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Hello and welcome to Just a Dog 
Podcast. 

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I'm so happy to have you here. 
Thank you. 

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Thank you very much for having 
me. 

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Joining me today is Elena 
Marquis. 

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The creative falls behind 
Portic, a unique fine art dog 

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photography business here in 
London. 

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What fascinates me about Elena's
work is how she's created 

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something that goes far beyond 
traditional pet photography. 

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She treats every dog as a living
masterpiece while simultaneously

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using her art to advocate for 
animal welfare, particularly 

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Sight Hound Rescue. 
Elena has this wonderful 

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philosophy that dog is arts, and
she's currently working on an 

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ambitious project photographing 
adopted greyhounds and Golgo 

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across London boroughs. 
What I'm particularly interested

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in is exploring with Elena how 
art can change the way that we 

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see dogs, and what her lens 
reveals about our relationships 

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with these animals that we claim
to love. 

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It was such a nice introduction,
thank you. 

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My pleasure, You know what, I 
remember maybe two or three 

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years ago I stumbled upon you on
Instagram and I was just 

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mesmerised by your photographs. 
I love how beautiful, how 

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elegant and also how clutter 
free they are that there doesn't

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seem to be much distracting you 
from the subject which is 

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usually these most beautiful 
majestic animals. 

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How did you get into photography
and why specifically choose to 

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photo? 
I so I studied photography at 

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university and it wasn't 
actually photography, it was 

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photography and digital imaging.
So it was more about the 

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scientific part of it, as in 
testing lens systems and sensors

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and forensic photography, 
digital devices in general, 

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printers, scanners and anything 
that creates a digital image. 

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But I did move to London 
specifically when I was 19 

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because I want to study 
photography because my dad was a

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amateur photographer. 
So when I was 15, he we started 

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like going around and taking 
pictures, got my first camera, 

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started using his film camera. 
And obviously at the time what I

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had to, I was 15. 
I couldn't really go anywhere on

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my own, so we used to take 
pictures of landscapes and our 

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pets. 
We had four dogs and three cats 

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at the time, so I was practising
on them and I really fell in 

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love with the process of 
printing when I was at uni and I

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decided to make that my career. 
And when I graduated I went 

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straight on to working for a 
fine art printing company in 

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London where we created wall art
for galleries, hotels, interior 

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designers and photographers. 
So after five years there we 

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obviously had many pet 
photographers as clients and I 

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loved, loved looking at the 
pictures and printing them big. 

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And I actually realised only 
then that pet photography was a 

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thing. 
So because in Italy, where I'm 

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from definitely isn't, you will 
never spend that money on your 

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dog or on your cat. 
And I started looking into the 

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labs clients to get portraits of
my cat to have on my walls. 

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But I'm very, I'm very specific 
about interior design and what 

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goes on the walls, especially 
since that's my background wall 

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art. 
So I couldn't find one that I 

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really liked so that I would 
have up on my wall. 

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So I decided to give it a try. 
And ultimately, I really enjoyed

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taking pictures of my parents 
dogs and in the process of 

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giving it a try. 
You know, when you, you start 

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photography and you specialise 
in the sense type of 

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photography, you try and work 
out what your style is because 

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you there's the same subject in 
the photograph by 10 

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photographers in 10 completely 
different ways. 

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So I was trying to work out what
my style was. 

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And I noticed that when I was 
editing the pictures, I was like

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desaturating them more and more 
and more because they just 

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looked wrong to me. 
So I just ended up with this 

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black and white picture and I 
was like, I can't build a 

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business on black and white 
only. 

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And then I just thought maybe I 
can, why not? 

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And I decided to give it a try. 
And people liked it. 

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Surprisingly. 
When you think when you leave a 

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job that you really love to set 
up your own business, that is 

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quite different to have that 
freedom because setting up your 

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business in India and you're in 
control of everything. 

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If you don't do what you really 
love, it's pretty pointless. 

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I might as well just go back to 
my 9:00 to 5:00 job altogether, 

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which is easier, safer, and I 
still love it. 

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So if I can't do, I just decided
to go for what I love to do and 

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just go for it. 
And if people didn't like it, 

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they didn't like it, and that 
was fine. 

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And luckily, they did. 
They loved it. 

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They did. 
For now, they're liking it. 

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Yeah, I think, I think that 
they're almost like collector's 

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pieces. 
They because they are. 

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I was telling people that I'm 
going to be interviewing you 

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today and I don't really refer 
to you as a photographer, even 

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though you do take photographs. 
I see you as an artist, and I 

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know that those two words can be
used interchangeably, but I'm 

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leading more towards the fine 
art side I guess. 

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Well, that's my perception of 
the work that you create, 

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because it is just so stunningly
beautiful. 

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I completely agree with you. 
They are art and there's 

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something about their eyes, 
there's something about the 

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texture of their fur, there's 
something about the shape of 

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their paws. 
Like all of it together is just 

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absolutely beautiful. 
So yeah, what an amazing job you

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have to be able to capture those
things, those moments and those 

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elements pretty much every day. 
So you don't have a dog at the 

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moment, but if you could have 
your own dog aside from 

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fostering, because you just told
me that you were about to start 

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fostering tomorrow. 
Do you have a favourite breed? 

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Well I shouldn't say this 
because I have clients but I 

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actually do. 
As you you might have guessed 

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this greyhound. 
I actually did try and adopt one

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for about a year, I think it was
2017 or 16 and I was sadly 

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rejected by 6 different 
charities because of all sorts 

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of reasons, some most of them I 
didn't agree with at the time. 

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Such as I had stairs going up my
flat and greyhounds don't do 

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stairs, or at least they don't 
know them. 

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They've never. 
Most of them are new. 

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Like everything of our everyday 
life is completely new to them 

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because they've just seen, you 
know, the crate or the kennel 

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and the racing track and that's 
all they're familiar with that 

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They haven't seen any other dog.
But I think that's not really 

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that big of a caveat to adoption
because I lived in central 

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London at the time. 
I lived in Vauxhall and for them

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it was too busy and a greyhound 
would get spooked because I was 

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renting because I was working 
full time. 

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So all these different reasons. 
And at the time I remember I was

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so sad and I thought I could 
never get one while living in 

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London. 
So I got my 2 cats. 

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But this, the fostering is 
mostly hopefully a way to lead 

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up to then a greyhounds because 
I don't want to throw them my 

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cats. 
I've never seen a dog before. 

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They're indoor cats and I have 
to test them with dogs 

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obviously, because the main 
thing with greyhounds is they 

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can't. 
The cat cannot run away. 

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If they slap them, it's fine if 
they, you know, stand on the 

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ground, it's fine. 
If they run. 

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Even a dog, a greyhound, they is
considered cat friendly. 

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We'll probably see chase them 
because they have that strong 

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instinct. 
They have been trained to do 

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that for so many years. 
So I was looking for a way of 

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introducing them to dogs and 
getting them used to them and I 

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thought short term fostering and
from a charity that I know has 

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many small dogs would be the 
best starting points. 

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And they've been absolutely 
amazing because they've given me

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as a first foster a puppy which 
is very easy to introduce to 

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cats because they're very 
submissive and only a threat to 

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the cat. 
So they can be a bit more 

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chilled and hopefully slowly 
getting them used to other 

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animals and and dogs to them at 
some point. 

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Adopt the greyhound. 
I really hope that it will 

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happen for you. 
I know that feeling because, 

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yeah, it's been years that I've 
wanted to have my own dogs, but 

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flat living is not, at least 
where I was living before. 

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It wasn't really conducive for 
dogs purely because it wasn't 

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really allowed on my lease 
anyway, which made things a 

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little bit tricky. 
But I think things are changing 

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in that area now. 
I think many landlords are 

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becoming more open to their 
tenants having dogs, so that's 

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positive I guess. 
So many people have dogs 

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nowadays. 
So many So your photography 

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sessions, how do you normally 
deal with it? 

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If you have a client whose dog 
is a bit nervous, how how would 

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you normally deal with that To 
reassure them or to create a 

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safe space for them? 
I would normally, so I would 

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have before any session, before 
the client, even books, I would 

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have a consultation call with 
them just to make sure that 

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we're on the same page, that I 
have all the information that I 

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need. 
We talk about what they want out

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of the session, what the dog is 
like, and most importantly, if 

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they are scared of anything. 
And well, if they have any 

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triggers, if they have any, if 
they're reactive at all. 

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And so that would give me some 
very important information on 

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the day that sometimes I'd get 
asked not to wear a Black Hat if

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a dog is reactive to people 
wearing a Black Hat or not to 

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make certain noises, not to make
certain moves. 

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But what I do with any dog, 
whether they are nervous or 

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reactive, when I first meet them
for the shoot, I just completely

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ignore them, not look at them. 
I just go and talk to the owners

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and prepare them for it. 
It's like, I don't hate your 

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dog. 
I just, it's not personal. 

