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Hello and welcome to opening the
Gates to more listings for 

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estate agents with me, Simon 
Gates. 

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And I'm delighted to be joined 
say by Mr. Russell Jervis. 

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Russell, thank you very much for
joining me. 

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Thank you for having me Simon. 
Lovely to finally get this date 

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in the diary it. 
Is an honour to have you on 

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because it has taken 300 plus 
episodes. 

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I know it's AI know it's a rare 
treat to do this, although 

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you've been on a bit of a 
podcast campaign recently 

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because I think I saw you run 
Estate Agency X, which I 

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listened to, which I found very 
interesting. 

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And then you were with the 
lovely Matt Giggs yesterday. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, yesterday, yeah. 

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So yeah, I've kindly, people 
have invited me to come on, come

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on the podcasts and I've had 
some lovely feedback. 

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So, yeah, always promised to 
come on your assignment. 

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We just couldn't get that date 
fixed in the diary. 

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But we have, we have got that 
today, which is which is 

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fantastic. 
Yeah, but I've enjoyed it. 

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Yeah. 
So Matt's keep you up. 

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He's left a bit to be desired. 
I was, I was hoping with his 

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Peterborough United fame and 
skills of yesteryear, but he he 

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as many people have wrong 
footwear. 

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It's excellent protesting long 
footwear. 

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I think my excuse at Property 
Mark One was I'd had a few beers

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and I thought that might have 
helped me out, but it definitely

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was the opposite. 
Well I think your ball's on its 

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way to you so you can you can 
practice in the garden. 

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Your in your 1977 Liverpool kit.
Joe, it's funny you say that in 

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1997 because and we will get 
into a state agency. 

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For anyone listening at home, 
Liverpool did this like retro 

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campaign this season and it was 
like it was going back 20 years 

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ago. 
It's like Steve Mcmanamon and 

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Robbie Fowler did some things. 
I don't know if you'd remember 

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this away shirt from 96. 
That's like the first season of 

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me properly, like remembering 
football, like EUR 96 is my like

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early moment and there's this 
green and white away. 

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Checks. 
Yeah, the checks. 

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So I actually bought a retro 
version of that. 

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Yeah, good. 
So. 

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Yeah, right. 
So in terms of your career, if 

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we can actually take it all the 
way back to before I think I was

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even born, Yeah, 1991. 
Gigs asked me yesterday how long

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have I been in the estate 
agency? 

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And it was quite worrying to, 
to, to think I started when I 

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was 18. 
So I think we worked out that's 

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38 years ago. 
So yeah. 

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Or might be even 39 years ago, 
yeah. 

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So late late 80s. 
Late 80s, yes. 

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And that was when the market had
gone from boom to bust. 

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It's still pretty, pretty busy. 
When I when I started to know 

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the sales on the on the board 
and I think the target was to to

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write 100 addresses on and that 
would be the sales. 

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I think in those days we still 
wrote them up twice or three 

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times if they fell through and 
sailed again. 

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So, but, but generally the, the 
ambition was to fill that white 

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board up at the back of the 
office with with sales and and 

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the 100 was a was a magic 
number. 

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So, yeah, I went through lots of
different marketplace at that 

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time, double tax relief, you 
know, the, the, the, the Mars 

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push. 
So, yeah, so lots of different, 

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different markets over a a long 
period of time. 

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And throughout almost to make 
you sound even older, almost 40 

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years now in the industry, what 
still rings true today as it did

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on your first few days, weeks 
and months in a state agency in 

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terms of what makes successful 
estate agents. 

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Well, I, I was taught from a 
very early age at agency, so I 

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started, I didn't get the job 
until I had done a trial. 

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So I had to, I finished my job 
at Royal London where I was 

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working at the print services in
Clarendon Way, Colchester and I 

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worked at Strut Daughters from 
4:00. 

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I said rush home from there, get
my suit on, get to 64 N Hill, 65

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N Hill, sorry. 
And I was given a pile of cards 

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and told to phone, phone all 
these applicants about, about 

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these properties. 
And I did that from 4:00 till 

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7:00 all day, sorry, Thursday, 
Friday, then worked all day 

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Saturday, had a 3-4 week trial 
and, and got, got, got, got a 

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full time job after that. 
And and what I, what I learnt 

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very early doors is the agent 
that made more outgoing phone 

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calls than anybody else at that 
point was the agent that would 

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open the gates to more listings 
or would introduce more people 

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to more properties. 
And think things that always 

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stuck with me was I worked with 
a guy called Lee Riley who was 

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incredibly good at multi viewing
people. 

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So, you know, I, I, I'd make a 
viewing where he would make 

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viewings and you know, for me, 
that's why I picked up very, 

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very quickly. 
Is that what somebody wanted to 

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see was not necessarily what 
they were going to buy. 

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And about really finding out 
more about customers needs and, 

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and getting them to view view 
more properties, but also work 

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with your valuers to to to to 
find a home that they they 

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wanted. 
And this was a this was a time 

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obviously with outright move 
without anything. 

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And, you know, the newspaper 
was, was the big, big thing. 

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Thursdays and Fridays in our 
location when the newspaper came

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out, that was the day you wanted
to be waiting to receive the 

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calls. 
I, I, I, I think for a while we 

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weren't even paid on incoming 
calls from the newspaper. 

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Imagine that now in today's 
world of, of agency that we 

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won't pay you on a right move 
lead, you know, because that's 

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been generated by the business. 
I wonder how that would go down.

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So it's like I started in. 
So it's interesting hearing your

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story there because I, when I 
was doing my A levels 16 to 18, 

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which I didn't want to do, I 
wanted to be in the state, I 

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wanted to get straight into it, 
but my I. 

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Didn't quite make that cut on 
the A level front. 

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I didn't want to do that, but my
parents said well if you go and 

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do a state agency and it's not 
what you thought it was and you 

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hate it, go do your levels. 
You might want to go to uni. 

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I said OK, I'll do that as a 
back up plan. 

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And I was doing my levels 
basically in the morning and 

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then in the afternoons I would 
go and work in the estate agency

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and then I would do Saturdays 
and plenty of Sundays as well. 

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So I was learning the trade from
yeah 1617. 

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So when I started at 18 and 
still looked about 12, people 

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would compliment me on going, 
you know a lot for an 18 year 

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old. 
And it's like I've already been 

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doing it a couple of years. 
Yeah, I mean, prior to I started

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my full time at, at Strat 
Daughters, I'd my, my, my, my 

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dad had got me a Saturday job, 
effectively Saturday job at a 

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company called Watsons GA 
Watsons just round the corner 

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from where I'm filming today in 
Trinity St. 

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Colchester. 
And you know, I, I, I, that was 

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my first experience. 
I can remember, we sold our own 

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house with, with, with Watsons 
and in Victoria Rd. 

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Colchester. 
And we got some colour pictures 

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came into the office. 
They were, you know, in, in, in 

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the reels and reels of photos 
that you peeled off. 

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And I was like, look at that. 
It's an amazing set of property 

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details, which I suppose 
ingrained in me about 

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presentation, making sure that 
everything that you did looked 

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good and the properties were 
represented in their best 

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possible way. 
But yeah, it's Colchester Estate

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agency through the late 80s, 
early 90s was a lot of fun and, 

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and a lot of businesses have now
been built. 

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I don't know, cultures are so 
unique in that way. 

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I feel where so many people have
expanded to open their own 

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businesses out of that this, 
this city now as it is and 

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particularly mortgage services, 
there's a, you know, three of 

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the largest providers of new 
homes, mortgages are in cultures

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across the UK. 
Crazy. 

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So is it maybe you said about it
now being a city, maybe it's 

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something to do with it being 
the oldest or what was the 

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oldest town in the country? 
The oldest recorded town, yes. 

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You like my knowledge there? 
Very good, very good. 

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There you go. 
I see you were revising my 

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LinkedIn profile earlier. 
I was indeed, yeah, of course, 

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got to got to do a bit of 
research on you. 

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And so going going back to the 
earlier time in your career, I, 

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I found it really fascinating 
hearing that story when you were

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speaking to it was both Mark 
Burgis and Rob Brady, wasn't it 

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on this? 
They're both that just how like 

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I didn't realise just how kind 
of just like relentless it was 

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and the how much like growth had
been, like you said, from where 

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you started and then all the way
up to running. 

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Spice McCall with three officers
in 1995. 

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And I can never, I never get the
exact number right. 

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I think it's sort of there's a 
few numbers band around. 

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It's around about 7070 plus 
offices of Cornerstone that were

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taken over on the 15th of 
September 1995. 

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You know, and, and and and and 
that was it. 

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I was thrown into financial 
services director was my first 

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role. 
So to take over the mortgage 

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brokers, which was obviously 
crucial because that was the 

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vehicle for repaying the debt is
to to to write mortgages. 

