1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,680 Hello and welcome to Just a Dog Podcast. 2 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:12,440 I am your host, Nadine. Before I introduce this weeks 3 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:16,120 guest, I wanted to let you know that starting this week, this 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,640 podcast will move to a biweekly schedule. 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,720 Slowing down a little means that I can give each episode the care 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,600 and the depth that it deserves, to find the right guests, to ask 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,400 better questions, and to keep learning along the way. 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,200 New episodes will be out every other Thursday, with occasional 9 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:39,160 bonus episodes in between. In this episode I speak with 10 00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:43,000 Jenna Miller, Chair of the Board of Trustees at Spirit of the Dog 11 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,800 Rescue. With over 15 years of experience 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,320 in animal care, Jenna has worked across every corner of the 13 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,040 rescue world, from large national organisations to small 14 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,920 independence. She brings an honest, grounded 15 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,080 perspective on what rescue really looks like behind the 16 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:05,120 scenes, the systems, the heartbreak, and the hope. 17 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,320 In this conversation, we talk about what happens when a dog 18 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:13,640 enters rescue, the impact of unregulated rescues, and the 19 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,040 realities of trying to keep families and dogs together in an 20 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,880 overstretched system. We touch on compassion fatigue, 21 00:01:20,960 --> 00:01:24,080 fostering, and the misconceptions that shape how we 22 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,960 see rescue dogs. And how much of this work is 23 00:01:27,960 --> 00:01:32,080 really about helping humans to see dogs more clearly as 24 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,480 sentient beings navigating a very human world? 25 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,320 On a personal note, I reached out to Jenna months ago. 26 00:01:39,320 --> 00:01:43,600 But as is so often the case in rescue, finding time is hard. 27 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,880 So after months of trying, we finally made it happen. 28 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,840 And I persisted for one reason. Jenna cares deeply. 29 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,760 She has a rare mix of compassion, intelligence, and 30 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,400 insight that I believe more people need to hear. 31 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:04,520 This episode isn't about fundraising, but I realised 32 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,360 afterwards that we didn't even talk about how people can help 33 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,160 charities like Spirit of the Dog Rescue survive entirely on 34 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,920 public support, and knowing Jenna's commitment first hand, I 35 00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:20,480 can't think of a better cause. So if you ever find yourself 36 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:25,200 unsure of what to gift someone who already has everything, a 37 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,680 donation in their name to Spirit of the Dog Rescue might be a 38 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,320 lovely alternative. You can make a donation via 39 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,520 their website spiritofthedogrescue.org. 40 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:40,840 Dot uki feel very lucky to have had this conversation and I hope 41 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:42,600 that there's something in it for you too. 42 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,680 So without further ado, here is my conversation with Jenna. 43 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:53,800 Enjoy, Jenna. Hello, I'm so glad to have you 44 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,000 on Just a Dog podcast. How are you? 45 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,440 I'm good, Yeah. So good to see. 46 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,560 You glad to finally have you on, right? 47 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,480 There's so much to cover, so let's get straight into it. 48 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:08,040 I would love for listeners to understand a little bit about 49 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,520 your journey and what brought you to this where you are today. 50 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,800 Well, I've always wanted to work with animals. 51 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,440 So I studied animal management at college and went into animal 52 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,120 care roles and found it quite difficult really to find an 53 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,600 animal care job that really aligned with my ethics and my 54 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,280 values. So I tried lots of different 55 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,400 things. I worked in boarding kennels on 56 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,120 site of a seized dog unit where the police then dogs that 57 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,800 they've stayed under section one O 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act. 58 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,680 I've worked at boarding kennels that I lived on site of council 59 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,800 pounds and then I got the opportunity to work at the 60 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:52,080 largest canine welfare organisation in the UK, which 61 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,200 was amazing. And alongside that worked at an 62 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,080 independent rescue with a lot more dogs. 63 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:04,200 And it was a real stark contrast really to see an organisation 64 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,600 with huge amounts of money and one with very little, both 65 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,040 trying to seemingly trying to achieve the same thing. 66 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,680 And over time, I got to know lots of different independent 67 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,880 rescues and volunteered for all sorts of different ones that 68 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,720 operate in different ways to try and really get a deeper 69 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,120 understanding of how the system works. 70 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,240 And eventually ended up at the organisation I'm at now, Spirit 71 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,320 of the Dog Rescue, and I started off as a kennel carer for the 72 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,400 dogs and then was asked to be a committee member and then a 73 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:43,160 trustee and then eventually charity chair, which is what I 74 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,000 do now. Amazing. 75 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,120 So within the framework of a of a rescue would like, what are 76 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,560 the types of roles that you would typically get? 77 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,160 Is that what you've just listed? Like the natural progression up? 78 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,920 Well, with not all rescues are registered charities. 79 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,960 So within a registered charity, you have a chair of the board of 80 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,760 trustees, you have your trustees, your committee, and 81 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,680 then everyone else. And it depends what setup you've 82 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,840 got. You might have kennel managers, 83 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:16,440 you might have secretaries and admin people. 84 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,200 And here's the sound effects. My dog's just having a drink 85 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,400 down here. So yeah. 86 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,640 And you've obviously got fundraisers, people that do 87 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,200 transport, run, sometimes you have medically trained people, 88 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,800 behaviourist trainers. So there's so many different 89 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,640 roles and so many different people that come together to 90 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,880 make a rescue. What it is really? 91 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:43,160 That's incredible. So with yours, your rescue is 92 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,600 independent as I understand it, right? 93 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:47,680 Yeah. And how many, how many people do 94 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,920 you have working in this rescue? Well, we're all volunteers. 95 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,320 It's completely run by volunteers so we don't have any 96 00:05:54,320 --> 00:06:00,560 staff, but probably about 30 including all the fundraisers. 97 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,560 Wow, OK, it's much bigger than I thought it was. 98 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:10,360 Yeah, lots of people are sort of casual or part time where 99 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,120 obviously it's not a paid role. Sometimes people can increase 100 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,040 their hours, have to decrease them depending on their other 101 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,000 commitments. But yeah, we we honestly 102 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,800 couldn't run without volunteers and public support. 103 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,760 That's awesome. So in general, how would your 104 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,560 rescue compared to others? So you're kind of smaller and 105 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,200 independent. Other than size, how are you 106 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:37,720 different from other rescues? The main thing that we take 107 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,800 pride in is the behaviour support aspect and the emotional 108 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,120 well-being support for the dogs and ongoing for the adopters. 109 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,960 So Spirit of the Dog was originally called Spirit of the 110 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,560 Dog Rehabilitation Fund when it was registered. 111 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,440 And the idea was to raise money for a purpose built rehab centre 112 00:06:56,840 --> 00:06:59,880 for dogs, Last Chance Dogs as they would call them back then. 113 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,480 And for guardians, dog guardians in the local community to come 114 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,960 and be trained in how to understand their dog to try and 115 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,200 keep families together. If people are wanting to give a 116 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,360 dog up for behavioural things that they're struggling to cope 117 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:19,880 with and also to do work matching dogs that come into the 118 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,320 rescue with their adopters. So that was the original aim and 119 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,480 that was 20 years ago that they started. 120 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,560 They wanted to help dogs in the meantime before they got 121 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,760 premises. So they were using what we call 122 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:36,720 EB emergency Boarding kennels. So this is kennels much like you 123 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,400 would use if you were to go on holiday and board your dog 124 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,600 somewhere. And yeah, they, they work with 125 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,440 rescues and you rent the space at the kennels. 126 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,520 And a good rescue who's using EB will go and work with the dogs 127 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,360 at the kennels, spend lots of time there. 128 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,120 And that will be their base that they're working from. 129 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,920 So they don't have the overheads of their own site, but they 130 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,640 still have a registered licence boarding kennels to use to keep 131 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,560 their dogs. So the dogs are at the boarding 132 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,040 kennels. Sometimes they're in foster 133 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,560 homes and where the charity was founded by behaviourists. 134 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,160 Those behaviourists would then work with the dogs and use their 135 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,400 expertise to help the outreach dogs and the dogs that were 136 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,040 under the rescue. That's kind of evolved over 137 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,600 time. We did have an opportunity to 138 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,120 build our own kennel site in 2024 and had great funding for 139 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:22,840 it. Unfortunately it fell through 140 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,120 though. We are still using, I know it's 141 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,320 still using EB kennels, but it's kind of worked out for the best. 142 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,640 Up until now it's it's been a really good setup and it has 143 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,200 worked well. So when the founders retired and 144 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,159 I became chair, I'm not a behaviourist myself, so I've 145 00:08:39,159 --> 00:08:43,039 been recruiting amazing qualified people, trainers, 146 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:46,840 behaviourists, animal therapists, all kinds of amazing 147 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,120 people who volunteer their time to work with the dogs. 148 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,040 So when we get a dog come in under our care, we find out what 149 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,040 their needs are and we curate them their own personalised 150 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,480 well-being team. So that will be usually a a 151 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,200 behaviourist and it depends on what they need. 152 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,280 If they are matted and worried about grooming, they'll have a 153 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,560 fear free groomer. So it really depends what they 154 00:09:08,560 --> 00:09:12,120 need and then we get the support around them and that team stays 155 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,080 with the dog through the adoption process and post 156 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,160 adoption as well. Because the last thing we really 157 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,520 want is any of our dogs to come to harm's way because their 158 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:26,120 adopter has taken advice from a trainer who can't be trusted. 159 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,120 Obviously with it being completely unregulated in the 160 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,480 training world too. So something that we care a lot 161 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:36,480 about is is using up to date methods and compassionate and 162 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,200 science. So typically would dogs come 163 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,440 straight to you and you would find an emergency kennel and 164 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,680 then you would find someone to adopt them? 165 00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:49,680 Or how how does that process typically work when let's 166 00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:52,120 imagine someone gives you a phone call and says, oh, we've 167 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:58,200 got, you know, Bruno needing a home. 168 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,760 Well, we'd like walk me through your process typically. 169 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,600 And I know that every case is different, but yeah. 170 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:05,920 Exactly, Yeah, every case is different. 171 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:07,680 So we'd first assess their needs. 