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Welcome to Dear Social worker. 
I am your host, Lisa Ran, and I 

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am proud today to be bringing 
you our next episode from the 

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sunny place of Morocco. 
And I am joined by Mama, Lisa 

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Ran today and we're going to 
have a special episode today. 

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So hi Mum. 
Hi, Lisa. 

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Ran. 
Oh Lord, you already know it's 

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trouble. 
Why couldn't you just say hello?

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Hi, Liz. 
That's that's usually how I say 

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hi, Liz. 
You're right, Liz. 

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How are you feeling today, Liz? 
Did you sleep well, Liz? 

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Oh, welcome to Dear Social Work.
It's your first time being on 

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the podcast. 
It's been going for nearly three

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years. 
Wow, you've neglected me. 

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Haven't. 
You. 

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Oh my God. 
You've just neglected me. 

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Put me at the bottom of the 
pile. 

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I'm not worthy of an interview. 
What, Only because you've got no

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choice but to sit in front of me
on the? 

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Holiday, don't believe, don't 
don't believe I to put me on 

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your podcast. 
Don't believe what is being said

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guys. 
Don't believe it? 

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You'll have to excuse all of the
background noise. 

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We'll just let the domestics. 
Going on isn't. 

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There, Yeah, I mean domestic 
cleaning, not domestics as in 

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domestics you are talking to 
social worker. 

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But if you have to clarify these
things, otherwise their radar 

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will go right up there. 
They're on holiday in Morocco 

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and there's domestics, they're 
witnessing domestic. 

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Can't even have a holiday 
without safeguarding issues. 

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I have to come a little birdie 
at the UK embassy. 

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Come a little birdie. 
So we are surrounded by birds at

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the moment who are, it's very 
brave look, eating the crumbs 

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from our breakfast. 
Eating the crumbs that we've 

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given them. 
Given them, yes. 

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Not that we eat and leave 
crumbs. 

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Let's get to the interview. 
Speak for yourself. 

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My side at my side of the table 
screen. 

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I think your side has got a few 
crumb. 

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Look there, there, there. 
I can't. 

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That's just crumbs. 
I'm just going to point out, 

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guys, because you can't see what
I can see. 

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What I can see is that you've 
got robot pieces of bread. 

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Go on with. 
Me. 

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Go on. 
I know you've got to come back. 

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We've got. 
We have rolled up. 

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Pieces of bread we I was, I was.
Directed to the station of the 

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bread rolls and told to bring as
many bed rolls as possible. 

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And butter. 
I can neither confirm or deny 

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that. 
And I have brought a few bread 

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rolls. 
Actually, no, there's four, 

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there's four, there's four. 
And lots of butter. 3 for you, 1

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for me. 
Yeah, of course. 

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So the reason why I thought I 
would have you on the podcast 

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today is just to get a bit of 
insight from you about what it's

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like being a close family member
of someone who is a social 

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worker. 
Being that you are not from the 

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social work world. 
I know when I felt, in fact, let

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me ask you this, what was your 
thoughts when I first said, you 

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know something, I'm going to go 
and complete my masters in 

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social work? 
I was very happy he was. 

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I was very happy. 
I thought you'd have gone for a 

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PhD so I could call you Doctor 
Lisa. 

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They're still timed. 
They're. 

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Still timed. 
That's very true. 

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No, I was very happy. 
I thought it was a very good 

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positive move. 
And anything, you know, what 

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we're like in our culture, 
anything educational cannot be a

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bad thing. 
So you wouldn't get no 

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complaints from me? 
Yes, I'd I'd pack you off. 

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But you virtually did. 
Come on, come on, let's go. 

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Let's go. 
You can't change your mind now. 

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Did you have any insight into 
what that career would be about?

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Not really. 
Really, because I hadn't really 

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known or had any contact with 
social work, social workers. 

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So I, I didn't really have any 
idea. 

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I knew you'd be doing something 
positive and good for the 

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community, but I I didn't have 
any idea of the extent of the 

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challenges that you would face. 
What was your what is your first

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memory of the challenges that I 
faced? 

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I mean your training was very 
good. 

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You was you. 
You always talk very positively 

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about your training. 
There are obviously issues that 

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came up in terms of what you had
to deal with, either with 

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families or siblings, siblings 
or families, some of those kind 

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of challenges, but I just saw it
as part and parcel of the 

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course, really. 
I didn't. 

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I thought that's what you signed
up for. 

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You may not have realized the 
extent of it, but that's exactly

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what you signed up for. 
Very demanding, very demanding 

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emotionally and physically, and 
you had to travel quite a long 

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way as well. 
Yeah, when I first, yeah. 

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So I lived in Nottingham for two
years to do the training and 

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then my first post was. 
Leicester. 

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Leicestershire and I was, you 
know, at the time living well 

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over an hour away. 
So that that was really taxing. 

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I remember that. 
But I had a really good manager.

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Yeah, really, really good 
manager. 

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Sit in contact with them now. 
And you had great training. 

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I had great training. 
And having the best of training 

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is so important at the outset 
because then a lot of the 

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challenges that you face as you 
kind of move through your 

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career, you'll have a good idea 
how to deal with them. 

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Yeah, because you have the 
training, you've had the, you've

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been exposed to whatever that 
challenge is, and your training 

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automatically kicks in when 
you're in that sort of 

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challenging environment. 11 
memory I had of you was saying 

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to me, I was saying we'll have 
to do a home visit and give that

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back to you. 
Me, I did a whole busy and 

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you're like, does that mean 
you're going into people's 

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houses? 
Yeah, That's that's you're like 

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you're going on your own. 
Yes, I'm going like on another 

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own. 
So it's like, let me get this 

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straight. 
You've got to go into people's 

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houses that you don't know. 
In a city that you don't know 

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and be faced with all kind of 
unknowns, let's just say no. 

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That was very worrying for me. 
And it, it's it, it always 

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remain worrying for me. 
Just the idea of you as a single

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female. 
Sometimes you did have someone 

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with you, whether it's a trainee
or someone else, depending on 

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what the challenge was. 
But it was always a concern to 

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me because you do hear of these 
stories of social workers been 

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harmed going into environments 
where people don't really want 

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them to be there. 
And as much as you go with your 

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professional hat on with the 
best of intentions, whoever you 

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go to see may not see you as 
being with the best of 

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intentions. 
And yeah, that, that's always 

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worrying. 
I think it'll be worrying for 

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anyone, whether you're a mother 
or not. 

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What advice would you give to 
someone who had the same or has 

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the same worries? 
Same worries as me. 

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Yeah. 
I'm not sure I could give them 

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any advice, to be honest. 
I think you've just got to have 

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faith. 
You've got to have faith and 

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make sure you know who all the 
managers are. 

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The managers are. 
You've got their telephone 

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numbers. 
So if anything happened to you, 

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pick me. 
You know exactly who to contact.

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You've got to make sure, yeah, 
you know who people are. 

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And I did meet some of your 
managers. 

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I didn't meet them. 
Yeah, your first where you 

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trained, I met them all, so I 
had a good scope on everybody. 

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I also met some of your work 
colleagues. 

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I had a good scope on them as 
well. 

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I didn't know you were doing 
that at the time, but hey. 

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Huh. 
Yeah. 

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No. 
But I think it's important 

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because, you know, you may raise
concerns with your managers 

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about certain things and they 
may not necessarily see it the 

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same way, and you still have to 
go out and do what you have to 

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do. 
Yeah. 

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So ultimately, if anything 
happens, the first people who 

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are going to deny any 
responsibility are going to be 

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your managers. 
They're going to say you didn't 

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follow protocol, that's not what
they asked you to do, and yada 

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yada yada. 
No working policy. 

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So for me, as someone on the 
outside and as you know, Mum, 

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it's important to know who's 
who. 

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It's important to know who's 
who. 

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I saw that whole look on your 
face, like it's important. 

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Like in some bus. 
Yeah, Kiss. 

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The ring, Yeah. 
It's important to know who's who

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so that if anything hits the 
fan, you have a good idea of 

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what you were told, not in 
detail, but what you were told 

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to do, where you were told to 
go, what your concerns were when

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you raised them and what the 
outcome of that was. 

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So I, I don't know you, you had 
a lot of St. smarts though. 

