1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:02,680 Hello and thank you all for tuning into another episode of 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:04,520 Professional Pricing Society Podcast. 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,640 My name is Terrence and we have another duo we're going to be 4 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,880 speaking with and that is Adnan Akbar and Derek Neal, both 5 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,520 withholding advisors and both expected to be at our fall 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,480 pricing conference in Atlanta this October. 7 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,320 They're going to be speaking with us about driving pricing 8 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:25,080 power through innovation. With nearly 20 years of 9 00:00:25,080 --> 00:00:28,080 experience and consultative and in house roles across energy 10 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,840 management, technology and insurance and leading growth 11 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,840 initiatives within Fortune 500 companies, Adnon specializes in 12 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,440 helping firms commercialize software based offerings. 13 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,320 And with over 10 years of operational and consulting 14 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,640 experience within the enterprise software, private equity and 15 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,200 financial services industry, Derek manages pricing projects 16 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,680 for cross industry clients working with teams to improve 17 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,480 profitability in the market position. 18 00:00:53,270 --> 00:00:54,470 Gentlemen, how are we doing today? 19 00:00:55,670 --> 00:00:57,870 Doing great, happy to be here. Excellent. 20 00:00:58,470 --> 00:00:59,950 Hello, Karen. Hey, guys. 21 00:00:59,950 --> 00:01:01,230 Thanks so much for being here with us. 22 00:01:01,230 --> 00:01:02,630 It's going to be a great conversation. 23 00:01:02,870 --> 00:01:06,950 You guys do have a workshop in Atlanta during this, our fall 24 00:01:06,950 --> 00:01:09,510 conference called Driving pricing Power through 25 00:01:09,510 --> 00:01:11,270 innovation. And so I want to go ahead and 26 00:01:11,270 --> 00:01:14,390 just jump right into the conversation and I want to ask 27 00:01:14,390 --> 00:01:18,030 you as the first question, can you help us unpack the topic for 28 00:01:18,030 --> 00:01:19,430 us? You know, why did you choose 29 00:01:19,630 --> 00:01:22,430 this topic of driving pricing power through innovation? 30 00:01:22,850 --> 00:01:25,290 Yeah, I can maybe give a sense of it and you know Derek feel 31 00:01:25,290 --> 00:01:28,850 free to jump in. So we've been at a number of 32 00:01:28,850 --> 00:01:31,810 conferences and have have the opportunity to do, you know, a 33 00:01:31,890 --> 00:01:35,930 few different workshops and this one in particular I'm super 34 00:01:35,930 --> 00:01:38,490 excited about particularly because when we engage with 35 00:01:38,490 --> 00:01:43,570 clients, we have the opportunity to really get a sense of why is 36 00:01:43,570 --> 00:01:45,170 it that their customers buy from them. 37 00:01:45,690 --> 00:01:49,850 And what we often find is that they are providing, you know, 38 00:01:49,850 --> 00:01:52,290 massive amounts of value to their customers. 39 00:01:52,780 --> 00:01:56,620 And spending a lot of time engaging with customers, 40 00:01:56,780 --> 00:01:59,620 gathering feedback from customers, internalizing that 41 00:01:59,620 --> 00:02:02,900 feedback and thinking through, OK, what can we do next that is 42 00:02:02,900 --> 00:02:06,380 going to make that is going to make sense for a broad set of 43 00:02:06,380 --> 00:02:09,699 customers, but is also an attractive option for us. 44 00:02:10,139 --> 00:02:12,300 Point being, they're trying to walk away and figure out where 45 00:02:12,300 --> 00:02:15,580 to invest to come up with the next best thing, which in many 46 00:02:15,580 --> 00:02:18,340 ways is the essence of innovation, in order for that 47 00:02:18,340 --> 00:02:20,700 innovation to work in order for it to be commercialized. 48 00:02:21,420 --> 00:02:25,060 And in order to scale across their customers that 49 00:02:25,060 --> 00:02:28,460 commercialization strategy of which pricing is such a big part 50 00:02:28,460 --> 00:02:32,220 of is just so, so important. How are you going to take this 51 00:02:32,220 --> 00:02:37,220 to market once this product feature set enhancement is built 52 00:02:37,220 --> 00:02:39,420 up and how are you going to ensure that it has staying 53 00:02:39,420 --> 00:02:41,420 power? How are you going to ensure that 54 00:02:41,620 --> 00:02:45,860 it does in fact meet the needs of your actual customers? 55 00:02:46,830 --> 00:02:50,350 So all of those things are aspects that we are super 56 00:02:50,350 --> 00:02:54,270 excited about taking the audience through at the PPS 57 00:02:54,270 --> 00:02:58,350 Conference in October. And one thing I'll add, add 58 00:02:58,470 --> 00:03:01,510 Adnan. So one of the common themes that 59 00:03:01,510 --> 00:03:06,390 we hear a lot when we talk to pricers is how they they they 60 00:03:06,470 --> 00:03:08,510 they sit at the center of the corporation. 