1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:05,120 This week on Just a Dog podcast, I'm joined by Hassan Yit Akash. 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:10,880 Hassan is an animal behaviourist and ethical breeder specialising 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,400 in primitive and spits breeds such as Akitas, Shebas, Huskies 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,840 and Shikokus. Originally from Turkey and 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,720 Kazakhstan and now based in Lithuania, Hassan combines 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,920 academic study in animal psychology and behaviour with 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,880 hands on experience gained from horse sanctuaries, wolf dogs and 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:34,240 generations of family breeding. His philosophy centres on trust, 9 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,080 respect and breeding practises that prioritise the health, the 10 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,760 temperament and the long term welfare of both dogs and their 11 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,760 future guardians. Right on with this week's 12 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:55,000 episode. Son, welcome to the podcast. 13 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,200 I'm so happy to have you here. Thank you. 14 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:58,920 Thank you for having me. Amazing. 15 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,120 So we've already spoken very briefly. 16 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,200 You're joining us from Lithuania in the middle of nowhere, 17 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,680 surrounded by complete darkness and quiet. 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:09,520 Where are your dogs at the moment? 19 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:11,520 They're all asleep in the living room. 20 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,640 After a long walk, they're now done. 21 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,480 That's it. Amazing. 22 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,800 Where do you normally take them for a walk in the woods? 23 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,120 Yeah, so we normally do. We normally do between like 2 to 24 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,320 4 kilometres through the woods, like the woodland area. 25 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,560 There's like a really cool track that people follow sometimes for 26 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,520 picking mushrooms because that's super popular here. 27 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,400 But yeah, we go along that route and depending on the day, 28 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,280 sometimes it's two, sometimes it's four. 29 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,000 Sometimes we'll walk the coast completely because we live right 30 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,200 near the beach too. So ends up becoming 6 kilometres 31 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:45,920 in the end. But yeah. 32 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,000 Depends on the day but yeah regardless. 33 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,080 They come home with 0 energy and the last thing they want to do 34 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,360 is wake up or do anything else so they just sleep after that. 35 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:56,800 I'm so envious. You've got the best of all the 36 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:58,840 world's there. You've got a forest, so you've 37 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,360 got the beach. Peace and quiet without, like 38 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,320 the remoteness without anybody there. 39 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:04,640 Yeah, exactly. Beautiful. 40 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,360 And a son. I would love to know more about 41 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:13,040 how you became a breeder. Sure it was an accident really. 42 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,320 My dog just started gaining weight and a lot of weight and 43 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,160 naturally as a concern and I just took it to the vet and said 44 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,520 this is happening, you know, what can you do about it? 45 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,080 And they basically said nothing to worry about, it's a phantom 46 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,320 pregnancy. If you don't know what that is, 47 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:27,360 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. 48 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,840 And I already knew what it was and so I was OK. 49 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,120 If you're saying it's a phantom pregnancy and you've done a scan 50 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,520 and they did no problem, that's fine. 51 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,200 And then a few weeks after that, again, more weight gain. 52 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,360 And I didn't really worry about it because I was like, OK, they 53 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,240 said it's a phantom pregnancy, so nothing to worry about here 54 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,080 really. And I got a bit concerned. 55 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,520 So I even started like running with her to try and make her 56 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,240 like lose some weight because I thought this is getting 57 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:53,800 ridiculous. You know, like you're, you look, 58 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,600 she looked huge. And then a few weeks after that 59 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,960 in bed, I remember she used to sleep in bed with us because at 60 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,400 the time she just used to walk into the bedroom and do that. 61 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,280 But when she wakes up, she normally rolls on her belly and 62 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,080 asks for belly rubs like most dogs do. 63 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,800 And I instantly remember having a heart attack moment because I 64 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,880 could see little something poking from her belly, like 65 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,520 pushing out, and it almost looked like a paw print. 66 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,400 And I was like, Oh my God, they're lying to me. 67 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:25,760 Believe it. And like, The thing is, because 68 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,040 I'd witnessed so many readings with my dad and everything I 69 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,520 know, what would it look like at the final stages? 70 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:35,360 So I panicked again, called vet and they said, oh, you know, the 71 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,280 next appointment is next week. And I was so angry with them. 72 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,160 I was like, you have no idea what's going on right now. 73 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,520 I'm coming now. And they remember they took me 74 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,640 in the room and before the the scan even happened, she just 75 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,040 started dripping milk from her, from her nipples. 76 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,600 And I was like, there's no point scanning because she would not 77 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,000 have milk there if she wasn't pregnant. 78 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,440 So yeah, they refunded me for the scans. 79 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,800 And they basically said there's 3 or 4 maximum is what she told 80 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:02,680 me. And I said great. 81 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,280 So I took her home, prepared for the breeding to happen. 82 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,480 Lord and behold, seven of them come out, not 3 or 4. 83 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,800 So I don't know what kind of machine technology they use, 84 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,680 whatever. But seven came out all healthy, 85 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,120 all fine. And I was so happy because it 86 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,959 was such a big litter to survive for that amount is a big deal, 87 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:22,960 too. So that happened. 88 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,640 And then, yeah, time, time passed and they grew and they 89 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,680 developed and everything. And, you know, we, we looked 90 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,800 after them quite a lot. And the biggest challenge was 91 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,200 one of them had kennel cough as a puppy. 92 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,480 And we really didn't think that he was going to make it, to be 93 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:39,280 honest with you, because he just couldn't breathe much. 94 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:42,600 And so he would sleep on my chest sometimes and my wife's 95 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,600 chest the other times. And we would just try to force 96 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,280 him to breathe a lot. Then we would squeeze air into 97 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:49,880 his nose and stuff like that just to make him breathe a bit 98 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,760 more. But yeah, that was my first time 99 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:57,240 as a solo breeder with my dad. There's been maybe 20-30 plus. 100 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,560 And we used to help out other villagers with their pregnant 101 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,520 dogs and stuff like that. And I've always been in in that 102 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,520 environment, like I've never not been in that setting. 103 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,880 But doing it solo with just me and my wife at the time was a 104 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,120 completely different experience. And in my mind, it was so funny 105 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,720 because half the things that we were doing during the birth was 106 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,520 muscle memory. And it's not even comprehending, 107 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,200 like comprehending in my head what I'm doing. 108 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,040 And I'm just going into that mode, you know, pulling them 109 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:22,440 out, give them to the nipple, whatever. 110 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,680 And yeah, so that was the first time experienced, but yeah, it 111 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,200 was super, super stressful just because we just weren't prepared 112 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:29,800 for it. And anyway, you know, so many 113 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,840 things were needed for the birth. 114 00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:34,000 Like we didn't even have a pen for the puppies or anything like 115 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:35,720 that. I remember they were born and a 116 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,360 few days after Amazon delivered the pen and the other medical 117 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,160 supplies that we needed in the puppy formula. 118 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,400 Whatever, we had nothing. It was just in the moment, you 119 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:45,000 know? Yeah. 120 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,480 Where was that and what was the breed? 121 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,080 Akita and Akita And you? Were you still in the UK or? 122 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,560 Yeah, I was in Brighton. I'm like, the even crazier thing 123 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,600 was, was that at the time my rental agreement was no more 124 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,160 than four dogs. And I went from having four to 125 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,760 having 11, you know, and the, the even scary thing was, was 126 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,080 that I was actually doing the law degree at the University of 127 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:08,680 Brighton. And so I was going for my final 128 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,040 year of uni with the litter. And so the amount of times I 129 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,760 went to uni with the litter in a, in a buggy, I would push a 130 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,160 buggy full of puppies into the university and just sit in a 131 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,600 lecture taking notes while they slept and stuff like that. 132 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,480 And then during lecture breaks, people would come and take them 133 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,440 out and walk them around the university and stuff like that. 134 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,840 It was great because the amount of exposure they got from people 135 00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:30,760 sounds different smells, all that stuff. 136 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,280 It was great. You know, it was like every 137 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:37,440 single puppy owner from that litter always comments about how 138 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,520 they just don't care about anything in public. 139 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,400 Like, they don't have any anxiety in any way because 140 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,360 they've been through everything. You know, the university at the 141 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,280 time was installing a new bridge to connect the two blocks that 142 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:52,320 we had in between the blocks. And the amount of construction 143 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,960 drilling sounds of those puppies slept through was insane. 144 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,560 And so now they just don't have any anxiety towards sound in any 145 00:06:58,560 --> 00:06:59,880 way. They don't care about anything 146 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:02,440 because they've seen it, done it, whatever, and they just 147 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,200 don't care anymore. So you became an Akita breeder 148 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,200 by accident? Akita and also which are the dog 149 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,160 breeds of dogs do you breed? So we breed Shebas too. 150 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,880 We haven't had like our own Sheba breeding yet. 151 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,760 That will be in January. The first one that we do, we had 152 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,160 a lot of issues with like getting health testing, 153 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,760 recognising things like that, because in the UK they said to 154 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,720 us all you don't need to do any health testing. 155 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,360 And then we spoke to one health centre, they said they wouldn't 156 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,640 book us in for it for some reason and then we ended up 157 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,320 moving country. So it was never done from that 158 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,200 perspective. Luckily for Akita, they said the 159 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,560 Kennel Club replied to us and said no health testing is 160 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,080 necessary for this breed. OK, so this was your first 161 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,120 accidental breed with the Akitas, Yeah. 162 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:46,600 Yeah, yeah. Right. 163 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,480 The prior to that you had experience of breeding with your 164 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,720 dad in. Where was it in? 165 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,760 Norfolk. In Norfolk, that's it, yes. 166 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,640 So. So your dad taught you how to do 167 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,880 whelping? Yeah, pretty much, yeah. 168 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,720 He was like the the chief in that sense. 169 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,760 He told me everything I know pretty much about it. 170 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:06,360 But yeah, we never bred in Norfolk. 171 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:07,880 It was always in Kazakhstan and in Turkey. 172 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,440 So every time we would go for holiday and stuff like that, a 173 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,760 lot of villages which have pregnant dogs constantly because 174 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:16,520 they're always off lead walking around everywhere. 175 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,240 So it would be like if we're a mix of one breed and another, it 176 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,240 would be like a deliberate kangle breeding for a farmer who 177 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,800 had a male and a female and wanted to have more a garden 178 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:28,760 dogs walking around the area and stuff like that. 179 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,280 Super, super common like in Turkey and Kazakhstan for people 180 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,640 to have kangle or at least like livestock guarding breeds to 181 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,000 breed more of them and then to try to have more surrounding 182 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,840 their area kind of thing. Like wolves killing livestock is 183 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,240 such a, a big issue in North Turkey and in Kazakhstan. 184 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,200 So it's really, really common. But yeah, I learned a lot during 185 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,600 that time in terms of like warping and how to raise them 186 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,280 and how to fix issues between packs and stuff like that. 187 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:58,720 It was really, really important for me in my, in my development 188 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,160 as like a behaviourist, I would say even it was more crucial to 189 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:05,480 me than going to uni because you see real life problems and you 190 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:06,760 deal with them properly. So. 191 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,080 My experience of the Kangal dogs, I've been to Istanbul and 192 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,080 they're, they're like, they're just giant, giant dogs. 193 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,360 They're near the mosques and they kind of patrol. 194 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:19,320 It's really funny actually, that I, I called them police dogs, 195 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,360 even though they're not necessarily police dogs. 196 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,080 But whenever the police car would drive like the tourist 197 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,360 police or whatever, these dogs would just start following the 198 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,240 car and I'd be like, yeah, they, they could, they could be police 199 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,080 officers. Character wise, they're not very 200 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,400 fitted, so that kind of role. Yeah, exactly. 201 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,600 That's that's the impression that I got when I was there. 202 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:43,200 But what I loved about going to travel in Turkey was I saw how 203 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:47,080 well they are looked after in comparison to other countries. 204 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,240 For example, even though they've got their ear tags and stuff, 205 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,880 they're still being fed. I saw one gentleman take his 206 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,160 leather jacket off and put it on the ground for one of the dogs 207 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,600 to to sleep on. I thought that was really lovely 208 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,760 and it was very telling about the culture. 209 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,160 Yeah. Cats especially, like cats get 210 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,120 treated immensely great in Turkey. 211 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,200 Oh my God, yeah. Any find any St cat in Turkey, 212 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,360 there is maybe less than a metre away. 213 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,760 There is a big bowl of food and a big bowl of water somewhere. 214 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,880 100 percent, 100%, even in cafes and restaurants like, yeah, they 215 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,160 come and steal food, but it's because people let them and 216 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,360 that's, that's what they're going to use to, you know. 217 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,520 So as a tourist, you might think like, oh, this pesky cat has 218 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,160 stolen my meatball or whatever, but actually they've got, 219 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,560 they've gotten so used to locals just giving them whatever that 220 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:36,120 they just take it now. They don't even care. 221 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,080 That's so cool. Going back to the breeding, how 222 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,560 did you decide to become a full time breeder? 223 00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:44,120 Is that what you are doing at the moment? 224 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:45,840 Full time breeding and and. Yeah, yeah. 225 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,800 I mean, I would categorise myself as that, yeah, for sure. 226 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,040 I definitely do a lot more training than I do breeding, but 227 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:53,480 because again, you want to be careful about these things 228 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,360 because for a female, you realistically only have like 3 229 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,960 or 4 opportunities to have a good breeding. 230 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,560 So you need to be very strategic about which male you pair up 231 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:04,960 with the temperament of that male, you know, what it will 232 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,040 cultivate for the future. And again, when it comes to my 233 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,000 experience as a breeder, I would definitely say that I'm not 234 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,080 really in it for the sake of money or anything like that or 235 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:18,480 for the sake of like, oh, this is something that's like in 236 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,440 terms of like economical standpoint, like profitable for 237 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,600 me in any way. I always say to people, if your 238 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,960 idea is to profit from breeding, good luck because it's not 239 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,240 likely that you're going to get there and still be like an 240 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,160 ethically good person because the amount of people that breed 241 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,520 their dogs constantly. And I'm, again, this is a big 242 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:40,480 problem everywhere, not just in the UK, but you look at the 243 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,320 pedigree of some dog and like there's one male that a breeder 244 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,040 has, for example, that's been used 18 times and it's like, 245 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,160 that's insane. You're destroying the gene pool 246 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,360 by doing that because every dog that you've produced since is 247 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,080 now related to one another. Like in the future, if there was 248 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,400 like a shortage of a breed, for example, I couldn't use one dog 249 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,760 with another dog because they're half siblings or they're half 250 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,000 cousins or something like that. Or in the family tree, they're 251 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,080 too closely linked to being inbred in some way, you know? 252 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,360 And so again, like anyone's welcome to have a look on my 253 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,840 Kennel Club profile, but all of my dogs that are registered on 254 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:17,680 my Kennel Club profile either have 0.0% inbreeding coefficient 255 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:20,800 or no .1% inbreeding coefficient. 256 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,040 The lowest one that I have actually is my SHEBA. 257 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,400 She has 0.001% inbreeding coefficiency. 258 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:33,120 So there is no chance at all that anyone near the family tree 259 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,680 of hers has been used to create her, which is great. 260 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,520 And new blood is a really, really important thing for the 261 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,080 breed. But going back to the question, 262 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,880 yeah, like training and breeding. 263 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,720 Yeah, for sure. It's at the core of my being. 264 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,600 But I'm a trainer before breeder 100% because I'm doing this from 265 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:55,440 a preservation standpoint, not to pay for things in my life 266 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,120 right in any way. OK, so so let's go back to the 267 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,960 breeds themselves. So typically, historically, the 268 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:08,560 Shiba, the Akita, and the Shikoku are breeds that 269 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:12,320 originated from Japan. What were they used for back in 270 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,480 the day? What would they initially bred 271 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,520 for their purpose? Akitas were predominantly used 272 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,120 for chasing out bears, hunting bears in rural Japan. 273 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,520 Later on, they had a bit more of a guardian role and they would 274 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,680 protect the Japanese royalty. So they became that much later 275 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:32,560 on. You know, shibas were classic 276 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,640 samurai companions. And when samurais would travel 277 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,120 for different areas of rural Japan, for example, they would 278 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,480 bait out game. And so they would kind of almost 279 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,320 distract bigger animals until a hunter would come by and take 280 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,520 them out or they would hunt small prey, for example, which 281 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,760 is why, again, you see so many different Shebas today that have 282 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,200 a bit more of a primitive instinct than other other ones 283 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,680 that are a bit more diluted by bloodlines, so to speak. 284 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:00,400 They have less of that, you know, and they're not too 285 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,360 bothered about pigeons and foxes and other stuff that we see in 286 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,240 like an urban environment, so to speak. 287 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,640 Yeah, she was were used for that predominantly. 288 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,280 And you still see a lot of that characteristic having an active 289 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,160 role today. Shikoku is one of the only ones 290 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,680 I would say that still hasn't quite come to that stage of 291 00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,200 being diluted enough to be a common house pet. 292 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,680 I don't consider my Shikoku her name's Rudico, by the way. 293 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,440 I don't consider Rudico as a dog, personally. 294 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,400 I I don't see her as a dog at all. 295 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,400 She is a beast of a different nature in in her own being. 296 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,160 I would say I don't trust her near my cat in any way shape or 297 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:43,120 form. She's too primitive and very how 298 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,040 to put it. She has an insane prey Dr And so 299 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,120 even if like, for example, there could be like a little mice 300 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,800 running around here, which is very common where I live, goes 301 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,960 mental. And again, it's a great sniffing 302 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:56,920 game for her because if I let her out in the garden, she 303 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,840 spends 20 minutes trying to find the mice that was here two hours 304 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:01,920 ago. And so 20 minutes of that, her 305 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,280 mind is gone after that, you know, but she reacts to possibly 306 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,360 everything out there. I don't think that the breed has 307 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,600 come to a stage where you could live in a place like the UK, for 308 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,200 example, and be fine with that kind of dog, you know, like 309 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,160 owning it specifically. But they were used for bore 310 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,480 baiting, you know, so boars would exist somewhere and the 311 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,480 Shikoku's would just start trying to, you know, flush it 312 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,280 out into a corner or something like that. 313 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:30,640 So a hunter would come and kill it. 314 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,720 And even to this day, they're still being used for that 315 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,400 purpose. And I really do believe that 316 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,960 we're a long way away from the Shikoku becoming a bit more of a 317 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,200 civilised common dog breed that. We. 318 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,760 Have today yeah. Even when you look at her 319 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,960 there's something in her eyes and like you don't think I. 320 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,400 It's really tough to put it, but when you look at her, you can 321 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,320 tell that it's not like a dog dog. 322 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,680 You can tell it's like a different thing entirely. 323 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,960 You know, And even if you research them, a lot of people 324 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,840 argue that it's actually like a wolf hybrid. 325 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,280 And there's a lot of the old Japanese wolves that have 326 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,080 existed back then still carrying. 327 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,200 Well, they still carry the bloodline of this of this type 328 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,880 of wolf specifically. And you can 100% see that, you 329 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,520 know, she only wags her tail if she's tracking an animal or 330 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,480 seeing something that she wants to go for. 331 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,680 She doesn't wag her tail the way a normal dog does when they're 332 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,280 happy to see whatever. When she's wagging her tail. 333 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,080 I'm actually worried because I'm thinking, what if he's seen? 334 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:27,400 What are you going to try and go for? 335 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,600 I need to figure out what it is before you do that. 336 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,560 And out of all the dogs, he's the only one that doesn't have 337 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,520 awfully privileges. Because I just don't know what 338 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:39,040 what she will do if she ends up going into that environment. 339 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,080 How old is she now? 2/2 and 1/2. 340 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:45,440 These two and how did you get her? 341 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,240 How did you get your hands on a Shikoku? 342 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,760 She came from the same breeder that I bought my Akitas from and 343 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,320 she lives in Poland. She has been accredited by the 344 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,000 Japanese Federation of Dogs and every other accreditation you 345 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,920 could possibly find about NI Hong Ken breeds. 346 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,080 Neon Ken is the Japanese breeds that exist and all the primitive 347 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,640 breeds that are in originating from Japan. 348 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,839 So all the yeah, all the NI Hong Ken, she's accredited for all 349 00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:11,040 that sort of stuff. But she knew we were, we were 350 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,480 moving to Lithuania and we had plans to get out of the UK to to 351 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,359 move to the EU. And she basically messaged to 352 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,880 say that she wants to Co own a Shikoku with somebody. 353 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,040 And the initial plan was that Co owning is a funny one because 354 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,960 you need to trust the other person really well to allow that 355 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,680 to happen because that person could potentially just take a 356 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,800 free dog from you and then after that breed or do whatever they 357 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:38,760 want with it because it's in their ownership now. 358 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:41,840 Especially when across these countries. 359 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,480 Because even though I signed a contract with my breeder saying 360 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,400 that I will agree to the terms that she said, a contract made 361 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,640 in Poland doesn't have any precedent in the UK. 362 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,040 So I could have realistically done whatever I wanted to. 363 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,800 And again, there has been other people breeding Japanese breeds 364 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,240 with the same sort of grey area, whatever you want to call it 365 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,480 legal loophole if you will, who shouldn't have bred those dogs, 366 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,520 but they have done. But yeah, we kept that dog like 367 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:08,960 that. Basically she asked if I could 368 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,240 Co own and if I would be willing to share responsibility and and 369 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:14,600 possibly breed her in the future. 370 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:19,560 Because she Coke was a really well known for having epilepsy 371 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:25,320 and weak stomachs, really bad digestion and and a whole list 372 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,080 of other like genetic problems. But Ridico was one of the few 373 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,320 that was actually quite healthy and so quite desirable in that 374 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:33,680 sense. And the breeder didn't want to 375 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,560 sell her so that someone else would have the right to do 376 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,840 whatever later on. And she just wanted to find 377 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,040 someone trustworthy that she could eventually say, look, 378 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,800 these are my plans and you won't fight it. 379 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,080 You won't disagree with whatever. 380 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,920 You'll do it for the sake of preservation and good breeding. 381 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,760 So I agree to it from that. And it was even after Brexit, so 382 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,080 we can even have it delivered to England the way that we did with 383 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,240 the Akitas. We ended up driving to France 384 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,000 and picking her up from there, and then we took her home to the 385 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,120 UK after that. So yeah, that was how I got my 386 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:06,560 hands on her. Are there any other Shikoku's in 387 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,120 the UK that you know of? There is there, yeah. 388 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:11,640 They're increasing quite a lot. So at the time when we had 389 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,680 ridico, there was only about like 11 or 10 or 11 maybe in the 390 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,880 UK, and now like it's around, I would say 16 to 20. 