Welcome to Dear Social Worker. Let's talk the podcast that
prioritizes you the person behind the title.
I'm your host, Lisa Ran, and I'm here to inspire and encourage
your personal development, promote your wellbeing and
leadership development. Welcome to another episode
celebrating Black History Month here in the UK and the theme is
Saluting our sisters. We have 4 ladies from the US and
the UK and today's podcast is titled A Career Beyond Social
Work. So let's talk.
I'm going to start with my UK sister, right Nadine.
Please introduce yourself to our listeners.
Nice to meet you, everyone. I'm Nadine Thorpe.
I'm a qualified social worker and I specialize in working in
children and families. So I've been working as a social
worker for about 8 years now. And at the moment I work as a
social worker for the court as I transition to become a
solicitor. Thank you.
Let's go straight to Atlanta. Start with Sean, North Atlanta,
then South Atlanta. Sure.
My name is Sean Austin. I'm a licensed Clinical Social
worker here in Atlanta. I've been a social worker for 15
years and I think I've worked in every setting possible with
every population. Currently working with our
veterans and I'm glad to be here today.
Thank you, Sean. South Atlanta.
Hi, I'm Joy. Thank you for having me here.
I'm a clinical social worker. Also, I'm from the Bronx, NY,
but I live in Atlanta now. I've been a social worker for 11
years, 12 years and I have worked in schools and child
welfare and now I'm in private practice.
Thank you, Joy Monika. Everybody.
My name is Monika Thomas. I'm also a clinical social
worker. I'm independently licensed.
I operate a private practice in Ohio.
I've also been a social worker for a little over 1213 fourteen
years and I also have a YouTube channel where I provide
education and training for other social workers.
Thank you all for being here. It's wonderful to have us all in
the same room at the same time and to be able to share with our
listeners all the different facets of social work.
And that's why we're all here, because we all do something
slightly different that is beyond the government
organization, beyond local authority.
I know there's people thinking, well, how have you moved into or
what made you go, Nadine, into being a lawyer?
What inspired you to do that? What inspired you, Monika, to
have a private practice? So I think just understanding
your stories is a good place to start, Nadine.
And yes, so as I mentioned earlier, I worked in the child
protection team for about 5 years and I particularly enjoyed
working on court cases simply because I enjoyed making sure
that children got their voice heard in the court proceedings.
So that kind of inspired me to work for as a family court
advisor, where my role now is solely working for the court to
represent children in care proceedings that are in relation
to them. So I specifically work in public
law, and that's where the local authority would make an
application to the court to place the child in foster care
or with a family member. One of the reasons why I wanted
to transition to become a lawyer is because I noticed that the
majority of my caseloads are people from black backgrounds,
but the majority of the lawyers that would represent these
children were white middleclass men.
And that kind of stood out to me because it was like.
Although they're representing these children, they don't
really understand what it means to grow up in, let's say, South
London or East London and what kind of decisions they should be
advocating on behalf of their client, because they're because
they've basically grown up in a different world to them.
And so that's one of the reasons why I want, I wanted to be the
change that I wanted to see. Thank you for sharing Nadine
Monika. Yes, my path is also similar to
that. So I worked in a lot of
different professions within the social work field.
But one of the things that I noticed is when I was doing
therapy or when I was working at children's services, there
weren't a lot of African Americans who were who they were
referring to for therapy services if a child needed that.
So that was one of the reasons why I entered therapy and then I
enter private practice because I didn't want to be stifled by.
Providing care for the things that I knew the African American
children, youth and families needed.
So when I started my practice, that's who I targeted my
practice toward was healing trauma for African American
children, youth and families. So it dealt with the things that
we specifically encounter as a community and it was a safe
space for us to be able to talk about some of the things that we
felt like we couldn't talk about in public.
So that's kind of the the reason why I went that route.
Thank you Manika. Thanks for sharing joy.
Yeah. So I started off and in child
welfare as a case planner, and I knew that I wanted to work with
children in a larger setting. So then I transitioned to
education. And then I started to see a lot
of the things that were happening with the children be
reflected on their parents. And so when I started private
practice, I started most working with mostly black women, because
some of the issues that we face are very.
Kind of like how Nadine and and Monique has said are very things
that are things that we talk about amongst ourselves, the
things that we experience. And I just want it to be that
person that could give black women a place where they could
feel seen and heard and understood about their
experiences and safe to even talk about some of the things
that we don't say out loud. Thank you, Joy.
Sure. Sure.
So I have a passion for the vulnerable population.