172 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,000 Have we got a sort of poorly elderly dog with no behaviour 173 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,440 concerns that needs to go straight into a foster home? 174 00:10:14,680 --> 00:10:17,200 Have we got a dog who's finding life really tricky and we need 175 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,840 to do more thorough assessments? Ideally, if a, if a foster is 176 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,560 available and that is safe and that's the right thing to do, 177 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,480 then we would assess them in situ where they are and make 178 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,680 sure that everything's safe and put all of the right training 179 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:33,680 and support in around that foster home. 180 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,880 If they go to emergency boarding kennels, then we start off by 181 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,680 letting them decompress, getting to know them, and then we would 182 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:45,080 start introducing them to new people and different things and 183 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,200 taking them out. And then we get to know a lot 184 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,680 more about them. When we start looking at homes, 185 00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:55,400 we really want the adopters to come to visit the dogs and then 186 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:59,360 I will take the dogs to their home and so they'll do a few 187 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,840 visits with me there and the dog will just come with me. 188 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,120 So it's just like any other day out for the dogs. 189 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,800 It's not about putting them straight in a home and then 190 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,880 leaving them there because by this point they're starting to 191 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:11,680 build a bond with me and they're starting to trust me. 192 00:11:11,680 --> 00:11:13,440 So they're just going on a day out with me. 193 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,960 And then when the dog and the people start to feel really 194 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,080 comfy, I'll leave them alone for a little while, but I'm in my 195 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,640 van outside getting on with some admin and by my phone in case 196 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,880 they need anything. When that starts going well and 197 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,320 they're ready to have a sleepover, this is usually at 198 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,280 the point where people know that they're going to commit because 199 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,760 we don't want dogs getting passed around and having 200 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,520 overwhelmed, not knowing where they they are from one day to 201 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,720 the next. So one of the people are really 202 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,320 comfy, then they have a sleepover and that kind of rolls 203 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,120 into a pre adoption, settling in period and then into adoption. 204 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,280 That's incredible. It is so thorough as well. 205 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,440 I love how much you care about these dogs. 206 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,640 I remember seeing a video, a couple of videos actually, 207 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,880 recently and I absolutely love your videos. 208 00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:00,280 By the way, if anybody hasn't seen it, go to Spirit of the Dog 209 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:05,720 Rescues Instagram page, or we also have Dog Rescue Diaries. 210 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,680 It's another page that Jenna manages and yeah, she she 211 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:14,720 documents stories about certain cases or certain dogs over time. 212 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:20,640 And I think the last one was Jack and that was just such an 213 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,880 emotional, incredible story. I would love for you to share 214 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:28,000 just I know this is has potential to be really long, but 215 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,600 like just some of the key things about Jack and and and the 216 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,200 outcome. Well, Jack was called in to us 217 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,400 by a member of the public who said I've been made homeless and 218 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,600 I need help. Can you take my German Shepherd? 219 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,560 And I said, well, we don't have space at the moment, but what I 220 00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:49,680 can do is put up a post to go out to rescue contacts and 221 00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:52,880 colleagues to see if anyone else has got space and I'll let you 222 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,520 know. So the last thing I want to do 223 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,000 is not to not be able to help a dog and leave someone in the 224 00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:58,920 lurch. So I'll always try and do 225 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,160 something. Usually that's trying to keep a 226 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,440 dog with the person. So we've got a food bank scheme, 227 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,160 we've got outreach projects, we've got things to try and keep 228 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:08,960 families together. But that wasn't going to work in 229 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,640 this case. So I tried to, I put a post up 230 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:16,320 and contacted some shepherd rescues that I know, and then I 231 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,160 got a tip off that all wasn't as it seemed with Jack, and he'd 232 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,240 actually just come out of police kennels. 233 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,040 He'd been seized over a year ago and he'd been deemed a very 234 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,760 dangerous dog. Allegedly he'd attacked a police 235 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,680 officer. None of this had been disclosed. 236 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,840 And This is why it's very common for people to not disclose 237 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,240 information like this, which is why I'm always telling people 238 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,760 please don't just go and get a dog off Facebook sales or 239 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,000 Gumtree. Chances are people have got to 240 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,080 the point where they're lying about serious behaviours. 241 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:48,400 So yeah, it all started coming out there. 242 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,200 It wasn't as it seemed. And then I contacted his owner 243 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:52,600 back. We were to in and fro in and she 244 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,000 said yeah, look, he did. That is true, he has just come 245 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:56,600 out of police camels, but it wasn't his fault. 246 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,000 And then the story started to unfold as I got hold of the 247 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,520 solicitors paperwork and all the court documents and really sort 248 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,920 of had to dig deep to find out what was the truth in all of 249 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:07,400 this. The poor Jack stuck in the 250 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,520 middle and it turned out that he hadn't attacked the police 251 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,920 officer. They'd climbed over the fence 252 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:18,280 into his garden and tasered him. And they'd also used the Parva 253 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:22,080 spray on him, which is like a stingy awful thing that goes in 254 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,520 their eyes which makes their eyes burn. 255 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,520 And then they'd actually tasered him twice and then taken him 256 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,520 away on a catch pole to the vet to have the barbs removed from 257 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,880 the Taser and then locked him up in police kennels for a year. 258 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,680 And because he'd been deemed dangerous, nobody took him out 259 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,360 for walks. He didn't have any yard time. 260 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,880 He was literally in his kennel and there's a shutter door in 261 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:49,120 between the kennel and the run. And he would go from one side to 262 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,480 the other and they'd shut the door, clean that side, let him 263 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,760 through, shut it, clean that side. 264 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:55,600 And that's all he had for over a year. 265 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,200 And then he'd been home 10 days and he was in our inbox. 266 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:03,320 So as it all unravelled, we we decided we were going to work 267 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,000 with Jack and let him tell us who he was. 268 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,120 There was so much conflicting information and really the only 269 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,840 person we hadn't asked at this point was Jack. 270 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,240 So we wanted to get to know him. And the video diary series is 271 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,440 what that looked like and, and how he got on. 272 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,680 And it got to the point where he was doing so well, it was 273 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,400 obviously very clear that he was not a dangerous dog as he'd been 274 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,040 described. He didn't really know much about 275 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,920 the outside world. Things were overwhelming for him 276 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:29,640 and, and he needed some help with that. 277 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:31,920 But he wasn't a dangerous dog at all. 278 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,240 And so we worked with our colleagues. 279 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,040 New Hope Rescue said that they had the perfect placement for 280 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,040 him and he could go there. And so, yeah, that's where he is 281 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,200 now. He's over at New Hope and 282 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,400 they've got loads of land there. It's a beautiful place for him 283 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:48,920 to be. And he's not in a kennel 284 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:50,320 anymore. It's more like a bedroom with 285 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:55,440 sofas in it with his radio on. So yeah, it's, it's the perfect 286 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,880 spot for him right now. And that, that was a good bit of 287 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,040 teamwork really. And I'm very, very grateful to 288 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,000 New Hope for opening up that space for him. 289 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,560 It's really important that rescues work together where 290 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,720 possible if you've got the right set up for a dog. 291 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,720 But yeah, it just goes to show that you can't believe 292 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,680 everything that you hear about a dog. 293 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,560 Yeah, unfortunately. What are some of the risks? 294 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,440 I remember a couple of months ago if somebody contacted me 295 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:23,240 basically saying that the dog's owner had been struggling with 296 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:28,200 substance abuse over an extended period and she was quite young 297 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,320 anyway. And so the mother, who was also 298 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,400 a cabin crew, was left with a dog for the majority of time, 299 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,240 and she couldn't take care of him anymore. 300 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:43,000 So they wanted to find someone who would take the dog. 301 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,200 And I remember actually considering taking it and then 302 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,600 thinking, oh, you know, perhaps the next day I could go find a 303 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,360 rescue who would potentially be able to take the dog. 304 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,520 And if if it wasn't for the fact that I had a Direct Line to you 305 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,640 and you raising a couple of issues with me, I wouldn't have 306 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,640 had that level of awareness. So do you remember that 307 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,119 conversation? Yeah, I do. 308 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,560 What were some of those risks that you discussed with me? 309 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,480 At the moment rescues are full. Rescues are full to bursting. 310 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,359 You can barely get a rescue space for newborn puppies. 311 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:21,040 I've been trying to get a rescue space over the last few days for 312 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,680 two elderly Jack Russells, aged 11 and 15, whose owner has died. 313 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:27,880 And I cannot get them in anywhere for love nor money 314 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,520 right now. So when members of the public 315 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:34,480 want to help a dog and they have this romantic idea of I'll bring 316 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,400 them home and then I'll just get them into, I'll just call the 317 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:37,600 rescue and someone will pick them up. 318 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:39,400 That's not necessarily going to happen. 319 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,920 And there was a good chance that you would have had that dog in 320 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,280 your home indefinitely. And The thing is you, you've got 321 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,160 a good home there, you've got a loving home. 322 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,960 You're a responsible person. As soon as you were going to 323 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,960 take that that dog and bring them into your home, that dog's 324 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,720 no longer urgent to anybody because that because that dog 325 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,040 would have been safe in your home. 326 00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,760 So no one would have been coming to help. 327 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,280 You would have been quicker to get that dog into a rescue where 328 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,000 they were while they were still urgent. 329 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,240 So that's the tricky thing. And if you weren't in a position 330 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,160 to take that dog long term, a lot of people do this and then 331 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,680 end up with a dog in their home who is panicking, biting, 332 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,240 horrendous separation anxiety, destroying the place, being 333 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,160 really noisy. They're in rented accommodation, 334 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,200 the neighbours complain and they end up in just as desperate a 335 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,000 situation as the person they were trying to help. 336 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,720 So the best thing is always to get a rescue first to help you. 337 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,640 Even if you want to foster, get that rescue to be your backup 338 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,000 because once a a decent rescue is offered on a dog, what 339 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,240 they're doing is they're promising that dog safety for 340 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,320 the rest of their life. When you're a rescue, if you 341 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:51,520 take a dog, you're not thinking, can I rehome this dog and wash 342 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,600 my hands? What you're agreeing to is being 343 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,760 responsible for that dog for the rest of their life. 344 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,560 I've got dogs out there, 2 year old colleagues out there. 