeah. 
So, you know, in my whole life 

43
00:02:28,100 --> 00:02:30,700
thinking about that and 
understanding what these women 

44
00:02:30,700 --> 00:02:32,500
went through. 
Out support. 

45
00:02:32,500 --> 00:02:35,300
And she was an only child too, 
so she really didn't have 

46
00:02:35,300 --> 00:02:37,600
siblings that she could have 
leaned on. 

47
00:02:37,900 --> 00:02:41,300
And she hid her pregnancy from 
her parents until I think she 

48
00:02:41,300 --> 00:02:45,000
said about six months. 
Wow, so she really kind of just 

49
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,800
took that on all herself and 
then was like, okay, you're 

50
00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,900
going to yeah, have this baby 
and move on. 

51
00:02:51,900 --> 00:02:54,200
She had already kind of made up 
her mind though, before that. 

52
00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:55,800
But that was what she was going 
to do. 

53
00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:00,000
Or I think she knew that was 
probably her only choice my 

54
00:03:00,100 --> 00:03:02,600
birth. 
Father is Also an adoptee. 

55
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,800
So I haven't had deep 
conversations about this, you 

56
00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,200
know, I don't know if maybe he 
said yeah. 

57
00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:08,700
That's just what we're going to 
have to do. 

58
00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,900
Yeah, I know. 
She said she enjoyed being 

59
00:03:10,900 --> 00:03:14,200
pregnant with me but she just 
didn't have a choice. 

60
00:03:14,700 --> 00:03:16,800
Yeah. 
So, did you go to foster care at

61
00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,100
all in between? 
So it's funny. 

62
00:03:19,100 --> 00:03:22,600
I know I was at the hospital for
about eight days after I was 

63
00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:27,600
born and I never knew, I went to
foster care until I was able to 

64
00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,700
get my adoption file. 
And when I got my adoption, I 

65
00:03:31,700 --> 00:03:35,200
found out I was in foster care 
for another eight days so that 

66
00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,600
was something that I had never 
known before. 

67
00:03:38,100 --> 00:03:41,200
That kind of hits, you hard, you
know, when you think about it, I

68
00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,900
don't know where I was. 
I don't know who took care of 

69
00:03:43,900 --> 00:03:46,200
me, so that's something I deal 
with now. 

70
00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,400
And I think other adoptees 
understand that the people who 

71
00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,400
aren't adopted, like, even My 
adoptive mom. 

72
00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,300
I said to her. 
I was like, I was in foster 

73
00:03:54,300 --> 00:03:55,700
care. 
She's like, no, you weren't. 

74
00:03:55,700 --> 00:03:58,700
Wow. 
Like, but I was, I mean, and 

75
00:03:58,700 --> 00:04:01,600
maybe she didn't know, like, I 
don't know what was told to To 

76
00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,100
her or not. 
But that was in my file. 

77
00:04:04,300 --> 00:04:07,200
The day I was dropped off at 
this address and then the day I 

78
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:11,000
was given to my adopted family 
so they gave you the address of 

79
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,600
your Foster. 
Yeah, there's an address in 

80
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,100
there and a name and everything.
Really, I've tried to because I 

81
00:04:18,100 --> 00:04:21,100
think it would be kind of neat 
to just reach out and buying, 

82
00:04:21,100 --> 00:04:23,100
but I haven't had any success 
with it. 

83
00:04:23,300 --> 00:04:25,900
So love to know who had. 
I mean, because that's just a 

84
00:04:25,900 --> 00:04:28,300
big especially, I don't know for
me. 

85
00:04:28,300 --> 00:04:31,200
It's a big deal because I was 
there were probably two and a 

86
00:04:31,207 --> 00:04:32,100
half. 
Months. 

87
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,400
Yeah, my birth mother didn't 
sign papers till I was like two 

88
00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:36,700
months old. 
Okay. 

89
00:04:36,900 --> 00:04:41,000
And so, I just wonder like, 
because, you know, I had my 

90
00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,200
original name, which was 
Jennifer, okay. 

91
00:04:44,500 --> 00:04:47,500
And so did they call me 
Jennifer, they call me something

92
00:04:47,500 --> 00:04:49,600
else. 
Do they make up a name for me? 

93
00:04:49,700 --> 00:04:52,800
Who took care of me? 
Like, that's a big deal. 

94
00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,800
I was a little baby. 
You know, helpless baby. 

95
00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,000
Who had me? 
I've no clue. 

96
00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,600
No idea. 
Have you tried to look into that

97
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,900
Know What state were? 
Were you born in Indiana? 

98
00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:06,100
So they just open their records 
about five years ago. 

99
00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,700
Yeah, see, California. 
They're still okay closed. 

100
00:05:10,700 --> 00:05:14,700
So there's yeah, still not given
us any information. 

101
00:05:16,100 --> 00:05:18,900
So how was your experience 
growing up in your adoptive 

102
00:05:18,900 --> 00:05:22,600
family. 
So I consider myself a loved 

103
00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,300
adoptee, I feel like my parents 
gave me the best that they could

104
00:05:26,500 --> 00:05:29,600
given the circumstances. 
I have an older brother who's 

105
00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:30,900
also adopted. 
Okay. 

106
00:05:30,900 --> 00:05:35,000
We're not Directly related, he 
struggled more, keep us, I 

107
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,700
guess, you know, as we put these
out there, right? 

108
00:05:36,700 --> 00:05:39,300
He was the one who kind of 
rebelled and yeah. 

109
00:05:39,300 --> 00:05:42,900
Cause the havoc in my household 
and I was the one who was like, 

110
00:05:43,100 --> 00:05:45,800
oh, I've got to be like, what do
you need? 

111
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,000
Look at me, I'm so good. 
I'm going to make everyone happy

112
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,500
and not cause any problems. 
All right, so, but, you know, 

113
00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:57,200
typical childhood, I felt like 
my parents did go on to have a 

114
00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,900
child of their own. 
So I have a younger sister eight

115
00:06:00,900 --> 00:06:03,400
and a half years, Younger than 
me, and we have a really good 

116
00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,500
relationship. 
Did they need? 

117
00:06:05,500 --> 00:06:08,700
They couldn't have any kids 
that, you know, it's so funny. 

118
00:06:08,700 --> 00:06:12,100
Because as these things have 
come up, that I've been thinking

119
00:06:12,100 --> 00:06:15,000
about. 
I've asked my mom and I've said,

120
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,300
well, why did you adopt me or 
whatever? 

121
00:06:17,300 --> 00:06:19,300
And she's like, well, it didn't 
matter how our family came 

122
00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:22,100
together, you know? 
So she really isn't giving me 

123
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,800
much answers. 
So, yeah. 

124
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,500
And I haven't pressed the issue 
just because it's frustrating to

125
00:06:28,500 --> 00:06:33,500
me. 
So, Your adoptive brother, did 

126
00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:39,100
he search for his family or ET 
did after I did? 

127
00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,900
So it was very interesting. 
He never really thought he was 

128
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,700
that interested in it and I 
guess he had struggled with some

129
00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:53,400
alcoholism and drug abuse and my
parents thought that somewhere 

130
00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:56,400
in his adoption records. 
I don't know what they had that 

131
00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,400
his birth mom had also had some 
issues with that. 

132
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,900
So I think they had tried to 
reach and find her just to kind 

133
00:07:04,900 --> 00:07:07,600
of know, family history. 
But they were never successful, 

134
00:07:07,700 --> 00:07:10,900
so he never pursued it. 
Then when I did he thought it 

135
00:07:10,900 --> 00:07:14,700
was really cool because I did 
find out and meet biological 

136
00:07:14,700 --> 00:07:19,200
family and so I bought him a DNA
kit because I said, you know 

137
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,100
what for your birthday? 
Let me get you one if you're 

138
00:07:21,100 --> 00:07:22,500
interested. 
Fine. 

139
00:07:22,500 --> 00:07:27,000
Yeah and so he wound up doing it
and he did also find his birth 

140
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,300
family, it was amazing for him 
to to get that done. 

141
00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,400
So yeah, so did you guys always 
know growing up that you were 

142
00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,500
adopted? 
Do you remember being told or 

143
00:07:37,500 --> 00:07:39,900
not? 
Know, I always knew we always 

144
00:07:39,900 --> 00:07:43,100
knew and I even had this 
conversation with him recently. 

145
00:07:43,300 --> 00:07:46,800
We don't talk a lot, we're not 
really that close, but when 

146
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,000
these things have come up, and 
I've had questions, like, he has

147
00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,400
a memory that I feel like he can
remember back to when he was 

148
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,100
like, four years old side, like,
Hey, do you remember when we 

149
00:07:56,100 --> 00:07:59,400
were told, or you were told and 
he said, he never remembers a 

150
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,500
sit-down either, but we always 
just Just knew we were adopted. 

