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Welcome to Dear Social Worker 
Let's Talk, the podcast that 

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prioritizes you the person 
behind the title. 

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I'm your host, Lisa Ann Edwards,
and I'm here to help you become 

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an emotionally intelligent 
social work leader and promote 

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your well-being at the Social 
Work Coaching hub.com. 

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Welcome to another episode of 
Dear Social Worker. 

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Let's Talk and Today's podcast 
is titled Creating Trauma 

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Informed Social Workers with VR 
Service manager Shalene Lemmy. 

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So let's talk. 
Welcome to the DS Social Worker 

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Podcast. 
Thank you. 

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Thank you so much for having me.
I'm really excited to be here 

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and just to talk everything VR. 
Yeah, I'm so excited. 

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And the main reason why I'm so 
excited is because I've tried 

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this. 
I've tried it so I know exactly 

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what the VR is about. 
I've experienced it and I still 

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talk about it to this day. 
The impact was so great, so I'm.

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I'm really excited for social 
workers to hear about this, not 

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just for practice, but also 
we're going to touch on some 

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personal growth elements later 
on in our discussion. 

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What inspired you to be part of 
this discussion and to share 

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more about all things? 
We are. 

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My background's in social work, 
so I'm a registered social 

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worker with over 15 years 
experience in children and 

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families work. 
And actually I came across the 

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VR about three years ago, just 
quite randomly to be honest. 

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And what happened was is I 
experienced it for myself, so a 

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bit like you and it just blew me
away. 

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I just felt actually this is 
something that we need as part 

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of our kind of social work 
training and also as part of our

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continuous social worker 
development, and it is. 

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So just to kind of give a brief 
overview for those who haven't 

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seen it, what it is, is VR is 
used quite a lot in gaming. 

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So some people may have an 
awareness of VR in gaming and 

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virtual reality and how you can 
kind of simulate different 

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environments. 
What we've done and we were 

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founded by an adopter. 
Who felt that actually we need 

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to understand children's 
journeys a bit more in terms of 

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their trauma journeys. 
Thinking about the our most 

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vulnerable children that come 
through our social care doors, 

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whether that's kind of right at 
the early stage, early help 

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through to obviously the other 
end and be in place maybe for 

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adoption. 
And what we've done is we've 

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made a library of films where it
puts you in the perspective of 

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that child. 
And it gives you the experience 

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of really walking in their 
footsteps, experiencing maybe 

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that abusive home environment, 
experiencing the responses from 

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professionals. 
And I think it's really 

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important because I think quite 
often we talk a lot about in 

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social work, child centered, 
child focused practice. 

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And sometimes it's about, well, 
what does that actually mean? 

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What does that look like? 
You know, what does that feel 

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like as well? 
And that's really crucial to our

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social work practice. 
And you're put in the headset. 

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And you are literally that 
child. 

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You are literally having that 
real kind of emotional, felt 

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experience as well. 
So it is experimental, but 

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actually what it does is it 
allows you really to be in the 

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footsteps of that child. 
And I think for me as a social 

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worker, one of the things we 
would always talk about in the 

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office is I'd love to be a 
family on the wall in that home 

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environment to really feel what 
it was like for that child and 

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for me, the VR. 
That's the closest that you're 

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going to get without actually 
being there and being that 

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child. 
Just even something as simple as

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in the VR, it places you at the 
height of a child. 

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So even if you're a practitioner
walking into some of these home 

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environments, which you will do 
and see the environment and see 

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the issues and the concerns 
around actually. 

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You're still the professional, 
so there's a different power 

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dynamic. 
You've got a different hat on as

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well. 
So you're still not truly seeing

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it from that child's point of 
view. 

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So something as simple as being 
in the headset and being small 

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and just feeling that sense of 
actually I'm completely reliant 

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on these adults, you know, and 
and there's something about that

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in terms of that complete shift 
in perspective. 

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So yeah, so it's just something 
that I felt. 

