1
00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:02,080
Hey, Rob, welcome back man. 
How you doing? 

2
00:00:02,760 --> 00:00:04,640
Good, good, good. 
It snowed yesterday. 

3
00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,680
I hate everything. 
No snow here in Mexico City. 

4
00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:10,960
It started, we're entering the 
six week period in which it 

5
00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,000
becomes intolerably hot, but 
eventually it'll just start 

6
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,320
raining. 
But anything, anything new going

7
00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,240
on or we do we want to jump into
QuickBooks and causes and 

8
00:00:21,240 --> 00:00:22,800
benefits. 
Yeah, let's. 

9
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:24,760
I can't think of anything, so 
let's jump in. 

10
00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,400
OK, cool. 
Well, this week we're talking 

11
00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,640
about your sub stack, cause 
versus benefit, the difference 

12
00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,000
and why it matters. 
We're going with a simple and 

13
00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,880
direct approach to this cars and
I think incredibly practical. 

14
00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,880
We'll jump into an example from 
QuickBooks here in a moment, but

15
00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,320
why don't we start with you know
who? 

16
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,440
Why is this on your mind and 
who's this one for? 

17
00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:51,440
Yeah. 
So, so this one, I've actually 

18
00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,280
had a lot of start-ups coming to
me recently who've gone through 

19
00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,080
like product positioning 
exercises and come out with 

20
00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:03,760
something that is logical and 
doesn't work and not they're not

21
00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,440
sure why because it makes so 
much sense. 

22
00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:10,000
And so I've been struggling to 
articulate this and articulate 

23
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,560
the difference between there's 
good product positioning 

24
00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,920
exercises, which you, you see 
from product marketing people. 

25
00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,680
And there's sometimes there's 
really bad versions of it and 

26
00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,200
they're really bad because they 
sound like they should work and 

27
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,840
they make a lot of sense in the 
words seem smooth as a result of

28
00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,200
them and they just don't work. 
And so I've been racking my 

29
00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,240
brain as to how do I articulate 
the difference here. 

30
00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:37,440
And so the cause verse benefit 
angle I think is a useful frame 

31
00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:38,560
on this. 
Yeah. 

32
00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,440
You know, when I was reading 
this post, I was thinking about 

33
00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,360
all the, you know, things that 
you might see on LinkedIn or 

34
00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,400
that we've seen on Twitter or X 
over the, you know, over the 

35
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,120
months and years that are like, 
I only fund businesses that 

36
00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,480
solve a revenue problem or I 
only fund businesses with a 10X 

37
00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,760
ROI or, you know, you know, 
whatever that finishes. 

38
00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:04,280
And I and I, I think what you're
doing here is saying like, OK, 

39
00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:09,800
ex post afterward, you can 
identify that some businesses 

40
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,160
that took off had that benefit. 
However, what we want is, you 

41
00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,400
know, I'm just being a, you 
know, a broken record for things

42
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,720
that you talk about. 
But what we want is day zero 

43
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,680
before you have taken off, 
understand what is the thing 

44
00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,080
that will cause, you know, 
'cause the start up to take off 

45
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:32,520
and and really like shedding 
away all of the other confusing 

46
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,440
things. 
Why don't we Rob I, I'm going to

47
00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,680
start with like what you wrote 
about this and then I want to 

48
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,080
jump straight into jump straight
into the QuickBooks, QuickBooks 

49
00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:44,960
example because it makes it 
highly practical. 

50
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,720
You wrote at the start when 
anybody buys anything, they buy 

51
00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,880
the, they buy the thing because 
they are in a specific kind of 

52
00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,640
stuck situation. 
They're trying to do something, 

53
00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:58,160
but they are blocked from doing 
it by their existing tools, 

54
00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,600
methods, options, etcetera. 
Given this, they are looking for

55
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,520
a thing that unblocks them. 
This is what causes a purchase 

56
00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,840
and it tells us exactly how to 
describe our product and its 

57
00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,200
value. 
It's very simple, but when 

58
00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,760
someone buys something, they 
also get a bunch of other 

59
00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:19,920
benefits like value ROI from it.
They may use a variety of 

60
00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:22,640
different features, all of which
provide an array of different 

61
00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:25,440
benefits. 
After they buy, they explain 

62
00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,520
that they what they like about 
the product based on these post 

63
00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,880
hoc benefits they received after
they purchase it. 

64
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,320
And then I, I think that's kind 
of the the crux of it. 

