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Hello and welcome to Open the 
Gates to more listings for 

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Estate Agents with me, Simon 
Gates. 

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I'm delighted to be joined today
by Mr. Simon Ledbetter. 

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Simon, thank you very much for 
joining me. 

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Absolute pleasure again to be on
the best podcast in the 

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industry. 
Well, that's a clip right there.

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We'll get that out on the on the
social. 

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Thank you very much. 
So we've done parts one through 

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to four. 
So we've spoken about the 

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market, marketing, tech, salary,
people. 

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Part 5 is all about 
professionalism and the 

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consumer, correct? 
It is indeed, yes, absolutely. 

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So we've got lots to run through
and we've got to be on our best 

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behaviours today. 
I'm trying not to go off on a 

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tangent, which I'm already 
doing. 

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So page 15 to start with. 
For those playing on at home 

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membership of professional 
bodies, unsurprisingly property 

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mark massively leading at the 
front at 37%. 

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Is there any surprise in any of 
that or anything you you take 

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from it at all? 
No, I mean, I think again, no 

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surprises. 
I think that's a really good 

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spread of industry. 
I mean, it's not just poor 

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professional bodies. 
There's some networks in there 

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as well, but they do good things
for the industry as I thought 

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they're worth including. 
Yeah, it's good. 

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I think we are lucky to have an 
industry body that has so many 

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roots into government and 
actually produces so much data. 

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I just wish more of the industry
was part of it. 

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OK, is and there's a, it's quite
straightforward really that 

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being part of it, they 
essentially to put their hand up

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and put themselves forward to 
want to be part of it, right? 

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Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, 
there's a great book by Tim 

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Ferriss called The Four Hour 
Workweek, quite popular about 10

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years ago, I think it was. 
But in there, what he does talk 

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about is if you have one in your
industry, join it. 

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If you want to be an expert, 
join your industry body because 

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there'll be so much information 
coming out of the industry body,

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you know, yes, of course, the 
qualifications are important. 

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We'll talk about that later. 
But just the connections that 

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you'll make and the information 
you'll get out of your body 

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allows you to speak with more 
authority about what's going on.

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But also you tend to find this 
is true of marketers, this is 

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true of any profession is you 
can't really call yourself a 

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professional unless you're part 
of a professional body. 

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Which is why I think we have 
this strange thing of I always 

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refer to it as the industry 
rather than profession, if that 

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makes sense. 
Yeah, that's true. 

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I suppose that's fair. 
That's fair. 

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The property industry is an 
industry. 

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Marketing isn't an industry 
because it crosses in, because 

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it crosses industries. 
I like to see it as a 

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profession, but I think estate 
agents have various issues with 

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trust for the industry, 
perception of how estate agents 

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are perceived by the world. 
I think it's in your interest to

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be part of a professional body 
that then gives you letters and 

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gives you other benefits that 
just mean you are not just 

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someone who's just become an 
estate agent. 

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You've actually become 
qualified, you've actually 

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become recognised for you that 
you know stuff and I just think 

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it's part of raising the game of
our industry, especially as 

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we'll see later when you compare
it internationally. 

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Yes, we are definitely coming on
to that. 

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So in terms of qualifications to
page ATI want to go back to a 

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previous conversation we had in 
Part 4 and I got into a state 

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agency at 16. 
So I was done with the education

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system. 
I wanted to go out and whatever 

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reason, being an estate agent, I
just wanted to go work, learn on

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the job and earn money. 
So I was like brilliant, low 

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barrier to entry, no 
qualifications needed, which is 

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fantastic. 
So there's some brilliant people

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coming into from that. 
But then at the same time, 

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because it's such a low barrier 
to entry, you can get some 

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shocking people at the same 
time. 

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So it's a double edged sword, 
isn't it? 

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Yeah, and you'll always get 
this. 

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Ah, but what about Harold 
Shipman? 

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And yeah, God, yeah. 
The thing is, there aren't 40% 

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of doctors are Harold Shipman, 
Of course there are rogue 

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operators in. 
But what it does do is it 

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creates some sort of, it creates
a minimum level of education 

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about what the industry is 
actually about and the rules 

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that apply to it. 
Because there is this thing 

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called the law that touches the 
industry, requires certainly 

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lettings, but it does a state 
agency too. 

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There are rules, there are law, 
there's ombudsman, there are 

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guidelines, there's best 
practice. 

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You want to learn some of that 
rather than just do your job 

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because you want to be better 
than the rest. 

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And that's how you're going to 
win business. 

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So having these qualifications, 
having this professional body, 

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of course there are qualified 
people who will scrub up, There 

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are qualified people who will be
dishonest, but the likelihood is

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they're less likely to be there 
than in the population as a 

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whole. 
Yeah. 

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And you know, I just, I just 
think the industry will benefit 

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from professionalising. 
Yeah. 

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Because at the end of the day, 
you know, and there's an old 

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line and we all set ourselves, 
it's people's most expensive 

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asset. 
Don't we want people to be 

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regulated, qualified and part of
a professional body to do it? 

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Surely that should be a minimum 
requirement we should expect 

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when someone's got literally 
got, you know, Clay Yates talks 

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about this. 
You literally give them the keys

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to your house. 
So, so on your point that so, 

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and I've used this before and I 
will use it many times in the 

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future. 
And this maybe says more about 

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my choice of friends than 
anything else. 

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But when you think over the 
years I've been in thousands of 

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homes where people have given me
the keys and alarm code within 

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30 minutes of me to me to 
Claire's point, yeah, would I 

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trust my best mate with my alarm
code and my house keys? 

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I'm not sure I would. 
And I've known in my home, so 

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like. 
No, no, I mean so very good 

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friends of mine. 
I wouldn't cross my mind to give

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them keys, alarm codes, tell me 
where all my most important 

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documents were, give them a 
layout of the house, show them 

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where all the precious bits are.
Just it's very strange coming 

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from outside the industry to 
understand that there isn't a 

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minimum requirement because it 
feels kind of like there should 

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be. 
And if you run an agency or 

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you're self-employed, why 
wouldn't you be able to want to 

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have your qualifications and 
your accreditations and your, 

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you know, your references 
visible to say, look, you'll get

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people coming into your house, 
you're going to give them your 

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keys and you're going to give 
them your security codes. 

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Don't you want to know a bit 
more about them? 

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Just say that and you've wiped 
out half your competitors, 

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Scarlet. 
That's effective. 

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I'm sure, so I think this might 
be I should really know this, 

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but and I can't remember what 
the letters are you're going to 

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know on this, but I'm pretty 
sure within the FIA or something

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of being what's the what's The 
thing is it DS checked? 

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What's this? 
What's? 

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Oh, DBS. 
DBS, that's it. 

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DBS being DBS checked and like 
if I was owning an estate agency

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tomorrow and I said like all of 
our team, our DVS get and as I 

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don't know a certificate for 
that or you have a, a lanyard or

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something, I don't know. 
But it's like, look, we, we take

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this very seriously because you 
can, I mean, it's been proven, 

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but you can't literally go into 
prison for dealing drugs, come 

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out and be an estate agent and 
you're like, well, that's, I 

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mean, a money laundering 
industry. 

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And then someone who's dealt 
drugs and then they can go and 

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crack on with that, OK? 
Good choice of words in terms of

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crack, but they literally walk 
amongst us. 

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You know, people who would fail 
the most essential checks to be 

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near children or handle 
expensive property, but we give 

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them the keys to our houses and 
they it's sort of, it's sort of 

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slightly blows your mind when 
you don't want to think about it

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too much because you're mad. 
But it is kind of a strangely 

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surreal situation. 
The, you know, the we have. 

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What was it here? 
Oh, yeah. 

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One in five estate agents don't 
believe they should have 

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qualifications. 
Now, we're going to do that 

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later, but imagine that you've 
asked a number is how many of 

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you have DBS checks on your 
staff, any background checks at 

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all to ensure they're not? 
You're not essentially putting a

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a threat to people's safety and 
security inside people's homes. 

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That has to be a minimum 
requirement, does it not? 

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Yes, it does. 
Why does anyone disagree with 

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that? 
I love a state agency. 

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And also just on the 
qualification points, so on page

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18, essentially whether you're 
an agent or a consumer 3/4, then

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qualifications should be 
required to be in the state. 

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Yes, you know, one in five don't
of agents and that kind of 

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worries me. 
Why don't they? 

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And I think you could. 
I do understand the fact you 

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reached, you know, you're in 
your 50s or your 60s, you've 

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done a career of this. 
You don't want to go on sit on 

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an exam. 
You can grandfather people in 

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it. 
It's got a sexist term. 

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You can grandfather people in 
you say based on your experience

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in the industry and the fact 
you've not been prosecuted for 

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anti money laundering or data 
protection or any of those 

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things. 
The fact you've got a clean bill

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of health and you've got some 
testimonials and you've run a 

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successful business. 
You can be grandfathered in and 

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you'll get the qualification as 
an automatic, but entering the 

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industry up until maybe mid 40s,
you've got to do the 

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qualifications. 
I'm afraid. 

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I know we make, you know people,
more mature people. 