391 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,440 There was a litter of Shikoku's recently that Animal Watch 392 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,040 covered not long ago. And so, yeah, it is an 393 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,480 increasing thing. But at the same time, because 394 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,160 it's not a breed recognised by the Kennel Club, people are able 395 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,120 to acquire these breeds and breed them without any 396 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,560 restriction or any testing or anything like that. 397 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,920 And so it's, it's kind of sad to see. 398 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,960 But at the same time it's good if people have the right 399 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,720 attitude and they're willing to take on the commitment of a dog 400 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,680 that's of this calibre. Because I used to think that, 401 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,680 you know, as long as I give vertical the right stimulation 402 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,280 that a Chicago needs and do do things like man trailing and 403 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,760 like barn hunts and scent scent trail related games, whatever. 404 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:02,640 I really did believe that the dog could thrive and be normal 405 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,520 and, and be OK living in a place like Brighton, for example, 406 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:11,520 compared to here where she has woodland and she can pretty much 407 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,760 I can let go of the long line and she can just do whatever she 408 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,160 wants kind of thing. And then she's knackered. 409 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,120 Come, comes home. Rest whatever, or she can chase 410 00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:19,480 some mice or whatever and do whatever. 411 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,520 I'm not saying people can't do this in the in the UK in any 412 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,200 way, but or I'm not saying that people can't take their 413 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,040 Chicago's to a woodland area. But the fact that she's not 414 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,920 constantly bombarded by cars and children. 415 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,880 And like all these other sounds that exist in an urban 416 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,640 environment, I can tell that she's a lot more calm generally 417 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,000 and she's not reacting badly to anything that's going on. 418 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,320 Like even if we have like delivery runs and stuff like 419 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,520 that coming through here, she doesn't get in any way anxious 420 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,920 by them. And whereas before I remember I 421 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,640 would deliberately avoid the school run because if children 422 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,960 came running out the gate, she would just get too overly 423 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:58,000 stimulated, poo on the ground out of fear and just lose it all 424 00:20:58,160 --> 00:20:59,800 trail of thought. And it was really tough to 425 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,720 redirect her to focus on me to just get home. 426 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,800 Even if it was like a 2 minute walk, that would be enough for 427 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,520 her to get triggered in that sense. 428 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:12,120 And we don't have enough people teaching their children that you 429 00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:14,680 can't just come to a dog and, and stroke it or squeeze its 430 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,920 cheeks or grab its tail or something like that. 431 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,160 In like the year and a half that I've had in Lithuania, even 432 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,240 though we've been going to town and things like that and getting 433 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,720 out of the remote area, I've never had anyone or anyone's 434 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,120 children come and touch the dogs without consent. 435 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,320 Mothers always hold their children's hands. 436 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,080 And I've even seen mothers, like, grab their children from 437 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,240 their shirts and like, yank them back kind of thing, almost 438 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,920 forcefully to say, no, that's not your dog. 439 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,240 You can't go to that dog. You need to wait and ask. 440 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,360 And only then, and children are really respectful about it. 441 00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:44,200 And turns out it's taught in schools. 442 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,280 So it's great that children learn these things. 443 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,520 But yeah, I can tell that the previous environment wasn't 444 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,200 really the best for her, and now she's thriving a lot better 445 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,520 here. That's so good. 446 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,040 I am recently learned a little bit about something called 447 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,960 genetic drift. Could you explain what that is? 448 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,720 Yeah, sure. Genetic drifting as I understand 449 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:11,560 it has always been about over breeding dogs and sort of 450 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,800 certain characteristics being passed off into a different 451 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,680 direction. Some logs that are known to be a 452 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,560 specific character trait, not no longer having that character 453 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,560 trait. A good example is Kai Kens, for 454 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,680 example, Japanese breeds, they're known for being super 455 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,600 confident, but yet there was an owner of this breed in the UK 456 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,960 who everyone that I spoke to about this owner said that all 457 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,240 his dog is really anxious because all he does is put it 458 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,480 into public situations. And that's a bit traumatised 459 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,800 from that sort of thing. And it's like, OK, if a dog that 460 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,720 you have brought on there, maybe it's a puppy, whatever. 461 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,640 Why would you put it in a in a situation where it's public and 462 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,880 it's open and everyone can just come and touch your dog and you 463 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,080 don't really read your dog well enough and advocate for your 464 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:54,480 dog. And now it's super anxious. 465 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,480 You know, I saw this dog at a dog show too, and the anxiety 466 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,640 that it had was so high level to the point where even the judge 467 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,160 of the dog show was saying it's not suitable to be judged 468 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,320 because it's completely against the character trait that it's 469 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,800 in. So we see this quite a lot 470 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,240 happening to different breeds too. 471 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,840 And again, you could even argue that my Akita is being sociable 472 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,360 as a genetic drift because they're known to be aloof. 473 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,880 So you could argue that that's the case. 474 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,160 And again, this is a big topic when it comes to the genes of 475 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,800 the dog because I don't know if you know this, but in Japan, 476 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,880 when they do dog shows for Akita, specifically for the 477 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,280 males, instead of having them stacked and in that pose that 478 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,360 they're normally in, they actually get 2 males to face 479 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:39,920 each other. And they want to see some anger. 480 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,960 They want to see the expression of the dog when it gets angry. 481 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:44,880 They encouraged us quite a lot too. 482 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,720 And The thing is that if your dog doesn't react in an 483 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,960 aggressive way, it's considered a gene fault. 484 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,200 And it's considered that your dog doesn't have the right 485 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,880 temperament to be an Akita wherever you. 486 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,240 So a lot of dogs get disqualified based off of this, 487 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,320 you know, and a lot of Japanese breeders do say, oh, you know, 488 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:03,960 we don't like these friendly Akitas. 489 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,240 You know, when I'm judging a dog, when I'm touching, I'd want 490 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,160 to feel the dog vibrate. And I want to see that it's 491 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,000 uncomfortable, that it wants to go for me. 492 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,520 And that's what I'm looking for because that's how it should be, 493 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,760 apparently. But a lot of Japanese breeders, 494 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,280 they complain about European breeders because they have 495 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,000 friendlier dogs or because they have dogs that won't react to a 496 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,440 male in that way. Maya Akita is a bit like that 497 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,800 too. When he meets a male, he's 498 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,960 actually quite friendly and unless the male growls and he 499 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,400 doesn't have any reason to be different than anyway, he's not 500 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:36,960 very dominant in character either. 501 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,360 So it's again, it's considered a bit of a drift from the original 502 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:45,040 genes of the dog, so to speak, and a lot of talk about certain 503 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,880 qualities being bred out of the dog, which I do partially agree 504 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,880 with because at the end of the day, we're not hunter gatherers 505 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,560 anymore. We're not in situations where I 506 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,040 need to go to the woods and find a deer to eat or something like 507 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,960 that, so I don't have any reason to put my dogs in scenarios like 508 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,240 that. Nor do I need to encourage 509 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,760 particular dominant or aggressive traits in my dogs. 510 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,760 And I don't like the idea of it at all in any way. 511 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,240 I always try to discourage it and stamp it out in every single 512 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,720 character that meets. Like the other day, my male 513 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,480 Sheba that I got tried to hump my male Akita from behind. 514 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,120 A very brave move considering he's only 5 kilos and my Akita's 515 00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:28,760 31 kilos. Again Itchy growled at him and 516 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,880 he got pretty dominant about it but he gave up after a few 517 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,840 seconds and he hasn't tried it again you know? 518 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,040 So again it shows good character in his behalf. 519 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,600 But a lot of people would argue and say that the fact that he 520 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,680 didn't try and hurt the puppy is actually a bit of a gene 521 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,040 problem. And maybe he's not mind wise 522 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,400 correct to how he should be, but I just see a great level of 523 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,080 self-control and good moral so I. 524 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,560 Continue. So that genetic drift is that so 525 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,040 genetically that includes health and behaviour. 526 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,760 Yeah, I mean like when it comes to health, the biggest problem 527 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,840 in Akitas is the fact that males look like females and females 528 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,080 look like males. There's a different scientific 529 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,880 term for this that I've completely forgotten now. 530 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,120 But when a dog comes to confirmation, or to be exhibited 531 00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:18,560 at least, it should be obvious from the face apparently that 532 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,800 it's a male or if it's a female. And again, a lot of females are 533 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,080 starting to have like boxier snouts and loose hanging lips, 534 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,720 almost like a mastiff kind of thing. 535 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:32,120 And my female Akita has slight looser lips, I would say, like 536 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:34,480 around the muscle area compared to my male. 537 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,480 And so you could potentially argue that my male looks a bit 538 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,080 more feminine than my female. But a lot of the times we're 539 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,760 seeing the breed getting bigger in weight and legs becoming 540 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,680 taller and all these things happening more in the UK that I 541 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,320 would say compared to the EU, because in the EUI would say 542 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,640 that dogs are a bit smaller. At least Akitas are a bit 543 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,680 smaller compared to how they are in the UK. 544 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,960 Because when I used to take my male Akita for dog shows in the 545 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,200 Uka lot of people would say, oh, you know, maybe it's a gene 546 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,280 problem because he looks quite small for a male. 547 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,800 And it's probably due to genetics that he's a bit 548 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,640 smaller. And I would often see what they 549 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,480 meant because my Akita's head would be here and everyone 550 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,720 else's would be like here. And so like an obvious 551 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,760 comparison that, well, my dog maybe should be bigger. 552 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,640 But taking him here to the EU, he's actually similar height, if 553 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,440 not taller than some other dogs that are in the ring next to 554 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,600 him. So you see it happening quite 555 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,920 often. But I would say that in the UK 556 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,840 at the minute we're seeing the Akita, the Japanese Akita turn 557 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,480 very similar to size and looks wise very con comparable to the 558 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,320 American Akita. And it shouldn't be the case at 559 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,320 all really. I mean you shouldn't see that 560 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,240 happening as much. But with some dogs and some 561 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,560 examples you are seeing that that's the case 100%. 562 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,560 You know, again, it differs from kennel to kennel, but the size 563 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,080 difference isn't as big as what it used to be, in my opinion at 564 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,360 least anyways. And so when it comes to health 565 00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:03,800 of these dogs, I would say, yeah, they're getting bigger and 566 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,320 bigger, which is an issue for people further down the line 567 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,360 because at some point someone's going to want this dog and maybe 568 00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:10,720 think that it's too big for them. 569 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,080 And actually character wise, they're gentle giants and 570 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,440 they're a bit more lazier compared to Huskies, I would 571 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:17,880 say. And like, the exercise that you 572 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,120 need to do for Nikita, I wouldn't say is like immensely 573 00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:23,920 great if you look at all the breeds in general requirements 574 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,760 wise. And it may deter people from 575 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,920 getting it. But also at the same time, if 576 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,400 the dog's being bred to be bigger in any way, when it gets 577 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,080 aggressive or tries to bite someone, is it going to deliver 578 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,440 more harm and more, I don't know, impact on bite? 579 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,640 Probably, yeah. So when it comes to handling the 580 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,960 Spree too, and like an aggressive standpoint, you don't 581 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,600 want to be that person who has a dog that now used to be smaller 582 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,240 and is now much bigger and dealing with aggression later 583 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:51,520 on, you know? Wow. 584 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,000 OK. So, so going back to what you 585 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,920 were talking about confirmation very briefly, can you explain 586 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,280 what confirmation is? Yeah, sure. 587 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:04,400 So just as like a advice thing for people that are thinking 588 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,640 about buying dogs in general, if your breeder is not in 589 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,480 confirmation, it's a red flag because it's definitely 590 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,240 something that you should be doing if you want to be 591 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,720 considered a good breeder. So confirmation is when people 592 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,160 take their dogs to a dog show to be judged, preferably under a 593 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,160 specialty judge. But you get these things called 594 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,880 all breed judges now, who are, as the name suggests, they're 595 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,000 qualified to judge all breeds. But if you go to a specialist 596 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,760 judge who has taken exams specifically for your breed, at 597 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,280 that point, you get better feedback from them and, and, and 598 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,520 the judging becomes a bit more, how to put it descriptive and a 599 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,600 bit more well-rounded, in my opinion at least. 600 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,960 Anyway. So confirmation is when you take 601 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,320 your dog to a ring and you make it stand in its natural standing 602 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,480 position, you can adjust it to make the dog look more 603 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,760 flattering to the judge, for example. 604 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,640 But ultimately what they're looking for is you take a few 605 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,600 steps and however your dog's legs and front legs and back 606 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,280 legs naturally fall into place. That's what it looks like. 607 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,040 There's several videos and photos of it online. 608 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:09,480 But confirmation is essentially proof that your breeding is up 609 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,840 to standard, you know, So in the UK you get given first, second, 610 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,680 third and reserved, which is 4th place and you go up in the ranks 611 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,720 depending on that. In the in Europe, you get given 612 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,200 a card that says good, very good, excellent, and then I 613 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,640 think perfect too. I can't remember if it's just 614 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,520 excellent and that's it, or if it's perfect after that. 615 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,840 But you get given a scorecard based off of the head, the front 616 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,680 legs, the chest and the back legs. 617 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,840 You get scored on all these things collectively, so you get 618 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,520 to know what it means. But in order to qualify to 619 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,440 breed, your dogs must get 3 excellence in different shows 620 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,400 from different judges. So in Europe it's quite common 621 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,040 to have dog shows go on for three days, and so you get 3 622 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,080 different judges throughout the course of those three days. 623 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,400 Not so common in the UK sadly, but it's an easy way to gain 624 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,560 enough qualifications for your dog to hopefully breed in the 625 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,680 future. So in in your in Europe, most 626 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,840 other countries but Lithuania specifically, you have the 627 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,920 Lithuanian Kennel Club. And in order to have a kennel 628 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,960 for example, you need to go for an exam that teaches you the 629 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,720 realities of breeding, how to breed effectively, how to raise 630 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,360 puppies. You get given a course basically 631 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,840 on how to become a breeder and as you pass the exam, you can't 632 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,200 breed, at least not legally. There's other people who 633 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,400 obviously do it through back channels and everything, but no 634 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,360 one's ever going to buy from them because the Lithuanian 635 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,720 government heavily presses on the fact that you need to buy 636 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,440 from ethical breeders who have passed the exam, who have that 637 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,000 certification. And so that business is pretty 638 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,080 much dying. And Lithuania as it is like 639 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,560 inbreeding and backyard breeding and all that stuff, very little 640 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,280 people are puppy farming out here. 641 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,120 It's all people that have the accreditation mostly like 95% of 642 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,160 people I would say easily. But yeah, once that's done, you 643 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,640 don't need to show that you have three excellent scores from 644 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,560 different judges on on a card, which again, it's tracked. 645 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,880 Because when you get these points given to you, you hand it 646 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,080 in to like a reader and that reader will put it on your 647 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,080 account saying that you've received 3 excellence from these 648 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,920 different judges. And what judges normally do, 649 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,120 they write a critique after you've shown your dog. 650 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,160 So they will say, you know, a dog had a really nice head, very 651 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,760 flattering expression, looked really good on the move. 652 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,400 I did not see anything that displeased me, something along 653 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,840 those lines. You can't get bad critiques too. 654 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,520 Obviously, if your dog's not good, it's that they won't 655 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,720 always write positive things. It's only if your dog is 656 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,520 actually good. And so the Lithuanian Kennel 657 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,680 Club, BLKD, they will look at your points and they'll look at 658 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,920 your critiques and they'll see your account and after that they 659 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,640 will give you permission. And the same goes for female 660 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,320 breeding too. You need to ask permission, you 661 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,120 need to pre notify them that you're planning on breeding, and 662 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,560 only when they give you permission can you go ahead and 663 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:59,000 do it. OK, Why from your perspective, 664 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:04,200 why do you, why do people breed dogs beyond money and other 665 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,040 incentives? I think it's, it's more of the 666 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,560 case where if if people don't, then eventually these breeds 667 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,520 will go completely extinct and we won't have them. 668 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,760 But also I think that these breeds especially like for 669 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,160 primitive breeds, they need to be bred from good examples and 670 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,440 people that are have the best interest and we'll give them the 671 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,320 right start in life so they can be good companions for people. 672 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,680 You know that you'll find many people who wanted a breed for so 673 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,240 long, like specifically 1 certain breed, and they get it 674 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,400 from a breeder who didn't necessarily do the right work 675 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,640 with that dog. And maybe that person wasn't 676 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,520 equipped to be doing dog training or they didn't know 677 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,360 much, or maybe they just had money to buy a dog and not to 678 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,560 invest in training later on. You know, I think people mainly 679 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,600 do it from a standpoint that these dogs need to be bred in an 680 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,160 environment that is good, wholly good stick and develop a good 681 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,160 character. But also because people can have 682 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,680 ultimately the dream that they had or the idea that they had 683 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,360 and it's a good idea, it's a good dream. 684 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,040 It doesn't turn into a bad nightmare, whatever. 685 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,320 They're not spending countless amounts of money training dog, 686 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,719 whatever. And I think, yeah, with regards 687 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,440 to why people be, I think that's mainly it's really is that 688 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,560 preservation. So the breed ends up becoming 689 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,600 better and better with each generation, but also people have 690 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,080 lifelong family members that are ultimately a good addition, a 691 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,800 good decision for their lives. You know, for as long as the dog 692 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,199 lives, pretty much. I see. 693 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,679 OK, is breeding still lucrative today? 694 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,800 Depends on who you ask, because you meet people who breed like 695 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,360 doodle noodles, for example, like long haired Frenchies, or 696 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,280 they breed like, I don't know, these silver pit bulls or silver 697 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,040 dash outs, whatever it might be, all these designer breeds that 698 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,760 again, if I went on to list all of them, we'd be here till the 699 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,440 end of the episode. But those people, yeah, it's 700 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,520 lucrative for them because, you know, they'll get these dogs, 701 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,800 for example, and be like, OK, it's 10,000 for a dog, which is 702 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,160 not in some people's eyes, crazy amount of money. 703 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,000 But I don't know if you're a rich influencer or I don't know, 704 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,040 you're somebody else who money isn't an objector. 705 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,040 You will think that it's an amazing, you know, creation. 706 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:14,640 And for that reason, you end up buying it. 707 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,960 It's definitely lucrative, you know, because at the end of the 708 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,800 day, if it wasn't lucrative, shelters wouldn't be full 709 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,160 constantly. You know, that's the reality of 710 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,080 it. And this is again, why I'm, I'm 711 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,160 actually kind of against dog movies because anytime a dog 712 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,320 movie comes out where it's a specific breed, in that boom, 713 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,960 that breed is now being even bred more often or bought more 714 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,440 often. And, and it's a big, big 715 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,200 problem. You know, like how many people 716 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:39,880 have bought Akitas from watching Hatchico? 717 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,880 There was a movie recently about a Belgian Malinois. 718 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:45,480 Yeah, a Belgian. Malinois. 719 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:46,720 That one too. John Wick. 720 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,600 Yeah, that one, you know, again, if you see John Wick and you 721 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,040 think, great, I'm going to get that dog and you don't realise 722 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,080 the commitment that comes with having that kind of dog. 723 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,920 Again, we're going to have all these difficult breeds and 724 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,600 shelters and after that no one's going to take them because 725 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,760 again, it takes a different calibre of person to take a 726 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,560 rescue dog, full stop. In my opinion. 727 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,480 You know, you're you're inheriting all that dog's 728 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,160 problems and committing your life to a different pathway at 729 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,240 that point, which I greatly respect anyone on doing. 730 00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:15,600 But when it's a difficult breed as well as difficult problems, 731 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,840 not many people are interested in it, you know, and not many 732 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,200 people want to do that kind of thing. 733 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,240 And it's super tough to find that person to, to get into it, 734 00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:25,880 you know. So again, I, I do think that 735 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,160 it's too lucrative. And at the same time, people are 736 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,400 breeding them faster than they can be rehomed, you know, And so 737 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,400 it's one of those things, it definitely still is a lucrative 738 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,120 business, 100%. You know, you even have people 739 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,520 in Serbia and Romania breeding like security German shepherds 740 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,920 charging 23rd 20 to €30,000 for a puppy that's been security 741 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,680 trained. How true it is, I have no idea. 742 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,840 But again, these businesses do exist. 743 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,000 So, so, so knowing these things, knowing about the kennels and 744 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:02,280 the rescues and, and things like how, what help me understand 745 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,880 what the logic is or what the motivation or drive is for you 746 00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:09,120 to be a breeder. It's always been about 747 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,840 preservation for me, that that was the first part, you know, 748 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,560 obviously seeing the positive impact that it has on people's 749 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,200 lives to have a dog, you know, and to be given that 750 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,640 responsibility when you find the right people. 751 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,000 Again, this is a really important thing because I still 752 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,800 stay in contact with all of my owners and I messaged them at 753 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,960 least once a month to see how things are. 754 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,480 Some of them I'm actually quite close friends with, so we 755 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,960 message each other daily. Other than that, I would say 756 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,680 initially it was all about preservation. 757 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,320 It was like, OK, these two dogs are genetically good for each 758 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,200 other and they've created something that will help further 759 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,560 the breed and make it better. Because that's all all that 760 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,840 you're trying to do really. Like, a good example is like my 761 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:54,160 Arakita breeder in dog shows. She always shows her older dogs, 762 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,000 like the dogs that are between five to seven years old, but 763 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,440 those dogs always get beaten by dogs that she's bred that are 764 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,720 only like 2-3 years old. And again, that's really great 765 00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:05,840 thing to happen because it shows that the next generation is 766 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,160 better than the old generation, which is ultimately what you're 767 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:14,400 trying to do anyways. But when you see that like a 768 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,720 good family member has been added to that person's life or 769 00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:18,760 even if they're living on their own and then that they now have 770 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,360 like an extra sense of comfort or sense of like accomplishment 771 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,080 from having that dog for me, that makes me feel ultimately 772 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,640 great as a person too, because that they're going through, you 773 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,800 know, and it's so nice to see that person happy and, you know, 774 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,680 excited to go on dog walks and excited to train the dog and 775 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,920 visit other places. And they normally didn't travel 776 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:40,800 quite a lot, but because they have the dog now, they want to 777 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,720 explore everything. And it's great to see what it 778 00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:46,200 can do for someone like me personally, I can't imagine 779 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,440 living without a dog in any way, shape or form. 780 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:49,520 It just doesn't make sense to me. 781 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,920 I've had to fly to England and different countries in Europe 782 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,040 for dog training and I've been away from the dogs for a month 783 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:57,760 or so, maybe even longer for some clients. 