1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,520 Hey, Rob, good to see you, man. How's it going? 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:04,080 Good. How are you? 3 00:00:04,520 --> 00:00:06,400 Doing great. I really enjoyed the 4 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,360 conversation last week with Palash. 5 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,360 Do you have any reflections on on that kind of a week later? 6 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,520 Yeah, it's just really interesting to me. 7 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,800 I, I don't know, I I mean, you, you were there, you had bad 8 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:19,760 Internet, so you could, you couldn't join into into the 9 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:21,760 conversation, which would have made it a lot better. 10 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,720 But but I think the thing that stood out to me, and I don't 11 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:30,600 know how you felt about this, was just how nuanced the 12 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,800 difference was of what he was describing as a big evolution 13 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:40,840 from an A virtual events in webinars platform for B to B 14 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:46,360 marketers to a video content platform for B to B marketers. 15 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:50,560 Right? Those, if you just like squint 16 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,960 at it, you're like, yeah, that's the same thing that it like 17 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,080 literally the same thing. But he described it in a way 18 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:02,840 that it was actually a very significant change in every part 19 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,880 of the business and required a ton of pain and just like 20 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,440 gnashing of teeth to make it work. 21 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:15,080 And I, I think that is actually quite true of like, I think we, 22 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:21,960 I think we underestimate how subtle these things actually 23 00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:24,040 wind up being when they, when they wind up working. 24 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,160 Yeah, that's fascinating and it's and it's hard to know. 25 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,680 I think the way you've said this in the past is you don't know if 26 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,440 you're on your own 2 yard line or if you're on like the 2 yard 27 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,280 line, like about to punch into the end zone. 28 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:41,400 Like in in that case, they using that analogy, it's like Palacio 29 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:46,120 was on the 2 yard line about to get into the end zone, but even 30 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,480 like you're just totally blind about where you are. 31 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,320 And so, you know, it might have been he was trying to convince 32 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,560 an entire organization to change the way that they thought about 33 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,400 serving the customer. And it was a a big lift, a scary 34 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,200 lift for, you know, his employees, his Co founders, 35 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:07,880 probably his investors as well. And yeah, I thought the the he 36 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,360 did a particularly good job of articulating like in the moment, 37 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,240 what is it like to wrestle with that uncertainty and to make 38 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,440 really hard decisions as as a founder? 39 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,520 I did. I did find myself wondering 40 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,360 while I was listening to it, if he would have had your playbook, 41 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,560 how would he have maybe approached some of those things 42 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,160 differently around like he was seeing demand signal, But maybe 43 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,440 if you would have had some of that vocabulary early on, if 44 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,000 that would have like changed some of his tactics. 45 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,680 Yeah, I think by the time actually he made that decision, 46 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,400 he did have some of the like Dominican thinking stuff, which 47 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,280 is which is good. And you know what I'm happy to 48 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:47,960 take credit for, for the acquisition. 49 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,960 He didn't he didn't give me credit, but I'll I'll happy to 50 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,760 happy to take that Polage. No, but but I think that's I 51 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:56,200 think that's right. And the other thing that like 52 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,560 stuck out to me again in that, in that kind of transition, that 53 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:04,080 was really the like thing that made them them really grow and 54 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:09,640 and eventually get acquired, was there are basically infinite 55 00:03:09,640 --> 00:03:13,720 different words that could have been used in both situations. 56 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,560 Like that's the hard part. It's not that like this is a 57 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,040 subtle, it's not just that it's a subtle change. 58 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:24,240 It's that there are infinite different things, sequences of 59 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:29,200 words that could, that all would have sounded logical, but only 60 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:34,000 one or or like a small number of those actually works in 61 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,480 practice. Yeah, that's just. 62 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:37,560 So. Interesting. 63 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,120 Yeah, yeah, totally. I feel like I've been bouncing 64 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,240 lately with my business between things that sound similar but 65 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:50,200 make a huge difference for for responses and and whether it 66 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,400 resonates with people and literally say even using a 67 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:54,440 Sutton. The thing that's been 68 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,560 interesting lately with mine is I've been doing outreach for a 69 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:03,760 campaign where TBS nature coming up and I took words out and 70 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,600 that's what it like. It's literally a subset of the 71 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,960 original words that I was using and that's what helped it click. 72 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,320 You know, it's just. I love that so much too, because 73 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,120 that's the thing that we're going to get into this in a 74 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,000 second that that actually ties really, really well into today's 75 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:23,400 podcast, which is that we often think more words are better 76 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,600 because we think more words gives more opportunity to 77 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,960 convince them that they should, whatever they should buy our 78 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,680 product, they should talk to us. When more words actually give 79 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,640 them more reason, every additional word gives them 80 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:43,280 another reason to object, to say no, for it not to fit, for it 81 00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:48,040 not to be aerodynamic. And so, yeah, that is a constant 82 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,040 thing. And it's, it's this art of 83 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,560 shaping down, cutting down the number of words, number of 84 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:58,120 slides, number of concepts, just to what is essential. 85 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,360 And there's only one way to know what is essential. 86 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:08,840 Yeah, for for me in in that case, I was just, you know, doom 87 00:05:08,840 --> 00:05:14,160 scrolling LinkedIn and somebody had done a post that that was 88 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,840 like I received, you know, something like I received 89 00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:20,600 hundreds of like inbound. Here's the ones that work for 90 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,840 me. And it wasn't actually the 91 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:27,600 content that came after that. It was the reminder that I send 92 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,120 into an inbox that is flooded with other messages and I'm I 93 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,240 might get like one line basically like they there. 94 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:41,400 It has to be so concise that that it it I. 95 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,000 Remember reviewing? Yeah, I remember reviewing your 96 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,120 messages too, where you like the original 1 put PBS nature at 97 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,320 like the very. And like the coolest thing was 98 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,440 like 4 sentences down at the very end. 99 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,360 And it's like, dear Sir or Madam, I hope this message 100 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,240 finds. Yeah, it wasn't exactly that, 101 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,560 but it was. It was like basically that It's 102 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:05,160 like, OK, the cool thing here is this, like, let's not put it at 103 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,720 the very end of the message. Yeah, yeah, totally. 104 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,800 And also the I made another mistake and we'll move on for 105 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,600 this in a second, but it was like, we have three federal 106 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,160 agency partners. One of them really matters. 