1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,640 Hello everyone, and welcome to Let's Talk Pricing, the official 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:07,200 podcast of the Professional Pricing Society. 3 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:11,200 I'm your host, Kevin Mitchell from PBS, and today I'm very, 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:12,760 very happy. I have the pleasure of speaking 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,600 with someone who's not only a seasoned pricing professional, 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,400 but is also a great partner of our organization and someone 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:25,640 that we are going to see at PPS profitable in Dallas in May and 8 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:30,120 that is Miss Deanne Hammer. Deanne is the Global pricing 9 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:35,080 Operations Director for Safety and Industrial Business Group at 10 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:39,320 3 M Of course, 3 M, as we all know, makes everything and 11 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:41,080 everything that goes into everything. 12 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:45,280 So Deanne has a very wide variety of experiences there. 13 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:51,240 She has an MBA, she has ACPP, and 29 years of professional 14 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:56,200 experience in marketing, product development, strategic and 15 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,720 operational pricing, and probably a few other disciplines 16 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,720 as well. So the end definitely brings an 17 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,400 incredible depth of knowledge to our experiences and to every 18 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,400 role that she's held. She's worked across both the 19 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,040 industrial and healthcare manufacturing industries and 20 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,600 proudly refers to herself as an accidental pricer. 21 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,120 Through it all, Deanne has made has remained committed to 22 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,000 building resilient, high performance teams. 23 00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:25,760 I've had the pleasure of meeting many of her team members over 24 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,720 the years and they rave about her. 25 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:32,480 And she does all of this even in the face of rapid transformation 26 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,320 and change. So at our Sprint conference at 27 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:41,440 PPS Profitable, we are going to hear from Deanne with a keynote 28 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,440 address entitled price management, the Art of not 29 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:49,040 setting it and forgetting it. And also Deanne is going to Co 30 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,560 lead a one day full day CPP workshop with one of her team 31 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,520 members, Antonella Sunito and that is entitled action 32 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:02,200 practical pricing problems, a pricing escape room experience. 33 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,480 So we are very, very excited to talk with Deanne Hammer today. 34 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,960 So, Deanne, welcome to our podcast. 35 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,160 Hey, thanks, Kevin. Thanks for having me today. 36 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,240 I'm really excited for Dallas, really excited to see all my 37 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,000 friends in pricing, really excited about the topics that 38 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,560 we're going to see at the conference and hoping everyone 39 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,720 is just as excited as I am. Absolutely, Yeah, we are all 40 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:27,960 very excited and we are definitely looking forward to 41 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,920 seeing you there. So let's start with a couple big 42 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,120 picture questions about what's going to happen in Dallas and 43 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:37,560 the information we're going to get you there. 44 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,160 So we'll start with a look at your keynote once again, 45 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,520 entitled Price Management, the Art of Not Setting It and 46 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,760 Forgetting It. So I'm expecting some 47 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:52,360 information on change and dynamism and taking into account 48 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,480 all of the macroeconomic inside and outside externalities that 49 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,640 are going on. But what inspired you to focus 50 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,920 on the concept? Excuse me of price management 51 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,320 over the life cycle of a product. 52 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:12,800 You know, Kevin here, you know, in my 29 years of working in 53 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:18,480 this arena, I think it's one of those things that people kind of 54 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,040 forget about. You know, it's really exciting 55 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,520 to launch new products. You're doing a lot of market 56 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,520 research, you're getting a lot of data because a new product 57 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,680 and bringing that to life is really fun and, and new things 58 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,560 are always shiny and, and it's, it's really, really fun. 59 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,360 Maybe isn't as fun as, you know, reaching back into the pricing 60 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,160 closet, opening up the door and realizing it's full of stuff. 61 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,760 You don't know where all this stuff came from and, and now you 62 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,480 have like 2 hours to clean it. You're like I, I, I just don't 63 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:51,840 want to. And you shut the door on that 64 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,120 dirty pricing closet and you kind of walk away. 65 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:59,440 So it's one of those spaces that we we all know about, right? 66 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,280 Like we know it's there, but we don't really want to do it 67 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,320 right? It's, it's a lot of work and 68 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,680 it's maybe not always recognized as a way to really make sure 69 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,680 that you're getting all the revenue that you deserve. 70 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,480 So I thought, hey, maybe it's time to talk about this a little 71 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:20,720 bit more in depth and remind people at a time in in 2025 and 72 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:25,080 how the year has started for many prices with the external 73 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,640 activity. Maybe it's one of those things 74 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,120 that's maybe a little bit more comfortable right now because if 75 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,880 it's pricing that you can do and you can actually find revenue 76 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:37,440 and opportunities there for your firm. 77 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,920 So yeah, I'm excited about it because it's the forgotten place 78 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,400 for pricing sometimes. Yes, that's absolutely right. 