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Hello everyone, and welcome to 
Let's Talk Pricing, the official

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podcast of the Professional 
Pricing Society. 

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I'm Kevin Mitchell from PPS, and
today we are going to discuss a 

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topic that has become 
increasingly critical for 

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pricing professionals, for 
business leaders, for revenue 

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managers around the world, and 
that is how to protect your 

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pricing power in the face of 
tariffs and global volatility. 

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And great news today as we're 
joined by someone with deep 

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insight into the space. 
Very happy that Mister Jeet 

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Mukherjee, who is the Chief 
Strategy Officer at Holden 

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Advisors is with us today. 
Jeet brings over 25 years of 

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experience. 
I think that made you start when

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he was 12. 
He is an expert in strategy, 

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analytics, pricing, and 
marketing. 

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He has worked with business 
leaders from Fortune 100 

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companies to founders of 
innovative startups. 

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He's helped organizations 
respond to market shifts with 

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confidence and clarity. 
We are thrilled that he is going

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to deliver a keynote address at 
the PPS Profitable Conference in

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Dallas from May 6th to May 9th. 
Jeets keynote on May 9th. 

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We'll also talk about tariffs 
and how we handle them. 

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And also since we are coming up 
on the Mother's Day, Father's 

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Day graduate gift giving season,
his book Pricing with Confidence

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10 Rules for Increasing Profits 
and Staying Ahead of Inflation 

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is a great gift for the business
oriented moms, dads and grads in

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your life. 
I would certainly recommend 

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that. 
It is a great book. 

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It's a must read for anyone who 
is serious about pricing 

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strategy and some of the things 
that we're talking about today. 

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So, Gee, always good to see you.
Welcome to the podcast today. 

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Thank. 
You. 

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That was that was quite the 
introduction. 

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I love this. 
Yeah. 

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I need to take you with me 
everywhere. 

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That's that's really impressive.
I'm impressed. 

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Absolutely, yeah, as are we all.
And of course, you're someone 

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who has always delivered great 
insights for people in our part 

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of the business world. 
And I'm thinking of the old 

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saying, may you live in 
interesting times because that 

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is certainly what we are in 
right now. 

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Obviously, we have macroeconomic
concerns. 

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We have a lot of volatility. 
We still have some great 

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fluctuations in raw material 
goods. 

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And of course, in our part of 
the world and many other parts 

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of the world, we have tariffs or
the threat of tariffs or maybe 

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tariffs and yes, tariffs and 
lots of other things to discuss 

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there. 
So we're going to start at the 

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top. 
So G tariffs have added a whole 

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new layer of complexity to 
pricing. 

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So how should companies be 
rethinking their general 

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approaches, their strategy in 
this environment where we have a

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lot of, let's say, interesting 
things going on? 

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Yeah, yeah. 
Well, you know, I mean, 

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obviously you, you know me and I
think the best approach is to 

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keep things simple. 
It, it really is, you know, in a

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time of such dynamic sort of ups
and downs and you know, the 

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dynamics sort of rule changes, I
think the best thing is to, to 

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keep things as simple as 
possible. 

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And what I mean by that is I 
don't think there's anybody out 

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there that hasn't heard about 
tariffs and I don't think there 

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isn't anybody out there that's 
not expecting a price increase. 

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So your customer base is already
primed and ready to at least 

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have knowledge of what's 
happening and understand where 

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the type of environment that we 
live in. 

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So from a consumer perspective, 
from AB to B perspective, from 

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all of these folks, everybody's 
prime. 

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So this is not like new 
information. 

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It's not like you're going out 
to talk to your customer and the

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customer goes what what's going 
on? 

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What I've never heard of this 
before. 

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So I think we can keep it simple
that, you know, whatever you're 

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feeling, whatever you're seeing,
whatever is happening, I think 

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it's important to understand 
that you're not alone in this 

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fight. 
So what can you do internally to

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get ready to execute on what's 
already might be there or get 

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ready for what's happening in 
the future? 

