Hello and welcome to Opening the Gates to more listings for
Estate agents with me, Simon Gates.
And I'm absolutely honoured to be joined today for this 300
episode special with my very good friend, Mr. Matt Baldock.
Matt, thank you very much for joining me.
Simon, the honour is all mine mate.
Thank you very much for asking me to join you and in a little
switch to host this podcast. And go easy on me, yeah.
I will do so as it's episode 300.
Simon thought he'd change things up a bit.
And yeah, I am genuinely quite honoured.
He's kind of handed the reins to me.
And and for once, the interviewer is going to become
the interviewee. Listen, just generally before we
start because I, this is should probably be my ending, but I, I
don't know about your numbers, but I feel like people tail off
towards the end of of podcast. But Gatesy, I just want to say I
know you like your data. I did a little bit of research
and what I could work out was that there was something like
four and a half million podcasts in the world and 9 out of 10 of
them don't make it past episode 3, right.
So we can we're celebrating episode 300 and I think you like
you're calling a bit of a milestone, but I just I want you
and everyone to appreciate what you've done.
What you're doing is genuinely rare in the world of podcasts,
let alone in our kind of sector. So make a round of applause for
you. And I just want you to know
you've you've done something very special here.
So congratulations. Thank you very much.
That's the end of the podcast. There you go, there you go.
Right. Anyway, so rather I've just
been, I have been able to think about this rather than just
going, you know, well, who is your favorite guest, etcetera,
etcetera. And every answer being Matt
Baldock, I want to go, you know, just find out a bit more about
you and, and everything that kind of has happened since
you've started this. Really.
So firstly, when you did episode 1, did you ever could, did you
perceive it getting to 300 episodes?
You know, kind of and and has this podcast become what you
intended or, or has it taken a different form over the years?
I love that question. I, I think the beauty of it and
maybe why it's had a relative amount of success for me is that
there was no intention with it. It started as a hobby before and
after work. I listened to a lot of podcasts.
I'm a big learner, as you know, and I felt there was a gap in
the market where I was like, I feel like there's maybe
questions not being asked or there's answers I'm looking for,
which I'm not finding from other podcasts.
So why don't I ask the questions?
So that was the start of that. I think, you know, selfishly
from a commercial point of view at the time at Home search, Sam
had done pretty well from launching world class agency
podcasts. I thought, well, reading things
like Daniel Priestley oversubscribed to you person of
influence, rather than having to cold call a state agents like
Matt Baldock and get told to piss off.
It'd be nice for people to to come to come to me.
And then in terms of where I saw it going, you, you shared that
status to start. And yes, I'm, I am a data geek
and I know that the numbers are you need to do 21 episodes to be
in the top 1% podcasters in the world.
So I think my first aim was get to 21 episodes.
So I think it was July 22. I was recording an episode
before and after work. So 8:00 in the morning, 5:00 at
night. And I think over that July
period or whenever it was, it's like, but I've, I've got my 21
episodes in the bank. So I think that's a key point to
start with. I think I've seen a lot of
podcasts in and out the industry come and go because they maybe
do one podcast, but then they don't shout about it enough and
then they go, oh, that wasn't really good was it?
And then they don't end up carrying it on.
So I just batched a load of content at the start knowing
that I didn't worry and didn't need to worry about, you know,
getting more guests. And I also still do most of
these podcasts like we're doing over Zoom now.
There's no excuse. Like I don't need loads of money
for a studio. I don't need to travel all
around the country. It literally is just having a an
Internet connection, a Zoom account, and someone's chatted
to on the other side for 45 minutes to an hour.
I, I get that and, and you've, you've done very well to keep it
very simple, but as somebody who is one of those who has a
sporadic podcast search up talking Bulldogs, wherever you
like to find it consistency and, and I know like, I, I think
you're the epitome of consistency.
I've said that, I've said that before you, you show that you
know, little talent can get you quite far as long as you're
consistent. But apart apart from the
batching of things, have you, do you have a system to stay
consistent because or has there ever been a point when you just
thought, I can't be asked this week or I'm not really getting
what I wanted out of it? And have you ever felt like
giving up? Never felt like giving up, No,
but you definitely get to point. It's that messy middle where I
think it's such a cliche, but that classic, we've all seen
them picture of the guy digging for diamonds and he's just about
to do that last bang on the on the rock.
And then he turns round that, yeah, that messy middle.
I all messy middle or maybe after messy middle.
Like I, I don't want to come out the wrong way, but like when you
get to like 100 and 5200 episodes and you've had
conversations with like Damien Hughes, Tom Panos, Josh Fegan,
you know, some huge names both inside out inside the industry.
And then you're like, fuck, how do I go from there?
And then go on at another level. So, so that sometimes makes it
tough. But yeah, what?
Once or twice you go art. Is the content getting a little
bit samey? Are people still interested in
listening to this? What's the point in it?
But then you'll get a message from someone out of nowhere
going. I've just listened to this
episode and it helped me win an instruction.
I'm like, I released that like 2 years ago.
So you, you, I think a lot of, a lot of feedback is silent,
right? That whole silent audience.
So it's, it's nice when people reach out to you and the, the
boring consistency. I'm rambling now, but it's a bit
like it's so boring. But like every time I release a
podcast of two a week, I put it on my Facebook group and
LinkedIn every single time. Welcome to episode, whatever it
is. Here's a key point.
Remember to like, review, subscribe, follow, share.
It's boring, but people keep seeing it, seeing it, and seeing
it. That that's the key, right,
Isn't it? And they say that about most
high performers and, and obviously athletes, which
obviously I am one of is that is it's not they necessarily enjoy
going to the gym or doing the work, but they're willing to do
the boring stuff more than the the average person is, right.
And that's, I think is, is, and I think that can be taken
through most things in life and certainly into a state agency,
which we'll we'll come onto in a bit.
But I think the people are willing to do the boring work
consistently without the instant gratification, the ones that
tend to win. Yeah.
I think everyone's searching for instant gratification, aren't
they? Particularly the world we now
live in. But if you'd said to me in
episode 1, I don't know, once you hit 100 and 5200 episodes,
you'll have Tom Panos on the podcast and then you'll be
opening up a conference for him. I'd be like, tell me how fucking
quick I can release 100 and 5200 episodes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and I think too many and to
relate it to estate agency, I think too many agents, whether
it's like they first launch or they want to go into higher end
of the market, that instant gratification you talk about
then, you know, would I be able to get a Tom Panos in episode 1?
Of course I fucking can't. No, no, no.
And I think Phil M Jones said said that to me actually, was
that when I reached out to him and I'd said, I've done 150
something episodes. Do you want to come on as a
guest? That was the sweet spot for him.
He's like, he'd shown that this isn't just for shits and
giggles, like it's a serious thing and you're not playing at
it. Whereas he said he'd get so his
his thing is they've got to have done at least 21 episodes to be
in that top 1%. Otherwise he just wouldn't even
consider it. Yeah.
So yeah, I think it's such a boring answer, but just doing
the boring, consistent stuff will get you ahead of 99% of
people. Mate, I, I think you'll have
this in, in obviously in your line of work.