345 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,960 I could get a phone call in 15 years that something's happened 346 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,280 to their adopters and I would be responsible for going to get 347 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,000 those dogs and making sure they're OK. 348 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,880 Once you have a good rescue and you have your RBU that protects 349 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:13,800 you as the person who wants to take the dog on. 350 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,960 So you could contact a rescue and say I could be a foster 351 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,160 home, I could be a long term foster home, but I need rescue 352 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,400 backup. That's the most responsible way 353 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,760 to go about doing something like that. 354 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,560 If you're not 100% committed that you could handle anything, 355 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,520 and I'm including serious bites and all sorts in that. 356 00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:32,600 Yeah. So that would have been really 357 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,160 risky. Medical stuff as well. 358 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,280 We had a lady contact us about Nancy the sausage dog. 359 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,320 And here's another one of our recent dogs and she was just 360 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,480 looking after Nancy for a lady who'd lost her home. 361 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,520 But Nancy had an ulcerated, infected eyeball to the point 362 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,160 where it was a real welfare issue. 363 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,320 And the lady who'd offered to foster didn't have the money to 364 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,520 go to the vets, and neither did her owner. 365 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:57,760 So she had to reach out for advice. 366 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,160 And it was getting to the point where she could actually get 367 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,080 prosecuted under the Animal Welfare Act for having a dog. 368 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,680 Yeah, even though she was trying to Foster and just trying to 369 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:07,720 help. But she didn't have the money 370 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,640 for the vet. She had her own dogs that were 371 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,640 insured and she could cover that. 372 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,840 But she couldn't cover for this other dog, and it was getting to 373 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,960 the point where this foster lady who just wanted to help get a 374 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,280 dog out of the situation could have ended up prosecuted under 375 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,760 the Animal Welfare Act herself. And then Nancy ended up signed 376 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,480 over to us and we're probably nearly up to £1000 in medical 377 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:28,560 bills just now. Oh. 378 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:31,480 Man. There's lots to consider. 379 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,560 Lots to consider. It sounds really complex the and 380 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,520 there's so much that you know unless you if you don't know, 381 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,880 you don't know. So unless you have experience 382 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,440 with that or you can ask someone, you wouldn't really. 383 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,920 I never understood and I to some degree still don't like the, 384 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:52,840 the, the factors that go into like everything that goes into 385 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,120 takes, gets taken into consideration when it, when an, 386 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,880 when the call comes through and then that process to like decide 387 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,440 to take on the dog. And it kind of makes sense why 388 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,160 for a lot of larger rescue organisations and charities, 389 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,720 their processes and procedures are so rigid. 390 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,080 Yeah, there's lots of different types of organisations. 391 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,360 So you have like an open intake type shelter where they are 392 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:24,240 essentially council pounds and they have to take any dog who 393 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,520 comes through the door like Battersea. 394 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,800 But then you've got rehoming centres like Dogs Trust who are 395 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:32,720 not. They don't. 396 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,400 When I worked there they didn't identify as a rescue, they're 397 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,920 identified as a rehoming centre. That's not the same as a council 398 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,200 pound and open intake shelter. So there's lots of different 399 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,760 types of organisations and you don't necessarily know, most of 400 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,840 the public don't necessarily understand the difference of 401 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,680 what they're ringing and what that organisation there to do. 402 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,760 Yeah, 100%. Because I, I didn't, I didn't 403 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,520 understand that at all. I assumed wrongly that if you 404 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,280 call a rescue, they say bring the dog, they take the dog and 405 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,120 they put them in the back. You know what I mean? 406 00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:08,560 Until they can find someone, you know, perhaps having people come 407 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,040 in every day, take a stroll and see what dogs they, you know, 408 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,880 are ready to adopt. I know that's quite a naive way 409 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,320 of of looking at it, but if you don't know, you don't know 410 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,400 really so. One of the first rescues that 411 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,160 I've worked for ran exactly like that, and they just said she had 412 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,600 a barn full of dogs in cages and people were just walking around 413 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,240 and going, yeah, I'll take that one, and taking them home. 414 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,680 That's not, that's not a reputable practise, not checking 415 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,560 anyone and just letting people walk out with dogs. 416 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,240 But that that's how that worked. Yeah. 417 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,120 There's still places that do things like that. 418 00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:44,240 It's not not good, but they exist because rescue is not 419 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,800 regulated right now. What is the latest update as far 420 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,760 as you're aware with regards to the petition that recently 421 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,120 closed? Yeah, the petitions ended, it 422 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:57,440 got over 100,000 signatures, so it can technically be debated in 423 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:02,040 Parliament now. And Richard Holden, the MP, has 424 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,040 been amazing trying to push that through. 425 00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:09,480 Now all we can do really is wait and see, hold our breaths and 426 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,800 hope that but that happens. Have you seen any legislation 427 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,480 passed previously? How long does that typically 428 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,360 take? Well, when it came to banning 429 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:22,080 Excel bullies, they pushed that through very quickly. 430 00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:25,480 When it came to Lucy's Law, it took over 10 years. 431 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,560 It really depends what the priorities are at the time, I 432 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,640 think. But yeah, this is rescue. 433 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:36,960 Regulations already come into place in Scotland, hopefully 434 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,560 Wales soon too, and then England. 435 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,960 Fingers crossed we'll follow on quickly after that. 436 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,120 Why is it for people who might not know? 437 00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:50,600 Why is it important to have rescue regulations? 438 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:56,120 So right now anybody, anyone watching this today can start a 439 00:23:56,120 --> 00:24:00,200 Facebook page and call themselves an animal rescue. 440 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,280 You don't need to have any qualifications. 441 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,120 You don't need to have any training if you don't insure 442 00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:07,840 your organisation. Obviously we have public 443 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,600 liability, we have indemnity insurance, We have all sorts of 444 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,280 layers of things that protect dogs, adopters and our 445 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,720 volunteers. You don't have to have anything 446 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,600 like that. You could stack dogs up in cages 447 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,240 in your one bedroom flat. You could have 30 dogs stacked 448 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,440 up in cages in your one bedroom flat and be selling them on the 449 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,520 Internet and calling yourself a rescue, misappropriating funds, 450 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,120 sticking them in your back pocket. 451 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,320 You could be getting hold of dogs for any kind of nefarious 452 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,320 purposes and calling yourself a rescue. 453 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:45,880 And there have been cases where if you're sensitive, close your 454 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,840 ears for a minute. But there have there have been 455 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,520 cases where people have called themselves the rescue to acquire 456 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,640 dogs, to take them into fighting rings or for breeding or just 457 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,640 selling them for profit. So there's really are lots of 458 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,480 dodgy things that go on in the whole spectrum of different 459 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,080 rescues. You've got the good ones, the 460 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,040 not the good ones, the people that are well meaning and don't 461 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,280 really know what they're doing, which are obviously still very 462 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,840 dangerous, and then the outright sinister. 463 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,720 And all of these can call themselves a rescue. 464 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,040 So we really need to put a stop to that and make sure that 465 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,000 there's a process to go through to make it harder for criminals 466 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,120 to use this as a way to easily acquire dogs and money. 467 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,280 Amazing. So so that as a byproduct of 468 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,840 that, let's say that those regulations came into play, it 469 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,360 would impact quite a lot of organisations because they would 470 00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:38,200 have to go through legitimate channels to meet whatever 471 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,240 requirements are set out at the time. 472 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,280 Do you think that that poses a risk for it not to potentially 473 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,920 get past or like move forward? I'd like to think the priority 474 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,840 would be the safety of the public, which this directly 475 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,640 impacts, and the safety of the dogs within the system. 476 00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:57,560 I think that's the most important thing. 477 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,800 We can't be worrying about people's feelings at a time like 478 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:01,480 this. We just need to get the job done 479 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,960 and make sure that that the public and, and the dogs are 480 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,800 safe. So it should really just be 481 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,680 about that. I mean, I, I do think there's a 482 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,760 lot of good rescues that are worried that they're going to be 483 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,960 impacted negatively, especially if they then need their pens to 484 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:19,800 be slightly bigger and they haven't got the money to knock 485 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,520 down a whole block and rebuild. Or, you know, there's probably a 486 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,120 few reasons why legitimate rescues might have some 487 00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:28,840 concerns. But I genuinely think that if 488 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,880 you're doing everything right and doing everything well, 489 00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:33,960 you've got nothing to worry about. 490 00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:37,360 And I'm sure it would be a phased process of introducing 491 00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:38,800 all these things. So there's plenty of time to 492 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,200 fundraise and get anything done that needs to be done. 493 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:46,840 Yeah, fingers and toes crossed. I remember coming to know of you 494 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:53,120 through AB Dog at the State of UK Rescue meeting in the Houses 495 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:56,080 of Parliament. And you were such an eloquent 496 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,120 speaker when you represented your your rescue and telling 497 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:04,480 people about some of the challenges that rescues faced. 498 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,280 And I remember, I don't know if it was you or somebody else that 499 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:12,080 was saying that rescues receive anything up to 150 phone calls a 500 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,640 day. And some of some of those 501 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,560 people, especially when they turned away, they'll say, if you 502 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,880 don't take my dog, I'm going to hurt the dog or I'm going to 503 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,600 hurt myself. Have you had any kind of 504 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:29,440 situations that were that extreme in your experience so. 505 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,080 Far that may well have been me that said that, yeah, I think we 506 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,720 all have. I think anyone answering a 507 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,440 rescues phone is dealing with things like that. 508 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,040 The larger organisations have got a counselling in place for 509 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,720 people to answer their phones for us independent rescues. 510 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,200 That phone's in my pocket all day. 511 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,440 And I'm, I'm dealing with that all day long. 512 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,040 And it, it is tricky because one of our lovely admin ladies said 513 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,560 that she would help answer the surrender emails recently and it 514 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,160 only took a day or so for her to become very, very upset and 515 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,320 distressed. So yeah, it's, it's not great. 