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Because I think the problem 
isn't the tariff itself, because

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we've been through this with 
inflation. 

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So if you've been through this 
with inflation, you should have 

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your systems, tools, processes 
already in place to know and 

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understand where and how these 
costs are going to affect you 

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and what kind of contract 
relationships do you have with 

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your customers to be ready for 
that type of a implementation. 

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So you're not surprised because 
remember, you know, Kevin, we 

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did the, I did the keynote two 
years ago or three years ago and

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the, and I interviewed all these
CE OS before that keynote 

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because we were talking about 
inflation at that time. 

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And one of the big things was 
nobody was surprised about 

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inflation, but they were 
surprised. 

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All these CE OS were surprised 
by their inability to respond to

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the inflation because they 
didn't know how many contracts 

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were out there. 
They didn't know they didn't 

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have systems and tools to be 
able to respond. 

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So hopefully companies have 
learned from that and they don't

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have that as a problem, because 
if you do have that as a 

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problem, you probably want to go
back three years and try to fix 

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those things first because 
that's going to be 

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fundamentally, you know, one of 
the big things. 

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But I, if you have that in 
place, so you know how the 

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tariffs are going to hit because
that's nothing more than another

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cost change and you know how 
that's going to affect your 

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transaction base, your products 
and things like that, then 

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you're in a good, good space and
you know your contract situation

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with your customers, then you're
in a good space to kind of 

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determine what you're going to 
do. 

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So it's all about giving 
yourself choices, right? 

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And, and now you'll have more 
choices than before. 

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And for me, when I look at my 
client base and I look at who is

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performing well in this space, 
those are the folks that are 

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asking themselves the question 
of how do I make this situation 

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an advantage for myself? 
Because fundamentally the cost 

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change you're seeing, if you 
don't know anything, you can't 

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do anything or whatever it is 
you, you know, you have to pass 

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that cost all the way through. 
That's that's like rule number 

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one. 
Yeah, you got to pass it 

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through. 
I mean, I don't, I don't know if

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there's too much more magic than
that from the perspective of 

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what you should do. 
But I think where the nuance 

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comes in is how do you use this 
to your advantage? 

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So one of our clients as an 
example, you know, we were 

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coaching them on how to, in 
negotiating big contracts, you 

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know, against a competitor, 
knowing that the competitor has 

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more suppliers in Mexico, Canada
or China where you don't have 

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that level of sort of tie. 
Then that becomes a negotiation 

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weapon for you to use to be able
to close that deal because you 

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can talk to your customer about,
hey, our prices are not going to

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fluctuate like our competitors 
will because of that reliance. 

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That's a subtle change, but it's
a very powerful change to use at

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the right time to be able to, to
make it more of a, a positive 

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for you rather than a negative. 
That's all there, right. 

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So that becomes some of the 
nuances that we deal with on a 

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regular basis now in this 
environment, because the other 

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stuff is easy as far as a 
prices, you know, cost is going 

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up. 
Try to move that through and 

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you're done. 
Understood. 

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And I like your discussion of 
the competitor who might be more

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reliant on China, Canada, 
Mexico, wherever the tariffs are

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coming from versus the company 
that you were working with. 

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That reminds me of the old story
or analogy about the bear in the

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woods. 
You don't necessarily have to 

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outrun the bear. 
You might think about it is what

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if I can outrun the guy in the 
sleeping bag next to me, which 

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is the case that you were just 
talking about. 

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Yes, of course, none of us are 
going to be able to run away 

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from tariffs, but we do have to 
remember if we are in a 

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situation where it is an 
advantage or a disadvantage, 

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then we have to take that into 
account with our strategies. 

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And of course, you start off 
that discussion with something 

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that we always like to remind 
people in terms of when things 

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are very volatile, such as 
hyperinflation, such as when we 

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had the Covic disruptions of a 
few years ago going back to the 

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so-called Great Recession and 
even before that. 

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Keep things simple. 
Remember your strategies, don't 

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panic. 
Remember the value that you 

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provide to your marketplace, to 
your customers. 

