Welcome to the Dear Social Worker Let's Talk podcast, the
podcast that prioritizes you the person behind the title.
I'm your host, Lisa Ron Edwards, and I'm here to inspire and
encourage your personal development, promote your
wellbeing and leadership development.
I transitioned from over a decade in children's social work
to founder of the Social Work Coaching hub.com where I offer
Trauma informed coaching, leadership development,
coaching, books and events for social workers.
Welcome to another episode of Dear Social Worker Let's Talk.
And today we have the talented Poet Care Lever, an expert by
experience for Frontline T Rome. Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you. Good morning.
When it comes to who I am always deal with, I'm a poet.
That's my day job. I'm also the founder and
autistic director of a of an aut of aut.
Of an arts organization called Literati Arts where we offer a
high quality and low cost engagements with children in
care, care levers, people, care experience and the black
communities of Leicester in a nutshell is what we do.
It's really, really touching work to be honest and people
think. I think sometimes it could be
viewed as it's just poetry, but. I love that I was speaking to to
a fellow poet. Now that I know that I'm
speaking to a fellow poet, you know, it's never just poetry.
Poetry is a tool. That's how I like to speak about
it. There's poetry.
The art form could be a tool for self therapy.
It could be a tool for healing, self actualization and realizing
and revelations about things about your past and once that
stuff you know. You write it down and you, it
becomes quite clear and you get it out of your system because
things, emotions, memories, trials, tribulations live inside
us. I was in care from 11:00 until
18, and I was coming from. The household I came from was
horrible. I was.
I was abused physically every day.
I was neglected a lot of horrible things.
I was like tortured, starved. And then summer of 2004, I went
into care. You heading to that dynamic?
I would love the listeners to hear about how you came to be in
care and some of the experiences that you you had within your
your family unit and with your aunt.
Oh, okay. Yeah.
So there was. So I came from Jamaica when I
was four years old. I moved over from Jamaica.
Sent is the language. I don't want to say I moved
because I was four years old. I didn't pick up and, you know,
relocate myself. I was sent from Jamaica to
England to live with a family member and in this household.
It was drug dealing, there was guns, whole leap of toxic things
that children shouldn't be around, just constant illicit
illegal activities, experienced a lot of or witnessed a lot of
addiction witnessing people take drugs from a very young age.
Witnessing a lot of violence from a very young age.
The way I went into care though is it's quite a crazy story
because I I lived with my with that family member for seven
years and life was really, really bleak.
My mum lived in Jamaica, still lives in Jamaica and.
One day at school, I, me and my me and my friend got in trouble.
We're messing around and we both got sent to the head teacher's
office and we're there waiting for her.
And then she comes and she lets him go.
I shouldn't even say anything to me.
And I'm like me and him. We were doing the same thing.
As a matter of fact, he was, he was worse than me.
But he's gone and I'm they're keeping me here.
And then? A few hours later now, I fell
asleep, which was that was that wasn't even unusual for me, to
be honest. I would fall to sleep at school
all the time because as a kid I was a little drug runner, so I
was the only person who knew where the drugs were kept.
So part of my part of what I was made to do in that household was
get up at any time, any hour of the night, go find it, because
there's a deal. So I'm not sleeping.
Ever. When I would go to school my
attendance was really shocking, but when I would go to school
I'd fall asleep and catch up on rest that I needed.
So I fall asleep, wake up and my head teacher has my mum on the
phone, but obviously I told you I was sent from Jamaica.
I was sent from Jamaica on a six month visa and I was supposed to
go back and this family member just never sent me back and
refused to send me back. So it when I look, you know,
something happened a year ago. I don't know if you ever read
something or you're having a conversation and then you
realize that this might have happened to you and you don't
know how to feel about it because you've never understood
this thing in that in that language before.
But remember the story about Mo Farah being trafficked?
I read the story and I thought. Way that that feels like that
feels like me because it was under the the pretense that he'd
go back to his home. The I guess the the agreement
that my mother had with my family member was, was that I
would come home, go back to Jamaica every every summer and
spend the whole summer home and that just didn't happen.
