1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,000 All right, hello, and thank you all once again for another 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,480 episode of the Professional Pricing Society podcast. 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,800 My name is Terrence and in today's discussion, we have a 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:13,440 very, very, very special guest with us and her name is Angie 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,400 Jackson. She is the Director of Key 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,320 Account and Marketing here at PPS and she is here with us 7 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,920 today to discuss how you all as pricers can deliver informed 8 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:28,320 marketing feedback or suggestions for forward momentum 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,320 to support your pricing initiatives. 10 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:36,000 Angie joined PPS back in 2021 and she has nearly 20 years of 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,800 experience in sales, marketing, education and project management 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,040 both locally and internationally. 13 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,120 And Prior to joining PPS, she served as a positioning 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,880 strategist with Crane Atlanta, specializing in analyzing 15 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,280 audience trends, managing creative teams, collaborating 16 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,120 with clients, and developing innovative and integrative 17 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,080 marketing strategies to distill clients unique value 18 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,480 propositions. Angie, how are we doing today? 19 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:03,480 Excellent. Hi, Terence. 20 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,840 I'm excited to be on our podcast. 21 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,560 Yes, it's a it's a pleasure to have you. 22 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:13,080 It's very, it's very nice to hear a very friendly face on 23 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:14,840 this podcast. So I'm glad to have you as well. 24 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,480 And you know, what we're talking about today is essentially the 25 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,120 bridge between pricing and marketing. 26 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,600 And what better person to spearhead this conversation than 27 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,640 someone who has been leading a career the past 20 years in 28 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,560 something as creative as as marketing and as sales and all 29 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,000 these different things that you have under your belt. 30 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,560 And so bringing it into the pricing world is, is super 31 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,920 necessary and we're glad to have you. 32 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:47,200 Thanks, Terence. So yes, pricing is AP of 33 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,080 marketing one of the PS and that's really as much as I knew 34 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:54,160 about pricing coming in. In my time at PPS, I've thought 35 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,960 about where are the intersections between pricing 36 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,400 and marketing and how do we sort of systematize some some of that 37 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,880 thinking so that we can be more collaborative. 38 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,600 You know, maybe as a price there you report to marketing. 39 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,600 How do you ensure that your marketing from a company wide 40 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,760 level supports what you're doing in pricing or really anything 41 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,160 that you're doing business wise? So I'm gonna look at this 42 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,160 through a pricing lens, but this is applicable to other aspects 43 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,120 of businesses, you know, sales, any sort of management. 44 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:32,440 How do you provide informed feedback towards the end of 45 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,160 collaboration so that the marketing supports the decisions 46 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,960 and the choices that you need to make for your business? 47 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:41,640 What's unique about being a marketer? 48 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:43,920 And Terrence, I think you'll, you'll understand this. 49 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,160 We've had conversations about this before. 50 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,600 It's, it's different from a lot of other jobs because everyone 51 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,080 encounters marketing, right? You, everybody shows TV ads, 52 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,000 those shoes that you searched for on Zappos. 53 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,800 Those start following you around when you're reading New York 54 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,720 Times articles. So we're, we're very used to 55 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,320 advertising as a form of marketing. 56 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:15,800 So what that sometimes empowers people to do is to give feedback 57 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,080 on marketing because they've encountered ads. 58 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,440 Sure, sure. And sometimes that marketing 59 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,760 isn't as informed or their feedback isn't as informed as it 60 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,480 could be. I have a lot of people who tell 61 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,040 me how to do my job because they've seen Super Bowl ads. 62 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,120 So, so that's to say a lot of marketing is subjective. 63 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,360 I don't care for The Color Purple personally. 64 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:50,560 That is my taste and that is not informed by any best practice or 65 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,720 marketing strategy. That is just my taste. 66 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:59,400 So I want to encourage people to leave matters of taste aside as 67 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,760 we think about today a rubric where we can deliver informed 68 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,480 feedback. So what are some tried and true 69 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,880 benchmarks? And I've created a little 70 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,880 acronym based upon best practices and also my experience 71 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,680 in a previous life as an account executive. 72 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,600 I received a lot of feedback and a lot of it was unhelpful 73 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,839 because it landed in that matter of taste. 74 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,000 But when we can deliver feedback based upon a shared rubric 75 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:29,680 that's evidence based, we're more likely to get traction and 76 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,680 collaboration amongst teams that can historically be relatively 77 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:39,600 siloed and get support for any change that we want to make in 78 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,360 price. You know, I'm glad also, Angie, 79 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,240 that you clarified what this conversation is all about 80 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,400 because you know, a lot of people, they do have their 81 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,600 opinions and, and they do have their preferences. 82 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,960 But like you said, there is a tried and true practice, a, a 83 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,200 template and a structure of sorts, if you will. 84 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,040 So that can lead to successful marketing, not just marketing, 85 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,800 but successful marketing that leads to change and 86 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,320 transformation within the business and, and revenue growth 87 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:10,080 and, and just a number of different aspects of the company 88 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:11,640 that can just continue to grow and increase. 89 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,840 This acronym that stands as a tried and true practice, 90 00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:20,000 especially based off of your past 20 years of experience. 91 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,360 You know, it's, it's super helpful and it's, it's the word 92 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:28,920 evaluates and I want to kind of deep dive into each letter and 93 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,160 why each, each point of this acronym. 