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Hello. 
And thank you again, for tuning 

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in to another episode of the 
professional pricing Society 

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podcast. 
My name is Terrence and Hey, 

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listen. 
We have a great episode in store

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for you all today. 
Now, as the founder of two very 

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successful pricing companies 
over the past 15 years. 

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Karen gagne, one of our PPS 022 
Global pricing conference 

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speakers has implemented pricing
strategies at some of the 

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largest organizations from the 
United States, Mexico, Europe 

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and also Asia and he will be 
spared. 

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In the conversation today, 
centered around designing 

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analytics, based pricing 
Frameworks. 

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Now, we'll go ahead and jump 
right into the conversation. 

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Keyring, if you wouldn't mind, 
go ahead and explain to us and 

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break down. 
What exactly is an analytics 

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based pricing framework. 
Yes. 

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So pricing as a function in any 
organization, right? 

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It has evolved. 
From history. 

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Right? 
So so typically, this is how it 

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was being done. 
And now, everybody's learned 

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from how it was done previously 
and mostly depending on the 

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stage of the organization but 
still mostly, it is done based 

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on intuition based on best 
practices based on what feels 

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right. 
Right now in today's world where

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we have more data sources, more 
ability to analyze this 

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information and to actually use 
this information may be As a 

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decision support system or maybe
to make decisions and then 

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measure what happened, or maybe 
to even automate these 

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decisions, right? 
These are all possibilities of 

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how data and Technology can be 
used for pricing today, right? 

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So the goal of this workshop and
then what we're trying to convey

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here is, how do you design this 
framework to leverage this 

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information? 
That's available to you, again, 

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this information is different 
for different businesses. 

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Has so for Abby to see is very 
different from B to B say for 

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example, but there's always data
is always information available.

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So how do you structure this 
data in a format? 

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It can be readily analyzed for 
your decision. 

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Making around pricing is is the 
focus of this conversation 

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tariffs. 
Now let me ask you. 

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Can you use any of these best 
practices for quick wins? 

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If you will? 
Yes. 

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So you don't have to build. 
You know, the most complex 

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pricing process or function 
overnight. 

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One of the first thing we could 
do is we could analyze 

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historical data to see how each 
organization has performed, 

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right? 
Say, for example, we could 

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collect historical competitive 
prices or even our own sales 

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data to see how it performs. 
Say, for example, some 

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categories might perform better 
in summer versus winter or or 

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some categories reacted Very 
drastically when a competitor 

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change its price in others, we 
did not write quick. 

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One win, would be to take a look
at your own data, to see how you

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performed in the past. 
And if we can get any learnings 

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out of it, and it doesn't have 
to be in a most complex 

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software, use Excel or, or you 
know, look at these numbers and 

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then I try to come up with some 
kind of insights. 

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That's the start of analytical 
Journey for somebody. 

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Okay, that's good. 
Now, you mentioned looking in 

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the past, how would you say 
pricing is different today than 

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it was from the past? 
You know, considering things 

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like inflation. 
Yes. 

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So one of the key things, you 
know, I work a lot with retail 

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and some of the Retailer's I 
work with are and Latin America 

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and because of the high 
inflation of its suppliers, it 

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could be from the US. 
It could be Europe. 

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The cost are changing 
continuously, right? 

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Well they traditionally have 
systems where they don't change 

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prices continuously, they might 
only change price once in six 

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months once in three months. 
So they had to make 

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accommodations. 
Now to make like new processes 

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to react to these costs changes 
much more quickly. 

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Otherwise they're going to bleed
money right? 

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If they have the higher cost 
comes through and you still 

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selling at an old price, that 
means you're selling at a loss 

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now. 
So one is build processes to 

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understand and react quickly. 
Second is, there are some 

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categories where customers don't
like these constant change in 

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prices, whereas in other cop 
agrees, they are, they're okay 

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with it, right? 
So, how do you pass these 

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changes in cost to your consumer
is a decision retailers or other

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businesses have to make. 
Sometimes it is done in a more 

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tiered fashion or sometimes they
take it all at once. 

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But we definitely need to do is 
build new processors for this 

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new environment. 
Otherwise, we're going to be 

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inefficient in the market. 
Okay, and you also mentioned the

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different categories. 
As you know, some people may be 

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in favor of certain categories 
and certain other people may be 

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against it for clarity. 
You are referring to Consumers, 

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correct? 
Yeah, yeah, or whatever it is. 

