1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,480 Sally Muir and Joanna Osborne met 40 years ago because they 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,160 both owned knitting machines. Sally's brother introduced them. 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,320 They didn't know each other, and yet they started a business 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,720 together anyway. A year later, Princess Diana was 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:15,760 photographed wearing one of their jumpers. 6 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,960 They're still not entirely sure how it reached her, but 40 years 7 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,040 on, they've wound the knitwear down. 8 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,160 But they're still working together. 9 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,200 Sally paints dogs and Joanna makes ceramic dogs and every 10 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,520 other May they fill Joanna's house in Brighton with the work 11 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,200 of some of the most interesting dog artists in the country and 12 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,560 open the doors to anyone who wants to come in. 13 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,800 This is a short bonus episode. My guest today is Sally Muir, 14 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:46,040 1/2 of Muir and Osbourne and one of the UK's best known painters 15 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,240 of dogs. We talk about what a painter 16 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,640 sees when she looks at a dog, why Gal goes keep pulling her 17 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,360 back to Spain and why the Brighton Dog Show, which opens 18 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,400 on the 2nd of May, is worth a weekend of your time. 19 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,280 Welcome to Just a Dog Podcast. I'm your host, Nadine. 20 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:08,160 Let's begin. Sally, I'm so happy to have you 21 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,360 on the podcast. Thank you so much for joining 22 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,760 me. I usually start by asking my 23 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,040 guests, did you have dogs when you were growing up and how did 24 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,840 your love for dogs begin? Yes, we always had dogs when I 25 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,760 was a child. My parents before I was born had 26 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:29,120 standard poodles and then from poodles we moved on to Afghan 27 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,120 homes and 70s. Absolutely bonkers. 28 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,000 Very, very beautiful, quite dim, very untrainable. 29 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,280 They were kind of wild. And then my parents moved on to 30 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,080 cats for some reason. So then I'd left home and I got 31 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,240 my own dog. When Joe and I first started our 32 00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:50,440 business, knitting business, and I got Fanny from Bassey Dog's 33 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,920 home, we had a rescue greyhound who somebody I was at art school 34 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,920 with had found going through her bins and she brought her into 35 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,200 college and I just fell in love with this greyhound. 36 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,160 I'm sorry, in the bins. Going through her bins, you 37 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,080 know, she, he was going through her rubbish bins, right? 38 00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:10,840 So she had taken him in, he was filthy. 39 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,760 And then she washed him and he has this beautiful, beautiful 40 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,360 blonde, grey hand. And she used to bring him into 41 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,160 college where you weren't allowed dogs. 42 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,760 And she would be sort of chased around college by the security 43 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:24,440 guards. He would say, have you seen a 44 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,000 dog? And we'd all go, Oh no, haven't 45 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,160 seen a dog. And she said, would I look after 46 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,120 him for the weekend because I was so in love with him. 47 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:36,040 And then we just kind of kept him. 48 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,640 She didn't, she couldn't really cope with him. 49 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,880 And it turns out that he'd eaten her sofa, her carpets. 50 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,320 He completely destroyed her flat basically because it couldn't be 51 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,600 left alone at all. And our Dalmatian, Dottie was 52 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,120 completely in love with him by then too. 53 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,960 She just used to sit washing him for hours on end. 54 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,280 And then he died very young. And so it's just got Peggy now. 55 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,640 He's now 13 actually, and is a bit, a bit, I think she's a 56 00:03:03,640 --> 00:03:06,640 little bit demented. She's goes into rooms and sort 57 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:08,560 of barks. In fact, she barks all the time, 58 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:13,280 barks at nothing, wonders about. She's she's very, very sweet in 59 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,120 her old age, little bit incontinent, actually quite a 60 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,840 lot of incontinence. Bless her. 61 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,200 It's so hard, isn't it? But you've been through this 62 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,600 journey before, multiple times it seems. 63 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,920 I know. Gosh, as far as I understand it, 64 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:30,880 you had a career in fashion, which is is that the kind of 65 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,360 like after art school, did you immediately go into business 66 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,120 with Joanna? No, I didn't go to art school at 67 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,920 that stage. I applied but got rejected by 68 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:44,280 art school at the sort of normal age, like 18, I suppose, 1718. 