94 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,880 You know, it's super important as it pertains to marketing. 95 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,160 If it's OK, let's go ahead and dive into what E stands for end 96 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,560 to end, which essentially is thinking with the end in mind 97 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,480 before the process even begins. So let's kind of deep dive into 98 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,480 this where, where, where does the end to end? 99 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,600 You know, what are your thoughts about this first letter? 100 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,320 You've got it and and I'm going to model actually thinking about 101 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,440 the end to end right now. So let me unpack the entire 102 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,920 acronym before I dive in. So so again, begin with the end 103 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,640 in mind. So evaluate the acronym stands 104 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:11,720 for E end to end the value proposition. 105 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:26,600 A audience L lean you unexpected a authentic T transform and E 106 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,800 experience. So they're nine points. 107 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,400 I talk fast and talk a lot. So in in order to not make this 108 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,440 a a full day workshop, I'm going to roll pretty quick. 109 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:38,800 OK, so. Let's jump into. 110 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:43,360 End to end, as you said, we'll start with E and to end that you 111 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,800 begin with the end in mind. So you think through the entire 112 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,920 transformation that you're trying to have occur in an 113 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:54,560 audience member or the audience at large before you start with 114 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,400 with small things. So let's say we are, we are 115 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,880 providing feedback on a item, a piece of a piece of marketing, 116 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:04,480 right? So whether that be a piece or an 117 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,200 ad, is whatever you're evaluating strategic or merely 118 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,560 tactical? Are we able to take whatever 119 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,160 this piece is and move them from a cold audience, right, The 120 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:19,400 sales term, A cold audience member who is unknown or 121 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,640 unfamiliar with your product or service and move them to a 122 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,200 raving fan. That's typically difficult to do 123 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,000 in one transaction. But how are we sort of setting 124 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,120 the table and meeting the audience where they are along 125 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,280 their decision journey so that this marketing or communications 126 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,000 interaction will shepherd them to the next step with us? 127 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,560 So for example, when Kevin would ask me to write a LinkedIn ad 128 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,960 for something I would personally write, which is a small, you 129 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,560 have like a teeny tiny copy count and you're doing 1 little 130 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,560 teeny tiny image. I would never do that first for 131 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,920 any item I was producing for PPS, because what I want to do 132 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,440 is think through the entire strategic arc of the 133 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,840 communications and solve the problem, the marketing problem 134 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,800 in its largest form first before I start going into any little 135 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,160 pieces. So what's the highest context 136 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,280 that we're going to be making the argument for whatever thing 137 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,200 it is, right? Let's say it's the, the, the Las 138 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,560 Vegas event that's coming up. I write the entire narrative arc 139 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,880 for that decision journey from a marketing perspective before I 140 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,040 write a teeny tiny ad. So something a predecessor, a 141 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,320 marketing mentor of mine would always say is get all of your 142 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:38,080 ingredients, your marketing ingredients out on the table 143 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,039 before you ever start cooking anything. 144 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,440 And she's right. So that includes visual 145 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,840 ingredients, strategic ingredients, tactical 146 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,920 ingredients, design ingredients, and many more. 147 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,600 I'm suggesting don't solve a marketing problem in its 148 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:54,920 smallest context. Solve it in the largest before 149 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,200 you begin because the ingredient, all of the 150 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:58,920 ingredients may teach you something. 151 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,480 Yes that you need to learn before you move on. 152 00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:04,240 That's good. And it's kind of like building a 153 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:05,320 house. Yeah. 154 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:09,080 You wouldn't just start building a house without having all the 155 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,000 necessary equipment or pieces. And so I like what you said. 156 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,680 I think a lot of companies, maybe not companies, but a lot 157 00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:20,000 of people in marketing may fall, I guess, victim to this as far 158 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:25,560 as not the thinking with the end in mind 1st and not seeing where 159 00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:28,400 this whole picture, how this whole picture looks before just, 160 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:29,840 you know, putting together the pieces. 161 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,960 And so, yeah, this is a great point starting with the end in 162 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,800 mind so that you can actually piece together everything in a 163 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,520 more of a smoother way, be able to move on to your next point, 164 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,120 which is value proposition a little bit easier. 165 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,480 Yes, agree. So with the standing for value 166 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,560 proposition, I hope all the pricers ears perk up here 167 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:53,400 because that's essentially what PPS is seeking to do right to to 168 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:58,680 not only set prices that are scientifically and creatively 169 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:02,200 backed, but also making sure they are tied to the value that 170 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,080 we bring, right? Pricing is an exchange for 171 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,680 value. So before you share I my Angie 172 00:10:08,680 --> 00:10:11,480 Jackson's recommendation is before you share a price for 173 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,360 anything, how is it tied to your value proposition? 174 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:21,120 So value proposition from a marketing lens or what's is what 175 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,120 service or product do you and only you provide? 176 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,720 So this is backed by a branding term called the category one, 177 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,280 which says, you know, if if your space, your market is too 178 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:38,240 crowded, then create a category that you can be first in. 179 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:42,400 Cirque du Soleil is an excellent example of that, right? 180 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,520 It's it's neither circus nor theater. 181 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,040 It's somewhere between both. As I was searching for who first 182 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:53,000 used the category of one term, I didn't find it. 183 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:57,120 And I was highly distracted by the example of become the 184 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,360 Beyoncé of your space when I was Googling. 185 00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:02,640 Right? Talk about pricing power. 