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Lisa, thank you for coming onto 
the podcast. 

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I'm so glad that you took me up 
on my offer. 

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I wanted to get you on here 
because I wanted more people to 

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understand what's involved when 
it comes to fostering. 

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So and just hear your story. 
So actually I just realised my 

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windows open and I can hear 
aeroplanes because the Sun's 

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out. 
So bear with me. 

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I don't know if you could hear 
that. 

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No, I do not. 
Oh my God, she's just looking at

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me. 
She's just like. 

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How's it going? 
Yeah, really good, Really good. 

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When I went to go pick Doona up,
she was really scared. 

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She was really weary. 
She was very nervous. 

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She was shaking. 
And then that night she snuggled

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with me, which I thought was 
very strange because she seemed 

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really nervous up until that 
point. 

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And then for the first three 
days it was touch and go with 

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going to the toilet because she 
wouldn't do it outside even 

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though we had gone for walks 345
times. 

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So thankfully I have dog 
friendly carpets that are 

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bleachable and I bought one of 
those spot and stain removing 

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Hoover thingies, so and the anti
mark spray and all that kind of 

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stuff. 
But yeah, I think I, I just had 

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to be consistent with her to, to
let her know there will be 

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opportunities, regular 
opportunities. 

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You don't need to go inside. 
And I really, really did my best

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and I think I've achieved that. 
But I'm not shouting at her or 

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raising my voice or anything. 
If it happened, it happened. 

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And yeah. 
Sometimes it takes a while. 

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I mean, it's a whole new 
routine, new house, new smells, 

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you know, they have a lot of 
anxiety. 

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They don't know where to go or 
when they're going to get an 

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opportunity to go. 
So some dogs get it quicker than

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others. 
I think persevere and be 

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patient. 
Well. 

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Yeah, no, it paid off because 
Day 3-4, now I know she's 

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regular in the morning. 
She does 1:00 and 2:00 in the 

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morning, and then in the evening
she does another one and two 

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actually does it. 
She does a couple of wheeze in 

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the evening, but after that she 
doesn't want to do anything. 

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She is just permanently 
sleeping. 

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Because she's catching up, just 
just feeling relaxed and just, 

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you know, now she has the 
opportunity, she feels safe and 

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she's just catching up. 
Or you think she's just a very 

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chilled dog. 
I don't know. 

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I've read that it's common for 
greyhounds to sleep about 1816 

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or 18 hours a day. 
I do worry though that she's 

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unstimulated, although I don't 
know how much stimulation she 

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needs so I try because she's 
very food motivated. 

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I try to give her treats that 
are wrapped up in a puzzle. 

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So whether it's an Amazon box or
a package or, you know, what 

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else have I used? 
I've got a couple of treats, 

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snuffle mats, sort of hide 
things. 

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I put them in her, but she gets 
frustrated really quickly. 

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She just gives up really 
quickly. 

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She's just like, no, I haven't 
got time for this shit. 

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I generally think they don't 
actually need a great deal of 

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mental stimulation. 
I mean, mine, yeah. 

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I mean, that's kind of why I I 
like the breed, because they go 

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for a walk and they sleep. 
It's not like an Alsatian, you 

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know, I don't need to do dog 
ability or you know, give them 

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puzzles to keep them 
entertained. 

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They're like run sleep, run 
sleep. 

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That's kind of it, yeah. 
It's a strange because it feels 

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counter, you know, Like is that 
all there is, you know? 

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That probably is all there is. 
I wouldn't worry about it. 

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The only thing mine do I think I
may have mentioned it is like 

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they love antlers. 
You know the. 

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Yes, the antlers, of course, you
did mention this. 

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Hold on, I'm going to make an 
the. 

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Only kind of additional 
stimulation they get is that 

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they they all bizarrely about 
sort of six, 7:00 in the 

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evening, get an antler, get in 
their beds and like shoe. 

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OK, well that might satisfy 
them. 

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What I have been doing is taking
her for walks around, fairing on

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a long lead. 
And she really enjoys that 

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because she gets to stretch her 
legs. 

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And I honestly, I do my very 
best to keep up with her. 

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But there gets to a point where 
she's just like, you know, she's

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like a gazelle or like a horse 
where she's just probably 

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stretching her legs. 
And I'm like like behind her 

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trying to hold on to her. 
But she, she goes so fast. 

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And then there's a point where 
the line obviously is no longer 

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slack and I don't want to hurt 
her. 

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So I'm, I'm like, Oh my God, 
we're going to have to trot. 

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We're going to have to canter 
through this. 

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But I'm going to book a enclosed
field for her so that I can do 

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get her to just run free because
that must be so satisfying. 

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. 
They love that. 

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Yeah. 
I think I think it's it's good 

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for them to kind of burn off the
energy that way as well. 

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Yeah, well, she doesn't have 
much energy to burn. 

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I'm not sure where that energy 
would come from, where she's, 

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she stores it. 
But yeah, bless her. 

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She's super cute. 
Thank you for asking. 

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And I also wanted to actually, 
while we're talking about Duna, 

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just briefly, I wanted to ask 
you about your dogs. 

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So just for context, anybody 
that's listening, I met Lisa a 

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couple of weeks ago. 
Basically, Project Galgo asked 

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for some pictures of their dogs,
rescue dogs who are currently in

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foster. 
And so I went to Lisa's house to

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photograph her dog China, and I 
photographed all of her dogs. 

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She's got three dogs and, and 
loved it. 

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So, yeah, that's how we met. 
And because Lisa's a foster, I 

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just thought it would be 
interesting to get her on the 

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podcast, ask a couple of 
questions and see, you know, 

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maybe we could pique someone's 
interest about fostering, 

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whether that is with the Gal 
goes or Poten goes or any, any 

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breed of dog really. 
So yeah, I would love for you to

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tell me first about your journey
as in in fostering, how you 

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started and then kind of lead 
into the dogs that you currently

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have. 
Yeah, of course. 

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Thank you for having me and my, 
my, I've always followed various

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rescue organisations on social 
media but never had the 

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opportunity to, to foster 
because I worked and I've sort 

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of managed my own dogs with, you
know, dog walkers and that sort 

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of thing. 
But during the pandemic, 

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obviously we will work from home
and I thought it was a great 

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opportunity to actually try 
fostering for the first time. 

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So that was about what, five 
years ago and the very first 

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foster dog that I got was a 
little Podenko called Maddie, 

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who, I mean, I mean, talk about 
in at the deep end. 

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She was, I don't know if you 
know anything about Podenko is 

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they're incredibly sensitive 
dogs. 

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Very they're very intelligent. 
Again, she was from Spain. 

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She'd been used by a hunter. 
I mean, you can only begin to 

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imagine what, what sort of life 
she'd had. 

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She was so, so traumatised when 
she came to me. 

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She, she was so fearful of 
people. 

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She spent the first three weeks 
in a crate that I obviously left

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the door open and put a big 
blanket over it. 

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So it was just like a little den
for her. 

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But that was her safe space. 
And it was, it was really eye 

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opening and really shocking to 
see such trauma in, in, in such,

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such a sweet dog. 
And, and it was, it was an 

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interesting journey for, for all
of us as a family to see a dog 

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that that was so shut down. 
So we literally spent three 

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weeks ignoring her. 
We didn't get eye contact and 

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she would just watch, She would 
watch how we interacted with our

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dogs. 
And eventually she, she got a 

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little more confident. 
She'd come out of her crate, 

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she'd interact with us, she'd 
lie in the sun when we were in 

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the room. 
And so that was our the start of

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our foster journey. 
Eventually she found a home, a 

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wonderful home with another dog.
And we sort of, it took a moment

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to have a bit of a break. 
And then I think, I think it was

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such a rewarding experience. 
I mean, it was, it was difficult

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and you learn a lot about 
yourself and your kind of 

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ability to cope and, and how 
much patience you have. 

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And I think it comes from a 
place of understanding really 

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that these dogs have have 
experienced such a horrific 

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time. 
You must feel a little bit 

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responsible to sort of 
demonstrate to them that not all

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people are bad like, yeah, you 
know, undo some of the the 

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trauma and the damage that has 
been done. 

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So yeah, that was that was 
Maddie. 

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And then it's been our full 
systems go after that sort of 

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consecutively. 
I've fostered a few other Denkos

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and and gel goes and a couple of
cross breeds that needed a home 

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as well. 
So yeah, it's been, it's been a 

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journey. 
Yeah, I'm sure. 

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Just quickly going back to 
Maddie, did you know anything 

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about her background? 
Did did they give you any 

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details? 
Not a huge amount, but I think 

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because they've picked up a 
strays in Spain and they are 

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used as tools by hunters. 
And so the rest is a guesswork, 

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but I think there's enough known
about the way hunters treat 

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these dogs to know that she 
would have had a pretty horrific

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time. 
You know, they, they, they don't

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look after them. 
They keep them in horrendous 

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conditions. 
They half starve them because 

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they I want them to be good 
hunters, that they believe that 

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if they are hungry they'll be 
better hunters. 

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It's interesting that China that
I have at the moment, she's got 

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quite a weird relationship with 
food and this kind of this, the 

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first time I've really 
experienced it is that. 

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Do not too. 
She is scared to take food off 

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of me. 
One of the things I recently 

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learned is that the hunters will
kind of he instil that negative 

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connection with food because 
when they catch something like a

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hare or a rabbit, they don't 
want them to eat it. 

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So I think, yeah, it's it's it. 
And even now she won't. 

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She'll take food out of my hand,
but not my husband or Lucas, my 

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son, just me. 
And even then, she's really kind

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of like she's sort of, you know,
comes up really slowly, grabs it

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out of my hand and runs. 
I think she's afraid she's going

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to get, you know, that's the 
sort of body language that I'm 

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sensing is that she's afraid 
that, you know, there's 

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something bad going to happen to
her with food. 

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Yeah. 
What about resource guarding? 

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Have you had any of? 
That none at all. 

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It's really interesting, like I 
haven't had any of the, any of 

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the fosters have had a, a 
resource guarding problem. 

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They've all been pretty chilled.
I I mean, it's something you can

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get on top of quite quickly. 
And if, if there's any kind of 

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glimmer of being possessive 
about food, I just, I can't have

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that because of my, my dogs. 
So it's something you know, I've

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got to get on top of quite 
quickly. 

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But I've no it's never been. 
It's never been an issue. 

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How would you typically get on 
top of that? 

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It's just a case of, well, when 
I've just I've just sort of 

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pushed them away from their 
food. 

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So like I am the pack leader, 
you know, in that kind of 

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context so that they don't feel 
that they have to guard their 

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food. 
So I mean, I'm not, I wouldn't 

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put myself in danger. 
And I've never, I've never been 

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bitten. 
My dogs have never been bitten. 

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And the most of these dogs are 
100% not aggressive. 

