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Hello and welcome to Opening 
Gates to more listings for 

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estate agents with me, Simon 
Gates. 

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I'm delighted to join say by Mr.
Tom Panos. 

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Tom, thank you very much for 
joining me. 

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Thank you for having me Simon, 
and in person means a lot. 

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Do you know, when I started on 
this journey of transitioning 

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from estate agency into like the
training space half dozen years 

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ago, I'd written down things I 
wanted to achieve. 

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And one of the things was to get
you on the podcast, which we did

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last last year. 
You're at top of the list mate 

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And to now be sat here in person
doing it is unbelievable. 

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You've been my university on 
wheels for a dozen years. 

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Listen to $1,000,000 agents. 
So to do it in person and to 

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spent last couple of weeks of 
you across Ireland, Birmingham, 

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now London. 
It's been an an absolute 

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pleasure to know. 
Thank you. 

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For listen, it's a it's a 
pleasure working with you and 

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you gave me a very important 
gift. 

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It was not an expensive gift in 
terms of price. 

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It was a beautiful book, the 
five wealth areas by I think of 

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the authors called Sahail and I 
get books all the time and I get

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listen to audio books, but that 
one was a special book. 

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But yeah, it's a pleasure 
working with you. 

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You're easy to work with. 
You've got great content and 

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you've got an influence and an 
audience that love to hear the 

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stuff that you've got and 
hopefully we've got some good 

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information today. 
We'll, we'll do our best. 

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Hopefully we've not run out of 
it over the past couple of 

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weeks. 
So like I said, you've been 

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across Ireland, you've been 
Birmingham, London, the UK, 

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you've bought a bit of good 
weather over from Australia as 

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well. 
So thank you for that. 

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Today's a cracker of a day. 
It is and we're stuck inside 

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here recording, correct? 
Maybe we'll have a drink later. 

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So what what kind of have you 
observed of the of real estate 

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agents across the UK and Ireland
and and the market at the moment

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from from the last couple of 
weeks and all these different 

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agents you've met? 
Look, real estate agents all 

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over the world have got a lot of
common ingredients that you see.

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They're normally people that 
have got decent people skills, 

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they're normally hungry, they 
get driven to work that is 

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Commission based. 
So they're the kind that I've 

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got a bit of entrepreneurship. 
The one thing that I have 

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noticed, probably both in 
Ireland and in the UK, is that 

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the mindset Simon is, is more 
that of an employee than an 

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employer. 
And that can be really confusing

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because it's very easy for an 
estate agent to actually think, 

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Oh no, I actually work for that 
firm. 

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I think it's important that you 
understand that if you're in the

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Commission based business, if 
you make a living that is highly

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dependent on how much property 
you sell and how much 

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commissions you get, you are in 
fact working for yourself. 

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And I sometimes think that some 
of the mindset I see with people

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is they think, Oh no, I'm 
actually an estate agent working

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for a company now. 
It's important that you know 

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that if you're in real estate, 
you're working for yourself, you

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have income that's coming in, 
you have expenses, and that 

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those expenses should either be 
looking at helping you make 

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money, build your personal 
brand. 

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That would probably be the 
biggest observation. 

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The second observation is the 
list to sell ratio is different,

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right? 
The amount of property that gets

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listed versus sold is a lot 
lower than some of the other 

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countries I do work with, 
specifically in Australia where 

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the list to sell ratio is more 
like 80 to 90%. 

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So on that second point, when I 
hear you, John and Troy, when 

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you're doing the podcast and you
talk about what is it you call 

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it? 
Is it would you say sell rate 

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from options at the weekend? 
The clearance rate. 

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Clearance rate. 
That's it. 

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Thank you. 
Clearance rate. 

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And yeah, here in the numbers 
you say, Oh yeah, you know, 

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it's, it was a good one, you 
know, 80% clearance that weekend

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or something like in the UK, you
know. 

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Yeah, 5055. 
Percent. 

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So we, we, we, we believe a 
clearance rate in Australia of 

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under 60% is a really bad 
result. 

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We actually think that under 60%
you're moving into a buyers mark

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territory, right? 
Yeah, we much prefer to be 

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sitting somewhere between 70 and
90% and and unfortunately in the

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UK and in Ireland it appears 
that that number is lower. 

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But of course we must. 
So I mean, you know that for all

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your listeners, we do have micro
markets. 

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You can't turn around and say, 
you know, the market in Mayfair 

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is the same market as it is in 
Doncaster. 

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They all have their own unique 
issues. 

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So at this present moment in 
time, my observation is that 

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we're in a higher interest rate 
environment compared to the 

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COVID market. 
I think you said on the stage 

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maybe yesterday, in the early 
90s in a really tough market 

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when you set up your business 
and there were 18% interest 

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rate. 
So whatever it was in the 

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slightly higher interest rate 
environments, the South of the 

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country in London perform a lot 
worse. 

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In very low interest rate 
environments, they perform 

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really, really well. 
But it's right now, like I said 

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to you when we're walking over 
here, Wales, Scotland, Northern 

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Ireland, Norfolk country, the 
house price earning ratios are a

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lot closer together. 
So they're actually 

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outperforming your London's at 
the moment. 

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Yeah. 
So that's the great thing about 

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real estate markets. 
They never stay the same. 

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You know, like you know, you at 
any one time, Simon, doesn't 

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matter whether you're in Wales, 
Scotland, London and in addition

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that if you are in London, 
you've got these micro markets. 

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Markets fall into one of three 
buyers market, sellers market or

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a balanced market, right. 
Buyers market is when there's a 

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lot of stock on the market, 
which there is at the moment in 

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lots of parts of the United 
Kingdom. 

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A seller's market is what you 
had during COVID. 

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They were getting incredible 
prices. 

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But there's one market that real
estate agents don't like and 

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that's a transition market. 
That's a market that's moving, 

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but there's not enough evidence 
there that you can demonstrate 

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to your seller, hey, listen, 
you're not going to get this 

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price because they keep saying, 
but that has sell for that. 

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And what they're looking at is 
before it transitioned and 

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transition markets create a lot 
of hesitancy because people are 

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unsure, you know? 
Yeah. 

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But the good news is, Simon, 
transition markets now don't 

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last for long between because 
the mobile phone and digital 

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news comes flying at your phone.
Consumers are very educated. 

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The media does an amazing job to
educate consumers. 

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Yeah, very interesting. 
I just want to go back to the 

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first point in terms of employee
versus employer to find out 

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really interesting what what 
you'd said, because I've only 

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ever had in my adult life, 
technically speaking, to 

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employee jobs. 
And I treated my job as if it 

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was a business within a business
like my own franchise. 

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And I think that's what made me 
successful in those jobs. 

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And I can't remember the exact 
study or or science behind it, 

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but we've got a podcast in the 
UKA huge podcast called high 

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Performance podcast and done by 
Jake Humphrey and professor, 

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professor Damian Hughes, who 
I've had on my podcast, 

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actually, which which was 
unbelievable. 

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And in one of their latest 
books, they talked about how 

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people, adult people have a job,
a career or a calling. 

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And for me, when a state agency,
it's, it's a calling. 

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So if you're, if it's a job 
where it's 9:00 to 5:00, you 

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take an hour's lunch, you take 
all your holiday sick pay, 

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whatever, it's just a job. 
There's some who you know, it's 

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a career. 
They want to go up the ladder. 

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But then for me, it's always 
been a calling. 

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I'm this really weird person. 
If I said to you before I grew 

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up wanting to be an estate 
agent, no one in the UK wants to

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do that. 
My parents really tried to not 

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get me to do I. 
Want you to be a doctor? 

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Or what's even funnier, right, I
said to you when walking over 

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here, estate agents don't have a
best reputation in this country.

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They got me to do work 
experience at the Royal Families

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Law firm and the Houses of 
Parliament. 

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Now I don't know how much you 
see about the Royal family over 

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in Australia in terms of what 
goes on there, but their law 

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firms probably going to be quite
busy at most times. 

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And Houses of Parliament, again,
we've had some quite shocking 

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things that happened in recent 
years with. 

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So maybe they're maybe at the 
end of the day, they're happy 

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that you became a real estate. 
Agent, I think they're proud of 

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me. 
Now I'm interviewing you, so 

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yeah, there you. 
Go Yeah, Nah. 

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Listen, by the way, that is 
right around the world. 

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It's not just the UK thing. 
Real estate agents reputation is

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towards the bottom. 
We know that part of it is out 

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of our control, but part of it 
is within our control too. 

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So just a touch and a point 
next. 

