Hey there. It's Melissa.
Brunetti and welcome to the mind your own Karma podcast.
He's our camera crew, thanks for joining me, on another episode
of mind, your own Karma. The adoption Chronicles.
Today, I have an adoptee story, in fact, a very personal adoptee
story. Amy Hansen is on the show today.
Let me tell you a little bit more about Amy.
Amy is a domestic adoptee born in 1969.
She was placed for adoption at Birth, she grew up in a loving
family and Was well cared for she was the happiest adoptee so
grateful to her birth parents for her adopted parents, and
always trying to make everyone else happy.
She was reunited with some of her birth family over the past
five years. And recently came out of the
fog, she's beginning to realize she was living behind the
disguise of a happy positive person who didn't know the loss
and grief, she was carrying today, Amy feels sad, confused
and angry. Her adoption and feels that
sharing her story. Is being honest.
For the first time in her life Amy has been married to a
wonderfully supportive husband for 30 years and they have three
Amazing adult children and two golden retrievers here is Amy
Hansen's adoption story. So we are welcoming 80 Hanson to
mind your own Karma today. Hi Amy.
Hi Melissa. Thanks for having me.
Yeah. How are you doing today?
Doing good. Nice and sunny day, so I'll take
the sunshine, right? Yeah.
So let's just jump in. I just want to hear talk about
your adoption story. What happened?
What do you know about why you were adopted?
Sure. So, I was placed for adoption at
Birth, pretty much with. I think the understanding that I
was always going to be placed for adoption my My birth mom was
in college, so was my birth father, they had dated and we're
not ready to settle down and get married.
So I think once the cat got out of the bag, you know, there was
no other choice for her. Her parents pretty much said
you're going to place this baby and your move on and forget
about it. So, you're born in baby.
Scoop are all right. Yeah, 1969.
Yeah. So, you know, in my whole life
thinking about that and understanding what these women
went through. Out support.
And she was an only child too, so she really didn't have
siblings that she could have leaned on.
And she hid her pregnancy from her parents until I think she
said about six months. Wow, so she really kind of just
took that on all herself and then was like, okay, you're
going to yeah, have this baby and move on.
She had already kind of made up her mind though, before that.
But that was what she was going to do.
Or I think she knew that was probably her only choice my
birth. Father is Also an adoptee.
So I haven't had deep conversations about this, you
know, I don't know if maybe he said yeah.
That's just what we're going to have to do.
Yeah, I know. She said she enjoyed being
pregnant with me but she just didn't have a choice.
Yeah. So, did you go to foster care at
all in between? So it's funny.
I know I was at the hospital for about eight days after I was
born and I never knew, I went to foster care until I was able to
get my adoption file. And when I got my adoption, I
found out I was in foster care for another eight days so that
was something that I had never known before.
That kind of hits, you hard, you know, when you think about it, I
don't know where I was. I don't know who took care of
me, so that's something I deal with now.
And I think other adoptees understand that the people who
aren't adopted, like, even My adoptive mom.
I said to her. I was like, I was in foster
care. She's like, no, you weren't.
Wow. Like, but I was, I mean, and
maybe she didn't know, like, I don't know what was told to To
her or not. But that was in my file.
The day I was dropped off at this address and then the day I
was given to my adopted family so they gave you the address of
your Foster. Yeah, there's an address in
there and a name and everything. Really, I've tried to because I
think it would be kind of neat to just reach out and buying,
but I haven't had any success with it.
So love to know who had. I mean, because that's just a
big especially, I don't know for me.
It's a big deal because I was there were probably two and a
half. Months.
Yeah, my birth mother didn't sign papers till I was like two
months old. Okay.
And so, I just wonder like, because, you know, I had my
original name, which was Jennifer, okay.
And so did they call me Jennifer, they call me something
else. Do they make up a name for me?
Who took care of me? Like, that's a big deal.
I was a little baby. You know, helpless baby.
Who had me? I've no clue.
No idea. Have you tried to look into that
Know What state were? Were you born in Indiana?
So they just open their records about five years ago.
Yeah, see, California. They're still okay closed.
So there's yeah, still not given us any information.
So how was your experience growing up in your adoptive
family. So I consider myself a loved
adoptee, I feel like my parents gave me the best that they could
given the circumstances. I have an older brother who's
also adopted. Okay.
We're not Directly related, he struggled more, keep us, I
guess, you know, as we put these out there, right?
He was the one who kind of rebelled and yeah.
Cause the havoc in my household and I was the one who was like,
oh, I've got to be like, what do you need?
Look at me, I'm so good. I'm going to make everyone happy
and not cause any problems. All right, so, but, you know,
typical childhood, I felt like my parents did go on to have a
child of their own. So I have a younger sister eight
and a half years, Younger than me, and we have a really good
relationship. Did they need?
They couldn't have any kids that, you know, it's so funny.
Because as these things have come up, that I've been thinking
about. I've asked my mom and I've said,
well, why did you adopt me or whatever?