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Remember where you are in 
relation to some others and 

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definitely keep it simple. 
Remember things and definitely 

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do not panic. 
We have seen disruptions before,

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we will see them again. 
We will get through them. 

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We will survive and thrive. 
So I like the examples there. 

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So definitely appreciate that. 
And I know from seeing your 

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discussions and reading your 
books that you talk a lot about 

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pricing power. 
But in some ways you discuss 

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pricing power differently than a
lot of other experts. 

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And that is you talk about 
assessing your pricing power by 

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account rather than by product 
or customer segment or geography

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or business unit. 
But really you take a great 

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outside in kind of approach and 
look at this on an account by 

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account basis. 
So what does that shift? 

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And that's a little bit 
different than a lot of people 

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when they talk about pricing 
power. 

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What does that shift and focus 
allow companies that you work 

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with to do differently? 
Yeah. 

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I think in, in times of 
volatility, it's important to 

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understand what API you're going
after because most, most 

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companies, most of my clients, 
they're looking at transactions,

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they're looking at 
profitability, they're looking 

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at revenue, how to manage their 
costs, right. 

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All standard business practice 
basically. 

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And in times of volatility like 
this, we like to add an 

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important element. 
And sometimes this element takes

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on a higher level, higher 
meaning than your profitability 

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metric that you might be using 
on a transaction basis, which is

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customer lifetime value. 
Customer lifetime value. 

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You know, the name of the game 
in volatility is really to be 

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able to look at the 
profitability of your customer 

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over a longer period of time 
rather than this short period 

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right now or that one 
transaction. 

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Because the more volatility 
there is in the market and the 

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more you can develop 
relationships with your customer

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and share in the risk and you 
hunker down together in the 

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trenches to kind of out ride 
this wave that becomes extremely

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important. 
Then all of a sudden you have 

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that relationship and you've got
a longer runway with this 

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customer than ever before. 
So the importance of pricing 

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power and to apply pricing power
to accounts is the sharing of 

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the risk, it's the understanding
of customer lifetime value. 

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And it's to make sure that this 
you look at this as a short term

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period of volatility and change 
rather than, hey, this is, you 

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know, that my price change is 
there and you know, take it or 

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leave it and I'm going to walk 
away from here. 

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I think the more you have these 
extreme notions of, you know, 

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that type of behavior, the more 
disservice you're doing to 

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yourself in the long run. 
The other piece is there's also 

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the other side of the coin. 
You can have that type of a 

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relationship when you know that 
some customers are taking 

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advantage of, you know, there 
isn't that that old principles, 

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that old principle that holds 
true, which is 20% of your 

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customers make up 80% of your 
profit, which means you have a 

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long tail of unprofitable 
customers. 

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So times like this is a great 
time to push a little bit more 

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on that long tail. 
And if some people drop out, 

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it's perfectly OK because 
they're not that profitable for 

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you and they haven't been 
profitable in the long term. 

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So it's a it's a way for you to 
right the ship a little bit 

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also. 
So you have to kind of 

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strategically understand where 
are you in that spectrum of what

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you should do based on account 
by account these types of 

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metrics that you need to look 
at. 

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Very interesting. 
And of course I definitely like 

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the approach of thinking about 
this from a customer lifetime 

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value perspective, being a 
partner looking for the win wins

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there. 
And I like your Pareto example 

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where 20% of your, your accounts
are your customers account for 

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80% of your overall 
profitability. 

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And of course we've all seen the
so-called whale curve where that

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let's say the worst 5% of your 
customer base, it probably has a

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negative number on that, on that
profitability where it kind of 

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00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,520
goes the other way around. 
That's right. 

230
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,640
And of course, these are the X's
in all of our lives that we are 

231
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,560
thrilled when someone else has 
to deal with with those problems

232
00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:57,320
instead of I. 
Haven't used that analogy, but 

233
00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,320
that's a pretty good analogy. 
I might have to use that on 

234
00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,920
Steam. 
I think we have to be careful 

235
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:04,960
with that one and not mention 
specific names. 