And it honestly started high school where I was a certified
nurse's assistant at a geriatric nursing home in a psychiatric
nursing home. And then I went to college and
continued being a certified nurse's assistant at a geriatric
facility and then started working in Child Protective
Services at. 6 1/2 years. Then worked in a Children's
Hospital, in a primary care clinic for six years and now
working with our veterans who deserve our service, right.
And so I realized that I have a passion to help the vulnerable
population and realizing that one day I'm going to be that
vulnerable population, whether it be by incident or accident or
age, right. So it's inevitable.
It's going to happen And so the I want someone to be able to
take care of me is just as well as I take care of them.
And so I think that that's. Just me giving back, but I also,
I think for me realized that as a clinical supervisor, right.
They're not a lot of African American clinical supervisors.
And so I can't teach passion, but I can teach the importance
of our role as an advocate and are the importance of our role
to serve these vulnerable populations.
And so that's why I take pride and being a clinical supervisor
to highlight those things. And not just going over, you
know, ethics and preparing for the exam, but how can I show the
next generation of social workers that what we do is more
important than what we are maybe taught in school, right.
And so hopefully as time goes on, they find their passion.
Through the clinical supervision that's being provided.
Thank you, everyone. I mean, it's very clear that the
theme is representation. There's a lack of representation
in the area of social work that you've decided to move towards
and particularly in your private practice.
And it just shows that having that foresight, having a vision,
having a plan, having that passion, you're able to actually
move beyond that government organization and still
contribute greatly to social work.
You're never leaving social work.
Once a social worker, always a social worker.
I say no matter where you go and remember what you do.
Even though we have listeners that are across the world,
they're in Germany, they're in Australia, Japan, Hey, how you
doing? I'll just say hello to give you
a shout out. It is important for them to hear
these stories because they are part of the system that we work
within, black or not. If there is a lack of
representation, it still has an impact on them and the way that
they work and raising their awareness of of what's happening
around them. So with that being said, I think
it's key that we highlight some of your your proudest
achievements. Joy, let me start with you one.
Of my. I guess biggest achievements was
my podcast being getting to #3 of the Top 40 social work
podcast to follow. So that to me was really a
problem. Wonderful.
Well done. Thank you, Joy Monika.
I was with no one. One achievement.
I will probably say. My YouTube channel, because it
had, it gave me the opportunity to connect with social workers
across the world. And I had no idea that social
work was such a prominent career, you know, where people
had questions about how to be successful and how to navigate
their career and what was the best route to take.
So starting that Channel really connected me with a lot of
different people who are in various stages of their career.
Thank you, Anika Shaw. I think my greatest achievement
is CEO's of Social Work Networking and Empowerment
Brunch that was just held two weeks ago at the Riverside
Epicenter here in Atlanta. Again, it's a platform where we
no longer have to work in isolation, right?
But we are making connections, we're building community, we're
sharing resources and we're gaining partnerships.
So I'm excited about this community that we're building
and I'm looking forward to our future.
Events to continue to empower us as social workers to build a
solid foundation for our business and provide elite
services to the populations that we serve.
Thank you. Thanks for sharing everyone,
Nadine. I think I would have to say that
my biggest achievement has to be going back to school to study
for a law degree and I've been able to see that whilst working
full time as a social worker. So yeah, I think I had the idea
to do it during the pandemic and I'm almost at the end.
So I'm really, I'm really proud of myself.
We look forward to your graduation pictures, Nadine.
There will be such a joy when you work for something and you
you get to the end and you can celebrate, you know, and you
have a a memory to celebrate with.
So we'll be there liking your pictures when they when they
come out. So if you're in your role right
now, listeners, and you're thinking, what else can I do?
I was at an event on Monday. I had so many people ask me, how
did you set up the social work coaching hub?
How did you move from local authority to this?
What gave you the idea? Or just had all of these
questions and it was clear that social workers are burning to
see what else they can do. They don't want to step out of
the profession. They want to have an extension
of that and but keeping to the Sean, in your opinion, how
important is it for black individuals to diversify their
career paths and contribute to various industries and what
benefits does this bring to the individual and society as a
whole? Yeah.
I think it's important, one, because we are held accountable
to be culturally competent as social workers, right?
And so that means we have to. Know our clients and a lot of us
given our careers have served clients from different
backgrounds, different cultures. And I know from me just personal
experience from moving to Atlanta in 2008, there wasn't
there was not a lot of representation of social workers
or clinical social workers and so working with providers, they
wouldn't be culturally competent on how to work with African
American families. Right.
And the complexity of African American families.
And so I felt like. Me being present in that working
environment provided just the strength that that family needed
to navigate the system, whether it be Child Protective Services
or the the medical field. But I think that overall, being
culturally competent allows the client or the patient to have
confidence to know that we have the skill set to meet their
needs. But as a system overall, I think
that it just brings better insight on our commitment to
serving every population and not just doing the work to serve a
specific population or the more dominant population.
