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Hey there, it's Melissa Brunetti
and welcome to the Mind Your Own

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Karma podcast. 
Hey. 

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There, Karma crew, Thanks for 
listening in on another episode 

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of Mind Your Own, Karma, The 
Adoption Chronicles. 

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My guest today is someone that I
met through Fireside Adoptees, 

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the Facebook group for adoptees 
only, and her name is Nicole 

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Kaharik. 
Let me tell you a little bit 

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about Nicole. 
Nicole is a domestic transracial

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adoptee, born and raised in 
Cleveland, OH. 

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She grew up knowing she was 
adopted. 

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Her father, a decorated Marine 
turned Catholic priest, adopted 

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her after she had been left with
him when she was three years 

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old. 
Mother's Day has always been 

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particularly difficult for 
Nicole, despite being a mother 

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herself, having been raised by a
single father. 

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It defined the fact that she did
not fit in. 

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Early in her marketing career, 
Nicole joined the adoption 

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community through volunteer work
with Adoption Network Cleveland,

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a nonprofit that supports 
everyone touched by adoption. 

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After serving on the Special 
Events Committee, Nicole was 

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asked to join the Board of 
Directors. 

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Through this work, she accepted 
adoption as a complex, lifelong 

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intergenerational journey with 
ongoing impact for all whose 

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lives are touched by it. 
This epiphany helped her realize

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her feelings of pain, confusion,
and self doubt were a natural 

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part of the adoptee journey and 
inspired her to dive into the 

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work of healing. 
Nicole spent years on what she 

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calls her journey of self 
discovery, working to understand

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how being abandoned and adopted 
shaped her thought patterns, 

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decisions and relationships. 
This journey inspired her to 

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share her truth to validate and 
uplift her fellow adoptees. 

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In 20/19, she launched her blog 
and social media platforms, The 

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Adoptee and Me a place to share 
the journey of self discovery. 

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Since then, Nicole has shared 
her lessons learned about 

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identity, change, loss and love,
aiming to inspire adoptees to 

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embrace their inner adoptee and 
build healing connections. 

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Since 2021, Nicole has served as
a member of the Fireside 

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Adoptees Leadership team, where 
she leverages her 20 plus years 

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of marketing and communications 
expertise to help guide the 

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organization's mission and 
evolution in service to adoptees

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at every stage of their journey.
A few years ago, Nicole embarked

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on a new chapter of her adoptee 
journey to find the mother who 

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left her behind at the age of 
three. 

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The search began with her 
original birth certificate, 

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involved multiple third party 
organizations, and lasted much 

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longer than anticipated. 
This latest chapter of her 

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adoptee journey inspires Nicole 
to share her story about the 

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emotional. 
Roller coaster of search, self 

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discovery, loss and hope. 
Here is my interview with Nicole

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Koharik. 
So we are welcoming Nicole to 

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the show today. 
I'm so excited. 

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We've been trying to get you on 
the show for a long time. 

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If you're finally here, so I'm 
happy to invite you on the show.

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Thanks for having me, Melissa. 
It's it's so exciting to be here

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and I'm excited for our 
conversation. 

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Yeah, Nicole and I met through 
Fireside Adoptees, which I 

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mentioned a ton on the show here
and do not know your story. 

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So this is going to be fun. 
So we're going to just jump 

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right in here. 
There's so much I want to talk 

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about. 
So let's just start with what 

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were the circumstances? 
What do you know about your 

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adoption? 
Well, such a loaded question 

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because there's what I thought I
knew, what I grew up with and 

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that information, and then 
there's the recent information 

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from the last few years of the 
search experience. 

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So that's kind of where I am on 
my journey, is working through 

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the realities of the new 
information. 

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I found out recently. 
What I can tell you is that when

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I was very young, I always knew 
I was adopted. 

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And my father, my adopted 
father, actually adopted. 

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Me as a single parent. 
So I was raised by an amazing 

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single dad, and he told me what 
I knew of my story when I was 

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very young was that your mother 
left you with me to babysit one 

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day and never returned. 
And that is the mystery that I 

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grew up thinking about on almost
a daily basis. 

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Where did she go? 
Who is my mother? 

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What happened? 
Why did she leave me with him? 

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So it's been definitely an 
interesting journey and I think 

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that that's when I think about 
being adopted. 

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It's definitely a lifelong 
journey. 

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And when I started viewing it 
that way, it brought me more 

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peace because I know that it's 
going to continue. 

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And even though, you know, I 
learned a lot recently, there's 

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always going to be a next phase.
So it's always changing. 

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It always does seem like there's
three stories. 

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Or like the edited version of 
the parts. 

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And then what really happened, 
Right? 

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Exactly. 
That may be true, but the detail

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of the why. 
Like one of the things that I 

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thought about a lot through my 
childhood was what's her story, 

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you know? 
And for a long time I didn't 

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want to search because I didn't 
want to disrupt my world. 

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But I ended up actually doing 
that a few years ago, and I'm 

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glad I did. 
Yeah. 

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Even my side of the story isn't 
totally accurate, but it's my 

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perception of what happened. 
So that's my reality and my 

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truth. 
And I don't think that's a 

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wrong. 
That's a wrong thing, you know? 

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I love that. 
I think that is one of the keys 

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of being adapted and coping with
it is realizing that it's all 

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about your truth, and that's up 
to you to understand and to 

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define. 
And knowing that is something 

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that brings me a lot of peace 
now. 

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Yeah. 
So you said you always knew you 

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were adopted and so you just 
grew up with one father. 

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And so how do you see adoption 
affecting you growing up, being 

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adopted even into the teen years
looking back? 

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Because I'm sure at the time you
don't even realize, but. 

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Yeah, well, it was kind of one 
I. 

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I had to know because I always 
felt out of place. 

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So I'm a transracial adaptee. 
I didn't find that out with data

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until recently in doing my DNA. 
But I never looked like anyone. 

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I didn't look like my father. 
I didn't look like anyone at 

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school, in my family, in my 
community even. 

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And I didn't see any diversity 
until college. 

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And that is actually ironically,
or maybe not so erratically, 

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when I started to feel like I 
was starting to discover who I 

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really am. 
You know, we talk about identity

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challenges with adoptees, and I 
definitely face that. 

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And being a child really felt 
kind of like an alien. 

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I knew I was loved, but I never 
felt like I really belonged 

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anywhere. 
Right. 

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So growing up, getting into 
romantic relationships because 

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of a lot of adoptees have 
trouble attaching with 

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attachment issues. 
Did you see that playing out at 

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all in relation to romantic 
relationships? 

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It's interesting. 
I saw challenges with romantic 

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relationships, but definitely 
not attachment issues. 

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Almost the opposite. 
I would probably, I'd say 

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attached a little bit too much. 
There's a funny story about one 

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that I wrote about in my blog. 
When I was younger that I was 

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reflecting back and realizing 
once you come out of the fog you

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realize all of these things that
have happened have somehow 

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connecting back to your adoption
trauma. 

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And this is one that I've told 
on Fireside before and I think 

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it's all about my abandonment 
issues. 

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I literally chased this poor boy
who was supposed to be my 

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boyfriend in 3rd grade around 
the playground, asking him 

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because I heard a rumor that he 
liked Monica. 

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And I chased him around and said
me or Monica, Me or Monica. 

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Like I was a very shy child. 
But as soon as I thought my 

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relationship in the third grade 
was at risk, I was like, I need 

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a decision. 
So I was very territorial. 

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And I was actually that way with
my father too. 

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He told me he tried to date and 
that I would insert myself 

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between him and his. 
So you know that security was 

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really, really important to me 
and I actually ended up, I'd say

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the opposite of having 
attachment issues. 

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I attached a little too much and
probably had some control issues

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too because I didn't want to 
lose anyone ever again. 

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Yeah, right. 
So how was it growing up with 

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your dad? 
Good. 

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It was a good experience. 
You know, my father is an 

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amazing person and I know it's 
we talk a lot in adoptee circles

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about, you know, being grateful 
and how terrible that is. 

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I think it's terrible when 
someone projects that on to us 

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if they say. 
You know, you should be 

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grateful. 
No one should ever project how 

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someone should feel for their 
lived experience. 

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But I will say that I am 
grateful for my father. 

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He's an amazing man. 
He has a great story. 

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He was a American hero in 
Vietnam and Purple Heart 

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veteran. 
I have all his medals and he 

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loved me unconditionally. 
He still does. 

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He's been my rock. 
He is my first teacher, my first

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love. 
He taught me to believe in 

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myself before I did, way before 
I did. 

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And I he was amazing. 
So I was fortunate in that way. 

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But I still had that deep down 
pain that his love wasn't 

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enough. 
No, no. 

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That's one of my key messages. 
No adoptive parents. 

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Love is enough to heal those 
wounds. 

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Yeah, and I learned that. 
First hand, because I was loved 

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and I had a great experience 
with him. 

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But I still felt that pain. 
I still felt like an alien. 

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I still felt like I didn't 
belong. 

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And so I know I'm proof that I 
love isn't enough to heal that 

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wound. 
Yeah, It doesn't matter how much

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they try, how much that adoptive
parent tries. 

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There's nothing they can do. 
And it's not anything that they 

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necessarily did wrong or right 
or anything like that. 

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It's just there and it's going 
to be there, you know? 

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Exactly, exactly. 
And it's important for adoptive 

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parents to know that, Yeah, 
because I I want them to try. 