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I do think, and I've been guilty
of this over the years, and I 

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guess we're in this, we're in 
the UK, America, Australia. 

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We're in this kind of, let's 
say, echo chamber where if I'm 

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listening to the likes of you 
watching Matt Salvin, to Matt 

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Steinwade, Lisa Novak, people 
like Gavin, who you obviously. 

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Coach, actually all three are 
being clients of mine long term.

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And and we look and go, Oh my 
God, Australia's amazing. 

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But then, like in any country, 
it's going to be great agents. 

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It's going to be bad agents. 
I think in, in the UK we can be 

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guilty of being like, oh, it's 
all well and good for them 

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saying that in Australia, 
because they're all amazing out 

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there. 
Like they haven't got cheap fees

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or shit agents or overvaluing. 
But like you say, it's the same 

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all over the world, doesn't 
matter what country, and you're 

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going to get the bad and the 
good. 

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I've got to say, Simon, the UK 
market and the Australian market

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are the closest aligned markets,
not in terms of economies, but 

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in terms of the methods that 
agents use. 

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We have the same issue like fees
going under 1% is a big issue in

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Australia. 
Vendors that wanting more for 

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their homes than what they're 
worth. 

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I mean, to give you an idea 
right at the moment, you know, 

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in various parts of Sydney, the 
eastern suburbs of Sydney, Alex 

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Phillips is a very good estate 
agent, said to me. 

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I interviewed him at Eric two 
weeks ago and he said to me that

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70% of these transactions since 
2020 are being sold for lower 

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than what they paid for. 
I mean, we have the same issues,

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right? 
The same issues. 

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Real estate agents have to wake 
up every morning with a gun 

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pointing at their head saying 
list or you won't eat, right? 

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We have the same issues. 
We have vendors that think their

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home is worth 100,000 more than 
what it is. 

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So they're very aligned 
marketplaces. 

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So if you're a person in the UK 
thinking to yourself, hey, if I 

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was in Australia, it would be 
different. 

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The only thing that would be 
different is that you'd have 300

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days of sunshine, right? 
Everything else is the same, 

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right? 
I don't know if I said to you 

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before, my grandmother is 
Australian. 

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She's been, she's been an opera 
singer out there, well travelled

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to Europe singing, met my 
grandfather who was in the Navy 

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and they fell madly in love and 
moved to the UK. 

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So I need to somehow tap her up 
to get myself. 

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Over to Australia, you need to 
get an Aussie passport. 

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I do, don't I? 
Yeah. 

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So I just want to run through 
some of the questions I've been 

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asked. 
When I put out a post on social 

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media yesterday saying very 
fortunate to be interviewing 

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you, I was inundated. 
So I've tried to choose some of 

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the best ones which. 
We yes, I'd love to. 

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Run through. 
So let's have a have a look at 

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these. 
So let's start with this one 

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with AI because AI is again, I 
don't know what it's like in Oz,

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but in UK every conference at 
the moment is AIAIAII thinking 

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like it's going to change their 
life without doing any work. 

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So the question for you first 
one is, what's the biggest 

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mistake you're seeing estate 
agents make at the moment with 

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AI? 
Stopping talking to people and 

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spending all their time on 
bleeding edge technology instead

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00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,960
of cutting edge technology. 
I've seen this story happen 

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many, many times. 
Something new happens in real 

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estate. 
People think this new shiny 

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00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:25,920
object is going to change 
everything. 

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And what happens is they drop 
what they're doing and focus on 

230
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the shiny object. 
Now let's be clear, this is a 

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00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,320
really shiny object, right? 
So I can't turn around and 

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compare it to some of the other 
technologies that even came 

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00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,520
through during COVID like 
virtual online auctions, right? 

234
00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,920
This is, this is a thing that 
can actually help an estate 

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00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,240
agent list and sell more real 
estate, gain more time. 

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00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,000
But you got to be very careful 
that you don't become high tech,

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00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,400
low touch. 
What you want to do is to be the

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00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,760
estate agent that uses 
technology, in particular AI to 

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complement them, not to 
substitute them. 

240
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,040
And for me, that basically means
is that you will still be making

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00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:14,560
phone calls, you'll still be 
creating influence because AI 

242
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:19,600
cannot actually say to the 
seller, please realign your 

243
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:23,640
price by 5%. 
AI can say, here is some 

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00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,080
information that we should be 
focused on. 

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00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,800
AI does the heading list lifting
to source information. 

246
00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,000
But you still need to have the 
conversation and say, Mr. and 

247
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,920
Mr. Seller, as you can see, this
is what my buyers are reading at

248
00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,000
the moment. 
How open minded would you be 

249
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,120
that we realign your price by 
10%? 

250
00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:50,720
AI doesn't do that, you do that.
So I think it's estate agents 

251
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:55,960
grappling with what do I stop 
doing and start doing with AI 

252
00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:01,160
and what do I actually keep on 
doing and don't get sidetracked 

253
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:06,240
and deceived by AI. 
And for me, there's only three 

254
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:10,040
or four things, Simon, that I 
have seen AI at the moment that 

255
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,200
I can really say it's going to 
help you make more money in a 

256
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,000
state agency. 
There's only three or four 

257
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,640
things, and I can touch on those
if you want. 

258
00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:17,360
Please do. 
Right? 

259
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,880
Yeah. 
One of those is before an estate

260
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,360
agent goes and does a listing 
presentation or a market 

261
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,920
appraisal, whatever term you 
give it, that you get some 

262
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,160
psychometric testing done 
through various Aon platforms 

263
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,280
like Humanic, Crystal or Claude.
That allows you to analyze the 

264
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,800
personality of someone. 
So when you get to the 

265
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,880
presentation, you know their 
values, what to say, what not to

266
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:41,160
say. 
That's powerful. 

267
00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,560
There are applications like 
NextGen that if you work in a 

268
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:49,120
cross culture market where you 
half your audience is speaking 

269
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,760
Mandarin, you can have your 
content within seconds 

270
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:59,480
transcribed and also a sounding 
like you are actually very 

271
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,200
efficient at speaking that 
language. 

272
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,840
And I would probably say that 
the vendor reporting which is 

273
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,000
needed because most owners need 
to actually start getting 

274
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,480
realistic about their price 
expectations. 

275
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,400
I think vendor reports, which 
are very used in Australia, 

276
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,680
which is a weekly written report
that analyzes the data from the 

277
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:24,280
portals and then actually finds 
articles that says here are the 

278
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,880
reasons why your property might 
actually have to be realigned 

279
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:34,160
and putting the vendor reports 
through AI, they're very useful.

280
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,280
They're to me, the main things. 
Obviously creating your 

281
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,880
advertisements. 
AI can do advertisements really 

282
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:41,040
good. 
Obviously, if you're stuck 

283
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,320
sometimes legally or what does 
this mean? 

284
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,640
There's great AI and platforms 
that act like a solicitor. 

285
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:52,320
But for me the biggest mistake 
Simon is real estate agents stop

286
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,760
using this talking to people 
because they think that AI is 

287
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:58,880
going to make him the top agent 
in the UK. 

288
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:05,200
Yeah, on on the phone side of 
things, Well, two, well, 2, two 

289
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,400
and one here. 
So I think there's a plenty on 

290
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,800
social media now where it's 
seeing AI content and is like 

291
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,000
blocking it from actually 
getting further. 

292
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,720
Hence why when you're talking 
over the past couple of weeks 

293
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,200
around the, OR organic authentic
content you're recording that 

294
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,680
does so well because it stands 
out so much because everything 

295
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,240
else people like, well that's 
AI, that's AI, that's AI. 

296
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,000
And one of the things I said on 
stage yesterday, if I was to 

297
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,600
start in the stage tomorrow, you
know, I've got people in this 

298
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,200
phone who already know, like and
trust me. 

299
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,960
Why would be going around trying
to do business with people I 

300
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,120
don't know when I can send a 
WhatsApp broadcast list of 256 

301
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,400
people and get business from 
that and have agents all over 

302
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,960
the UK implement that strategy 
and win business off it? 

303
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,600
So Simon, it's a wonderful 
recommendation by the way, and I

304
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,080
heard you talk about that in 
your great presentation 

305
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:56,560
yesterday in Birmingham. 
And, and I will say this, people

306
00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:01,760
underestimate the mobile phone 
as a trusted database. 

307
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,120
Most people have got hundreds, 
some people have got thousands 

308
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,880
of names. 
These people have received texts

309
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:10,360
from you. 
These people are people that 

310
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,200
you've had belly to belly, voice
to voice conversations with. 