784 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,840 And it kills me, absolutely kills me to the point where I'm 785 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,120 offering free boarding just so I can have a dog near me. 786 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,080 Like that's how dog ridden I am when it comes to that sort of 787 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,920 thing. But when you see the effect that 788 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:14,520 it has on people and how they keep bettering their lives for 789 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,480 the sake of the fact that they now have a dog, whether it might 790 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,400 be because they take care of themselves better or they travel 791 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,600 more, whatever, at that point it makes you happy and it gives you 792 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,840 more of a reason to bless somebody again in that sense. 793 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,440 But ultimately, if you ask what motivates me fully about 794 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,800 breeding, I would say 100%. It's always about keeping good 795 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,680 genes to be further than to be better. 796 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,080 And also about preserving the dog as it should be, because I 797 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,480 don't want debris to alter drastically in a bad way. 798 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,240 I just wanted to change in a good way. 799 00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:48,400 And again, through small increments, you see generations 800 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,520 changing ever so slightly. 5%, I would say you see some changes 801 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,480 happening, but it's all good changes. 802 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,760 So so typically, why do people come to you for this, these 803 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,360 particular breeds? Like what are their 804 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,560 expectations? Do they? 805 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,720 Would they? Try and acquire those dogs as an 806 00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:10,840 impulse buy? Or are they fully aware and 807 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:15,000 fully prepared mentally for these breeds? 808 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,000 Like do how? How much do they know when they 809 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,760 come to you? So I mean, when it comes to how 810 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,040 much they know, I never really expect anybody to know anything 811 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:25,720 really. Like realistically, even if it's 812 00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:29,040 your first time buying a difficult breed, I don't really 813 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,560 put pressure on people to know anything about dog training. 814 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,120 It's not like I don't know, you were an expert driver before you 815 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:36,920 learned how to drive. So why would I expect you to 816 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,800 know anything about dogs or dog training when you get a dog? 817 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,400 For example, even for people that I meet sometimes and they 818 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,120 say, you know, I had AI grew up with a German Shepherd and my 819 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,400 dog, my dad would make me walk the dog every day. 820 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,360 And I grew up with dogs, but now I have a Sheba and I just feel 821 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:52,560 like maybe I don't know anything. 822 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,840 And this happens a lot, by the way, like people who come from a 823 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,280 background would have grown up, grown up with a dog, but they 824 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,040 enter a Spitz breed or a primitive breed. 825 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,280 And it's now completely different than I do see it from 826 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,640 that standpoint because even having a Husky growing up, 827 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,480 having an Akita was a different experience. 828 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,600 Having a Shiba was a different experience, having a Shiva, 829 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,760 completely different experience again. 830 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,920 And so I understand that when it comes to these people, but it's 831 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,760 a mixture when it comes to who comes to me and what they expect 832 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,040 because there's times where people come and they have the 833 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,320 most unrealistic expectation. And it's a very short 834 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,200 conversation because I just say it's not going to be possible. 835 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,520 Unnecessary pressure on the dog. I can teach you how to manage 836 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,240 said behaviour, but in terms of fixing it or getting rid of it, 837 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,160 not really going to happen. So a good example would be like, 838 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,800 I had a climb before they got a sheba and they said, oh, you 839 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,080 know, I just wanted to be like my auntie's poodle. 840 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,480 It's like, so why didn't you get a poodle? 841 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,800 I can't understand why, why you would want to go for a different 842 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,080 breed and expect it to behave like a completely different 843 00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,080 breed. You know, it was a bit worse 844 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,920 because they suffered with that behaviour for around, I think it 845 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,320 was four or five years. So that was five years old 846 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,680 intact male. And their problem was that it 847 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,240 was, it wasn't friendly with males. 848 00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:14,640 And it's ask any Sheba owner who has an intact male unneutered. 849 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,640 If they get on with males, the answer will most likely be no. 850 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,760 They're same sex aggressive and it takes a lot of training and a 851 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,440 lot of time for that dog to understand to be civil with 852 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:29,040 other boys as opposed to getting rid of that behaviour 853 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,120 completely. Like my male Akita, he's not 854 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,360 throwing tea parties with every single boy that he meets. 855 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,520 You know, he's not friendly with all of them, but he's civil. 856 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,400 He won't try to initiate a fight. 857 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,360 And even even if that Akita responds negatively towards him 858 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,360 or growls or anything like that, his first instinct is to back up 859 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,760 behind my knees and look at me. Because I've I've had him in 860 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,360 that, in that moment so many times where an aggressive dog 861 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,440 has come up to us off the leash and come running at him. 862 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,800 And I've had to pick him up and basically run away from the dog 863 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,240 or even hold the dog's collar and hold him on the other arm 864 00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:03,280 like this. And again, I've been bitten in 865 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,840 that altercation. But he's seen how many times 866 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,280 I've advocated for him to the point where now it doesn't make 867 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,080 sense for him to engage in that. So again, it's really important 868 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,000 to teach these things. But if you're talking about 869 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,560 things that the breed's known for and you want it to be 870 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,160 different, then there's no point in me even attempting that 871 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,720 because the likelihood of you having the, the time or the 872 00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:28,920 mental power to, to push through and try and reach that stage, a 873 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:30,680 lot of owners won't have that, you know. 874 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,880 And at the same time, I do also get people who are really 875 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,840 compliant, lovely people who they have this dog and they've 876 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:39,400 heard from a friend of a friend that I've trained. 877 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,080 They're adult. And so they have a puppy and 878 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,880 they come to me and say we want him to have a good foundation, 879 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,200 help us with that. And so I'll train the dog from 880 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,000 puppy up until a year and five months, a year and eight months 881 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,480 for some dogs that are a bit more stubborn in character. 882 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,840 So that will happen to you. But a lot of the times people 883 00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,200 understand that it's, it's a breed that takes time and you 884 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:03,520 need patience with this. But the problem is, is that I 885 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,120 hate it when people see me as like, oh, I'm the person that's 886 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:07,920 going to do most of the work and fix it for you. 887 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,760 And like a lot of people enter this mindset where a trainer 888 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,160 will do that for them as if I have some magic wand that I go 889 00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:17,920 and it's done whatever. But in terms of when people 890 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:19,440 approach me, it's a mixture, really. 891 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,560 It's a big, big mixture because you get people that have 892 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,520 ridiculously unexpected expectations. 893 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,080 It's never going to happen in a million years. 894 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,400 With some people, they have the time commitment to push through 895 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,480 that kind of behaviour and they do end up getting to a stage 896 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,560 where it's good. Specifically in those areas. 897 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,200 Like I said, same sex, aggression, prey drive, all 898 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,080 those sorts of things. They have the time and the 899 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:41,800 energy. To. 900 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,440 Go ahead and try and fix that problem, release, get it to a 901 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,040 more manageable state. You get people that have 902 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,680 understood what their dog is like, what the dog has character 903 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,480 wise, and they are willing to comply and have some leeway and 904 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,360 negotiate from what their own expectations are to what the dog 905 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,240 is able to do. And then you get people who have 906 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:03,160 puppies clean slate. There's nothing to to do other 907 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,440 than to just teach the dog as it is and the dog ends up growing 908 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,680 to a good balanced adult. But. 909 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,400 They choose these dogs because of what they look like, not 910 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,840 because they have a job to do. For for the most part, yes. 911 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,560 If you're talking about what motivation people have to buy 912 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,600 this breed, The amount of times I have asked people why Sheba or 913 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,760 why Akita, or why chow chow, whatever. 914 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,040 Or it's a cute bear, it's a cute teddy bear, whatever, that is 915 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,160 usually the answer. If that's not the answer, then 916 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,600 it's always all my friend had one or I saw this movie or I saw 917 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,080 them on the Internet and it works from that bit. 918 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:37,680 Again, it's it's all still visual aspect. 919 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,560 It doesn't change much. But very rarely do I meet 920 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,960 someone who has said like, oh, I got a Nikita because I'm a bit 921 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:45,680 antisocial. I don't really mind it if I 922 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,240 don't talk to anyone or if I don't meet another dog owner and 923 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,320 I kind of like that. Very rarely do you meet people 924 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,040 like that, you know. Yeah, don't give people ideas. 925 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:59,320 No, I'm not saying it, but not but like they are suitable for 926 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,040 that kind of thing. Like for example, if you have an 927 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,400 Akita and you're like a single person living on your own kind 928 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,320 of thing and you don't really like the idea of being too 929 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,280 social or whatever, that dog isn't going to suffer a whole 930 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,320 deal from just having you as a point of contact. 931 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,840 Whereas I don't know, maybe other dogs might feel the need 932 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,880 to have a playmate or whatever or someone else to be involved 933 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,720 in their life. That dog won't, most likely. 934 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,280 Right. So it's interesting though, 935 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,960 because I remember watching both, I don't know if there are 936 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,840 any more 2. Is it two or three versions of 937 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,280 Achico? The film and the impression that 938 00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,920 I got about that particular breed, what would that was the 939 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,280 that was Akita. Yeah, funny enough, they they 940 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:41,960 have a in the beginning of that film. 941 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,240 It's actually a Sheba puppy. It is a Shiba, OK. 942 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,960 Yeah, it's a Shiba that they didn't use an Akita because it 943 00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,400 would just grow up too quickly during during different takes. 944 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,800 So yeah, they use a Sheba in the beginning and later on it's an 945 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:55,600 Akita. Right. 946 00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,680 OK. But but the personality of this 947 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,800 particular breed came across as really gentle, a little bit 948 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:05,880 energetic, but a companion dog. That's the impression that that 949 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:07,840 I got it. It didn't leave the impression 950 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:14,960 that it was a working dog, which it was originally. 100%, yeah, 951 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:16,360 100%. Yeah. 952 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,080 So I mean that I know because of genetic drift and everything, 953 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,520 over time they've been domesticated a bit more. 954 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,680 But so you're saying those inherent traits that you just 955 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,000 cannot breed out of them, What are those particular traits that 956 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,480 people need to be aware of? So again, from my viewpoint, 957 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:40,760 first, first of all, same sex aggression is 100% one of them. 958 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,720 I would, you know, from my own personal experience, females are 959 00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:46,360 definitely worse with each other when it comes to fighting, at 960 00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:47,760 least when they get aggressive with each other. 961 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,120 Females to females, definitely from my experience, a lot worse, 962 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,360 I would say when it comes to how they are and everything. 963 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,680 But yeah, same sex aggression is definitely a big one. 964 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,840 Prey Dr is another, you know, like if they track an animal and 965 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:03,560 they lose the track of it, whatever, they'll just start 966 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,640 tracking something else. It's not really something that 967 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:10,520 they stop doing necessarily. You know, aloofness is another 968 00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:12,320 one. Again, with some genes, it's not 969 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,160 the case, like some breeding, it's not the case. 970 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,880 Others it is. You know, I've been in in dog 971 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,040 shows, for example, where other males are literally trying to go 972 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,200 for my dog in the ring and my dog is just looking around like, 973 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,160 OK, I don't know what to do, help me kind of thing. 974 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,720 And so for that reason, I always try and go last so that there's 975 00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:33,160 no one behind him so that he doesn't feel uncomfortable and 976 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,160 he just has to focus on looking forward and that's it. 977 00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,760 Those are like the main two. I would say the other three, 978 00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,160 again, like when it comes to like other dog breeds too, 979 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,400 stubbornness is another one. Like, you know, are you patient 980 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,440 enough to handle that kind of breed? 981 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:52,160 Because when I say about like these breeds specifically, every 982 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,360 time you want to teach them to do something, it's almost like 983 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,240 they're thinking about what's in it for me. 984 00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:59,480 Like, I know exactly what you want, but what do I get out of 985 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,080 it? Because even there's times where 986 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,280 a treat or food is not even enough, you know, that's not 987 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,480 enough for them. They look at that man, you'll 988 00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,240 feed me later, you know, you're not going to make me starve out 989 00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:10,120 here. I'll get it later. 990 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,080 I'm not going to stand up and pull whatever you want. 991 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,080 It's fine. Get it later. 992 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:15,360 It's not really important, you know. 993 00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,400 And they get into that mindset quite easily. 994 00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,920 And the amount of times where I was a puppy even like with my 995 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,520 Akitas, I've tried to do some different type of training with 996 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,440 them and I had like a squeaking ball or a Weiss toy. 997 00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,680 I've even had like tennis balls that are made out of like real 998 00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,840 rabbit pelt from like these hunter shops and stuff like that 999 00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:37,520 just to kind of kick start some kind of like prey mentality. 1000 00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,440 Still would be more engaged in training with me. 1001 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,840 No, not interested. It's it's boring now. 1002 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,360 I've done it once or twice. I really don't have much more 1003 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,200 interest in doing whatever it is that you want to do. 1004 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:50,840 And the same goes for walking and stuff like that too. 1005 00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,440 Like you want them to heal for like a long period of time. 1006 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,760 Good luck. They're not really that kind of 1007 00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:57,800 like type breed. Like there's like one Instagram 1008 00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:02,520 page that I follow where a guy has an American Nikita healing 1009 00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,800 great in like the middle of London. 1010 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,480 Like a really, really like busy area. 1011 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:09,440 Turns out I was with an E collar. 1012 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,200 So I was like, oh, it's not that impressive anymore. 1013 00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:16,680 You know, if, if it's a case where you're abusing your dog 1014 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,920 and zapping your dog into obedience, then for me it has no 1015 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,560 talent OR like value in it in any way, shape or form. 1016 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,880 If you're going to post videos like that with a dog that's not 1017 00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:27,640 known to be obedient, you're just putting the dog for 1018 00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:29,560 unnecessary pain. There's no point. 1019 00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:33,120 You know, I can grab a leash and walk with a loose leash pretty 1020 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,840 nicely. Inhale in London with my with 1021 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:37,840 two Akitas. I could even do it with all six 1022 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:39,760 of my dogs and I don't need an E collar for that. 1023 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,880 It's it's not that impressive. But yeah, you see a lot of that 1024 00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:45,600 going on these days. But yeah, those are the main 1025 00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,000 three. I would say in terms of like 1026 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,440 genetic characteristics, that's in this dog. 1027 00:50:49,720 --> 00:50:53,600 Same sex aggression, prey, Dr and then stubbornness 100% OK. 1028 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,800 I didn't think that stubbornness was because because dogs don't 1029 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,760 have morals and values the same way that humans. 1030 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:02,960 Do so. I didn't do that. 1031 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,400 So. So maybe that's just a way for 1032 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,240 humans to identify a certain characteristic. 1033 00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,280 But maybe, yeah, I mean, for for me, it's the best way to 1034 00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,200 describe it. You know, that I can't think of 1035 00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,280 anything else to say other than all they're just stubborn and 1036 00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,240 that's it. Because I even remember at one 1037 00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:20,600 point, like my male Akita was like 6 months old and he would 1038 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,960 do this thing where he would just sit and just shut off like 1039 00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,000 you, you would look at his eyes and he's he's just, he's in 1040 00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:28,440 spirit. He's completely somewhere else. 1041 00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,600 And I sent a video to my breeder saying like, did I 1042 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:33,480 psychologically harm him in some way? 1043 00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,320 Did I do something wrong outside? 1044 00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:36,600 Is it? Is it the fact that he's 1045 00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,040 overwhelmed? Like because again, don't forget 1046 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,280 when a dog moves country, it's actually kind of a bit worrying 1047 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,240 for them too, because they're not hearing the same sounds from 1048 00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:46,080 people talking the way they do in other places too. 1049 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,800 And I just thought that the whole move was a lot for him 1050 00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:50,720 really. And my breeder just said, just 1051 00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:52,280 keep walking. Don't be silly. 1052 00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,720 Like he's just being stubborn. Just just keep walking and he 1053 00:51:55,720 --> 00:51:57,280 will come. And eventually I started doing 1054 00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,200 that a bit more and like feeling less sorry for him. 1055 00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,880 And then he realised, oh, I'm, I'm no longer doing this game 1056 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:03,400 where I stop and feed him or whatever. 1057 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,360 I'm just walking. So he was like, OK, I guess that 1058 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,120 game is over. And he never did it again. 1059 00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,840 Three times it took me to get him out of that mentality and 1060 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,000 now he just doesn't do it anymore. 1061 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,760 OK, that's interesting because I, I feel like I've had, I've 1062 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:21,240 had similar experience with Doona, Spanish Greyhound and 1063 00:52:21,240 --> 00:52:24,880 she, I can say her name even now she's on the sofa, ears don't 1064 00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,400 even perk up. It's like I'm an alien speaking 1065 00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:32,360 a different language altogether. And, but she can be fast asleep 1066 00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,520 on my bed and there could be a rustle and a Bush outside and 1067 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:40,200 she's like, you know, like it's, it's, it's weird. 1068 00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:44,080 But also, I can look at her and she can be like, that is like 1069 00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,320 nothing there, you know, it's like nothing behind those eyes. 1070 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:49,160 It's bizarre. But. 1071 00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,520 But again, going for a walk near an open field, she is just 1072 00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,480 constantly scanning the horizon 100%. 1073 00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,440 It's really fascinating. Yeah. 1074 00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,440 Really, really fascinating that you have a similar experience 1075 00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,880 but with a different breed. Yeah, yeah. 1076 00:53:03,720 --> 00:53:06,120 Mad. Anyways, back to breeding. 1077 00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,920 So I wanted to find out from you. 1078 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:15,680 So I've heard people kind of defend their position as 1079 00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,080 breeders saying, oh, I'm a responsible breeder. 1080 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,280 And I've had other people say, oh, I'm an ethical breeder. 1081 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:23,840 Is there much of a difference between the two? 1082 00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:25,760 And to you, what do those things mean? 1083 00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:31,640 I mean, they're both like almost the same word just said 1084 00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,400 differently in my opinion, like responsible, ethical, whatever 1085 00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,000 you want to put it. For me, there's, there's a few 1086 00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,600 characteristics that defines you as whether you are or not. 1087 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:46,360 You know, the first one is if, if it comes be that no one buys 1088 00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,760 these dogs from you or no one steps up and says I'd like a 1089 00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,400 dog, can you actually keep all of them? 1090 00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,040 And I, I don't mean from like a standpoint where it's like 1091 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:58,480 ethically, should you whatever, are you financially in a 1092 00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,680 position to care, take care of these dogs if one of them gets 1093 00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,680 sick the way that mine wanted, can you spare the time to be 1094 00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:06,800 able to do that? Because it was so crazy, because 1095 00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,440 when we had the litter, my wife quit her job two weeks before, 1096 00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,320 just coincidentally, it wasn't even like it was, oh, I'll quit 1097 00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,320 my job because the dog's pregnant, She was unhappy and 1098 00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:20,440 she quit and that's it. So, and at that point too, I'd 1099 00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,720 also quit my job like 2 months before that. 1100 00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:25,560 So it was almost like the universe, whatever you want to 1101 00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:27,360 call it, God, whatever, you believe in it, which is perfect 1102 00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,800 timing the way that it happened. But again, do you have the time 1103 00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:33,640 to take care of those dogs? 3 Will you responsibly train 1104 00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:37,040 those dogs to a good state so that people receive a, a, a 1105 00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,480 pretty manageable dog? Because The thing is, I've had 1106 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:44,440 clients that have got on a dog, a puppy, and it's already 1107 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:47,920 displaying aggression that I haven't seen in years, you know, 1108 00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:51,480 and it's only 2-3 months old. And it's like, that's really 1109 00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:55,080 traumatising for a, a couple that already have a dog that's 1110 00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:57,480 actually really well behaved and they want to add another because 1111 00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:58,720 they want the dog to have a friend. 1112 00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:01,960 Which again, I'm not against the idea in, in any way. 1113 00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,120 I mean, I live in a multiple dog households to be really ironic 1114 00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,920 if I was. But yeah, can you train those 1115 00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:09,240 dogs to get to a manageable state? 1116 00:55:09,240 --> 00:55:12,920 So when people pick these dogs up, they're actually set for a 1117 00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,640 long time and the only thing that they need is maybe help 1118 00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:17,720 with teenage phase because they rebel a little bit. 1119 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,200 Or in in females case when they go into season and they get a 1120 00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,800 bit Moody because they're not feeling so good, a bit of 1121 00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:25,240 additional support from that point onwards. 1122 00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:27,440 And after that you haven't got to worry about any anything at 1123 00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:29,360 all. Are you able to do that? 1124 00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:31,720 Because some people say, oh, it's not really up to the 1125 00:55:31,720 --> 00:55:34,840 breeder to train that dog. But I disagree completely. 1126 00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,880 You know, you've got no right giving a a life to someone that 1127 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:40,280 doesn't already know how to live. 1128 00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:44,080 It's live its life in that way. For me, it's it's completely 1129 00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,000 wrong to do that. You should train your dogs to a 1130 00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:51,600 good state to heal, to be social with other dogs and with other 1131 00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,600 people dogs is not necessarily like a really higher priority, 1132 00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,480 but people 100% children definitely. 1133 00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,560 Oh my God, the amount of socialisation that I did with 1134 00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:02,400 people's kids was absolutely insane with the puppies and I 1135 00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:03,920 really wanted them to be good with children. 1136 00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:09,080 Luckily they are. But also when it comes to like 1137 00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,520 the more more like really really important points about this. 1138 00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,840 I would also say, are you in a position to take that dog back 1139 00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:16,400 should things go wrong for the owner? 1140 00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:21,080 Because I've spoken to breeders about dogs that they've sold to 1141 00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,600 people and I've said, you know, this is happening to that person 1142 00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,960 and they're really struggling with it might be financially or 1143 00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,080 mentally, whatever. And the right thing to do in 1144 00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,840 that moment would have been to stepped in and said, hey, I know 1145 00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:33,080 you're going through quite a lot. 1146 00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,920 And I'm just saying if you need a break from the dog, you can 1147 00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,880 let it live with me until you're ready to come pick it up, sort 1148 00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,160 yourself out. And then after that, say to me, 1149 00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:45,000 OK, I'm ready now. And that's it, you know, with 1150 00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:48,400 our puppies, we have secondary like contact information on all 1151 00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,400 of them. And even though I live in the 1152 00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:55,960 Lithuanian, I still have my UK SIM active for God forbid that I 1153 00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:59,160 get a call from a vet saying that it's been surrendered or 1154 00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,120 it's it's escaped and now we have it, whatever. 