61 00:03:08,550 --> 00:03:13,310 I think there was a keynote at PPS last spring that talked 62 00:03:13,310 --> 00:03:15,710 about pricing as being the center of the universe. 63 00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:19,840 So pricing is truly a cross functional function. 64 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,360 Pricing teams need to kind of stay locked at the hip with the 65 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,120 sales team, business development team, marketing leadership, 66 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,000 product development, technology, etc. 67 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,760 So this is one of the things that I love about pricing and 68 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,120 it's something that comes up all the time when I speak to 69 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,570 pricers. And then this spring, Adnan, 70 00:03:38,890 --> 00:03:44,010 during the the Holden Advisors workshop at at PPS in Dallas, we 71 00:03:44,010 --> 00:03:46,810 really focused on the link between pricing and sales. 72 00:03:46,810 --> 00:03:50,810 So that cross functional pricing sales link the need need for 73 00:03:50,810 --> 00:03:54,210 pricers to coordinate with sellers in their companies to 74 00:03:54,290 --> 00:03:58,290 identify, quantify, communicate value to customers. 75 00:03:59,530 --> 00:04:03,090 And then this year, I think one of the reasons that we picked 76 00:04:03,090 --> 00:04:05,130 this topic and one of the reasons the topic is interesting 77 00:04:05,130 --> 00:04:06,930 to me. Is that it? 78 00:04:07,410 --> 00:04:10,970 It gives us the opportunity to explore a different connection 79 00:04:10,970 --> 00:04:14,210 point that's that's important for pricers and that's the 80 00:04:14,210 --> 00:04:17,570 connection between pricing and product development or 81 00:04:17,570 --> 00:04:20,170 engineering teams. So those in the organization 82 00:04:20,170 --> 00:04:22,930 that are responsible for innovation, developing new 83 00:04:22,930 --> 00:04:26,570 products, adding new features. So that's one thing I like about 84 00:04:26,570 --> 00:04:30,090 this topic is that it gives us the opportunity to kind of focus 85 00:04:30,090 --> 00:04:33,810 the other direction in the value chain on the relationship 86 00:04:33,810 --> 00:04:35,650 between pricing and product development. 87 00:04:36,020 --> 00:04:39,580 And how to have the pricing organization involved in product 88 00:04:39,580 --> 00:04:43,660 innovation early in the process, that's interesting, okay, cool. 89 00:04:43,660 --> 00:04:46,500 So you're kind of taking it into a different direction this year 90 00:04:46,740 --> 00:04:49,260 or this conference compared to the spring conference. 91 00:04:50,020 --> 00:04:54,300 Now, you mentioned innovation and working with the engineering 92 00:04:54,540 --> 00:04:57,870 individuals. Do you mind elaborate on that? 93 00:04:58,390 --> 00:05:00,550 Either one of you welcome, feel free to elaborate. 94 00:05:00,550 --> 00:05:03,870 But what do you mean by innovation and pricing power? 95 00:05:03,870 --> 00:05:06,670 And if you don't mind defining that in correlation to your 96 00:05:06,670 --> 00:05:10,990 specific workshop. Absolutely happy to give a bit 97 00:05:10,990 --> 00:05:15,310 more context on those two terms. We hear them all the time, but 98 00:05:15,310 --> 00:05:17,510 they might not always be so clearly defined. 99 00:05:19,530 --> 00:05:21,890 So we think of innovation in a few ways. 100 00:05:22,450 --> 00:05:25,050 So the the first type of innovation is product 101 00:05:25,050 --> 00:05:28,090 innovation. That's kind of the common way 102 00:05:28,090 --> 00:05:30,410 that folks think about it. Product innovation I think comes 103 00:05:30,410 --> 00:05:33,650 in in kind of two flavors you can innovate up. 104 00:05:33,650 --> 00:05:36,130 It's probably what most folks think about when they think of 105 00:05:36,130 --> 00:05:38,690 innovation. Essentially it's just thinking 106 00:05:38,690 --> 00:05:42,650 of ways to add value and hopefully price to to a product 107 00:05:42,650 --> 00:05:45,730 or service that you provide added by adding features that 108 00:05:45,730 --> 00:05:47,490 the customers is willing to pay for. 109 00:05:48,750 --> 00:05:52,070 And then I think the second flavor of product innovation is 110 00:05:52,670 --> 00:05:55,750 innovating down. So actually thinking about ways 111 00:05:56,030 --> 00:06:01,550 to create a new lower value, maybe flanking product or 112 00:06:01,550 --> 00:06:04,790 service, stripping out some features to provide like an 113 00:06:04,790 --> 00:06:08,190 entry level option, those are benefits. 114 00:06:09,690 --> 00:06:12,570 That's a way to innovate, to kind of help protect the 115 00:06:12,570 --> 00:06:16,090 profitability of your main product and give an option for 116 00:06:16,090 --> 00:06:18,890 more price sensitive customers, which we call price buyers. 