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They're just completely more 
likely to sort of, you know, 

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dart away then then then kind of
lunge at you. 

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But I think, you know, what 
they've experienced there is an 

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element of where they've been 
half staffed. 

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So they're going to be a little 
bit like frantic with food, but 

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you have to kind of make them 
understand that the other dogs 

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also need their space. 
So at the moment, although it's 

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not resource guarding, but what 
what China does is she just eats

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her food and then she'll wander 
over and try and eat Willows 

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food while Willow is eating her 
food. 

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00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:08,360
And no, you can't do that away 
from there. 

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But I think, you know, not 
shouting at her, but I just need

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her to understand that Willow's 
food is Willow's food and she's 

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finished her food. 
So then she needs to just wait 

223
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,280
and she'll get her treat 
afterwards. 

224
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,680
And that's what it's just 
getting them in the routine. 

225
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,960
And as soon as they know they're
going to get fed regularly, it 

226
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,240
all these kind of fears and 
anxieties, they have generally 

227
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,320
just fall away. 
Yeah, that must be so nerve 

228
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,680
wracking as a dog. 
I mean, they literally depend on

229
00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:40,240
us for everything and especially
routine. 

230
00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:44,800
So not having that, I cannot 
imagine the level of anxiety 

231
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:49,040
that that must produce where you
are entirely dependent on 

232
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,080
someone else to to make 
decisions for when you can eat, 

233
00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,440
when you can wait, when you can 
have water. 

234
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,240
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
No, it's, it's, it's horrendous.

235
00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:02,280
But I think because of, because 
of my, what I do, I work from 

236
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,360
home literally Groundhog Day 
every day. 

237
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,880
It's the same routine. 
Get up at the same time, go for 

238
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,000
a run with them, they come back,
they have their breakfast, they 

239
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,600
sleep and you know what I mean? 
It's, it's literally sort of 

240
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,880
rinse, repeat every day apart 
from the weekends. 

241
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,760
There's a bit of variation, but 
generally they get their walks 

242
00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:21,400
and their food at the same 
times. 

243
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,600
And I think it's really 
comforting for a dog to have 

244
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,880
that kind of that repetition, 
especially in the early days, 

245
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,080
you know, when they're kind of 
just, you know, settling in. 

246
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,560
I agree. 
So I know that you've got a back

247
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,080
garden, but typically how often 
would you say that? 

248
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,200
Have you observed how often they
would go out to relieve 

249
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,160
themselves in a day? 
Or maybe just go for a wonder or

250
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,440
a sniff? 
Again, so I have some chickens 

251
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,960
that free range in the back 
garden so I need to. 

252
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:51,600
Did you miss? 
Him you didn't see the chickens 

253
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,440
Oh OK. 
And they're, they're at the top,

254
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,040
at the very top of the garden. 
There's a kind of enclosure for 

255
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,920
them, but they they're used to 
kind of free ranging around the 

256
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,480
whole garden. 
So like I have to make sure the 

257
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,160
chickens are away before the 
dogs hurt. 

258
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:05,840
So again, that's part of the 
routine. 

259
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,600
So I can't just let them out 
whenever they want. 

260
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,000
So they have to go out in the 
morning for a wee and then 

261
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,480
lunchtime I let them out. 
And then it's, I've noticed with

262
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,680
with China, especially after 
food, she seems to need a wee 

263
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,160
then, yeah, then, then just 
after they've had their food 

264
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,320
about four and then they will 
sort of settle down and munch 

265
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,400
antlers and and that sort of 
thing and then last thing at 

266
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,560
night. 
OK, so you you give them dinner 

267
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,480
at 4:00 PM? 
Oh, OK. 

268
00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,120
What time do they typically go 
to beat the bed? 

269
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,040
Where they go to bed when I go 
to bed, and I go to bed quite 

270
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,080
early because I'm up quite 
early, so about 9:20. 

271
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,240
You should let them out. 
Yeah, OK. 

272
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,680
And then when they come in, they
have a little treat and then 

273
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,840
they they just all shut off to 
their beds and that's it. 

274
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,480
And they sleep all the way 
through I've. 

275
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,800
Noticed a fox or something 
outside and then they're all 

276
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:00,720
barking. 
But yeah, generally they're, 

277
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:02,960
they're, yeah, all sleep down 
here together. 

278
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:04,800
Are they? 
Do they tend to be OK with 

279
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,440
strange dogs? 
As in like new dogs and in the 

280
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,440
park or whatever. 
Again, all of the dogs that I 

281
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:16,960
fostered have been fine with 
dogs that we meet on walks. 

282
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:24,920
Some are completely, you know, 
disinterested when they see 

283
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:26,560
another dog, they're not 
bothered. 

284
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,000
Others, you know, like China 
loves meeting other dogs and she

285
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,800
loves having a sniff and going 
up to say hello. 

286
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,680
And she'll get a bit bouncy if 
like she gets excited, like she 

287
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,040
wants to go and say hello. 
So I usually say to somebody, is

288
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,000
it OK if she says hello? 
And that you generally that 

289
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,640
they're fine with that and 
she'll go over and have a sniff 

290
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,680
and a little bounce around. 
But yeah, I haven't had, that's 

291
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:56,240
OK. 
I haven't had any dogs that have

292
00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,160
had any issues with other dogs, 
other breeds. 

293
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:03,880
So yeah. 
OK I have AI have slight fear 

294
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:08,280
that firstly having strange dogs
run up to her I think she will 

295
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,119
be fine but you just don't know.
It's so unpredictable. 

296
00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,160
I mean if they like their body 
language, might be rude or 

297
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,640
invasive, intrusive I don't know
how she would react. 

298
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:24,119
And the second thing I would be 
weary of is smaller fluffier 

299
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,599
dogs. 
Anything that resembles a hair. 

300
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:32,200
I don't know if if. 
It's a legitimate concern and I 

301
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,000
yeah, I would definitely proceed
with caution. 

302
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,160
But generally I think we 
underestimate dogs. 

303
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,880
I think they can tell the 
difference between Cavapoo and 

304
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:44,480
a, you know, a, a rabbit. 
What? 

305
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:50,760
What I have to be careful of is 
that they still have that, that 

306
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,480
chase instinct. 
So they, they might know it's a 

307
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,320
cow poo, but if that cow poo 
starts running across a field, 

308
00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:00,280
they're going to run after it. 
They're not going to hurt it, 

309
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:04,480
but they, that's their instinct 
is to kind of chase any, any dog

310
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,160
or you know, anything that they 
do. 

311
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:14,840
We had a particularly bouncy, I 
think it was a spaniel dog and 

312
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,520
it, it, it came over and it, it 
was wanted to play with China 

313
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,320
and China was bouncing around 
and she didn't mean to, but she 

314
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,320
just kind of knocked it over. 
It was fine. 

315
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,480
But she was just being really 
bouncy and playful and it was 

316
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,240
quite small. 
And she sort of, I was like, oh,

317
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,400
it was, you know, it just rolled
over and carried on playing. 

318
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:38,040
But you know, I think you have 
to be careful that and, and 

319
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,800
they're big dogs as well. 
So if they go charging towards a

320
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,080
small fluffy dog, generally the 
owner of that dog is going to be

321
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,200
quite worried. 
But. 

322
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:48,560
Yeah, they're going to lose 
their minds. 

323
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:50,920
I would. 
Oh my God. 

324
00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:53,960
So I try and I do. 
I mean, if I see anything small 

325
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,520
and fluffy, just generally keep 
keep them under control, put 

326
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:57,880
them back on the lead, that sort
of thing. 

327
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,760
Yeah, that's what I tend. 
To do I have stay on the lead? 

328
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,880
Yes, yeah, they do tell you that
when you start fostering. 

329
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:11,720
Under no circumstances. 
And also do do your dogs have 

330
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,400
their GPS? 
No. 

331
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,680
How come, out of curiosity? 
Well, Willow doesn't go very far

332
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:22,160
anyway now being 3 legged and 
quite not old, but she's about 

333
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,240
7:00 or 8:00 now so she only 
goes sort of to the park and 

334
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:30,200
back and Ruby just doesn't need 
one. 

335
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,640
I know, but China? 
Because she is a project girl go

336
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,240
dog, isn't she? 
Is a project girl go dog, but 

337
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:44,880
she's she had a bit of a sort of
a rash, like a sort of itchy 

338
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,960
rash and she's still got it a 
little bit in her feet, but her 

339
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:54,800
neck was getting sore. 
So I, I took it off for a while 

340
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,080
and I, I use it on the walk, but
I just don't have it on in the 

341
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:00,760
house because, I mean, you've 
seen. 

342
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,240
Well, yeah, No, she can't. 
She couldn't get out of my 

343
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,360
garden even if she wanted to. 
Yeah. 

344
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:09,440
But yeah, I don't. 
I try and I try and leave her 

345
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,200
neck kind of free of things when
she's in the house. 

346
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,160
Yes, same. 
Do not doesn't have anything on 

347
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,080
her when we come home. 
In fact, she waits for me at the

348
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,520
door when we come back in so 
that I unclip her. 

349
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,880
And it's weird because it's like
it's all this armour, isn't it? 

350
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:30,120
And it's heavy. 
Exactly. 

351
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:34,280
Again, going back to the concept
of being dependent on this human

352
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:38,840
being, you know, and having all 
of this kind of, it's not 

353
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,680
restraints, but you know what I 
mean, that sort. 

354
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,840
Of is, you know, and I think 
that's, that's it, isn't it? 

355
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,520
I mean, Dogs Trust us. 
They trust us to look after them

356
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,880
and do the right thing by them. 
And when you break Dogs Trust, I

357
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,240
think, you know, they really 
it's that they're traumatised 

358
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:57,960
and you have to kind of start 
again. 

359
00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,240
And that's what you do as a 
foster. 

360
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,760
You start again, building that 
trust back up again, and you 

361
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,280
know that's the process that 
takes time. 

362
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,120
Yeah, I actually this morning 
when I took her for a little, We

363
00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:16,520
walk a nature break, we walk 
around the block because I work 

364
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,040
full time. 
We walk around the block. 

365
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,480
And what I found is, and I knew 
this anyway, but for some reason

366
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,440
I thought this only really 
happens at night. 

367
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:29,000
We've got loads of foxes in the 
area they live in. 

368
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,320
They live in the Bush. 
There's a fox family in the Bush

369
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:36,800
here behind the flat where I 
live and and another Bush across

370
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,120
the road from me and another 
one. 

371
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,320
So anyways, doing this quick 
little walk with her, there was,

372
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,360
you know, bundles of food in 
various places. 

373
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,200
And yeah, because the local 
people, everyone looks after the

374
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,320
foxes here. 
We all care about the foxes. 