186 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,480 Beyoncé can charge whatever. She wants right? 187 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,320 For her, for her concerts, because she she didn't follow 188 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,600 the mold and she created a category in which she can be 189 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,080 first in. It's only when you understand 190 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,760 your value can you communicate price. 191 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:19,840 Yeah, that's good. You want to know what you're 192 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,760 going to get for your book and you want to know how it's going 193 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,520 to benefit your life first. At least you should know that, 194 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,120 and that's fair. So attaching a value proposition 195 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,680 before any type of numbers are associated with anything is a 196 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:38,040 very strategic way of of moving in in the marketing world. 197 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:43,200 And, you know, it's been proven, tried and true to be successful 198 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,200 and have, you know, a higher success rates. 199 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:48,840 And so, yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that. 200 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,120 Now, also in this acronym, you have the letter A, which stands 201 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,960 for audience. Please shed some light on why 202 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,640 it's super important for everybody to kind of consider 203 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,240 their audience first when it comes to this bridge between 204 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,880 marketing and pricing. Sure thing. 205 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,440 So now that we've talked at the beginning of the end of of the 206 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,440 entire journey and we've talked about the value proposition, it 207 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,680 is mission critical to talk about audience. 208 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,800 Something that pricing and marketing both have in common is 209 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,520 that neither should start with those things. 210 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:27,360 It's to start with the audience. We don't get to price nor market 211 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,520 in a vacuum. Instead we are marketing to and 212 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,800 pricing for humans either collectively or individually. 213 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:41,280 So how do we think about those humans in A at least two pronged 214 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:42,760 approach? I can talk about audience all 215 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,800 day. When it comes to two pronged 216 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,280 approach, demographics have to be involved, right? 217 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,000 So demographics are things like where do they live? 218 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,680 How old are they? You know, just, you know, the, 219 00:12:54,840 --> 00:13:00,560 the quantitative items that we can know about our audience 220 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:02,080 members. Then we move into the more 221 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,040 qualitative items or I would call psychographics. 222 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,000 What are their beliefs? What are their pain points? 223 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,800 What are their opinions, right, not based on facts? 224 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,520 What, what are their personalities like, habits, 225 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,240 lifestyle and probably most importantly, what's their value 226 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,920 system? Both those or all of those items 227 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,360 need to be taken into consideration when pricing to 228 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,600 them and to marketing to them. So anytime we're evaluating a 229 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,240 marketing piece, whether we're pricers or someone in a 230 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,040 marketing adjacent role or even just in a business role, we 231 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,560 think about who is the audience for this item and what do they 232 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:40,680 value? What do they care about? 233 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:45,920 What systems, thinking systems, feeling systems are they 234 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,400 bringing to the table when they engage with whatever this piece 235 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,040 is, you know, digital, print, whatever. 236 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,480 And how is this marketing responding appropriately to 237 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,160 them? If I were writing something or 238 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,440 designing something for a Boston cop, let's say, who was nearing 239 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:06,720 retirement, that would look and sound wildly different than some 240 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,240 Atlanta millennial, you know, southern suburban baseball mom, 241 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,480 right? So I think about the archetype 242 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,000 of the human I'm trying to talk to when I write something or 243 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,800 design something. The strategy should be different 244 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,640 for those two people. And, you know, I know that's 245 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:27,120 super stereotypical. And please, I apologize for how 246 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,800 stereotypical that sounds, but we would give a very different 247 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,400 strategy or a very different message and probably meet them 248 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:37,640 at a very different medium than we would, you know, if we were 249 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,080 trying to talk to them both from an audience perspective. 250 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,600 Something I've learned in my career is that if you're trying 251 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,440 to talk to two very different audiences at once, you can't 252 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,360 talk to them both well. So you need to pick an audience 253 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,800 hierarchy. If I'm trying to speak to the 254 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,080 both those people, I need to begin with a message that would 255 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,440 appeal to them both and then pretty quickly bifurcate, which 256 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:05,120 is what it's amazing about AI technology and, you know, the 257 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,280 technologies that we have to be able to segment audiences, which 258 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,080 is the lever that we pull in pricing as well. 259 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:16,080 So how are we meeting our people clearly defined where they are 260 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,040 both physically, mentally and emotionally needs to be taken 261 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:20,040 into consideration. Yeah. 262 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,960 That's super important. Essentially, the audience is the 263 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,560 target and you need to know where the target is before you 264 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,000 shoot the arrow. And obviously you, you and I 265 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,720 both know that if we are marketing a service or product 266 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,080 to an audience that is in need of it or, or has a strong 267 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,160 interest in. And obviously we're going to 268 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,840 hold their attention for a lot longer than another audience who 269 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,840 may think it's cool, but they're not necessarily in the need of 270 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,800 it or they may not even find it that interesting in the 1st 271 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,760 place. And so, yeah, knowing your 272 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,280 audience is super, super important. 273 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,000 Definitely the first step in the direction of a successful 274 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,600 marketing campaign and a successful marketing strategy. 