117 00:06:19,210 --> 00:06:24,570 But then I think even beyond product innovation, one of the 118 00:06:24,570 --> 00:06:27,050 things we'll talk about during the workshop is like pricing 119 00:06:27,210 --> 00:06:31,090 innovation. And so that's the ability to 120 00:06:31,090 --> 00:06:34,010 innovate around your price model, your price metric, the 121 00:06:34,010 --> 00:06:36,210 value drivers that your pricing is based on. 122 00:06:36,210 --> 00:06:40,440 And I think that's one of the. One of the pillars to gaining or 123 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,640 maintaining pricing power is having a really dynamic 124 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:46,800 forward-looking innovative pricing model. 125 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,200 And then the third thing that we talk about in terms of 126 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,400 innovation, it can be bucketed into a large bucket of 127 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,720 organizational innovation. So how you change the way that 128 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,360 people, processes and technology come together? 129 00:07:01,830 --> 00:07:05,070 In your in your organization to approve, improve your pricing 130 00:07:05,070 --> 00:07:08,390 power so, so that's a broad topic during during the workshop 131 00:07:08,390 --> 00:07:11,030 we'll we'll focus kind of through the lens of the pricing 132 00:07:11,030 --> 00:07:14,950 function. How can you, as a pricer, 133 00:07:14,950 --> 00:07:18,350 empower the people in the organization to identify, 134 00:07:18,350 --> 00:07:21,590 quantify, and communicate value? Or or or what organizational 135 00:07:21,590 --> 00:07:26,470 mechanisms can you establish to ensure that the pricers remain 136 00:07:26,470 --> 00:07:28,750 aware of and aligned to the other functions in the 137 00:07:28,750 --> 00:07:31,230 organization? So that was a long answer on 138 00:07:31,230 --> 00:07:32,710 innovation. I don't know, I'm not if you 139 00:07:32,710 --> 00:07:34,750 have anything to add. Otherwise, we can kind of talk 140 00:07:34,750 --> 00:07:37,390 about pricing power. Yeah, Yeah. 141 00:07:37,390 --> 00:07:40,270 I mean, I think when I think about innovation, the piece that 142 00:07:41,150 --> 00:07:43,110 I think initially comes to mind is. 143 00:07:44,030 --> 00:07:46,910 So let me go back up for a second and talk about our 144 00:07:46,910 --> 00:07:48,670 approach. And you know, at Holden 145 00:07:48,670 --> 00:07:54,190 Advisors, we often talk about value and the question is how 146 00:07:54,190 --> 00:07:59,030 much we take a regimented approach to determine. 147 00:07:59,530 --> 00:08:01,650 How much value you are delivering to customers. 148 00:08:01,930 --> 00:08:06,250 So for example, right, we have, we'll go through a process with 149 00:08:06,250 --> 00:08:10,570 a number of different types of inputs to say, let's estimate 150 00:08:10,570 --> 00:08:14,090 this out and we've determined that you've provided $50,000 of 151 00:08:14,090 --> 00:08:17,250 annual value to your customers as a result of your product or 152 00:08:17,250 --> 00:08:19,410 or service. And you know that could be as a 153 00:08:19,410 --> 00:08:22,330 result of offering them the ability to increase their 154 00:08:22,330 --> 00:08:24,930 revenue cost savings, decreasing risk, whatever it may be. 155 00:08:24,930 --> 00:08:27,970 There's a quantification exercise when I think about 156 00:08:27,970 --> 00:08:30,210 innovation. One way to think about that 157 00:08:30,210 --> 00:08:32,409 innovation and probably say the most common way which Derek 158 00:08:32,409 --> 00:08:36,890 alluded to is you take that $50,000 and now because of your 159 00:08:36,890 --> 00:08:40,289 innovation you find you you found a better way to do it. 160 00:08:40,289 --> 00:08:41,890 You found incremental innovation. 161 00:08:42,010 --> 00:08:45,890 Now that $50,000. Value on an annual basis it's 162 00:08:45,890 --> 00:08:49,250 $100,000 because you are providing more value, you know 163 00:08:49,250 --> 00:08:52,530 it's a logical and I think fair to be able to charge more for 164 00:08:52,530 --> 00:08:54,330 your product or service as a result of that. 165 00:08:55,330 --> 00:09:01,250 The other scenario is that OK for that $50,000 it's fair for 166 00:09:01,250 --> 00:09:04,370 the the customer to keep a portion of that value and it's 167 00:09:04,370 --> 00:09:07,450 also fair for the company to keep a portion of that value. 168 00:09:09,530 --> 00:09:12,210 The question become and the question then becomes what 169 00:09:12,210 --> 00:09:16,170 portion is fair. What we we refer to that as the 170 00:09:16,170 --> 00:09:18,890 capture rate or the portion of that that the company would take 171 00:09:18,890 --> 00:09:23,010 in as a result of innovation. You can put some thought into 172 00:09:23,730 --> 00:09:26,650 what are some of the levers that I could pull to make that 173 00:09:26,650 --> 00:09:29,210 capture rate fluctuate. Should that number be okay, It's 174 00:09:29,210 --> 00:09:30,890 fair for me to take 10% of that value. 