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Actually, this is amazing. 
I'm an experienced social work 

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manager at the time and there 
was still lots of learning even 

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for me, despite being in 
different roles across the 

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years. 
That actually there was just so 

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much learning and so much power 
in this experience that it just 

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automatically made me think of 
certain families that I've 

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worked with, certain children 
that I've worked with, And 

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reflecting really given that 
opportunity to really reflect on

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my own practice and thinking. 
Actually, would I have done 

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things a bit differently? 
Would have. 

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I have taken different steps 
maybe or had different 

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conversations as well and 
discussions and in regards to 

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some of the assessments as well.
Thanks for sharing that 

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Charlene. 
You're right, it does cause you 

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to reflect on what kind of 
conversations or how would you 

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change the conversations you had
with parents or with children. 

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Knowing what you experienced 
through the the VR, Are you able

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to share with us Charlene, some 
examples of specific scenarios 

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or experiences that the VR 
program offers to users? 

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Yeah. 
So in terms of how it works, is 

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our. 
Local authorities will contract 

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with us and get the headsets. 
We will train them up and then 

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practitioners will use them in 
their work. 

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And like I was saying earlier in
terms of we very much were 

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founded by an adopter. 
So it started in the fostering 

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and adoption world, and the aims
around some of that was really 

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to help our foster carers and 
our doctors really understand 

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the children that they're going 
to be caring for. 

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But then also to help them 
understand why we as the social 

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care practitioners are coming in
and saying, well, actually you 

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need to parent differently than 
maybe what you may have seen in 

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your families. 
Or if you've got children 

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yourself, how you've parented 
your own children. 

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Because actually it's about 
thinking about their journey. 

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And that looks very different to
maybe some of the children that 

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you have had just around you, 
really. 

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So it's about kind of really 
connecting the dots around. 

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Trauma, but also that felt 
experience because I think 

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there's a lot of kind of 
particularly in the fostering 

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and adoption mode and kind of 
the processes. 

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There's lots of obviously 
training, there's lots of 

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preparation and a lot of it can 
be really kind of theory based. 

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So a bit like some of our social
care training as well, you know,

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lots of theories and actually. 
Connecting that theory into 

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practice can be very difficult. 
So as well As for our 

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practitioners, it can be the 
same for our foster carers and 

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our adopters as well. 
And I think that's where it the 

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VR was born out of that kind of 
disconnect because I don't think

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everybody can translate that 
into practice in the same way or

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quite easily as well. 
And it's about how do we support

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people to do that. 
And so that's kind of where we 

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started. 
So that's where it has been 

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used. 
For the last kind of four years 

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is very much within kind of the 
skills to Foster and the 

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adoption preparation groups and 
really kind of going back to the

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beginning like you're saying the
unborn child and that particular

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experience. 
We've all been in the womb but 

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none of us can remember that 
experience. 

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None of us can really kind of 
make that tangible connection. 

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But actually what we do know 
from research is that 

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development is already 
happening. 

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You know, actually to harm is 
already happening if that's the 

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environment that that. 
Particular parent is in and we 

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can hear that and we can feel 
that. 

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So how it then kind of translate
is into training. 

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So again social care training. 
So it also is being used in 

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terms of inductions for newly 
qualified social workers and 

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your ASYES as well. 
I'm thinking about that real 

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induction process. 
So one of the ways that I talk 

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to a lot of our partners to use 
it particularly around kind of 

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your newly qualifieds is around 
recording. 

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You know, recording is a huge 
amount of social work, practice,

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think and observational skills 
as well and thinking about what 

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are you seeing when you're going
out. 

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So as well as kind of some of 
those discussions that you're 

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having with the families, it's 
about what else are you 

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observing, what else is kind of 
happening. 

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And so you can go in the 
headset, you can watch vanilla 

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films come out, and then there 
can be a task about actually now

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you record what you've just 
seen. 

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What are the variations of 
recordings you've had as part of

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that training? 
So I think what we've what we've

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got is a lot more child focus 
recording. 

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It's about actually thinking 
from the child's perspective 

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because again as I was saying 
earlier, I think some people 

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find that difficult to place 
themselves in the child. 

