1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:02,600 Hello, and very good day, everyone. 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:07,480 Welcome to Let's Talk Pricing, the official podcast of the 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,440 Professional Pricing Society. I'm Kevin Mitchell from PPS, and 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,120 I'm very happy that you're with us for today's episode. 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,400 Today we're going to be talking about equipping sales teams to 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,760 build pricing power. And we all know that pricing 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,520 power isn't just about the numbers, it's about execution. 8 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:29,720 Your pricing strategy is only as strong as your sales team's 9 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:34,960 ability to defend value and to avoid unnecessary discounts. 10 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,840 So how do you make sure that they have the right tools, 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,880 structures, and confidence to uphold your prices effectively? 12 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:49,400 And to answer that, I'm joined by Lori Riboski and travels 13 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,800 Travis Humblebee from Holden Advisors. 14 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,520 Lori Riboski has 15 years of experience in B to B industrials 15 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,520 and manufacturing. She specializes in customer 16 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,280 value research and price model design. 17 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,400 She has worked in pricing, marketing, analytics, and 18 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,480 engineering. She holds an MBA and ABS in 19 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,520 Mechanical Engineering from Northern Illinois University, 20 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,760 and Lori got her certified Pricing Professional her CPP in 21 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,880 2021. Travis Umpleby has spent 25 22 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,480 years in sales strategy and capability development. 23 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,120 He coaches teams on negotiation techniques and pricing 24 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,600 confidence. He's a master facilitator for 25 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,000 negotiating with backbone programs. 26 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,640 And he is an also, he also is, I'm sorry, an adjunct professor 27 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:46,240 at Utah Valley University. So, Lori Travis, welcome to the 28 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:47,920 show. We are very excited to have you 29 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:49,960 here. Thanks for having us. 30 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,520 Thanks, Kevin. Thanks for inviting us to also 31 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,000 be a part of your conference coming up and to be able to 32 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,600 teach this workshop. We'd love to be able to share 33 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,520 ideas and to gain insights from from people that are 34 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:02,600 participating in your conference. 35 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,040 Definitely, yes, we're very much looking forward to your workshop 36 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,800 at the PPS conference coming up, will be in Dallas from May 6th 37 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:11,960 to 9th. So thank you for the reminder 38 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,040 there, Travis, appreciate that as well. 39 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,280 All right, so we're going to start today by talking about the 40 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,840 relationship between pricing teams and sales teams. 41 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,760 And a lot of companies struggle with aligning these two 42 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,920 functions. Sometimes we're too siloed. 43 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:32,360 Sometimes there can be, to put it politely, maybe a little 44 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,360 healthy competition between the two. 45 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,960 Sometimes there can be a lot of discussions about how pricing 46 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,640 and sales can partner more effectively. 47 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,800 So from your experience, what are some of the biggest 48 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:51,360 roadblocks to getting pricing and sales on the same page? 49 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,840 That's really a good question. And I wanted to call it 50 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,000 something that I read in your brochure for this upcoming 51 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,160 conference that I thought was really insightful and too often 52 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,760 it's overlooked you. You say on that brochure that 53 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:07,840 and it's right on the front page, it says, hey, we're doing 54 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:13,840 this to empower pricing and price adjacent teams to really 55 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:15,720 kind of create revenue. And I just thought that's so 56 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,800 insightful that it really is about pricing adjacent teams. 57 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,720 You mentioned the silos and that is something that we see happens 58 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,120 way too often. We do things to improve our 59 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,920 pricing capabilities and we do things to increase our sales 60 00:03:29,920 --> 00:03:33,680 capabilities, but we rarely do things that combine these two 61 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:38,480 and improve our sellers ability to communicate and achieve 62 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,040 pricing alignment, right. So this is something that I 63 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,920 think the silo perspective is something that eliminates 64 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,360 pricing power, right? It there's either pricing, you 65 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,000 can get really good at pricing and you can get really good at 66 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,120 selling. But if you don't bring those two 67 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:54,840 together, you don't have pricing power. 68 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,600 You have good sales teams and good pricing teams. 69 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,320 Absolutely, Yeah. Without that combination, 70 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,480 without that partnership, it's really more of an academic 71 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,680 exercise until things really get out there to your marketplace 72 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,760 and to your customer base as well. 73 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,640 All right, another question. Price leakage is a huge 74 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,399 challenge for companies. What are some common causes of 75 00:04:16,399 --> 00:04:19,760 price leakage and how can companies structure their 76 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:24,920 pricing models to prevent this? Well, by far, discounting is the 77 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,000 biggest contributor to price leakage. 