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All right, hello, and thank you 
all again for tuning into 

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another episode of the 
Professional Pricing Society 

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podcast. 
My name is Terrence and today 

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we're going to be discussing the
top three levers for building 

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pricing power. 
And our special guests we have 

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today are Adnan Akbari and Tong 
Yang, both withholding Advisor 

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advisors. 
Adnan has 20 years of experience

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in consultative and in house 
roles across energy management, 

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technology and insurance, 
leading growth initiatives 

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within Fortune 500 companies 
focused on building pricing 

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organizations, service offering,
development and sales strategy. 

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And he also has an MBA from the 
Tepper School of Business at 

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Carnegie Mellon University. 
And Tom Yang, a senior pricing 

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consultant. 
And his expertise is in 

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strategic pricing analytics and 
project execution with 

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experience across manufacturing,
distribution accounts and 

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software. 
He also has an MBA from 

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Weatherhead School of Management
at Case Western Reserve 

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University. 
And gentlemen, how are we doing 

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today? 
Doing great, excited to be here.

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Excellent. 
Good, good. 

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Super excited to have you both 
and you guys are going to be 

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conducting this discussion ahead
of your upcoming session at our 

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Vegas conference is going to be 
taking place this October 22nd 

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through the 25th. 
Super excited to have you both 

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at our pricing conference coming
up in the fall. 

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To learn more about that, you 
can visit our website, 

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pricingsociety.com and visit the
conferences tab or let's go 

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ahead and discuss the top three 
levels for building pricing 

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power. 
It's such an interesting topic. 

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I'll go ahead and jump into our 
our questions and our 

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discussion. 
How would you both define what 

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pricing power it looks like? 
I love this question just 

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because it there's so many 
tentacles that come about from 

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this. 
When we talk about, when we hear

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about pricing power, the the 
natural interpretation. 

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I think one of the things that 
Warren Buffett had previously 

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said was if you have a business 
that has the ability to raise 

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prices without losing customers 
to a competitor, that is 

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indicative of you having pricing
power. 

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And I'm paraphrasing a little 
bit there. 

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And generally speaking, that 
makes sense. 

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But the challenge tends to be, 
OK, you raise prices, you've 

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done it once and you know, 
perhaps you're, you're, you're 

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not going to lose any customers.
But the, the real question to me

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is how do you build and sustain 
pricing power over time? 

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And that's, that's a vastly more
complex answer. 

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And what we often advise our 
clients and communicate in the 

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market is that to truly have 
pricing power and to build and 

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sustain pricing power, you need 
to continually offer incremental

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value to your customers. 
And therefore you would then 

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have the ability to increase 
prices because it's a fair 

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exchange. 
Then you are you are offering 

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incremental value in exchange 
for for more price. 

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But the question of how to do 
that is significantly more 

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complex because in order to 
continue to provide your value, 

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your broader organization has to
work together like a well oiled 

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machine with the intention of 
increasing pricing power and 

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therefore realizing growth over 
time. 

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Anything add there Tom? 
Yeah, that's totally agree. 

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And I think really it's about 
how to build a sustainable 

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profitable business over time. 
By having pricing power you are 

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able to do that at having long 
term success. 

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OK, good, very good. 
Now, you know, you mentioned 

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that adjusting prices without 
understanding pricing power has 

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a potential to lead customer 
churn, kind of dive a little bit

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deeper into this. 
What does that exactly mean in 

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your opinion and how can you 
elaborate more about this? 

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Yeah. 
That's another super interesting

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topic because, you know, we 
talked to a number of different 

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companies out there. 
And particularly at times like 

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now where things are somewhat 
volatile, meaning that there's a

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lot of companies out there that 
saw a significant upswing via 

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the after effects of COVID, 
perhaps due to things like 

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supply chain constraints coming 
out of that. 

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So they had the ability to 
really grow their business and 

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price was a lever that they had 
historically pulled. 

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And now we're seeing some of the
after effects of that where the 

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market's like, well, you know, 
there's been some historically 

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larger increases and perhaps 
there was more willing to pay 

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because of supply chain 
constraints and things are 

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starting to normalize now. 
So the the question, the the 

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core of the question that often 
comes about and the reason we 

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often reference churn is because
the number one risk when you're 

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going in and trying to capture 
the level of pricing power that 

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you have via price changes is 
are we going to lose customers? 