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So actually what you was getting
recording would be kind of these

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statements or these lines that 
you'd mostly pick up in quite a 

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few of the cases. 
But actually what does that mean

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and what does it mean for that 
child and the uniqueness of that

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child as well, you know, 
actually. 

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So what we have been finding is 
that actually the recordings are

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more specific to that child. 
Thinking about that individual 

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child and their circumstances, 
we are finding less of the 

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jargon as well. 
So you know some of these clear 

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jargon statements that we would 
get and we pick up quite quickly

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in social care. 
Because again, it's about that 

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interpretation. 
It's about actually what does 

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that mean And what one of our 
partners found as well is they 

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found from their assessments 
that actually the quality of 

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their assessments improved since
doing this piece of work. 

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You know, they were a group, A 
team that actually the 

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assessments through audits 
wasn't very good. 

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You know, it wasn't really the 
child wasn't leaping off the 

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page. 
You know, we they weren't 

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getting a clear message of who 
that child is. 

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And actually they've done this 
piece of work and then they 

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audited again. 
And what they found was they 

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knew who the children were in 
these cases from picking up the 

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case notes or the assessment 
because actually it was more 

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drilled down and focused on who 
is this child. 

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What are the issues and how are 
they impacting this child and 

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less adult focused, which is 
what we want. 

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We want to know what is the 
impact on the child if this 

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continues and then what those 
next steps need to be. 

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Thanks for sharing that 
Charlene. 

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There might be some social 
workers here that might be 

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thinking, how do I write in a 
trauma informed way? 

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And one thing that came up for 
me while you were talking was 

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just including how they're 
feeling after seeing or 

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observing or experiencing the 
family home. 

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Just on that point in terms of 
how they would be feeling after 

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kind of seeing a home or 
environment, I think the VR 

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really kind of gives that 
opportunity for that to be kind 

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of tested out because actually 
what it does give you is it 

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gives you a really difficult 
environment to be in and you are

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in that environment and actually
it really allows for. 

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Reflection and I think 
definitely for social workers, 

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day-to-day practice, you know, 
it can be really busy. 

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There's you're jumping kind of 
from one environment to the 

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next, you're jumping from maybe 
writing one assessment and then 

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maybe a court statement. 
And actually, there's so much 

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that you're juggling and you 
don't always get the time to 

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reflect on actually what you've 
just seen, what you've just 

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experienced, what you've just 
felt yourself and. 

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By having AVR experience and 
being placed in that, you 

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immediately come out and like 
you were saying earlier that 

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anxiety that you felt, you can 
really kind of use that to have 

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that reflection space because 
it's about really digging deep 

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within yourself In terms of I 
need to now reflect on what does

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that mean, what has that brought
up for me? 

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You know, #1, because actually 
what we do know is that our own 

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personal circumstances carries 
fruit in all of our work. 

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You know, our own values, our 
morals, our ethics. 

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That's really important. 
And we do obviously start 

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talking about that as we train, 
but it's about how do we kind of

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keep resetting and keep coming 
back to that through our social 

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work journey and through the 
day-to-day, To be honest, Yeah, 

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yeah. 
So I think one of the things is 

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you can use that, you can use 
the VR, you can use your peers, 

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you can use it in supervision to
really reflect on where you're 

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at, how you've kind of felt to 
be really open with that. 

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Because I think what's important
is if we're not sharing that or 

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if we don't have an outlet for 
how we feel when we have just 

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00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,120
been in some of these 
environments, we are going to 

233
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,240
keep carrying it. 
You know, and then what we do 

234
00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:58,440
and what we're at risk of is 
being desensitized to situations

235
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,240
and to environments and 
therefore kind of picking up on 

236
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:07,840
the trauma informed stuff. 
We're not really recognizing the

237
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:12,000
extent of maybe a child's trauma
because maybe what we're doing 

238
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,400
is actually that wasn't as bad 
as the house I was in yesterday.

239
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,800
What I'm hearing is it sounds 
there is a a balance between 

240
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,200
managing your own emotions and 
and then stepping out of your 

241
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,360
own emotions to step into the 
child's emotions. 