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Same for Aaron Estates, Town 
Ends who are now Badger 

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Holdings, Darlow's in Wales, 
Birch and Edwards up in the in 

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the Midlands. 
You know, they all took a slice 

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of that, that pie and, and and 
joined the the winter to life, 

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which was Provident life and 
sort of infrastructure. 

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So yeah, it was a very, very 
interesting, challenging time 

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because you only had the licence
on the Cornerstone brand for a 

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short period. 
OK, interesting and on. 

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So over all the years you've 
been in the industry, I'm going 

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to put you on the spot now, 2 
questions in one. 

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What's the best piece of advice 
you've ever been given and 

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what's the worst? 
Goodness me, What's the best 

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piece of advice? 
Alec Smith, the original joint 

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founder of the business with 
Paul. 

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He he, he would always be 
encouraging you not to sell. 

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Yeah, he would, he would always 
be encouraging you not not to 

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sell. 
So really, the early days of, 

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you know, empathetic listing. 
So, yeah, he, he, he would 

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always be really driven on, on 
that fact in, you know, just 

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just listen, just just just 
listen, just be yourself, show 

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interest, really build strong 
relationships with people. 

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He, he was very good at names. 
He was very good at, you know, 

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knowing everything about the 
whole person, the family and the

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children and, and, and that's 
something that stuck with me. 

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I, I, I, I, you know, I made it 
made sure that I really got to 

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know somebody. 
I didn't look through them. 

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I really looked in into them and
to understand them as a an 

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individual and you know, their, 
their, their lifestyle, their 

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things that they follow, 
believed in your Liverpool 

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Football Club, you know, 
whatever it may be, pick 

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something up that you can talk 
to someone on a level. 

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So, yeah, just just be be real 
and you'll build trust. 

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That was something that was 
always struck me, that if you 

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are genuine, yeah, and, and 
people see that and you show 

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genuine interest, then you know 
you will build that, that trust.

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What's the worst piece of advice
I was? 

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Was there to start a podcast 
with Russell Quert. 

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No, that, that was a joint 
decision. 

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That, that, that was an absolute
joint decision. 

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I can't, I can't think of off 
the top of my head. 

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So I'm just a bit of a cop out. 
Can we come back to it? 

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00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,640
It might, it might, it might, it
might come to me at at some 

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point, but I can't. 
I can't genuinely think of 

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something that I would think, 
yeah, I was advised. 

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Probably probably the worst 
advice I ever got was from my 

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wife saying we need to sell 
these bartlettes. 

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00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,160
OK, no, OK, interesting. 
Yeah, because at the time we, 

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you know, early in our 
relationship and we know we were

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selling shares of, we bought 
shares on a developer of Telford

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Homes that we were dealing with 
who said, look, you should get 

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00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,480
involved in this. 
And, and we did and, and not a 

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00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,720
lot but we sold them straight 
away to pay for some carpets in 

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our new home. 
We had a little buy to let in 

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Kimberly Rd. in Colchester that 
we sold to put down a deposit 

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00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,360
for our main house. 
And good as me, I thought the 

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other day, if I kept all of 
those over the years what would 

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00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:58,640
they be worth now? 
So yeah, bad advice. 

223
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:03,640
God can't can't can't genuinely 
think of something off top my 

224
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,680
head. 
I mean, on so on the when you 

225
00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:09,840
said about buy to let's I, I 
actually put something on my 

226
00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,040
Instagram story earlier today, 
because we're sort of 10 years 

227
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,800
on now from the country voting 
to leave the year. 

228
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,720
And I, I exchanged contracts as 
a terror story a lot. 

229
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:24,200
I exchanged contracts the day 
the result came out that we we 

230
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,800
voted to leave and the solicitor
said to me, are you are you 

231
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,040
pulling out? 
That's what they said. 

232
00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,120
I was like, what do you mean? 
I said, we've had loads of 

233
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,560
people pulling out of deals that
you're an estate agent. 

234
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:38,040
You must know like most of the 
crashes and that I went who 

235
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,840
knows, but all I know is that 
I'm not looking to move into 

236
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:43,080
this and sell it in a year's 
time. 

237
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,400
This is a long term investment 
and I've been kicking myself. 

238
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,960
I didn't buy this exact house 2 
years prior because it's gone up

239
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,200
50,000. 
And if I look back at the people

240
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,320
who bought in O seven who 
probably if you'd said to them 

241
00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:01,200
in 2007 knowing what 2008 had 
ahead of them, do you want to 

242
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:02,920
just hand the keys back and call
it quits? 

243
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,680
They probably would, but those 
people who invested in those 

244
00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:08,000
seven would be, you know, sat 
very happy today. 

245
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,040
So that sort of came to mind 
then what you said about, I 

246
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,440
guess, being a problem solver 
rather than being a salesperson.

247
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,560
Matt Matt Giggs. 
When I first met him eight years

248
00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:20,120
ago, one of the first things he 
said to me was, and he said it 

249
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,120
recently, make a sale, make a 
Commission, make a friend, earn 

250
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,200
a fortune or whatever. 
The, the yeah yeah, that came 

251
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:29,360
together. 
Well, having walked through St. 

252
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,200
Nia's yesterday with him, he's 
made a lot of friends. 

253
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:37,080
So I do you know what I I judge 
so many estate agents I go to 

254
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,800
see off of the first time. 
I think I've spent time with 

255
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,680
Matt in St. 
Neots and anytime I go to St. 

256
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,440
Neots now Russell because he 
can't walk down the street 

257
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,240
without people being like, 
hello, Matt, how are you doing? 

258
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:50,240
How are you doing? 
How are you doing? 

259
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,440
If I go see an estate agent and 
people are not saying hello, how

260
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,560
are you doing? 
I'm like you are not known 

261
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,400
enough in your marketplace. 
You need to. 

262
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,800
Well, that's it, Yeah. 
There's only two reasons people 

263
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:01,760
don't use you, right? 
Yeah. 

264
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,080
They either they, they know 
about you and they don't want to

265
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:05,400
use you, or they don't know 
about you. 

266
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,040
So you've you've got to get 
yourself out there to be, to be 

267
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:10,800
known. 
Yeah, and I was actually this is

268
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,760
I'm going off on on bit of a 
tangent here. 

269
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,240
I was sat in a pub garden on 
Friday evening with my other 

270
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,720
half Louise. 
And this is so bizarre. 

271
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,920
I don't know if I share this in 
the podcast the other day some a

272
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,640
couple were walking past and she
sneezed. 

273
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,720
This sounds really random. 
And the guy said bless you. 

274
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,760
And I lifted up my sunglasses 
and went thank you Mike. 

275
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,320
And he looked at me and went 
Simon Gates, the world's best 

276
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,400
estate agent came over high 5 
hugged me. 

277
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,040
His wife Cara was like, Oh my 
God, Simon, how are you? 

278
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:42,920
Had a chat. 
I basically bought they bought 

279
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,560
and sold through me in 2019. 
And I said to Louise, see 

280
00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,840
Arsenal, right, estate agent, I 
know what I'm talking about. 

281
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:49,520
Very good. 
That's great, isn't it? 

282
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,720
Yeah, I, I still around culture 
now see people that I did 

283
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,560
mortgages for because you know, 
I, I was the state agent from 

284
00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:04,320
878687 till 9091 then I went 
into mortgages from 91 to 95 

285
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:10,560
where I stayed till about 9798 
then moved back into to to a 

286
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,520
state agency. 
So I still see you're the person

287
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,200
that that I did did mortgages 
for. 

288
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,320
So yeah, it's you need to leave 
a lasting impression, don't you?

289
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,720
You need to and hopefully that's
a good lasting. 

290
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:28,120
Yeah, so on, so on the mortgage 
side of things, and you have had

291
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,880
Peter Brodnicki on your podcast 
and I've seen Peter speak a 

292
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,600
couple of times at Mortgage 
Advice Bureau conferences. 

293
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:39,200
And one of the real key things 
that stood out to me, I could 

294
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:45,920
not believe the percentage of 
what mortgage holders, would 

295
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,120
that be the right term? 
The percentage of mortgage 

296
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,960
holders who after a 2 year or 
five year go back to the 

297
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,320
mortgage broker who did them 
their mortgage. 

298
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,840
Yet an estate agency. 
The stats from Spectre are 85% 

299
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,000
roughly of buyers don't sell 
through the estate agent they 

300
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:03,800
bought through. 
So what? 