78 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,200 Often your sales teams are getting pressure when they're 79 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,440 out in the field and that knee jerk reaction is just to give a 80 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,800 discount. It's the easy answer, but it's 81 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,200 not really addressing the underlying issue of why those 82 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,160 customers are asking for a discount anyway. 83 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,480 Is it because they're just used to asking it and used to getting 84 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,080 it? Is it just maybe you're offering 85 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,640 them more than they need and so they don't want to pay that 86 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,520 price because they don't need half of what you're giving them 87 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,560 anyway? So an example from a client we 88 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,080 worked it with before, they were an equipment manager and they 89 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,320 found manufacturer and they found that their sales reps were 90 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,840 offering discounts all across the country to different 91 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:08,120 customers and they couldn't figure out what was going on. 92 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,680 So once you started evaluating what their customers needed, we 93 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,920 were able to see that there were different needs by different 94 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,000 segments, There were different needs in different areas of the 95 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,040 country. So we were able to work with 96 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,280 them to really align their offering and the pricing that 97 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:26,440 went along with that for each segment and each region. 98 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,480 So once the sales team got equipped with that, they had all 99 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,520 the tools they needed to go out and sell and they had the right 100 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,360 price, the right product for the every situation. 101 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,440 And instantly they were starting to see that reduction in the 102 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,160 discounts that were being given. Very nice. 103 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:44,240 Yeah. Thank you for the insights 104 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,520 there, Lori. A great example of how we can 105 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,960 get everyone essentially on the same page and working together 106 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,760 there. So I appreciate that. 107 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,320 Thank you very much. And now let's talk about some of 108 00:05:55,320 --> 00:06:00,400 the strategies that help sales teams sell with confidence and 109 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,760 protect margins. So Lori, I know from our 110 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,120 dealings together and from knowing you for quite some time 111 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,480 that you are an expert in pricing analytics and how you 112 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,640 deliver customer value. How do you talk about that? 113 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,440 So with your experience in pricing model design, customer 114 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,280 value research, and some related things, tell us about some of 115 00:06:20,280 --> 00:06:24,520 the key elements that make a pricing structure effective for 116 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,800 the sales team. Sure. 117 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,560 It really comes down to understanding what your clients 118 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,840 needs are and then matching the value you provide to what those 119 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:37,600 customers are looking for. So another example for you, we 120 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,640 worked with a client that offered legal documents to their 121 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,240 customers. The problem was they kind of 122 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,440 offered instead of an all or none approach, it was an all or 123 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,960 one approach. You could pay for a monthly 124 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,320 subscription that gave you access to all of their documents 125 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,760 or you could just buy 1 document at a time as you needed it. 126 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,800 The problem was they had a lot of customers that didn't need 127 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,320 everything and didn't want to pay for it, but they needed 128 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,000 enough that buying one at a time was annoying. 129 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,320 So they were either overpaying or having a nuisance in how to 130 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:14,360 get what they needed. So this was a great project for 131 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,360 those of you pricers out there, the data nerds. 132 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,160 We were able to really get into the details of their data and we 133 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,880 started detecting patterns. So we started seeing that 134 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,480 different segments, different users tended to buy the same 135 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:32,040 types of documents and it just led to a natural fit to create 136 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,680 different offer packages to these customers. 137 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,800 So what we're hoping to do in our workshop that's coming up is 138 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,760 to give attendees this same experience. 139 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:48,200 So we're going to be able to offer them a sample case that 140 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,680 they can use, and it's going to come with their own data set so 141 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,000 they can get in there and get their hands dirty and start 142 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,880 detecting these same patterns to develop offerings. 143 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,560 And then when they're done with the conference, they can go home 144 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,080 and look at their own company's data and hopefully be able to do 145 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:07,360 the same thing to start matching the value of their offering to 146 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,200 what their clients actually need. 147 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,200 Yeah, excellent. That's a great example of 148 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,760 pricing people since we have the tendency if we're doing our jobs 149 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,320 effectively to be in the middle of everything and to be able to 150 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:26,560 take elements from overall macroeconomic data from our 151 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,680 customer responses from internal departments on what they're 152 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,240 saying. But that's a great example of 153 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,720 how a pricing team in conjunction with your work as 154 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,240 well, of course was able to create new products and new 155 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,720 services for their team. So that's something where you're 156 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,920 you have the ability to take all the information that comes to 157 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,520 you as a center of a lot of facets of the business 158 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,720 organization and use all of that essentially to move things 159 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:55,040 forward. So thank you for the example 160 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,400 there. And another question, when it 161 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,480 comes to upselling strategies, what should pricing teams be 162 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:06,240 doing differently to help sales teams align Austin, to align, 163 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,000 I'm sorry offers with that customer value? 