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Buying from you, right? 
So, the consumer doesn't have to

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be like a customer walking into 
a store for a B2B business. 

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To Consumer is very different, 
right? 

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It could be like, say, for 
example, BMW buying car parts. 

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Sure, fire in the US. 
Oh sure, sure, absolutely. 

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Now let me ask you this. 
Is there a difference between 

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pricing infrastructure regarding
B2B and b2c? 

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Oh yes. 
In in case of B to C, we see 

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much more sources of data 
typically I've done a lot of 

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b2c, right? 
So I know there is a lot of good

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sources of data, we can process 
say, for example, for each 

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store, location. 
I know exactly what is the 

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demographic. 
Affix, what is the income right 

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now? 
What was the weather on a 

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certain time of the day of 
purchase? 

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Right. 
Also, I have point-of-sale data 

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and I have competitive data. 
All of this is much more readily

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available in a b2c environment 
to process in a be environment. 

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The data is a lot more 
qualitative than quantitative, 

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right? 
It could be like a relationship,

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somebody has built over time, 
you know, let's say your 

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grandfather was friends with 
another person in a company 

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which is why they're still 
giving you a good price. 

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Thing. 
So there is still is a need for 

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a process. 
There is still a need for an 

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infrastructure to process all of
it but the way the qualitative 

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information is handled is very 
different from quantitative 

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information, okay? 
Now, what aspects of pricing 

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should be handled in-house 
compared to being out sourced. 

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What would you say? 
Yes. 

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So so depends on the focus, that
goes the size of the 

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organization, right? 
So to go back to the example of 

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what we're doing in Latin 
America. 

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So this is a very large food 
company with more than 1,500 

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locations of their own where 
they sell through their own 

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stores, but still, they don't 
have an experienced. 

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Data scientist, 20 years of 
experience to build their 

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mathematical models, right? 
They can build it but it's too 

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much of work too much of a 
hassle for them because they 

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don't need these data scientist 
to be there full-time, right? 

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So that's when they hire our 
organization, I've had these 

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algorithms built by these data 
scientists in the past, which is

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sufficient for them, for their 
need of pricing, to make a 

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decision on what they need to do
as a strategy, right? 

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So they didn't Have to do this 
in-house, but Albert, Einstein, 

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this is another company. 
We were trying to sell our 

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businesses, sell our services 
into in, in Amsterdam, and they 

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quite decided that they have the
capability to hire their own 

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team. 
Get a team of data scientists to

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do, the real-time fresh produce 
pricing for them. 

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It was the right decision 
because they already had a big 

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enough pricing team, which could
accommodate this new high-end 

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mathematical models through 
there. 

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Team, right? 
So again depends if your focus 

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is to enter the new market, or 
if your, if your core focus is 

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to produce the best product, 
keep keep your core focus and 

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let the pricing be done by 
somebody else. 

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But perhaps you're in an already
commoditized market and you want

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to bring more of these 
functions, in-house to reduce 

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your overall cost. 
Then you could take this, you 

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know, hiring firing of the right
resources, probably one step at 

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a time to do this yourself. 
For probably two more customized

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request in in, in the future, 
right? 

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Okay, so you're saying is 
basically what it? 

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What is your focus? 
That's what's going to help to 

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determine if? 
It's something should be 

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in-house or Outsource, that 
makes a lot of sense is that the

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same case for personnel or 
automated when it comes to 

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aspects of pricing, depending on
what the focus is. 

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So I'll give you another example
of what I did, right? 

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So I was a pricing consultant 
Aaron. 

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So I did In Consulting for 
about, I don't know, 17, 18 

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years then but this was very 
boring for me after a while 

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because I will do the exact same
thing. 

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We would do, the data analysis, 
we would do the strategy, we 

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would do the pricing, we would 
do the measurements its exact 

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same step. 
I would do it again and again 

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and again, that's what we 
decided. 

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Hey, why don't we automate? 
What is standard? 

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Hmm, let's focus. 
Let's use our brain power to do 

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more Innovative stuff. 
Let's try to And how many days 

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of life is left on a banana 
instead of trying to pressure, 

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you sell it against the 
competition that can be 

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automated, right? 
So like anything in life, I 

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believe once it becomes routine,
once it becomes standardized, 

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there is a prime opportunity to 
automate it or to delegate it 

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and then focus on Focus. 
Your brain power on doing 

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something which is path-breaking
an Innovative instead. 