107 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,320 The other two of them matter much less. 108 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,960 And so instead of being like exhausted, it's just like, just 109 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:24,520 put the one that everybody cares about. 110 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,000 Right, right. It's like saying, yeah, I work 111 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,720 with Andreessen Horowitz and the, you know, Kentucky Farm 112 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,760 Bureau Venture Fund or whatever. Right. 113 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,280 Like it's like nobody just just say Andreessen. 114 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:39,800 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well. 115 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:44,440 OK, let's get into, let's get into today's the sub stack is 116 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,440 called my, my B to B sales call script. 117 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:52,360 And if you are just like putting into the open what I think might 118 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:58,600 be the most most requested and most immediately applicable 119 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,800 resource that you've, you've published, like you've done a 120 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,600 lot of big drops in the past of like here's actually what's 121 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,640 going on, the physics of sales. Like this is what pull is, this 122 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,960 is what demand is what you've, what you've done here is 123 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,440 actually published. Like if you're struggling with 124 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,000 sales, use this script or even like if your sales are going OK, 125 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,080 but you want to make it better and more streamlined, like 126 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,200 here's the script. And having read through the 127 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,080 script, it's not super long. You know, it's like 3 tabs and A 128 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,480 and A and a Google doc will link to it in the, in the show notes 129 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,680 and it's also in the in the sub stack. 130 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,680 But it's, it like really distills. 131 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,320 If, if you've got questions about what do I say, how do I 132 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,320 structure, what's the order? Do I go in? 133 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,200 What are the questions I need to be asking you? 134 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,200 Just give it away. So we're like, Rob, why don't 135 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,560 you tell us a little bit about, you know, why is this on your 136 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,040 mind? Who is this useful for? 137 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,520 And we can go from there. Yeah. 138 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:58,600 So I am honestly sick of of reviewing sales calls done the 139 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,680 traditional way because basically the way we currently 140 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:08,040 approach sales convinces people not to buy from us. 141 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,640 That is the way that we traditionally approach sales. 142 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,920 Now I have written about different parts of this all like 143 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,520 in all the different sub stocks. I was like, all right. 144 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,040 And, and I keep seeing, by the way, I keep having people come 145 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,080 to me saying, I think I'm implementing it. 146 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,160 Can you look at my calls and I'll review their calls and 147 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,600 they're like, not quite they are or they're getting it like 148 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:36,200 backwards as those are like, all right, this is the script that 149 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,799 you should use for a sell. Like there are variables where 150 00:08:39,799 --> 00:08:43,039 you're going to input slides or your own words, but there are 151 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:49,400 not very many variables here. And if this is not working for 152 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:53,680 you, then it is. It's like it's not that it's 153 00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:57,720 your sales execution that is that is going wrong. 154 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:02,640 It is something about who you're selling to or what you're 155 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,360 selling or how you're describing the product, right? 156 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,120 This is what what I'm trying to do here is make your sales 157 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,600 script not be the reason you're not selling. 158 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,680 And so it's for the for the founder who is implementing your 159 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:20,560 approach. Maybe not and, and they're 160 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:24,320 struggling to understand do I do I have a PMF problem? 161 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,400 Do I have a sales execution problem? 162 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,600 Or there's just maybe a part of their call that they're, they're 163 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,640 having a hard time fixing. And the, and like this is the if 164 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,840 if you don't have one-on-one access to Rob, like read this 165 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:42,000 and it's, it's going to be a pretty close distillation to to 166 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,120 the feedback that they would get. 167 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,680 Yeah. And I like the main parts. 168 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,600 The the main error modes on a call are like we have the wrong 169 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:53,240 person here. We don't figure out what their 170 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:58,960 poll is. We don't describe our product in 171 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,160 a way that makes any sense to them or we describe our product. 172 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,520 This is actually quite often in a way that is offensive to them. 173 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,960 And then our demo is just ridiculously confusing. 174 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,680 And then within that in the product description part, 175 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:18,920 there's also the like we try to convince them there's this big 176 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:23,080 problem out there, like ways. It's just the entire theory and 177 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,720 execution of calls today I have seen is is just 178 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,720 counterproductive. And so this is a script that is 179 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,320 minimum viable. It works. 180 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,520 I have seen it work in a bunch of starts. 181 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:42,520 When you implement it it it the the call will feel way better. 182 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,520 It still might not quite work for reasons that can be 183 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,680 debugged, but they are like. It makes those reasons quite 184 00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:50,760 visible to you. Yeah, yeah. 185 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:56,080 The way that you wrote about that early and early in this sub 186 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,320 stack was many startups think about sales backwards, which 187 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,160 causes them to think about startups backwards, which makes 188 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,280 finding product market fit virtually impossible. 189 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,440 What is, can you help me with the connection between they 190 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,240 think about? I think what what you're just 191 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,600 talking about with they think about sales backwards that 192 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,840 you're basically saying they think about I have a product I'm 193 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,440 going to sell to the customer rather than the customer has a 194 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,720 demand that they will look for supply to solve. 195 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:25,920 Is that am I understanding that part correctly or how would you 196 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,640 articulate it? Yeah, it's basically they think 197 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:40,280 that I or my product causes you to buy it when in reality the 198 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:46,360 thing that causes a sale is you trying to accomplish something 199 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,520 on your To Do List but not having good enough options. 200 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:57,240 If you think that you or I, if I think I am going and my product 201 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,120 are going to convince you to buy it, what am I going to do? 202 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,720 Well, I'm going to try to convince you, right? 203 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,160 I'm going to try to show you how awesome our product is. 204 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,360 I'm going to try to convince you that you have a problem. 205 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,560 I'm going to try to write like it's I'm going to push. 206 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,280 And when I am pushing, I'm taking up more and more of the 207 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,760 airtime. I am like like trying. 