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I I really do want to cuddle all
of them. 

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But just just bear in mind, 
just, yeah, just be aware that I

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will come straight to you 
without looking at your dog. 

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And that will really gives the 
dog some space and puts them in 

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a position where they can decide
whether they want to interact 

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with you or not. 
And it also if they're, if they 

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aren't shy and they do like to 
interact to say hi to everybody 

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and they used to everybody 
saying hi to them. 

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That puts you in the in, in a 
position where they get curious 

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people like why are you not 
giving me attention? 

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And they are more likely to look
at you while you're taking the 

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pictures and find you 
interesting instead of being 

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like OK I said hi I don't care 
about you anymore. 

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Yeah. 
And if the dog, when we start 

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shooting, if the dog is still 
nervous, I always tend to work 

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at the pace of the dog. 
We obviously make sure that we 

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find the location there is 
suitable for them, so if they 

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are scared of traffic or noises 
or scooters, we don't go to 

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central London or we do, but we 
always do sunrise on weekends 

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where there is not a soul 
around, which is so beautiful. 

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Yes, I've seen, I've seen. 
I'm trying to remember that 

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bridge near Saint Paul's. 
The beautiful view in the. 

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Back the Millennium Bridge. 
Millennium Bridge, That's it. 

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Yeah. 
I saw that you were off that 

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sunrise, and it's just. 
Yeah, I can't imagine. 

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That must be quite spooky as 
well, not having a single soul 

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on that bridge. 
It is. 

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I do get, I do get a bit worried
sometimes when I like carrying a

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camera and it's 5:00 AM and 
there's nobody around or like 

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no, no one can hear anything. 
But there's always, there are 

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always like people and runners 
at any time. 

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It's just incredible. 
And then going back to the, to 

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the shoots, obviously going to 
the face of the dog is very 

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important and reading the body 
language is very important. 

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Whether they manifest any signs 
of distress, where if they're 

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unsure, I always make sure I 
keep that monitored and I adjust

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myself and give instructions to 
the owners as well because the 

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owners are also anxious before 
the shoot. 

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Most of the time it's like this 
performance anxiety that we all 

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have where you have the most 
perfectly behaved dog and you 

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really want them to pose well 
and you think that your dog has 

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to sit perfectly. 
They have to can actually be a 

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model like a human model, but 
they don't have to be. 

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So you already arrive with that 
kind of expectation from your 

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dog. 
And if they do not perform, you 

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can get nervous because I think,
oh, I'm messing this up, but 

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that's just so not the case. 
And I always, I know that in my 

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pictures the dogs look like they
can hold a pause perfectly, but 

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most of the time it's just me 
shooting so many pictures at 

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once until that pose I want, it 
happens and then we can move on.

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00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,800
Their body language is also very
important. 

226
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,560
Just giving them the space that 
they need and see what works for

227
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,800
them. 
If we try something that makes 

228
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,840
them feel uncomfortable, a 
certain pose or on a certain 

229
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,640
spot, even on the bridge, we're 
just going to move, adapt, leave

230
00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,560
them some space, leave them 
alone. 

231
00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:01,080
If they're very nervous, I might
just ask them the owners to just

232
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,440
keep them in the leads, sit 
still and wait for the dog to 

233
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,680
look around. 
Simply look around because they 

234
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,040
know how to be a dog, so if you 
don't ask them anything, that's 

235
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,280
when they actually give you 
probably the best poses, 

236
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:19,360
especially if they're nervous. 
And what do you think it is that

237
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,400
it says about your clients that 
they are willing to, you know, 

238
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,360
pay for these amazing 
photographs of their dogs? 

239
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,360
What do you think it 
communicates with regards to the

240
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,200
importance of the dog in their? 
Life. 

241
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:37,600
Well, it clearly does say what 
the priorities are. 

242
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,760
Not saying that if you don't pay
for a photo shoot for your dog, 

243
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,080
your dog is not the centre of 
your words. 

244
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,280
Because I think it's, it's a lot
about what people value. 

245
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:54,880
And in the same way, I would 
never buy a designer bag because

246
00:15:54,880 --> 00:16:01,120
I don't really care, but I would
spend double the money for a, 

247
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,240
for a frame for my home or for 
something different that I 

248
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,560
really value. 
So I don't necessarily think 

249
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,360
that that indicates that they 
care a lot about their dog. 

250
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:18,480
It obviously does, but I think 
it does mean it does show that 

251
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:25,440
they are not afraid to show it. 
If you make sense. 

252
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,640
Most of my clients do get wall 
out to go on the walls at the 

253
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,960
end of the session and that kind
of shows it does. 

254
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,160
Having it especially, especially
if it's something big. 

255
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:40,680
I had like A2 metre frame done 
and a choice of showing it to 

256
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,600
everybody and having it hanging 
on the wall. 

257
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,680
I think it, it does say that 
they do love their dogs a bit 

258
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:53,520
and they do love a certain part 
of my a certain aspect of my job

259
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:59,120
or of my work or art in general.
And they're just not afraid to 

260
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:04,599
show it to whoever visits them 
or shouting on social media or 

261
00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:09,720
just say, yes, I do love my dog 
and I think my dog is a work of 

262
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,560
art. 
And I am not ashamed, I think. 

263
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,160
What do you note about your 
clients and their relationships 

264
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,280
with their dogs during a shoot? 
You were saying before how 

265
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,000
sometimes a client can maybe be 
a little bit nervous because a 

266
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,880
dog is another sentient being. 
It's not like you can control it

267
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,280
and it's not like they speak 
human and we speak dog, et 

268
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,400
cetera. 
But in that relationship, when, 

269
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,200
you know, you get a bit nervous 
or you get a bit anxious, what, 

270
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,800
what does that relationship look
like sometimes? 

271
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,320
Do do clients tend to just go 
quiet? 

272
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:47,760
Do they defer to your expertise?
Or, you know, what happens in 

273
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,760
those moments, I guess, when 
they're not getting the results 

274
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:56,760
that they're hoping for. 
So sometimes they can get 

275
00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:01,480
frustrated and they become a bit
more firm with a dog, which is 

276
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:06,160
something I always try to stop. 
And it's actually the opposite. 

277
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,520
They stop listening to me when 
they're nervous. 

278
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,600
So if I ask them to do something
or to hold the pose and maybe 

279
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:18,400
hold and treat someone I have in
a certain position, they if they

280
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,720
see that the dog is not giving 
them what they expect them, what

281
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:27,000
to give or to do at the on the 
moment, they would just try 

282
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:28,840
something else. 
They would just try everything 

283
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:33,600
they can to make that happen 
without listening to what I'm 

284
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:35,960
saying. 
And then we just need to bring 

285
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,520
attention back to the whole 
experience and try and try in 

286
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,880
different way. 
That's that's also quite an 

287
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:49,320
important part of the job 
actually to manage the humans so

288
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,840
that they don't get stressed and
pass the stress on to the dog. 

289
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:57,240
Because the dogs can sense that.
And the more you, if they they 

290
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:01,320
refuse to do something that is 
fairly easy because they never 

291
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:05,240
give very specific or very 
difficult instructions that only

292
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,720
a very well trained dog could 
do. 

293
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,560
If they can't, it means there's 
something, not something wrong, 

294
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,200
but it means that something 
needs changing and giving them 

295
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:20,840
more jobs is not going to work. 
It's just going to confuse them,

296
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,480
overwhelm them, and they're just
going to stop working for us all

297
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,440
together. 
Yeah, actually you just reminded

298
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,360
me. 
I was speaking to a psychologist

299
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:32,400
the other day and she was 
telling me that when people tend

300
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:37,560
to be nervous or anxious or kind
of like quite tense in a, in a 

301
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,160
given moment, a stressful 
situation, for example, 

302
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,240
apparently the frontal lobe of 
the brain stops working, it 

303
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,600
shuts down. 
So, yeah, so, so I think 

304
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,240
sometimes that kind of would 
explain why they would get more 

305
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,680
firm. 
It's, it's interesting to me 

306
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,920
that that would be a default 
behaviour, behaviour, the 

307
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,760
firmness, as opposed to perhaps 
the the complete opposite way. 

308
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,360
How do you get the results that 
you're looking for, the desired 

309
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:10,320
behaviour in a way where you can
be sure that your dog is 

310
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,080
listening to your needs and can 
deliver on that? 

311
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,360
It's very, very hard to stay in 
control, isn't it? 

312
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:21,480
So it's really cool. 
It is especially, especially if 

313
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,640
they get firmer and the dog is 
just like, I'm not, I'm not 

314
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,200
going to do it. 
It's just not going to do it. 

315
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,960
In those situations, it's it's 
just best to reset. 

316
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,040
So yeah, greyhounds are a whole 
different story. 

317
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,960
Yeah, greyhounds don't do what 
they don't want to do, right? 