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We do redo their driving test. 
So there's an argument to say 

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that just because you've been 
very good in your career for 30 

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years doing it, maybe what you 
know is out of date and possibly

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you should be kept up to date. 
You probably should be refreshed

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on what the latest rules are and
there should be something just 

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to check that you haven't just 
got. 

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Oh yeah, I know that. 
Do you actually do know that? 

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Yeah, I think on one of the 
episodes we were recorded 

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previously a while back, study 
around outdated knowledge and 

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you need to do 250 hours of 
studying every year to stay 

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relevant in in your field. 
And on you said we come onto it 

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pages like 21 through to 23, if 
I'm reading it correctly, 

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basically highlights that in the
other countries where 

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qualifications are required, 
they tend to charge higher fees.

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So is it not a win win? 
It stays? 

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It's kind of a strange 
correlation. 

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That is, you know, the more 
regulated and the more qualified

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and the more licensed agents are
Realtors, the more they earn. 

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And on and in the previous 
podcast we recorded for Part 4 

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when we spoke about wages, I'm 
pretty sure if you looked at the

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right side of it of the highest 
wages, it kind of goes on the 

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correlation of qualifications 
and. 

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It's funny that, isn't it? 
Yeah, The more qualified you 

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are, the more you earn. 
And it's a bit, so it's a bit 

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like then actually just from the
staging perspective. 

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Funny enough, those who invest 
more in the right people, the 

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right tech, the right training, 
the right marketing tend to be 

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more likely to sell a property 
in a quicker time, not fall 

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through and get a better price, 
rather than the agent who sticks

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it on right move a cheat fee, 
take shit photos themselves, and

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have a floor plan to take. 
Yeah, and you know, and training

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qualification. 
It doesn't need to be form as 

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exams. 
There's things like continuous 

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professional development, but it
needs to be serious continuous 

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professional development. 
If people want a master class in

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how to do the job. 
I mean, they're not going to 

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both smoke it, but just listen 
to what Simon Gates says. 

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Stop it. 
I mean, genuinely, I've learnt 

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tons from you about your side of
what the engineers, you know. 

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I'd like to think when it comes 
to marketing, I know my stuff. 

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But when it comes to genuinely 
the industry, selling houses, 

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doing the right thing, the tech 
around it, I lean massively on a

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network of people around me who 
know more and I learn from them.

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So I continuously professionally
develop my knowledge because I 

226
00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:58,640
want to talk to the industry I 
need to talk to with some 

227
00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,600
authority. 
Isn't that true of all people? 

228
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,440
Yeah. 
And don't you want your staff to

229
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,920
be qualified? 
And don't you want them to earn 

230
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,600
more and understand, fortunately
fundamentally, how you can earn 

231
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,880
more in an unregulated 
environment? 

232
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,960
Yeah, agree. 
So page 31, and I love talking 

233
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,920
about this all the time, so I'm 
going to have a bit of a geek 

234
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,880
out on this. 
So the 2025 Veracity Index, I 

235
00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:31,240
think the Rasti index has been 
going since 1983, and estate 

236
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,640
agents first entered it about a 
dozen years ago. 

237
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,920
I think it was actually, yeah, a
dozen years ago now. 

238
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,000
So for anyone who's not familiar
with the Rasti Index, basically 

239
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,960
members of the public read a 
list of different types of 

240
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,880
people and for each they want to
know if you generally trust them

241
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,680
to tell the truth or not. 
Now, Simon, you won't see this 

242
00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:57,400
on your screen, but I've got the
Veracity index measure for 

243
00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,280
estate agents from when they 
first went. 

244
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,440
Oh yeah, I love that chart which
tracks over time again, nicely. 

245
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,080
About that is, if you want to 
know more about it, Google Ipsos

246
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,400
Mario Veracity Index and all the
data is available for free. 

247
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:10,320
You know, if you wanted to pause
this now and go and look for 

248
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,480
that data, it's all available 
online. 

249
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,840
So since 2014 basically across 
that dozen year period, it's 

250
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,720
averaged 29% and it currently 
stands at 32%. 

251
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,760
So it's really always around one
in three, let's say. 

252
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:29,200
So one in three members of the 
public trust an estate agent. 

253
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,520
To tell the truth, that's the 
that's the critical line, isn't?

254
00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,280
It sorry. 
So isn't it so isn't it funny? 

255
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,880
Actually I use this line a lot. 
Isn't it funny how we don't? 

256
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,000
As members of the public, we 
don't expect estate agents to 

257
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,280
tell the truth. 
The only time we expect that 

258
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,280
they're telling the truth is 
when they say our house is worth

259
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:48,640
more money than what it actually
is. 

260
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,320
Yeah, yes. 
We don't trust them to tell the 

261
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,480
truth, but we give them our 
keys. 

262
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,680
Yeah. 
It's a strange kind of world we 

263
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,000
live in. 
But you're absolutely right is, 

264
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,680
you know, people don't expect, 
but the agent who flatters you 

265
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,600
on an overvaluation, you trust 
them immediately. 

266
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,280
I mean, we are, again, you know,
monkeys in shoes. 

267
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:13,480
You know, we're looking for the 
confirmation bias that tells us 

268
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:22,360
what we want to hear. 
And it's just in that 

269
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,760
environment of low trust, you 
want to be qualified. 

270
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,520
You want to have letters after 
your name to link back to the 

271
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,440
previous point, in an industry 
where it's low trust, you kind 

272
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,800
of want to maximise the things 
that give you some sort of 

273
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,760
credentials and trustworthiness.
And as you said at the charts we

274
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,520
talked about in the last report,
we talked about Part 4, this is 

275
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,680
a direct correlation between 
amount of qualifications you 

276
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,240
need and how much you earn. 
In our industry, there's amounts

277
00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,320
of the correlation between how 
regulated stuff and how much it 

278
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,120
earns. 
It's like, how many data points 

279
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,640
do we need to know to actually 
work out how you earn more money

280
00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:55,760
in an industry? 
Yeah. 

281
00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,000
And then on to page 32. 
And I think this is, I don't 

282
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,560
know, I think it's each, well 
each year you've done this. 

283
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,360
But again, if I read it 
correctly, those that have a 

284
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,480
more recent interaction with an 
estate agent actually do tend to

285
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:12,800
trust them. 
Is it? 

286
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,400
Is that where maybe what I'm 
trying to say here, still 

287
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:22,640
struggling with that 1980s 
stereotype of estate agent where

288
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,960
second hand car salesman, double
glazing salesman, where your 

289
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,040
parents or grandparents tell you
don't trust estate agents. 

290
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,120
So you've got that perception, 
but then when you deal with 

291
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,080
them, you go, actually you're 
right. 

292
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:39,640
Yeah, you know, only I think 1/3
of people in the industry from 

293
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:44,280
part 4 of 2025 have had a 
problem with the process of 

294
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:45,880
buying house and had someone to 
blame. 

295
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,040
So that's kind of the research 
we did in terms of who do you 

296
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:49,600
blame for things going wrong in 
the property. 

297
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,240
Only 1/3 of people actually had 
something right. 

298
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,440
So more George people actually 
they sell the house. 

299
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,680
You know, Christopher Walken 
does this date on how many 

300
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,240
houses sell within 4 weeks. 
And there's lots of really good 

301
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,160
stuff and then there's a long 
tail of stuff that drags on 

302
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,000
forever. 
I used to get the Ipsos when I 

303
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,319
like you, I'm I geek out on it. 
I I download the full tables and

304
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:07,640
I'm into every single nuance, 
every level. 

305
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:10,720
But it kind of bothered me 
because it's like this doesn't 

306
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,599
reflect my reality of my lived 
experience of dealing with 

307
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:16,520
estate agents or the people I 
work with hands me kicking off 

308
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,960
the research said not just how 
do you feel about estate agents.

309
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:23,920
How do you feel about the estate
agent or letting age you 

310
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,160
actually dealt with? 
That was the critical difference

311
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:28,359
to me. 
It's like, you know, no one 

312
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,000
likes politicians but like their
local MP if they've written a 

313
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:32,920
letter to them and been helped 
out by them. 

314
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,520
Yeah, yeah. 
Almost regardless of party 

315
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,280
transcends party. 
Sometimes, you know, you have a 

316
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,640
Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem, 
Green, Reform, whatever MP. 

317
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,840
But when it comes down to a 
constituency issue, if you write

318
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,880
to your MP, almost all of them 
are really good people to deal 

319
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:50,760
with because they'll often be 
able to make things happen and 

320
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,200
it changes people's view. 
So that direct interaction with 

321
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,280
things, it's like, you know, 
we're not good with strangers 

322
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,320
and estate agents feel like 
strangers generally to people. 

323
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,040
And there's the the constant 
running jokes and sketches about

324
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:02,320
estate agents and what they're 
like. 

325
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,400
But we would deal with it. 2/3, 
It was pretty much about because

326
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:11,080
every single group in terms of 
landlords, tenants and home 

327
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:15,880
movers, they all went, yeah, 2/3
Almost a reverse relationship. 

328
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,960
State agents in general is 1/3 
trust them. 

329
00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:22,120
Estate agents and Latin agents, 
I know 2/3 trust them. 

330
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,160
And even the numbers that I 
trusted them a lot completely, 

331
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:31,240
15 percent, 17% and 17%, it was 
kind of like people are going, 

332
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,560
yeah, I trust these people. 
I do trust them. 