151
00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,200
Yeah, that's how I was to my mom
made a book little shit. 

152
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,000
Make it up. 
It was a story about how they, 

153
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,400
you know, got me and she said, 
I'd just be changing your diaper

154
00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:13,800
and I just tell the story, you 
know. 

155
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,100
And so I always knew like I 
don't ever remember being told. 

156
00:08:17,300 --> 00:08:20,300
I think that's the way it should
be and I think that's great. 

157
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,500
Even at six years old, if you're
sat down and told I, you know, I

158
00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:27,500
done a lot of interviews and 
people are just like that sticks

159
00:08:27,500 --> 00:08:30,000
with you, right? 
And your mind it's like wait, 

160
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,300
what? 
You're not my mom. 

161
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,700
Didn't you know, right? 
Yeah. 

162
00:08:34,700 --> 00:08:38,200
I don't, I don't agree with that
now, either do I. 

163
00:08:38,299 --> 00:08:42,200
So do you have any feelings? 
Surrounded being adopted when 

164
00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,700
you were little? 
And then, you know, even now. 

165
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,800
So when I was younger, I really 
did. 

166
00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,300
I mean, just like a think, a lot
of us are told were special, 

167
00:08:51,300 --> 00:08:53,600
we're lucky and I believed all 
that, right? 

168
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,700
And so the story to of my 
parents were young and they 

169
00:08:57,300 --> 00:08:59,900
didn't have jobs, they were in 
college, they couldn't take care

170
00:08:59,900 --> 00:09:03,300
of me, I believed all that. 
That and, you know, kind of 

171
00:09:03,300 --> 00:09:05,800
understood, I guess as much as I
could. 

172
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,000
So, I have very close friends, 
family members. 

173
00:09:09,100 --> 00:09:13,000
My husband, who, when I did 
decide to kind of search and 

174
00:09:13,300 --> 00:09:15,100
look, they were like, really 
you're doing that. 

175
00:09:15,100 --> 00:09:18,600
We thought you never cared, but 
looking back. 

176
00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,600
I feel like, I probably always, 
I mean, I always wondered I 

177
00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,700
always wondered my birthday 
Mother's Day. 

178
00:09:25,100 --> 00:09:28,700
You know, who do I look like, is
my mom thinking about me that 

179
00:09:28,700 --> 00:09:31,300
kind of stuff? 
I did not mirror. 

180
00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:36,200
Parents, blond hair, blue eyes. 
They were dark hair, dark or 

181
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,800
hazel eyes. 
Pretty dark complexion. 

182
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,400
So, I didn't fit in with the 
mirroring of my family. 

183
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,400
So I did always feel out of, I 
won't say how to place, but, you

184
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,800
know, one, family gatherings 
when they would be like, oh, 

185
00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,100
look, your cousin has that of 
her aunt, you know, and I would 

186
00:09:52,100 --> 00:09:55,200
always look at their faces and 
just any parts of them and be 

187
00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,500
like, oh my gosh, you have a 
freckle here. 

188
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,300
I have a freckle here. 
Like, she's just trying to buy 

189
00:10:00,300 --> 00:10:01,200
like that. 
Yeah. 

190
00:10:01,300 --> 00:10:07,700
Yeah, just to kind of feel like 
I belonged more so I don't feel 

191
00:10:07,700 --> 00:10:10,100
like I had a problem. 
If anyone would have asked me 

192
00:10:10,100 --> 00:10:14,400
and I do have close family 
members, who did adopt and had 

193
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,600
asked me prior to adopting, just
how I felt about it. 

194
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,800
And this is many years ago 
because their children are 

195
00:10:19,900 --> 00:10:23,800
adults now. 
Young adults and I said it was 

196
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,900
great, like, oh my gosh, they're
going to be so lucky to be with 

197
00:10:26,900 --> 00:10:29,300
us, you know? 
I was saying those things. 

198
00:10:29,300 --> 00:10:34,700
Yeah and things have Changed 
since I have, you know I don't 

199
00:10:34,700 --> 00:10:37,700
know what what it is if it's 
because of the age. 

200
00:10:37,700 --> 00:10:41,700
We are that you can start 
putting words to maybe thoughts 

201
00:10:41,700 --> 00:10:44,500
and feelings, you've had. 
I don't know you know, I'm still

202
00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:47,100
trying to work through that like
why does this all come out now? 

203
00:10:47,500 --> 00:10:53,300
Yeah, so when I did start 
struggling this family member 

204
00:10:53,300 --> 00:10:57,000
was like but you told us so many
years ago and I was like, well 

205
00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,600
things change. 
Yeah, I think you're not given 

206
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,700
permission. 
And to, you know, have the 

207
00:11:03,700 --> 00:11:07,000
feelings because of what we are 
told and what they were told to 

208
00:11:07,008 --> 00:11:09,700
tell us, you know. 
And then when you're older you 

209
00:11:09,700 --> 00:11:13,300
kind of get to that point where 
you're like you're starting to 

210
00:11:13,308 --> 00:11:18,400
stand on your own two feet and 
not conform as much and then all

211
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,400
these things start coming out 
and then you can look at them 

212
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,200
differently growing up. 
We just have like these blinders

213
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,200
on. 
You don't want to think that 

214
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,600
you're not a part, right? 
But you don't belong and all 

215
00:11:29,608 --> 00:11:31,700
that stuff. 
So No. 

216
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,700
But yeah, as you get older, you 
definitely start kind of coming 

217
00:11:34,700 --> 00:11:36,900
into your own and being like, 
oh, wait a minute here. 

218
00:11:38,100 --> 00:11:41,200
Exactly. 
And I think two, more of a came,

219
00:11:41,300 --> 00:11:46,400
I've been in reunions with my 
birth mom and three sisters that

220
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:51,000
I have through her half sisters,
and I met my biological father 

221
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,200
once, and we really don't 
communicate because of him now. 

222
00:11:55,300 --> 00:11:58,400
But I think, once I started 
building a relationship with 

223
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,500
biological family and getting to
know, Them is when I kind of 

224
00:12:02,500 --> 00:12:06,700
came out of the fog, because I 
could see similarities, you 

225
00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:11,300
know, in our features, and some 
just commonalities that I had 

226
00:12:11,300 --> 00:12:14,900
with them, that I didn't have 
with my adopted family and then 

227
00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:17,600
it became like almost in the 
middle. 

228
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,000
Like I was in this place by 
myself. 

229
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,200
Where, here's my adopted family 
that I was like, I grew up with 

230
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,600
them. 
I know they loved me, but I 

231
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,900
don't connect. 
I don't see any genetic 

232
00:12:28,900 --> 00:12:30,200
mirroring with them. 
Right. 

233
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,500
And then you have your bio 
Chuckle family, that you've now,

234
00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:35,300
mad that you want a deep 
connection with that, you want a

235
00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:38,300
bond and they can accept you, 
and they can be delightful and 

236
00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:43,100
lovely and carrying and open, 
but you never have what you 

237
00:12:43,100 --> 00:12:44,900
would have had if you grew up 
with them. 

238
00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:50,600
So that I think is, when I 
really noticed what I miss out 

239
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:55,400
on, and it's not so much but you
missed out, but it's also like 

240
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,600
not being able to express 
yourself as an adoptee as a 

241
00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,600
younger person. 
And I think that's where We're 

242
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,100
failing right now. 
Yes. 

243
00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:07,600
Is these secrets when I was told
my parents were poor and young 

244
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,000
and they were in college. 
You're like, oh my gosh, if I 

245
00:13:10,008 --> 00:13:12,000
don't have money, is that going 
to be a bad thing? 

246
00:13:12,100 --> 00:13:15,900
It's so like, there's so many 
things that were told to this 

247
00:13:15,900 --> 00:13:19,900
child to make sense of it all. 
But as you get older and you 

248
00:13:19,908 --> 00:13:21,900
think, oh gosh, they were in 
college and they didn't have 

249
00:13:21,900 --> 00:13:24,500
money and so my dad loses his 
job. 

250
00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:27,500
We have to move, like it's going
to definitely stressful thing 

251
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,600
and it was never talked about 
and I never talked about it 

252
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,900
because you were I don't want to
be sent somewhere else if you 

253
00:13:34,900 --> 00:13:38,200
know, this is going bad. 
Well, back when, you know, we 

254
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:42,000
were born, it was like the 
adoptive parents were told, you 

255
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,600
know, integrate them into your 
family and so you just don't 

256
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,200
talk about it. 
You don't talk about that. 

257
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,100
You were adopted at all in any 
way, but it's the elephant in 

258
00:13:51,100 --> 00:13:54,200
the room especially for the 
adoptee all the time because we 

259
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,700
want to talk about it. 
We do have questions and the 

260
00:13:57,700 --> 00:14:01,100
more you try and force the 
issue. 