1155 00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,400 And people might think that I'm exaggerating, but I will. 1156 00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:07,480 I would genuinely will take a Ryanair flight to the UK to pick 1157 00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,160 up the dog that I've bred and bring it back here. 1158 00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:13,320 I don't care how much it cost. I don't care what process I need 1159 00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,720 to go through, whatever, I will happily do it for all seven of 1160 00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,120 them if it was a case where they had to come back to me. 1161 00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:25,360 I do believe that if you do like your research with people who 1162 00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:28,600 are buying them correctly, it's more likely that you won't have 1163 00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,760 to get into that situation. And it's nothing that I would, 1164 00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:34,680 you know, wish for someone to be in that position. 1165 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:38,000 But again, if anyone from that litter called me and said, hey, 1166 00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:39,640 I need to return the stub for what? 1167 00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:41,880 I don't even care what the reason is, even if it's just, 1168 00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,000 oh, I don't want it anymore, fine, bring it back. 1169 00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,120 Can you do that is a really important question. 1170 00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:52,560 But also when it comes to again, it's all about financials again. 1171 00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:56,080 But, you know, if that dog had a genetic problem, for example, or 1172 00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,240 a disease or something like that, that was caused from the 1173 00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:02,280 breeding, not because of the owner's problem necessarily, can 1174 00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:03,840 you pay for that? Because that is your 1175 00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,040 responsibility. You know, it is something that 1176 00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,240 you've caused because say for example, my dogs had 1177 00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,320 allergenesis imperfecta and the puppies had brittle bones 1178 00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:15,120 disease like I told you about before, as a result of my 1179 00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,280 breeding, I am then liable, in my opinion, for that dog's 1180 00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,080 treatment. Whatever needs to happen for 1181 00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:22,960 that dog, I need to pay for it and I need to be responsible for 1182 00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,640 that. Can you do that? 1183 00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,920 Would you do that? You know, because again, if 1184 00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,160 someone said that to you and you end up having to pay a lot of 1185 00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,320 money to treat that dog, a lot of people might, you know, stick 1186 00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:35,120 their nose up and say, actually, no, I'm not doing that. 1187 00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:36,680 You know, it's your dog now. It's not mine. 1188 00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:38,640 I sold it to you. It's your responsibility. 1189 00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:42,280 But for me, I would never feel the need to back up in that 1190 00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,760 moment and say something else. I would always be happy to 1191 00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:48,480 compensate the owner for whatever it is that I've caused. 1192 00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:52,400 Because ultimately, if it's a genetic disease that's passed on 1193 00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,440 from the parents, whatever, it is your fault. 1194 00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:56,840 You bred these two dogs. You brought them into the world 1195 00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,280 and you've sold someone an unhealthy puppy. 1196 00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,880 And so for me, that would be the main characteristics of someone 1197 00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:05,760 who's an ethical slash responsible dog breeder. 1198 00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:10,400 Yeah, 100%. I I recently learned that 1199 00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:14,160 apparently people have this impression that purebred dogs 1200 00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:20,000 are a standard, and I've learned that that's not the case. 1201 00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,800 So for people listening who only know purebred as a selling 1202 00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:27,600 point, what does purebred actually mean and what does it 1203 00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,960 not mean? So for me, the definition has 1204 00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:34,240 always been that the mother and the father of the litter are 1205 00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:38,160 both the same breed. That's that's what it means for 1206 00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,760 me. Again, we're in a world where 1207 00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:44,200 everything can mean anything. So whether that definition is 1208 00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:46,800 different to you, then great. But for me that that's the case. 1209 00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:52,320 But again, people have, I don't know, cavapoose, for example. 1210 00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:54,000 Do they breed with another cavapoose? 1211 00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,040 So Cavalier King Charles Spaniel cross with poodle, they breed it 1212 00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:59,040 with another dog that's been crossed with the same thing and 1213 00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,240 then they go it's a purebred Cavapoo. 1214 01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:05,320 It's not there's no such thing as a purebred cavapoo because 1215 01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,960 again, this dog breed is not a recognised breed. 1216 01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:11,080 And and The thing is too, I'm actually very suspicious of 1217 01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:13,960 people who breed these dogs because the fact that I've heard 1218 01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,680 so many people that own like Cavapoos, for example, who say, 1219 01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:19,560 oh, the mother was a Cava like King Charles Spaniel and the 1220 01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:21,840 father was a poodle. And they both want things that 1221 01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:23,840 Crofts. And it's like how? 1222 01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:27,320 Because. I've been to crafts once with my 1223 01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,400 dogs to compete and I know the community that exists in in that 1224 01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:33,000 kind of environment. And I don't think anyone in a 1225 01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,640 million years would be like, OK, you know, what if this breeding 1226 01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,560 thing doesn't go to plan and I can't really recuperate the 1227 01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:40,640 money that I've put into my breeding programme or whatever, 1228 01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,320 I'll just do this crossbreeding thing and that'll pay whatever. 1229 01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:46,800 And, and that's, I don't know anyone who would actually be 1230 01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,800 open to doing that, you know, whether it happens in secret or 1231 01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:53,000 whether people are exaggerating about their dogs just to get 1232 01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:54,800 them to breed and make money, whatever it might be. 1233 01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,680 But I don't think that that's the case. 1234 01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,560 You know, like, and again, if you have pedigree paperwork, 1235 01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:02,920 that's that's another great thing to have too. 1236 01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:06,640 And like the funny part is like in the UK for Kennel Club you 1237 01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,840 need to show 5 generations of your dog to have it have 1238 01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,880 pedigree papers and you need to have both parents registered to 1239 01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,760 Kennel Club in order for the puppies to be registered to you. 1240 01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,520 For Akitas you have the Akihoo Hosankai which is like the 1241 01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,920 federation. For Akita specifically, like the 1242 01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:26,600 database they enter and everything, it's the Akita 1243 01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:29,880 specific database. Both of my dogs are Akihoo 1244 01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,280 registered and I have 15 generations shown on the 1245 01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,840 database, not 5. So I have even longer proof that 1246 01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:39,960 my dogs are purebred. So that's what it means for me 1247 01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:42,680 personally. Mother and father are both the 1248 01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:46,000 same breed, and not only that, you can show a really long 1249 01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:50,440 lineage of that dog being bred by the same breed continuously. 1250 01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,000 Right. But in terms of its health, 1251 01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,600 that's not part of the equation, right? 1252 01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:00,560 Depends because on some databases it will show that it's 1253 01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:04,120 had an eye test and a hip test and an allogenesis imperfecta, 1254 01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,000 whether it's a carrier of that gene or affected by that gene, 1255 01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,080 whatever. Some places you will see it. 1256 01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:12,520 But generally speaking, no. I mean, in Kennel Club, UK 1257 01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:15,640 Kennel Club, it will say that it's health tested, but it 1258 01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:18,160 doesn't show what health tests. So you could get the dog's eye 1259 01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,080 tested, for example, but it's got bad knees and bad hips, and 1260 01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:23,680 you won't know that from. Looking at it or whatever. 1261 01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:28,200 And a lot of breeders would actually use the Australian 1262 01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:31,720 system for health testing. And with the Australian system 1263 01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:35,240 you can keep a lot of documents classified and people don't have 1264 01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:37,280 access to that information. Whereas if you use like a 1265 01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:41,040 British health testing centre, whatever, if you dug through 1266 01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,040 enough, you could find out the results of any dog that's been 1267 01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,640 tested because it gets sent automatically, whether you like 1268 01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:49,280 the result or not, it doesn't matter. 1269 01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:51,640 It gets sent off because you've now entered your dog to be 1270 01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,000 scrutinised from that point onward. 1271 01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:55,320 So you have no choice in the matter. 1272 01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:58,320 So say for example, you're like a big breeder who has like a lot 1273 01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:01,720 of awards and everything, but you've entered your dog to be 1274 01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:03,600 health tested and turns out it's got bad hips. 1275 01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:07,120 Well, you know, bad luck and now everyone knows that your dog has 1276 01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:09,240 bad hips. But if you use the Australian 1277 01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,320 system, no one will ever know because it's it's under lock and 1278 01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:13,040 key. So. 1279 01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:15,480 So where would they have to declare this in the UK? 1280 01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:17,400 Is that through the Kennel Club? Yeah. 1281 01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:21,200 So on Kennel Club registries, if you search up the dog's 1282 01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:23,360 registered name, it would just say health tested. 1283 01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:25,720 If it's been health tested for one or five things, it would 1284 01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:26,920 just say that it's been health tested. 1285 01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,880 But it doesn't show what health tests specifically? 1286 01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:31,720 And it won't show you the result either. 1287 01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:35,120 OK, Yeah, this is what I recently learned because I was 1288 01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:37,880 under the impression that pedigree meant, you know, the 1289 01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:40,680 best of the best of the best. But I didn't realise that 1290 01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:44,640 actually they is just lineage. You know you can. 1291 01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:46,560 You can. That term is that term is so 1292 01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,360 overused. I'm like, again, I see people 1293 01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:53,440 who have like backyard breedings, no health testing, 1294 01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:57,200 no, nothing, no, even no, not even like AKC paper to to say my 1295 01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:00,160 dog's registered and they'll put in the caption saying champion 1296 01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:01,880 bloodline. It's like, what does that mean 1297 01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:03,800 exactly? You know, because if you're 1298 01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:07,520 talking about how the dog is like loosely related to this dog 1299 01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:10,440 in Romania who's won two awards, that doesn't mean anything. 1300 01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:14,400 It doesn't mean anything. You know, like you can't sell it 1301 01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:16,720 to that person being like, oh, it's a champion bloodline. 1302 01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,480 Therefore I'm charging 2000 more than the other person. 1303 01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:21,920 Like, no, it doesn't mean anything. 1304 01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:29,120 You know, my dog's parents, my female Akita, our parents have 1305 01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:33,200 won the best dog of Poland, best dog of Sweden, best dog of 1306 01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:34,840 Finland. I can go on and name all these 1307 01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:36,880 things. And they've even won best couple 1308 01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:40,920 in like several dog shows and he's come second in the world 1309 01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,080 dog show, which is a really, really big achievement because 1310 01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:44,880 everyone from all over the world competes and that. 1311 01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:49,040 But again, I have never advertised one saying champion 1312 01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,640 bloodline, even though I would actually have some right to say 1313 01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:55,240 it because of the accreditations and and awards that the parents 1314 01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:56,760 have won. I could easily say that, but I 1315 01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:58,600 don't because it doesn't mean anything. 1316 01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:02,160 And people often use that term as as a reason to justify ex 1317 01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:05,760 more expensive price. And for me, it's it's a big red 1318 01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:08,880 flag when buying a dog when people say, if you ask them what 1319 01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:11,160 health tests have been done, again, you even see this on 1320 01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:14,320 social media. Like every time I see a a litter 1321 01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:16,880 on social media, I will always ask what health testing has been 1322 01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:21,120 done to justify this litter. And people will say, oh, it's 1323 01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:22,320 been to the vets and it's all good. 1324 01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,000 And it's like a health check at the vets doesn't mean anything, 1325 01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:26,320 you know? And again, this is something 1326 01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:28,640 that isn't spoken often about enough. 1327 01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:31,440 So many people that I've known, clients that I've trained have 1328 01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:33,320 said, oh, my vet has told me I should breed him. 1329 01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:36,040 Why? Since when has your vet been 1330 01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:39,880 like the regulating authority on whether the dog should be bred 1331 01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:42,120 or not? You know, and it does make me 1332 01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:44,520 think if it's part of something bigger where they want more dogs 1333 01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:46,600 in the world so they have more clients in the future or 1334 01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,080 something else relating to it in any way. 1335 01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:51,960 But yeah, it's, it's a overused time. 1336 01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,720 And I even think that nowadays the term pedigrees is starting 1337 01:05:55,720 --> 01:06:00,440 to lose its value to you because now we're switching from Kennel 1338 01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:03,720 Club assured breeders list to a different system in the UK, 1339 01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:06,600 which means that anyone can just register anywhere, anytime. 1340 01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,520 And it doesn't matter if you're Kennel Club approved or not. 1341 01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:13,160 You can just upload your litter and take money and that's it, 1342 01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:14,800 you know? So we're heading into a more 1343 01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:17,880 scarier state in my opinion. Oh 100%. 1344 01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:22,680 Out of curiosity, when you breed your dogs, what characteristics 1345 01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:25,040 do you look for? What is it that you look for in 1346 01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:28,280 in in the male and the female for breeding? 1347 01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:34,080 For me, like it's three points. The first one is temperament. 1348 01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:38,680 I know a lot of people will say that body of the dog or the body 1349 01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,520 composition, muscle tone, things like that is much more 1350 01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:45,480 important. But I've seen many stunning 1351 01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:50,400 Akitas, like looks wise that are aggressive as hell and you can't 1352 01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:53,440 even approach them. You can't even look at them 1353 01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:54,640 because they just start growling at you. 1354 01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:57,200 And for me, that's, that's not good. 1355 01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:00,920 I spend more time at home than I do in dog shows. 1356 01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:02,920 And for me, home life is very important. 1357 01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:04,440 You know, really, really, really. 1358 01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:08,400 I can't express to you enough how the way that they are at 1359 01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,120 home, the way that they are with me as a, as a human, the way 1360 01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,960 they are with my family, with my nieces, my nephews, children, 1361 01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:16,880 newborns, whatever it might be, the way they are with other dogs 1362 01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:20,680 and how they are socially. That's a lot more important than 1363 01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:23,600 having like a great hips, for example. 1364 01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:26,280 You know, I'm not saying that body composition isn't 1365 01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:28,080 important, but for me, temperament just means 1366 01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:30,520 everything. If if you're not comfortable 1367 01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:32,560 with them at home and you're annoyed at a particular 1368 01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:35,080 character trait that that's going to haunt you for the rest 1369 01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:38,360 of your life, unless you're happy with that, it's just not 1370 01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:40,080 going to it's. Not worth it. 1371 01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:41,680 It's. Not going to be good for you. 1372 01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:43,200 You know, you're not going to have the experience that you 1373 01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:44,360 want. You know, a lot of people talk 1374 01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:46,800 about like having a dog as if it's like a chore or something 1375 01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:48,280 like that. And I really hate that because 1376 01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:50,600 like, why have it if you if you're not enjoying it? 1377 01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:53,120 For me it doesn't make any sense. 1378 01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:57,280 When I had a Mysheba initially she was so protective of the 1379 01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:01,040 house. Like again like typical of the 1380 01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:03,120 genetic makeup of that dog. But they used just used to 1381 01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,440 surround certain areas to make sure things were OK. 1382 01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:08,280 And if they saw anything out of the out of the ordinary in any 1383 01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:11,000 way they would alert the hunter to come and finish off the 1384 01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,800 animal. Whatever, chase, small game. 1385 01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:16,800 So when a bird would land in our house and Brighton to the 1386 01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:18,840 windowsill, she would lose her mind. 1387 01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:21,640 If someone was near the gate, she would at least bark once or 1388 01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:24,960 twice. It annoyed me to some extent 1389 01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:27,720 because my Akitas were never like that, you know? 1390 01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:31,240 Sorry my. Pants just bloomed. 1391 01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:35,160 Yeah. Like, what's it called? 1392 01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:39,319 You know, that really scared me. Sorry. 1393 01:08:39,319 --> 01:08:41,960 Go ahead. My Akitas were never like that. 1394 01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:44,160 And again, like in general Akitas aren't ready to breed to 1395 01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:46,240 bark at everything. The only bark when there is a 1396 01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:50,640 real reason to bark, when you're actually in danger, when there's 1397 01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:53,880 actually something to be alerted about, that's when they'll bark. 1398 01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:58,200 You know, we had one time where someone got the wrong address 1399 01:08:58,200 --> 01:08:59,760 and knocked at our door at 4:00 in the morning. 1400 01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:04,439 And my mail Akita was like growling and barking, but it 1401 01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:08,680 wasn't even like a growl growl. It was like a low like get out 1402 01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:12,080 of my house kind of thing, you know, because he just never saw 1403 01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:13,399 that before. I expected it. 1404 01:09:13,399 --> 01:09:16,279 And he was woken up to so obviously a bit, a bit of fear 1405 01:09:16,279 --> 01:09:19,080 involved in that. My Sheba didn't do anything in 1406 01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:21,040 that moment. She was kind of like a coward in 1407 01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,240 the back, like don't hurt me kind of thing. 1408 01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:25,600 And. Then what, once the person left, 1409 01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:28,240 she went back to normal. But in general, my sheba would 1410 01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:32,680 just kind of patrol the house and just kind of bark at things 1411 01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:36,880 happening, you know, a bird landing on the windowsill or, I 1412 01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:38,960 don't know, the school kids coming out or whatever it might 1413 01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:40,359 be, you know, like just in general. 1414 01:09:40,359 --> 01:09:42,359 And it annoyed me for a bit, but I'm not realised. 1415 01:09:42,359 --> 01:09:44,399 She's only doing the thing that she was bred to do. 1416 01:09:44,399 --> 01:09:48,200 It has nothing that I can do to change it in any way and so I've 1417 01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:52,240 got to either accept it or just be annoyed forever and I chose 1418 01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:53,920 to obviously accept it and to learn to live with it. 1419 01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:56,720 Now it doesn't bother me in the slightest and I'm really glad 1420 01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:59,840 that I went through that because it gave me another tier of of 1421 01:09:59,920 --> 01:10:02,200 patience when it comes to dealing with her body 1422 01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:05,200 characteristics. I'm always looking for good 1423 01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:09,320 angulation in the back of the dog's body because it's a really 1424 01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:13,280 big problem where dogs either have over angulated back legs or 1425 01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:15,640 even worse, they have really straight legs. 1426 01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:18,800 And so they end up walking, I call it tik toking when they 1427 01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:21,120 just kind of walk like stick figures, you know, almost. 1428 01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:25,840 And they have like no hip support when they walk. 1429 01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:29,480 And again, when you see dogs running in dog shows, their gait 1430 01:10:29,480 --> 01:10:31,480 is so off when it's completely straight. 1431 01:10:31,480 --> 01:10:34,320 And that natural flow of the body to where it's supposed to 1432 01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:37,120 just kind of be fluid as one motion. 1433 01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:39,680 I know that realistically there's four legs moving in that 1434 01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:42,920 equation, but it should be fluid, you know, It should 1435 01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:46,800 almost be as if there's just two legs doing this rather than 1436 01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:50,080 individual. You know, a bit more fluidity is 1437 01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:52,000 what I'm looking for when it comes to the body and things 1438 01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:55,120 like that. Chest wise, you're looking for a 1439 01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:58,120 good H frame, as I call it in Sheba's. 1440 01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:00,600 Like the H shape. You're looking for that frame 1441 01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:04,160 with the head. You're looking for small ears. 1442 01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:09,320 You don't want big butt, floppy ears, ears that flop when they 1443 01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:11,800 are on the run. You don't really want that 1444 01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:15,120 usually. And when it comes to lips and 1445 01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:18,080 expression, you want tight lips, like nothing sagging around the 1446 01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:21,240 muscle like the muscle area. And you're looking for a good 1447 01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:23,800 expression. Again, like people can look this 1448 01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:26,560 up and whatever they want to. When I say expression, it kind 1449 01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:30,400 of the dog looks like it's smiling almost, you know, and 1450 01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:33,920 the the better it looks almost like the better it's considered 1451 01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:36,320 to have that expression. With Akitas, it's very 1452 01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:40,240 different, but I'm looking for a good muscle tone, good body 1453 01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:41,840 angulation. Like I talked about before, 1454 01:11:42,440 --> 01:11:44,880 there's three different, there's three or four different tails 1455 01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:48,840 that are acceptable in Shebas. There's one that's super rare 1456 01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:51,800 called the Sabre tail where it just like kind of dips up in 1457 01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:54,360 like a sort of almost sea Crescent kind of shape. 1458 01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:59,280 Very few dogs have this and it's really great if a dog does have 1459 01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:00,760 that. It's really, really desirable. 1460 01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:04,840 But the key is they're supposed to have like a double curl, but 1461 01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:07,880 in Shebas, if you have a double curl tail, it's not as good. 1462 01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:11,040 They're just looking for one slight tail, slight curl up on 1463 01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:14,000 the on the body and that's it. That's ultimately what you're 1464 01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:16,560 looking for. And then with colours and 1465 01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:19,240 everything like the the white parts of a Shiba, it's called 1466 01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:22,000 Urojira. So you're looking for nice 1467 01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:23,880 markings. It can't be too high up on the 1468 01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:26,680 body or too low down either. You know, you're looking for 1469 01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:30,640 good markings and good Urojira, so to speak. 1470 01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:34,120 It almost should be like a gradient, if that makes sense. 1471 01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:37,480 You kind of see the colour fading towards the top of the 1472 01:12:37,480 --> 01:12:40,320 dog a bit more and then it kind of goes back to its natural 1473 01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:42,360 colour. So red ones, they have like 1474 01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:45,920 white legs and white paws. We can see the whiteness fades 1475 01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:48,640 as it goes up and you're looking for that. 1476 01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:52,080 You know, with red Akita, it's normal for them to have 1/2 1477 01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:54,040 white face at the bottom and then red at the top. 1478 01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:57,040 But then when she was have a full white face at a young age, 1479 01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:00,800 it's considered bad. They call a clown face but a lot 1480 01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:04,000 of old she was have crown faces and it's normal to have it with 1481 01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:06,960 a senior sheba, but if it's a young one that's that's going 1482 01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:08,880 through that, it's not so good. Yeah. 1483 01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:12,360 So who who decides that these things are bad? 1484 01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:14,880 As in like, is this just a marketing thing? 1485 01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:17,680 No, no, no, definitely not. Definitely no. 1486 01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:20,600 It's it's not about desirability or like the looks of the dog in 1487 01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:24,640 any way, shape or form. So funny enough, like all these 1488 01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:28,960 breeds have gone through a time where they went almost instinct 1489 01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:31,800 extinct entirely, you know, I mean, other breeds have done 1490 01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:33,840 too, but for the Japanese people, this is like a really, 1491 01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:36,680 really big deal in terms like breed preservation, everything. 1492 01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:39,880 There actually used to be I think 3 or 4 different types of 1493 01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:43,080 Sheba before, but they came really close to being extinct. 1494 01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:44,440 So they just combined all of them. 1495 01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:47,920 And from the combination of breeding all of them came the 1496 01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:51,840 four colours that we have now, white sesame, black and tan red 1497 01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:55,080 whites you're not actually allowed to show. 1498 01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:59,320 And it's very look down upon if you breed them because it's 1499 01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:01,880 considered that the uterger has extended all over the body. 1500 01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:05,240 Funny enough with Akitas, a white Akitas perfectly 1501 01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:08,160 acceptable provided that it's got good muscle tone, good body 1502 01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:11,120 shape, other acceptable features and so on. 1503 01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:16,960 But the nepo group which is in charge of like the SHEBA 1504 01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:21,120 standards, they're the ones who decided what markings are 1505 01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:23,080 acceptable, what markings are not done. 1506 01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:26,480 Ultimately, they've put these rules because of pigmentation. 1507 01:14:26,480 --> 01:14:31,920 Really, if the white of the dog is too overextending, it ideally 1508 01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:35,920 means weaker pigmentation. And so only certain markings are 1509 01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:39,360 acceptable to be bred, at least for the standpoint. 1510 01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:43,200 So you can have a dog that has unacceptable markings, but it's 1511 01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:44,960 a really good pet dog. And provided that you don't 1512 01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:47,360 breed that dog, it's still considered OK to have that dog. 1513 01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:49,320 No one's going to say anything about that. 1514 01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:54,600 But with regards to confirmation and eligibility to be bred, yes, 1515 01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:57,360 there is even I agree. I would say yeah, in terms of 1516 01:14:57,360 --> 01:15:00,400 like maintaining healthy skin pigment and good coat length, 1517 01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:03,360 things like that. You should watch out for the 1518 01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:06,520 markings of a dog or the type of coat that it has. 1519 01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:08,520 You know, like red Akitas, for example. 1520 01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:11,200 They have a big problem where the coat is too short and it's 1521 01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:14,280 so common to have a short haired Akita. 1522 01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:18,680 I look at my female Akita, my male Akita, my female looks a 1523 01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:21,800 little bit bigger, I would say. But when she sheds her coat, she 1524 01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:25,680 looks the same, if anything smaller than my male, you know, 1525 01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:28,680 But when my male is in full coat, I can't really tell when 1526 01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:31,720 he's in full coat versus when he's lost his coat because there 1527 01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:33,160 isn't really much difference in looks. 