65
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,360
Is there anything you want to 
add here on top of that or do we

66
00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,480
want to jump into the example? 
Yeah, I think, I think let's 

67
00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,040
jump into the example because it
makes it a little bit clearer, 

68
00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:49,600
because the challenge is always,
how do I make my startup take 

69
00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,200
off? 
I have to say some words to some

70
00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:59,040
person and show them something 
that causes them that like fits 

71
00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,600
with something that's happening 
in their brain that causes them 

72
00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,320
to RIP it out of our hands when 
that is not the default state. 

73
00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,160
Usually the majority of words 
and concepts and visuals they 

74
00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:15,160
see just default state. 
They just kind of go on by it 

75
00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,959
just passes through and they 
keep doing what they were doing 

76
00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:20,440
otherwise. 
And so we need some sort of a 

77
00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:25,120
model for what sticks and what 
situation does something stick 

78
00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,880
that helps us know what to say 
and and why people buy. 

79
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,360
And so the example I want to go 
to here of, of why this gets 

80
00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:38,440
super confusing is an example 
that I was talking with Bob B 

81
00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:44,240
Moesta, you know, goes by Bobby,
which I assume we're both named 

82
00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,120
Rob or Robert. 
I've changed my name like 40 

83
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,080
times. 
I don't know if you have. 

84
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,600
Well, I went to RC because it 
was getting too conf. 

85
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,800
What was happening was it was 
too confusing when we were both 

86
00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,680
responding to emails as Robert, 
Robert, everybody was like what 

87
00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,840
is going on anyway? 
So Bobby, Bobby and Moesta I. 

88
00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,000
So I went. 
I went by Robbie for my entire 

89
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,880
life until my first Kinsey 
interview and they said you're 

90
00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,840
not Robbie anymore, you're Rob. 
And so that's why I'm Rob now. 

91
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:17,280
Rant random aside, I had a beard
when I was at Bane, you know, as

92
00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:20,520
a 23 year old analyst because 
they told me it it looked, I 

93
00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,920
looked older and they were like,
this is not about you Robert. 

94
00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:24,840
Like you have to show up with a 
beard. 

95
00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:30,280
Not really proud of that. 
But yeah, shows you the strong 

96
00:05:30,280 --> 00:05:32,920
character I bought anyways. 
So Bobby Moesta. 

97
00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:33,880
Yeah. 
So, OK. 

98
00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,400
So Bobby Moesta, I was talking 
with him and, and he was telling

99
00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,560
me the story about when he 
helped QuickBooks out. 

100
00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,480
So I don't know if you know 
QuickBooks, but it's like 

101
00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,480
accounting software that 
basically does a ton of things 

102
00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,320
and it's kind of always done a 
ton of things. 

103
00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,080
And so the question is like, how
do you get people to buy them? 

104
00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,040
Or how do why do, why do people 
buy QuickBooks? 

105
00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,280
And so the traditional way that 
we're taught to think about 

106
00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:06,760
describing a tool like 
QuickBooks is from the supply 

107
00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:08,720
side. 
It's, it's basically it starts 

108
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,240
with what is the product do, 
what are all the pieces of it? 

109
00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,800
And then you might ask a 
question of like what's 

110
00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,600
differentiated about it versus 
the alternative? 

111
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,760
What differentiated value, what 
unique value does it provide 

112
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,840
versus the alternatives? 
And from that you say, OK, then 

113
00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:32,680
who cares a lot about those 
differentiated benefits values 

114
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,800
And therefore what do we, how do
we describe that's coming from 

115
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,600
the supply side? 
And so if you do that exercise 

116
00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,480
with QuickBooks, it's probably 
there's a bunch of different 

117
00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,680
things you could come up with, 
but it's something about it 

118
00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,520
being this all in one platform 
for small businesses that can do

119
00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:54,080
everything right. 
And that that's what makes sense

120
00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,840
from the supply side. 
Bobby told the story though, 

121
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:05,080
that whenever anyone bought 
QuickBooks, though, there was 

122
00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:10,080
only one cause of them buying, 
which was basically I need to 

123
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:16,400
send or receive money. 
And so if you describe 

124
00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,200
QuickBooks in the way that it is
an all in one accounting and da 

125
00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,280
da, da, da da software in that 
situation and you advertise it 

126
00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,560
that way, they're not going to 
buy it. 

127
00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,080
You're going to have a super 
compelling, logical way to 

128
00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,040
understand, to like describe 
your product that is 

129
00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:39,040
differentiated, that has very 
tight messaging and it's just 

130
00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:43,840
going to, yeah, wash on buy. 
And so instead, and you can see 

131
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,560
the still today on Quickbooks's 
website that there's like AI 

132
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:48,720
didn't even cut out this 
section. 