275 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,920 Just kind of have an idea and having an idea of knowing where 276 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,720 your target is. Some I'm super glad that you 277 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,840 kind of out lied demographics and especially psychographics, 278 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,440 because one of the things, especially in the marketing 279 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,840 world, as you already know, is emotion. 280 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,880 You know, and how a product or a service makes someone feel. 281 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:26,520 And that alone can be enough to allow them to become a member or 282 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,000 to subscribe or to purchase a product or a service. 283 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,920 So this is great. We'll talk more about that when 284 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,720 I when I get to the end in experience. 285 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:37,440 But people don't remember what you say. 286 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:38,800 They remember how you made them feel. 287 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,480 Very, very true. OK, awesome. 288 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:47,120 Now, the arrow in this acronym stands for LEAN, and you know 289 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,200 this, I'll let you kind of cover this ground as far as this LEAN 290 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,280 is concerned, but tell us about why it's important that we need 291 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,160 to become an editor. Yes, I get really excited about 292 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:02,800 this and I get very covetous or type messaging. 293 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,359 Concise gravity. If you can say it in five words, 294 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,119 you should, not ten. So L stands for lean. 295 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,640 You need an editor. Everybody needs an editor now 296 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,000 more than ever. Whether we like it or not, we 297 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,520 live in a TikTok world. Important data point. 298 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,440 I heard, I think it was last month, that people are 20% more 299 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,760 likely to engage in content the shorter it is. 300 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,040 Shorter better, man. Shorter is better. 301 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:33,280 If you're writing a web page, for example, and you have 251 302 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,880 words, that's too long. It needs to become two pages. 303 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,880 My rule about blogs, we just talked about this this morning. 304 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:40,880 If it's 501 words, it's too long. 305 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,320 It needs to become an article. We need to call the thing what 306 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,760 it is and have have the medium support that length. 307 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:53,800 If I go to YouTube and I see a video is 2 minutes and one 308 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,360 second long, I'm not watching it. 309 00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:59,800 It's too long. I know that people spend 140% 310 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,120 longer on web pages with videos than without. 311 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:09,080 So it's a it's a video space. Short videos are king. 312 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:15,160 Short words are are also king. Now there is time and space for 313 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,600 long form. My husband, for example, will 314 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:22,240 listen to a three hour podcast. I am never going to listen to a 315 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,840 three hour ever. But my husband will cheerfully 316 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,520 do that. So some of this is a matter of 317 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,640 taste, right? Back to taste, but in order to 318 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,200 maximize your messages market share, leaner is better when in 319 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,560 doubt. Leaner is better if you have to 320 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,600 do something in long form, which there is time and space for. 321 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,560 I can't, for example, pretty quickly explain quantum physics. 322 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,520 You know, but. I need more than 250 words to do 323 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:52,760 that. If I can do that, which is 324 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,880 another another podcast. If you must do something in long 325 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:02,560 form, however you define that it is wise to leave bread crumbs 326 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,120 for folks so that if I'm going to encounter your long form 327 00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:13,600 piece, I can engage in that piece either as so I'm going to 328 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,920 use a metaphor, a bite, a snack or a meal. 329 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:22,040 So let's let's take the Las Vegas brochure for example. 330 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,680 If if I am someone who is going to read that thing from 331 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:31,920 beginning to end and digest every world word, fantastic. 332 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,560 They are going to engage with that content as if it were a 333 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,600 meal. Now, as someone who creates this 334 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,880 brochure, I am fully aware that not everybody is going to read 335 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,120 that thing from beginning to end and engage with it as a meal. 336 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:51,440 So how am I leaving visual and editorial bread crumbs about 337 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:55,680 that piece so that if somebody wants to engage that as a snack 338 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,320 level, right? If they want to engage that with 339 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,160 that piece for a couple of minutes and not read every word, 340 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,800 how are they getting the most salient points at a browse 341 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,280 level? We do that with, you know, 342 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,160 headlines, colors, lots of different tools. 343 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,400 But I am fully aware that long form pieces will sometimes be 344 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,720 engaged with as a snack form. Same goes for bite form. 345 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,960 If someone is going to take that brochure and scan it, truly scan 346 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,720 it, flip it right, flip the flip book, then how? 347 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:32,240 How am I leaving bread crumbs or visual and editorial markers for 348 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,880 them so they can still take the salient points if they're going 349 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,360 to engage with it for 30 seconds? 350 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:42,240 So not only are we lean when possible, simple and concise, 351 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,640 but when we aren't, and when we shouldn't be and need to do 352 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,200 something in long form, are we mindful that the audience that 353 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,040 we just spoke about is able to engage with that content and 354 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:57,880 still see the most salient points brought to them very 355 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,880 transparently and easily? You know, as it pertains to just 356 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,160 being lean, you you talk about there's two things that I want 357 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,600 to kind of emphasize in this part of the acronym alone. 358 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,840 Bread crumbs, snacks and meals. It's one thing to be able to 359 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,440 leave. When you say bread crumbs, my 360 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,600 first thought goes to leaving a bread crumb that would make 361 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,640 somebody salivate at the mouth to want more. 362 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,320 So that's that's one way of looking at a breadcrumb. 363 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,000 Another way of looking at a breadcrumb is having the ability 364 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:35,320 to condense to that level to that's like small of a size to 365 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,680 where somebody can get what they need. 366 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,960 And then, you know, keep it moving on to the next piece of, 367 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:43,680 of, of media to, to, you know, consume. 