1528 01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:36,600 And so when it comes to like healthy skin pigmentation and 1529 01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:39,880 good coats, genetics, so to speak, I definitely think that 1530 01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:41,840 there should be like a regulation authority saying that 1531 01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:44,720 all this is good and this is bad because they have seen what it 1532 01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:47,720 does to breed the opposite way and to breed the way they're 1533 01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:49,760 doing it now. So it's definitely good. 1534 01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:52,560 But I can see why people would think that it's like a marketing 1535 01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,440 thing and they would want certain looks because it's more 1536 01:15:55,440 --> 01:15:58,160 desirable to sell more whatever. But it's definitely not about 1537 01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:00,520 that. Definitely people aren't doing 1538 01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:02,720 it because of that either. You know, you won't find people 1539 01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:04,800 that are selling white ones just because it looks better or 1540 01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:07,040 whatever. Not at all. 1541 01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:12,600 Yeah, OK, going back to what you said earlier about you believe 1542 01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:15,320 that it is the breeder's responsibility to train the dog 1543 01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:19,600 before the dog goes to the family, How old are your Akitas 1544 01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:23,040 and Shebas before they leave their litter mates and their 1545 01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:25,480 mum? Depends on the situation. 1546 01:16:25,480 --> 01:16:29,560 So when we had the litter, the first one left at 11 weeks old I 1547 01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:31,760 believe. So he had his first job and he 1548 01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:33,320 was weaned off to his mum completely. 1549 01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:35,480 And the guy was really experienced too. 1550 01:16:35,480 --> 01:16:38,080 He was a really good dog Walker before, he had a lot of 1551 01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:41,320 experience with Chow Chows and like other spits breeds and he 1552 01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:43,920 actually wanted a Chow Chow. But when he saw the letter, he 1553 01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:45,960 got persuaded to getting an Akita instead. 1554 01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:49,280 And even now he says I can't imagine myself with any other 1555 01:16:49,280 --> 01:16:51,200 dog. But it depends on the person 1556 01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:54,040 because and also depends on the dog because like I said before, 1557 01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:58,480 we had one in particular, a male who was a bit aggressive. 1558 01:16:58,480 --> 01:17:01,440 He liked to start fights and he would also like to cause fights 1559 01:17:01,440 --> 01:17:04,520 between two dogs and then just back away as if he didn't do 1560 01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:06,080 anything. So he was a bit of an 1561 01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:08,720 instigator. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1562 01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:12,800 I I did actually try and figure out what I did wrong with him to 1563 01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:15,680 cultivate that kind of energy, because none of them had that 1564 01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:19,320 issue, just him. And The thing is, too, he had 1565 01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:21,720 this really like, mean, looking like bear kind of face. 1566 01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:24,440 Like he had that face that was like, you know, I'm, I'm big and 1567 01:17:24,440 --> 01:17:25,920 I'm mean and like, you know, don't mess with me. 1568 01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:27,360 Kind of. He had that look about them. 1569 01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:30,760 And so everyone who met him was like, oh, he looks like a 1570 01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:31,960 killer. He looks like this. 1571 01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:34,360 He looks like that. I really want him because of 1572 01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:37,400 that. And even when I remember one 1573 01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:41,040 person in particular met him, he was a bit rough with him and he 1574 01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:42,880 growled and he was like, oh, I kind of like that. 1575 01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:45,840 Because imagine like no one would ever do anything to me if 1576 01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:47,920 I had a dog like this. And I immediately I thought, 1577 01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:51,200 what what are you doing with your life that people would try 1578 01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:53,320 and do something to you? Because we live in we lived in 1579 01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:55,080 Brighton. Like it's not like and people 1580 01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:57,320 have guns and people break into people's houses, whatever. 1581 01:17:57,320 --> 01:17:58,240 Like thing. Get me wrong. 1582 01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:00,960 You have some interesting characters in Brighton, but not 1583 01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:03,160 to the extent where you need like a killer Akita. 1584 01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:03,920 That's. Going to protect you. 1585 01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:05,800 Self protection. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1586 01:18:06,480 --> 01:18:09,560 It's not needed. And so I had maybe two or three 1587 01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:12,800 people like that that came to see him. 1588 01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:16,120 And I thought, I'm going to have to keep him because I don't 1589 01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:18,880 trust anyone with him. And on top of that, it was 1590 01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:22,440 training wise. He needed so much development to 1591 01:18:22,440 --> 01:18:24,680 actually get to a stage where I could even trust him with 1592 01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:26,320 anyone, in my opinion at least anyways. 1593 01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:29,040 And I thought to myself, I'm going to keep him most likely. 1594 01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:32,360 And at the time I was even filling out transport paperwork 1595 01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:34,280 for my dogs to be transported to Lithuania. 1596 01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:37,840 And I thought I will probably add his name just in case 1597 01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:40,640 because I don't think that I'm going to sell him to anyone. 1598 01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:45,360 He reached around six or seven months old and then he just 1599 01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:48,560 became the sweetest like boy ever. 1600 01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:52,160 And he was so gentle and he had no objections with anything. 1601 01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:54,480 And he was even great with his own father. 1602 01:18:54,480 --> 01:18:57,320 And that was like a big deal because everyone always said 1603 01:18:57,320 --> 01:18:59,680 like don't have father and son together in the same house, 1604 01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:01,560 don't have them close to one another. 1605 01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:04,640 But even when it comes like things like dominant behaviour, 1606 01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:07,960 like marking on trees and stuff like that, the dog was called 1607 01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:10,160 Katashi and my, his father was called Ichi. 1608 01:19:10,480 --> 01:19:13,840 Katashi would never pee on the same tree that Ichi would pee 1609 01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:15,400 on. He would go further and pee on a 1610 01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:17,760 different 1. He would fully respect the fact 1611 01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:19,960 that you've marked this tree and I'm going to go and find my own 1612 01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:21,400 tree. It's OK, no problem. 1613 01:19:22,360 --> 01:19:25,040 He wouldn't even like look at him during feeding or anything 1614 01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:27,360 like that because in his mind he thought, if I look at you when 1615 01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:29,200 you're eating, you're probably going to get aggressive with me. 1616 01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:32,160 So I'm just going to mind my own business and eat here and that's 1617 01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:34,640 it, you know? And he was great and he was so 1618 01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:36,600 respectful. And then obviously I decided to 1619 01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:39,240 keep him at that point because I was thinking he's good now. 1620 01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:43,560 And not only that, but he perfectly accepts everyone in 1621 01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:44,880 the house too. So he's great. 1622 01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:48,840 I will keep them. But then my wife got a, yeah, a 1623 01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:51,160 message from someone saying that they used to have an American 1624 01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:53,840 Akita and they're just looking for a well bred Japanese Akita. 1625 01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:56,080 They've never seen one before. Now they're seeing one. 1626 01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:57,440 They're losing their mind and everything. 1627 01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:00,240 I actually wanted to reject them so harsh. 1628 01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:04,240 Like I really wanted to find an excuse to not accept these 1629 01:20:04,240 --> 01:20:06,840 people. And I thought, you know, he was 1630 01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:09,280 really standoffish with everyone that came into the house before, 1631 01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:11,360 so maybe he'll do the same thing again. 1632 01:20:11,360 --> 01:20:15,280 And hopefully it won't happen. That was my mindset because I 1633 01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:18,320 really wanted to keep him. And he just decided to be really 1634 01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:20,840 friendly with them. And he was like jumping over 1635 01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:22,320 them. And he was such a big puppy too. 1636 01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:25,680 And I thought maybe that energy would make them not want him. 1637 01:20:26,120 --> 01:20:27,760 And they were super understanding. 1638 01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:30,800 Ideal owners, great people, and they said yeah, we'd love to 1639 01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:32,800 take him. And they took him. 1640 01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:38,440 So 11 weeks was the youngest. That's the. 1st 11 weeks was the 1641 01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:40,960 earliest that they've left. Yes, right. 1642 01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:43,240 OK. So first, first vaccination 1643 01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:45,960 followed by the fact that he was already experienced owner again, 1644 01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:50,440 he had a training PDF of all the like specific time marks, so 1645 01:20:50,440 --> 01:20:51,840 when you would need different training too. 1646 01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:54,160 And he followed everything to the letter and he was great. 1647 01:20:55,440 --> 01:20:58,320 Amazing. And so So what type of 1648 01:20:58,320 --> 01:21:01,280 socialisation would you have done by that point? 1649 01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:05,240 So at that point they would have been through town like Brighton 1650 01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:07,040 town, like through the lanes and stuff like that. 1651 01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:09,320 Any construction site I would find, I would actually eat my 1652 01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:12,080 lunch near any construction site that I would find. 1653 01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:15,640 A lot of Rd works happen in Brighton anyway, so it's not 1654 01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:17,120 hard to find those sorts of things. 1655 01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:20,800 I would sit at Preston Park while up there during that time 1656 01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:24,040 just so they could see dogs walk past and people walking past. 1657 01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:26,840 And there would always be a couple with a child wanting to 1658 01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:28,880 meet the puppy or pick the puppy up or whatever. 1659 01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:33,240 And I'll always allow it to happen to hand sanitizer first, 1660 01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:36,360 wash your hands, pick up the puppy, put it down, great. 1661 01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:38,400 Next one. And that would kind of be the 1662 01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:40,320 process. A lot of shops in the North 1663 01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:45,120 Lanes have held my dogs and worked with one puppy in one 1664 01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:46,480 hand and working with the other hand. 1665 01:21:46,480 --> 01:21:49,000 Whatever. Every Cafe you could possibly 1666 01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:53,880 imagine I've been to, I've been in and sat in with them just so 1667 01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:57,480 they could experience seeing life and like, you know, pots 1668 01:21:57,480 --> 01:22:00,720 and pans hitting the ground and I don't know, a coffee cup being 1669 01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:03,400 broken, whatever. Like every possible sound you 1670 01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:05,080 could imagine they've been exposed to. 1671 01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:08,000 And that's the type of social that's really important. 1672 01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:11,800 Dog to dog is, in my opinion less important because you can 1673 01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:16,000 teach a dog to be social. And The thing is to a lot of dog 1674 01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:18,920 owners, they have friends that have dogs and so they'll meet in 1675 01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:21,560 little congregations and that dog will have a circle of 1676 01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:24,520 friends that are already knows. And it's not hard to teach a dog 1677 01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:28,360 to just walk past another dog and not care about the dab stuff 1678 01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:31,280 is easy. But when it comes to life and 1679 01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:34,760 like being exposed to certain settings, certain environments, 1680 01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:37,960 in my opinion, it's really tough to do once you already had a dog 1681 01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:41,200 that's experienced like the process of being delivered 1682 01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:44,240 somewhere else or being driven somewhere else, for example. 1683 01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:47,760 It's tough for a dog to get used to that unless they have the 1684 01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:49,640 foundation set already in the beginning, you know? 1685 01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:55,360 Yeah, yeah. And so, OK, some contentious 1686 01:22:55,360 --> 01:23:00,880 questions are ahead. I'm really curious about this 1687 01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:05,280 and so I would love your thoughts on it. 1688 01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:10,880 So firstly, some people would say that breeders are playing 1689 01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:13,200 God. How do you personally see the 1690 01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:17,200 ethics of decide deciding which dogs breed and how? 1691 01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:19,400 There is, there is a lot of that happening. 1692 01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:24,600 It's definitely a question that's close to my heart because 1693 01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:28,080 of the fact that there's a lot of breeders who play an active 1694 01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:32,080 part in how dogs are being judged in dog shows. 1695 01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:36,320 And they'll often use their own dogs as examples when it comes 1696 01:23:36,320 --> 01:23:38,720 to these things. So a judge will understand that 1697 01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:41,840 that dog bred by that specific person is the right thing to 1698 01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:43,920 look for. And they've now changed the 1699 01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:46,640 standard of that dog, you know, as a result. 1700 01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:49,840 And so now it's become a case where any dog that doesn't look 1701 01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:52,480 like that dog's breed, that kennels breeding is now 1702 01:23:52,480 --> 01:23:55,600 considered bad, which is not the case, you know. 1703 01:23:55,600 --> 01:23:58,400 And that in itself, in my opinion, is playing God's 1704 01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:02,280 because you have now changed the standard based off of what you 1705 01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:05,720 do personally, and you're now setting the standard to the rest 1706 01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:09,080 of the world that unless it comes from my breeding, it can't 1707 01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:13,160 be right because I'm the only one who breeds them right or 1708 01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:15,080 whatever, you know. And there is a lot of that going 1709 01:24:15,080 --> 01:24:19,680 on for all breeds everywhere, not just my breed specifically, 1710 01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:23,720 but a lot of gatekeeping going on too when it comes to these 1711 01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:25,720 breeds. And again, like a lot of 1712 01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:28,000 breeders, I've heard, for example, some breeders have 1713 01:24:28,520 --> 01:24:33,480 contractual terms where you'll buy a stud for your kennel and 1714 01:24:33,480 --> 01:24:35,480 you'll pay an obscene amount of money. 1715 01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:39,240 But even then, they'll say you can only breed with dogs that we 1716 01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:41,320 approve of. You have no freedom to breed 1717 01:24:41,320 --> 01:24:42,840 this dog with your own real will. 1718 01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:46,240 And it's like, if I'm paying a lot of money for this dog, why 1719 01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:48,880 am I not allowed to do whatever I want with it? 1720 01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:53,760 You know, why do I need this high or this term attached to 1721 01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:56,320 what I'm doing? You know, because even with, 1722 01:24:56,320 --> 01:24:58,480 like, the dogs that I have bought, like, yeah, the breeder 1723 01:24:58,480 --> 01:25:01,600 will say to me, I would like it if you consulted me about the 1724 01:25:01,600 --> 01:25:03,640 breedings that you do with the dog that you buy from me. 1725 01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:05,600 But at the end of the day, I don't owe them that. 1726 01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:08,800 You know, I'm just doing it because I'm conscious about 1727 01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:11,160 their image and conscious about the fact that this dog is now 1728 01:25:11,160 --> 01:25:16,360 being represented as that from that kennel, you know, So I'm 1729 01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:18,360 always conscious about that. But at the end, I still have 1730 01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:21,360 freedom to do that, whatever I want to do because it's not my 1731 01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:23,200 dog, you know. But again, people put these 1732 01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:26,320 terms and again, it's so hard to break free from that link 1733 01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:30,200 because they'll breed that dog with the intention of having 1734 01:25:30,200 --> 01:25:35,240 control of the market, not so that something better can come 1735 01:25:35,240 --> 01:25:37,080 out of it, whatever. And so, yeah, there is a lot of 1736 01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:41,680 that government on 100%. And again, like I said before, a 1737 01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:44,680 lot of people that are like high in, in the regard of breeding 1738 01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:46,360 and they've won a lot of awards and things like that. 1739 01:25:46,360 --> 01:25:48,560 They'll be consulted as to what's right and what's wrong 1740 01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:51,880 about the breed and to teach people further down the line. 1741 01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:55,680 And they'll use that as an opportunity to not only get 1742 01:25:56,320 --> 01:25:58,760 better education for these judges that are up, up and 1743 01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:01,960 coming people or whatever, but also as a means to further their 1744 01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:03,400 breeding. Because they'll say, look at my 1745 01:26:03,400 --> 01:26:04,720 dog, this is what you're looking at. 1746 01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:06,760 If it's not like this, then it's wrong. 1747 01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:09,520 That's it. Nothing more for it other than 1748 01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:12,280 that, you know. OK, so there isn't like a 1749 01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:14,560 commonly agreed line in the breeding world. 1750 01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:17,080 It's very individual. People do what they want. 1751 01:26:17,480 --> 01:26:20,040 It would like to be presented that it is, but in my opinion 1752 01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:22,360 there is not much much of it going on at. 1753 01:26:22,360 --> 01:26:25,680 Least pedigree either. No, I don't think so. 1754 01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:30,240 Because the amount of times that I have seen physically a better 1755 01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:34,640 looking dog next to, I don't know, like a breeder that's 1756 01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:36,920 really well known in the community and that dog has not 1757 01:26:36,920 --> 01:26:40,800 even been commended or not even like looked at properly in any 1758 01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:43,560 way. And the judge is awarding purely 1759 01:26:43,560 --> 01:26:46,880 based off the fact that the other breeder has trained them 1760 01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:51,600 and they're looking for their breeding, not for an objective 1761 01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:56,920 perspective, you know? OK, how much do you personally 1762 01:26:56,920 --> 01:27:00,320 think about the welfare of the bitches before you breed them? 1763 01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:06,360 100% I would say because at the end of the day, the last thing 1764 01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:09,840 that I would want is for a difficult breeding to happen in 1765 01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:12,080 terms of giving birth. You know, that that's the last 1766 01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:15,000 thing that I want is for the dog to suffer during the time of 1767 01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:16,960 birth. You know, and again, I think 1768 01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:19,960 that if I ever had a situation where my dog went into 1769 01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:22,440 complications and had AC section, I don't really care if 1770 01:27:22,440 --> 01:27:26,560 it was the 1st or the 2nd or the 3rd, I would end breeding that 1771 01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:29,400 dog because at that point I know that it's likely another 1772 01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:33,000 complication could happen. At that point, I would put my 1773 01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:36,000 motivation for preservation completely aside and focus on 1774 01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:39,720 the welfare of the dog. You know, there's even a lot of 1775 01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:41,640 arguments of people saying that, you know, if you have a vet 1776 01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:43,360 check, you can go for a fourth meeting. 1777 01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:48,120 I think that's a bit wrong personally because of that's 1778 01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:52,240 opinions are so subjective that one vet might say yeah, you're 1779 01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:54,560 good to go and actually could be the end of my dog's life. 1780 01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:59,760 You know, my breeder is really a good example of this too. 1781 01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:05,400 Like every 3rd mating she's had, she's neutered her bitches and 1782 01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:07,360 they've been out of action. After that they live a happy 1783 01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:11,600 retired life and that's it. A lot of breeders, they rehome 1784 01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:15,520 their retired dogs because they have no use to them anymore. 1785 01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:19,640 But again, going back to the old question of what makes a good 1786 01:28:19,640 --> 01:28:22,160 breeder, I would also say look to how many veteran dogs they 1787 01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:25,640 have because it's it's a bit of a red flag in my opinion. 1788 01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:28,840 If you have all these dogs and all of them are just young and 1789 01:28:28,840 --> 01:28:30,200 they're still trying to give you something. 1790 01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:33,120 If you don't have that old 15 year old dog that's fading away 1791 01:28:33,120 --> 01:28:36,480 in the corner, I don't think that actually you're that great 1792 01:28:36,480 --> 01:28:38,240 of a person in terms of breeding and things like that. 1793 01:28:38,240 --> 01:28:41,880 But my Akita breeder who also breeds Chicago's and she's 1794 01:28:41,880 --> 01:28:44,760 recently gotten into Hokkaido, which is another great Japanese 1795 01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:47,200 breed. She has over 40 dogs. 1796 01:28:49,480 --> 01:28:52,600 She has like all these acres of land and she has like all these 1797 01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:55,400 llamas and everything. No llama, sorry, alpacas in her 1798 01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:57,600 house. And her house is just one big 1799 01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:01,040 amazing zoo in my opinion. But the amount of dogs that you 1800 01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:04,440 see in photographs that are just old and they're like proper old, 1801 01:29:04,440 --> 01:29:07,600 you know, And it just makes her heart warm because she's had 1802 01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:09,840 them until the day they die, you know, and. 1803 01:29:10,080 --> 01:29:13,280 She's bred all of them. Pretty much, yeah, a lot of 1804 01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:15,480 them. So she ended up adopting a lot 1805 01:29:15,480 --> 01:29:17,080 of them during the Ukraine invasion. 1806 01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:21,760 So she had a lot of blind old Akitas being in the rescue 1807 01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:24,760 shelters, and she adopted quite a few of them as a result. 1808 01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:28,800 And even to this day, she'll find an excuse to rescue a dog. 1809 01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:32,280 She always has some sort of rescue or some sort of disabled 1810 01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:36,240 dog living in her house. So it's great to see that part 1811 01:29:36,240 --> 01:29:40,840 of her, too. But yeah, 100%, I care. 1812 01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:42,800 It's it's almost really, really deep in my heart. 1813 01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:45,920 And if it's a case where it could end my dog's life, I would 1814 01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:48,240 never want to do it or even harm in any way. 1815 01:29:48,240 --> 01:29:49,800 Even if the dog's in pain, I won't do it. 1816 01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:51,600 Like my sheba lived there in January. 1817 01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:54,040 If she suffers in any way, that's it. 1818 01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:56,760 I'm not going to do it again. You know it's not worth it. 1819 01:29:57,800 --> 01:30:02,280 I'm interested to know how they are being bred as in like 1820 01:30:02,280 --> 01:30:06,000 physically do they do they physically get bred or is it 1821 01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:10,640 through IVF or like what what is what is the situation because I 1822 01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:14,560 recently read. Sorry, what were you going to 1823 01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:18,560 say? I recently read a book that was 1824 01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:21,640 written I think in the 80s and it was about dog training and 1825 01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:24,400 specifically they were writing about breeding and they were 1826 01:30:24,400 --> 01:30:29,080 saying once you've found a stud for your bitch, take your bitch 1827 01:30:29,080 --> 01:30:32,880 there and see if she's interested in the stud. 1828 01:30:33,080 --> 01:30:38,240 If not, take her back home and into her comfortable environment 1829 01:30:38,240 --> 01:30:42,160 and have the stud come to her. I, I listened to that and I 1830 01:30:42,160 --> 01:30:44,800 thought to myself, that doesn't happen anymore. 1831 01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:48,440 The, the bitch doesn't have a say at all anymore. 1832 01:30:48,440 --> 01:30:51,200 So, so that really upset me actually, because I realised 1833 01:30:51,200 --> 01:30:54,720 that, OK, that's that that standard has dropped to such a 1834 01:30:54,720 --> 01:30:59,480 degree that that that the dog can't decide at all what is 1835 01:30:59,480 --> 01:31:02,520 suitable 100. Percent I do think that with 1836 01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:04,880 regards to like how they're being bred, things have become a 1837 01:31:04,880 --> 01:31:07,200 bit different in the sense to like I mean you can even find 1838 01:31:07,200 --> 01:31:09,880 online videos where like they're forcing the main thing to 1839 01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:12,080 happen. You know, I've seen. 1840 01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:14,880 Yeah. Similar to humans, the male 1841 01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:16,960 doesn't experience much pain in this process. 1842 01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:20,360 It's mainly painful for the female and so obviously that's a 1843 01:31:20,360 --> 01:31:25,800 bit sad, but I have never put my dogs in a situation where 1844 01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:32,560 they're invited into that sort of altercation with the idea 1845 01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:34,080 that oh, you have to breed kind of thing. 1846 01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:37,560 Oftentimes when a female is in season, you will often see the 1847 01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:40,480 female almost try to like create this pre mating ritual where 1848 01:31:40,480 --> 01:31:43,000 like they kind of almost annoy them into doing it, although 1849 01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:45,600 they keep persisting. Like come on, I'm ready, you're 1850 01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:48,320 ready, let's go kind of thing. You know, you do see that quite 1851 01:31:48,320 --> 01:31:49,760 a lot. You know, like my Chicago, for 1852 01:31:49,760 --> 01:31:53,120 example. She loves my male Akita, and 1853 01:31:53,200 --> 01:31:55,920 she's ridiculously flirtatious with him in general. 1854 01:31:56,440 --> 01:31:58,880 You know, she'll lick his face and get really excited when he 1855 01:31:58,880 --> 01:32:01,760 comes through the door and whatnot, but when she's in 1856 01:32:01,760 --> 01:32:04,280 season, he will be sleeping on the sofa and she'll literally 1857 01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:08,280 ram him with her butt, hoping that he gets a whiff of whatever 1858 01:32:08,400 --> 01:32:12,160 is going on between her legs. Obviously because they're 1859 01:32:12,160 --> 01:32:15,440 different breeds, I keep them separate throughout the time and 1860 01:32:15,440 --> 01:32:19,200 I always put a cover around the penis of the dog to make sure 1861 01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:22,040 nothing will happen when it's a cross breed situation. 1862 01:32:22,040 --> 01:32:26,440 So if a different breed is in season and my male is around, I 1863 01:32:26,440 --> 01:32:29,600 will cover him and I'll also put a diaper in the dog when it's 1864 01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:32,120 indoors and then when it's outside I'll take it off so they 1865 01:32:32,120 --> 01:32:33,680 can clean themselves up and everything. 1866 01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:37,320 Because the males, they go crazy when the blood drips on the 1867 01:32:37,320 --> 01:32:39,440 floor and stuff like that, all the discharge comes out. 1868 01:32:40,200 --> 01:32:41,720 It becomes a bit difficult to clean too. 1869 01:32:41,720 --> 01:32:43,400 So diapering them in that moment is better. 1870 01:32:43,400 --> 01:32:47,240 But I, I still do agree with the old school method of like, see 1871 01:32:47,240 --> 01:32:52,000 if they get on and like each other as opposed to forcing it 1872 01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:54,920 to happen because a lot of breeders travel to other 1873 01:32:54,920 --> 01:32:58,640 breeders to meet with a stud and hope to get that done, you know, 1874 01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:02,200 and sometimes it doesn't happen, you know, sometimes the male's 1875 01:33:02,200 --> 01:33:05,440 fully in season right at the end with their most potent, a male 1876 01:33:05,440 --> 01:33:09,080 will try to have a sniff and she'll just snap and get 1877 01:33:09,080 --> 01:33:11,680 aggressive. OK, so you, you're not into him. 1878 01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:15,640 Cool, no problem. You know, I have the same view 1879 01:33:16,240 --> 01:33:19,320 as if I had a daughter and a guy was being a bit too touchy 1880 01:33:19,320 --> 01:33:20,760 feeling with her. I would say, hey, stop. 1881 01:33:20,920 --> 01:33:23,160 You know she doesn't want to so. Absolutely. 1882 01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:28,200 But surely you've seen people mating with dogs using forceful 1883 01:33:28,200 --> 01:33:30,080 methods? What what happens in those 1884 01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:32,200 moments? Why is that normalise? 1885 01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:35,920 The thing is, is that you there's nothing to gain now out 1886 01:33:35,920 --> 01:33:39,360 of it other than one time like value, if that makes sense, 1887 01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:42,800 because you're not going to breed that dog again once that 1888 01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:45,880 once that happens, you know, if you force a mating to happen, 1889 01:33:46,360 --> 01:33:47,880 you have now traumatised that dog. 1890 01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:50,600 That dog is also in pain now because of what's happened, not 1891 01:33:50,600 --> 01:33:52,480 just in physically, but emotionally. 1892 01:33:52,480 --> 01:33:54,520 And again, people don't understand this as much or they 1893 01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:58,040 don't want to talk about it as much, whatever the situation is. 1894 01:33:58,040 --> 01:34:02,920 But when you put a dog through that, any time it's in season, 1895 01:34:02,920 --> 01:34:05,120 it's just going to get traumatised all over again and 1896 01:34:05,120 --> 01:34:07,640 it's going to seek out more protection, more shelter. 1897 01:34:07,840 --> 01:34:10,600 And any dog that comes there, it instantly gets aggressive as a 1898 01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:14,240 result of it because even if a female wanted to have a sniff 1899 01:34:14,480 --> 01:34:17,000 because it feels awful, it smells different. 1900 01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:20,320 That dog is most likely going to hurt that dog in a really, 1901 01:34:20,320 --> 01:34:23,680 really bad way because the last time she was in season, she got 1902 01:34:23,680 --> 01:34:26,480 raped, you know, and, and that's the reality of it. 1903 01:34:26,480 --> 01:34:29,000 And people don't look at it from the same perspective. 1904 01:34:29,000 --> 01:34:34,400 But for me, it has no difference as opposed to my views on like 1905 01:34:34,400 --> 01:34:37,440 when women get raped in general. Like I still think that it's 1906 01:34:37,440 --> 01:34:39,240 wrong and I think that it's wrong for dogs too. 1907 01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:41,600 It's no different, you know, just because they can't 1908 01:34:41,600 --> 01:34:44,040 communicate the way that we do as humans together. 1909 01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:48,200 The law shouldn't be any different with regards to things 1910 01:34:48,200 --> 01:34:50,480 like this. But again, so important to talk 1911 01:34:50,480 --> 01:34:52,240 about and educate people on these things. 1912 01:34:52,240 --> 01:34:55,760 And again, which is why I prefer the Lithuanian system to 1913 01:34:55,760 --> 01:34:57,720 breeding because they talk to you about this stuff 1914 01:34:57,720 --> 01:34:59,760 specifically too. And again, that's a really big 1915 01:34:59,760 --> 01:35:03,720 part of the modules that you go through, but it's not so much in 1916 01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:08,160 the UK and it doesn't happen often enough that we sit down 1917 01:35:08,160 --> 01:35:10,040 and we talk about these conversations as much when it 1918 01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:11,840 comes to how they're being bred, as you say. 1919 01:35:12,800 --> 01:35:15,720 Yeah, because it's just, it seems so normalised. 1920 01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:19,720 I was doing research for this episode and I found a video on 1921 01:35:19,720 --> 01:35:23,440 YouTube and I was just typing in Breeding Basics one O 1, you 1922 01:35:23,440 --> 01:35:27,600 know, and and they were breeding Frenchies on a table in the 1923 01:35:27,600 --> 01:35:31,600 middle of like an exhibition centre, music blaring in the 1924 01:35:31,600 --> 01:35:34,480 background. Basically those women with a 1925 01:35:34,480 --> 01:35:38,880 glove, you know, the, the, the dog got his whiff of the, the, 1926 01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:43,320 the bitch got aroused. She then used her own hands to 1927 01:35:43,320 --> 01:35:48,080 try and, you know, extract the, the the sperm in a little cup, 1928 01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:51,560 then took a needle and pulled out the the sperm and then 1929 01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:55,720 someone else held held the held the dog's legs up the female. 