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How much of A risk is that? 
How do we manage our business in

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such a way where, yeah, we know 
that we're charging fair value 

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for what we have, but at the 
same time, nobody likes to pay 

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more for something that they 
previously paid a certain amount

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for. 
So how do we navigate the waters

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in such a way where we're 
minimizing that risk of churn 

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and then growing that symbiotic 
relationship friendship with 

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with our customers. 
And to us, it's a matter of 

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going in and under one, 
understanding the pricing power 

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you have by understanding the 
total value that you offer your 

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customers and then creating a 
right price structure and kind 

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of that right organization that 
is centered around value. 

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So you can minimize that risk. 
And then the last piece is being

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able to come effectively 
communicate that in in the 

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marketplace because I think that
last element is where companies 

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realize that they are highly 
differentiated, but their 

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customers may not fully realize 
it. 

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So then you have to go in and 
make sure that you are 

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effectively communicating that 
value. 

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So and all of those things come 
together through an effective 

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pricing strategy that can really
start to minimize that risk of 

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losing customers. 
I think add a little bit more. 

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It's about your ability to set 
price confidently and ability to

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set price that is, that is that 
fits the market well. 

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And if you have good price 
setting and confidently setting 

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your price, you should be able 
to not have those issues that 

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you just mentioned where there's
customer churn and things like 

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that. 
So that's a part of 

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understanding how to set the 
price, is part of understanding 

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your customer, understanding the
market environment, things like 

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that. 
OK, understandable. 

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Now, when you when you consider 
pricing power, how can companies

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assess their pricing power 
versus things like their market 

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alternatives? 
Yeah, I think I can take that 

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one. 
So if you pricing power is 

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really about understanding your 
differential value and creating 

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differentiated value and then 
also being able to execute on 

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that to execute your pricing so 
that you can capture those 

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different that differentiated 
value. 

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So part of how to assess this 
really is about looking within 

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your organization and also 
looking at the market. 

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So if we look at it back into 
looking within your 

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organization, there are certain 
things you could do. 

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So things such as introspective 
questions like how well do I as 

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a organization understand the 
value that I'm providing to my 

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customer? 
Can I quantify it? 

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Can I identify it? 
Does everybody in my 

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organization understand that? 
And the next piece is your own 

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data. 
So sales data, transactional 

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data is a wealth of resource in 
terms of helping you understand 

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yourself, understand how you 
stand within the market. 

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And then if you look outside at 
the market, you can always talk 

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to your customers, understand 
your customers through 

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conversations, through 
intelligent relationships. 

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And then also you there are 
market research resources to 

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understand the overall trend in 
the market to understand if the 

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industry and things like that. 
So I think we'll cover some of 

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this in our workshop later in 
Vegas. 

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Yeah, really, I mean, just 100% 
agree with everything Tom said. 

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And that the piece that I like 
to hone in on is when you're 

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going out there and assessing 
the pricing power that you have 

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in the marketplace, it's 
obviously going to be incredibly

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important to understand how that
stacks up relative to other 

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options out there, right? 
The most relatable off example 

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that is often spoken about is a 
phone. 

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And you can argue that, you 
know, let's just say that Apple 

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is the market leader, not 
knowing all the nuances of phone

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industry. 
But I'm guessing that's a fair 

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statement. 
But the question is, how does 

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that value stack up to 
alternatives out there, whether 

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that's Samsung, LG, or the 
plethora of other options that 

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are out there? 
Because inherently a phone has 

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massive amounts of value. 
It's ingrained in everybody's in

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people's everyday lives. 
But if Apple were to go out 

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there and raise their prices by 
100%, there's alternatives out 

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there that people would start to
give stronger consideration to, 

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despite the fact that 100% 
increase is below the value that

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somebody is deriving from the 
use of a phone. 

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So it's incredibly important to 
understand what potential 

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alternatives out there and then 
understanding that at the most 

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granular level, meaning that how
does that how, how might that 

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value vary across different 
customer segments, whatever they

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might be within any 
organization. 

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OK, interesting. 
You know, in in conjunction with

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with price of power and market 
alternatives, you also think 

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about the need for growth as it 
applies to strategies. 

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And so how should companies 
balance the need for short term 

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growth versus their long term 
strategies? 

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Yeah, Yeah, that's, that's a 
good question. 