333
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:40,080
Question on page first see the 
different colours remind me one 

334
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,440
is. 
So I've just noticed it's fallen

335
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:47,080
off the charts. 
We'll update that from memory in

336
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,280
order. 
It is home movers, landlords, 

337
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,520
tenants, right? 
OK, but that that yeah, well 

338
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,240
spotted that that's that's an 
error. 

339
00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:01,400
I like it when we do a life 
proofing 6000 people to find an 

340
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,320
error in the document. 
But the nice thing is it's 

341
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,040
available online and we can 
update it easily. 

342
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,320
So it will be an updated 
version. 

343
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,520
I will I'll I'll check that and 
get it fixed. 

344
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,600
So from a. 
Marketing point of view, let's 

345
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,360
say you know, we average 1.2 
million transactions typically 

346
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:20,800
across across the country. 
So call it 5% of people buy, 

347
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,200
sell a property each year a 
transaction takes place. 

348
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,240
So 95% of the public are not 
transacting in a year just on 

349
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,920
those figures. 
So how can an estate agent go 

350
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,800
from the veracity index of 
public don't trust us to tell 

351
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,640
the truth to that small 5% who 
have actually done business with

352
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,560
us expect us think we tell the 
truth. 

353
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:46,280
How can they like make that gap,
if you see what I mean about 95%

354
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,760
of people who who are not doing 
business with right now, how can

355
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:54,360
they kind of do the work so that
those future movers build that 

356
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:58,720
relationship and trust them? 
So don't say you're trustworthy.

357
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,360
Interesting. 
OK, because the only people who 

358
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:02,680
say. 
That trustworthy are the liars 

359
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:04,640
so I'm. 
Going to cut across you very 

360
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,160
quickly on that. 
When someone says if I'm being 

361
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,080
honest with you. 
So what that tells me is that 

362
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,400
everything you said before that 
statement is dishonest, Yes. 

363
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:19,280
It's like, not to be rude, but 
yeah, it's like, you're going to

364
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:20,440
be rude now, aren't you? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

365
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:21,480
OK, I get it. 
Right. 

366
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:25,400
No. 
So you can't tell people your 

367
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,840
morality. 
You only show people your 

368
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,440
morality. 
And the best people to share 

369
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,520
your morality are the people who
you've helped. 

370
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:39,000
So things like Verify Trusted 
and Net Promoter score and the 

371
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,480
esters and all those things that
are external verifications of 

372
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,880
your quality as a company and 
how you treat people, double 

373
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,520
down on them and share them 
widely. 

374
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,560
The best people are it's not me 
telling you I'm amazing. 

375
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,160
It's a person over there telling
you I'm amazing is the best 

376
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,960
possible thing. 
So you want to, with every 

377
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,200
single person you deal with, 
you're going to do a Net 

378
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,200
Promoter score. 
How likely would you be to 

379
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:04,480
recommend us? 
Why are you going to ask that 

380
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:05,920
question? 
Because if they're not going to 

381
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,960
recommend you, find out why and 
deal with it. 

382
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,320
If they are going to recommend 
you, ask them to recommend you. 

383
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,400
But get that recommendation 
turned into a testimonial and 

384
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:19,000
plaster it everywhere. 
This is what genuine customers 

385
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,320
think about us. 
Interview them, put them on 

386
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,640
video, put them on social media.
If they've had a great 

387
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,440
experience with you, You want to
basically create enough noise of

388
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,320
the positivity about you and the
scores and the awards. 

389
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:39,120
Now, it's interesting when you 
look at the data from Part 3 or 

390
00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:44,480
4 of 2025, that's naughty. 
I don't know a survey of how 

391
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,360
what the awareness of awards was
very low. 

392
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,360
You're not aware of industry 
awards, but having an award 

393
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:54,160
affected 1/3 of people's 
decision to use an agent. 

394
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,640
So they didn't know the names of
the awards, they didn't know 

395
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,800
about the esters or masters, 
because the only 5% of the 

396
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,440
population is in the industry at
any one point buying or selling.

397
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,960
And they'll, the award you've 
won is a minor part of their 

398
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,960
general review of things as a 
population as a whole. 

399
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,680
But in the process of, OK, I've 
got an award, would it make a 

400
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,640
difference in you choosing me? 
Yeah, 1/3 of people say, yeah, 

401
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,320
actually it would, knowing 
you've got an award. 

402
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,640
So you want as many external 
references of your qualities and

403
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,680
your values and your 
trustworthiness to be out there 

404
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,000
as well. 
Hey, guess what? 

405
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:37,840
Get a qualification DBDBSDBDBS 
checked you know have a higher 

406
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:43,040
standard on everything you know 
is it Perry power? 

407
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,960
He basically has I literally. 
Was just thinking that David 

408
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,720
Adams at Cavendish is a good 
example. 

409
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,520
And they literally like advanced
negotiation. 

410
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,800
Yeah, yeah, they do all. 
The courses, and they share the 

411
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,480
fact they've got all the courses
behind them. 

412
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,840
I mean, that's what you're 
trying to do, is to address the 

413
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,880
fact that if people don't know 
you, they won't trust you once 

414
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,120
they've dealt with you or they 
trust you once they trust you, 

415
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,640
get them to accelerate that 
trust to as many people as 

416
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,480
possible. 
Yeah, it's a simple thing, But 

417
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,840
you can't go out and say I'm 
incredibly trustworthy if 

418
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:12,880
you're. 
Going out and saying I'm 

419
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,880
incredibly trustworthy or I'm 
amazing, That's bragging. 

420
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,320
But if someone else doesn't owe 
you that social proof. 

421
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:25,560
Exactly, 100%. 
And consider your outfit, you 

422
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:30,040
know, genuinely, you know, I was
told a very, very long time is 

423
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:31,760
don't trust someone in a tie 
because they're trying to sell 

424
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:36,680
you something. 
And you've got to make a 

425
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,880
decision what's right for your 
brand and your business. 

426
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,200
But authenticity does come 
through. 

427
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:49,600
And if your suits a bit tight 
and you're kind of wearing a tie

428
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,280
and, you know, if you look a bit
shifty. 

429
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,640
And when I was on a stage in 
front of a big conference and 

430
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,760
they got two people from the 
audience, one of them had kind 

431
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,920
of like a little mustache and a 
little goatee beard. 

432
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,440
And one of them was clean 
shaven. 

433
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,280
And he said just by show of 
hands, who trusts the person 

434
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,720
with the goatee beard? 
Very few hands went up. 

435
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:10,560
Who trusts the person without 
the beard? 

436
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,000
Most of the hands went up. 
Now, I'm not saying your facial 

437
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,920
hair or anything should be part 
of the kind of necessary 

438
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,920
thinking of this, but just to 
consider that people make a 

439
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,600
decision on your trustworthiness
within a second of seeing you. 

440
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,920
And you've got to consider, is 
there anything about you that 

441
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:30,400
you do or look that conveys an 
element of shiftiness? 

442
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,440
And it's very hard to do this, 
but it's kind of you've got to 

443
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,600
go through the process of take 
your photograph and put it into 

444
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,840
a large language model and say, 
is there anything about my 

445
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,120
appearance that makes me look 
less trusty, trustworthy? 

446
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,480
Yeah, because it might go. 
Get a haircut. 

447
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,680
It might say no, you look fine. 
It might say just out of 

448
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,240
interest. 
I mean, I had a friend. 

449
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,480
These are real glasses. 
I'm blind as a bat. 

450
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,240
I had a friend who used to wear 
glasses which were basically 

451
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,760
staged glasses. 
They were clear glass because he

452
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,960
said it always makes people say 
it makes him not more 

453
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,400
intelligent. 
I'm not suggesting you trick 

454
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,840
people, but I'm suggesting you 
rather than trying to do things 

455
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,800
that would be inauthentic that 
make you more trustworthy. 

456
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,360
Don't do things that 
intrinsically make you less 

457
00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:18,360
trustworthy and then get a 
qualification. 

458
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,640
Right page this this this. 
Podcast is sponsored by Property

459
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:24,800
Mark. 
No it's not. 

460
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:30,880
I just bloody believe in it. 
Page 35 approximately how many 

461
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,560
estate or letting agencies in 
your local area have listings 

462
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,640
all for sale slash to let bourge
you've noticed in the past two 

463
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,480
weeks? 
Go on. 

464
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,640
Sorry, it's the fact that I 
can't remember any is 2222% and 

465
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:55,120
none is 10%. 1/3 of people. 
Page 35 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 35% of

466
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:58,720
people when asked to name an 
estate agent they've seen in the

467
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,120
last two weeks can't name a 
single one. 

468
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:05,720
I saw something on social media 
today so this will be a few 

469
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,720
weeks ago when this comes out. 
But someone had posted the 

470
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,120
actual take up of course of AI 
across the population of the 

471
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,160
world to all 8 1/2 billion 
people. 

472
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,560
And like there was 1000 dots or 
whatever and only one of those 

473
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,160
dots were people using AI 
agentically and coding wise. 

474
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,160
But if you on LinkedIn, for 
example, you think everyone was 

475
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,360
using agentic AI. 
Yeah. 