208 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,960 I'm kind of like trying to twist your arm in all these subtle 209 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:27,240 ways and I'm I'm separating the fat. 210 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,880 Like in my mind I'm separating. OK, I'm building an awesome 211 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,400 product. Now I have to get people to want 212 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,480 it right now I have to convince people to buy it. 213 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,240 I'm separating product and selling as two separate 214 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,240 activities. So this is how you wind up 215 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:49,600 building the wrong product and then being terrible at sales and 216 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:54,280 not getting the feedback loop so that you can actually find 217 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,480 product market fit. It's a philosophy problem. 218 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:01,560 It's a theory problem because it's I believe that I and my 219 00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:03,080 product will convince you to buy. 220 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,600 I believe that's the cause of a purchase. 221 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,240 Yeah, that's super interesting, Rob and it and it leads you to 222 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:14,080 build a very impressive product that nobody actually like needs. 223 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:19,880 And a like so I see all the time these amazing sales decks. 224 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,560 Amazing put put together probably by that like I, I 225 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,360 started kind of like working with companies from 5 to 50 226 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,840 million AR and they hire, they get like these really expensive 227 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,800 consultants to come in and like craft the vision deck, the sales 228 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,240 deck and all this kind of stuff. And it's 50 slides with all 229 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,360 these different things. And the function of the sales 230 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:46,720 deck in a sales call is to convince somebody who is a good 231 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,320 fit that they shouldn't buy the product. 232 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,560 It is, that's how it hit the buyer because it has this 233 00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:58,600 underlying theory. That's like what I'm going to do 234 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,200 is I'm basically going to water board you with all of the the 235 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,960 problems that you actually don't have. 236 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,280 Why our solution is differentiated in ways that 237 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,720 don't matter to you and like it. It just comes at it from the 238 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,640 totally wrong. Ankle, I suspect. 239 00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:17,880 I mean, I've never hired A consultant to build a, a slide 240 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,760 deck like that. I suspect that originates with, 241 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,800 you know, the first conversation with the consultant is tell me 242 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,080 about your product. Tell me about why customers buy, 243 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:29,760 tell me about what you want to communicate. 244 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,960 And you know, and, and the head of sales or whoever it is, is 245 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:38,240 probably leading with, you know, here's it's like a product first 246 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:44,280 vision of like what they are selling rather than a pull first 247 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,000 vision of why the customer is, you know, what they're trying to 248 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,840 accomplish. Yeah, I think, I think that's 249 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,320 entirely right. It's it's just like there's this 250 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,760 missing theory. There's this missing the I think 251 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,640 of it as I've been working on a very long lecture that I'm going 252 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:03,520 to drop at some point on this. But the concept here like a 253 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,920 demand and thinking about like what actually causes people to 254 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,040 buy just like imagine that we are all here, bear with me. 255 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,720 We're all riding on elephants and we don't realize we're 256 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,440 riding on elephants and the elephant's going where the 257 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,760 elephant wants to go. But we think that we are cause 258 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,920 like that we are moving, we are thinking that we are, we are 259 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:25,960 picking the direction and heading in that direction. 260 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,920 And in this case, we're just like we, we're just not seeing 261 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,960 the elephant. It's, it's, and it's the 262 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:37,120 elephant is on its way. And and so when you don't see 263 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,400 the elephant, you're going to come up with a lot of strange 264 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:46,320 theories and a lot of strange approaches to things, to the 265 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,200 world, to your business, to your pitch, to your product. 266 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,080 Yeah, that just will don't make any sense. 267 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,840 Yeah, yeah. The date with Foster Wallace, 268 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,480 like kind of famous thing about how's the water between the two 269 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,000 fishes, but that, yeah, you don't realize you're in the 270 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,160 water. You don't realize the 271 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,760 assumptions that are like underlying the way that you're 272 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:07,880 operating and where you're going. 273 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,000 Well, let's let's do two things real quick. 274 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,840 You outline and, and this post what what causes a purchase and 275 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:17,640 the push theory versus the pull theory. 276 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,800 I think a lot of our, our listener will be already 277 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,400 familiar with that. But why don't we give like the 278 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,080 really quick download and then we'll actually jump into the 279 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,480 into the document and maybe do a quick dive and highly encourage 280 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:31,640 people to vote to be pulling it up as well. 281 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,640 But why don't we, why don't we start with, you've already given 282 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,520 the what, what causes a purchase? 283 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:42,680 Anything you want to add, Rob, on push theory, which is the the 284 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,600 direction the elephant is headed to continue with that versus the 285 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,560 pull theory, the direction that the elephant should be headed if 286 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,440 it were actually going to the Oasis in the desert. 287 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,480 No, no, no, no. That's, that's not how that, 288 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:54,960 that's not how the analogy works. 289 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,400 We'll, we'll hold the elephant analogy for the longer lecture, 290 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,760 but it's, it's basically so the difference is between pull 291 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:07,079 theory and push theory is that push theory assumes that I or my 292 00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:11,240 product cause you to buy. Therefore, what I'm, what 293 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,319 everything I'm doing in sales and product building is to 294 00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:20,040 convince you to buy it. It's to push it to you, right? 295 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,400 And that is, you know, that's everything from if you have 296 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,960 longer than a 32nd description of your product, if you have 297 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,360 longer than a minute or two demo of your product, right, you are 298 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:35,080 showing more things, you are describing it bigger because you 299 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,240 are trying to convince them to buy it. 300 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:45,920 You are pushing pull theory. On the other side hand says the 301 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,960 reason they are buying exists whether or not I exist. 302 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,400 It exists independent of me because it is them trying to 303 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,560 accomplish something on their To Do List but not having good 304 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,960 enough options. Therefore, all I need to do is 305 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,080 show up with something that unblocks them, that unblocks 306 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:05,520 them. That's all it has to do. 307 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,200 Something small that fits, that unblocks them and they will RIP 308 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,480 it out of my hands because they're trying to go somewhere, 309 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,240 but they're blocked. And so the demo, the pitch, 310 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:23,040 everything gets much smaller because all we're trying to do, 311 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,280 we're not convincing them of anything. 312 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,800 They are convinced before they get there. 