375
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,640
Yeah, but. 
But, you know, she wants to eat 

376
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,240
the food. 
So I feel terrible because I 

377
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,120
have to be like, no, no. 
And then I have to kind of like,

378
00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:09,160
she's so strong, I have to pull 
back her harness so that she 

379
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,000
doesn't go and gobble up all the
food. 

380
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,360
And I think this morning, 
actually, she found a puddle. 

381
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:18,280
This is so gross. 
But she found a puddle of vomit 

382
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,040
or something, it looked like, 
and she just went to eat it. 

383
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,600
And I was like, no, my instinct 
was like, no. 

384
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:29,280
And as soon as I went, no, she 
went, you know, she had such a 

385
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:34,680
big reaction to my reaction. 
And I just thought like, oh, I 

386
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,800
didn't mean to scare you like, 
you know what I mean? 

387
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,280
Like that must be that must be 
quite scary scene. 

388
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:45,840
Like a little example like that 
is it's an insight into their 

389
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:51,920
sort of quite deep seated trauma
because you know that that 

390
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,960
that's such an exaggerated 
response to such a fairly sort 

391
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,480
of insignificant, you just went 
like, oh, no, or something like 

392
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,480
that. 
But they're the first thing they

393
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,960
do is go into sort of, you know,
protective flight mode because 

394
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:07,840
previous experience has taught 
them that. 

395
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,600
Oh 100% I changed the bin bag 
yesterday and you know when you 

396
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,600
like pull out a new one and you 
put some air in it so that it 

397
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,400
opens and you can put it into 
the bin? 

398
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:22,280
I just went and she was like and
I just thought to myself, it's 

399
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,400
OK honey. 
So I shook it ever so slightly 

400
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,760
closer to her gently so she 
could see. 

401
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,080
It's nothing to worry about. 
Desensitising her a little bit, 

402
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,240
yeah. 
Yeah, but I do worry in those 

403
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,520
moments whether you're actually 
exacerbating the. 

404
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,680
No, I don't think so. 
I think I think it's you. 

405
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,360
You. 
I mean, what part of your job as

406
00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:46,880
a foster is, is getting these 
dogs used to being in a home 

407
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,120
environment? 
And I think you have to kind of 

408
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:54,680
desensitise them a little bit to
household stuff that is might be

409
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,160
a little bit frightening, but 
they need to learn isn't it's 

410
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,520
not going to hurt them. 
Yes, exactly. 

411
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,760
Well it's been 6 days now and 
she's still terrified when we go

412
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,200
for walks, unfortunately. 
Any cars. 

413
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,760
She's terrified of cars. 
In fact, she doesn't even like 

414
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,960
her ears, doesn't even don't 
even perk up when I call her 

415
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,400
name or anything. 
She's terrified of cars, other 

416
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,680
people. 
So yeah, I'm gently, gently 

417
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,440
introducing her to that. 
But but she loves, she 

418
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,920
absolutely loves going for walks
near fairing. 

419
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:27,600
There's a huge big field, open 
field or grass field, like a 

420
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,280
part open air park, not open air
park. 

421
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,200
What am I saying? 
Anyways, there's a big sort. 

422
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,480
Of park area. 
Park area, yeah, close to the 

423
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,440
beach. 
And so yeah, I put her on the 

424
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,160
long lead and there's a woodland
wooded area as well. 

425
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,160
And yeah, she just kind of runs 
free, ish. 

426
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,160
And what I noticed was you were 
talking about prey Dr earlier. 

427
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,520
What I noticed with her is 
she'll go to the bushes and her 

428
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,360
little paw will come up like a 
pointer. 

429
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:03,880
She doesn't have a pointy tail, 
but her paw comes up as if she's

430
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,680
like stalking her prey and she's
just looking and she's like 

431
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,440
almost like a snake gliding 
through the bushes. 

432
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,800
On the noise and the smell, I 
think they're listening as well.

433
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,080
Listening everything like but a 
few days ago when we when we did

434
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,880
that she did see something and I
swear if if I wasn't there she 

435
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,120
would have put gone head first 
into a Bush without any care in 

436
00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:25,440
the world. 
What's on the other side? 

437
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,840
Or if this stick pokes in her 
eyeball. 

438
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,000
Or you know what I mean. 
Like she's just like, I mean, 

439
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,360
I've dragged Chinese out of a 
out of a Bush before because, 

440
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,000
you know, she's, oh, you have 
kind of lunged into like a load 

441
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,920
of brambles and stuff. 
I'm like letting it come out of 

442
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,480
there. 
She's sort of like some twig 

443
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:44,960
stuck to her head. 
Yeah. 

444
00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:48,480
But yeah, they, they, they, I 
mean, they can hear and smell 

445
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,560
things, you know, that we can't.
So takes. 

446
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,240
It's fascinating. 
Yeah. 

447
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,480
Yeah. 
I'd love to know how to and if 

448
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,920
you have any ideas that would be
amazing how to kind of stimulate

449
00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:04,280
that that side of her, those 
innate behaviours, so she still 

450
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:09,320
gets that satisfaction but 
without harming anything. 

451
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,800
Yeah, I'm not sure. 
I'm no, I'm not sure. 

452
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:19,480
I mean, a lot of people don't 
want to encourage their sort of 

453
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:26,160
hunting instinct, their prayed 
too much because you know, it's 

454
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:31,720
sort of I think the end goal 
really is at some point you 

455
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,960
would like to be able to let 
them off the lead. 

456
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,640
So I think, I think I could be 
wrong, but but I think 

457
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:46,520
encouraging their prey Dr might 
might make them harder to rehome

458
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,440
because that's a lot of people 
have concerns about their prey 

459
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:54,680
Dr, don't they? 
So, but that said, my very first

460
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:59,160
lurcher that I got, we used to 
take him, uh, lure coursing. 

461
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,040
Okay. 
So, um, we just, it was, um, 

462
00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:06,720
we'd all meet up in a field and 
um, because he used to love to 

463
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,120
run. 
So they would have categories of

464
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:14,280
dogs like whippets, deerhounds, 
greyhounds, lurches and then 

465
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,400
just the lure across the field 
and they'd all chase it. 

466
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,000
Can't see anything wrong with 
that. 

467
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,360
I mean, if that's their innate 
nature and behaviour, why on 

468
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:24,080
earth would you want to suppress
that, no. 

469
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:29,560
I know, I know that that that 
was a sort of kind of a way of 

470
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,280
channelling it in a, in a really
sort of safe environment. 

471
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,720
All of the dogs were muzzles. 
That was a prerequisite, you 

472
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,360
know, But they just because 
they're all in a, they're all 

473
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:43,760
chasing and they're in that kind
of heightened hunting mode. 

474
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,000
Hunting mode. 
Yeah. 

475
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,960
They don't want any dogs to get 
hurt. 

476
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,200
So they all muzzle them, you 
know, just with their kind of, 

477
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,600
you know, the, the cake. 
Do they think they turn on each 

478
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,160
other? 
We don't know. 

479
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,360
Do you don't know whether 
someone's dogs, you just don't 

480
00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:59,080
it did. 
It's a very sort of small 

481
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,600
measure to prevent any, you 
know, squabbles or anything 

482
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,320
happening or, you know, if they 
all dived on the lure, if they 

483
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,480
caught up with it, you don't 
know what what's going to 

484
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,200
happen. 
So they're all muzzled. 

485
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,480
I'm 100% agree with that. 
I think that's just a safety 

486
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,160
precaution really. 
And it was it was it was really 

487
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,680
good fun and and Dylan really, 
really enjoyed it. 

488
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,160
You know, that was he he just he
was a really he had a really 

489
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:30,400
strong prey Dr and and we were 
lucky we lived somewhere else 

490
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,200
and and there were fields 
without any sort of livestock in

491
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:38,320
them, but rabbits and he'd just 
be gone chasing. 

492
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,240
Yeah, yeah, it's really hard. 
I I did, I did some volunteer 

493
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,440
dog walking over the last, I 
don't know, four or five years. 

494
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,360
And it was with a Whippet border
collie cross. 

495
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,920
And oh, my goodness, if there 
was even a hint of squirrel 

496
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,360
anywhere, he would be off. 
Yeah. 

497
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,600
Making a beeline for so many 
squirrels. 

498
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,200
I'm sorry. 
I tried to avoid it as much as I

499
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,280
could, but it would come back 
with a squirrel in his mouth. 

500
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,720
So proud. 
Yeah, so proud. 

501
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,760
His his his owner ended up 
putting a little bell around his

502
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,520
neck so the squirrels could hear
him coming. 

503
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,560
I'm not sure. 
I mean the squirrels around here

504
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,760
seem really blase. 
I mean, I was, I was coming back

505
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:25,480
from a run and I had both Ruby 
and obviously China was was on 

506
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,200
the lead and and I had Ruby on 
the lead as well. 

507
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,120
And there was a squirrel like 
stood in the road in front of us

508
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,360
and and and I think the dogs 
clocked it before I did. 

509
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,080
And then the squirrel ran and 
the pair of them nearly had me 

510
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:39,800
over. 
So you know, when you're 

511
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,480
suddenly like I, I, I didn't in 
that split second, I should have

512
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,440
let go of Ruby, but I'd kept my 
brain just froze. 

513
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,760
So I was holding on to both of 
them whilst I was like almost 

514
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,560
dragged, you know, my feet. 
Luckily it shuts up a tree. 

515
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,920
And they were like, oh, barking,
thankfully, yeah. 

516
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,520
But I think a lot of dogs have a
thing for squirrels. 

517
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,600
Don't know. 
I don't think it's specifically 

518
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:07,240
a sight hound specific kind of 
issue. 

519
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:08,480
I think all. 
Really. 

520
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,560
I didn't know that. 
I thought it was really just 

521
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,680
sight out. 
My mum's got a a poodle crossed 

522
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:21,800
Dalmatian and he is, he chases 
foxes and squirrels as well, 

523
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,480
goes mad when he sees them. 
So yeah, I think it's, I think 

524
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,240
most dogs have, have got a bit 
of a pro drive. 

525
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,000
I mean, yeah, they're hunters, 
aren't they? 

526
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,800
They're predators, so they're 
bound to. 

527
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,680
Yeah. 
Oh, it's such a weird concept to

528
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,040
think of them in that way, but 
it is true. 

529
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,080
Yeah. 
Even when I cuddle doona, 

530
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,800
there's a small part of in the 
back of my head that's like, be 

531
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,280
careful. 
They are unpredictable. 

532
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:52,680
They can be, you know. 
Yeah, but she's just so gentle. 

533
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,720
I can't imagine. 
Yeah, and this I really had a 

534
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,880
dog that I thought that I've 
always, they just been very much

535
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:05,960
like I'm very conscious that 
they are terrified, some of them

536
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:11,920
and so scared and that, you 
know, your interaction with them

537
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,840
in the early days just puts more
stress on them. 