318
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,240
Greyhounds is they're they're 
more like cats than dogs to be 

319
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:47,440
honest. 
I think the most the best, at 

320
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,960
least what I do and what I think
is the best. 

321
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:51,840
Then obviously different, 
different photographers and 

322
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,960
behaviours do different things. 
But for me it's just change, 

323
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,240
reset, completely changed the 
scene without letting them know 

324
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,640
it's not working. 
You just say OK, let's move on. 

325
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,400
We just move to a different 
spot, try something different, 

326
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,720
let the dog have a little walk 
up and down, have a sniff, let 

327
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:16,680
them decompress a little and 
start again afresh, completely 

328
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:18,200
forgetting what we were trying 
to do. 

329
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,400
We're not doing If it's not 
working, we're not doing it. 

330
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,120
That's it's as simple as that. 
There's there are no set rules 

331
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:28,200
that I don't try. 
I never try and and get a very 

332
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:33,880
specific shot and and try and 
try until it's done. 

333
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:35,280
If it doesn't work, it doesn't 
work. 

334
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:40,560
And we find a new one that can 
depending on the on the dog. 

335
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,560
How long do your photo sessions 
usually last? 

336
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,040
Are they quite different one to 
the next? 

337
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:53,160
Usually the standard ones 
between one and two hours, 

338
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,640
simply depending again on the 
dog. 

339
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:01,560
When when a dog is done, they're
done and they they make it very 

340
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,440
clear when they're done. 
They did not have a very long 

341
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:08,920
attention span. 
It feels like you see them. 

342
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:13,360
They can probably run for three 
or four hours and not be tired, 

343
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:20,000
but having to focus on us or on 
the their owner to sit or look 

344
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,680
this way or look that way is 
like a lot of concentration 

345
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,440
involved. 
And usually after an hour they, 

346
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,120
they just make it very clear 
that they don't want to, that 

347
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:31,840
they're done the board, they 
want to go home, they want to go

348
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,280
run. 
And when that happens, they can 

349
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,120
just go and run and probably 
sleep for the rest of the day. 

350
00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:40,320
That's usually what happens 
after a session is so tired 

351
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,960
emotionally. 
They just. 

352
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,920
Leave. 
These humans are so confusing. 

353
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,640
What do they want from me? 
And I said this is a very weird 

354
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,440
walk we're on right now. 
Exactly, exactly. 

355
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,440
So I've noticed that a lot of 
your photographs have the most 

356
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,120
incredible backdrop of 
historical buildings in London. 

357
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,080
Why is that? 
Gosh, I'm not sure. 

358
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,680
I don't necessarily want them to
shout London. 

359
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:16,360
I don't think it's more about 
the the architecture of London 

360
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:20,640
is so interesting and so 
beautiful and the heritage as 

361
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:21,800
well. 
It's so incredible. 

362
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,600
There are so many spots and so 
many different locations I go 

363
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,800
to. 
That to me is is more about the 

364
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:39,000
form and the texture and the 
light as opposed to if this is 

365
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:45,760
London in a in an obvious way, 
it's not something that I do. 

366
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,240
I try and do. 
Locations are usually selected 

367
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:57,200
because they work in terms of 
lines and shadows and as I said,

368
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:05,280
textures and they do draw the 
attention to the dog, even if 

369
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,000
you don't know where they are. 
It happens to be. 

370
00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:16,480
I think they they do scream 
London because London is so 

371
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:22,640
there is so much variety and 
they do still give that 

372
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,320
atmosphere that for who lives in
London. 

373
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:31,400
We don't know what that feels 
like and what having a dog. 

374
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,880
I mean, I don't really know what
having a dog in London it feels 

375
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,720
like because I don't have one. 
But going around with dogs and 

376
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:48,000
living your life in London with 
your dog day, we all know what 

377
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:53,720
what that feels like. 
And Londoners don't often go to 

378
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,160
the touristic places either. 
They wouldn't go to see 

379
00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,880
Buckingham Palace. 
I don't remember the last time 

380
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:01,600
I've been to Covent Garden, for 
example. 

381
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,400
But those little details I feel,
and those buildings do. 

382
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:13,520
You make us all feel at home and
you know where we spend a life 

383
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,880
and every day, with or without a
dog. 

384
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:17,760
Yeah. 
As well. 

385
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:21,720
I agree. 
I used to live in London. 

386
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,240
I lived in East London in. 
How could you? 

387
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,280
Leave Do. 
You know what? 

388
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:32,120
I ask myself that all the time. 
From the moment I left London, I

389
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:35,240
missed London. 
And so every single time I go 

390
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,280
back yesterday I went to London,
for example, I just, I, it 

391
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,800
always reminds me of that Oscar 
Wilde quote where he says if 

392
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,640
you're tired of London, you're 
tired of life. 

393
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,680
I love going to London. 
So but having a dog in London, I

394
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,520
imagine will be really 
difficult. 

395
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,400
And I know that plenty of people
do have them anyway. 

396
00:25:55,440 --> 00:26:01,880
But you know, there are not that
many green spaces around for 

397
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,080
wide open, you know, free 
running. 

398
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,760
I think in East London there's a
couple of places. 

399
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,000
I think in West London there's a
couple of places. 

400
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,480
But people tend to go to the 
same places for their dogs 

401
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,760
because it's not easy to just 
quickly drive to the countryside

402
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:22,080
and then back again every single
day, maybe twice a day going to 

403
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,240
the Greyhounds and the Galgos. 
What started your interest in 

404
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,240
these dogs? 
It has been. 

405
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,000
I'm always not. 
Greyhounds, I can't remember 

406
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:40,040
exactly when it started, but 
when I decided I was ready to 

407
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,960
get a dog, for some reason I 
fell in love with them. 

408
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:48,200
And I actually thought, and it 
was very naive that I, I thought

409
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,760
I could get a puppy. 
And my parents had an Italian 

410
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,360
greyhound and at the time they 
still have her. 

411
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,440
She's, she's still there. 
She's quite old, but she's still

412
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,440
there. 
And I started researching and I,

413
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,040
I found out that there are no 
puppies because all the puppies 

414
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:08,040
are racist. 
So then I, I started digging 

415
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,600
into it and I opened the Pandora
box. 

416
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,720
They used to be the dogs that 
would make me turn on the 

417
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,680
streets all the time. 
I don't know what it is about 

418
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,640
them. 
So gentle, so quiet. 

419
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,280
They have this presence and at 
the same time they look so sad. 

420
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:33,160
Quite many people say they have 
this, this walk that it's, it's 

421
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:42,880
more resembles a horse in a way.
And I started learning and 

422
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:49,080
reading and I came across what 
happens in the racing industry 

423
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,040
and I started to try and adopt 
1. 

424
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,040
So that actually opened even 
more doors and more boxes. 

425
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,960
Yeah. 
And really the adoption process 

426
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:07,720
made me, I'm not going to lie, 
very angry with the whole system

427
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:16,000
and adoption in, in the UK 
mainly, which is why I did, I 

428
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,840
started trying to find out if 
there was a way to adopt one 

429
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,160
from abroad. 
And I know that there are many 

430
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,000
dog owners that have gotten a 
dog from abroad, not just 

431
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,480
greyhounds, but all sorts of 
breeds. 

432
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:39,200
And I, I did as a protest, I did
a charity project in I think 

433
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,320
four years ago for Underdog 
International, which, oh, 

434
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:47,480
they're so, so good. 
They and they do rehome dogs 

435
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:55,480
from mainly I think is Romania, 
Greece, Cyprus, I think some 

436
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,400
from Spain. 
And they have this beautiful 

437
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:07,400
educational programme for kids 
as well to teach them about dogs

438
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,920
and empathy and other, you know,
bleeding beans. 

439
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,760
They're very, very good. 
And what I found about them is 

440
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:19,440
that they do re home happily in 
London in flats where whether 

441
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,240
you have children, cats, other 
dogs, whether you work full 

442
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:27,600
time, part time, whether you're 
in urban or residential like 

443
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,920
busy areas. 
So I did, I want to do this 

444
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,960
project because I want to show 
that it's actually possible to 

445
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,760
have a rescue dog if you live in
a busy area of London. 

446
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,320
And I went around and 
photographed 60 rescue dogs in 

447
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,440
60 days in their homes in 
London. 

448
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,640
And most of them were from 
Underdog and most of them were 

449
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:56,680
in flats in like all families 
that had the same 

450
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,920
characteristics that I had. 
So I'm very grateful for what 

451
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:09,440
Greyhounds kind of brought to my
work, my, my, even my life, even

452
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,080
if I don't have one. 
I mean, just learning about all 

453
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,680
these things and just giving you
a, a reason to investigate. 

454
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,800
And it's a different type of 
awareness, but I think that it's

455
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,680
still thanks to to them in a 
way. 