And I have it when, when, sometimes when I'm working with
agents, I think everyone, I think the boring answers are
just sometimes the ones that work and, and sometimes
everybody wants you to come out with this huge mind blowing
thing. But it's the boring stuff.
Works a lot of time. So it's on your point.
Now I see it all the time and I can sometimes fall into trap
myself, particularly in the AI world we're we're living in now.
You know, when you see something on social where someone says,
I've got this new crazy AI formula comment the word clawed,
and you see people clock, clock, clock, clock, clock.
And I'm like, do you know what? If you actually look at that
person's social media as an example, you haven't posted for
three months or you're sporadic in your posting.
The secret lies in the boring work that you're putting off
doing and you're cut. You're trying to cut corners
looking for that silver bullet. But yeah, the silver bullet is
just be more consistent than a person next to you and fall in
love with doing the boring stuff.
Fall in love with doing the boring stuff.
Yeah, to quote Gatesy. Love that.
Just just out of interest, it is going back a bit, but you said
when you recorded episode 1, if we'd have said you could have
Tom Panos at 1:50, you know, you'd have you'd have said
right. How how can I get there back in
2007 when you was the weekend assistant?
Have I got that right? Yeah.
If we'd have said to you then Simon, Fast forward to, you
know, 2026, you're going to be this big kind of, you know,
interesting and you're going to have your own podcast and you're
going to have been interviewing this calibre of people.
Would would you have believed it back then?
Probably not, but I'd say when it comes to like let's say fixed
mindset, growth mindset, I feel like I was too young at that
point at 16 where I wouldn't even that that kind of whole
mindset thing wouldn't even cross my mind.
But if you'd said to me, I'm going to say in 2020 when I quit
Michael Graham and joined Home Search, if you said at that
point I'd be like, are you talking about absolute bollocks?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like not not a chance That so.
So, so, so when you sat in your car, and I think the story is,
you know, you sat in your your car and you phoned Sam, we
messaged Sam said, yeah, let's do it.
At that point you couldn't probably perceive where where it
would lead you. No because I think I had AI.
Had a lot of self doubt at that point because I was told by my
old boss you'll fuck it up in London, you'll be back here in
six months asking for your job. But I won't give you that.
You'll have to come back at the bottom as a neck.
It's like cheers mate. So I think I left, I left to say
actually going into the dark side of prop tech, pretty
nervous thinking have I really fucked up here?
Have I have I done the wrong thing?
But the amount of people I speak to where they're like aren't
thinking of going self-employed or whatever.
And it's like, if it doesn't work, do you think you could go
and get a job again? And they go, yeah, yeah,
exactly. That's, but I think it's so
British. We, we fear failure, right?
Like we don't want to look like an idiot.
And it, it's funny on like, I guess two sides of this.
One, you don't want to fail and look like an idiot.
And then on the second side, when my mates take the piss out
of me for the stuff I put on social media and it's like,
well, if I didn't post anything, I failed.
They're going to laugh at me for failing.
And then I post stuff to try and succeed.
You're going to laugh at me because I'm trying to better
myself. You're like, you're damned if
you do, damned if you don't, which frustrates me in this
country. But going back to the point of
the mindset side of things, I've, you know, because I still
struggle with it now, but I've worked so, so hard in the past
decade on, on my mindset. And I think a lot of people
struggle with it. Yeah, No, I I definitely agree.
We we do see that. So beyond what?
Because obviously, you know, you have a very successful business
here and then the podcast is a part of that.
But beyond the business for you personally, what, what's kind of
the policy? Would you say it's that kind of
personal growth and that that shift in mindset that that the
podcast has benefited you the most?
Oh God, what do I answer to that?
I think the, the podcast really has the I think the big thing or
where my brain has gone to when you've asked that is the amount
of people right at the start, actually, people like you,
Stephen Brown, Sam Hunter, big supporters at the start when I
something did in a podcast where you come on as a guest and I was
blown away at the start of people saying, yes, So this is
amazing. And then fast forwarding and
you're having again, conversations with these names
from all over the world, which is incredible.
It's like, wow, they must see something in me or believe, you
know, believe I'm worth having a conversation with.
So I think that's the key thing. I would say I've taken away from
the podcast in terms of confidence, but I'm, I'm worth
having a conversation with. And then I love it like again,
when I get a message from someone saying I listened to
your podcast, I implemented X and I got a result from it.
And I remember I did a podcast recently, which hasn't been
released yet. And at the end of the
conversation, the person I was interviewing said, you can tell
that you absolutely love this and you've done hundreds of
these episodes because of the way you conduct yourself.
And I was like, yeah, you should have like heard Episode 1 where
it's like very scripted, like it would have been.
What's your favorite book? OK, great.
What's your favorite podcast? Great.
Who's the person to follow? Great.
It was like, no natural conversation flow to it.
And I think people can get in the way of themselves as well
without whether it's a podcast, recording video content, writing
posts on social media, sending out letters.
Like your first attempt is going to be the shittest, right?
But once you do it 100 times, it's going to be a lot better
than the first time. Just going to remember that.
I think this is my first time actually interviewing someone on
a podcast. I'd probably say thanks for
that. So question 20, what is your
favorite book? So just in, in terms of that.
So it seems like you've yeah, you feel you've grown you and I
know you personally do still have some self, some self doubt.
And, and I think probably a bit like me, you come across as very
outwardly confident, especially when you're on your podcast and
you're at the events and, and things like that.
And I think it's easy. It is.
It's a bit like a state agency. It's easy to think it's easy
from the outside, right? When you look at it, you know,
Gates, what do you do really? You do a podcast a couple of
times a week and put out a bit of data, But what is actually
what's because you're a brand that's opening the Gates is 100%
a brand. And Simon Gates is a brand.
There's no two ways about it. What's been harder about
building the brand than you think people would think it is?
Oh, not a question. So I would give 2 answers to it.
The first one for the boring consistency of being boringly
consistent is people don't realise just that graft of
staying consistent. Like when they see are you've
you've gone and played golf here or, oh, look, you've gone on
that trip or are you going to watch football or are you
speaking at that conference? And it's like Instagram only
shows the highlights, not the full life, right?
Yeah, yeah. Not showing when I've had to be
at my desk at 5:00 AM that morning or I'm at my desk at 11
at night. Just, you know, to make sure
that I'm, I'm on top of things at times because things can get
busy. And something you would have
said to me back in my home search days when you'd be like,
why are you responding to an e-mail at 8:00 at night, like
your hours nine to five. You don't need to come back to
me now. And I, I, I, I still struggle
with that. And I know lots of others will
as well. So we're recording this not long
after I went away to Valencia for a city break and I'd have
people message me going, oh, can you help me out of XYZ?
And I'd be like, I'm really sorry.
I'm away at the moment. They're like, amazing.
Have a great time. Where are you?
I'm in Valencia. Oh, I've got a recommendation
chat to me when you're back on Monday and you're like, and
every time it's still in your headers.
I'm really sorry. I'm away.
And they're like, don't be sorry.
Like you worked hard. Good on you.
So that's the first point there. The second point on it I would
say is, and I know you'll know where I'm coming from when I say
this, it doesn't actually keep me up at night.