236
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,760
So, yeah, we won't mention 
specific names there. 

237
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,920
But of course there are cases. 
And you're right, when we look 

238
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,040
at this by account, there are 
some things where we can find 

239
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,600
those win, win partnerships 
where we can build those 

240
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,600
relationships where when we 
share in the risk, that becomes 

241
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,600
a value proposition in itself. 
I mean that becomes kind of a 

242
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,360
product feature or benefit and 
that goes all the way up the 

243
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,040
ladder to the companies that we 
are dealing with, particularly 

244
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:33,920
in times when we have the 
volatility. 

245
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,840
So I definitely like that 
explanation there. 

246
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:41,120
So I want to ask a little bit 
more about pricing power 

247
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,520
specifically. 
And you know that in the PPS 

248
00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,400
surveys, we always ask people, 
the PPS index, we ask people on 

249
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,440
a scale of one to 10, how much 
pricing power do you think that 

250
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,240
you have? 
In our last survey, it was down 

251
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:59,360
slightly, but it was down a good
bit with our respondents, with 

252
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,280
our members saying we used to be
around A7 as far as on a scale 

253
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,840
of one to 10, but now we're 
looking more like a six or a 6 

254
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,120
1/2. 
So what are some key indicators 

255
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:16,000
that a company has or does not 
have pricing power when looking 

256
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,120
at a particular account? 
Yeah. 

257
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,680
So the way we measure pricing 
power, you know, we, we have 

258
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,480
sort of an out high level view 
and then it gets down to more 

259
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,000
details. 
But at a very high level, we 

260
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,920
have two axis that we measure 
pricing power off. 1 is your 

261
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,720
price differentiation. 
So your product or service, how 

262
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:37,400
differentiated are you in the 
market? 

263
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:44,080
So imagine sort of, you know, a 
company that has highly, highly 

264
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,720
differentiated solution, they'll
be on the far, excuse me, 

265
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,800
they'll be on the far right on 
that axis, the Y axis that go up

266
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,400
and down that axis is your go to
market capability. 

267
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,600
How well can you take your 
product or, and, or service to 

268
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,600
market? 
How well trained are your sales 

269
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,000
folks? 
How well trained is your 

270
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,720
marketing, your product 
development? 

271
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:14,080
Do they use value to prioritize 
features of your product sets? 

272
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,680
You know, how do you really go 
to market and how efficient are 

273
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,600
you then that far right on the 
bottom side of differentiated 

274
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,080
product can go in the upper 
right corner and that is where 

275
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,200
you want to be at from a pricing
power perspective. 

276
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,000
It takes both axes for you to 
have pricing power. 

277
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,720
So that's a very important 
notion to really understand 

278
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,520
because in our history and, and 
Kevin, you, you and I have been 

279
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,760
around long enough to know these
examples, not to take off 

280
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,080
current companies, but old 
companies like Zenith, they were

281
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,560
so advanced from a television 
perspective, right? 

282
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,280
They were in the bottom axis, 
they're on the far right. 

283
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,400
They were like awesome, great 
IP, great TV's, but they were 

284
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,360
really crappy and going to 
market and they didn't last very

285
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,720
long, right? 
And these Japanese manufacturers

286
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,960
came in and they were not so 
great from product 

287
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,320
differentiation, but they knew 
how to execute in the market and

288
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,840
they started eating away at the 
differentiation. 

289
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,680
You can make the case for AT&T, 
they had incredible R&D. 

290
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:20,400
They had incredible knowledge 
of, of voice over IP and other 

291
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,440
things, but they weren't able to
take it to market as fast as 

292
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:24,840
some of the other companies 
were. 

293
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,200
So it it very, very important, 
you know it. 

294
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:29,720
Yes, they're smart people out 
there. 

295
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:30,880
They're great products out 
there. 

296
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,840
There's grow all this 
differentiation that's out 

297
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,640
there, that's awesome, but 
that's not enough. 

298
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,320
You have to know how to go to 
the market. 

299
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:39,920
You have to know how to train 
your customers. 