69 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,200 And so I went into publishing and book shops and things and 70 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,840 then I always made things. And then I bought a knitting 71 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,960 machine and, and my brother said you should meet my friend Joanna 72 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:58,640 because she's also got a knitting gym. 73 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,280 And so I, I got it, I didn't know her at all. 74 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:06,160 And we got in touch and I went round there and we just decided 75 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,000 that we'd start a business together with no idea how that 76 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,800 would work, but we just decided that we did. 77 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:14,680 And we sort of did. I had, I was working in a 78 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,519 bookshop at the time. So I gave it my notice and Joe 79 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:20,720 actually knew how to knit and she was, we were doing it in 80 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,600 quite small way. So we just rang up a shop that 81 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,960 sold jumpers and said when it were designers, would you like 82 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,000 to see our weather and made six jumpers and took them around 83 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,280 there and then they, they, they ordered a few. 84 00:04:32,280 --> 00:04:35,800 So we just sort of started and it grew very organically. 85 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:37,880 So was this a very successful business? 86 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,800 Is it still ongoing? It's not really ongoing anymore. 87 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,320 It was, I mean it was going for about 40 years. 88 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,040 It was. I mean, it had peaks and 89 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,920 troughs. And the peak of peak was Diane, 90 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:53,320 Princess Diana wearing one of our jumpers when she was 91 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,240 engaged. So that was one of our 92 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,560 highlights. And so it kind of, you know, it 93 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,760 expanded and contracted as we had children, as we we put more 94 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,880 energy into it. So yeah, so it went went on for 95 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,440 a long, long time. Princess Diana, is that the 96 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,440 jumper with the with the sheep? Is it she? 97 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,480 Yeah, yeah, sheep all over it. And then one black sheep. 98 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:16,920 Everyone, she thinks. Did that happen? 99 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:18,920 Did she order through your Instagram page? 100 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,200 I don't think Instagram. Shouldn't exist. 101 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,120 No, we don't know how she got it. 102 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,560 It's very weird. I mean, we're very small. 103 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,560 We think by looking back through our, you know, not very many 104 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:35,640 orders that one of possibly one of the bridesmaids mothers gave 105 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,800 it to her. Not quite sure how we deduce 106 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,560 that. No, we've never known how she 107 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,320 got it. So what about your journey with 108 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,160 arts then? How did you go from jumpers and 109 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,160 knitting to becoming a person who draws dogs? 110 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,760 So I did finally get to art school, going to the art school 111 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,960 that I originally applied for, which is in Bath art school. 112 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,360 I think when we were going through one of our shrinking 113 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,960 periods with business, I just thought I really always wanted 114 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,120 to go to art school and I could go now as a material student. 115 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,680 So I took myself off to Bath, did Foundation, then went on to. 116 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,880 I then had small children so I couldn't really go any further 117 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,280 afield. I went to the local art school 118 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,440 as as a part time, which was great. 119 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,240 Five years was really, I loved it. 120 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:29,120 And then I painted my children a lot when I was at art school. 121 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,520 No dogs at all. And then kind of afterwards I 122 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,720 thought I should get to make a living out of this. 123 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,640 I've got to take commissions up, you know, paint people's 124 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,560 children, do something that somebody's going to want. 125 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,960 I can't just paint and hope that somebody discovers me. 126 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,560 So I started painting children and then occasionally I get 127 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,360 asked to paint their hamster, rabbit, dog, cat. 128 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,240 Anyhow, I kind of found I preferred doing the dogs to the 129 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,800 children and they sort of took over. 130 00:06:55,840 --> 00:06:58,920 And then it was, it was, again, it was sort of slightly 131 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,560 accidental. I just moved over into dogs and 132 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,760 really, really loved it in a way that I didn't really love doing 133 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:06,680 children. How did you know that there was 134 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:07,640 a market for it? I think. 135 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:09,800 I think it was social media actually. 136 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:14,000 I know that it's it's got a very bad name in many ways, but I did 137 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,320 a thing on Facebook, Dog a day. So I did. 138 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,040 I posted a dog every day for a year and I think that was what 139 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,720 got me going really, because apart from sort of doing 140 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,640 something consistently so people would know that there was 141 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,600 another one coming the next day, it sort of made me try out 142 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,400 different things, try out different media and it made me 143 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,400 always need to do something different I suppose. 