But let's say, hypothetically, the thing that keeps me up at
night is becoming irrelevant. I do not.
I do not want to be that guy. When?
Where Matt. Matt Baldock posts on LinkedIn
going well, who the fuck is this guy?
He hasn't sold the house for 20 years.
Yeah, what does he know? So I really that's.
Coming out next week. But I really try and keep my
finger on the pulse like I'm I'm really engrossed in a statement.
Yes, I'm not on the front line doing valves, selling houses,
etcetera. But every week I'm having a
conversation with friends, family, acquaintances where
they're asking for my advice on stuff.
And then I've got the estate, which I work with as well.
So yeah, I, I want to try and stay relevant with that.
And it's also not being a 1 trick pony.
But I think I'm fearful that if I go up on stage at an event, I
don't want someone to go. I've seen him do that before,
sure, because I've I've had that numerous.
Times, let's be honest. There, there, there.
There is a lot. There is a bit of that that goes
on. You know, we've both been to
conferences and you can quote verbatim what the person's going
to say. Yeah.
So it's, it's trying to, yeah, it's trying to keep finding new
things and the start in my usual day when I'm at home, when I'm
sat at my desk for morning coffee.
And you know, I've, I've read the industry press.
I'm then spending time going, what are ways in which I can
help estate agents generate more leads or how can they improve
conversion rate or get higher fees?
My day always starts with exploring.
So trying to figure out how I can add more value.
And it's a bit like a typical estate agent day should ideally
start with, you know, eat the frog first try and generate
leads, right? But how many estate agents start
with, I'll respond to all those emails.
I'll tick off my To Do List. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, if you don't have leads come into business, as our
friend Mert would say, yeah, you're you're screwed with that.
So yeah, that's the thing that that I, that I find difficult is
constantly keep coming up with new things.
But but then at the same time, I might be in a room where some of
the room have seen me before or know who I am, but then there'll
be others who don't don't have a Scooby.
And I'll tell you a very, very quick story that what's the
what's the word I need here? Bring you back two stories
quickly, actually, and then I'll shut up.
It's. Your podcast to be fair mate.
I remember. So Dan Firth introduced me to a
company and I went and did some training with, I don't know,
half a dozen to a dozen of their branch managers.
And Dan like introduced me. He's like, and this is Simon
Gates from openly Gates from all listeners.
I'm sure you've all all listened to the podcast Tumbleweed now,
like never heard of it. And I was like, cool, nice.
And then a very humbly moment again was coming away from
opening up the Estate Agent Success Summit last year for Tom
Panos. And I'm driving home just
buzzing about the whole thing. It was amazing.
I park up in my driveway and I'd, I'd go to pick up my phone
and I have a WhatsApp from Louise saying the dog's got
diarrhoea, can you wipe your ass when he walks through the door?
And I'm like, oh, wait to bring the guy back down to earth.
I was like, you know, ready to walk through the door and be
like, Oh my God, like, what an amazing day.
Like I met Tom that was on stage.
Like, it was awesome. And it's like, yeah, you need to
wipe the dog's ass, like. Cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think sometimes and and I have
to give myself a bit of a check and I check with kind of the
circle of friends that have in in this line is that we do.
We're in quite a small pond sometimes.
There's a lot of kind of like big.
You're right. I mean, I've had it in the past,
been really excited. I remember the first time I got
to go on the Chris Watkins so far and someone, you know,
enables me. Who's Chris Watkins.
I was like, what are you talking about?
You know, and it kind of, yeah, it does take the wind out of
you, out of yourselves a little bit, but you do so just in terms
of you kind of going and speaking to a lot of people
obviously. And you work with, you know,
well, I think, you know, probably thousands of agents now
you've, you've, you've kind of worked with, do you feel
sometimes people want you to have opinions on things?
And are you kind of not, not scared, but obviously you, you
don't want to, you want to work with a lot of people.
And you're, you're genuinely a very, very good guy.
You are, you know, just a very nice person.
You know, unless you, you know, unless you want your personal
WhatsApp feeds, seeing the memes, you're saying no.
So do you feel kind of a pressure sometimes to not have
too strong an opinion? Or do you or do you sometimes
feel people are trying to channel you down an opinion they
want you to have? Because it'd be really good to
have Simon Gates kind of vote behind what I'm what I'm saying.
I kind of like I, I go against my own advice when I speak to
agents where I'm like, you don't want to be too vanilla because
then you're bland and no one knows who you are.
But I am such AI want people to like me.
So I I don't want to have too much of an opinion publicly.
Like when I see the politics, I mean, politics is being talked
about so much at the moment online.
It's crazy. And like, I don't want to
personally be given my opinion on that publicly because, you
know, what's that thing they say?
Three things I want to discuss at dinner party.
Sex, religion and politics. And obviously there's lots of
like religion, politics being talked about on online.
But I think behind the scenes, I've have so many, whether it's
estate agents that can be going self-employed, whether it's the
next shiny new prop tech that's going to, you know, one more
sale and it will pay for itself kind of jazz.
I have so many conversations about that sort of stuff and
it's saying no to a lot more things when you say yes to.
But at the start I was saying yes to so many things because
you got to explore and figure out what works, what doesn't on
that in terms of the, the opinion as well.
I like to have my own opinion some and I'd like to back that
up with facts and data obviously, but I'll go and
research stuff. So data came out recently saying
I can't remember what it was, but it was like 10% of
properties sell the second agent.
That's bullshit. That's not the the the way the
metric is done. It's not correct.
If you actually look at it, it's more like 1/3 now.
I've just said that on my podcast, but am I going to go
out of my way online and be like, that piece of research is
absolute bullshit? I don't agree with it.
So who is that? Who is that?
Who is that helping that? But I think there's a lot of
attention seeking online as well, people wanting to be
relevant and they jump on bandwagons of are they let's go
slag this thing off or let's pull that out rather than
actually, you know, finding out who they truly are, what they
believe in, and then just being again, going back to consistency
work. Do do you, do you find so you,
you know, I think you're, you're on a mission to become the most
useful person to a stage. Do you feel asking now asking
just for an opinion? Do you feel we've might be in a
little bit of a world at the minute where estate agents are
more interested in being known than they are useful?
They're kind of actually trying to be kind of like more more
influencers than they are actually giving useful advice.
Yeah. And I think you've got the same
best known beats best right and there and there are there's lots
of agents out there who are getting through plenty of doors.
But then once they sat in the delivery opposite the owner is
quite shit really. They don't sell half the
properties they list. They price reduce 2 thirds, 3/4
of them. And then you've got another
agent going for God's sake, like I sell 80% of what I list.
I achieve the asking price, but I'm not getting call to these
properties. And it's like, yeah, but you,
you're not going online and doing something that you don't
agree with. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm confident
that I could get plenty more likes, comments, views on stuff
I post online. But I'm not about, I'm not about
wanting to go viral. I'm about wanting to be the most
useful person to follow. Going back to the mission
statement. Yeah, no.