311
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,840
These are people that you played
football with. 

312
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,040
These are people that you went 
to school with. 

313
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,720
They already like and trust you.
Often just opening up your phone

314
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,600
and ringing up people and 
saying, hey, it's Tom Panosi 

315
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,480
from the real estate. 
Firstly, I want to apologize. 

316
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:30,800
I should have been in touch 
earlier. 

317
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,480
Secondly, how's this changing 
market impacted your plans? 

318
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,960
That could be a simple step 
people could do today to 

319
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:39,960
reconnect with their client 
base. 

320
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,720
Yeah, such powerful words. 
You, you use that. 

321
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:48,240
Nothing you made me think for 
saying, you know, relationships 

322
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,480
will transcend all market 
conditions. 

323
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,840
But you've seen instant, you've 
seen the rise of the Internet. 

324
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,560
You've then seen AI, you've seen
so many different markets. 

325
00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,840
But which agents have performed 
the best over your decades in 

326
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:01,560
the market? 
They want to continuously 

327
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,119
maintain those relationships. 
I think there's a saying, I 

328
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:04,960
don't know who came up with 
this. 

329
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,560
Transactions don't compound, 
relationships do. 

330
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:09,920
That's another beautiful 
sentence. 

331
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,680
That's one I'm going to 
plagiarize as well because you 

332
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,800
know, Simon, we've got to accept
that. 

333
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,040
Look, it doesn't matter what's 
going on in the world and it 

334
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,280
doesn't matter where it's a 
buyers market, a sellers market,

335
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,359
whether this new shiny object is
got everyone's attention. 

336
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,400
At the end of the day, we've got
people that are getting 

337
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,600
divorced. 
We've got people that want a 

338
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,960
bigger house. 
We've got people that want a 

339
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,440
smaller house. 
We've got people that want to 

340
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,560
actually leave 1 suburb and go 
live in the countryside. 

341
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,200
And then we've got people that 
have gone to the countryside, 

342
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,400
Zoom life's not working for them
and they want to come back into 

343
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,880
the city. 
We've got people that want to go

344
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,440
live in another country. 
At the end of the day, I've got 

345
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,720
good news for everyone. 
It doesn't matter what the 

346
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,480
markets doing, what's going out 
in the world. 

347
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,440
I'm letting you know that the 
majority of the people that 

348
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,800
transact in real estate are 
transacting because of a 

349
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:02,880
lifestyle purpose. 
So if you're a good estate 

350
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,120
agent, it doesn't matter what's 
going on, good, bad market. 

351
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,080
If you're a deal maker and 
you're a good estate agent, 

352
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:14,760
you're always making money. 100%
so over the last 50 years in the

353
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,880
UK we've averaged about 1.2 
million transactions. 

354
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,840
So give or take, it's about 5% 
of your marketplace moves every 

355
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:21,640
year. 
I don't know how that would 

356
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,600
compared to Australia. 
Yeah, so it's like, okay, so if 

357
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,160
it's 100 houses on this estate, 
I know 5 and these 100 are going

358
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,240
to move in the next 12 months. 
Law of averages. 

359
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,880
So I said to a lot of the 
agents, OK, so we know how many 

360
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,720
properties sell in your 
marketplace each year. 

361
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,840
So we just reverse engineer it, 
right? 

362
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:38,880
Well, we know it's going to be 
100 transactions. 

363
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,840
What's your average fee? 
OK, how many doors we need to 

364
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,760
not letters, we need to send 
videos, produced social media 

365
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,560
posts, etcetera. 
Like 50 years of data has told 

366
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,120
you, we know there's going to be
5% of people transact. 

367
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,880
When it was a recession, I think
it went down to like 700,000. 

368
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:57,000
So we know when the the market 
is absolutely screwed, still 

369
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,080
going to get 3/4 of a million 
people in this country. 

370
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,080
When the world was ending, 
people still moved. 

371
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,320
And then when we had the boom 
market with COVID, when money 

372
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,800
was just being chucked at people
and people went, oh, I don't 

373
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,520
want to be in London anymore. 
Guts the countryside. 

374
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:12,840
Like you said, I think we went 
up to maybe a 1.4 million mark. 

375
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,320
So you know that when times are 
really, really good, you're 

376
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,080
maybe going to get a few 100,000
more transaction. 

377
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,200
And when times are not great, it
goes down by a few 100,000, but 

378
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:26,240
over a 50 year average, OK. 
So you've just nailed something 

379
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,520
that everyone that's watching 
this should become totally 

380
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:36,400
focused on. 
If 5% of people are selling, get

381
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,320
yourself a database of 1000 
people. 

382
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:44,280
Mathematics doesn't lie. 5% of 
1000 is. 

383
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,640
Those fifty are transacting on 
the law of averages. 

384
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,000
So what you're doing, and you 
spoke about it in your 

385
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,160
presentation yesterday, you're 
just not focusing on the 5% 

386
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,680
because if you focus on the 5%, 
you've got a strategy, which is 

387
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,360
the catch and kill strategy. 
You're trying to get what 

388
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:03,840
everyone else is getting. 
Now, because everyone is 

389
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,720
fighting over the same stuff. 
What actually happens is your 

390
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,360
fee comes down. 
What smart people do is they 

391
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:12,040
play the long game. 
They get a tribe that's got 

392
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,520
their vibe. 
Let's call it 1000, people. 

393
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,800
You might turn around and say to
yourself, no man, I'm hungrier 

394
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,520
than that. 
I want 2000 people, right? 

395
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,320
Or you might turn around and 
say, I want 5000 people, but 

396
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,200
let's just use 1000 because 
mathematics will be easier. 5% 

397
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:33,240
of 1000 is 50 transactions. 
You know, every year that 50% of

398
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,400
50 of those people are 
transacting. 

399
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,800
That doesn't include the uncle, 
the neighbor, the stuff that 

400
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,480
just listed. 
This is repeatable, predictable 

401
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,000
business, like a subscription 
based business. 

402
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,120
It's money that's coming in, 
right? 

403
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:52,320
And all you've got to do is 
begin to realize my job is to 

404
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:57,120
get a tribe that's got my vibe 
and to become their agent before

405
00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:59,520
they need an agent. 
So when they need an agent, 

406
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,680
they've got an agent. 
That's your formula for success.

407
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:05,400
I love that. 
I've never, I've never thought 

408
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,880
of it in a way you said it's 
like a a delayed subscription 

409
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,080
service where the aunt, the 
uncle, the cousin, the brother, 

410
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,480
the sister, you're going to get 
business from them, but it might

411
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,320
be in 5-10 years. 
So rather than it being £30 a 

412
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,680
month, you're getting that £5000
a month in in. 

413
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,360
So, so I want you to know, I 
look at my whole life as a 

414
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:28,160
subscription business, right? 
I look at my life and I'll sit 

415
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:34,240
there with the client and I'll 
say to them, listen, probably I 

416
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:35,880
wouldn't make that decision 
right now. 

417
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,040
And I'll say, but Tom, I'm 
surprised you'll, you'll benefit

418
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,600
of me making that decision. 
I'll say I'm still benefiting, 

419
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,800
but I'll benefit at a later time
because the right time for you 

420
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,680
is not now. 
And let me tell you, clients 

421
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,040
love that. 
They hate Commission breath. 

422
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,360
They hate being bullied and 
ambushed and all that. 

423
00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:59,080
Oh no, do it now. 
You'll regret it if you don't. 

424
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,880
No man, don't get me wrong. 
If I believe that I will say 

425
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:08,240
that, I'll say to them, hey, 
listen, it's your money and I'm 

426
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,320
only recommending to you what I 
do myself. 

427
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:17,200
How would you feel in two months
time if you're getting 10% less,

428
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,640
how would that make you feel? 
If I think it's right for them, 

429
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,720
I'll use influence. 
And I think influence is really 

430
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:28,360
important because a con man and 
a good person, the only 

431
00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:31,520
difference is their intent. 
They both use influence. 

432
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:38,640
Yeah, very interesting You've in
terms of the relationships and 

433
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:43,880
subscription, Something I say to
a lot of agents is for if 

434
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,280
they're in that, what am I going
to try and say here? 

435
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,600
Transactional mindset. 
Let's say I come to see you and 

436
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,000
30 minutes go by and you go. 
Simon, thank you so much for 

437
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,240
being really helpful. 
We're not moving, you know, most

438
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:55,880
agents. 
OK, wasted time, see you later. 