And she's like, well, it didn't matter how our family came
together, you know? So she really isn't giving me
much answers. So, yeah.
And I haven't pressed the issue just because it's frustrating to
me. So, Your adoptive brother, did
he search for his family or ET did after I did?
So it was very interesting. He never really thought he was
that interested in it and I guess he had struggled with some
alcoholism and drug abuse and my parents thought that somewhere
in his adoption records. I don't know what they had that
his birth mom had also had some issues with that.
So I think they had tried to reach and find her just to kind
of know, family history. But they were never successful,
so he never pursued it. Then when I did he thought it
was really cool because I did find out and meet biological
family and so I bought him a DNA kit because I said, you know
what for your birthday? Let me get you one if you're
interested. Fine.
Yeah and so he wound up doing it and he did also find his birth
family, it was amazing for him to to get that done.
So yeah, so did you guys always know growing up that you were
adopted? Do you remember being told or
not? Know, I always knew we always
knew and I even had this conversation with him recently.
We don't talk a lot, we're not really that close, but when
these things have come up, and I've had questions, like, he has
a memory that I feel like he can remember back to when he was
like, four years old side, like, Hey, do you remember when we
were told, or you were told and he said, he never remembers a
sit-down either, but we always just Just knew we were adopted.
Yeah, that's how I was to my mom made a book little shit.
Make it up. It was a story about how they,
you know, got me and she said, I'd just be changing your diaper
and I just tell the story, you know.
And so I always knew like I don't ever remember being told.
I think that's the way it should be and I think that's great.
Even at six years old, if you're sat down and told I, you know, I
done a lot of interviews and people are just like that sticks
with you, right? And your mind it's like wait,
what? You're not my mom.
Didn't you know, right? Yeah.
I don't, I don't agree with that now, either do I.
So do you have any feelings? Surrounded being adopted when
you were little? And then, you know, even now.
So when I was younger, I really did.
I mean, just like a think, a lot of us are told were special,
we're lucky and I believed all that, right?
And so the story to of my parents were young and they
didn't have jobs, they were in college, they couldn't take care
of me, I believed all that. That and, you know, kind of
understood, I guess as much as I could.
So, I have very close friends, family members.
My husband, who, when I did decide to kind of search and
look, they were like, really you're doing that.
We thought you never cared, but looking back.
I feel like, I probably always, I mean, I always wondered I
always wondered my birthday Mother's Day.
You know, who do I look like, is my mom thinking about me that
kind of stuff? I did not mirror.
Parents, blond hair, blue eyes. They were dark hair, dark or
hazel eyes. Pretty dark complexion.
So, I didn't fit in with the mirroring of my family.
So I did always feel out of, I won't say how to place, but, you
know, one, family gatherings when they would be like, oh,
look, your cousin has that of her aunt, you know, and I would
always look at their faces and just any parts of them and be
like, oh my gosh, you have a freckle here.
I have a freckle here. Like, she's just trying to buy
like that. Yeah.
Yeah, just to kind of feel like I belonged more so I don't feel
like I had a problem. If anyone would have asked me
and I do have close family members, who did adopt and had
asked me prior to adopting, just how I felt about it.
And this is many years ago because their children are
adults now. Young adults and I said it was
great, like, oh my gosh, they're going to be so lucky to be with
us, you know? I was saying those things.
Yeah and things have Changed since I have, you know I don't
know what what it is if it's because of the age.
We are that you can start putting words to maybe thoughts
and feelings, you've had. I don't know you know, I'm still
trying to work through that like why does this all come out now?
Yeah, so when I did start struggling this family member
was like but you told us so many years ago and I was like, well
things change. Yeah, I think you're not given
permission. And to, you know, have the
feelings because of what we are told and what they were told to
tell us, you know. And then when you're older you
kind of get to that point where you're like you're starting to
stand on your own two feet and not conform as much and then all
these things start coming out and then you can look at them
differently growing up. We just have like these blinders
on. You don't want to think that
you're not a part, right? But you don't belong and all
that stuff. So No.
But yeah, as you get older, you definitely start kind of coming
into your own and being like, oh, wait a minute here.
Exactly. And I think two, more of a came,
I've been in reunions with my birth mom and three sisters that
I have through her half sisters, and I met my biological father
once, and we really don't communicate because of him now.
But I think, once I started building a relationship with
biological family and getting to know, Them is when I kind of
came out of the fog, because I could see similarities, you
know, in our features, and some just commonalities that I had
with them, that I didn't have with my adopted family and then
it became like almost in the middle.
Like I was in this place by myself.
Where, here's my adopted family that I was like, I grew up with
them. I know they loved me, but I
don't connect. I don't see any genetic
mirroring with them. Right.
And then you have your bio Chuckle family, that you've now,
mad that you want a deep connection with that, you want a
bond and they can accept you, and they can be delightful and
lovely and carrying and open, but you never have what you
would have had if you grew up with them.