144 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,520 So it was very good to practise. And then it kind of builds up a 145 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,760 builds up a following. And then I did a book from that. 146 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:46,680 Yeah. I mean, Joe and I had done a lot 147 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,360 of knitting books. We did knit your own dog, knit 148 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,280 your own cat zoo pet. We did. 149 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,840 We did a lot. And the same publishers said, do 150 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,480 you want to do a book of your paintings? 151 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,280 Pavilion, they're called. So I did a dog a day. 152 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,880 I I think you have a very unique style. 153 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,040 It's really, really beautiful. Did you develop that over time? 154 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:10,480 Did you start in the same way that you draw now? 155 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,600 Like how has that evolved over time? 156 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,720 I think I've got more confidence actually, when I think of the 157 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,960 the drawing that I sent in to apply for art college when I 158 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,680 didn't get in, it was very wispy and hesitant, lots of sort of 159 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,440 uncertain lines. And I think I was so determined 160 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,200 to have a bit more confidence with drawing that that's that, 161 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,520 you know, I think from quite early on I've had a much 162 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:38,640 stronger line about line. And and yeah, I suppose I think 163 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:40,960 things just evolve as you go along. 164 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,000 You find a way of doing things that your own way. 165 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,640 So you start doing things, and some things work and other 166 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,760 things don't work, and then you find your kind of path through 167 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,080 it. Did you shape that according to 168 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,600 what the market wanted or what you preferred? 169 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,240 I think what I preferred really, I mean there wasn't really that 170 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,400 much of A market for me at that time. 171 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,840 I was just kind of doing it. And when did you start your 365 172 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,720 project? About 12 years ago, maybe. 173 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,280 Oh is it that long ago? I don't know why, I was under 174 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,800 the impression it was a COVID project or something. 175 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,360 No, no, I did a different one in COVID did. 176 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,880 You OK, so I'm not totally off. The second one never, you know, 177 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,920 I just, it was, it's just here in notebooks. 178 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,160 I just did the view out of my window and then COVID came along 179 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,560 and I I was stuck with the view out of my window. 180 00:09:29,560 --> 00:09:33,800 I was always doing Delvis as well, such a start side project. 181 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,680 As a person who draws dogs, you probably have a different way of 182 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:40,880 seeing them, a different way of looking at them. 183 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,160 When you draw them, what do you hope to capture or what do you 184 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:45,640 focus on? I think I. 185 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,960 Quite often want to capture the the whole position of such a 186 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,040 stance of it because I think the way they're standing and the way 187 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,560 they hold themselves say a lot about them. 188 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:01,120 So it's not all about just the eyes or, you know, the face or 189 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,360 whatever. I think the sort of position of 190 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,200 the body says quite a lot about them. 191 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,160 And what's the first thing that you look for when you look at a 192 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,000 dog? It's very weird because you can 193 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,520 see a whole lot of photographs of the dog and then there's one 194 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,680 that is the perfect one and you absolutely know it, but it's 195 00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:20,560 very hard to quite know what that thing is that makes that 196 00:10:20,560 --> 00:10:23,120 the right one, but you just know it when you see it. 197 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,240 And when people look at your drawings, what do you want them 198 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,960 to know? Do you want them to feel the way 199 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:31,520 that you feel when you draw them? 200 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:32,920 What are you trying to communicate? 201 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,840 I. Think it's sort of communicating 202 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,000 what we all feel about dogs, what we all feel about a 203 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,320 particular dog. I think that's it's that sort of 204 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,840 fellow feeling about about dogs because you know, dog people are 205 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,280 always the best people. When you meet somebody, you're 206 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:49,640 out. You're out walking with your 207 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,600 dog. You immediately have a rapport 208 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,640 with somebody because you've got a dog, you know it's. 209 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,000 That's so true. I, I always end up talking to 210 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,880 people on the dog walks with my doona. 