439
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,000
I'm out the door. 
Or as I'm saying, well if you 

440
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,720
just said to me, thank you Tom, 
could you do me a small favour? 

441
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,200
And there's 2 answers to that. 
Yes, it depends what it is. 

442
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,280
Would you be kind enough to scan
this QR code and leave me review

443
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,160
on Google? 
And because you've said yes, 

444
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,240
sorry, you've said that I've 
been helpful, you're going to do

445
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,440
that. 
Secondly, Tom, who's one of a 

446
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,640
person you know right now that 
needs help moving home in 2026, 

447
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:19,440
can you introduce me? 
Absolutely beautiful. 

448
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,800
And then the last one you're 
going to love, right, is Tom. 

449
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,080
I'm curious, who do you think 
will be the next person on your 

450
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,320
street to move home? 
And what's powerful about that 

451
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:35,320
is the way you phrased the 
question, not do you know anyone

452
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,240
who. 
Yeah, essentially you're forcing

453
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:43,560
them to from a cognitive level 
to actually think, not to 

454
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,680
automatically just say, Oh no, I
don't know, no one. 

455
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:52,800
So and 100%, I mean, I like that
concept. 

456
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,800
And I also, I've got to tell 
you, if you're not dealing with 

457
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,680
someone and doing business with 
them, then but you're playing 

458
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,080
the long game along the lines of
this subscription metaphor that 

459
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,320
we're talking about, you should 
also make it your business 

460
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,000
because in real estate we've got
this obsession. 

461
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,960
Put them in the database, the 
CRM system. 

462
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,680
I get that and it's important, 
but social media is a CRM 

463
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,360
system, right? 
So one thing you got to do is 

464
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:22,560
when you leave that house, say 
listen, let's connect on social 

465
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:28,840
because that jab, every time you
post that they see that story. 

466
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:33,120
That post is another touch point
and frequency is building trust.

467
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,560
You want to enable all trust 
things as much as you can. 

468
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,840
On that social media side of 
things and kind of got like I 

469
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,640
said two way CRM there you know 
one of the first things I'm 

470
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,760
taught when I'm an estate agent 
wet behind the ears, young, 

471
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,400
naive, 16 years old, couldn't 
grow a beard. 

472
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,200
My suit was too big. 
I looked like I should still be 

473
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,000
in school but I was taught when 
someone walks through the door 

474
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,480
of your High Street office, 
which wouldn't happen as much 

475
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,280
these days, you stand up you 
walk in front of the desk. 

476
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,160
Hello I'm Simon. 
How can I help you stay 

477
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,760
something along those lines? 
Yet today in the world we live 

478
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,000
in, your digital version of that
High Street shop is social 

479
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,440
media. 
So, so if an estate agent 

480
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,320
follows me on social media right
now, I should be messaging and 

481
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,240
saying, hey, Tom, thank you so 
much for following me. 

482
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:19,880
Can I ask what's brought you to 
my page? 

483
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,080
Are you looking for, you know, 
help growing your estate 

484
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,160
industry business or are you 
just out here curious to see 

485
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,640
what's going on? 
Like it's a digital version of 

486
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,120
that of of that High Street, 
right? 

487
00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:33,000
Absolutely. 
It is the equivalent of like 

488
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:38,200
we've got to accept it in the 
old days and I don't know what 

489
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,440
the culture is like in the UK, 
but in the summer months in 

490
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,360
Australia we have a lot of 
barbecues. 

491
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,280
We have terrible barbecues for a
lot of rain. 

492
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,080
We have terrible barbecues or 
let's call it a dinner party or 

493
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,960
let's call it a drinks at the 
pub because you do plenty of 

494
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,360
that here. 
But during those conversations, 

495
00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:01,280
often people would say, how'd 
the sale of your place go? 

496
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,080
And they turn to us. 
Oh, mate, it was really good. 

497
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,120
You know, we gave it to Simon. 
It was all right. 

498
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:11,400
He was a decent fella in 2026. 
That conversation is not done at

499
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,120
a dinner table. 
That conversation is done on 

500
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:17,640
social media and it's 
recommendation on steroids. 

501
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,200
And it's not one person at the 
dinner table. 

502
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:26,360
It's maybe 1383 friends that 
hear of it. 

503
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,440
Which is another reason why I 
totally encourage estate agents 

504
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:35,200
to do a insta live with a vendor
once they've sold. 

505
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,080
Even if it's a 2-3 minute 
conversation where I interview 

506
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,240
you as a vendor and I say, what 
was the experience like dealing 

507
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,680
with us and what was the most 
stressful thing and were you 

508
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,920
happy with the result? 
And you make sure that it's a 

509
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,480
positive conversation and they 
wouldn't be on there if it 

510
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,640
wasn't positive. 
But the value is, Simon, when 

511
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,200
your vendor jumps on live, all 
their friends and family are 

512
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,240
notified that you're on live and
all all of a sudden you're in 

513
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,440
the frame, the estate agent 
meeting their friends and 

514
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,920
family. 
It's all about breaking into new

515
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:08,680
communities. 
So. 

516
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,800
I'm going to play devil's 
advocate here on what you said 

517
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,560
there. 
And we talked about the 

518
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,960
difference between fixed mindset
and growth mindset when we're on

519
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,280
the train over here. 
But Tom, like my clients don't 

520
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,640
want to be on camera. 
I'm never going to get them to 

521
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,360
go on a live and say what an 
amazing job I did. 

522
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,720
What would you say to an estate 
agent saying that? 

523
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,160
Some people that would be the 
case. 

524
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:38,560
Most people, if they're happy. 
And most importantly, the timing

525
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:45,560
of the request. 
If you actually ask it, two 

526
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,920
months after there's been an 
offer and acceptance, emotions 

527
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,000
have gone down. 
They're looking at the new home,

528
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,160
they're buying, they're getting 
ready to pack or whatever. 

529
00:27:56,360 --> 00:28:01,480
Life is different, but if I had 
just had an offer, an acceptance

530
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:08,600
sold by goes up and you're 
happy, the timing is critical, 

531
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,040
right? 
So I can tell you that often I 

532
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,960
have estate agents that say, 
Tom, my vendors wouldn't do it. 

533
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,760
I say you're probably right if 
they're not happy with the 

534
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,360
service that you did and that 
you're asking them why after 

535
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,640
their emotional levels were at 
their highest. 

536
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,120
But if your client is happy and 
the timing of the request is 

537
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:34,160
there, you've got a more than a 
50% chance of getting him to 

538
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,480
come on, Especially if you just 
say, I'm just going to ask you 

539
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,760
one question because I have a 
lot of prospective clients who 

540
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,720
often get confused that it's 
gonna be a very stressful 

541
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,800
experience. 
Just your version of how it 

542
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,440
went, you know. 
Yeah, love that. 

543
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,200
And you take me back to 
something you said earlier at 

544
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,000
the presentation. 
You're doing what gets scheduled

545
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,360
gets done because how many 
agents wouldn't write that down?

546
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,560
So I'm just thinking of like a 
playbook or a manual and going, 

547
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,200
OK, so when we know that we've 
handed the keys over and they're

548
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:07,680
really happy and they're 
buzzing, right? 

549
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,120
Is it in the manual that when 
you've handed the keys, you're 

550
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:11,960
then going to make that request 
because you haven't written it 

551
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,080
down. 
Then in two months you go, never

552
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:15,680
forgot to ask them that and then
you ring them. 

553
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,000
It's like I've kind of moved on 
with my life now, like you said.

554
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,560
Yeah. 
So what gets schedule gets done 

555
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:29,080
is probably the single one liner
that no matter I'm talking to a 

556
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,560
big group of agents or a small 
workshop like this morning with 

557
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:37,320
Keller Williams or even when I'm
speaking at Eric to thousands, 

558
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,200
what gets scheduled gets done 
always comes up. 

559
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,560
And the reason why is if you 
schedule your prospecting, it 

560
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,280
gets done. 
If you schedule your vendor 

561
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,120
meeting, it gets done. 
If you schedule your sales 

562
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,200
meeting, it gets done. 
If you schedule a viewing, it 

563
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,000
gets done. 
The number one hair salon in the

564
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,960
world said that there's simple 
strategy that helped them become

565
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:06,400
the highest income producing 
salon is that no customer leaves

566
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,960
the salon without the next 
appointment being scheduled. 

567
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,440
It's again subscription based 
business. 

568
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,040
So again, someone comes in and 
what what we'd say with the 19th

569
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,040
of June comes in and collects 
the keys. 