242
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,960
Yeah, yeah, exactly that. 
Because you know and and it's 

243
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,440
recognizing that because 
actually that's what's going to 

244
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,880
drive what we're writing down on
paper and what we're recording, 

245
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:41,840
isn't it? 
You know, and if we're recording

246
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,600
our own emotions rather than 
what's happening for the child 

247
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:49,240
or we kind of. 
Lessened it in some way because 

248
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:53,360
we've been in worse houses a few
days before or met children with

249
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,920
worse circumstances, then 
actually we're doing that 

250
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:57,400
childhood this justice, aren't 
we? 

251
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,400
You know, we're not an injustice
in terms of what their actual 

252
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,320
situation is. 
And I think, you know, we talk a

253
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,040
lot about reflection in social 
work. 

254
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,560
And again, it's about. 
Having the space to do that, 

255
00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:14,600
it's about being open and honest
about that, you know and 

256
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,920
thinking about what do I bring 
to the table. 

257
00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,160
And I think the VR helps with 
that as well in terms of some of

258
00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:24,120
the values and and base that 
people have in terms of when we 

259
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,840
are looking at situations and 
how much of that are we bringing

260
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,400
into that because of our own 
experiences and thoughts and 

261
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,800
opinions and how much of that is
actually the child's experiences

262
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,280
as well. 
And I think that reset. 

263
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,960
Is what the VR helps with. 
Thanks for sharing actually. 

264
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:47,280
And this is such an insightful 
conversation to hear how much VR

265
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:51,680
brings the realities and their 
child's world to life. 

266
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,520
And one thing that came up for 
me while you were talking there 

267
00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,480
was around cultural competence. 
How does it play a part in 

268
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,360
either A the training or B, the 
recording, That reflection 

269
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:09,840
process, thinking about how we 
integrate the child's world in 

270
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:14,400
our recording based upon the 
trauma informed approach that 

271
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,160
we've now got. 
Now we've done the the VR 

272
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,960
training. 
One of our partners, that's a 

273
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:22,400
really good point that you've 
made. 

274
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:28,520
So we've got films where one of 
the children is Joe Heritage and

275
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,520
it's an adoption team. 
And what they've used is they 

276
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,480
followed her story to really 
look at the matching process. 

277
00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,520
And and to really raise that 
cultural and that ethnicity and 

278
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:46,880
that diversity conversation And 
what was quite interesting was 

279
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,120
that obviously these 
conversations are being had. 

280
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,480
You know they are being had, we 
know they're being had. 

281
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,840
But actually how deep are those 
conversations going? 

282
00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,360
And So what they've done is 
they've used this Charles 

283
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:04,040
process and her whole kind of 
journey, which you can 

284
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,600
experience through the VR. 
They've used that to really step

285
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,200
in a bit deeper about what is 
the best match for that child, 

286
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,240
you know. 
So if we can't find a dual 

287
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:20,120
heritage family that reflects 
her ethnicity, then what are we 

288
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,000
looking for? 
But then break it down again in 

289
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,320
terms of the cultural asset. 
But also, you know, she may be 

290
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,320
and as she is in there, she is a
dual heritage child, but she's 

291
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,080
predominantly lived with white 
parents. 

292
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,880
Then she's moved into say a 
white foster placement. 

293
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,280
So again, thinking about her 
transitions and thinking about 

294
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,160
that differently. 
So cultural aspects are really 

295
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:52,080
important and I think what the 
VR has allowed is for that team 

296
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,920
to really dig deep about. 
So what are we looking for? 

297
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,120
What would be the best match for
her? 

298
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,840
You know given her experiences 
giving her a kind of knowledge 

299
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,880
what does that actually look 
like for her you know and not 

300
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,000
maybe thinking automatically it 
looks like a when actually it 

301
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,119
may be beef is the right 
situation for her and I think 

302
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,520
that's really important and 
that's a really kind of creative

303
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:21,880
way to use the VR again so we 
can have those non judge mental 

304
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,640
conversations and discussions 
but start digging deeper about. 