538
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,080
I don't. 
I've never, I've never, ever 

539
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:24,680
once felt like they would turn 
on me and saying something 

540
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:30,680
because, you know, based on 
that, the sum total of their 

541
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,960
life experiences before they 
come to me, you'd think that 

542
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,400
they would be really. 
They've hit the jackpot now. 

543
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,640
Really snappy with humans 
because humans have done to 

544
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,240
them, has hurt them. 
Yeah, but, well, that's a human 

545
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,440
perspective, isn't it? 
Yeah. 

546
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,240
Yeah, really. 
But the dogs are just, you know,

547
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,000
I guess I don't know who. 
Maybe there's a part of them 

548
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,000
just that needs to trust again 
and you know. 

549
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:55,800
They're so resilient, aren't 
they? 

550
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,360
It's just considering everything
that they go through, their 

551
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,840
capacity for love is infinite. 
Yeah, either that or just 

552
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,080
tolerance. 
The I went to the documentary 

553
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,920
screening of Dogspiracy a couple
of weeks ago. 

554
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,640
Did. 
You Mark Abrahams? 

555
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,440
Oh, yeah, He's amazing. 
Yeah. 

556
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,200
Yeah, really. 
Very long time ago, he was my 

557
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,640
vet. 
Yeah. 

558
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,440
Yeah. 
Well, we live in the South. 

559
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,800
It's such a small world. 
I think there's like 3° now, 2° 

560
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,480
of separation. 
Yeah, And, and I just really 

561
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,800
warmed to him because I took 
Dylan in my lunch that was 

562
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,880
telling you about that. 
And he put a pic. 

563
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,920
He said, oh, do you mind if I 
put a picture on social media? 

564
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,840
Dylan? 
And I was like, oh, yes, because

565
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,080
usually people are like, you 
know, they pick the, the, the 

566
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,720
fluffy cute ones, don't they? 
But he, he was like, oh, Dylan's

567
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,000
beautiful dog. 
Let's can I put a picture of him

568
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,000
on social media? 
I was like, 100% go for it. 

569
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,600
And yeah, he's he's just such a 
nice guy, does a lot of amazing 

570
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:06,800
work just very broadly, not just
dogs, but for animal sort of 

571
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,520
advocacy as well. 
Yeah, He's an amazing person 

572
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,400
with with them. 
Who's the actor? 

573
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:14,760
Who? 
Peter. 

574
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,440
Someone that he also Egan, but 
yes, yeah. 

575
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:18,120
Egan. 
That's it. 

576
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:19,560
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

577
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,480
What was that like? 
I wanted to go and see it, but 

578
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,160
also I didn't because the 
subject. 

579
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,120
I had the same concern. 
If I'm honest, I was really 

580
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,120
worried because I tend to, I've 
spent most of my life looking 

581
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:33,560
away. 
I just cannot. 

582
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,960
I don't have the Constitution, 
if I could call it that, to 

583
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,920
like, you know. 
Confronted with it. 

584
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,760
Exactly. 
And recently when I kind of 

585
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,680
started this whole dog journey, 
I've been telling myself don't, 

586
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,320
don't look away, like this is 
I'm building that is it 

587
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:53,520
resilience? 
I don't know. 

588
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,720
I wanted to protect my own 
innocence. 

589
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,400
I never wanted to get to a point
where I where I was so 

590
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,400
desensitised where I'd be like, 
that's normal. 

591
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,840
Oh, you know what I mean. 
So, so by but so for context, 

592
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,239
the there is a specific reason 
why I used to live in Mexico 

593
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,480
many years ago. 
And in Mexico they have this 

594
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:21,719
type of newspaper called the 
Amaryistas it's or Amaryista, 

595
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,480
something like that. 
It's like a a yellow newspaper. 

596
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:33,840
And because of so much crime and
cartel violence, these types of 

597
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:40,960
newspapers would have full front
page photos and shocking 

598
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,040
headlines with people who were 
hung with, you know, dead 

599
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,560
bodies, that kind of thing. 
And I used to be a school 

600
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,159
teacher, a kindergarten teacher.
And so on the way to school in 

601
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:54,080
the mornings, you'd stop at the 
traffic light on the corner, 

602
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,600
turn to your left and see these 
newspapers. 

603
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,200
And I'd think, what about the 
kids on their way to school? 

604
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:04,040
Like, this is such a normal, 
ingrained part of life. 

605
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,520
And I remember at that moment I 
will do everything I can to 

606
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,000
protect myself from normalising 
things that shouldn't be normal.

607
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,040
And so when it came to dogs 
specifically, I can't see it. 

608
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,440
The same with any kind of any 
injustice and animal cruelty. 

609
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,720
It's awful, but there's so many 
layers to that. 

610
00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:24,120
So many layers. 
But anyways, so going back to 

611
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,280
the movie, I had the same 
concerns and I was really, 

612
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,240
really worried that I was going 
to sit there bawling my eyes out

613
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:33,560
the entire time. 
But they've made it so 

614
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:38,200
beautifully and delicately that 
there's just enough, just enough

615
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,240
sadness for you to understand 
the gravity of the situation 

616
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:46,920
without overshadowing the entire
film with that. 

617
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:52,880
So you kind of understand the 
issue, the urgency, what's 

618
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,320
happening and why it's important
and why it matters and why it 

619
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,000
shouldn't be happening. 
And then, yeah, it kind of you 

620
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,640
go through a roller coaster of 
emotions, really, but they're 

621
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,160
not extreme emotions. 
So it's specifically. 

622
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,080
Dealing with the puppy mills in 
America, isn't it? 

623
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,320
The puppy mills in America, 
yeah. 

624
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:17,920
I had no idea whatsoever that 
the puppy mills or the Breeders 

625
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,360
tend to be. 
Where did they go? 

626
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,040
Was it? 
It wasn't Alabama. 

627
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,200
Is it the Amish? 
Yes, the Amish. 

628
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I mean, I, I've also, I've also 

629
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:35,640
follow a, a few, one of my, my, 
my passions is, is heavy horses.

630
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,360
So there's a few kind of like 
from, from, from, from, from way

631
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,000
back from my childhood. 
My, my dad had a horse. 

632
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,280
And, and so there's, there's a 
few kind of rescues called, 

633
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,680
there's one called Colby's crew.
And what they do is then they 

634
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:57,160
rescue these heavy horses, these
work horses from the slaughter 

635
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:01,600
pipeline. 
So what happens is, and it's 

636
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,720
specifically the Amish, because 
of the way they live their life,

637
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:11,200
they don't have electricity or 
cars, but they they could look 

638
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,160
after the the horses that plough
their fields. 

639
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:19,200
They could make sure that they 
have veterinarian care, but they

640
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,480
don't. 
They work them to death and then

641
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,440
send them to slaughter. 
And that this organisation 

642
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,280
specific that I follow on social
media is called Colby's crew and

643
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,720
they go into the slaughterhouse 
and they rescue these ex 

644
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:39,160
workhorses and sort of 
rehabilitate them and show them 

645
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,720
compassion and love and 
kindness. 

646
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:45,880
And very often they're they're 
old and they don't get re 

647
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:51,600
rehomed, but they provide them 
with a retirement or worst case 

648
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:59,280
scenario, a dignified way out. 
But same with the the horses 

649
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:04,040
that pull like tourist carts in 
places like New York. 

650
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,240
Oh yes, I saw. 
I saw there were kids standing 

651
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:09,280
on the side in Central Park 
screaming, just basically saying

652
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:10,920
save the horses. 
It's awful. 

653
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,960
I've been there, I've seen it. 
It's just, there's so many 

654
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:15,720
things that you just look around
you. 

655
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,200
They're like, how is this 
happening in 2020? 

656
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:25,560
Five, I went to Seville a few 
years ago and beautiful city, 

657
00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:30,400
but you know, it was June and it
was about 20-30, eight, 38°. 

658
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,680
It was boiling. 
And, you know, everywhere you 

659
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:42,560
go, there's horses with, you 
know, carts and, you know, that 

660
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,840
are waiting for tourists to, to,
to hop on and have a tour around

661
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,600
the city. 
Stick in that temperature. 

662
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,040
We were, you know, diving from 
one sort of, you know, air 

663
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,840
conditioned place to another 
because it was so hot, 

664
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,280
especially in the afternoon. 
But they were just stood there 

665
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,200
in baking heat. 
I'd, yeah, I found I found that 

666
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:08,440
aspect particularly harrowing 
because again, once you open 

667
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:13,160
your eyes to this, once you, you
see how wrong and how, how cruel

668
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,960
it is, then it really it 
sometimes that kind of 

669
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,160
overwhelms you a little bit. 
Absolutely, yeah. 

670
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,840
That's when walking along and 
they would sort of be like, oh, 

671
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,760
do you want to, you want to go 
on the, you know, horse ride? 

672
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,640
My husband was like just wrong 
person. 

673
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,480
Don't ask her like to get away 
from me. 

674
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,000
There's yeah, it does. 
It does provoke some some quiet 

675
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,880
sort of extreme feelings when 
you see that. 

676
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,400
Yeah, you know, it's, it's 
sometimes it's the scale of it 

677
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,760
and you just think, why do you 
think, really think the horse is

678
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,200
enjoying it? 
Do you think, you know, they're,

679
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,320
they're they're fine. 
Stood on tarmac day after like 

680
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,960
day after day and then dragging,
you know, this, this heavy 

681
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:02,480
carriage around with tourists in
in sweat, pouring often. 

682
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,400
Do you think that takes? 
Do you think that's acceptable? 

683
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,440
Because I I don't, you know. 
Go on the bus and see the city. 

684
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,560
Thank you. 
I don't need, I don't need to, 

685
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,640
to kind of like engage in animal
exploitation for me to enjoy the

686
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,880
experience. 
It's just, it's just wrong. 

687
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,280
It's interesting because going 
back to the Amish, I remember 

688
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,160
Mark was saying going there 
variance in that, seeing that 

689
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,360
there was a real disconnect. 
The Amish, they would have these

690
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:34,240
puppy mills, so like this, you 
know, huge, it's a warehouse or 

691
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:37,040
something with loads and loads 
of puppies. 

692
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,240
And obviously the mums just 
breeding, breeding, breeding, 

693
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:44,080
breeding endlessly. 
And these people would also have

694
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:48,480
their pet dog, but the pet dog 
would roam around freely outside

695
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,720
and, you know, enjoy their best 
life. 

696
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,920
And for some reason, in their 
minds, they have pet dog and 

697
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,040
then the dogs that they breed 
for commercial purposes. 

698
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,200
It's so interesting to me how 
humans have the ability to 

699
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,520
compartmentalise. 
I mean, that's that's not even 

700
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:11,240
speciesism, that's just that's 
just choosing one animal going 

701
00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:15,600
I'm going to treat you 
completely differently to all 

702
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,320
the other dogs. 
You know that that I'm going to.