301
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,880
What can estate agents learn 
from the mortgage side of things

302
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,960
and how they can have a better 
lifetime value out of a 

303
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,720
customer? 
But I, I, we, we, we had this 

304
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,359
one. 
We opened in Cambridge and John 

305
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:18,319
Hunt, I think wrote AI remember 
reading an article from John 

306
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:22,119
Hunt in Foxton saying that he 
wanted to be the estate agent 

307
00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,720
that everybody wanted to sell 
through, but nobody wanted to 

308
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:29,240
buy through, but they had to buy
through you because you had the 

309
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:34,200
stock. 
And we, we, we took it from and 

310
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,920
I, I, I, I, I picked up on the 
back of this. 

311
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:38,160
So I'm not claiming it's my 
idea. 

312
00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:44,520
So we operated the Pendle 
approach to negotiating offers. 

313
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,400
So spice for call, that was very
much where. 

314
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,320
What did you call it? 
The what approach? 

315
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:55,440
Pendle it's a sales skill that 
they use in the car, in the car 

316
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:56,240
industry. 
OK, I've never. 

317
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,320
Heard of that race so I'm 
intrigued. 

318
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:04,080
So if you if you go to buy a buy
a car, you'll often in the car 

319
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,520
industry they have a controller 
that deals with the offers. 

320
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:09,280
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, OK. 

321
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:13,480
And, and very much that that 
would be around, right. 

322
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,080
You know, how much is the car? 
Well, OK, well, what, what's 

323
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,560
your budget for monthly spend? 
Well, how much is the car? 

324
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,320
Don't worry about that. 
Just worry about the monthly 

325
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,120
budget. 
And then they'll go and talk to 

326
00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:26,080
the person at the back of the 
finance and the controller to to

327
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,280
make that car work for you. 
You probably never realise what 

328
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:30,200
you're actually paying for the 
card. 

329
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,760
What you end up is knowing what 
you're paying for monthly. 

330
00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:36,120
Yeah, and. 
And Spice McCall, we, we very 

331
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:43,960
much focused on bid offer, which
was never, ever, ever concealing

332
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,920
what the vendor would take. 
And I, I know still many, many 

333
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:55,240
estate agents will absolutely 
encourage offers and often give 

334
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,880
away the, the, the fact that, 
that it sold for 270 before it's

335
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:00,560
fallen through. 
So if you could be 270, I could 

336
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:06,720
get this tied up where if that's
how I've been treated as a, as a

337
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,600
buyer, I might think call that 
estate agents. 

338
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,480
Fantastic. 
You know, they helped me get a 

339
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,560
deal. 
But when I'm going to sell, I 

340
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,000
don't think I want them to be 
representing me because they're 

341
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,560
not going to do the best for me.
Whereas if, if the bid offer 

342
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,920
process was run properly and it 
was difficult to get that run 

343
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,640
properly everywhere, but if you 
ran it properly, you, you would 

344
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,120
become known as Foxton's Esk 
Weisberg called Esk in 

345
00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:37,400
Cambridge, particularly where it
was, it was, it was absolutely 

346
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,040
perfected. 
You'd be the agent that people 

347
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,560
wanted to sell through because 
you've got top prices. 

348
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,440
But you know, maybe I don't want
to buy 3, but I've got 2 because

349
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:49,480
you've got all the beautiful 
stock. 

350
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,680
And I think it's estate agents 
making sure, you know, we are 

351
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,840
the guardian of, of, of, of, of 
the pricing of those properties.

352
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,960
And it's our job to get that 
vendor the best possible price 

353
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:08,760
in the market at that time. 
And you know, I still, as you 

354
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,240
know and, and, and Josh knows, 
you know very much, I still work

355
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:16,080
with agents now and again and. 
One of the things I will look at

356
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:21,720
is into when I was doing office 
visits on my previous life, we 

357
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,040
had offer forms. 
I'm sure it's all electronic 

358
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:24,600
now. 
I don't know. 

359
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:29,760
I don't know if a robot comes in
and does that and and and, but 

360
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,880
we had offer forms and you'd, 
you'd, I'd, I'd look for how 

361
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,800
many houses were tied up on 1st 
offer. 

362
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,440
Interesting. 
And I, I would think if you're 

363
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:44,640
tying houses up on first offer, 
you are not doing a great job 

364
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:49,280
for that vendor because in all 
of us, OK, we're estate agents, 

365
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:50,560
but we're consumers as well, 
aren't we? 

366
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,760
So if, if I'm going to buy a 
house or I'm going to buy 

367
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,480
anything, I'm, I'm probably 
going to put my first bid in. 

368
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:01,400
And by the nature of my first 
bid, that tells me there is a 

369
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:06,840
second offer coming. 
And I also think how far can you

370
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,200
go, You know, first, second, 
third, 4th, 5th, you know, it's,

371
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,480
it's, it's the art of 
negotiation. 

372
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,520
We're being paid for our 
marketing skills and our 

373
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,000
negotiation skills. 
So as an, as an estate agent, so

374
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,680
same, same, slightly different 
in, in, in, in recruitment. 

375
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,680
But you know, we massively 
encourage all of our clients to 

376
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:32,760
let us do the negotiations on, 
on salaries because we, we can 

377
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:37,520
get really honest feedback. 
But I don't think candidates 

378
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,360
necessarily give companies 
because they don't want to 

379
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,120
insult them. 
Whereas, you know, we can help 

380
00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:45,680
bridge the gap. 
And I really want Simon Gates to

381
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,640
come and join us. 
OK, we're going to offer Simon 

382
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:54,480
45 K OK, we need a little bit of
help here. 

383
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,440
Simon's not going to move for 
45K. 

384
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,360
That's per That's per month, not
per year, right? 

385
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:00,640
Yeah. 
Of course. 

386
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,600
So I've I've that hadn't ever 
even crossed my mind. 

387
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,400
So on the recruitment side, is 
that normal within recruitment 

388
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:09,600
or is that something in 
particular? 

389
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,480
No, we, we, we, we, we, it 
doesn't happen every time and, 

390
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,320
and lots of people want to make 
the offers. 

391
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,680
And if it's a complicated 
Commission structure, then we, 

392
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,680
we probably say you need to, you
need to go through those finer 

393
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,760
details with the client. 
But we, we will, there'll be a 

394
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:31,920
far greater success for us as 
the recruiter to be handling the

395
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:38,160
negotiations on both parties to 
really get honest good feedback.

396
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,600
And, and often it's the case of,
you know, £1000 a month, £1000 a

397
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,240
year is £83 a month. 
You know, is this, is this 

398
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,320
somebody you want to lose for 
£83 a month? 

399
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,800
And so we'll change a little bit
with minimum wage, as I've been 

400
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,360
saying on numerous conversations
in the last 10 days, you know, 

401
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,520
most hours in a state agency 
you're looking at a minimum 25 

402
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:07,960
to £28,000 a basic. 
So that that has that has sort 

403
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,800
of removed a lot of the the 
trainees and people going for 

404
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,120
more of 1-2 year experience. 
OK, interesting. 

405
00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:20,280
And on on the recruitment side, 
whilst it's fresh in my mind, I 

406
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,240
can't remember what the stat 
was, but I remember you saying a

407
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,920
stat on the podcast with Mark 
and Rob about the placements you

408
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:32,080
make that is it majority are 
through by outbound prospecting 

409
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,560
head. 
Hunting head hunting 65% of the 

410
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,560
placements that rain and person 
have made in last year. 

411
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:41,880
Stats for this year are pretty 
much tracking as well are are 

412
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,280
made via via head hunting 
because, you know, lots of 

413
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,800
estate agents of lettings 
agents, financial services 

414
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,480
companies have got indeed 
accounts. 

415
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,000
They've got, you know, word of 
mouth, they've got referral 

416
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,760
schemes, they've got internal 
team so that they will find 

417
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,600
active candidates. 
And you know, I've just taken 

418
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,120
along with Josh, a lot of what 
we did in a state agency. 

419
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:06,080
So you, you put a house on right
move. 

420
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,200
You find all the active 
candidates. 

421
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,360
Yeah. 
And you've spent a lot of time 

422
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:13,840
with Tom Panos to to hear him 
talk about active buyers, 

423
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,040
passive buyers. 
And you've got out of area 

424
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:21,200
active, out of area passive. 
And, and the estate agent's job 

425
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:26,920
is to awaken the passive buyers.
Yeah, to, to really get them 

426
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,120
competing against the active 
buyers. 

427
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:31,920
Was it? 
He says competition wins the 

428
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,200
Melbourne Cup. 
Yeah, yeah, 100%. 

429
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,120
I mean, so there's a, a James 
Clear quote that I love and I 

430
00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:42,560
often use and long and short of 
it is, you know, the best 

431
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,160
properties are rarely on the 
market. 

432
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,200
The best employees are rarely 
job hunting, the best options 

433
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,880
usually off the market. 
You think I'd have it. 

434
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,160
What it actually means is you 
have to go and find it and sell 

435
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:58,200
yourself. 
So to use well, I was employed 

436
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,360
at Michael Graham from 16 years 
of age of 2007 till January 

437
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:08,960
2020. 
Was I 100% happy in that job? 