476
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,360
And it's this kind of everyone's
got Asia, everyone's got clawed 

477
00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:32,440
teams and everyone's doing this 
and everyone and it's like, 

478
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,880
yeah, everyone's saying this and
they're writing it from their 

479
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,200
bedroom. 
No one, very few people are 

480
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,480
doing it now. 
We think everyone knows every 

481
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,120
single estate agent. 
I'm staggered as it's like only 

482
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:44,560
90. 
Whatever percent of people have 

483
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,040
heard of right Move. 
Who hasn't heard of Right Move? 

484
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,800
But you know, there's a number 
of people who don't operate in 

485
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,040
the world that we operate in. 
And unless you're thinking of 

486
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,880
buying a selling house, you will
see 1000 for sale balls. 

487
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,000
You don't remember a single one.
The moment you're looking for a 

488
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,320
property, they'll start sticking
in your mind. 

489
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,120
But for most people, you know, 
and that's where most people on 

490
00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:08,800
their journey thinking of 
things, the ones that will stick

491
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,960
in the minds are the ones that 
are doing things other than just

492
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,880
for sale abroad. 
So they're out in the trade, 

493
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,200
they're out in communities, 
they're out doing things, 

494
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,360
they're doing sponsored events, 
they're present, they're putting

495
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:19,600
letters through people's doors, 
they're walking around. 

496
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:22,880
They are perceived by more 
people to be part of that 

497
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,960
community. 
And therefore recall when 

498
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,160
someone goes and pick three 
estate agents to value my house.

499
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,320
Yeah. 
Is that all marketing? 

500
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,480
The app. 
Remind me from previous reports 

501
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,120
it's the average person can name
three to four. 

502
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:40,000
It's between. 
It goes between 3:00 and 4:00. 

503
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,240
And if and and again, it's about
a dozen agents typically you're 

504
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,880
competing with, right? 
Yeah. 

505
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,920
Yeah, 1212 seems to be the long 
it's on this way. 

506
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,960
It doesn't vary that much, but I
might think it's kind of quite 

507
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:53,600
solid. 
When you ask people who compete,

508
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,680
they compete with it tends to 
come in at 12 every year. 

509
00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:58,720
So I've probably. 
Said this in one the previous 

510
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,840
podcast we've done but try and 
be I'll try and have some quick 

511
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,920
maths here. 
If the average agent is 

512
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:10,480
competing with 12 of our agents 
and then you've got 3 or 4 that 

513
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:19,040
people know, so there is a, call
it a. 20. 5% chance, give or 

514
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:26,080
take of you being known and say 
someone gets 3 agents out, so 

515
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,880
you're you're in that there. 
And then basically split it 

516
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,640
again, you've got a fair 33% 
chance of winning that business.

517
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,440
So in reality, if someone's 
thinking of selling, you've got 

518
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,920
about an 8% chance of winning 
that business as a rule, yes. 

519
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,120
Does that make sense? 
Yeah, look that. 

520
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,040
That's the maths. 
But then we look at the data 

521
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,200
from 20 EA from the end of 2004.
We've got every single post code

522
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:52,000
district in the unit, UK, United
Kingdom and the top 2 agents for

523
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,520
those, Every single post code 
district and the average was 

524
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,640
37%. 
So while they are the top 

525
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,560
between the top two, yeah. 
So while the average is 

526
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:05,200
absolutely everything else being
equal about 8%, the reality is 

527
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,520
there's some sucking an enormous
amount of attention and 

528
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,360
everyone's getting the long tail
drags. 

529
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,360
So what you want to try and do, 
especially if you're a smaller 

530
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,920
business or you're starting out,
is you've got to get your 

531
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,400
attention out there to as you 
need to be as loud as you 

532
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,360
possibly can. 
Be frequent, be familiar and be 

533
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,240
favoured by the audience by as 
many people as possible, because

534
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,240
otherwise you know your chance 
of getting across really. 

535
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:35,680
Really small, and I'm not sure 
if I've shared this on a podcast

536
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,760
before, but I think it will. 
I think it will be a very valid 

537
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,480
point for what you've just been 
talking about. 

538
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,600
A lot of agents I speak to and 
I'm like just, you've got to be 

539
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,280
relentless like with marketing 
and I don't want to piss people 

540
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,560
off. 
I'm like, I promise you, like 

541
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,720
they're not seeing most of your 
stuff. 

542
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,880
You're the only person who sees 
all the stuff you post. 

543
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:55,800
You need to do more than you 
think. 

544
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,920
And to give you an example on 
this, I was at an event a few a 

545
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:03,000
few months ago and someone came 
up to me and was like, Oh my 

546
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,520
God, it's Simon Gates. 
I listened to your podcast. 

547
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:06,680
I can't believe I meet you in 
person. 

548
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,360
Can I have a photo? 
I'm like, I've made it. 

549
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,200
Someone was asked for my photo 
of a podcast. 

550
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,680
It's really cool. 30 seconds 
later someone said to me, are 

551
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,200
you an estate agent? 
Are you looking at joining Exp? 

552
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,760
And I was like, OK, that shows 
you that you feel like in one 

553
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,600
moment you're doing so much 
marketing that someone's asked 

554
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,480
for a photo with you. 
I can't believe they're meeting 

555
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:27,920
you. 
And if someone doesn't have a 

556
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,000
Scooby who you are and is trying
to recruit you. 

557
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,320
Yeah. 
Oh, yeah, absolutely. 

558
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,840
You know, random strangers will 
know the few people out there 

559
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,920
who do a lot of publicity and a 
lot of marketing, a lot of 

560
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,560
content. 
But they'll still be a. 

561
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,240
You've just got to move beyond 
the. 

562
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,840
You've got to move yourself into
the three or four people that 

563
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,160
the majority, the enough of a 
group of people know about who 

564
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,800
about to do something is that. 
Essentially be a loud voice in a

565
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,480
small room, Yes. 
Exactly. 

566
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,040
You know, you only really need 
to know that 510, twelve, 15% of

567
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,440
people are actually going to 
move in the next 2-3 years. 

568
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,840
That's who you need to know. 
But because you don't know who 

569
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,560
they're going to be, they'll 
self select. 

570
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,960
You know, the classic with 
social media is the 1% of people

571
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:18,560
create, 9% are kind of like 
engaged and then 90% lurk, 

572
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,440
they're just watching. 
That's true. 

573
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,520
This way is you got to be part 
of that 1% of creating content 

574
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,320
and being present so that when 
the 9% are going kind of be 

575
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,320
interested what they think they 
think of you, not your 

576
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,520
competitors 100%. 
And the reason? 

577
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,320
Why this industry is 
particularly and I remember 

578
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,440
doing a presentation this at the
Knight Frank because I used to 

579
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:43,840
work in investment banking and 
pensions trying to make that you

580
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,680
could annoy people talking about
pensions because it's boring as 

581
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,120
hell. 
You can't make people bored 

582
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:57,800
about property. 
You can't you know 20 million 

583
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,120
people are are users of right 
move. 

584
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,400
How many transactions are there?
1.2 million. 

585
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,000
We love probably after the 
weather, sorry, Christopher 

586
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,280
Walken stealing your line, but 
after the weather property is 

587
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,400
number two of our interests. 
So again, just as we've said in 

588
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,280
Part 4, AI slightly, this is 
just slightly insulated from AI,

589
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,240
you're insulated from Borden. 
In this. 

590
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,440
Industry because people love 
property. 

591
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,280
Just on a couple of the numbers 
there as well on the portals, so

592
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,640
Zoopla just hit the 6,000,000 
mark in terms of number of home 

593
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,280
owners tracking their home. 
So that's over 6 million people.

594
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,680
Yeah, as you said, 1.2 million 
transactions. 

595
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,760
And then I don't know what the 
number will be now because this 

596
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,640
is a few years ago, but right 
mover producer stats, whilst 

597
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,880
obviously there's lots and lots 
of traffic on the website, over 

598
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,480
5 million people had alerts set 
up. 

599
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,280
Now I appreciate that could be 
people who've moved a few years 

600
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,080
ago and they're happy in their 
home. 

601
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:55,960
They're still getting alerts in 
their e-mail, they're still 

602
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:57,880
clicking on it. 
And so we're 5 million people 

603
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,000
getting notifications from, 
right? 

604
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:05,280
Like, it's insane. 
Location Location Homes under a 

605
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:10,040
hammer, bricks and mortar. 
All the property listings. 10's 

606
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,080
and 10s of millions of visits to
the portals. 

607
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,600
We are interested in property 
whether we are moving or not. 

608
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:23,840
This is an advantage to this 
industry and it's just to think 

609
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,240
you will bore people about this 
industry is delusional. 

610
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,320
Yeah, if you're talking. 
About property, people go, oh, 

611
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:33,760
people are suddenly interested. 
If you say you work in the 

612
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,600
property industry, use that, 
leverage that, don't abuse it. 

613
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:41,400
Obviously don't be boring about 
it, but genuinely, if you create

614
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,640
interesting content about what's
going on in the property market 

615
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,880
in your local area, people will 
wrap it up. 

616
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,480
I was going to say property. 
Market and then also local area.

617
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,640
So we've got the Newport Pagnell
chitchat group and someone will 

618
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,320
every so often take a picture of
a sunset and people are like, Oh

619
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,600
my God, I'm so happy to live in 
Newport Pagnell. 