300
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,040
You have to know how to 
communicate to your customers. 

301
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:43,960
You need to know how to protect 
your price. 

302
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,160
You need to be able to give 
options to the different 

303
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:47,680
customer types that are out 
there. 

304
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,120
You have to understand your 
segment that you're operating 

305
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:51,960
in. 
All of those things become 

306
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,800
extremely important for you to 
actually have pricing power. 

307
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,400
It's not just a feeling, it's 
your actual capabilities on both

308
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,960
of those axes that determine 
your pricing power. 

309
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,480
So for us, when we look at it, 
but from an account by account 

310
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,800
perspective, we look at all of 
those elements. 

311
00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:11,240
We look at what are they buying 
from you? 

312
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,119
How are they buying it? 
What's their usage like, what's 

313
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,079
their sort of long term 
potential with you and what do 

314
00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:19,800
they value from you? 
What are they truly value? 

315
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,839
You know, and, and the old Nagel
Holden way of understanding 

316
00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:27,119
value, which is how do you help 
your customer increase revenue, 

317
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,360
decrease cost or mitigate risk, 
right? 

318
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:31,720
We measure that. 
So it's important to understand 

319
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,640
that by account, but it's also 
important to take that 

320
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,720
understanding of differentiation
and apply it to your go to 

321
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,920
market and what we call a value 
based organization. 

322
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,400
Are you a value based 
organization? 

323
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,960
Do you have your sales folks ask
and talk about value on a 

324
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:51,600
regular basis, not just right 
before a big negotiation of a 

325
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,400
contract, but throughout the 
year? 

326
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,200
Do they talk about it? 
Do they get that information and

327
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,320
do they pass it along to 
customer service, to product 

328
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:00,880
development, all of those 
things? 

329
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,080
Are you truly a value based this
organization? 

330
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,040
Because if you're not, then 
you're not going to go as far on

331
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,320
that Y axis and you're going to 
be stuck in the bottom and 

332
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,880
you're not going to be able to 
get the returns that you know 

333
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,920
you're able to get. 
I see. 

334
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,280
And I know internally for me the
plural of anecdote is not data, 

335
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:25,600
but I always get the sense that 
a lot of I remember companies 

336
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:30,040
that I know pretty well seem to 
have a lot more focus on the 

337
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,480
price differentiation part of 
that than the the go to market 

338
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,560
part of that. 
And you gave a couple of great 

339
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,880
examples there of where people 
were not able to scale, not able

340
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,280
to get their products and goods 
and services where they needed, 

341
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,800
not able to get the support, the
training, the communication that

342
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,800
their customers needed. 
And I know at one of our events 

343
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,920
last year, I did a horrible 
example in my opening address. 

344
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,560
It's probably on the PPS 
website, but don't look it up. 

345
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,720
It was horrible. 
And I took talked about social 

346
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,120
media and about how before 
Facebook, before Myspace, there 

347
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:07,880
was Friendster. 
It was great. 

348
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,960
They invented this thing where 
you connect people, but they 

349
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,080
were not able to go to market. 
They were not able to scale up. 

350
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,680
They grew so quickly that their 
load times became so long that 

351
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,840
even though they had a better 
initial IP than Myspace and 

352
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,160
better than the original 
versions of Facebook and things 

353
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,120
like that, the wait times were 
so big that they could not 

354
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:32,040
present a good product to their 
customers and they evaporated. 

355
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,760
And now they exist basically as 
a gaming forum in the 

356
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,160
Philippines, if I remember 
right. 

357
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:42,800
But there are a lot of great 
examples about that, how the go 

358
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,840
to market capabilities, the 
aligning sales price, 

359
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,360
communication, marketing, 
product teams, all of the above,

360
00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:54,720
particularly when things are 
moving very quickly, how that's 

361
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,120
very important. 
So with that in mind, what are 

362
00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:02,600
some of the most effective ways 
to build the alignment between 

363
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,280
pricing and sales and business 
leaders and product managers and

364
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,800
the supply chain when things are
going crazy to keep everyone 

365
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,040
moving in the same direction? 
Yeah, I think it's a great 

366
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:14,680
question. 
I'm going to pause right here, 

367
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,560
Kevin, because my teams seem to 
have crashed, so I have no 

368
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,280
visibility of you. 
So I. 