164 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,840 So being able to provide your customers with options is really 165 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,760 important and it helps with that upsell opportunity. 166 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,600 So we often recommend kind of a good, better, best strategy, 167 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,000 which is allowing your customers an easy entry point, a way of 168 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,160 experiencing your offer and your value at that base level, but it 169 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,200 also provides options for them to move to higher value packages 170 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,120 when they need them. So a great example people could 171 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,680 relate to is if you think of all the streaming options out there, 172 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,800 you have so many choices. So first, you can choose which 173 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,200 company fits your needs. Unfortunately for me, it tends 174 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,240 to be almost all of them because every member of my family has a 175 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,320 totally different need. So I may prefer watching 176 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,160 Netflix, but my 10 year old daughter wants anything Disney. 177 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,040 So of course we have to have Disney Plus too. 178 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,920 But beyond that, once I choose those companies, I can choose 179 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:05,040 which package I want. So I can go in entry level and 180 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,600 watch the commercials and deal with those things. 181 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,360 Which for me is fine because when I grew up we had normal TV 182 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,480 and commercials were a thing. So it doesn't bother me. 183 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,200 However, my kids keep nagging me that we should upgrade because 184 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,360 they want that ad free experience. 185 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,520 But until they start contributing to that payment, 186 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:23,320 we're just going to stick where we're at. 187 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,240 So you can see, just offering different packages gives people 188 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,760 choices of where they want to be, and you can always upgrade 189 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,320 later. And this concept works the exact 190 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,000 same way with B to B as well. Everyone wants options and they 191 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,960 want to be able to align what they need with what you're 192 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:43,720 offering and what their budget is. 193 00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:47,440 Yeah, absolutely. It's a great way to let your 194 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,360 customer base help you with your own segmentation because some of 195 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,880 your, even if you're B to B, you have some people as you 196 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,080 mentioned, who are the equivalent of I only want Disney 197 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:01,160 or I only want Netflix, Netflix or I want any and all of the 198 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:02,600 above. So understood. 199 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,320 Thank you very much, Lori. Appreciate that. 200 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,600 And Travis, I know that some of your areas of expertise are 201 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:14,040 sales negotiation, capability development, amongst other 202 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,640 things there. So a couple questions for you. 203 00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:19,920 I know that you have been a trainer for quite some time. 204 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,800 You spent years coaching sales teams through negotiating with 205 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,680 backbone. What are some of the biggest 206 00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:30,480 mistakes that sales reps make when they defend their company's 207 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,360 price? Oh, I'm going to say something 208 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,680 that's a little controversial. I think one of the biggest 209 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,800 mistakes that sells people make is selling. 210 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,520 That sounds interesting. Yeah, Well, so and, and here's 211 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,240 the reason. So we have research that 212 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,440 actually backs up that customers don't engage with the sales Rep 213 00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:55,440 until they're almost 75% through the decision making process. 214 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,680 And and that seems backwards because the sales guy who knows 215 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:02,200 their business and their products better than the sales 216 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,680 guy. So why are they waiting so long 217 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:08,920 to engage with these people? And the answer is that they 218 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:10,800 don't want the sales pitch, right? 219 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,000 They know that the minute I start engaging with the sales 220 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:14,600 guy, I'm going to get this heavy pitch. 221 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,800 And I don't want that. And so they wait until they've 222 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,080 already done all the research on their own and essentially 223 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,360 decided on the solution that they want. 224 00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:27,040 And then when they engage the sales Rep, it's all just about 225 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,720 negotiating price. And then it's very hard to 226 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,480 defend your value at that point because the customers already 227 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,280 decided what the value is, that they want, what they care about. 228 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,360 And so one of the things that we spend a lot of time doing is how 229 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,560 do we engage with our customers in a different way to uncover 230 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,640 value, to uncover the needs of the customers. 