And, and he's, I, I, I kind of encourage something we did late
on in our business actually, but it was one of the most useful
things was finally honing down our kind of our vision and our
mission statement. And if you've got that mission
statement and, and the vision and you can use almost as your
North star and stick to it whenever you're making a
decision, then it's not always easy because as you say,
sometimes you just want that quick hit of dopamine and to, to
get a few extra likes. But you know, staying true to
yourself, I think will definitely sort you out.
What's, what's your thing mate? That you say, is it I I can
never remember the order, but business legal.
Yeah, if you're going to make, I always say if I've got a, a
member of the team in, no one's around to ask a question,
they've got to make a decision. It has to be immoral legal and
make business sense. It has to be in that order
because we can do plenty of stuff legally if it's morally
incorrect and morally you can do some stuff that's right.
But let's be, you know, it's got to be legal nowadays.
And I always say if it's morally right, legally right, it will
generally make business sense, if not in the short term, in the
long term. So yeah, that's a very quick
training manual for, for, for kind of the new members here.
So on, on 2 actual agency, it kind of loops us in a little
bit. They're talking about, you know,
where do you think we are as, as a professional?
Where is the state agency? Are are we going back to my
point, I suppose, about the social media site?
Are we improving or we're just talking a good game on online?
What are you seeing out there? There's a couple of different
ways to answers. If you actually from a very,
very blunt perspective, why does someone instruct an estate agent
to market their home? It's because they want to sell
it and move, right? That's the basics of it.
And I would, if you actually look back at the last 10 years
of data, it's not really changed, but around about 5055%
of properties actually go on to sell during the COVID boom, low
interest rate, stamp duty holiday, it went up to about 65,
maybe 70%. And that was with a, you know,
bull market wind win. So if you look at the last
decade, no, actually things haven't improved in that sense
now that we could have a conversation here around you.
But the trouble in this industry, ideally a profession,
is that when you've got home owners who can just say, yeah,
I'm not moving anymore, that's an issue.
But I do believe that if agents, you know, even simple things
like putting things on correct price points, having a
professional photography, having floor plans of actual
measurement square footage, those little things done could
take us from 55% as a nation to selling 60%, maybe 65% just by
making those small tweaks. But I see it every single day.
You'll see it every day. The people listening to this
will see it every day where properties come on poorly
marketed, bad pricing and you like what?
Like that's not improving things in the last 5-10 in 20 years.
But on the flip side, you know, there is definitely better
marketing than there was. When you look at some of the
stuff that's going out on social media, the video content that is
being produced, the various different communities,
masterminds out there, your dinner, there's definitely I
want to improve, but I think we're still a long way off
because, again, you said it earlier, like the echo chamber
we're in, right? I like when you speak to an
agent and they go, everyone's doing video and you go, OK,
within the echo chamber without 1%, we all know, yeah, they're
doing video. But go look at the 10 agents on
your High Street and just check are they doing video?
Are funny enough, they're not. Yeah.
Yeah, no, no, exactly. And I you know, in the agency
here, we we do that. You know, I was on Instagram
standard, another agent chumps has suddenly started doing video
and you're like, oh, no, they're now doing video.
But we've been doing it a long time.
And also there's about 80 of us here.
So just because one other's doing it, it doesn't, you know,
it's not the end of it's not the end of the world in terms of so
sticking with, with kind of agents and what they're doing
well and maybe what, what they're not due in terms of, you
know, because you obviously you went out there and you, you were
a value idea and you were like, where do you think agents are
losing the instruction? Do you think it's before drawing
or or after the actual appointment?
OK. So just to clarify the question.
So evaluation has been booked. So evaluation has been, has been
booked. Yeah.
In fact, let me just quickly go back to that because that's a
good point. Do you think agents are looking
for too many leads rather than a small amount of quality leads?
Yeah, I think we're obsessed in this industry and like, this is
the only industry I know. I'm sure it's the same in other
industries As for constantly looking for more leads.
But you've got a leaking bucket. Yeah, there was a key.
Like a key point for me was I was, I think in the early years
of running a branch was how can I get more vows?
How can I get more vows? And actually the whole leaking
bucket point there I went. Well, actually I've got a lot of
people who already know me in the CRM.
If I could just improve my conversion rate slightly, then
I'd make more money and the next year I'd concentrate more on
that. And funny enough, I did the
same, if not less valuations and made more money.
Yeah, because you're converting more business.
And I think a lot of, particularly my home search days
as well, speak to businesses. They're like, yeah, I want more
leads. But, and it's like, OK, before
we start talking about lead generation and outbound
activity, like paying money on social media or sending out
letters, how long you've been established for?
How many people have you sold houses to?
How many people have you got in your CRM?
When was the last time you spoke to them?
And usually the answer is we haven't.
So we'll maybe start with the free stuff, which is speaking to
people who already like know, like and trust you like the
crazy start of 85% of buyers don't sell through this stage
and they bought through. You know, I is is mad and I
think I used to win a lot of business.
My thing was a lot of people within the business were X
countrywide and it felt like that whole sell ice to the
Eskimos. They're being in the training
manual. This is what to say blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah. And I never have seen myself as
a a natural born salesman. So it's like I need to have a
different angle. So I used a lot of data in the
living room in in the right sort of time and place, but my follow
up was unfucking believable. Like it it could be.
For example, let's say me and you go in to see a seller and
you blow them away on the day and I'm like average.
They're like, yeah, I mean, good guy, but my God, map was like a
legend. But the kind of natural salesman
doesn't follow up, whereas I just followed up like the CRM
said, ring Mr. Jones on the 1st of every month, I'd be ringing
you on the 1st of every month, just relentlessly consistent on
that. And I think digress slightly,
but let's say that you and I both go in to see Mr. Jones and
value his home. And we're both from Charles
David Casson. So we've both got the same brand
behind us. We've both got the same
marketing clash for etcetera, etcetera.
We could both come out with a different asking price and a
different fee. And I think that's a key message
as agents in the like how important the person in the
living room is because they'll people will blame our, I don't
have the right brand behind me, don't have the best marketing.
Duh, duh, duh. I think it might have been Ian
White on my podcast where he said that he had a really great
branch and he had a failing branch and the failing branch
said you can't get those sorts of fees in our area.
So he just switched the people around and then all of a sudden
the people from a good branch went to the failing branch and
the fees went up. So that's just not a market
issue. It's it's the people most of the
time. We had it.
And Michael Graham, where I was, the Northampton office I think
opened up the day Northern Rock happened when everyone's queuing
outside and it just haemorrhaged money for years.
And everyone would say he can't make money out of that office.
And then guy goes along there, absolutely tears it up, makes
money first year. Like funny that.
So it's, it's going back to what you said earlier, the mindset on
it. So that is, that's something
that I hear a lot and that you will will definitely hear a lot
is, oh, it won't work in my town and that doesn't work in my
market. But that's is that just a a
belief you categorically disagree with?
Yeah, that's just a look. You're going to have slightly
different markets. You know, selling a A2 bed
Victorian terrace in Newport Pagnell town centre is going to
be different to selling something in Mayfair, £20
million. But overvaluing and cheap fees.
Doesn't matter whether you're in Liverpool, Newcastle,
Birmingham, London. It happens everywhere.