456
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,680
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 
I understand that because once 

457
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,880
you lift the the the lid on 
these things, it's an absolute 

458
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,120
minefield. 
And I think unless you have an 

459
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:39,040
interest in any of the kind of 
issues that dogs face on a daily

460
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:44,040
basis, you would just go about 
your life completely oblivious 

461
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:50,160
to the issues that they face, in
particular with greyhound. 

462
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,000
So I live near Brighton and 
there is still a race track in 

463
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,840
Brighton and I went there a 
couple of months ago with my 

464
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,960
camera and I went to interview 
people and. 

465
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,400
How did that go? 
Actually, let me let me start 

466
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,400
with a catalyst for that. 
So I used to do these interviews

467
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,000
where I would just kind of walk 
up to the general public walking

468
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,480
their dogs along the sea front 
and I would just ask them 

469
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,560
questions about their dog. 
And there was one man who had a 

470
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,520
greyhound and the greyhound 
stood there and its leg was 

471
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,840
shaking like this. 
And I'd never seen that before. 

472
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,480
So I asked him. 
I said, Oh, you know what's 

473
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,160
going on with his leg? 
And and he was telling me, oh, 

474
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:36,840
the, you know, the dog is an ex 
racing dog, but they've 

475
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,880
nicknamed it the his Elvis move 
or some, some something to that.

476
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,520
And so then he was telling me 
how he has another greyhound 

477
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:51,040
who's still racing. 
And in my mind I was like, sip 

478
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,160
what, like this doesn't make 
sense. 

479
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,080
Why would you rescue a greyhound
but then also have a greyhound 

480
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,560
racing. 
And he said no, no, no, no, no, 

481
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,920
you're mistaken. 
I didn't rescue the greyhound. 

482
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:08,840
The greyhound, yes, because the 
greyhound was a working dog and 

483
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,440
it's no longer a working dog. 
It's not rescued. 

484
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:16,960
It retired. 
And so I don't know, I just, I 

485
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,200
felt really conflicted. 
And then I also realised I don't

486
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,920
know anything I don't like. 
How can I have an opinion on 

487
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,560
anything? 
How can I feel this conflict if 

488
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,920
I don't actually understand what
I'm feeling the conflict for? 

489
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,200
So yeah, I went to go have a 
look at the dogs there and the 

490
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,520
environment that they stay in 
when they're up for a rehoming 

491
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,720
and spoke to the caretaker 
there. 

492
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,520
And then also went in to go 
watch the greyhounds racing, 

493
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,800
which again, felt really 
conflicting because you're 

494
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,800
sitting there and although you 
don't pay for a ticket to go 

495
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,280
there, you kind of look around 
and you you're just like, why is

496
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,680
this happening? 
So I sat really, really close to

497
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,760
the boxes basically where they 
kind of like, I guess shoot the 

498
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:07,400
gun or whatever, and they like 
release the dogs and, and, and I

499
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,240
found it quite distressing how 
they would pick the dogs up and 

500
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,400
then shove them into this box. 
And then all of a sudden, yeah, 

501
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,880
the box would open and they'd 
just be running down the track. 

502
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,800
So Long story short, I learned 
so much from those interviews. 

503
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,600
And I learned that basically 
it's they're all syndicates. 

504
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:30,600
People invest a lot of money 
into these dogs, but it's not 

505
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,440
like one person owns always 
responsible for one dog. 

506
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:39,840
Obviously that can happen, but I
learned there are large groups 

507
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,160
who own a small percentage of a 
dog. 

508
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,800
Multiple owners paying for the 
vet's bills, paying for the 

509
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,760
transportation, paying for the 
trainers, paying for all of 

510
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:56,560
those things, hydrotherapy. 
But then if the dog wins, they 

511
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,840
split all of the money. 
Yeah, so. 

512
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:01,960
It's yeah, so. 
And if they don't win? 

513
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:07,400
And if they don't win, well, I 
was told at the time that they 

514
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,679
lose more often than not. 
So these people just do it for 

515
00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:15,920
the joy of racing and community 
and all that kind of stuff. 

516
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,159
So I still, for me, it's still 
very hard to connect the dots 

517
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:22,280
and understand why this is 
actually happening. 

518
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,960
But I also understand the 
perspective of, you know, these 

519
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,080
these dogs love running. 
And so around a racetrack, it's 

520
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,560
more safe considering it's not 
in the woods or the forest where

521
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,120
maybe they can break a leg over 
a piece of wood or a stick or a 

522
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:38,639
hole in the ground, that kind of
thing. 

523
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:43,600
So I get that. 
But then given that sense of 

524
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,320
purpose where they just run, run
and run and run and run until 

525
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,880
they're tired. 
And there was another thing that

526
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:57,320
was really interesting, how 
these people, I feel connect or 

527
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,840
attach these experiences to 
their childhood. 

528
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,240
So it's something that happened 
when they were growing up. 

529
00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:08,400
So their sense of, oh, when I 
was a child, my parents used to 

530
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,400
take me here and this is what we
used to do. 

531
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,320
So they have a very happy memory
attached to the experience. 

532
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,720
And stopping racing means taking
away a core memory for them in 

533
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:25,160
some ways. 
So in those I'm completely 

534
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,200
against, greyhound racing, or 
pretty much most if not all 

535
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,280
forms of entertainment where 
animals are used especially for 

536
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,600
profit, completely draw a very, 
very hard line. 

537
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,480
But at the same time, I can 
understand why these things 

538
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,600
continue. 
It's very similar. 

539
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,240
I was having a conversation with
a friend the other day. 

540
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,240
They went to Morocco and they 
paid to ride camels because the 

541
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:52,240
kids really wanted to. 
And I was, yeah, appalled. 

542
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,480
I was like, how can you do that?
They walk around all day and 

543
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:56,960
they got these wires on their 
face. 

544
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,960
And it's just, it's not, it's 
not good. 

545
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,400
And that's how the cycle 
continues, because people attach

546
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,160
happy memories to these 
experiences. 

547
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,960
And it's also, it's also about 
education, I guess, because I 

548
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,800
was one of the kids that was put
on a camel by my parents when I 

549
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,680
was when I was like 5, because 
it was just you don't know 

550
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,720
what's happening. 
And even with greyhound racing, 

551
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:21,680
I had some friends that were 
saying, Oh yeah, my dad used to 

552
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,680
take me to those. 
And I was like, are you, are you

553
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,840
kidding? 
I was like, no, it was like, you

554
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,960
don't know what happens to the 
dogs. 

555
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:35,160
And to be to be fair, obviously 
things have changed in the past,

556
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:40,160
I think decades where because 
there were so much more 

557
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,800
awareness raise about 
greyhounds. 

558
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:48,480
It was a big, big thing. 
I think of in the, at the 

559
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,680
beginning of the 20th century or
during the 20th century anyway, 

560
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:59,200
and until the early 70s and, and
then obviously animal protection

561
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,960
group started coming in and 
trying to raise awareness and 

562
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:10,680
protest about the, the whole 
racing industry, which is where 

563
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:17,320
some new measures were put in 
place and more controls and in 

564
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,000
general more rules for the 
welfare of the dogs. 

565
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,920
Which doesn't still, still 
doesn't make it right or 

566
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,280
acceptable. 
Because if you, if you think 

567
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,800
about it, these dogs are a 
commodity. 

568
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,200
They are bred. 
They were brought into these 

569
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:42,600
words to have for a purpose to 
run and win money. 

570
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,520
And if they don't, they are 
discarded. 

571
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,480
So they are brought to this work
thinking we try if it doesn't 

572
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,200
work, we can just give them away
or utilise them or what's that 

573
00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:58,360
is literally if it doesn't work,
we're going to have another 

574
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,280
litter and then another litter 
and then another litter. 

575
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,160
And 1 can be good is they're 
just disposable. 

576
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,640
And that just puts a strain on 
yeah, you retire then you give 

577
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,720
them to a kennel. 
These kennels are by volunteers.

578
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:17,640
They have so many dogs every 
year and most many of the dogs 

579
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,040
that they receive have long term
health issues as well. 

580
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,080
If they haven't broken a leg 
before, if they haven't been 

581
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,480
euthanized because of an injury.
And you know, racers, trainers 

582
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:33,080
didn't want to pay for the 
surgery or the treatment or and 

583
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,640
even even if they do win and 
they don't get discarded because

584
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:41,120
they're not fast enough, their 
racing life is still up to four 

585
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:46,560
years old. 
So they get bred to last four 

586
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,720
years and then given up, which 
is just so wrong. 

587
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:56,600
It's just that the reason why 
they are brought up is this and 

588
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,760
it's just so wrong for me. 
Obviously for me, and I do agree

589
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,400
on the rescue over they retired,
but I do understand why they say

590
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,680
retired because some of them, 
some trainers apparently are 

591
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,800
actually quite nice. 
They do care about the dogs, but

592
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,880
there is still this like 
recycling dogs over and over 

593
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,520
again just because they bring 
happiness to someone and they 

594
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,440
will have a nice memory of their
childhood. 