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I want them to to love their 
their children unconditionally 

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and be that support that they 
need and, you know, be their 

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self-confidence when they don't 
have any. 

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But at the same time, they can't
think that that's going to be 

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enough. 
And they have to create that 

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space to really let the adoptee 
explore their feelings and ask 

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questions and have those 
uncomfortable conversations. 

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Yeah, I think there is a ton of 
education needed for the 

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adoptive parents because they 
have no clue what they're really

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getting into or how to really 
help that child adjust exactly. 

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Not a puppy. 
You know exactly. 

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I don't understand why. 
And you know some kind of 

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mandatory training or classes 
are required. 

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I think you know, when I think 
about advocacy work, that's what

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I want to see. 
It's so important and that would

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make such a difference. 
Right. 

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So did you have any siblings 
growing up? 

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I did not. 
I was a spoiled only child. 

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And by spoiled I don't mean with
material goods. 

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I actually joined Toastmasters 
early in my career because I was

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like I said, I was very shy 
child didn't feel like I 

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belonged anywhere. 
So I was quiet and kind of 

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observed everything and and kept
my mouth shut unless I was in a 

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comfortable space. 
But I joined Toastmasters 

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because my career depended on it
and I knew I had to do 

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presentation. 
That is terrifying. 

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Oh my gosh, it. 
Was master. 

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Terrifying. 
But I threw myself into it 

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because I knew that it would 
make me better. 

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Yeah. 
And it was a safe space to mess 

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up and to have people count your
arms and, you know, give you 

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that feedback that you don't get
otherwise. 

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So I did it, and I'm glad I did 
it. 

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Yeah. 
And I kind of have a history of 

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throwing myself in the deep end 
to learn and grow. 

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But growth is a personal value 
of mine. 

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So that's important. 
But when I joined Toastmasters, 

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I had to give an icebreaker 
speech about myself. 

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And this is way before I, you 
know, was really out of the fog.

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And I said that I was an only 
child. 

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And I I was a spoiled only 
child. 

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And I said, but I wasn't spoiled
by material things. 

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I was spoiled by love. 
And my adopted family was more 

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like a fan club than a family, 
because they were very, you 

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know, my, my dad and his sister 
and my aunts and uncles and 

230
00:13:15,110 --> 00:13:18,110
cousins were all. 
Super supportive of me. 

231
00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:22,190
So that definitely made a 
difference. 

232
00:13:22,310 --> 00:13:24,830
But like we said, it doesn't 
change. 

233
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:26,630
And that's the part of my story 
I wasn't telling. 

234
00:13:26,630 --> 00:13:28,910
I was only telling the happy 
part in the beginning. 

235
00:13:29,990 --> 00:13:33,830
And now I'm at that point where 
I'm very in touch with who I am,

236
00:13:34,150 --> 00:13:38,230
my truth, my pain, my journey, 
my transformation. 

237
00:13:38,230 --> 00:13:41,590
And I want to share that story 
to help other people, you know, 

238
00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:43,630
get to that next step, wherever 
they are. 

239
00:13:44,210 --> 00:13:46,490
So what did happen? 
You said in college you kind of 

240
00:13:46,490 --> 00:13:49,690
started finding, you know, 
yourself and exploring. 

241
00:13:49,690 --> 00:13:52,370
And is that the point where you 
kind of were starting to think 

242
00:13:52,370 --> 00:13:58,290
about your biological family or?
In college, I would say I was 

243
00:13:58,290 --> 00:14:00,170
kind of independent for the 
first time. 

244
00:14:00,650 --> 00:14:04,530
I went away to school, but not 
far right. 

245
00:14:04,530 --> 00:14:08,450
So I I'm from Cleveland, OH, and
I went to. 

246
00:14:08,730 --> 00:14:12,410
I stayed in state for college, 
but I went away and stayed at 

247
00:14:12,410 --> 00:14:14,810
the dorm. 
And, you know, I was kind of a 

248
00:14:14,810 --> 00:14:20,370
homebody and I liked my safety 
net and my dad and my aunt, his 

249
00:14:20,650 --> 00:14:24,690
his sister, who was a big 
influence in my life, both said,

250
00:14:24,810 --> 00:14:27,250
you know what, you need to grow 
up and be independent. 

251
00:14:27,250 --> 00:14:31,160
So you're going to stay? 
At the dorm and you can come 

252
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,200
home on weekends And I was like,
what? 

253
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,080
You're like Velcro or killing 
Velcro. 

254
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,640
Yes. 
And I was like, wait, this is my

255
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,400
safety net. 
It's scary out there, but I'm 

256
00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,160
glad they did that because I 
learned so much. 

257
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,440
And I I learned I grew, I 
failed. 

258
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:52,400
And I actually, it's interesting
because my career is in 

259
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,360
marketing and communications, 
but I was undecided for a very 

260
00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:01,560
long time my first year. 
And I found a mentor. 

261
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,680
And again, reflecting back, 
thinking about my adoption and 

262
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,800
how that's affected almost 
everything. 

263
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:14,040
And I was looking for strong 
female mentors and people to 

264
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,720
guide me in life because I 
didn't have that. 

265
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:21,160
I didn't have anyone to call 
mother, and I was always missing

266
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,360
that. 
So this professor, Dr. Plude, I 

267
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,440
was so impressed by her. 
She had a Harvard pH. 

268
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,400
D. 
And she was my mass 

269
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,600
communication professor, You 
know, I was taking like basic 

270
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,080
courses, exploring things. 
And I went to her one day and I 

271
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,760
said, Dr. Plude, I don't know 
what I want to do. 

272
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:45,120
You know, I need a major and I'm
undecided and I want a career, 

273
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:46,320
and I don't know what I want to 
do. 

274
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,200
And she helped me so much. 
She said, you know what? 

275
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,840
Let's not think about the 
decision because that's 

276
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:55,920
obviously weighing heavy on you.
I need a direction. 

277
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,780
I need a direction. 
Let's think about what you like 

278
00:15:58,780 --> 00:16:01,940
to do, she said. 
Take the course catalog, look at

279
00:16:01,940 --> 00:16:05,740
kind of the the options. 
Come back to me, tell me what 

280
00:16:05,740 --> 00:16:08,380
you're attracted to, what you're
interested in, and then we'll 

281
00:16:08,380 --> 00:16:11,500
talk about it. 
And it worked out great. 

282
00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:15,180
I went back to her, I showed her
the classes I was interested in 

283
00:16:15,180 --> 00:16:18,660
and she said, you know what? 
We just finalized a new major 

284
00:16:18,660 --> 00:16:20,700
called Applied Communication 
today. 

285
00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:24,320
They call it public relations. 
And she said everything that you

286
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:28,240
picked aligns with that major. 
So I think that's your, that's 

287
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,360
your North Star, that's what 
you're meant to do. 

288
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,560
And it is. 
And I love my career. 

289
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,120
So that moment was very 
empowering for me for the first 

290
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,000
time, kind of know what I want 
to do with my life. 

291
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,400
But it took, I'd say, even 
longer than that to really 

292
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,600
realize my identity, because at 
that point I was like, OK, I'm a

293
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,400
communications person, you know?
So I would define myself based 

294
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,890
on the things that I did. 
And not who I was. 

295
00:16:54,890 --> 00:16:59,850
And that took a lot more 
exploration and self discovery. 

296
00:16:59,970 --> 00:17:04,089
And I took myself on that 
journey because I felt like I 

297
00:17:04,089 --> 00:17:07,490
needed to know and it was a gap.
So when did that journey start 

298
00:17:07,490 --> 00:17:09,530
do you think is was there 
something that triggered it? 

299
00:17:11,220 --> 00:17:13,220
That's a good question. 
I'm not sure. 

300
00:17:13,220 --> 00:17:18,380
I just know that I would be in 
conversations as an adult with 

301
00:17:18,380 --> 00:17:21,579
people and people would be 
talking about, oh, I like this 

302
00:17:21,579 --> 00:17:25,380
and this is my preference and 
all these people had these 

303
00:17:26,220 --> 00:17:31,950
preferences and experiences and.
Seemed very grounded in in who 

304
00:17:31,950 --> 00:17:35,590
they were and when I would 
reflect, I've always been very 

305
00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:37,590
reflective. 
I'd reflect on the same 

306
00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:39,910
questions when I was alone. 
I realized I didn't have 

307
00:17:39,910 --> 00:17:42,990
answers. 
So I said, well, this isn't 

308
00:17:43,030 --> 00:17:46,270
right. 
And I knew that the reason I 

309
00:17:46,270 --> 00:17:48,830
didn't have answers is because I
didn't know where I came from. 

310
00:17:49,190 --> 00:17:52,150
I still, I think, was in the fog
at that point, but I knew that 

311
00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:55,590
something was missing. 
And then I sat down and I said, 

312
00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:57,390
OK, what are your favorite 
things? 

313
00:17:57,390 --> 00:17:59,470
What do you like? 
What makes you happy? 

314
00:17:59,910 --> 00:18:04,350
And a lot of that work actually 
was triggered by a major life 

315
00:18:04,350 --> 00:18:09,910
event, and that was my divorce. 
When I found myself kind of 

316
00:18:09,910 --> 00:18:14,390
rebuilding myself, I was trying 
to think about, well, what what 

317
00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:17,550
would make me happy and what do 
I need in life? 