So that I think is, when I really noticed what I miss out
on, and it's not so much but you missed out, but it's also like
not being able to express yourself as an adoptee as a
younger person. And I think that's where We're
failing right now. Yes.
Is these secrets when I was told my parents were poor and young
and they were in college. You're like, oh my gosh, if I
don't have money, is that going to be a bad thing?
It's so like, there's so many things that were told to this
child to make sense of it all. But as you get older and you
think, oh gosh, they were in college and they didn't have
money and so my dad loses his job.
We have to move, like it's going to definitely stressful thing
and it was never talked about and I never talked about it
because you were I don't want to be sent somewhere else if you
know, this is going bad. Well, back when, you know, we
were born, it was like the adoptive parents were told, you
know, integrate them into your family and so you just don't
talk about it. You don't talk about that.
You were adopted at all in any way, but it's the elephant in
the room especially for the adoptee all the time because we
want to talk about it. We do have questions and the
more you try and force the issue.
Shoe. That were a part of you, the
more we feel different because we already feel it and they're
not talking about it isn't going to help.
So, you know, I'm hoping the narrative is changing with that
because we're coming out and talking about our stories and
things. And I really want to draw in all
the constellation together, because even hearing like you
were saying earlier, the birth mothers perspective, I have so
much more compassion after doing a couple of birth mother
interviews, but I'm so glad I did and I'm so glad I'm bringing
that. You to the table because it is a
part of the story. It's a big part of the story,
right? And like you said when that
separation happens between the mother and child even meeting
later on and having that reunions that Bond was severed.
It doesn't, you can't reconnect it, it just doesn't work, it
just doesn't work. So with your half-sisters, how
do you feel about them compared to the siblings that you grew up
with? Do you still have that?
Bonds, or is it different? So I would say with like, with
my brother, I don't feel like we ever really bonded, like a
strong brother sister. I mean, we got along, we did our
thing but I don't feel a strong connection to him and I think he
feels the same way. You know, we see each other
maybe a couple times a year. You know.
Happy birthday on the birthday stuff like that and occasionally
we get together. My younger sister, we talk all
the time so we have a good connection.
And I think maybe because we're girls and we're sisters, and I
went through all the experiences, you know, getting
married having children wait before her.
And then when she had that, you know, I was one of her sounding
boards. So we still have a good
relationship my half-sisters you know, we're trying to establish
more of a relationship. One does live about 45 minutes
away and we see each other more regularly.
I mean, I've see her more than I see my brother so I guess that's
that they're very open. And Accepting.
But again, if you're not with them constantly, you're not
going to build that. Yeah, relationship of like what
you consider a sister. I mean, I have a high school
friend that I would consider I'm closer to than, you know, my
half-sisters yeah, for sure. Yeah.
I think that's pretty much common.
So, how is it growing up with your sister?
Since she was biological. Did you feel any difference and
with your adoptive parents between you and her?
Really didn't, but then again she was the baby, right?
So, and being so much younger than I was, it wasn't like we
were competing against the same type of attention or things like
that. So I don't really feel that she
got anything more. I know with my mom's parents and
my grandparents, they really took her under their wig.
She had such a great relationship with my grandfather
that I didn't have, but then we also didn't live near them when
I was younger, we moved back toward to where my parents
Family were later so she was probably younger and just got
more time with yeah I'm guessing yeah my adopted father has
passed but my adopted mom is still alive and my sister and I
struggle with kind of similar things with her, you know.
Mmm. The adoption aspect of it.
I'm struggling more with her, my adopted mom now and I think my
sister and my adopted mom have conversations about me, you
know, just like oh what she's going through right now, you
know, my sister kind of Stands up for me.
So my sister gets a lot of the brunt of it if I make my mom
upset with what I'm going through.
Yeah. But you know, my whole life
growing up, both my parents always said, if you want to
search we would help you. Hmm.
And so I never reached out and asked them for help, but when I
was doing DNA and I was matching and figuring out all the puzzle
pieces, it became really exciting for a moment with my
mom and then When I did meet my biological mother, she didn't
come obviously, I met with my husband and her husband, and my
sister, and her husband, but I called her so excited after we
had met and she got angry with me saying she wanted to go and
yeah, I got that. You know, when you get that kind
of a comment and you're like, this was my whole world, the
adoptee who was there to do what she wanted.
And now I didn't do what she wanted and now, she can't deal
with it. Yeah, you know.
No. So there I really struggle right
now. Like our relationship is such a
struggle. Hmm.
So ever since then, or ever since then yeah you know, and it
has to be hard like I understand it has to be hard but I think I
mean, I have friends my husband's not adopted that I
talked to about this and they can be understanding.
They can listen to the podcast and have questions for me, but
my mom just is like, oh, you still go to therapy.
Oh, you're not better yet, you know.
Like like I'm just going to be fixed.
And so I said, you know what? This has been going on for over
50 years. I think I'm going to be in
therapy for a while, you know, and she doesn't reach out and
say, like, she'll say, oh how are you not really a genuine
like how are things really with you?