1930 01:35:55,720 --> 01:35:57,240 Yeah, they got a bish, bash, Bosh. 1931 01:35:57,240 --> 01:35:58,560 Your dog's pregnant now. That's it. 1932 01:35:58,680 --> 01:36:02,280 You know, that's just. I was like how this should be 1933 01:36:02,280 --> 01:36:06,680 illegal, this should be illegal, How is this even acceptable on 1934 01:36:06,680 --> 01:36:08,800 any? You'll definitely be on the 1935 01:36:08,800 --> 01:36:10,520 wrong, you'll definitely be on the wrong side of the law if 1936 01:36:10,520 --> 01:36:12,880 that happened here. Yeah, yeah, 100%. 1937 01:36:12,880 --> 01:36:17,800 And the other thing is too is that like breeding is not like 1938 01:36:17,800 --> 01:36:20,520 again, I don't know if it's just the UK or if other people or 1939 01:36:20,520 --> 01:36:22,600 other countries are experiencing the same thing to you, but I've 1940 01:36:22,600 --> 01:36:26,000 seen a lot of it in the UK. Breeding is becoming more and 1941 01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:28,080 more and seen more and more as like the sting that you could 1942 01:36:28,080 --> 01:36:30,560 just do to make money quick and you can do from home, very low 1943 01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:32,480 effort. Bish bash Bosh. 1944 01:36:32,520 --> 01:36:34,520 Like I said before, a pregnant dog, that's it. 1945 01:36:34,520 --> 01:36:38,320 You know, I'll feed it some cheap whatever from little until 1946 01:36:38,320 --> 01:36:39,840 people pick it up and then that's it. 1947 01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:41,000 You know, you can go home with it. 1948 01:36:41,000 --> 01:36:43,440 And then that's how you get all these dogs that have so many 1949 01:36:43,440 --> 01:36:46,840 issues because but the amount of issues that people have that are 1950 01:36:46,840 --> 01:36:50,840 just caused from bad breeding as opposed to the owners of being 1951 01:36:50,840 --> 01:36:54,160 its fault so high. And it's so harsh to tell 1952 01:36:54,160 --> 01:36:58,480 people, no matter what you did for this dog's upbringing, you 1953 01:36:58,480 --> 01:37:00,360 couldn't have changed it. It's just genetics. 1954 01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:03,400 It's just bad genes, bad raising environment. 1955 01:37:03,400 --> 01:37:05,840 The breeder didn't do a good job raising him and that's it. 1956 01:37:08,480 --> 01:37:10,160 I would love to go into that with you. 1957 01:37:10,160 --> 01:37:13,440 But before I do that, I wanted to talk about fertility clinics 1958 01:37:13,440 --> 01:37:18,840 because my impression of a fertility clinic for a human is, 1959 01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:21,800 you know, you go there because you're having some challenges 1960 01:37:21,800 --> 01:37:24,200 and you need some help. But I can't imagine that any 1961 01:37:24,200 --> 01:37:27,240 dogs ever going to go knock on a door and say, excuse me, I'm 1962 01:37:27,240 --> 01:37:29,440 trying to conceive. Can you help me, please? 1963 01:37:29,960 --> 01:37:33,560 I just, I just think it's really ridiculous this that this, this 1964 01:37:33,560 --> 01:37:37,880 is, it sounds so clinical. It sounds so like we're doctors. 1965 01:37:37,880 --> 01:37:40,360 We're here to help you. It's so dark. 1966 01:37:41,000 --> 01:37:44,520 The thing is, is that I'm so I have like really mixed views 1967 01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:47,560 when it comes to stuff like that about like the ethics of it, 1968 01:37:47,560 --> 01:37:50,840 whether it's right or wrong. So there's one side of it where 1969 01:37:50,840 --> 01:37:54,160 it's like dog cloning, for example, as a really recent 1970 01:37:54,160 --> 01:37:56,800 topic that has come into light ever since they made those 1971 01:37:56,800 --> 01:37:58,200 extinct wolves come back to life. 1972 01:37:58,840 --> 01:38:01,160 I don't know if you've seen that on the news at any point, but 1973 01:38:01,160 --> 01:38:03,760 yeah, they did that. That was like a really rare dire 1974 01:38:03,760 --> 01:38:07,320 wolf breed that they brought back through fertility clinics 1975 01:38:07,320 --> 01:38:10,720 and stuff like that. But one side of it is like, if 1976 01:38:10,720 --> 01:38:15,120 you have a dog that's like a male, for example, and this, 1977 01:38:15,120 --> 01:38:18,120 like, male specifically, in my opinion, not females, that's a 1978 01:38:18,120 --> 01:38:20,560 really great example of the breed, has a great temperament, 1979 01:38:20,560 --> 01:38:24,720 has a great body shape. And you've bred this dog and for 1980 01:38:24,720 --> 01:38:26,920 some reason you haven't been able to achieve something that 1981 01:38:26,920 --> 01:38:29,600 looks similar or better from breeding it. 1982 01:38:30,160 --> 01:38:33,600 Should you clone that dog? You know, my, my opinion, Yeah. 1983 01:38:34,520 --> 01:38:37,600 If you're doing it to kind of bring back the loss of a dog 1984 01:38:37,600 --> 01:38:40,120 that you had, whatever, I don't think that that's the case. 1985 01:38:40,120 --> 01:38:42,040 You know that I don't think you're going to cure it in any 1986 01:38:42,040 --> 01:38:44,880 way by doing that. But in terms of like 1987 01:38:45,160 --> 01:38:49,360 preservation, if that dog is a good example of the breed, yeah, 1988 01:38:49,880 --> 01:38:54,400 I think there's an argument to be made as to if you should make 1989 01:38:54,400 --> 01:38:56,160 the same dog again kind of thing. 1990 01:38:57,000 --> 01:38:58,960 I think Barbra Streisand did that. 1991 01:38:59,760 --> 01:39:03,800 Yeah, I think, I think there was a case about that before that I 1992 01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:05,360 read from like ages ago. But yeah. 1993 01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:10,960 But when it comes to bitches having issues with fertility and 1994 01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:15,480 then using science to boost the ability of that dog becoming 1995 01:39:15,480 --> 01:39:19,560 fertile and pregnant later on, if it's already having issues 1996 01:39:19,800 --> 01:39:23,720 getting pregnant, what issues will follow after? 1997 01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:27,880 Because if your dog is not able to get pregnant, then clearly it 1998 01:39:27,880 --> 01:39:31,440 has some hormonal issues because the sperm is not reaching the 1999 01:39:31,440 --> 01:39:32,760 egg. The egg is not hatching the way 2000 01:39:32,760 --> 01:39:35,120 it should do. Scientifically, things aren't 2001 01:39:35,120 --> 01:39:38,720 happening the way it should be. So if I then scientifically 2002 01:39:38,720 --> 01:39:42,000 boost that dog to become pregnant, will there be a chance 2003 01:39:42,000 --> 01:39:43,480 that it's not going to produce milk? 2004 01:39:43,680 --> 01:39:46,520 Yes. If it does produce milk, will it 2005 01:39:46,520 --> 01:39:49,960 have the exact amount of nutrients required to make that 2006 01:39:49,960 --> 01:39:53,040 dog healthy for the bones to fuse, for it to grow up, 2007 01:39:53,040 --> 01:39:54,480 whatever. Yes, it would. 2008 01:39:54,840 --> 01:39:58,560 You know, will I spend a lot of money getting supplements for 2009 01:39:58,560 --> 01:40:01,120 the puppies and trying to make sure they get other stuff? 2010 01:40:01,440 --> 01:40:03,240 Yeah. Will it work? 2011 01:40:03,240 --> 01:40:06,640 Maybe because again, it's also about the nutrients being 2012 01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:09,760 absorbed in the body as well as me giving that to the puppies, 2013 01:40:10,240 --> 01:40:13,120 the risks involved from doing something like that. 2014 01:40:13,120 --> 01:40:16,800 For me, it's not worth it. You know, other people can try. 2015 01:40:17,480 --> 01:40:19,360 It's up to them. I don't have control over 2016 01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:21,720 people's actions. But for me specifically. 2017 01:40:23,160 --> 01:40:26,000 Boosting the chance of a female that already can't get pregnant 2018 01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:28,640 and almost trying to have this thing with them where you're 2019 01:40:28,640 --> 01:40:31,280 trying to kind of cheat nature and force it to happen. 2020 01:40:31,280 --> 01:40:35,480 Regardless, there's no point. You know if your dog was going 2021 01:40:35,480 --> 01:40:36,680 to get pregnant, it would have done. 2022 01:40:36,920 --> 01:40:39,160 What exactly happens in a fertility clinic? 2023 01:40:40,200 --> 01:40:44,240 So when it comes to that sort of stuff, I, I believe there's like 2024 01:40:44,800 --> 01:40:47,600 a measure, like a different measure of ways you can go about 2025 01:40:47,600 --> 01:40:50,880 doing it really. So you can give, I think 2026 01:40:50,880 --> 01:40:54,960 medication that helps with like fertilisation of like the eggs 2027 01:40:54,960 --> 01:40:58,880 to increase so that the dog ends up producing more eggs to 2028 01:40:58,880 --> 01:41:02,720 hopefully be captured by a sperm and and so on and go for the 2029 01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:06,800 whole process of being pregnant. You can also do artificial 2030 01:41:06,800 --> 01:41:09,000 insemination. So you get the dog sperm and 2031 01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:13,720 inject and that happens too. Again, if the dog's not able to, 2032 01:41:13,720 --> 01:41:17,400 it's not increasing the odds of it happening, but because it's 2033 01:41:17,400 --> 01:41:20,960 like directly going in for that route and not like naturally, 2034 01:41:20,960 --> 01:41:23,040 they think that it's going to boost the chance of doing it. 2035 01:41:23,280 --> 01:41:26,080 There are several studies saying that it does increase the chance 2036 01:41:26,080 --> 01:41:29,200 of those pregnancy. Others are saying that it's not 2037 01:41:29,200 --> 01:41:32,120 doing much. Again, you'd have to weigh it up 2038 01:41:32,240 --> 01:41:34,200 and make your own decision because there's too many 2039 01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:37,320 controversial opinions about it. From my personal opinion, I 2040 01:41:37,320 --> 01:41:41,480 don't think it does a lot more, but that's what happens in those 2041 01:41:41,480 --> 01:41:42,720 clinics. Most of the time it's even 2042 01:41:42,720 --> 01:41:46,080 medication to boost the fertility of the dog and for it 2043 01:41:46,080 --> 01:41:51,680 to create more eggs for it to happen on a more higher level or 2044 01:41:51,680 --> 01:41:54,200 they do dissemination that you were talking about from before. 2045 01:41:54,880 --> 01:41:58,080 So basically dogs go there to be forced. 2046 01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:07,000 Yeah, my blood is boiling, Right. 2047 01:42:07,040 --> 01:42:12,840 OK, so shall we quickly just move on? 2048 01:42:14,760 --> 01:42:18,480 It's so crazy that these establishments are even able to, 2049 01:42:19,360 --> 01:42:22,480 you know, conduct business. And I know that many of them 2050 01:42:22,480 --> 01:42:26,200 aren't even actual established, you know, like it's, it's not 2051 01:42:26,200 --> 01:42:27,680 like you could go down the street. 2052 01:42:27,960 --> 01:42:30,880 It's someone's backyard. Some of some of them are just 2053 01:42:30,880 --> 01:42:33,720 people who have like little mobile sheds in the back of 2054 01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:36,200 their yard and they've just bought a few £1000 worth of 2055 01:42:36,200 --> 01:42:39,560 equipment and they're just doing it fashion hand and no one knows 2056 01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:42,000 about it, you know, So a lot of them are actually like that. 2057 01:42:42,680 --> 01:42:45,200 Have you met? Have you met backyard breeders? 2058 01:42:46,040 --> 01:42:50,640 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've, I've had one interaction 2059 01:42:50,640 --> 01:42:53,680 with a guy who had the Japanese cross American Akita who 2060 01:42:53,680 --> 01:42:57,040 desperately wanted to breed his male with my female Japanese 2061 01:42:57,040 --> 01:43:01,200 Akita because he claimed that his dog was a genius and that it 2062 01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:05,040 would be, you know, a disgrace or like a waste of dog for him 2063 01:43:05,040 --> 01:43:08,480 to not breed his dog, whatever. He thought that, you know, he 2064 01:43:08,480 --> 01:43:11,680 was denying the world of like a great dog if he didn't breed his 2065 01:43:11,680 --> 01:43:15,160 dog, you know, almost as if it was like, I don't know, Hitler 2066 01:43:15,160 --> 01:43:17,800 super race where like his dog was like the only one that was 2067 01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:19,480 worthy of breeding kind of thing. 2068 01:43:19,520 --> 01:43:22,080 And yeah, we had that character in our lives. 2069 01:43:22,720 --> 01:43:24,400 I met the Frenchie. Breeder who was. 2070 01:43:24,400 --> 01:43:28,600 Breeding albino Frenchies, selling them for 8500 each. 2071 01:43:30,240 --> 01:43:32,120 And he was saying like, oh, you know, all of them have skin 2072 01:43:32,120 --> 01:43:34,400 problems, but you know, Frenchies have skin problems 2073 01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:36,120 regardless. It's not because mine are all by 2074 01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:37,960 now. And The thing is, is that it 2075 01:43:37,960 --> 01:43:40,040 definitely is because they're all by now. 2076 01:43:40,040 --> 01:43:42,600 It's not because of the fact that they have the general 2077 01:43:42,600 --> 01:43:45,360 issues that people with Frenchies face or whatever it is 2078 01:43:45,360 --> 01:43:49,360 because they're all by now. And I've met an Excel bully 2079 01:43:49,360 --> 01:43:52,800 breeder too, before the ban. So yeah. 2080 01:43:53,680 --> 01:43:57,200 So with those people, I mean, nobody wants to be, for lack of 2081 01:43:57,200 --> 01:43:59,520 a better word, a snitch. But like, don't you feel 2082 01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:03,080 compelled to do something? I have done already. 2083 01:44:03,320 --> 01:44:09,000 When I met the friendship breeder, I already told the dog 2084 01:44:09,000 --> 01:44:13,680 warden in the area that there was unregistered dogs someone 2085 01:44:13,680 --> 01:44:15,160 was breeding more than three times a year. 2086 01:44:15,160 --> 01:44:18,000 Because that's like the legal requirement to register yourself 2087 01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:20,800 to the council as a breeder and register your dogs if you have 2088 01:44:20,800 --> 01:44:23,640 three or three or more litters in a year. 2089 01:44:23,640 --> 01:44:25,240 And he, he did that continuously. 2090 01:44:25,240 --> 01:44:27,400 So yeah, I did report him for the same thing. 2091 01:44:28,160 --> 01:44:31,520 And the XL Bully one, I didn't even need to because in, in the 2092 01:44:31,520 --> 01:44:34,920 process of doing it, the ban came and they seized his dogs 2093 01:44:34,920 --> 01:44:37,520 anyways, because turns out he was involved in other illegal 2094 01:44:37,520 --> 01:44:40,400 activities. So the police came and took, 2095 01:44:40,440 --> 01:44:42,960 took his dogs basically. And that was kind of the end of 2096 01:44:42,960 --> 01:44:45,080 it. So I, I didn't, didn't even need 2097 01:44:45,080 --> 01:44:46,920 to. I know obviously no one wants to 2098 01:44:46,920 --> 01:44:49,280 be compared to a snitch or whatever, but in, in this case, 2099 01:44:49,280 --> 01:44:52,840 I don't really feel the guilt of snitching in any way when it 2100 01:44:52,840 --> 01:44:54,520 comes to that stuff. Because at the end of the day, 2101 01:44:56,080 --> 01:44:59,440 even if he was charging like 200 lbs for an albiner Frenchie, 2102 01:44:59,440 --> 01:45:01,320 it's still wrong. You know, like these dogs 2103 01:45:01,320 --> 01:45:03,000 shouldn't exist. They, they have all these health 2104 01:45:03,120 --> 01:45:07,080 problems and it's painful for them to even be alive, let alone 2105 01:45:08,320 --> 01:45:09,880 the skin problems that have and everything. 2106 01:45:09,880 --> 01:45:12,440 And like the snouts that they have were pretty much flat. 2107 01:45:12,960 --> 01:45:16,040 You know, you the dog, the dog takes one step and it's already, 2108 01:45:16,040 --> 01:45:21,160 you know, fighting for its life. This is no point of the dog even 2109 01:45:21,160 --> 01:45:24,080 live. No, it's do you know, it's so 2110 01:45:24,080 --> 01:45:26,800 sad actually, because I only recently learned, well recently, 2111 01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:30,080 like a year ago, that that brachycephalic dogs, the flat 2112 01:45:30,080 --> 01:45:32,640 faced dogs, the sound that they make. 2113 01:45:32,640 --> 01:45:35,080 So like the, you know, like the. Yeah, the. 2114 01:45:35,760 --> 01:45:38,720 Giggy. Breathing that, I've always 2115 01:45:38,720 --> 01:45:41,400 thought that's just what they sound like, but actually that is 2116 01:45:41,400 --> 01:45:46,120 them struggling to breathe like them breathing is abnormal as a 2117 01:45:46,120 --> 01:45:49,080 breed. I met one Hungarian. 2118 01:45:49,400 --> 01:45:52,000 I met one Hungarian lady who had like a retro Prague and like 2119 01:45:52,000 --> 01:45:54,680 that was the first time in my life ever I saw a pug that 2120 01:45:54,680 --> 01:45:58,880 actually had a nose and she was saying that like she can walk 2121 01:45:58,880 --> 01:46:02,160 him for 3-4 hours, not like no problem. 2122 01:46:02,200 --> 01:46:05,160 And The thing is like I've been a dog Walker before and I've, 2123 01:46:05,200 --> 01:46:09,280 I've had times where a 10 minute walk is close to killing a 2124 01:46:09,280 --> 01:46:12,600 Frenchie or like a pug because it just can't breathe anymore, 2125 01:46:12,680 --> 01:46:15,040 you know, and I've had to carry it and continue to walk like 2126 01:46:15,040 --> 01:46:16,640 that. You know it's happened. 2127 01:46:16,720 --> 01:46:19,480 Yeah, but people don't know. They just don't know what 2128 01:46:19,480 --> 01:46:20,840 they're buying. It's crazy. 2129 01:46:20,840 --> 01:46:23,920 And they're fueling this. People in the UK have normalised 2130 01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:27,160 that, like people don't think that a pug having a flat nose or 2131 01:46:27,160 --> 01:46:29,120 a Frenchie having a flat is a bad thing. 2132 01:46:29,120 --> 01:46:32,040 Like people don't know that if you look at photos from like 2133 01:46:32,040 --> 01:46:35,720 50-60, seventy years before this breed, it didn't look like that. 2134 01:46:36,800 --> 01:46:39,360 You know, we've we've made it that way to fit this aesthetic 2135 01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:41,800 in this idea. And again, like all the I call 2136 01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:45,080 them live, love, laugh people. I don't know what the term is 2137 01:46:45,080 --> 01:46:48,480 exactly for that kind of person, but it's all these influencer 2138 01:46:48,480 --> 01:46:51,040 types and the people that I don't know, their idea of a 2139 01:46:51,040 --> 01:46:54,880 holiday is, I don't know, some sort of kiss FM package holiday 2140 01:46:54,880 --> 01:46:56,440 to IB for that kind of type of person. 2141 01:46:56,440 --> 01:46:58,680 It's all these people that buy like the blue Frenchies or like 2142 01:46:58,680 --> 01:47:01,240 the blue dash out and silver pit bulls, whatever, like all these 2143 01:47:02,160 --> 01:47:04,320 designer type breeds that have all these health problems and 2144 01:47:04,320 --> 01:47:07,440 they have no idea that OK, yeah, you've spent 10,000 getting this 2145 01:47:07,440 --> 01:47:12,080 dog, but also contributing to this idea that dogs are in pain 2146 01:47:12,080 --> 01:47:13,840 constantly and that's that's it, you know? 2147 01:47:15,160 --> 01:47:17,520 Yeah. Oh God, it's so tragic if you 2148 01:47:17,520 --> 01:47:21,080 really think about it from, from the way that they are conceived 2149 01:47:21,240 --> 01:47:25,840 or bred, the way that they conceive, the allergies, the 2150 01:47:25,840 --> 01:47:29,000 breathing. Oh gosh. 2151 01:47:29,000 --> 01:47:32,440 It's just, I just, I find it really difficult or challenging 2152 01:47:32,440 --> 01:47:35,120 to wrap my head around how this could sit. 2153 01:47:36,080 --> 01:47:39,440 Like what part of yourself do you switch off to enable that 2154 01:47:39,440 --> 01:47:41,920 problem knowing you know what I mean? 2155 01:47:41,920 --> 01:47:45,120 Like how do how do breeders reconcile? 2156 01:47:45,240 --> 01:47:48,840 The The thing is, is that you're never going to be able to shut 2157 01:47:48,840 --> 01:47:52,160 down the problem fully, if that makes sense, because there's 2158 01:47:52,160 --> 01:47:54,880 just too many people taking it up and more understanding. 2159 01:47:54,880 --> 01:47:58,200 And the other problem too, is that I'm really against this, by 2160 01:47:58,200 --> 01:48:02,600 the way, but a lot of old school breeders are like older in age 2161 01:48:03,040 --> 01:48:05,800 specifically. They gate keep so much and 2162 01:48:05,800 --> 01:48:08,800 they're a bit harsh. And when I say harsh, it's 2163 01:48:08,800 --> 01:48:11,800 hidden by passion of the breed and the need to protect their 2164 01:48:11,800 --> 01:48:14,520 breed and things like this. But they're so harsh to these 2165 01:48:14,520 --> 01:48:17,080 people when they say I want to breed in the future and 2166 01:48:17,400 --> 01:48:21,080 instantly throw all these words like, oh, you know, you've got 2167 01:48:21,080 --> 01:48:23,440 to walk before you even run and you know, you should not even be 2168 01:48:23,440 --> 01:48:24,560 thinking about that. Whatever. 2169 01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:27,640 And they're they're again, the intention is to protect the 2170 01:48:27,640 --> 01:48:30,800 breed and make sure that the wrong people don't breed, not to 2171 01:48:30,880 --> 01:48:33,320 throw people off the sands. But if you don't have that 2172 01:48:33,320 --> 01:48:36,240 character where you take it on as like, oh, it's just an old 2173 01:48:36,240 --> 01:48:38,200 person saying something, It's not really like a big deal. 2174 01:48:38,200 --> 01:48:39,640 I'm not going to take it to heart kind of thing. 2175 01:48:40,280 --> 01:48:42,360 You will be thrown away from that good community. 2176 01:48:42,360 --> 01:48:45,560 You'll be less likely to be involved in that good community 2177 01:48:45,560 --> 01:48:47,960 necessarily. And you'll fall into the arms of 2178 01:48:47,960 --> 01:48:49,920 a backyard burrito just because they were friendly to you. 2179 01:48:50,320 --> 01:48:52,760 You know it'll happen and you'll think that those people are 2180 01:48:52,760 --> 01:48:55,160 better or a better community to exist. 2181 01:48:55,160 --> 01:48:58,040 Because they treat. You better exactly exactly. 2182 01:48:58,280 --> 01:49:01,040 So I mean like 1 experience I can say is personally that I've 2183 01:49:01,040 --> 01:49:05,320 had myself was my male Akito was like maybe seven months old and 2184 01:49:05,320 --> 01:49:08,360 he was at that teenage gangly phase where he was just all legs 2185 01:49:08,360 --> 01:49:10,600 and no body. You know, he looks pretty ugly. 2186 01:49:10,600 --> 01:49:13,600 And I had no idea because I just wanted to show my dog and that 2187 01:49:13,600 --> 01:49:15,800 was it. I had a breeder come to me and 2188 01:49:15,800 --> 01:49:18,720 say, you might want to quit with him because he's very ugly. 2189 01:49:20,320 --> 01:49:23,200 And I was like, horrified. I was like, what the hell? 2190 01:49:23,800 --> 01:49:26,480 I even had tears coming down my eyes because I was like, did my 2191 01:49:26,480 --> 01:49:28,240 breeder lie to me? Because she said that it was a 2192 01:49:28,240 --> 01:49:30,400 really good show dog. Like, what the hell is going on? 2193 01:49:30,400 --> 01:49:33,440 And I remember I walked into the ring with, like, tears in my 2194 01:49:33,440 --> 01:49:35,760 eyes. And the judge was saying, why 2195 01:49:35,760 --> 01:49:37,560 are you crying? And I thought to myself, because 2196 01:49:37,560 --> 01:49:40,200 he's so ugly apparently. And he was like, oh, you don't 2197 01:49:40,200 --> 01:49:41,240 know that. He hasn't even finished 2198 01:49:41,240 --> 01:49:42,840 developing yet. You don't know what the finished 2199 01:49:42,840 --> 01:49:45,600 products going to look like. You know, for me, he looks like 2200 01:49:45,600 --> 01:49:47,280 a teenager. He looks fine. 2201 01:49:47,440 --> 01:49:49,960 Don't worry about it. And luckily I was the only 2202 01:49:49,960 --> 01:49:53,400 person in the ring, so he gave me a lot of time to teach me how 2203 01:49:53,400 --> 01:49:56,600 to show my dog and how to run with him and how to make him 2204 01:49:56,600 --> 01:49:59,360 look better and stuff like that. And I actually ended up going to 2205 01:49:59,360 --> 01:50:02,320 the final of that show and I was on TV and everything, which was 2206 01:50:02,320 --> 01:50:04,680 cool. But in that moment I realised 2207 01:50:04,680 --> 01:50:08,200 that the whole community is just opinions. 2208 01:50:08,680 --> 01:50:12,760 They take the standard and then they bend the standard to their 2209 01:50:12,760 --> 01:50:16,000 own opinion, to whatever fits their breeding, and then they 2210 01:50:16,000 --> 01:50:18,080 tell you different based upon what they think. 2211 01:50:19,360 --> 01:50:21,680 So that's why it's really difficult to find a good dog or 2212 01:50:21,680 --> 01:50:24,560 a bad dog, because one person's idea of a good dog is the next 2213 01:50:24,560 --> 01:50:26,200 person's idea of a complete nightmare. 2214 01:50:26,280 --> 01:50:29,280 So no one's looking at the variable standard. 2215 01:50:30,320 --> 01:50:31,640 I understand, yeah. So. 2216 01:50:31,680 --> 01:50:34,680 So why do these shows happen? What is the actual purpose? 2217 01:50:34,880 --> 01:50:39,560 The, the main idea is, is to exhibit good examples of the 2218 01:50:39,560 --> 01:50:41,280 breed and it's always been about that. 2219 01:50:41,280 --> 01:50:45,320 And I still think to this say it is mainly about that. 2220 01:50:45,320 --> 01:50:47,640 But the problem is, is that like these days, there's a lot of 2221 01:50:47,640 --> 01:50:49,240 corruption in these, in these dog shows. 2222 01:50:49,280 --> 01:50:52,480 You know, again, I'm not naming any names or accusing anyone or 2223 01:50:52,480 --> 01:50:56,520 anything right now. But you see in my UK dog shows, 2224 01:50:56,520 --> 01:51:00,480 as well as like other countries dog shows, it's the same faces 2225 01:51:00,480 --> 01:51:03,840 winning the dog shows. And people always throw these 2226 01:51:03,840 --> 01:51:06,880 questions around where it's like, are judges picking winners 2227 01:51:06,880 --> 01:51:08,440 based off of who's holding the dog? 2228 01:51:08,520 --> 01:51:11,840 Or is it actually the dog who's winning these positions? 2229 01:51:12,400 --> 01:51:14,560 Because it comes into question when you start seeing the same, 2230 01:51:14,560 --> 01:51:16,760 the same faces in the same order constantly. 2231 01:51:17,000 --> 01:51:19,560 The breeder followed by the breeder's husband or wife, 2232 01:51:19,800 --> 01:51:22,480 followed by the breeder's close friend, followed by the close 2233 01:51:22,480 --> 01:51:24,040 friend's boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever. 2234 01:51:24,800 --> 01:51:27,480 First, second, third, fourth, They're all the same people and 2235 01:51:27,480 --> 01:51:29,320 it's all from the same kennel, the same whatever. 2236 01:51:29,880 --> 01:51:31,400 And, and it gets pulled into question. 2237 01:51:31,560 --> 01:51:34,880 You know, again, some of these breeders have been in the game 2238 01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:37,160 for a really long time and they're really old people now. 2239 01:51:37,160 --> 01:51:41,120 So the judges that qualified 3040 years ago, they were 2240 01:51:41,120 --> 01:51:43,680 probably both young people who knew each other from back then, 2241 01:51:44,040 --> 01:51:48,680 you know, and again, it pose them to the question of, you 2242 01:51:48,680 --> 01:51:51,320 know, are they awarding these people because they know each 2243 01:51:51,320 --> 01:51:53,440 other, because they're best friends, because they trained 2244 01:51:53,440 --> 01:51:55,360 together, because they went through their entire career 2245 01:51:55,360 --> 01:51:57,120 together, whatever. Again, it might be true, it 2246 01:51:57,120 --> 01:51:58,480 might not be. I'm not saying anything of 2247 01:51:58,480 --> 01:52:02,760 anyone, but these questions are often asked because you see the 2248 01:52:02,840 --> 01:52:05,360 stuff. And the same breeders also are 2249 01:52:05,360 --> 01:52:09,120 saying to newcomers and people who aren't in their inner 2250 01:52:09,120 --> 01:52:12,040 circle, come to these dog shows, book your entry. 2251 01:52:12,040 --> 01:52:14,040 Because if you don't, then we're going to lose our class. 2252 01:52:14,200 --> 01:52:15,640 Our breed won't be judged anymore. 2253 01:52:16,360 --> 01:52:19,240 Why would the person come if it's the same result every time? 2254 01:52:19,600 --> 01:52:22,200 What motivation do they have left to continue to exhibit 2255 01:52:22,200 --> 01:52:24,480 their dog if they don't stand the chance? 2256 01:52:25,600 --> 01:52:28,280 Right. So they exhibit their dog, they 2257 01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:31,640 if they win, they're able to charge a higher price. 2258 01:52:31,640 --> 01:52:34,160 Is that basically it? Ultimately, it just fuels. 2259 01:52:34,760 --> 01:52:37,800 It's a good justification because if you're the top kennel 2260 01:52:37,800 --> 01:52:41,800 and the top breeder in your country and and you say my dog 2261 01:52:41,800 --> 01:52:45,800 is 6500, not 2000 like the other breeders because I'm the top 2262 01:52:45,800 --> 01:52:48,920 breeder. Yeah, it's justifiable. 2263 01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:52,560 But at the same time, it's crazy because there are kennels who 2264 01:52:52,560 --> 01:52:58,680 charge, I don't know, 8000 to 10,000 for a sheba in the Uki 2265 01:52:58,920 --> 01:53:02,000 won't name which one specifically, but there is 2266 01:53:02,000 --> 01:53:04,080 kennels who do that. But yet if I wanted to get a 2267 01:53:04,080 --> 01:53:06,800 sheba from the original region in Japan delivered to my 2268 01:53:06,800 --> 01:53:11,440 doorstep, I would only pay £5000, which I would understand 2269 01:53:11,440 --> 01:53:15,040 because it's coming from Japan. So why is it that a specific UK 2270 01:53:15,040 --> 01:53:18,000 kennel is able to charge between 6000 to 10,000? 2271 01:53:18,640 --> 01:53:20,920 Well, because they're the top or because they're the best, 2272 01:53:21,560 --> 01:53:25,560 according to who? Because I used to hold that 2273 01:53:25,560 --> 01:53:29,080 kennel in really high regard before because of what people 2274 01:53:29,080 --> 01:53:30,480 told me and because of what I've seen. 2275 01:53:31,000 --> 01:53:34,720 And now I'm in Europe. It's as if that kennel doesn't 2276 01:53:34,720 --> 01:53:37,040 exist anymore and as if that person doesn't exist anymore. 2277 01:53:37,040 --> 01:53:40,000 Whatever like you see at that point that actually their their 2278 01:53:40,000 --> 01:53:42,360 status only exists there and that's it. 2279 01:53:43,080 --> 01:53:47,920 Since that they're not as highly prestigious, I would say that 2280 01:53:47,920 --> 01:53:50,880 this person is still really well respected and still really well 2281 01:53:50,880 --> 01:53:53,640 known in the community 100% even in Europe. 2282 01:53:53,640 --> 01:53:59,320 But whether you would say their dogs are like exceptional and 2283 01:53:59,480 --> 01:54:02,160 better than anything that you've seen before and definitely worth 2284 01:54:02,160 --> 01:54:04,680 the price tag, I don't know. And the other thing too is that 2285 01:54:05,040 --> 01:54:07,600 you see with their owners of the kennel, like they say, oh, I 2286 01:54:07,600 --> 01:54:11,720 have a dog from this particular kennel and they advertise it as 2287 01:54:11,720 --> 01:54:15,360 if I was saying my bag's a Gucci bag, not like whatever you've 2288 01:54:15,360 --> 01:54:17,800 got over there and this is a Gucci, not what you have. 2289 01:54:17,960 --> 01:54:20,760 They go around with the same level of elitism. 2290 01:54:21,720 --> 01:54:25,200 Right. Gosh, so yeah, it happens. 2291 01:54:26,680 --> 01:54:30,680 But it's it's again like such an important thing because again, 2292 01:54:30,680 --> 01:54:32,920 so these are the same people that are complaining about the 2293 01:54:32,920 --> 01:54:37,480 fact that there is no newcomers into the ex exhibitions or 2294 01:54:37,480 --> 01:54:39,040 coming into showing dogs whatever. 2295 01:54:39,160 --> 01:54:41,080 Why would they? Maybe. 2296 01:54:41,120 --> 01:54:44,720 The culture is changing. Hopefully it is. 2297 01:54:45,080 --> 01:54:48,480 Hopefully it is because again, the same way works for all 2298 01:54:48,480 --> 01:54:51,680 establishments and all sports in general, because I do consider 2299 01:54:51,680 --> 01:54:55,000 confirmation as a sport. The old guard will soon die out 2300 01:54:55,640 --> 01:54:59,880 and the, the new guard will come in and all the people that are 2301 01:54:59,880 --> 01:55:02,320 up and coming in the new guard are people that I know 2302 01:55:02,320 --> 01:55:04,720 specifically too. But these are the people that 2303 01:55:04,720 --> 01:55:07,360 would never judge anyone, never say a bad thing to anyone. 2304 01:55:07,360 --> 01:55:09,840 If anything, they've tried to help one another, you know? 2305 01:55:09,840 --> 01:55:13,960 So I, I do hope that in the future we see a big change in 2306 01:55:13,960 --> 01:55:17,960 attitudes towards people coming into the sport, coming into 2307 01:55:17,960 --> 01:55:20,800 breeding, because The thing is like, I would want more people 2308 01:55:20,800 --> 01:55:24,240 breeding and I would want more people owning these primitive 2309 01:55:24,240 --> 01:55:26,800 rare breeds that people have never heard about before. 2310 01:55:26,800 --> 01:55:29,240 But again, you need to be the right kind of person. 2311 01:55:29,240 --> 01:55:30,640 Your mindset needs to be correct. 2312 01:55:31,440 --> 01:55:33,360 You need to have the dog's best interest at heart. 2313 01:55:33,360 --> 01:55:35,480 You need to be doing it from, again like I said before, a 2314 01:55:35,480 --> 01:55:38,720 preservation perspective, not money making. 2315 01:55:40,560 --> 01:55:44,840 I see. Yeah, gosh, So for someone 2316 01:55:44,840 --> 01:55:49,280 buying puppies, maybe not just Akitas and Shibos, but in 2317 01:55:49,280 --> 01:55:54,080 general, what would you say as a breeder, what would you advise 2318 01:55:54,080 --> 01:55:58,160 them to look out for to ensure that they are not buying 2319 01:55:58,200 --> 01:56:03,360 genetically, you know, compromised dogs from a backyard 2320 01:56:03,360 --> 01:56:07,760 breeder or supporting fuelling this industry that is just so, 2321 01:56:07,760 --> 01:56:10,840 so cruel to to the mums? Yeah. 2322 01:56:11,360 --> 01:56:17,040 I would say definitely asked to see the mom when you come. 2323 01:56:17,720 --> 01:56:20,920 The father not being present is actually somewhat common. 2324 01:56:20,920 --> 01:56:23,440 You might find that they used a different stud and they didn't 2325 01:56:23,440 --> 01:56:25,480 own the father. You know, for me it's quite 2326 01:56:25,480 --> 01:56:30,880 lucky because I own my studs and my I own both sires and dams. 2327 01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:32,800 So it will never be that you don't see parents. 2328 01:56:32,800 --> 01:56:36,320 So that's great, but it's not uncommon for someone to not have 2329 01:56:37,040 --> 01:56:40,920 the sire of the litter. The other thing too is teething. 2330 01:56:40,920 --> 01:56:45,200 How much are they teething? Because when you meet a puppy, 2331 01:56:46,040 --> 01:56:48,800 it's not uncommon for that dog to nibble and chew on your 2332 01:56:48,800 --> 01:56:50,320 fingers or your clothes, whatever. 2333 01:56:50,320 --> 01:56:53,720 But how hard are they doing it? Because if they're puncturing 2334 01:56:53,720 --> 01:56:58,000 skin, the mum has not corrected that behaviour. 2335 01:56:58,000 --> 01:57:01,240 The mum has not invested a lot of time into making sure that 2336 01:57:01,240 --> 01:57:05,320 they don't know what a pain pressure like threshold looks 2337 01:57:05,320 --> 01:57:08,080 like. You know, even me with my puppy, 2338 01:57:08,680 --> 01:57:11,400 they would bite for example, and even if they didn't break skin 2339 01:57:11,400 --> 01:57:12,840 or hurt me, I would still be like how? 2340 01:57:13,560 --> 01:57:15,800 Just to trigger our reaction from them because they would 2341 01:57:15,800 --> 01:57:18,240 then know that they're not supposed to do that because that 2342 01:57:18,240 --> 01:57:21,440 sound would be enough for them to think alternatively about how 2343 01:57:21,440 --> 01:57:24,280 hard they bite. I'm quite lucky because I had 2344 01:57:24,280 --> 01:57:28,080 the siren in my litter, so the dad was actually quite great at 2345 01:57:28,080 --> 01:57:31,480 snapping them into correct correction when they were biting 2346 01:57:31,480 --> 01:57:34,000 too hard because he's actually quite sensitive when it comes to 2347 01:57:34,000 --> 01:57:36,760 being bitten luckily. So the puppies were great when 2348 01:57:36,760 --> 01:57:39,200 it came to knitting and biting. They barely even did anything. 2349 01:57:39,200 --> 01:57:42,320 You would just feel their teeth like the pressure of the tooth 2350 01:57:42,320 --> 01:57:44,080 on your finger, you would not feel anything more. 2351 01:57:44,160 --> 01:57:46,440 They would never really bite because itch is really 2352 01:57:46,440 --> 01:57:48,920 sensitive. So that's another thing to look 2353 01:57:48,920 --> 01:57:51,560 out for. The second one I would say is 2354 01:57:51,840 --> 01:57:55,320 can they calm down like shortly after the interaction? 2355 01:57:55,920 --> 01:57:57,880 Because when you come into a room, like, obviously you're a 2356 01:57:57,880 --> 01:57:59,600 stranger coming in. Yeah. 2357 01:57:59,840 --> 01:58:02,880 Energy regulation, yeah, 100%. You know, are they able to do 2358 01:58:02,880 --> 01:58:04,880 that? Because puppies don't have a lot 2359 01:58:04,880 --> 01:58:07,520 of gas in the tank. You know, they don't have much, 2360 01:58:08,720 --> 01:58:12,000 especially when you pick them up like 10-11 weeks old, whatever. 2361 01:58:12,280 --> 01:58:15,280 They don't have like a tonne. You know, if you spend half an 2362 01:58:15,280 --> 01:58:19,080 hour, 5 to 10 minutes of that interaction should be when they 2363 01:58:19,080 --> 01:58:22,600 go, oh God, all that playing, you know, I've got to take a 2364 01:58:22,600 --> 01:58:24,840 rest. They should do it, you know, 2365 01:58:26,120 --> 01:58:29,080 100%. The last thing I would say to 2366 01:58:29,080 --> 01:58:33,680 it, are they the type of puppy that just wants to jump up 2367 01:58:33,680 --> 01:58:37,120 constantly and just want to be like, pick me up, look at me, 2368 01:58:37,120 --> 01:58:39,040 give me attention. Are they needy in that way? 2369 01:58:39,040 --> 01:58:42,480 Because then, you know, if the breeder has left them alone so 2370 01:58:42,480 --> 01:58:44,440 they can actually decompress properly or not. 2371 01:58:44,920 --> 01:58:48,000 You know, I would do this quite a lot in the sense where I 2372 01:58:48,000 --> 01:58:50,880 would, we had them French doors in the house that we lived in. 2373 01:58:50,880 --> 01:58:53,280 So there was like a big window that you could kind of watch 2374 01:58:53,280 --> 01:58:55,720 them from. I would put a deck chair outside 2375 01:58:55,720 --> 01:58:57,680 and I would shut the door to make them think that I've left 2376 01:58:57,680 --> 01:59:01,800 the and I would leave the pen shut so they couldn't escape 2377 01:59:01,800 --> 01:59:04,720 into any part of the house. And I would just watch them to 2378 01:59:04,720 --> 01:59:07,320 see what they would do. And naturally they would howl 2379 01:59:07,320 --> 01:59:10,320 for a little bit, scream for a little bit and then get too 2380 01:59:10,320 --> 01:59:13,760 tired and go to sleep. And then I would wait for half 2381 01:59:13,760 --> 01:59:15,240 an hour, then come back into the room. 2382 01:59:15,240 --> 01:59:17,600 And they learned very quickly that they can just be left alone 2383 01:59:18,240 --> 01:59:20,800 and go to sleep and that's it. They're not going to die. 2384 01:59:20,800 --> 01:59:22,200 They don't need me there forever. 2385 01:59:23,080 --> 01:59:25,040 And they learn how to be independent in that way. 2386 01:59:25,920 --> 01:59:29,080 So the ability that you're not giving them too much attention 2387 01:59:29,960 --> 01:59:33,480 and they don't seem to mind it is another thing to look out for 2388 01:59:33,480 --> 01:59:36,480 too. You know, a lot of the times 2389 01:59:38,720 --> 01:59:40,960 puppies, like you see them and they just come to you and they 2390 01:59:40,960 --> 01:59:43,240 just want attention constantly. And they're almost fighting each 2391 01:59:43,240 --> 01:59:46,000 other for the attention because you pick up one in specific 2392 01:59:46,000 --> 01:59:48,480 because you like the look of it or because it came to you first 2393 01:59:48,920 --> 01:59:51,400 and it's brother, it's chewing on its ear or the other one's 2394 01:59:51,400 --> 01:59:54,240 grabbing its tail and trying to, like, pull him away from you or 2395 01:59:54,240 --> 01:59:55,280 something like that. You know. 2396 01:59:56,280 --> 01:59:59,440 So I would say, yeah, those three areas are the most common 2397 01:59:59,840 --> 02:00:02,400 to look out for because then, you know, if a breeder has not 2398 02:00:02,400 --> 02:00:05,560 only done a good job, but also the mom has been a good 2399 02:00:05,560 --> 02:00:07,600 influence on them. And you're picking up dogs that 2400 02:00:07,600 --> 02:00:11,440 are mentally at least, on the first step of the ladder to 2401 02:00:11,440 --> 02:00:14,960 achieving full mental maturity. Right. 2402 02:00:15,520 --> 02:00:18,760 OK, that's so interesting because I think there's a lot of 2403 02:00:18,760 --> 02:00:23,560 parallels between the, I guess, cognitive and behavioural 2404 02:00:23,720 --> 02:00:27,680 development of puppies compared to humans. 2405 02:00:27,800 --> 02:00:30,560 You know, that object permanence, like where you're 2406 02:00:30,560 --> 02:00:34,120 able to leave the room and come back and then they like they 2407 02:00:34,120 --> 02:00:37,880 learned that you didn't disappear, like you didn't like, 2408 02:00:38,000 --> 02:00:40,040 you know what, to evaporate or whatever. 2409 02:00:41,640 --> 02:00:46,080 And then the attachment theory with regards to that neediness 2410 02:00:46,080 --> 02:00:49,600 and giving them that, like having that bond with a mom and 2411 02:00:49,600 --> 02:00:54,200 the litter mates that is sufficient for them to survive 2412 02:00:54,200 --> 02:00:58,360 on their own I guess without being overly needy or anxious 2413 02:00:58,360 --> 02:01:00,400 or. Yeah, I mean, I definitely want 2414 02:01:00,400 --> 02:01:03,400 them to have like a sense of like independence from a young 2415 02:01:03,400 --> 02:01:07,040 age because don't forget TI mean like not everyone is like me and 2416 02:01:07,040 --> 02:01:09,920 my wife. Where we devote our entire lives 2417 02:01:09,920 --> 02:01:12,680 to the dogs people have work, people have, I don't know, 2418 02:01:12,680 --> 02:01:15,680 family emergencies or their friend needs them and they need 2419 02:01:15,680 --> 02:01:17,160 to leave the house all of a sudden. 