595
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,080
Yeah. 
Is that especially for such a 

596
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,440
such an animal loving country? 
I don't. 

597
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,960
I just don't understand it. 
And what happens in Spain is a 

598
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,520
whole different story. 
We'll probably get there. 

599
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,960
We will get to Spain, we will 
get to Spain. 

600
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,320
But yeah, going to the 
greyhounds, I think, yeah, the 

601
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,480
core memory, I see the reason 
why this continues. 

602
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:48,760
And also a lot of people have 
been passed down the idea that a

603
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:53,720
dog is just a dog. 
So in the pecking order between 

604
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:59,040
humans and animals, humans 
obviously come first and a dog 

605
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,680
is an animal. 
So they maybe come last or 

606
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:06,400
later, further along the line. 
So in many cases they are 

607
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,640
treated less than. 
But on the flip side, just to be

608
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,160
fair and have a balanced 
perspective, there are people 

609
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,520
who adore their dogs who still 
raise them. 

610
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,160
And there are dogs who really 
enjoy racing. 

611
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:24,040
It's just really hard to know 
when when it's when these things

612
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:28,320
happen in an I don't even know 
if there is a way to say in an 

613
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,800
honourable way or with the best 
intentions. 

614
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,880
It's really hard to know and and
it's very hard to also tar 

615
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,040
everyone with the same brush. 
But in general I do. 

616
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,480
Yeah, I do agree with you. 
It just shouldn't be happening. 

617
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,000
And dogs should not be recycled 
because it strips them of their 

618
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,600
uniqueness as individual dogs 
and kind of just groups them 

619
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,160
together as, oh OK, you know, 
racing dog. 

620
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,480
Yeah, always fast. 
They were. 

621
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,240
They were born to run. 
Yeah, they have bills. 

622
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,360
Yeah, to run for speed. 
That's what they're built for. 

623
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,440
Every breed, everybody has their
purpose. 

624
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:13,960
It's just the the number of 
greyhounds that get recycled and

625
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:19,160
they get on on the track and 
they get injured and you just 

626
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:24,080
got to move on to the next one. 
It's they they do. 

627
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:32,560
I understand racing, running 
after flash, doing fine, living 

628
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:37,120
your life in a crate without 
having they are more socialised 

629
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,360
humans because they do have 
antlets, so they are used to 

630
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:45,280
humans and but not knowing any 
other breed, any other species, 

631
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:50,040
not having, they don't really 
have a happy dog life, pet life.

632
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,560
It's just you're here until you 
have to train or run and then 

633
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,720
you go back into your box and 
then you train and run again and

634
00:41:57,720 --> 00:42:01,440
then you go back into your box. 
And there's so, so many of them 

635
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,680
with exceptions obviously, as we
said. 

636
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:10,080
But I bet that I haven't spoken 
to any of them, but I bet that 

637
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:14,720
those trainers and owners that 
do have greyhounds as their pets

638
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:18,240
and raise them don't really mind
too much if they lose or win. 

639
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:24,280
They probably won't get rid of 
them if they lose I assume and I

640
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:32,400
hope if it's if they are a pet. 
Yeah, I hope so. 

641
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,440
But I don't know about enough 
about it. 

642
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:36,880
Yeah, I know. 
This is, this is the thing, 

643
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,560
isn't it? 
There's so many different 

644
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,400
surfaces to scratch. 
Because there. 

645
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,440
Are so many different breeds and
other other dogs have issues 

646
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,240
too. 
You've got labradors, you know, 

647
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,720
in the hunting world. 
Just a few weeks ago I went to 

648
00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:52,560
the Gum Dog challenge and I 
witnessed quite a few 

649
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:58,160
distressing things and I thought
to myself, wow, like everywhere 

650
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:02,240
you go there's an element of 
cruelty to these animals. 

651
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,640
And in that particular case, it 
was bring dog. 

652
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:10,040
Dog was just making those noises
out of excitement and they were 

653
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,920
smacked in the face basically 
because these types of dogs get 

654
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,440
disqualified if they make a 
noise before the gun goes off 

655
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,680
and they go search for these 
these items so these I think 

656
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,800
they're called flares. 
I'm not sure, but anyways, 

657
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:29,080
everywhere I go and everywhere I
look I see something that kind 

658
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:33,560
of is not as one would hope it 
would be, but I also. 

659
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,840
See that as. 
Systemic. 

660
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:40,200
It's very much systemic. 
Like people don't even bat an 

661
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,000
eyelid. 
It's so normal. 

662
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,560
And so it takes people like US 
kind of looking from the outside

663
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,920
in to say, wait a minute, this, 
this doesn't seem right. 

664
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:55,040
But too often we hear back, oh, 
it's just a dog or it's a 

665
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,000
working dog. 
What do you expect? 

666
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,000
You know, that kind of thing. 
And it's just like, no, it 

667
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,680
shouldn't. 
It shouldn't be that way. 

668
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,920
Surely not. 
But these things there are 

669
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,960
there. 
There is progress being made, 

670
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,080
slowly but surely. 
Yeah, always true. 

671
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:12,640
Small wins. 
Exactly. 

672
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,920
So moving on to the Galgos, I 
mean it's like 1 grim thing to 

673
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:21,320
another, but these are realities
and these dogs are experiencing 

674
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:26,760
a certain lifestyle or life that
is maybe depending on your 

675
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,880
perspective, but from my 
perspective, certainly less than

676
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,200
they deserve. 
So I became aware of Galgos 

677
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:38,520
because of your Instagram page. 
And I remember that day actually

678
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:43,000
doing some research because I 
was like, Galgos, what's a 

679
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:44,840
galgo? 
I had no idea. 

680
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:49,480
And so I had a look and then I 
realised, oh, it's a breed more 

681
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,720
commonly known in Spain. 
And then I went down the rabbit 

682
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:56,800
hole and it got very grim very 
quickly. 

683
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,320
And what you'll? 
Find Yeah. 

684
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,160
I cried my eyes out and it got 
to a point where I ended up 

685
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,160
calling a friend of mine who is 
married to a Spaniard because I 

686
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,440
was just, I needed answers. 
I was like, how is this 

687
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,520
happening? 
And she actually said to me, you

688
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,480
know, take a break from social 
media because you're too 

689
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,880
attached to this. 
Yeah. 

690
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,400
She was like, she was like, I'll
find out. 

691
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,800
I'll ask. 
And he didn't know very much 

692
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,720
about what goes on because 
apparently, again, it's very 

693
00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:29,640
different culturally from the 
north of Spain to the South of 

694
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,840
Spain. 
Yeah, it's mostly the South, 

695
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,440
yeah. 
For those, just for those people

696
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:39,000
who may or may not know anything
about Galgos, as I didn't, what 

697
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,040
do you know about Galgos that 
you would like more people to 

698
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,800
know? 
So I had the same, I had like a 

699
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:51,040
similar conversation a few times
actually when talking about the 

700
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,160
projects. 
And I was like, Oh yeah, 

701
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,400
greyhound and galgos and some, 
even some friends were like, Oh 

702
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,840
yeah, greyhounds like galgos are
just studied just race like the 

703
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:01,880
greyhounds. 
And I was like, no, no, no, no, 

704
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,480
no. 
And no, no, no, that's not the 

705
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,200
case. 
That's not the case at all. 

706
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,200
So Galgos are also called 
Spanish greyhounds and are a 

707
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:15,640
breed of hunting dogs. 
And as greyhounds, one of the 

708
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:22,240
most ancient breeds and they 
they used to be at the time same

709
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:27,440
as greyhounds, they used to be 
reserved for royalty and noble 

710
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:32,040
families and who had lands 
happened until I think the 19th 

711
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:37,560
century. 
And even like no, not everyone 

712
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,200
could have one. 
They were quite special dogs and

713
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:48,400
killing one would be considered 
as bad as killing a person. 

714
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,120
And you see now what, what, how,
how the situation has changed. 

715
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:58,080
So at the moment there are the 
use for hunting in Spain, 

716
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:04,240
hunting as a sport, not hunting 
for to actual to actually get 

717
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,000
like food food. 
Or. 

718
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,000
Resources. 
It's an actual like competitive 

719
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:16,200
sport and in Spain you can like 
hunt in I think 80% of the of 

720
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:21,040
the land there is like this. 
They can hunt essentially 

721
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,960
anywhere and it's not regulated 
at all. 

722
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:29,600
Most hunters aren't registered 
nor licenced. 

723
00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:34,360
I was reading about it and I 
watched a documentary which is 

724
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,200
beautiful and I can give you the
link for it. 

725
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:38,520
Beautiful. 
It will make you crying because 

726
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,880
it will, but it's very 
informative. 

727
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:47,400
There's like only 2% of the 
hunters are actually licenced 

728
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:53,680
and registered and most of the 
licences are issues to or quite 

729
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:58,360
few to disabled people because 
they just do it for the numbers 

730
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,680
and to keep it going and to keep
the funds going. 