318
00:18:17,550 --> 00:18:21,930
And I didn't really know. 
So the work of recovering from 

319
00:18:21,930 --> 00:18:25,770
divorce actually helps with my 
adopted journey as well. 

320
00:18:26,090 --> 00:18:29,650
Yeah, and the similar story. 
So what helped you? 

321
00:18:30,450 --> 00:18:34,850
What helped me back then was 
myself work and myself 

322
00:18:34,850 --> 00:18:38,570
reflection and I purposely 
created space to self reflect 

323
00:18:38,570 --> 00:18:42,370
and I ended up doing that 
through writing. 

324
00:18:42,930 --> 00:18:47,130
And it's interesting because I 
launched my blog in 2019. 

325
00:18:47,670 --> 00:18:52,550
But I had been kind of 
reflecting on these questions 

326
00:18:52,550 --> 00:18:56,390
and writing for myself to 
process. 

327
00:18:56,550 --> 00:19:01,350
Who am I and what do I care 
about and what are my values and

328
00:19:01,470 --> 00:19:05,630
what matters to me? 
Really big questions for a long 

329
00:19:05,630 --> 00:19:08,390
time before then. 
And I've always loved the 

330
00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:12,190
creative process of of writing 
and it's interesting because. 

331
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,600
It helps me not only get 
clarity, but also process my 

332
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:22,320
feelings about being adopted. 
And I will tell you, my husband 

333
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,280
jokes about it because he calls 
it dark poetry, but in the 

334
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,440
darkest moments when I was 
really wondering about my mother

335
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,440
and where she was and who she 
was and if she was still alive. 

336
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,360
I would just write. 
I would write about her. 

337
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:40,720
I would write about my feelings.
I would get emotional, but I 

338
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,920
would get it out and I would get
it on paper. 

339
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,480
And it was really empowering. 
And that's why I started writing

340
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,280
my story more publicly, because 
I realized it was healing for 

341
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,520
me. 
And then eventually I realized 

342
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,000
that it was helping others too, 
who had similar feelings. 

343
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,080
Yeah. 
So you were when you're going 

344
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,900
through this process? 
Did you realize you were coming 

345
00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:06,260
out of the fog at that time? 
I mean, did you even know what 

346
00:20:06,260 --> 00:20:08,620
the term the fog at that time 
were you in the adoptee 

347
00:20:08,620 --> 00:20:12,020
community? 
You know what's interesting is I

348
00:20:12,020 --> 00:20:14,890
first. 
Entered the adoptee community 

349
00:20:15,050 --> 00:20:19,450
literally in in person, not 
online, early in my career 

350
00:20:19,450 --> 00:20:23,250
because I was a volunteer for a 
local organization called 

351
00:20:23,250 --> 00:20:26,370
Adoption Network Cleveland that 
supports everyone touched by 

352
00:20:26,370 --> 00:20:30,250
adoption, and I was doing that 
as part of my career. 

353
00:20:30,250 --> 00:20:34,050
I wanted to give back to my 
community, I wanted to get 

354
00:20:34,050 --> 00:20:39,290
experience, and I wanted to make
an impact, a positive impact. 

355
00:20:39,290 --> 00:20:42,130
That's just who I am. 
So I. 

356
00:20:42,540 --> 00:20:45,180
Again, with self reflecting, 
well, how can I give back to my 

357
00:20:45,180 --> 00:20:46,940
community? 
I'm like, well I'm adopted, I 

358
00:20:46,940 --> 00:20:49,780
can help this organization. 
So I was definitely still very 

359
00:20:49,780 --> 00:20:52,980
much in the fog at that time. 
But then, through the process of

360
00:20:52,980 --> 00:20:56,660
engaging with other people who 
were touched by adoption, both 

361
00:20:56,660 --> 00:21:01,020
adoptees adopted parents and 
birth parents, I definitely 

362
00:21:01,020 --> 00:21:04,020
started to come out of the fog 
through all of that interaction,

363
00:21:04,020 --> 00:21:07,940
and I started out on the Special
Events committee. 

364
00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:11,310
As a volunteer and I was so 
passionate about the 

365
00:21:11,310 --> 00:21:15,870
organization and loved the work 
and the people that I didn't 

366
00:21:15,870 --> 00:21:19,830
realize that I was starting a 
healing process by being around 

367
00:21:19,830 --> 00:21:23,030
others for the first time who 
had feelings like mine. 

368
00:21:23,430 --> 00:21:25,590
That's why I was so connected to
the work. 

369
00:21:25,630 --> 00:21:29,350
I was asked by the executive 
director, I was asked to join 

370
00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:33,350
the board and that led me even 
deeper into. 

371
00:21:34,090 --> 00:21:39,170
This realization of, wow, we are
here to help people like me, and

372
00:21:39,170 --> 00:21:44,450
I didn't realize I had a 
problem, You know, kind of 

373
00:21:44,450 --> 00:21:48,010
ironic. 
But I'm grateful for that 

374
00:21:48,290 --> 00:21:51,810
experience because I think I 
probably would have stayed in 

375
00:21:51,810 --> 00:21:54,450
the fog much longer had I not 
had that experience. 

376
00:21:54,810 --> 00:21:58,810
And I would never be where I am 
today on this journey and 

377
00:21:58,810 --> 00:22:00,730
feeling the peace that I have 
now. 

378
00:22:01,050 --> 00:22:04,650
If that didn't happen when it 
did in my life and and it took a

379
00:22:04,650 --> 00:22:08,450
long time after that even to get
to this point, but that was a 

380
00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:11,610
definitely a major inflection 
point on this journey. 

381
00:22:11,850 --> 00:22:15,870
Yeah, I think for me, just, you 
know, I thought, oh, there's 

382
00:22:15,870 --> 00:22:17,350
these adoptee groups on 
Facebook. 

383
00:22:17,470 --> 00:22:20,590
I never thought about joining, 
you know, if that'd be fun, you 

384
00:22:20,590 --> 00:22:24,670
know, So I get on there. 
And I was just like, what is 

385
00:22:24,670 --> 00:22:28,310
happening, You know, I was just 
so shocked. 

386
00:22:28,430 --> 00:22:31,430
And it wasn't that. 
I didn't realize that some of 

387
00:22:31,430 --> 00:22:34,270
that was going on. 
I didn't feel the permission to 

388
00:22:34,270 --> 00:22:38,710
feel it until I went on these 
groups and I was like, wait a 

389
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:40,710
minute, we can say that, You 
know? 

390
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:43,060
We can. 
Like we're not supposed to say 

391
00:22:43,060 --> 00:22:46,620
that, you know, or whatever. 
And it just gave me the 

392
00:22:46,620 --> 00:22:48,540
permission, even though I knew 
it was there. 

393
00:22:48,540 --> 00:22:51,940
It gave me the permission to be 
like me too, you know? 

394
00:22:51,940 --> 00:22:53,100
I love that. 
Yeah. 

395
00:22:53,340 --> 00:22:55,140
Mission. 
That's exactly right. 

396
00:22:55,220 --> 00:22:57,340
I I can relate to that for sure,
yeah. 

397
00:22:57,340 --> 00:23:00,140
How did you feel? 
I knew there were like, I had 

398
00:23:00,140 --> 00:23:02,140
feelings of, you know, 
uneasiness. 

399
00:23:02,140 --> 00:23:07,300
But I didn't know until I was 
immersed in the local adoption 

400
00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:11,220
community that those feelings 
were connected to being adopted.

401
00:23:11,220 --> 00:23:15,500
That was. 
The epiphany, I was like, whoa. 

402
00:23:16,260 --> 00:23:18,340
And I think that pushed me out 
of the fog. 

403
00:23:18,340 --> 00:23:22,300
But I heard other people's 
coming out of the fog stories, 

404
00:23:22,780 --> 00:23:28,110
and I have to say it wasn't a. 
Bad experience for me. 

405
00:23:28,110 --> 00:23:32,310
It wasn't painful. 
It was more of a relief because 

406
00:23:32,310 --> 00:23:33,990
I had these feelings that I 
recognized. 

407
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:36,150
I just didn't know where they 
were coming from. 

408
00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:39,030
And now I had the answers. 
I knew where they were coming 

409
00:23:39,030 --> 00:23:41,230
from. 
And I knew that I had trauma and

410
00:23:41,230 --> 00:23:44,670
abandonment issues and loss. 
And I was like, well, no wonder,

411
00:23:44,830 --> 00:23:49,710
you know, And I suddenly felt OK
and better about who I am in 

412
00:23:49,710 --> 00:23:52,750
myself. 
And I didn't feel shame anymore.

413
00:23:52,750 --> 00:23:56,150
And I think that is a, you know,
a major stigma of being adopted.

414
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:59,910
That shame Some people don't, 
even as adults tell other 

415
00:23:59,910 --> 00:24:01,470
people. 
And I've been around. 

416
00:24:01,630 --> 00:24:05,190
I'm very loud and proud, 
obviously, but I wish everyone 

417
00:24:05,190 --> 00:24:07,310
could experience that. 
And that's another reason I tell

418
00:24:07,310 --> 00:24:10,190
my story, is because I love our 
adoptee community and the 

419
00:24:10,190 --> 00:24:12,230
support that we have. 
But I want to reach the people 

420
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:15,990
who are in the fog to help them 
realize, you know what, It's OK.

421
00:24:16,110 --> 00:24:18,190
It's OK to feel that way. 
It's normal. 