620
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,680
We'll get thousands of lights. 
I'm like, that sunset literally 

621
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,480
is the same sunset from like 
outside the Newport Pagnell. 

622
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,040
But it just so happened someone 
took it who was in Newport 

623
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,560
Pagnell. 
Like it's mental, right? 

624
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:15,360
Page 37 How important would you 
consider the following services 

625
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,400
when choosing an agent? 
So interesting because obviously

626
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,800
there's various different 
surveys out there, whether it is

627
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,800
from Property Academy, whether 
it's right move doing it. 

628
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,760
And I don't know how like some 
of the surveys can maybe slant 

629
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,639
it or ask questions in a certain
way so that it's getting the 

630
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:36,360
answers they want. 
Because how many times do 

631
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,960
surveys come up and go see, no 
one's interested in the lowest 

632
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,880
fee. 
It's always down at the bottom, 

633
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:41,840
people not interested in the 
fee. 

634
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,920
Yet it came up quite high in 
this. 

635
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:48,840
And what tends to always come up
when I've seen previous FOIC 

636
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,560
agents is always seems to be #1 
or near the top. 

637
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,880
They want their property listed 
on multiple portals. 

638
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,600
Yeah. 
It's a hygiene factor. 

639
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,640
People would like to be seen on 
multiple portals. 10s of 

640
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,280
millions of them are visiting, 
you know, nearly half the 

641
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,080
popular adult populated in the 
UK is visiting portals in any 

642
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,840
given year. 
Everyone knows these portals. 

643
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:08,880
Yeah. 
And therefore, when they sell a 

644
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,680
property, they, they'll have 
found a property through a 

645
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,920
portal. 
Why would they not want their 

646
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,680
property on a portal? 
And if there's more than one 

647
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,320
portal, why would you not want 
them to be on all of them? 

648
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,400
Because you want to sell your 
house. 

649
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,920
So if you're. 
So if you're an estate agent 

650
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,480
listening to this, I don't know 
what the numbers are and if you 

651
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,160
know this, Simon, but if you are
an agent who is on Bright Move 

652
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,240
Zoopla and on the market, you 
should be shouting from the 

653
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:36,760
rooftops how you were on all 
three portals. 

654
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,600
Yeah, you should you know, you 
could, you can logically say I 

655
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,000
am with this portal because we 
believe this is the best portal 

656
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,720
to be on and it allows us to 
charge the most competitive 

657
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:47,320
rates because we're not paying 
for the fees. 

658
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,640
You you can justify the 
strategic decisions you made 

659
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,040
that are right for your 
business. 

660
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,520
But what the data tell us is 
what consumers Jenny would like 

661
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,400
you to say is you're on multiple
portals. 

662
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,320
So if you are leaning to that, 
so. 

663
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,880
So let's say I'm sticking my 
neck out here. 

664
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,520
I'm going to say from my time as
an agent when it came to portal 

665
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:17,200
leads and I I'd been on all 
three portals, 99% of leads came

666
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:23,640
from right move. 
So like like waste of time from 

667
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,800
an inquiry point of view being 
on the other two. 

668
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,120
From my experience, however, 
whether you get inquiries or 

669
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,720
not, the fact that you can say 
to a seller, we list on all 

670
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:35,960
three major property pools, you 
might not even get an inquiry 

671
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,520
from some of them, but they are 
like, oh, that's amazing. 

672
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:40,960
They're All in all of those 
because that's what they're 

673
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,040
looking for, yeah. 
Definitely. 

674
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,080
And everyone has different 
experience. 

675
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,440
I know different types of 
property in different locations 

676
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,040
have different experiences. 
Yeah, with different portals. 

677
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:52,760
They all serve their own 
purpose. 

678
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,080
You know, on the market came out
some of the higher aided 

679
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:56,960
agencies. 
I know Zoopa's particularly 

680
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,560
striving in lettings and London,
it was a few years ago, right. 

681
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,000
Moves generally across all of 
them. 

682
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,080
But the other thing as well is 
if we remember the whole 

683
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,680
principle of marketing is what's
it propinquity. 

684
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,280
The more someone sees your 
message, the more favourable 

685
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:11,240
they are, the more familiar they
are. 

686
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:14,360
It is if you want 3 portals, 
you've got three opportunities 

687
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,720
for people to see the property 
and there's a group of people 

688
00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:20,200
who will be going into all three
portals that's in one. 

689
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,360
Of the previous voice of the 
agents, yeah, there's a there's.

690
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,440
A it's called the portal verse 
and it's like the three overlaps

691
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,440
and there's a core in the middle
who are genuinely interested. 

692
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,800
Guess who that core in the 
middle is probably going to be? 

693
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,000
The people are moving house. 
Yeah, they people are going to 

694
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,080
buy a house. 
They're trying to go. 

695
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,920
I don't want to miss a house 
because I haven't looked at all 

696
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,280
the portals. 
They'll look at all the portals 

697
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,040
to go. 
So on a general rule of thumb, 

698
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,520
maybe someone's a Zoopla 
customer or an on the market 

699
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,480
customer or a Right Move 
customer and they're just 

700
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,400
looking through them. 
That's what they look when 

701
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,000
they're looking to buy a house. 
They're going everywhere. 

702
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,800
They're bringing in one Dome and
Jitty and my Porter and Right 

703
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,600
Move and Zoopla. 
They're doing all their 

704
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,200
research, possibly using an LM 
to do it, to actually kind of 

705
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,480
find the property they want 
because they don't want to miss 

706
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:03,960
the dream property that they 
have. 

707
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,600
So if you happen to be on all 
three portals and the person 

708
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,760
finds the house that you're 
selling on all three portals, 

709
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,600
that's three opportunities to 
see. 

710
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,880
Yeah, so. 
Ebbinghauser's forgetting curve,

711
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,040
propinquity and all the science 
we talked about in 30 years of 

712
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,800
marketing and you know I've 
talked about at length is you're

713
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:30,080
maximizing the chance of that 
property being bought at the 

714
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,560
best possible price at the best 
possible speed. 

715
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,720
And as we've said before 
multiple times, there is no 

716
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:38,480
property market. 
There's a market for property 

717
00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:41,480
you might get most of your leads
from right move, but what was if

718
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,080
the one person who's willing to 
pay the highest price and is a 

719
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,720
cash buyer happens to be on on 
the market? 

720
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,320
Yeah, very true. 
Right. 

721
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:58,640
Moving forward, page 43, how do 
you think the value of property 

722
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:02,080
in which you live would have 
changed 12 months from now? 

723
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:07,760
Why are we looking at home 
movers versus private landlords?

724
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,840
Why that split there? 
I'm intrigued because. 

725
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,840
It's just the two big markets in
terms of estate agency and 

726
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,080
lettings are the people who are 
actually putting their 

727
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,680
properties on the market. 
So you could include tenants 

728
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,440
there if you wanted, but it was 
just, I was, my initial thing 

729
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:24,880
is, you know, there aren't 
massive differences. 

730
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,080
There's a bit more difference. 
There's a bit of difference, but

731
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,080
it was just our home movers more
confident or less confident than

732
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,840
landlords, then not really the 
the majority of both groups are 

733
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:41,920
expecting to see higher prices 
and a small group of both groups

734
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,680
tend to see lower prices, 
slightly more people expecting 

735
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,200
no change or landlords. 
It was just an interesting 

736
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:48,280
point. 
Occasionally we'll do these bits

737
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,360
of survey to go like, are there 
massive differences between 

738
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,240
these groups? 
No, there isn't. 

739
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:57,400
There's some subtle changes 
there, but also it's just worth 

740
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,880
knowing when you're talking to a
landlord, they're expecting, no,

741
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,200
they're more likely to be 
expecting no change in a 

742
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,320
property price than a home 
mover. 

743
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:11,240
So bear that mind your 
conversation about asset values 

744
00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:14,120
and investments and all those 
kind of things is they're not 

745
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,880
necessarily seeing the capital 
realized in owning a property in

746
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,120
the same way that a home mover 
will. 

747
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,280
OK. 
And moving forward to page 45 S 

748
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,120
thinking about looking for a new
property. 

749
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:30,920
How do you tend to look? 
So landlords tend to well the 

750
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:35,720
data shows they're more likely 
to search offline or equally 

751
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:38,240
offline as they are online. 
Is that because I'm being 

752
00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:41,720
stereotypical here now? 
But landlords in this vision we 

753
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:45,520
have tend to be of an older? 
Yes, demographic. 

754
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,920
Yeah, there's a, there's a. 
There's a maturity demographic 

755
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,520
in there, absolutely. 
And they are, you know, a lot of

756
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,720
people who are either accidental
landlords who've inherited 

757
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:57,360
property later in life or they 
have reached a point in birthing

758
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,360
where they're accumulating A 
portfolio, blah, blah. 

759
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,080
They'll be older anyway and 
therefore they may have more 

760
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,720
traditional habits. 
The interesting thing is, you 

761
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:13,200
know, 51% of home movers are 
saying I just entirely online. 

762
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,320
I'm not looking anywhere else. 
Yeah. 

763
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:21,680
So that's kind of like it's the 
world has moved, it's done. 