231 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,520 We know that really what they're trying to do is make money. 232 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,440 So we need to understand what's the hurdles that's standing in 233 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,360 their way of making money and how do we uniquely solve that 234 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,480 problem. And then it becomes a very easy 235 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,800 process when we get to the cell stages at the end. 236 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,920 Understood. So really you are coaching teams 237 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:11,120 so much not don't be necessarily a salesperson where you think 238 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,240 kind of inside out here are my benefits, here's what we can do 239 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,600 for you, but you're kind of reversing that and saying what 240 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,840 are the issues that would work best for my customer and how can 241 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:23,920 I be the solution there. So it's really kind of a 242 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,880 solution standpoint instead of a sales standpoint, if I'm 243 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,560 understanding that correctly. That's right, you need to be. 244 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,560 You need to be more exploratory. You need to be more discovery 245 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,200 with your customer. Understood. 246 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,920 All right. And another question how can 247 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,360 organizations improve the collaboration between pricing 248 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:47,240 and sales teams so that pricing fences aren't seen as barriers, 249 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,640 but instead they could be seen as a strategic tool or an 250 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,160 initiative? Yeah. 251 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,280 So This is why I brought up that sellers need to do less selling 252 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:01,320 and more discovery. Just think about from A and 253 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:03,960 like, let's be honest, we're talking to pricing people. 254 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,440 That's who's here listening to this and they look at me and 255 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,520 say, sellers, they just cause me problems, right? 256 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,760 What would a pricer do if the salesperson came back to them 257 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,680 and said, hey, this is the problem that our customers are 258 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,640 having and this is the solution that we have. 259 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,560 Can you help me figure out how our solution is impacting their 260 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,160 business? How are we creating more revenue 261 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,120 for this? And my experience has been that 262 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,520 pricing people love to do that. They love to solve these 263 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:34,920 problems. They like to get in with the 264 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,320 data and wrap the numbers around it and come up with solutions. 265 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,520 To be honest with you, they like to do it more than the 266 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,640 salespeople do. That's why the salespeople bring 267 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,160 it to them. And then the sellers love it 268 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,160 when the pricing people go to them and say, hey, here is a 269 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,520 solution and here's some alternatives if this isn't 270 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,320 exactly what they're looking for. 271 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,480 It helps really improve the conversation that customers are 272 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,520 having with their their sellers, that buyer seller relationship. 273 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,000 And so by doing this value discovery, we we're bringing 274 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,600 what sellers can bring more insights into the organization 275 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:14,200 that pricers can use to create better solutions and options. 276 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,400 And really to Laura, to Laurie's point, it's the tools. 277 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,760 They can create more tools. So we're not sending them out 278 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,640 with a hammer and telling them fix all construction issues with 279 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:26,560 a hammer. Sometimes what you need is a 280 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,640 screwdriver. You need to just tweak this one 281 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,120 a little bit. You don't need to just keep 282 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,960 bludgeoning it over the head. And the tools that pricers can 283 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,360 create with the diversity that Lori was talking about really 284 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,920 makes that powerful. Absolutely. 285 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:42,040 Yeah. Thank you so much. 286 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,760 And I know from my experience, you know, even going back to a 287 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:50,360 certain Mr. Reed Holden and negotiating with Backbone and 288 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,680 the books that he and Jeet Mukherjee and others in your 289 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,200 organization have written, that value discovery and how you 290 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,960 handle that is such a big part of the process. 291 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,760 And it really gives us a way to be more outside in, to think 292 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:09,040 about this from our customers perspective, to use a little 293 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,520 game theory there to think if I were in their shoes, what would 294 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,240 be the things that my organization offers that would 295 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,200 be really, really value valuable to them. 296 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,520 So value discovery, as you mentioned is such a big part of 297 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:22,800 it. And that's something that 298 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,160 pricing people and revenue managers, that's something that 299 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:31,680 we can be really attuned to with our broader notions and our 300 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,400 broader knowledge of what's going on with the customer base 301 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,600 at all instead of what's just, instead of just what's going on 302 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,800 in one particular geography or sales territory or something 303 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,000 like that. It's a case where we have to be 304 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,200 more universal and say, hey, I heard something in Rhode Island 305 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:51,320 where this group of customers really valued AB and CI. 306 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,560 Wonder if in larger organizations in Texas and 307 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,240 California if that would work as well. 308 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,760 So understood. And another question for you, 309 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,880 please. In your experience, what role 310 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:06,280 does sales training and capability development play in 311 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,119 strengthening a company's overall pricing power? 