422
00:24:18,190 --> 00:24:19,790
And guess what? 
You're not alone. 

423
00:24:20,230 --> 00:24:22,790
Right, exactly. 
So how did you feel? 

424
00:24:22,990 --> 00:24:25,990
Maybe you felt it in that group 
in Cleveland from the beginning,

425
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:29,470
but for me, like I said, coming 
on social media, it was like 

426
00:24:29,470 --> 00:24:31,830
hitting a wall. 
I had no idea the trauma that 

427
00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:33,710
was out there. 
How did you feel? 

428
00:24:33,710 --> 00:24:35,310
Yeah. 
Absolutely. 

429
00:24:35,310 --> 00:24:38,840
That was very eye opening. 
Very eye opening for me, 

430
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,760
especially because I was 
thinking about my experience 

431
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,520
growing up with a very 
supportive adoptive father. 

432
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:49,920
And then I was hearing all these
stories about very terrible, 

433
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,840
terrible situations with abuse 
and neglect and the adoptive 

434
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,760
parents and the narcissism and 
oh, it just broke my heart. 

435
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,280
And it still does. 
And that's why, you know, 

436
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,960
communities like Fireside are so
important because I want to be 

437
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,950
there for. 
Everyone who's still hurting and

438
00:25:08,950 --> 00:25:12,310
we all have some pain, but Oh my
gosh, so many people, so many 

439
00:25:12,310 --> 00:25:17,070
adoptees are suffering and it 
breaks my heart and they need 

440
00:25:17,070 --> 00:25:19,870
support and that's so important 
to me. 

441
00:25:19,870 --> 00:25:23,990
I wish every adoptee had a 
support network and knew that 

442
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:27,070
they were not alone. 
My podcast was totally something

443
00:25:27,070 --> 00:25:30,670
different when I started and 
then I may be two months in. 

444
00:25:30,790 --> 00:25:34,680
After joining these groups, I 
was like have to pivot my entire

445
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,080
podcast. 
Now I have to do this. 

446
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,040
It was just, it was meant to be.
It really was meant to be. 

447
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,680
But it did. 
It impacted me that much to 

448
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,480
where I just absolutely I'm 
turning, I'm doing, I'm going 

449
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,480
doing something different. 
Well, thank you for doing that, 

450
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,800
because it's so important for 
adoptees to have a place, to 

451
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,560
have a voice. 
So many feel unheard and unseen,

452
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,800
and you're helping in a way 
that's going to make a 

453
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,360
difference in many lives. 
So thank you. 

454
00:26:03,330 --> 00:26:05,850
Yeah, now's the time. 
You know, we're rising up. 

455
00:26:05,930 --> 00:26:09,050
I mean, everybody, the whole 
constellation is getting 

456
00:26:09,050 --> 00:26:11,090
involved in the movement, which 
is so great. 

457
00:26:11,090 --> 00:26:14,530
I mean, even adoptive parents 
and even hearing the birth 

458
00:26:14,530 --> 00:26:17,730
mothers stories, I've had a few 
birth mothers on the show and it

459
00:26:17,730 --> 00:26:19,650
just gives me so much 
compassion. 

460
00:26:19,650 --> 00:26:24,410
I can't imagine walking away 
from your baby not knowing who 

461
00:26:24,410 --> 00:26:26,930
is going to raise them, thinking
you're giving them a better 

462
00:26:26,930 --> 00:26:28,450
life. 
That's what they're told, you 

463
00:26:28,450 --> 00:26:33,050
know, And just walking away, I 
can't imagine, I can't imagine 

464
00:26:33,050 --> 00:26:35,010
that the trauma that that would 
cause. 

465
00:26:35,010 --> 00:26:40,050
I know, and I have to say, 
hearing the stories of birth 

466
00:26:40,050 --> 00:26:47,170
mothers and the community and 
seeing my original birth 

467
00:26:47,170 --> 00:26:51,930
certificate and realizing, you 
know, my mother was young and 

468
00:26:51,930 --> 00:26:56,130
not from the state and had me as
a teenager in this state but was

469
00:26:56,130 --> 00:26:59,490
from another state, I quickly 
connected the dots before. 

470
00:26:59,570 --> 00:27:03,610
Where I searched and and had it 
just gave me so much empathy for

471
00:27:03,610 --> 00:27:08,650
her, My anger and my frustration
and all the dark poetry I wrote.

472
00:27:09,170 --> 00:27:13,170
Just suddenly all of that 
heaviness just lifted and I was 

473
00:27:13,170 --> 00:27:16,730
like, wow, I knew something had 
to be wrong. 

474
00:27:16,730 --> 00:27:22,050
I knew that she, you know. 
Was going through it and gosh, 

475
00:27:22,930 --> 00:27:26,130
I'm so glad that I have that 
information and that I've heard 

476
00:27:26,130 --> 00:27:31,050
birth mother stories because now
I have so much empathy for birth

477
00:27:31,050 --> 00:27:32,410
mothers. 
It's really sad. 

478
00:27:32,410 --> 00:27:37,290
And society, just like adoptees,
does not view them well either. 

479
00:27:37,290 --> 00:27:40,410
And it's really sad because, 
yeah, they have their narrative 

480
00:27:40,410 --> 00:27:42,730
that they have to live by two. 
Yeah, they. 

481
00:27:43,050 --> 00:27:45,690
Did the best for your child. 
You did the right thing, blah 

482
00:27:45,690 --> 00:27:46,690
blah blah. 
You know, right. 

483
00:27:46,810 --> 00:27:49,170
All that narrative too. 
They have the same thing. 

484
00:27:49,650 --> 00:27:52,490
They have to carry that loss and
pain the rest of their lives. 

485
00:27:52,970 --> 00:27:57,010
Yeah, there's always a story 
behind the adoption, you know, 

486
00:27:57,290 --> 00:27:59,370
bleeding up to there's got to be
a story. 

487
00:27:59,610 --> 00:28:03,050
So I don't know if you want to 
share any of what you found out,

488
00:28:03,050 --> 00:28:05,490
whatever you're comfortable with
sharing, but I kind of want to 

489
00:28:05,490 --> 00:28:07,490
hear what happened. 
Oh, sure, yeah. 

490
00:28:07,490 --> 00:28:11,490
So oh gosh, it was a few years 
ago. 

491
00:28:11,490 --> 00:28:18,370
I woke up on a milestone 
birthday and suddenly had a 

492
00:28:18,370 --> 00:28:22,400
panic. 
I was reflecting on my life, as 

493
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,720
I usually do on my birthdays. 
And I sat up in bed and I said, 

494
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:31,200
Oh my gosh, I think it's like 
about my own mortality. 

495
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,320
But it hit me really hard and 
suddenly. 

496
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,960
And I said if I don't look now, 
I might never have this 

497
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,960
opportunity and I could die with
the regret that I never 

498
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,920
searched. 
And in that moment I said I have

499
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,320
to do this. 
It was. 

500
00:28:49,210 --> 00:28:54,130
It was wild and it was so 
overwhelming and it almost felt 

501
00:28:54,130 --> 00:28:57,570
like it wasn't just me thinking 
this. 

502
00:28:57,570 --> 00:29:01,410
It felt like it was inspired and
this was a calling. 

503
00:29:01,410 --> 00:29:07,370
I needed to do this for myself. 
And one thing I learned through 

504
00:29:07,370 --> 00:29:14,250
the search process is that I 
assumed, incorrectly, that, oh, 

505
00:29:14,250 --> 00:29:17,770
when I decide to search when I'm
ready, the information will be 

506
00:29:17,770 --> 00:29:20,460
there. 
And I learned that's not the 

507
00:29:20,460 --> 00:29:23,460
case. 
So it took multiple searches, 

508
00:29:23,460 --> 00:29:26,420
Three searches in fact, to 
finally find the information I 

509
00:29:26,420 --> 00:29:28,460
was seeking. 
And I still have a lot of 

510
00:29:28,460 --> 00:29:31,340
questions and some puzzle pieces
that are missing. 

511
00:29:31,940 --> 00:29:36,180
The first search uncovered some 
information about my birth 

512
00:29:36,180 --> 00:29:40,340
father and I found out he was 
local and I found out he was 

513
00:29:40,340 --> 00:29:44,740
African American and I found out
that he lived here in Cleveland,

514
00:29:45,020 --> 00:29:52,300
but not much more information. 
And then I continued to search 

515
00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:57,340
for my mother, because she was 
nowhere to be found and all of 

516
00:29:57,340 --> 00:30:01,740
the documentation that was 
uncomfort in my search was more 

517
00:30:01,740 --> 00:30:05,540
so about my my father. 
And there wasn't a lot. 

518
00:30:05,810 --> 00:30:12,290
So I actually proceeded through 
my relationships with Fireside. 

519
00:30:12,610 --> 00:30:17,650
I met a search Angel through 
Fireside who helps me connect 

520
00:30:17,650 --> 00:30:23,490
with DNA Angels, and I went to 
DNA Angels and I said I've done 

521
00:30:23,490 --> 00:30:26,570
the search process. 
I still can't find my mother. 

522
00:30:26,890 --> 00:30:28,650
I don't know if she's alive or 
dead. 

523
00:30:28,650 --> 00:30:30,970
This is information I was able 
to find. 

