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Well, hello and thank you all 
for tuning into another episode 

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of the Professional Pricing 
Society podcast. 

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My name is Terrence and we have 
a great guest speaker with us 

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today who was speaking ahead of 
their speaking engagement at our

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Amsterdam conference. 
We have Akbar, Samurai Akbar, 

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How you doing today? 
I'm good. 

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Thank you. 
Hi, Terrence. 

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How are you? 
Doing well, doing very well. 

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I'm glad to have you with us 
today. 

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You're going to be speaking with
us on pricing sustainability as 

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a service, correct? 
Correct. 

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Yeah. 
All right. 

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So I won't waste too much time, 
but I will say we are very 

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excited to have you at our 
upcoming conference and this 

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speaking engagement is going to 
be serving as a teaser for 

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what's to come. 
You know, as far as you going to

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actually in depth with this 
topic at the conference, but for

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the time being, you can kind of 
give us a little taste of what 

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to expect. 
Now, can you provide an overview

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of the concept of pricing 
sustainability as a service for 

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autonomous urban mobility and 
how it envisions reshaping our 

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cities? 
First of all, I'm so glad I'm 

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here and I'm excited and looking
forward. 

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Thanks for having me. 
So answering your your question,

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it's a great question. 
So sustainability as a service 

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is something that is going to 
come. 

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In the near future whether we 
are prepared for it or not. 

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So being proactive is that from 
a pricing perspective I think 

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that this is very important and 
I chose autonomous urban 

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mobility as an example of 
sustainability as a service 

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because I see that coming sooner
than later. 

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The fundamental shift, I think 
it will value the mobility 

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because in our cities we find 
that very important, 

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specifically of from an economy 
cost from a traditional economy 

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cost and. 
Finding and giving that 

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approach, that aim to encourage 
the use of sustainable 

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resources. 
And by doing that we are kind of

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like reshaping our cities, 
reducing congestion, air 

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pollution, noise greenery and 
community hubs and creativity. 

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And also, you know, investing in
your time that you have in 

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between. 
Now there are different aspects 

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to this concept. 
You know what are some of the 

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key sustainability benefits that
can be achieved by adopting 

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autonomous vehicles and 
implement implementing pricing 

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strategies that reflect 
environmental stewardship. 

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OK. 
So from a pricing perspective, 

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you have to take in you know you
we always try to be impartial, 

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staying away from advocacy and 
tell people what they should and

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shouldn't. 
However, when it comes to 

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sustainability, you have to like
just specifically on that 

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example, you're kind of like 
coupling the pricing strategy to

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align on the environmental 
stewardship where you can have 

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key several key sustainability 
benefits such as you know, 

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significant reduction in 
greenhouse and gas, gas emission

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and whether we can, you know, 
measure that or not, that's 

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where. 
We as a pricing come into the 

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picture and we can add into that
by putting a number towards that

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and making that visible. 
And secondly, it can also 

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elevate the traffic congestion 
and reducing the travel time and

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also gives like affordable 
mobility. 

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And that all can be also 
translated into numbers where we

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can measure that and give it 
like a value where it can. 

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Help people to make those 
decisions and look at those 

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numbers of the before and after.
Something similar to the 

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sustainability reports that a 
lot of companies that they are 

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now doing where we can have that
framework built in advance, OK, 

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essentially creating something 
to basically track this 

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information. 
Exactly, exactly, exactly that. 

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Exactly that. 
OK, now how do frameworks like 

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TCFD come into play when 
discussing sustainability as a 

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service? 
Or how can they guide decision 

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making in this specific context?
I've been listening to a recent 

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podcast called Sustainability 
Defined and we were it was 

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talking about transparency, 
transparency and important that 

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is. 
And if you look at the 

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frameworks that. 
Now it is so essential which is 

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the as science based targets, 
SBTI, the TCFD, the Task Force 

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and climate. 
You also have to mention the 

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Corporate Sustainability 
Reporting Directive which is the

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CSRD that is now being 
implemented in Europe and 

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majority of the companies that 
are registered in Europe have to

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have a mandatory reporting on 
that. 

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So with that being said. 
Ensuring that we have a proper 

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pricing strategy. 
It would help, you know, reduce 

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that ambiguity when it comes to 
measuring the impact. 

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Because a lot of times there are
a lot of companies that would 

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claim that this is a green, you 
know, solution for example. 