312 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,960 So this is a good point you had called out earlier that you 313 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,200 know, I have all these years of working with sales team and 314 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,280 helping them do negotiating with backbone and, and and other 315 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,880 sales programs. The irony is, is that I started 316 00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:25,880 especially with Holden as a pricing analyst, kind of like 317 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,880 Lori, just not as good. And so I started off in the 318 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,240 space. So when I do sales training, 319 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:36,040 when I'm working with sales training, I'm doing it from a 320 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,240 pricer's perspective because that's what's going to help 321 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,960 create more pricing power. If they understand what's behind 322 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,760 these numbers, how to defend these numbers, and as we've 323 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,080 talked about already, how to bring insights into the 324 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,320 organization that allows pricers to give you the tool that you 325 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,600 want, we're going to them and say, sharpen your pencil, right? 326 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,640 That's what you're hearing. You hate hearing it. 327 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,160 How do you think your pricing team feels about hearing that 328 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,080 right? It keeps them up late at night 329 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,640 and they're working on stuff. They want this business to grow 330 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,800 just as much as the sellers do, pricers do. 331 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,600 And, and sellers, they all want this business to grow. 332 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:12,800 And so we need to give them more information. 333 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,320 Sharpen your pencil Where, why? Why do they care about it? 334 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,240 Why is this important to them? What do they not care about that 335 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,640 we can maybe take out? What do they really care about 336 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,120 that we need to leverage and say, hey, we're defending this 337 00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:27,320 value. It's worth it. 338 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,840 And how can we show them that what we're doing and the value 339 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:36,320 that we're creating for them is, is helping them make more money? 340 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,840 I, I do this all the time with different sales guys. 341 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,840 I asked them this question if I were to give you and I'll, So 342 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,800 I'll ask you, Kevin, if I were to tell you, hey, you give me a 343 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,520 dollar, I'll give you 5. How often would you make that 344 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,440 trade? 100% of the time and I would 345 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,760 reach for as many dollars as I can find that's. 346 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,520 Right. I would be like as fast as I 347 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,360 could be giving you dollars, I would be doing that, right? 348 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,600 That's what selling is, right? We are showing them when we do 349 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,640 good value discovery and good conversations. 350 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,760 All we're doing, and this is what Lori is really great at 351 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,080 helping us understand, is going to really call out in the 352 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:14,360 workshop that we come together with. 353 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:19,680 How do we show that the value we create is meaning that you spend 354 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,000 100,000 with us or you spend whatever with us and you're 355 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,520 going to make 2X that in the long run, right? 356 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,800 Then it makes the sales process very easy. 357 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,360 The challenge is how much confidence do they have in your 358 00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:36,920 ability to deliver that value? And that confidence comes from 359 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,000 bringing that sales and pricing team together to understand and 360 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,480 discover that messaging together. 361 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,160 Definitely, yeah. In a case like that, my credit 362 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,240 card number is 1234 and my opinion 5678. 363 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,400 Yeah. So you have much more confidence 364 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,880 in my ability to give you $5 than what I actually have. 365 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:01,880 Understood. Thank you for that. 366 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,480 I appreciate that we are beginning to come up on our time 367 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,640 allotment, but I do want to have a section for some final 368 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,960 thoughts here. So we've covered a lot of great 369 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,360 insights today. So Lori Travis, thank you so 370 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:17,720 much. But I do want to ask both of you 371 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,560 before we sign off, if there's one piece of advice you can give 372 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,920 the companies looking to strengthen their pricing power 373 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,840 through sales and enablement, what would it be? 374 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,160 And Lori, why don't we start with you? 375 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,640 Sure. I know when it comes to pricing 376 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,320 power, the key to remember is this is a team sport. 377 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,480 It's not US versus them, sales versus pricing. 378 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,400 You're on the same team, you're not competitors and you have to 379 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,240 even look at those other adjacent functions. 380 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,480 You need each other for this to work in its best way. 381 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,760 Sure, the pricing team may be like your playmakers and they're 382 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,520 coming up with all the strategies in the plays, but you 383 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,320 still need the sales team to execute. 