How are you feeling? Like I don't get any of that.
So it's so hard because you just want that for my mom, right?
I know a lot of times. It feels like the adoptive
parents. Like when you going to stop
talking about this when is this going to stop being an ass?
Issue. I think they feel like they did
everything right. What could they have done
different and they did they did everything right?
Most of them, I can't say everybody, but for my
experience, they did everything right.
But there's nothing that they could do to fix that broken
relinquishment bonds. There's nothing now.
So that's going to be there but they take that on themselves and
have guilt about, maybe it's something they didn't do and
that's just not even the issue, right?
Right. I tried to say that I'm like,
you gave me a good life. I'm not, I'm not replacing you
but you have to be understanding about me, learning about my
origin. Yeah, and my connections with
birth relatives like that is such an important thing and she
had such great relationships with her aunts and cousins, and
her brother, you know? And I'm just like, don't you see
that? Those are things that you got by
being kept in, your family and raised by your biological
family. Well, one of the examples I
always say, A is what if, you know you were Switched at Birth
and you took home somebody else's baby and you thought that
was your blood relative and then you found out later that your
baby is out there somewhere, but you still not want to know that
other baby your flesh and blood. Like I think you would even
though, you know, I could say well you have a baby so it's a
big deal. Why do you have to know that?
You know, why do you have to find your biological?
It's the same thing. Like you just have to you know
something from inside that you just have to know for most of us
I say So looking back growing up even like into your teen years
and stuff, did you see ways that adoption played out and maybe
relationships or anxieties, or any kind of tendencies that you
can look back and see? I think and my husband, we were
just talking about this the other day that I was such an
independent young person, you know.
I got a job as soon as I could get a job, I work hard at
school. I took care of things on my own.
I didn't go to my parents and say I need help with this.
And it's funny because I have older kids now who are older
than I was when I did a lot of these things on my own and they
come to me and they ask and I'm like, and I have to remember,
this is normal, they don't need to know how to do all these
things. Themselves because there are in
the secure family knowing that we're here for them and we're
not going anywhere where I think I felt like I got to do this
myself so I know what's going on.
Yeah. You know I'm not going to rely
on. Anybody can do it all.
Yeah. Do you still do that?
You think I'm better. I'm better I used to be so
competitive and I always had to be bright.
Things always had to be perfect and I think because I'm going to
therapy, and because I think I've just had this revelation
of, you know, how would I Student may be affected me
growing up that some of these reactions.
Some of these Tendencies just tend to be that survival
mechanism that I don't need anymore.
I'm a grown adults. I'm in a loving relationship
with my family and I can calm down a little bit.
Yeah. And like go, but it's just been
a little bit of time last year. My girls even said, gosh, mom,
you're doing so much better. You're so much calmer because I
used to go off. So at the drop of a hat.
Some Things would just set me over the edge.
That was there was no reason for it.
Yeah, just wasn't a reason. Yeah.
So I'm noticing that more so I can control that a bit.
A lot of times it just becomes a habit you know, that you keep
doing it over and over again and you don't realize that it's just
a habit until it's brought to your attention and you're like,
you know what, this isn't working for me anymore.
I write like I used to never might change them.
Yeah, he's been ever like when people would almost question me
like you would do for your kids, right?
Did you grab your lunch before going out the door?
Like If someone asked me, if I grab my lunch, as I was leaving
it, be like, what do you think? Of course, I brought my lunch.
Why are you questioning? Why wouldn't I have dry?
But like, and that's so silly because they're just doing that
to help me. But I wanted to be independent
in like could do those things on my own always, but I didn't want
someone questioning me if I had it.
And if I didn't have it, you know, that I would never admit I
didn't have it, right? Right.
I don't purpose. Yeah.
So what do you struggle with the most about your adoption?
I struggled the most of I think not having openness as a child
just in the fact of empathy of acknowledgement that there was a
separation and that I was just expected to move on and just
live my life with these adopted family and never Question it and
never be told it was okay to feel sad.
I mean I know I had moments as a child, I remember like not
running away but like hiding under a bed in the guest room, I
just remember this one time and I could hear everyone yelling
for me and trying to find me. I never said where I was, and I
fell asleep and when I finally woke up and came out, I got in
so much trouble but it was like I just wanted to be alone.
I didn't want all these people with me when it might have just
been a moment that I just needed.
Into myself and not have you know a reminder that I wasn't
with my birth family or whatever.
Yeah, so I struggle mostly with that.
And and right now it's the relationship with my mom and she
always wants to talk, always wants to talk and then we try to
talk and I try to explain and I just get frustrated and upset.
So it's just more of me learning to be understanding that she's
maybe not gonna be the supportive person that I would
hope for I in all this This but it's really like the information
that was kept and you know finding out that I was in foster
care for some reason that just gets me it hits me so hard in
the heart and like, you know, around my birthday and I'm like
for the next, you know, 16 days who took care of me, you know.