703
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,520
The money maker? 
Traumatise. 

704
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,520
One thing I didn't get about the
Amish, I didn't think they're 

705
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,200
all about I, I, I didn't think 
they're about money making. 

706
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:27,600
I didn't think that was their 
thing. 

707
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:33,840
But I mean, based on what I have
learned about them is that 

708
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,840
there's only one reason you can 
have puppy mill is to sell 

709
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,320
puppies, and people sell puppies
for a lot of money. 

710
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:41,760
Yeah, and especially if you see 
those. 

711
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,120
Dry birds, that's what's 
motivating them is making a lot 

712
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,360
of money. 
Yeah, I can't remember how much 

713
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,440
it was, but they totalled it in 
the film. 

714
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:50,960
I don't want to give too much 
away. 

715
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:52,920
I really, really want people to 
go and watch it. 

716
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,240
I think it's going to be 
released on Apple. 

717
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,480
Is it Apple TV? 
I think so. 

718
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,000
I don't want to get that wrong, 
but I think it might be. 

719
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,040
But it will be available online 
soon. 

720
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,520
So if anyone is interested, it 
won't like it will upset you 

721
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,120
enough to like, you know, boil 
your blood a little bit, but it 

722
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,000
won't. 
It's not traumatising as in. 

723
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,680
So definitely watch it so you 
can tell more people and stop 

724
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,880
fueling this industry. 
Puppy buying is just ridiculous 

725
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,840
and people are handing over 
puppies younger and younger and 

726
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,800
younger. 
Like I spoke to someone recently

727
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,320
who was telling me, oh, I think 
my dog has resource guarding. 

728
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,600
You know, I'm not an expert, but
I said, how old is your dog? 

729
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,360
And they were like 7 weeks. 
And I was like, what are you 

730
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,720
doing with A7 week old puppy? 
They should not leave their mums

731
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,240
until at least 12 weeks. 
I mean, in an ideal world they'd

732
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:47,040
never leave their mums, but you 
know what I mean? 

733
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,080
Like it's such a important 
period in their life and they 

734
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:55,480
just ripped away because someone
is impatient and can't wait to 

735
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,760
have a puppy. 
I think it's, it's also these 

736
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,600
breeders, I think we had this 
discussion before about how I 

737
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:06,800
have quite, quite sort of 
extreme views on, on breeders 

738
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,480
that that perhaps some people 
might disagree with. 

739
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,040
And that's absolutely fine. 
But I do not think that there is

740
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,000
such a thing as an ethical 
breeder. 

741
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,280
I just don't think, I mean, you 
know, do yourself a favour, 

742
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,920
follow some, some, some animal 
rescue charities that are just 

743
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:29,760
just overflowing with dogs that 
people get and, and, and you 

744
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:34,320
know, they, they purchase them 
for 800, nine, 100 lbs and they 

745
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,320
get them past the puppy phase. 
And then they get into the 

746
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,120
adolescence and they start 
getting destructive and they 

747
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,600
don't, they don't want to deal 
with them. 

748
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,600
They don't have the, the 
patience to deal with them going

749
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,760
through that. 
So they just discard them. 

750
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,920
You know they discard them or 
they get devices to manage them.

751
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,680
Yes, yeah. 
Yeah, it's a billion # industry,

752
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,320
I've recently learned. 
I cannot believe that there are 

753
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,520
so many people who rely on these
tools. 

754
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,640
I understand that like, you 
know, livestock, all that kind 

755
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,280
of stuff. 
The same as an electric fence. 

756
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,280
I understand that clear signal, 
do not go, do not hurt the 

757
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:11,080
animals. 
You know? 

758
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,560
That for me is the only time 
where I could see that as being 

759
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:20,000
justified by regular people with
regular fluffy pets, Chihuahuas,

760
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,480
Shih tzus, whatever. 
With these electric collies I 

761
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,000
cannot I. 
Mean all you're doing is 

762
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,920
traumatising your dog and making
the problem worse. 

763
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:33,200
You do not solve anything by 
using force or pain to manage a 

764
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,760
behavioural issue. 
It's not going to make things 

765
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,920
better. 
You're just going to end up with

766
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,720
a an absolutely traumatised 
animal. 

767
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:46,920
It's cruel. 
I mean, and again, you know, 

768
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,640
have a bit of empathy. 
Imagine you walking around with 

769
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,560
an electric shock there a collar
and you you engage in a 

770
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:54,160
behaviour you don't know that's 
wrong. 

771
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,080
You know, they don't know the 
difference between a fluffy toy 

772
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:58,840
and a slipper. 
You know, you have to kind of 

773
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,800
see it from their point of view.
They're just doing what dogs do.

774
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,080
So, you know, they're playing 
with something that they think 

775
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,120
is OK, that's a toy, and then 
feel pain. 

776
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,480
Yeah. 
It's, it's, it's not, it's not 

777
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,120
something they understand. 
They don't understand why this 

778
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,680
the pains being inflicted on 
them half the time. 

779
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,600
Exactly. 
Yeah, yeah, the right and wrong.

780
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,400
Is wrong. 
Yeah, but they don't, they're 

781
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,240
not. 
That's a human concept, as far 

782
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:25,920
as I understand it. 
They're not thinking, oh, oh, 

783
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,960
I'm being naughty or like, oh, 
I'm being, you know, I'm going 

784
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,040
to push the boundary here. 
I think. 

785
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,880
I think that some people 
understand dogs to do that, to, 

786
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:40,240
to have that, you know, to, to 
be, I guess, conniving and 

787
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:42,040
spiteful and all these kind of 
things. 

788
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:43,680
You know, I don't think they 
have that. 

789
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,960
Connective behavioural traits 
that we have, but they don't. 

790
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:51,320
They're just, you know, I see 
people with dogs on leads and 

791
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,480
the dog is pulling and they're 
yanking the dog back. 

792
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,400
I come here, I said come here, 
stop pulling me. 

793
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,240
What? 
You think the dog understands 

794
00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:02,480
what you're on about. 
That's a, that's a, you know, 

795
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,960
it's just doing what dogs do. 
If you want to control it, I 

796
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,040
yanking it back repeatedly by 
its neck is probably not the 

797
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,800
best way. 
I mean, there are other ways of 

798
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,280
managing that sort of behaviour 
that don't involve shouting at 

799
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,920
it and yanking it by its neck. 
Well, yeah, but I think what I'm

800
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,600
what I've observed, because I 
see that quite often actually. 

801
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:28,120
I, I walked up to someone the 
other day and I was like, excuse

802
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:32,120
me, She was on the phone and she
had her dog and her dog was just

803
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,600
like kept, kept sitting. 
It didn't, he didn't want to 

804
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,280
move. 
He didn't want to go for a walk.

805
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,040
And she's, you can tell she's 
like, you know, on her phone 

806
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,040
having this conversation, deeply
engrossed in that moment. 

807
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,920
But her dog was holding her 
back, and she just kept yanking 

808
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,400
this thing. 
And, and yeah, I think she was 

809
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:53,000
in her own world, with her own 
urgency and her own priorities. 

810
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,840
And I just said, excuse me, can 
you stop yanking your dog by its

811
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,600
neck? 
I don't think that's, you know, 

812
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,360
And she just looked at me as if 
to be like, did you see that? 

813
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,920
You know what I mean? 
I don't think people realise 

814
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,600
what they're doing. 
It is almost like a reflex. 

815
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,880
But I, I think what you do in 
that moment is you, you hold a 

816
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,400
mirror up to their behaviour. 
And I think for for a split 

817
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,720
second they're like, oh, maybe 
that is wrong. 

818
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:22,040
Maybe I shouldn't be doing that?
Yeah, but but she wasn't engaged

819
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,240
with what she was doing. 
That's what I'm saying. 

820
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,960
If you're on a walk and your dog
just wants to sniff everything 

821
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:32,280
or, you know, you're rushing 
from A to B and you think, oh, 

822
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:37,960
I'll just fit in a quick walk or
whatever it might be, I don't 

823
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,360
think you. 
I think the main thing I'm 

824
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,720
trying to convey here is that 
more often than not, people are 

825
00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:46,520
not thinking about their dogs 
experience. 

826
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,000
Yeah, it's they're thinking 
about what's convenient for 

827
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:49,640
them. 
It's just. 

828
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,800
Something that they feel they 
need to do and need to get it 

829
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,200
over with as quickly as 
possible. 

830
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,240
They've got things to be doing, 
you know. 

831
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,920
So yeah, it's, it's they do. 
They're doing a walk without 

832
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:06,000
considering what the dog needs. 
Yeah, yeah, It's a routine. 

833
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,920
It's like I have a dog. 
Dog must be walked once, twice a

834
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,640
day. 
I'm busy. 

835
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,280
Do it quickly. 
Yeah, exactly. 

836
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:16,920
I mean, it's better than 
nothing. 

837
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,600
So if you really want to like, 
start comparing things, it's 

838
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,720
better than nothing because 
there are dogs that don't get 

839
00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:25,240
walked at all. 
How we treat dogs is a 

840
00:48:25,240 --> 00:48:29,640
reflection of who we are as 
individuals and as a society. 

841
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:31,960
It really, they are mirrors to 
us. 

842
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:40,480
You know how we treat them. 
Yeah, it's, it is hugely 

843
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:46,040
distressing when you see how 
they are treated when they fall 

844
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,760
into the wrong hands, though, 
you know, and, and going back to

845
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:57,520
the, the hunting dogs in Spain, 
it's it's as soon as you start 

846
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,280
doing your research and you are 
like gain. 

847
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:05,920
I follow Galgos Galgo Desol on 
on social media and you, you see

848
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,760
how they're treated. 
And it is just I'll use this dog

849
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,360
as a tool and then I'll discard 
it at the end of the hunting 

850
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,600
season. 
They they go. 

851
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:20,880
To the district. 
Level to torment and torture 

852
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:25,280
that animal at the end of the 
hunting season if if they're 

853
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,360
done with it. 
I mean what, what, what? 

854
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,080
I mean what goes to somebody's 
head. 

855
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:33,560
What is the compartmentalising, 
as we said before, like being 

856
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:40,280
able to stomach and justify the 
treatment of these animals? 

857
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,200
Something of something in you 
switches off. 

858
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,040
It must do I I cannot believe 
that we are born that way. 

859
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,440
Well, I think, I think with the,
with the, with the hunters in 

860
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:56,280
Spain, that's just it's, it's 
their culture, it's their. 

861
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,760
I know people from Spain in 
northeast, southwest and. 

862
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,400
No, I'm not saying the people 
from Spain, I'm saying 

863
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,160
specifically the hunters that 
use them. 

864
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:11,200
Yeah, as a tool that that is, 
that is. 

865
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:15,880
And what Gal Gagos del Sol does 
to try and break the cycle is 

866
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,440
they go into schools to try and 
educate the children. 