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Yes, you have a lot of St. 
smarts. 

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And you know when something is 
potentially a danger. 

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Yeah. 
And you know when to get out. 

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It's like Mum. 
I'm leaving. 

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, you just. 
You just took my arm. 

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I'm like wait are. 
You talking my arm? 

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You took my I've got mum, we've 
got to go. 

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I don't care. 
You shove me in the back, it's 

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like. 
You're showing me a particular 

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direction like. 
No, mum, let's go, let's go. 

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I'm like, OK, I'm not arguing. 
So one thing I think is 

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important, though, is when 
you're told by your adult child 

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or even your young child that 
something is wrong, you got to 

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take it seriously. 
You can't disregard it. 

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Thinking it's either drama or 
truth is being bent or yeah, 

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yeah, absolutely. 
So whatever you said to me about

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the issues that you face, 
always, always take them 

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seriously. 
And I'm, I'm an awful warrior 

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for your safety. 
It doesn't matter where you are 

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unless you're with, you know, 
your father or a whole bunch of 

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family members or someone I know
that I can trust. 

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And it doesn't really matter how
old you are. 

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I'm an awful warrior. 
But I do fall back on the fact 

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that you're very smart. 
You're very astute and you read 

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a situation very well. 
So when you perceive a threat or

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something's going wrong, you're 
so slick with it in terms of, 

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yeah, I just need to go and make
a phone call and I'll come back.

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Morning. 
We're we're going to close our 

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restaurants. 
Oh, OK. 

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Yeah. 
Oh, OK, OK. 

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Yeah, that's fine. 
We're just recording a podcast. 

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So we'll walk in tall. 
Yeah. 

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So maybe. 
Yeah, yeah, All right. 

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Just kicking other people. 
We're just walking away because 

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I'm not, I'm not in a position 
to edit the podcast guys, we've.

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Just. 
Been kicked out of the 

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breakfast. 
Yeah. 

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So we're just, we're just 
walking away. 

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But yeah, sometimes you have to 
just say, oh, I've got to make a

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phone call. 
Yes. 

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And you? 
Yes. 

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Or or we could sit my mum we. 
Can sit. 

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On the other side, can't. 
We yeah. 

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Or. 
Or my mum's calling me. 

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Or. 
My manager's calling. 

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Me or something else? 
Yeah. 

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And you slip out and you you 
never come back. 

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But slip away. 
Not entirely true. 

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One has to go back. 
But yeah, with, with 

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reinforcements, yeah, yeah, 
absolutely. 

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Yeah, so I've, I've got a, a 
certain degree of confidence 

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when I perceive a situation that
could be dangerous for you. 

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I just have to stop and think, 
you know, so I don't worry 

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myself to death. 
We can sit over here somewhere. 

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So I don't worry myself to 
death. 

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That you, you're very good at 
perceiving when there's a risk 

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and there's a danger. 
And again, I think that's part 

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of your training as well, isn't 
it? 

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00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,520
Yes. 
To perceive the risk and to act 

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on it. 
So I I would say rather than 

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giving advice to any parent, I 
would say no, your, your child, 

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your adult child and have 
confidence in the fact that they

229
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,640
can negotiate their way out of 
certain out of most situations. 

230
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,120
And if they can't, they'll pick 
up the phone, they'll send you a

231
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:35,640
quick text or whatever the case 
may be to let you know that a 

232
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,920
they need help or to have you 
call somebody. 

233
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,360
So I'm, I'm very confident that 
you've got all of that about you

234
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,640
so. 
What about when I said I was 

235
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:50,760
visiting prisons? 
Oh no, Oh no. 

236
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,600
All I could think of is whooping
and hollering and whistling and 

237
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,640
and dark. 
Is that here you're going? 

238
00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,520
Where are you? 
Going doors and yeah, yeah, no, 

239
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:04,080
that's not for me. 
I've been, when I used to, I 

240
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,000
used to work for the police 
many, many years ago and I've 

241
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,480
had the occasions I worked at 
three different police stations 

242
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,160
and I had the occasion to go 
down to the cells. 

243
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,920
It wasn't the same as a prison 
proper, yeah, but it was, it was

244
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:21,960
a yeah. 
It was a place where people were

245
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:26,320
held either awaiting charge or 
bail or whatever the case may 

246
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,680
be. 
And it wasn't nice, it wasn't 

247
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,640
pretty. 
And you, you weren't often 

248
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,560
allowed to go down there as an 
employee. 

249
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,880
It, it was for the custody 
Sergeant and the police who 

250
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,160
brought in the, the prisoners if
you like. 

251
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:51,400
But no, I, I, I don't like that.
I think even men of grit, grown 

252
00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:55,160
men of Greece with experience of
the world, don't like to be in 

253
00:15:55,160 --> 00:16:00,320
that environment anyway. 
So why would I even go happy? 

254
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:06,520
Why would I even be happy? 
Or whether it's part of your job

255
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:11,840
or not to say yeah, go for it. 
Yeah. 

256
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,720
No, I don't think it matters who
you are if you're not, if you're

257
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:20,000
not from that world and you're 
not used to that environment, 

258
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,200
it's a hostile place. 
It's a. 

259
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,520
Very hostile place. 
And it's actually all the things

260
00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,880
that you said it, it was I, I 
remember it now, where they open

261
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,200
these, you know, these massive 
gates. 

262
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,080
And as you're walking through to
wherever it is, you've got, it 

263
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,080
doesn't matter where you're 
going, how short or long that 

264
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,960
walk is. 
You know, they are banging on 

265
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,480
those and those whistling and 
whistling and shouting and how 

266
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:48,840
gorgeous and you know, all of 
this stuff. 

267
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:50,320
You don't know what you're 
wearing. 

268
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,240
Right now I don't feel gorgeous.
Right now I feel very 

269
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,680
threatened, vulnerable, 
isolated. 

270
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,520
Yeah, it's, it's not great down 
there, but. 

271
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:06,240
And the people you go to me in 
there, you know, you, you, you 

272
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,760
for me, I didn't have any 
expectation. 

273
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,720
And one of the times I was 
training, one of the times I was

274
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,880
in, the other time I had to pick
up a young person. 

275
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:15,839
The other time I had to visit a 
young person. 

276
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,560
There's lots of different ways, 
you know, you, you have to end 

277
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:23,839
up visiting there. 
And there was this guy was in 

278
00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:28,319
there for domestic violence, and
he was just as vile as the 

279
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:30,520
paperwork suggested. 
Yeah. 

280
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,480
And you would think could he'd 
been in there for quite a while.

281
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,760
Yeah, an assessment had to be 
completed because he was due to 

282
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:39,160
come out, blah, blah, blah. 
And sorry to say, but he was 

283
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,360
just had no more. 
Money to society. 

284
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:44,800
Yeah. 
I mean, generally we wouldn't 

285
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:45,880
write that in the paperwork, 
man. 

286
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:52,240
Yeah, we have recordings going. 
Beaming out, beaming out. 

287
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,320
Yeah. 
You know, he he was he was just 

288
00:17:55,320 --> 00:18:01,160
vile to woman, the woman learn a
vile to his children and he was 

289
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,120
just unpleasant to be around 
and. 

290
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:10,920
Were you on your own just? 
Just ask, no, I was not on my 

291
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:12,840
own. 
No, he was too dangerous. 

292
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,560
Yeah, he, that particular guy 
was too dangerous. 

293
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,000
And he had a real vendetta 
against women. 

294
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,680
And you know, there's a whole 
plethora of background, very 

295
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,720
checkered history, etcetera, 
etcetera. 

296
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,240
And he was all those things that
unfortunately, you'd read. 

297
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:34,280
Sometimes when you meet certain 
people, they are, they may be 

298
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,800
the charmer. 
You know, it's not saying that 

299
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,760
the abuse didn't happen and all 
the rest of it. 

300
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,320
But what you see is not 
necessarily what you read. 

301
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,960
Sometimes the two don't actually
match at the same time. 

302
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,800
But this particular guy, he was 
right across the board, you 

303
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:58,040
know, no more, no care, no 
respect, rude, obnoxious. 