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I mean, often we get engage with
our clients, there typically is 

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some type of a burning platform,
meaning that there is from 

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perhaps a process perspective 
they have, they just have 

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significant problems in 
executing price, arriving at the

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price in say the right amount of
time or they, they clearly know 

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that they are underpriced 
relative to the value that they 

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are offering in the marketplace.
And they're like, well, this is 

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a problem that is, is devaluing 
our business, meaning that if we

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were to fix this problem, the, 
the valuation of our business 

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would be stronger. 
So going in and being able to 

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figure out how best to change 
the price model on a one time 

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basis is often what we get 
called in for. 

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But that what that quickly turns
into is like, OK, we get it. 

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We can put this structure in 
place. 

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We found this customer segment, 
we know how to communicate 

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effectively to them and capture 
the value that we have. 

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But then the question quickly 
becomes how do we do that over 

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time in a way that's 
sustainable. 

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We have all of these say product
enhancements planned. 

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How are we, are we structured in
the right way to make sure that 

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these product enhancements are 
truly what the customer needs 

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and that we can grow our 
business and recoup the 

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investments that we are making 
them via price, via growth by 

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capturing additional customers. 
So from a long term perspective,

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that short term question is 
often about price. 

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But long term, again getting 
back to what we had said a 

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little bit earlier, it starts to
bring in kind of these cross 

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functional groups within 
organizations where where people

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are coming together, whether 
that's a product, marketing, 

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sales, pricing, etcetera. 
And that's where you start to 

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create long term value, create 
long term value with your 

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customers by working together as
cross functional teams and then 

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putting something in the market 
that resonates with customers. 

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And that last piece is making 
sure that you have the structure

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in place to capture the benefit 
of that via price. 

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So that's where that long term 
piece comes into play. 

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And it works in conjunction with
just cross functional teamwork 

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essentially correct, not just 
pricing, but kind of everybody 

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on board. 
Yeah, OK. 

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We often see it as almost like a
cultural change with an 

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organization. 
So we often see pricing is very,

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I guess isolated group within 
the business. 

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They don't it's it's important 
to announce point to bring in 

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everyone inside inside the 
organization to be a part of 

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that. 
And another point I want to 

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emphasize is that over time 
piece your market will change, 

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your business will change, the 
amount of value you bring to 

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your customer will change over 
time. 

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So it's important to stay ahead 
of that and not have a pricing 

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that's static. 
Your pricing should be dynamic 

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and be responsive to the changes
inside the market. 

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That's good. 
That dynamic piece I think is a 

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really, really good point 
because there's a few different 

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facets of that, meaning that it 
could simply be market forces 

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that are changing the value of 
what you are selling, meaning, 

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you know, 11 great. 
Maybe recent example is interest

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rates are higher now and if you 
are playing in say the housing 

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market, because interest rates 
are higher, demand is slower. 

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So that's not really anything 
that's truly a function of the 

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business itself. 
Those are natural market 

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conditions that occur and 
there's fluctuations, but it's 

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really important to be able to 
take that into account so that 

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you take so that you know, OK, 
the market is being impacted and

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therefore the growth in my 
company is going to be impacted 

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and making sure that you have 
that common understanding so you

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can start to differentiate 
between the the market impact 

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versus price impact. 
So you're not taking any actions

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from a pricing perspective that 
is is irrational. 

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You want to make sure that you 
are well equipped to hold price 

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when it makes sense and 
differentiate between market 

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forces. 
So you're going, you know, 

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discount for no reason or leave 
money on the table. 

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And inversely, I think the other
piece that comes into play is 

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that over time, any product or 
service has a natural life 

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cycle. 
So it's important to understand 

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where you fall in that life 
cycle. 

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So you're implementing the right
product strategy for that 

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specific product, meaning that, 
you know, something that's end 

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of life cycle that may dictate a
different pricing strategy for 

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something that is emerging. 
But being able to be conscious 

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of that over time because like 
Tom said that that does often 

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change. 
It's not a one time thing. 

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Yeah. 
It's a lot of moving parts when 

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it comes to this and a lot of 
pieces are required to continue 

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to evolve is what it sounds like
Now when you talk about market 

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alternatives, long term and 
short, short term growth, long 

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term strategies, you mind 
sharing some common mistakes 

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companies may kind of fall into 
when they try to grow through 

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pricing? 
Yeah. 