And now I'm being made to do all of these different things, so.
I was told to always tell people that I because obviously I'm an
immigrant and I could get deported.
I was told to always tell people if they asked about my mother
that she's dead. She was in a car crash and the
car crashed and dropped into a gully in Jamaica and that was
like a militant pin in my head. So anyone asked.
Mum's dead so bad there was a death certificate created.
And I I knew my mom wasn't dead because I'll speak to my mom 2-3
times a week for the most part. But soon as school would ask or
anyone would have No, no, no, my mom's dead.
So I have to live with this family member member here.
And then my head teacher came in and she handed me the phone,
which is like your mom's on the phone.
And I'm like, no, my mom's dead. And she's looking at me, giving
me the, It's like a very sympathetic, like, I know you
can, you can stop this now. I'm like, no, my mom's dead.
And she's like, I'm just going to leave the room.
She gave me the phone, and my mom's on the phone and I'm
crying because for the first time I got really good as a kid
of evading questions and ducking things and playing this role
that children shouldn't play. You know you're sworn to
secrecy. Shame when you're when you're
when you have all this responsibility and pressure on
you of there's these things that I know are happening in this
house. If I speak about it, it's going
to be really bad for me, but it's also going to be really bad
for my family. So I'm, I'm asking and I'm
having to play. I'm having to be on high alert
everywhere I'm having to do things.
That no child should do and only is like I I I thought I took
quite. I took a lot of pride in it
actually as I was growing up thinking I'm just not like a kid
and kids, you just waste your time.
You just play too much. You're too happy like while you
being a kid. When I went to secondary school,
I really struggled identify myself as a child because I just
think I always thought children were too careless.
I was like I was never allowed to.
Be that free. So only now that I've got kids,
I'm like or when I was doing youth work, I was like, no, no,
be a kid, get messy. Do what you need to do, just, I
don't know, be silly. But as a kid, I wasn't ever
afforded that. So I'm playing these roles.
And it was the first time when my head teacher done that.
It was the first time I felt like the veil had been pulled
and I've been caught. And I couldn't play around with
it. So I'm on the phone and I'm
hearing my mom and I'm tears are coming.
But I'm like, I don't know who this woman is.
I'm still, I'm still pretending that she leaves the room.
My mom tells me that she's called Interpol.
I don't know who Interpol is at this time.
My life, I'm like, what? And then these two social
workers come and I remember them.
There was this really tall man. His name was George So tall.
And you know, Lisa, what's crazy is back in January, I met up
with my old head teacher. She came across like some poetry
video and she was like, wait, I know that guy.
She got in touch. And then we went for a coffee
and we spoke about all of this. And we spoke about this day in
particular and the way I remember it.
Is not really in the way she remembers it.
Remembers it. And obviously I was a child.
She's an adult. The way your brain works when
trauma's involved, you remember things differently.
But she has no idea who this George guy is.
And I'm like, no, I know. I know he was there because.
The guy was like 7 foot tall. Obviously I'm I'm a small child,
but he was so tall and what? So this day I'm feeling it like
everyone is one step ahead of me and I'm always 2 steps ahead of
everyone and everyone's. They know what I'm what I'm
about to do. They're they they're exposing
all of the secrets and they're finding ways in and I'm like,
what's going on? So George came.
And another lady, she remembers the other lady.
And they're talking to me. They're saying that they're
social workers. They know what's been going on.
They're going to take me somewhere safe.
They said that there's been a raid at the house.
She was like, you can't go back there.
Your family members, they're going to prison.
What? We're going to take you.
You're going to be safe. We speak to your mom.
We know. And I'm like, no, my mom's dead.
And I'm like, no, he's bought your mom earlier.
And I was like, no, I don't know who that was.
Mom was there. We know that you you've been
told to do this, so I thought I'm going to run away obviously.
So I was like, okay, just before you tell Tyrone, just before you
tell us that and what was the what was your, what's your
memory of those two social workers speaking to you that
day? I know you've described what was
what was said, but delving into the nuance of that, how did they
make you feel? What was their approach like?