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Maybe it's just me. 
A suggestion, is if it's too 

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boring, if it's Standardized. 
Think about a way of automating 

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it. 
Mmm, you know, that's such a 

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simple thought that I feel many 
people are companies May 

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Overlook. 
And so, that can really become a

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game changer choosing to create 
something in an automated 

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version that is already in 
routine or standard. 

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You know, versus just like you 
said trying to find out how much

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time is left in a banana, you 
know, exactly that's good. 

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Now, how does Has someone 
determine what their next step 

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in their pricing journey, is or 
what, how do they determine what

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it should be? 
It's always good to do have this

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conversation with an expert, 
right? 

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Like, in an industry whose done 
this in the past, to see where 

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exactly, they might stand in in 
evolution of pricing inside 

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their own organization. 
Because somebody might feel like

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we're already doing a good job, 
but but an expert in the 

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industry might be able to point 
out and tell them by the way. 

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This is good, or this could be 
what you do next. 

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By the way, the pursuit of 
perfection is a never-ending 

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goal, shortening, it should. 
It's new, can never say, have 

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reached their. 
So, so, take a look at like, 

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say, for example, if you haven't
done analysis in an Excel, don't

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think about a big data solution 
yet. 

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There is a lot of low-hanging 
fruit. 

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You could pick from Quick 
analysis of data, right? 

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And then go to Big Data, like 
add more sources of Of data to 

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it, right then, think about 
okay. 

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How can you do this using 
artificial intelligence? 

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How can I add more real-time 
sources of data? 

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And then probably think about 
completely automating it. 

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Eventually, if you take a 
example of the airline industry,

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Trends complex commercial jet 
right requires only two people 

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to fly it. 
Why? 

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Because everything, that can be 
standardized and automated, it 

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is already automated. 
Add that airplane and the pilots

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only use their time to react to 
real-time changes in the flying 

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conditions. 
It could be, whether it could be

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like a traffic controlled 
saying, do something else or 

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passenger going. 
Crazy. 

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So think about what where do you
want to spend your time and 

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attention and then and that will
tell you where you are in the 

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cycle of adoption and what 
should come next amazing advice.

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Let me ask you this one. 
Last question. 

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What are you? 
You may have kind of touched on 

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it. 
I mentioned a little bit or 

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alluded to a little bit before 
in our previous discussion 

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earlier within this discussion, 
but what do you foresee the 

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future? 
Climate of companies utilizing 

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analytics, based Frameworks. 
See if you if you take an 

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example of a more mature pricing
industry, right? 

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00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:29,700
Like say for example pricing for
Airlines earlier what happen is 

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every Airline was doing their 
own pricing. 

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And this then they started 
paying Consulting companies to 

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do it for them. 
Specialized Consulting companies

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may be Bane was doing it. 
Mackenzie was doing it, I don't 

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know. 
And then it became so 

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commoditized. 
Now anybody can Loop in an API 

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and get these pricing done 
automatically for an airline, 

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right? 
So that's going to happen for 

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each and every industry when you
think about how it's going to 

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evolve. 
First, it's going to be have to 

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be custom-built. 
Then you will see Consulting, 

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companies do it. 
And then you'll see automated 

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Solutions. 
Providing it to you as a service

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as a commodity, which will 
become very cheap. 

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Hmm. 
Well one good idea is to check 

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if your industry is already 
there. 

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Maybe you're not aware of it. 
Is there an automated solution 

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to do pricing for you already? 
Then? 

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Yes, let's do it. 
It won't be too expensive if 

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it's already commoditized. 
Thanks so much for answering all

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my questions. 
Do you have any resources that 

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listeners can can retrieve maybe
from your website or any social 

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platforms? 
Well, in a few months and 

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release In my first book. 
Hmm, welcome, you to come by. 

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It it is toward an expert guide 
to pricing for. 

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Now, connect with me on 
LinkedIn, please and attend this

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Workshop. 
I'm going to conduct at PPS in 

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Barcelona, and December 7th. 
So these are places to start and

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I am not an expert in all walks 
of pricing, but I do have a good

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enough Network in many places. 
If I can, I will help you guys 

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connect with the right people to
take it Forward, also as well. 

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L. 
Okay. 

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Sounds like a plan with thank 
you so much mr. 

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Kiran and we look forward to 
seeing you in Barcelona and just

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a couple of weeks that was good.
Thank you so much Darren's. 

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My name is Kiran, gong ji Gan GE
you will easily find me on 

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LinkedIn. 
I hope to see you at the 

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Barcelona conference at the 
listeners and you also Terrance 

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absolutely.