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Also one of the more common ones
are, you know, folks thinking, 

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yeah, if I lower my price, can I
grow some volume. 

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So I from a lot of times what 
we've seen that sometimes will 

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work, but a lot of times it 
backfires and ends up hurting 

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you. 
So one example of how it could 

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hurt you is when the market is 
has a strong demand, you don't 

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necessarily need to lower price.
If you leave your price alone, 

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people need it, your customer 
needs it, they will buy anyways.

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So if you just lower your price,
it doesn't really help your 

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growth. 
It doesn't, it just hurts your 

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margins. 
There are instances where we saw

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another condition is like if you
lower your price expecting your 

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customer, where your customers 
are promising you more volume 

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but they don't deliver. 
So that is another thing where 

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it might not be your customer's 
fault, right. 

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Their business could be, could 
be not doing so well, therefore 

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they can't buy as much as they 
promised. 

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So the thought here is that a 
lot of times the demand is 

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really not up to your customer 
or you, you know, on your supply

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side either a lot if it is 
derived. 

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So it's one or two players down 
the stream that that end up 

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affecting how your business are 
going. 

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So just lowering pricey 
expecting volume is often not 

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the case, especially in the B2B 
environment. 

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It's good to know basically 
those who are considering doing 

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that. 
And now your workshop, this 

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workshop you guys are going to 
be spearheading, you know, it's,

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it's comprised of a number of 
different components that is, 

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that are vital to pricing 
success. 

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And are you guys able to share 
any examples of any companies 

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that have successfully improved 
its, its pricing power using the

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strategies covered in your 
workshop? 

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00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,680
Yeah, I've got one. 
This one of one of my favorite 

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examples is a company that we 
had been working with for a 

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number of years. 
And what they quickly realized 

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is they offered their customers 
in essence of a content 

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platform. 
And the content that they offer 

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00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,480
their customers was highly 
differentiated, meaning that it 

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was in essence essential to the 
operations of their customers. 

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But the way that people consume 
that content was somewhat 

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00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,400
painful, meaning that they 
consume it VA software platform.

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And because they're kind of 
differentiating factors, truly 

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00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,280
the content itself. 
And that's what they hung their 

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00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:04,400
head on. 
And that's ultimately what the 

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customers needed. 
That's where they had been 

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heavily focused. 
But the ability for people to 

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consume that, collaborate on it,
download the right files, access

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00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,640
a platform, the user interface, 
that was a common pain point for

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00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,400
for their customers. 
So despite the fact that they 

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00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,400
were highly differentiated from 
the content perspective, when 

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00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,560
you talk to customers, that was 
one of the first things come up.

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00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,680
It's like, well, I've got to be 
able to log into this thing. 

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00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,040
And once I log in, the user 
interface is really, really 

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00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:31,680
difficult to manage. 
So I have to build all these 

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00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,440
internal processes in my 
organization. 

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00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,360
So what they ended up doing is 
they put in a strategy to one, 

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00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,760
capture the differential value 
that they previously offered, 

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00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,800
acknowledging the fact that 
there's other things that are 

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00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,600
pain points for customers. 
So the message was that, OK, 

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00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:53,640
yes, you know, we have this 
content that is going to save 

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you a lot of money. 
It's going to reduce, it's going

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00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,080
to reduce a significant amount 
of risk for you. 

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00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,320
At the same time, we fully 
acknowledge the fact that we 

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need to make investments into 
our software to make your lives 

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00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:04,520
easier. 
So the message they went out 

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with was, hey, we're raising 
prices a little bit, but we're 

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00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,320
taking that and we're putting 
investments in place and then 

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00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,080
they follow through on it. 
So that they they released this 

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00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,640
new platform, customers were 
able to collaborate easier. 

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00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,120
They were able to access 
information easier. 

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00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:19,200
They saved incremental time. 
Point being here, they 

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00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,760
acknowledge the fact that yes, 
we have differential value. 

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We are better than any other 
option out there. 

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00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,680
They incorporated that messaging
into their go to market strategy

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00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,080
to say we're saving you time. 
This is how we're saving you 

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00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,600
time, we are saving your risk, 
this is how we're saving your 

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00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,040
risk and this is how we do it 
better than alternatives. 