524
00:30:31,390 --> 00:30:35,190
I know she's from South Carolina
and I know, you know she was 

525
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:39,310
this age and this is her name 
and that's all I have and and a 

526
00:30:39,310 --> 00:30:41,150
little bit about some other 
relatives. 

527
00:30:41,670 --> 00:30:47,070
So I also did DNA and I that was
another let down. 

528
00:30:47,950 --> 00:30:52,470
I thought when you do DNA, oh 
the answers are just there and 

529
00:30:52,510 --> 00:30:55,110
if you have close family 
members, they'll want to talk to

530
00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:57,390
you. 
And it's not true either. 

531
00:30:58,790 --> 00:31:01,670
And then so I found a first 
cousin of my mother's and I was 

532
00:31:01,670 --> 00:31:04,030
thrilled. 
And I saw this is it, this is 

533
00:31:04,030 --> 00:31:07,270
this is this is what I needed 
and no response. 

534
00:31:08,430 --> 00:31:12,670
So then I found him on Facebook 
and no response. 

535
00:31:13,710 --> 00:31:17,550
And then eventually I kept 
trying. 

536
00:31:17,550 --> 00:31:23,310
He responded very cryptic 
answers, so so cryptic that I 

537
00:31:23,310 --> 00:31:25,750
couldn't even tell if she was 
alive or not. 

538
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:30,040
And at this point? 
What a roller coaster. 

539
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,240
I just could not believe. 
I cannot find this woman. 

540
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,360
I'm like, there's documentation.
There's, you know, all these 

541
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:39,720
records that should be out 
there. 

542
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,840
If she's dead, there has to be a
death certificate. 

543
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,240
What? 
What's going on? 

544
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,160
Why is she so elusive? 
And why is this family member 

545
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,560
acting this way? 
So then DNA Angels did the first

546
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,520
search and applied through the 
process. 

547
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,960
I highly recommend to any 
adoptees who were searching and 

548
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,520
especially like mine, have a 
tough case to crack. 

549
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:07,240
Go to DNA Angels. 
Yeah, well, I did that and they 

550
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,560
said they exhausted all their 
options. 

551
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,880
They found more information. 
I gave them all the information 

552
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,640
from the first search. 
They still couldn't find her. 

553
00:32:15,020 --> 00:32:17,340
So they closed my case. 
I was depressed. 

554
00:32:17,740 --> 00:32:22,860
I couldn't believe that. 
I finally decided to be brave 

555
00:32:22,860 --> 00:32:26,660
and to do this and to spend all 
this time and effort and energy 

556
00:32:26,660 --> 00:32:29,980
and emotional roller coaster and
still no clarity. 

557
00:32:31,100 --> 00:32:35,660
And then Kelly Grace from DNA 
Angels actually engaged with me 

558
00:32:35,660 --> 00:32:38,580
to interview me about my 
unsolved case, to write a blog 

559
00:32:38,580 --> 00:32:41,860
for DNA Angels. 
And she felt so bad for me. 

560
00:32:41,860 --> 00:32:42,820
She said. 
You know what? 

561
00:32:43,490 --> 00:32:45,690
We're gonna find your mother. 
She said her first name. 

562
00:32:46,530 --> 00:32:49,210
We're gonna find her. 
And I said what? 

563
00:32:49,530 --> 00:32:51,810
She said no, I'm serious. 
We're gonna find her. 

564
00:32:51,810 --> 00:32:55,290
And then a few days later, she 
sent me a Facebook Messenger 

565
00:32:55,290 --> 00:32:57,210
message and said I have a 
surprise for you. 

566
00:32:57,690 --> 00:33:02,410
And she reopened my case with 
six of her best angels. 

567
00:33:02,410 --> 00:33:06,330
Wow. 
And I could not believe it. 

568
00:33:06,330 --> 00:33:12,450
I was so touched and so, so 
happy that I had another shot 

569
00:33:12,450 --> 00:33:14,370
after I thought. 
It was time to give up. 

570
00:33:14,370 --> 00:33:17,850
I never wanted to give up, but I
think God opened the door 

571
00:33:18,330 --> 00:33:21,130
through Kelly. 
Literally my Angel. 

572
00:33:21,530 --> 00:33:25,330
And it worked. 
It took a while, but this new 

573
00:33:25,330 --> 00:33:27,970
search worked and they found her
information. 

574
00:33:27,970 --> 00:33:31,170
And I will never forget it was 
November of last year. 

575
00:33:31,910 --> 00:33:36,590
I was working and all of the 
communication is done through 

576
00:33:36,590 --> 00:33:38,350
Facebook Messenger with DNA 
Angels. 

577
00:33:38,350 --> 00:33:42,150
So you have a record of it and 
all the documents are there and 

578
00:33:42,150 --> 00:33:44,150
it's, you know, quick 
communication. 

579
00:33:44,390 --> 00:33:46,790
So I was, you know, always 
looking, always looking. 

580
00:33:46,950 --> 00:33:50,230
And I remember I was in a 
meeting at work about our new 

581
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:53,270
website and I got the the 
message. 

582
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,760
And I was trying not to look 
distracted, but it said, you 

583
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,720
know, we found her and I just 
lost it. 

584
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,920
I didn't have any information, 
but I just was in such disbelief

585
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:13,600
and so happy and so scared that 
I just my body got 10 degrees 

586
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,560
hotter and pass out. 
I had, I almost did. 

587
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,280
I had to excuse myself from the 
meeting. 

588
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,000
I couldn't even say anything. 
I just literally left the 

589
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:24,880
meeting and walked away because.
I didn't know what to do. 

590
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:31,120
I looked at the messages and 
said, I'm sorry, Nicole, she's 

591
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:32,600
deceased. 
Oh. 

592
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:38,719
And again I was shocked. 
Again I was in disbelief. 

593
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,960
And again, the emotional roller 
coaster search having hope. 

594
00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:49,420
Again after so many missed 
attempts, failed attempts and 

595
00:34:49,420 --> 00:34:52,460
then finally that hope being 
taken away yet again. 

596
00:34:53,420 --> 00:35:00,220
But I now looking back I learned
that moment. 

597
00:35:00,780 --> 00:35:04,660
Change things for me because 
while she's deceased and I was 

598
00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:08,300
really, you know, down about 
that for a long time, that was 

599
00:35:08,420 --> 00:35:11,780
the worst Thanksgiving I think I
ever had because it was November

600
00:35:11,780 --> 00:35:14,540
and I just wasn't into it and I 
was really sad. 

601
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,240
One I will say the adoptee 
community was amazing. 

602
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:22,480
I wrote my heart out and I 
shared what happened and so many

603
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,280
just outpouring of love and 
support from all my fellow 

604
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,080
adoptees on Instagram and 
Facebook was amazing. 

605
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:34,960
So that helped uplift me. 
And then also in addition to 

606
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,040
finding her and finding that she
was deceased, I could not 

607
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,160
believe it. 
She died in 2019. 

608
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,800
That is the year that I started 
my blog. 

609
00:35:44,810 --> 00:35:51,250
And maybe that's why I was so 
compelled to search the I mean, 

610
00:35:51,250 --> 00:35:54,930
just connecting the dots, you 
know, it's really miraculous. 

611
00:35:55,530 --> 00:36:02,170
And I learned that there was 
some family still in South 

612
00:36:02,170 --> 00:36:07,290
Carolina, some cousins and and 
other people that DNA Angels did

613
00:36:07,290 --> 00:36:08,850
put me in touch with. 
So. 

614
00:36:09,380 --> 00:36:13,580
I was able to connect with them 
and hear about her as a young 

615
00:36:13,580 --> 00:36:16,660
person and some stories about 
her growing up from other 

616
00:36:16,660 --> 00:36:20,820
people, and at the time it meant
a lot to me. 

617
00:36:20,820 --> 00:36:25,020
I was too sad to really realize 
how valuable that was. 

618
00:36:25,020 --> 00:36:30,460
But now when I look back, I am 
so grateful to have learned 

619
00:36:30,460 --> 00:36:34,100
about her and finally heard her 
story through other people's 

620
00:36:34,100 --> 00:36:36,340
memories. 
And that's what I have. 

621
00:36:36,790 --> 00:36:39,710
And you know what? 
That means Everything. 

622
00:36:39,710 --> 00:36:42,550
I wish I wasn't too late and 
that we could have met. 

623
00:36:42,870 --> 00:36:48,070
But at least I know her story 
and I know that she, you know, I

624
00:36:48,070 --> 00:36:53,710
wasn't a secret and that, you 
know, she was running away from 

625
00:36:54,030 --> 00:36:57,230
a really, you know, challenging 
situation. 

626
00:36:57,790 --> 00:37:00,230
So she did what she had to do at
the time. 

627
00:37:00,390 --> 00:37:04,410
Because, yeah, he wasn't. 
Able to to take care of me and 

628
00:37:04,450 --> 00:37:06,090
barely able to take care of 
herself. 

629
00:37:06,090 --> 00:37:10,090
So I have so much empathy for 
her and I'm so grateful that I 

630
00:37:10,090 --> 00:37:13,490
heard about her and received 
pictures, which is something 

631
00:37:13,490 --> 00:37:17,810
that I never had. 
So I love my pictures and I will

632
00:37:17,810 --> 00:37:19,610
just have to hold on to her 
memory. 

633
00:37:20,230 --> 00:37:21,990
Yeah. 
Any resemblances? 

634
00:37:22,030 --> 00:37:28,030
Yes, yes, she's like the. 
Blonde me, Yeah. 