304
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:03,120
He was braggadocious about what 
he had done and, you know, was 

305
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:06,040
quite clear he wanted to make 
friends with people who had done

306
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:09,320
things that he'd done. 
And you know, it was, it was 

307
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,280
quite disturbing. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

308
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:18,520
So for for anyone that is a 
family member at the time, but 

309
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,960
you know at any point, knowing 
that you're likely to meet 

310
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:27,760
people who have done real 
horrible, vile things, it can't 

311
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:33,200
be an easy position to be in. 
I know that you didn't tell me 

312
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,880
all the places that you'd been. 
Oh, gosh, no. 

313
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,440
You know, in, in terms of part 
of your job, that is. 

314
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:42,240
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

315
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:48,400
Because you knew that I would be
very concerned and worried about

316
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:48,840
it. 
Yeah. 

317
00:19:49,360 --> 00:20:00,880
And and also, I suppose I might 
have given you a little bit of 

318
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,360
angst about it as well. 
You may not have perceived the 

319
00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:07,160
danger at the time. 
I don't know, until you've 

320
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,000
actually got in the environment 
itself. 

321
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:17,240
And in some cases where I would 
just say at least I'm very 

322
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,920
worried or be careful or 
whatever the case may be, you 

323
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,400
may not have perceived it as a 
danger until I put it in your 

324
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,040
head. 
I don't know whether that was 

325
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:31,880
the case or not. 
But some of the places that you 

326
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:36,400
did tell me that you had to go 
to, it was I, I just had to pray

327
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,840
that you came out because a lot 
of the, the circumstances, you 

328
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,600
don't have any control and, and 
you don't know the people 

329
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,160
surrounding you. 
They know you're a social 

330
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,120
worker. 
They know you're coming to see 

331
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,360
someone and it's a child issue 
and they've got their own 

332
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:54,280
perception of what you've come 
to do. 

333
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:59,160
And that person who you've gone 
to see may have told them that 

334
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,040
the social workers come in 
today, they're going to take my 

335
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,480
kids off me and the RDRDR. 
So they have a good idea of why 

336
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,920
you're there, but you don't 
necessarily know that and you're

337
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,040
kind of walking into that 
environment. 

338
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,840
So yeah, it's it's a dangerous 
business. 

339
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,520
It is a very dangerous business.
And it's not as if you can carry

340
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,200
something to defend yourself 
like the police. 

341
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,120
They and they are in a dangerous
business as well, and they get 

342
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:31,640
to carry their truncheon or 
their Taser or whatever the case

343
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,440
may be. 
And they're trained for it. 

344
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,240
Yeah, but you lot, you go with 
your computer and you find and. 

345
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,040
And the plan is though, you 
know, sit near the door, don't 

346
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,800
sit with you back to the door. 
And you know, call if you need 

347
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,520
help. 
And there might be a dog, some 

348
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,320
kind of vicious dog, sitting 
there guarding the door. 

349
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,280
Yeah. 
And you haven't got any kind of 

350
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:59,840
self defence training to help 
yourself and you just left to, 

351
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,320
to the devices of wherever you 
end up. 

352
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:07,760
So it's not great. 
It's, it's what you know, 

353
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:13,760
whatever your your child chooses
to do in life, it's what they 

354
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,040
choose to do in life. 
You just have to support them 

355
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,840
the best, you know how. 
But it doesn't mean that you're 

356
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:26,280
not concerned and worried about 
the environment and also the 

357
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,040
fact that sometimes it seems 
some of the managers don't 

358
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,120
really take into account the 
issue of your safety. 

359
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,640
Bless here. 
Not in the, not in the true 

360
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:42,000
sense, because it's part and 
parcel of the job thinking that 

361
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,600
they take and they say, well, 
you've got the long working 

362
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,320
policy, you've got your mobile 
phone. 

363
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:47,960
It's not enough. 
Yeah. 

364
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,120
It's not enough. 
Depending on who it is you're 

365
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:52,760
going to see, you need some 
training. 

366
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:57,600
It's a bit like putting a police
officer in a situation to deal 

367
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,440
with rioting, let's say. 
Yeah. 

368
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,480
And they haven't been equipped 
with the right training. 

369
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,480
Yeah. 
And the right equipment and the 

370
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,320
right technique of how to deal 
with it. 

371
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,800
Whereas you're expected to go in
with your phone and your 

372
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,400
computer and your loan working 
policy, which is not going to be

373
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,520
any good to you once you're 
backed up in the situation. 

374
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,240
And you're expected to deal with
that situation, Yeah. 

375
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,720
And when something happens to 
you, now you got me waxing lyric

376
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,840
on that. 
When something happens to you, 

377
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,560
the first people who are going 
to deny, deny, deny are going to

378
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,640
be the people who sent you out. 
It really is. 

379
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,040
And then you end up as the 
family member having to fight 

380
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,480
the system to prove that they 
didn't take due care, they 

381
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,360
didn't exercise due care and 
attention. 

382
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,880
So yeah. 
I mean, for me, you know, 

383
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,960
hearing you speak at the time, 
what what's interesting is some 

384
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,400
of these things, I definitely 
wasn't as worried as you were 

385
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,840
listening to you speak now 
because all the time you gain. 

386
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,560
Confidence. 
Going into certain spaces and 

387
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,120
dealing with certain people. 
But that's a danger. 

388
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,600
It is because you get 
comfortable, you think I can 

389
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,440
deal with anything. 
I've dealt with the worst of the

390
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,320
worst, and I've put a brave face
on it. 

391
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,680
And, you know, I show them that 
I'm not scared. 

392
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:18,240
But you're going to meet 
somebody who is used to that and

393
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,600
they'll see you as a lone female
because mostly it's female, 

394
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:23,600
isn't it? 
Yeah. 

395
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,080
I mean, I don't know what the 
ratio is in terms of employees. 

396
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:27,840
It's. 
Definitely more female than. 

397
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,000
Male, yeah. 
So I would imagine as well, the 

398
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,120
more experience you have, the 
more confidence they have to 

399
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:38,440
send you out on your own to to 
deal with a lot of challenging 

400
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,720
situations. 
And I guess the manager will 

401
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,280
perceive that you're more 
confident and then that 

402
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,200
increases their capacity in 
their minds essentially. 

403
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:49,040
Out. 
Yeah. 

404
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,280
Yeah, She'll know exactly what 
to do. 

405
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,160
Yeah. 
She's dealt with, you know, 

406
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,880
bigger and better people over 
the last 20 years, and she's 

407
00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:00,240
always come out unscathed. 
But there might be just this one

408
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:06,840
person who maybe, as you said 
before, on the surface charming,

409
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,360
amiable and all the rest of it, 
but really, underneath, they're 

410
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:15,240
planning something much worse. 
Yeah. 

411
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,080
Yeah, much worse. 
And the truth is, you know, they

412
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,560
haven't been sweetness and light
to be involved with us. 

413
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:22,640
No. 
No. 

414
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,840
There's gonna be something that 
have some risk or danger, and if

415
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,680
it's of risk or danger to a 
child, yes, of course it's gonna

416
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,960
be risk or danger to us. 
Absolutely of. 

417
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,160
Course, and if they've reached 
the point of no return, where 

418
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,280
they've got absolutely nothing 
to lose, if you're gonna there's

419
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,440
a potential for you to take 
their child off them, then they 

420
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,600
might as well go all out, 
mightn't they? 

421
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:46,760
Because that might be the only 
thing they do have in life. 

422
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,000
Yeah. 
And they feel give to them 

423
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:50,440
perfect. 
Give respect for whether they're

424
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,360
doing it safely. 
Yeah, yeah. 

425
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:56,960
But I'm I'm proud of what you've
achieved. 

426
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,640
Though. 
In that industry, you've done 

427
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,880
well, you've made a difference 
to a lot of people's lives and 

428
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,800
you enjoyed your job. 
It was very challenging and you 

429
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,520
did burn out and that wasn't 
good at a very young age, in 

430
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,320
your 20s. 
That's definitely not good 

431
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,240
because once you reach burn out,
then you're going to go to it 

432
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:21,000
again because you just haven't 
got at that stage all the skills

433
00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:25,000
to kind of recalibrate and 
combat time and time again. 

434
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,520
It's going to affect you sooner 
or later. 

435
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:33,040
So burnout was a major, major 
issue at such a young age. 

436
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:39,720
But you were very keen you you 
loved the job I did and you 

437
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,800
ended up having to go to 
different places. 