175 00:09:31,210 --> 00:09:34,210 Should it be, well, it's fair for me to take 20% of that 176 00:09:34,210 --> 00:09:35,530 value. It's hard to say. 177 00:09:35,850 --> 00:09:38,130 A lot of different factors come into play, but we will talk 178 00:09:38,130 --> 00:09:43,520 about some innovative ways. To pull both of those levers 179 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,080 meaning like how do you increase that total value, how do you 180 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,960 quantify that, how do you measure that or how do you 181 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,680 change the portion of the value that that you can take. 182 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,080 And I think that does actually touch on, you know there was a 183 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,040 two-part question because I think you asked about what 184 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,640 innovation and pricing power is and it's really tying those two 185 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,400 together which is going to be the core of our workshop. 186 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,120 Nice. Your workshop sounds like it's 187 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,860 going to be jam packed with insights about innovation and 188 00:10:09,860 --> 00:10:11,340 pricing power. So this is really good. 189 00:10:11,980 --> 00:10:15,260 Now how does innovation and really monetizing that 190 00:10:15,260 --> 00:10:18,980 innovation help a company build and maintain pricing power? 191 00:10:18,980 --> 00:10:21,780 You guys kind of alluded to it previously, but if you don't 192 00:10:21,780 --> 00:10:25,140 mind expounding on that as well. Sure. 193 00:10:25,140 --> 00:10:29,500 So, so pricing power is something we've been talking 194 00:10:29,580 --> 00:10:31,820 about at Holden Advisors a lot lately. 195 00:10:32,420 --> 00:10:36,540 I think simply we think of pricing power as as the ability 196 00:10:36,540 --> 00:10:40,360 to increase prices without. Decreasing demand for the 197 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,320 product. So if you think of companies 198 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,640 like Apple or Ferrari or Lululemon, seems like those 199 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,240 companies can charge anything they want for their products 200 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,640 without decreasing, decreasing demand. 201 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:55,880 So pricing power as a concept is, is is closely tied to price 202 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:57,720 elasticity of demand for the product. 203 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,440 But we don't need to get into the meth and those examples were 204 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,080 all luxury products, but we we see pricing power in in all 205 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,080 other types of of companies and industries as well. 206 00:11:07,670 --> 00:11:10,550 So as long as the the product or service is highly 207 00:11:10,550 --> 00:11:15,030 differentiated, we we see, we see pricing powers from you know 208 00:11:15,070 --> 00:11:18,670 everything from commodities to to highly niche markets. 209 00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:21,590 We think of pricing power as as a 0 sum game. 210 00:11:21,950 --> 00:11:24,830 So some companies have it and some companies don't and if you 211 00:11:24,830 --> 00:11:27,310 have it, you want to maintain it and if you don't have it, you 212 00:11:27,310 --> 00:11:31,150 want to acquire it. And as Anan was alluding to, we 213 00:11:31,150 --> 00:11:33,830 think innovation is one of those, one of the one of the 214 00:11:33,830 --> 00:11:36,550 keys, if not the key to maintaining. 215 00:11:36,910 --> 00:11:39,870 Maintaining pricing power, but it's really all about ensuring 216 00:11:39,870 --> 00:11:44,110 that the the right sort of innovation is, is happening 217 00:11:44,310 --> 00:11:46,630 within the organization to maintain pricing power. 218 00:11:46,950 --> 00:11:49,750 So in terms of product innovation, it's about providing 219 00:11:49,750 --> 00:11:52,190 the right set of products with the right features and the right 220 00:11:52,190 --> 00:11:57,950 value at the right price to kind of ensure price value alignment 221 00:11:57,950 --> 00:12:02,110 with your with your customers. So if you if you do that well, 222 00:12:02,230 --> 00:12:05,260 it helps you either gain. Or maintain, if you have it 223 00:12:05,260 --> 00:12:06,580 already, price and power in the market. 224 00:12:07,020 --> 00:12:09,660 And when it comes to monetizing that innovation, one of the 225 00:12:09,660 --> 00:12:12,300 things that we see a lot with our clients, I can kind of give 226 00:12:12,300 --> 00:12:15,660 an example, It's the idea of the consumption gap. 227 00:12:16,380 --> 00:12:19,700 So this happens frequently with technology companies, so both 228 00:12:19,700 --> 00:12:23,740 hardware and software. And it's the idea that new 229 00:12:23,740 --> 00:12:27,780 features are added to a product oftentimes faster than customers 230 00:12:27,780 --> 00:12:30,940 of that product are able to consume those features. 231 00:12:31,330 --> 00:12:34,010 Or let alone value those features or be willing to pay 232 00:12:34,010 --> 00:12:40,370 for them so often time. If you take for example a 233 00:12:40,370 --> 00:12:44,890 subscription based SaaS software offering, there's kind of an 234 00:12:44,890 --> 00:12:48,690 interesting psychological effect that will take place if you add 235 00:12:48,690 --> 00:12:51,570 features to a product that a customer isn't interested in or 236 00:12:51,570 --> 00:12:54,220 won't use. Even if you don't increase the 237 00:12:54,220 --> 00:12:56,700 price, even if you don't increase the price, you actually 238 00:12:56,700 --> 00:13:00,620 decrease that value to price ratio for the product. 