384 00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:59,680 And then if you back up, how does pricing determine what 385 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,280 those plays are anyway? Well, they need to understand 386 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,120 what the customer's needs are and what they value. 387 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:06,680 Well, where are they going to get that? 388 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,080 Well, they're going to get it from their sales team. 389 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,880 It could come from customer service, your tech support, it 390 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,200 could be your quality department. 391 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,520 Anyone who's interacting with a customer is someone who could be 392 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,800 giving you that valuable insight into what your customers needs 393 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,800 are. So you need to get that from 394 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,920 them in order to create the right offerings, the right 395 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,080 pricing. Then you have to come back 396 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,320 around and make sure they all understand what that offering is 397 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,320 and what value you provide so they can be prepared to go out 398 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,400 there and sell it. All right. 399 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,240 Thank you very much. Appreciate that, Lori. 400 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,120 And for Travis, Sir, for you the same question. 401 00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:46,160 One piece of advice for companies looking to strengthen 402 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,960 their pricing power through sales enablement through sales 403 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,760 initiatives, please. Hey, I'm not going to argue with 404 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,520 Lori. She's a lot smarter than I am. 405 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,200 It it really is that same piece. It's that, it's that 406 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,600 collaboration and that it's that coming together which she 407 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,080 iterated so well. You know, we think about this, 408 00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:07,480 you know, if pricing were the head, right, the head doesn't go 409 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,400 anywhere if you don't have arms and legs to carry it somewhere. 410 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,600 And the teams that figure this out and start to align these 411 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,600 together, they're running races like these people are 412 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,360 accomplishing great things. These organizations are doing 413 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:21,320 well because they're aligning this. 414 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,720 And it's, it's baffling how much organizations still don't 415 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,720 coordinate this pricing sales effort. 416 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,720 And they're, they're like, to carry on the analogy, they're 417 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,800 like toddlers, like falling all over the place trying to figure 418 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,720 out how to walk because they don't have their head and their 419 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,720 arms and legs all working together. 420 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,680 So if you want to make true strides and, and really grow 421 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,240 exponentially, you need pricing power. 422 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,280 And that takes a holistic pricing sells operational. 423 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:54,080 There are lots of people that play into this, this piece of 424 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,000 true pricing power. Definitely. 425 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,360 Yes, that's great advice. And so I want to thank you so 426 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:02,080 much. But also I'm going to take one 427 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,200 second and talk about Lori and Travis here. 428 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,000 A couple interesting things. And Lori, first of all, you 429 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,960 first started coming to PPS conferences as a pricing 430 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,320 practitioner and just wanted to say that it's great someone who 431 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,480 came to us as a pricing practitioner is now leading 432 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,800 workshops. So thank you very much for your 433 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,960 long time partnership for being with us and for doing that. 434 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,880 And Travis also you as well with your experience, you know, not 435 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,960 only being a professor at a university, but also the work 436 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,240 that you do with sales teams, with negotiating, with pricing, 437 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,520 with confidence and your history there. 438 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,560 I think that the two of you together coming from somewhat 439 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,840 different parts of the business world, but coming together have 440 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,000 some great insights. So we are looking forward to 441 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,600 some wonderful information there. 442 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:56,040 Lori, Travis, thank you so much and make sure to join us at PPS 443 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,440 Profitable in Dallas coming up in May. 444 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,360 If you want to dive deeper into these strategies, make sure to 445 00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:07,400 join the great Wednesday, May 7th workshop that we have with 446 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,880 Lori and Travis entitled Equipping Sales team to build 447 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,520 pricing power. And of course, you can check our 448 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,360 website to register for that. Or if you want, you can just 449 00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:20,960 reach out to me and we can happily connect you with Lori 450 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,480 and with Travis for any other information that you need there. 451 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,880 And also make sure to subscribe to us on the Let's Talk Pricing 452 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,840 podcast on either Apple or Spotify or wherever you get your 453 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,440 podcasts. Make sure you never miss an 454 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,040 update. And Lori and Travis, thank you 455 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,840 so much. Thanks also to Alex behind the 456 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,800 scenes for working with us as well. 457 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,560 And thanks for joining us and until next time, we will sign 458 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,400 off for now, but looking forward to seeing everyone again real 459 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:51,760 soon.