133
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,760
But like the key things they 
highlight is you can send money 

134
00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,480
or you can receive money, get 
paid, whatever, right? 

135
00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,560
And that's how you get people 
in. 

136
00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,840
And then after they are in, they
run into a bunch of other things

137
00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,480
that the product also enables 
them to do. 

138
00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:10,520
But we can't conflate the cause 
of them buying with all the 

139
00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,560
other things the product does 
and all the other benefits they 

140
00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:15,520
get out of it. 
Because if you look at it from 

141
00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:20,400
that, from that view, you're 
going to wind up with a 

142
00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:24,600
description of a product that 
does not work, that does not 

143
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,640
cause you to take off. 
Yeah. 

144
00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,880
And so it feels like there's two
things going, going on here. 1 

145
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,880
is we make that often make the 
mistake of a supply side start 

146
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:35,320
like this is what our product 
does. 

147
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:40,120
And 2nd is that irrespective of 
what your product does, you 

148
00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,960
describe things that are not 
causal and what they, what is 

149
00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:48,160
going to lead them to purchase. 
So even if you weren't, even if 

150
00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,160
you weren't taking a supply side
approach and you were talking 

151
00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,880
about the demand side, you 
could, the QuickBooks could 

152
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,160
still describe the many things 
that they do and overwhelm the 

153
00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,600
customer, the potential customer
with with that. 

154
00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:02,680
Yeah. 
And like I was another example 

155
00:09:02,680 --> 00:09:06,760
of this is I was listening to a 
startups recorded sales call and

156
00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:10,040
the customer, the potential 
customer bought superfast. 

157
00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,920
They described probably 14 
different benefits of the 

158
00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:20,800
product. 
It'll save our team time. 

159
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,880
It'll enable us to scale without
hiring further. 

160
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:28,840
It will dot it at it like all 
these different benefits, but 

161
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:34,880
those benefits are not 
necessarily the cause of them 

162
00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:40,240
purchasing. 
There are so many benefits that 

163
00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:46,040
every business so much value, so
many high ROI opportunities that

164
00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:50,160
every business has available to 
it at any one point in time that

165
00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,400
they are not actively 
prioritizing. 

166
00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:59,680
And so we have to focus on the 
situation when somebody is 

167
00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:03,800
trying to accomplish something 
but blocked because it's the 

168
00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:10,200
only cause of a purchase. 
This actually reminds me of like

169
00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,880
payroll when I was starting my 
business and I had no idea how 

170
00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,000
you start a business. 
And I was trying to figure out 

171
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,440
payroll and I was the only, 
really the only thing I was 

172
00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,680
worried about was the business 
eventually getting shut down 

173
00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:24,640
because of non compliance with 
some tax regulation. 

174
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,880
And I, I kept asking, you know, 
I kept reaching out to these 

175
00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,680
like payroll and HR providers 
and they were, I was over like 

176
00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:34,720
just overwhelmed by everything 
that they were, they were 

177
00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,920
demoing and everything. 
And eventually I just like sort 

178
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,640
of figured it out and was like, 
OK, this I, I think I can do 

179
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:42,400
this. 
But if they, if somebody early 

180
00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,480
on would have come to me and 
said like, look, if you're 

181
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,320
starting a small business like 
these are the two things you're 

182
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,440
worried about, I would have 
bought like immediately because 

183
00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,880
it would have taken that, you 
know, taken that concern. 

184
00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:54,240
Yeah. 
And like at that situation, it's

185
00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:59,080
basically I need to pay my 
employees in a way that's 

186
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:00,440
compliant. 
Yeah. 

187
00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:02,400
That's like, that's literally 
it. 

188
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,040
And if they said that, cool, 
that's how you get in and then 

189
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,040
you run into other things once 
you're in there, but you can't. 

190
00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,840
But what they're doing is 
they're conflating the fact 

191
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:16,600
that, Oh well, we have a all in 
one payroll IT da da da da the 

192
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,040
platform. 
And so therefore, we need to 

193
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,600
tell you all about it and tell 
you why it's different. 

194
00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:24,720
Yeah. 
And you're there just like, 

195
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,680
listen, I'm literally just 
trying to send. 

196
00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,680
Money to exactly, Yeah, yeah, 
exactly. 

197
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,600
Cool. 
There's a couple implications 

198
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,520
that you highlight in this one. 
We've we've touched on these, 

199
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,400
but just to just to see if 
there's things you want to add 

200
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,960
here. 1 is it makes it very 
difficult for us to describe our

201
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,880
product. 
And then 2 is when we describe 

202
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,280
our product based on benefits, 
it doesn't work very well in 

203
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,200
practice. 
Anything additionally you want 

204
00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,400
to add to to those rub? 
Yeah. 