305
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,320
The different layers to this for
the children that we are working

306
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,920
for in terms of to find them a 
placement, A lifelong placement 

307
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,800
that will meet all of their 
needs and actually thinking 

308
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,560
about what is being prioritized 
for that child as well. 

309
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,000
You know, what does that look 
like? 

310
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,280
That also, how do we then help 
that child transition through 

311
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,240
the different kind of cultural 
aspects if they are going 

312
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,920
through foster care and then 
ultimately ending up in an 

313
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,680
adoptive placement as well? 
So that's just one example of 

314
00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,440
how it's being used in adoption 
around that kind of cultural 

315
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,720
competency and really digging 
deep about what are we talking 

316
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,000
about here. 
And this isn't a tip box 

317
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,080
exercise. 
You know, we need to really have

318
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,280
these really deep, honest, open 
conversations and be thinking 

319
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:16,000
about actually, because we've 
got two children who may have 

320
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,160
the same ethnicity or heritage 
or cultures. 

321
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,360
Doesn't mean they will be having
the same placements because we 

322
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:26,200
need to consider other factors 
within that as well and their 

323
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,520
experiences. 
So it's just not kind of 

324
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,400
thinking about A1 size fits all 
because we're maybe looking at 

325
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,160
one area. 
We need to consider that whole 

326
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,800
child's experience and that 
whole child's cultural aspect, 

327
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,760
you know, religious aspect, you 
know, there's so much that comes

328
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,720
into play and I think the VR 
allows for that discussion. 

329
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,040
So we are thinking about all 
those different factors and not 

330
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,560
maybe just one. 
And then actually what we may 

331
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,160
find is the placement isn't a 
good match because we haven't 

332
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,200
considered everything for that 
child. 

333
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:02,320
Thank you, Chalene, Thank you. 
Could you share some insights or

334
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:07,960
data on the effectiveness of 
your VR enabled program in terms

335
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:12,280
of promoting behavior change or 
enhancing the ability of social 

336
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,960
workers to support children who 
have experienced trauma? 

337
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,480
Yeah. 
So in terms of what we do is we 

338
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,280
deliver the training and 
practitioners will be come 

339
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,400
certified to use the VR. 
And what we found is that 

340
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,640
actually everybody who comes 
through our training already 

341
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,080
kind of qualified been through 
significant amount of training. 

342
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:41,760
And we what we found is at least
8 out of 10 practitioners will 

343
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:46,080
say actually this is will 
strongly agree that this 

344
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:50,440
training has. 
Changed how they think about, 

345
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,920
you know, the child they will, 
they will also kind of that they

346
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,560
understand more about from the 
child's perspective. 

347
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,960
You know, so actually they've 
got the theory, they've got the 

348
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:03,040
learning, but actually that real
understanding about being in the

349
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,320
child's footsteps, you know, 
actually walking in their shoes,

350
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,120
you know, and then thinking 
about what do I now need to 

351
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:13,880
consider, you know, we've got 
80% saying actually this is 

352
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,560
strongly agreed, this has 
improved our understanding. 

353
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,680
And that's massive because like 
I said, you know, you don't 

354
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,200
become a social worker 
overnight. 

355
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:22,680
There's there's a lot of 
training. 

356
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,720
You know, there's a lot of 
theory, there's placements that 

357
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,280
you would have been involved in.
And so actually, it shows that 

358
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,240
this level of learning has 
something to offer. 

359
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,760
You know, it. 
It takes it that step further. 

360
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,440
And I think, you know, one of 
the things that I said to you on

361
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,640
the day after you watched it, 
you know, I'll come back to you 

362
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,800
in a year's time and you will 
tell me what you've seen. 

363
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,640
You will tell me, be able to 
tell me how it's changed, how 

364
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,480
you may approach certain 
situations. 

365
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,400
You will be able to tell me as 
well kind of what were those 

366
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,400
kind of take away messages that 
you took from that experience. 