368 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:50,640 And so, you know, we do live in a microwave world where if we 369 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,960 don't get what we want within two minutes, yeah, we're not 370 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,200 going to watch it at all. And so, and then some people, 371 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,320 they want to salivate at the mouth for more. 372 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,720 And so a snack bite or a snack will be exactly what they need 373 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:07,160 to keep them coming back. And so I think both should be 374 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,720 utilize as best as possible and as strategically as possible, 375 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,480 but it should also, this goes back to audience. 376 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,680 It's also important to know our audience as well to be able to 377 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:22,520 understand are they wanting more and more or do they want, do 378 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,520 they want everything in in the snack or in a bite size or in a 379 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,040 home meal? Does that make sense? 380 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,240 Yeah, I love that it's it's Amazon Prime Day. 381 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:37,720 I want it is, and so does everybody else in the world. 382 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:44,560 It takes discipline. I can write 1000 words about 383 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:51,560 whatever, anything very quickly. Writing 150 words takes much 384 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:52,880 longer. Yeah, it does. 385 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,640 Which is some in some ways counterintuitive. 386 00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:02,240 I don't need to tell the entire story because it doesn't always 387 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,600 speak to the audience's listen listening. 388 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,800 What are the most salient points that move the per the person 389 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,960 that you're speaking with or move the people you are speaking 390 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,080 with to the next step along the decision journey? 391 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,280 That's the rubric and that's the discipline we're trying to find. 392 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,000 That's good one. One more piece on this lane 393 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,520 before I move. Move on. 394 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,840 I have a friend who he and I watched similar Netflix shows 395 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:33,560 but I will consume every minute of every episode and he skims 396 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,440 the 1st 3 minutes the first 2-3 minutes of each episode to get 397 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,120 the gist of what's going to happen. 398 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,920 And if it isn't, if it doesn't get the gist and the 1st 2 two 399 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,120 to three minutes per episode, he says it's not a good show. 400 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,560 And I'm over here like, well, you missed all this context, you 401 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,200 know, but that's what he's looking for. 402 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:52,200 And this is what I'm looking for. 403 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,720 It's it's so it's important to, you know, understand your 404 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,080 audiences in in that regard. As far as who's going to skim, 405 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,000 who's going to really consume everything. 406 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,640 I'm really glad you you brought this this lean point. 407 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:03,960 I want to go back to something you just said because it was 408 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,000 really important. Listen to how two people of 409 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,840 approximately the same age, right, probably approximately 410 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,840 the same demographics, would engage with the same content in 411 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,080 two very different ways. I think you and I have similar 412 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:23,840 demographics on a lot of levels. My rubric and the one in my 413 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:29,360 house is that you watch 3, three episodes of anything, you must 414 00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:31,840 watch 3. Then you decide whether to 415 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,240 continue or to abort. You know, which is an entirely 416 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:40,000 different way of looking at it. So listen to how how that's very 417 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,760 different. Terrence is a meal guy. 418 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,360 I'm going to have an appetizer. I'm always going to have an 419 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:50,480 appetizer, but I don't know if I'm down for the whole meal and 420 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,680 and your buddy is is bite all the way. 421 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,080 He's a bite size. Yep, Yep. 422 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,040 And that's. Go ahead. 423 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:56,400 I'm sorry. Yeah. 424 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,040 It it just seems like it's a perfect example of what I'm 425 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,720 talking about, how people are going to engage with your 426 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,000 content. How are you thinking about those 427 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,720 meal, snack, bite or appetizer which would probably need to add 428 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,120 to this people very differently? Yeah, yeah. 429 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:15,520 And it's, it's also kind of speaks to why it's important to 430 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,800 put the, the meat and potatoes are things kind of in the front, 431 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,000 you know, versus at the end or even in the middle. 432 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,080 So we can explain the more important things up front for a 433 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,520 conference example. Hey, this is who's going to be 434 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,240 speaking. These are the topics we'll be 435 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:30,840 speaking on. These are the trending topics, 436 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,240 the hot topics. And you know, this is what the 437 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,120 benefit is that you can receive as a pricer. 438 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,600 And then the rest of everything else can us be explaining, you 439 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,200 know why this is important, the significance behind it, what it 440 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,800 can do for your, for your career and your and your just general 441 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,680 knowledge as a pricer. Let's push the one, the metaphor 442 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,240 once further and then we'll let it go. 443 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:51,720 Because I don't want to overshoot the metaphor. 444 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:57,000 Think about you, your bike guy, and me. 445 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:05,120 You can have the most fantastic meat and potatoes and maybe 446 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:10,720 earth shattering dessert, but three of two of the three of us 447 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,760 are never going to make a dessert to dessert. 448 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:14,880 Never. You know. 449 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,840 So be careful about crushing the appetizer. 450 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:21,920 Yes. OK. 451 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:23,480 I like, that's good. That's good. 452 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,080 OK, now the unexpected what? What is so important and 453 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,560 significant about being aware and mindful of the unexpected as 454 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,280 it pertains to the bridge between pricers and and 455 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,640 marketing? I believe, and marketing best 456 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,600 practice would believe, that any type of communication should 457 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,640 teach me something with all the information that's at my 458 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,720 fingertips that I can find. Anything that you're going to 459 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,560 feed me needs to teach me something new about you or your 460 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,560 company or your values. I'll push that one step further 461 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,240 and even better yet, not only teach me something, but make me 462 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:06,280 think. Marketing should meet the 463 00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:10,680 audience at a space in which they are inquisitive about 464 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,160 something. We don't want to hammer home 465 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,200 facts and features, but instead a better lever is to pose 466 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:24,800 questions, to engage the inner discerner in the audience 467 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,040 member, Right? Engage the thinking, the 468 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:32,320 thinker, the feeler, and you do that through asking questions, 469 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,160 benefit statements, other communication tools, rather than 470 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:41,680 just listing facts. Communication should when it has 471 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,520 an element of surprise, it gets you out of the clutter, the 472 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,960 marketing clutter, and into hearts and minds. 