438
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,640
I remember once you went to 
Scotland. 

439
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:45,480
Oh yeah, yeah. 
We had to do an. 

440
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,880
Assessment in Scotland. 
And then you went, you went 

441
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,880
somewhere else. 
I think it was near London, 

442
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,400
Kent. 
Was it Kent? 

443
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,040
Got back at like 4:00 in the 
morning or. 

444
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:56,800
Something. 
Yeah, that's the one where the 

445
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,680
community came out and 
surrounded. 

446
00:26:58,680 --> 00:26:59,800
You lost. 
Yeah, they. 

447
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,840
Yeah, they knew that they were. 
It was, it wasn't my case. 

448
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:08,520
We were there supporting someone
else who got a a full care or 

449
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,640
was it interim? 
I can't remember one of the two.

450
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,360
And yeah, we had to collect the 
children. 

451
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:14,760
I think it was two or three 
children. 

452
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,200
We had two or three cars, the 
nearest placement was Kent based

453
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,880
on needs and all the other stuff
that goes along with it. 

454
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,320
I'm just giving context for 
those that are listening. 

455
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:29,480
And so myself and my colleague, 
he was a gentleman. 

456
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:34,000
He You weren't keen like I was 
driving down with a guy from 

457
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,520
work by myself, you. 
Didn't know him. 

458
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,320
Yeah. 
Because just because you work 

459
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,280
with somebody don't mean you 
know them, do you? 

460
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,280
Yeah, but this is how your mind 
works on no scenes, but it it is

461
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,640
factual. 
But you think, you know, there's

462
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,840
a level of safety because there 
was there an employee. 

463
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,120
But the truth of the lottery is 
we got down there about half 

464
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:55,480
eleven, 12:00 at night simply 
because the community surrounded

465
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,000
us when we got there. 
And they were like, you know, 

466
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,560
you should be ashamed of 
yourself, blah, blah, blah. 

467
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,600
And it was very difficult 
because you're there to support 

468
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:03,640
your colleague. 
It's kind of. 

469
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,640
Looking to do with you. 
Yeah, really. 

470
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,000
They don't necessarily. 
Not the intricacies either. 

471
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,080
You're just there to support. 
We need yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

472
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,440
And we have to go in. 
We have to get suitcases out. 

473
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,320
You've got parents, you know, 
not very happy with the whole 

474
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:17,920
community. 
You could see there were very 

475
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,240
close knit community and they 
surrounded. 

476
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,360
We have three cars and these men
all surrounded these cars, 

477
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,320
women, children, the whole 
community. 

478
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,200
It was, it was very 
intimidating, but we had to do 

479
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,040
what we had to do and we did it 
with nobody getting hurt. 

480
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,840
But it was very difficult. 
And then after all of that, you 

481
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,080
have to then bring the child to 
where they need to go, settle 

482
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,560
them in. 
And we didn't get back till 

483
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,280
about four in the morning. 
And you were very. 

484
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,560
Worried. 
About that, I don't think I 

485
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,720
slept because all manner of 
things were going through my 

486
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,520
mind. 
You had the police there though 

487
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,080
didn't? 
You, No, because we were 

488
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,720
dropping them to a placement. 
So no, it was, it wasn't. 

489
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,560
Oh, actually, I think we 
actually, in terms of collecting

490
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,760
the children, we were 
contemplating calling the 

491
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,480
police. 
I can't remember whether they 

492
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,960
came, you know, because I 
remember the moment I saw all 

493
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,600
these people as we, it was 
unfortunate. 

494
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,160
Was a Grove as well. 
It was in the street. 

495
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,840
So, you know, they run, yeah, 
yeah, they run. 

496
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,800
They run their community and I'm
sure we would have called the 

497
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,760
police, but I can't recall. 
I can't remember. 

498
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,160
I remember vaguely, I do 
remember vaguely you saying 

499
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,360
something about the police. 
OK. 

500
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,000
Being called, yeah, it would 
have made sense because we were 

501
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,720
surrounded. 
Yeah, yeah. 

502
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,800
But those, I mean to think of 
all the things you've done in 

503
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,560
your, in your kind of early 20s,
which included all of those 

504
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,920
challenges, you've got to be 
commended for it. 

505
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:56,040
And really and truly you should 
have been, as I'm sure a lot of 

506
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,520
social workers, you should have 
been very cherished in that 

507
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:03,480
industry, cherished and nurtured
and encouraged and given all the

508
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,360
support necessary for you to 
flourish. 

509
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,320
Because for me right now, you 
should be a service manager. 

510
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,480
Absolutely. 
You've got the, you've got the 

511
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,720
acumen, you've got the work 
ethic down to me, of course, 

512
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:27,840
work ethic, you know how to deal
with people and manage people 

513
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,720
because of all the experiences 
that you had. 

514
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:38,040
So for me, your position should 
be whether you're, you know, 

515
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,120
late 30s or early 40s, whatever 
the case may be, the age is kind

516
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,680
of irrelevant. 
It's just your experience and 

517
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,520
your acumen and the type of 
person you are. 

518
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:51,760
For me, you definitely should be
in that status, not having to. 

519
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,960
Not that I'm saying there's 
anything wrong with it because 

520
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,720
obviously you know, you've been 
successful at it. 

521
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,920
You should have been able to 
remain within your industry to 

522
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,560
make a real difference. 
But you are making the 

523
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:10,320
difference outside of it. 
But I think because it's what 

524
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,280
you brought to the industry and 
your type of social working, you

525
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,400
should definitely have been 
encouraged and nurtured to stay 

526
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,240
within the industry. 
Because ultimately you could 

527
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,920
have been an advisor to social 
services, the government 

528
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:36,040
department, rather than having 
to be pushed in that kind of a 

529
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,840
corner where you feel you've got
no choice. 

530
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,160
It's just it's just wrong. 
Yeah, absolutely wrong. 

531
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:47,160
But that's all another subject. 
But I do think that you, the 

532
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,720
social working that you did, 
made a difference to society and

533
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,480
the people that you dealt with. 
And that's a good thing. 

534
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,520
And that's what you went in 
there to do, and that's what 

535
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,520
you've done. 
But there was far more for you 

536
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,600
to do and that you could have 
done if you'd had the right 

537
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,040
guidance and management around 
you. 

538
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,400
And that's what they're what 
they're there to do, isn't it? 

539
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,840
Not to chase people out of the 
out of the profession. 

540
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:11,960
Right. 
They do. 

541
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,760
So many others. 
Yeah, so many others. 

542
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:15,560
It's. 
Wrong. 

543
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:21,880
Yeah, it's wrong. 
And I think, I don't know, a lot

544
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,880
of managers need better training
in terms of management. 

545
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,800
Managing people. 
Yeah, yeah. 

546
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,000
Because a lot of personal issues
come into it. 

547
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:39,920
What they believe and what they 
take personally, what their ego 

548
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,920
is saying, you know, they don't 
want to look like XY and Z in 

549
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,560
front of their colleagues. 
They forget how to manage 

550
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,560
people. 
And it is very much a skill. 

551
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,720
It's a skill managing people. 
Not everybody can do it. 

552
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,440
A lot of managers in the 
position as manager, they're not

553
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,360
worthy of it. 
They may know their. 

554
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,920
Craft. 
But knowing your craft, it's 

555
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,920
like being a wonderful 
mathematician. 

556
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,560
It doesn't necessarily mean you 
can go and teach that to, you 

557
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,400
know, four or five year olds you
might not have the skill to do. 

558
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,080
And I think a lot of managers in
your industry from all the 

559
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,440
experiences you've talked to me 
about that you've had, they 

560
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,320
haven't got the core essentials 
to manage people. 

561
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,360
They just haven't got it. 
Otherwise the profession would 

562
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,600
be in much better place than it 
is in terms of people having to 

563
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:39,960
leave, in terms of people being 
referred for not conduct, for 

564
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,800
what do you call it, the 
performance issue? 

565
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,160
Oh, disciplinary. 
No. 

566
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,800
You mean you mean to social work
England? 

567
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,120
Yeah, it's. 
Performance issues, isn't it? 

568
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:51,560
Yeah, it's all conduct 
performance. 

569
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,560
Yeah, it's got to raise an 
eyebrow. 