261
00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:02,500
Shoe. 
That were a part of you, the 

262
00:14:02,500 --> 00:14:06,400
more we feel different because 
we already feel it and they're 

263
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:07,900
not talking about it isn't going
to help. 

264
00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:11,200
So, you know, I'm hoping the 
narrative is changing with that 

265
00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:13,700
because we're coming out and 
talking about our stories and 

266
00:14:13,700 --> 00:14:17,700
things. 
And I really want to draw in all

267
00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:21,700
the constellation together, 
because even hearing like you 

268
00:14:21,700 --> 00:14:24,800
were saying earlier, the birth 
mothers perspective, I have so 

269
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,600
much more compassion after doing
a couple of birth mother 

270
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,000
interviews, but I'm so glad I 
did and I'm so glad I'm bringing

271
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,300
that. 
You to the table because it is a

272
00:14:33,308 --> 00:14:36,100
part of the story. 
It's a big part of the story, 

273
00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:38,800
right? 
And like you said when that 

274
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,200
separation happens between the 
mother and child even meeting 

275
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,900
later on and having that 
reunions that Bond was severed. 

276
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,400
It doesn't, you can't reconnect 
it, it just doesn't work, it 

277
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:55,400
just doesn't work. 
So with your half-sisters, how 

278
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,700
do you feel about them compared 
to the siblings that you grew up

279
00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:01,100
with? 
Do you still have that? 

280
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:06,400
Bonds, or is it different? 
So I would say with like, with 

281
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,800
my brother, I don't feel like we
ever really bonded, like a 

282
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,300
strong brother sister. 
I mean, we got along, we did our

283
00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:17,700
thing but I don't feel a strong 
connection to him and I think he

284
00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:20,000
feels the same way. 
You know, we see each other 

285
00:15:20,100 --> 00:15:21,900
maybe a couple times a year. 
You know. 

286
00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:25,200
Happy birthday on the birthday 
stuff like that and occasionally

287
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,600
we get together. 
My younger sister, we talk all 

288
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,100
the time so we have a good 
connection. 

289
00:15:31,300 --> 00:15:35,100
And I think maybe because we're 
girls and we're sisters, and I 

290
00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:37,200
went through all the 
experiences, you know, getting 

291
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,900
married having children wait 
before her. 

292
00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:42,700
And then when she had that, you 
know, I was one of her sounding 

293
00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:45,000
boards. 
So we still have a good 

294
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:49,500
relationship my half-sisters you
know, we're trying to establish 

295
00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:52,100
more of a relationship. 
One does live about 45 minutes 

296
00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:54,900
away and we see each other more 
regularly. 

297
00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:58,500
I mean, I've see her more than I
see my brother so I guess that's

298
00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:02,100
that they're very open. 
And Accepting. 

299
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,300
But again, if you're not with 
them constantly, you're not 

300
00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:09,900
going to build that. 
Yeah, relationship of like what 

301
00:16:09,900 --> 00:16:11,700
you consider a sister. 
I mean, I have a high school 

302
00:16:11,700 --> 00:16:15,200
friend that I would consider I'm
closer to than, you know, my 

303
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,100
half-sisters yeah, for sure. 
Yeah. 

304
00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:18,900
I think that's pretty much 
common. 

305
00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:23,000
So, how is it growing up with 
your sister? 

306
00:16:23,100 --> 00:16:26,100
Since she was biological. 
Did you feel any difference and 

307
00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:28,400
with your adoptive parents 
between you and her? 

308
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,300
Really didn't, but then again 
she was the baby, right? 

309
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,700
So, and being so much younger 
than I was, it wasn't like we 

310
00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:39,900
were competing against the same 
type of attention or things like

311
00:16:39,900 --> 00:16:43,400
that. 
So I don't really feel that she 

312
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,700
got anything more. 
I know with my mom's parents and

313
00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:49,400
my grandparents, they really 
took her under their wig. 

314
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,900
She had such a great 
relationship with my grandfather

315
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,500
that I didn't have, but then we 
also didn't live near them when 

316
00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:59,000
I was younger, we moved back 
toward to where my parents 

317
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,700
Family were later so she was 
probably younger and just got 

318
00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:06,000
more time with yeah I'm guessing
yeah my adopted father has 

319
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,700
passed but my adopted mom is 
still alive and my sister and I 

320
00:17:09,708 --> 00:17:12,800
struggle with kind of similar 
things with her, you know. 

321
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,900
Mmm. 
The adoption aspect of it. 

322
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,900
I'm struggling more with her, my
adopted mom now and I think my 

323
00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:25,700
sister and my adopted mom have 
conversations about me, you 

324
00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:28,099
know, just like oh what she's 
going through right now, you 

325
00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:30,000
know, my sister kind of Stands 
up for me. 

326
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,600
So my sister gets a lot of the 
brunt of it if I make my mom 

327
00:17:33,700 --> 00:17:35,800
upset with what I'm going 
through. 

328
00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:37,600
Yeah. 
But you know, my whole life 

329
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,600
growing up, both my parents 
always said, if you want to 

330
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,300
search we would help you. 
Hmm. 

331
00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:48,100
And so I never reached out and 
asked them for help, but when I 

332
00:17:48,100 --> 00:17:52,800
was doing DNA and I was matching
and figuring out all the puzzle 

333
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:58,000
pieces, it became really 
exciting for a moment with my 

334
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,900
mom and then When I did meet my 
biological mother, she didn't 

335
00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:06,600
come obviously, I met with my 
husband and her husband, and my 

336
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,200
sister, and her husband, but I 
called her so excited after we 

337
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:15,600
had met and she got angry with 
me saying she wanted to go and 

338
00:18:15,700 --> 00:18:17,600
yeah, I got that. 
You know, when you get that kind

339
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,800
of a comment and you're like, 
this was my whole world, the 

340
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,100
adoptee who was there to do what
she wanted. 

341
00:18:24,500 --> 00:18:27,600
And now I didn't do what she 
wanted and now, she can't deal 

342
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:28,900
with it. 
Yeah, you know. 

343
00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:32,300
No. 
So there I really struggle right

344
00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:34,600
now. 
Like our relationship is such a 

345
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:35,900
struggle. 
Hmm. 

346
00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:40,500
So ever since then, or ever 
since then yeah you know, and it

347
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:44,400
has to be hard like I understand
it has to be hard but I think I 

348
00:18:44,408 --> 00:18:47,200
mean, I have friends my 
husband's not adopted that I 

349
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,900
talked to about this and they 
can be understanding. 

350
00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:53,800
They can listen to the podcast 
and have questions for me, but 

351
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,100
my mom just is like, oh, you 
still go to therapy. 

352
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,000
Oh, you're not better yet, you 
know. 

353
00:18:59,100 --> 00:19:01,600
Like like I'm just going to be 
fixed. 

354
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,900
And so I said, you know what? 
This has been going on for over 

355
00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:06,000
50 years. 
I think I'm going to be in 

356
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,500
therapy for a while, you know, 
and she doesn't reach out and 

357
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:14,200
say, like, she'll say, oh how 
are you not really a genuine 

358
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,700
like how are things really with 
you? 

359
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,200
How are you feeling? 
Like I don't get any of that. 

360
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,300
So it's so hard because you just
want that for my mom, right? 

361
00:19:23,300 --> 00:19:25,300
I know a lot of times. 
It feels like the adoptive 

362
00:19:25,300 --> 00:19:26,900
parents. 
Like when you going to stop 

363
00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:28,900
talking about this when is this 
going to stop being an ass? 

364
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,300
Issue. 
I think they feel like they did 

365
00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:33,700
everything right. 
What could they have done 

366
00:19:33,700 --> 00:19:36,900
different and they did they did 
everything right? 

367
00:19:36,900 --> 00:19:39,400
Most of them, I can't say 
everybody, but for my 

368
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,300
experience, they did everything 
right. 

369
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,500
But there's nothing that they 
could do to fix that broken 

370
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:49,500
relinquishment bonds. 
There's nothing now. 

371
00:19:49,700 --> 00:19:53,800
So that's going to be there but 
they take that on themselves and

372
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,300
have guilt about, maybe it's 
something they didn't do and 

373
00:19:56,300 --> 00:19:58,500
that's just not even the issue, 
right? 