438
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,360
No. 
Was I looking for another job? 

439
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,280
Absolutely not. 
But Sam Hunter rang me one day 

440
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:15,920
and went good day mate, Do you 
want the job? 

441
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:17,800
Yes. 
Why not? 

442
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,520
I wasn't, I wasn't on the 
market. 

443
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,160
But he asked the question and 
it's the same with the I'm not 

444
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,040
saying I'm the best employee, 
far from it. 

445
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,520
But the same on the cars as 
well. 

446
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,880
I'm about to pick up a new car. 
They reached out to me and said,

447
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,120
Simon, you've been a lawyer. 
I mean it's classic playbook, 

448
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:35,600
but you've been a loyal customer
of us since 2009 and you can 

449
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,440
trade in and get this one. 
And you said about the model 

450
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,960
earlier like I if you said to me
now Simon, how much is that car 

451
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,760
brand new is then if you pay 
cash, I have no idea. 

452
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,800
It could be 10 grand, it could 
be 100 grand. 

453
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,280
It's 325 a month or whatever. 
I know. 

454
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,000
I know what the monthly payment 
is. 

455
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,120
Yeah. 
And so, yes, it's interesting. 

456
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:58,080
In terms of the reason, I think 
I wanted to ask that and I knew 

457
00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,680
it was a high number. 
I couldn't remember, is that 

458
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,800
because it's 65%? 
Because how many agents sort of 

459
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,840
go? 
Oh, well, I won't, I won't reach

460
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,480
out to that person. 
I won't make that call. 

461
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,800
I won't send that message 
because they won't want to hear 

462
00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:11,080
if you. 
And it's a bit it's a bit 

463
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,400
awkward sometimes, you know, 
there may be different 

464
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,960
relationships and the the IT 
doesn't work. 

465
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:21,560
But you know, we we are very 
much will will deal with active 

466
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,200
candidates. 
We've got lots of active 

467
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,720
candidates who are curious of 
what might be out there. 

468
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,720
They're necessarily not on 
indeed or they're not open to 

469
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,280
work on LinkedIn, but they are 
curious, you know, and, and and 

470
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,120
probably the most popular thing 
I get messaged after a Monday. 

471
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,720
Is Russell anything out there 
for me? 

472
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:47,320
OK, what, what would you be? 
What, what would you be looking 

473
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,280
for? 
And a lot of clients are always 

474
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,840
talking to us about if, if 
there's if, if, if there's a if 

475
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,920
Mosala's on the market. 
Will Mosala's on the market with

476
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:03,680
we'd like to talk to him. 
So, you know, it's, it's about 

477
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:10,400
connections and for us, making 
personal connections and being 

478
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,280
connected is what it's all 
about. 

479
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,360
And who knows, there's always a 
an opportunity out there that 

480
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:21,880
somebody might want to explore. 
I think I probably have said 

481
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:26,440
this publicly before or in a 
podcast with Josh and if I 

482
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,760
haven't I'll seek forgiveness 
rather than get permission from 

483
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,480
him. 
But I didn't realise I wasn't 

484
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,680
even going to mention this in 
this conversation until you just

485
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:38,240
reminded me and dropped my 
memory that during towards the 

486
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,440
end of my time at home search, I
kept getting approached by 

487
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,200
agents saying, why don't like, 
can we book you for a day? 

488
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,440
And I was like, well, I'm 
employed, like I haven't got 

489
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,320
time. 
And I kept getting asked, 

490
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:54,200
getting asked, getting asked. 
And I was like, this thing in my

491
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:55,960
mind is maybe I should go do my 
own thing. 

492
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,440
But I was like, why would I 
leave the comfort of a salary 

493
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,400
pension holiday? 
And then I can't remember 

494
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:06,400
exactly when, but maybe late 22.
I've never spoken to Josh 

495
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,840
Rayner, but of course I know who
he is and he slides into my DMS 

496
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,960
on LinkedIn and can't remember 
what it would have said, but 

497
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,560
it's. 
Would you be open to having a 

498
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,080
conversation about XYZ? 
And I was like, interesting. 

499
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:19,880
Yeah, all right. 
Having a conversation which I 

500
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:24,400
was 99.99% happy at home search.
But again, they're that little 

501
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,480
bit. 
Well, I love the conversation. 

502
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,320
Immediately knew it wasn't for 
me. 

503
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,600
But there's so many different 
kind of jigsaw pieces in this. 

504
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:37,440
But Josh sending that message is
one of those moments that meant 

505
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,200
I went out of the comfort zone 
to the stretch zone, and then I 

506
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,040
would go do my own thing. 
Yeah, and, and, and you know, 

507
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:49,200
Josh is, has been a master and 
continues to be on, on remaining

508
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,880
connected within the industry 
and just just wanting to help 

509
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,920
people. 
And, and genuinely, that's what 

510
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,800
where we come, come at this 
whole thing. 

511
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,800
How, how can we help you? 
And we feel we've got service to

512
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,920
say to people. 
There's a, there's a, we've just

513
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,440
been presented with a great 
opportunity. 

514
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,320
I don't know if it's right for 
you at this moment in time or, 

515
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,520
or not, but we feel we should 
just tell you about it. 

516
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,800
And but hey, if it's not right, 
then we're connected now that's 

517
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:18,600
what would be right for you one 
day. 

518
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,280
And, and there's lots of people 
that we've made placements with 

519
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,480
and continue to that we first 
connected with 2345 years ago 

520
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:31,680
who just suddenly the something 
changes in their circumstances 

521
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,240
or changes in their company or, 
or whatever it may be. 

522
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,240
You know, it's, it's about, it's
about being available. 

523
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:45,200
I think an estate agency and 
sort of surrounding industries 

524
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,440
to it is, is all I know, but it 
does feel like Pete, like when I

525
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,840
was an agent, some would make an
excuse like I won't, I won't 

526
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,240
ring them because like they've 
only, they've only been there 

527
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,160
two years or I won't bring them 
there on the market 6 months ago

528
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,880
and they said they're definitely
not moving. 

529
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,920
There was a a grievance in the 
family or something. 

530
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,320
And you, I, I just kind of think
from a practical take away for 

531
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,520
any agents listening to this, 
it's like if you've got a buyer 

532
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,000
and you know exactly what 
they're looking for and there's 

533
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,560
nothing on right before them. 
And you go through what 

534
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,280
properties we've drew in the 
last 12 months, whether that's 

535
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,800
on the market with you or 
someone else and saying to them,

536
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,520
look, I know you came in from 
market, maybe you're not moving,

537
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,640
but I've got Simon and Louise 
who've identified your home. 

538
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,800
If I can get you the price you 
wanted, would you consider a 

539
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,320
move? 
And that's like such an easy 

540
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,320
thing to do. 
But I think too many these days 

541
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,280
go well, they came from market 
for a reason. 

542
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,080
If you if you go back to your 
first question on mortgage 

543
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:42,800
services, just playing that 
through my mind. 

544
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:49,000
I, I, I know so I'm such the 
hottest day of the year, Simon 

545
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,920
today, isn't it so Jack Adams of
We are Mortgages has kindly let 

546
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,640
me use his where my daughter 
works uses air conditioned 

547
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,240
little studio here. 
So for, for the price of a nice 

548
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,920
latte and, and, you know, in 
talking to Jack and, and knowing

549
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,720
Jack, they, they, they write to 
everybody on the anniversary of 

550
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,760
every single mortgage. 
And much easier now with AI and,

551
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:18,960
and, and emails, I think before 
end of term, end of product 

552
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,120
term. 
So three months before most 

553
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,880
mortgage brokers I know will be 
writing to you to say your five 

554
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,200
year fixed rate, 2 year fixed 
rate end of term is coming up. 

555
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,320
So let's get talking about that 
now. 

556
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,160
And all, all, all, all estate 
agents or a lot of estate 

557
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,160
agents, you know, are and we, we
have the term new business 

558
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,160
junkies. 
So we're all about new, new, 

559
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,120
new, new, new, new go outdoor 
knocking. 

560
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:49,200
Go drop a load of leaflets, buy 
the latest propensity and piece 

561
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,400
of kit and and you know what are
the, you'll know the stats 

562
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:54,600
because that's what you do 
Simon. 

563
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,120
But you know, if you've got a 
two year fixed mortgage, you'll 

564
00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:59,680
get fixed rate mortgage. 
You're going to need to re 

565
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,680
mortgage in two years and in 
it's a five year, it's a 

566
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,240
whatever it may be. 
So probably in a 10 year period 

567
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:14,160
you are going to be able to work
with that customer maybe maybe 4

568
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:15,960
times. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

569
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,040
What's the average time that 
people move now in the UK? 