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And there is now a terminology 
that called green wash and it's 

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basically saying that I would 
just put it there and there's no

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accountability now with certain 
pricing. 

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Strategies in place that's with 
eliminate that kind of like 

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ambiguity and gives 
accountability to companies and 

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also help with those reporting 
mandatories that it's going to 

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be kind of like mandatory 
actually in in certain places. 

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I know it's not in North 
America, I know my country, 

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Canada, they are like doing that
now. 

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So I'm just saying that if it's 
not now, it's later for sure. 

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OK. 
So you're kind of giving a 

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foreshadowing of what to expect 
in the future regarding this 

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topic in, in particular. 
Now in relation to this, are you

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able to give some information 
about the historical parallels 

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and pricing strategies like like
essential services, like 

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electricity? 
And are you able to elaborate 

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and explain the historical 
shifts that can inform our 

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approach to sustain Urban 
Development? 

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So I would, I would just maybe 
ask you a question. 

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Would you think that like as of 
now if we look at electricity 

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and we think about the model of 
how do, how do we price 

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electricity, it went through 
stages, right? 

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But I would ask you now if say 
100 years ago, would if somebody

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comes to you and say we're going
to price electricity, would you 

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be able to give that a 
measurement? 

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And my answer to that, and I'm 
waiting for your answer here, 

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but well, 100 years ago, I don't
think we would be able to track 

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it as well as we can today. 
So I'm not quite sure how 

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successful they would be in 
tracking electricity electric 

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usage 100 years ago like they 
would be today. 

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Yeah. 
And and that's a fair answer, 

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right. 
And think about it as of now, 

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with the sustainability as a 
service. 

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Where we actually do not know, 
we can't measure, how can you 

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price something that you cannot 
measure it. 

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So that's the biggest question 
if we go in history and that's 

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why I wanted to give that 
parallel like comparison between

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now and then before, you know, 
actually came to the way that we

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know it, it was a luxurious, you
know, very like to a certain 

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people. 
It wasn't given to everybody. 

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And then it became a necessity. 
So shifting that dynamic and 

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shifting that like price and 
putting an economy, you know 

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kind of like utilizing on the 
economic value of it, it went 

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through like at least 100 years 
where we can now take it for 

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granted. 
But what I'm trying to say, 

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well, why I kind of like put 
those in in parallel because I 

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feel with them sustainability as
a service, we're kind of 

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advanced in the sense of how we 
can track it and how we can 

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measure it really. 
And that comes with you know an 

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open mindset of what that saving
mean and think about it 

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multiplied by years ahead. 
So whatever infrastructure that 

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would be put. 
It would be years ahead and that

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would measure and put a proper 
framework to the pricing 

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strategy that we would put Now 
that's interesting and that 

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makes a lot of sense. 
You know in your presentation 

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you're going to be talking about
the Co creation of a future of 

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sustainable and vibrant cities. 
Now, how can industry leaders, 

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policy makers, and, you know, 
even citizens, collaborate to 

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make this vision a reality? 
And what kind of role does 

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pricing play in this 
collaboration? 

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I think pricing play a vital 
role in that and the reason why 

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I say that people would go to 
the source like how would you 

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make something so appealing if 
it is not again goes back to the

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measurements and accounting that
we how can we make that 

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appealing to people if it's not 
paying their bills for example 

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so. 
When you track it, you have a 

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value to that service. 
And then when you make something

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that is going to give you all of
that, you know, sustainability 

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and sustainability models, you 
know the policy makers and the 

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citizen will will really want to
look at the benefit in it. 

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And I'll give you an example, I 
I lived in Alberta. 

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I'm from Alberta, Canada. 
And it's known for oil and gas 

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and for the longest time there 
were huge and mind you that 

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Canada's has like the cleanest 
oil and gas industry in the 

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sense that I mean from an 
environmental point of view. 

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However, that being said, there 
was always a pressure of looking

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at different side of of like 
energy sources in going away 

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from oil and gas. 
With that being said, I've 

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always thought that if we have 
some sort of like a report or a 

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way that we can tell people, you
know, that would be measured and

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that's how much will be the 
saving. 

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I assure you everyone would be 
pro sustainability, pro economic

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value, pro that, because that 
would mean that I'm going to be 

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able to shift my mindset from 
the traditional way. 