374
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,600
Right. 
I tried to say that I'm like, 

375
00:20:00,700 --> 00:20:03,400
you gave me a good life. 
I'm not, I'm not replacing you 

376
00:20:03,700 --> 00:20:09,400
but you have to be understanding
about me, learning about my 

377
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:12,300
origin. 
Yeah, and my connections with 

378
00:20:12,300 --> 00:20:14,900
birth relatives like that is 
such an important thing and she 

379
00:20:14,900 --> 00:20:18,300
had such great relationships 
with her aunts and cousins, and 

380
00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:20,600
her brother, you know? 
And I'm just like, don't you see

381
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,100
that? 
Those are things that you got by

382
00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:26,600
being kept in, your family and 
raised by your biological 

383
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,500
family. 
Well, one of the examples I 

384
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:31,500
always say, A is what if, you 
know you were Switched at Birth 

385
00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:34,600
and you took home somebody 
else's baby and you thought that

386
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,400
was your blood relative and then
you found out later that your 

387
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,400
baby is out there somewhere, but
you still not want to know that 

388
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,200
other baby your flesh and blood.
Like I think you would even 

389
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,800
though, you know, I could say 
well you have a baby so it's a 

390
00:20:46,808 --> 00:20:48,300
big deal. 
Why do you have to know that? 

391
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,700
You know, why do you have to 
find your biological? 

392
00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:53,400
It's the same thing. 
Like you just have to you know 

393
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:57,300
something from inside that you 
just have to know for most of us

394
00:20:57,300 --> 00:21:02,800
I say So looking back growing up
even like into your teen years 

395
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,100
and stuff, did you see ways that
adoption played out and maybe 

396
00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:11,400
relationships or anxieties, or 
any kind of tendencies that you 

397
00:21:11,408 --> 00:21:15,600
can look back and see? 
I think and my husband, we were 

398
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,300
just talking about this the 
other day that I was such an 

399
00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:21,800
independent young person, you 
know. 

400
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,100
I got a job as soon as I could 
get a job, I work hard at 

401
00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:27,700
school. 
I took care of things on my own.

402
00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:31,500
I didn't go to my parents and 
say I need help with this. 

403
00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:34,800
And it's funny because I have 
older kids now who are older 

404
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,400
than I was when I did a lot of 
these things on my own and they 

405
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,600
come to me and they ask and I'm 
like, and I have to remember, 

406
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,300
this is normal, they don't need 
to know how to do all these 

407
00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:45,100
things. 
Themselves because there are in 

408
00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:48,900
the secure family knowing that 
we're here for them and we're 

409
00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:51,900
not going anywhere where I think
I felt like I got to do this 

410
00:21:51,900 --> 00:21:53,200
myself so I know what's going 
on. 

411
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:54,400
Yeah. 
You know I'm not going to rely 

412
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:55,600
on. 
Anybody can do it all. 

413
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,000
Yeah. 
Do you still do that? 

414
00:21:58,700 --> 00:22:03,500
You think I'm better. 
I'm better I used to be so 

415
00:22:03,700 --> 00:22:06,300
competitive and I always had to 
be bright. 

416
00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:09,500
Things always had to be perfect 
and I think because I'm going to

417
00:22:09,500 --> 00:22:12,500
therapy, and because I think 
I've just had this revelation 

418
00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:15,100
of, you know, how would I 
Student may be affected me 

419
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:18,400
growing up that some of these 
reactions. 

420
00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:22,700
Some of these Tendencies just 
tend to be that survival 

421
00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:24,900
mechanism that I don't need 
anymore. 

422
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,100
I'm a grown adults. 
I'm in a loving relationship 

423
00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:31,900
with my family and I can calm 
down a little bit. 

424
00:22:31,900 --> 00:22:35,100
Yeah. 
And like go, but it's just been 

425
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,100
a little bit of time last year. 
My girls even said, gosh, mom, 

426
00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:40,800
you're doing so much better. 
You're so much calmer because I 

427
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,300
used to go off. 
So at the drop of a hat. 

428
00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:45,500
Some Things would just set me 
over the edge. 

429
00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:47,500
That was there was no reason for
it. 

430
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,500
Yeah, just wasn't a reason. 
Yeah. 

431
00:22:49,500 --> 00:22:52,600
So I'm noticing that more so I 
can control that a bit. 

432
00:22:52,700 --> 00:22:55,500
A lot of times it just becomes a
habit you know, that you keep 

433
00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:58,900
doing it over and over again and
you don't realize that it's just

434
00:22:58,900 --> 00:23:02,000
a habit until it's brought to 
your attention and you're like, 

435
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,900
you know what, this isn't 
working for me anymore. 

436
00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:06,500
I write like I used to never 
might change them. 

437
00:23:06,500 --> 00:23:09,900
Yeah, he's been ever like when 
people would almost question me 

438
00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:11,400
like you would do for your kids,
right? 

439
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,300
Did you grab your lunch before 
going out the door? 

440
00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:16,300
Like If someone asked me, if I 
grab my lunch, as I was leaving 

441
00:23:16,300 --> 00:23:18,300
it, be like, what do you think? 
Of course, I brought my lunch. 

442
00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:20,400
Why are you questioning? 
Why wouldn't I have dry? 

443
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,300
But like, and that's so silly 
because they're just doing that 

444
00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:25,800
to help me. 
But I wanted to be independent 

445
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,300
in like could do those things on
my own always, but I didn't want

446
00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:32,200
someone questioning me if I had 
it. 

447
00:23:32,300 --> 00:23:35,400
And if I didn't have it, you 
know, that I would never admit I

448
00:23:35,408 --> 00:23:38,000
didn't have it, right? 
Right. 

449
00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:41,600
I don't purpose. 
Yeah. 

450
00:23:43,100 --> 00:23:46,400
So what do you struggle with the
most about your adoption? 

451
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:54,200
I struggled the most of I think 
not having openness as a child 

452
00:23:54,300 --> 00:24:00,000
just in the fact of empathy of 
acknowledgement that there was a

453
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:05,200
separation and that I was just 
expected to move on and just 

454
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:10,000
live my life with these adopted 
family and never Question it and

455
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,300
never be told it was okay to 
feel sad. 

456
00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:17,700
I mean I know I had moments as a
child, I remember like not 

457
00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:21,400
running away but like hiding 
under a bed in the guest room, I

458
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,400
just remember this one time and 
I could hear everyone yelling 

459
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,400
for me and trying to find me. 
I never said where I was, and I 

460
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,900
fell asleep and when I finally 
woke up and came out, I got in 

461
00:24:31,900 --> 00:24:35,000
so much trouble but it was like 
I just wanted to be alone. 

462
00:24:35,100 --> 00:24:37,700
I didn't want all these people 
with me when it might have just 

463
00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:38,800
been a moment that I just 
needed. 

464
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,200
Into myself and not have you 
know a reminder that I wasn't 

465
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,700
with my birth family or 
whatever. 

466
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,800
Yeah, so I struggle mostly with 
that. 

467
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,900
And and right now it's the 
relationship with my mom and she

468
00:24:50,900 --> 00:24:53,800
always wants to talk, always 
wants to talk and then we try to

469
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,400
talk and I try to explain and I 
just get frustrated and upset. 

470
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:03,100
So it's just more of me learning
to be understanding that she's 

471
00:25:03,100 --> 00:25:06,400
maybe not gonna be the 
supportive person that I would 

472
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,000
hope for I in all this This but 
it's really like the information

473
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,100
that was kept and you know 
finding out that I was in foster

474
00:25:14,100 --> 00:25:18,000
care for some reason that just 
gets me it hits me so hard in 

475
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,400
the heart and like, you know, 
around my birthday and I'm like 

476
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:25,400
for the next, you know, 16 days 
who took care of me, you know. 

477
00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:28,000
Yeah. 
And so I think that's where I'm 

478
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,000
at and I struggle now with like 
you being in California that you

479
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:37,700
can't get your records and it 
just makes me so mad for you and

480
00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:40,800
every other adoptee That is 
treated like that. 

481
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,900
How is that? 
Not your right right to have the

482
00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:46,900
documents in your hands? 
Yeah. 

483
00:25:46,900 --> 00:25:49,400
Every like other people can read
your information. 

484
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,500
Yeah. 
But you can't live on when Isaac

485
00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:53,900
was an adult. 
I mean, I was 18, but still 18 

486
00:25:53,900 --> 00:25:56,100
is an adult. 
The adoption agency was 

487
00:25:56,100 --> 00:25:59,300
corresponding between My 
adoptive parents, and my 

488
00:25:59,300 --> 00:26:03,200
biological mother, she was 
having medical issues, and that 

489
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,000
should have gone to me. 
I was 18 years old. 

490
00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:11,700
Wait, nope, don't tell anybody, 
you know, like this is just 

491
00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:15,200
between us, you know? 
And when I found that out, I was

492
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,600
just like, well, what happened 
to her, is she still alive? 

493
00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:22,100
Is it something genetic now? 
I'm in my 20s getting ready to 

494
00:26:22,100 --> 00:26:25,700
have a baby and I was like hey 
what happened? 

495
00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:28,600
Do I not have a right to know 
what happened? 

496
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,700
You know right? 
Oh yeah. 

497
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,700
Oh thank goodness. 
I did have reunions and found 

498
00:26:32,700 --> 00:26:35,700
out all those things but 
otherwise I wouldn't have right.