And everywhere I go, agents say, yeah, but I have it worse where
I am. I'll tell you a funny story on
this. You know, I put a post out, I
don't know, a few years ago about overvaluing, and an agent
messaged me saying, yeah, it's absolutely rife in our area.
Can you look at the stats for me?
And I looked at the stats. They were the worst culprit.
And I said, do you know that you price reduce the most in your
area? Yeah, but I have to because
everyone else does it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you're like, you need like you need to have better self
self-awareness. I, I bought, I bumped into an
agent outside at a High Street shop in Chelmsford once and he
kind of knew, knew who I was of of course.
And when we were, we were having just a chat and he said to me,
he goes, he goes, I agree with everything you say about valuing
and stuff. And he goes but, and it was so
sad. He goes, integrity is all well
and good. He goes, but I've got figures to
hit. Yeah.
And he's kind of, and that kind of like actually hurt being
inside, you know, and, and I think that is, that's the issue
sometimes is, well, a lot of the time really it's that kind of
short sighted business more. And what I think is it, it can
work with them. I'm not saying all corporate is,
but it can work with the corporate because a lot of
corporates actually make the money from the mortgages, for
instance. So the houses are just a lead
magnet into getting the mortgages and never talk about
mortgages. But in reality, it's the life
insurance and the critical illness insurance where the big
money is. So there's a lead magnets there,
but I think a lot of us are brought up in the corporate
world and you go to run your own agency and that's how you've
been trained, but you don't have the mortgage ARM.
But but you're assuming, you know, just be that kind of it's
just how how you've been taught and it it takes a while to to
probably get out, get get that minds to have you.
That's how you've been brought up, I think.
Whether it's estate agency, politics, medicine,
unfortunately, the the metrics or targets to hit are not the
right things. Like if there was a I'm trying
to think how I how I say this in the medical world, if someone
like found a drug that cured something like cured cancer or
dementia or heart disease that actually go out of business, if
that if that makes sense. The same in the same in politics
is that it's actually well, how can we how can we get to the
next term? How can we get re elected?
Not how can we help the nation get better.
I think people might get into politics for the right reasons.
I want to help people get better.
But then once they're in there and they're in that environment.
So I I would have shed this numerous times before I did work
experience in the summer of O7IN Parliament and one of the MP
that I was shadowing was a shadow whip and his
responsibility to was to make sure that the party voted in
line with what the leader. OK, saying.
So you know, is there they're voting for or against same sex
marriage or whatever it might be.
And I was like, well, how do you do that?
He's like, I know everyone's got secrets.
I'm like, fucks, is that like at 16 years old?
I'm like, so that's like, that's how it's, I knew from that early
age, but that's how it's working now.
But it's, if someone disagrees with us, we'll they've probably
got a skeleton in their closet and we'll find it.
And you don't, you know, it's a bit, I'm going off of 1 now.
But you know that that video of Matt Hancock kissing his
secretary or whatever it was, you know, that didn't come out
by accident, did it? He, he said something we didn't
go in line with the rest of the party.
I went right, we've got that on him.
Let's release it so. In theory, the best way to
improve your conversion rate in the in the in the living room is
to stalk Mr. and Missus James's private life.
Find out something about them and.
The the the Tom Panos line that you said on my podcast, I'd
rather hurt you with the truth and comfort you of a lie.
And I think the agents who are winning are the ones who tell
the truth faster. And again, a line of use a lot
is telling you what you want to hear will help me win your
Business Today, Matt. And selfishly, that will help me
hit a target. But unselfishly, if I tell you
what you need to hear, it'll actually get you moved.
What would you rather I do today?
Yeah, Tell me what you need to hear.
OK. The other agents said it's 500
grand, and they do it for half a percent.
I'd. I'd love nothing more for you to
spend less money on your move and make more money.
I'd love that for you. But I just can't see the data
backing it up. And I have a duty of care to.
Try and get you moved as stress free as possible with the most
money in your back pocket. I just can't, I just can't sit.
And this is my advice. And if you want to go the other
agent, amazing. But you know, if I'm the right
fit for you, cool. I'd love to, you know, work
together with you and get you moved.
But I think. Sometimes you sorry, using that
kind of Chris Ross turban Roger, you know, like you only say
about 500 grams, like help me understand how they're going to
do that. You know, and, and and almost
let the the customer work out for themselves that they've been
fed a load of bullshit. Yeah, they, they want to feel
like they're making their own decisions.
And I think that's where door knocking and letters for on
market stuff is so wrong because what really an estate agent
does, and I would have been guilty of this back in the day,
you're basically questioning someone's intelligence, aren't
you, in their decision making where it's like you haven't
sold, you should have sold by now.
I think I saw Sam Cerrone put a post up on socials yesterday
about this where one of the letters was quite aggressive
where you should have sold. Like if I'm an owner reading
that who's got no like estate agency experience, I'm like you,
you're really calling me thick for going with an agent and not
selling. Like that's not the intention of
the letter. That's that's the way it comes
across. Yeah, no, and that's why, you
know, that's why I try and lose the word why out of my
vocabulary a lot of the time because I think why is a very
questioning word, you know, why are you doing that?
Whereas like what are the reasons and and and stuff like
that It would be would be better.
So yeah, so I I I feel like, you know, in in terms really you're
suggesting the follow up is probably the the sort of the
suites, but your database, you've got business in your
database. And obviously the, the follow up
is the is for Leeds. I think agents probably, and
correct me if I'm wrong, you know, the ones I speak to have
two main issues, which is the amount of leads they're getting
and fees they're getting. But I'm sure I've heard you say
a few times that it's not just, you know, we all want higher
fees, but agents actually have to earn the right to have those
higher fees. And you know, so I'm just
interested in your kind of point of view that is it a just a case
of right, just go out and charge a higher fee or do agents need
to be doing more to to actually be worth it?
Yeah. So I think a good Josh Fegan
line is if they don't see the difference, they won't pay the
difference. So you've got to you've got to
demonstrate the difference there.
And I talked about it a lot, but a right move survey of last year
of about 1000, sellers basically said if you were to pay, sorry,
if you were to choose an estate agent who paid a higher fee,
charged a higher fee, sorry, what 3 reasons would make you
choose them and pay a higher fee?
And the three things that came up were get me more money in my
back pocket, sell the property quicker and demonstrate that
they've got local market knowledge.
Those are the three things that came up.
So you've got to demonstrate that.
I think people think, IE just stick it on, right and wait for
the phone to ring. And yes, there will be a lot of
agents there. But you know, the marketing, the
viewing is obviously a big part of it, but we don't talk enough
about negotiation. Like it's not you're not an
order taker and passing. I'll they've offered three 75.
You're at 400. Tell them we'll do 390.
I'll have come to 380. Tell them we'll do 385.
OK, meet in the middle at 382500.
As Chris Fosser said, never split the difference.
And I, I saved my friend. What?
God, what even was it 54,000 lbs on a property the other month I
said this. So this is your start offer.
They're going to come back and do this, then you're going to do
this and they're going to. And he said to me, mate, it paid
out exactly like you said. And yeah, because all they're
doing is taking your offer, presenting it to someone, They
come back and you keep trying to meet in the middle until you get
there. But we weren't playing that game
using Chris for stuff like, you know, offering a random number.