867
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:24,600
That is how you kind of break 
the cycle of that each 

868
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:29,200
generation growing up, you know,
the hunters, the family, seeing 

869
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:34,960
how the the father, always the 
father treats the the dog and, 

870
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,800
and thinking that's acceptable. 
And then they go into school and

871
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,680
they are taught actually, no, 
that is not acceptable. 

872
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,320
Like you can't can't. 
Break the conditioning. 

873
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:50,800
Like that, yeah. 
So that that's I guess how we, 

874
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:57,000
we start seeing some change, you
know, as a parent, I've got a 

875
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,800
son, he's 14. 
I've taught him to always 

876
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,760
respect animals. 
He's grown up with dogs, been in

877
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:08,120
the house while we've had all of
these traumatised foster dogs 

878
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,840
coming through. 
And when he was, when he was in 

879
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:14,360
nursery, I got called in by the 
headmistress and she said your 

880
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,880
son has pushed a child against a
wall. 

881
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:18,440
And I was like, well, that's 
unlike him. 

882
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,360
Anyway. 
It transpired that he was trying

883
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:25,600
to guide a spider that was on 
the pavement to safety. 

884
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:29,520
And another kid came along and 
stamped on it and he angry and 

885
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:34,480
pushed him against the wall. 
But actually I was, I was kind 

886
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,960
of super proud of him because 
that's sort of the sort of thing

887
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:42,160
that I'd instilled in him, that 
everything should have a chance 

888
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:45,360
to live it's life. 
You know, we've taken all the 

889
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:50,960
resources, we've taken over the 
countryside and everything, but 

890
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,240
we have to make space for, for 
all of the the creatures around 

891
00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:55,360
us. 
You know, they've got as much 

892
00:51:55,360 --> 00:52:00,040
right as us to live. 
So yeah, I think, I think it's 

893
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,240
down. 
It's down to the next generation

894
00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:04,760
really to to kind of make some 
change. 

895
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:06,880
I think I do think it will be 
different. 

896
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,760
I do think that they will make 
huge changes and they're up 

897
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,080
against so much. 
I feel for them. 

898
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,960
I think I went to Co-op the 
other day and then the boy 

899
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,360
behind the till, he asked me 
that. 

900
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,880
It was quite thought provoking 
when you were so he he is a 

901
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,480
student at university. 
We just had a very brief chat, 

902
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:30,280
but he said when you were my 
age, was it as hard as it is for

903
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:34,480
us now? 
God, amazing. 

904
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,800
He was asking about my career 
and I said telemarketing and he 

905
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,440
was like, oh, did you go to 
university? 

906
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,480
And I said no. 
And he was just like, oh, do you

907
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,640
think if you started all over 
again in this day and age, you 

908
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:50,400
know, your career, do you think 
it would be as easy as it was? 

909
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,360
And I was like, honestly, I 
don't think so. 

910
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,560
No. 
Yeah. 

911
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:55,960
It's. 
Challenging, isn't it? 

912
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,040
It's so challenging, but 
anyways, right enough for the 

913
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:01,640
doom and gloom because there are
good things out there. 

914
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:06,240
There are good people out there.
You being one of them, you know,

915
00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:08,960
fostering. 
I'd like more people to foster. 

916
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,360
I'm, I'm going to ask you a 
couple of questions and I just 

917
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:16,200
want you to focus on solutions 
because I am sure that you have 

918
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,560
thought about these things to 
some degree. 

919
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:24,360
So firstly, how can we get more 
people interested in fostering 

920
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:29,280
and adopting all dogs, not just 
bidentgoes and galgos? 

921
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:36,480
I mean, fostering is immensely 
rewarding. 

922
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:43,480
One of the, the, the main 
reasons, actually the 

923
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,680
predominant reason that people 
say they don't want to foster is

924
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:47,360
because they can't let the dog 
go. 

925
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:53,720
But I guess what, what, what 
I've always said to people is 

926
00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:58,800
that, yeah, it's, it's hard, but
it is, it's such, it's such an 

927
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:08,120
amazing, rewarding experience to
have looked after a dog, you 

928
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:12,600
know, got it, got it used to 
living in a home and then it 

929
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,080
finds its forever home. 
I think we discussed this, that,

930
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:19,040
that some of my, my, the people 
that have taken dogs from me 

931
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:25,920
that I fostered, send me updates
and, and, and say how amazing, 

932
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:30,000
you know, their dog is getting 
on and, and how wonderful it is 

933
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,320
and, and how grateful they are 
that I fostered that dog. 

934
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:39,080
And that's why you do it. 
And, and each time my foster dog

935
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:43,320
goes to their home, I, I cry for
about a day and then, you know, 

936
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,840
let's start again. 
But I think you have to, you 

937
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:49,600
have to put yourself out there a
little bit. 

938
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,280
You have to kind of open 
yourself up to the hurt. 

939
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,560
But you get used to it. 
You know, not, not in a, not in 

940
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,120
a kind of like you put up 
barriers. 

941
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,760
You just get used to the whole 
process of at some point that 

942
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:06,240
dog will find their their 
forever home and you you've, 

943
00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:11,160
you've done your bit and you 
know that that's hugely 

944
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,960
satisfying. 
Yeah, I feel like fostering, 

945
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,880
what I'm realising is fostering 
is not about me. 

946
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,600
It's not about the fosterer. 
It's about the dog, the bigger 

947
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:22,400
picture. 
It's not about whether or not 

948
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,680
I'm going to be sad when 
eventually there's a, you know, 

949
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,800
a forever home for the dog. 
Because ultimately having 

950
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,200
another dog come and stay with 
me afterwards means that there 

951
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:35,240
is one less dog in a kennel 
somewhere. 

952
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,520
Because as far as I understand 
it, it's a gridlocked system. 

953
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:43,440
The longer they the the dogs in,
the longer rescue dogs are in 

954
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:47,280
kennels, the fewer spaces are 
available to those who need them

955
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,680
in an emergency. 
And I think it also, if a dog 

956
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:56,920
has lived in a home, you can, 
you have a better idea of, you 

957
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:00,560
know, lots of things that make 
it more rehomeable. 

958
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:04,280
If you like, whether it's good 
with children, whether it's 

959
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:07,440
house trained, whether it's good
with other dogs, All of these 

960
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:12,040
things can you can, you can tick
a box and go, yes, they're good 

961
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:13,440
with dogs. 
They're clean indoors. 

962
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,560
And all of these things that 
would make them more rehomeable 

963
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:20,000
rather than in kennels where 
they're they're, they're more 

964
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,080
likely to be a bit of an unknown
quantity. 

965
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,040
Yeah, the unpredictability not, 
not entirely sure. 

966
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:27,640
And then having to start that 
entire process from zero. 

967
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,960
So how can we encourage more 
people to become fosters? 

968
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:33,320
Because I think it's just. 
Oh, to foster. 

969
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:39,680
I don't know. 
I mean, I, I, I hoped that 

970
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:43,640
people that I knew would foster,
but nobody, nobody has. 

971
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:48,080
And I and I don't know why. 
And it's a shame. 

972
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:52,040
There might be reasons like that
and, and it just means that they

973
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,400
they don't have the sort of 
circumstances that that that 

974
00:56:55,520 --> 00:57:00,800
make fostering possible. 
Yeah, I, I don't know, I wish 

975
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:05,280
more people would just put their
heart on the line a bit and, 

976
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,720
and, and take, take a chance. 
And, you know, there's a lot of,

977
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:14,240
a lot of support available if 
you foster through, through 

978
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:17,200
reputable sort of charities, you
know, they'll, they'll have 

979
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,280
behaviourists that can help you 
manage any problems. 

980
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:25,840
They'll try and match a dog to 
your specific circumstances. 

981
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:31,320
So it's not just like a, oh, 
here's here's, here's a dog and 

982
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,760
off you go. 
There's a lot of support as well

983
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:40,000
that you have access to. 
So I think it's a leap of faith 

984
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,400
and I think more people need to 
need to take it. 

985
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,800
Do you know, when you think 
about all the benefits of 

986
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,800
fostering it, for me, it's a no 
brainer. 

987
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,720
You compare buying a dog to 
fostering. 

988
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,480
Like, OK, so buying a dog, you 
end up buying the dog. 

989
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,400
So you pay for the dog, you pay 
for the vaccinations if it's not

990
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:02,560
already vaccinated. 
You pay for that bills. 

991
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:08,880
You pay for, you know, obviously
food, you pay for grooming, nail

992
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,480
clipping, hair, all that kind of
stuff. 

993
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:18,080
You pay for insurance, you know,
and then, you know, things like 

994
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,120
toys and harnesses and whatnot, 
right? 

995
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:24,640
That's buying a dog. 
Fostering on the other hand, 

996
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:28,560
you've got axe. 
Oh, and training and all that 

997
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:30,320
kind of stuff. 
Separately with the with the 

998
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:33,080
boat dogs. 
With fostering you have free 

999
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:37,200
access to behaviour risks. 
The dog's vet bills are covered 

1000
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:41,000
by the charity. 
If you go on holiday they can 

1001
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:47,160
arrange cover for you. 
With some charities, they 

1002
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,240
provide you with dog food and. 
Rescue up as well. 

1003
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:57,760
So if things really do go wrong,
if perhaps in some instances 

1004
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:01,240
perhaps the resident dog, you 
know, it doesn't cope with 

1005
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:05,320
another dog coming in, then it 
will they will take that foster 

1006
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:08,160
away and and try and place it 
with another home. 

1007
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,040
Yeah, I mean, that's worst case 
scenario. 

1008
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,080
But you know, in some instances 
that sort of thing does happen. 

1009
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:16,320
Yeah. 
So they will, they will manage 

1010
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:20,160
that situation for you. 
You buy a dog, you're not going 

1011
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:22,360
to take it back to the person. 
If you took it back to the 

1012
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:23,960
breeder, they don't want to 
know. 

1013
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:25,480
They're like, well, it's your 
problem now. 

1014
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,880
I've yeah, I've got your money. 
No, breeders take dogs back, do 

1015
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:30,560
they? 
As far as I'm aware. 

1016
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,840
So I know that some of them do, 
some, some of them would, but 

1017
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:37,760
not backyard breeders, of course
not. 

1018
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:42,160
So yeah, it's interesting, isn't
it, comparing those two things, 

1019
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,280
especially if you're unsure 
about whether or not to get a 

1020
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:49,120
dog, because the commitment to 
get a dog is so big, it's like 

1021
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:51,800
giving birth to a child. 
That's the level of 

1022
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:55,320
responsibility people should 
look at it as because it's for 

1023
00:59:55,320 --> 01:00:00,920
life and. 
There is a bit of a try before 

1024
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:02,960
you buy thing. 
I mean if you are. 