570
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,080
I know if we're flitting from 
thing to thing here, but it's 

571
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,520
got to raise an eyebrow the 
amount of people who are being 

572
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,840
referred who are of colour. 
Yeah. 

573
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,000
From what I've I've heard and 
from what you've told me, yeah, 

574
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:09,760
they need to look, look into 
that. 

575
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,600
Something's going wrong. 
Something's going and also just 

576
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,159
not just coincidence, is it? 
No, coming back to one of your 

577
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:20,840
point about, you know, it should
be service, service manager, not

578
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,480
just me, but there's a whole 
bunch of people that should be, 

579
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,440
could be service manager, but 
for whatever reason and there's 

580
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,880
that block there. 
And we would also have more 

581
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,639
diversity in service management 
because remember when I took you

582
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:35,760
to a conference, I won't name 
the conference, but I took you 

583
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,400
to a conference, one of the 
first social work conferences. 

584
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,600
And when I first stepped back 
from the frontline and I 

585
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,120
remember like halfway through 
the day, he was like, where's 

586
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,840
your peoples? 
As if, as if to say, you know, 

587
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,639
for those who don't know and 
those listening, you know, in 

588
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:54,400
Australia or wherever, meaning, 
you know, there's no other black

589
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,000
person or Asian people here. 
No diversity. 

590
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,320
Whatsoever. 
And you were like, are you 

591
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,200
telling me? 
This is what you said to me. 

592
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,920
I don't know if you were like, 
are you telling me this is the 

593
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,680
kind of environment you've been 
working in where there's 

594
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,280
virtually no diversity? 
But The thing is, the 

595
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,800
environment you work in, it's 
quite different when you go to 

596
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:18,960
the conferences because you work
with a lot of mix, a mix bag of 

597
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,800
social workers, don't you? 
Yes. 

598
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,600
And this is what they're saying 
is that there's plenty of global

599
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,840
majority social workers on the 
front line, but as you go up 

600
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,920
that that number decreases 
significantly. 

601
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,520
Yeah. 
Yeah, what they, what they need 

602
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,560
to do Watch. 
That glass, please, please. 

603
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,240
It's right. 
There, Yeah, what they need to 

604
00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:44,000
do is almost some kind of 
selection process. 

605
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:53,560
I think they need to have some 
kind of quota. 

606
00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:57,880
I have to be careful what I say 
here. 

607
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:08,480
I think the people who are of 
color or a mixture of people 

608
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,640
from different ethnic 
backgrounds, those who have 

609
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,680
shown an interest in management 
and shown management potential, 

610
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,840
I think those people should be 
encouraged, picked and trained. 

611
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,720
So there are some leadership 
horses that do something like 

612
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:27,080
that. 
I think one of them and and I 

613
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:34,440
know Frontline certainly had a 
course that I was a coach for 

614
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,520
that were not necessarily 
specifically for a global 

615
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,600
majority. 
There is that arm, but we're you

616
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,720
know giving them training 
etcetera for that. 

617
00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:49,600
But ultimately, those jobs have 
to be available. 

618
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:55,040
Ultimately, whoever is on that 
jobs panel needs to score fairly

619
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,840
in order for that chance to be 
given. 

620
00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:58,360
What? 
I'm. 

621
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:00,680
Saying are you saying there 
needs to be a separate army 

622
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,480
simply for goals from the global
majority interested in 

623
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,760
management and there are jobs 
available receive. 

624
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,720
They receive the appropriate 
encouragement and training and 

625
00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:15,000
when those posts become 
available, they be given a fair 

626
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,680
crack at the whip at going for 
those posts. 

627
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,600
But in order to even be able to 
apply for those posts, you've 

628
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,600
got to be in a position to do 
that. 

629
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,240
So even if it's just first year 
management, middle management, 

630
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:32,440
whatever the case may be, I'm 
not saying that those should be 

631
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,000
skipped and saying you should go
through the same process as 

632
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,880
everybody else. 
But because there's an imbalance

633
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:45,120
in the the number of black and 
ethnic minority social workers 

634
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,360
in the upper kind of echelons of
management, it's got to be 

635
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,120
looked at because it's just 
going to go on like that for 

636
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:53,480
year on year on year. 
Isn't. 

637
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:54,880
It has been. 
It has been. 

638
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,280
How is it going to change if you
don't give people who've got the

639
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,200
potential and who've shown an 
interest in it the opportunity 

640
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,720
to do it? 
It's got, it's got to be done, 

641
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:12,080
it's got to be done. 
I know in my profession I was a 

642
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:17,080
little bit lucky, I suppose, in 
that I was approached by one of 

643
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:22,720
the managers to apply for 
management in a completely 

644
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:28,000
different group. 
And I wasn't for it at first 

645
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,320
because of the way it was done. 
It was kind of like a sideways 

646
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,120
move and it was made just two of
us that were chosen. 

647
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,680
And that was because they wanted
to fill a gap in another 

648
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:44,080
department, not necessarily 
because they knew how you worked

649
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:45,520
and they knew that you have 
potential. 

650
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,400
But that actually worked out 
very well for me. 

651
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,280
It's given me the opportunity to
be in management and to be 

652
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:58,080
trained in that area and to 
actually excel in that area with

653
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,640
the potential of, you know, 
going hiring management. 

654
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,600
Yeah, yeah. 
So that was. 

655
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,760
Well, that opened the door to 
the other, yeah, other element, 

656
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,400
the promo element. 
I don't know if you want to 

657
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,920
share that, but that opened the 
door to the next stage. 

658
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,600
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

659
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,560
Well, yeah. 
I mean, obviously I, I applied 

660
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,200
for the, well, I did have to 
apply even though the 

661
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,080
opportunity was presented to me 
and I, I didn't really want it. 

662
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:27,760
I applied for it and I was 
successful at getting it. 

663
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,160
And then within about a year of 
me being in that management 

664
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,240
role, my boss said to me, my 
boss, who was female and was 

665
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:38,200
white, encouraged me to apply 
for the next step up, which, 

666
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:43,960
which was associateship. 
And I looked at the criteria and

667
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,360
for me, I wasn't quite there 
yet. 

668
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:51,080
I had to work my way up to that 
criteria, which is what I did. 

669
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,560
And within the next year or so 
when I made the application, I 

670
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,920
was successful. 
And definitely in my industry 

671
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:03,760
there aren't that many black 
managers and you know that 

672
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,720
they're encouraging it. 
I I think ever since the George 

673
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:12,640
Floyd murder, which is what I 
have to call it, a lot of 

674
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:19,520
companies have opened up more 
opportunities for. 

675
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:28,360
Non-english people, let's say. 
Well, that's how I got into 

676
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,760
Frontline. 
They recognized that their 

677
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,120
coaching call wasn't diverse 
enough. 

678
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,240
Yeah. 
So they were open posts simply 

679
00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:36,640
for those from a diverse 
background. 

680
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:37,480
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

681
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:44,200
And I'll tell you what, the fact
that I was promoted, it didn't 

682
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:51,840
half give a lot of other people 
in different lower rolls the 

683
00:40:52,000 --> 00:41:01,040
confidence and the the 
expectation that they could also

684
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,000
apply for that pose and get it. 
This is really opened up the 

685
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,480
door. 
This is where the phrase 

686
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,800
representation matters comes 
into play. 

687
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:10,760
You've got to be able to see 
yourself. 

688
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,360
Yeah, you've got to be able to 
see yourself, and that's kind of

689
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,760
what you say around some of the 
work I've been doing since I've 

690
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,480
left social work. 
You're seeing other people do 

691
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:22,640
similar. 
Yeah. 

692
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:24,800
Stuff you've got to be able to 
see yourself. 

693
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,800
Doing absolutely. 
And that it all depends on 

694
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,880
opportunity. 
It all depends on your boss. 

695
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,200
Yeah. 
I think my boss recognized from 

696
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,200
when I started that I had a good
level of knowledge. 

697
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,080
Yeah. 
And also because I was a little 

698
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,120
bit older. 
So a little bit older, a lot 

699
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:49,600
older. 
I I had the opportunity of 

700
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,000
dealing with people who were 
younger, who could look up to 

701
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,000
what I was doing and try and 
emulate what I was doing and 

702
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,640
learn from me. 
I mean, the majority of people 

703
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,760
who I have managed and 
supervised, I've always said 

704
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,520
that they've learnt so much from
me and my management style is 

705
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,520
different from any of the others
that they've had before. 