So again, I think that. We are held accountable, but it
doesn't always happen. But I think that we are moving
in a space where we are culturally competent and we
there are representation in hospitals and power Protective
Services and even in the rural areas, right, that we are
present and we are there so that our families and our children
know that they have someone working on their behalf.
Thank you, Sean. Same question to you, Nadine.
I think social work is a very hard job.
And I think burnout in social work is a real thing.
And I think in my experience, I've had numerous points of my
career where I've wanted to give up social work.
And I think being able to still be involved in working with
honorable families and and honorable children, but maybe
not be on the the frontline has really helped me to help my own,
like mental health and wellbeing.
But also kind of stick to my kind of my passions and my
goals, which is helping vulnerable families and and
vulnerable children. And I think being able to kind
of recognize that it is okay to change.
So you may be a social record for a period of time and then
change like over years. I think it's it would encourage
a lot more young social workers to come into the field because
they don't feel like they would have to stay in that until
they're able to to retire. And I think that just continues
the process of having young social workers working on the on
the frontline, but also the older social workers that get
into the therapeutic spaces or the legal spaces or owning
residential homes. It kind of allows us to kind of
be present in lots of different areas in social work where our
families are going to have to be in contact with someone.
So it's always nice to have a friendly black face that can
help and support and understand what you're actually going
through. Yeah, I had a podcast with two
care levers last week and we were having a discussion about
the difference between ethnicity and culture.
But culture is is very different to skin color and we have to be
mindful that when we are getting into those spaces, it is
representative of ethnicity and culture simultaneously.
So I'm just going to come to you, Monika, and ask you and
what are some of the unique challenges and opportunities
that Black professionals may encounter when pursuing careers
outside of the traditional social work roles?
So some of the social work roles, I like to have social
workers think outside of that traditional 3 tier system that
we were taught by macro, mezzo and micro.
I think now there's so many other opportunities for us to
explore that don't fit nicely within those boxes.
So for example, how Joy mentioned her podcast or how I
have my YouTube channel, I think there are a lot of different
ways for us to think about helping that doesn't look like
the traditional social work role, and we don't always have
to do direct practice to still have an impact in the lives of
families. So I think that's important for
social workers to know that and to also know just because you do
the work of a social worker doesn't mean that your title is
necessarily always going to have the title social work.
In it so you can explore different types of careers and
things that don't traditionally require a social work degree,
but they require social work skill sets.
So once you're able to learn what those skill sets are and
how they can transfer to different industries, I think
you'll that social workers can see that they have a broader
scope of opportunities that they could pursue.
Thanks Monika. I'm going to ask a followup
question because I know this is part of the air of your
expertise about the different types of social work careers
that people could be thinking about.
So whether you're listening in the US and we do have US
listeners in Carolina, good afternoon or good evening,
depending on where you are and what are the other social work
roles that social workers could be considering.
So one of the roles that I like to define in terms of the space
that I'm in is I define it as a social work content creator.
So that's where you take your knowledge and your expertise.
You learn how to package that up and you learn how to use social
media in order to make more income for yourself.
So it's not again just fitted in the type box of micro level
where you're working directly one-on-one with clients.
You can being a content creator in a coaching capacity, but you
can also do one to many. Where you're doing like a
YouTube channel or podcast, like what Joy does.
So when you're a content creator, you're you're adding in
your social work skills, but then you're also leveraging
social media. So I think that's something to
explore and you can do that at any level of professionalism.
You don't have to have a license to do it if you just want to
have mastery in a certain skill set.
So that's what I really try to encourage social workers to do
is even if you're new to the profession, even if you.
Don't have your license? What's something that you have a
high level of mastery in that other people might want to know
about, and that can be an Ave. for you to pursue as a career.
So I would say content creation is something that we should all
consider for a passive income stream, leveraging our social
media and not solely relying on traditional social work roles.
Thank you Anika. That's really helpful to to hear
because I had someone approach me and on Monday I was asked to
do a seminar and a live podcast recording.
And at that event I had a a stand and a lady came to to
speak to me. She's like, I've been working in
adult social care for like 20 odd years and I feel like I'm in
the place where I don't know whether I want to stay or
whether I want to consider moving forward.
I'm very confused, but I want to remain in social work.
So I said, well, what do you most enjoy about the adult
social work role? And she was like being with
people, just being there and doing the direct work with
people. I was like, there's your
business, you said to your companies.
And he's just doing what you love to do, which is probably
creating programs or something. That way you're just doing
direct work with the adults. So that's really sound advice.