So it's harder for them to come back and meet in the middle of
that sort of stuff. So they won't pay the
difference. If they don't see the
difference, Demonstrate the money that you're going to get
them in their back pocket. Also showing how much money you
negotiate from start offer to end offer and, and Stephen Brown
does the does the classic thing, which is so simple yet so
effective of would you have paid more, more money for your home?
And you know, I think he's had someone say before they would
have paid a few 100 grand more. That's such an easy exercise in
someone's living room because. Go on.
Sorry, I was. Just going to say, just because
of the endowment effect, when someone's buying a property,
they don't think it's worth what it is.
Once they take ownership, they immediately switch and think
it's worth more money. And they'll they'll happily tell
everyone, I've got a deal on that.
Would you have paid more money for the property, Mr. Smith?
Yes. How much more?
And then in 30 seconds you demonstrate to Mr. Smith, or if
you went and instructed that other agent who told you I'd do
it for half a percent, look how much money it cost the previous
seller when you bought it through them.
So I think it's like explaining those.
It's not rocket science, is it? It's helping, helping the
sellers understand. And then just on the subject,
little plug here. I've got my free tool, which is
the opening Gates fee comparison calculator.
I think last month it hit 1000 users.
Nice, well done. Thank you.
And I've got agents who mentioned me all the time going
conversion rates gone up, my average fee's gone up because
they can visually demonstrate to a home owner, look at how much
more money I get in your back pocket or look at how much money
another agent might cost you. But again, going back to your
original point, that only works if you if you get a better
price. Yeah.
And I think because there's
there's a lot of talk and you get the questions you get asked
is how do I justify my fee? And there'll be people running
training courses and they're justifying your fees.
But I guess really what I'm taking from that is if you're
doing everything you've just said there in the living room,
you don't actually have to justify anything.
Yeah, I think I love the Daniel Priestley language on this of
with or without UNG. And then you've got Tom Panos on
the other side talking about Commission breath.
Now you imagine, I don't know, you've got 1 valuation in your
diary this week and I've got 10 valuations.
Which one of us is going to have Commission breath and which
one's going to be with or without your energy?
I can, I can find it much easier to have with or without your
energy. So I'm like, but if you don't
believe in me and my fee, I've got nine other people.
I'm going to go chat to you and someone else will.
But if it's the only, what, only living room you're in, you're
going to like, shit. I need to, I need to cut the
fee. Yeah, yeah.
And that's a really useful point for I think as we sit now, the
date we're sitting and I'm a bit conscious that you're the king
of days. But from what I'm reading, kind
of like nationally, listings are, if not at an all time high,
they're incredibly high at the moment.
So there are there are plenty of listings.
So it's like agents do have the chance to walk away from more
stuff than they probably could have before.
Yeah, it's a very, very valid point.
I guess the personality type of who typically is an agent always
wants more. Like we, you know, you win that,
I don't know, you win your first have £1,000,000 listing on the
Wednesday and then you go and check right move first thing on
the Thursday and something you've been out to goes on with
someone else and you've completely forgotten that you've
got that £1,000,000 listing the day before.
I think it's just the way we're entwined.
And I had a really good podcast I did actually with Nigel Risner
and he spoke about having like a brag book.
So like when you get really nice feedback and you get reviews,
write it in a brag book and then just have that by your side.
So if you never, if you're ever having any self doubt, just read
some nice things about yourself. And he said on the podcast where
he's like, when's the best time to like prospect for new
business? It's like after you just had a
good result. But when the estate agents
usually prospect for new business when they don't have
any fucking business. How do I sound when I ring up?
I'm like, hi, Matt, how are you? I'm like, fuck, I need some
houses there. I was like, Matt, how you doing?
I've just been listed on five houses this week, activities
through the roof. What you saying?
Like the completely different energy there.
Most definitely and I do think that committing.
So if you commit something in writing and A, other people
believe it more if something is in writing, but B, you believe
it more. And reading back some soap here
at CDC, at the end of every week, we have an e-mail training
that goes around the whole company explaining how people
have lived to at least four of our six values that week.
And it's just a way for them to kind of cement what they've done
that week and and kind of the good, the good what they've
done. Because you can have a bit of a
shit a week, but if you get to a Friday and you actually write
something and the four things you've done well, I think it
just kind of lifts you up a little bit at the end.
I think on your point there as well, I'm a really big fan of
public accountability. I use it a lot myself.
So my substat journal that goes out every Monday, I think I've
released like 30 of them now since October when I released my
first one. It's said in it or in the post.
This will be in your inbox if you subscribe every Monday
without fail. OK, nice.
And now it could be the shittest one I do and it might be in your
inbox at 11:30 at night because I've been so busy.
Forgot to write it, whatever, but just showing people that
public accountability. So even before starting this
podcast, I put out a post and it basically said this week I'm
going to be sharing like examples of property data,
market trends, key insights that you can be using for social
media purposes to demonstrate you are the Oracle of your local
market, whatever. So I've put that post out saying
I am going to be sharing these things this week.
So I'm now like, fuck, I now need to share these.
Otherwise hang on a minute and they'll know if they're
listening. I won't call them out, but I
said on my podcast a while ago, maybe in a post, you never see
me pitching for business anywhere.
Never ever be like, I need more clients or I've got a special
offer on this month. And this person said they scroll
through like my LinkedIn and went back like a year and
they're like, you actually are pitching for it.
And I was like, screenshot it, send it to me.
And I basically all it was was PS comment below and I'll I'll
send you something. And then he assumed that was me
trying to sell something. It's like no, no, genuinely
something of free value, expect nothing in return.
And I think we are too transactional in estate agency,
but we're always wanting something as an immediate return
there that I actually just picked up a new client off my
substat journal. That's not why I started it.
I just wanted to get my thoughts down on paper release something
like an e-mail. You know, I'm big fan as as a
year of people like James Clear and his newsletter.
And I was like, I'm going to like try and do my shitty
version of that kind of thing for estate agents.
I kept thinking about it for ages.
And then they ended up I bit the bullet and did it.
But you know, it could have been easy to quit after 2345.
And I'm going, this is a bit shit.
No one's messaged me saying this is amazing or Oh my God, I want
to work with you. But then the 30th one goes out
and someone's like, yeah, I want to work.
With you, yeah, but it goes back to the start of the podcast.
It's consistency, right? You know, so you know, you've
got 300 episodes and it will have given you benefits.
You've got 30 sub stacks and suddenly something's,
something's coming. So you know that could be phone
for agents if you want to translate that, that can be
phone calls, it can be direct mail, it can be social media
posts that you, if you consistently do anything, the
results will come at some point. Yeah.
And it's having that consistency.
You don't want to over complicate things and go to over
the top, But being on multiple channels, Daniel Priestly talks
all the time about 711 four rule.
And it's like if you're posting something on Facebook, well,
that's one audience. Post something similar on
LinkedIn, post it on Instagram. So if like if I look now and you
don't have to do it all at once. So don't let optimal get in the
way of beneficial. So if I just quickly run through
this, I got fed up of cold calling the state agents because
it's not fun. So then you read Daniel Prezi's
stuff and it's like try and be a key person of influence.