Yeah. And so I think that's where I'm
at and I struggle now with like you being in California that you
can't get your records and it just makes me so mad for you and
every other adoptee That is treated like that.
How is that? Not your right right to have the
documents in your hands? Yeah.
Every like other people can read your information.
Yeah. But you can't live on when Isaac
was an adult. I mean, I was 18, but still 18
is an adult. The adoption agency was
corresponding between My adoptive parents, and my
biological mother, she was having medical issues, and that
should have gone to me. I was 18 years old.
Wait, nope, don't tell anybody, you know, like this is just
between us, you know? And when I found that out, I was
just like, well, what happened to her, is she still alive?
Is it something genetic now? I'm in my 20s getting ready to
have a baby and I was like hey what happened?
Do I not have a right to know what happened?
You know right? Oh yeah.
Oh thank goodness. I did have reunions and found
out all those things but otherwise I wouldn't have right.
Still wouldn't have known, you know?
Exactly crazy. It's crazy.
So let's talk about reunions for a second.
So, how did you find your biological mother?
And father, I did ancestry DNA. And I matched with my birth
father, believed that one or not.
It was a username. So I didn't know his name, but
then I matched with a couple other cousins.
Like, first second cousins, that were actually maternal cousins.
And I reached out to them because I match with my father,
I knew who was I. Could separate the batches,
which was good. Yeah and so one of my cousins
had a extensive family tree and I reached out to her and she was
like, I'll help you, I don't know what you're looking for.
So I kind of did the math. I had non-identifying
information, so I knew that my mom was an only child that her,
dad was one of seven, the oldest of seven.
Wow. So it's a good Clues on this
cousins tree. Yeah, on this tree, she knew it.
So She pretty much told me who she thought my birth mom was,
and then just through ancestry. I found my grandfather's death
certificate, so I was able to find her married name cuz she
signed it and then we go to Facebook if after on Facebook
this was fairly recent so so it was in 2018.
Okay, yeah. So pretty recent still.
So how did that go? So I reached out through
Messenger, she didn't see it right away and then I was like,
okay, I did you say I just first off, I said, just something
basic like hi. I'm not sure how we're
connected, you know, blah, blah, blah, and then I didn't get a
message back and I was like, okay I'm getting tired of
waiting so I pretty much laid it out there.
Like this is my name. I was born on this day.
I believe I have a common match with your father and I listed
his name and then I said, I think you're my birth mom when
she finally opened it. And I guess that portal.
I don't understand how direct messaging works if you're not.
Friends. Yeah.
Goes into some weird. Yeah, bucket.
But sometimes you don't see for years, right?
So she did see it and then she did reply, right back to me,
that she was so happy. I reached out to her, and that
she was glad. So that all went great.
And she gave me her phone number and she's, like, call me
anytime. So, of course, I called that
night, right? When it happened.
Yeah, we just talked briefly and it was really cool.
And then we just kind of built a relationship through text
messages. And email phone calls.
So things are pretty good. I'm getting to know her and
that's great and so obviously she told me who my birth father
was and I then reached out to him through the mail because
ancestry portal, they weren't responding, I guess it was his
wife, who was the manager of his account.
So she never answered. I sent him a letter, he called
me the day. He got the letter and was kind
of Of, I don't know how to put it.
He I mean, in a way he was kind of rude.
He was like, okay, so I got your letter.
I can't believe that you were able to find me this easily and
I was like but you did ancestry. Okay?
Okay. Wow.
So I was like nice to meet ya and then he like just because I
think my letter was just very like hi.
This is my birthday blah blah blah.
I would love to, you know here's my kids.
I just gave a like a little rundown of who I am, what I was
looking for you know, Medical Asian.
So he this rattled off a couple things like I had a shoulder
surgery. I had this, I had that and then
he warmed up a bit after that, which was nice.
I have a half brother that doesn't want to meet me from
him. So we met one time and his, his
wife came with and she said, I said, could I get a picture?
And she was like, I don't want to see this on Facebook and I
was like, hmm. So you're not really so keen on
the whole thing. I'm so, wow, you're not even a
part of this little lady. Stay out of it.
Exactly. So I was like, wow, that hurt.
So when I left there, I was pretty much in tears and just so
emotional because that's the last thing I wanted to do was
interrupt someone's life and disrupt them and blah blah.
You know, like I mean it's true. I think a lot of people think
adoptees maybe want something I don't want anything.
Exactly, I know and that's I mean I'm sure there are adoptees
that wanted something. From their families when they
found him. But I mean I haven't heard of
anyone that has been like that. It's like I just want to know
you. I just want to know my history,
I want to know my medical history.
I don't want anything from you, but that's kind of when you were
describing that. That's what it sounded like.
What does she want from us? And same thing with your half
brother. He's like, I'm like, I'm not
really they're afraid. I'm like, people usually like
me. So I think that was like,
upsetting to me to is that, you know, feeling that rejection
again. So we could have Kept in touch,
we made some phone calls we texted here and there and then
he kind of went cold on me and I was like, oh okay, I don't know
what I did. So I just wrote him another.