79 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,640 Sometimes we can be so distracted by what's new and 80 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:53,200 what's novel, we can forget about the old so-called cash 81 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,920 cows going back to our our Business School days from a 82 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,360 little while ago. But the things that really, 83 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,880 really can have an impact on our companies that can allow us to 84 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,560 exceed our expectations and move on there. 85 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,840 So as you stated, yeah, new things are bright and shiny and 86 00:05:08,840 --> 00:05:13,040 attract a lot of attention. But sometimes it is the old 87 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:16,280 so-called workhorses of the organization where there's 88 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:20,560 really a lot of potential and a lot of opportunity for continued 89 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,640 growth as we progress through the life cycle of the product. 90 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,000 And even towards the end of a product's life cycle, there can 91 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,720 still be great opportunities for profitability and growth and 92 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,520 reinvestment in the next new product with gains that we can 93 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,320 right there. So I think that that's a great 94 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,360 point. So Deanne, I know that you make 95 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,200 the case that while initial pricing decisions are often 96 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:47,920 backed by deep research, a lot of analysis, a lot of thought, 97 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,920 but price management after the launch is sometimes where a lot 98 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,240 of companies fall short. Can you talk about some of the 99 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:01,520 risks associated with a set it and forget it pricing mind 100 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:06,040 frame? Yes, I think some of the things 101 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,200 are hard to see. So one of the things that I've 102 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:14,000 noticed is that you are not really always able to measure 103 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,160 productivity loss. And I think about like your 104 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:21,040 sales teams are, are people that that are really trying to sell 105 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,000 your whole portfolio. And if they have to keep 106 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,960 continuing to come in and ask for a discount or you know, a 107 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:32,400 promotion because it's no longer competitive, that's taking their 108 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,760 time when they could just be out selling, right? 109 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,840 So your price value is off. And an individual portfolio 110 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:43,600 owner might say, well, that's OK, it's just these 10 things. 111 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,480 But if you look across your whole firm, it could be hundreds 112 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,920 of things. So, and usually then what kicks 113 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,360 in is that psychology by that portfolio owner that says, but 114 00:06:55,360 --> 00:07:00,640 if I drop price all the time, then I have a volume hurdle to 115 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,920 overcome, right? So they're thinking, why not 116 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,240 just take new business at the lower price and leave my old 117 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,440 business at the higher price because my margin is better, 118 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,640 right? But they're not really digging 119 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,920 into the numbers. They don't really understand 120 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,680 like how much is being sold at different price points because 121 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,360 to be honest, it's a lot of work, right? 122 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,120 And, and now that I've got, you know, 20-30 years of a life 123 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,160 cycle going on, even all those changes that have created to the 124 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,960 place that you're in is overwhelming. 125 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:38,440 So when it becomes overwhelming, we, we just kind of again, shut 126 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,440 that door, walk away. Maybe that's not so interesting. 127 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:46,120 But really that productivity loss, you know, creating that 128 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,520 room for growth. I always say like, how can you 129 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,680 extend the life cycle of a product? 130 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:52,880 You could really extend the life site. 131 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,400 It's not just about dropping price, it's about extending that 132 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,880 life cycle, keeping people interested. 133 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,160 It's also a brand. You could compromise your brand, 134 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:07,120 right where you're saying, oh, well, you know, your, your 135 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,160 widgets, they're overpriced by 20%. 136 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,160 You're always trying to take advantage of of me as a 137 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,600 consumer, right? So be careful because you don't 138 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,440 want to get a reputation for having pricing that's wrong and 139 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,160 that makes it difficult to buy from you. 140 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,160 And, and we all know, right, like Kevin, you're a consumer. 141 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,080 I know, I know you're out there on Amazon. 142 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:28,760 I know you're out there on different websites, right? 143 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,480 You have favorite things you like to buy, right? 144 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,400 And you all know that if the pricing was really wrong, you 145 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:37,760 probably wouldn't buy those things on those websites 146 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,240 anymore. So think about that. 147 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,559 You know what, when you're out there pricing and you're not 148 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:46,640 managing your price, you're losing buyers and and you don't 149 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,360 want to lose buyers because the lower your volume goes, that's 150 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,600 going to also cost. That means your cost could go 151 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,720 up, right? So be careful. 