473 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,680 So here's an example. For the rest of 24/20/24, I set 474 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,520 this own challenge for myself that anything I write to our 475 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:02,640 audience needs to include something new, something new 476 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:07,200 that they don't yet know. Not only does that push our 477 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:12,360 marketing forward, but it also pushes our company forward into 478 00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:16,440 innovation and thinking. So some examples of that just, 479 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,720 you know, between I when I set that rule in June and now is 480 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,240 that we've included all breakout panels on Fridays for our Las 481 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,240 Vegas conference, right? Switching from Sage on a stage 482 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,120 engagements to on Friday, they're all breakout panels to 483 00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:34,160 foster more discussions and collaboration and include more 484 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:39,240 thinking, more thinkers in the event, we added another day to 485 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,760 Europe, to our European and global event that's happening in 486 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,240 Berlin in November. So it's not a three day 487 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,000 conference, it's a four. Again, more thinking, more 488 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,800 thinkers and more collaboration by adding an entire day that way 489 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,680 our marketing isn't same old, same old. 490 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,080 Our events aren't same old, same old, same old, same old because 491 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,960 we know now since the pandemic and, and more than ever that the 492 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,640 innovators are the ones that are winning. 493 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,040 It's true when it comes to marketing, It's true when it 494 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,800 comes to programming. It's it's true when it comes to 495 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,240 product design and offering and it's true when it comes to 496 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,520 pricing. Innovators when companies don't 497 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,840 want to get left behind. As innovation continues, 498 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,160 companies continue to evolve. And if you're not keeping up 499 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,280 with the times, even even if it's not just keeping up with 500 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,520 the times, but even if, if you're not continuing to add a 501 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:34,120 new element in the mix, then people will lose interest. 502 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,080 So, and that is a very true and real thing. 503 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,800 And so I want to move on to authenticity. 504 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,560 This is, this might be my favorite point of your acronym. 505 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,640 Yeah, authenticity because it speaks to me And, and I, I think 506 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,800 that's in today's society, in today's world, when it comes to 507 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:56,600 marketing or when it comes to even influencing, you can kind 508 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:01,000 of sometimes spot out the fakers from those who are, you know, 509 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,400 legitimate and true and know what they're actually talking 510 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,800 about it. It kind of speaks to credibility 511 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,640 as well. And so if let's let's go ahead 512 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,200 and dive into authenticity or being authentic behind your 513 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,840 marketing if you want to kind of take the reins on this. 514 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,120 I love what you said about being able to sniff out something 515 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:24,400 that's inauthentic. I think that we all depending on 516 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,800 your personality and your, again, your tastes and 517 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,400 preferences, but everybody can smell something that's 518 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,920 inauthentic and you have a natural allergic reaction to 519 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:39,280 that. Authenticity leads to 520 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,200 credibility. Those those are tied hand in 521 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,320 hand. When I see something that seems 522 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,440 authentic, I'm more likely to deem that credible. 523 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,480 I'll talk about authenticity kind of on a baseline level and 524 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,520 then I'll talk about what I really mean by authenticity. 525 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,000 So as you said, it sort of goes without saying, but sometimes 526 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,840 you can't go without saying. Is your message true? 527 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,360 We don't put statements out there with promises we can't 528 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,080 keep. So I would define a marketing 529 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:14,040 problem by expectations set by communication, right? 530 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,840 Expectations set not matching the experience, the lived 531 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,000 experience of your product or service. 532 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,560 So by putting a statement out there with a promise I can't 533 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:29,440 keep, I am accidentally creating a marketing problem or not 534 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:34,400 solving one that I already have. So expectations must that I set, 535 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,800 that we set as marketers must match the experience, the lived 536 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,800 experience of our audience through into our product. 537 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,240 So when you talk about authenticity more traditionally, 538 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,280 who are you and why should people do business with you? 539 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,640 People do businesses with people. 540 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,520 People don't do businesses with businesses. 541 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,480 I know AI is changing the game with that, but I know when I am 542 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:03,080 engaging with AI, I am not doing business with the person. 543 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,040 When I am engaging with a business that is outside of that 544 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,280 construct, I anticipate engaging with people. 545 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,040 So I would encourage anyone who is writing or designing on 546 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,760 behalf of an organization or giving feedback on writing or 547 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,000 design, to not be afraid to show some personality to set you 548 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:29,240 apart. Setting yourself apart is the 549 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,920 element of differentiation, which is something we understand 550 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,000 as pricers and we understand as marketers. 