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And by the way, we've now 
released this new software 

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platform that's going to address
your pain points. 

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And then the last piece of what 
they did is they made product 

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00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,320
enhancements to in essence, come
up with a new product offerings 

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that were somewhat adjacent to 
what they historically offered 

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00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,560
and, and started building that 
out. 

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00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,400
So it was just a really, really 
nice way where they, one, 

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understood the differential 
value of what they sold, but 

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then two, created incremental 
value. 

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00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,400
And amidst that, that's where 
these price changes happen. 

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00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,680
And it was a really nice 
symbiotic relationship between 

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00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,640
them and their customers so they
could continue down the path of 

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00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,840
the market leaders. 
Sounds like you also, it worked 

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00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,080
out pretty well for them because
they applied the things they 

356
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,200
needed to apply and they 
followed through with it. 

357
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,600
You know, and that's half of the
half of the work in itself. 

358
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,480
And everything else was kind of 
following the on the place as a 

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00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,400
result of the continued effort 
behind, you know, their initial 

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00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:29,560
their initial effort. 
So that's that's awesome. 

361
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,640
Now it was more than just hey, 
we're raising prices. 

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00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,160
It's like, hey, we're yes, we 
are raising prices, but you 

363
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,200
know, all these other cool 
things are happening as well. 

364
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:41,440
Now, there's a lot of things 
that are going to be taking 

365
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,880
place throughout this workshop 
that you guys are going to be 

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00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,840
leaving in this fall conference.
What are you most excited for 

367
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,880
attendees to take away from your
particular workshop? 

368
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,400
The content and the the 
discussions you'll be having? 

369
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,320
Yeah. 
In my experience with these, 

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00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,480
it's the piece that I like the 
best and the piece that we want 

371
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,080
attendees to walk away with is 
like, OK, what are some tools 

372
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,280
that we can go and apply to our 
business tomorrow? 

373
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,680
Meaning that, you know, is this 
something that we can start to 

374
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,760
think about to, to analyze our 
business, look at our business 

375
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:19,120
in a slightly different way and 
conduct this tomorrow. 

376
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,600
But at the same time start to 
think through what this could 

377
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,040
mean from a long term 
perspective. 

378
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,000
Because as we said earlier, when
we start to think about pricing 

379
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,280
power, there are often these 
short term wins that come about.

380
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:34,280
But then setting organizations 
up for the longer term is, is 

381
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,600
where we find the most success. 
But in order to be able to do 

382
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,680
that, what we often find is can 
we get these quick wins in 

383
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,600
place. 
So our goal is to really achieve

384
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,240
that right balancing act, so we 
can give attendee something that

385
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,440
they can pick up, implement 
tomorrow, showcase some of these

386
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,720
quick wins, but and then at the 
same time start to help their 

387
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,240
organizations think through how 
to capture pricing power over 

388
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,600
the long term. 
Cool, now to learn more about 

389
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:08,120
yourself, Adnan and yourself, 
Tom or holding advisors you know

390
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,840
at large, working attendees and 
listeners go to learn more about

391
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,120
you all. 
Yeah, obviously. 

392
00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:16,720
I mean, we've had our website's 
a great source of information. 

393
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:18,760
We have a plethora of content 
there. 

394
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,400
We can learn a little bit more 
about some of what we talked 

395
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,760
about today and then feel free 
to connect with both of both of 

396
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,520
us on on LinkedIn. 
Always love to meet with people,

397
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,920
connect with people in advance, 
and then, you know, fully engage

398
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,720
when we're out in Vegas in a 
couple months, OK? 

399
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:38,880
Good, good. 
Super excited to have you both 

400
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,480
in Vegas with us again. 
If you are interested in 

401
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,960
learning more about Adnan or 
Tong or holding advisors at 

402
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,440
large, feel free to visit their 
resources and visit them on 

403
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,360
LinkedIn. 
And also to learn more about our

404
00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:53,960
conference and their workshop in
particular, you can visit 

405
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,000
pricingsociety.com and you can 
visit the conference tab for our

406
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,360
Vegas conference, which also as 
a friendly reminder, is being 

407
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:04,120
held October 22nd through the 
25th this fall. 

408
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,360
So much again for your time, 
gentlemen. 

409
00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:08,680
And until next time, we will see
you all later. 

410
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:09,720
Have a good one. 
Bye bye.