1025
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,600
It is the ring. 
You get the opportunity to live 

1026
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:09,320
with a dog. 
And I mean, I foster failed 

1027
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:15,080
twice because just for one 
reason or another, I couldn't 

1028
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:18,920
bear to part with them. 
So, you know, occupational 

1029
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:22,280
hazard, it happens. 
But yeah, So, you know, if 

1030
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:25,800
you're thinking of getting a 
dog, then you can, you can, you 

1031
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:28,600
can foster these breeds, 
different breeds and see how you

1032
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:30,440
get on with them. 
And yeah. 

1033
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,400
And then make a decision based 
on evidence, based on lived 

1034
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,600
experience, rather than just 
hoping for the best and winging 

1035
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:38,680
it. 
And this, you know, is the poor 

1036
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:42,200
dogs suffer and you're adding 
contributing to a problem 

1037
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:44,960
ultimately. 
So yeah, I, I would love for 

1038
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:48,320
more people to realise that 
fostering is such an amazing 

1039
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:54,240
thing, as in like a soft landing
into having a, having a forever 

1040
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:58,640
dog being, you know, And also 
it, it, I think it mirrors, it 

1041
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:00,880
reflects back to us what we're 
made of. 

1042
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,240
Because when things get tough, 
what do you do? 

1043
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,120
Yeah, yeah. 
No, it's, yeah. 

1044
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:09,040
It's, it's it's a leap of faith,
but it's hugely rewarding. 

1045
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:11,840
Hugely rewarding, yeah. 
Very much that's true. 

1046
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:17,880
OK, another question for you. 
What do you think it is? 

1047
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:23,160
Maybe one or two potential 
solutions to the rescue crisis 

1048
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:25,160
in the UK at the moment. 
Don't. 

1049
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:33,400
Know I, I, I think there is an 
there seems to be an attitude 

1050
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:37,880
with people that buy dogs that 
they are disposable in some way 

1051
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:41,200
that, that. 
Easy come, easy go. 

1052
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:43,800
They can just dump them at 
rescues. 

1053
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:46,680
And this is what's happening. 
And and this has been happening 

1054
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:50,000
since COVID when when people got
puppies because they were 

1055
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:53,080
suddenly working from home. 
And they could, you know, a 

1056
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,360
really short sighted attitude 
because obviously COVID was 

1057
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:59,760
never going to last forever. 
And at some point everybody 

1058
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:02,400
ended up having to go back to 
work, albeit, you know, hybrid, 

1059
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:04,640
what have you. 
But what the rescue centres 

1060
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:06,440
found is that they were flooded 
with dogs. 

1061
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:08,280
People were like, yeah, no, I 
don't have time for anymore. 

1062
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:11,840
So I think, I think it's like 
our attitude to dogs needs to 

1063
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:15,120
change. 
They are, they're not, you know,

1064
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:17,160
they're not disposable. 
I've seen, I've seen sort of 

1065
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:19,600
posts about and again, I'll 
probably get, I'll probably get 

1066
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,640
told off for this, but you know,
oh, you know, I need to get rid 

1067
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:24,000
of my dog because I'm having a 
baby. 

1068
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:26,600
Oh, I need to get rid of a dog 
because I'm moving house. 

1069
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:32,320
It's like you're, no, you know, 
you're, there are, there are 

1070
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:35,720
very few circumstances in my 
opinion, where you should get 

1071
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:37,760
rid of your dog. 
And if you get a dog and you 

1072
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:39,200
think you're going to get 
pregnant, then you need to 

1073
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:42,200
manage that situation. 
You know, why, why have you got 

1074
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:44,400
a dog and then suddenly you've 
got a baby and then you, oh, I 

1075
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:46,120
haven't got time. 
I'm going to get rid of the dog.

1076
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:49,120
It's not fair. 
I think, I think we've got a 

1077
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:52,720
very, we've, we've evolved to 
have a very casual relationship 

1078
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,080
with our, with our, with our 
canine friends that, that we're 

1079
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:58,520
just like, oh, they don't fit in
with our lifestyle anymore. 

1080
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:02,000
I'll just get rid of it. 
And there needs to be something 

1081
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:05,240
in place where people are made 
more responsible and it isn't 

1082
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,240
just a case of, oh, I can, I'll 
just dispose of it. 

1083
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:15,120
I'd maybe, maybe we need to go 
back to registration. 

1084
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,400
So we used to have to register 
dogs. 

1085
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,440
But you used to have to, yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1086
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:26,720
A long time ago you used to have
to register your pets. 

1087
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:31,720
And I think that might be the 
solution going back to that 

1088
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:38,120
system, having people a bit more
responsible for, for the dogs. 

1089
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:43,000
And I don't know, it's, it's 
something that keeps me awake at

1090
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:45,120
night. 
You know, the fact that, that 

1091
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:51,360
you see these kind of harrowing 
things, don't you, where people 

1092
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:56,000
drop their dogs off to the 
rescue centre and that dog 

1093
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,640
doesn't understand. 
It waits for you, it waits for 

1094
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:00,800
you to come back. 
It Pines. 

1095
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:05,840
It's, you know, it's, it's 
depressed, it's, it's 

1096
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:09,000
traumatised. 
They don't understand what's 

1097
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:11,160
going on. 
They don't understand why one 

1098
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:14,520
minute they're in a loving home,
the next minute they're in a, in

1099
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:18,160
a kennel surrounded by lots of 
distressed dogs and barking. 

1100
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:21,600
It's it's, I don't understand 
how people can do that. 

1101
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:25,960
Yeah, I find I find with a lot 
of these things, I've really, 

1102
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:28,200
when I think about dogs, I think
about small children. 

1103
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:32,920
And if I, if I look at the way 
that the world treats them and 

1104
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:36,080
then I don't want to discount or
disregard any of them. 

1105
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:39,120
Amazing humans doing amazing 
things because there are good 

1106
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:41,080
people out there doing good 
things for dogs. 

1107
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:47,360
But when I compare the treatment
of dogs versus the treatment of 

1108
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:52,800
maybe small human beings, and 
you see, the disparity is really

1109
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:56,120
interesting to me, how the brain
is capable of doing that, of 

1110
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:57,600
justifying. 
Yeah. 

1111
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:01,240
You know, yeah. 
It's, yeah, it's, it's, it's a 

1112
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:10,640
problem that needs a solution 
because so many perfectly good 

1113
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:14,040
dogs are put down because they 
can't be rehomed. 

1114
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:17,720
You know, the rescue centres are
overflowing. 

1115
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:21,920
You know, they can't, they can't
keep accepting dogs. 

1116
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:23,960
And if they don't accept them, 
what's going to happen? 

1117
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:29,800
People just like, dump them. 
They go to some remote place and

1118
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:31,560
Chuck their dog out the car and 
drive away. 

1119
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:38,160
Yeah, I don't I again, I don't 
know mentally. 

1120
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:40,800
Yeah. 
No, no, it. 

1121
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:44,160
Sorry, go ahead. 
No, no, it is, it is shocking. 

1122
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:48,280
And and again, it's it's, it's 
it's our attitude needs to 

1123
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:49,760
change. 
I think. 

1124
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,880
Yeah, that's the. 
So the so the so the root cause.

1125
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:56,960
I, I've read somewhere recently 
they said where there's a animal

1126
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:58,880
hurting, there's a human 
hurting. 

1127
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:03,960
So the root cause of suffering 
is human suffering. 

1128
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:07,960
So technically, if that is the 
case, then what can we do to 

1129
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:11,600
kind of address the issue at the
root to ensure that there's a 

1130
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:15,800
positive knock on effect for 
every other species as a result?

1131
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:18,080
You know what I mean? 
If you reverse engineer and 

1132
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:21,800
you're just kind of like, OK, it
starts the common denominators, 

1133
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:27,280
the human being and then reverse
engineered to the psychology, I 

1134
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:31,280
guess of it, of the choices and 
decisions that we make and then 

1135
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:34,040
how that impacts on other 
species, that kind of 

1136
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:37,800
superiority I. 
Don't know what as well. 

1137
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:44,080
I think a little bit, you know, 
Yeah, it's I yeah, it's, it's, 

1138
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:51,280
it's if, if there was an easy 
solution, I think it would have 

1139
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:56,960
been found by now. 
But I think it's, it's a much 

1140
01:06:57,040 --> 01:07:04,400
deeper problem. 
And, you know, in, in, in life, 

1141
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:11,000
when someone is frustrated and 
you know, things aren't going 

1142
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:15,000
well and they want to take their
frustrations out on someone, you

1143
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:16,880
know, it's the dog that gets 
kicked. 

1144
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:21,080
Do you know what I mean? 
In, in sort of abusive 

1145
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:26,040
households, It's, I mean, 
rescues take dogs from abusive 

1146
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:29,600
households because they're the 
first ones that that get bear 

1147
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:32,160
the brunt of any frustration 
that's going on in someone's 

1148
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:33,800
life. 
They don't have a voice, You 

1149
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:37,600
know, they're, they're, they're,
they could be, you know, kicked 

1150
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:40,680
and hit and you know that 
that's, that's the easy, easy 

1151
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:42,720
way out, isn't it? 
When you want to mend your 

1152
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:44,160
frustration. 
Yeah, I do. 

1153
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:47,920
Just like my brains. 
My brain is saying computer says

1154
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:51,320
no. 
That's how a normal brain should

1155
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:53,840
work. 
That's how any brain should 

1156
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,600
work. 
Is that you know that you, you 

1157
01:07:56,600 --> 01:07:58,640
are frustrated. 
You don't take your frustration 

1158
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:03,760
out on someone or something. 
You find an outlet for it that 

1159
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:08,880
is healthy. 
Yeah, life can be difficult 

1160
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:13,600
sometimes, but you don't lash 
out at the the people in your 

1161
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:15,680
life or the the animals in your 
life. 

1162
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:19,399
That's not acceptable. 
Yeah, healthy outlets for 

1163
01:08:19,399 --> 01:08:24,080
frustrations or better 
vocabulary or self soothing 

1164
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:27,880
techniques or more productive 
and constructive, you know, 

1165
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:32,720
outlets for dealing with very 
human feelings, but in healthy 

1166
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:36,200
ways. 
I think probably that's that's 

1167
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:39,840
there's potentially, yeah, that 
is a potential solution. 

1168
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:44,000
Unfortunately it will take a an 
entire generation to get there. 

1169
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:48,479
But starting with starting with 
children and teaching them 

1170
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:53,720
healthy ways of dealing with 
very human feelings could be a 

1171
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:57,960
way to address some of the knock
on effects of and, and that 

1172
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:03,000
compassion. 
Yeah, gosh, being a human is so 

1173
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:08,439
complicated and stressful. 
More absolutely stressful. 

1174
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:16,120
So I'd like to and with 
something positive, so I would 

1175
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:19,600
like for you to maybe share with
me one of your most rewarding 

1176
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:22,120
experiences in your fostering 
journey. 