516 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,040 People are really desperate. People are really desperate if 517 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,800 they're losing their homes or people that are terminally ill 518 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,360 or, you know, there's all sorts of reasons why you would be 519 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,240 desperate to give the dog up. And people are really struggling 520 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,720 with their mental health, finances, all kinds of reasons, 521 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:20,160 unfathomable reasons. And yeah, yeah, people do make 522 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,680 threats to their own lives or to their dogs. 523 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,400 And people have threatened to sensitive people. 524 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,360 Close your ears, like, drown their dog. 525 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:29,840 I'm going to drown my dog if you don't pick them up right now. 526 00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:32,000 Yeah. You hear all sorts of things 527 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,840 because people ring it. And I think especially for us 528 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,080 much smaller rescues, because people will, the first thing 529 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,600 they do is they ring the big boys that they've heard of. 530 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,240 So they'll bring dogs to us and Battersea Blue Cross, Wood 531 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,480 Green, you know, all of the big people that you might see on the 532 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,160 telly. By the time they then get put 533 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,960 onto the ADCH list, the Association of Dogs and Cats 534 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,600 homes list, which is a list of rescues who want to be 535 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,280 regulated, to have chosen to be vetted and, and looked at and 536 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,600 had everything gone through with the fine tooth comb. 537 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,880 That's the list that the big organisations will send people 538 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,520 to because they can trust those rescues. 539 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,160 They'll find little rescues like ours on there. 540 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,880 And by the time they've gotten to us they've, they're very 541 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,000 desperate. They've sometimes people are 542 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,720 ringing me, they've contacted over 150 organisations and been 543 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:21,880 turned away. And by that point they're 544 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,920 breaking. And that is also why people are 545 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,680 telling big lies about dogs temperament because they've 546 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,040 they've phoned up and said my dog's got a serious bite 547 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:33,400 history, I need you to come pick them up. 548 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,600 Because they think that if they're in danger, we're all 549 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,920 obliged to run in and help them. When actually they realise that 550 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,400 we can't even get little friendly elderly dogs or puppies 551 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,440 into rescues right now. And they then start trying to 552 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,320 hide the fact that that's been happening. 553 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:50,240 And that puts doctors in danger, foster carers, shelter staff, 554 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,240 puts us all at risk. So yeah, it's tricky. 555 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,680 Very tricky. It's really sad. 556 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,840 What are what are some of the systems that fail the people 557 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,360 that ultimately impact and fail the dogs? 558 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,960 So many. So many, like the 559 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,080 intersectionality of all of these problems is vast. 560 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,320 It is vast like the cost of living, people can't afford to 561 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,480 care for themselves, like housing crisis, the mental 562 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:24,040 health system, all, all sorts of all sorts of things that impacts 563 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,440 people. It if it impacts a person, it's 564 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,800 going to impact the animals in their care. 565 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,320 So, and any, any sort of social issue that we see that's 566 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,000 impacting people is going to impact the animals. 567 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,320 You know, there's not enough help for people in domestic 568 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,840 violence situations and accommodation for them and safe 569 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,600 places for them to go with their dogs. 570 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,040 And. Oh, there's just, it's vast. 571 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,880 It's absolutely vast, yeah. How many it's It's quite easy 572 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,640 sometimes to feel hopeless. How do you kind of keep your 573 00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:03,600 edges soft or remain hopeful? That's the tricky one because 574 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,760 you know, we're all breaking at the moment in the sector. 575 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,720 We're all really struggling. There's rescues closing down 576 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,920 left, right and centre, sometimes lack of resources, 577 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,680 sometimes they just can't do it anymore because it's just too 578 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,600 much. I think the most important thing 579 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,640 is connecting with other people in the sector and knowing that 580 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,440 you're not on your own, even though you've got your own team. 581 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,800 I think when you sort of reach out to the broader network and, 582 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,240 you know, we're all in the same position and we're all there for 583 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,520 each other, that to me is, is the most important thing. 584 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:41,560 And, and spending time really being present with the animals 585 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,840 and just constantly reminding yourself what you're doing this 586 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:46,480 for and who you're doing this for. 587 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,880 Yeah. Let's say for example, an 588 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,720 individual or family have some kind of extreme circumstances 589 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,760 and they need to rehome their dog. 590 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,440 What would a process typically look like? 591 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,920 The proper channel? And then on top of that, how if 592 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,160 it did kind of come to looking for rescues, how would they know 593 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,160 that a rescue is legitimate and that their dogs not just going 594 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,880 to be used for breeding or dog fighting or whatever? 595 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,600 Well, the first thing they, they probably would go and contact 596 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,880 the larger organisations first. That's typically where people 597 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,080 start. And then if they have no room or 598 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,480 they can't help, they will then hand out the list of the 599 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,240 Association of Dogs and Cats Homes. 600 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,680 And you can just Google adch.org and come up with all of those 601 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:43,200 recipes that have been vetted. And there's a lot of variety 602 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,880 within that list, but at least they have all been vetted. 603 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,720 So it's the safest place to start. 604 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,800 Now if someone calls me up, calls our rescue phone and wants 605 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,240 advice, I'm going to be asking different questions. 606 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,640 I want to know what breed is your dog, what age are they and 607 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,880 what behaviour stuff have we got going on initially? 608 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,480 That's what I want to know. Because if they say, for 609 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,000 instance, AI have a German Shepherd, I would say contact 610 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,200 German Shepherd Rescue Elite. They might say I have a French 611 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,640 Bulldog and I'll say, OK, you have a French bulldog, but what 612 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,120 behaviour stuff have we got going on? 613 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,520 Because we've got French Bulldog rescues, but some of them won't 614 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,320 touch behaviour issues, some of them will. 615 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,440 Maybe you need a bite history specialist, maybe you need a 616 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,360 rehab rescue. Are they a senior dog? 617 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,440 Can they go to a senior dog rescue? 618 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,080 Do they need foster care? Are they safe to go into foster 619 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,840 care? Do they really need kennel rehab 620 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,680 first? So we're looking at all of 621 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:43,840 these. So these are all the things that 622 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,440 I'm thinking when someone says to me, what rescue should I go 623 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,040 to? Because there's so many 624 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,520 different types. And I think that's that's 625 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,360 really, really important for people to know. 626 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,720 But it is hard. It's really hard for people to 627 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,400 know. Sometimes I'll get a message 628 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,600 from someone saying, is this rescue reputable? 629 00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:02,520 And I've never heard of them and they've popped up out of nowhere 630 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,000 and I don't know. So I'll go into a group chat 631 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,280 full of rescues, say, can anyone vouch for this person? 632 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:09,920 And sometimes no one's heard of them. 633 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,480 Sometimes they say, Oh yeah, they're really small, but 634 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,960 they're amazing. There's kind of an inside 635 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,239 insider thing to know, That's what makes it so difficult for 636 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,080 members of the public and some dodgy rescues are really 637 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,199 convincing. So I would say stick with the 638 00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:27,360 Association of Dogs and Cats Homes list, but understand that 639 00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:29,760 spaces are just so few and far between. 640 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,239 So before I even start talking about what sort of rescue I 641 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,639 would suggest people ring, I want to know is this a behaviour 642 00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:39,280 thing? Can we get you free or low cost 643 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,280 behaviour support? Is this a financial thing? 644 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,080 Can we put you on our food bank? Can we get you low cost vet 645 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,040 services? What can we do to try and keep 646 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,199 your job with you? And that's the most important 647 00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:52,679 thing at the moment is trying to keep your dog with you. 648 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,600 Because even if a dog can get into a rescue, there's so few 649 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,120 people adopting since lockdown that some dogs are sitting in 650 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:04,240 kennels for 2-3 years longer. And some organisations obviously 651 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:06,680 will have a policy that if a dog is struggling and not coping in 652 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,600 kennels, they'll be euthanized for their own well-being, for 653 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,840 their own welfare. So when people call up and say, 654 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,400 well, I'm working longer hours now and I say well, is your dog 655 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:16,840 distressed? Are they crying, barking? 656 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,320 No, I just feel sorry for them sat on the sofa all day. 657 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,520 I think, well, at a lot of places, your dog's going to sit 658 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,520 for 23 1/2 hours a day in a kennel, in a noisy kennel block, 659 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,600 but God knows how long. And I just wish people would 660 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,720 take more responsibility and understand the rescue's not a 661 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:37,040 magic fix. Yeah, there there are some 662 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,160 amazing places that are very homely for dogs and, you know, 663 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,680 have an amazing set up where your dog would be really happy. 664 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,560 But the spaces are so few and far between. 665 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,240 And I just urge anyone who's thinking of getting a dog to 666 00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:50,080 really consider all of these things. 667 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,680 You know, rescues are just typically used as a dumping 668 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,760 ground for people that just think, oh, it's just too much 669 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,520 like hard work or this isn't what I signed up for. 670 00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,720 I didn't know I was going to be dealing with these behaviours. 671 00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:01,560 And they just want rescues to jump in and deal with it. 672 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,800 We don't have the capacity anymore. 673 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,480 We like in the last 10 years, things have gotten so bad. 674 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,640 So the first thing is, don't get a dog in the 1st place if you're 675 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,240 not prepared for all of these things. 676 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:14,800 Do everything you can to keep your dog with you. 677 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,280 And if you are desperate for somewhere for them to go, 678 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,480 understand that the spaces are not there but you have to keep 679 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,000 trying for the reputable ones. But also you can never privately 680 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,320 rehome your dog that is just completely responsible and 681 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,840 unsafe because of all the hands that they could get into. 682 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,840 Yeah, so, so basically they, they shouldn't be going on 683 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:35,840 Facebook saying who can take my dog? 684 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,520 I can't look after my dog anymore. 685 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,480 Definitely, you know, no matter how desperate you get, and 686 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:47,240 unfortunately as saying that I've been using a lot is, you 687 00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:49,680 know, there are worse things in life than death. 688 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,920 And I will never tell someone to go and put their dog to sleep. 