152 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,800 Like think about like, think about like I just talked about 153 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,560 four different things that can really make an impact on your 154 00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:04,080 profit and loss statement, right? 155 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:08,160 Like manufacturing, keeping your manufacturing facility full 156 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,720 sales productivity and time, extending that life cycle, 157 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,520 taking more share, those are all things that price management 158 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,360 allows you to do with existing products that might be around a 159 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,160 little while. They're vintage. 160 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,880 They're vintage products. Kevin, we have to sell this. 161 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,160 Understood. We like vintage products. 162 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,320 That's great. We love vintage products, 163 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,880 they're amazing. Definitely. 164 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:34,800 And I like your statements there. 165 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,520 And the good thing about our part of the business world, the 166 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:41,160 good thing about pricing and revenue management is that 167 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,720 basically we should be central to a lot of different thought 168 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,320 processes, a lot of different goals, a lot of different 169 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:51,000 departments, internal factors, external factors, marketplace 170 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,760 factors and so on and so forth. And some of the things you 171 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,480 mentioned there is if we are manufacturing and if we're 172 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,920 keeping our plants open and running, that can also make us 173 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,160 more efficient and give us a better opportunity to provide 174 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,000 better service to our marketplaces. 175 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:12,120 Also, it's very, very critical for businesses in tough times 176 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:16,200 and so-called interesting times that if you are easy to do 177 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,640 business with, then that is often a product attribute, a 178 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,880 feature, a benefit in itself. If you are difficult to do 179 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:28,440 business with, then that is a very difficult thing to 180 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,920 overcome. And you mentioned this also when 181 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:32,960 you talk about we can't compromise our brand. 182 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,960 So it's not only the physical product, but it might be the 183 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,280 services, the delivery, everything that goes around your 184 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,840 product. If that is not all in your 185 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,160 favor, if that makes it hard to do business with, then that 186 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,400 takes time and effort to overcome that. 187 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,680 In addition to, as you mentioned, the value of your 188 00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:55,280 sales person's time and effort, they've only got so many hours 189 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,000 in a day that we cannot make more time. 190 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,400 That's the one resource that is truly, truly limited for all of 191 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,160 us. We are never going to have more 192 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:07,080 than 24 hours in a day. And so if we can work with them 193 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,080 to be as efficient, effective as they can, that's also another 194 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,440 benefit for everyone involved. So I love the statements there 195 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,080 about how all of this can come from thinking about the product 196 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,840 life cycle not being, you know, we'll set it and let it go 197 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,200 through and, and forget it. And basically we have to 198 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,320 remember to keep things up to date because that helps us to be 199 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,280 better partners for our customers, for our internal 200 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,840 teams, our external teams and so on and so forth there. 201 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,680 And there's so much there that really catches my eye. 202 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:43,600 But one of the things that we have talked about is the idea 203 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,120 how, as you mentioned, price misalignment can chip away at 204 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,160 your profitability. So what are some of the other 205 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:56,640 key indicators that it may be time for a price redesign or to 206 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,240 rethink what we initially would have considered when setting a 207 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:01,640 price for a product or a service? 208 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,080 So. I would say one of the biggest 209 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:09,440 indicators for me is when your sales team continually asks you 210 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,000 to quote, right? So you know, and, and some 211 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,120 businesses are really updated with new software, right, about 212 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,960 doing that CPQ bid and quoting. If you're getting a lot of 213 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:24,120 requests to quote at a price that's different than your 214 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,680 current average selling price or different than your published 215 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:30,280 price, when you and you accept those quotes, you're like, Oh 216 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,400 yes, we'll, we'll take that. And all of a sudden you see that 217 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,080 you have a large percentage of your business going out through 218 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,000 custom quoting or unique price points. 219 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:45,160 That's maybe a sign that your price is not right, right there. 220 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,480 There must be a competitive offering out there that makes 221 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,240 your price too high. And maybe people love doing 222 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,400 business with you. Like they feel really good. 223 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,200 They like a lot of things about you, but your price for these 224 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,560 particular items is not good enough. 