570
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,680
Depends which way you look at 
the stats, but just an easy way 

571
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,240
to say it is once a decade. 
OK, yes, I was going to say once

572
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,280
every 10 years I've I've seen 
we've did we did it a lot, a lot

573
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,400
of agents try and do it. 
So anniversary card, you know, 

574
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,280
you've now been in your house 
for one year. 

575
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,800
Would you like an up to date 
valuation according to, you 

576
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,360
know, my automated model, your 
house is now worth this. 

577
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:46,560
Have you done anything to your 
house? 

578
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,920
I think they are the sort of 
things that when the market 

579
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,840
tightens, they're they're the 
things that get cut straight 

580
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,440
away because they're not seeing 
a payback for it because you're 

581
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,760
not going to see a payback for 
it because it takes years. 

582
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,800
And you know, the whole, the 
whole piece around self-employed

583
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:11,480
again and coming back to 
recruitment nutrition in a state

584
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:17,360
agency is still running at 
somewhere between 42 and 50%. 

585
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,200
Now that may be at certain 
levels, but if half of your 

586
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:27,800
workforce are leaving every 
year, you're not making that 

587
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,040
continual connection. 
I, I, I know just from our own 

588
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,320
experience of trying to fill 
mortgage advisor roles, you 

589
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:39,560
know, mortgage advisors are far 
more consistent. 

590
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,680
They stay because they're 
building up that client bank. 

591
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,560
And if you've had two or three 
years of writing good mortgages,

592
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,800
you've got another 10 years of 
writing good mortgages. 

593
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,120
So you know, it's, it's either 
that people will go to 

594
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,280
self-employed ARM and still look
after their client bank or 

595
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,880
they'll be looking well looked 
after by their, by their company

596
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:01,400
because they, they're doing 
well. 

597
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,880
You know, if that attrition 
number, which I know a lot of 

598
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,600
companies are really drilling 
into, which is great to see is 

599
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:13,520
if you can reduce that attrition
number, then of course you're 

600
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,280
going to get repeat business. 
Because Mike, who tells you 

601
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,880
you're the best estate agent in,
in, in your location, as you 

602
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,360
mentioned, from the pub, will 
still know where you are and 

603
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,199
will go back to the office. 
And if he went back looking for 

604
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:28,000
you in that branch and you're 
not there, he's thinking, well, 

605
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,000
my connection was with the 
person, not the company. 

606
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,960
So my I couldn't on that point 
of of the gentleman Mike, I 

607
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,239
couldn't help but think like 
walking home, the sad person 

608
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:46,440
that I am mum is like shut up. 
Simon was as I imagine if I was 

609
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,080
to go be an estate agent 
tomorrow and join one of the 

610
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,760
self-employed models. 
And yes, you can go in door 

611
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,400
knock and let her drop, which is
which is of course a strategy to

612
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,840
do. 
But business development starts 

613
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,720
at home and you got so many 
contacts in your phone who 

614
00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:01,120
already know, like and trust 
you. 

615
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,400
And I just walked home going. 
I'd literally, if I was to 

616
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,520
certainly you could do it as a 
WhatsApp broadcasters, but I 

617
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,080
could pick up the phone or 
WhatsApp. 

618
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,320
Mike. 
Hey, Mike, obviously it's great 

619
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,160
to see you in in the pub a few 
months ago, just to let you 

620
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,120
know, actually start my own 
estate agency. 

621
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,520
I know, like, you were huge fans
at the time. 

622
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,720
Like, would you do us a favour? 
Anyone you know thinking of 

623
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:21,280
moving home? 
If you send them my way, I'd 

624
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:22,240
really appreciate it. 
Yeah. 

625
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,520
Yeah, people. 
People love to help people. 

626
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,840
So ask you for recommendations, 
ask you for referrals. 

627
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,480
You know, I, I, I, I encourage, 
I talk to our franchisees that 

628
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,320
it's almost the biggest 
endorphin you can get is to help

629
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,600
somebody else. 
So, you know, if you, if you ask

630
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,160
for referrals and people often 
will give them with, with 

631
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,000
pleasure and, and, and gusto. 
Since you say, if you were to 

632
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,080
open an estate agent and join a 
self-employed model, why, why 

633
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,480
would you think that's the first
option for you, Simon? 

634
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,600
Is it 'cause you I, I thought 
you'd want a big Gates and Co, 

635
00:35:54,600 --> 00:36:00,120
you know, lovely big office, 6 
negs out there doing valuers 

636
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:00,520
what? 
Hang on. 

637
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,120
A minute who's who's podcast is 
this? 

638
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,520
It's a very interesting point. 
I, I think I went to well, I 

639
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,400
think this is 2 two ways of 
answering this. 

640
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,720
Went to that point initially 
because I'd say most of the 

641
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:19,840
conversations I have is I don't 
think a week goes by where I 

642
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,880
don't have someone say to me, 
I'm on the High Street, I'm 

643
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,680
looking at going self-employed. 
Which brokerage would you 

644
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,120
recommend? 
And I normally say, well, 95% of

645
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,440
it is down to you rather than 
the brokerage you're associated 

646
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,600
with. 
Like you need to be in it to win

647
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,960
it. 
And if I was to quit everything 

648
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,600
I'm doing and I was to go sell 
houses again, I kind of feel 

649
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,680
like going to one of the 
brokerages is a bit of a, a 

650
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,160
shortcut, a bit of a CHEAT 
SHEET, something there. 

651
00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:52,640
Quickly. 
Yeah, yeah, I can see that and 

652
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,880
I'm sad. 
But I think that whilst we're on

653
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,120
that subject, what I find 
interesting and something I did 

654
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,480
want to touch on with you is 
that I, I get it. 

655
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,720
I'm not, I'm not, I'm not bad 
mouthing here. 

656
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:08,480
But someone goes self-employed 
and they say, and I'll put a 

657
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,480
post up on social media today, 
which will be something like if 

658
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,200
you're sat in an office with no 
air conditioning and you've had 

659
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,040
to ask your boss to take your 
tie off, is it time to go 

660
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,880
self-employed? 
But it's like they go 

661
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,560
self-employed and they say I 
will deal with you from start to

662
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,160
finish. 
You won't be palmed off to a 

663
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,200
sales progressor, a junior da, 
da, da, da, da, whatever. 

664
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:28,320
You'll deal with me in start to 
finish. 

665
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,040
And they do such a good job that
they sell lots of houses, they 

666
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:33,960
drum loads of business. 
They then have to start 

667
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,640
employing people. 
Then they need somewhere to have

668
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,800
these people so they don't go 
and get an office. 

669
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,440
It's like so the exact thing 
that you you. 

670
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,560
Didn't want to be. 
You didn't want to be you've 

671
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,800
turned into so as much as I'm as
guilty as an expert on this 

672
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,640
podcast of a few 100 episodes of
having digs here and there at 

673
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,760
the bigger organisations. 
You were at the head of one of 

674
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,680
the biggest organisations in the
country. 

675
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,160
So can we talk about the 
importance of systems and 

676
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,800
processes and and what the big 
companies do get right? 

677
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,640
Yeah, I mean, when, when, when 
you're running a lot of people, 

678
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:08,120
This has come up in every 
podcast. 

679
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:13,360
You know, I don't work for a 
corporate and I I, I think it's 

680
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,720
all about the individual. 
We we looked for what we called 

681
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:19,400
the compliant best, the people 
who want to be in a structure, 

682
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,800
want to follow a process, you 
know, would push the boundaries 

683
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,840
to a certain point because we 
wanted that independent spirit. 

684
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:32,840
And you know, I'm, it is, it is 
all about that personal choice. 

685
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,880
I I really do believe in, you 
know, what type of person are 

686
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,360
you? 
And did I, did I see you were 

687
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,280
reading surrounded by idiots the
other day? 

688
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,440
It wasn't. 
Wasn't me, but I it's. 

689
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,560
A, it's a, it's a fascinating 
book and it's a, it's a 

690
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,680
brilliant read. 
And it, you know, anybody who's 

691
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,480
managing teams or managing 
people should read that book 

692
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:58,040
because it will just help you so
much to understand who people 

693
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,320
are and how you get the best out
of them. 

694
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,480
And why all, all the Reds need 
to go and work for themselves, 

695
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,680
you know, and, and because they,
they will struggle to work in a 

696
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,880
structure. 
But for some people, they can 

697
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,120
grow out in a, in a structure, 
be, be the best sales 

698
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,120
progressor, the best branch 
manager, the best area manager, 

699
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,080
whatever it may be in that role 
and, and do really, really well.

700
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,480
And you know, we had a the Spice
heart way. 

701
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,720
I'm still it's still going in 
some way, shape or form, which 

702
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:31,480
was just the best practices of 
the original Spice McCall. 