570
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,560
Mr. Panos, I've got it in the 
diary for 19th of June 2027, but

571
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,160
we're going to be coming out to 
see you, to see how everything's

572
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:26,960
going. 
Correct. 

573
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,480
And everyone should incorporate 
that strategy that you just 

574
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,600
mentioned, which is when you 
sell a property at settlement, 

575
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,800
you show up and you let that 
client know. 

576
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,680
I'm letting you know you've been
a buyer while I've been working 

577
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,520
with you. 
Congratulations, you have now 

578
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,360
entered my VIP club. 
You are a very important person 

579
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,560
and as a very important person, 
you're getting a one year health

580
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,760
update on your asset. 
What gets scheduled gets done. 

581
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,520
Let's put it in the system. 
Think about that as a strategy. 

582
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:02,600
50 sales a year, year one, 50 
appraisals the next year, year 

583
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,760
to another 50 that layers on the
other 50. 

584
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:13,000
You've got 100 by Year 5, we're 
talking 50A1015020250. 

585
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,760
You wake up on January the 1st 
and you know you've got 250 

586
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,480
appraisals. 
I know they're not selling right

587
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,080
there and then, they're probably
price updates, but their 

588
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,360
relationship appointments And 
during these meetings, they say 

589
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,480
to you, Simon, do you handle 
Surrey? 

590
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,600
My sister's getting divorced. 
Yeah, right. 

591
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,800
That's what happens when you're 
eyeball to eyeball with your 

592
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,400
past clients. 
The secret, my friends, is to 

593
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,040
create raving fans and not have 
to wake up on January 1 every 

594
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,800
year looking for another 
thousand clients. 

595
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,160
Get a client and make him a 
client for life. 

596
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,240
Love that you, you've reminded 
me. 

597
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,200
I'm sure I've heard it numerous 
times over the years. 

598
00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:00,960
On $1,000,000 Agent where you'd 
say something along the lines of

599
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,680
Christmas dinner will taste a 
lot better when you know you've 

600
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,480
got those appointments in the 
diary for next year. 

601
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,400
We have a saying at Christmas, 
when you leave on the 23rd of 

602
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,880
December, you park your car on 
the top of the hill. 

603
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,400
Yeah. 
So when you come back middle of 

604
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,080
January, you let go of the 
handbrake and you're flying with

605
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,280
momentum and that's how you 
build an effortless, lucrative 

606
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,760
fun life. 
You're always thinking ahead. 

607
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,360
You're always thinking about 
that 30 day rule. 

608
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,760
What I do in this 30 days 
affects the next 90 days. 

609
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,400
You're planning ahead? 
Love that right. 

610
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,680
I should better better get back 
to my questions I'm supposed to 

611
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,920
be asked. 
We've only done one, but we're 

612
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,600
the conversation is flowing. 
So right. 

613
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,840
Second question, what's 1 
practical thing UK agents can 

614
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,560
learn from Australian agents 
that would help move their 

615
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:56,800
business forward? 
The pilot doesn't serve drinks 

616
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,400
on the plane. 
Real estate agents in Australia 

617
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,400
have worked out that the highest
and best use of an estate agent 

618
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:11,280
is to list, sell, negotiate, 
build their personal brand, work

619
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,200
bias, deal making. 
They're the highest dollar 

620
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,840
value. 
In addition to that, an estate 

621
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,840
agent still needs to do their 
marketing, their administration,

622
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,320
cleaning out their database, all
these other things that are 

623
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:32,240
often £15 an hour jobs. 
Right when I get on an airplane 

624
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,480
to go to my next destination, 
there'll be a pilot and there'll

625
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,400
be the crew, the flight 
attendants, and when they start 

626
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:47,560
serving coffee, tea, Coke 0, 
what will happen is the pilot 

627
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,160
does not leave the cockpit. 
The pilot keeps flying the plane

628
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,360
and the real estate agent must 
continue prospecting, must 

629
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,520
continue listing, must continue 
servicing their car inventors 

630
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,160
must continue putting deals 
together. 

631
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,360
They can't leave that to sit in 
front of their computer spending

632
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,520
hours doing database work that 
others can do. 

633
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:12,760
So I say probably the ability to
delegate and to actually employ 

634
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,440
often a remote professional, 
virtual assistants at a fraction

635
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,320
of the cost that what you'd pay 
on shore. 

636
00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:22,760
So I think Aussie agents have 
built a model that helps them 

637
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,199
being efficient to do business 
at scale. 

638
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:31,960
The second thing is they 
probably have been a lot better 

639
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:39,719
at understanding brand building,
building a personal brand as we 

640
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,320
move into an environment where 
calls are being screened a lot 

641
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:44,400
more. 
Simon Yeah. 

642
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:48,000
You know that that you ring 
someone, it says what's your 

643
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,760
name and what's the purpose of 
the call? 

644
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,480
Nelly didn't answer your call 
when you rang me. 

645
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,080
Well, well, there you go. 
I mean, I have real estate 

646
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,520
agents that sometimes have 
difficulty calling their own 

647
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,880
vendors to give them news and 
offers because of the call 

648
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,360
screening. 
Think about it. 

649
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,120
This is a client you've already 
been dealing with and it's 

650
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,360
getting intercepted. 
So I think if you're in the UK, 

651
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:17,440
you better accept that both AI, 
which is allowing a client to 

652
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:22,880
now go to ChatGPT or Claude or 
Gemini and say I want to sell my

653
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:27,240
house in Mayfair. 
Who are the agents I should call

654
00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:28,480
out? 
Right. 

655
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,280
You need to accept that that's 
happening. 

656
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,400
You need to accept that your 
calls are being screened. 

657
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,320
And you need to accept that the 
single one thing that is the 

658
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,440
best business strategy, the 
safest strategy, the insurance 

659
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,880
policy of your real estate 
career is to build a personal 

660
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,920
brand. 
Because it's not who you know, 

661
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,520
it's who knows you. 
And what you've got to do is 

662
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,120
understand that you've got to 
become a magnet that gets people

663
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,480
to come to you. 
And Aussie and New Zealand 

664
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,600
agents have learnt that you've 
got to build a personal brand 

665
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,080
and the way that you do it. 
And brand, by the way, is what 

666
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,680
people say about you when you're
not in your room, in the room. 

667
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,080
That's what brand is. 
And the way that they build it 

668
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,120
is through video, through 
social, through immersing 

669
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,520
themselves in the communities, 
through banners, through 

670
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,400
sponsorships. 
There's lots of ways I think 

671
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,000
that Aussie agents do that a lot
better than the agents here. 

672
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,280
Best known beats best. 
Correct. 

673
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:25,120
So in terms of the people you 
surround yourself like friends, 

674
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,520
people you go into business 
with, clients you work with, 

675
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,520
what are the three non 
negotiables of those people? 

676
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:42,760
So #1 if they're a person that 
sees life as being scarce, if 

677
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:47,520
they're a person that sees life 
as being evil, if they're a 

678
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:52,000
person that looks at life as 
things might go wrong. 

679
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:58,840
I don't Simon say I, I say to 
them, I don't want to have 

680
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:03,600
nothing to do with you. 
But I lean away, right? 

681
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,040
Because I don't think it's 
helpful. 

682
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:12,200
So they're the first. 
The second is anyone that I've 

683
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:19,080
caught lying, right? 
Because they could have spent 10

684
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:25,000
years building a relationship, 
but a lie gets rid of those 10 

685
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,520
years because it says to me, if 
they lied about that, what else 

686
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,800
have they lied about? 
So that would be the second 

687
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:37,040
thing. 
And I like dealing with nice 

688
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:38,560
people. 
You're a nice person. 

689
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,480
You said, yeah, you're a nice 
person. 

690
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:45,200
Like you're not hard and, you 
know, making things difficult, 

691
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:46,720
right? 
You know, you like. 

692
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:53,400
So I don't like people that you 
have a conversation with them 

693
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:58,080
and then you actually walk away 
and you think I feel less. 

694
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,640
I feel like there's been a 
diminishing of energy. 

695
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:06,760
So I normally lean into more 
people that are illuminators, 

696
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:11,240
that are energizers, that when 
you finish the conversation, you

697
00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:13,720
actually feel better, right? 
Yeah. 

698
00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:16,800
Are you a drain or a radiator? 
I like that, yeah. 

699
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,080
Bringing energy to it or you 
sucking energy would say mood 

700
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,360
hoovers. 
Like there's you know, you know,

701
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,320
it's like you get someone walk 
into the office. 