499
00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:37,900
Still wouldn't have known, you 
know? 

500
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,100
Exactly crazy. 
It's crazy. 

501
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,900
So let's talk about reunions for
a second. 

502
00:26:41,900 --> 00:26:45,000
So, how did you find your 
biological mother? 

503
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,800
And father, I did ancestry DNA. 
And I matched with my birth 

504
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,200
father, believed that one or 
not. 

505
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,200
It was a username. 
So I didn't know his name, but 

506
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,600
then I matched with a couple 
other cousins. 

507
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:03,100
Like, first second cousins, that
were actually maternal cousins. 

508
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,200
And I reached out to them 
because I match with my father, 

509
00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:09,500
I knew who was I. 
Could separate the batches, 

510
00:27:09,500 --> 00:27:13,500
which was good. 
Yeah and so one of my cousins 

511
00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:17,900
had a extensive family tree and 
I reached out to her and she was

512
00:27:17,900 --> 00:27:20,300
like, I'll help you, I don't 
know what you're looking for. 

513
00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:23,800
So I kind of did the math. 
I had non-identifying 

514
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,500
information, so I knew that my 
mom was an only child that her, 

515
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:31,300
dad was one of seven, the oldest
of seven. 

516
00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:33,200
Wow. 
So it's a good Clues on this 

517
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,800
cousins tree. 
Yeah, on this tree, she knew it.

518
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,100
So She pretty much told me who 
she thought my birth mom was, 

519
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,300
and then just through ancestry. 
I found my grandfather's death 

520
00:27:42,300 --> 00:27:45,200
certificate, so I was able to 
find her married name cuz she 

521
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:51,500
signed it and then we go to 
Facebook if after on Facebook 

522
00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:55,600
this was fairly recent so so it 
was in 2018. 

523
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,600
Okay, yeah. 
So pretty recent still. 

524
00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:01,600
So how did that go? 
So I reached out through 

525
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,200
Messenger, she didn't see it 
right away and then I was like, 

526
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,600
okay, I did you say I just first
off, I said, just something 

527
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,900
basic like hi. 
I'm not sure how we're 

528
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:14,200
connected, you know, blah, blah,
blah, and then I didn't get a 

529
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,000
message back and I was like, 
okay I'm getting tired of 

530
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,100
waiting so I pretty much laid it
out there. 

531
00:28:19,100 --> 00:28:21,800
Like this is my name. 
I was born on this day. 

532
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:28,100
I believe I have a common match 
with your father and I listed 

533
00:28:28,100 --> 00:28:31,700
his name and then I said, I 
think you're my birth mom when 

534
00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:33,800
she finally opened it. 
And I guess that portal. 

535
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,000
I don't understand how direct 
messaging works if you're not. 

536
00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:37,200
Friends. 
Yeah. 

537
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,800
Goes into some weird. 
Yeah, bucket. 

538
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,900
But sometimes you don't see for 
years, right? 

539
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,900
So she did see it and then she 
did reply, right back to me, 

540
00:28:45,900 --> 00:28:49,300
that she was so happy. 
I reached out to her, and that 

541
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:51,700
she was glad. 
So that all went great. 

542
00:28:51,700 --> 00:28:54,800
And she gave me her phone number
and she's, like, call me 

543
00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:56,900
anytime. 
So, of course, I called that 

544
00:28:56,900 --> 00:28:59,100
night, right? 
When it happened. 

545
00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:02,000
Yeah, we just talked briefly and
it was really cool. 

546
00:29:02,300 --> 00:29:05,300
And then we just kind of built a
relationship through text 

547
00:29:05,300 --> 00:29:08,900
messages. 
And email phone calls. 

548
00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:12,200
So things are pretty good. 
I'm getting to know her and 

549
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,900
that's great and so obviously 
she told me who my birth father 

550
00:29:14,900 --> 00:29:22,300
was and I then reached out to 
him through the mail because 

551
00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:25,800
ancestry portal, they weren't 
responding, I guess it was his 

552
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,300
wife, who was the manager of his
account. 

553
00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:33,200
So she never answered. 
I sent him a letter, he called 

554
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,900
me the day. 
He got the letter and was kind 

555
00:29:35,900 --> 00:29:37,600
of Of, I don't know how to put 
it. 

556
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,400
He I mean, in a way he was kind 
of rude. 

557
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,000
He was like, okay, so I got your
letter. 

558
00:29:42,300 --> 00:29:44,700
I can't believe that you were 
able to find me this easily and 

559
00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:47,400
I was like but you did ancestry.
Okay? 

560
00:29:47,500 --> 00:29:49,600
Okay. 
Wow. 

561
00:29:49,700 --> 00:29:54,000
So I was like nice to meet ya 
and then he like just because I 

562
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,600
think my letter was just very 
like hi. 

563
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,600
This is my birthday blah blah 
blah. 

564
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,500
I would love to, you know here's
my kids. 

565
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:04,300
I just gave a like a little 
rundown of who I am, what I was 

566
00:30:04,300 --> 00:30:06,600
looking for you know, Medical 
Asian. 

567
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,300
So he this rattled off a couple 
things like I had a shoulder 

568
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:11,900
surgery. 
I had this, I had that and then 

569
00:30:11,900 --> 00:30:15,300
he warmed up a bit after that, 
which was nice. 

570
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,300
I have a half brother that 
doesn't want to meet me from 

571
00:30:18,300 --> 00:30:21,700
him. 
So we met one time and his, his 

572
00:30:21,700 --> 00:30:27,200
wife came with and she said, I 
said, could I get a picture? 

573
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,600
And she was like, I don't want 
to see this on Facebook and I 

574
00:30:30,608 --> 00:30:34,000
was like, hmm. 
So you're not really so keen on 

575
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:39,500
the whole thing. 
I'm so, wow, you're not even a 

576
00:30:39,508 --> 00:30:41,000
part of this little lady. 
Stay out of it. 

577
00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:43,700
Exactly. 
So I was like, wow, that hurt. 

578
00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:48,900
So when I left there, I was 
pretty much in tears and just so

579
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,400
emotional because that's the 
last thing I wanted to do was 

580
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,500
interrupt someone's life and 
disrupt them and blah blah. 

581
00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:58,100
You know, like I mean it's true.
I think a lot of people think 

582
00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:00,400
adoptees maybe want something I 
don't want anything. 

583
00:31:00,700 --> 00:31:05,000
Exactly, I know and that's I 
mean I'm sure there are adoptees

584
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,600
that wanted something. 
From their families when they 

585
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,500
found him. 
But I mean I haven't heard of 

586
00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:13,900
anyone that has been like that. 
It's like I just want to know 

587
00:31:13,900 --> 00:31:15,200
you. 
I just want to know my history, 

588
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,100
I want to know my medical 
history. 

589
00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:20,000
I don't want anything from you, 
but that's kind of when you were

590
00:31:20,100 --> 00:31:21,800
describing that. 
That's what it sounded like. 

591
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,500
What does she want from us? 
And same thing with your half 

592
00:31:24,500 --> 00:31:26,400
brother. 
He's like, I'm like, I'm not 

593
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,400
really they're afraid. 
I'm like, people usually like 

594
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:30,500
me. 
So I think that was like, 

595
00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:33,900
upsetting to me to is that, you 
know, feeling that rejection 

596
00:31:33,900 --> 00:31:36,900
again. 
So we could have Kept in touch, 

597
00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:40,800
we made some phone calls we 
texted here and there and then 

598
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,600
he kind of went cold on me and I
was like, oh okay, I don't know 

599
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,800
what I did. 
So I just wrote him another. 

600
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,200
Let like I would send Christmas 
cards and let not. 

601
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,200
And I wrote another letter. 
That said something like I'm 

602
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,700
here, I don't know what's going 
on. 

603
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,600
The door's always open. 
And you know how to get in touch

604
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,400
with me. 
I don't want to disrupt your 

605
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,900
life. 
Sorry if it was an intrusion but

606
00:32:01,900 --> 00:32:06,100
whatever and then I didn't send 
him a text. 

607
00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:10,500
His birthday the following year 
and he sent me a text. 

608
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,300
Like, I can't believe you dissed
me like that and didn't send me 

609
00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:19,100
a text and I was like, wait, but
did you stocks like did you 

610
00:32:19,100 --> 00:32:20,400
you're acting like a 
two-year-old? 

611
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,000
And then I was like, no. 
Okay. 

612
00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:25,800
I said, didn't you get my letter
and his response was yes. 

613
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,700
Oh he did okay and then that was
it. 

614
00:32:28,700 --> 00:32:32,900
I think that is the last time 
that he has responded to a text 

615
00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:36,000
message of mine and I haven't 
gotten medic. 

616
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,100
All information from him at all,
which, you know, I mean, he 

617
00:32:39,100 --> 00:32:41,400
rattled stuff off the first time
we ever talked on the phone. 