225 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:00,160 So that they need to ask for that. 226 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:02,440 That's usually the first indicator. 227 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,880 The other thing that's maybe a silent indicator that I've 228 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,360 discovered a lot of people, again, not a lot of time to look 229 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,920 as you look at that churn, like all of a sudden that business 230 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,920 was there and then all of a sudden you realize like maybe 90 231 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,320 days later, jeez, my sales are really down at that. 232 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,880 Now you've had inventory, so you haven't the manufacturing plant 233 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,520 maybe hasn't asked you like, hey, what's going on? 234 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,040 But all of a sudden it becomes very apparent that you've lost a 235 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,760 lot of business. Now you now you have to actually 236 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,280 figure out where did it go and who did it go to and why isn't 237 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,680 it there anymore? And that actually takes even 238 00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:43,760 more energy, right? So I was telling people like, 239 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,840 don't be afraid about price management because the energy it 240 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:52,800 takes to find lost business and earn a customer back, it's 241 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,080 double like it's way more than that, right? 242 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,680 And, and you know, I, I would rather have more fun doing 243 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,880 pricing work then trying to figure out how to get business 244 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,360 back from somebody because what if they find out, Oh, that 245 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,680 competitive yours is also really nice. 246 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:10,560 They have a lot of nice products and it's really easy to buy 247 00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:13,000 from. And you're like, shoot, now if I 248 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,240 even actually do the right thing for pricing, I, it doesn't 249 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:18,720 matter. Like they're, they're super 250 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,040 happy over here with your friends, right, Your other 251 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,680 friends, that's your competitor. So it's really hard to win 252 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,480 customers back. So be careful, be careful about 253 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,160 thinking this isn't really that important and you can just kind 254 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,720 of chip away and kind of do what I like to call it the management 255 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:38,200 of the day versus the strategy of the year, right? 256 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,960 So I would rather be strategic. I would rather put together a 257 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,560 credible pricing strategy that the market accepts and is 258 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,680 willing to pay for. Then kind of like every day 259 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,400 there's like a little fire burning and you have to manage, 260 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,520 manage, manage. That's exhausting. 261 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,840 It's not fun and we all know that pricing can be really fun. 262 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,960 So I think it's a chance for you to have a lot of fun in that 263 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,280 price management space. And also because there's so many 264 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,120 different levers that you get out of this that you can go to 265 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,600 your management team, whether it's decreased management cost, 266 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,760 you know, productivity growth, it really can give you that 267 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,680 shining moment of adding value to your company and your pricing 268 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,960 seat. Like there's so many levers to 269 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:25,720 touch. You can bring make happiness 270 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,360 such a big thing. And it's a really good feeling. 271 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:32,480 And I think people need to be drawn to that because sometimes 272 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,400 we're struggling for, for certain things. 273 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,880 This can be a really, I'm not going to say it's low hanging 274 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,240 fruit, but really they can be a lot of substance there that can 275 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,680 really bring value that makes your pricing department shine. 276 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:51,200 Excellent points and I love your description about looking at 277 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,520 exception management. If that becomes a full time job 278 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:59,680 in itself, then really you're being in the old 5 levels of 279 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,160 pricing. You know you're never going to 280 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,120 be above the firefighter. You're always putting out a 281 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:04,920 fire. That doesn't give me time for 282 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,840 strategic thought, that doesn't give you opportunities to move 283 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,200 forward. If that's taking all of your 284 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,080 time and energy, all of your sales managers time and energy, 285 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,080 all of your leadership's time and energy, then that's really 286 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:22,280 suboptimal because not only does that basically take all of the 287 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,000 emphasis away from things that you could be doing, but it's 288 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:30,360 making you focus on kind of low activities and to less 289 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,560 profitable work there if you're always doing something like 290 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,720 that. So yes, definitely agree it's 291 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,760 going to be strategic. It's good to remember if prices 292 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,800 are misaligned, let's not start replicating those errors over 293 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:45,720 and over again. Let's try to fix them. 294 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,920 That's going to give us the opportunity to move forward to 295 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,160 save time and energy for all parties involved and allow us to 296 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,000 do more strategic thinking down the line. 297 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,000 So that is a great way to put that. 298 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,480 So thank you very much for the explanation there and the end, 299 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,640 of course, very much looking forward to seeing you again at 300 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:06,319 our Spring conference. And we are going to talk about 301 00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:09,400 some of your offerings and things like that later. 