703
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:37,560
And then what we learnt from the
top offices in that business by 

704
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:42,360
observationally watching, 
learning and thinking, right? 

705
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,200
We need to now take that and 
replicate it over the rest of 

706
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,320
the business. 
Talking to Chris Rossendale at 

707
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,440
the Connells Group, you know, 
very similar, doing the same, 

708
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,560
simplifying their business, 
making it easier for them to, to

709
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,440
people to work within and work 
with. 

710
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,760
And when you drill into some of 
the branch numbers that some 

711
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,880
businesses are doing, whether 
they be an independent, a 

712
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,120
corporate or someone 
self-employed, there's some 

713
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:16,680
people doing some exceptional 
numbers because that model is 

714
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,600
right for them. 
So like I've had so many people 

715
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,520
on the on the podcast over the 
past few years who've been in 

716
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,920
the environment you're talking 
about who then decided they want

717
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:28,720
to go do their own thing. 
And they've absolutely 

718
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:31,600
flourished because of that. 
And I kind of like something 

719
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,440
Matt Giggs is a great example, 
having come from Countrywide. 

720
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,440
And then Shane Harris, who you 
obviously know very well on the 

721
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,400
episode, I think of Spencer 
Gilbert and Perry Rose. 

722
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,000
And I can imagine those two are 
ones who like to push boundaries

723
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,240
when they're employed. 
They, they, they, they, they 

724
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:50,680
were all of them, you know, 
were, were, were incredible and 

725
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,640
probably what the business did 
at the time or is, is sometimes 

726
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,800
you, you move too much to that 
one glove flits all. 

727
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,120
And they, they tried to flex it 
with the elite program. 

728
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,280
I'm I'm aware how that that goes
now, but trying to give people a

729
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,400
bit more freedom and, and the 
price of independence's 

730
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,680
performance. 
But you, you, you, you, you. 

731
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:16,680
You can't clip wings of free 
spirits too, too much so, yeah. 

732
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,560
And but they're all if you ask 
them all. 

733
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,080
And I spend time with Spencer 
and Perry. 

734
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:23,600
I saw them at property mark one 
the other day. 

735
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,840
You know, they, they used to 
still talk affectionately, 

736
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,600
fondly of those previous days. 
And then they talk about the 

737
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:34,280
growth pains they're having with
staff and. 

738
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:40,080
People, the things that they 
maybe would moan about back 

739
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,560
then, they now several years. 
Obviously hindsight's a 

740
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,040
wonderful thing, but then 
they're like, I get it now, like

741
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:47,520
my. 
We're all going to make a 

742
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,520
mistake seven years in. 
I mean, Shane, Shane and Mark, 

743
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,880
you know, Shane's comments on 
your podcast were absolutely 

744
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,440
flatteringly wonderful. 
They were so kind of him. 

745
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,280
But you know, he, he, he was the
person that's doing the work. 

746
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,760
He's the him and Mark taking the
risks. 

747
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,440
They've built an incredible 
business and they're, they're 

748
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,920
passionately wedded to that High
Street having just opened, yeah,

749
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,520
another office. 
And you know, they, they will 

750
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,720
just keep pushing boundaries 
and, and installing the belief 

751
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:20,280
in their people as I didn't 
change. 

752
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,600
But his belief was there anyway.
He didn't. 

753
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,680
He didn't need that. 
In terms of like work ethic, 

754
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,680
having spent a fair bit of time 
with Tom Panos over the last 

755
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,760
couple of weeks, when he's sort 
of talking about AI and it's 

756
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,160
like AI can't outsource push 
ups. 

757
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,200
Obviously we call them press OPS
I think in the UK, but like 

758
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,400
you've still got to actually do 
the work. 

759
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,280
I see plenty of agents being 
like, can't I just pay someone 

760
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,200
to do it? 
And it's like you, you've got 

761
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,280
all this stuff that can help 
you, but it's not there to 

762
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,480
substitute. 
It's there to enhance what 

763
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,960
you're doing so you can spend 
more time in living rooms having

764
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,160
conversations and doing the 
business. 

765
00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:58,480
Jimmy Carter, did you listen to 
the Jimmy Carr podcast with 

766
00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:01,400
Stephen Barner? 
I think it was. 

767
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:02,800
I think it's been on a couple of
times. 

768
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,240
I have listened to it, yeah. 
Yeah, most people talk, you 

769
00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:07,760
know, think Jimmy Carter is 
going to be comedy and 

770
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,960
everything, but it's it was it 
was absolutely fascinating and 

771
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:12,800
brilliant. 
And I think he said the beetles 

772
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,560
weren't worried about the 
bootleg beetles because you 

773
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,200
know, in in in AI terms, you've,
you know, Oasis aren't worried 

774
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,800
about an Oasis. 
You've got to, you know, you 

775
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:29,520
steep keep creating original 
content, original products and 

776
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:33,840
original customer interaction 
that builds true empathy. 

777
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,960
What AI can help you do is say, 
right, these are the 1st 100 

778
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:42,240
people you should call in, in my
belief, because these people are

779
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:44,480
active on your website right 
now. 

780
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:51,320
So, you know, I went to see how 
the iceberg system worked just 

781
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,240
out before I went on the podcast
because I thought, I don't want 

782
00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:56,520
to go on the podcast just to 
talk about my journey. 

783
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,640
I was trying to understand what 
their journey was. 

784
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,560
So I went to see how that works 
in, in an estate agent's office.

785
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,200
So in Harris Wood and and they 
they were showing me how you 

786
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,880
know, you can see that Simon 
Gates is on your website now and

787
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,960
actually you valued Simon Gates 
house four years ago. 

788
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,560
So give Simon Gates call. 
So it's like a is got you in the

789
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,880
race. 
It's like teed you up and it's 

790
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:21,760
like right now you've got to hit
that home run. 

791
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,000
The human still needs to be 
involved with it. 

792
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,640
And just at the timing of this 
podcast as well, again, one of 

793
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,640
the massive takeaways, the key 
take away that I've already 

794
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:35,320
implemented to speed to action 
from what Tom was saying was the

795
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,240
walk and talk videos. 
So I've done plenty of stuff in 

796
00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:41,120
studios. 
Several years ago, I'd literally

797
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,560
hit record and I'd be sat in 
this office at home, but it'd be

798
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,520
just very much me talking at the
screen. 

799
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:49,120
So I've done a few of these 
walking talks which have gone 

800
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,480
incredibly well. 
Now I'm using AI to help me 

801
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,920
prepare. 
Some people might realise that, 

802
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,480
they might not, but I've still 
got to look you in the eye of a 

803
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,440
camera and record that content 
and have that conversation. 

804
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:07,240
So AI is making it easier for me
to have the conversation, but 

805
00:45:07,240 --> 00:45:09,800
then I still have to have it. 
Yeah, yeah. 

806
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,760
And and you know, TomTom panel 
spoke at several of our 

807
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,080
conferences. 
He was he was incredible and 

808
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:20,760
huge foresight of Paul to have 
brought him over and you know, 

809
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,760
one of the first ones to bring 
Tom into the country and you 

810
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,920
know, our our team's absolutely 
loved it. 

811
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,280
I'm sure they're still using a 
lot of that content today as 

812
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,160
your tribe got your vibe and 
getting your push ups on the 

813
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,880
stage and etcetera. 
And and you know, lots of 

814
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,040
mentoring and and one on ones. 
He he he was brilliant. 

815
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,920
He's an inspiration and you 
know, I think that and a lot of 

816
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:46,880
what he talks about and the 
referrals and the 

817
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:51,560
recommendations and, you know, 
making sure that everybody in 

818
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:57,400
your marketplace knows who you 
are and what you do is is what 

819
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,200
it's all about. 
Whether you're employed, 

820
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:05,920
self-employed or, you know, in 
financial services or in in in 

821
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,760
lettings or in 80. 
Is there anybody else that you 

822
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,360
know that you think would 
benefit from my service? 

823
00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:13,640
Oh yeah. 
So, right, so a couple points, 

824
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,160
what you said that the amount of
agents I speak to and the 

825
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,760
classic line where it is a badge
of honor of where does your 

826
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,440
business come from? 
It's all referrals, sorry, 

827
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,080
referrals, recommendations, word
of mouth and I'm still shocked 

828
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,640
how many times ago interesting 
how many times you ask for 

829
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,280
recommendations. 
I go, I don't. 

830
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:34,520
So your business comes from 
recommendations. 

831
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,520
You're not even asking for it. 
Imagine if you just said to each

832
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,200
person who's one of a person you
can introduce me to to help move

833
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,080
home in 2026. 
You do a lot more business and 

834
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:48,440
then you mentioned. 
It's it's, but it's, it's very 

835
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,040
valuable in recruitment. 
So I've just moved you out of 

836
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:53,920
your company because you're very
unhappy there. 