369
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,560
Apologize. 
Let me see and. 

370
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,960
Also, Alex, I'm here in the 
office and our Internet is 

371
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,360
spotty and I just had to 
reconnect it, so I might be 

372
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:33,320
disappearing as well. 
OK, Well, yeah, it's going to be

373
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,600
Monday, all day on today, on 
Wednesday. 

374
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:36,480
You. 
You. 

375
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,640
Are you are back by the way, so 
I'm so. 

376
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:41,080
Far. 
Everybody's good on my end. 

377
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:42,800
I've been able to hear and see 
you just fine. 

378
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:44,360
OK, OK. 
Great. 

379
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,840
So Kevin, I think I think that's
a great question. 

380
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,560
And one of the things that you 
know, you and I have had these 

381
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,040
discussions also is pricing is 
so wonderful because it's cross 

382
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,440
functional. 
You know it was horizontal and I

383
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,680
love that about pricing because 
we go cross functional and we 

384
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,760
touch so many other departments,
divisions, people, capabilities,

385
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,720
it's just wonderful. 
It's, it's, that's one of the 

386
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,040
reasons I love pricing so much 
is I'm not bucketed into one 

387
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,560
thing and only one thing. 
My 25 personalities can't handle

388
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:14,840
that. 
I mean, I need all the cross 

389
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,680
functional stuff we could get, 
but it's, it's important to 

390
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,320
understand that pricing is part 
of sales. 

391
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,640
It's an extension of, you know, 
you're, you're a salesperson 

392
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,040
essentially, if you're a pricer,
you're a salesperson. 

393
00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:31,000
So if we have the mentality that
a salesperson is not out to 

394
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,600
undermine my price, but rather 
are we as pricers doing 

395
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,120
everything we can to provide the
tool sets that sales needs to be

396
00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:41,360
successful? 
You know, do they have the 

397
00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:43,440
tiered offering? 
So when they come up against a 

398
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,920
price buyer, they know how to 
take value off the table and 

399
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:51,440
give them the least amount of 
value so they can get down to 

400
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,600
the smallest price for that 
price buyer. 

401
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,480
Do they have that or are you 
allowing them to just kind of 

402
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,760
free Milly, you know, choose 
whatever they want? 

403
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,520
Because if, if somebody just 
gave me all the reins, I'm 

404
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,200
probably not going to make the 
best, best decisions. 

405
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:06,560
If I get some guidance and get 
the right tools, then I am all 

406
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,200
of a sudden better equipped to 
make the right decision. 

407
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,760
So I think there's a big 
question that's out there that 

408
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:17,080
we need to ask ourselves, which 
is for the different types of 

409
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,000
customer engagements that are 
out there, are sales properly 

410
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,560
equipped to handle those types 
of engagements? 

411
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:28,040
And I will tell you, the more 
clients that I see now, I feel 

412
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,840
like pricing, you know, PPS is a
great example of it. 

413
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,040
You've really understood that X 
axis, that differentiation, that

414
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,360
value, price alignment. 
The software companies have done

415
00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:41,240
a great job of, you know, 
Zillion and Vendavo and, and 

416
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,200
price FX and all these guys are 
really understanding, Hey, 

417
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,960
here's your price model. 
Here's you know, how you stick 

418
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:48,520
to your price and, and that's 
great. 

419
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,720
So I think that X axis is, is 
good, relatively speaking, but 

420
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,600
the Y axis, there's tremendous 
amount of gaps. 

421
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,120
There's so many gaps. 
You know, you go to product 

422
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:02,840
development, you know, I go and 
say, oh, how do you know which 

423
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,600
features you need to release? 
And they, and they're like, 

424
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,200
well, you know, it depends on 
who's complaining about what. 