313 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,440 They are trying to accomplish something and blocked and we 314 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,600 just show up offering something that. 315 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:42,160 Fits. It's crazy how, but I mean, I, 316 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,120 we've spent, you know, 8 months or whatever it is doing these 317 00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:48,600 podcasts and I still need to hear stuff like that. 318 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,360 Like I literally while you're articulating that, I'm thinking 319 00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:52,720 about a meeting I have later this week. 320 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,040 And I'm like, the way I've been thinking about that meeting is 321 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,800 how do I present my product rather than the very obvious 322 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,160 pull that this organization is experiencing. 323 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:08,120 And so if there's any other dingos out there like me, maybe 324 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:10,840 it's, it's helpful. That may a quick, quick recap on 325 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,640 what is for those of us who tend to have the memory of a goldfish 326 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,800 like me. P is for project. 327 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,360 There's a project that the customer is trying to or the the 328 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,440 human being is trying to accomplish in their life. 329 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,000 You is that it's unavoidable or it's something they have to do 330 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,520 right now. L is that there is a list of 331 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,080 options that they have considered or that they are 332 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,600 considering or maybe that they're currently purchased or 333 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:40,040 something like that. And then the second L is that 334 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,640 the there's limitations or that the options are lacking in in 335 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:49,720 some important way before we get into the structure of Rob's B2B 336 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,760 sales script, anything you want to add on on that Rob or just 337 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,040 jump in? Now let's actually sorry, 338 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,600 zooming out, who is this for? This is something that you can 339 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:05,400 implement if you have no customers, have no product. 340 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,680 Because what what this will do is this will help you figure out 341 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:14,240 what they have pull for. And so it works early on. 342 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,000 What, what, what will they buy? I've had plenty of startups do 343 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:23,600 that and sell and grow very fast as a result of starting with 344 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,880 this. But as I mentioned before, this 345 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:31,480 will also help you if you already have a big sales team 346 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,760 and you or you know, small sales team, whatever. 347 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,560 If you already have sale, if you're at millions in AR or 348 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:44,840 whatever and you're finding that your sales calls are a lot of 349 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,120 you talking or your sales reps talking, you're finding that 350 00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:52,760 deals are extending they their long and it's not quite clear 351 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:57,640 what you can do to grow a lot faster. 352 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,480 Yeah. And that might manifest and 353 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,600 like, like you said, you're talking too much. 354 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,440 You're it's taking multiple meetings and you're like, how do 355 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,440 I, how do I shorten this? Maybe there's one thing you've 356 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,120 brought up is like there's customers that weirdly pull very 357 00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:17,080 fast and you're trying to like diagnose the difference between 358 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,280 those. Anything else that would be an 359 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,560 indication. If you can't, if you don't know, 360 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,960 basically within the 1st 10 minutes of the first call 361 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,400 whether with 8090% certainty whether someone is going to buy 362 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,720 or not. You need this. 363 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:34,720 Yeah, that's like, that's a really good litmus test. 364 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,520 All right, let me pull this up real fast. 365 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,280 So, Rob, can you see, can you see that? 366 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,000 So here's the structure of Rob's BSB sales call script. 367 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,760 And again, this this will be linked to in the in the show 368 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,520 notes and in the sub stack. So I encourage you to pull it 369 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,120 out. Rob, why don't, why don't you 370 00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:59,880 give us the overview of the six steps real quick and then we can 371 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:01,160 maybe dive into one or two of them. 372 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,880 Yep, totally. So there's basically two big 373 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,800 parts of a sale call. There's the demand part and 374 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,800 there's the supply part. The demand part is where we 375 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,920 figure out what their pull is. The supply part is where we 376 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,240 offer something that fits their pull. 377 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,520 And if that succeeds, then they pull to either buy it or for 378 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,480 whatever the next step in the sales process looks like. 379 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:27,880 Cool. So those are like the the big 380 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,720 components. What you have to do is you have 381 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,960 to add pieces. You have to add structure around 382 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,320 those big components. So the big components work. 383 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,720 And So what the way I structure a call is, there is an intro. 384 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,520 There's like a way you start the call because if you show up and 385 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,960 just start saying, what are you trying to accomplish on your To 386 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,200 Do List, they think you're interrogating them. 387 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,480 So you need to earn the right to ask discovery questions to learn 388 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,880 from them what their pull is. Once you've figured out what 389 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,800 their poll is, then you need to and so that there's that section 390 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,080 which is discovery, so and driller discovery. 391 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,240 The third section is when you transition from the demand side 392 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,160 of the conversation to the supply side of the conversation, 393 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,000 there needs to be some way for you to kind of say, cool, so 394 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,080 sounds like you're looking for something that will help you do 395 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,600 this without this. Is that right? 396 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,200 OK, great. Let's jump in because right, 397 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,320 like you have to kind of jump from demand language to supply 398 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,440 language. Then in the supply language, we 399 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:33,400 have to describe what we do in a way that makes sense to them 400 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:39,120 with the fewest extraneous concepts possible, because every 401 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:44,760 additional concept or thing we add will confuse them and cause 402 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,280 them to be like, huh, maybe this isn't a fit for me. 403 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:53,040 And so I have two parts of the supply description pitch that 404 00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:56,040 you can think of it as the description of the product, the 405 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,960 concept which comes first. Then there is the, what I call 406 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:03,840 the how, which can be a demo, It can be a visual, it can be a 407 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:05,840 workflow diagram. It doesn't, but it's, it's 408 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,000 basically like, what is the thing? 409 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,760 And then how does it enable them to accomplish what they're 410 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,960 trying to accomplish and overcome the limitations of 411 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:18,520 their other optional what, what is the how? 412 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,640 Give me give me some of the the the depth there. 413 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:24,160 That's the supply side. And then finally there is a 414 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:31,440 transitioning out of supply into like what happens next in 415 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,920 theory, right? Or what what you would expect is 416 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,960 that if they have demand and if our supply fits, then they 417 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,400 either can buy it right away and you schedule an onboarding call 418 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,400 or they have some more questions and want to do a deep dive into 419 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,760 it or right like they're sold. They're like, yeah, this fits. 420 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:55,840 This is kind of what I get this, but I need to bring in somebody 421 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,480 else or we got to talk about pricing or we got to do, I got 422 00:24:58,480 --> 00:24:59,720 to go through procurement, right. 