211 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:03,120 So going back to that feeling that you want to convey that 212 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,880 connection that you share with other people, what's the dog 213 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,280 that comes to mind when you think of that kind of deep, 214 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,920 profound, I guess, appreciation or love? 215 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,680 I love any long nosed dog, any long dog. 216 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,440 I love all those, which shows not the not the way that I 217 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,040 thought I'd go with dogs because my first dog was this kind of 218 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,400 hairy mongrel and that was always the sort. 219 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,720 And I still love love those sort of dogs and love painting those 220 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,600 dogs. But I do love a a long nose. 221 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,320 I love the Galgos, for instance. There's just something about the 222 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,600 Galgos that is just gets to you. They're. 223 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,600 So graceful, so beautiful. There's something so special 224 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,640 about Galgos with the dogs that you draw. 225 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,520 Would you say the majority are whippets? 226 00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:45,800 I draw a lot of dogs actually, that look like more like Joe's 227 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,680 dogs, the sort of hairy lurcher, Teddington, Whippet cross. 228 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,840 I've never had one of those dogs, but they're also very 229 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,000 appealing. There's something very touching 230 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,120 about them. They tend to be quite sort of 231 00:11:58,120 --> 00:11:59,360 fragile. Yeah. 232 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,760 Yeah, there is something. Wispy about them. 233 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,240 I recently read that you have been to Spain. 234 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,600 Well, I've. Been, I've been many times, 235 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,680 actually, over to the Galgos del Sol. 236 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:14,200 I went about 10 years ago for the first time because I didn't 237 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,520 know anything about Galgos. And then I read something about 238 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,080 them. I know I saw a photograph of 239 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,600 them all crammed into a sort of cage. 240 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,560 Then I did a print to raise money and I said ask somebody, 241 00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:28,840 which was a good charity and they said, oh, fried gal Gozdell 242 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,120 sold that, very good. So I've got in touch with them 243 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,320 and said, can I raise money for this? 244 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,320 And she said, Tina, who runs it, she was actually a local girl 245 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,360 from Fast. Yeah, I know Weird lives in 246 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,560 Spain. She said yes, yes, come and 247 00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:45,360 stay, come over anytime I've got a flat that you could stay in. 248 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:51,200 So I said yes and went over and stayed in her flat. 249 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,160 And it was before they built their lovely new centre. 250 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,160 So it was all much more, you know, they had a sort of 251 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,680 thinker, which was a quite rundown place, quite ratty. 252 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,560 And the dog, you know, the dogs were, they were being 253 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:06,960 beautifully looked after. It wasn't a purpose built 254 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,280 centre. And they just let me wonder 255 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,480 about drawing the dogs. And then they would, the gal 256 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,920 goes would just be into every, you know, they'd be in my face 257 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,680 eating my paints, licking my water, stealing my paintbrushes. 258 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,720 And because they're all sort of running free that it was just 259 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:24,400 lovely. I loved it. 260 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:27,800 And then since then I've been back lots of times. 261 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,800 And this year, she said when you come over and I've painted 262 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,400 various things around the centre. 263 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,440 When they built the new centre, I've painted with Lorraine, 264 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,560 who's one of the people during the dog show. 265 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:42,640 We did murals on the education centre and I've been back and 266 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,520 painted the puppy block. And anyhow, they had this guy 267 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,040 who has been working there for six months and he's an artist, 268 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:51,920 rapper. They said would I come over and 269 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,920 he and I would do murals in the kennels because they decided 270 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,680 that the kennels needed cheering up of the dogs. 271 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,520 And so we kind of did alternate kennels and we didn't get to do 272 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,440 that many. I think I did about 6. 273 00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:06,240 I think we did about 10 between us. 274 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,440 But it was lovely in there painting kennel again, the dogs 275 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,160 were right in your face. They were either sort of hiding 276 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:17,480 from me in the back or they were right in my face joining in, 277 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,440 eating everything, stealing. I've got lovely bit of film of 278 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,640 this dog who stole a piece of paper and he's just so happy 279 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,680 that he's got a piece of paper he's dancing around the kennel 280 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,040 with. And that's where they and they 281 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,520 really seem to enjoy them. They, you can see I've got 282 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,520 photos of them staring at these little drawing sites. 283 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,600 So yeah, I always have a wonderful time there. 284 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,320 And the weather helps as well, doesn't it? 285 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,200 Yes, I went in February. It was wonderful. 286 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,520 I kept sending photos that you know I'm putting on Factor 50. 287 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,600 I remember seeing the pictures and just thinking, oh, I really 288 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,480 wish I could go on a holiday. If I didn't have doona, I would 289 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,280 do a lot more volunteering abroad. 