635
00:37:28,030 --> 00:37:31,990
We have like a very similar face
shape, like the very like kind 

636
00:37:31,990 --> 00:37:35,710
of angular square face. 
She definitely has the same face

637
00:37:35,710 --> 00:37:38,150
shape. 
And then actually an adoptive 

638
00:37:38,150 --> 00:37:41,680
friend of mine. 
And I posted about it, made a 

639
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,320
sidebyside picture. 
I posted her pictures and she 

640
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,720
made a sidebyside picture of her
and me next to each other. 

641
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,440
Oh, I was really touching. 
Yeah, I love that. 

642
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,720
Yeah. 
Do you have any siblings on 

643
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:55,840
either side? 
Do you know? 

644
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,240
OK. 
So the last time I did a podcast

645
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:03,560
interview, I had just found out 
that same day that I had a I 

646
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,620
just. 
Was in contact for the first 

647
00:38:05,620 --> 00:38:11,380
time that I had a biological 
half brother that she had later.

648
00:38:11,380 --> 00:38:15,140
He's younger than me and he's 
living in California. 

649
00:38:15,660 --> 00:38:21,220
I had one great conversation 
with him and. 

650
00:38:21,830 --> 00:38:26,550
I lost. 
I actually was planning on 

651
00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:33,190
trying to go see him when I went
to California for a recent trade

652
00:38:33,190 --> 00:38:38,390
show conference for my work and 
I don't know what happened. 

653
00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:42,550
He disappeared. 
So I don't hold it against him. 

654
00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:46,710
I'm just disappointed and I 
think he has his own struggles 

655
00:38:46,710 --> 00:38:51,360
and I have to accept that. 
But again, just like my mother, 

656
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,520
I don't have her in my life, but
I have other people's memories 

657
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,120
of her. 
I don't have my brother either, 

658
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:01,040
but I know he exists. 
And I had one great two hour 

659
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,560
conversation with him that 
helped me achieve even more 

660
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,680
peace. 
Because what he told me was so 

661
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,760
amazing I had no idea what to 
expect. 

662
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,760
And he said, you know what? 
She called you Nikki. 

663
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,520
Which is interesting because my 
whole life when people would 

664
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,400
call me Nick, I mean, no, I'm 
Nicole. 

665
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,760
But yeah, she referred to me as 
Nikki. 

666
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,280
I was not a secret. 
And she told him about me. 

667
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,160
And she said that she wanted to 
find me. 

668
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:40,600
And she told him this in the 
hospital when she was declining.

669
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:46,440
So on her deathbed. 
She was thinking about me and 

670
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,840
that answered that question that
I wondered my whole life is she 

671
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,520
thinking about me? 
And was I a secret? 

672
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,040
And those are the answers that I
wanted. 

673
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:01,560
And that, again, was a gift, 
because if I had not searched, I

674
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,840
would not know. 
Right. 

675
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,760
And did you ever meet your 
biological father's side? 

676
00:40:09,100 --> 00:40:12,660
I did not. 
I do have a second cousin who I 

677
00:40:12,660 --> 00:40:16,660
text, 2 second cousins who I 
text with, but they're not close

678
00:40:16,660 --> 00:40:21,180
enough to know him. 
So my next step in the search 

679
00:40:21,180 --> 00:40:23,660
journey, which I had to take a 
break from because that was a 

680
00:40:23,660 --> 00:40:29,100
lot, yeah, but my. 
Next step is to figure out I 

681
00:40:29,100 --> 00:40:31,100
would like to find someone who 
knew him. 

682
00:40:31,100 --> 00:40:34,140
Like I found these people who 
knew my mother and could. 

683
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:40,040
You know, I think he died very 
young, so I might not be able to

684
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,840
find that, but that's my next 
goal is to find someone who knew

685
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,680
him or to find more about his 
story, because that's still 

686
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:52,080
very, very cloudy to me, Which 
is interesting because I found 

687
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:57,800
his information first, but and 
my mother was the elusive one. 

688
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,920
But I still don't have, you 
know, close family or anyone who

689
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:06,050
who knows him. 
I did find a third cousin who is

690
00:41:06,050 --> 00:41:09,490
amazing from my father's side, 
doesn't know my father, but 

691
00:41:09,490 --> 00:41:13,130
welcomed me with open arms and 
is just so sweet. 

692
00:41:13,130 --> 00:41:19,930
So it it's been an interesting 
experience and I've met some 

693
00:41:20,090 --> 00:41:24,650
amazing people who want to help 
and have an open heart and have 

694
00:41:24,650 --> 00:41:26,930
empathy and I am thankful for 
that. 

695
00:41:27,590 --> 00:41:31,070
Yeah, so did you find out if the
story that you were told was 

696
00:41:31,070 --> 00:41:33,230
true, that your mom left you 
with the babysitter? 

697
00:41:34,350 --> 00:41:37,830
Is that? 
I think it was true, yeah, 

698
00:41:37,830 --> 00:41:43,550
because my dad told me that she 
kind of left me with different 

699
00:41:43,550 --> 00:41:48,190
babysitters, including him. 
Until she didn't come back one 

700
00:41:48,190 --> 00:41:51,990
time. 
And if I look at my adoption 

701
00:41:52,270 --> 00:41:55,030
records, I was adopted at the 
age of three. 

702
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:58,390
That means she kept me for three
years, yeah. 

703
00:41:59,030 --> 00:42:00,790
I was not given away at birth, 
right? 

704
00:42:01,310 --> 00:42:05,310
She tried. 
And that breaks my heart even 

705
00:42:05,310 --> 00:42:11,270
more, because she tried, right? 
And she, you know, she had to 

706
00:42:11,270 --> 00:42:13,270
make a choice. 
But she tried. 

707
00:42:13,820 --> 00:42:15,780
And that means everything to me.
Yeah. 

708
00:42:16,380 --> 00:42:21,020
So you have a son and I. 
Do looking back on like how you 

709
00:42:21,020 --> 00:42:24,220
raised him, do you see adoption 
playing a role in like your 

710
00:42:24,220 --> 00:42:28,100
style of parenting? 
Absolutely, absolutely. 

711
00:42:28,100 --> 00:42:33,580
So I would say that becoming a 
mother after growing up without 

712
00:42:33,580 --> 00:42:39,700
one was one of the most amazing 
and. 

713
00:42:40,340 --> 00:42:45,860
Fulfilling experiences that I 
ever had and one of the first 

714
00:42:45,860 --> 00:42:52,540
times I felt whole, ever. 
You know, growing up with no one

715
00:42:52,540 --> 00:42:55,740
looking like me and never seeing
my own reflection, Having no 

716
00:42:55,740 --> 00:42:59,820
genetic mirror, finally having a
genetic mirror that I made 

717
00:42:59,820 --> 00:43:04,380
myself was miraculous. 
I mean. 

718
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,480
And I will never forget when I 
had my son. 

719
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,840
The doctor said, oh, he looks 
like mom before I even saw him. 

720
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,320
And I remember being like, Oh my
gosh, summer looks like. 

721
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:18,160
What? 
Amazing. 

722
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,840
I can't believe it. 
And then I just fell in love 

723
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,800
when I first held him and we 
found it instantly. 

724
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,880
And we are still very, very 
close. 

725
00:43:28,540 --> 00:43:33,020
And I love him so much and he's 
more than a son. 

726
00:43:33,020 --> 00:43:35,020
He's the the love that made me 
whole. 

727
00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:38,420
So were you kind of 
overprotective then with him 

728
00:43:38,420 --> 00:43:43,220
growing up? 
100% I hate to admit it, but 

729
00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:45,940
it's true that Velcro is still 
there. 

730
00:43:46,580 --> 00:43:50,300
Exactly. 
It's my extreme intense 

731
00:43:50,300 --> 00:43:58,530
attachments, Yes, and. 
And actually, I know we're 

732
00:43:58,530 --> 00:44:03,050
joking about it, but that was 
another rough time in my adoptee

733
00:44:03,050 --> 00:44:08,770
journey when he decided to go to
the Navy after high school and 

734
00:44:08,770 --> 00:44:12,090
entered boot camp. 
I had separation anxiety. 

735
00:44:12,090 --> 00:44:16,210
I was not ready. 
I was used to him being around 

736
00:44:16,490 --> 00:44:22,210
and not being able to 
communicate on the phone or text

737
00:44:22,210 --> 00:44:25,380
or anything. 
Except for letters. 

738
00:44:25,380 --> 00:44:28,620
Handwritten letters. 
It killed me. 

739
00:44:28,620 --> 00:44:31,900
I was crushed. 
I was so depressed. 

740
00:44:31,900 --> 00:44:34,060
Probably the most depressed I've
ever been in my life. 

741
00:44:34,660 --> 00:44:37,660
And I wasn't sure if I was going
to make it out of that. 

742
00:44:37,780 --> 00:44:39,740
And I did. 
But. 

743
00:44:40,410 --> 00:44:43,490
That was a very dark time. 
A lot of dark poetry happened 

744
00:44:43,810 --> 00:44:49,330
during during that time, and 
that was my coping mechanism and

745
00:44:49,490 --> 00:44:53,210
I would check. 
I would come home from work and 

746
00:44:53,210 --> 00:44:57,370
check my mailbox every day 
looking for a letter and it only

747
00:44:57,370 --> 00:45:00,330
happened a few times, but I 
still have those letters because

748
00:45:00,330 --> 00:45:04,180
they meant everything to me. 
And then I would wait for my 

749
00:45:04,180 --> 00:45:08,540
phone to light up. 
And I knew, you know, the city 

750
00:45:08,540 --> 00:45:11,980
where he was looking for that 
city on my phone because 

751
00:45:11,980 --> 00:45:14,740
obviously it wasn't a cell 
phone, It was a landline. 