OK, well, we're a forward thinking, open minded estate
agents hanging out. They're in the Facebook groups.
Chris Watkins, Perry Power, JP, Matt Giggs.
We'll have these Facebook groups.
Well, if they're in those Facebook groups, they must align
with what those people are saying.
I'm going to join those Facebook groups.
I'll start liking, commenting from requesting.
Great, OK, now I'll start posting in those groups.
Then it went to, OK, I'm going to start my own group.
So rather than renting an audience, you own an audience
and it's like, right, start a podcast.
Then there's the LinkedIn newsletter, but I do.
Then you've got obviously Facebook, Instagram, video
content, Substack, journal, like all these different things.
And I love the same from Josh Fegan.
Prospecting works best when it feels like a service.
And at no point have I in the last three years cold DM someone
going Hey Matt, do you want me to open the gates to more
listings? Sure.
You just put put out this valuable content, expect nothing
in return and and then yeah, if you stay in the game long enough
and be consistent, you'll you'll out compete the others.
I do genuinely, genuinely love that listen.
I'm just conscious of of time and I just want to make sure I
get a couple of quest questions in.
I've taken this seriously and I have I've done a little bit of
but we're on 300 episodes of podcasts.
I haven't really discussed the podcast.
I'll just a couple of quick ones making and I don't want to get
into, you know, who's your favorite guest and all that and
you know, get all embarrassed when you keep talking about me
again. But what who out of all the
guests, who do you think probably gave the most practical
advice? Or if that's was there someone
that said something that you went and implemented in your
business? OK.
So it's two questions, 2 answers there.
I think Sam Hunter has been on the podcast three times and I'm
pretty sure it's the second appearance.
I mean, just anytime you speak to Sam, he's full of practical
advice. You know his thing back in the
day speaks to 20 people and speaks to 20 people a day in
life will take care of itself. Yeah, I still use it in my
business here. And it's so true.
So Sam is the GOAT for practical advice.
I think it was his second appearance.
The first one was probably my second episode where I was still
really shit interviewing. So not that one.
And I'm pretty sure his third appearance would have been
interviewing me as one of these kind of like specials, but I
like to do with with sort of people who are close to me.
And then the other question you asked in terms of implementing
something is probably loads because I, you know, I love to
learn, but I'm an implementer as well.
Like, but the thing that comes to mind, and I said this to Phil
and Jones at Keller Williams Mega Camp.
I went up to him there to say, you're probably not going to
Remember Me, are you? It's like I'm, you know, it's
like you must meet thousands of people.
You might looked at me and he's like, did the podcast together.
I I opened in the gates. I was like Simon.
He's like Simon, yes, how are you doing?
Like, how's the podcast, whatever.
And I said at the end of our conversation, I said to Phil,
what's one piece of advice you can give me?
And he said really like what you're doing in terms of
content. You need to be producing more
video in a studio environment. You know, what did I do since
then? Yeah, yeah.
I've. Gone and recorded hundreds of
videos and I'm in a studio on Friday recording more content
like, well, if, if one of the leading lights of you know of
and someone I look up to is saying that I'll be stupid not
to implement what they've told me to do.
So I I enjoyed saying to him, Phil, I've I've invested heavily
in doing loads of video content and it's working really well.
But I think the thing on the video content as well very
quickly and you've obviously done lots of video content
yourself over the years is I think some people, whether it's
agents or prop tech are just going to assume if I start
putting out this video content, the leads are going to be like
flooding in. It's like, no, that's not that's
not the point of it. Like I've had some let's say
cold leads once or twice be really like warmed up where
they'll message me out the blue and they were like, oh, I've
just I've been watching video content loving it.
I'm like, oh, we haven't, I haven't spoken for a couple of
years. But that video, that video
content that they've consistently seen has reignited
that conversation. It goes back to what I said a
few minutes ago, video content across socials, the Sub Stack
Journal, the podcast, having these various different
channels. And I think the this language is
used by many, but I, you know, Alex Thomas is a good example.
But we're all in the media Business Today, aren't we?
Yeah, yeah. This thing happens.
We're in a state agency. Like you've got to create loads
of media and then there's usually a product or service
behind that media channel and that goes into the best known
beats best. But I think the agents who are
succeeding, the ones who are very, very good estate agents to
start with, they got the fundamental spot on.
That's the hard part. The easier part is the the
media, I would say. But lots of agents, you know,
they're doing great on media, but and then behind the scenes,
you know, they, they, they don't, yeah, they're, they're
not giving up in the living room, basically.
Yeah, no, 100%. Which guest surprised you the
most? Which guest surprised?
Did you have any like preconceived ideas about how
someone was going to be? And it was.
I, I would say that where my mind goes from that is Matt
Steinwayed. I would say like he's looked
upon as one of the best estate agents in Australia, if not
potentially the world. And I, you know, you think, you
know, he's probably going to be rushing me off the zoom like,
and you know, who's who's, who's this guy?
But he was so thoughtful, respectful with with time.
And I don't think we really talked agency much, but his his
passion was so infectious. But I think actually over it's
Matt Steinway, Josh Vegan, Tom Panos.
You know, people have followed for a dozen years, looked up to
and I'm like, I've read all your content.
I've listened to your content. There's there can't possibly be
anything you can do or say, but it's going to blow me away
because I've heard it all before.
Yeah. That's the power of human being
on a one-on-one conversation. But then also in person, how
powerful that is to like meeting Tom and Josh last year they were
they exceeded my expectations in person.
And it sounds so cringy. You know they say never meet
your. Heroes, I was going to ask you
that, yeah. And, and they were brilliant.
The same with something that really blew me away was so I had
Damien Hughes from High Performance Podcasters episode
100 and I went to a book launch of his a few months ago, stayed
to the end, went to get my get my book signed and he went hello
Simon, how are you doing? I'm like, how the fuck do you
know who I am? He thought we were recording
episode together. It was episode 100.
How many are you up now? And I can't remember how many I
was at the time. And I think Jake Humphrey like
tried to make a joke and said, yeah, fuck off, Jake.
But that that was really that that was that was really nice.
See, I think a lot of people I've.
Spoken to her real high performance as well.
They tend to be like really good, nice people.
Yeah. And going back to your your
point in terms of does is it morally right legal business
sense? I think the the people doing
really well have got really good morals.
Nice. Which is, which is, which is
good to hear because a lot of the time you, you feel people
that have got heads have got there by cutting corners.
You know, that's the that's the cynical world we live in is
always I hope they've done must have done something to kind of
get there. And I guess there's two sides of
looking at that in the and I hate, I hate when I do this.
But it's I think it's a subconscious thing about the
right language where you see someone who's, I don't know, a
similar age to you or similar background or went to school
together, whatever. And you see them in a nicer car
or a nicer hat and you go, what the fuck do they do together?
Yeah, when I hear myself say that in my head, I'm like, don't
do what you do. I hate.
Why are you straight away going? They must have cut corners.