837
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,560
So if you're unhappy, is 
everyone else that's unhappy? 

838
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,320
Oh, yeah. 
Give James a call. 

839
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,040
He's, he's proper. 
He's proper unhappy. 

840
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,960
At home, at home search, there 
were BDMS making hundred calls a

841
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,440
day. 
I was not someone who wanted to 

842
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,720
cold call estate agents. 
I say to an agent, look, you're 

843
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:12,320
a brilliant estate agent who's 
one other agent, you know, that 

844
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,920
doesn't compete with you, you 
think would get true value out 

845
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,320
of using home search. 
Introduce me. 

846
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:19,280
Bang. 
There we go. 

847
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:20,960
So, yeah. 
Love it. 

848
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,960
So you mentioned something 
earlier and it reminded me of 

849
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,560
Make Mondays Matter. 
How long? 

850
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,800
How long has Make Mondays Matter
been going for now? 

851
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,160
Six years and 5 1/2 years. 
Six years. 

852
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:41,600
Every every Monday. 
Every Monday, Well, I, I will do

853
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,320
48 of them a year and then maybe
some people might step in 

854
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,160
depending where I, I am. 
I mean, I've often done it when 

855
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:52,720
I'm away or abroad or or at an 
event, but yeah, yeah, every 

856
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:56,040
single Monday without fail. 
So yeah. 

857
00:47:56,240 --> 00:47:59,280
Because and the whole purpose of
it, Simon, is not because I'm, 

858
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,920
you know, need to get some 
energy out of my, myself on a 

859
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,880
Monday morning. 
It's because 60, according to I 

860
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,960
think it was Harvard, 65% of 
people dread going to work on a 

861
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,880
Monday. 
So they've got the Monday Blues 

862
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:18,880
that leads to stress that leads 
to anxiety, leads to rouse leads

863
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:23,920
to dysfunctional behaviour, 
which is why in in our charity 

864
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:25,680
events that we do the paddle, 
etcetera. 

865
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:31,200
We raise money for mind who also
will say that the Monday Blues 

866
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:35,120
is is a real thing. 
And because we only work in 

867
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:40,800
sector, so our, our clients, 
either the B to B world or in 

868
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,160
estate agency or lettings don't 
come to us saying, can you find 

869
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:50,600
me a barista who wants to become
a block manager or an estate 

870
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:52,240
agent? 
They, they, they can find those 

871
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:57,000
types of candidate themselves on
indeed, etcetera, or just by 

872
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,120
going and getting great service 
from somebody. 

873
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:00,680
And you know, we did a lot of 
this. 

874
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,440
You, you think I was the estate 
agent, I was a recruiter for, 

875
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,640
for many years. 
You know, we, we, we get served 

876
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:12,040
by somebody in a restaurant, 
somebody in a Currys PC World, 

877
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,880
you know, have you thought about
being an estate agent because 

878
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:19,200
it's still perceived as a oh, 
estate agent company car, mobile

879
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,440
phone, you know, see it as a 
step up. 

880
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:27,320
So we, we, that's my train of 
thought is I'm just getting too 

881
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,440
excited make money. 
So we only move in sector. 

882
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:34,480
So if you're unhappy with the 
company that you're working 

883
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:39,560
with, firstly, is that because 
you are, you know, fighting 

884
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,080
everything all the time? 
Because, you know, if you, if 

885
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,640
you work for McDonald's, you 
know, you have a process to 

886
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,320
follow and you, you don't sort 
of suggest that they might want 

887
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,960
to put a bit of extra salt on or
cook the chips a little bit 

888
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:55,280
longer. 
You follow the process. 

889
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:57,960
So if you choose to work for an 
organization, I think you should

890
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:02,320
go all in on that organization. 
But if you are truly unhappy or 

891
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,560
you've got a boss that you know,
you just don't connect with or 

892
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,160
whatever it may be, then we can 
move you. 

893
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,760
We we can help you move to 
another business in the same 

894
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,160
industry. 
That means on a Sunday night, 

895
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,240
you're looking forward to going 
to work on on on a Monday, 

896
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:22,840
you're happy. 
And you know, happiness is just 

897
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:28,240
the be all and end all for me on
this journey we all call life 

898
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:30,440
because you don't look back 
there. 

899
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,720
You're 85 years old and go, that
was pretty shit. 

900
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,120
You want to think that was 
pretty, pretty good. 

901
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,160
So yeah, make, make Mondays 
matter. 

902
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:43,240
Is is what it's all about. 
And our statistics will show 

903
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:49,520
that everybody we have moved and
placed has moved for a better 

904
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:56,600
salary and benefits. 
So we we don't move people 

905
00:50:56,720 --> 00:51:00,520
sideways. 
People will be moved for a a 

906
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:04,440
beneficial move, which hopefully
means that they're getting a 

907
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,760
beneficial mindset. 
Interesting. 

908
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:09,200
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

909
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:14,160
I couldn't help but think that, 
you know, just how much time we 

910
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,240
spend at work throughout our 
life. 

911
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,920
If you're not happy in your work
life, how that is going to 

912
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,680
overflow into your personal 
life, like you're waking up 

913
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:27,680
miserable, going home miserable.
It's super. 

914
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:30,680
Important to drink more. 
All the bad stuff. 

915
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,440
A lot more, yeah. 
And and you're not genuine. 

916
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:38,720
So, you know, being real is what
it's all all about for us. 

917
00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:43,720
And it was one Monday when I did
did the video of piss. 

918
00:51:43,720 --> 00:51:46,160
Let's do some video. 
Let's get I did video heavily 

919
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,080
before, but let's get jobs out 
there. 

920
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:49,920
No one else is doing that in our
space. 

921
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:52,920
Lots of people maybe try, but 
then they drop off. 

922
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:54,960
So you've got to be consistent 
as you know, if you're going to 

923
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,240
do anything, you've got to be 
consistent whether people are 

924
00:51:58,240 --> 00:52:02,360
giving you feedback or not. 
But, and I think I just said we 

925
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:06,720
can help make your Mondays 
matter and that that's stuck, 

926
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,280
it's got a bit more of a reason 
behind it. 

927
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,200
Yeah, I love, I love. 
Love the other days are 

928
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,200
available, but if you get Monday
right you probably get the rest 

929
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:17,080
of the week. 
Right, Yeah, yeah. 

930
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,160
But I think it's it's it's it's 
great. 

931
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:23,280
Like having a a tagline. 
I'm sure people come up to you 

932
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,000
at conferences, Russell Make 
Mondays matter, and I. 

933
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,760
Was at the Chelsea Flower Show 
last year and with my wife and 

934
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,320
we the first time we've been was
her birthday tree. 

935
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,680
Right We're going to go and do 
this and this lady just walked 

936
00:52:35,720 --> 00:52:39,760
out of nowhere. 
And when make Mondays matter? 

937
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,320
Brilliant. 
She said tell Josh I'm here. 

938
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,760
So yeah, suddenly Mr. Rainn is 
on the on, on the on the 

939
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,720
FaceTime and then off, off we 
go. 

940
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,720
Fantastic. 
And you mentioned on the, the 

941
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,320
consistency thing, I've, I've 
got a touch on that because if 

942
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:57,080
you, if you just said sort of 5 
1/2 years, we we must be talking

943
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:00,040
almost 300. 
Yeah, I think I did. 

944
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:03,560
Mondays matter. 
It was my six year anniversary I

945
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,320
think and on the 1st of June and
I I worked out something like 

946
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:10,440
we've done the 365 Mondays 
matter. 

947
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,720
Crazy. 
So anyone listening to this a 

948
00:53:13,720 --> 00:53:17,400
lot of the time, and I've, I've 
interviewed loads of people on 

949
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,920
this podcast, have gone to loads
of events inside outside of 

950
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:21,240
industry. 
And you're like, right, what's 

951
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:23,320
this like magic ingredient? 
What's this silver bullet? 

952
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:27,800
And it's like consistency and 
most agents quit before momentum

953
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:29,680
arrives. 
Make sure you set the game long 

954
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,720
enough to to be there longer 
than than your other 

955
00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:35,480
competitors. 
Yeah, and, and you know, 

956
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:39,360
whatever you do, prepare, get, 
you know, we're a big event 

957
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:43,040
tonight in London. 
So we're at the Long Res event. 

958
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:45,200
So we're sponsoring the Long Res
event. 