Their approach. I didn't like George.
I really didn't like him. I like the other lady.
Her name was Rizwana, old South Asian lady.
She's wearing a Sorry. Actually she's very calm, very
soft. But I couldn't pay attention to
her because there was this real tall man and he was so slick it
was annoying. Now as an adult I go I really
respect him. The reason why I didn't like him
is because he was too clued up and I could see he knew the way
my brain was working. And he was able to predict each
thing I was doing. And I was like, this guy, why
won't you? Why won't you get out of my way?
But he just knew it was. He had a very casual approach.
And and you know what it is. I think I've grown to be like
him in the way I engage with young people when I see young
people. What would your advice be to
interrupt you there? But what would your advice be to
social workers who are cleared up working with young people,
knowing how their their brain works and knowing, you know,
predicting their their next move?
What would your advice be to social workers who know exactly
what's going on with with a young person and they're trying
to offer them support? I think if you know what the
young person's going to do, I don't think you get in the way.
You, you follow them through with it because if you're there,
you're able to keep them safe and it's nice, it felt, I won't
lie, as a child in that moment, it felt quite nice to have this
man. He was a black man as well, who
I could tell was really taking care of me, but it felt like an
annoying Big Brother, like it felt like.
And I'm like, why do you know? We've just met.
Why do you know me so well? Why do you, how are you able to
to, like, foreshadow all of these things I'm thinking and
doing? But The thing is he didn't stop
me. He didn't get in my way.
He didn't say, you're not going to do this.
He was like okay, you want to do this, let's do it together and
we'll just do you think so By the sounds of it he has a very
collaborative approach relatable style, what came to mind what
you what you just mentioned there about the way that he held
you. But it was like an annoying Big
Brother and thinking of your experience, you know for your
family effectively as a child. Do you feel that perhaps the him
having more a more trauma informed approach with you would
have helped? Because from what I'm hearing,
that level of affection and and love and that care that you
needed as a child, that every child needs wasn't in abundance.
But yet George came along and he had it in abundance, but yet it
was somewhat annoying. Or as you say, too much.
Yeah, because no, I think what he done was perfect.
I was such a. The guarded child that that.
I looked at adults, especially adults with roles in some form
of authority or service as as that I thought they were
obstacles, things to conquer and get around.
So the Lady Rizwanna. I thought I could spin circles
around people like you because. Her approach wasn't wasn't new.
She was nice and I thought I could spin you and get away.
I know I can. I do it all the time with
teachers and different people. But this guy, he was just, he
just had me and that it saved my life, honestly, because social
workers. Say I said Okay, yeah, I'll come
with you, but I need to go back to my class and get my bag and
my coat, he said. All right, we'll go and do it
together. And I thought, okay, cool, yeah,
let's go together. My plan was to go.
I was a very small child. I could fit through the railings
of the school. So I thought I could just run
off and go to a cousin's house, go here.
And he was like, I come with you.
And I said, okay, I got my coat, I'm walking and I'm like, new
plan. I need to go to the toilet.
I can get through the windows in the toilet.
I was like, I'll just get out there.
He was like, okay, I'll just, I need the toilet as well.
So he went into the next cubicle.
I'm like, Oh my God. I didn't even need the toilet,
but I'm like, what's wrong with this guy?
And then we walk across the the playground.
We go to the car. Remember, it was a silver Honda
Civic. I sit Rizwana's driving.
I sit behind Rizwana and George sits in the passenger seat and I
told him he's tall, but he lowers his seat so far back that
he's laying down like a beach chair.
I'm looking at this guy and he's like, yeah, I'm just tall.
I just need some leg room, so I can't even, I can't escape
through that door. And I'm like, what?
How does he attest? And he's not even looking at me.
He goes, yeah, the child locks on and I'm like, what's the
point? It's making me laugh.
And then there was one, and we're driving and I'm thinking
about where I know, where I know family, friends, where I know
cousins or people I can like jump off and rent to their
house. And we're at the final one that
I'm aware of. And there's traffic and my
window's down and George just turns to me.