764
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,120
So in terms of where the world 
has moved on to page 46, we're 

765
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,080
cooking on gas now. 
We're flying through you. 

766
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,600
You can tell we've got a time 
deadline to hit for everyone. 

767
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,120
How do you keep up to date with 
news and current events? 

768
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,520
So I'm going to merge these 
together for high movers and 

769
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:42,160
landlords. 
But the news and websites comes 

770
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,200
up high, unsurprisingly. 
But in terms of and like social 

771
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:52,080
media, but radio and TV, are 
radio and TV massively 

772
00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:56,000
underutilized by even smaller 
estate agents? 

773
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:57,520
Yeah. 
Absolutely. 

774
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:02,640
And especially in a world where 
there's local radio and regional

775
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,400
TV, you know, again, we know 
property is click bait. 

776
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,320
Everybody wants stuff that's 
interesting. 

777
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,800
You know, if you can get 
broadcast coverage, you will 

778
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,280
reach far, far more people than 
any other channel. 

779
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,400
It's it's a, it's, it's called 
broadcast for a reason. 

780
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:24,040
And it gives you broad reach and
credibility of being on the 

781
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,560
local BBC. 
Forget the word local. 

782
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:32,000
When you mention as met, as seen
on the BBC, as seen on ITV News,

783
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,160
as seen on whatever it is, is a 
huge credibility thing. 

784
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,840
Remember this point about trust,
this thing about credibility and

785
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,520
qualification we talked about 
last time, but also trust this 

786
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,640
time. 
TV really, really kind of is up 

787
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,960
there for the maximum reach and 
it has a huge amount of 

788
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,480
credibility. 
So don't neglect it. 

789
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,480
And the other advantage of TV is
you're not necessarily going to 

790
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,600
do a Sky ad smart advert, but if
you can get one piece of media 

791
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,240
coverage on TV talking about the
local property market, it'll be 

792
00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:04,520
worth thousands to you, 
literally thousands in terms of 

793
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,120
its reach. 
Did say radio and radio is much 

794
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:13,040
easier to get into than TV. 
So befriend your local when you 

795
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:14,800
they're often more fragmented 
than TV. 

796
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,640
You sound regional TV, you've 
got local radio and you know, 

797
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,760
hospital radio, student radio, 
all radio in fact. 

798
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:25,240
And there's a technology I know 
a guy I know he worked with 

799
00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:28,040
countrywide. 
He runs an organizing called 

800
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:33,360
Klaxon dot AI, which has found a
way to really break down to your

801
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,240
advertising to be the cheapest 
possible. 

802
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,280
So about 1200 kids, you could 
have a radio advert that's 

803
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,640
highly targeted at your audience
and your locality. 

804
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,760
And it's, that's a, so it's much
more for TV's expense to do 

805
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:50,680
advertising for, but PR is cheap
return investment wise, it's 

806
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,520
incredibly powerful. 
So send in each other and say, 

807
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,840
look, if you want someone to 
comment on what's going on in 

808
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,760
the property market, call me. 
I'll always pick up the phone. 

809
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,760
So imagine you're sitting on the
sofa, you're selling a house, 

810
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:03,960
you're getting someone to sell a
house with you. 

811
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,640
And the BBC calls you. 
You've got the journalist name 

812
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,840
in the phone number. 
And you say, I'm really sorry, I

813
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,720
want to take this call. 
It's actually the BBC. 

814
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:14,400
He'd like to talk to me about 
the property market. 

815
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:16,920
I guarantee when you leave the 
house, you've got the 

816
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:21,960
instruction because you've 
instantly proven that you are a 

817
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,560
genuine property expert and not 
just another anybody try and 

818
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,680
sell a house and. 
The the untrustworthy estate 

819
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,200
agent who obviously wouldn't 
listen to his podcast or do 

820
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:35,640
this, would save a friend's 
number as BBC journalists and 

821
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,840
get them to find them halfway 
through evaluation page. 

822
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,960
Possibly comments Simon. 
I can see the way. 

823
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:44,840
Your brain works, yeah. 
Absolutely. 

824
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,040
Page 47 think about something 
you might buy in the next two 

825
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:51,440
months. 
If you're an advertiser, where 

826
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:55,440
would you advertise have a 
chance of catching your 

827
00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:02,040
attention So again online, so 
social media etcetera, then TV 

828
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,760
adverts then sort of radio. 
So again, that kind of 

829
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,720
highlights my point there of 
yeah, and this is. 

830
00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:11,240
The thing is, brand is different
to sales activation. 

831
00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:13,160
So for those who have been on 30
years of marketing or whatever, 

832
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,520
brand is about just long term 
branding, building for the 

833
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:16,800
people who are not in the 
market. 

834
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,800
If you want to build your brand 
so people know about you, become

835
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,360
one of the three or four. 
The big things like obviously 

836
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,120
online because that's everywhere
now, but TV, radio, cinema, 

837
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,400
billboards, they're brand 
building exercises that make you

838
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,280
more present in people's lives. 
They're not the things that can 

839
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,920
be able to buy or instruct you, 
but the other people who get, 

840
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:40,160
you know, I've heard of 
Cornwell's estate agents because

841
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:41,960
they've seen you or they've 
heard about you somewhere. 

842
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,280
And it's just putting that 
message in the mind before they 

843
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,200
actually get ready to instruct. 
Because the next page, I think 

844
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:52,160
it is then switches to what 
actually gets people to buy. 

845
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:58,200
It is always e-mail, social 
direct mail, social media, 

846
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,080
direct mail. 
I mean, it is always those and. 

847
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,120
Again, going back to the kind 
of, I guess the age demographic 

848
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:08,440
thing of landlords, if you look 
at that, the average home mover 

849
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,880
is more likely to prefer a text 
to a landlord and a landlord is 

850
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,760
more likely to prefer face to 
face. 

851
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,960
That makes me look back to, or 
makes me think back to when I 

852
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,040
was an agent, when you just know
there's a certain landlord of a 

853
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,280
certain age who if you wanted 
to, if you wanted to chat about 

854
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,600
his property, he's coming to the
office. 

855
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,760
He's not finding it, He's not 
e-mail. 

856
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,160
He's, I, I will come in and have
a cup of tea or a cup of coffee 

857
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:34,600
and, and talk about it face to 
face. 

858
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,320
Absolutely. 
And you want to be talking to 

859
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:39,880
someone the way they want to be 
spoken to. 

860
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,480
If they say they'd rather talk 
by WhatsApp, don't call them. 

861
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,920
Yeah, but if they prefer to meet
you face to face, go and have a 

862
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:47,960
coffee with them. 
It's much more valuable to 

863
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,360
interact with someone the way 
they want to be interacted with.

864
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,800
And that's what this is really 
about it. 

865
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:56,040
It's a. 
Classic when you're younger and 

866
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,600
parents say to you treat others 
how you want to be treated. 

867
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,480
Yes, exactly. 
Exactly, Exactly. 

868
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,680
What's the golden rule doing to 
others that you have done to 

869
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:05,760
yourself? 
Yeah. 

870
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,720
Right, we're we're flying 
through these Page 51, which if 

871
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,440
any of the following brand 
communications have ever LED 

872
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,920
directly to a purchase, it's the
same. 

873
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,000
Again, it's brand I'd love to 
find. 

874
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:21,520
A piece of research says this is
wrong. 

875
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,760
I talk about the four writers of
the marketing apocalypse. 

876
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:25,880
PR, e-mail, social and direct 
mail. 

877
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,720
It's always from a genuine 
generating money for your 

878
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:33,200
business. 
It's e-mail, social media and 

879
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,240
direct mail. 
Add in PR and you've got your 

880
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:39,840
brand. 
So if you don't do those 4 

881
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,040
consistently, relentlessly, and 
I like the word you added now, 

882
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:47,200
occasionally patiently, you're 
missing a trick. 

883
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,720
You just want to keep doing the 
may not work instantly, but PR, 

884
00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:53,360
emails, social media and direct 
mail. 

885
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,720
They will drive results in the 
end to set enough marketing 

886
00:47:56,720 --> 00:47:58,840
budget to do them. 
So to give you a quick. 

887
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:03,360
Example on an E like I am a I'm 
a sucker for e-mail marketing. 

888
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,480
People say to me, how did you 
find out about this really 

889
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,840
intimate private event that only
50 people said I'm on an e-mail 

890
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,080
somewhere and I found it. 
So I'm a sucker for e-mail 

891
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,920
marketing. 
But at the same time I, I 

892
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,880
started a sub stack journal and 
I've released it every Monday I 

893
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:24,560
reckon for about 30 weeks now, 
which might sound like a lot 

894
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:26,840
might not sound like a lot to to
people. 

895
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:31,320
And people can read it online or
they can subscribe to it and I 

896
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:35,080
get their e-mail. 
Very Long story short, I think 

897
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,920
most people would start some SAT
journal and after one or two 

898
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,280
entries go, this is a bit shit. 
I've got nothing from it. 

899
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:45,160
I can categorically say I picked
up a new client who read my 

900
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:51,120
substat week in, week out and 
after about 2025 weeks of it, so

901
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,240
several months have gone. 
Yeah, I like this. 