290 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,960 I think it's a it's a really special thing to be able to do, 291 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,280 like combine a holiday and some good at the same time. 292 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,560 Or like you'd like, volunteer your skills. 293 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,720 It's amazing, yes. All the people who come over, I 294 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,840 mean, they do quite often go back with a dog. 295 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:16,920 You have all have lunch together. 296 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,920 So you meet all these people from all over the world who come 297 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,520 for a week. It's quite hard work, I think. 298 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,840 Yeah, I mean, what I'm doing is not that hard work, but what 299 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,240 they're doing is quite hard work. 300 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,680 But they all seem to absolutely love it. 301 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,480 So you're looking at your, the broader body of work in terms of 302 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,880 like your drawings. What is the purpose or the aim 303 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,120 of those drawings? Do you believe that they they 304 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,040 have the power to change perception? 305 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,360 Do you want to change perception at all? 306 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,120 Do you like what? What is your? 307 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:50,480 Do you have a goal other than expressing yourself through the 308 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,560 medium of drawing or painting? Well, I think it that's, it's 309 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,880 sort of two parts because I do lots of commissions and I do my 310 00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,640 own work. And that is that's, you know, 311 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,920 that's as we were talking before about communicating with people 312 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,240 who feel the way that you do about dogs. 313 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,520 And then there's the Galgo, which is sort of separate, which 314 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,560 I do feel that's more of a crusade really. 315 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,440 And I with that I am trying to bring them to more people's 316 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,360 attentions, I suppose. I suppose. 317 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,920 So there's, there's kind of two separate things going on there. 318 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,480 I. See, that's amazing. 319 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,160 It's wonderful that you do that. Do you think it's likely you'll 320 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,200 be doing a book about Gal Ghost to raise awareness going 321 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,520 forward? I've tried, I've really tried, 322 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,560 but the publishers are not. I think it's because because of 323 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,320 this thing of not enough people know. 324 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,080 Yeah, it's too small. I've really tried. 325 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,960 I've had an exhibition of of just gal goes but and I've 326 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:43,920 certainly got enough material for it. 327 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:48,160 But it's just it's just finding, you know, it's not maybe as 328 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,160 commercial as other as the subjects. 329 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,400 It's just one breed. But I think it's, I think it's 330 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,080 still, I'd love to do it. Yeah, I think you should. 331 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,280 It would be really interesting to see conversely like creating 332 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,640 in the book and increasing sales would then increase awareness of 333 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,079 the plans of the GAL goes. Yes, there is a March. 334 00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:09,839 Have you been on the March? They have a Spanish hunting dog 335 00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:12,040 March. In I wasn't able to go this 336 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:17,079 year, but Gemma and Adver, I had them on the podcast a couple of 337 00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:18,319 months ago with three. Spanish. 338 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,359 Hounds. Yes, 3 Spanish hands. 339 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,800 That's it. I didn't go in on this one. 340 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,160 I've only been once, but I I was ill this year because I was 341 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,200 going to be a steward. I was very excited. 342 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,920 I was going to get a high biz vest and everything, but then I 343 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,560 was ill and couldn't go. But it's it's good, but still 344 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,960 most people don't really know about it. 345 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,200 No. And, and also a lot of people 346 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,720 look at my Gallga and they think that she's a greyhound. 347 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,720 Yeah, you know, she's much smaller than a typical 348 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,840 greyhound. But yeah, bless them. 349 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,480 I think there's a long way to go, but considering that there 350 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,880 are so many different things happening in the world. 351 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,960 Exactly. It's really, you know, yeah, 352 00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,640 it's really hard to get people's attention. 353 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,080 And leading into the Brighton Dog Show, what I find 354 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,240 interesting is the creating experiences around the things 355 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,440 that we love and appreciate and want to celebrate. 