302 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,920 But I do want to ask one question about some actionable 303 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:18,079 tools and frameworks. So let's talk about some 304 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,280 analytical methods to price variance policies. 305 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:26,000 So without giving too much away, what is 1 practical take away 306 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,280 that people, when they come to our conference, we're going to 307 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:30,600 be in Dallas from Day 6 to night. 308 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,680 Of course, we're looking forward to seeing you there. 309 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,480 Tell us a little bit about 1 great practical take away that 310 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,120 you are going to hope people take back to their teams. 311 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,840 You know, there there's going to be, you're right, Kevin. 312 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,520 We have so many great tools. They're going to be really 313 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,520 exciting. I think one of the tools that 314 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,680 you're going to be able to take away from us is an easy and 315 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,080 easier way. So I, I know a lot of us are 316 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,560 really great with data, like we love it, right? 317 00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:00,320 But one of the tools that we're going to give you is a way for 318 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,880 you to put that data into a tool set that allows you to pull it 319 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,600 out and talk to people that maybe aren't as detailed as we 320 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,440 are in pricing, right? So some of that is like, how do 321 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,240 I take, you know, 1000 things that really are exciting to us, 322 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,720 like bring it forward and sell that story to a leader, right? 323 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:24,480 That is a different thing. They I, I, I love a good 324 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,960 spreadsheet, Kevin, you know, you know, I love a good 325 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,000 spreadsheet. I love good AII love some good 326 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,000 software graphs. But we got to make sure that 327 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,360 we're paying attention that when we when we find something, we 328 00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:39,200 can easily bring that forward to our leadership team and say, 329 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,320 here's what this means. So, so yes, there's going to be 330 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,480 tools there for you to use to, to figure out some challenges 331 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,600 about like, hey, is, is my pricing right? 332 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,960 Should I change my pricing? What does it mean? 333 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,760 Was this promotion successful? And at the same time, how to 334 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,000 deliver that in a meaningful way to a leader who just wants to 335 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,800 know, did I make money? Is it profitable? 336 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,400 Should I do this again? Why or why not? 337 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,240 Right. So that value selling, you're 338 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,240 like, but you're, you become a salesperson in pricing, right? 339 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:14,800 At some point, you got to sell the people who want to hear 340 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,920 about what you can bring. So we're going to, we're going 341 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:19,200 to teach how to be salespeople too. 342 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,120 And I know that sounds kind of scary. 343 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,440 You should never be afraid in, in our workshops, Kevin. 344 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,800 We're all, we're all friends and family and, and I promise you 345 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,000 that you will be a superstar when you're selling your pricing 346 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,160 story. So give it a chance. 347 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,800 I'm going to, I'm putting all my money on all these pricers 348 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,200 because they're you're, they're all great and they all have 349 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:41,680 something to offer and I know they can do it. 350 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,440 So. Very nice. 351 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,920 Yeah, I often tell pricing people, you know, our members 352 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,440 from across the globe that yes, we are all sales people because 353 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,040 you do have to sell these ideas inside your organization, 354 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,840 outside your organization. And I love your description of 355 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,080 even though we can be spreadsheet Wizards, Wizards 356 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,200 with pricing optimization software. 357 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,360 Analytical Wizards, statistical Wizards and so on and so forth 358 00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:12,240 there. If you dump a lot of Greek 359 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:17,080 letters and XS and YS and coefficients and things like 360 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,200 that on senior leaders, it's just going to go right over 361 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,320 their heads. And also when we think about 362 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,280 that, we have to talk to people inside our organization in 363 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,520 particular, in a language that they can understand. 364 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:34,800 So with your leaders, yes, 32nd elevator speech, this is going 365 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,400 to make money. This is how we're going to do 366 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,920 it. AB and C boom, a first year MBA 367 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,960 who's a financial wizard. Feel free to talk spreadsheets 368 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,560 with him or her. And of course, you're 369 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,920 experienced salespeople. That's a completely different 370 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,040 discussion. So I like how we have to be the 371 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,240 artists and the scientists there depending on the market. 372 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,800 We have to be well-rounded and be able to talk to people in a 373 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:57,720 language that they can understand. 