423 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,960 What we've covered here is basically the first call. 424 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,720 There's some variables we can tweak, but but by the end of 425 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,600 this, if you found demand fit and supply fit, they should 426 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,720 roughly want to buy maybe with a couple remaining questions. 427 00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:21,080 And then it's like basically project management from there to 428 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,600 purchase. Yeah, that's interesting. 429 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,880 And and Rob, how do we before we maybe deep dive into intro and 430 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,400 discovery? And then I think the concept and 431 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,840 how distinction that you're pulling apart there would be 432 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,720 good for us to hit briefly, how should people use this like use 433 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,520 this document? Yeah, so I would say make a copy 434 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,680 of it. Do not try to edit the main 435 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,240 dock, do not request edit access for me. 436 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,120 Some people keep doing that as really annoying. 437 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,720 They've got ideas, Rob, that they've got, they've got. 438 00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:00,320 Yeah, I just want to, I just want to adjust production. 439 00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:06,200 And so, yeah, make a copy of this and obviously read through 440 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,840 it and you're going to make a couple of changes to it 441 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,520 yourself. There are places where it's 442 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,040 highlighted of like hey you should make a change here or hey 443 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,640 you should make a slide here. Read through it, maybe practice 444 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,880 it with a Co founder, practice it with another person or just 445 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,920 ship it and like go through this in your next call. 446 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,080 Yeah, yeah, that's how I was thinking about basically just 447 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,280 like I've, I've got most of this in my head at this point, but 448 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,200 having it out being like, OK, do I? 449 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,520 Do I, am I ready to move from discovery into transition? 450 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,440 Have I, you know, answered the the pool components? 451 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:45,520 And yeah, why don't we talk a little bit about intro and 452 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,880 discovery. We've talked about this kind of 453 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,480 like magic first question a couple of times on the intro 454 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,680 part. Why did you decide to either 455 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,080 schedule the call or why did you accept this call? 456 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,480 I'm sure you get a lot of invites. 457 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,480 Anything to add on on that one? I think that I think your 458 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,720 discovery question section is really good, but anything you 459 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,160 want to hit on on intro here? Yeah, on the intro. 460 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,000 So, OK, So what that typically gets you, if you say why did you 461 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,840 decide to take the call today, they will give you a lot of 462 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:15,240 history to say, yeah, so XYZ's happening, right? 463 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,520 And that's that's like useful. And then what I found is if you 464 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,360 add oh, great, that's super helpful. 465 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,160 And then could you maybe tell me what were you hoping to get out 466 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:25,920 of today's call? Like what were you hoping we 467 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,240 would accomplish in today's call? 468 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,760 They will then say like, yeah, so I specifically wanted to 469 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:35,400 understand your service because it we're thinking of it versus 470 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,440 this other. And so they'll often start to 471 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,680 fill out the pull framework for you there. 472 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,760 So I actually have started recommending why did you 473 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,640 schedule the call as question one and then great. 474 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,440 What were you hoping to get out of today's call as an optional 475 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,000 second question to follow? Follow that up. 476 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,480 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 477 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:58,440 Let's hit. So you've got agenda setting, 478 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,480 you know what, what they want and talk through a couple 479 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,120 examples of customer case studies. 480 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,280 And then next steps is that is that just so that they have a 481 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,440 sense for like where the conversation's going? 482 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,560 Yeah. So the structure, so the way to 483 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,560 handle one of these calls, the beginning of a call is to 484 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,600 basically say, hey, what are you hoping to get out of this 485 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:21,080 conversation? And then to say, great, that's 486 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:22,840 exactly what we're going to cover this conversation. 487 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,440 That's what I thought would be the agenda too. 488 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,360 Here's what I was thinking for the agenda. 489 00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:28,680 Does that sound good to you? Great. 490 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,560 OK. What what that basically means 491 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:36,000 is we have agreed together that this is going, this is what the 492 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,840 call is about. This is what's going to happen. 493 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,840 They're going to get what they want to get out of the call. 494 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,240 Yeah, now that we have that, I can put that here and say, OK, 495 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,240 we're going to get to that. Before we get to that that thing 496 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,560 you want, can I ask you some questions to get a little bit 497 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,200 more context? That is what I call earning the 498 00:28:54,200 --> 00:29:00,080 right to discovery because it's like I earned the right to 499 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,680 discovery because I promise you that you were going to get out 500 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,560 of this call what you want to get out of this call. 501 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,960 And I'm putting that kind of like holding that hostage for a 502 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,640 second. I love, I love that the 503 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,000 transition has always been something I felt kind of clunky 504 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,600 at or, or I find that I'm, you know, a couple minutes and I've 505 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,600 been asking a lot of questions and they're starting to get 506 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:26,320 anxious about it. But which can lead them skipping 507 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,240 or like pushing to skip important contextual elements of 508 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,360 pull or like, if you're still pushing on it, it's like a kind 509 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,520 of, it can be kind of like an awkward back and forth. 510 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,680 But I, I hear what you're saying on if you earn the right to it 511 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,800 by demonstrating that you're going to get to what they do. 512 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,360 It's just like, help me to get to the thing that you want to 513 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,600 talk about with this, these foundational elements. 514 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,040 Yeah, yeah. Just help me. 515 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,200 Yeah, help me get context so that that I can be prepared for 516 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,560 that conversation basically. I love it. 517 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,960 Let's talk about the discovery flow chart, which I I found like 518 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,400 really insightful. Rob, what, what can you give us 519 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,240 the maybe the context and the overview of how to how to think 520 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:09,400 about this? Yeah. 521 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,560 So, so first what I want to do is separate in your mind two 522 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,720 things. There's discovery and there is 523 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,480 qualification. Qualification. 524 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,560 You've probably heard of frameworks like Bant Medic, Med 525 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,480 pick. I don't know. 526 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,560 There's probably others that I'm that I'm forgetting now. 527 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,840 What qualification generally does is it says like, are you 528 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,080 buyer qualified to buy our product? 