689 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,320 I think there's a million things you can do before before you get 690 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,080 to that point. I would never tell anyone to do 691 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,080 that. I will always give them their 692 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,120 options. But if you're going to hand your 693 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,000 dog to a stranger on the Internet and never seen them 694 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,560 again and never know what's happened to them, All of those 695 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:10,000 people who trusted their dogs with Steve, a poor rescue in 696 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:15,040 Billerkey who then had to read as the newspapers explained that 697 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,880 41 dog corpses had been dug up in this guy's garden. 698 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,920 And, and the the front there was 100 / 100 missing dogs. 699 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,080 People frantically desperate, wanting to know whether their 700 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,560 dogs were one of the dead, one of the missing, whether they'd 701 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,080 actually found their way into a home. 702 00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:32,640 And so many people don't know whatever happened to their dog. 703 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:37,040 And yeah, and when you're privately rehoming, it's even 704 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,400 worse. You just don't know. 705 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,640 So yeah, I mean, the whole system's gridlocked, and it 706 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,640 sounds really bleak, but it is really bleak. 707 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,520 Yeah, it is really bleak. So typically, so we're obviously 708 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,480 coming up to Christmas soon. We're in October at the moment. 709 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,880 And this weekend I was at Pets at Home and I heard someone, 710 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,560 well, the man and woman talk about how the puppies are right 711 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:06,400 on track for Christmas. And I just felt like this chill. 712 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,160 I don't know what their intentions are ultimately, you 713 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,720 know, it could be their own puppies for, you know, I don't 714 00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:16,400 know. And it's hard to speculate, but 715 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,760 Christmas is coming up and a lot of people are potentially going 716 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:25,840 to be trying to surprise their loved ones with a puppy for 717 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,200 Christmas. What would have you seen any 718 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,960 kind of patterns around that kind of trends? 719 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:35,920 What tends to happen throughout the year from a rescue 720 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,920 perspective typically? Well, we've all heard the slogan 721 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,920 haven't where dog is for life, not just for Christmas. 722 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,240 And if if that wasn't a big issue, then they wouldn't have 723 00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:48,400 made it their slogan. So yeah, that is a big issue. 724 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,400 January is always dump your dog month. 725 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,360 And sometimes it's the puppies that they didn't really want. 726 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,560 Sometimes it's the older dog in the house that's not coping with 727 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,480 the puppy. And people, as you know, want to 728 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:02,400 dump the older dog in the house, bring in like Christmas is for a 729 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,360 lot of households a really crazy time. 730 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,280 There's trees in the house, there's presents, there's 731 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,560 excitable children. It it's not a normal time, you 732 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:16,720 know, And to, to bring a dog into a home during that time is 733 00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:19,960 a really tricky thing sometimes for them to navigate, depending 734 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,680 on how they are as an individual. 735 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,000 Yeah. I just wish people wouldn't run 736 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,280 into these decisions. I think a lot of people are very 737 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,840 entitled and they just think, well, it's just what you do. 738 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,200 You get a dog and, you know, it either works out or it doesn't. 739 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:36,560 And if not, we'll just send them to a rescue. 740 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,720 I don't think anyone really gets a dog thinking we'll just send 741 00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:42,400 them to a rescue. But at the first time, a sign of 742 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,200 trouble people do. They just want to give them up. 743 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,400 So January is always a big one and it's always the the most 744 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,600 difficult for adoptions and donations as well, because 745 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,840 obviously everyone's spent their money at Christmas and in the 746 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,760 January sales and no one can donate. 747 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,480 So that just makes it a double whammy for the rescues trying to 748 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,640 pick up the pieces. That's so hard right after 749 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:03,360 Christmas, so nobody's got money. 750 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,920 You're operating on limited funds and then you've got 751 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,240 increased demand for your for your help and support. 752 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,680 That's a really tough place to be. 753 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,120 Yeah, I think summer as well is always a big one because it's 754 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,240 summer holidays, the kids are at home, the dogs are not 755 00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:21,200 necessarily used to having school aged kids at home all day 756 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,440 every day. Kids are winding the dog up, the 757 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:28,120 dogs getting stressed. A dog incident is most that is 758 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,720 much more likely to happen when it's stinking hot weather and 759 00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:33,880 everyone's stressed and too hot and then the kids are poking 760 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,960 around with the dog. So we always get a big spike in 761 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:44,160 the summer of especially parents that she can't be bothered. 762 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:45,760 Really. They can't be bothered to work 763 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,200 for it. They can't recognise the dog's 764 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,080 perspective. You know, the dog growled at my 765 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:51,120 child. They've got to go. 766 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,160 Oh, yeah. The dog requested space. 767 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:59,400 They used a normal communication method to not bite and to 768 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,400 explain very clearly that they'd had enough. 769 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,880 What's wrong with that? What happened to sleep in? 770 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,400 Don't let sleep in. Dogs lie. 771 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,640 So I would say if you're a parent and you really want a dog 772 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,960 and you know, for your kids, I would say if you, you just 773 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,200 imagine your child with a dog and if that dog growls at them, 774 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,120 are you going to be having a tantrum wanting them out of your 775 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,280 house? Because if you would don't get a 776 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,920 dog. Dogs need to be able to express 777 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,880 themselves and you need to as a guardian of the child and the 778 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,520 dog understand when that child is being too much. 779 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,320 You need to control your kids and you need to make that a safe 780 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,080 space for the dog. And if you can't do that and 781 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:37,320 you're not prepared to do that, just don't. 782 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,080 Just don't get involved in the first place because why should a 783 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,200 dog have to suppress how they feel and be frightened, be 784 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,240 pushed around And people who tarnish dogs for growling when 785 00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:50,680 they're just trying to communicate space in the most 786 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,280 hands off way possible, They're then going to cause a situation 787 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,120 where that dog is going to escalate into a bite because 788 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,040 they know no one's going to listen to that, that precursor, 789 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,080 that growl. So yes, some is always a big 790 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,760 one. I mean, people are ringing up 791 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,200 all throughout the year to be honest. 792 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,760 Do you think it's better to foster before you buy? 793 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,240 I think foster is a great idea, yeah, for lots of reasons. 794 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,440 I think when you so you personally, you've got your 795 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:25,000 first foster dog at the moment and how do you find it as as a 796 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,760 foster carer, what have you learned throughout this process 797 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,640 that you wouldn't have known if you jumped straight into 798 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,800 adoption? Oh, it's such an interesting 799 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:39,200 question actually, because I had a different vision of how it was 800 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,920 going to be, especially if you're a single person and you 801 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:50,600 are managing a very complex being their environment and 802 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,080 their needs and you know, that kind of thing. 803 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,360 You kind of do need a support network. 804 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:59,720 I think that's that's important. And I've was really lucky to 805 00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:03,240 have you and your support network, who you've very 806 00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:06,080 graciously and generously connected me with. 807 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:09,480 But yeah, lots of different things. 808 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,760 You know, you would typically think, OK, rescue dog, everyone 809 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,360 has an idea in their head what that looks like. 810 00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:23,400 But with Doona, she is a Galga, a Spanish Greyhound. 811 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:25,920 You know, she's she's she's fearful. 812 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,960 She's going through her integration decompression period 813 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,200 at the moment. Contextually, you've got to look 814 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,640 at it. OK, This is dog who lived and 815 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:40,440 worked and raced and hunted in Spain, was taken in a vehicle 816 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,920 over however many hours to come over to the UK to another foster 817 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,680 home, and then from that foster home came to my home. 818 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,160 So this, this poor dog doesn't know if it's coming or going, 819 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,760 you know, and it's just, I would imagine looking for some 820 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:58,000 consistency. So I am a committed fosterer and 821 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,880 she is the absolute centre of my world right now until she shows 822 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,640 a bit more of her character and I can see her growing in 823 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,000 confidence. But there's another added layer 824 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:13,160 to that where she has shown changes in her gait, which means 825 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,400 that her maybe her legs are going and that could potentially 826 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,880 explain why she was given up by her gal ghetto in the 1st place. 827 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,080 You know, when when a rescue gets the dog, they don't or 828 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,320 they're not, they do tests, many of them do, but they we don't 829 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,960 always know everything about the history of the dog. 830 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,320 And it could be that things show up later along the line. 831 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,000 So her nervousness could be because, you know, new 832 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,880 environment, new people learning to trust, all that kind of 833 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,040 stuff. And then that added complexity 834 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:46,200 of a potential injury. She could be in pain, you know, 835 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:47,920 contributing to that nervousness. 836 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:54,400 And so me taking a firm but fair approach is just completely not 837 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,200 it. I think people just think, well, 838 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,520 you know, dog's got to fit in with you and you've got to force 839 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,800 them into that box. And if if that that's people's 840 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,600 attitude, then they shouldn't be taking on a dog. 841 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,640 You know, we are keeping these animals captive in our homes. 842 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,640 And what I think is really beautiful about watching you go 843 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,360 through this process with Duna is that you're so curious every 844 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,200 step of the way. You want to know as much as you 845 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,400 can about how she's feeling and what's impacting her. 846 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,520 And as soon as I said about, you know, laminate flooring and 847 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,160 traction on the floor and you're putting rugs down and you're 848 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,400 booking in with the vets and making sure that her hips are OK 849 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:35,480 and trying to do everything that we can to make this experience 850 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,600 as comfortable for her as possible because she didn't ask 851 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,960 to be here. I think it's really hard 852 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,520 sometimes. Sometimes dogs walk straight 853 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,320 into a home and it's like they've always been there and 854 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,400 it's super easy and they glide through. 