425
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,480
You know, it's, it's this old 
mindset of, you know, the, the 

426
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,240
squeaky wheel gets the priority,
which is really a terrible way 

427
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,120
to do it because it has no 
alignment of value and you don't

428
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:20,920
know if you're going to make up 
the returns for what feature 

429
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,720
you're building. 
And, and so there's a, there's a

430
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,800
lot of gap that's there. 
So I would start with some of 

431
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,040
those foundational things that 
says, you know that customer, 

432
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,000
what are the different types of 
customer engagements do we have 

433
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,520
and is the go to market team 
well prepared to handle those 

434
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,120
engagements? 
Do they have the right tool set?

435
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:43,160
Then after the tool set, I would
have a conversation about 

436
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,400
capabilities. 
So if they if we gave them a 

437
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,080
tiered offering, the second 
question would be do they know 

438
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,800
how to use a tiered offering for
those customer engagements? 

439
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,960
You know, do they have the right
capabilities? 

440
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,520
What can I do to teach them, 
help them of why that tiered 

441
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:02,000
offering exists the way it does?
Definitely. 

442
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,960
And the cross functionality 
element of pricing and revenue 

443
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,800
management, I agree. 
That's one of the things that 

444
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,280
definitely makes it interesting.
And we also had this discussion 

445
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,400
where we have to be artists and 
scientists and change managers 

446
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,880
and all of the above, but we 
also have to talk with all of 

447
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,000
these different groups in a 
language that they can 

448
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,640
understand. 
So for example, the way that we 

449
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,920
deal with a veteran 25 year 
salesperson might be completely 

450
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,880
different than how we deal with 
a brand new top ten MBA who's a 

451
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,160
financial wizard or an 
analytical person or something 

452
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,000
like that. 
You can't approach those two 

453
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,480
individuals in the same way, but
you have to be able to approach 

454
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,640
those two individuals in a way 
that they can understand as 

455
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,600
well. 
And also I like how you start 

456
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,760
with the tool sets to make sure 
that's covered and then you go 

457
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,400
to the capabilities. 
And of course, this is part of 

458
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,440
your book and a lot of the 
things that are one of your main

459
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,680
areas of expertise when we talk 
about negotiating and about how 

460
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,120
we deal with our customers. 
And we can have internal 

461
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:10,680
customers, external customers, 
sideways customers and all of 

462
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,920
the above. 
And also the very, very good 

463
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,680
point that we are all sales 
people as far as ideas and 

464
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,600
getting things across. 
And some of our sales people are

465
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:26,160
pricing people as well when the 
negotiations happen sometimes 

466
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,760
with the customers. 
So there is that great Venn 

467
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,120
diagram overlap. 
And of course, as pricing 

468
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,000
leaders, we have to be connected
with everything, operations as 

469
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,880
well, marketing, product 
management, finance, sales, 

470
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,920
senior management, all of the 
above. 

471
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,960
But yes, we do not have the same
job in every situation on every 

472
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,040
same day. 
It can vary quite a lot. 

473
00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:52,200
And it's our job to be able to 
talk in all of those different 

474
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,360
languages. 
So thank you for the explanation

475
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:55,360
there. 
That's great. 

476
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,800
And we are coming up on time a 
little bit here. 

477
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:04,520
But I do want to ask one more 
question and that is for pricing

478
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,000
professionals who are listening 
today, what's one step that they

479
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,160
can take immediately in their 
offices in their discussions to 

480
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,040
start strengthening their 
pricing power in the face of all

481
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,120
the volatility that we're facing
right now, you know? 

482
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,120
I think I think knowledge is 
power, right? 

483
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,680
And I think one of the one of 
the gaps that we do do see out 

484
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,760
there and I think one of the 
biggest steps is obviously 

485
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,440
internally you have to know and 
understand the impact of changes

486
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,840
from your suppliers. 
You have to know that and how 

487
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,080
that affects your transactional 
price. 

488
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,680
But do you know and understand 
your competitive capabilities? 