902
00:48:53,240 --> 00:48:58,040
I'll sign up with you, yes. 100%
is Just because people don't 

903
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,000
respond immediately doesn't mean
they're not going to respond. 

904
00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:03,640
They're just not in that phase 
of buying the thing that you're 

905
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,320
doing. 
But if they keep opening it, 

906
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:06,800
what you're looking for is 
opening. 

907
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,880
Or do they keep engaging 
actively with something because 

908
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:15,040
it means they're consuming it 
and at some point they may go, 

909
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,000
you know what, that subscribe 
I'm reading with Simon Gates. 

910
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:19,960
He actually mentioned something 
like this a few issues ago. 

911
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:21,840
I could scroll back and try and 
find them. 

912
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,280
I could just give him a call 
100%. 

913
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,360
Yeah, absolutely. 
And that. 

914
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,760
This blows my mind, Simon. 
And I was, I was talking about 

915
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,520
it the other day as Christopher 
and I was talking about it is it

916
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,400
blows my mind that all this 
information is available. 

917
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:39,800
You talk about it, I talk about 
it. 

918
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:41,040
Christopher Watkin talks about 
it. 

919
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:42,840
Loads of brilliant people talk 
about it. 

920
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:48,440
Why doesn't everyone just do it?
Yeah. 

921
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:55,080
I mean, it's kind of obvious 
what you need to do to be a 

922
00:49:55,080 --> 00:50:00,840
successful agent. 
And I don't understand why more 

923
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:05,120
people don't do what it is to be
a successful agent. 

924
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:06,920
And why do you make it hard for 
yourself? 

925
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:10,760
I think, yeah. 
I mean, we could go down a 

926
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:12,120
massive rabbit hole. 
Sorry, I know. 

927
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:13,880
We're on a time limit. 
I'm, I'm trying to, I'm 

928
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,040
deliberately trying to take you 
off thread, aren't I? 

929
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,040
That's my plan. 
That's what you're doing now. 

930
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,200
Right, page 53. 
So content marketing, think 

931
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,480
about how brands engage with 
customers digitally, which types

932
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,520
of content, if any, it's more 
like to catch your attention. 

933
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,160
So again, from the age 
demographic side of things, 

934
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:35,920
unsurprisingly, I'd say older 
people AKA private landlords 

935
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:42,560
prefer quizzes, polls, articles,
interviews, images. 

936
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:46,320
But then the average home movers
are perhaps more likely to be 

937
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,440
younger very much in the short 
form video content. 

938
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:53,600
Hence why I mean I've done loads
of short form video content 

939
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,400
recently and why I've got 
involved with Digital Sparks and

940
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:57,880
obviously other providers out 
there. 

941
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,520
But as an estate agent listening
to this, if you're not doing 

942
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,760
short form video content, 
freaking do it. 

943
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,800
That that list there is what 
should be in your marketing 

944
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:10,520
strategy in terms of content 
integration. 

945
00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:14,120
You should be doing them all. 
I mean, it doesn't take long to 

946
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,040
create an image and infographic 
as well, especially with ChatGPT

947
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,280
and Gemini, you can create 
infographic real easy. 

948
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,240
Christopher Watkin produces 
ladies like this and they're 

949
00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:25,360
coming out, going out of fresh. 
I mean, the, the, the, the 

950
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,320
wealth of data that man produces
is insane. 

951
00:51:28,720 --> 00:51:31,200
So, you know, use it. 
I mean, quite frankly, because 

952
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,120
people say they love it, so why 
wouldn't you use it? 

953
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:38,440
But you know, OK, so only 8% of 
home movers say they would be 

954
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:39,840
captured by attention by quiz 
and poll. 

955
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,120
But why is it the one though 8% 
happens to own a £2,000,000 

956
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,440
house and loves the quiz so much
They instructed you? 

957
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,880
The thing about it, It's all of 
the above is what you should be 

958
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:52,360
doing. 
All of the above. 

959
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,240
And obviously focus your time to
do the what what you can 

960
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:59,440
reasonably do well. 
But short form video is always 

961
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:00,760
going to have it. 
The classic line. 

962
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,560
If a picture tells 1000 words, a
video tells 1000 pictures. 

963
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:07,600
To so to mix in like quiz polls 
and short form video content. 

964
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,480
Some of my most successful 
videos I would say is so short 

965
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,880
form video, but it's blind 
ranking. 

966
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:19,200
So like Simon, you're going to 
blind rank from one to five best

967
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,560
marketing methods. 
Yeah, let's, you know, first out

968
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,120
direct mail. 
I'm like, oh, where am I going 

969
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:25,760
to put that? 
It's amazing. 

970
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:27,120
But it's something better going 
to come out. 

971
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:29,640
I'll put it #2 and then people 
are hanging on to be like, 

972
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,200
what's he going to put #1 So 
works very well. 

973
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:36,400
In terms of page 55, which are 
following social networks, do 

974
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,760
you currently use? 
I'm going to go straight into 

975
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,560
YouTube because we just need to 
think about short form video 

976
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:44,840
content. 
You've obviously got shorts on 

977
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:46,880
YouTube as well as long form 
content. 

978
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,920
And I think people forget 
YouTube is owned by Google and 

979
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,640
like the amount of people using 
YouTube is insane. 

980
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,440
I'm on it every day, but then 
also on LinkedIn as well. 

981
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:01,760
I don't know if you've seen this
on your device this week, Simon,

982
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,720
but on LinkedIn now at the 
bottom, it keeps confusing me. 

983
00:53:05,720 --> 00:53:09,920
I'm actually going to go on to 
it now as we record on my phone 

984
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:14,400
now it's home network 
notifications, video jobs. 

985
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,560
There's now a video bottom of 
LinkedIn. 

986
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,120
So I can literally click video 
and treat it as if it's reels on

987
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,600
TikTok and just scroll, scroll, 
scroll. 

988
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:24,200
It was a clear. 
Indication of which? 

989
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:25,640
Direction it's going, I was at 
a. 

990
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,640
Presentation in September last. 
It was September last year and 

991
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,600
August last year, and they had a
senior vice president of 

992
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,720
LinkedIn and he said their 
entire focus was moving to video

993
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,440
first. 
Yeah, because they recognize 

994
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:44,000
that we consume video more than 
we consume anything else. 

995
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,880
So yes, video and across all 
channels. 

996
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:53,920
And again, the rule of this 
chart is there's probably 4-5 

997
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,760
you should really consider being
on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram,

998
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,680
TikTok and LinkedIn. 
Still five. 

999
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,440
Yeah, repurpose the content, 
change the messaging slightly, 

1000
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,720
but you should do all 5 because 
again, the more frequently 

1001
00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:10,720
people see you across more 
channels, the more likely they 

1002
00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:14,240
are to buy from you on. 
The what you just said there, 

1003
00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:19,280
when I have the videos that go 
out for me 3 * a week, they go 

1004
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,720
out on LinkedIn, TikTok, 
Instagram, YouTube, Facebook and

1005
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:26,320
Threads. 
Yeah, you know, I'm not really 

1006
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,200
using that. 
But I'd also say to any agents 

1007
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:32,640
listening to this, don't make 
the mistake of just hanging out 

1008
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,800
on the platform you like because
your client might actually hang 

1009
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,960
out on a different platform. 
So before I launch the my 

1010
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,200
business, I spent a lot of time 
in the like the essentially 

1011
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,640
Facebook groups and LinkedIn 
because you're kind of having 

1012
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,880
conversations and it's maybe 
data heavy and charts and stuff.

1013
00:54:51,240 --> 00:54:54,200
I was like Instagram, like I'm 
not a visual. 

1014
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,960
Like my stuff is not visually 
pleasing on the eye per SE, but 

1015
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:02,520
my God, I'd say if you said to 
me now, Simon, what's 1 channel 

1016
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,600
you couldn't drop? 
It'd be very, very. 

1017
00:55:05,720 --> 00:55:08,000
I'd say LinkedIn probably be top
now. 

1018
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:09,640
I would not. 
Thought I'd said that three 

1019
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:10,840
years ago. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1020
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:13,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely 
agree entirely. 

1021
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:16,120
Right. 
Where are we? 

1022
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:21,320
Page 57 One but last customer 
service Which one of the 

1023
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,960
following channels, if any, is 
your preferred way to contact a 

1024
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,480
business? 
So as much as we talk about 

1025
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,960
people don't want to answer the 
phone and that sort of stuff, I 

1026
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,120
get people don't want to answer 
the phone, but actually when 

1027
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:40,520
they want to go contact a 
business, the clear winner there

1028
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:41,960
is to they want to actually 
phone. 

1029
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,840
I definitely fall into that 
camp. 

1030
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:46,600
Yeah, I. 
Mean the quickest way to get an 

1031
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:47,920
answer should be phoning a 
business. 

1032
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,800
Yeah, because instant. 
Normally you're on the website, 

1033
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:52,200
you just click a number and you 
phone it. 

1034
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:55,000
It's really simple and you're 
going to speak to a human being 

1035
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,280
ideally, especially in smaller 
business, and they're going to 

1036
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,240
give you an answer. 
I don't have to navigate some 

1037
00:55:59,240 --> 00:56:01,880
complex kind of technology to 
kind of get through to you. 