706
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,120
That's what they've said, yeah. 
OK. 

707
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,560
And that's what not my must have
told me, but those employees 

708
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,200
have actually come to me and 
said, you know, I'm going to 

709
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,960
miss being in your team. 
Lynn, I've learnt a lot from you

710
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,960
and I'm sorry to, you know, 
whether they were blowing smoke,

711
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,400
I don't know. 
I'd like to think they weren't, 

712
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:32,200
but they they genuinely said 
they learned a lot from me and 

713
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,320
no other manager had taken the 
time to actually show them how 

714
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,920
to do things. 
Certain things, not everything. 

715
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,720
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

716
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,160
So, yeah, it's, it's a whole 
different world. 

717
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,920
It's management world. 
It is, and there's a lot to 

718
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,600
learn and not everyone's cut out
for it. 

719
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,240
There are a lot of challenges, 
as you well know, and obviously 

720
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:58,280
the book stops with you. 
It goes and the decision that 

721
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,600
you make. 
So you don't quite switch off, 

722
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,640
do you, when you're in that 
position? 

723
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,280
I mean, I'm not sure how many. 
The only thing that I don't like

724
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,520
about podcasting is that you 
don't know or you all the 

725
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,480
listeners are. 
So you don't know whether you've

726
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,160
got 50% managers or 50% social 
workers or maybe you've got a 

727
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,960
whole, you know, selection of 
student social workers. 

728
00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:22,920
Because I have a lot of student 
social workers. 

729
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,320
I listen to your podcast. 
I now know what to look out for.

730
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,160
Right, OK. 
And I'm thinking, oh, I'm, I 

731
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,200
think I'm mainly talking to 
experienced social workers and 

732
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,280
saying, oh, when you're in 
practice to the, the birth, 

733
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:35,920
yeah. 
And so it's interesting how it 

734
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:40,320
appeals to different levels of 
of, you know, social work 

735
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,240
professions. 
Yeah, yeah. 

736
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:48,080
So as we kind of got come to a 
little close here, yeah. 

737
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:56,080
What was one of your most 
worrying times? 

738
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,000
Oh, that's easy. 
Oh, really? 

739
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:04,520
That's very easy. 
It was the dude that the police 

740
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,080
were looking for in the 
helicopter. 

741
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:11,080
It's social work because we 
laugh. 

742
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:15,800
He was, really. 
Nice though. 

743
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,800
Well, there you go. 
Very tight. 

744
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,800
Another sheep in wolf in sheep's
clothing. 

745
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,720
Yes. 
Yeah, that was a very worrying 

746
00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:30,320
one because we were relatively 
local to where he was. 

747
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,760
Yes. 
And in the black community, it's

748
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:41,680
very common to meet up with 
other black people at black 

749
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:42,880
events. 
Yeah. 

750
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:48,880
And there was always a risk that
you could see him at an event 

751
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,680
and he was very, he was, he was 
very violent, very, very, very 

752
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:58,560
violent and he had no regard. 
For authority. 

753
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,600
Yeah, authority, yeah, full 
stop. 

754
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:08,560
Yeah. 
And he was the one that, you 

755
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,200
know, you had to get the 
restraining order. 

756
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,040
Yeah. 
Because he was just a very 

757
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,600
dangerous piece of work. 
And you, you were also worried 

758
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:16,680
about me. 
Yeah. 

759
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,080
Because obviously if he followed
your car, he could have followed

760
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:27,160
you straight to home. 
And they don't care that it's a 

761
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,040
relative or a mum or whatever. 
All they know is you go into 

762
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,160
that house and there's someone 
else in that house and they 

763
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,120
could very well pick on that 
person. 

764
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,440
But that was a very worrying 1. 
Worrying 1 because you ended up 

765
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,680
going to court on that one as 
well, and you needed someone to 

766
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:48,960
go with you as a protection and 
your employers were nowhere to 

767
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,840
be seen. 
That was shocking. 

768
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:53,520
Yeah, absolutely. 
Shocking. 

769
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,480
It must be. 
I mean, I'm not saying that it 

770
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,960
wasn't shocking for me, but for 
you being on the outside looking

771
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,960
in, thinking for what's 
happening here. 

772
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:08,320
Where's the care? 
Yeah, my my thing was and is 

773
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,040
always how to protect you. 
What can I do to protect her? 

774
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:20,840
Is it a question of you park 
somewhere down the road and walk

775
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:23,760
or do I have? 
To do that plenty of times in a 

776
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,320
lot of houses I go do. 
I pick you up somewhere. 

777
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,600
I didn't even know what this guy
looked. 

778
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,160
I can't remember whether he 
showed me a picture. 

779
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:35,000
No, because he was, was he not? 
He was in the newspapers or 

780
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:40,480
something, The local paper. 
I think so, but I don't know. 

781
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,080
You wouldn't have got a picture 
or a name. 

782
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:44,760
You. 
Know you wouldn't. 

783
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,160
Yeah. 
Or, you know, he's like, he's 

784
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:47,400
just a guy. 
He's black. 

785
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:47,880
Really. 
Yeah. 

786
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,600
And that I guess must create 
worry in terms of the unknown 

787
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,200
because we can't, we can't 
share, Yeah. 

788
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,800
And also. 
He may have seen me walking with

789
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,160
you at some point somewhere out 
in. 

790
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:00,120
Public. 
Yes. 

791
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:01,560
Yes. 
And then he could have seen me 

792
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:03,360
somewhere else on my own. 
Yeah. 

793
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,280
And, you know, obviously you 
don't know who that person, 

794
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:10,320
absolutely no idea who he is. 
And I could have been in danger.

795
00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:14,560
But from your point of view, I 
think that was one of the most 

796
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,360
worrying ones that you had to 
deal with. 

797
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:22,200
I think some of the trauma that 
came from that was the lack of 

798
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,600
support from the workplace, 
yeah. 

799
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,920
Yeah, it just kind of left it to
your own devices, which is not 

800
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,440
right. 
And they don't seem to get this 

801
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:38,080
cultural nuance that you could 
go to a christening tomorrow. 

802
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:39,960
It's a black. 
Christening. 

803
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:45,040
The likelihood is not all of us,
but a lot of us in certain areas

804
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:46,400
know each other. 
We know. 

805
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,400
A family member that knows a 
family member. 

806
00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:52,520
And there was always that 
possibility, but they didn't 

807
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:55,360
actually. 
Managers didn't take that on. 

808
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,840
Board No, it was oh, it's, it's 
just a potential. 

809
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,920
It's a potential. 
It's a potential but actually, 

810
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,320
and some people know you. 
Before you know, that's right, 

811
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,240
that's right. 
They'll come up to you and say, 

812
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:12,680
are you the social worker that I
saw in this vicinity? 

813
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:14,960
Weren't you there to pick up 
such a such a child? 

814
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:18,040
And that's all they need to say.
They don't have to to tell you 

815
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:19,800
anything else. 
They're like putting it out 

816
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,800
there, like, yeah, I know. 
Who you are? 

817
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,480
I know your face. 
I've seen you before and that's 

818
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:25,840
enough. 
That's. 

819
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,680
Enough. 
So yeah, that that was a 

820
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,200
horrible one. 
It was, and it seemed to go on 

821
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,960
for a very. 
Long time, the court date, 

822
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,920
everything and then the 
possibility of you having to see

823
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,520
him in court and to give 
evidence and all the rest of it 

824
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,080
and there was not a single soul 
from management. 

825
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,400
Until this day, I've never had a
call back. 

826
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,040
Nothing. 
Till this day, they've never 

827
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:54,200
checked whether that restraining
order was put in place till this

828
00:48:54,240 --> 00:49:00,160
day. 
And I was the one I dropped. 

829
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:01,040
You off? 
Yes. 

830
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,640
Dropped you off. 
I was in the car park I think. 

831
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:10,040
Yeah, and. 
Then your godfather. 

832
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,640
Met you and you walked in 
together. 

833
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:19,400
But there was no letter from 
management, no phone call, no 

834
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,600
e-mail, no nothing to say. 
Do you want us to come with you?