Let like I would send Christmas cards and let not.
And I wrote another letter. That said something like I'm
here, I don't know what's going on.
The door's always open. And you know how to get in touch
with me. I don't want to disrupt your
life. Sorry if it was an intrusion but
whatever and then I didn't send him a text.
His birthday the following year and he sent me a text.
Like, I can't believe you dissed me like that and didn't send me
a text and I was like, wait, but did you stocks like did you
you're acting like a two-year-old?
And then I was like, no. Okay.
I said, didn't you get my letter and his response was yes.
Oh he did okay and then that was it.
I think that is the last time that he has responded to a text
message of mine and I haven't gotten medic.
All information from him at all, which, you know, I mean, he
rattled stuff off the first time we ever talked on the phone.
Can I remember any of it? Absolutely not.
Yeah, right. So recently, it's been bothering
me. So I recently did send him an
email with some questions. I had texted him said, I sent
you an email, I would love if you could answer some of these
questions that you feel comfortable answering didn't
hear from him. So I printed out the email, I
put it in an envelope with a stamped pre-addressed envelope
back to me and asked him to please fill out if you felt
comfortable with whatever and if he wasn't going to do it, if you
could give me the courtesy of just telling me he wasn't going
to do it nothing. Wow, yeah.
So I'm to the point where I need to pick up the phone but that's
another, you know, deep breath hurdle that.
Yeah. But I'm just like you have three
grandchildren here. Do I think he had mentioned, he
had like some skin cancer removed at one point and both of
my daughters have had like precancerous things.
So I'd really like to know the details.
Yeah. You know, for my family, for my
kids, right. How can you be this person?
That's so, I don't know. But Stephen the word to say,
yeah, selfish selfish selfish that you aren't willing to give
information When that could be beneficial to human beings
whether or not you want a relationship.
I'm not. Yeah, just because you tell me
your medical history. Doesn't mean we have to, you
know, go out and see each other and talk on the phone every
minute, right. And it's so frustrating because
he was adopted, like, I don't even know where he was born.
I don't even know anything, even crazier?
Yeah I'm sure that's woven into his reactions somehow right to
right. You know I'm sure that I got and
then the Fluids from his wife and his son right to.
Yeah, that's another thing. So who knows what he's really
feeling about any of it, right? You know or if he's even he's
probably still in the fog and doesn't even right just
reacting. He's just reacting exactly F.
Exactly. Yeah.
Wow. But still, yeah.
But to do that is that's another level right?
And I or you just want to give medical information and it was
just basically like I'm just like you know, over a Day tactic
number of non hurt. They text and his birthday is in
May so it's open. He was right around Mother's
Day. So I think he sent me like, oh,
happy Mother's Day. You must have missed that.
It was my birthday yesterday and I was like, who's sending that?
Like, this sounded like in seventh or eighth grader, you
know, I just like what? It's so immature of a response
to someone who really wasn't putting that initiative out
there. And so here, now I am right?
And I get nothing. So I don't know if he's just a
stubborn man. And wants to just get the last
word or no word but it's pretty sad that he could be like that.
And I just think then died really even want to know him if
this is the kind of person he is and can treat other people like
this. Like, this is not someone I
would surround myself with, in my circle.
Yeah, yeah, I know I'm kind of in that same boat right now, my
biological mom and like, I have this something telling me that
reach out again, right? Because she's 75 now, And should
I try one more time? And I sent a couple of emails
and they've not, she hasn't responded.
And I refuse to call. That's too personal for me right
now. I don't want to have that on the
phone thing. So I'm I feel OK with emails
right now? And she hasn't responded and if
she doesn't look at her emails that much, but right?
Yeah, I don't know. I send her one on her birthday
this year since she was 75, super generic.
But who knows. She could be listening to this
podcast and she could be pissed at me.
Well, and that's the thing too is like First came out to like,
go on podcast and share my story and just became more comfortable
with it after finding such great adoption, support groups and
just feeling like, wow, this is not a crazy Moment In My Head,
this is a real thing when you hear other people say the words
and you're like, that is what I've been trying to say.
But I haven't had those birds mmm.
I'm like, if someone's going to be upset with me because they
hear how I'm feeling and what I'm Saying I'm sorry but that is
you know these are my feelings. Yeah.
And it can only help other adoptees I think to feel and
even like adoptive parents and birth family.
If they could just listen to the words that we say, as lived
experience, right? We have the lived experience.
Yeah. And not put us down and say, you
know, now or this or that like I'm sorry.
We deserve it and we need to be heard so right?
Yeah, the adoptive parents and The birth mothers that I've
interviewed have both said when I've asked, you know, what would
you tell another birth mother something?
They're like, listen to adopt these on podcasts.
Listen to them because this is what's happening like you need
to know and I feel like every leg of the Triad has their own
fog that they need to come out of.