367
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,640
Whereas if I gave you a case 
study it wouldn't have been the 

368
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,560
same. 
And and and that's the beauty of

369
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:07,840
it, we've also had some. 
So it has been used with young 

370
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:12,000
people and their families as 
part of a Triborough project 

371
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,320
last year. 
And that was around children and

372
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,240
young people who were identified
being at risk of child sexual 

373
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,960
exploitation and child criminal 
exploitation as well. 

374
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:29,240
And again, what we found in that
is the practitioners who first 

375
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,600
done the training, they actually
strongly agreed that by doing 

376
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,400
the training, they felt more 
confident to have these 

377
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:43,240
conversations and to practice 
where CSE and CCE was a concern.

378
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,120
And again, that's really 
important because actually these

379
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:51,080
are practitioners who were 
already working in this area and

380
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,160
the VR training still had 
something to offer in terms of 

381
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,040
that They felt they had more 
understanding of the issues 

382
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,760
because they actually kind of 
walked through it as part of the

383
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,520
VR experience. 
But also in terms of that level 

384
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,440
of confidence. 
And again that's really 

385
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,360
important you know for our 
social work practitioners that 

386
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:10,920
they do feel confident in the 
work that they're doing because 

387
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,960
again then they're able to 
really kind of get to grips with

388
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,720
the work. 
But also in terms of having some

389
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,600
of those may be difficult and 
challenging conversations, but 

390
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,920
also being very self aware you 
know through that confidence in 

391
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,560
terms of what they also bring to
the table picking up on the 

392
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,520
conversation that we had earlier
as well you know and how that 

393
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,200
may impact their practice and 
that's really important. 

394
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,080
So we've been seeing some really
good results from social work 

395
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,480
practitioners using it as well 
as their results that they've 

396
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,200
seen from it being used with 
families as well. 

397
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:51,480
Could you confirm, is it a one 
off training or is it something 

398
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,760
that's ongoing just so the 
listeners have an understanding 

399
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,040
because we've got listeners 
across the world and shout. 

400
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:01,120
Out to New Zealand, I see you. 
And we've got some listeners who

401
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:03,560
may be thinking how how can we 
use that? 

402
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,960
Just before you do, I just want 
to remind everyone if you are 

403
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,600
not subscribed to this podcast, 
why not? 

404
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,120
Click subscribe if you are on 
Apple and if you're on Spotify, 

405
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,280
you're listening every week 
anyway, you might as well click 

406
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,480
subscribe and you'll get all the
notifications. 

407
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,280
Come straight to you. 
If you would like to find out 

408
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,160
more about my coaching services,
if you can, visit 

409
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,120
socialworkcoachinghub.com. 
Get involved, get access to the 

410
00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:31,480
hub. 
We have lots of resources there 

411
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,440
for you to get involved in. 
On that note, I'll come back to 

412
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,400
you, Charlene, to share a bit 
more about which the VR 

413
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:40,760
programme works. 
Thank you. 

414
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,760
Thank you. 
You did shout out New Zealand. 

415
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,280
We do have the VR in New Zealand
as well, so another shout new. 

416
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:58,360
Zealand, so yeah, other side. 
So yeah, how it works is that 

417
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,600
our partners, the local 
authorities will contract with 

418
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,200
us. 
So say they kind of standard 

419
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,040
packages, they would get 12 
headsets and we would train them

420
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,040
up and it is a day's training to
use them and then they will 

421
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,120
start using them in their 
practice and we can keep doing 

422
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,600
more training so we can do more 
specific training around trauma.

423
00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:27,320
We've got also training that we 
deliver around CSE and CECE as 

424
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:32,720
well and we will do refreshers 
and we offer support groups. 

425
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,480
So it is an ongoing and kind of 
package and program. 

426
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,320
And then what I do is part of my
role as the VR Service manager 

427
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,800
is I will regularly support our 
partners in their day-to-day 

428
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,880
practice and how they really 
implement the VR. 

429
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:49,920
So I will meet with them 
regularly. 

430
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,760
I will go and turn up to events 
and help support them, deliver 

431
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,040
the sessions. 
Also I will go and deliver 

432
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,320
support sessions. 
So again, if they're thinking 

433
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,560
about actually there's a new 
area that we want to use the VR.