855 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,280 Sometimes it doesn't work out that way and you do have to be 856 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,720 prepared for all eventualities. So to go back to your original 857 00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:56,920 question, I think fostering is a great idea because if you were 858 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:01,960 going to temporarily foster Junior, you might think, OK, I'm 859 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,280 here to be her stepping stone and to find out as much about 860 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,200 her as possible to find her the right home. 861 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,200 And you might during that process, think I actually 862 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,160 wouldn't be able to take on a dog permanently who has who's 863 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,440 not able to be left because I live on my own or I need a dog 864 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,080 who has got a very, very good musculoskeletal system because 865 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,800 they would need to be able to navigate using stairs or there's 866 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,720 all these things you're not just learning about her, you're 867 00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:33,520 learning about yourself. Yes, because when you're taking 868 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,920 on a dog who's a commitment, you know, you could be looking at 10 869 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:41,160 years, 15 years of your life. And yeah, you do want the right 870 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:42,520 match. You want the right match for you 871 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,000 as well as the right match for the dog. 872 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:46,720 And, and a lot of our foster carers, we call them failed 873 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:51,040 fosters because they will foster a number of dogs and then 874 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,520 eventually say, no, this one is my heart and soul. 875 00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,680 And they, they need to stay and they'll end up adopting. 876 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,320 So I think it's, it's really good way to get to know a dog 877 00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,120 and to get them out of kennels and to be that stepping stone. 878 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,160 And then ultimately if they work out to be the perfect match for 879 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,720 you, then then they're already with you. 880 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,960 You've got the rescue support. I don't see any downsides to 881 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:11,960 fostering. Same, same. 882 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,040 I mean, you've. Yeah, it's exactly that. 883 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:15,520 You. You realise so many different 884 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:16,000 things. You. 885 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,480 It's like I always say, you don't know what you don't know. 886 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,240 And so these things kind of reveal themselves to you, you 887 00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:26,760 know, how do you what comes up when you are unsure or 888 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:28,520 uncertain? What comes up for you 889 00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,960 emotionally when you just not understanding what they need or 890 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,320 you know, when you're rushing and the dog isn't working with 891 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,680 you and you can't communicate with each other. 892 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:42,320 So it you learn a lot in that process about yourself. 893 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,880 You learn a lot about the dog. You learn a lot about the 894 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:50,560 support system set up in society to help you look after you know 895 00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,680 your animal and you do you learn about your immediate network and 896 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,200 also their morals and values and how they would approach things. 897 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:03,000 There's so many different factors to consider and and also 898 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,400 misconceptions. So now I would give that 899 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:13,640 question back to you because when I speak of a rescue dog, 900 00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,640 people have their own ideas about what that means or what 901 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,400 that looks like. And people that I've spoken to 902 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,000 who are considering buying dogs, I've been like, have you ever 903 00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,400 fostered before or have you ever, you know what? 904 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,040 Why not adopt? Not in a judgy way, but just 905 00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:29,480 like, you know, that's an option. 906 00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:36,120 And typically there's this misconception I feel when it 907 00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,800 comes to rescue dogs. So have you, do you know kind of 908 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,400 some what some of those misconceptions are? 909 00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,000 Yeah, I mean, you'll see lots of people. 910 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,160 There's a difference between rescue and rehoming. 911 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,560 When people think of rescue dogs, they think RSPCA advert, 912 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,960 they think abuse, don't want to know you, are they dangerous? 913 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:57,520 Are they aggressive? Are they scared? 914 00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,760 Can they do the things that can they? 915 00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:01,960 Yeah, do the things that you would envision your life 916 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:06,400 involving with a dog. I think ultimately, yeah, the. 917 00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:09,720 Every dog is different and it's about finding the right match. 918 00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:13,360 And there's so many amazing dogs out there who are bomb proof and 919 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,600 ready to go. The difference between rescuing, 920 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:18,960 taking a dog out of an awful situation. 921 00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,680 Some of them bounce out of there very resilient and go straight 922 00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,240 into homes. Others don't. 923 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,080 When it comes to rehoming, yeah, you get we got people who who 924 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:33,880 pass away or move abroad or. And the dogs don't have any sort 925 00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,840 of problematic, what humans would consider problematic 926 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,200 behaviours at all. There's loads of dogs out there 927 00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:44,960 like that, but there are also increasing numbers of dogs who 928 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:49,160 are struggling because there's really awful advice out there, 929 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,240 really dangerous advice online, which I do think has been 930 00:49:53,240 --> 00:49:57,680 exacerbated by TikTok and all of the wannabe trainers that popped 931 00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,680 up during COVID. Because obviously training and 932 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,760 behaviour is completely unregulated too, and people are 933 00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,760 following this dangerous advice and making the world an even 934 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,800 more difficult place for dogs to live in. 935 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,240 And they're bullying these dogs in their own home, calling it 936 00:50:10,240 --> 00:50:14,760 training, not understanding the dog's perspective or their point 937 00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,280 of view. So yeah, we are seeing increase 938 00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:22,280 in numbers of dogs who have been really psychologically damaged 939 00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:27,720 by these balanced trainers who are more interested in control 940 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:32,200 and pushing a dog to complete a certain task than they are 941 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,240 looking at dog centred care and the emotional well-being of that 942 00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:39,000 dog and the emotional experience of that dog, which is ultimately 943 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,600 what we need to be looking at and working with to get them 944 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,240 where they need to be. So there's so much bad 945 00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:47,960 information out there. They're so easily accessible. 946 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,080 The internet's the most accessible form of information 947 00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:51,880 that we have. A lot of people don't have the 948 00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:53,840 funds. And even if people do have the 949 00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,800 funds to go and get a trainer or a behaviourist, they don't 950 00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,720 necessarily know whether that person is trustworthy. 951 00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:04,320 They've got a fancy website and testimonials and videos on 952 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:09,000 social media that show seemingly show results. 953 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,800 And yeah, I mean, there's a lot of dogs that are being impacted 954 00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,960 by this. And I think as a society, we all 955 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,120 need to step up. We need to be regulating 956 00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,440 trainers and behaviourists. We need to be doing more to 957 00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:28,000 bring more affordable vet care. Yeah, we, we just need to be 958 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,760 supporting our dogs and our dog guardians out there. 959 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,480 They could. Yeah, it's, it's hard that there 960 00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,360 are a lot of misconceptions, but I think what people need to 961 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,600 really realise is that like, like us, dogs are all 962 00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,800 individuals, they're all different and your match will be 963 00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,560 out there in a rescue somewhere. I think people get very 964 00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,920 impatient. They want to adopt A dog, they 965 00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:49,680 want to take on a dog and they want one tomorrow. 966 00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,280 They're not prepared to wait. So when the when the reputable 967 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:57,440 UK rescues are saying, OK, well, let's get you on a list, let's 968 00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,560 find you a right match. Let's let's do it properly. 969 00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:02,200 Let's say this is this is taking too long. 970 00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:03,760 I can get one flown in from Romania. 971 00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:05,920 They'll get dropped off my doorstep next week in a van. 972 00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:10,240 Why should I wait for you? And then they do that and with 973 00:52:10,240 --> 00:52:12,320 varying results. So it's hard. 974 00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,080 I think we have a throwaway society. 975 00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:15,640 I think people are very impatient. 976 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,360 I think people want the perfect dog just delivered to the 977 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,760 doorstep who's not allowed to put a foot wrong or have any 978 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:24,280 opinions or have any feelings. And if they do, then they're on 979 00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,800 the chomping block is it's hard. There are some also really great 980 00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,120 people out there, really fantastic adopters out there. 981 00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,680 But we are seeing increasing numbers of very impatient people 982 00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:35,840 with very unrealistic expectations. 983 00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:40,360 Yeah, and especially like when it comes to rehoming dogs or 984 00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,040 dogs kind of just being discarded on the side of the 985 00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:44,760 street. Because I've, I've recently, 986 00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,240 especially on places like Facebook, been seeing a lot 987 00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:51,320 more, you know, of dogs just being found without, you know, 988 00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,840 their, their collars on or, or their name tags. 989 00:52:55,840 --> 00:53:02,160 Just out of curiosity before someone so let's say somebody is 990 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:06,360 considering rehoming their dog because of behaviour issues. 991 00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:12,480 What could other reasons be that impact the dog's behaviour that 992 00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:18,640 they might not be aware of? Well, Daniel Mills study has 993 00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:22,600 shown that around 80% of dogs who are displaying problem 994 00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,840 behaviours, anything from separation anxiety to follow on 995 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:30,720 riots, is experiencing pain. And I think a lot of people 996 00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:33,160 dismiss that and they say, no, my dog's not in pain. 997 00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,840 My dog's seen a vet. My dog can run, jump, do this, 998 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:38,880 do that. There's no way my dog's in pain. 999 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,200 And that's incredibly unfair and, and untrue in a lot of 1000 00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:47,760 cases. It's hard because when a vet is 1001 00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:52,640 in a consult room with your dog, they've got 1015 minutes Max and 1002 00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:54,920 that dog's got so much adrenaline going on that they're 1003 00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,680 potentially hiding symptoms, hiding things. 1004 00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,400 A lot of vets are actually not trained specifically in 1005 00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,800 identifying and managing pain. That is a whole specialist area 1006 00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,840 of veterinary medicine and I think it's dismissed a lot. 1007 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,320 I think that a lot of people don't realise that resource 1008 00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:14,160 guard in all of these sorts of behaviours are symptoms of pain. 1009 00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:18,280 They just, you know, they, they just though there was a, some 1010 00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,160 people that I was trying to help recently, their Labrador was 1011 00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,960 resource guarding and the vet suspected maybe some hip 1012 00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,400 dysplasia and they said, no, this dog can't have hip 1013 00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,040 dysplasia because before he was neutered, he was humping my kids 1014 00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:31,520 and he's using his hips to do that. 1015 00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:32,960 So there's no way this dog's in pain. 1016 00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:36,680 And some, it just completely blows my mind because, you know, 1017 00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,840 if you've got a sore shoulder, you you're going to reach for 1018 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,040 that chocolate bar on the top shelf or you're not going to do 1019 00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:43,760 it because you've got, I don't know. 1020 00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:46,560 Yeah, pain is definitely a big one. 1021 00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:48,640 But we also need to look at environmental factors. 1022 00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:51,840 We need to look at ourselves. Everyone's so quick to blame 1023 00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,240 dogs without actually taking a look at themselves and their 1024 00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:56,440 behaviour and the environment and what they're expecting that 1025 00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,920 dog to manage. Maybe a dog's got noise 1026 00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,640 sensitivity. Again, that can be driven by 1027 00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:04,600 pain. There's just so many things. 