731
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,280
Because if there are still 
hunted, there will still be 

732
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,920
lands to hunt on to hunt on. 
But most of them aren't 

733
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,400
registered and gal goes being 
working. 

734
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:13,680
Dogs are not protected by the 
Spanish law as other dogs are 

735
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:18,920
and as other animals are. 
So most of these the owners that

736
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,560
are called galgeras do sometimes
have other dogs as their pets 

737
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:28,840
and they keep them in the home, 
but not the gal goes off with 

738
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:33,880
them just considered as objects 
and they are bred. 

739
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:40,760
They breed so many of them again
to to get the fastest 1. 

740
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:45,880
It's such a eradicate is is 
eradicated in the culture, in 

741
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,720
the rural and like village 
culture that for them having a 

742
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:54,000
winning dog is, is just an 
honour isn't they don't even 

743
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:59,000
make money out of them. 
It's more about the, the glory 

744
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,840
of having the winning Gallagher.
So they do breed them. 

745
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,120
They have litters and when they 
have litters they have like 8 

746
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:09,240
puppies and see if there is one 
that's that's fast enough. 

747
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:15,680
And the difference between the 
greyhounds and the gun goes is 

748
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:22,360
that once they're not useful, if
or they're not fast enough or 

749
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:24,680
they don't perform, they don't 
win. 

750
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:30,480
They get disposed of in the most
horrible ways. 

751
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:36,640
If they're lucky, they can be, 
they are given handed into a 

752
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:44,280
rescue or to kennel who however 
you know, if they are, well, we 

753
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:49,360
get there, but they can be 
handed in less lucky, but still 

754
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,360
lucky. 
I think they get shot and killed

755
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,200
on the spot and buried and 
that's the end of their life. 

756
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,520
Even from young age when, when 
they just decide that they're 

757
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,880
not, they're not going to be as 
fast as they need them to be and

758
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:12,160
they stab them, burn them. 
Most of them are, are hung and 

759
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:13,800
they just, they just killed that
way. 

760
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:18,840
I have a friend who is from 
Sevilla, which is, is the area 

761
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,280
where the South of Spain where a
lot of this happens. 

762
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,680
And she was saying she, she's 
also vegan. 

763
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,760
So she, she kind of knows a lot 
about everything that's actually

764
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,120
she has like she's quite 
informed, well informed. 

765
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,280
She used to go around the 
countryside around Sevilla and 

766
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:43,600
find them hang by trees and you 
even find fields where they just

767
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,560
get the killing fields. 
They just you just they're just 

768
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:54,840
covered in bones of galgos. 
Sometimes they just tie them to 

769
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:59,560
trees or in caves and just let 
them starve to death or 

770
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:03,880
abandoned them, which is how 
most of them get found and 

771
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:05,120
rescue. 
They just find them on the 

772
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:09,960
streets and they can be a run 
over or when they do get 

773
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:16,480
abandoned, they get beaten up 
and and or abandoned in a in a 

774
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,240
land that they don't know so 
that they cannot come home. 

775
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:21,440
So they're very difficult to 
catch. 

776
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,320
Also for that reason, because 
they have been taught to fear 

777
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:31,360
humans and they're very shy. 
They're so gentle and so 

778
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:36,240
beautiful and most of them have 
been they they are, they have 

779
00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:40,160
been quite traumatised because 
they're not really kept very 

780
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,360
well in general unless they're 
witness. 

781
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:48,520
If they're winners, they might 
have a couple of years of life 

782
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,400
victory. 
I'm not sure how long they 

783
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,520
raised them for, but they are 
very they recycle them very, 

784
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:58,480
very quickly. 
And it's it's just so sad that 

785
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,560
no one, no one does anything 
about it. 

786
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:06,160
I mean, there are obviously 
groups and charities and they're

787
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:11,360
trying to change the law, but as
I talk to Spanish friends, they 

788
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:15,880
all know about it. 
Yeah, but this is the thing I 

789
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,960
I've I've always and again, you 
don't want to kind of generalise

790
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,400
or stereotype of my perception 
because I have lots of Spanish 

791
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,080
friends is that they really, 
really forward thinking, very 

792
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,480
open minded people. 
Some of the most well educated 

793
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:34,840
people I know are Spanish. 
So yeah. 

794
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:36,920
Ohh, gosh, it's so hard, isn't 
it? 

795
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,920
It's so hard tying the. 
You don't want to make everybody

796
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,440
sad. 
No, you don't want to do that, 

797
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:48,080
but at the same time, it's kind 
of like reverse engineering and 

798
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,080
understanding the psychology 
behind it. 

799
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,000
Why is it happening? 
Why does it continue to happen? 

800
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,920
They know what's going on right 
in their backyard, but things 

801
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,120
are taking a long time to 
change. 

802
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,000
So anyways, without dwelling on 
that too much, I think like the 

803
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,080
important thing is if anyone's 
listening to this, maybe do your

804
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:11,680
own research and inform yourself
because it is quite horrific and

805
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:16,720
go into it really, you know, 
full well knowing that you will 

806
00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:18,320
see things that you don't want 
to see. 

807
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:26,560
So your project came about as a 
result of what you learnt about 

808
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,680
the galgos and greyhounds and 
site hounds in general. 

809
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,320
What do you hope to achieve with
your project? 

810
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:39,600
So because we just said that 
obviously it's quite difficult 

811
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:44,520
to, to hear about these things 
and to talk about these things 

812
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:49,000
and to see, because there are 
some very horrific pictures out 

813
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:53,400
there and to raise awareness. 
You, I, I feel like if you show 

814
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:57,040
you something as you show those 
images, people are going to turn

815
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,800
away. 
My, my mum did, my mum was like,

816
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,080
oh, this beautiful greyhound, 
this beautiful documentary I'm 

817
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:03,120
watching. 
And it's like, I don't want to 

818
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,800
watch it. 
I don't want to see. 

819
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,840
And I did like, I didn't have 
trouble sleeping after like for 

820
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:15,680
a few days after that. 
The book is in a is a different 

821
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,320
way of it's something that I 
hope people will want to look at

822
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:27,280
and we'll portray these dogs in 
a still deliver the message, but

823
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:32,320
make it something that people 
might want to share, look by 

824
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,600
instead of turning away and 
looking at a photograph of a 

825
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:39,480
mistreated dog and never look at
it again. 

826
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:45,800
And I was so happy to see that 
even with the pictures that I 

827
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,080
posted on social media recently,
with the sessions that we've 

828
00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:53,560
we've done so far that have been
shared by so many and so many 

829
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,480
comments. 
And that just makes me so happy.

830
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:03,280
That is something that will help
others share what's happening 

831
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:07,080
without making anyone 
uncomfortable. 

832
00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:13,440
And we're also obviously galgo 
wise Greyhound pictures aren't 

833
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:21,680
as stressing in terms of like 
injuries and what they go 

834
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:27,440
through, but we're hoping to to 
show that these dogs aren't 

835
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,160
commodities, they aren't 
disposable. 

836
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:33,640
And they are beautiful, these 
Beautiful Creatures. 

837
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:38,880
They're gentle, they're regal. 
They were considered regal at 

838
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:42,280
the time. 
They, they in ancient Egypt, 

839
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:46,440
they, they were just like almost
divine creatures. 

840
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:51,320
And now we're just treating them
like objects. 

841
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:54,160
So they've gone from one extreme
to the other. 

842
00:55:54,280 --> 00:56:02,560
And we're hoping to try to show 
them and portray them as the 

843
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:06,120
other extreme as they were 
actually like as part of their 

844
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:11,360
past and they are part of the 
big of the big picture. 

845
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:15,680
And we're obviously using 
London's beautiful locations 

846
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:20,480
wherever they are. 
I just tried and find the most 

847
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:25,760
beautiful ones and the most 
majestic ones because I think 

848
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:31,400
they deserve to to stand on them
and to be on the pedestal again 

849
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:35,960
and showing at the same time 
that these dogs can also thrive 

850
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:40,200
in urban environments and even 
in busy cities like London. 

851
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:47,400
Something I hear a lot from 
friends or from who those who 

852
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,360
don't know greyhounds very much 
just say when I say I want to 

853
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,440
adopt A greyhound, but they need
a lot do don't have a garden. 

854
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:55,240
They need a lot of space, they 
need to run. 

855
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:57,880
And like that's actually the 
opposite. 

856
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:02,640
They're called the 45 miles an 
hour couch potatoes because they

857
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,560
they do sleep. 
That's why I also said I also 

858
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:06,760
said they're more similar to 
cats. 

859
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:08,960
They can they do sleep 20 hours 
a day. 

860
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,560
They are made for sprints as 
opposed to galgos. 

861
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:13,600
They are more like for endurance
because they're supposed to 

862
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:17,120
chase hairs for a long time, 
actual hair. 