And so we need to be compassionate to everyone as to
where they're at but at the same time not let it keep us from
speaking our trip as well. Well, that's not that's not
fair. So do you have any advice for
people seeking to reunite with their biological families?
So it's so crazy. I think the biggest thing I look
back at is maybe I think I would have done it regardless, right.
But I think now that I have sought out therapy and have been
going to seek help and just understanding the trauma of
adoption that it would be good to have a really strong support.
And who kind of knows what may or may not happen?
Because even with my birth mom, and our relationship, I feel
like when we first connected, we talked a lot.
We texted a lot. We were getting information back
and forth and sending pictures and it was just so amazing.
And so here, now we're five years, down the road and some of
the times, she'll send, you know, a text message or whatever
is like, oh what are you doing? Take the weather's, really nice
here. I'm like so that's all we've
got. About right.
We're just going to talk about the weather and that really
hurts to, you know, and you know, when we were supposed to
originally schedule, the interview I had found out that
she was in town and I didn't know and it hurt me so much to
know that she was 45 minutes away and then I get a text from
her like on the Monday that she got back and she was like so sad
we were so close. It was like yeah, but you knew
you were close. I did.
No, I was close. Why didn't you mash out, you
know? Right.
So you say anything back door, I did.
I kind of said, gosh, I wish I would have known you were in
town. She's like, well, we thought
about giving you a call, but, you know, and I'm like, it hurts
that hurts so much, you know, from someone who was, she seen
one of your sisters or yeah? Yeah, yeah.
Wow. And that's the sister that I've
got. I mean, we go like she's come to
my kids sporting events. I've gone to her kids sporting
events. So it's not like we haven't It
wouldn't have been like, oh, Amy has to come, like, yeah, it
would have been. Okay, have, you know, weird.
So, I know and then I think sometimes it gets to be.
And I think that this way too sometimes is, I don't want to
ask to put someone out, like, I don't want them to feel
obligated. We have to get together, right?
And I don't know if that's how she felt like.
Well, I don't want to, you know, it's last minute.
I don't want to make them feel like they have to come see us,
but I would have yeah. Eddie's at least say that if you
say, hey, I'm just letting you know, I'm here.
So obligated to come, but I'd love to see you whatever
whatever but exactly. Yeah.
So did she understand that you were upset?
I think she was, but she kind of blew it off, you know, by saying
oh we thought about it. But yeah, you know the day got
away from us or something. How far away does she live?
She's four hours away. Okay.
Hmm. So you guys have met.
We have mad and we've done vacations together and yeah we
do a lot of things together. Sir, when we can for sure, which
is great. Have you done anything with her
and your sisters? Yes, I mean they've been at
parties at my house in March. I have a sister who lives in
Colorado. We went out there for a ski trip
with her and my sister family. So, yeah, we're trying to like
get to know each other better. Yeah, mechanically effort.
So but it's still, my advice would be.
It's the roller coaster. It's a roller coaster.
It's as much as you think things are like, Fantastic.
There will be a moment that hits you so hard that will just, you
know, bring you down in the dumps for a bit because it
whether it's, that feeling rejection again, but it's
ongoing. Yeah, I know.
Yeah, I've had that a few times been blindsided.
I'm like, I thought everything is good.
Bye. What is this?
Yeah, it's so crazy. Yeah, you know, you feel like
you can't have these heavy conversations or supposed to get
along. Everything's supposed to be
great. And it supposed to be like you
see, on TV. Evie where rights all better now
but yeah, it just put it throws a whole nother monkey wrench
into the yeah, whole thing. Yeah.
So the fog are you in or are you out or do you even use the term
the fog? I like the term the fog because
I yeah, I'm definitely out of the fog, you know, and was there
something that jerky out of the fog?
Or I slowly came out, jerked me out and I think it Is after
reunions a few years after reunions.
When I, like I said, when I felt like I didn't belong on either
families, adopt a family and biological that.
I was really this own entity on my own and it just opened my
eyes to, you know what, I was masking.
But I was like suppressing in my body and not know that there was
trauma as an infant, you know, separated at Birth.
So yeah, I'm out. I would like to go back to
sometimes. I look at pictures and I think I
could go back and look. I've heard a lot of fun.
No I wouldn't. Yeah I know.
We do say that though. So you mentioned therapy.
Is there any other things that you've found that have helped
you deal with a trauma? Yeah I have a good therapist.
She's really good. She's adopting competent.
I would say she's not an adoptee but she really knows her stuff.
That's great, the adoptee community on Facebook.
I think is amazing. I did just recently meet up with
an adoptees connect group in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
It's not in my state but I'm close enough.
And so going monthly to just be with other adoptees is awesome.
I have done a writers, you know, adoptee writer group with an
Peck. Yes and then I did a retreat
with an Heffron. Well yeah and it was on Zoom.
I would love. Of to do an in-person Retreat?
Yeah, it's going to be a goal for maybe next year to just try
to get that slated because it was amazing.