1028 00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,520 And I think This is why it's really important to get start 1029 00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:11,360 off with the trainer and we need to need these professionals that 1030 00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:13,880 are prepared to refer on to people with more knowledge than 1031 00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:16,440 themselves. We can't be having egos in these 1032 00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:18,840 jobs. All the best behaviourists I 1033 00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:21,800 know if if they hit a glass ceiling and they've sort of 1034 00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,520 looked into everything that they understand and they can't find a 1035 00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,080 reason, they'll be referring on to veterinary behaviourists, 1036 00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:31,880 vets who are properly qualified behaviourists as well. 1037 00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,240 Most vets don't have good behaviour knowledge. 1038 00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:37,320 I've heard some absolutely abhorrent advice coming from 1039 00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,440 veterinary professionals when it comes to behaviour and I think 1040 00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:44,360 more vets need to let go of the fact that they don't know what 1041 00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:46,280 they don't know. They're great at what they do. 1042 00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:48,200 A lot of them are not great at behaviour. 1043 00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:50,840 They need to be referring on to good vet behaviours. 1044 00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,000 And I think there's a lot, a lot of professionals that sort of 1045 00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,200 have the attitude of, well, if I can't help, nobody can and this 1046 00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,480 must be a lost cause. I think we need to be getting 1047 00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:04,080 second opinions and we need to be, yeah, we, I think it needs 1048 00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,440 to just become normalised, getting second opinions and 1049 00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,760 networking and trying to get the right answers. 1050 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,680 What I've seen so far is that people get really desperate 1051 00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,200 before they look for help. And at that point they were 1052 00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,040 already kind of like, they'll just take anyone. 1053 00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:21,000 The first person who speaks with confidence, you know, and sound 1054 00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,880 legit that they'll take it. You know what I mean? 1055 00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:28,560 It's just trying to, I guess, solve a problem as quickly as 1056 00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:32,480 possible because they've left it so long before they took action. 1057 00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:36,480 Sometimes it's really simple when you really start digging 1058 00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,240 into it with people. There was a couple whose dog was 1059 00:56:39,240 --> 00:56:41,320 really snapping at the children and they were getting really 1060 00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:42,400 concerned. And when they talked through 1061 00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,680 everything with me, this dog. So the children were 1062 00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,200 homeschooled, so there was always a busy household, always 1063 00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,360 lots going on. And the kids were allowed to 1064 00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:52,080 climb into the dog's bed whenever they fancied. 1065 00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,160 The dog didn't have anywhere they could go and rest. 1066 00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:59,920 This dog was so tired, so tired and once I, I said to them, 1067 00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:03,760 look, just just humour me and try this a safe space for them 1068 00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,040 to go. You can put a baby pen around 1069 00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:09,200 it, stop the kids go into them or draw a line on the floor or 1070 00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,200 get like coloured tape and tape it onto the lino. 1071 00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:14,440 So we we've got a visual line that we could teach the 1072 00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:16,960 children. We don't go past this line and 1073 00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,960 give your dog plenty of time to get good rest and sleep. 1074 00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,280 Couple of weeks later they're bringing me up saying we've got 1075 00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:24,080 a different dog here. Like it can sometimes just be 1076 00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:28,240 that simple. So yeah, it's, it's good. 1077 00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:30,560 Sometimes I like to dig into it with people on the phone because 1078 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,800 sometimes you can just go up. I can see, I can see where there 1079 00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:36,240 might be an issue here. Sometimes that's not all of it, 1080 00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,200 but sometimes it is. So I think we do need to think 1081 00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:41,760 outside the box, but we need to look at basic needs before we 1082 00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,280 start saying, well, I want a dog to behave like this. 1083 00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,080 The way I'm going to do that is put a prong collar on them or 1084 00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,440 I'm going to put an E collar on them and ZAP them or I'm going 1085 00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:51,760 to shout at them. I'm going to, you know, remove 1086 00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,360 their favourite thing or use punishment or why don't we just 1087 00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,600 look at what the dog is asking? We need to really think about 1088 00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,760 the fact that behaviour is communication. 1089 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:02,680 They don't have any other way to communicate with us. 1090 00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:04,880 So if a dog is doing something out of the ordinary or a bit 1091 00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:11,040 bizarre or a bit problematic to humans, as some would say, we 1092 00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:12,960 need to be asking ourselves why? What are they trying to 1093 00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:14,440 communicate? What is it that they need? 1094 00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:20,560 What do we need to give them? It's really hard, yeah, really, 1095 00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:24,240 really hard to do that because it requires a shift in 1096 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:28,320 perspective or just a way of thinking and looking at dogs 1097 00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,440 because we tend to think about them as, you know, they are here 1098 00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,040 and they need to fit into our world. 1099 00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,920 But ultimately that they're trying to communicate with us 1100 00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,560 all day, every day. And and being able to see, 1101 00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:44,000 really see is such AI feel like such a skill and it's also such 1102 00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,440 a for me anyway, it's such a welcome challenge. 1103 00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,320 I find it so intriguing and so interesting to try and pick up 1104 00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,440 on the subtle ways that Dunas trying to communicate with me. 1105 00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:57,080 Something as simple as when I go to put a harness on, you know, 1106 00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:00,080 does she lift her head or does she turn away completely? 1107 00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,800 She's telling me I don't want to go for a walk. 1108 00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,320 I don't need to go for a wee right now, you know, silly 1109 00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:08,640 things like that. You just think like, wow, or 1110 00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,800 she'll come to me and she'll just like, you know, put her 1111 00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:16,000 little snoot underneath my hand or my arm or something, and that 1112 00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,640 means please pet me, You know, little things like that. 1113 00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:23,520 I just think it's so beautiful. When you tune in, it really 1114 00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,680 strengthens the bond with the dog and it becomes something 1115 00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:30,120 really special and magical. That's what makes you the 1116 00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,680 perfect foster carer. Honestly, if everyone thought 1117 00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:37,440 like that then rescues would be so thrilled. 1118 00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:40,960 Do you know what, I think a lot of it, I don't want to take all 1119 00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:44,400 that credit because I do have the time, you know, I don't have 1120 00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:48,880 any other dependents. But I do think that, yeah, you 1121 00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:52,160 kind of you have to be present for it. 1122 00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:56,720 And I think a lot of families are really busy and, you know, 1123 00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,560 especially with our kids, there's a lot of pressures that 1124 00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,360 take you away from the present moment. 1125 01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:04,760 So it's really hard to focus on the dog and the dog's needs in 1126 01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:08,440 those moments because you're just in survival mode yourself, 1127 01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:10,960 you know? So I can understand why people 1128 01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,720 don't TuneIn more than they tune out. 1129 01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,920 But it is so important for, I guess, the well-being of the dog 1130 01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:21,560 over the long term because ultimately, you know. 1131 01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,760 It's like you said, the dogs are captive and what kind of 1132 01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:28,920 experience are we giving them over the entire duration of 1133 01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:33,960 their lives? It's so if I died and came back 1134 01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:37,880 in another life as a dog, I would hope I would end up in a 1135 01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:41,560 in a lovely, caring family that tuned in rather than tuned out. 1136 01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:44,600 So yeah. What are some of the behaviours 1137 01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:48,800 that you've seen in dogs after they've been, you know, given up 1138 01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:52,360 or rescued? Kind of like how do they adapt 1139 01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:57,400 after they're no longer with their guardian, their original 1140 01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,760 guardians? Some better than others. 1141 01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:05,800 I think people expect that if a dog has been rescued from 1142 01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,880 suboptimal conditions or downright awful conditions, that 1143 01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:14,480 they're going to sort of be really grateful and really 1144 01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:16,880 pleased. And, but actually when you take 1145 01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:21,320 in a traumatised individual out everything they know, everything 1146 01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:24,960 that's familiar, everything that they can depend on, even if they 1147 01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:27,080 can depend on the fact that no one's going to bring them food, 1148 01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:31,240 it completely shakes their world and their foundations. 1149 01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:37,120 And sometimes they do completely fall apart because they, and 1150 01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:39,320 obviously they don't know where you've taken them. 1151 01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,240 They don't understand what your intentions are. 1152 01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:45,200 They don't know who you are. And when dogs get surrendered 1153 01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:48,160 into rescues from families, yeah, sometimes they're curled 1154 01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,360 up in the corner of the kennel broken. 1155 01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:53,560 There's loads of, like, videos on social media of like, 1156 01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:56,080 absolutely broken dogs just sat with their head down in the 1157 01:01:56,080 --> 01:02:00,320 corner of the kennel. And sometimes you get big 1158 01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:03,360 explosive behaviours and they get really big feelings and they 1159 01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:04,600 don't understand what's going on. 1160 01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,000 Sometimes they just mentally and emotionally shut down. 1161 01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,480 Sometimes they sail through and they just come in and say right, 1162 01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:14,480 who's who's got the treats and, and they, they seem to adapt 1163 01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:18,200 really well. But yeah, I, I do think it's 1164 01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,600 something that people don't think enough about when they 1165 01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:22,920 want to give up a dog, especially when their reasons 1166 01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:25,800 are seemingly quite trivial for wanting to give a dog up. 1167 01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:28,640 I don't think they really realise the impact that's going 1168 01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:32,280 to have. On the dog after they they're 1169 01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,160 out of sight. Yeah. 1170 01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:38,840 And I think even dogs coming out of kennels going into a home as 1171 01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:40,800 much as yeah, when they settle into that home, they're going to 1172 01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,960 absolutely love it. But to start with, depends on 1173 01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:46,160 how long they've been there. They know when their walkies 1174 01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:48,680 come in and what time food is happening and they know all 1175 01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:51,120 their handlers there if they then go into a home. 1176 01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:54,920 And then you've got Auntie Sally and all of the cousins around 1177 01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:57,440 the next day to meet you. And they're all in your face and 1178 01:02:57,720 --> 01:02:59,600 you don't know what's going on. You don't know these people and 1179 01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:02,960 everyone's trying to touch you and they're in your face and 1180 01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:06,000 it's terrifying. And I don't think people think 1181 01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:07,600 about that. You know, you can't have 1182 01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:09,920 visitors. You can't be doing these things 1183 01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:16,200 because we, we will never truly understand how each other 1184 01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:18,840 perceives the world. You and I are humans that can 1185 01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:23,920 have a discussion about this, let alone people, animals that 1186 01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:26,840 we can't communicate with. We will never truly understand 1187 01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:31,520 their perception and the way that they navigate the world and 1188 01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:34,440 the way they see things and their lived experience. 1189 01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:37,600 So we could, we just got to do the best that we can. 1190 01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:41,040 I think anyone that's sort of coming in saying, yeah, give me 1191 01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:45,280 some money and I, I will get this dog to perform in this way 1192 01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:47,480 that you want so that they fit into your life. 1193 01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,280 And they're just completely looking past the fact that there 1194 01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:53,160 is an individual here that no one's listening to. 1195 01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:56,920 It's just far too common. It's far too common. 1196 01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:59,360 People's expectations are absolutely ridiculous. 