239 00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:03,620 Because customers see features in the product that they don't 240 00:13:03,620 --> 00:13:06,140 want and they say I don't want that, I don't need that, I don't 241 00:13:06,140 --> 00:13:08,980 wanna pay for that, lower my price and that actually can hurt 242 00:13:08,980 --> 00:13:13,100 the value of the product in the eyes of customers that are not 243 00:13:13,100 --> 00:13:16,660 using those new features. So that's the consumption gap. 244 00:13:17,620 --> 00:13:21,150 We see that a lot. You know this proliferation of 245 00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:25,550 unnecessary product features, unnecessary complexity the 246 00:13:25,550 --> 00:13:28,590 engineering teams can can get overzealous. 247 00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:30,990 You know, they're focused on the technology they're they're 248 00:13:30,990 --> 00:13:34,310 nerding out on the technology, not necessarily always thinking 249 00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:36,190 about things from the perspective of the customer. 250 00:13:37,830 --> 00:13:41,150 And then they they develop and add features that the, the, the, 251 00:13:41,230 --> 00:13:43,910 the customer's not not ready, at least not ready yet. 252 00:13:44,350 --> 00:13:47,270 To. So that whole idea that that's 253 00:13:47,270 --> 00:13:50,150 something that we'll we'll explore in the workshop, that's 254 00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:54,710 a common that we see that an an organization that can degrade an 255 00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:57,990 organization's pricing power. Okay, interesting. 256 00:13:57,990 --> 00:14:00,990 Okay, cool. Now look, many organizations and 257 00:14:00,990 --> 00:14:03,950 companies do already have robust innovation programs in place to 258 00:14:03,950 --> 00:14:07,830 help them grow and also to meet their evolving customer needs. 259 00:14:08,670 --> 00:14:11,150 But you have to ask yourself, you know what can really be 260 00:14:11,150 --> 00:14:14,570 improved now? You know, that's that's one of 261 00:14:14,570 --> 00:14:16,690 the $1,000,000 questions. Since they're on innovation, 262 00:14:16,690 --> 00:14:19,890 what can be improved I. Think it's a great question. 263 00:14:20,650 --> 00:14:23,730 I've been part of, you know, small and large organizations, 264 00:14:24,210 --> 00:14:30,530 and what I've seen is that organizations of all sizes do 265 00:14:30,530 --> 00:14:37,530 put a lot of time, resources and emphasis on creating innovation, 266 00:14:37,770 --> 00:14:41,450 whether that's, you know, having a process where they can. 267 00:14:42,210 --> 00:14:46,130 Farm ideas from their existing teams have competitions or even 268 00:14:46,130 --> 00:14:49,250 like separate out groups that are specifically dedicated to 269 00:14:49,250 --> 00:14:51,970 innovation so that they have that kind of future in mind for 270 00:14:51,970 --> 00:14:54,730 organizations. And I think that often works 271 00:14:54,730 --> 00:14:58,770 really well. The gap that we see I think is 272 00:14:58,890 --> 00:15:03,210 in many ways what Derek just alluded to with the concept of a 273 00:15:03,570 --> 00:15:07,250 consumption gap, because what it boils down to is that. 274 00:15:08,850 --> 00:15:13,370 Is this new product feature or service aligned with the 275 00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:15,490 customer needs at that specific time? 276 00:15:15,850 --> 00:15:20,570 And then taking that one step further, is the organization set 277 00:15:20,570 --> 00:15:23,570 up to be able to monetize that in the right way? 278 00:15:23,770 --> 00:15:28,170 Meaning that Okay for example, we've come out with this new 279 00:15:28,170 --> 00:15:32,450 platform that can run artificial intelligence that can and can 280 00:15:32,450 --> 00:15:36,090 enhance dishes making. So we've got this product. 281 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,040 And it's ready to go and based on our customer conversations, 282 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,240 we've talked to them and we feel like this can add some 283 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,200 significant value to our customers. 284 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,360 But we've got a sales force out there of 1000 different people 285 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,120 with varying levels of skill in in different types of 286 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,240 experience. Are they ready to be able to 287 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,080 sell this? Are they ready to be able to 288 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,160 communicate the value that this can offer their their customers? 289 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:00,640 Do they know? Kind of. 290 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,920 How to price this thing, how to negotiate and do they really 291 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,200 kind of have they bought into that commercialization model? 