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So the bottom line is that you 
have to make that appealing and 

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by making it appealing, it has 
to be more tuned with the 

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citizen, with the citizen's 
needs, more tuned with the 

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policy makers and those all 
together. 

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It's kind of like an aligned, 
cohesive, you know, Symphony of 

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people are singing the same song
basically. 

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So OK, so trying to find a way 
that appeals at least for the 

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citizen aspect, because that 
would be me trying to find a way

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to where in which it appeal, you
know, it appeals to me and what 

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I what I either like or need. 
Does that make sense? 

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Exactly. 
Because if I tell you now, for 

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example, if I tell you now 
there's like an and and and like

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in in you know an electric cars 
for example, let's take electric

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cars and I would say like, hey, 
you know, like what do you think

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about cars like we would shift 
everything to electric cars and 

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everything. 
The first question you would 

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think is that how much I would 
be saving if I make that 

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investment? 
That's your first question. 

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Because why would I go from this
to that if I don't have anything

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tangible in my hand, a value, a 
tangible value in my hand that 

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would make it appealing to 
people. 

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And I would think that to be 
honest and to be fair, all of us

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are seeking that. 
And again, that goes back to 

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transparency. 
And a lot of issues, actually, 

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when it comes to achieving 
sustainability goals globally 

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has to do with transparency, 
because. 

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It goes back to pricing and 
being impartial because when we 

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give those decisions, it's based
on data and if those data are 

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not available or a little bit 
exactly that would make all of 

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our decisions inaccurate. 
OK. 

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Now hey, can you share some 
examples of, and you probably 

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already started alluding to this
in the 1st place, but can you 

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share some examples of 
pioneering pricing strategies 

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that mirror the value of 
environment stewardship in the 

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context of autonomous urban 
mobility? 

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Well, there are a couple like I 
would say, you know the, the 

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basic ones is that you know the 
incentivize of peak travel, the 

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incentivize ride sharing or 
using autonomous electric 

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vehicles. 
I mean, it is kind of like 

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mirroring the value, the value 
of environmental stewardship by 

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making sustainable choices more 
financially. 

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Appealing back to the same to 
the first to the last question 

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that we just answered. 
So when you make it financially 

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appealing, then people would 
kind of like, yeah, I want to go

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with that option because that's 
the option that I want to help. 

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And and especially when it comes
with a social goal behind it, it

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would definitely make people 
more happy to adopt that and go 

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with it. 
And that's a good point. 

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When you mention the value of an
electric car compared to a 

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traditional car, you know you're
that's a good point. 

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How much money would I save in 
fuel if I were to pursue an 

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electric car that still looks 
great and it's still popular 

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amongst culture and you know 
across different cities compared

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to a traditional car. 
So when you when you use the the

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vehicle perspective that helps 
me to kind of connect these dots

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in particular. 
Well, it's also back to the 

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question like when we said that 
when electricity, if you compare

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it to electricity, you know, 
electricity used to be a luxury 

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option to people. 
And then all of a sudden we 

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just, you know, that's why it 
wasn't for everyone. 

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And then all of a sudden we 
moved to like having that 

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available to everyone and then. 
OK. 

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How would you make sustainable 
solutions available to everyone 

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if those if those doesn't come 
with a value or financial 

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appealing to people, Yeah, 
$1,000,000 question. 

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Yeah. 
So what are some of the key 

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challenges and opportunities 
that lie ahead in the journey 

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towards sustainable, equitable 
and vibrant cities through 

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pricing sustainability as a 
service? 

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The biggest one is 
infrastructure. 

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How would you put that 
infrastructure? 

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So in in the model that I I came
up with, let's assume that you 

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would wake up one day and there 
are no cars in the streets and 

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you would just dial in on your 
phone. 

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It's not even dialing on your 
phone and click on an app and 

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that you know car would come to 
you. 

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I live in Dubai by the way and 
we have an app that we just 

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click and we have you know, fuel
comes to our house and we just, 

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you know everything is like 
automated. 

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But imagine that, imagine that 
that you have that app and you 

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don't need cars anymore. 
And with that being said then 

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you need an infrastructure where
you would need those to park 

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those idle cars. 
You need to have a proper 

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designs for all the roads to 
have. 

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A systematic way to detect each 
other's cars and then in that 

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way you would you would have 
electric you know autonomous 

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electric cars to be available 
and then also you know it can it

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can also be job like they are 
like kind of like the challenge 

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can also present opportunities 
it's just like with with 

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everything you know like for 
example. 