205
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:59,600
So, so it actually is like a 
super complex thing to try to do

206
00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:04,760
if you try to go come from the 
supply side because there are so

207
00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:06,880
many different angles that you 
could look at. 

208
00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,160
Oh, it could save time. 
It could do that a bit like it 

209
00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,480
has all these different 
features, we can combine them in

210
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,360
different ways. 
And so that's like really, 

211
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,680
really, really difficult to do. 
And then at the end of it, after

212
00:12:18,680 --> 00:12:24,160
you've done this mentally 
grueling work to come up with 

213
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,480
something, you show it to 
customers. 

214
00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,760
And, and here's the worst part 
is they understand it. 

215
00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:35,000
They understand it. 
They will nod their head, 

216
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:36,880
they'll say, wow, that makes 
total sense. 

217
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:38,920
I totally get it. 
And guess what? 

218
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,640
They're not buying. 
Yeah, because why would they, 

219
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:45,240
right. 
Like the way that you were 

220
00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,480
describing your product does it.
And you might, it's like, here's

221
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,880
the hard part is that you might 
then like QuickBooks might say, 

222
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:56,080
oh, the all in one, right? 
Like accounting da da, da, da, 

223
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,320
da platform. 
And then they could work from 

224
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:03,680
there to problems and pain 
points from that perspective, 

225
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,480
which they will come up with 
problems and pain points that 

226
00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:12,000
people have and don't act on. 
Yeah. 

227
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,280
And so they'll come up with it's
frustrating to manage things 

228
00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:17,560
across a bunch of different 
tools. 

229
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,880
It certainly is. 
It certainly is. 

230
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,560
Isn't it painful logging in and 
logging out and and having to 

231
00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:26,680
copy paste things? 
Oh, it's the worst. 

232
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,680
Yeah. 
We offer an all in one solution.

233
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:35,760
It's like, OK, cool, great, 
thanks for I just need to get 

234
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,200
paid. 
And so I'm going to go and find 

235
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,840
some way to get paid, right? 
Like that's and, and and like 

236
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,280
that's what winds up happening 
as a result of this. 

237
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:49,400
And so the the end result of all
of this is we wind up doing a 

238
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,640
ton of work, a ton of mental 
exercises, mental gymnastics to 

239
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,400
come up with something and 
become two ships passing in the 

240
00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,160
night with our potential 
customers. 

241
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,960
Yeah, yeah. 
Having having wasted more of my 

242
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,360
life than I care to own up to 
creating slides that immediately

243
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,320
like disappear because I took 
the wrong approach here. 

244
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:10,400
I can. 
I can vouch for that. 

245
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,680
Rob, how do you how do you find 
that causal element? 

246
00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:18,120
Let's say, you know, a founder 
listening is is thinking, OK, 

247
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,040
like I've been talking about 
benefits. 

248
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,600
I see that I'm done. 
You know that that's the wrong 

249
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,680
approach. 
How would you? 

250
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,080
How do you advise founders that 
are like, OK, how do I actually 

251
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:31,160
find the causal thing? 
Yes, it's going to depend on 

252
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:35,520
what stage your business is at. 
If you're a bit, if you like a 

253
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,040
bunch of people who've reached 
out to me recently read millions

254
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,520
in revenue and you've grown kind
of fast, but it's kind it's like

255
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:44,760
not soup. 
Some people buy fast, some 

256
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,120
people buy slow. 
It is in the people who buy 

257
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:52,960
fast, especially if they come 
back, they ghost you for six 

258
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:57,880
months, come back and buy fast. 
You figure what changed, what 

259
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,600
came on to your to do what? 
What about your situation 

260
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,480
changed that caused you to try 
to do something but but you were

261
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,680
blocked from accomplishing it 
from your existing options, 

262
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,440
right? 
Like it's, it's really, really 

263
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,760
helpful to go back and look at 
your existing customers way 

264
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,400
easier if you have existing 
customers and some of them have 

265
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:17,560
bought fast, some of them 
haven't. 

266
00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:24,200
Other than that, if you are in a
situation where you are trying 

267
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,520
to figure out what people want, 
first of all, get off the supply

268
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,440
side. 
Just stop thinking about 

269
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:35,560
products and just focus on 
situations where people are 

270
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,040
trying to accomplish something 
and blocked. 

271
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:43,880
And you can see that by going 
and watching them do their do 

272
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,520
their job, doing their job 
alongside them or asking the 

273
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,880
question, what would you pay me 
to solve for you? 

274
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:53,680
What would you pay me to take 
off in 3rd plate? 