863
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:23,880
And they are actually the breed 
that is more suited to live in a

864
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,560
flat because they just want to 
sleep. 

865
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:31,080
They can't. 
They want soft surfaces because 

866
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:33,520
they have such just thin skin 
and it's still Bony. 

867
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:37,560
And then we're made in this very
they have this very awkward 

868
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:39,960
bodies. 
They don't even lie down. 

869
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:45,280
Most of them properly 
greyhounds, so don't even want 

870
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:49,640
to sleep on the floor. 
They can't even sit like on when

871
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:53,200
I have photo shoots with 
greyhounds, I am never asking if

872
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:54,720
they can sit because they 
weren't. 

873
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,560
I'm never asking if they can lay
down because I know that they're

874
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,880
going to lie down only on soft 
beds. 

875
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:02,560
They're never going to lie down 
on concrete. 

876
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,640
So even even showing, showing 
them in the different 

877
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:16,280
environment that isn't rural or 
like huge spaces, countryside 

878
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:21,560
parks, we try and show them in 
urban spaces and always as still

879
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:29,720
as possible as a contrast to the
history of running and racing 

880
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,160
and hunting. 
We just want to have them as 

881
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:40,320
part of the scene, almost as 
sculptures, if that, if that, if

882
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:42,200
the images do convey that, I'm 
not sure. 

883
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:45,200
I still have more. 
I still have to take more than 

884
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:48,440
half of them. 
But it's just, there was someone

885
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:54,440
that commented recently that the
dog looked like, looked like a 

886
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:59,000
mystical creature in the, in the
city in King's Cross. 

887
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,400
And I was like, yes, that's what
we're trying to do, yes. 

888
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:06,040
Yes, they look otherworldly. 
They do look like statues, these

889
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:08,640
monuments of these majestic 
creatures. 

890
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:13,400
And I just think it's absolutely
fascinating how you slowing down

891
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:19,600
to create art with these 
beautiful dogs has the ability 

892
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:23,440
to change perspectives because 
like you were saying before, you

893
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:28,360
know, like it's too distressing 
to see anything other than their

894
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:30,240
beauty, right? 
Especially if you call yourself 

895
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:33,640
a dog lover, You, you kind of 
like you. 

896
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:38,640
You know that all these untoward
things are bubbling at the 

897
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:40,080
surface. 
You know that they're there. 

898
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:43,000
But because you have this deep 
love for these creatures, you 

899
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:44,720
just can't see it. 
You can't look at it. 

900
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:46,120
You don't want to be exposed to 
it. 

901
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,920
It physically hurts to see. 
Things it does. 

902
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,160
See these creatures hurt. 
It's it's awful. 

903
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:59,520
How do you, in this process, 
stay soft around the edges? 

904
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:04,960
Because seeing this type of 
treatment of dogs specifically 

905
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:10,880
has the ability to make a person
quite cynical and perhaps a 

906
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,960
little bit bitter. 
How do you keep the softness 

907
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:20,720
around your edges? 
I hope I'm keeping it. 

908
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:26,240
I think that's also why I love 
working with dogs so much. 

909
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:33,120
It was incredible to see how 
many greyhound owners, galgo 

910
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:38,640
owners, even dog owners or even 
people who don't have a dog were

911
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:44,880
happy to jump in and help. 
And they shared, they donated 

912
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:47,200
and they tried everything they 
read. 

913
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:52,960
They just tried to learn more 
about them and it has been quite

914
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:57,960
difficult knowing what's 
happening with the dogs and also

915
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:03,560
with the projects, trying to get
permits and trying to get 

916
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:12,600
different sites to help us raise
funds and make the project, you 

917
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:16,080
know, bring the project to life.
And there have been very tough 

918
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:20,760
moments, I have to say where I, 
I have, I thought I'm just not 

919
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:23,280
going to go through with this 
because it's been so difficult 

920
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:27,760
and nobody cares. 
And then you receive those 

921
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:33,040
messages and those emails and 
those calls from complete 

922
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:35,720
strangers that offer that are 
offering to help. 

923
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:42,000
And that just gives you that 
hope and reassurance. 

924
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:48,360
And it's, it's just what makes 
you want to keep going because 

925
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:52,000
those are actually the people 
that you need to reach in the 

926
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:56,360
end. 
And what we're doing, or at 

927
01:01:56,360 --> 01:02:00,440
least what I do, is, is for 
those people and, and try and 

928
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:04,320
cut out the noise as much as as 
much as possible and accept that

929
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:09,800
you can be. 
No one's ever going to, Not 

930
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:12,640
everyone is going to agree with 
you on anything. 

931
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,680
And there is always going to be 
some ugliness in the world. 

932
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:18,440
But there are so many people 
that are silently trying to 

933
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:21,080
change things. 
And that makes me so grateful 

934
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:24,120
and so happy. 
In general, what we see around 

935
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:28,240
and what I've seen with this 
project has been absolutely 

936
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:31,200
amazing. 
That's wonderful. 

937
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:33,760
Yeah. 
It is reassuring to know that 

938
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:36,000
humans have this great capacity 
for change. 

939
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:39,560
And I think that that remains at
the back of my mind because 

940
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:43,240
there were times where and 
potentially still and will 

941
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:47,000
continue to be moments where I 
will be ignorant and I wouldn't 

942
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:50,840
know that I'm being ignorant. 
You know, there's so much to 

943
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:52,520
learn about so many different 
things. 

944
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:56,240
So I think it's really important
to like try, I guess, and show 

945
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,520
compassion or kindness in the 
moments where it's the most 

946
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:05,040
difficult to. 
But I think your book, I think 

947
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:07,520
we would, we'd be, we keep 
talking about your project, but 

948
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:09,720
we haven't actually mentioned 
what it is. 

949
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,480
Probably not. 
Probably not. 

950
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:19,520
No so, so please tell us. 
Well, it's a it's a book. 

951
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:25,040
It's a fine art photography book
and titled working title. 

952
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:28,760
Actually, I think Greyhounds and
Gal Goes of London. 

953
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:32,560
I am thinking of changing it to 
something like the site London 

954
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:37,360
Silent Hounds, just because of 
the idea that not many people 

955
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,560
know about them and they're just
like so quiet and just move 

956
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:45,760
around town with like all this 
baggage and nobody knows about 

957
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:48,280
them or about what's happening 
to them. 

958
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,480
Definitely Galgos. 
Not very few people know. 

959
01:03:52,880 --> 01:04:00,120
And we are taking portraits of 
greyhounds and galgos around 

960
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:03,600
London. 
Adopted and one that hadn't been

961
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:07,600
adopted yet, but he now has. 
He was adopted the day after the

962
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:13,800
photo shoot to try and show, as 
we said, try and raise awareness

963
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,920
and also raise funds for Project
Galgo. 

964
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:22,160
She's such a wonderful charity 
that rehomes, rehabilitate and 

965
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:29,520
educate about and these dogs 
from Spain, hunting Spanish, 

966
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:33,880
hunting dogs in general and also
Salukis from Brain and just so 

967
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:38,280
wonderful. 
They take them in into their 

968
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:41,920
care, they transfer them to the 
UK into foster homes and their 

969
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:44,880
fining homes. 
So all the models have 

970
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:51,280
participated with the pay the 
participation fee that has gone 

971
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:57,640
to the charity and the proceeds 
from the book would also go to 

972
01:04:57,640 --> 01:04:59,520
the charity. 
So we're trying to raise 

973
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:06,720
awareness and also help dogs as 
fast, as quickly as we can in 

974
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:10,320
the meantime. 
Yeah, well, and it has been so 

975
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:13,360
much fun, I have to say. 
It was. 

976
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:16,520
Just it was also a great excuse 
to just spend as much time with 

977
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:20,280
greyhounds as possible. 
I don't blame you, they're 

978
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:22,200
amazing creatures. 
I cannot have my own one, but I 

979
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:24,400
can hang out with them. 
Say again. 

980
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:28,240
They are. 
I'm trying, I'm actually trying 

981
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:34,040
to like depict them as this 
beautiful, elegant creatures and

982
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:37,120
they are, but they're not at the
same time. 

983
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:40,760
They're just like very quirky 
and weird and sometimes it looks

984
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:42,320
like they don't know how to be a
dog. 

985
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:45,000
It's just, they're just so 
funny. 

986
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:47,000
They really are. 
They're funny. 

987
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:49,520
Little huge dogs. 
It's so, so gentle. 

988
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:53,760
Yeah. 
Next one, next book wouldn't do 

989
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:57,200
the quirky one well. 
That's really, really good offer

990
01:05:57,200 --> 01:05:59,320
another contrast. 
I really think that you I 

991
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:02,000
haven't seen the book yet. 
I've seen some photos that 

992
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,600
you've posted. 
But yeah, I'm really looking 

993
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:07,840
forward to the book. 
And if anybody wants to, you 

994
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:12,480
know, help spread the news with 
regards to your project or help 

995
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:15,600
put a pledge in, they can find 
your project where. 