434
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,760
I will go in and support them in
being able thinking about OK, 

435
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,720
where it could be used, what 
that program would look like as 

436
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,200
well. 
And if they or you've got some 

437
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,760
kind of training materials, I 
will look through those and say,

438
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,160
well actually this is where you 
could fit in the VR, this would 

439
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,560
be really helpful. 
And we also have developed some 

440
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,240
session plans that we would give
to the practitioners as well to 

441
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,880
help with their use really of 
the VR. 

442
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,600
How does the VR program not only
enhance the social workers 

443
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:40,200
practice, but also how does it 
enhance their personal growth? 

444
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,560
Yeah, I think it really goes 
back to, you know, kind of some 

445
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,880
of the Fred that I've been 
saying throughout is around. 

446
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:54,360
It puts you in a space where 
once you come out, you have to 

447
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:58,160
reflect. 
And if that is really kind of 

448
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,480
tapping into something for you 
on a personal level, then it 

449
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:08,080
really allows you to almost hold
a mirror up and and start 

450
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,440
working through some of that and
start thinking about what does 

451
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,480
that look like, you know and how
will that have some kind of 

452
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,720
impact, you know. 
And I think again it really 

453
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:24,000
allows for those opportunities 
in supervision to really be 

454
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,720
thinking about what you may 
bring to the table in terms of 

455
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:35,000
maybe your own experiences and 
thinking about how you look 

456
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,120
after yourself. 
You know, well-being is so 

457
00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:41,120
important, you know, in terms of
in any job, but particularly 

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00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:44,680
social care because I've been 
there, You know, it's really 

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00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,880
important that we do look after 
our own well-being and actually 

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00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,200
we do think about our own 
journey and our own growth 

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00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,960
journey. 
And I think what the VR does is 

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00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,840
really allows for that 
reflection space. 

463
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,880
And I can't say that enough 
because I think that's really 

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00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,960
important that we are constantly
reflecting and that's how we 

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00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,880
grow. 
We grow through that reflection 

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00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,400
process and that reflection in 
action on action. 

467
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,200
And it's about thinking about 
those different points in our 

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00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,040
journey and in our growth 
journey and having that space to

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00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,040
do that. 
Lean It's been a pleasure with 

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00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,160
you being here on this podcast 
and sharing more about the VR 

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00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,080
and supporting social workers. 
With that trauma informed 

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00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:31,000
approach, I ask every guest to 
write a verbal letter to the 

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00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,040
social workers, listening and 
starting it with Dear Social 

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00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,600
Worker. 
And it could be any point of 

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00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:42,520
reference, poor inspiration, 
whatever is on your heart to 

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00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:48,600
share with social workers. 
Dear Social Worker, one of the 

477
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,880
quotes that we really embody 
here is our police quote. 

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00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,240
We never really understand a 
person until you consider things

479
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,680
from his point of view until you
climb into his skin and walk 

480
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,360
around in it. 
And I think that is so important

481
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,760
to everything that we do. 
And so I would just like to say,

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00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:12,080
hold on to that really in terms 
of every day when you're going 

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00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,480
out to do your work, but also 
hold on to your curiosity. 

484
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,440
Always be curious, you know, in 
everything that you do. 

485
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:26,120
And thank you, thank you for 
everything that you're doing day

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00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:28,760
in and day out for our most 
vulnerable children and 

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00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,080
families. 
Thank you, Charlene. 

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00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:35,800
Where can people find you? 
You can find us on LinkedIn as 

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00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:42,440
answer that is ANTSER or you can
find our website which is 

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00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:50,640
www.ans-wer.com and I'm also on 
LinkedIn Shalene Lemmy as you 

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00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,360
can see my name so please 
connect. 

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00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,000
Thank you Shalene for being a 
guest here on the Dear Social 

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00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,080
Worker Let's Talk podcast. 
We'll be back next week for 

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00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,640
another instalment. 
I will see you then. 

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00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,160
And don't forget to click 
subscribe.