529 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:41,160 Are you worth my time? Those questions are fine to add 530 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,320 in. And those frameworks that I 531 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:48,000 mentioned often have like BAPS, for example, has the N is the 532 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,160 need, right? Like what's what's the need 533 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,000 here? So think of what discovery is 534 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,560 doing is getting the need right. It's like what is their pull? 535 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:05,800 The goal of discovery is to fill out this person's pull framework 536 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,720 and then you can pepper in or anywhere around it. 537 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:14,320 You can pepper in qualification questions just to make sure, 538 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,040 hey, are you actually able to buy this? 539 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:17,280 Do you actually need this right now? 540 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:18,840 Like what? Like those kinds of questions, 541 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,360 but don't mix up the two. Because if you start with just 542 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:27,720 qualification questions, they're going to feel like they're being 543 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,720 interrogated and like, I don't even know what you do yet. 544 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:33,560 What are, what are we doing here? 545 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,400 Right? And So what we're doing in the 546 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,760 discovery section is mostly focusing on filling out the poll 547 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,800 framework. Now the flow chart is, is 548 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:49,360 basically like 3 or 4 lines of defense for you to fill out the 549 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,920 pull frame. Because what I found is that 550 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:57,960 there is not a guaranteed way to get them to give you the pull 551 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,880 framework that like their pull framework in a useful way. 552 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,200 And so ideally, when you say, hey, why'd you take the call? 553 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,320 What are you hoping to get out of it? 554 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,200 They they say something they you know, maybe they say, yeah, we 555 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,000 had just tried this other tool. I saw yours. 556 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,600 It looks simpler. Would love to chat. 557 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,440 Right. In that case, what they've given 558 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:23,160 you is the first L and maybe the second L and then you can come 559 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,800 back and say, OK, cool, tell me more about that. 560 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,560 Help me fill out the LS here and then tell me like, OK, let's 561 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,480 let's fill out the P and EU Like what? 562 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,240 So what are you actually trying to accomplish this and why now? 563 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,200 Like what's the timeline on this, right. 564 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,760 And so ideally that's the case, but often they will say, I don't 565 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,240 know, you reached out to me and then they won't give you 566 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,560 anything particularly useful there. 567 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,240 And so in the case where they haven't given you anything 568 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:56,080 useful, I've given you multiple fall backs, multiple fall back 569 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,160 approaches. The first one is just to ask 570 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,440 kind of a relatively open-ended discovery question. 571 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,600 You can say like, hey, as it relates to blank, what are you 572 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,520 prioritizing? What are you focused on right 573 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,120 now? You can ask that kind of 574 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:11,320 question. You can kind of poke around 575 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,160 there. But if you don't get anything 576 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,880 useful there, then you can jump to like. 577 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,080 What I recommend is having a slide, which is OK. 578 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,000 You've been unhelpful thus far in filling out your own pull 579 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,240 framework, not explaining to me why you are here. 580 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,480 Here's what I'm hearing from other people. 581 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,680 What what other CSO's are trying to accomplish? 582 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,600 What other CTO's are trying to accomplish? 583 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,160 Whenever I talked about does this resonate with you or or 584 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,240 not? Like tell me more why is this 585 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,280 relevant or not relevant to you? And you might get to the end of 586 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,800 that and get nothing. Yeah, at that point you can 587 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,360 either end the call or you can do what I call like Yolo a demo, 588 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,800 like Yolo the supply side of a call because you haven't gotten 589 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,120 anything and just see if anything fires in their brain. 590 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:04,400 So the flow chart is basically the sets the like different 591 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:09,000 tactics that you have if the previous tactic doesn't work to 592 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,280 fill out the pull framework. Yeah. 593 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,639 And it's the slide that you're talking about with the, when I 594 00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:18,800 talk to people in your situation and your or your position, it's, 595 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,239 it's literally the as simple of a slide as our listeners 596 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,000 probably imagining. It's like there's a headline in 597 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,960 like 3 quotes or like something like that. 598 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,360 And how do you know? So I've, I've had two 599 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:36,199 experiences with that, Rob. One of them is something 600 00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:37,920 immediately jumps out to the person. 601 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,760 And the other one is they read it and they say like, yeah, 602 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,600 that's, you know, these are all like, you know, in the familiar. 603 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,960 I I like this sounds, you know, sounds like you really 604 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,639 understand this industry, like whatever. 605 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,440 How do you? What's the difference? 606 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,280 Like how do you know when you've actually found the thing that 607 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,320 you're looking for, like what their pull is versus it's a, you 608 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,920 know, it's not pull, it's just recognition or lip service or 609 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:03,480 something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 610 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,920 So, So on the first tab, I described the difference in what 611 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,680 it feels like between pull and not pull. 612 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:19,200 And the difference is pull is. I am trying to accomplish that 613 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:25,000 right now. Not pull is anything other than 614 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,280 that. And so if you're hearing them 615 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,120 say, oh, wow, this is exactly what the industry needs, wow, 616 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,960 you really get it here. Wow, you are handsome, right? 617 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,120 Like whatever it is, whatever it is. 618 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,440 That's not that that might be pull Rob you just it's a 619 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,160 different. There's a different kind of 620 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:45,960 different flavor of pull. Whenever you hear that, then 621 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,280 it's like, OK, cool, I'm putting a big question mark on the pull 622 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,120 framework and I'm actually going to go back to them and push back 623 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,160 and say, well, that's interesting. 624 00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:59,040 It doesn't actually sound like that's important to you to 625 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,560 accomplish right now. Do I have that right? 626 00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:06,480 Do I have that right Or do I write like? 627 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,280 Is there something else that it that you are trying to 628 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,840 accomplish right now in the in kind of are blocked with? 629 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:18,040 Yeah, yeah. Why don't we jump forward a 630 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,680 little bit to, OK, here's the transition. 631 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,160 Anything you want to add on transition or should we get into 632 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,360 like more of the supply part? Yeah, a really important part of 633 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,440 the transition is to just confirm that you have their 634 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,680 pull, right. So in your mind, you've been 635 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,840 filling out the pull framework. The pull framework is going to 636 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,720 dictate everything that comes after this, and if you have 637 00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:47,680 misinterpreted it, you're going to just pitch something 638 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,040 literally. Yeah, swing and miss, basically. 