292 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,160 That's one aspect of it. The other aspect is you know 293 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,920 with innovation it can be quite complex and if you're looking at 294 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,160 you know in the example that I gave about a platform based 295 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,600 infrastructure that can help run AI, is the customers 296 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,600 infrastructure ready for something like that? 297 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:25,400 Is this going to impact them in the right way? 298 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,090 That's possible so. Point being that there's all of 299 00:16:28,090 --> 00:16:31,650 these different considerations that come into play and it's 300 00:16:31,650 --> 00:16:34,690 really in my experience it's about having that organizational 301 00:16:34,690 --> 00:16:38,570 tie in between product teams, between sales teams, between 302 00:16:38,570 --> 00:16:41,290 marketing teams, between pricing teams, the entire 303 00:16:41,290 --> 00:16:43,850 commercialization team. So they're they're speaking the 304 00:16:43,850 --> 00:16:47,370 same language that can translate some of these high value 305 00:16:48,130 --> 00:16:53,250 features to something that is going to impact the customer and 306 00:16:53,250 --> 00:16:55,610 can be communicated in simple terms. 307 00:16:56,050 --> 00:16:57,970 Throughout the sales and purchasing process. 308 00:16:58,410 --> 00:17:02,210 So that's I think the the biggest gap is being able to 309 00:17:02,210 --> 00:17:05,170 connect the dots within organizations so they can take 310 00:17:05,170 --> 00:17:08,010 it to market in such a way that it's reflective of the value 311 00:17:08,010 --> 00:17:10,609 they have. And it just to give you a couple 312 00:17:10,609 --> 00:17:13,130 examples of or maybe want a single single example. 313 00:17:13,130 --> 00:17:16,170 What we often see is, you know, an example I gave earlier where 314 00:17:16,170 --> 00:17:20,770 an organization generating $50,000 worth of value the the 315 00:17:20,770 --> 00:17:24,130 reason they are generating so much value is because there's 316 00:17:24,130 --> 00:17:27,349 years of innovation behind it. But what we're finding is that 317 00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:31,430 the prices they're charging are far, far below the value they 318 00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:35,550 are delivering to customers. And I think the take away, one 319 00:17:35,550 --> 00:17:37,510 of the some of the takeaways that we walk away with is that 320 00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:40,750 they've done such a good job with innovation and they've 321 00:17:40,750 --> 00:17:43,710 differentiated from their customers and that they're 322 00:17:43,710 --> 00:17:46,310 delivering so much value, but their prices are not reflective 323 00:17:46,350 --> 00:17:48,980 of that. So we've got some, you know, 324 00:17:48,980 --> 00:17:51,900 general analysis that we'll go through within the workshop to 325 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:54,940 say okay, what are some quick things that you may want to look 326 00:17:54,940 --> 00:17:58,100 for to get a sense of, are you under monetized? 327 00:17:58,340 --> 00:18:01,340 Is there not it has there been innovation that you've not been 328 00:18:01,340 --> 00:18:04,260 fully taking advantage of? And then the other aspect is how 329 00:18:04,260 --> 00:18:06,940 do you prioritize innovation. So I think a lot of those kind 330 00:18:06,940 --> 00:18:11,900 of tie in elements come into play and we'll go into a lot of 331 00:18:11,980 --> 00:18:16,500 depth in the course of our workshop that you know you 332 00:18:16,500 --> 00:18:20,060 paint, you guys both paint the picture of should you as a 333 00:18:20,060 --> 00:18:22,620 company even ready to innovate and if they are, you know how do 334 00:18:22,620 --> 00:18:26,420 they communicate that and and are they under monetizing, over 335 00:18:26,420 --> 00:18:28,540 monetizing is that at the even a thing when it comes to 336 00:18:28,540 --> 00:18:30,780 innovation. So that's very interesting 337 00:18:30,820 --> 00:18:34,700 aspects regarding innovation from a pricing from professional 338 00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:38,300 pricers like you both. Now let me ask you this question 339 00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:41,500 as well. Are there signs that an 340 00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:44,740 organization is not realizing their full benefit? 341 00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:47,950 Love their innovation. Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. 342 00:18:47,950 --> 00:18:51,830 I mean and that's it's one of the things that we'll go into. 343 00:18:51,870 --> 00:18:56,990 So you know for example, I think one of the things that one of 344 00:18:56,990 --> 00:19:01,630 the quick things that we look for is to analyze the the 345 00:19:01,630 --> 00:19:05,430 customer base. And if you go in and look at a 346 00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:08,990 customer base and say what customers are just they they 347 00:19:09,230 --> 00:19:11,550 absolutely love you guys, this is great. 