752
00:45:14,740 --> 00:45:17,220
And I'm like waiting. 
And it only happened a few 

753
00:45:17,220 --> 00:45:20,900
times, but each of those calls 
was was amazing. 

754
00:45:20,900 --> 00:45:25,820
And when I went to his 
graduation from boot camp, Oh my

755
00:45:25,820 --> 00:45:27,940
gosh, that was quite the 
reunion. 

756
00:45:28,410 --> 00:45:34,290
And it was, it was amazing. 
So yeah, that was very, very 

757
00:45:34,290 --> 00:45:36,610
challenging. 
It definitely triggered my 

758
00:45:36,610 --> 00:45:44,330
abandonment issues and I am 
fortunate for my my husband who 

759
00:45:44,330 --> 00:45:49,370
stood by me and told me it would
be OK and tried to distract me 

760
00:45:49,370 --> 00:45:52,250
and. 
You know, took me to my favorite

761
00:45:52,250 --> 00:45:56,610
places to try to and I mean 
really nothing worked. 

762
00:45:56,610 --> 00:46:00,530
But he tried and it was it was 
important. 

763
00:46:01,450 --> 00:46:05,170
I, you know, I felt like I lost 
everything with him being gone. 

764
00:46:05,170 --> 00:46:08,250
And it was really weird because 
it was kind of scary that I 

765
00:46:08,250 --> 00:46:12,290
could feel like that because it 
wasn't just missing someone 

766
00:46:12,290 --> 00:46:16,490
knowing he was coming back. 
I felt like my brain interpreted

767
00:46:16,490 --> 00:46:19,160
it as. 
A permanent loss. 

768
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,920
I was grieving him as if he had 
died. 

769
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,160
And it was so weird and I was so
scared that I couldn't snap out 

770
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,160
of it. 
And fortunately I did. 

771
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,400
But wow, that was a scary, scary
time. 

772
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:38,720
Because I was so attached and 
that genetic mirror was. 

773
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,000
I didn't realize. 
I realized when I had him, but I

774
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,340
didn't realize, you know, after.
He was in high school that he 

775
00:46:46,340 --> 00:46:49,540
was still playing that role in 
my life as my genetic mirror, 

776
00:46:49,540 --> 00:46:53,420
and that having him in my life 
on a regular basis was part of 

777
00:46:53,420 --> 00:46:57,260
my healing. 
And seeing him and interacting 

778
00:46:57,260 --> 00:46:59,820
with him made me feel more 
whole. 

779
00:47:00,740 --> 00:47:03,820
And when I lost that, even 
though it was temporary and I 

780
00:47:03,820 --> 00:47:08,460
knew it was temporary, it's like
my mind didn't, you know, wasn't

781
00:47:08,460 --> 00:47:10,580
confusing that. 
Yeah, yeah. 

782
00:47:10,900 --> 00:47:13,420
Wow. 
Yeah, that's tough. 

783
00:47:15,230 --> 00:47:18,430
The grief I can. 
I can totally see that though, 

784
00:47:18,430 --> 00:47:24,510
because that separation, because
you guys were so close, you know

785
00:47:24,550 --> 00:47:26,750
the whole time growing up and 
everything, all through high 

786
00:47:26,750 --> 00:47:29,510
school and then even in the Navy
like now he's got to go on 

787
00:47:29,510 --> 00:47:31,710
deployments and stuff, right? 
Well, he. 

788
00:47:31,790 --> 00:47:37,230
Is done with his his contract, 
so he is back home and I'm happy

789
00:47:37,230 --> 00:47:39,960
to have him back home. 
Here in Cleveland. 

790
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,360
So yeah, now he's building his 
life. 

791
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,720
So I'm I'm thrilled. 
It's amazing. 

792
00:47:45,720 --> 00:47:47,880
I didn't know that that would 
happen. 

793
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,000
I thought for sure that he would
just be off another. 

794
00:47:51,540 --> 00:47:53,580
Other states, other countries, 
who knows? 

795
00:47:53,580 --> 00:47:55,420
You know, he's very adventurous,
right? 

796
00:47:55,420 --> 00:48:00,820
And I can't help but wonder if 
he had to get away because I was

797
00:48:01,020 --> 00:48:03,700
so attached. 
I hope that's not the case. 

798
00:48:03,700 --> 00:48:06,180
But it could. 
It could be, you know. 

799
00:48:08,540 --> 00:48:10,340
Yeah, yeah. 
Break the break you needed. 

800
00:48:11,820 --> 00:48:16,980
Yeah, no, it's good because he 
needed to find his own way and 

801
00:48:16,980 --> 00:48:20,660
be independent. 
And I'm glad that I. 

802
00:48:21,180 --> 00:48:25,340
Did not stand his way and right.
I knew it would break my heart, 

803
00:48:25,340 --> 00:48:29,260
but I had to support his choice 
and I had to show him support 

804
00:48:29,420 --> 00:48:32,460
and it was a tough decision 
because I had to sign for him at

805
00:48:32,460 --> 00:48:38,460
17 and I thought I was signing 
his life away and that was that 

806
00:48:38,460 --> 00:48:41,620
was really hard. 
But he was very strong willed. 

807
00:48:41,620 --> 00:48:44,020
He knew what he wanted to do. 
He had researched it. 

808
00:48:44,470 --> 00:48:48,270
And I had to support him. 
So I I did what was right for 

809
00:48:48,270 --> 00:48:53,270
him and I tried to, you know, 
not think about the impact on 

810
00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:56,590
me. 
And then then I felt it after he

811
00:48:56,590 --> 00:48:58,630
left. 
Well, I think having that child 

812
00:48:58,630 --> 00:49:02,230
mother bond, you don't think 
that that's going to break apart

813
00:49:02,310 --> 00:49:04,270
as a baby. 
And then it does. 

814
00:49:04,270 --> 00:49:07,590
And so with your son, I can 
totally see that because, yeah, 

815
00:49:07,590 --> 00:49:08,990
he's leaving and he's coming 
back. 

816
00:49:08,990 --> 00:49:11,970
But it's not promised. 
It's not promised. 

817
00:49:11,970 --> 00:49:13,250
You don't know. 
You know. 

818
00:49:13,250 --> 00:49:14,770
You just don't know. 
And that's always in the back of

819
00:49:14,770 --> 00:49:16,890
your mind, I think. 
Right. 

820
00:49:17,730 --> 00:49:21,330
So talking about the Primal 
Wound and the fog, and you know,

821
00:49:21,330 --> 00:49:24,330
coming out of the fog, what 
helped you when you were coming 

822
00:49:24,330 --> 00:49:25,490
out? 
Deal with that. 

823
00:49:25,490 --> 00:49:28,170
I know your blog and writing. 
And, you know, was there 

824
00:49:28,170 --> 00:49:32,210
anything else? 
Yeah, I mean adoptees, other 

825
00:49:32,210 --> 00:49:38,240
adoptees, and knowing that. 
Other people felt the same way, 

826
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:43,720
and that I wasn't alone and 
having that support even early 

827
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:49,160
on in my blog days. 
In 2019, before I started the 

828
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:54,120
social media channels, I had the
blog and it was so funny because

829
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,920
I would write and then I would 
obsessively like look to see if 

830
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,560
anyone saw it, And then this one
person, this other adoptee. 

831
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:06,080
Found it every single time I 
wrote something, she commented. 

832
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,840
And you know how they say if you
could touch one person, it's 

833
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,240
worth it? 
That was my one person and 

834
00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:16,320
that's why I kept going. 
So I'm so thankful that I 

835
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,680
connected in that way. 
And eventually more people found

836
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:21,960
it. 
But that like kept me going 

837
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,840
because that I was very much 
self doubting. 

838
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:26,680
You know? 
Is this gonna matter? 

839
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,360
Does anyone care? 
Can I really touch someone? 

840
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,800
It was really more of a thesis 
that I had that well, if I so 

841
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,720
share my story in a personal 
way, maybe I can connect with 

842
00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:39,040
others and. 
I didn't know because I wasn't. 

843
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:44,000
You know, it was my first foray 
into the online community and 

844
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:48,320
I'm so faithful and you know now
that I think about, you know, 

845
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:52,720
Kovat and not being in person 
for a long time, it didn't 

846
00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:56,360
matter because we still had each
other online and our Dottie 

847
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,360
community was still engaging 
with each other and it was 

848
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,120
awesome. 
And then in 21 I joined 

849
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:08,120
Fireside. 
And the leadership team and that

850
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:12,080
is just an amplifier for those 
adoptee to adoptee connections. 

851
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:16,720
And I was so thrilled when 
Amanda Baum reached out to me 

852
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:18,760
and asked me to be on the 
leadership team. 

853
00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:23,880
And we're still going strong and
now we have over 800 members and

854
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,720
we have great participation in 
our chats. 

855
00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:31,280
And I just love our fireside 
community as a kind of a 

856
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,920
community within the overall 
adoptee community online. 