2420 02:01:17,160 --> 02:01:21,560 Look, if your puppy isn't able to just go to sleep or play with 2421 02:01:21,560 --> 02:01:24,240 a toy and then tyre itself up and go to sleep afterwards and 2422 02:01:24,240 --> 02:01:25,880 then you come home and nothing bad happened. 2423 02:01:27,240 --> 02:01:29,680 You can't live that way. You know, it's, it's such a bad 2424 02:01:29,680 --> 02:01:32,000 thing and also gives you a lot of anxiety because if you're 2425 02:01:32,440 --> 02:01:35,080 dealing with a family emergency or you have to go out, whatever. 2426 02:01:35,080 --> 02:01:37,840 And in the back of your head it's like, oh, I hope he hasn't 2427 02:01:37,840 --> 02:01:40,480 destroyed the house or pooed on my laptop or something like 2428 02:01:40,480 --> 02:01:42,760 that. You know, you can't live that 2429 02:01:42,760 --> 02:01:44,640 way or it's a terrible way to go about doing it. 2430 02:01:44,640 --> 02:01:46,400 You know, it's not a comfortable experience at all. 2431 02:01:47,040 --> 02:01:50,240 No, no, it's not. I, I, I have that challenge with 2432 02:01:50,240 --> 02:01:54,000 do not at the moment because I can't even take the bin out, you 2433 02:01:54,000 --> 02:01:56,080 know, and I can hear her barking. 2434 02:01:56,080 --> 02:01:58,720 She goes bonkers. She's like, Oh my God, she's 2435 02:01:58,720 --> 02:02:02,320 left me again, you know, even though I'm back in like 5 2436 02:02:02,320 --> 02:02:04,920 minutes. But but yeah, no, I think it 2437 02:02:04,920 --> 02:02:08,640 would have made a huge difference if, if dogs are able 2438 02:02:08,640 --> 02:02:10,880 to have that level of independence, it makes a huge 2439 02:02:10,880 --> 02:02:13,440 difference. Otherwise it can be, I think 2440 02:02:13,440 --> 02:02:17,200 having an anxious dog can become what's it called? 2441 02:02:17,200 --> 02:02:20,440 Is that carers fatigue? You know, it's very draining if 2442 02:02:20,440 --> 02:02:23,920 you can't leave the dogs at. All 100%, You know, like I 2443 02:02:23,920 --> 02:02:26,720 remember when I picked up my Sheba, I, we couldn't drive at 2444 02:02:26,720 --> 02:02:30,320 the time, so we had to go from Brighton to Manchester to pick 2445 02:02:30,320 --> 02:02:34,920 up the dog by train. We left the dogs alone for 9 1/2 2446 02:02:34,920 --> 02:02:38,480 hours in total that day just because there was so many delays 2447 02:02:38,480 --> 02:02:40,520 and everything's going on with the trains and all that sort of 2448 02:02:40,520 --> 02:02:42,400 stuff. And as it does with railways, as 2449 02:02:42,400 --> 02:02:48,480 you know, but every time we look for the camera, nothing playing 2450 02:02:48,480 --> 02:02:50,680 with each other and sleeping, playing with each other and 2451 02:02:50,680 --> 02:02:53,120 sleeping because we had two Akitas living at the time in the 2452 02:02:53,120 --> 02:02:54,960 house. And the worst thing that they 2453 02:02:54,960 --> 02:02:58,160 did was my female Akita kids. For now, she pooed in the 2454 02:02:58,160 --> 02:03:00,200 bathtub because she couldn't wait any longer. 2455 02:03:00,520 --> 02:03:02,600 And I was like, how can I even be mad at that? 2456 02:03:02,960 --> 02:03:05,160 Because you did it in such a convenient spot and all that. 2457 02:03:05,160 --> 02:03:07,560 All I had to do was turn the shower head on and wash it off 2458 02:03:07,560 --> 02:03:09,480 and that's it. You know, how could I even be 2459 02:03:09,480 --> 02:03:13,000 mad at that? I came home at like midnight and 2460 02:03:13,040 --> 02:03:16,200 I introduced the sheba to them both and they went to sleep 2461 02:03:16,200 --> 02:03:17,360 after that. And The thing is, this is, 2462 02:03:17,360 --> 02:03:22,480 again, another testament to how, like, how much time I give in to 2463 02:03:22,480 --> 02:03:24,840 in terms of like, socialisation with my dogs and the correct 2464 02:03:24,840 --> 02:03:27,720 attitude to have towards other dogs because they accepted very 2465 02:03:27,720 --> 02:03:30,800 immediately. She fell asleep with them on the 2466 02:03:30,800 --> 02:03:34,120 first night, which as a big deal for a lot of people. 2467 02:03:34,120 --> 02:03:36,320 But yeah. And I remember going to the 2468 02:03:36,320 --> 02:03:38,720 toilet and because I had a such a long day and I just found this 2469 02:03:38,800 --> 02:03:41,080 big lump of poo in the bathtub and I was like, well, I can't 2470 02:03:41,080 --> 02:03:43,000 even be mad at that because it's not even like it's an 2471 02:03:43,000 --> 02:03:47,640 inconvenient spot, you know? Oh, bless them. 2472 02:03:47,680 --> 02:03:49,720 Yeah, 9 hours is a very long time. 2473 02:03:49,960 --> 02:03:52,800 I got into a debate with someone recently actually, because they 2474 02:03:52,800 --> 02:03:55,400 were talking about in Norway I think it's illegal to leave your 2475 02:03:55,400 --> 02:03:58,360 dogs for over a certain period. I think it's four hours. 2476 02:03:58,480 --> 02:04:00,720 Right it is. It is 4 hours and you need to 2477 02:04:00,720 --> 02:04:03,520 take an exam before being eligible to buy a dog too. 2478 02:04:04,320 --> 02:04:05,680 Yeah. What do you think about that? 2479 02:04:07,080 --> 02:04:11,520 I think it's good, you know, the, the, the whole idea behind 2480 02:04:11,520 --> 02:04:13,360 the law is good, but at the same time. 2481 02:04:14,360 --> 02:04:17,280 If my granddad's in hospital, my dad's in hospital, whatever and 2482 02:04:17,280 --> 02:04:20,120 I need to go or whatever and I the hospital isn't going to 2483 02:04:20,120 --> 02:04:22,960 allow the dog to be there, should I be arrested for it 2484 02:04:22,960 --> 02:04:26,440 later on? No, it has its caveats. 2485 02:04:26,440 --> 02:04:28,640 You know, with like every law, you know, there's good 2486 02:04:28,640 --> 02:04:32,880 intentions behind it, but whether it's always so black and 2487 02:04:32,880 --> 02:04:36,960 white in a real life scenario is completely different question, 2488 02:04:37,000 --> 02:04:38,960 you know, But the intention is good. 2489 02:04:39,640 --> 02:04:41,600 You know what I mean? At the same time, like the same 2490 02:04:41,600 --> 02:04:44,400 goes for the law of passing an exam to get a dog. 2491 02:04:44,720 --> 02:04:48,440 You could pass the exam and be a complete, you know, after 2492 02:04:48,560 --> 02:04:52,360 disgusting human being to that though, you can use it after you 2493 02:04:52,360 --> 02:04:54,840 can do whatever, you know, just because you passed an exam, it 2494 02:04:54,840 --> 02:04:57,600 doesn't mean anything. You know, like I can pass my 2495 02:04:57,600 --> 02:04:59,880 driving exam and then run somebody over the next day, you 2496 02:04:59,880 --> 02:05:03,200 know, is my driving instructor not at fault because I'm 2497 02:05:03,200 --> 02:05:06,680 secretly A maniac and didn't tell him anything about my life? 2498 02:05:06,680 --> 02:05:09,680 You know, again, it's so it's one of those things that I don't 2499 02:05:09,680 --> 02:05:13,480 really think that we could actually find like a like an 2500 02:05:13,480 --> 02:05:18,120 exam that would fully, like, what's it called? 2501 02:05:19,120 --> 02:05:23,920 Fully find a way to. Yeah, fully find a way to 2502 02:05:23,920 --> 02:05:27,120 actually qualify someone as that's the word I'm looking for. 2503 02:05:27,120 --> 02:05:31,280 Qualify, qualify someone as a good dog owner, you know, And 2504 02:05:31,280 --> 02:05:34,240 The thing is too, I actually don't believe that I'll ever be 2505 02:05:34,240 --> 02:05:36,520 like the perfect dog owner. I actually think that it's 2506 02:05:36,520 --> 02:05:38,080 something that I'm chasing forever. 2507 02:05:38,080 --> 02:05:40,760 That's my mindset when it comes to being a dog earner. 2508 02:05:41,040 --> 02:05:43,920 I'm always trying to think of how I can make their life 2509 02:05:43,920 --> 02:05:45,760 better. Like, yeah, I moved a whole 2510 02:05:45,760 --> 02:05:48,200 country for them to a country where I don't even speak the 2511 02:05:48,200 --> 02:05:49,800 language. And luckily I have my wife with 2512 02:05:49,800 --> 02:05:52,720 me. But even though I'm doing these 2513 02:05:52,720 --> 02:05:54,840 things for them, and every day I'm training them and every day 2514 02:05:54,840 --> 02:05:57,600 I'm trying to find a ways to do something different, whatever, 2515 02:05:57,600 --> 02:05:59,880 I'm trying to find new routes for them to walk on and stuff 2516 02:05:59,880 --> 02:06:02,200 like that. I'm still thinking deep down 2517 02:06:02,200 --> 02:06:05,160 there's something more or better that I could be doing for them. 2518 02:06:05,160 --> 02:06:09,520 And I do think that it's a beautiful thing to think about 2519 02:06:09,520 --> 02:06:13,720 and to enter that mindspace because a lot of clients ask at 2520 02:06:13,720 --> 02:06:16,600 what point do I stop training? And it's like, I don't know who 2521 02:06:16,600 --> 02:06:19,920 told you that you should stop training, you know, Because if 2522 02:06:19,920 --> 02:06:24,280 you do, then OK, your dog's excitement kind of goes away and 2523 02:06:24,280 --> 02:06:27,240 your dog's just kind of kind of settle into this Moat be OK. 2524 02:06:27,680 --> 02:06:30,360 We walk along the beach and we grab ice cream and then we go 2525 02:06:30,360 --> 02:06:31,880 home every day. That's what we do. 2526 02:06:31,880 --> 02:06:33,240 You know, I guess that's my life. 2527 02:06:33,240 --> 02:06:35,840 And if it doesn't change in any way, or at least you're not 2528 02:06:35,840 --> 02:06:38,400 stimulating your dog or trying to find other ways of doing it, 2529 02:06:39,040 --> 02:06:40,400 it's not really good for anyone really. 2530 02:06:40,400 --> 02:06:42,880 Like if I said to you, oh, you know, here's a house for you and 2531 02:06:42,880 --> 02:06:45,760 your child and this is your routine for the next 50 years 2532 02:06:45,760 --> 02:06:47,680 and you don't get to do anything different other than that, you 2533 02:06:47,680 --> 02:06:51,720 know, you'd go and say it wouldn't work and it's not right 2534 02:06:51,720 --> 02:06:54,200 for a child to be in that moment. 2535 02:06:54,200 --> 02:06:56,840 And we focus so much on child development and stuff like that. 2536 02:06:56,840 --> 02:06:59,680 It's a really big sector. But we don't sadly do it for 2537 02:06:59,680 --> 02:07:02,680 animals in any way. And not just for dogs to horses 2538 02:07:02,680 --> 02:07:06,040 have the same thing, cats have the same thing, even lizards 2539 02:07:06,040 --> 02:07:08,640 have the same thing, you know? Like no one talks about it, you 2540 02:07:08,640 --> 02:07:11,360 know? No, but it's so, so important, 2541 02:07:11,360 --> 02:07:14,440 you know, just thinking about the, you know, the Excel bully 2542 02:07:14,440 --> 02:07:19,240 ban and breed specific legislation, obviously we have 2543 02:07:19,240 --> 02:07:22,280 learned over time that that actually didn't do anything to 2544 02:07:22,280 --> 02:07:27,440 stop or, you know, reverse, you know, bites from dogs. 2545 02:07:27,440 --> 02:07:31,640 And so, yeah, really curious from your perspective, firstly, 2546 02:07:31,640 --> 02:07:36,400 you know what, what can be done, what can be done to to stop dogs 2547 02:07:36,400 --> 02:07:39,600 from biting humans or what is the reason do you think that 2548 02:07:39,600 --> 02:07:42,880 that is happening and why is it on the rise? 2549 02:07:43,720 --> 02:07:46,440 It's a whole like myriad of reasons really. 2550 02:07:46,440 --> 02:07:49,840 I mean, the first one is the obvious and that's people with 2551 02:07:50,960 --> 02:07:52,880 egos should not pick up the hooks. 2552 02:07:52,920 --> 02:07:56,160 You know that that that's the the biggest one out of all of 2553 02:07:56,160 --> 02:07:58,480 them. Because again, I'm not so seen 2554 02:07:58,480 --> 02:08:01,520 discriminatory towards any demographics in any way. 2555 02:08:01,520 --> 02:08:04,800 But Excel bullies were bought by drug dealers. 2556 02:08:04,840 --> 02:08:09,160 You know, they were, they were bought by people who had a 2557 02:08:09,160 --> 02:08:12,880 tendency to do illegal activity and had this feeling that people 2558 02:08:12,880 --> 02:08:15,160 would possibly break into their homes and steal their 2559 02:08:15,520 --> 02:08:18,000 possessions or still whatever they were selling, whatever. 2560 02:08:18,720 --> 02:08:22,080 Even on the news at some point, I remember a con members who was 2561 02:08:22,080 --> 02:08:24,080 Piers Morgan or somebody else that they spoke to. 2562 02:08:24,080 --> 02:08:28,000 But a breeder of Excel Bullies admitted that the only reason he 2563 02:08:28,000 --> 02:08:31,160 bred these dogs was so that drug dealers could start paying him 2564 02:08:31,840 --> 02:08:33,960 for our dogs specifically. And it could be known as the 2565 02:08:33,960 --> 02:08:36,800 drug dealers all kind of thing. And again, if you look at all 2566 02:08:36,800 --> 02:08:40,480 the people who owned them, it was majority, even people in 2567 02:08:40,480 --> 02:08:42,920 illegal activities or people that were selling drugs, 2568 02:08:42,920 --> 02:08:46,200 whatever. And so that's the first part is 2569 02:08:46,200 --> 02:08:51,640 that people should qualify the customers that come to them when 2570 02:08:51,640 --> 02:08:53,000 it comes to buying dogs whatever. 2571 02:08:53,000 --> 02:08:56,320 And if it's in any way obvious or made known to this person 2572 02:08:56,320 --> 02:09:00,000 that maybe they're into that sort of stuff or maybe they have 2573 02:09:00,000 --> 02:09:03,600 minor connections and that kind of activity to not sell the dog 2574 02:09:03,600 --> 02:09:06,800 to that person, You know, we had it with our Akita puppy. 2575 02:09:06,800 --> 02:09:09,600 One person came and said, can I pay cash? 2576 02:09:09,600 --> 02:09:11,800 And I really wasn't comfortable doing that because I would have 2577 02:09:11,800 --> 02:09:15,040 to declare it alternatively and I have to have to prove that he 2578 02:09:15,040 --> 02:09:16,600 gave me the money and so on and so forth. 2579 02:09:16,600 --> 02:09:19,800 And I said to him, we did agree that it would be done by a bank 2580 02:09:19,800 --> 02:09:21,960 transfer. Is there any reason why it can't 2581 02:09:21,960 --> 02:09:27,480 be done that way? And he basically said that if he 2582 02:09:27,480 --> 02:09:30,080 gave cash, it wouldn't be him paying cash and it'd be his 2583 02:09:30,080 --> 02:09:32,960 friend paying us. And would it be OK if we met his 2584 02:09:32,960 --> 02:09:35,520 friend in a car park of Churchill Square, like the 2585 02:09:35,560 --> 02:09:38,480 shopping centre, whatever. And then we delivered the dog to 2586 02:09:38,480 --> 02:09:40,160 him in the car park and stuff like that. 2587 02:09:40,480 --> 02:09:42,760 It seems super sketchy. And in my mind I was like, no, 2588 02:09:42,760 --> 02:09:44,880 no, this is starting to sound like a drug drop off. 2589 02:09:44,880 --> 02:09:48,160 Like not even a puppy pickup. Like no, not doing any of this 2590 02:09:48,160 --> 02:09:49,680 stuff. Like I'm not, I'm not 2591 02:09:49,680 --> 02:09:52,680 interested. And his home address wasn't even 2592 02:09:52,680 --> 02:09:55,000 a home address. It was like the address of like 2593 02:09:55,000 --> 02:09:58,160 a corner shop in London. It wasn't even like a house. 2594 02:09:58,160 --> 02:10:01,280 He just gave me some address that was near him I got and that 2595 02:10:01,280 --> 02:10:03,360 was it. But people don't think about 2596 02:10:03,360 --> 02:10:04,480 that. A lot of breeders, when they 2597 02:10:04,480 --> 02:10:06,560 sell dogs to people, they just go, yeah, sure, mate. 2598 02:10:06,560 --> 02:10:08,240 Like if that's your address, that's your address. 2599 02:10:08,240 --> 02:10:10,320 And if you want to pay cash and it's your friend dropping it 2600 02:10:10,320 --> 02:10:12,200 off, yeah, sure. I don't mind. 2601 02:10:12,200 --> 02:10:13,000 All good. Whatever. 2602 02:10:13,240 --> 02:10:16,520 They don't think about who's buying it and where it's going 2603 02:10:16,520 --> 02:10:19,080 to whatever. And not much thought is put 2604 02:10:19,080 --> 02:10:22,600 behind that because ultimately they don't care, you know, And 2605 02:10:23,120 --> 02:10:26,640 we even had one owner, it was a bit confused as to why we're 2606 02:10:26,640 --> 02:10:29,000 staying in touch with her because her Labrador breeder 2607 02:10:29,400 --> 02:10:31,960 blocked her after the purchase. And for me, that's scary. 2608 02:10:32,680 --> 02:10:37,720 I don't know why your breeder would shortly after you buying 2609 02:10:37,720 --> 02:10:38,960 the dog. You know, what if I need help 2610 02:10:38,960 --> 02:10:40,440 later on? What if I have a question about 2611 02:10:40,440 --> 02:10:44,200 the dog? Like nothing, you know, like 2612 02:10:44,360 --> 02:10:47,160 it's been 4, it's been 4 years that I've had my Akitas. 2613 02:10:47,160 --> 02:10:50,720 And to this day, I still talk to my reader because I have a 2614 02:10:50,720 --> 02:10:52,880 question or just because I'm curious about something and 2615 02:10:52,880 --> 02:10:55,200 she'll answer me. And I do the same with my owner, 2616 02:10:55,200 --> 02:10:56,640 Sue. Like anytime they need help, 2617 02:10:57,560 --> 02:10:59,360 I'll go do it. If someone needs training, I'll 2618 02:10:59,360 --> 02:11:02,640 fly on my own expense and train their dog whatever, you know, 2619 02:11:02,640 --> 02:11:06,120 I'll do whatever I can. But people don't qualify their 2620 02:11:06,120 --> 02:11:08,080 own as well enough. And now that's that's another 2621 02:11:08,080 --> 02:11:11,000 reason why dogs bite. And the second one mainly is 2622 02:11:11,000 --> 02:11:14,840 about we don't have a good understanding of how to approach 2623 02:11:14,840 --> 02:11:17,920 dogs and how to be around dogs. It's almost as as if find 2624 02:11:17,920 --> 02:11:19,480 they're cut. They're this gesture in our 2625 02:11:19,480 --> 02:11:21,040 lives that provide entertainment. 2626 02:11:21,040 --> 02:11:24,160 And you know, we're almost entitled to walk over to 2627 02:11:24,160 --> 02:11:27,280 somebody's dog and say, hey, let me not even let me touch your 2628 02:11:27,280 --> 02:11:28,600 dog. I'll just put my hand on your 2629 02:11:28,600 --> 02:11:30,040 dog and do. Whatever, you know, like. 2630 02:11:30,800 --> 02:11:32,760 If your dog wasn't friendly, why did you bring it here? 2631 02:11:32,760 --> 02:11:35,800 That's the mentality that we've adopted in this day and age, you 2632 02:11:35,800 --> 02:11:39,160 know, and when your dog displays any kind of uncomfortableness or 2633 02:11:39,160 --> 02:11:42,200 even aggression there, I say it's like, oh, why did you bring 2634 02:11:42,200 --> 02:11:44,160 it here? It's like, you do realise I 2635 02:11:44,160 --> 02:11:46,520 brought it into this public environment so that it does have 2636 02:11:46,520 --> 02:11:48,760 the ability in the future to be good amongst people. 2637 02:11:48,760 --> 02:11:52,840 And because of idiots like you, now I have to back trace and go 2638 02:11:52,840 --> 02:11:55,000 into a low distraction environment and build up to this 2639 02:11:55,000 --> 02:11:57,600 cafe again, because you've been an idiot and walked over and 2640 02:11:58,360 --> 02:12:00,480 part of my French, you know, fucked everything up. 2641 02:12:00,480 --> 02:12:03,840 You know, that's how it is for people. 2642 02:12:03,840 --> 02:12:06,080 And again, same with off leash dogs, you know, like I've had it 2643 02:12:06,080 --> 02:12:08,280 in Brighton. Not even in a park, like in an 2644 02:12:08,280 --> 02:12:12,200 urban environment on a street, not even in a dog park where 2645 02:12:12,520 --> 02:12:17,160 it's illegal to have your dog off the leash on a on a street 2646 02:12:17,160 --> 02:12:19,720 like that. Come up to my sheba who's 2647 02:12:19,720 --> 02:12:22,360 already anxious about life in general, let alone your dog 2648 02:12:23,120 --> 02:12:27,080 that's now ruined everything. I now have to do 2 months extra 2649 02:12:27,320 --> 02:12:30,160 training because you've decided to just have not have the 2650 02:12:30,160 --> 02:12:31,680 patience and hold your dog on a lead. 2651 02:12:32,200 --> 02:12:33,280 Simple as that. You know? 2652 02:12:33,840 --> 02:12:36,920 And the worst thing is I've spent a lot of energy arguing 2653 02:12:36,920 --> 02:12:38,760 with these people, trying to educate these people, whatever, 2654 02:12:38,760 --> 02:12:41,760 to the point where you realise you're talking to a brick wall, 2655 02:12:42,800 --> 02:12:44,200 you know, it doesn't change anything. 2656 02:12:44,200 --> 02:12:46,760 And obviously you having an anxious dog understand all these 2657 02:12:46,760 --> 02:12:49,200 things too, but people don't care. 2658 02:12:49,240 --> 02:12:51,160 And so now you need to start resorting to different 2659 02:12:51,160 --> 02:12:53,640 techniques. And it's like, I had one other 2660 02:12:53,640 --> 02:12:58,560 situation where a Cane Corso off leash ran at Mashikoku 2661 02:12:58,560 --> 02:13:01,080 aggressively, was already growling and already like in 2662 02:13:01,080 --> 02:13:05,160 that stance of ready to attack. I picked her up and I kicked the 2663 02:13:05,160 --> 02:13:08,680 dog because I had no other option because I felt unsafe in 2664 02:13:08,680 --> 02:13:12,160 that moment, right? He ripped half of my boot off 2665 02:13:12,240 --> 02:13:15,880 and I walked home half a shoe barefoot with that dog because 2666 02:13:15,880 --> 02:13:18,920 he took my boot. But he'll have and walked off 2667 02:13:19,520 --> 02:13:22,600 after that. Well, luckily it was just a 2668 02:13:22,680 --> 02:13:24,760 shoe. Yeah, you know, luckily it was 2669 02:13:24,760 --> 02:13:27,200 like a steel toe cap construction boot type thing 2670 02:13:27,200 --> 02:13:28,800 because I wear them often for dog training. 2671 02:13:28,800 --> 02:13:31,000 So it only ripped that part off and that was it. 2672 02:13:31,800 --> 02:13:34,800 I searched the owner for two hours because in my mind I 2673 02:13:34,800 --> 02:13:37,480 thought there's either someone who's lost their dog and is 2674 02:13:37,480 --> 02:13:41,520 looking for that dog, or there is an idiot with headphones in 2675 02:13:41,800 --> 02:13:45,360 walking around Preston Park who has no idea what his dog is up 2676 02:13:45,360 --> 02:13:47,280 to. That's the reality. 2677 02:13:47,560 --> 02:13:49,360 Couldn't find the owner, couldn't find anything. 2678 02:13:49,360 --> 02:13:51,200 And I thought, you know, well, my dog's traumatised. 2679 02:13:51,640 --> 02:13:54,080 I can barely breathe and look straight at this point because 2680 02:13:54,080 --> 02:13:56,360 of how shocked I am and the adrenaline and everything. 2681 02:13:56,360 --> 02:13:59,840 So walked home. But again, our perceptions don't 2682 02:13:59,840 --> 02:14:01,000 change when it comes to this stuff. 2683 02:14:01,000 --> 02:14:03,480 And too many people are impatient when it comes to their 2684 02:14:03,480 --> 02:14:05,880 dog in general. And so that's another reason why 2685 02:14:05,880 --> 02:14:08,480 dogs bite. And the third one is because 2686 02:14:08,480 --> 02:14:12,320 people want their dog to bite, you know, and this is something 2687 02:14:12,320 --> 02:14:15,800 I don't understand in any way and I don't think I ever will. 2688 02:14:15,800 --> 02:14:17,960 Like no one will present an argument to me that's going to 2689 02:14:17,960 --> 02:14:21,480 be like, oh, my dog should bite in this environment because all 2690 02:14:21,480 --> 02:14:23,760 the people that are into the protection work and bite work, 2691 02:14:23,760 --> 02:14:25,920 whatever. If you're actually being 2692 02:14:25,920 --> 02:14:29,080 attacked by someone and someone's doing a house invasion 2693 02:14:29,080 --> 02:14:31,880 or whatever, believe me, you don't have to train your dog to 2694 02:14:31,880 --> 02:14:34,920 be in that position. Your dog will find the courage, 2695 02:14:35,160 --> 02:14:40,320 the instinct to go for it 100%. You know, I have Akitas. 2696 02:14:40,320 --> 02:14:41,760 They're very guarding in character. 2697 02:14:41,760 --> 02:14:44,560 Believe me, if I tell you, I dare someone to try to break 2698 02:14:44,560 --> 02:14:46,680 into my house, you will lose your limbs. 2699 02:14:46,760 --> 02:14:50,080 And I'd have never trained them for bite work or anything like 2700 02:14:50,080 --> 02:14:51,320 that. You know, like the most common 2701 02:14:51,320 --> 02:14:55,520 argument for bite work is that it's a stimulus release and they 2702 02:14:55,520 --> 02:14:59,760 learn to control their anger. And it's no different to an MMA 2703 02:14:59,760 --> 02:15:02,360 fighter or a boxer heading into a ring and just stepping into 2704 02:15:02,360 --> 02:15:04,640 that mindset. And it's like if you're a boxer 2705 02:15:04,640 --> 02:15:08,720 or an MMA fighter, you know the risks of going in there. 2706 02:15:08,720 --> 02:15:11,520 You know that potentially someone can deliver a blow to 2707 02:15:11,520 --> 02:15:14,560 your head, to your body, and it might be the last thing that you 2708 02:15:14,560 --> 02:15:18,080 feel forever. You make it paralysed, you may 2709 02:15:18,080 --> 02:15:21,440 die, whatever. You know that people have told 2710 02:15:21,440 --> 02:15:24,920 you that can happen. My dog doesn't have that. 2711 02:15:25,800 --> 02:15:28,360 You know, and dogs, when they get into fights and stuff like 2712 02:15:28,360 --> 02:15:32,400 that, they do not know that they could possibly end their life in 2713 02:15:32,400 --> 02:15:34,160 any way. You know, like they don't know 2714 02:15:34,160 --> 02:15:36,200 that because for them it's a disagreement. 2715 02:15:42,800 --> 02:15:43,520 Oh. Hello. 2716 02:15:46,000 --> 02:15:52,120 I'm inside. Oh, hello, look at the beauty. 2717 02:15:55,240 --> 02:15:57,760 Where is he? Oh, hello. 2718 02:15:59,400 --> 02:16:04,840 So gorgeous. Wow, that's a wolf. 2719 02:16:06,320 --> 02:16:08,240 I'll just do this instead because it's easier. 2720 02:16:10,280 --> 02:16:12,200 OK, we've gone all dog now. Yep. 2721 02:16:14,560 --> 02:16:19,160 See the two there? Where am I looking? 2722 02:16:20,760 --> 02:16:27,920 Oh, oh so gorgeous. I can't wait to cuddle this. 2723 02:16:27,920 --> 02:16:33,200 Do not after our call. They're just beautiful. 2724 02:16:34,360 --> 02:16:38,080 Oh, there you go. So we dropped. 2725 02:16:38,200 --> 02:16:43,200 Unfortunately, that last little clip didn't end because our line 2726 02:16:43,200 --> 02:16:45,600 got cut off. I was saying that the last 2727 02:16:45,600 --> 02:16:49,240 reason why dogs bite is because people want them to. 2728 02:16:49,920 --> 02:16:53,559 And again, this is a really, really big problem. 2729 02:16:53,559 --> 02:16:56,840 And luckily in my career, I haven't had a lot of it, like in 2730 02:16:56,840 --> 02:17:00,240 terms of clients who have deliberately put the dog in a 2731 02:17:00,240 --> 02:17:03,959 situation where I wouldn't want to bite, You know, and I was 2732 02:17:03,959 --> 02:17:07,480 saying before that like a lot of people that do bite sports or 2733 02:17:07,600 --> 02:17:10,360 any type of training that involves a dog biting in any 2734 02:17:10,360 --> 02:17:13,920 way, they always use an excuse of it's a stimulus release or 2735 02:17:13,920 --> 02:17:17,440 it's anger control for the dog. And it's no different to a boxer 2736 02:17:17,440 --> 02:17:20,040 or an MMA fighter heading into the ring for a fight, whatever. 2737 02:17:20,040 --> 02:17:23,000 But at the end of the day, if you're a boxer or an MMA 2738 02:17:23,000 --> 02:17:27,480 fighter, you know fully that there is a risk that you can 2739 02:17:27,480 --> 02:17:30,120 either receive a blow to the head or an injury that might 2740 02:17:30,120 --> 02:17:34,000 even end your life or paralyse you, whatever, so on and so 2741 02:17:34,000 --> 02:17:35,799 forth. You know those risks. 2742 02:17:35,959 --> 02:17:37,680 Your trainer has told you those risks. 2743 02:17:37,719 --> 02:17:39,559 Other people that you know have said, you know, you could 2744 02:17:39,680 --> 02:17:42,799 possibly die in that. Your dog doesn't know that. 2745 02:17:43,719 --> 02:17:48,840 And it's completely different. And when it comes to teaching a 2746 02:17:48,840 --> 02:17:51,200 dog those things, you can't really do it anyways. 2747 02:17:51,200 --> 02:17:53,280 You can't really teach a dog there's a risk that you might 2748 02:17:53,280 --> 02:17:55,160 die in this. And even when dogs fight each 2749 02:17:55,160 --> 02:17:58,400 other, it's not like I'll I'm going to kill you kind of thing. 2750 02:17:58,400 --> 02:18:00,200 It's a disagreement between the two of them. 2751 02:18:01,639 --> 02:18:05,480 That dog isn't even consciously aware when it when it wants to 2752 02:18:06,160 --> 02:18:08,879 kill that it's trying to do that fatal thing, whatever that 2753 02:18:09,240 --> 02:18:10,799 there's plenty of videos out there of. 2754 02:18:11,360 --> 02:18:13,400 Of. Kids killing chihuahuas that 2755 02:18:13,400 --> 02:18:15,719 have maybe taken it too far with them, whatever, because they 2756 02:18:15,719 --> 02:18:18,840 just lost anger and just completely snapped or whatever. 2757 02:18:19,520 --> 02:18:22,879 You can see they walk off and they shake it off and they just 2758 02:18:22,879 --> 02:18:25,600 walk off after. They don't really care because 2759 02:18:25,600 --> 02:18:28,879 it doesn't register in their head the way that without the 2760 02:18:28,879 --> 02:18:30,719 guilt of killing someone would, you know? 2761 02:18:32,320 --> 02:18:33,799 So that's not the final one really. 2762 02:18:33,799 --> 02:18:38,920 And like again, I've had it where a teenager had a pocket 2763 02:18:39,040 --> 02:18:42,360 bully, pocket Pitbull, whatever it's called, smaller version of 2764 02:18:42,360 --> 02:18:47,559 an Excel bully, tiny version. He would grab his pillow and and 2765 02:18:47,719 --> 02:18:51,920 encourage him to bite the pillow and to shake it and really go 2766 02:18:51,920 --> 02:18:55,080 for a known like a pug of war sense, but to attack it full on. 2767 02:18:56,040 --> 02:18:59,920 And So what did this cause? Well, every time he wore a 2768 02:18:59,920 --> 02:19:04,040 hoodie or a baggy clothing, Rocco, the little pocket belly 2769 02:19:04,040 --> 02:19:08,120 would think I attacked that kind of texture, that kind of look. 2770 02:19:09,160 --> 02:19:12,080 I'll go for it. And he reached the point where 2771 02:19:12,080 --> 02:19:13,760 he couldn't get him to stop doing that. 2772 02:19:13,760 --> 02:19:16,480 And so everyone was pretty much up for grabs at that point. 2773 02:19:17,160 --> 02:19:21,000 The funny thing is, and again, like I've had like minor 2774 02:19:21,000 --> 02:19:23,400 training, not for long, but minor training with the Kazakh 2775 02:19:23,400 --> 02:19:26,280 police force with the attack dogs and how they do security 2776 02:19:26,280 --> 02:19:29,040 work and stuff like that. My dad's taken me to seeing 2777 02:19:29,040 --> 02:19:30,240 them. And so I've got cousins in the 2778 02:19:30,240 --> 02:19:32,680 Kazakh military too. So I've, I've had some 2779 02:19:32,680 --> 02:19:36,480 experiences, but the main thing that they teach the dog in that 2780 02:19:36,480 --> 02:19:40,000 environment, first and foremost is how to let go of things. 2781 02:19:40,080 --> 02:19:43,799 So they make the dog pick up an object and they make them let 2782 02:19:43,799 --> 02:19:45,799 go. Because funny enough, when 2783 02:19:45,799 --> 02:19:49,040 you're teaching a dog how to bite, the most important part is 2784 02:19:49,040 --> 02:19:52,240 not the bite and the bite force, it's the letting go. 2785 02:19:52,640 --> 02:19:55,040 Because if you can't let go, then you're pretty much screwed 2786 02:19:55,040 --> 02:19:57,400 in that environment. Because once it's latched on, 2787 02:19:57,400 --> 02:19:59,760 it's latched on. You haven't taught it a clear 2788 02:19:59,760 --> 02:20:01,360 let go command. You're screwed. 2789 02:20:02,080 --> 02:20:04,760 He did not know that because he's ill informed about bike 2790 02:20:04,760 --> 02:20:08,320 training because he's not aware of what it takes to get that dog 2791 02:20:08,320 --> 02:20:12,680 in that environment. It took me 9 months to just get 2792 02:20:12,680 --> 02:20:16,640 that dog to realise the fact that you don't attack fabric, 2793 02:20:16,640 --> 02:20:20,720 you don't attack baggy clothing, you don't just launch and go off 2794 02:20:20,720 --> 02:20:22,720 for it. You know he would break leashes 2795 02:20:23,720 --> 02:20:25,800 going for it. You know it wasn't even safe 2796 02:20:25,800 --> 02:20:27,920 anymore. I told him before, like, you're 2797 02:20:27,920 --> 02:20:32,760 going to have to spend a few months at home desensitising him 2798 02:20:32,760 --> 02:20:35,960 at home because you can't go into public like this. 2799 02:20:35,960 --> 02:20:39,440 If if he sees a child in a hoodie or in a onesie or 2800 02:20:39,440 --> 02:20:43,440 something like that and he goes for it because children do walk 2801 02:20:43,440 --> 02:20:46,400 around the onesies like that and your leash snaps. 2802 02:20:46,640 --> 02:20:49,840 You can't explain to the officer, my leash broke. 2803 02:20:50,560 --> 02:20:53,800 Sorry that your child's dead now or your child's severely 2804 02:20:53,800 --> 02:20:55,520 injured. You're at fault. 2805 02:20:55,800 --> 02:20:58,440 Your dog will be put down. You know, you need to understand 2806 02:20:58,440 --> 02:21:00,240 that. And you can tell him that 2807 02:21:00,240 --> 02:21:01,560 moment. That was the first time he 2808 02:21:01,560 --> 02:21:04,440 understood that responsibility because no one told him this 2809 02:21:04,440 --> 02:21:07,880 before. And suddenly teaching a dog to 2810 02:21:07,880 --> 02:21:10,920 be aggressive and bite in that way wasn't cool anymore, you 2811 02:21:10,920 --> 02:21:12,800 know, and it wasn't something he wanted anymore. 2812 02:21:12,800 --> 02:21:15,600 And you can tell him that moment, but beforehand he was 2813 02:21:15,600 --> 02:21:18,960 like, yeah, I want my dog to bite things and I want him to be 2814 02:21:18,960 --> 02:21:20,320 a bit aggressive and I want him to be a. 2815 02:21:20,320 --> 02:21:22,920 Bit of a. Protector or guarded whatever 2816 02:21:22,920 --> 02:21:25,400 and ended up backfiring greatly, you know? 2817 02:21:27,160 --> 02:21:29,040 Yeah, I made a rod for his own back. 2818 02:21:29,040 --> 02:21:33,680 That's not good, pretty much. And so that's awful, really 2819 02:21:33,680 --> 02:21:35,280 awful. And it's such a shame really, 2820 02:21:35,280 --> 02:21:41,240 because like, we don't, I don't know, maybe it's hard to say 2821 02:21:41,240 --> 02:21:44,920 because I want to say like, from what I've seen, and I've been in 2822 02:21:45,280 --> 02:21:50,280 a wide range of environments in the UKI just can't see the need 2823 02:21:50,280 --> 02:21:54,520 for a protection dog. I just can't. 2824 02:21:54,680 --> 02:21:57,400 But I don't. Think he's? 2825 02:21:57,480 --> 02:21:59,960 Really, even like in certain parts of London where crime's 2826 02:21:59,960 --> 02:22:01,760 really high and everything, I don't get it. 2827 02:22:02,160 --> 02:22:05,160 You know, all of the closest that I've ever had any like 2828 02:22:05,520 --> 02:22:08,760 relatability in that environment was a lady who bought a 2829 02:22:08,760 --> 02:22:11,680 Rottweiler after she'd been mugged in London. 2830 02:22:13,320 --> 02:22:16,480 But again, she, she didn't take him to bite work or any type of 2831 02:22:16,480 --> 02:22:18,320 bite security training or anything like that. 2832 02:22:18,320 --> 02:22:21,280 She didn't do anything. She just wanted a dog beside her 2833 02:22:21,280 --> 02:22:23,960 that would make people think twice about picking on her as a 2834 02:22:23,960 --> 02:22:26,720 victim or picking up her as a target, whatever. 2835 02:22:26,720 --> 02:22:29,280 She wanted that comfortability of someone will. 2836 02:22:29,600 --> 02:22:31,800 If I'm at an ATM again or whatever and someone's going to 2837 02:22:31,800 --> 02:22:35,080 mug me, they'll think, oh, not her because she's got a roller, 2838 02:22:35,640 --> 02:22:38,360 I'm good. She was young enough to take 2839 02:22:38,360 --> 02:22:41,520 care of that dog. And you know, she used to do a 2840 02:22:41,520 --> 02:22:45,840 lot of triathlon work too, so she was very fit and everything. 2841 02:22:45,840 --> 02:22:49,080 She was definitely more than capable of physically exercising 2842 02:22:49,080 --> 02:22:51,920 that dog. But yeah, you know, sadly, she 2843 02:22:51,920 --> 02:22:54,880 got mugged at an ATM when she was taking out money, and she 2844 02:22:54,880 --> 02:22:56,320 just didn't want to be a victim anymore. 2845 02:22:56,320 --> 02:22:59,400 So she was like, you know what? I'm going to get that one dog 2846 02:22:59,400 --> 02:23:01,560 that would make you think, do not pick on me. 2847 02:23:01,560 --> 02:23:05,160 Do not even think about it. And I think she made a good 2848 02:23:05,160 --> 02:23:08,320 decision because her dog was actually quite soppy, the way 2849 02:23:08,320 --> 02:23:10,640 the Rottweilers are. You know, she just wanted a lot 2850 02:23:10,640 --> 02:23:13,520 of cuddles and everything. But again, you'd only know that 2851 02:23:13,520 --> 02:23:16,480 if you knew a bit about dogs. But generally, if you walk past, 2852 02:23:16,920 --> 02:23:20,240 I wrote, Wiley would not think, OK, I'm going to pick on that 2853 02:23:20,240 --> 02:23:22,120 woman to, to rob her of the money, isn't it? 2854 02:23:24,160 --> 02:23:29,120 Yeah, yeah, yeah. What a shame, what a shame that 2855 02:23:29,120 --> 02:23:31,560 she had to, that she felt the need to do that. 2856 02:23:33,240 --> 02:23:35,800 I'm guessing when you trained the Rottie, it was it was a 2857 02:23:35,800 --> 02:23:38,000 softie. So there wasn't really much, you 2858 02:23:38,000 --> 02:23:41,480 know, I guess coercion or averse if needed. 2859 02:23:42,120 --> 02:23:46,200 I only had one incident where it was needed in any way and that 2860 02:23:46,200 --> 02:23:51,240 was when I had one who came from Romania and they basically lied 2861 02:23:51,240 --> 02:23:53,920 to the to the guy and basically said that he was a great family 2862 02:23:53,920 --> 02:23:56,120 dog and he was just a bit misunderstood because of his 2863 02:23:56,120 --> 02:23:58,600 breed or whatever. They get the dog and it 2864 02:23:58,880 --> 02:24:02,200 literally wants to bite everyone, and I mean everyone. 2865 02:24:02,200 --> 02:24:05,160 It doesn't even matter. Male, female, child, whatever. 2866 02:24:05,880 --> 02:24:10,080 Ridiculously aggressive and it was a a lot bigger than the 2867 02:24:10,080 --> 02:24:11,880 average royalty that you normally see. 2868 02:24:12,200 --> 02:24:16,800 I don't know what they said in beforehand or whatever, but I 2869 02:24:16,800 --> 02:24:19,040 was even thinking to myself like how did they catch him? 2870 02:24:19,240 --> 02:24:20,800 You know, like. If it was a stray and they 2871 02:24:20,800 --> 02:24:24,520 brought him in like how how they even put a lead around them and 2872 02:24:24,520 --> 02:24:26,800 just they come, you know, like because he was just so 2873 02:24:26,800 --> 02:24:31,440 aggressive. I put it down to bad genetics 2874 02:24:31,440 --> 02:24:34,280 because every habit based training that I did to condition 2875 02:24:34,280 --> 02:24:37,600 him out of it didn't work and I spent a few months giving him 2876 02:24:37,600 --> 02:24:40,720 the time and the patience to get there because he would always do 2877 02:24:40,720 --> 02:24:43,200 this thing where it was almost like Alzheimer's or like maybe 2878 02:24:43,200 --> 02:24:46,400 even bipolar. He would be fine one minute and 2879 02:24:46,400 --> 02:24:49,520 the next minute he would just bite straight away. 2880 02:24:49,520 --> 02:24:52,120 Not even any warning signs, just go straight to bite in. 2881 02:24:54,040 --> 02:24:58,040 I spoke to like my lecturer about it and my dad about it and 2882 02:24:58,040 --> 02:24:59,680 I even got my dad. To have a look. 2883 02:25:00,000 --> 02:25:01,600 To kind of advise me a bit better. 2884 02:25:03,040 --> 02:25:06,320 And my dad even came close to tears because he hates saying it 2885 02:25:06,320 --> 02:25:10,560 but he was saying I think we need to use an E collar for him 2886 02:25:10,760 --> 02:25:12,160 because I don't see any other way. 2887 02:25:13,000 --> 02:25:17,640 And we did. And it was really weird because 2888 02:25:18,040 --> 02:25:21,600 the lowest voltage was what we started out on. 2889 02:25:22,080 --> 02:25:25,200 We never went to the highest when we didn't need to either. 2890 02:25:25,640 --> 02:25:29,560 But that slight buzz on his neck, it would kind of make him 2891 02:25:29,560 --> 02:25:32,360 twitch slightly, like ever, like side to side twitch ever so 2892 02:25:32,360 --> 02:25:34,000 slightly. And then he would just give it 2893 02:25:34,000 --> 02:25:36,200 up. He would not try and bite you 2894 02:25:36,200 --> 02:25:37,600 anymore. Like you would catch him in the 2895 02:25:37,600 --> 02:25:40,400 moment where he would try and snap, you'd press the the remote 2896 02:25:40,800 --> 02:25:44,360 and it would stop. A few weeks of doing it, he kind 2897 02:25:44,360 --> 02:25:47,920 of realised that he's not able to get aggressive anymore 2898 02:25:47,920 --> 02:25:50,200 because when he does this electric thing happens and 2899 02:25:50,200 --> 02:25:53,720 that's it. And so we kept it on him the 2900 02:25:53,720 --> 02:25:57,080 remaining months of training. And then at month 6, we took it 2901 02:25:57,080 --> 02:26:00,920 off and we went back to normal cola and he didn't do it anymore 2902 02:26:00,920 --> 02:26:03,360 after that. And a lot of people would 2903 02:26:03,360 --> 02:26:07,600 actually advise to keep it on for the sake of safety, just in 2904 02:26:07,600 --> 02:26:10,200 case kind of thing. If you need to use it, then it's 2905 02:26:10,200 --> 02:26:12,600 the, you know, kind of thought process. 2906 02:26:12,600 --> 02:26:16,480 But I didn't feel the need to keep it on anymore because I 2907 02:26:16,480 --> 02:26:20,520 felt that in his mind, he fully knew it's not, he's not able to 2908 02:26:20,520 --> 02:26:23,440 get aggressive anymore because in his mind, when I do, it 2909 02:26:23,560 --> 02:26:24,680 hurts. And so I'm not going to do it 2910 02:26:24,680 --> 02:26:28,800 anymore because it hurts me. That's the conclusion that we 2911 02:26:28,800 --> 02:26:31,960 came to. And to this day, years after, 2912 02:26:31,960 --> 02:26:37,240 he's still on a normal collar. He doesn't feel the need to do 2913 02:26:37,240 --> 02:26:39,560 anymore. And like, my assessment overall 2914 02:26:39,560 --> 02:26:43,960 was that there was some micro trigger that I couldn't pick up 2915 02:26:43,960 --> 02:26:46,760 on or no one else could see. Whatever, whatever it was 2916 02:26:46,760 --> 02:26:48,680 annoyed him and it made him bite. 2917 02:26:49,640 --> 02:26:52,680 Whether it was a shift of energy, whatever it was, the 2918 02:26:52,680 --> 02:26:54,920 wind blowing the wrong way, whatever it might have been, it 2919 02:26:54,920 --> 02:26:57,720 caused him to get aggressive and we needed to fix. 2920 02:26:57,720 --> 02:27:00,520 And he realised in that moment that actually it's a bit 2921 02:27:00,520 --> 02:27:03,160 frustrating and a bit painful for him when he does get 2922 02:27:03,160 --> 02:27:04,920 aggressive. So best not to. 2923 02:27:05,200 --> 02:27:07,960 And then he gave it up. And that that was the only time 2924 02:27:07,960 --> 02:27:12,880 that I've resort to aversion in any way, shape or form. 2925 02:27:14,240 --> 02:27:17,280 I've had it in rescues too. We've had some Tibetan mastiffs 2926 02:27:17,280 --> 02:27:21,120 that were like 8090 kilogramme, huge dogs that were aggressive 2927 02:27:21,120 --> 02:27:24,560 with other dogs. It wasn't my decision but the 2928 02:27:24,560 --> 02:27:28,560 charities at the time in Turkey they had prong collars as 2929 02:27:28,560 --> 02:27:34,040 standards for these breeds so you weren't allowed to use flat 2930 02:27:34,040 --> 02:27:38,000 collars for those breed specifically, especially if they 2931 02:27:38,000 --> 02:27:39,400 were aggressive towards over dogs. 2932 02:27:39,400 --> 02:27:42,280 But again, do you need them? No, not really. 