996
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:21,480
So my project at the moment is 
on my website and we have a 

997
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:27,640
Kickstarter to help us with the 
permits the photography permits.

998
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:36,000
That ends on the 8th of July 
though and if anyone wants to 

999
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:40,880
help they can put a pledge in 
for pre-order, a book for 

1000
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:44,960
example or a book, a calendar 
and a print. 

1001
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:49,480
Or just make a general donation 
if they don't want to to have a 

1002
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:51,840
book or anything and I just want
to help out. 

1003
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:55,880
Just a small 5 pounds 10 lbs 
donation really goes a long way.

1004
01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:01,800
Mostly they can access it from 
from my website that explains 

1005
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:03,640
everything about the project as 
well. 

1006
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:08,320
Or even just helping. 
It would be very very helpful to

1007
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:14,360
just simply make a donation to 
one of the many Greyhounds and 

1008
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:20,240
Galaga charity around. 
I myself sponsor a gal go in 

1009
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:25,640
Spain and it's literally just 
£1010.00 a month and that does 

1010
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:31,720
really help them a lot I hope. 
But in theory it does help them 

1011
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:33,520
a lot. 
Just with that bills, buying 

1012
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:40,200
food, just looking after the 
day-to-day of of every dog they 

1013
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:45,120
have over 300 I believe in their
care and there are so many more 

1014
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:48,560
shelters, so that's also a way 
of helping. 

1015
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:53,360
Yeah. 
And when after the book it's 

1016
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:56,680
published, will people be able 
to buy it separately, maybe from

1017
01:07:56,680 --> 01:08:03,160
your website or somewhere? 
Else they will and I'm not sure 

1018
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,560
where it's going to be. 
Yeah, and definitely from my 

1019
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:08,560
website. 
I was thinking of trying putting

1020
01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:15,800
it on Amazon as well, but I I 
haven't figured that out just 

1021
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:18,200
yet. 
But they can definitely, they 

1022
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:22,080
can definitely purchase a book 
if they if they want to once 

1023
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:27,399
it's released on the 1st of 
February, which is World's 

1024
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:32,279
Galligo Day, which marks the end
of the hunting season in Spain. 

1025
01:08:32,279 --> 01:08:37,399
So on this specific day, it's 
when they start getting rid of 

1026
01:08:37,399 --> 01:08:40,479
all the hunting dogs because the
hunting season is closed and 

1027
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:45,600
they don't need them anymore. 
So it's like this and like 

1028
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:49,720
shelters are completely full and
they found dogs are found 

1029
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:51,600
everywhere in the most horrible 
conditions. 

1030
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:55,200
So we're aiming to release the 
book then if everything goes 

1031
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:59,240
well, sooner if we can. 
But that's I think that's the 

1032
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:03,720
latest date and you'll see, 
especially on social medias, 

1033
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:09,399
there'll be full of posts about 
the day everywhere, The 

1034
01:09:09,399 --> 01:09:14,240
distressing 1 I think. 
Yeah, I remember this year that 

1035
01:09:14,319 --> 01:09:16,640
it kind of caught me off guard a
little bit. 

1036
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:20,520
So had a visceral reaction, 
somewhat like your mum. 

1037
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:25,000
So. 
So I guess do you have anyone in

1038
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:28,479
the media interested or are you 
in touch with anyone in the 

1039
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:32,479
media who can, who can kind of 
help raise awareness via your 

1040
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:37,359
book? 
Sadly not. 

1041
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:41,960
I am going to try and get a 
press release out as soon as is 

1042
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:45,560
as soon as the book is released 
because I did try when I was 

1043
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:48,000
looking for models but it wasn't
very successful. 

1044
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:54,520
I would also need a celebrity 
slash authority for the forward 

1045
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:59,560
of the book. 
So if I do manage to get someone

1046
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:03,560
that could really help, you 
know, getting more eyeballs on 

1047
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:06,640
the on the project. 
I have a couple of names in 

1048
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:10,000
mind, I just need to find a way 
to reach them because they are 

1049
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:14,160
not easy to reach tell. 
Me. 

1050
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:21,840
Well, we have the we have the 
patron of the charity, which 

1051
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:24,720
should be quite easy, which is 
neat. 

1052
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:30,760
Cave as London and dog supporter
and also I am a big fan. 

1053
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:39,120
Ricky Gervais is on the list. 
Twiggy is also on the list. 

1054
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:44,120
Greyhound supporter she is OK, I
was looking at all the greyhound

1055
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:46,840
supporters and I think she is, 
she's a sponsor of the Summoner 

1056
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:49,840
but that that's she's probably 
last on on the list. 

1057
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:53,440
Oh gosh, I can't remember the 
last name. 

1058
01:10:53,440 --> 01:11:00,800
I'm sorry. 
I do have Ricky Gervais as as a 

1059
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:04,480
tenth because I also because he 
lives in London and I know he 

1060
01:11:04,480 --> 01:11:09,280
has spoken about greyhounds 
before and he's a huge animal 

1061
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:12,160
charity and dog lover and 
supporter. 

1062
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:17,200
So we'll see. 
And also it will be lots of 

1063
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:20,240
eyeballs on the project if that 
had to happen. 

1064
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:23,160
Yeah, well, fingers and toes 
crossed for you. 

1065
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:25,960
There's a few, there's a few 
more names, but I'll start. 

1066
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:28,320
I'll start from those and see 
see how that goes. 

1067
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:31,800
Well, I'll write it myself in 
the end, and we'll call it a 

1068
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,520
day. 
Yeah, well, this is the thing. 

1069
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:36,880
You have to speak them into the 
universe, right? 

1070
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:40,040
You never know who's listening. 
This is the thing. 

1071
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:44,480
So if anyone is interested in 
helping Elena with her project, 

1072
01:11:44,480 --> 01:11:47,280
please get in touch. 
What is your website and we're. 

1073
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:59,000
Www.obviously portique.com 
Portique, which is PAWTIQE not 

1074
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:04,160
you in Portique that's usually 
misspelling and contact name on 

1075
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:10,800
the same name for socials. 
And I do reply usually I'm quite

1076
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:11,800
quick at replying. 
Come on. 

1077
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:20,520
If anyone has questions or just 
wants to reach out just social 

1078
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:24,440
direct message can do or just 
emails if anyone's interested 

1079
01:12:24,440 --> 01:12:28,760
and wants to help or wants more 
information or be pointed that 

1080
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:35,120
point in the right direction. 
I will include links, you know, 

1081
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:39,920
to your social media and to your
project on Kickstarter and to 

1082
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:44,800
your website. 
And my final question for you, 

1083
01:12:45,480 --> 01:12:47,600
what do you think we can learn 
from dogs? 

1084
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:52,200
From dogs. 
Well, what, what I have learned 

1085
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:57,120
from dogs personally, I know 
that compassion and you know, 

1086
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:01,600
unconditional love are some of 
the, the things that we all 

1087
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:06,040
learn from dogs. 
And, and something that we, we 

1088
01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:11,680
do talk about a lot from a 
personal level, what I've 

1089
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:21,480
learned not from dogs, but from 
working with dogs is patience. 

1090
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:28,080
It's, it's the one skill I think
that you need as a dog 

1091
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:30,560
photographer. 
And he's something that we all 

1092
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:36,160
need in our everyday life. 
And that's what I've learned 

1093
01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:38,960
from dogs in order to 
communicate with them and to 

1094
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:42,600
keep them happy and to just slow
down. 

1095
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:47,840
And in any area of life, but 
specifically, specifically when 

1096
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:53,280
working with the dog, learning 
to slow down in order to read 

1097
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:59,200
them and give them space without
expecting anything from them in 

1098
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:04,240
particular. 
It's it's something that has 

1099
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:09,200
really changed my approach to 
everyday life, I think. 

1100
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:17,080
And it's something that we can 
all apply to humans, dogs 

1101
01:14:17,440 --> 01:14:22,320
ourselves, and definitely 
something that has come from the

1102
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:27,200
dogs because it's it's just 
necessary and just let it be. 

1103
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:29,520
Let it be. 
Exactly. 

1104
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:31,320
Yeah. 
I think they help keep us 

1105
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:35,160
present in a moment, teach us 
patience, and just in general, 

1106
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:38,840
slowing down. 
I agree with you, Lena. 

1107
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:42,520
I want you to know I'm so 
grateful for you taking the time

1108
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:45,720
and taking a chance on this 
podcast, spending an hour and a 

1109
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:49,000
bit with me. 
I really appreciate it, and I 

1110
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:50,720
appreciate everything that you 
do. 

1111
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:55,000
Keep going and I look forward to
following your journey online. 

1112
01:14:57,240 --> 01:14:58,360
Thank you very much.