356 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,000 And so the Brighton Dog Show is the first time I heard about it 357 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,080 was actually about 3-4 years ago. 358 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,360 How long has the show been going for? 359 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:22,360 What started it? What is it for those that might 360 00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:24,680 not know? It's been going for, I think 361 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:29,160 it's 10 years, but Joe does it every other year just because 362 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,840 it's such a mammoth thing. She has to sort of take her 363 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,840 whole house apart. So she's done it. 364 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:35,600 This is, I think this is the 5th. 365 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:40,080 So yeah, every other year. And she started it I think 366 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,040 because of going to, I'm rather talking for her here. 367 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:47,600 But anyhow, I am going to Brighton Open Houses, which is a 368 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:52,640 huge thing and really thinking it would be, it's a good idea to 369 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,520 have something that's very specialist. 370 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,600 So that's why she thought of the dog show. 371 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,560 We'd done all these dog dog books and dog knitting and you 372 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,440 know, so there was A and I was painting dogs and she was making 373 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,320 ceramic dogs. So it seemed like seemed like a 374 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,240 good idea. When I stumbled upon the 375 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,760 Brighton Dog show, I was like, these are my people. 376 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,280 This is exactly what I was looking for. 377 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:18,000 It's so, so beautiful and it's so beautifully curated as well. 378 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,880 What do you know about how the artists are identified and 379 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,480 selected for the show? It's it's a lot of them are 380 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,600 people that we've kind of known for a while over the years. 381 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,680 There's like Lorraine who, Lorraine Corrigan, who's done it 382 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,800 since it started. She's a she's a Whippet friend 383 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,320 of mine from PATH. Actually we used to have Whippet 384 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,360 Wednesdays together. She does the papier mache dogs. 385 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,480 Some people are found from Instagram. 386 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,120 There was somebody, actually the person Lucy Amos, who's doing 387 00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:56,120 their jewellery this year. She came to the show last time 388 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,040 wearing a little beautiful little pendant, which fine 389 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,160 little hand painted pendant, which one of the other people 390 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,640 who was there spotted. So that's how you know. 391 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,480 So it's kind of people that hear about people that you might see 392 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,720 at a craft fair or something, bit of Instagram, bit of just 393 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,560 knowing people. So it's quite a mixture. 394 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,160 What is going to be different between two years ago and this 395 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,840 the show this year? Well, there's quite a few new 396 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,160 people you have to have. I mean, there's a sort of 397 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,320 hardcore but but equally you have to have, you know, Joe's 398 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,520 bringing in new people. There's someone called Nikki 399 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,600 Nunn who does beautiful pen link drawings. 400 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,960 Harriet louder, do you know? Her, absolutely. 401 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:37,880 Who doesn't know her? Well, exactly. 402 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:42,760 Yes, yes, fabulous Harriet is. She's bringing loads of stuff, 403 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:48,520 you know, bags, prints, books, yeah, loads and loads of stuff. 404 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,840 And I think. Made by Harriet, I think. 405 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:52,560 Made by Harriet. Exactly. 406 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,880 And there's Eli Inks, who's doing tattoos this year, which 407 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,800 is a very new thing. Never had that before. 408 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,720 There's a new sculpture. There's some. 409 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,080 Yeah, there's there's various people doing kind of small 410 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:07,920 sculptures, but I'll tell you there is. 411 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,040 Also there's Holy Smoke. Have you come across her? 412 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,760 Absolutely beautiful. Really worth having a look. 413 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,480 What's her medium Well. She used to do. 414 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,960 It's quite hard to know what it is actually. 415 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:24,440 It's almost like calico that has been sort of frayed, so you get 416 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,280 the eyebrows and the fuzzy bits. But I think possibly she's not 417 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,640 doing that this time. I think she may have changed. 418 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,120 I think she might be doing straight sculpture. 419 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:34,600 I'm not. Absolutely sure, because I 420 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,960 haven't seen them yet. Dog sculptures? 421 00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:38,240 Yeah, yes. Vintage. 422 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,320 They're vintage textiles. Yes. 423 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,000 Oh, that's so beautiful. They're really beautiful. 424 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,200 Yeah. No, she did it about 3 * 3 times 425 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,680 ago I think. I mean, I've got 1 of 426 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,800 practically everything apart from the really enormous ones. 427 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,560 So I've got 1 of hers which is just stunning. 428 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,720 Is your home the same as Joanna's house? 429 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,240 Yeah, in that we've, we've all got the same. 430 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,800 Yeah, we've got the same dog artists in it, pretty much. 431 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,520 Yeah, mine is. Mine is much more crowded and 432 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,840 untidy. For people who are also 433 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,920 interested in collecting art, where do you recommend they go 434 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,080 or look to find unique and special pieces? 