2933 02:27:42,280 --> 02:27:46,000 I do believe that the effect that you create from a prong 2934 02:27:46,360 --> 02:27:49,720 could easily be changed and channelled into a flat collar, 2935 02:27:49,720 --> 02:27:52,400 where if it's underneath the chin of the dog, you can 2936 02:27:52,400 --> 02:27:58,560 redirect the head and cause some conditioning to lower the risk 2937 02:27:58,560 --> 02:28:01,040 of the dog being reacted to other dogs you know? 2938 02:28:04,520 --> 02:28:13,360 OK, the the final question I have for you actually 2, if 2939 02:28:13,360 --> 02:28:18,200 that's OK with you, just to end our end our interview, I would 2940 02:28:18,200 --> 02:28:24,120 like to know what you would say to people who believe or say 2941 02:28:24,200 --> 02:28:28,200 that you are contributing to the rescue crisis through being a 2942 02:28:28,200 --> 02:28:32,000 breeder? I mean, me myself, I'm, I know 2943 02:28:32,000 --> 02:28:36,520 that I'm not personally, so it doesn't really rub me the wrong 2944 02:28:36,520 --> 02:28:40,280 way, if that makes sense, when people say those sorts of 2945 02:28:40,280 --> 02:28:42,640 things. Do breeders contribute to the 2946 02:28:42,640 --> 02:28:44,640 shelter problem? Yeah. 2947 02:28:45,600 --> 02:28:47,560 You know, there wouldn't be a need for a shelter if there 2948 02:28:47,560 --> 02:28:50,320 wasn't a breeder, Albert. You know, chicken and egg 2949 02:28:50,320 --> 02:28:54,280 theory, which one came first? If there was an irresponsible 2950 02:28:54,280 --> 02:28:56,360 breeder, then there wouldn't be a need for a shelter, you know, 2951 02:28:56,360 --> 02:28:59,280 and if, if shelters are struggling, it's it's it's at 2952 02:28:59,280 --> 02:29:01,000 the expense of irresponsible breeders. 2953 02:29:02,800 --> 02:29:05,800 I do everything in my power to make sure that I don't 2954 02:29:05,800 --> 02:29:08,600 contribute anything. And as I've mentioned to you 2955 02:29:08,600 --> 02:29:12,800 before, money's never an object to me when it comes to getting 2956 02:29:12,800 --> 02:29:17,160 the dogs back to me. I will do whatever is necessary. 2957 02:29:17,160 --> 02:29:21,520 You know, I'll even, I'll go to whatever extent. 2958 02:29:21,520 --> 02:29:24,160 Even if it was the case when he started to hire a private jet to 2959 02:29:24,160 --> 02:29:27,720 bring a dog back here kind of thing, I would work tirelessly 2960 02:29:28,080 --> 02:29:30,800 to afford that because I would have to if I'm not rich. 2961 02:29:30,800 --> 02:29:36,800 But I wouldn't ever allow any of the dog that would came from my 2962 02:29:36,800 --> 02:29:41,600 breeding even spend a minute in a shelter as opposed to other 2963 02:29:41,600 --> 02:29:44,840 breeders where people say, oh, you know, it's not viable for me 2964 02:29:44,840 --> 02:29:48,800 or I can't do it, whatever, I'll make it work some way. 2965 02:29:49,600 --> 02:29:52,520 You know, at the end of that, I know that when a dog comes from 2966 02:29:52,520 --> 02:29:55,600 an owner, it's not going to be behaviour wise the way that my 2967 02:29:55,600 --> 02:29:57,760 dogs are because they've lived different life. 2968 02:29:58,400 --> 02:30:01,680 And I know that when I tell my owners set clear boundaries and 2969 02:30:01,680 --> 02:30:04,840 do this and do that, I know they don't follow everything that I 2970 02:30:04,840 --> 02:30:07,200 say, Twitty. I know that I have to work 2971 02:30:07,200 --> 02:30:11,120 really hard to get that dog understand that the dogs are 2972 02:30:11,120 --> 02:30:12,680 here. I know that for a fact. 2973 02:30:12,680 --> 02:30:16,440 And again, it's nothing that I won't do because I don't have 2974 02:30:16,680 --> 02:30:20,200 any other job or life commitment other than these guys. 2975 02:30:20,360 --> 02:30:25,400 So for me, it's not a problem. But do I understand that when 2976 02:30:25,400 --> 02:30:29,920 people say that breeders contribute to shelters 100%? 2977 02:30:30,160 --> 02:30:35,160 I get it with utmost certainty. But at the same time, is there 2978 02:30:35,160 --> 02:30:38,720 anything wrong with someone wanting a dog that doesn't have 2979 02:30:38,720 --> 02:30:40,600 any preconceived notions about life? 2980 02:30:41,400 --> 02:30:43,440 And people want to know everything about the dog in 2981 02:30:43,440 --> 02:30:45,920 terms of health, history, pedigree, whatever. 2982 02:30:46,240 --> 02:30:49,160 And they want to be completely reassured that they're getting a 2983 02:30:49,160 --> 02:30:52,320 good experience of the first time dog owner or first time 2984 02:30:52,320 --> 02:30:55,560 owner of the breed. Yeah, they have that right, you 2985 02:30:55,560 --> 02:30:57,480 know. Should everyone adopt? 2986 02:30:58,000 --> 02:31:01,560 No, because again, like I said before, it takes a particular 2987 02:31:01,560 --> 02:31:11,360 calibre of human, in my opinion, to find a, a good suitable dog 2988 02:31:11,560 --> 02:31:14,440 that fits into your lifestyle, if that makes sense. 2989 02:31:14,440 --> 02:31:22,080 But also, how exactly do you fix that problem yourself? 2990 02:31:22,080 --> 02:31:25,120 Because does that person have the means to get the right 2991 02:31:25,120 --> 02:31:28,000 training for that dog? Maybe yes, maybe no. 2992 02:31:28,560 --> 02:31:33,520 Does that person have the time and the energy to go through 2993 02:31:33,520 --> 02:31:36,320 that problem with that dog because it's a rescue and it has 2994 02:31:36,320 --> 02:31:38,240 an issue, whatever. You might be lucky enough to 2995 02:31:38,240 --> 02:31:41,440 have one of those ones where for no fault of its own, it's coming 2996 02:31:41,440 --> 02:31:43,800 to rescue whatever. But for the most part, they've 2997 02:31:43,800 --> 02:31:46,080 been abused in some way, shape or form, left abandoned 2998 02:31:46,080 --> 02:31:47,840 wherever, and they need a lot of work, you know? 2999 02:31:48,360 --> 02:31:52,760 So yeah, I do think that breeders in general do cause a 3000 02:31:52,760 --> 02:31:55,240 problem when it comes to contributing towards shelters. 3001 02:31:55,240 --> 02:31:58,880 But me personally, no, I don't. I don't think that are they. 3002 02:32:01,080 --> 02:32:04,880 Right, final question, what do you think we can learn from 3003 02:32:04,880 --> 02:32:09,760 dogs? I think we can learn patience as 3004 02:32:09,760 --> 02:32:12,480 a First off, like, again, I say this to everyone when it comes 3005 02:32:12,480 --> 02:32:16,040 to my dog training versus other people's dog training, I don't 3006 02:32:16,040 --> 02:32:21,560 want to cultivate an environment where you're relying on commands 3007 02:32:21,560 --> 02:32:25,080 or buzzwords or food or a toy to teach your dog something. 3008 02:32:25,080 --> 02:32:28,760 I want to cultivate an environment where your dog does 3009 02:32:29,280 --> 02:32:32,360 the right decision because it wholeheartedly believes that 3010 02:32:32,360 --> 02:32:37,080 that's the case. You know when a dog invites? 3011 02:32:37,080 --> 02:32:41,440 You to attack. Or to a fight in your mind, you 3012 02:32:41,440 --> 02:32:43,640 believe that it's better to follow me and to look at me for 3013 02:32:43,640 --> 02:32:46,600 guidance rather than engaging in that fight or responding in any 3014 02:32:46,600 --> 02:32:50,240 way you know? So patience is a big one for me 3015 02:32:50,320 --> 02:32:51,680 when it comes to what we can learn. 3016 02:32:52,360 --> 02:32:56,160 I'm I wasn't really famous for being patients, patients, 3017 02:32:56,160 --> 02:32:58,160 patients person in the beginning. 3018 02:32:58,880 --> 02:33:01,080 My dad taught me that for a lot of trial in there. 3019 02:33:01,080 --> 02:33:03,600 And I've always been that kid where it's like, well, I want it 3020 02:33:03,600 --> 02:33:04,560 to happen now. Why? 3021 02:33:04,560 --> 02:33:06,400 If it's not, then I'm going to throw a tantrum about it. 3022 02:33:06,400 --> 02:33:10,480 Kind of I've always been that kid, but through working with 3023 02:33:10,480 --> 02:33:13,360 dogs and like my dad telling me, if you want to work with these 3024 02:33:13,360 --> 02:33:15,720 breeds specifically to, you need to be patient. 3025 02:33:15,720 --> 02:33:19,920 And my dad teaching me that has been the greatest life lesson of 3026 02:33:19,920 --> 02:33:21,520 all. If it hasn't been for the dogs, 3027 02:33:21,520 --> 02:33:23,480 it's been a good character improvement for sure. 3028 02:33:23,480 --> 02:33:27,400 So patience first one, respect is another one. 3029 02:33:29,520 --> 02:33:32,840 It's a big thing for me because like I said to you before, we 3030 02:33:32,920 --> 02:33:37,080 we're so involved in this environment where we expect 3031 02:33:37,080 --> 02:33:40,200 things from a dog and like that the kind of gesture in our lives 3032 02:33:40,200 --> 02:33:44,520 and the entertainment, whatever. And it's like, no, you know, you 3033 02:33:44,520 --> 02:33:46,000 know what I mean. It's not the case at all. 3034 02:33:46,000 --> 02:33:47,480 This is a living and breathing thing. 3035 02:33:47,840 --> 02:33:49,840 It's a sentient being. You know what I mean? 3036 02:33:49,840 --> 02:33:55,200 Like you have to look at it from from this viewpoint where if it 3037 02:33:55,200 --> 02:33:58,560 doesn't want to pet you or be interested in you, then it 3038 02:33:58,560 --> 02:34:01,720 doesn't want to, you know, which is why people are often 3039 02:34:01,720 --> 02:34:03,520 confused. And they pull this face with me 3040 02:34:03,880 --> 02:34:05,840 where they say to me, can I pet your dog? 3041 02:34:05,840 --> 02:34:10,320 And I say if it wants to, you can see it in their eyes. 3042 02:34:10,320 --> 02:34:13,680 They're kind of trying to calculate what it means when I 3043 02:34:13,680 --> 02:34:15,840 say this. And it's like, get, you know, 3044 02:34:15,840 --> 02:34:18,320 lower your body. And if my dog gets up and wants 3045 02:34:18,320 --> 02:34:20,880 to interact with you, then cool. But if not, then don't stick 3046 02:34:20,880 --> 02:34:23,480 your hand and force it to interact, you know, because 3047 02:34:24,600 --> 02:34:27,680 yeah, I don't like that either. You know, when people like come 3048 02:34:27,680 --> 02:34:30,240 into my dog space and they go, hello, whatever my dog feels 3049 02:34:30,240 --> 02:34:31,680 it's need to get up and interact. 3050 02:34:31,680 --> 02:34:33,400 No, if it wants to, then it does. 3051 02:34:33,400 --> 02:34:36,320 And if it doesn't, then, you know, like the saying says, 3052 02:34:36,320 --> 02:34:38,520 let's sleep in. Dogs lie, you know, let them 3053 02:34:39,040 --> 02:34:40,760 sleep, let them do whatever they want to. 3054 02:34:40,760 --> 02:34:44,080 You know, don't interrupt me when I'm having a meal outside 3055 02:34:44,080 --> 02:34:46,720 or whatever, when my dog's sleeping and asked, oh, can I 3056 02:34:46,720 --> 02:34:49,440 pet your dog? Does she look like she wants to 3057 02:34:49,440 --> 02:34:52,880 be petted? No, let it be, you know, kind of 3058 02:34:52,880 --> 02:34:55,800 thing. But again, I've had times when 3059 02:34:55,800 --> 02:34:58,080 I'm at the bus stop and my dog is looking at someone's eyes and 3060 02:34:58,080 --> 02:35:01,240 wagging her tail like crazy and it's like she wants to say hi to 3061 02:35:01,240 --> 02:35:04,360 that person, you know. So if that person says can I pet 3062 02:35:04,360 --> 02:35:06,040 your dog, I will say it straight away. 3063 02:35:06,040 --> 02:35:09,720 You know, I think she wants to say hi to you more than you want 3064 02:35:09,720 --> 02:35:13,120 to say hi to her, you know. So it probably happened and I 3065 02:35:13,120 --> 02:35:17,160 let it happen as a result of it. But yeah, respect is the second 3066 02:35:17,200 --> 02:35:20,880 most important for me when it comes to that kind of thing. 3067 02:35:21,280 --> 02:35:25,440 The third one I would say is compassion because when it comes 3068 02:35:25,440 --> 02:35:27,840 to like learning about love is an emotion. 3069 02:35:27,840 --> 02:35:30,400 I really do believe that you end up learning love on a deeper 3070 02:35:30,400 --> 02:35:35,480 level when you have a dog. Maybe you do with your partner 3071 02:35:35,480 --> 02:35:38,800 or significant other, but I don't really know how to explain 3072 02:35:38,800 --> 02:35:42,240 it ever than the fact that there's times where you're on a 3073 02:35:42,240 --> 02:35:45,200 walk and you just share some eye contact and you can tell this 3074 02:35:45,200 --> 02:35:48,240 dog is just bursting with love for you in their eyes. 3075 02:35:48,240 --> 02:35:50,480 You know, you can see it and you're just so happy. 3076 02:35:50,480 --> 02:35:51,920 You don't know why, but you just are. 3077 02:35:51,920 --> 02:35:53,160 You know, you can just feel this. 3078 02:35:53,840 --> 02:35:56,720 I don't know. The leash is not something 3079 02:35:56,720 --> 02:35:58,920 physical anymore. It's actually like a translation 3080 02:35:58,920 --> 02:36:01,200 line between the both of you, kind of like an avatar. 3081 02:36:01,200 --> 02:36:04,600 When they like hook up their ponytail to the horse, you know, 3082 02:36:04,600 --> 02:36:06,880 and they start bonding with the animal, I feel like it's almost 3083 02:36:06,880 --> 02:36:09,840 the same thing. You know, when you grab that 3084 02:36:09,840 --> 02:36:11,800 lead and you put it on their collar or their harness, 3085 02:36:11,800 --> 02:36:14,800 whatever, and you go out for that walk, they feel something 3086 02:36:14,800 --> 02:36:16,840 from you and you feel something from them. 3087 02:36:16,840 --> 02:36:20,200 You know, suddenly whatever you felt 10 minutes before is 3088 02:36:20,200 --> 02:36:22,600 completely irrelevant. Or if you were sad before, 3089 02:36:22,800 --> 02:36:25,600 you're no longer sad. Whether you were anxious before, 3090 02:36:25,600 --> 02:36:26,840 you're not really anxious anymore. 3091 02:36:26,840 --> 02:36:28,920 I mean, that's something me personally, I've struggled with 3092 02:36:29,480 --> 02:36:31,880 quite a lot of just being overwhelmed in general and 3093 02:36:32,000 --> 02:36:34,720 suddenly adult walk just fix everything for me, you know? 3094 02:36:34,720 --> 02:36:38,720 But you end up having this unspoken love. 3095 02:36:38,840 --> 02:36:40,920 You can't express it. You don't even say it to them 3096 02:36:40,920 --> 02:36:42,360 half the time. You just feel it. 3097 02:36:42,360 --> 02:36:43,920 It just happened, you know what I mean? 3098 02:36:45,480 --> 02:36:47,120 And so it becomes. That way and that way. 3099 02:36:47,120 --> 02:36:49,320 That's why I say to you all the time, I don't know how people 3100 02:36:49,320 --> 02:36:51,040 live without dogs, you know, I don't. 3101 02:36:51,680 --> 02:36:55,480 Because for me it's, it's such a waste of a life to go through 3102 02:36:55,480 --> 02:36:58,680 these moments and go through all this whatever without them, you 3103 02:36:58,680 --> 02:37:00,760 know. And even when I went to 3104 02:37:00,760 --> 02:37:05,440 Lithuania, everyone was saying to me, you're crazy for packing 3105 02:37:05,440 --> 02:37:08,040 your life up in a van and travelling for four days with 3106 02:37:08,040 --> 02:37:09,560 your dogs. I wouldn't have that want to 3107 02:37:09,560 --> 02:37:11,640 have done it any other way really. 3108 02:37:13,040 --> 02:37:14,800 They weren't anxious. Neither was I. 3109 02:37:15,280 --> 02:37:17,920 Every time I looked behind me in the van, everyone was sleeping. 3110 02:37:18,160 --> 02:37:21,080 Every stop that I did, I explored a new country with 3111 02:37:21,080 --> 02:37:22,760 them, you know, and it was great. 3112 02:37:22,760 --> 02:37:25,000 As a result. I never felt bad about it in any 3113 02:37:25,000 --> 02:37:27,360 way. But yeah, in terms of what they 3114 02:37:27,360 --> 02:37:31,000 can teach me, top three, like I said, and it will always be the 3115 02:37:31,000 --> 02:37:32,360 same. I'll never change my answer in 3116 02:37:32,360 --> 02:37:34,880 any way. I always feel this emotional 3117 02:37:35,080 --> 02:37:38,400 about them. Patience, respect, compassion, 3118 02:37:38,400 --> 02:37:39,960 always. And it goes the same for 3119 02:37:39,960 --> 02:37:42,320 training, too. I don't believe you can do it in 3120 02:37:42,320 --> 02:37:46,000 any other way. Like there's one popple that's 3121 02:37:46,000 --> 02:37:48,480 on my Instagram that I share quite a lot because it's just 3122 02:37:48,480 --> 02:37:50,120 ridiculous how their story started. 3123 02:37:50,120 --> 02:37:55,400 But Poppy was aggressive towards the older adult dog that they 3124 02:37:55,400 --> 02:37:57,800 had. And the trainer came in and said 3125 02:37:58,240 --> 02:38:00,520 you need to treat them like barn animals and you need to keep 3126 02:38:00,520 --> 02:38:03,640 them separate from each other all the time because if they see 3127 02:38:03,640 --> 02:38:05,840 each other again, they're they will kill each other. 3128 02:38:06,400 --> 02:38:08,800 And there's no other way of doing it other than this. 3129 02:38:08,800 --> 02:38:11,600 Believe me, if there was a way they could be together and they 3130 02:38:11,600 --> 02:38:13,600 could live their life together, I would have I would have 3131 02:38:13,600 --> 02:38:18,040 figured it out by now. Within a month of training with 3132 02:38:18,040 --> 02:38:22,520 me, they were able to coexist together in the same room on a 3133 02:38:22,520 --> 02:38:26,880 civil basis, No play but sleeping together, eating 3134 02:38:26,880 --> 02:38:29,880 together, no problem. There are four or five months 3135 02:38:29,880 --> 02:38:32,560 and now and they have a bond that you would think that they 3136 02:38:32,560 --> 02:38:35,440 were, you know, loving each other for years, no problem. 3137 02:38:35,440 --> 02:38:39,280 And I can't believe that people approach dog training in such a 3138 02:38:39,280 --> 02:38:41,920 cold and cruel way. And it makes me think that maybe 3139 02:38:41,920 --> 02:38:48,000 they treat their own dogs the same, all cruel method and blows 3140 02:38:48,000 --> 02:38:50,680 my mind because the same way I love my dogs, I would love doing 3141 02:38:50,680 --> 02:38:53,280 earth to know who's a client of mine or fewer a client of mine. 3142 02:38:53,280 --> 02:38:56,400 And same goes for other people. I end up getting emotionally 3143 02:38:56,400 --> 02:39:00,000 attached and and viewing that dog as if it was my own dog. 3144 02:39:00,000 --> 02:39:04,160 And so every process of training, I will treat that dog 3145 02:39:04,160 --> 02:39:07,240 and owner with the same emotional state as I was for my 3146 02:39:07,240 --> 02:39:10,640 own dog. You know, I would never try to 3147 02:39:10,640 --> 02:39:13,880 push the dog into an emotional state where it can't handle it 3148 02:39:13,880 --> 02:39:17,120 just because I want the training to be done quicker in any way. 3149 02:39:17,440 --> 02:39:21,200 Or I wouldn't say try this without thinking or would it 3150 02:39:21,200 --> 02:39:23,400 work, whatever. I wouldn't set it up for failure 3151 02:39:23,400 --> 02:39:26,520 in that sense. But you need to have that 3152 02:39:26,520 --> 02:39:30,320 compassion and that warmth in you to train effectively, in my 3153 02:39:30,320 --> 02:39:33,280 opinion, as the behaviours. If you don't, then you're in the 3154 02:39:33,280 --> 02:39:36,200 wrong business for sure, because you're not thinking about the 3155 02:39:36,200 --> 02:39:38,600 welfare of the animal, you're not thinking about the longevity 3156 02:39:38,600 --> 02:39:40,480 effect of that person's life with that dog. 3157 02:39:41,600 --> 02:39:43,080 It's not worth doing in my opinion. 3158 02:39:44,840 --> 02:39:46,640 But yeah. So if somebody said to you 3159 02:39:46,640 --> 02:39:50,280 where's your proof that it's possible with the extreme cases, 3160 02:39:50,280 --> 02:39:52,520 you know, I know that you mentioned before there was only 3161 02:39:52,520 --> 02:39:55,600 one occasion where you have used an electric collar. 3162 02:39:56,280 --> 02:39:59,480 Yeah. But yeah, typically I've heard 3163 02:39:59,480 --> 02:40:02,520 the argument from balance trainers basically saying like, 3164 02:40:02,840 --> 02:40:05,120 show me, show me that it's possible. 3165 02:40:07,320 --> 02:40:11,280 What to have a extremely aggressive case that's been 3166 02:40:11,280 --> 02:40:13,840 solved without an E colour, without reversing methods? 3167 02:40:14,400 --> 02:40:17,080 My Instagram is more than proof of that. 3168 02:40:17,360 --> 02:40:21,720 I've had puppies attacking adult dogs, I've had adult dogs 3169 02:40:21,720 --> 02:40:24,720 attacking humans, I've had Huskies who have attacked humans 3170 02:40:24,720 --> 02:40:28,680 and been on court orders by the police, later on rehabilitated, 3171 02:40:28,680 --> 02:40:31,160 going into train stations, going into public places, whatever. 3172 02:40:31,640 --> 02:40:38,000 I have had, I would say 10 * 100 times more cases of dogs being 3173 02:40:38,600 --> 02:40:42,440 rehabilitated through patience and through compassion with no 3174 02:40:42,440 --> 02:40:46,160 use of aversive tools and one occasion where aversive tools 3175 02:40:46,160 --> 02:40:49,720 have worked. So for me in the space of like 3176 02:40:50,560 --> 02:40:53,200 6-7 years that I've been working, for me to say I've only 3177 02:40:53,200 --> 02:40:55,840 used it once and the only one time it's worked, that's it. 3178 02:40:55,840 --> 02:40:57,960 And other times I've had no need for it. 3179 02:40:59,080 --> 02:41:00,920 For me that's proof enough and everything too is. 3180 02:41:01,160 --> 02:41:05,160 Don't forget balance trainers aren't even open to seeing the 3181 02:41:05,160 --> 02:41:06,720 proof. They say show me whatever, but 3182 02:41:06,720 --> 02:41:10,840 then when you do show them, they try to find every single excuse 3183 02:41:10,840 --> 02:41:15,000 to bite at that thought process. Or to go for that moment in 3184 02:41:15,000 --> 02:41:16,480 time. And so, but it was like this and 3185 02:41:16,480 --> 02:41:18,160 it wasn't like that. And if it was like this, then it 3186 02:41:18,160 --> 02:41:19,440 would be different, whatever. And it's like. 3187 02:41:19,880 --> 02:41:22,640 If you're going into that route and ignoring the blind evidence 3188 02:41:22,640 --> 02:41:25,560 that's being shown in front of you, I can make the same 3189 02:41:25,560 --> 02:41:27,760 argument for you. I could say, oh, but that's only 3190 02:41:27,760 --> 02:41:30,880 being done in this specific setting, in this, not whatever. 3191 02:41:31,080 --> 02:41:34,200 I could pick apart your whole logic too and do the same thing 3192 02:41:34,200 --> 02:41:35,800 that you're doing to me, for example. 3193 02:41:36,000 --> 02:41:40,000 But again, there's so many people using E collars for the 3194 02:41:40,000 --> 02:41:44,280 most stupid things as basic as healing in a street, why? 3195 02:41:45,040 --> 02:41:49,680 You know what you know, or off leash walking in in a woodland 3196 02:41:49,680 --> 02:41:50,840 area. Again, why? 3197 02:41:51,760 --> 02:41:56,320 Why I I would like to know because if it's for cases where 3198 02:41:56,320 --> 02:41:59,480 I don't know, you have an Akita and you live in Cornwall and 3199 02:41:59,480 --> 02:42:04,080 it's just cows all over your house on fence and you have that 3200 02:42:04,080 --> 02:42:06,920 kind of dog, then I would not understand. 3201 02:42:06,920 --> 02:42:09,680 But I would. It would somewhat justify the 3202 02:42:09,680 --> 02:42:11,960 reasoning of why you've done it, because you have a dog that 3203 02:42:11,960 --> 02:42:14,760 could potentially hurt cattle, whatever. 3204 02:42:15,360 --> 02:42:18,560 Yeah, Yeah. And a farmer may just take that 3205 02:42:18,560 --> 02:42:20,480 decision into his own hands and shoot your dog. 3206 02:42:20,480 --> 02:42:22,480 I kind of understand that to some extent. 3207 02:42:22,480 --> 02:42:25,760 But if you live in London or whatever, or you live in like a 3208 02:42:25,760 --> 02:42:28,520 more urban setting and you're just using an E collar to make 3209 02:42:28,520 --> 02:42:31,680 your dog heal down the street, whatever, why? 3210 02:42:33,120 --> 02:42:34,760 You know, and I see this all the time. 3211 02:42:34,760 --> 02:42:38,840 Like it's so funny because now you've mentioned it, like I have 3212 02:42:38,840 --> 02:42:41,480 one client who messaged me a year ago basically saying I have 3213 02:42:41,480 --> 02:42:43,200 an Akita. She pulls like crazy. 3214 02:42:43,280 --> 02:42:46,840 My life's a misery. My, my wrists are aching all the 3215 02:42:46,840 --> 02:42:48,480 time. And I really feel like I'm 3216 02:42:48,480 --> 02:42:52,360 getting like tennis elbow at 28 and it shouldn't be happening 3217 02:42:52,360 --> 02:42:55,280 and I'm doing something wrong. Could you possibly help me? 3218 02:42:55,280 --> 02:42:57,360 And I said sure, gave him the prices. 3219 02:42:57,360 --> 02:43:00,560 He told me that my courses were out of his price range and he 3220 02:43:00,560 --> 02:43:03,240 would have to save up and hit me up later on. 3221 02:43:03,280 --> 02:43:04,960 And I said no problem, that's fine. 3222 02:43:06,040 --> 02:43:09,400 A year after that message he said that he wants to be he's in 3223 02:43:09,400 --> 02:43:11,960 the process of becoming a trainer and he wants to know 3224 02:43:11,960 --> 02:43:14,840 about my business model because he wants to do something similar 3225 02:43:14,840 --> 02:43:17,240 where he helps spits breeds specifically. 3226 02:43:18,400 --> 02:43:22,960 And I told him the Academy had an accreditation course. 3227 02:43:23,360 --> 02:43:26,000 It's a three-year course similar to what universities do. 3228 02:43:26,000 --> 02:43:30,440 And I teach you everything from A to D Wasn't interested in 3229 02:43:30,440 --> 02:43:32,120 that. He just wanted free advice on 3230 02:43:32,360 --> 02:43:34,400 how I do my business, how I do everything. 3231 02:43:34,840 --> 02:43:38,160 And I told him that I wouldn't really be open to sharing how I 3232 02:43:38,160 --> 02:43:41,320 do things for free. It's not something that I want 3233 02:43:41,320 --> 02:43:42,760 to do. I paid a lot of money for my 3234 02:43:42,760 --> 02:43:45,840 education, so should you. And that was my argument. 3235 02:43:47,120 --> 02:43:52,120 So we left it like that in six months, amazingly, he became a 3236 02:43:52,120 --> 02:43:56,040 master behaviourist somehow and he is now advertising that he's 3237 02:43:56,040 --> 02:44:00,480 a specialist because he has an Akita with an E collar that can 3238 02:44:00,480 --> 02:44:03,600 heal perfectly and can focus on him super well. 3239 02:44:04,120 --> 02:44:07,640 You know, from what I've heard from people, he can't even keep 3240 02:44:07,640 --> 02:44:09,360 free clients. So it's kind of good that he 3241 02:44:09,360 --> 02:44:12,600 can't really get many clients because, again, the training 3242 02:44:12,600 --> 02:44:16,040 methods are insane because you watch some of his videos and 3243 02:44:16,040 --> 02:44:18,560 he's kneeing a German shepherd in the face trying to make him 3244 02:44:18,560 --> 02:44:23,040 stop attacking him. Other videos, he is grabbing a 3245 02:44:23,040 --> 02:44:26,240 puppy and slamming him onto a tarmac trying to tell him off to 3246 02:44:26,240 --> 02:44:28,200 not bite him. Why? 3247 02:44:29,000 --> 02:44:33,400 Why, you know, makes no sense. And these people are willingly 3248 02:44:33,640 --> 02:44:36,720 falling into the trap of free training because they can't 3249 02:44:36,720 --> 02:44:38,920 afford it, or maybe they don't want to pay for training. 3250 02:44:39,200 --> 02:44:41,400 And actually all they're doing is traumatising their dog. 3251 02:44:41,760 --> 02:44:44,280 And they'll come to someone like me or someone similar to me 3252 02:44:44,280 --> 02:44:47,640 later on saying that they had this experience and it's made an 3253 02:44:47,640 --> 02:44:50,760 impact on their dog. And now we're working between 3254 02:44:50,760 --> 02:44:54,560 six months to a year to undo the trauma in the beginning, and 3255 02:44:54,560 --> 02:44:58,600 then after that, working another six months to a year to teach 3256 02:44:58,600 --> 02:45:01,320 the dog new behaviours, new foundations, new everything. 3257 02:45:02,200 --> 02:45:08,760 So yeah, it's crazy. It seems so polarising at the 3258 02:45:08,760 --> 02:45:12,040 moment I I wish there was a way for people to see each other's 3259 02:45:12,040 --> 02:45:17,400 perspectives and kind of find a humane middle ground, but I 3260 02:45:17,400 --> 02:45:20,160 can't see that happening anytime soon. 3261 02:45:21,200 --> 02:45:23,680 Which is a shame, really, because in the meantime, dogs 3262 02:45:23,680 --> 02:45:25,680 are suffering. No 100. 3263 02:45:25,680 --> 02:45:28,920 Percent anyways I will. The middle line is so tough to 3264 02:45:28,920 --> 02:45:33,800 reach because the problem is, is that people like me don't want 3265 02:45:33,800 --> 02:45:36,720 to find a mid ground with people like that because even 3266 02:45:37,200 --> 02:45:40,920 borderline hurting a dog is, is super wrong in my ideals, you 3267 02:45:40,920 --> 02:45:43,960 know, and the way I feel and everything like I could never do 3268 02:45:44,400 --> 02:45:48,800 half aversive or 5% aversive or even 1% aversive. 3269 02:45:48,800 --> 02:45:52,040 I wouldn't be open to it, you know, like in any way because 3270 02:45:52,040 --> 02:45:55,440 I've had too much case studies of dogs that have been 3271 02:45:55,440 --> 02:45:58,480 rehabilitated the way that I've been taught, the way that I'm 3272 02:45:58,480 --> 02:46:03,760 doing it now through R9 Plus and like punishment, freebase 3273 02:46:03,760 --> 02:46:07,040 training, stuff like that. Too many success stories from 3274 02:46:07,040 --> 02:46:11,880 that method to even listen to how that could be done that way, 3275 02:46:12,000 --> 02:46:15,000 you know, whatever. I've not had enough experiences 3276 02:46:15,000 --> 02:46:17,160 where the aversiveness has worked, so therefore I don't 3277 02:46:17,160 --> 02:46:19,840 believe in it. But at the same time, aversive 3278 02:46:19,840 --> 02:46:23,360 trainers or balance trainers will never incorporate enough 3279 02:46:23,360 --> 02:46:27,640 positivity in their training to make it balanced in any way. 3280 02:46:27,640 --> 02:46:29,440 And that's the funny part because you look at balanced 3281 02:46:29,440 --> 02:46:31,240 trainers and there's not much balance going on. 3282 02:46:32,080 --> 02:46:35,800 You know, it's the irony in the name. 3283 02:46:35,800 --> 02:46:38,720 And like a lot of the people who have companies that are called 3284 02:46:38,720 --> 02:46:43,160 the letter K and then the number 9 are in the red flag community, 3285 02:46:43,160 --> 02:46:46,720 in my opinion of people who do that aversive training most of 3286 02:46:46,720 --> 02:46:50,280 the time. You know, I would advise people 3287 02:46:50,280 --> 02:46:55,160 to look heavily when they're researching pain on academies, 3288 02:46:55,440 --> 02:46:59,840 how it's spelt, how it looks, you know, because too many 3289 02:46:59,840 --> 02:47:03,200 people are in that black hoodie with the van with all the 3290 02:47:03,200 --> 02:47:07,280 gimmicks and everything with a German shepherd or a German 3291 02:47:07,280 --> 02:47:09,960 shepherd, whatever, or even an I keep the like that climb for 3292 02:47:09,960 --> 02:47:13,440 mine that I mentioned E cola training all the way. 3293 02:47:14,200 --> 02:47:18,120 And that's it, you know, nothing more, nothing less, just 3294 02:47:18,120 --> 02:47:21,920 straight up punishment. Tools need to show the dog who's 3295 02:47:21,920 --> 02:47:23,080 boss. You know, if your dog's not 3296 02:47:23,080 --> 02:47:25,360 listening to you, then you should smack it on its nose. 3297 02:47:25,800 --> 02:47:28,000 If your dog is not paying attention to you, prod him in 3298 02:47:28,000 --> 02:47:29,480 the neck until he looks back at you. 3299 02:47:30,240 --> 02:47:34,080 What's the point? You know, what are we really 3300 02:47:34,080 --> 02:47:37,760 achieving here? You know, if I don't know if you 3301 02:47:37,760 --> 02:47:42,240 had a child, for example, and the, the child came back from 3302 02:47:42,240 --> 02:47:44,760 school and said, you know, my teacher kept prodding me in the 3303 02:47:44,760 --> 02:47:47,560 neck until I paid attention in class because I was playing with 3304 02:47:47,560 --> 02:47:49,600 my friends or whatever, you would lose it. 3305 02:47:49,600 --> 02:47:51,520 You know, you would March down there and be like, what the hell 3306 02:47:51,520 --> 02:47:53,880 did you do to my kid? Like how dare you even put a 3307 02:47:53,880 --> 02:47:55,160 finger? On my child, you know, you would 3308 02:47:55,160 --> 02:48:00,000 be so like full of rage, you know, But for some awkward 3309 02:48:00,000 --> 02:48:01,880 reason, when you do it to a dog, it's completely fine. 3310 02:48:01,880 --> 02:48:06,200 It's it's it's it's how do you put it? 3311 02:48:07,360 --> 02:48:10,240 It's a measure that must be taken in order to to cultivate 3312 02:48:10,240 --> 02:48:12,040 that appropriate level of attention. 3313 02:48:12,040 --> 02:48:15,280 And it's like, yeah, because holding the treat or doing 3314 02:48:15,280 --> 02:48:17,520 something else to. Hold. 3315 02:48:17,680 --> 02:48:21,760 The gaze of that dog is so far out of imagination. 3316 02:48:22,120 --> 02:48:26,400 What we actually need to do is smack, prod, hit that, whatever 3317 02:48:26,840 --> 02:48:29,520 to do that, you know, we there's no way you can do it through 3318 02:48:30,600 --> 02:48:33,920 through, I don't know, normal hold or anything else whatever 3319 02:48:33,920 --> 02:48:37,520 or even a clicker at the at the worst part, you know, that would 3320 02:48:37,520 --> 02:48:39,400 be impossible for these people to comprehend. 3321 02:48:39,400 --> 02:48:43,520 You need to resort to physical violence instead, you know. 3322 02:48:44,480 --> 02:48:46,280 Yeah. So, so basically, are you 3323 02:48:46,280 --> 02:48:50,040 saying, are you saying that it's a lack of imagination, a lack of 3324 02:48:50,040 --> 02:48:54,520 tolerance, patience, creativity? I do believe that's the case 3325 02:48:54,520 --> 02:48:57,600 because when I see someone who brags about their dog being off 3326 02:48:57,600 --> 02:49:01,360 leash on on an E collar, for example, and they say, oh, you 3327 02:49:01,360 --> 02:49:03,960 know, like I can have them off leash anywhere. 3328 02:49:04,920 --> 02:49:07,120 You meet people like that and you talk to them and then you 3329 02:49:07,120 --> 02:49:10,080 ask about when they're on the lead or you, you realise in the 3330 02:49:10,080 --> 02:49:12,960 moment you've never seen the dog on the lead, you know, most of 3331 02:49:12,960 --> 02:49:15,240 the time. And they'll make these excuses 3332 02:49:15,240 --> 02:49:16,960 like, oh, I like my dog to have its freedom. 3333 02:49:16,960 --> 02:49:19,640 And I like the dog, the fact that it has boundaries when it 3334 02:49:19,640 --> 02:49:21,400 comes to his freedom. And he understands that when I 3335 02:49:21,400 --> 02:49:22,880 want him back, I want him back. Whatever. 3336 02:49:23,680 --> 02:49:25,720 OK. But at some point you're going 3337 02:49:25,720 --> 02:49:29,640 to have to put it on a lead, you know, at some point that gimmick 3338 02:49:29,640 --> 02:49:31,000 will end. You know what I mean? 3339 02:49:31,000 --> 02:49:35,200 Like if you go to a different country, any European country 3340 02:49:35,440 --> 02:49:39,560 and you walk down a town road or a busy road or any type of urban 3341 02:49:39,560 --> 02:49:42,560 environment where there's buildings, people, whatever, not 3342 02:49:42,560 --> 02:49:46,160 like where it's rural out here kind of thing, you will have to 3343 02:49:46,160 --> 02:49:47,920 put that dog in a lead. You will have to. 3344 02:49:47,920 --> 02:49:49,640 Someone will stop you. You will get charged for it. 3345 02:49:49,640 --> 02:49:51,600 Police will. Give you a hard time for it. 3346 02:49:51,600 --> 02:49:53,800 Public will give you a hard time for it. 3347 02:49:53,800 --> 02:49:55,680 You'll have to. And if you can't walk it on a 3348 02:49:55,680 --> 02:49:57,520 lead, then what's the point for me? 3349 02:49:57,520 --> 02:50:00,720 Like there's no school behind it in any way. 3350 02:50:01,120 --> 02:50:04,240 The fact that this dog is able to be off the leash everywhere, 3351 02:50:04,320 --> 02:50:05,920 you know, what's the need for it? 3352 02:50:06,280 --> 02:50:10,040 Say for example, I'm at a train station and I don't know, my dog 3353 02:50:10,040 --> 02:50:11,800 gets a bit too curious and jumps on the tracks. 3354 02:50:11,800 --> 02:50:16,040 What am I supposed to do if it has an E cold? 3355 02:50:16,040 --> 02:50:18,640 Or even if it doesn't, I'm still screwed at that point, it's live 3356 02:50:18,640 --> 02:50:21,160 electricity. I can't jump in and save my dog. 3357 02:50:22,520 --> 02:50:23,840 And if it. Already has an electric 3358 02:50:23,840 --> 02:50:25,840 component on its collar. And then it. 3359 02:50:25,840 --> 02:50:28,800 Starts to get electrocuted. It's definitely dying. 3360 02:50:28,960 --> 02:50:32,880 It's not surviving that. So again, all these other 3361 02:50:33,000 --> 02:50:35,760 external parameters that people don't consider and think about 3362 02:50:35,760 --> 02:50:39,680 just because they're too impatient to just teach the dog 3363 02:50:39,680 --> 02:50:43,000 how to heal on a static leash. And they've been. 3364 02:50:43,000 --> 02:50:44,760 Pulled a few. Times and now they've lost their 3365 02:50:44,760 --> 02:50:48,280 patience. You know my wife is 5253 3366 02:50:48,280 --> 02:50:52,320 kilogrammes. She can walk six dogs that in 3367 02:50:52,320 --> 02:50:55,640 total outweigh her. And it's not about her strength 3368 02:50:55,640 --> 02:50:58,240 or anything like that. It's the way she communicates 3369 02:50:58,240 --> 02:51:01,880 with them and the way she's energy wise asserts her 3370 02:51:01,880 --> 02:51:03,600 authority in that moment in time. 3371 02:51:03,840 --> 02:51:07,680 You know, they know not to pull her around or not to do anything 3372 02:51:07,680 --> 02:51:09,560 out of the ordinary. They know when we're walking, 3373 02:51:09,560 --> 02:51:11,520 we're walking. We don't play with other dogs. 3374 02:51:11,880 --> 02:51:15,360 We don't lunge and do whatever. We go for a walk on our normal 3375 02:51:15,360 --> 02:51:18,120 route and then we come home. When we come home, we play with 3376 02:51:18,120 --> 02:51:21,040 each other. That's it, nothing more to be 3377 02:51:21,040 --> 02:51:22,880 settled on. You know, I haven't done that 3378 02:51:22,880 --> 02:51:25,320 with an E colour in any way. It's all been static leashes. 3379 02:51:25,400 --> 02:51:28,520 That's it. You know, I have slip leads at 3380 02:51:28,520 --> 02:51:33,000 times, I have slip leads at times where I'm in a rush and I 3381 02:51:33,000 --> 02:51:35,520 need to walk a dog really quickly just to whack it on and 3382 02:51:35,520 --> 02:51:39,160 walk out because sometimes we'll groom them and we'll take the 3383 02:51:39,160 --> 02:51:41,160 collars off. So sometimes I can't find the 3384 02:51:41,160 --> 02:51:44,160 collar, whatever. And I'll use a slip leach and 3385 02:51:44,160 --> 02:51:46,880 again, not for adversive purposes just because it's a bit 3386 02:51:46,880 --> 02:51:48,680 easier to use. But other than that, nothing 3387 02:51:48,680 --> 02:51:52,800 more than that really. But it blows my mind that people 3388 02:51:52,800 --> 02:51:55,920 have like a 15 week old puppy and it's already on a prong or 3389 02:51:55,920 --> 02:51:58,400 an E colour just because it needs to learn the rules of life 3390 02:51:58,400 --> 02:51:59,800 or whatever. It's like, what do you mean? 3391 02:52:00,560 --> 02:52:02,760 You know, you're destroying the spirit of that dog. 3392 02:52:02,760 --> 02:52:06,040 That dog is not going to be as whimsical as, I don't know, free 3393 02:52:06,040 --> 02:52:09,160 spirited in any way because all it's learning is pain, pain, 3394 02:52:09,160 --> 02:52:12,400 pain. I even changed my opinions on 3395 02:52:12,400 --> 02:52:15,760 like some St dog charities like I used to be so for them. 3396 02:52:16,440 --> 02:52:19,400 And now I'm kind of borderline against it because I was 3397 02:52:19,400 --> 02:52:22,120 thinking about it like so hard in my head and I was like, well, 3398 02:52:22,120 --> 02:52:24,320 hang on a minute. Let's just look at it from this 3399 02:52:24,320 --> 02:52:27,280 perspective. And this dog is in Romania, in 3400 02:52:27,280 --> 02:52:32,760 rural, like rural area Romania. And his life is, he wakes up, he 3401 02:52:32,760 --> 02:52:36,080 goes to some random butcher that he's known for a few years now, 3402 02:52:36,520 --> 02:52:38,920 eats some meat because the butcher feels bad for him. 3403 02:52:39,360 --> 02:52:41,880 And then he goes to sleep in a cave later on or I don't know, 3404 02:52:41,880 --> 02:52:45,840 somewhere else that he find that he has a few friends that he 3405 02:52:45,840 --> 02:52:48,120 gets on with, a few friends that he doesn't get on with. 3406 02:52:48,120 --> 02:52:50,680 He stays away from them. Generally speaking, he has a 3407 02:52:50,680 --> 02:52:53,240 pretty free outgoing lifestyle, no problem. 3408 02:52:53,600 --> 02:52:55,920 And because it's a rural area, he kind of knows where he's 3409 02:52:55,920 --> 02:52:57,040 living, where he's going, whatever. 3410 02:52:57,640 --> 02:53:01,040 Out of nowhere, some random charity worker takes this dog 3411 02:53:01,040 --> 02:53:04,680 because he wants to make money, puts it in a shelter where he's 3412 02:53:04,680 --> 02:53:07,160 already anxious because he's never been in a crate or a cage 3413 02:53:07,160 --> 02:53:09,960 before. And then he's carted off to 3414 02:53:09,960 --> 02:53:13,440 Tower Hamlets in London. He's called George, He has this 3415 02:53:13,440 --> 02:53:15,760 collar on him, he's being dragged around on a leash. 3416 02:53:16,360 --> 02:53:20,320 There's this bus, taxi, car, child, whatever all around them. 3417 02:53:20,560 --> 02:53:22,840 And he's never seen any of this before. 3418 02:53:23,320 --> 02:53:26,400 And he's expected to behave. And people are already giving 3419 02:53:26,400 --> 02:53:29,560 him a lot of pressure, a lot of remarks, whatever, because he's 3420 02:53:29,560 --> 02:53:32,040 not behaving. And then me as a behaviour, 3421 02:53:32,040 --> 02:53:35,560 suddenly I'm, I'm expected to make this dog OK with all this 3422 02:53:35,560 --> 02:53:38,880 stuff, you know, in a short space of time as well. 3423 02:53:38,880 --> 02:53:42,640 Because again, no one wants, no one wants to wait for that 3424 02:53:42,640 --> 02:53:44,640 transformation. People just want result, result, 3425 02:53:44,640 --> 02:53:46,240 result, result. That's it. 3426 02:53:48,720 --> 02:53:52,640 That's tragic. That's really tragic. 100%, you 3427 02:53:52,640 --> 02:53:55,160 know, but yeah. Right. 3428 02:53:55,160 --> 02:53:56,920 Well, thank you so much for your time. 3429 02:53:56,920 --> 02:54:00,160 It's been really insightful speaking with you and listening 3430 02:54:00,160 --> 02:54:01,760 to you. I am. 3431 02:54:02,040 --> 02:54:04,480 I'm very grateful for your time. So thank you very much. 3432 02:54:04,840 --> 02:54:07,200 No problem at all. I'm grateful for your time too. 3433 02:54:07,720 --> 02:54:09,200 I. Wish you a good night. 3434 02:54:09,400 --> 02:54:12,320 And yeah, good rest of your weekend. 3435 02:54:13,680 --> 02:54:16,120 Thank you and you too will speak again soon. 3436 02:54:16,640 --> 02:54:18,400 You do not plan to belly wraps for me. 3437 02:54:18,480 --> 02:54:22,480 And yeah, talk to you soon. I will do, I will do. 3438 02:54:22,560 --> 02:54:23,520 Take care. Bye. 3439 02:54:23,760 --> 02:54:23,920 Bye.