639 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:55,200 Totally swing and miss. And so I recommend that the call 640 00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:00,040 structure suggest recommends requires you to play it back to 641 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,880 them and get their thumbs up, thumbs down, which allows you to 642 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,880 then transition to the here's the supply it sounds like you're 643 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,280 looking for. Yeah, and the the thumbs up, is 644 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,480 it a passive thumbs up? Is it a, does it have to be like 645 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,840 an Oh my gosh, like or like what is it? 646 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,560 What does it sound like when you like? 647 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,800 How do you know that you really? Yes, that is what I am trying to 648 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,840 accomplish for right now and why my current options are not good 649 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:29,840 enough. That can be said shouting, that 650 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:34,160 can be said weeping, that can be said whispering, but it just has 651 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:39,280 to be. I now like that, that those are 652 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,640 the important things. Yeah, Yeah. 653 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:48,800 OK, let's get into supply. Rob that I, I think that I still 654 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,120 struggle a little bit with the differentiating the concept and 655 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,760 and the how can you give us the good and the bad version, maybe 656 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,800 the bad version and the good version of like introducing 657 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,400 supply starting with the concept. 658 00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:05,160 Yeah. So what most people will do when 659 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,920 they jump into the what I call the supply side, what they don't 660 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,960 think of it as that, they think might think of it as the demo or 661 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,960 whatever is they will literally pull up the product and they 662 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,960 will say, so here's the dashboard. 663 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:26,440 Let me walk you through how this works, right, which is putting 664 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:31,600 the how first. They don't have a way to 665 00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:35,120 understand what The thing is yet. 666 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,960 And so we have to start with the concept because most dashboards 667 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,440 look pretty darn similar. And so it's like, OK, cool, this 668 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,600 seems to be a dashboard. I don't know if I need that part 669 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,720 to it. And so immediate objection. 670 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,400 And most people, by the way, do not want a dashboard. 671 00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:55,640 Nobody has ever wanted a dashboard. 672 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,080 So you're slapping them with probably the least exciting 673 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:04,240 thing without first framing it for them and saying here is what 674 00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:10,240 it is. Now the concept is a mechanistic 675 00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:13,720 translation from the demand side to the supply side. 676 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:21,360 There's basically no, there's almost no wiggle room for you to 677 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:26,320 go off road and say we are the future of agentic workflows, 678 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:27,880 right? No one cares. 679 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:34,240 That's never like and So what happens is first you say, cool, 680 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:39,200 So what we offer is an AI workflow flow platform that 681 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:45,480 unlike just using clawed code or clawed bot or whatever, this 682 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,960 plugs into da da da and does da da, da da differently, right, 683 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,760 which allows you to and it's just a so from that basically 684 00:39:54,760 --> 00:40:00,640 32nd description of the thing they. 685 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:06,640 Understand the what it is in the bounds of it and so that's where 686 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:11,520 we go back to turbopump right which is actually there's really 687 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,840 funny AYC company is literally going to be watching using the 688 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,720 turbopump commercial structure really so. 689 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,920 Very well, we could go. Well, Could totally flop. 690 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:27,960 Could totally did. It turned on a couple weeks ago. 691 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,080 We'll have a week in the notes, but go ahead and run. 692 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,840 And that that basically that post describes the difference 693 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,080 between the concept and the how, right? 694 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:44,360 And so the concept is then saying this is a automatic 695 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:48,280 cordless powered liquid transfer pump. 696 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,840 I think that is actually verbatim from from the 697 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,360 infomercial, which I'm very excited about, which what that 698 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,760 does is that makes you understand what The thing is. 699 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:04,200 Then there's the like how does it fit the pole that you have? 700 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,760 Not how does it how is it architected? 701 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:12,440 Not how do all the pieces work together, It's how does it fit 702 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,400 your pole. So you just click the button and 703 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,320 water transfers from point A to point B, liquid transfers from 704 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,480 point A to point B. Yeah, yeah, fascinating. 705 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:29,840 It's so the, the concept is continuing the conversation, 706 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,920 like 1 criticism you've had in the past is like, you know, you 707 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,960 ask discovery questions and then you basically, you know, 708 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:38,880 experience amnesia. Forget all of those. 709 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:40,880 You say that's great. Here's the product I want to 710 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,320 pitch you. The concept is making sure you 711 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,800 don't do that because it connects back to the pool. 712 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:51,560 And then the how is narrowly defined in the context of the 713 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,000 pool that they are trying to accomplish how it contributes to 714 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:59,000 that specific project. Am I articulating that right, 715 00:41:59,080 --> 00:41:59,800 Rob? Yes. 716 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,240 And what this does as you're identifying is what I'm doing 717 00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:07,520 here is I'm minimizing the surface area on the supply side, 718 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,520 which is doing a service to your potential customers. 719 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,400 Because what we typically want to do in a push world here is we 720 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,680 typically want to explain it as a bigger thing. 721 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,000 We typically want to describe it as a big platform. 722 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,880 We typically wanted to explain all the theory behind the big 723 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,640 platform, why we built it, why didn't it like all of these 724 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,080 things. Then we want to show all of the 725 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,960 capabilities of the platform. Yeah. 726 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:44,280 Which again, makes sense if you think that that's what convinces 727 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,400 people to buy. But that's that. 728 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,760 And which is a push theory, Yeah. 729 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,920 However, when you think, wait a second, this person's showing up 730 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,400 just trying to secure their coding agents. 731 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,560 So maybe I don't need to show them the integrations page. 732 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,000 Maybe I don't need to show them all of these different pieces of 733 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:06,360 it. Maybe I don't need to describe 734 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,520 this as this massive thing. Instead, all I need to say is 735 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,800 this is a way to secure your coding agents in one click, 736 00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:17,640 align to all the different standards, unlike da, da, da, 737 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,960 da, da. And then what do I show them? 738 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,760 Well, I actually want to show them the smallest possible thing 739 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,520 there because if they're just trying to secure their coding 740 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:32,640 agents with no real work for them, with no after work, well, 741 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,280 then what's that need to look like? 742 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:39,280 Oh, that just needs to look like your coding agents are secure 743 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,720 and like it's some check boxes or whatever. 