857
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,000
It's great. 
I love being a part of it and I 

858
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:42,080
love seeing it grow and so 
touched by everything I hear on 

859
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:46,480
the chats and just having the 
honor of, you know, listening 

860
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:51,200
and and people opening up and 
and trusting us and and sharing 

861
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,240
so deeply. 
It's so important and I can see 

862
00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:56,800
the impact and I love being a 
part of it. 

863
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,160
So lastly, what would you like 
struggling adoptees to know? 

864
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:07,670
Well. 
I think there's three things I 

865
00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:10,670
kind of think about my 
experience and what I've learned

866
00:52:11,110 --> 00:52:12,750
and things that I needed to 
hear. 

867
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:15,670
The first thing is that you are 
not alone. 

868
00:52:15,950 --> 00:52:17,830
It might feel like that at 
times. 

869
00:52:18,030 --> 00:52:22,310
And even if you have a 
supportive family, your family, 

870
00:52:22,430 --> 00:52:27,310
only another adoptee can really 
understand and relate to how 

871
00:52:27,310 --> 00:52:29,270
you're feeling. 
And we all have diverse 

872
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:33,430
experiences, but that's so 
important so. 

873
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:37,360
I would say please seek out and 
prioritize connections with 

874
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,120
other adoptees because it really
helps. 

875
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,880
It is one of the most powerful 
sources of healing that I've 

876
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,160
experienced in my very long 
journey. 

877
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:48,800
Two, you don't have to be a 
victim of circumstances that 

878
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,510
beyond your control. 
Um, that's one of my biggest 

879
00:52:52,510 --> 00:52:57,110
takeaways is that sometimes we 
act as if we no longer have a 

880
00:52:57,110 --> 00:53:01,150
choice because our choice was 
taken away as a child or as a 

881
00:53:01,150 --> 00:53:02,310
baby. 
But you know what? 

882
00:53:02,310 --> 00:53:06,310
We're adults now and we have a 
choice and we can live the life 

883
00:53:06,310 --> 00:53:10,390
that we deserve. 
And it's so important to not 

884
00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:12,470
only realize that, but to act on
it. 

885
00:53:12,670 --> 00:53:14,950
And it takes a long time to get 
there. 

886
00:53:15,230 --> 00:53:18,070
And but when you do, it's really
liberating and really 

887
00:53:18,070 --> 00:53:20,230
empowering. 
And that's what drives me. 

888
00:53:20,390 --> 00:53:23,430
Every day is I am living the 
life that I want for myself 

889
00:53:23,430 --> 00:53:31,110
because I'm in control now. 
And three, gosh, I think that 

890
00:53:31,350 --> 00:53:35,710
you know, just being 
compassionate with yourself and 

891
00:53:35,710 --> 00:53:39,510
giving yourself grace and 
accepting your feelings and it's

892
00:53:39,510 --> 00:53:42,270
okay to feel sad and even if you
think you made a lot of 

893
00:53:42,270 --> 00:53:44,890
progress. 
This journey is not linear. 

894
00:53:44,890 --> 00:53:50,010
I mean, mine has been like this,
so lots of it's a roller 

895
00:53:50,010 --> 00:53:53,050
coaster, Lots of ups and downs. 
But don't give up. 

896
00:53:53,450 --> 00:53:58,010
Believe in yourself. 
Be your own best advocate. 

897
00:53:58,130 --> 00:54:00,330
Love yourself. 
Truly love yourself. 

898
00:54:00,410 --> 00:54:01,930
It's hard to get there. 
But. 

899
00:54:02,250 --> 00:54:06,210
I want that for every adoptee, 
that self, self love, because 

900
00:54:06,530 --> 00:54:08,330
don't look for it in other 
places. 

901
00:54:08,490 --> 00:54:11,170
I know it's cliche to say, but 
it's very true. 

902
00:54:11,290 --> 00:54:14,570
And my life, it was the unlock 
when I started to believe in 

903
00:54:14,570 --> 00:54:16,970
myself and realized that I was 
in control. 

904
00:54:17,410 --> 00:54:21,050
That's when my career took off. 
That's when I found my my new 

905
00:54:21,050 --> 00:54:24,490
husband. 
And I am the happiest I've ever 

906
00:54:24,490 --> 00:54:28,670
been. 
And I'm glad I searched and I 

907
00:54:28,670 --> 00:54:33,430
have my battle scars, But I am 
just really proud of myself, and

908
00:54:33,430 --> 00:54:36,790
I want every adoptee to take the
steps that they're afraid to 

909
00:54:36,790 --> 00:54:41,750
take, because there's so much 
growth that can happen, and I 

910
00:54:41,750 --> 00:54:45,710
want every adoptee to feel that 
growth and to feel empowered 

911
00:54:45,830 --> 00:54:47,950
that they can live the life that
they want. 

912
00:54:48,230 --> 00:54:52,740
Yeah, so true. 
So you have a blog along with 

913
00:54:52,740 --> 00:54:54,740
being affiliated with some 
adoptee groups. 

914
00:54:54,740 --> 00:54:57,620
So you want to tell us where we 
can find those things? 

915
00:54:57,780 --> 00:55:01,260
Sure. 
My blog and my Instagram and my 

916
00:55:01,260 --> 00:55:03,860
Facebook is all the adoptee in 
me. 

917
00:55:03,860 --> 00:55:10,380
So the adoptee in INME and 
orange is my brand color. 

918
00:55:10,380 --> 00:55:14,260
So when you see the orange 
hearts, that's me and. 

919
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,920
Also, fireside adaptees. 
We have a Facebook group that's 

920
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:21,960
private, so you have to answer a
few questions. 

921
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,880
We want to know that you're an 
adoptee, but there's also a 

922
00:55:26,240 --> 00:55:30,000
public group or a public page 
for everyone in the 

923
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,200
constellation, because that's 
important too. 

924
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,120
We want to engage with all of 
our Constellation members. 

925
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:38,720
Well, thank you so much for 
coming on the show. 

926
00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:42,160
Nicole, I know you had a lot of 
ups and downs like you were 

927
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:46,730
saying, but I always say that 
every story, there's somebody 

928
00:55:46,730 --> 00:55:50,890
out there waiting to hear your 
story because your story is 

929
00:55:50,890 --> 00:55:54,570
going to affect them and make 
them not feel so alone. 

930
00:55:55,170 --> 00:55:57,210
So thank you so much for coming 
on today. 

931
00:55:57,490 --> 00:55:59,850
Thank you for having me. 
I believe that too, Melissa. 

932
00:55:59,850 --> 00:56:02,890
I really appreciate the time. 
I loved our conversation. 

933
00:56:04,010 --> 00:56:07,010
There is so much I want to say 
about this interview. 

934
00:56:07,850 --> 00:56:12,730
I want you to know I don't pick 
and choose who comes on this 

935
00:56:12,730 --> 00:56:16,950
podcast. 
I don't pick the stories that 

936
00:56:16,950 --> 00:56:21,830
are going to be a tearjerker or 
make your jaw drop. 

937
00:56:22,590 --> 00:56:27,190
The people that come on this 
podcast are random people that I

938
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:33,910
have run into on social media or
have been sent to me from other 

939
00:56:33,910 --> 00:56:37,430
people that I know. 
They're people that have become 

940
00:56:37,430 --> 00:56:41,790
part of the Karma crew and just 
volunteer to come tell their 

941
00:56:41,790 --> 00:56:44,700
story. 
And when Nicole was talking 

942
00:56:44,700 --> 00:56:50,220
about when she got the message 
saying that they found her birth

943
00:56:50,220 --> 00:56:53,820
mother, after searching and 
searching and searching and 

944
00:56:53,820 --> 00:57:00,020
having search angels give up on 
the search, someone finally was 

945
00:57:00,020 --> 00:57:02,620
able to find her. 
And the excitement Nicole was 

946
00:57:02,620 --> 00:57:08,140
feeling in that moment until she
found out that her mother had 

947
00:57:08,140 --> 00:57:11,140
passed away just a few years 
before. 

948
00:57:12,460 --> 00:57:17,300
That is just heartbreaking. 
And that is the story of so many

949
00:57:17,860 --> 00:57:21,380
adoptees. 
Our histories, where we came 

950
00:57:21,380 --> 00:57:27,540
from originally, is kept from 
us, is hidden from us, is taken 

951
00:57:27,540 --> 00:57:35,020
from us, and we have to claw and
fight and hire people and spend 

952
00:57:35,020 --> 00:57:39,380
countless hours trying to find 
our origin. 

953
00:57:40,740 --> 00:57:45,500
And to do that and find out that
you were too late is 

954
00:57:45,500 --> 00:57:49,580
unimaginable. 
But Nicole handles it with such 

955
00:57:49,580 --> 00:57:54,260
compassion and grace. 
It's truly amazing. 

956
00:57:54,820 --> 00:57:59,500
I'm not sure I could do the same
if I was in her shoes. 

957
00:58:00,460 --> 00:58:03,060
Thank you so much, Nicole, for 
coming on the show today. 

958
00:58:03,580 --> 00:58:08,580
And thank you for spending a lot
of your time helping advocate 

959
00:58:08,580 --> 00:58:12,320
for US adoptees. 
And thank you all for listening,

960
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:15,920
as always. 
Take what you need and leave 

961
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:20,120
what you don't. 
And always remember to mind your

962
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:22,800
own karma. 
I'll see you next time.