374 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,000 And we have to know their goals and how we have that Venn 375 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,160 diagram overlap with their goals as well and how we can be good 376 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,960 team members there. So that one is definitely not an 377 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,680 either or. That one has to be an and you've 378 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,240 got to be able to talk to to all of those groups. 379 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,680 You do, you do. And I went and you know, Kevin, 380 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,000 you're going to laugh because I always say like I it's like a, 381 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,080 the classical visual of a psychologist office, right, 382 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,560 where you have the couch. I would say like, welcome to the 383 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:29,640 pricing couch because a lot of people want to feel good about 384 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,600 your story, right? So we also become therapists. 385 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,200 So, so here we are. We're going to be here to help 386 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,880 you like get those people to feel the safe, they're going to 387 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:43,440 be safe and it's going to be OK. So, you know, we're going to get 388 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,960 you a degree in pricing therapy. I like it. 389 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,280 And yeah, being a therapist is a good one. 390 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,400 And that's also another world that we have with our sales 391 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,080 people as well. When we do have pricing changes 392 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,440 and they of course think that the world is going to end, 393 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,400 they're never going to get paid again. 394 00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:02,760 There goes everything. And of course, we have to be the 395 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,520 ones that say, OK, we're going to take a deep breath, we'll be 396 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,040 your therapist here. We offer great products and 397 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,120 services and value. Here's why. 398 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:14,040 And we think that our marketplace is going to be 399 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,360 appreciative of that and we're going to get through it and 400 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:18,200 we're going to do great things. So I like how we have to be a 401 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,280 therapist on a couple different levels there as well. 402 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:27,040 And so your workshop that you're going to Co lead with our friend 403 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:31,080 Antonella Sunito is entitled actioning practical pricing 404 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,560 problems, a pricing escape room experience. 405 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,720 It's the first time that you're doing this workshop with this. 406 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,440 So in addition to what you mentioned earlier, can you tell 407 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:47,560 us a little bit about the escape room experience and another 408 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,480 sneak peek at some other things that our attendees might gain 409 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,680 from your full day CPP workshop? Sure. 410 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:59,800 So if you're someone who likes games, right, this this is the 411 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,320 workshop for you. So some, you know, it's always 412 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,360 great to listen and hear great information and take that in, 413 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,920 but some people just really want to get into it and actually do 414 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,240 things. So the escape room is designed 415 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,560 to give you a game that's a pricing game, right? 416 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,120 And a challenge and really for you to have to activate your 417 00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:25,240 skill set. So it's a timed event, right? 418 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:26,600 Because there is going to be a winner. 419 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,880 So if you're competitive, this could be for you. 420 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,920 And so the other and you're going to get new tools. 421 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,960 So even if you're really an experienced pricer, this is 422 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,600 really a chance to be on a team, play a pricing game. 423 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,560 You might get a you, you can always walk away with something. 424 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,360 You're going to get at least a couple of tidbits, but you're 425 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:49,760 not going to be sitting in the room listening to me talk. 426 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,120 No, you're not going to be sitting in the room listening to 427 00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:54,160 antebellum talk. We're going to give you a 428 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,680 little, a little starter and then we're going to start the 429 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,200 clock and you're going to be working on solving a pricing 430 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,000 problem. So I, I think for people that 431 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,840 enjoy games, they like complex problem solving. 432 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,880 They, they, they're competitive. This is going to be an all day 433 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,920 fun fest. And by the way, I'm going to 434 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,920 give you a sticker. So look, I want a sticker that 435 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,160 says you escaped the pricing room and some people might not 436 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,080 escape. Kevin, you, you have to know 437 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,800 like, like what, what if you don't solve the problem? 438 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,520 You don't get to open the next door to go into the next room. 439 00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:30,120 We're going to help you. No worry. 440 00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:32,240 There's no judgement. It's only fun. 441 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,040 But I but I think it's going to be a lot of fun for people that 442 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,960 just like to activate and do things in a way to learn it in 443 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,560 that style. So we hope you can join us 444 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:44,920 because I think it's going to be really fun. 445 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,200 Definitely. That does sound like that's 446 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,960 going to be a lot of fun. And of course, as pricing 447 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:54,520 people, as revenue managers, we often like games. 