618
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,900
Can I remember any of it? 
Absolutely not. 

619
00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:50,000
Yeah, right. 
So recently, it's been bothering

620
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,500
me. 
So I recently did send him an 

621
00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:55,800
email with some questions. 
I had texted him said, I sent 

622
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,200
you an email, I would love if 
you could answer some of these 

623
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,900
questions that you feel 
comfortable answering didn't 

624
00:33:00,900 --> 00:33:04,200
hear from him. 
So I printed out the email, I 

625
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:08,300
put it in an envelope with a 
stamped pre-addressed envelope 

626
00:33:08,300 --> 00:33:12,600
back to me and asked him to 
please fill out if you felt 

627
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,300
comfortable with whatever and if
he wasn't going to do it, if you

628
00:33:16,300 --> 00:33:19,200
could give me the courtesy of 
just telling me he wasn't going 

629
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,600
to do it nothing. 
Wow, yeah. 

630
00:33:24,100 --> 00:33:28,100
So I'm to the point where I need
to pick up the phone but that's 

631
00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:31,500
another, you know, deep breath 
hurdle that. 

632
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,400
Yeah. 
But I'm just like you have three

633
00:33:34,500 --> 00:33:38,100
grandchildren here. 
Do I think he had mentioned, he 

634
00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:42,600
had like some skin cancer 
removed at one point and both of

635
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,100
my daughters have had like 
precancerous things. 

636
00:33:45,100 --> 00:33:47,800
So I'd really like to know the 
details. 

637
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,300
Yeah. 
You know, for my family, for my 

638
00:33:50,300 --> 00:33:53,800
kids, right. 
How can you be this person? 

639
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,100
That's so, I don't know. 
But Stephen the word to say, 

640
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:05,200
yeah, selfish selfish selfish 
that you aren't willing to give 

641
00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:09,800
information When that could be 
beneficial to human beings 

642
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,100
whether or not you want a 
relationship. 

643
00:34:12,699 --> 00:34:14,100
I'm not. 
Yeah, just because you tell me 

644
00:34:14,100 --> 00:34:16,100
your medical history. 
Doesn't mean we have to, you 

645
00:34:16,100 --> 00:34:18,699
know, go out and see each other 
and talk on the phone every 

646
00:34:18,699 --> 00:34:21,300
minute, right. 
And it's so frustrating because 

647
00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:24,600
he was adopted, like, I don't 
even know where he was born. 

648
00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:27,300
I don't even know anything, even
crazier? 

649
00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:33,100
Yeah I'm sure that's woven into 
his reactions somehow right to 

650
00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:35,699
right. 
You know I'm sure that I got and

651
00:34:35,699 --> 00:34:40,199
then the Fluids from his wife 
and his son right to. 

652
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,400
Yeah, that's another thing. 
So who knows what he's really 

653
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,400
feeling about any of it, right? 
You know or if he's even he's 

654
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,500
probably still in the fog and 
doesn't even right just 

655
00:34:50,500 --> 00:34:53,100
reacting. 
He's just reacting exactly F. 

656
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:54,300
Exactly. 
Yeah. 

657
00:34:54,500 --> 00:34:56,000
Wow. 
But still, yeah. 

658
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,900
But to do that is that's another
level right? 

659
00:34:58,900 --> 00:35:02,000
And I or you just want to give 
medical information and it was 

660
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:07,600
just basically like I'm just 
like you know, over a Day tactic

661
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,200
number of non hurt. 
They text and his birthday is in

662
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,800
May so it's open. 
He was right around Mother's 

663
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,500
Day. 
So I think he sent me like, oh, 

664
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:16,500
happy Mother's Day. 
You must have missed that. 

665
00:35:16,500 --> 00:35:19,800
It was my birthday yesterday and
I was like, who's sending that? 

666
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,500
Like, this sounded like in 
seventh or eighth grader, you 

667
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:25,900
know, I just like what? 
It's so immature of a response 

668
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,200
to someone who really wasn't 
putting that initiative out 

669
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,900
there. 
And so here, now I am right? 

670
00:35:31,900 --> 00:35:34,500
And I get nothing. 
So I don't know if he's just a 

671
00:35:34,508 --> 00:35:37,800
stubborn man. 
And wants to just get the last 

672
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,100
word or no word but it's pretty 
sad that he could be like that. 

673
00:35:42,100 --> 00:35:45,700
And I just think then died 
really even want to know him if 

674
00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:48,600
this is the kind of person he is
and can treat other people like 

675
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,700
this. 
Like, this is not someone I 

676
00:35:50,707 --> 00:35:53,400
would surround myself with, in 
my circle. 

677
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:58,000
Yeah, yeah, I know I'm kind of 
in that same boat right now, my 

678
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,600
biological mom and like, I have 
this something telling me that 

679
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:06,600
reach out again, right? 
Because she's 75 now, And should

680
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,600
I try one more time? 
And I sent a couple of emails 

681
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,000
and they've not, she hasn't 
responded. 

682
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,600
And I refuse to call. 
That's too personal for me right

683
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,800
now. 
I don't want to have that on the

684
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,300
phone thing. 
So I'm I feel OK with emails 

685
00:36:20,300 --> 00:36:22,500
right now? 
And she hasn't responded and if 

686
00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:24,800
she doesn't look at her emails 
that much, but right? 

687
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,900
Yeah, I don't know. 
I send her one on her birthday 

688
00:36:26,900 --> 00:36:30,100
this year since she was 75, 
super generic. 

689
00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:31,900
But who knows. 
She could be listening to this 

690
00:36:31,900 --> 00:36:33,800
podcast and she could be pissed 
at me. 

691
00:36:34,500 --> 00:36:38,000
Well, and that's the thing too 
is like First came out to like, 

692
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,800
go on podcast and share my story
and just became more comfortable

693
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,900
with it after finding such great
adoption, support groups and 

694
00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:51,000
just feeling like, wow, this is 
not a crazy Moment In My Head, 

695
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,900
this is a real thing when you 
hear other people say the words 

696
00:36:55,100 --> 00:36:58,000
and you're like, that is what 
I've been trying to say. 

697
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,300
But I haven't had those birds 
mmm. 

698
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,400
I'm like, if someone's going to 
be upset with me because they 

699
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:08,300
hear how I'm feeling and what 
I'm Saying I'm sorry but that is

700
00:37:08,300 --> 00:37:10,000
you know these are my feelings. 
Yeah. 

701
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,700
And it can only help other 
adoptees I think to feel and 

702
00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:17,100
even like adoptive parents and 
birth family. 

703
00:37:17,100 --> 00:37:21,600
If they could just listen to the
words that we say, as lived 

704
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,600
experience, right? 
We have the lived experience. 

705
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:26,900
Yeah. 
And not put us down and say, you

706
00:37:26,900 --> 00:37:29,600
know, now or this or that like 
I'm sorry. 

707
00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:33,500
We deserve it and we need to be 
heard so right? 

708
00:37:33,500 --> 00:37:37,500
Yeah, the adoptive parents and 
The birth mothers that I've 

709
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:41,200
interviewed have both said when 
I've asked, you know, what would

710
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,300
you tell another birth mother 
something? 

711
00:37:43,300 --> 00:37:46,200
They're like, listen to adopt 
these on podcasts. 

712
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,800
Listen to them because this is 
what's happening like you need 

713
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,600
to know and I feel like every 
leg of the Triad has their own 

714
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,700
fog that they need to come out 
of. 

715
00:37:56,300 --> 00:38:00,400
And so we need to be 
compassionate to everyone as to 

716
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,200
where they're at but at the same
time not let it keep us from 

717
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,200
speaking our trip as well. 
Well, that's not that's not 

718
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,900
fair. 
So do you have any advice for 

719
00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:13,200
people seeking to reunite with 
their biological families? 

720
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,400
So it's so crazy. 
I think the biggest thing I look

721
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:23,600
back at is maybe I think I would
have done it regardless, right. 

722
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,500
But I think now that I have 
sought out therapy and have been

723
00:38:27,500 --> 00:38:32,000
going to seek help and just 
understanding the trauma of 

724
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,800
adoption that it would be good 
to have a really strong support.

725
00:38:36,100 --> 00:38:39,400
And who kind of knows what may 
or may not happen? 

726
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,600
Because even with my birth mom, 
and our relationship, I feel 

727
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,800
like when we first connected, we
talked a lot. 

728
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,600
We texted a lot. 
We were getting information back

729
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,700
and forth and sending pictures 
and it was just so amazing. 

730
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,900
And so here, now we're five 
years, down the road and some of

731
00:38:57,900 --> 00:39:00,700
the times, she'll send, you 
know, a text message or whatever

732
00:39:00,700 --> 00:39:03,200
is like, oh what are you doing? 
Take the weather's, really nice 

733
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,600
here. 
I'm like so that's all we've 

734
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:06,600
got. 
About right. 