489
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,280
Do you understand your 
competitors reliance and their 

490
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,960
cost structure and who they buy 
from? 

491
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,840
And that's where we're seeing a 
lot of gap in that 

492
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,880
understanding. 
There's a lot of hypotheses, but

493
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,960
that understanding is not quite 
there because that understanding

494
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,080
really helps. 
That's the building block. 

495
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,040
You need to be able to know what
strategically what you can 

496
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,600
absorb and what you can't absorb
and what you can move the cost 

497
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,200
through. 
So that understanding of that 

498
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,120
competitor and that competitive 
capability is a gap that I'm 

499
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:22,200
seeing that's out there that's 
preventing you from having all 

500
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,280
the options and choices 
strategically to make decisions 

501
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,800
about your customers. 
And I think that's that's the 

502
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,200
one thing that I would, I would 
encourage everybody to focus 

503
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,720
their attention on. 
Yes, of course, if we only have 

504
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,360
our internal data points, you 
can't really determine trends or

505
00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:42,240
where you are in a product 
matrix or what your customer 

506
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,200
thinks about A versus B versus U
versus someone else in that 

507
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:47,560
regard. 
So that makes perfect sense. 

508
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:48,720
Thank you for the explanation 
there. 

509
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,880
So something that we can all 
work on, we can all kind of get 

510
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,320
more external there. 
Think about our customers, of 

511
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,040
course, as pricers and as as 
revenue managers. 

512
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,600
Game theory should be top of 
mind at all times. 

513
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,960
So it's not just us making the 
best choice, it's us making the 

514
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,000
best choice in conjunction with 
the next move and competitive 

515
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,600
reactions and market reactions 
and macroeconomic reactions and 

516
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,560
everything that goes on there. 
So we have to be a piece of that

517
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,360
puzzle and not be so internal 
and just thinking about 

518
00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:22,000
ourselves and and what we offer 
there. 

519
00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:24,520
A great explanation. 
I like that so much. 

520
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,080
Like you said about the bear, 
you just, you just have to be 

521
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,480
faster. 
You don't have to be the 

522
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,320
fastest. 
Exactly. 

523
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:31,080
That's right. 
Yeah. 

524
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,800
We are not going to be able to 
outrun all of the things that 

525
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,760
are going on from a volatility 
standpoint. 

526
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,960
But we can improve our standing 
from an overall positioning by 

527
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,360
figuring out strengths, 
weaknesses, opportunities and so

528
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,920
on and so forth there and 
working on those where we can. 

529
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,200
So a great explanation there. 
So once again, I want to thank 

530
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,200
everyone too for joining us for 
our podcast today. 

531
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,800
Make sure if you have not 
already done so, but definitely 

532
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,320
do absolutely would give the 
highest recommendation to G's 

533
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,440
book, Pricing with Confidence, 
10 Rules for increasing profits 

534
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,480
and staying ahead of inflation. 
For the several hundred of us 

535
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,120
who are going to be at PPS 
Profitable in Dallas in May, 

536
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,880
make sure to check out Jeet's 
keynote with us on Friday 

537
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,640
morning. 
That would be May 9th, I 

538
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,560
believe. 
So I'm very much looking forward

539
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,800
to that as well and other 
discussions there. 

540
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,240
So, Jeet, thank you so much for 
joining us. 

541
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:33,080
Thanks for the practical 
actionable advice and thanks 

542
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,880
everyone for tuning in to Let's 
Talk pricing Jeep, Thank you so 

543
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,800
much. 
Any follow up words from you? 

544
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:40,920
No, I'm good. 
Thank you very much. 

545
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,080
I really appreciate it. 
All right, we will. 

546
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,760
Look forward to seeing you soon.
And again, thanks to our members

547
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,520
for joining us. 
Make sure to stay tuned for 

548
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,000
upcoming versions of the Let's 
Talk Pricing podcast. 

549
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,560
And I look forward to seeing 
everyone soon. 

550
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,280
Thank you so much, Jeep. 
Thank you. 

551
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:55,960
Take care.