702
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,120
Yeah, morning. 
And he's like, oh great, that's 

703
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,400
a mood Hoover. 
It's going to bring everyone 

704
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,720
down and there's AI. 
Don't know if I've said this 

705
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:33,200
before. 
It's a brilliant quote from Alex

706
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,720
for Mosey and I heard it a few 
months ago. 

707
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:38,320
It's really, really stuck with 
me. 

708
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:43,280
And the quote was if you can 
wake up in a bad mood for no 

709
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,040
reason, you can wake up in a 
good mood for no reason. 

710
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:49,320
OK, I like that because I think 
mood is a choice. 

711
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:56,440
It's a button, right? 
And even even when you wake up 

712
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:04,120
and you had a fight the night 
before and it's raining and you 

713
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:09,480
look at your diary and your 
first appointment is with 

714
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,840
someone, that it's not going to 
go well. 

715
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,920
Even with all of that, I accept 
that that it might not be the 

716
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,920
perfect morning to wake up, but 
I think that things could always

717
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,760
be worse. 
So it's a question I wanted to 

718
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,880
ask you, considering everything 
you've gone through in your 

719
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,120
life. 
And I'm really hope I I say the 

720
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,640
question, right? 
If you were to write down your 

721
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,400
biggest problem on a piece of 
paper and you put it into a hat.

722
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,960
Yeah. 
Along with all the billions of 

723
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,440
other people in the world who 
put their problems in the hat. 

724
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,040
Yeah. 
Would you put your biggest 

725
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,920
problem in and then take someone
else's problem out? 

726
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:51,960
Or would you go, do you know 
what? 

727
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,360
I'll stay with my problem. 
That is a top question. 

728
00:40:00,830 --> 00:40:05,150
I can live with my own biggest 
problem because I've lived with 

729
00:40:05,150 --> 00:40:08,430
it. 
Yeah, I've experienced it and I 

730
00:40:08,430 --> 00:40:14,150
know it's doable, but I'm not 
quite sure if the one I pulled 

731
00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:18,870
out is something I could handle.
I'm not quite sure. 

732
00:40:19,150 --> 00:40:23,560
I don't know. 
I can handle cancer. 

733
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,680
I can handle having another 
relapse. 

734
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:32,160
I don't know if I could handle 
one of my child dying. 

735
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,680
I don't know. 
I don't know if I could handle a

736
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,520
suicide of a family member. 
I don't know. 

737
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,920
So I'm happy to take what I've 
got. 

738
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,280
It really, it really reframes 
it, doesn't it? 

739
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,840
I only heard of that recently 
and I was like, yeah, next time 

740
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,480
I'm thinking I've got a shit 
problem. 

741
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,320
Would would I? 
Would I play roulette and put my

742
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:56,960
problem in in the hat? 
I mean, you're going to think 

743
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,160
I'm crazy and corny, but I have 
a strategy that gets me from 

744
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:05,080
stuck to UN stuck, gets me from 
sad to reasonably OK, not 

745
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,440
necessarily exhilarated, but 
gets me moving forward. 

746
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,040
And that is when the shit's gone
down, When something's not going

747
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,960
right. 
I hop into my car, I press RPA, 

748
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,760
chemotherapy ward. 
I go there. 

749
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,400
I walk in casually for one 
minute. 

750
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,000
I speak to no one. 
And I get perspective because 

751
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,840
I've sat in that room and I've 
sat there and I've looked out 

752
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,240
the window where normal healthy 
people are walking outside. 

753
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:38,400
And I've sat there pray to God, 
saying God, if you save me from 

754
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:43,560
dying and Get Me Out of this 
place healthy, I promise I won't

755
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,920
complain. 
I won't winch, I won't sweat the

756
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,720
small stuff. 
And when I start sweating the 

757
00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:54,440
small stuff, I automatically 
drive back to the chemo ward 

758
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:58,480
because it reminds me of the 
commitment I made at that time. 

759
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:03,560
And nearly every time I've 
walked back with a new lease of 

760
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,280
energy thinking it could be 
worse. 

761
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:11,000
I just saw a 35 year old young 
female wearing a wig. 

762
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:17,160
She's got jauntus, she's about 
30 kilos and to me it's not 

763
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,680
looking good. 
And when I walk out of there, I 

764
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,800
think Tom, stop fucking 
complaining. 

765
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,760
It could be worse. 
Some of the person is waking up 

766
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,000
this morning and they're going 
to have their last breath of 

767
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,480
life. 
So I focus on that and that is 

768
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,320
something that everyone should 
and that is to be grateful. 

769
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,800
Now, don't get me wrong, I know 
that a lot of people that are 

770
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,200
going to be listening to this 
are going to say, but Tommy, you

771
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,160
don't get it. 
The UK life is hard. 

772
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,440
You don't understand how hard it
is. 

773
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,280
Listen, it could be worse. 
You could be waking up today 

774
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,520
like a young girl is woken up 
with HIV in Ethiopia. 

775
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,000
Why should you have won the 
birth lottery and she hasn't? 

776
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,520
We got to be mindful and 
cognizant of that, Simon. 

777
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,120
Yeah, I was literally just 
before you said the words birth 

778
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,480
lottery. 
That's exactly what was going 

779
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,400
through my head. 
I I say my say to myself 

780
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,280
constantly remember how lucky 
you are that you've won the 

781
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,480
birth lottery. 
I'm a a white man born in 

782
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,120
England. 
Like don't get much luckier than

783
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,960
that. 
A. 100% And we've got to accept 

784
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:20,920
that. 
I mean, there's someone this 

785
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:26,040
morning that's waking up and 
seeing missiles either landing 

786
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,400
or being intercepted above them.
There's someone waking up this 

787
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,880
morning that actually he's 
sitting there looking at photos 

788
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,000
of their kid that's committed 
suicide, right? 

789
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,600
I mean, these are things that 
I've been impacted. 

790
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,600
I mean, I've had close. 
Matt Steinway is a very close 

791
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,680
friend of mine. 
I've known him for 35 years and 

792
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,640
he's a client of mine. 
We're very close. 

793
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:54,920
In fact, when I got sick, you 
know, Simon, the first person 

794
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,280
that showed up in my life was 
Matt Steinway. 

795
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,960
That said, Tom, I'm taking over 
the real estate gym. 

796
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,440
You're going to get better and I
don't want any money for it. 

797
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,440
That's what's Matt Steinway, 
right? 

798
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,720
And many of, I mean, you 
obviously know Simon because 

799
00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:16,040
you've had him as a guest. 
He's lost his son right through 

800
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,680
one of the incidents that we've 
just been speaking about. 

801
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:25,080
So I'm, you know, I'm, I, I 
talked to people in real estate,

802
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,800
but I also know, like I did this
morning, we were talking to 

803
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,240
Keller Williams. 
We were there together, you 

804
00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:34,480
know, They might be smiling, but
I also know that someone is 

805
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,440
living a quiet life of private 
desperation sometimes. 

806
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,120
I understand that. 
Yeah, and the same it comes to 

807
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:42,680
mind. 
There is in a world where you 

808
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,640
can be anything, always be kind.
You never know what people are 

809
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:46,640
going through. 
It's free. 

810
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:51,400
I mean, I signing up, I mean, 
the last time I remember that 

811
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,680
this impacted to me about 
stopping someone was I was 

812
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,040
walking through a shopping 
centre like a Costco in 

813
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:58,360
Australia. 
We called it Woolies. 

814
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,600
And I had a trolley and I'm 
walking through on a Tuesday 

815
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,920
night. 
I remember it and there's a lady

816
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,760
wearing a business outfit and 
she's walking towards me with 

817
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,080
her trolley and she just breaks 
down crying. 

818
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,720
She was crying uncontrollably as
she's going through on an aisle.

819
00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:16,720
Not many people on the aisle. 
And I just thought, do I say 

820
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:22,200
something here? 
And I said, excuse me, are you 

821
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,040
OK? 
And she stops crying for one 

822
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:31,680
instant and she goes, no, I'm 
not, but thank you for asking. 

823
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,520
And started crying again and 
walked away. 

824
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,800
So like, it's free to be nice, 
you know? 

825
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,120
Right, coming towards the end. 
Now let's try and get one more 

826
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:49,640
estate agency impression to you.
Because I know all they want to 

827
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,640
do make money here, isn't it I? 
Don't know about that. 

828
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,680
It's funny you say that because 
I go through this, I have a real

829
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:03,160
split in terms of being a 
capitalist is I want to go grow 

830
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,560
a really big business and be 
like really, really successful 

831
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,920
from a financial point of view. 
And then some days I wake up 

832
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:13,160
very stoic and I read the Daily 
Stoic and stuff by Ryan Hood, 

833
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,120
and I go, do you know what? 
As long as I'm healthy, you 

834
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,880
know, my family are all healthy.
I've got a roof over my head. 