Monika, thank you. And Joy, I'm going to ask you
the same question and if we can focus on some of the unique
challenges that Black professionals may encounter.
When pursuing careers outside of the traditional roles.
I'm sorry, I didn't hear the question.
Sure. I was asking you, what are some
of the unique challenges that black professionals may
encounter when pursuing careers outside the traditional role?
I think sometimes it's just hard to think.
For some people to think outside of the box and to be creative
and really like I try to ask some of my clients and and
myself too is like what do you like?
What brings you joy? What do you think would be like
something that's fun, something that might be challenging and
really encouraging folks to like tap into that and tap into which
you would want to maybe learn about that you don't hear often?
So sometimes it's challenging to to think about the what the
thing that they want to do. But also sometimes it's hard for
people to like just make that pivot and make that change in
that shift. Because I think social work
school trains us to be so one way and now I think as
especially black people, we are not.
A lot of us are not what our degrees taught us to be as we do
this work. So really leaning in on that, I
think that social media has been really key in connecting folks
and seeing that there is so much that more that we can do when a
social work degree and as social workers.
So I think it's, it's sometimes it's us getting out of our own
way. Yeah, yeah.
Would would anyone agree that perhaps culture is part of that
black culture mindset is part of getting out of the way?
Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of times we self
sabotage because we aren't represented and so we don't
feel, we don't have the confidence to feel like we can
do it. And so that's why, again, I I
built this community of social workers so that you can surround
yourself with likeminded people right when I.
Started doing therapy. I didn't have the confidence and
I was self sabotaging and I was like OK, well people are doing
it, just not my people. So let me find great that is a
therapist as her own private practice.
My goal may not have been private practice, but I wanted
to be confident in what I was doing.
And so I reached out to a another licensed clinical social
worker and I was like hey, do you mind being my mentor?
So I had to be vulnerable right? To act for help.
And he agreed to do that. And we were able to partner,
share resources. And it helps me build my
confidence. So I will just, you know,
challenge our listeners is to surround yourself with
likeminded people. If someone is doing something
that you desire to do and it's not common, connect with them,
reach out to them on LinkedIn or on social media, be vulnerable,
right. That's the only way that we're
going to make progress is if we're willing to to be
vulnerable and put ourselves out there.
Thank you. Does anyone else have any
thoughts on that? I totally agree.
My therapist at the time when I was trying to figure out, I knew
that I always wanted to have a private practice.
I just felt like I needed so much more something.
And my therapist was like, I'm sure you have over a decade of
experience. I'm confused why you feel like
you're you're stuck in in these roles that you don't
necessarily. And it's not that I didn't want
to be in the role, it was more like.
Wanting to do the work the way that I wanted to do the work
that I felt was more meaningful for clients.
Um and it. And it was her kind of mentoring
me and saying like, this is what you need to do.
This is what you need to know. And it was very key and
important and vital to to my. The advice that I will give is
to just take the UM, take the lead.
I think, as I said, you're always waiting to get something
so then you can do the the next step, but in reality you have
all the skills that you need at this moment in time.
And I think especially with social media, I think one of the
key things is taking your your audience through that journey
with you because some of the questions that you had at the
beginning, you may not have halfway through or towards the
end, but there's people kind of starting out that have those
same questions that you did and at that time.
And I think just kind of documenting that and
highlighting that is very important that it does give.
Other people that want to maybe consider a different path away
from social work, the confidence and to know that they can also
do it too. And so yeah, I think it's just
having confidence and not and self sabotaging yourself, which
is, which is really hard when you're trying to pursue
something and you don't really see a lot of people that look
like you doing what you want to do.
And then you start to doubt yourself that should you really
do it? Should you just kind of stick to
what is? Mediocre, But yeah, I would
encourage everyone to just take the leap and just give it a try.
Social work is is always going to be there.
So you can always hold it back on social work.
That's right. That's right.
And I just want to add to that, whatever you do, do not be
average, do not play small. Do not hold yourself back and
think, oh, I'm not going to do this or don't.
Don't do that. Because there's people out there
depending on the service that you have to offer.
There's people out there looking for exactly what you have to
offer. And you've got the unique
combination to offer that particular service.
And they're looking for you. They're just waiting for you to
show up. And when you show up, they'll
find you. Your tribe will find you.
So never, ever play small. As you said, Nadine, let's not
do average. We don't do average over here.
You know, excellence is the bare minimum, and that's how you need
to approach it. Joy.
I'll be quiet now. Why?
Would. We want to be average and
mediocre. That was the word I did.