835
00:49:23,720 --> 00:49:25,360
You're going to be. 
Okay, called. 

836
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,240
I called and asked for that 
support and said well, the case 

837
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:31,680
has been transferred to somebody
else because at that point I'd 

838
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:33,640
left. 
The case has been transferred to

839
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:35,320
someone else. 
By the way, the hotels put on 

840
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,520
some background music so 
hopefully you can still hear us.

841
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,440
I've been transferred to someone
else and I managed to speak to 

842
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:48,120
her and she said well I I am 
busy that day so I doubt I'll be

843
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,520
able to to come but I'll try. 
I'll call you back. 

844
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:52,800
I'll speak to my manager. 
I didn't hear a word. 

845
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,760
I'll call but nothing. 
Disgraceful. 

846
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,600
And of course, because it's 
supposed to be, it is 

847
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,920
confidential. 
I can't exactly pick up the 

848
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:05,080
phone and say, you know, where 
are you? 

849
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:06,680
You're putting my daughter at 
risk. 

850
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:08,960
You're sending her on this 
mission. 

851
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,680
And bearing in mind that they 
were kind of new to the case, if

852
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,280
you like, I don't know how much 
they looked into it. 

853
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,160
They considered it and knew all 
the risks and. 

854
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:21,160
Maybe they didn't want to put 
themselves at. 

855
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:22,640
Risk. 
Yeah, it could be. 

856
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:30,040
But yeah, I it's things like 
that that make you, I think that

857
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,400
they just don't care about you. 
They don't care about your 

858
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,920
safety and all the the risks 
that you face. 

859
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,120
And they're not willing to put 
themselves out to do anything 

860
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:45,200
about it. 
Because, you know, if that was 

861
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,960
just me and you, I'd be there 
with you at the end of the day. 

862
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,280
Yeah, unless you say to me, Mom,
I think it's safer for you to 

863
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:57,040
stay so and so I'm like, well, 
no, we're in it. 

864
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,600
We're in this together. 
If you haven't got management 

865
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,880
with you, then I'll have to 
stand with you and that's it. 

866
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,200
But you didn't want me really 
near there to be identified in 

867
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,880
any way shape. 
No, no, no, no, no, no, 

868
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,200
Definitely not. 
Definitely not. 

869
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:15,200
And also it's that dichotomy. 
But it's not a dichotomy. 

870
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,000
It's a duty and it's law. 
It's confidential. 

871
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,960
Yeah, it's confidential. 
But then in a scenario like 

872
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,480
that, the parent's instincts 
would want to kick. 

873
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,480
In Yeah, of course, it's the 
confidential you still, yeah, 

874
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,200
you still declare you keep his 
life at risk. 

875
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:30,680
Yeah, I don't care what you look
like. 

876
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:34,480
I'm going because they're just, 
I forget what you're like I've 

877
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:36,640
got to do. 
Yeah, it's very hard because 

878
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:40,960
it's like you're at your 
personal safety is at risk, but 

879
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,960
you can't share any details 
about this person. 

880
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,920
Yeah. 
So you as I'm the outsider can 

881
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,320
keep yourself safe or be a bit 
more vigilant etcetera. 

882
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:55,640
So you can't, you just can't. 
And I think that that unknown 

883
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:59,760
created further I'm expecting 
for you in that scenario in 

884
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,200
particular because you you're 
completely helpless. 

885
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,080
I'm at risk, but I can't tell 
you who's what we're. 

886
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,680
Aware. 
I don't know who it looks like 

887
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,160
which which door is he coming in
at the court? 

888
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,040
I mean, they made sure that you 
came in at 1. 

889
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:16,480
Door they did that was and 
actually to to confirm I did not

890
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,880
see this person at court at all 
that day. 

891
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:20,720
Yeah, because he pleaded guilty,
did he? 

892
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:23,600
Because he plead not guilty 
before, didn't he all along? 

893
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:25,440
That's right. 
And then calm the day. 

894
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,040
He pleaded guilty, Yes. 
And then he was settled outside.

895
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:29,720
Well, we say settled like, yeah,
you know, there was. 

896
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:31,360
But he was dealt with outside of
court. 

897
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,320
Restraining order in place. 
Happy days. 

898
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,160
Everyone went home. 
Yeah, outside, out of separate 

899
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:36,920
doors. 
Yeah. 

900
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,800
So that risk was significantly 
reduced, but I didn't know they 

901
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:41,760
were going to do that on the 
day. 

902
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,000
Of the court hearing. 
So leading up to it was. 

903
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,320
Very, very, very stressful. 
Yeah. 

904
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:47,920
Yeah, it was very stressful. 
Yeah. 

905
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:49,920
Yeah. 
What is the highlight of my 

906
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:54,680
social career to you? 
Oh, I would think it's that 

907
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,440
young boy. 
Oh yes. 

908
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:03,040
That young boy got really 
attached to you and he really 

909
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:07,440
wanted you as a social worker. 
He trusted you, he could relate 

910
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:15,600
to you and he had that affinity 
with you which he didn't have 

911
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:19,680
with anyone else before you. 
And he didn't want you to to go.

912
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:22,880
He didn't, he didn't. 
And even though you kind of 

913
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,320
said, you know, the next social 
worker that you're going to be 

914
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:29,080
having is ex and they're really 
nice and what have you, what was

915
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:29,960
his? 
What was his You? 

916
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,760
Phoned me now, can I speak to 
Lisa, please? 

917
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,160
And I'm like, what's going on? 
Like, why are you calling me in 

918
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,040
the middle of a school day? 
He actually went to the office 

919
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,040
to to call me the school office.
And he's like, you know, that 

920
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:43,400
new social worker he told me 
about? 

921
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,240
I'm like, yeah, it's not going 
to work with her, you know? 

922
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:47,920
I know. 
How do you know that? 

923
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,160
You ain't met her properly yet? 
He's like, I know, but you 

924
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:51,200
brought her to the house over 
there. 

925
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,040
She's all right. 
But Nah, man, Nah. 

926
00:53:54,160 --> 00:54:00,480
It's not going to work. 
Yeah, I think you you had a 

927
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:08,960
really good professional 
relationship with him and, you 

928
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,600
know, I think you made a 
difference to him and his life. 

929
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:15,680
And that was that was one of the
highlights. 

930
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:19,000
Yeah, I'd agree with you because
one time I took him at 

931
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:23,880
Fernando's and we had something 
to eat after after school and he

932
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,200
said to me, I'm never going to 
forget you, you know, because I 

933
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,440
said this new social worker 
thing is going, it's going to 

934
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,000
happen. 
So you know, you have to just 

935
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,080
get used to it or to him up. 
We don't cut Nando's. 

936
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:36,480
And he said I'm never going to 
forget you. 

937
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:38,880
You know, it's like you make you
make me feel like I can do 

938
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,680
anything. 
And I was like, that's because 

939
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:42,600
you can. 
He's like, I know. 

940
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,360
But most of the time I don't 
feel like that. 

941
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:46,480
And that's what you make me feel
like. 

942
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,600
And I said, oh, is that why you 
tried to couldn't be asked the 

943
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,080
other day? 
And is that we're not talking 

944
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,000
about that now. 
I am. 

945
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,640
I'm still talking about that. 
I have to come and get you to 

946
00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:59,120
prison. 
That's what I'm still talking 

947
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:00,200
about. 
And you know, we used to have 

948
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:04,720
this kind of, yeah, the slight 
banter element to those serious 

949
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:07,680
topics. 
But yeah, that I would say I 

950
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:11,160
would agree, yeah. 
Some would agree some good 

951
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,600
highlights. 
Yeah, definitely, definitely 

952
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:20,560
some good highlights and ones 
where, I mean, it's not pleasant

953
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:34,160
to even think about it, but 
where mum has mum's on drugs and

954
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:40,320
mum's pregnant and obviously 
baby has also become dependent 

955
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:46,320
and when the babies are born 
they have to be removed. 

956
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:57,320
Yeah, those ones are not great, 
but they are what's necessary 

957
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:01,440
for the well-being of the child.
So, you know, there's some some 

958
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:02,680
sad cases. 
Yeah. 

959
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:03,880
And. 
But the right? 

960
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:05,640
Decision, the right decision was
made. 

961
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,800
And also the the sibling abuse 
ones as well. 