735
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,800
We're just going to talk about 
the weather and that really 

736
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,200
hurts to, you know, and you 
know, when we were supposed to 

737
00:39:13,300 --> 00:39:16,900
originally schedule, the 
interview I had found out that 

738
00:39:16,900 --> 00:39:22,300
she was in town and I didn't 
know and it hurt me so much to 

739
00:39:22,300 --> 00:39:27,500
know that she was 45 minutes 
away and then I get a text from 

740
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:31,400
her like on the Monday that she 
got back and she was like so sad

741
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,900
we were so close. 
It was like yeah, but you knew 

742
00:39:34,900 --> 00:39:35,900
you were close. 
I did. 

743
00:39:36,100 --> 00:39:38,900
No, I was close. 
Why didn't you mash out, you 

744
00:39:38,900 --> 00:39:40,100
know? 
Right. 

745
00:39:40,100 --> 00:39:42,600
So you say anything back door, I
did. 

746
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,500
I kind of said, gosh, I wish I 
would have known you were in 

747
00:39:44,508 --> 00:39:45,900
town. 
She's like, well, we thought 

748
00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:50,800
about giving you a call, but, 
you know, and I'm like, it hurts

749
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,200
that hurts so much, you know, 
from someone who was, she seen 

750
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,200
one of your sisters or yeah? 
Yeah, yeah. 

751
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,100
Wow. 
And that's the sister that I've 

752
00:40:00,100 --> 00:40:01,700
got. 
I mean, we go like she's come to

753
00:40:01,700 --> 00:40:04,300
my kids sporting events. 
I've gone to her kids sporting 

754
00:40:04,300 --> 00:40:06,100
events. 
So it's not like we haven't It 

755
00:40:06,100 --> 00:40:09,300
wouldn't have been like, oh, Amy
has to come, like, yeah, it 

756
00:40:09,300 --> 00:40:12,000
would have been. 
Okay, have, you know, weird. 

757
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,400
So, I know and then I think 
sometimes it gets to be. 

758
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,600
And I think that this way too 
sometimes is, I don't want to 

759
00:40:19,700 --> 00:40:22,400
ask to put someone out, like, I 
don't want them to feel 

760
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,200
obligated. 
We have to get together, right? 

761
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,700
And I don't know if that's how 
she felt like. 

762
00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:28,500
Well, I don't want to, you know,
it's last minute. 

763
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:30,900
I don't want to make them feel 
like they have to come see us, 

764
00:40:30,900 --> 00:40:33,900
but I would have yeah. 
Eddie's at least say that if you

765
00:40:33,908 --> 00:40:35,800
say, hey, I'm just letting you 
know, I'm here. 

766
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,400
So obligated to come, but I'd 
love to see you whatever 

767
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,900
whatever but exactly. 
Yeah. 

768
00:40:40,900 --> 00:40:43,600
So did she understand that you 
were upset? 

769
00:40:44,700 --> 00:40:48,300
I think she was, but she kind of
blew it off, you know, by saying

770
00:40:48,300 --> 00:40:51,700
oh we thought about it. 
But yeah, you know the day got 

771
00:40:51,700 --> 00:40:54,700
away from us or something. 
How far away does she live? 

772
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,200
She's four hours away. 
Okay. 

773
00:40:57,500 --> 00:40:59,800
Hmm. 
So you guys have met. 

774
00:41:00,300 --> 00:41:04,600
We have mad and we've done 
vacations together and yeah we 

775
00:41:04,700 --> 00:41:07,900
do a lot of things together. 
Sir, when we can for sure, which

776
00:41:07,900 --> 00:41:09,700
is great. 
Have you done anything with her 

777
00:41:09,700 --> 00:41:12,700
and your sisters? 
Yes, I mean they've been at 

778
00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:16,300
parties at my house in March. 
I have a sister who lives in 

779
00:41:16,308 --> 00:41:19,800
Colorado. 
We went out there for a ski trip

780
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:25,000
with her and my sister family. 
So, yeah, we're trying to like 

781
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,100
get to know each other better. 
Yeah, mechanically effort. 

782
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,400
So but it's still, my advice 
would be. 

783
00:41:31,500 --> 00:41:34,000
It's the roller coaster. 
It's a roller coaster. 

784
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:36,700
It's as much as you think things
are like, Fantastic. 

785
00:41:36,700 --> 00:41:41,200
There will be a moment that hits
you so hard that will just, you 

786
00:41:41,207 --> 00:41:44,100
know, bring you down in the 
dumps for a bit because it 

787
00:41:44,100 --> 00:41:47,000
whether it's, that feeling 
rejection again, but it's 

788
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,800
ongoing. 
Yeah, I know. 

789
00:41:49,900 --> 00:41:52,100
Yeah, I've had that a few times 
been blindsided. 

790
00:41:52,100 --> 00:41:54,100
I'm like, I thought everything 
is good. 

791
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:55,300
Bye. 
What is this? 

792
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,900
Yeah, it's so crazy. 
Yeah, you know, you feel like 

793
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,300
you can't have these heavy 
conversations or supposed to get

794
00:42:02,300 --> 00:42:03,600
along. 
Everything's supposed to be 

795
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,400
great. 
And it supposed to be like you 

796
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,300
see, on TV. 
Evie where rights all better now

797
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:12,400
but yeah, it just put it throws 
a whole nother monkey wrench 

798
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,900
into the yeah, whole thing. 
Yeah. 

799
00:42:18,100 --> 00:42:22,800
So the fog are you in or are you
out or do you even use the term 

800
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,300
the fog? 
I like the term the fog because 

801
00:42:25,300 --> 00:42:30,000
I yeah, I'm definitely out of 
the fog, you know, and was there

802
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,900
something that jerky out of the 
fog? 

803
00:42:31,900 --> 00:42:36,800
Or I slowly came out, jerked me 
out and I think it Is after 

804
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,800
reunions a few years after 
reunions. 

805
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,700
When I, like I said, when I felt
like I didn't belong on either 

806
00:42:42,700 --> 00:42:45,600
families, adopt a family and 
biological that. 

807
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:50,800
I was really this own entity on 
my own and it just opened my 

808
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,200
eyes to, you know what, I was 
masking. 

809
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,100
But I was like suppressing in my
body and not know that there was

810
00:42:58,100 --> 00:43:02,600
trauma as an infant, you know, 
separated at Birth. 

811
00:43:03,100 --> 00:43:07,300
So yeah, I'm out. 
I would like to go back to 

812
00:43:07,300 --> 00:43:11,600
sometimes. 
I look at pictures and I think I

813
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,500
could go back and look. 
I've heard a lot of fun. 

814
00:43:14,500 --> 00:43:19,500
No I wouldn't. 
Yeah I know. 

815
00:43:19,900 --> 00:43:22,500
We do say that though. 
So you mentioned therapy. 

816
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:25,300
Is there any other things that 
you've found that have helped 

817
00:43:25,300 --> 00:43:29,200
you deal with a trauma? 
Yeah I have a good therapist. 

818
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,900
She's really good. 
She's adopting competent. 

819
00:43:31,900 --> 00:43:35,700
I would say she's not an adoptee
but she really knows her stuff. 

820
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,700
That's great, the adoptee 
community on Facebook. 

821
00:43:39,700 --> 00:43:43,400
I think is amazing. 
I did just recently meet up with

822
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,700
an adoptees connect group in 
Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 

823
00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:48,600
It's not in my state but I'm 
close enough. 

824
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,600
And so going monthly to just be 
with other adoptees is awesome. 

825
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:58,300
I have done a writers, you know,
adoptee writer group with an 

826
00:43:58,300 --> 00:44:01,700
Peck. 
Yes and then I did a retreat 

827
00:44:01,700 --> 00:44:05,300
with an Heffron. 
Well yeah and it was on Zoom. 

828
00:44:05,300 --> 00:44:07,500
I would love. 
Of to do an in-person Retreat? 

829
00:44:07,500 --> 00:44:10,800
Yeah, it's going to be a goal 
for maybe next year to just try 

830
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,800
to get that slated because it 
was amazing. 

831
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,500
Even on Zoom, just having the 
connection and, and talking to 

832
00:44:17,500 --> 00:44:20,000
adoptees. 
And that just brings a lot of 

833
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,600
comfort to me to know you're not
alone. 

834
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,300
Yeah, it does. 
So, if you could give any advice

835
00:44:26,300 --> 00:44:30,400
to other struggling, adoptees, 
anything else that you would 

836
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:35,000
tell them, I would tell them to 
really not ignore it, you know, 

837
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:40,000
not think that That you're crazy
or it's unnatural to have these 

838
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,800
feelings. 
I have a nephew who kind of had 

839
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:48,000
some struggling a few years ago 
and he called me and you know, I

840
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,800
said, I totally understand and 
then he got so concerned because

841
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,600
he goes, I'm only 19. 
What am I going to be? 