And it was this moment where I thought, okay, you've got me
because he said, you said, Tyrone, do you know anything
about air conditioning? And in the moment I thought, Oh
my gosh, what is he doing to me? I said yes, I do.
He said. What do you know?
Said it works better with, it works better with the windows Up
he went, yeah, And then he just wound the window up.
And I was like every, every thought that I had get out of
the window, open the door, run away.
He just. And it wasn't in.
He didn't tell me he was stopping me.
Yeah, He was just a gentle, A gentle guidance, opening up
conversation. Wow.
And I know our time is already running, running short, and
we're just getting into this. And I was going to say at the
beginning, this might be a part one and Part 2, but I thought,
see how it goes. But if you know anything about
me, you know that you listen to me.
We don't plan. We just talk.
So let's Fast forward a little
bit and let's talk about when I really want to get into when you
got into care, but I want people to know what you do now.
So if we can do a summary of when you got into care and then
we'll have to do another episode, I think it calls for
it. But when you got into into care
and I guess let's look at it from the social workers
listening perspective like how what is the best way to support
a young person who I've literally just dropped at the at
the foster care home or I'm just supporting them during their
their time if you could briefly. Maybe two or three tips for
social workers on that. The best way to support I
remember I had this I liked to call people by name when they've
done, when they've had like a good impact on me.
A man called Vernal Cooper very, very early in my soon as I got
into care. Actually, they didn't call him.
A social worker, though he is a social worker, but they called
him my guardian and I was very confused about that at that
time. So I had a foster carer, but
this guy who worked for local authority, but they called him a
guardian. But I don't recall having
another social worker around that time was him that
everything was through. And I think out of all of the
social workers that I had, I had about 9:00.
I think Vernal had the greatest impact on me.
And what was interesting was why.
Because he was first. I always missed it with everyone
else. He didn't ever, He didn't ever
like focus our interactions or the times that we'll spend
together. He didn't ever focus them on.
My experience or my trauma or me being in care.
All of his conversations that he had with me were all about me.
Tyrone, the little boy. What are you into your music?
Do you like sports? What are you thinking?
What do you want to be when you like you?
Just never. It was never questions about
anything I didn't want to talk about.
And I was I always thought that's what it would be.
We'll get in the car and I'll you know Moody and if you hear
we always going to ask me about these things or whatever and you
just never ever did and you'd always leave with get you'll
give me like a 5 minute speech towards the end.
And I'm I'm like trying to figure out what is this guy
talking about, but he's giving me some like advice or guidance
or reassurance about. About life and where I am in
life but you never hit it straight on the head of oh, you
know do you miss your family or what are you thinking about that
you just it wasn't ever. Do you get sad sometimes when
you think it was not, it was just oh you like this and you
let he'll follow the conversation with my lead and
then add things like a very, a very skilled social worker who
was trauma informed and very clear that it's about building
rapport, it's about building trust, it's about building a
relationship with you. And it sounds like that's what
he achieved as a result of that. So what I'm hearing, what you're
saying for social workers is build relationships, build
trust, build rapport, and in some cases, have a bit of
patience. Don't hit the nail on the head
straight away, just take your time, you know, and have those
conversations with them. Yeah, definitely.
He's seen me before. He could see my trauma or you
before he could see the trauma. I just want to highlight that he
saw you before he could see the trauma.
Wow. Yeah, or any or any reports or
anything. It was always me focused and
when he left and it was someone else, it just wasn't, It just
wasn't the same. And I always felt like that was
really annoying. But yeah, that that that
definitely left a real, a real imprint on me.
And he was, he was honest. What I really respect about him
as well, he was honest. He was like, look, I don't think
that can happen. Or I will see and I'll get back
to you. And if he'd said that, he would
always come back with a report. And I remember held in
comparison to the next guy who came.
He done this thing. Oh my gosh, he done this thing.
Anytime you ask him a question, he would go red and just scratch
this part of his head right here.