448 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:59,080 That may be a choice, but all of us have to love game theory and 449 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,000 kind of the implications in the aspects there because that's 450 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,680 just so critical to what we do. I know that we were all taught 451 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,400 in microeconomics one O 1, the horrible 45° downward sloping 452 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,320 price versus sales curve where, Oh yeah, I dropped my price 10%, 453 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,120 therefore automatically I'm going to sell 10% more widgets. 454 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,440 Of course, we in the real world know. 455 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,040 Yeah. Once you do that, your 456 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,240 competitors going to have a response, your markets going to 457 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,680 have a response. And that could go up, down or 458 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,560 sideways depending on a lot of market factors, many of which 459 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,640 are well beyond your control. So yeah, game theory. 460 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,960 I feel like you're already in the game because we have some of 461 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,440 these like what I'm going to call like external factor cards 462 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,600 that could just get played in the middle of your in the middle 463 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,680 of your game and you have to switch it off. 464 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,000 Like that could happen. It could happen, Kevin. 465 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,320 And then and then stuff happens and you got to change your 466 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,160 direction, right? Absolutely. 467 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,720 Yeah, that is intriguing and that sounds like a great real 468 00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,440 life current very pertinent example as as we are talking now 469 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,080 where we really do not know what's going to happen in the 470 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,080 hours, days, weeks, months ahead. 471 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,160 There will be opportunities. There will be opportunities for 472 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,640 us to not set our prices and forget them because we will have 473 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,200 to be dynamic. We will have to change as the 474 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,800 market conditions change. And also it is really an 475 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,080 opportunity for us, as you've mentioned before, by being on 476 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,400 the front foot here that allows us to focus our energies better, 477 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,800 our leadership's energies better, our sales team's 478 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,840 energies better, instead of chasing exceptions and doing 479 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,360 exception management worried about we're discounting all the 480 00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:41,080 time. Therefore, our price is really 481 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,760 just this mythological number that doesn't exist anywhere. 482 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,960 But really we have a lot of opportunities to take advantage 483 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,080 of that and to move forward there. 484 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:54,440 And Deanne, I know that we could talk forever on this topic, but 485 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:59,800 I believe that we are running pretty near on our our schedule 486 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,360 time here. We are really, really thrilled 487 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,400 that you are going to be on our program in Dallas. 488 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,840 For those of us who have not been to 1 of Deanne's 489 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,560 presentations yet, her experience with Three M, again, 490 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,920 a company that makes everything and everything that goes into 491 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,840 everything, her experience, really she is one of our most 492 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,840 highly rated speakers that we've had. 493 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,480 And we're really, really excited about your presentations coming 494 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,000 up with us. So thanks again for sharing your 495 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,200 preview with us today. We're really, really looking 496 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,880 forward to seeing you. And with that, definitely take 497 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,560 advantage of Deanne's workshop with Antonella Sunito. 498 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,160 And we are really looking forward to seeing you in Dallas 499 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,160 for PBS profitable from May 6th to May 9th. 500 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,600 And Deanne, thank you so much. Any final words for our audience 501 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,960 as we begin to run up against the clock? 502 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,480 My fault there. Oh, no. 503 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:56,720 Well, thanks for having me, Kevin. 504 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,480 I really appreciate it. And I would say if you're 505 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,880 listening to this and you haven't signed up, I, I know 506 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,800 Kevin will let you sign up. I know Kevin will let you 507 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,560 attend. So while you might have missed 508 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,240 the early bird pricing, the value is still there. 509 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,560 So sign up, get to Dallas. I, I mean, it's going to be so 510 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,120 fun. You don't want you, you have to 511 00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:19,920 be there. So please join us. 512 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,280 We'd love to have you all and see you all in person. 513 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,200 So we'll see you there soon. Excellent. 514 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,800 Thank you, Deanne. So of course, you can check out 515 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,560 our schedules, our conference brochures, more information 516 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:36,720 about our event, about Deanne hammerherself@pricingsociety.com. 517 00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:39,840 Deanne, very much looking forward to you and for our 518 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,760 people listening in, looking forward to seeing you as well. 519 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,480 You can always reach out to me with questions about anything 520 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,560 that PPS has to offer. And with that, everyone, please 521 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,960 keep an eye out for other Let's Talk pricing podcasts. 522 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,280 Thanks for listening. We will see you very soon in 523 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:56,480 Dallas. Thank you so much.