959
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,200
You know, we've, we've made sure
we announced that we're going 

960
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:49,400
there. 
So people know we're going 

961
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,920
there. 
We've got our business cards 

962
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:53,800
ready. 
We've got our rain of shades 

963
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,600
ready. 
We've got the rain of footballs 

964
00:53:56,240 --> 00:53:58,960
ready. 
We'll, you know, we, we, we, we,

965
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:03,080
we, we're going to, we're going 
to make sure that we maximize 

966
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,720
the value of of that event. 
The marketable moments, I was 

967
00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:09,480
having this exact conversation 
with an agent earlier, like when

968
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,720
you were doing maths exam, you'd
get extra marks for showing your

969
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:15,080
workings out. 
So it's like, don't just go to 

970
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,520
the event, make sure that 
everyone knows about it. 

971
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,880
So like the, the obviously the 
football, the World Cup chart, 

972
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,760
sunglasses, I think tissues at 
women's stages, the conference. 

973
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,280
I've got a T-shirt, same rain 
and personnel from when I play 

974
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,720
paddle. 
So no, I absolutely love it. 

975
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,800
Right before we come on to the 
final part of the the podcast, 

976
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:37,280
just going to the 2 Russell's, 
so second best podcast in the 

977
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,160
industry second. 
One was third best yesterday, so

978
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:45,200
we've moved forward. 
So for anyone listening, 

979
00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:47,760
obviously go check out two 
wrestlers podcast. 

980
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:52,000
I I love watching it. 
The sad person I am. 

981
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,440
I watch your your podcast, Matt 
Gibbs podcast. 

982
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,600
I'm gonna have my lunch and 
dinner some. 

983
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:58,960
I just love the love the state 
industry so much. 

984
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,440
But from all the episodes you've
recorded and all the people 

985
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,880
you've interviewed, obviously 
lots of high performance there. 

986
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,720
What's a common trait you keep 
seeing in people over and over 

987
00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:11,320
again? 
Pretty much every single one of 

988
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:16,080
those people has bounced back 
from some form of adversity. 

989
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:20,240
Almost. 
You'd almost encourage failure 

990
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,320
if I was going to give anybody 
some advice is go fail at 

991
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,120
something. 
Because based on 57 people that 

992
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,200
I've met, every single one of 
them who has now got a 

993
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,720
successful business you've 
mentioned, three or four of them

994
00:55:31,720 --> 00:55:36,080
today have had some kind of 
failure in or event in their 

995
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:40,320
life that that wasn't planned. 
And that almost gave them a 

996
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:44,560
resilient shield. 
To think nothing can get worse 

997
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:48,080
than this. 
So I hope that this doesn't 

998
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:51,960
offend anyone listening and I 
hope it comes out the right way.

999
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,080
And I can't remember where I 
would have first ever heard 

1000
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:59,320
this, but it's like, you've got 
twins and what, 1 is an 

1001
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,560
alcoholic and one is tea total. 
Why you an alcoholic? 

1002
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:04,840
My dad was an alcoholic. 
Why tea total? 

1003
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,920
My dad was an alcoholic. 
So it's like one of two ways I 

1004
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,040
can go. 
So I want to go down this path. 

1005
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:13,000
And yeah, I agree with you. 
I certainly learned from Tom 

1006
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,800
over the past couple of weeks. 
Those that have succeeded have 

1007
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:17,840
faced adversity. 
I. 

1008
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,920
Remember Tom telling Sophie 
still tells there, telling a 

1009
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:24,080
story about being in a gym in in
the hospital, the cancer unit 

1010
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:27,480
and the the someone say you 
can't be in here and he's saying

1011
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:31,200
something like of all the gyms 
in Sydney, do you think I'd 

1012
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:32,360
choose this one? 
Yeah, yeah. 

1013
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,960
Exactly. 
He said when he was in Ireland, 

1014
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,040
he said the person on the front 
desk at the hotel, they had a 

1015
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,560
problem for every solution 
rather than a solution for every

1016
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:42,440
problem. 
And it's like, look, your minds 

1017
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:44,680
here, right. 
OK, so before we get on to 

1018
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:46,760
closing tradition, I've got a 
new thing I'm doing on the 

1019
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:50,840
podcast now, which is the little
game of big choices, impossible 

1020
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:52,800
decisions. 
And it's quite branded brain and

1021
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:56,320
personnel actually. 
Yeah, don't show Josh that we'll

1022
00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:00,160
be getting your 500 orders. 
So some quick fire questions 

1023
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:03,040
here. 
So would you rather go on a 

1024
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:06,920
European backpacking holiday or 
a relaxing Caribbean holiday? 

1025
00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:13,920
Oh good question. 
I'm I'm going to go on a 

1026
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,480
European backpacking holiday. 
OK. 

1027
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:21,680
Would you rather be able to 
detect any lie you hear, or get 

1028
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:30,760
away with any lie you tell? 
I I think the sub 35 me would be

1029
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:33,880
get away with any lie I can tell
but I'd now like to detect. 

1030
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:40,520
OK, would you rather meet a 
space alien or someone from the 

1031
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,480
past? 
Someone from the past. 

1032
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:45,480
OK. 
And then final one before the 

1033
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,200
closing question. 
Would you rather you could only 

1034
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,280
speak in a whisper or only 
shout? 

1035
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:59,040
Well, a fantastic question. 
I don't think Make Monday's 

1036
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:00,680
Matter would come across well as
a whisper. 

1037
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:02,720
OK, cool. 
Right. 

1038
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,560
Final question. 
So closing tradition completely 

1039
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,560
ripped off from Stephen Butler, 
as you know, he gets a net. 

1040
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,360
Last guest asked the next guest 
a question not knowing who they 

1041
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:13,160
are. 
And this question was asked by 

1042
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:16,080
Daniel Priestley, which I'm 
going to want you to answer. 

1043
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:17,720
And I'm a huge fan of Daniel 
Priestley. 

1044
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:23,120
So the question, Russell, is 
what experience did you have at 

1045
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:28,800
around the age of 10 to 13 where
you discovered your own power to

1046
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:32,520
get things done without your 
parents being involved? 

1047
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:42,680
I around around that age we 
backed onto a school playing 

1048
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:47,280
field, playing from the Colster 
Grammar School. 

1049
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:49,080
So our house backed on to that 
grammar school. 

1050
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,880
There was a groundsman there, 
his name Peter, can't remember 

1051
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,600
his surname, Peter Bannister. 
So yeah, remember his surname. 

1052
00:58:56,040 --> 00:59:00,000
Me and my brother used to play 
cricket over over there against 

1053
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:04,640
the tree and he used to be going
around his business and I came 

1054
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:09,120
became very inquisitive around 
everything he was doing, which 

1055
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:13,000
resulted in me then becoming 
like almost a little assistant 

1056
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,000
at the weekends, cutting the 
pitches, cutting the outfields, 

1057
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:20,120
doing lots of jobs. 
So almost my first job that I 

1058
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:24,480
went and found myself and I just
found that I could talk to 

1059
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,280
people at at any level at that 
that point. 

1060
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:31,880
Nice, love that. 
I think my answer to that 

1061
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:33,560
question probably would have 
been paper round. 

1062
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:35,880
I remember buzzing when I got my
first paper round. 

1063
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:37,160
I was rubbish of the paper 
round. 

1064
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:39,920
I failed miserably. 
Yeah, I think my my other one, 

1065
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:41,960
maybe I could do the Rubik's 
Cube very, very quickly. 

1066
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,920
And I remember being on holiday 
in Switzerland, but my mum and 

1067
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,000
dad would have taken me there. 
So, but I was used to just sit 

1068
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:49,720
in the bar doing the Rubik's 
Cube and people were mesmerised 

1069
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:51,720
by that. 
I got I got free drinks free 

1070
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:53,840
free free diet Cokes for doing 
the Rubik's Cube. 

1071
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:55,760
So the next time I see if I turn
out with a. 

1072
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,000
Rubik do it. 
No I no I I I I I I I. 

1073
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:01,440
Two years ago, I got go back to 
and COVID I, I got myself back 

1074
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:02,800
to be able to do it, but I've 
lost the knack. 

1075
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,400
I tried the other day and get 
3/4 of the way there. 

1076
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:07,960
But I will take that away from 
here, Simon, today to make sure 

1077
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:11,320
that by the time I next see you 
at the Kerfuffle conference, I 

1078
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:14,680
can do the Rubik's Cube. 
Very, very good, right? 

1079
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:19,040
For everyone listening at home, 
please do remember to like 

1080
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,760
review, subscribe, follow share.
If you're obviously in the 

1081
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:25,000
market for a a new job and you 
want to reach out to Russell and

1082
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:26,360
have a chat with him, of course 
do. 

1083
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:27,640
That, or you've got a job to 
fill. 

1084
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,440
Or if you've got a job to fill, 
reach out to Russell. 

1085
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,000
And that just leaves me say, Mr.
Russell Jervis, thank you very 

1086
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,280
much for being an amazing guest.
I very much appreciate it. 

1087
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:36,880
Thank you, Simon. 
Thanks for having me.