And you wouldn't say anything. He wasn't just scratch and you
wouldn't be consistent. Wouldn't follow up and I'm like,
but isn't this your job? And he just didn't have any any
answers or anything to offer you know it felt like he was just
always waiting to react whereas Vernal was always okay.
Let, I'll go and see about that. I'm gonna let you know what I
think now, but I'll go and see. It makes a difference when you
feel heard, when you feel seen, but most importantly when
people, or should I say specifically social workers,
keep their word. So you could then.
You know, I was just saying it sounds like it's really
important for children to feel like they're being seen her.
Most importantly, that someone keeps their word that social
workers keep their word. Yeah, definitely.
Because I remember with the with the second social worker,
something happened where so I would have some family contact
in half terms and then it just stopped.
And I remember asking him how come I I'm not and you you just
honestly, it felt like a lifetime of him just scratching
the spot in his head. I'm like, okay.
With no answer, no answer. Then he left.
And maybe 6-7 months after he left, someone else told me the
reason why that stopped. I'm glad.
Why would? I asked you more than once why
that stopped and you knew. Obviously should have been
honest with you. Yeah, and transparency.
And obviously, most of the time honesty is not easy to hear and
it creates a lot of anxiety, a lot of misunderstanding, a lot
of miscommunication. But ultimately it causes hurt
when that when it's in the way that you've just described, I
know listeners, you're probably really excited to hear more
about the road story. But as you know, we don't really
go over 30 minutes because we know you're busy and most of you
listen to this driving, you know, to work.
So we will come back for a Part 2.
But before you leave, Tyrone, I would like you to maybe give us
30 seconds of where people can find you.
And then lastly, I want you to write a letter to social
workers, starting with the words Dear Social Worker and give us a
32nd blurb from you, perhaps a poem.
We'll see of you writing a letter to social workers saying
whatever you feel they need to hear.
Okay. Okay.
So 30 seconds where you can find me social media.
So Instagram. I don't really use Twitter, so
Instagram is probably the best place to find me.
T Horton poetry check out my organization, Literati Arts.
We're doing a lot of fun and exciting things.
We've got a. A Careleavers week, first of all
called Black Care, which will be in Leicester on the 26th and
27th of October. We've got some talks, trauma
informed, expert by experience, so we've got some Careleavers
speaking on a panel, got a keynote speech and we've also
got a poetry night headline by Lem Sisse.
So please check us out on Eventbrite or literalty arts.com
and come along now my letter off the top of my head.
Dear social worker, I would like to say to all of you that you
from myself, So dear social worker, from myself to you, I
understand you have a very thankless job, for the most
part, a very difficult mountain to climb.
I look at social workers and I think.
You're always chasing the elusive because there's no,
there's no end. It always looks like it's
another layer is gets added and another layer gets added.
But you are truly appreciated. I think unfairly you go,
overlooked and I think you have one of the most important jobs
in society, I also think. That I also think that the way
the system is constructed currently doesn't allow social
workers to do the job to the most, I guess effective way and
that's due to bureaucracy, red tape and just the way the system
is constructed currently. But.
Without you, as I said earlier on, social, social workers saved
my life, saved my life. So without you, well, what a lot
of us wouldn't be, wouldn't be, you know, doing, doing well for
ourselves. And yeah, and I say thank you.
Keep fighting the good fight and always, always seek to connect
with the child, regardless of. Of what's going on.
Connect with that little. There's a little spark in every
kid. Connect with that and protect
that that little spark and make them feel like you see them for
who they are as well. There's nothing worse than oh,
there's nothing worse than just only being known for what or, or
only being known for what you've experienced or you know as as a
child in care. I always felt like adults only
ever wanted to speak to me because it was part of their
job. So they're just doing their job
as opposed to step outside of the job and just talk to me for
who I am. So yeah, and that's what I would
say. Tyrone, it's been a pleasure
having you. Make sure you check out the
links in the show notes to Tyrone's website and his social
media pages. Also visit
socialworkcoachinghub.com for the membership group we are
launching next month. And also we've got an event on
the 30th of September or on the website.
I will see you on the next episode of Dear Social Worker,
Let's Talk podcast. Thank you.