551 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:39,920 That's a commonality, right? The way you can work towards 552 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,920 differentiation is not only the words you choose, but also the 553 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:48,040 tone and the voice through which you express those words and the 554 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:53,840 look and feel of the materials it needs to sound like you as an 555 00:32:53,840 --> 00:33:00,720 institution. So when Lululemon is engaging 556 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,240 with their audience through editorial, that needs to look 557 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,720 and sound a lot different than Walmart because their audiences 558 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:12,800 are different and they should portray their differentiation in 559 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,880 the way that they speak and be authentically them. 560 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,720 The PPS voice, for example, is something that we've established 561 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:25,400 as being friendly, accessible, but smart and conversational. 562 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:30,520 So how do you hold those different values as an 563 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:36,400 institutional voice intention not only for one person who's 564 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,480 writing that, but also globally, anyone who's writing on behalf 565 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,000 of the organization? Yeah, that's. 566 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,040 Good differentiation is truly in the nuances of word and. 567 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,840 Design, even with authenticity reviews can speak to this if you 568 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,880 want. My wife and I recently went to a 569 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,320 new restaurant, but one of the things she always does is she 570 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,320 looks at the reviews first. If she's buying something from 571 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,960 Amazon, which she does a lot, she looks at reviews first, you 572 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,920 know, and obviously not every company can have a system where 573 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,719 they just gather and accumulate reviews, But obviously reviews 574 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,600 can shed the, the true light of a company authenticity, being 575 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,400 able to kind of sniff out the fake, the frauds from those who 576 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:22,280 are legit and this giving the space to be relatable to a 577 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,600 consumer. And I'm, I'm, you know, super 578 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,199 glad that PPS kind of stands on the on one of the foundational 579 00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:31,080 pieces of being authentic with, you know, their members as well 580 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,040 as their attendees at their conferences. 581 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:40,800 So the T in evaluates stands for transform just like you did with 582 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,960 being authentic and all the other letters in this acronym 583 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,000 kind of elaborate and go in a bit more depth about what 584 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,480 transform means to this acronym evaluate and why it's super 585 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,679 important. Sure. 586 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:59,480 So transform takes the end to end that we started with and and 587 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,120 pushes it a little further. So let me establish a couple of 588 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:08,000 terms before I move forward. These are the definitions that 589 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,640 I've held on to about my career and I think they'll they'll use 590 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,360 they'll be useful as some table setting here. 591 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,080 Marketing is communication that's designed to sell. 592 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,720 OK. So it is that is different from 593 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,440 communication and that is different from selling. 594 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,080 It is communication that is designed to sell. 595 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,360 So a second definition we'll use here is branding, how we define 596 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,440 branding. And that's the space you occupy 597 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,720 in somebody's mind. So when I say Nike, you think 598 00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:43,720 of, you think of something, whether that's something 599 00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:48,800 visually, a human being, emotion that's evoked, you think of 600 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,960 something. And that space is the brand. 601 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:52,760 That's not the same as your logo. 602 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,160 I've been teaching this to people. 603 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:56,920 For. Years, right? 604 00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,520 I'm sure you have two, Terence. So how do we use marketing and 605 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,480 branding to move people along the decision journey with you? 606 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,800 So for example, when I say can of Coke, you might think of soft 607 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,200 drinks. I'm going to use 2 examples from 608 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,760 Atlanta cuz we're here. Is that just a soft drink? 609 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:19,520 No, what they want you to think it's bubbly satisfaction with a 610 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:25,880 boost of joy and energy, right? So how is their messaging in 611 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,280 line with this is a soft drink, right? 612 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,600 A feature naming the thing. But instead this is bubbly 613 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,880 satisfaction with a boost of joy and energy. 614 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:41,440 How is it tying emotions, visuals, pictorial sensations? 615 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,640 Not only pictorial sensations, visual sensations, but when I 616 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,280 say bubbly satisfaction, you can start getting taste and feeling 617 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,040 involved. It's trying to leverage all of 618 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,640 the senses. And how do you engage with the 619 00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,640 product at more than a feature level? 620 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,960 So a Home Depot example, does Home Depot sell nails and wood? 621 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,800 Yeah, Yeah, they sell nails and wood. 622 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,680 That's a feature, right? Home Depot and Atlanta company. 623 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,080 But in their marketing communication designed to sell 624 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,720 as I just defined, and in their branding, the space that you 625 00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:20,640 occupy in someone, someone's mind, they're more after that. 626 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:25,240 They are a solution to bring to life your dreams while you put 627 00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:28,600 your own personal touches on your home, leaving your mark on 628 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,520 the place where you sleep and raise your family. 629 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,240 That's crazy, That's crazy. That's awesome. 630 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:40,280 Exactly. So how are we transforming and 631 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,480 transformative with our communication, with the 632 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:48,360 intention to sell and with the intention to truly occupy space 633 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:53,360 in somebody's mind, reach people's pain points, reach 634 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:59,680 people into people's dreams and values, and more closely tie my 635 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,600 communication to those things rather than the features of the 636 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,720 of the item? That's the magic sauce. 637 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:08,680 You've got it. Even even thinking about 638 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,000 Coca-Cola, I used to think about those commercials, those Coke 639 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,480 commercials where, where you'll see somebody drinking a Coke and 640 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:20,480 the sun shines, you know, or, or a, a, a smile comes on their, 641 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,280 their face. Whatever the case is like they, 642 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,880 they allude to an experience you have with that product. 