So Sean, same question to you. What advice would you give to
aspiring professionals you have? 90% of what you have, right and
the other 10% is. The just doing it and
consistency, but also knowing that the sky isn't the limit,
it's just another level. So don't stop, right?
And if you see a need, or if you see that there's a void and you
have the skill and the passion to do it, just do it and the
people and the resources will come.
Yeah, There's something that you you said there.
If you see the void and it's so true, most of the time you
actually see the void. You're walking around the
offices, you're talking about it with colleagues.
Why don't they do things like this?
If you're saying something like that, there you go, that's the
business right there. Same question to you.
I would say learn how to trust your own voice, because I think
a lot of times I noticed that social workers second guess
themselves. They have a desire, an interest,
a passion that they want to do. But they don't know how to bring
it into fruition. They don't know how to take the
first step. They don't know if it's going to
be successful. So a lot of times they look at
what other people are doing or they talk themselves out of it,
or they do a smaller version of what they want to do because
they don't trust themselves enough.
So I would say, you know, learn how to listen to your intuition.
Everything everyone else has said, connect with the people
who can help you. And I always tell social
workers, make a list of knows, make a list of 100 knows.
So that way when you get that 10th, no, you won't get
discouraged. No, you still got 90.
Some more knows to go because if you let those knows discourage
you, you'll begin to think that that's your destiny.
Like that's what's made for you. And you could begin to get
discouraged like what you want is impossible or it's not meant
to be. So after you make that list of
100, just keep track. You know I reach 5.
Now I'm going to keep going. If I get 6, then I'll, I'll
keep, I'll continue to keep going.
So I would just say. Trust yourself more.
Thank you Manika Joy. I think this was said in a
different way, but something that's really been helpful for
me is that everybody is not going to be for me.
Everybody's not gonna be a client.
Everyone's not gonna like my podcast.
Or me or whatever. And and that I don't have to try
to please everyone. I have to do the things that
feel like I'm presenting myself as my most authentic and genuine
self. And that's what's important to
me at the end of the day. And and I think Sean said this
like the people that are supposed to be for you will come
and and and it might not be 100% of everybody and that's OK.
It doesn't necessarily take money out of your pocket.
It doesn't make you a bad person.
You don't need to try to fit into every mold, because then
you'll end up making yourself unhappy.
And if your goal is to do this the way that you feel works best
for you, do that, yeah, yeah, beautifully said.
Nothing further for me to add on to that.
It's beautifully said and I really hope whilst listening to
this episode, you've had a notepad, you've had a pen and
you're writing down ideas. And I just want to be clear,
we're not encouraging you to leave.
We're just saying if it's something you're thinking about,
if you're thinking about, you know what, I'm going to start a
family soon. I'm going to need something more
flexible. You can and you can do it with
the skills that you you have. On that note, I'm going to do a
whiz round because someone may be listening and say, well, how
do I get hold of Sean? I want to hear more about this
conference. So Sean, where can people find
you? Yes, you can find me on
Instagram at CEO's of Social Work.
And that, again, that is CEO's of social work on Instagram.
Monika You can find me under my name on a social media platform
such as YouTube, Instagram, Pinterest, LinkedIn.
So it's Monika Tom at Monika Thomas and then my website
ismonikathomas.com. Thank you, Monika.
Nadine. Yeah, so I'm on Instagram.
So it's social under score worker under score to under
score lawyer. And I'm on Tiktok as well, under
the same handle. Thank you, Nadine Joy.
I'm on Instagram at the Joy of Social Work, and joy is filled
with an eye and my podcast is on pause.
But there's five years of episodes, and that's called the
Joy of Social Work, Finance. You've got to let us know when
it comes back out, Joy, because we'll all love to be there and
support you. I.
Will, no pressure. The last thing I'm going to ask
you is to just think of a couple of sentences to inspire the
listeners, particularly our black social workers.
We do this at the end of every episode and it's almost like
you're writing a letter to them. So I want you to start your
sentence with Dear social worker and then just let it.
Flow Dear social worker Do not apologize for prioritizing the
needs of black families and children.
Nadine. Dear social worker and always
strive to do your best joy. Dear social worker, take a break
if you need to. Yeah, sure.
Dear social workers, this work is complex, meaning there are
many levels, but it is not complicated.
You can do this. I feel like saying Amen.
What powerful words. Thank you ladies.
Thank you so much. You have been listening to Dear
Social Worker podcast. Please interact with all of the
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You know where to find me on IG at Dear Social Worker podcast.
On that note, we will be back next week with an episode
talking about anti racist practice.
So come back to listen to this podcast week after.
So thank you everyone. Lovely to see you all.
Thank you for joining us. Bye.