1177
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:24,880
I mean, it's really difficult. 
I mean, they're all rewarding. 

1178
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:30,720
They are all rewarding, and they
all kind of have a special place

1179
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:36,160
in my heart. 
I mean, I think Maddie probably 

1180
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:40,560
was the most rewarding, the 
first one the most. 

1181
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:46,319
Like I have not had a dog with 
that level of trauma since. 

1182
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:52,960
So probably watching her journey
to recovery. 

1183
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:57,440
The the, the, the small wins 
when we'd be sitting watching 

1184
01:09:57,440 --> 01:10:04,720
television and she'd creep out 
of her crate and just like, lie 

1185
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:09,680
near us and we'd be sat there 
going getting really liked. 

1186
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:11,240
It's not. 
Ice cool. 

1187
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:13,320
Ice cool. 
Not looking, Don't look, don't 

1188
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:17,440
look. 
And then, you know, one I was, I

1189
01:10:17,440 --> 01:10:22,360
was out and Andy sent me a photo
and she'd come upstairs and 

1190
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,000
she'd, she was sleeping under 
his desk. 

1191
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:27,480
So he'd sort of taken a photo, 
just completely ignored her. 

1192
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:31,520
You know, the reason we were 
still ignoring her at that 

1193
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:34,440
stage, because if you went to 
put your hand towards her, like 

1194
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:37,680
even slowly, or even made a move
towards her, she'd run away. 

1195
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:41,160
So we were very much being 
guided by her. 

1196
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:44,920
Yeah, that was, that was 
phenomenal. 

1197
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:50,880
Just her. 
Her journey was one that was so,

1198
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:57,720
so sort of rewarding and 
heartbreaking as well. 

1199
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:01,840
How long did you foster her for?
Four or five months. 

1200
01:11:03,480 --> 01:11:05,280
Four or five months? 
Oh wow. 

1201
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:13,360
So where is she now? 
She is near Tunbridge in land a 

1202
01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:15,560
bit. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1203
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:21,240
So. 
But such a, such a kind of 

1204
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:26,560
intelligent and sensitive dog. 
Whatever had happened to her 

1205
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:33,560
really, you know, the, the, the,
the, the, the, the level of the 

1206
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:37,560
depths of, of, of the, the 
trauma was, was really, really 

1207
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:43,400
deep That the, the, the betrayal
of trust was so profound that, 

1208
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:46,160
you know, being the one to help 
rebuild. 

1209
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:49,400
That was just a privilege. 
Really. 

1210
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:50,840
It was a privilege. 
Oh, that's. 

1211
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:53,320
Wonderful. 
Yeah, yeah, it was. 

1212
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:57,720
It was challenging, but you 
know, the first few weeks you 

1213
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,960
were like, what, what, what, 
what can I do to make this 

1214
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,680
better? 
But there's nothing you can do. 

1215
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:09,080
You know, you just have to be 
patient and, and you know, let 

1216
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:11,280
them come round at their own 
pace. 

1217
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:13,920
There's no point forcing it. 
There's no point, you know, you 

1218
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:16,520
know, shoving your head in a 
crate and trying to engage with 

1219
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:19,040
her because she wasn't at that 
point yet. 

1220
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:22,480
That would just stress her out. 
So we just leave food down for 

1221
01:12:22,480 --> 01:12:24,600
her. 
She'd leave the door open, she'd

1222
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:28,680
go out, come back in again, but 
just very, very little. 

1223
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:32,120
Like if she wanted to interact 
with us, then she came to us 

1224
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:33,440
rather than the other way 
around. 

1225
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:35,720
So. 
Yeah, the way it should be with 

1226
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,800
all dogs, really. 
Yeah, yeah, 100%. 

1227
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:41,640
Not just rescues. 
Not all dogs want you in their 

1228
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:45,160
face like, you know, getting 
your face near them and and 

1229
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:47,960
that's, that's, you know, that's
that again, a very human way to 

1230
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:50,640
interact sometimes. 
Yeah, well this is The thing is 

1231
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:53,680
human centric. 
I've realised that in my own 

1232
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:56,920
journey that I've I've always 
been a dog lover, but it's only 

1233
01:12:57,080 --> 01:13:02,040
I think the last 3-4 years where
I realised, oh, the way I've 

1234
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:04,680
been loving dogs have been about
me. 

1235
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:07,640
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1236
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:08,440
True. 
Yeah. 

1237
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:12,120
And so, yeah, that shift 
happens, and it's like, whoa, 

1238
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:16,280
make it go back. 
Yeah, make the switch, turn 

1239
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:19,400
back, you know, because, yeah, 
once you see, you can't Unsee. 

1240
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:22,240
And it's everywhere. 
Yeah, yeah, it's true 

1241
01:13:22,480 --> 01:13:24,880
everywhere. 
But yeah, I think ultimately the

1242
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:28,680
important thing is, and This is 
why the podcast exists, it's 

1243
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:32,240
about having these discussions, 
having an understanding, having 

1244
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:35,440
an understanding of whether or 
not the experience I'm having 

1245
01:13:35,440 --> 01:13:40,080
and things I'm observing are 
central to me or other people 

1246
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:42,200
are seeing and noticing similar 
things. 

1247
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:45,080
And then, you know, potentially,
hopefully one day getting to a 

1248
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:49,200
point where I have enough of an 
understanding of the landscape 

1249
01:13:50,440 --> 01:13:55,040
to then I guess understand what 
needs to be done or what can be 

1250
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:58,680
done or where to start to make a
big impact. 

1251
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:01,080
Not a big impact because 
sometimes you don't need a big 

1252
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:03,440
impact to make a change or make 
a difference. 

1253
01:14:03,440 --> 01:14:07,880
But I guess what I'm trying to 
say is like under understand the

1254
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:11,600
landscape, what can be done and 
how I can be most useful. 

1255
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:13,920
You're being most useful right 
now. 

1256
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:17,400
You're being most useful. 
You know, you are fostering. 

1257
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:20,080
You are making a huge 
difference. 

1258
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:25,760
It's the scale of the problem, 
yeah, but that makes it feel. 

1259
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:28,360
You can't look at the scale 
because you'll get overwhelmed 

1260
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:29,600
by it. 
Yeah. 

1261
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:32,640
I can't remember the exact 
quote, but something along the 

1262
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:37,280
lines of how you can't make a 
difference to every dog, but 

1263
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:39,320
you'll make a difference to the 
dog that you foster or 

1264
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:42,000
something. 
Some I can't remember, but it's,

1265
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:46,120
it's very much like you can be 
overwhelmed by the scale of the 

1266
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:48,880
issue. 
You know, just do what you can 

1267
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:52,280
make a difference in, in those 
small ways each day. 

1268
01:14:52,440 --> 01:14:55,600
You know, you're fostering. 
I foster all the other amazing 

1269
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:58,560
people that foster, foster dogs,
foster children that put 

1270
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:02,680
themselves out there and, and 
you know, go on that journey. 

1271
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:06,240
You, you are making a difference
to that child, to that dog, to 

1272
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:09,400
that cat, whatever you do. 
So, you know, that's the thing, 

1273
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:11,400
isn't it? 
If everybody did a little bit, 

1274
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:14,600
it would be a phenomenal 
groundswell of change. 

1275
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:17,920
Yeah, and it's possible. 
That yourself, you, you, you can

1276
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:20,080
only do what you can do, and 
that's enough. 

1277
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:24,280
Yes, I have to keep telling 
myself, but I'm hoping to get to

1278
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:27,000
a point where it will be 
scalable. 

1279
01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:29,600
Well, let me know. 
That's what I'm working towards,

1280
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:32,200
a scalable solution. 
I don't know what it looks like 

1281
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:33,680
yet, but I'm hoping I'll get 
there. 

1282
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:36,360
Keep me, keep me in touch. 
We're building an army. 

1283
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:41,040
Yes, well, that's what it takes.
Yeah, I think so. 

1284
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:42,760
I think it's the ripple effect, 
isn't it? 

1285
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:46,000
Like the small changes, shifts 
in thinking? 

1286
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:50,040
Because really what you're up 
against isn't individuals, it's 

1287
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:52,920
a system. 
It's a way of thinking, it's a 

1288
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:56,600
way of operating in the world. 
And so if you want different 

1289
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:58,520
results, you have to change the 
system. 

1290
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:03,000
But when that system is 
synonymous with identity and 

1291
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:08,560
people A struggled to look at 
themselves and be donor, 

1292
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:13,240
identify in certain ways, like 
there's that disconnect between 

1293
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:16,160
who they are and how they behave
and, you know, all that kind of 

1294
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:18,240
stuff. 
Like, yeah, I mean, it's just so

1295
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:20,120
complex. 
That's for another day. 

1296
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:24,560
I'll just park it right here. 
But this conversation has been 

1297
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:28,040
super interesting for me and 
insightful. 

1298
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:30,440
Thank you so much. 
And I've really enjoyed having a

1299
01:16:30,440 --> 01:16:34,240
chat with you. 
And hopefully, who knows, maybe 

1300
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:38,120
one day we can get you back on 
how is how is China doing, by 

1301
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:39,000
the way? 
Just fine. 

1302
01:16:39,440 --> 01:16:41,480
Yeah, she's crushed out in her 
bed at the moment. 

1303
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:45,680
We did the the 6K run this 
morning so she's 6. 

1304
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:48,800
K. 
Yeah, yeah, so she comes, comes 

1305
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:52,240
back has a breakfast. 
OK he's a little bit bonkers and

1306
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:58,400
then like absolutely crashes out
just there completely sparko 

1307
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:02,720
until around 12/1 and they let 
get let out again. 

1308
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:05,400
So yeah, well-being, very well 
behaved and quiet. 

1309
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:07,560
I haven't had a delivery. 
That was one of my things. 

1310
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:09,880
I was thinking if I get a 
delivery, they're all going to 

1311
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:12,520
go start barking. 
But luckily I we managed to get 

1312
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:14,920
through it without that so that.
'D be really good. 

1313
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:15,600
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1314
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:18,840
Amazing Internet connection. 
No. 

1315
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:21,360
Computers have crashed, dogs 
haven't barked. 

1316
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:24,040
I think the universe has 
conspired to make sure that this

1317
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:25,720
happened. 
The stars have aligned. 

1318
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:28,080
Amazing. 
Exactly. 

1319
01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:30,160
Well, Lisa, thank you so much 
for coming on. 

1320
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:33,760
I hope you have a lovely rest of
your day and weekend. 

1321
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:37,200
Yes and yeah. 
I'll chat with you again soon 

1322
01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:38,040
all. 
Right. 

1323
01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:40,000
Thanks very much for having me. 
Cheers. 

1324
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:41,960
See you, Lisa. 
Bye.