348 00:19:11,870 --> 00:19:16,720 Nobody ever cancels. That's a good thing because you 349 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,360 want to have customer stickiness. 350 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:22,840 But that begs the question on are you monetizing things in the 351 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,560 right way for companies that have, you know, thousands and 352 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,320 thousands of customers? It's likely a bit odd that 353 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,320 customers aren't looking for other alternatives or anything 354 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,400 like that. And a sign of having some 355 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,760 customer turnover, not not too much, where it's negatively 356 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,760 impacting your business? That can be a positive because 357 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,520 not every organization is set up to fulfill the needs of all all 358 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,320 customers. They're often operating in 359 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,400 different segments and that's kind of the benefit of 360 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,280 competition because its competitors do different things 361 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,360 well. But if your customers are 362 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:03,440 sticking with you, then are. If every customer is always 363 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,880 sticking with you, that is assigned to further explore to 364 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,850 say you know what. What would be the impact if we 365 00:20:09,850 --> 00:20:14,050 were to better monetize some of the innovations that we've had 366 00:20:14,050 --> 00:20:16,970 today? Anything to add there, Derek? 367 00:20:18,490 --> 00:20:23,890 No, I just, I just reiterate it's all about understanding the 368 00:20:23,890 --> 00:20:28,810 voice of the customer, the nuances between the different 369 00:20:29,050 --> 00:20:34,090 customer use cases for a different product and I think in 370 00:20:34,090 --> 00:20:38,550 many cases it falls on the. The pricing organization or the 371 00:20:38,550 --> 00:20:42,470 pricing team to be that bridge between sales and product 372 00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:45,270 development to ensure that you're monetizing innovations 373 00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:48,790 correctly or even in some cases directly between the customer 374 00:20:48,790 --> 00:20:53,150 and product development to ensure that innovative solutions 375 00:20:53,150 --> 00:20:57,350 are monetized effectively. Good, Okay, good. 376 00:20:57,870 --> 00:20:59,790 So there are signs and they need to be aware. 377 00:21:01,230 --> 00:21:04,230 That's good. Now you guys have really been 378 00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:06,270 speaking on this throughout the whole. 379 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,560 Discussion about what attendees will learn. 380 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:11,520 But is there? I mean, I want to ask you guys 381 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,720 individually, is there anything that you are most excited for 382 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,760 attendees to learn during your workshop? 383 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,080 Because they're going to learn a lot of things and this is going 384 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,120 to be a very insightful workshop. 385 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,520 Yeah. For me, I think the number one 386 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:29,880 thing is like we want to take attendees through the process 387 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,560 from start to finish. And in the background what we 388 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:39,480 are going to layer in is picking a part at the most granular 389 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,440 level. An example of something that we 390 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:48,000 have worked through where a company has asked us to help 391 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,640 them best monetize their innovation. 392 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,840 So we're going to take them through that process from start 393 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:54,640 to finish. What I'm personally most excited 394 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,720 about is to be able to learn from the collective knowledge of 395 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:03,540 attendees to say to get a sense of how is this occurring in your 396 00:22:03,540 --> 00:22:06,940 respective organizations and being able to get to a point 397 00:22:06,940 --> 00:22:10,620 where we say these are some commonalities that we are 398 00:22:10,620 --> 00:22:12,100 observing as a result of the knowledge. 