842
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,100
Like, when I'm 50 and I said, oh
my gosh, you're going to be 

843
00:44:57,100 --> 00:45:00,500
amazing when you're 50 because 
you're dealing with it at 19. 

844
00:45:00,900 --> 00:45:03,800
All right, you know? 
So I think you need to deal with

845
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,500
it. 
You need to get a good group of 

846
00:45:05,900 --> 00:45:08,500
Port around you. 
My best friend from high school?

847
00:45:08,500 --> 00:45:11,300
She is amazing. 
She listens to all the podcasts 

848
00:45:11,300 --> 00:45:15,000
that I send her way and she 
always has questions and she 

849
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,700
Belize, you know, it's just have
someone. 

850
00:45:17,700 --> 00:45:19,800
You can lean on, to say, do you 
need to talk? 

851
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,200
Are you doing okay? 
Because I feel like adoptees a 

852
00:45:22,207 --> 00:45:25,000
lot of times. 
Keep it all to themselves. 

853
00:45:25,100 --> 00:45:27,000
Yeah. 
And you can from the outside 

854
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,400
look like you are 100% put 
together but on the inside, 

855
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,600
you're crying yourself to sleep 
at night because of just the 

856
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:39,000
emotions that you're dealing. 
With and there's just such I 

857
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,700
guess they seem like they come 
from nowhere and it's hard for 

858
00:45:41,700 --> 00:45:45,100
people to understand that you 
could be happy in your life with

859
00:45:45,100 --> 00:45:46,800
your family. 
You could be happy that you've 

860
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,200
met your biological family, your
adopted family could be great to

861
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,600
but yet you're struggling and 
sad and that's okay. 

862
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,500
But get help, get support, don't
do it on your own. 

863
00:45:56,500 --> 00:45:58,400
Yeah. 
When you said your best friend, 

864
00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:59,700
would you know, give you 
questions? 

865
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,200
That's big because when you 
bring it up, you know, you might

866
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,400
be distracting up a conversation
somewhere with somebody and then

867
00:46:05,900 --> 00:46:08,500
You get into a conversation and 
you're like well I was adopted, 

868
00:46:08,500 --> 00:46:10,800
you know, some situation where 
you kind of have to go, I was 

869
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:16,000
adopted so you know and it's so 
funny how the conversation the 

870
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:20,600
whole vibe of it turns like 
right, you know, it's like oh 

871
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,400
we're not supposed to talk about
this. 

872
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:27,100
Yeah, you know, and so recently,
I was at a family event and my 

873
00:46:27,100 --> 00:46:30,800
cousin's wife, I was talking to 
her and I said you know I was 

874
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,800
adopted right her eyes got all 
big and she was like she was 

875
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:35,500
shook her head. 
Yeah but I was thinking no, you 

876
00:46:35,500 --> 00:46:38,500
did. 
You didn't know and then I got 

877
00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:40,800
all awkward for a second and 
then she was like, then she 

878
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,200
started asking me questions and 
she was like, I'm so she kept 

879
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,200
apologizing. 
I'm like no it's fine. 

880
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,200
Like we want to talk about it's 
everybody else. 

881
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:49,300
It doesn't want to talk about 
it. 

882
00:46:49,300 --> 00:46:51,400
We're fine. 
You know because you kept like 

883
00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:53,700
I'm so sorry, I'm being nosy. 
What about this? 

884
00:46:53,700 --> 00:46:55,500
What about that and I was like 
no it's fine. 

885
00:46:55,500 --> 00:46:57,000
Yeah. 
But yeah it's funny how the 

886
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,100
whole tone will just turn like 
when you say you're adopted like

887
00:47:00,500 --> 00:47:03,300
right, I'm sorry and people even
apologize. 

888
00:47:03,300 --> 00:47:07,700
It's like for what are you 
Exactly. 

889
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,400
But yeah, it is it's so great to
have someone who was there like 

890
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:12,900
cuz she was like, how have you 
been doing? 

891
00:47:12,900 --> 00:47:15,300
I'm like, you know, I've been 
struggling a little bit lately 

892
00:47:15,300 --> 00:47:17,200
and she was, you happened. 
Why did you tell me? 

893
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,600
You know, I just didn't. 
She was, do you want to get 

894
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:21,400
together and talk? 
And I said, yeah, I would like 

895
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:22,900
that. 
So, you know, we're planning a 

896
00:47:22,908 --> 00:47:25,700
time where we can go and sit 
down and have coffee and talk, 

897
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,200
but she'll be the one to like 
sit and listen, which is just 

898
00:47:29,700 --> 00:47:32,200
and sometimes you need that 
outside the adoptee community 

899
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,700
because we feel so great. 
In the adoptee community we have

900
00:47:35,700 --> 00:47:40,500
a Commonality and share so many 
experiences that are similar but

901
00:47:40,500 --> 00:47:43,300
to bring that sometimes to the 
outside where people aren't 

902
00:47:43,300 --> 00:47:47,900
adapted to someone to sit there 
and genuinely care is also a 

903
00:47:47,900 --> 00:47:49,800
really great feeling. 
Yeah. 

904
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,500
And to have somebody that I 
think they feel like they need 

905
00:47:52,500 --> 00:47:56,400
to help or fix or like give you 
some advice or something and 

906
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,200
it's like, that's not what we 
need. 

907
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,000
We just need to be validated, 
right? 

908
00:48:01,100 --> 00:48:03,500
I just need to be validated and 
heard, that's it. 

909
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,400
You don't have to do anything 
else. 

910
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,200
Glee. 
Exactly. 

911
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,300
That's the biggest validation is
so important. 

912
00:48:10,300 --> 00:48:14,700
So I agree. 
I have to say, I have been 

913
00:48:14,700 --> 00:48:20,000
meeting the most amazing people 
lately on my interviews. 

914
00:48:20,100 --> 00:48:23,800
Unfortunately, we don't live 
close so I can't meet any of 

915
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,900
these people in person. 
Dang, I would love to meet some 

916
00:48:26,900 --> 00:48:30,700
of you guys. 
But Amy's story is the perfect 

917
00:48:30,700 --> 00:48:37,100
example of some of the hurtful 
things that can happen when you 

918
00:48:37,100 --> 00:48:42,800
are in adopt D, disappointment 
from your adoptive family, And 

919
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:47,800
rejections from your biological 
family in different ways. 

920
00:48:47,900 --> 00:48:52,100
I mean, even her birth mother, 
not telling her, that she was 45

921
00:48:52,100 --> 00:48:55,500
minutes away. 
That is hurtful and makes you 

922
00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:59,000
feel like what happens, what did
I do wrong? 

923
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,700
Why didn't you tell me? 
Why was I not invited many 

924
00:49:02,700 --> 00:49:06,300
times? 
The adoptee feels like the one 

925
00:49:06,300 --> 00:49:08,700
in the middle that has to 
balance. 

926
00:49:08,700 --> 00:49:13,900
Everyone else's feelings and 
emotions and at some Point you 

927
00:49:13,900 --> 00:49:18,500
just get so tired. 
And you just have to be true to 

928
00:49:18,500 --> 00:49:22,600
yourself. 
Relinquishment was not our fault

929
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:27,600
and whatever traumas came with, 
it was not our fault. 

930
00:49:27,700 --> 00:49:33,400
But what is our responsibility 
is healing from these traumas? 

931
00:49:34,100 --> 00:49:39,800
And I asked this question a lot 
on the podcast and I ask people,

932
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:44,100
do you think that you can heal 
Adoption trauma. 

933
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:49,100
And I get a variety of answers, 
but I would say 80% of the time,

934
00:49:49,100 --> 00:49:54,700
the answer is, no, I do not 
believe that you can heal from 

935
00:49:54,700 --> 00:49:57,700
relinquishment trauma. 
And to be honest, for a long 

936
00:49:57,700 --> 00:50:02,600
time, I have not known what side
of the fence that I felt I was 

937
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,400
on when confronted with that 
same question. 

938
00:50:05,700 --> 00:50:10,200
But something happened to me 
yesterday that we are going to 

939
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,800
talk about on the next. 
The sewed of mind. 

940
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:20,600
Your own Karma that has made me 
decide which side of the fence 

941
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:25,800
that I am on, on this subject. 
So, if you are all curious about

942
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:30,200
what happened to me to make me 
decide tune in next week. 

943
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,700
Thanks again. 
Amy for coming on the show today

944
00:50:32,700 --> 00:50:37,900
and helping me educate the world
as always, take what you need 

945
00:50:37,900 --> 00:50:41,600
and leave what you don't and 
always remember to mind your own

946
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,700
Karma. 
I'll see you next time. 

947
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:43,700
I'll see you next time.