962
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:10,560
Those were horrible ones weren't
made. 

963
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,560
Yeah, because the siblings, I 
think they had learning 

964
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:19,000
difficulties or some kind of 
mental health difficulty, and 

965
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,560
they didn't actually realize 
what was being done. 

966
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:28,520
No, there's a lot of, there's a 
lot of sibling abuse ones where 

967
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:30,880
it's difficult because you've 
got sibling to sibling and 

968
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,760
sibling to parent and parent to 
sibling. 

969
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:37,560
So you have this complexity and 
you know, it's which one do you 

970
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:39,160
deal with? 
Do you manage first? 

971
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,920
But usually you have to do 
everything at the same, the same

972
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:46,240
time. 
But I would say another one of 

973
00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:53,040
my another one of my highlights,
it just came to me when I was 

974
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:55,920
employed as a full time coach in
a local authority. 

975
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:58,960
Oh yes, yeah. 
Where was that again? 

976
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,000
Was that? 
In I won't say where it was, but

977
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,760
and that one was. 
Yeah. 

978
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:08,800
That was a real highlight in my 
career because I've really been 

979
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,320
pushing and trying to speak to 
about the powers that be about 

980
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,800
the power of coaching in social 
work and coaching at that time 

981
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:18,960
was only accessible to managers 
who online courses. 

982
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:23,720
And you know, now you can see 
there's a whole actually got to 

983
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:27,720
be a full time coach for a 
children in care team, the 

984
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:30,880
senior management team, you 
know, the whole shebang came up 

985
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,720
with the whole program and the 
whole system. 

986
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:38,440
And that that was a beautiful 
moment for me because I've 

987
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:42,440
really pushed for that and I got
decent money as well for that 

988
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:43,760
one. 
So I was really happy about 

989
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:45,000
that. 
And that opened up the door, 

990
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,520
believe it or not. 
So management because they 

991
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,640
wouldn't consider me as agency 
as a manager if I've never been 

992
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:54,520
a manager. 
So when, you know, more help was

993
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:59,840
needed in the team for managing,
I just kind of very slowly moved

994
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:03,120
into that role. 
Yeah. 

995
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:06,960
So that was, I'd say, another 
highlight where I was coaching 

996
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:10,800
and then managing, and then that
opened up the door to more 

997
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,280
management. 
OK, Yeah. 

998
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:15,480
Yeah. 
That's a good role. 

999
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:19,240
That's definitely a good role. 
It was, yeah, Good role. 

1000
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:23,160
Any final words? 
Any final words? 

1001
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:30,880
I'm proud of you for making the 
jump from being employed to 

1002
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,680
self-employed. 
I know it's challenging. 

1003
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:40,200
I'm feeling every angst and 
every worry and every concern. 

1004
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,840
And every joy and every reward. 
Joy and every reward. 

1005
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:49,760
Yeah, I'm there to celebrate all
the good, wonderful moments, 

1006
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:54,280
even though half the time I am 
so busy with my own work and my 

1007
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:56,120
own challenges. 
I know. 

1008
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:04,880
That I I'm not able to give as 
much as I would like to to 

1009
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:08,480
support you in in your 
self-employment journey. 

1010
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:10,920
Because it's a lonely journey. 
People don't realize that you 

1011
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:15,760
are solely one person, just you,
responsible for every element. 

1012
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,000
Yeah. 
You know, yeah, it's, it's. 

1013
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:24,040
I mean we are able to talk about
a lot of things business wise in

1014
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:29,840
yourself employment journey, 
which is it's, it's good to be 

1015
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:38,360
able to talk about things and 
most kind of those the big 

1016
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:42,040
decisions we do talk about and 
kind of come up with some kind 

1017
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,360
of solution. 
But obviously you are your 

1018
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:50,080
business and you're the face of 
the business and everyone knows 

1019
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:54,360
you as the face of the business.
I'm just there in a supportive 

1020
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:59,520
role as much as I possibly can 
be given, you know, I have a 

1021
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,560
full time demanding career as 
well. 

1022
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:08,040
But yeah, I'm proud of you for 
taking that leap and for taking 

1023
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,240
the strides and the steps that 
you've taken. 

1024
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,800
It's not easy, but you again 
when you were. 

1025
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,720
Employed, you were trying to 
make a difference and now you're

1026
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,080
self-employed, you're still 
trying to make a difference. 

1027
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:27,520
So you're kind of heart and mind
and your motivation is 

1028
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,800
definitely in the right places. 
We just need. 

1029
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:38,440
I'm praying God's lock upon you 
so that you get the vision. 

1030
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,040
I've got my mind. 
Well, you've got the vision. 

1031
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,400
I'm not worried about vision. 
OK, you've, you've got the 

1032
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:48,160
vision. 
The vision is, is all there. 

1033
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,760
It's just about being given that
opportunity so that you can 

1034
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:59,000
consistently make an income from
self-employment where you are. 

1035
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:07,520
But you know more, but it's not,
it's not easy being 

1036
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,040
self-employed. 
It's not what it looks like. 

1037
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:12,400
And you have to put in the 
graph. 

1038
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:14,640
Yeah. 
You have to be dedicated. 

1039
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,320
Yeah. 
And you have to be on the grind.

1040
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:18,920
Day in, day out. 
Yeah. 

1041
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,880
It's not for no days off. 
No days off. 

1042
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:25,440
You're thinking you're going to 
be self-employed and your life 

1043
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:29,680
is going to be rosy and somehow 
things are just going to happen.

1044
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,480
It isn't. 
You have to work for it. 

1045
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:39,920
Every single penny, every single
request, and sometimes requests 

1046
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,080
you have to make them over and 
over and over again. 

1047
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,360
Even so many people promise you 
things. 

1048
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:51,080
And we can, we can be at a show 
for a whole weekend and we would

1049
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:55,360
get let's say 99 people 
promising us to do X. 

1050
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:59,760
And out of those 99, sometimes 
we might get one person, if 

1051
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:01,360
that, and that will be two or 
three years. 

1052
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:02,400
Later. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1053
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:07,160
And you've got to have the 
patience and the belief not only

1054
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:10,680
in yourself but in your own 
product and what you've got to 

1055
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:13,600
offer, yeah, that you can 
continue to do it. 

1056
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:18,160
And that if one person says no, 
another person will say yes. 

1057
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:20,480
Yeah. 
And largely we've had that. 

1058
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:23,080
Yes, yes. 
You know when we're least 

1059
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:26,800
expected and when it looks as if
things are. 

1060
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:28,480
There's no the point of no 
return. 

1061
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:30,760
Something happens. 
Something happens. 

1062
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:34,280
I mean, we've had some. 
Great success with the event 

1063
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:34,960
now. 
I mean the. 

1064
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,440
National event is going from 
strength to strength, the 

1065
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,280
National Black and Diverse 
Safeguarding Conference. 

1066
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:43,200
If you don't know it's happening
Saturday the 20th of September, 

1067
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:47,800
go to 
socialworkcoachinghub.com/events

1068
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:49,960
get your tickets for that. 
We haven't got that many left, 

1069
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:52,800
but it's just been going from 
strength to strength. 

1070
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,320
I mean, we've got government 
officials opening this year. 

1071
01:02:56,440 --> 01:03:00,200
I mean, it's in its second year.
Yeah, absolutely. 

1072
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:01,720
It can only get better. 
It can. 

1073
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:03,560
Only get better. 
It can only get better. 

1074
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:07,080
But it's, it's graft. 
It's every day, every day, every

1075
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:09,000
day. 
Something is moving, shaking, 

1076
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:13,200
changing, being agreed, not 
being agreed, negotiating. 

1077
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:16,520
You know, it's a dance, it's a 
constant dance and you've got to

1078
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:19,240
be in it in order to, to do that
dance. 

1079
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,640
Really a bit of a tango to be 
honest. 

1080
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:27,680
Many people would have given up 
by now because I I can't 

1081
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:31,520
remember what the statistics is.
Whether it's 50% of small 

1082
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,640
businesses fail within the first
five years, I can't remember, 

1083
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:36,920
but. 
I know it's a high. 

1084
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:41,560
Percentage of businesses that 
fail within that period because 

1085
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:46,040
either they haven't got the 
right product or they don't know

1086
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:47,320
how to market it.