Even on Zoom, just having the connection and, and talking to
adoptees. And that just brings a lot of
comfort to me to know you're not alone.
Yeah, it does. So, if you could give any advice
to other struggling, adoptees, anything else that you would
tell them, I would tell them to really not ignore it, you know,
not think that That you're crazy or it's unnatural to have these
feelings. I have a nephew who kind of had
some struggling a few years ago and he called me and you know, I
said, I totally understand and then he got so concerned because
he goes, I'm only 19. What am I going to be?
Like, when I'm 50 and I said, oh my gosh, you're going to be
amazing when you're 50 because you're dealing with it at 19.
All right, you know? So I think you need to deal with
it. You need to get a good group of
Port around you. My best friend from high school?
She is amazing. She listens to all the podcasts
that I send her way and she always has questions and she
Belize, you know, it's just have someone.
You can lean on, to say, do you need to talk?
Are you doing okay? Because I feel like adoptees a
lot of times. Keep it all to themselves.
Yeah. And you can from the outside
look like you are 100% put together but on the inside,
you're crying yourself to sleep at night because of just the
emotions that you're dealing. With and there's just such I
guess they seem like they come from nowhere and it's hard for
people to understand that you could be happy in your life with
your family. You could be happy that you've
met your biological family, your adopted family could be great to
but yet you're struggling and sad and that's okay.
But get help, get support, don't do it on your own.
Yeah. When you said your best friend,
would you know, give you questions?
That's big because when you bring it up, you know, you might
be distracting up a conversation somewhere with somebody and then
You get into a conversation and you're like well I was adopted,
you know, some situation where you kind of have to go, I was
adopted so you know and it's so funny how the conversation the
whole vibe of it turns like right, you know, it's like oh
we're not supposed to talk about this.
Yeah, you know, and so recently, I was at a family event and my
cousin's wife, I was talking to her and I said you know I was
adopted right her eyes got all big and she was like she was
shook her head. Yeah but I was thinking no, you
did. You didn't know and then I got
all awkward for a second and then she was like, then she
started asking me questions and she was like, I'm so she kept
apologizing. I'm like no it's fine.
Like we want to talk about it's everybody else.
It doesn't want to talk about it.
We're fine. You know because you kept like
I'm so sorry, I'm being nosy. What about this?
What about that and I was like no it's fine.
Yeah. But yeah it's funny how the
whole tone will just turn like when you say you're adopted like
right, I'm sorry and people even apologize.
It's like for what are you Exactly.
But yeah, it is it's so great to have someone who was there like
cuz she was like, how have you been doing?
I'm like, you know, I've been struggling a little bit lately
and she was, you happened. Why did you tell me?
You know, I just didn't. She was, do you want to get
together and talk? And I said, yeah, I would like
that. So, you know, we're planning a
time where we can go and sit down and have coffee and talk,
but she'll be the one to like sit and listen, which is just
and sometimes you need that outside the adoptee community
because we feel so great. In the adoptee community we have
a Commonality and share so many experiences that are similar but
to bring that sometimes to the outside where people aren't
adapted to someone to sit there and genuinely care is also a
really great feeling. Yeah.
And to have somebody that I think they feel like they need
to help or fix or like give you some advice or something and
it's like, that's not what we need.
We just need to be validated, right?
I just need to be validated and heard, that's it.
You don't have to do anything else.
Glee. Exactly.
That's the biggest validation is so important.
So I agree. I have to say, I have been
meeting the most amazing people lately on my interviews.
Unfortunately, we don't live close so I can't meet any of
these people in person. Dang, I would love to meet some
of you guys. But Amy's story is the perfect
example of some of the hurtful things that can happen when you
are in adopt D, disappointment from your adoptive family, And
rejections from your biological family in different ways.
I mean, even her birth mother, not telling her, that she was 45
minutes away. That is hurtful and makes you
feel like what happens, what did I do wrong?
Why didn't you tell me? Why was I not invited many
times? The adoptee feels like the one
in the middle that has to balance.
Everyone else's feelings and emotions and at some Point you
just get so tired. And you just have to be true to
yourself. Relinquishment was not our fault
and whatever traumas came with, it was not our fault.
But what is our responsibility is healing from these traumas?
And I asked this question a lot on the podcast and I ask people,
do you think that you can heal Adoption trauma.
And I get a variety of answers, but I would say 80% of the time,
the answer is, no, I do not believe that you can heal from
relinquishment trauma. And to be honest, for a long
time, I have not known what side of the fence that I felt I was
on when confronted with that same question.
But something happened to me yesterday that we are going to
talk about on the next. The sewed of mind.
Your own Karma that has made me decide which side of the fence
that I am on, on this subject. So, if you are all curious about
what happened to me to make me decide tune in next week.
Thanks again. Amy for coming on the show today
and helping me educate the world as always, take what you need
and leave what you don't and always remember to mind your own
Karma. I'll see you next time.