435 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,720 Dog Show. The dog show is number 1. 436 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,520 Of course it is, but. Because they're all in one 437 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,840 place. Yeah, I'll tell you what is good 438 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,400 is actually those charity auctions like Project Galgo do 439 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,720 one, don't they? They do an art auction, the 440 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,120 Galgost del Sol do art auctions. They're very good for for dog 441 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:40,400 art. And they, they have a lot of 442 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,600 really good people doing those. And they often, of course, go 443 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,320 for I mean, sometimes they go for mad amounts of money and 444 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,800 sometimes they go for less. So the it's it's slightly all 445 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:55,000 over the place, they pricing, but they're a good place for if 446 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,920 you can't get to the dog show, they're a good place for talk 447 00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,520 art. Why should people go to the dog 448 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,200 show? I don't think there's anything 449 00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:05,760 like it anywhere in the world. A woman came from America last 450 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,040 year to come and, you know, study it. 451 00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:10,480 So maybe there isn't that the one like it in the world, but 452 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,200 there wasn't anything like it in the world where you get such 453 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,520 concentrated high quality selection of dog art. 454 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,480 I think high quality is probably the key thing there and varied 455 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,800 too. You can actually go and buy some 456 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,520 of the items. There is everything there for 457 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,520 sale or I didn't actually know that. 458 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,440 I thought part of it was just an appreciation of dog art and 459 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,960 getting everybody together type of type of thing. 460 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,920 But no, this is a, it's a. Selling thing, I mean a lot of 461 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,280 people just come because I think all the open houses, people just 462 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,840 go round looking at them all. And Joe's husband Orlando does 463 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,560 lovely teas and cakes. So they, you know, people can 464 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,720 just come and have a look, have tea and cake. 465 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,440 You don't have to buy anything. Everything is for sale. 466 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,200 It's it's part of the Brighton open houses, which is, I don't 467 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,800 know if you've ever been to it, but it's just of them all over 468 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,160 Brighton and it's people showing their paintings, their 469 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,320 jewellery, their whatever. Yes. 470 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,400 So it's, it's part of that which is just a giant art exhibition. 471 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,480 It's appreciation of dogs. I mean, just generally, I don't 472 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,520 think the, the open houses has any particular agenda. 473 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,160 But the dog, the dogs is just love of dogs. 474 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,120 If you love dogs, I think that's the strap line is if you love 475 00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:28,720 dogs, you know, it's not a, it's not a dogmatic to put it in a in 476 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,120 a apartment way exhibition. It's not a teaching exhibition. 477 00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:34,640 It's just a celebrating exhibition. 478 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:35,960 I'm really looking forward to it. 479 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:37,440 And do people need to buy tickets? 480 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,080 Can they just show up? Just show up and bring their 481 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:41,760 dogs. Dogs welcome. 482 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,320 There's dog biscuits. Orlando, apart from making 483 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,440 fabulous cakes, also makes dog biscuits. 484 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:52,120 It's at 33 Silkwood Rd. It's on from 11 till 5:00 and 485 00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:55,840 it's on every weekend in May except for the last 1. 486 00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:01,120 So 4 weekends in May starting on the 2nd and also on two bank 487 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:04,960 holiday Mondays. And everybody who loves dogs 488 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,080 should come and bring their dogs. 489 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,360 Think I think dog people are just interesting. 490 00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:13,920 And I want to know dog people. And there's always people who 491 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,080 have fascinating stories about their dogs. 492 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,240 When you come to the dog show, everybody has got stories about 493 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,080 their dogs. If they haven't got their dog 494 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:22,840 with them, they've got their dog on their phone. 495 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,000 They want to show you a photo and tell you what their dog, 496 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,880 their dog's little ways. So I think, I think there is a, 497 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,440 you know, there's a, there's just a common feeling amongst 498 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,320 dog people that is very life enhancing. 499 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,760 Yeah, that's so true. Have you observed people as they 500 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,120 walk into the home and like how their expression changes or how 501 00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:44,680 they. Yes, they really react. 502 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,240 They really react well. It's just lovely. 503 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,680 Thank you so much for coming on. And yeah, good luck with the dog 504 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,760 show and I guess I will see you there. 505 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,600 I'll see you. Thank you, Nadine. 506 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:55,760 Bye. Bye.