1197 01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,560 They just want these individuals to come in and sort of become 1198 01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:06,720 part of the furniture, you know, with very little effort. 1199 01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:09,280 And it's just doesn't work like that. 1200 01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:11,800 It's the fantasy. That's what I've realised. 1201 01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,800 There's a fantasy through the media, through social media, 1202 01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:18,880 Like it all builds to get this idea of what it would be like. 1203 01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:20,880 And the reality is quite different. 1204 01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:23,360 It's very revealing. It's very, it can be 1205 01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:25,960 confronting, but it's also really beautiful. 1206 01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:29,040 It's so much more magical than I thought it was going to be. 1207 01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:35,200 So again, like, yeah, positive, negative, depending on your 1208 01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:40,040 outlook, but yeah, it's it is a real mixed bag like it would be 1209 01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:44,560 with another human being, you know, But this, this being 1210 01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:47,840 completely is completely reliant and dependent on you. 1211 01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:50,880 So it's a massive responsibility that people definitely should 1212 01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:53,640 not take lightly, especially around Christmas time. 1213 01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:57,280 So I didn't, I've never heard of decompression before I got 1214 01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:01,680 Doona. And now I understand the the 1215 01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:07,200 importance of giving them the dog Grace for the duration of a 1216 01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:10,600 decompression period. For those who might not know, 1217 01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:13,680 what is a decompression period? What does it look like? 1218 01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:20,800 Well, it's an indefinite period of time where any, anybody I saw 1219 01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,000 dogs, you know, we need to sort of calm our nervous system and 1220 01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,920 get to know our new environment and our new surroundings. 1221 01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:30,840 And really, you know, a dog is really taking you in and getting 1222 01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:34,040 to know you and finding out all about you and your lifestyle and 1223 01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:37,360 what might be expected of them. That it's such an overwhelming 1224 01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:42,200 time and it can be for months. So we need to just expect very 1225 01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:46,120 little. We need to be very, very open to 1226 01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:50,800 learning from the dog all about who they are and what they need 1227 01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:58,000 from us. We need to be very selfless and 1228 01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:02,040 really mindful of their experience and what they might 1229 01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:05,520 be going through. We don't have friends visiting, 1230 01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,160 we don't go out and leave them for hours on end. 1231 01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:12,040 We don't expect them to cope with going to busy places and 1232 01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:18,960 sitting in cafes and pubs. And we know we can look at it 1233 01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:26,120 like a bucket, a stress bucket. So you have, you know, the, the 1234 01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:30,040 dog's got their, their bucket and first thing in the morning 1235 01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:33,760 they might need a wing and there might be house trains. 1236 01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:38,360 So they might know that there's no ideal to go indoors and that 1237 01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,440 sort of stress of waiting to be let out fills up their stress 1238 01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:43,920 bucket a little bit. Then he let them out, they come 1239 01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:45,640 back. Then you're making breakfast in 1240 01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:48,040 the kitchen and you drop a food bowl on the floor and it clangs 1241 01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:49,680 and makes a noise and it makes them jump. 1242 01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,000 And then it fills the stress bucket up a little bit more. 1243 01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:55,200 And then the window cleaner comes and that's very spooky. 1244 01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:58,120 And that that fills it up a little bit more. 1245 01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:01,040 And then you take them out for a walk and then a loud car goes 1246 01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:02,640 past and then another dog barks over. 1247 01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:04,480 Then we're filling up that stress bucket even more. 1248 01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:07,720 And then Aunt Sally comes over and starts poking and touching 1249 01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:09,280 you. And then you're trying to sleep, 1250 01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:11,760 but you've got you're in a terraced house and you can hear 1251 01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,800 the neighbours and it's very concerning because you can hear 1252 01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:16,200 a dog barking next door and you don't know whether they can get 1253 01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:18,120 to you. Stress buckets even more full. 1254 01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,000 All of a sudden the stress bucket is overflowing. 1255 01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:23,920 The dog's either shutting down or having big feelings or big 1256 01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:25,840 behaviours. And people say that came out of 1257 01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:28,280 nowhere. They came out of nowhere. 1258 01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:30,960 It didn't come out of nowhere. It was building up the whole 1259 01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:32,880 time and they weren't paying attention. 1260 01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:37,600 And what decompression is all about is not filling up that 1261 01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:40,680 stress bucket, like doing everything we can to not fill up 1262 01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:42,960 the stress bucket, but also poking holes in the bottom of 1263 01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:45,920 the bucket to drain the stress back out. 1264 01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:51,520 Licking activities, sniffing back, molar, chewing, all really 1265 01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:52,640 good thing. Making sure they're having 1266 01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:56,560 plenty of sleep, not asking too much of them and just really low 1267 01:07:56,560 --> 01:08:03,080 in that quarters all to settle. And now that can take, it really 1268 01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:05,200 can take months. People underestimate how long 1269 01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:08,680 that actually takes. And every time a dog has a 1270 01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:11,960 stressful experience, even if it doesn't seem stressful to us in 1271 01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:16,200 in their world, if they perceive that as stressful, then they are 1272 01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:20,520 going to have very real stress hormones that we can test and 1273 01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:24,200 find in their system. And it's going to take maybe 36 1274 01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:28,600 hours for that to settle. So if you do take them out for a 1275 01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:32,680 walk and they get overwhelmed, they might not want to walk for 1276 01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,600 the next three days. They just might want to do some 1277 01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,680 licking, sniff in chewing activities, a bit of free work. 1278 01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:44,279 Go on YouTube, type in Ace, ACE free work, Sarah Fisher, all of 1279 01:08:44,279 --> 01:08:47,720 these things we can do indoors. Empty the stress bucket. 1280 01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:52,359 Does that answer your question? It does, yeah. 1281 01:08:52,359 --> 01:08:55,960 I guess it's also understanding that the decompression period is 1282 01:08:55,960 --> 01:09:02,000 not the time for teaching a dog how to sit, how to, you know, 1283 01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:06,680 all that kind of stuff. It's not, you know, kind of the 1284 01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:11,840 period to how do I say this? Yeah, to be firm. 1285 01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:15,359 I kind of feel that like that's a natural instinct for people 1286 01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:19,920 when they receive a dog out of fear of potential poor 1287 01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:23,120 behaviours, perceived poor behaviours manifesting later 1288 01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,359 along the line. They try and kind of like nip it 1289 01:09:25,359 --> 01:09:29,200 in the bud early on and be like, you know, oh, must get the dog 1290 01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:34,319 to do XYZ, you know, things like recall. 1291 01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:40,720 Why is this specific period of time not optimal for teaching a 1292 01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:43,800 dog new things? The most important thing during 1293 01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:47,240 this time is trust. It's earning their trust. 1294 01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:49,640 It's letting them know that you're going to listen to them, 1295 01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:53,479 you're going to hear them and and yet to feel safe. 1296 01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:56,960 The the number one most important thing is for a dog to 1297 01:09:56,960 --> 01:10:00,720 feel safe physically, emotionally, socially. 1298 01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,080 Without that feeling of safety, you have no foundation for 1299 01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:05,520 training. We shouldn't be doing any sort 1300 01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:09,360 of training. For me, I'm not super interested 1301 01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:11,800 in training. I'm interested in well-being 1302 01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:14,120 though. We teach life skills, you know, 1303 01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:16,760 if they need to be on a lead for their own safety, we need them 1304 01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:19,160 to feel comfortable. We need to understand what's 1305 01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:21,040 going on. We need them to feel comfortable 1306 01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:24,880 with that handling because as a society we put that on them. 1307 01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:27,080 And then the very least we can do is make sure that they're 1308 01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:29,240 comfortable with that and they understand what's going on 1309 01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:31,880 there. So we do life skills is 1310 01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:33,320 important. We don't want to be running out 1311 01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:36,640 in roads. We don't want to be, you know, 1312 01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:39,160 all sorts of things that might be dangerous for them. 1313 01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,880 But for me, the most important thing is the dog not be 1314 01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:47,000 performing and doing tricks. It's really just for them to 1315 01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:49,840 feel safe and to trust their human. 1316 01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:53,720 And I think that is the biggest mark of success on on the 1317 01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:56,960 journey is getting to that point where they they trust you and 1318 01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:00,360 then they can. Yeah, feel safe around you. 1319 01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,520 When things are scary out in the real world, you're their base 1320 01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:07,560 and they know that you're going to support them and you're going 1321 01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:09,720 to listen and you're going to take them away from scary 1322 01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:11,440 things, not walk them towards scary things. 1323 01:11:11,440 --> 01:11:13,040 You're going to be paying attention, listening to their 1324 01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:15,840 body language and really understanding what they can and 1325 01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:17,840 can't cope with. And, and that is the foundation 1326 01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:19,280 of everything. If you skip that in the 1327 01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:21,880 beginning and you can start bullying a dog, telling them 1328 01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:26,960 what to do and getting all interested in, in all of these 1329 01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:31,840 really unimportant things, it might be something that's 1330 01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:34,080 important to you. But yeah, I just think there's a 1331 01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:36,360 time and a place and, and the beginning is not the time and 1332 01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:38,040 the place for that. Dogs are very intelligent. 1333 01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:42,440 They want to learn. They they want to, you know, but 1334 01:11:42,440 --> 01:11:46,840 they do want to live a harmonious life with us because 1335 01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:49,920 they have to live with us. And, and if they understand, 1336 01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:55,360 then, you know, maybe they'll listen, but maybe not. 1337 01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:57,840 Maybe we're asking them to do something that's not preferable. 1338 01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:00,720 Maybe we want them to sit and they have got a sore hip and 1339 01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:02,800 then we're punishing them for not sitting and not complying 1340 01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:04,280 with what we want. But they can't because they're 1341 01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:06,320 sore. So if you can't read the dog and 1342 01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:08,760 you're not understanding them and you haven't got to know them 1343 01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:12,760 and watched exactly how they are when they're just them, what 1344 01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:15,360 they choose to do, what they feel comfortable with, what they 1345 01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:17,680 enjoy, what their natural choices aren't. 1346 01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:18,920 Yeah. How? 1347 01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:20,760 Yeah. How can you train when you have 1348 01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:23,160 no foundation and you can't train a. 1349 01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:26,680 If a dog is in pain like we do not where you found out that the 1350 01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:29,120 behaviours that she's exhibiting now a bit tricky. 1351 01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:32,800 Oh, it's a pain response. You can't train someone out of a 1352 01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:35,600 pain response. You can't suppress someone's 1353 01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:39,520 pain response. So yeah, it's your foundation. 1354 01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:43,400 It's so easy to expect something or someone or to adapt better 1355 01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:45,760 than we do. But actually it's only been a 1356 01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:48,200 month. It's only been just over a month 1357 01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:51,280 with my foster dog. Like these things take time. 1358 01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:54,240 And so that patience is super important. 1359 01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:58,120 I feel So, Yeah. I'm Jenna. 1360 01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:00,760 I am so grateful to have had you on the podcast. 1361 01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:02,520 I really, really enjoyed our chat. 1362 01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:04,200 Thank you so much for coming on. Yeah. 1363 01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:05,120 Thanks for having me.