275
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,920
And what they'll tell you there 
is or you know, what are you 

276
00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,320
trying to buy right now? 
You can even, look, I got a 

277
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:00,680
message from a founder this 
morning. 

278
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,880
He was like, yeah, I just 
started asking that question in 

279
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:04,760
sales calls and it got way 
clearer. 

280
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:06,920
And I sold something and it's 
like, yeah, great. 

281
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,640
And because what they'll say is,
yeah, I'm trying to buy 

282
00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,960
something that's going to, or 
I'm going to try to, I'm trying 

283
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,960
to buy this kind of product and 
they give you some sort of 

284
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,480
supply side mess. 
I'm trying to buy an AI agent 

285
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,120
for da, da, da, da. 
OK, cool. 

286
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,560
I don't know what that means. 
So maybe let's jump to the 

287
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,800
demand side. 
I know you're trying to buy 

288
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,840
something here. 
Jump to the demand side. 

289
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,080
Explain to me what you're hoping
to accomplish, why you can't do 

290
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,400
this with your existing tools 
and solutions. 

291
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,280
And like, OK, based on that, can
I sell you this? 

292
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:42,240
Yeah, yeah, the IT, it feels 
like a couple targeted 

293
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,320
questions, but it's it's not 
inaccessible. 

294
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,280
It's just like the way that you 
approach the conversation 

295
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,920
frequently unlocks it. 
I like your point on when they 

296
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,640
when they buy fast figure out 
why. 

297
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,120
Like that's the the gym is in 
there frequently. 

298
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,360
They won't even tell you though 
like if you don't ask like. 

299
00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,600
Or they will. 
Or what they will say are things

300
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,440
that are benefits, they're not 
causes. 

301
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:08,880
And you can get wrapped on 
around, act like what we're 

302
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,640
looking for is not something 
that's in the product. 

303
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,880
We're looking for something 
that's in their world. 

304
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,119
So how does that conversation 
look like? 

305
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,720
What let's say they say like, 
well, we, we looked at a couple 

306
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,200
competitors and you all's, you 
know, we, we liked your 

307
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,200
interface more than somebody 
else. 

308
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,400
Or you know, something like what
if they get, they give you a, 

309
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,720
they, you ask why they buy, they
give you a supply response. 

310
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:33,880
How do you interrogate that? 
Yeah. 

311
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:38,040
So, so in that case, it's like, 
cool, let's maybe zoom out from 

312
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:39,760
the competitors, the the 
products. 

313
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,600
Why did you like tell me about 
when you prioritize this, when 

314
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,040
you decided that we need to 
start looking into these 

315
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,200
options? 
What was happening in your world

316
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,280
outside of the products? 
Yeah. 

317
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,320
What changed? 
And right, so and of another 

318
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,880
type of customer that buys, 
which is the one that goes to 

319
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,240
for six months and then shows up
and buys in a week or in three 

320
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,120
days or something like that one,
it's typical. 

321
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,560
It seems very clear, like they 
know what was going on and they 

322
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:10,600
can specifically pinpoint it 
frequently. 

323
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,480
Yeah, yeah. 
And they, and even then they 

324
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,840
might say, OK, like I got 
approval to work on this 

325
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,680
internally, right, which is not 
helpful. 

326
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,600
And you have to like zoom out 
from from that kind of like very

327
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,160
narrow thing to be like, OK, but
why was this the relevant thing 

328
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:28,640
internally? 
What was happening? 

329
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,920
Yeah, I love it. 
Well, Rob, let's let's wrap up 

330
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,360
this bite sized episode. 
Any anything else you want to 

331
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:42,960
add here before we wrap? 
The framework is simple, trying 

332
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,240
to accomplish X but blocked 
because of Y. 

333
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,680
This It might feel like a 
straight jacket, but it is for 

334
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,240
our own gun that it is a 
straight jacket. 

335
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,720
I love it. 
Yeah, I've got, I've got some 

336
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,600
messages that I'm going to be 
thinking about that with later, 

337
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,040
later today. 
You also have your next boot 

338
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,560
camp that we're calling it 
physics of sales boot camp. 

339
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,000
Is that is that right? 
We're calling it the next Boot 

340
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,680
Camp. 
Yeah, the the artist formerly 

341
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,440
known as known as PMF Camp, 
whatever it might be coming up 

342
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:21,400
on May 4th still have still have
slots with that if I'm not 

343
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,640
mistaken. 
So links will be in the in the 

344
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,360
show description with that, Rob,
if there's not anything else, we

345
00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:30,520
can let folks go. 
Let's do it. 

346
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:31,360
All right.