835
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,200
I can walk my dogs each day and 
play a bit of golf. 

836
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,560
I'm doing all right. 
Listen, I actually put a post up

837
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,400
today. 
I'm torn between two truths as 

838
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,760
well. 
The truth of understanding that 

839
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,760
there's a cohort of people that 
need help and support and life 

840
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,040
is hard. 
But I'm also got another truth, 

841
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,680
and that is we've got to be a 
progressive, innovative, 

842
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,160
aggressive person because if 
you're not, there won't be 

843
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:44,640
growth and there won't be 
profits. 

844
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,760
And if there's no profits, you 
can't actually afford to help 

845
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,640
and support that cohort of 
people. 

846
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,600
So I totally get the concept of 
one minute, I'm going to change 

847
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,840
the world. 
The next minute, man, be happy. 

848
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,520
Have you ever heard the parable 
of a Mexican fisherman? 

849
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:00,840
No, I haven't. 
Right. 

850
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,960
I have to tell you this quickly.
I'm going to get it so, so bad. 

851
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,080
But go with me. 
You, you will. 

852
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,360
You'll read up on this and 
you'll tell it beautifully. 

853
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,280
So I first heard Sahil Bloom, 
the author of the five times as 

854
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,000
well, to speak about it. 
And Long story short, he 

855
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,280
basically, let's say he's an 
investment banker in America and

856
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,760
he's holidaying in Mexico and he
goes past this or sleepy Mexican

857
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,520
man in a fishing village and 
he's got some fish in a bucket 

858
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,600
and the American investment bank
goes, oh, caught some fish. 

859
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:29,880
Have you went? 
Yeah, yeah, I've caught some 

860
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:30,840
fish. 
Amazing. 

861
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,320
How long did that take you? 
I've, you know, the afternoon. 

862
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:35,760
Oh, brilliant. 
What's, what's your plan for the

863
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,520
rest of the day? 
I go home, cook some dinner, 

864
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,640
just like spend time with my 
loved ones, go into the town and

865
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,160
have a, you know, a glass of 
wine, have a sing song, have a 

866
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,840
dance, and I'll go home. 
Oh, OK. 

867
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:50,120
Nice. 
And what about tomorrow? 

868
00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:52,960
I'll do it all over again. 
Investment bank goes. 

869
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,040
You're pretty good at this 
fishing stuff. 

870
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,080
Couldn't you like you could fish
a lot more and then you could 

871
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,400
have a stall and you could sell 
them make make money? 

872
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:03,880
Why? 
Why would I do that? 

873
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,960
The the fisherman says, he says,
well so then you get a really 

874
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,840
big shop and you can employ 
loads of people and you make 

875
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,720
even more money. 
Again the fisherman says, why 

876
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:15,160
would I do that? 
Because then you go to America 

877
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,880
and you go on the Stock Exchange
and you sell for billions of 

878
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:19,600
pounds. 
And again the fisherman goes, 

879
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,320
why would I do that? 
And he says, well then you can 

880
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,520
retire and be free and do 
anything you want. 

881
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:29,000
What would you do? 
I think I'll just fish. 

882
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,080
Listen, that is absolutely gold,
absolutely gold. 

883
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,800
And it actually says to me what 
we've always known. 

884
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,680
And that is that. 
And chances are you've got 

885
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,600
everything that you want in your
life right now. 

886
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:44,920
Yeah. 
And you don't know it. 

887
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:46,000
Yeah. 
But you're sitting there 

888
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,920
thinking to yourself, if this 
happens, I'll be happy. 

889
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,720
Listen, in Byron Bay, when I'm 
staying at my house in Byron 

890
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:55,040
Bay, which is the beachside area
in in Australia that I stay at, 

891
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:58,800
I've got a guy that lives a few 
doors up who's a surfer, right? 

892
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,440
He wakes up and he lives that 
same life there. 

893
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:08,640
And he just says to me, Tommy 
wins right direction, Suns out, 

894
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:10,800
guns out. 
It's going to be a cracker of a 

895
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,720
day. 
He has created a set of 

896
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:18,520
happiness expectations to be 
achievable without not too much 

897
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,200
money, right? 
Turns out, and I covered it 

898
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,600
yesterday when we were talking 
in Birmingham, turns out the 

899
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,800
research of people thinking that
they've got to, you know, be a 

900
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,240
billionaire to be happy, No man,
just above the poverty line 

901
00:49:31,240 --> 00:49:33,480
means that you're going to be 
able to have the food that you 

902
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:37,000
can eat, sleep in only one bed 
that you can have, have the 

903
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,800
people around you that matter. 
That's not a money thing. 

904
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,160
So if you think to yourself I'm 
going to end up becoming happy 

905
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:47,200
when I start making £1,000,000 
in real estate, let me tell you,

906
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,520
if you're not happy now, you 
won't be happy then. 

907
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:55,240
So to try and give you quickly 
a, a, a real life example of 

908
00:49:55,240 --> 00:49:57,400
that, I've I've heard it called 
the hedonic treadmill. 

909
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,960
And there's a story of someone's
sold their company for proper 

910
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,280
fuck you money, like millions 
and billions of pounds. 

911
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,960
And he's on his private yacht. 
He pops open the champagne and 

912
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,720
he's like pouring a glass 
champagne to his friend and all 

913
00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:12,680
their friends and family there. 
He's like, I've made it. 

914
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,600
I'm on this yacht. 
And the friend takes the 

915
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,160
champagne and goes, thanks, Tom,
but that yacht's a lot bigger 

916
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,920
next door to yours, isn't it? 
And he's like, fuck, now I need 

917
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:23,160
to get back on that hedonic 
tremor. 

918
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:24,440
I need to go again, build a 
business. 

919
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,760
And when I came, this funny 
story I've not told, I wanted to

920
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,120
tell us on stage, yes. 
Now I forgot to when I came off 

921
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:36,560
stage last year at Sean's event.
And I was driving home and I'd 

922
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,400
opened up and you'd been the 
headline speaker. 

923
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,760
And I drove home. 
Felt like 1,000,000 bucks, like 

924
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,480
music, full blast, window down, 
Suns out, guns out. 

925
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,080
I was loving life. 
I was like, this is absolutely 

926
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,360
unbelievable. 
But then part of me was like, 

927
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:52,600
how am I ever going to exceed 
that? 

928
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:54,320
How do I go again? 
Like I said to you about 

929
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,960
speaking at Wembley, how do you 
go speaking on big stage 

930
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:58,880
Wembley? 
And what was really funny was I 

931
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,200
got home and I take my phone out
the charger in my car and I look

932
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:05,720
at it and it's Louise, my missus
saying the dog's got diarrhea, 

933
00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:07,320
wipe its arse when you get 
through the door. 

934
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:10,280
And I went, I've gone from being
on stage, but. 

935
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,320
From here with. 
Tom Paz from here and the 

936
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,160
heights of exhilaration to the 
depths of depression like that 

937
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:18,840
and it just made me switch 
going. 

938
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:23,000
You got to enjoy the ride of 
getting there and not get too 

939
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,960
sucked up in in the moment like 
it's it's really great getting 

940
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,000
to the top of the. 
Hill Look, I got to tell you 

941
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,080
that beautiful story that you 
just said, the fisherman. 

942
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:41,960
So I have a view that you can 
have an impact and make an 

943
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:46,640
income, and that whilst money 
won't get rid of your problems, 

944
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,080
it'll help get to your problems 
with style. 

945
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:55,120
And that you shouldn't have this
aversion to say that, oh, I've 

946
00:51:55,120 --> 00:52:01,560
chosen that I won't participate 
in working hard because I want 

947
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,000
to be happy. 
Why does it have to be binary? 

948
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,000
Like, why can't you have both, 
right? 

949
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:10,720
So I've had often have people. 
I've been married for 35 years, 

950
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:12,360
36 years. 
I've got two kids. 

951
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,160
And a lot of people say to me, 
but Tom, I don't want to work 

952
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,120
that hard because I want to keep
my marriage. 

953
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:19,600
Well, I work hard and I've kept 
my marriage. 

954
00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:22,680
It doesn't have to be binary. 
You probably have to make some 

955
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,440
compromises. 
And those compromises are, you 

956
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,360
know what? 
I won't sit on TikTok for two 

957
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:32,200
hours a day or I won't go out 
having pints of beer during the 

958
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,080
week or whatever it is. 
You can have it. 