But to your point on the other side, you, I, I think I've got a
good gut for this where you can spot where people are cutting
quarters. I'm like, I think in six months
they'll get found out. Yeah.
And. And more often than not and
prove right, I'm like, oh, yeah, there we go again.
New venture or new job seeming to be on that, you know, Ferris
wheel, if that's right. But they get found out.
Yeah. Yeah.
OK. Right, I just there's one more
from me and then we have to do a tradition of of one more
question. So mate, genuinely though, you
might have to get me back for episode 400 and 500 because I
could honestly talk ask you these all day this.
Has been incredibly. Enjoyable.
So thank you for this. I will say that before we end
it, but the last one from me, and I don't think I could ask
you, I could interview you without asking about books
because ordinarily people see this, but you're, you know, if
they ever see when they when they record with you, you've got
books absolutely everywhere. If someone was starting out an
agency and I'm not necessarily talking about they'd have to
learn agency, I get that. But if someone was starting out
an agency and they had to read three books, what books would
you would you get them to read? Three books.
Christ. I've said three because it's
episode 300. Yeah, that's, that's good.
I think the first one. And again, compacts are boringly
consistent, so all the time. But James Clear Atomic Habits
because you've got to have the right habits and consistency
because you can be the best in the living room, you can get the
best fees. But if you're not consistently
showing up across all the different things we've been
talking about from social media, video content, prospecting, stay
in touch with those, whatever or, or it's all downstream from
there. So it kind of is irrelevant if
you don't get your habits right. So Atomic Habits is brilliant.
My voice is going to be so tough to choose these.
Atomic Habits is the first one. I'm going to say exactly what to
say for real Estate agents by Phil M Jones, because words are
so powerful. And when I started this podcast,
I used this line, I'm not sure if it's for you, but and it
worked brilliantly well to get guests.
And then I'm very proudly have 435 star Google reviews.
And that comes from asking a question from the book, which is
could you do me a small favour? So I know from my own experience
those things work. And then the third one.
Which was sorry, which was the line you text me asking me to do
this? Could you do me a small favour?
Yeah. Yeah.
And the answer to that, there's, there's, there's 2 answers, yes
or depends what it is. Well, there's a third answer
which is no, but they didn't get it.
No. And then the other bit is so
many I could choose, but I think I'm going to cheat and say it
needs to be either oversubscribed or keep us of
influence because they kind of intertwine from that group
briefly. But from my own experience, you
need to be known. You've got to put yourself out
there. You can't be a secret agent.
And that's just said 5 minutes ago, we're all in the media
business in 2026. So you've got to get yourself
known. So you're being invited to be in
the right rooms rather than having to keep chases again.
Perfect make great answers, really good answers.
Listen, I've I've got hundreds of questions, but we will head
towards your closing tradition where you like to ask people a
question from the Diary of Aceo. You've got your box to hand.
Yeah, I do, yeah. I assume so I'm going to trust
you to not to not cheat here and just pick a random a random card
out. OK, OK, Should I should I just
pick anywhere in there? Just anywhere there because the.
First one's a level 1 I think, which fits you right?
So let's have a let's. Go, let's make.
It juicy. That's a level 1 again, sorry
right. So before I turn it over, that's
it. Will Tottenham get relegated on
the final day of the season? Mate, do you know how bad an
evening I had last the recording this the day after the Spurs
lost to Chelsea and, you know, last game of the season, see if
we get relegated and I still showed up this morning and I,
you know, there was no need to mention that.
Sorry, it's just because Liverpool have had a bad season.
So the question I need to answer read.
It just read it. Was there a moment in your
career where you said to yourself, I've made it?
OK, It's I, I say this on this podcast where I'm like, I had a
universe as a, as a very much like a data logical person.
I still have this like maybe take off my mum.
She's very like spiritual person.
Find it funny. But that's kind of the question
when we're recording episode 300, a big milestone for me
where you said to yourself, you've made it.
There's there's so many different things, but I think
the thing that will never get taken away from me and you, you
were there to witness it is. But I can say I spoke on stage
at Wembley Stadium. Yeah, nice.
Like that that that was a huge moment for me.
I actually picked up a few clients off the back of that as
well. So yeah, that's the.
Photography, do you think? Yeah, maybe and also and also
the day after as well-being very, very dehydrated, let's
say, and then maybe having a few waters of you helped help with
that. So yeah, that I think that that
was a real, real big moment for me.
But again, at that, just to like for anyone listening, like when
it comes to let's say imposter syndrome, it's mad where I had
an amazing time, spoke on stage at Wembley, had a brilliant time
with you the next day and then a day later you go, is that it?
Is it? Is it ever going to get any
better than that? And then you and then you feel
like you're like back to 0. So for anyone listening who goes
through those times where you're feeling shit, I promise you even
the highest, but, and it's a trait of high performers, the
highest performers out there, you see in business, in sport,
people, you know, they will go through days and times where
they struggle themselves. And I'll add in a bonus in terms
of book recommendations. I wish I'd read The Chimp
Paradox a lot sooner than I did. OK.
Yeah, good job. Probably read that, I don't
know, almost 10 years ago, I, I wish I'd read that book.
So we all have that chimp on our on our shoulder.
So yeah, for anyone listening, you know, if it all looks like
sunshine and rainbows with with me doing what I'm doing, trust
me, it's not. And can I just quickly throw one
book in to that meeting because I, I wish everyone would read,
but stay in particular The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek,
which and the very long and short of is you do not win
anything, you know, so you didn't win business by being a
Wembley. That was your highlight.
But you've still got so much to go.
And that's the thing we have to realise.
No, you don't ever win business being a husband, boyfriend,
girlfriend, wife, father's mother.
You just aim to be better kind of the the next day.
And I think a lot of people when they set these goals and hit
them, you see it with athletes, they they win kind of medals and
then they feel like their purpose is gone.
So it's yeah, you're right here to go in there.
So listen, I'm going to let you close off your podcast.
I just want to say again, congratulations.
Thank you. And the two key things I've
learnt from this podcast, which I hope anyone listening has, is
consistency and implementation will equal success.
There's a lot of people that learn but don't earn.
But if if you do the right things consistently, but you
implement what you learn, you will have a very good career
similar to Mr. Simon Gates. Thank you Matt, and to sign off
now part of this all started by having others that believe in
you more than you believe in yourself.
And Matt sort of jokingly maybe part seriously said to me one
day, you should do something like like use your name in a in
a business or something. So opening the gates and I put
it in my LinkedIn bio again, action straight away rather than
just an idea. I put opening the gates to more
listings in my LinkedIn bio. And shortly after that someone
had messaged me on LinkedIn and saying talk to me about opening
the gates to more listings. This is in my home search days.
I was like, this is quite mad. So I owe a lot to Matt for that
and for being an amazing friend. It wouldn't be a Matt Bulldog
episode without me saying do go check out his a bimonthly estate
agency dinner that he does in London.
I know plenty of the people who attend it and the feedback is
amazing. So do go to it if you haven't
already. And that just leads me to say,
remember to like, review, subscribe, follow, share the
podcast. And thank you very much Mr. Matt
Baldock for doing an amazing job in interviewing me on episode
300. Thanks, I'm all done.