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If we say that, yeah, like there
are like a lot of like 

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technology adoption regularity 
that we need to put in. 

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This means that you have to add 
a lot of expertise to the table.

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And that goes back to my first 
point when I said the CSRD, the 

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corporate sustainability 
reporting and reporting 

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requirements by the euro is now 
creating a lot of emphasis on. 

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You know starting to put 
certifications towards 

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understanding what that means 
how can I like make it. 

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How can I actually embrace that 
pricing sustainability as a 

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service and lead to reduce like 
that traffic congestion to lower

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emission to improve air quality 
and do more urban environmental 

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solutions. 
So that like kind of like it's a

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it's a flip side I get the the 
the hurdles there. 

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But if you think about it from 
an opportunity point of view, 

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it's also something that we 
should be at least investing in 

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right now. 
Mm hmm. 

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That also makes a lot of sense 
because from this can come a lot

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of challenges but also 
opportunities from those 

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challenges that can help us to 
evolve in the pricing industry, 

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evolve in you know different 
ways regarding our society at 

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large when thinking about the 
future. 

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And so not all challenges are 
bad essentially is what what 

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you're saying pricing and? 
Then also you have to, you have 

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to also consider that it it it 
comes with a great price, 

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meaning that it would come with 
a price that we would have a 

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really a clean environment where
we would be able to invest our 

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time properly and we would be 
able to invest our resources 

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properly. 
I mean, for the longest time, to

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be fair, we were not living 
sustainably and that's why we 

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are having all of those problems
that are now coming up to the 

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surface where we become like a 
society where. 

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You know, all of the diseases, 
all of the issues, all of the 

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society issues, all of the, you 
know, even the mental, you know,

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issues that we're facing. 
Imagine if we have like kind of 

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like if we would be in tune with
nature. 

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And yeah, that might sound like 
very romantic, but when you 

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think about it, it's just about 
like just tuning your. 

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You know tuning in with the with
nature really and finding 

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solutions that would be more 
suitable to to everyone and we 

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can live sustainably in this, in
this on this planet. 

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A lot of our efforts were not 
sustainable in a lot of regards 

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and so it's short lived and so 
we can find some ways to come 

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together and bring forth some 
solutions to live more 

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sustainable life. 
We're talking about pricing. 

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A lot of doors can open. 
A lot of opportunities can come 

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to surface as a result. 
I mean from a pricing 

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perspective, if you look at the 
pricing, we are like a function 

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that serves other functions, 
right. 

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So our customers are the 
business, the business owners, 

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our customers are the, the, the 
people who makes those decisions

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00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:55,120
of the business. 
So when we do that, we're kind 

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of like enabling, we are 
enabling function basically. 

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00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,520
Imagine that you have an 
enabling function that knows the

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00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:08,440
in and out of what the future 
should be and have like a sense 

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00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,160
of what. 
How do we measure that in a 

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financial value and give you 
that perspective and make you 

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00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,920
make you more informative to 
make decisions and make proper 

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decisions that would help the 
environment basically. 

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And that goes. 
That can go a very long way. 

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00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,080
I can. 
Go exactly. 

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00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,240
OK, exactly. 
Pricing sustainability as a 

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service for autonomous urban 
mobility. 

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Miss Othba, it's been a pleasure
to speak with you today. 

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00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,240
Now she is going to be with us 
again at our Amsterdam 

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conference November 29th through
December 1st. 

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00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,360
I keep wanting this October for 
some reason and we're very 

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00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:51,320
excited to have you with us. 
Before we leave, is there any 

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00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,640
type of resource or website or 
place any of our listeners can 

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00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,680
learn more about you and your 
services and what you stand for?

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00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,600
Well, I have my LinkedIn 
profile, it's available and I 

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00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,840
have some and my biography is 
also available on our on the 

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00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,760
website as well. 
So you can you can reach me 

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00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,960
there and you know, I'm happy to
answer any questions and I'll. 

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00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,400
I'm happy to see everyone, and 
I'm excited to see everyone in 

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00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,120
Amsterdam next month. 
OK, good, good. 

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00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,600
Very excited to have you. 
Thank you again for your time 

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00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,120
today. 
And so next time we'll see you 

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00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:27,000
guys later. 
Bye, bye. 

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00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:28,120
Thank you. 
Bye, bye.