959
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,600
I think it's important that 
people don't turn around and 

960
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:39,720
say, oh, if I do that, I can't 
have that. 

961
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:44,320
So yeah, I think you shouldn't 
have a self limited thinking and

962
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,640
have what you talked about that 
great book by Martin Seligman 

963
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,400
where he talked about fixed and 
growth mindsets. 

964
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,760
Learned optimism is actually the
name of the book. 

965
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,000
He was he was the actually the 
architect of personal 

966
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:57,880
development and positive 
thinking in the 60s. 

967
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,720
He was a Canadian professor. 
He was the first person that 

968
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:03,080
really actually studied and 
identified right. 

969
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,120
You can change the trajectory of
your life by the way that you 

970
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,600
think. 
Like, you know, back in the old 

971
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,320
days, a lot of the people used 
to think, well, this is the 

972
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:15,720
family I was brought up in, I'm 
not born into royalty, This is 

973
00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:18,520
my life. 
But we learnt in the 60s and 

974
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:20,560
70s, you can change the 
trajectory of your life. 

975
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:22,160
You're not a tree. 
If you're not happy, you can 

976
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,840
dare move, you know? 
Love that right coming towards 

977
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:27,880
the end now I'm going to try 
something a bit new so my 

978
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,480
girlfriend came home the other 
day with this little game of 

979
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,800
cards called impossible 
decisions, the little game of 

980
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,200
big choices. 
We're going to quickly run 

981
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:37,480
through two or three of these at
random. 

982
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:39,240
If I can open I'm. 
Getting uncomfortable? 

983
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:48,480
So would you rather be 
constantly gossiped about or 

984
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:53,240
never talked about at all? 
Gossiped about. 

985
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:59,280
OK, would you rather have nosy 
neighbors or noisy neighbors? 

986
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:04,520
I want to buy one of these 
things. 

987
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,160
By the way, where'd you get? 
These I don't know. 

988
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,160
I'll send you a pack. 
These are great. 

989
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:15,120
The answer is listen. 
In Byron Bay, the house next 

990
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:19,200
doors in Airbnb, and we're there
holidaying for two months. 

991
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:24,640
All the time. 
When they drink alcohol, they're

992
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:27,400
loud. 
When they come over and get 

993
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:29,760
stoned with marijuana, they're 
quiet. 

994
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:32,880
We sleep better when they're 
stoned. 

995
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,480
I'd pick the quiet. 
Right. 

996
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:36,720
OK. 
Do a couple more before the 

997
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:39,760
final question. 
OK, this is a proper random one.

998
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,160
Would you rather have a 
unicorn's horn or a mermaid's 

999
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:50,720
tail? 
Indifferent. 

1000
00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:53,960
More towards a mermaid's tail. 
OK, right. 

1001
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:01,960
Would you rather eat a tin of 
dog food or never be able to eat

1002
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:10,280
your favorite food again? 
Never to be able to eat my 

1003
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:12,520
favorite food again. 
Because I've got to tell you, 

1004
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,040
I'm not overly favorite with 
foods. 

1005
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:20,120
I eat the same thing, some 
protein, some vegetables, that's

1006
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:21,560
it. 
So if you turn around and say 

1007
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:23,960
you can't have that, I'll go 
find another protein. 

1008
00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:27,040
But I'm not interested in eating
any other crap that dogs eat. 

1009
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:28,760
Right. 
Final question for you. 

1010
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,920
I'm pretty sure I would have 
done this when you came on the 

1011
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:33,800
podcast over Zoom a year ago, 
but you had Stephen Bartlett 

1012
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:35,320
speak at Eric. 
Correct. 

1013
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:37,760
Not this year, last. 
Year last year and he does these

1014
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:39,840
things where they're called 
conversation cards. 

1015
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:41,680
Do you remember this? 
I don't know if I would have 

1016
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:42,000
done it. 
I. 

1017
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,280
Do but I've forgotten. 
So basically I do remember it 

1018
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,280
but. 
What he what I one of the things

1019
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,960
I really love about his podcast 
is at the end he gets the guest 

1020
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,080
to write a question for the next
guest, not knowing who they are.

1021
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,040
And then the next guest comes 
on, they have to answer. 

1022
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:55,520
Oh. 
Right. 

1023
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:57,080
Correct. 
Yes, Yes, I've heard him say 

1024
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,200
that. 
And then Stephen has monetized 

1025
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,800
it into these little things. 
So they have different levels. 

1026
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,520
Some level 1 is like quite 
chilled, like a mermaid Unicorn 

1027
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:07,640
question. 
And Level 3 is quite deep. 

1028
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:12,320
And we've got a Level 3 here. 
It was answered by Boris 

1029
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:16,560
Johnson, right? 
So get me, can I confirm what 

1030
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:17,520
are we doing? 
I'm going. 

1031
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:18,360
You're giving me a. 
Question. 

1032
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:19,600
You're going to answer the 
question. 

1033
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:21,200
OK, Yeah. 
So I should have explained that 

1034
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,400
and it was asked by Trevor Noah.
I don't know who Trevor Noah. 

1035
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:27,160
Trevor Noah is a brilliant South
African comedian. 

1036
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:31,120
OK, big Liverpool fan. 
OK, as am I. 

1037
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:33,920
We have a Greek Scouser, Costa 
Simacas. 

1038
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,680
Well. 
He's he's known as the Greek 

1039
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:38,520
Scouser. 
What do you mean a Scouser like?

1040
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,480
Scouser people from Liverpool 
are scous Scousers. 

1041
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:42,760
Really. 
Yeah, it's funny. 

1042
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,000
We're having this conversation. 
I got a text message from 

1043
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,800
someone this morning in 
Australia who said could you 

1044
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,120
please buy me a Liverpool jersey
while you're there? 

1045
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,480
And I replied back. 
They sell them in Australia, 

1046
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,960
mate. 
Fair enough, right. 

1047
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,000
The question I want you to 
answer, Tom, to end this, end, 

1048
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:03,760
this fantastic conversation, is 
success often comes at a price 

1049
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:07,360
and one of those is the 
relationships we lose along the 

1050
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,760
way. 
Which relationship or person did

1051
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:13,480
you lose in the pursuit of your 
success? 

1052
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,920
A lot of them, and I don't mind 
them, and I'll tell you why, 

1053
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:22,480
because Simon, I need you to 
know is if you're going down a 

1054
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:30,120
path and that path is your path 
and that path is your soul, is 

1055
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:33,720
your psychological fingerprint. 
And you've got people in your 

1056
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:38,840
life who might be considered as 
friends who don't understand 

1057
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:43,480
that path and can't work with 
that path and actually maybe 

1058
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:48,840
even judge that path and means 
that you go distant ways, it's 

1059
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:53,040
probably good for both parties. 
So to answer that question is 

1060
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:57,320
there's probably been people 
that couldn't see where I was 

1061
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:01,080
heading and why, you know, 
achieving certain goals matter 

1062
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:03,160
to me. 
And for some of these people, 

1063
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:06,640
they got upset that Tommy's not 
drinking pints with us on a 

1064
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,400
Tuesday, Wednesday. 
He's not one of the boys. 

1065
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:14,280
So with relationships like that,
sometimes you accept that 

1066
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:17,400
they're expired, like milk and 
cheese and bread. 

1067
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,520
They serve the purpose one day. 
And there comes a day where the 

1068
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,920
use bite says best. 
Before that dates gone. 

1069
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:26,600
Love that. 
Well, it's been an absolute 

1070
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:28,680
pleasure having this 
conversation with you. 

1071
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:30,880
Tom. 
This sounds so cringy. 

1072
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:32,160
I can't believe I'm saying it 
out loud. 

1073
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:33,800
But they say never meet your 
heroes. 

1074
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,120
You've been a hero of mine 
throughout my stage career and 

1075
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,080
I've, I owe you so much to you 
for everything I've learnt from 

1076
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:40,960
you over the past dozen years. 
So it's been an absolute. 

1077
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:42,040
Pleasure. 
I'd love to listen. 

1078
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,760
I'd love to do it again, whether
it's one of the two or three 

1079
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:48,720
times, I mean the UK or whether 
you want to jump on on a Zoom. 

1080
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:53,480
I enjoy these conversations. 
So till next time, thank you. 

1081
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:55,800
Brilliant. 
And for everyone watching or 

1082
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:59,640
listening at home, remember to 
like, review, subscribe, follow,

1083
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:01,360
share and I'll see you next 
time.