744 00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:43,920 It's not. It's not clear that we need a 745 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:45,800 long demo. Yeah, there. 746 00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:49,520 And so that's what I'm trying. I'm minimizing the surface area 747 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,600 of the concept and the how the pitch in the demo to literally 748 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,400 just be what they want to hear and see. 749 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:03,080 Because if we add any scope outside of that, that often 750 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,480 compounds. It adds questions, it adds 751 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,280 objections, it adds more people who need to be involved, it adds 752 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,400 steps in the sales process. It adds minutes to the demo. 753 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:17,040 It adds and it it like every additional thing that doesn't 754 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,560 fit. Pole reduces your close rate and 755 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,120 breaks everything about your business. 756 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,000 Yeah, yeah. And now Rob, we're going to run 757 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,640 up against time. I love that description of it. 758 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:33,520 Anything you would like to add on the the next step before you 759 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,920 know they get in there? No, so, so next step is an 760 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,920 important thing. At some point I'll probably do 761 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:41,720 something on sales process design. 762 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:43,520 I haven't really done too much on that. 763 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:52,360 If you think that you are pushing, the next step is often 764 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:56,840 let's do a full demo with the whole team, which is a terrible 765 00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,720 idea. If instead if they have demand 766 00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:05,080 in your supply fits and they believe your supply fits, then 767 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,280 all that needs to happen after that is let's build a project 768 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,680 plan to purchase this thing for you to purchase and implement 769 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,280 this thing. Let's execute that plan and 770 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:18,040 let's watch out for reasons why that plan might not work. 771 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,840 And so it becomes project management after this not. 772 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,120 And that's the the kind of like the right way to think about 773 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,160 that stage. Yeah, love it. 774 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,160 Well, I'll look forward to digging into that one in in more 775 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:36,040 detail in the in the future. Any other thoughts, Rob on like, 776 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,120 like I mentioned, I found it highly useful even as somebody 777 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,320 that's super close to all of your thinking to just like go 778 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,640 through this and think through in my sales process, like which 779 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,840 of these am I doing like the right way? 780 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,760 Which parts of my skipping they were like reading through this 781 00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,880 that you've given very specific questions and prompts for people 782 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,520 to use that I think are super helpful. 783 00:45:56,720 --> 00:45:59,720 Anything else you need to add on, you know getting into it? 784 00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,400 Yeah, I think like the reason you're not going to want not 785 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,240 going to use this, right? Like why are people going to 786 00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:09,640 hear this, see this and say, yeah, that's not for me and I'm 787 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,640 going to, I'm just going to try to destroy those real quickly. 788 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,040 One, we have a new category of product. 789 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:15,960 They don't. They won't know until they see 790 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,800 it. It's the dumbest thing on Earth, 791 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:19,880 right? That's the dumbest quote ever. 792 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,280 The category is on the supply side. 793 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,640 They still have to have demand. And if you're like, oh, they're 794 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,400 going to want it when they see it. 795 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,120 That's basically saying my product is going to convince 796 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:38,680 them to buy, which good luck to talk to me in six months. 797 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:46,440 Second is like stuff kind of works now, but we've got maybe a 798 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,440 15% close rate. Yeah, sales cycles are three to 799 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:50,640 six months, but they're pretty big. 800 00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,320 Contract sizes, stuff kind of works now. 801 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,320 What I would suggest is looking through your call. 802 00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:01,000 I just did this with a company. We're looking through your, your 803 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,520 calls where you won and where you lost. 804 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:09,160 And when you look at the calls where you won fill out the pull 805 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:14,360 framework, watching the call over again and what you'll 806 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,680 realize often is that the majority of things that you 807 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:22,960 talked about or did in the call had nothing to do with their 808 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:27,680 poll. They bought despite your sales 809 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,800 pitch and process. Give that a try and report back. 810 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,040 And so those are the 2 main reasons I see people will not 811 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,000 implement this. And still and like, those are 812 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,840 the people who especially need to implement this. 813 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,880 Yeah. And when, when Rob, do founders 814 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,520 work with you or has a sales or whoever, whoever it might be 815 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:51,120 like when, when is that the right option? 816 00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:54,080 So some people reach out when they're like, trying to 817 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,760 implement this, trying to figure this out themselves, right? 818 00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,880 And it's like, hey, yeah, I just like help putting this into 819 00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,320 place, maybe early stage, maybe whatever. 820 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,920 Or people reach out as they're implementing it and they're 821 00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,000 like, hey, I keep running into this objection where I keep 822 00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:13,800 right, like the, the, the light leaves their eyes around this 823 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,480 moment in the call. What's going on here? 824 00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:22,680 And they kind of bring those calls to me and I can very 825 00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:28,520 quickly break what is, as is is breakdown, what's going wrong 826 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,800 and fix it from there and ship a new version. 827 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,440 Yeah. And and that could be early 828 00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,200 stage startups or it could be, as you mentioned, you know, 829 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,280 folks like have millions in, in ARR, they're trying to shorten 830 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,240 sales cycles or, or something like that. 831 00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:43,840 Yeah, yeah. Or it's like, hey, you know, I 832 00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,320 want you to. I've even had people say hey, 833 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:50,480 come, we'll fly you out. Come train my sales team in how 834 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,280 to see see poll and sales calls and how to to like respond based 835 00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,160 on poll. Yeah, that's cool. 836 00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,960 That's cool. Well, Rob, why don't we? 837 00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,160 Why don't we wrap any anything else on your mind? 838 00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:12,360 Be like get ready because I am I am working on a a big, big 839 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,880 lecture that I think it's going to be sick. 840 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,880 So just prepare yourself. Well, if our if our listener 841 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,720 made it this far, they're. They're, I also had two, I had 842 00:49:21,720 --> 00:49:24,800 two people reach out this week claiming to be our listener. 843 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,680 And so I, I have gone back and I think one of them is 1. 844 00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:33,720 And so I have to go figure out. Who it is otherwise, that 100% 845 00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:37,360 audience growth. All right, well, hey, cool. 846 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:39,800 Thanks, Rob. We'll catch you next week and 847 00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:40,760 see you everybody.