399 00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:16,740 Because you know, I think our what what I'm most excited about 400 00:22:16,740 --> 00:22:18,900 is the opportunity to facilitate some of these conversations. 401 00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:22,540 But I think the true learning happens from attendees engaging 402 00:22:22,540 --> 00:22:25,500 with each other and to say okay, this is a problem at this type 403 00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:27,900 of organization. Industries could be completely 404 00:22:27,900 --> 00:22:30,540 different, but they're all these commonalities and this is 405 00:22:30,540 --> 00:22:33,420 something that we have used to best approach that. 406 00:22:33,420 --> 00:22:36,180 Whether that's, you know, shifting our customers from 407 00:22:36,180 --> 00:22:40,020 looking at one price metric to another so that we can 408 00:22:40,020 --> 00:22:42,660 capitalize on innovation, thinking about the different 409 00:22:42,660 --> 00:22:46,300 types of price models that can that best resonate with perhaps 410 00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:49,740 different customer segments or building out these processes 411 00:22:49,740 --> 00:22:51,940 from an innovation perspective that like I was saying earlier, 412 00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:53,740 connect the dots within the organization. 413 00:22:53,740 --> 00:22:57,180 So I'm definitely excited to be able to run through some of the 414 00:22:57,180 --> 00:22:59,700 content that we have. But what excites me is a little 415 00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:03,260 bit more is to get the reactions from the room and just try to 416 00:23:03,340 --> 00:23:04,900 build on that. Collective knowledge is 417 00:23:05,300 --> 00:23:07,660 collective knowledge from the attendees. 418 00:23:09,620 --> 00:23:12,140 Yeah. And just ADD we're we're really 419 00:23:12,140 --> 00:23:14,740 focused on making this workshop practical. 420 00:23:15,660 --> 00:23:19,260 So one of the things that I'm most excited about for the 421 00:23:19,260 --> 00:23:23,940 workshop in Atlanta is this tool that we we plan to bring to the 422 00:23:23,940 --> 00:23:27,380 workshop to to kind of kind of make it real and make it 423 00:23:27,380 --> 00:23:29,620 practical for workshop attendees so. 424 00:23:30,090 --> 00:23:34,850 It's a it's a pricing innovation tool, just a prebuilt Excel 425 00:23:34,850 --> 00:23:37,770 tool. We'll be using it in in various 426 00:23:37,770 --> 00:23:42,130 exercises throughout the workshop to help price pricers, 427 00:23:43,210 --> 00:23:46,970 one discover and document the value of innovation innovative 428 00:23:46,970 --> 00:23:50,130 products, and to calculate the the actually calculate the price 429 00:23:50,130 --> 00:23:51,970 for an innovative product of their own. 430 00:23:52,250 --> 00:23:54,690 So whether that's a new product, a brand new product, a 431 00:23:54,690 --> 00:23:58,570 repackaged product or just a incrementally innovative 432 00:23:58,690 --> 00:24:03,030 solution. Workshop attendees will leave 433 00:24:03,030 --> 00:24:07,870 the workshop with a head start and a practical guide on on how 434 00:24:07,870 --> 00:24:10,990 to start thinking about pricing that solution within their 435 00:24:11,310 --> 00:24:14,870 within their organizations. So we're super excited to see 436 00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:17,510 everyone in Atlanta. It should be a should be a great 437 00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:19,870 time it. Is going to be a great time. 438 00:24:19,870 --> 00:24:21,670 Thanks so much guys for your time. 439 00:24:21,670 --> 00:24:24,430 Speaking with me today, Adnan Akbari and Derek Neil, 440 00:24:24,430 --> 00:24:26,550 Withholding Advisors. Before I let you guys go, I want 441 00:24:27,070 --> 00:24:28,110 to ask you guys one more question. 442 00:24:28,110 --> 00:24:31,730 Where can listeners? Visit or go to to learn more 443 00:24:31,730 --> 00:24:35,530 about you guys individually, your company or what to just, 444 00:24:35,530 --> 00:24:37,490 you know, any kind of resource you have out there for 445 00:24:37,490 --> 00:24:40,170 listeners. Yeah, we'd love for attendees to 446 00:24:40,650 --> 00:24:45,690 check out our website holdenadvisors.com and you can 447 00:24:45,810 --> 00:24:50,450 get a more of a sense of our company, our approach, and learn 448 00:24:50,450 --> 00:24:53,450 a little bit more us about learn a little bit more about us. 449 00:24:55,020 --> 00:24:57,180 Okay, awesome. And also LinkedIn as well in 450 00:24:57,180 --> 00:24:58,820 case they want to connect individually. 451 00:24:58,820 --> 00:25:00,300 That's all as a great resource as well. 452 00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:01,940 So thank you guys so much for your time. 453 00:25:01,940 --> 00:25:03,900 They are going to be at the conference October 10th through 454 00:25:03,900 --> 00:25:07,500 the 13th here in Atlanta, GA for our fall conference. 455 00:25:08,140 --> 00:25:09,740 Until next time you guys have a good one. 456 00:25:10,060 --> 00:25:10,340 Bye, bye.