643 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:32,080 They they really hammer down on painting this picture that your 644 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,040 experience here is going to be worth it. 645 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,200 And having wording, like you said before, communication is 646 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,920 one thing, but transforming your sometimes the literal wording, 647 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:49,640 transforming your communication into this descriptive experience 648 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,480 that's going to leave you better, you know, leave you 649 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,840 stronger, leave you more equipped than you first walked 650 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,400 in the door with. You know, that's the whole name 651 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,000 of the game in in this regard, it sounds like. 652 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,840 Is that correct? Yes, you've got it. 653 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,440 We're we're changing hearts and minds in order to move people 654 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,480 along the decision journey with us, which is exactly what 655 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,040 communication designed to sell needs to do. 656 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,200 Which also kind of brings us to our last letter, which in this 657 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,520 acronym, which is E and it stands for experience, which 658 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,440 kind of alludes to, to transform, you know, feel free 659 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,680 to share a bit about experience and why it's such a pivotal 660 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,320 point and a great ending to this, to this word evaluate. 661 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:34,680 Sure. Thanks for hanging in here guys 662 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,000 with me on the nine step rubric. We're on the last step 663 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,520 experience. I get excited about marketing. 664 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,320 I could talk about this all day. So now more than ever, marketing 665 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:52,280 is about creating an experience. And we also talked earlier about 666 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,600 how we need to be lean in doing so. 667 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,920 So I would I would pose that the quickest and most compelling way 668 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,880 to engage an audience into an experience is to tell a story. 669 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,920 You hear a lot about storytelling and marketing from 670 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,600 where I sit, I think people lean a little too heavily into it as 671 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:16,560 the as the strategic reason. However, it's very difficult to 672 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,120 communicate. Values tied to benefits and 673 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,400 outcomes without telling a story. 674 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,560 Just as you said earlier, we are trying to create more networking 675 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,840 experiences, more community experiences. 676 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,160 Because I think that the pandemic more than anything 677 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,520 taught us that being in in isolation isn't awesome, 678 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,120 especially for two extroverts like Terrence and myself. 679 00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:47,240 So So how do we engage and put proof in the pudding with with 680 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:50,480 our products and services? Testimonials are an incredible 681 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,120 lever and also telling our own stories. 682 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,800 Stories involve a narrative arc with a beginning, middle, climax 683 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,280 and resolution. And in doing so, how do we paint 684 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:05,080 a picture of what your product and service will do for your 685 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,960 defined audience? We drive what's in the 686 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,680 audience's mind, right when we talked about branding by 687 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,800 creating it that creating a picture of what our product and 688 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,360 service will do for folks and then sharing that. 689 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,320 So when thinking about branding and thinking about experience, 690 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:27,560 first you gain mind share, then you gain market share in 691 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,200 leveraging testimonials, just like you said with your wife and 692 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,240 the Amazon products. I'm much the same way. 693 00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:34,200 I'm not going to go to a restaurant until I've read the 694 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:38,320 reviews, especially a nice one where the price is high, right 695 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,680 prices. I'm not going to purchase, you 696 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,280 know, Bose headphones again, it's Amazon Prime Day until I I 697 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,640 know that those are the those are highly reviewed receive high 698 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,760 reviews. Word of mouth is always your 699 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,280 best marketing. That has not changed in my time. 700 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,960 I don't see that changing anytime soon. 701 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,160 And that's been the tale as old as time. 702 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:02,480 Stories evoke emotion, and that's when you've got hearts 703 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,440 and minds to change. Transactional marketing leads to 704 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,800 transactional customers. I'm coming from to you. 705 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,800 I want your thing buy. Yes. 706 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:19,280 Right, that is not what creates long term buyers or raving fans. 707 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,400 Experience. Marketing creates experiences 708 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,480 for folks that are loyal and buy more. 709 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:32,800 Transactional marketing increase transactional customers, man, 710 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,640 that's a, that's a nice quote right there, Ange. 711 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,360 Right. And experiential marketing 712 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,280 creates experiential customers. Yes, yes. 713 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,040 Awesome. OK, so the nine step process for 714 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,680 pricers to deliver informed marketing feedback or 715 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:52,240 suggestions for Intel to support their pricing initiative 716 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,520 evaluate is the acronym. Angie Jackson, it was a pleasure 717 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,600 to speak with you today. We're going to see you again 718 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,840 this upcoming fall in Las Vegas and that is going to be at our 719 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,400 fall conference, obviously being held in October 22nd through the 720 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,000 25th at our fall pricing and workshop conference. 721 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,000 Super excited to see everyone who's going to be in attendance 722 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,960 there and you'll also see myself as well as Angie there. 723 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,160 Angie, one more question to leave you with. 724 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,560 Where can listeners go to to learn more about you, what you 725 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,200 stand for, and more about PPS as well? 726 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,360 Sure. Happy to engage in conversations 727 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,160 about marketing or about pricing or about anything really. 728 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,080 I love to talk about marketing. So send me a message and we can 729 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:38,560 keep the conversation going. angie@pricingsociety.com or on 730 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,160 LinkedIn. Angie Jackson, I'm a C P/E 731 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:46,040 Certificate of Pricing Education on LinkedIn and looking forward 732 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,440 to hearing more and hearing how this is helpful and continuing 733 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,320 to push the conversation. Awesome. 734 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,200 Well, thank you so much once again. 735 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,200 And listeners, until next time, we'll see you then. 736 00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:58,360 Have a good one. Bye bye.