1038
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,320
People don't want to answer the 
phone, but they bloody well want

1039
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,480
a phone. 
And therefore you've got to be 

1040
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,160
built to be able to handle that.
Now, if you're big enough, you 

1041
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,000
know a service like Money Penny 
is brilliant for that if you 

1042
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,120
want to outflow kind of overflow
to catch calls when you're not 

1043
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,000
around. 
But the worst thing you can do 

1044
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:21,120
is not answer the phone or the 
person who answered the phone 

1045
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:25,680
says it's not my job. 
I used to irritate me if I 

1046
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,320
walked into an office and 
someone went I'm secretary. 

1047
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:32,600
I like it's not my job of like 
if you're a barbecue and you say

1048
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:34,720
you work in the state agency, 
they're going to say how's the 

1049
00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:36,960
market? 
And don't just say it's not my 

1050
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:38,280
job. 
I'm secretary. 

1051
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,640
You should like doesn't matter 
if you're the cleaner or the 

1052
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,720
Lister. 
You you should know like have a.

1053
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:45,880
Have a view? 
Absolutely. 

1054
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:49,520
And you know, and if again, you 
know, small businesses, small 

1055
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:51,640
numbers of people in an office, 
not everyone can answer 

1056
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:55,640
everything, but let me take your
number and I'll get them to call

1057
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,960
you back straight away. 
And there's people like Calwell 

1058
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,520
and there's terms of tech out 
there that can handle these kind

1059
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:05,000
of calls and process them in all
right and turn them into an SMS 

1060
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:06,520
for someone who's out in the 
field. 

1061
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:08,640
So there's, there's many ways 
around it. 

1062
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:13,400
It's just there's no excuse when
40% of home movers say, I would 

1063
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:17,280
like to talk to you on the 
phone, make sure your phone is 

1064
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,720
answered. 
I remember she had a fans and 

1065
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,200
her detractors, but Allison 
Platt was my CEO at Countrywire 

1066
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,080
and I was the CMO, that 
marketing director there. 

1067
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,440
And I remember talking about all
the data club we were doing. 

1068
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,400
I was working with Michael 
Bolton, who was amazing digital 

1069
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:31,520
expert. 
We had, we had Google come over 

1070
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:32,960
all that really clever digital 
stuff. 

1071
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,960
And we did a presentation and 
said, that is amazing, Simon. 

1072
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:39,360
Yes to all of it. 
Is there any way you can get 

1073
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:40,640
people in branches to answer the
phone? 

1074
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:44,360
That was her biggest 
frustration. 

1075
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:47,280
She knew in every test they did,
when people phoned branches, no 

1076
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,360
one was answering the phones. 
Yeah. 

1077
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:51,640
And people want to speak to 
people on the phone. 

1078
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:55,600
So number one priority is make 
sure your telephone strategy 

1079
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,280
with everything else we've 
spoken about that your telephone

1080
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:01,400
answering system works. 
And yeah. 

1081
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,280
So a couple of points on that is
that it's like that speed to 

1082
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,680
lead, isn't it the business 
that's quicker to respond to 

1083
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:08,320
lead is more like to get the 
business. 

1084
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:13,720
And then also make it so easy 
for someone to find your phone 

1085
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,520
number, be it social media, 
website, whatever. 

1086
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:20,280
Because like, you know, large 
organisations, like I'll use Sky

1087
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,680
as an example. 
If I wanted to ring Sky up for 

1088
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,280
whatever reason, if I went on 
the website, I'd be a freaking 

1089
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,160
pain in the arse to ring them, 
probably because they don't want

1090
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:31,240
people ringing them because it's
I'd like, I'd like to cancel my 

1091
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:34,480
subscription, Oh God's sake. 
But yeah, fully with that right.

1092
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:42,360
Last one, page 58. 
How often do you use AI tools? 

1093
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:49,880
And it is quite clear that the 
public are using AI so and 

1094
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:54,360
actually on the so multiple 
times a day for the average home

1095
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:57,880
move of 36%. 
That's that's a high, high 

1096
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,200
number that that. 
Is that is high. 

1097
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,840
That was when, when we did the 
work on The Voice the agent 

1098
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:07,400
conference 2025, these numbers 
exceed where we thought we'd be 

1099
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,200
at the end of 2026. 
OK, interesting. 

1100
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:11,360
And that's in May, that's been 
in May. 

1101
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,040
If I did that again now, it'll 
grow even further. 

1102
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:21,080
It is genuinely becoming the, 
the adoption of AI essentially. 

1103
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:22,840
And in most cases this is a 
reality. 

1104
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:26,240
It's a glorified search engine. 
Tiny percentage of people are 

1105
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,880
using it for clever stuff. 
I mean really clever stuff. 

1106
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:30,960
What it's actually genuinely, I 
use it to create an app for the 

1107
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:32,240
other day. 
This is a prototype for 

1108
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,680
something I'm working on. 
And it took me an hour and a 

1109
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:36,280
half to do something which the 
developer would have taken 

1110
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,640
probably a month to do. 
And it's amazing what you can 

1111
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:42,120
get to do with things like 
Claude code and stuff, but the 

1112
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,960
average punter, 1/3 of home 
movers, people who tend to buy 

1113
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,360
or sell in the next 12 months, 
are using it multiple times a 

1114
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:51,080
day. 
That. 

1115
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,320
So there's a quote. 
I've just been trying to find 

1116
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:55,720
someone. 
I can't remember where I wrote 

1117
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:57,600
it down. 
I'm going to butcher it, but it 

1118
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:04,680
was something along the lines of
AI has got idiots acting like 

1119
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:07,240
they're geniuses or something. 
Yeah, yes. 

1120
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:09,320
But then. 
And, and I'll have to credit 

1121
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,600
this to Ben Marley and I don't 
know if he's OK with me sharing 

1122
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:15,640
this, but sorry, Ben, he said a 
line to me yesterday. 

1123
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:20,840
AI isn't coming for your job. 
It's got your customers. 

1124
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,000
I like that. 
And that how? 

1125
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,000
To be very true based on the 
data we've just talked about is 

1126
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,600
for yeah don't worry about 
coming for your job you're like 

1127
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:32,240
it's got your customers so think
about how you can deal with 

1128
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:36,520
those show up in AI searches and
also if they're using AI to try 

1129
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:40,440
and negotiate a fee with you 
negotiate a price make sure that

1130
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:44,160
you're ready and able to. 
How? 

1131
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,280
How have I gone from relatively 
unknown four years ago when I 

1132
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,080
used to sit behind the scenes of
working in companies and I never

1133
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,320
put my brand above the companies
like my personal brand above the

1134
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,000
companies I work for? 
How to go from nowhere to being 

1135
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:58,760
standing at Property Mark One 
and doing a talk and doing on 

1136
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,080
all all the best podcasts that 
are out there? 

1137
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:03,120
Well, I assume. 
Like a lot of others, you just 

1138
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:05,600
slip fivers like you do to me. 
Is that it's? 

1139
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:11,000
More than that, Simon, you 
probably should never tell 

1140
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,920
anyone no is a long time ago. 
I basically applied everything I

1141
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:18,880
teach in marketing to myself is 
you need to be out there with a 

1142
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:22,560
ton of content that shows you 
know what you're talking about. 

1143
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:25,600
That was events, that was 
reports, that was articles, 

1144
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:27,800
everything to be as prolific as 
possible. 

1145
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:31,680
And now if you research the 
voice of the, if you insert the 

1146
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:35,360
state aid industry, the voice of
the agent comes up as a source. 

1147
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:43,880
I was contacted by a PhD student
at UCL who was doing their PhD 

1148
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:46,520
and they wanted to cite the 
voice of the agent as research 

1149
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:48,320
in their PhD. 
And it's only getting some of 

1150
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:52,160
the technical details about 
sample sizes and methodologies. 

1151
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:57,800
Once you're being cited in 
university study, research PhDs,

1152
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,920
you've arrived as an authority. 
Now, I'm not suggesting for 

1153
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:05,080
everyone out there you need to 
do massive reports and appear on

1154
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,200
every podcast, but a local level
you need to do the same. 

1155
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:11,440
You know, I delights me every 
time you go on to LLM and you 

1156
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:13,480
type in tell me about the state 
agency industry. 

1157
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,640
It's not every time, but more 
often not the Voice of the Agent

1158
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,400
survey will be surfaced as a 
piece of research about the 

1159
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,280
industry. 
So I'm researching like trying 

1160
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,080
to find the answer and it quotes
myself back at me, which is 

1161
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:28,360
really annoying because I was 
trying to find a third party 

1162
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:31,640
verification and it's going the 
Voice of the Agent 2024 said 

1163
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:35,040
this like that way I already 
know that I need someone else to

1164
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:39,920
say that it's like. 
It's funny, yeah. 

1165
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:44,160
You say that when I, when I'm on
calls with agents and we're 

1166
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:46,960
going through something, can I 
read something on their website 

1167
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,080
or social media or a letter and 
I go. 

1168
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,520
Where'd you get that stat? 
From and they're like you. 

1169
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:56,760
I was like, I was like I I I was
like, yeah, I do I I'm like 

1170
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,120
recognise that data like yeah, 
you gave all right OK, yeah, 

1171
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,880
that's good then right. 
So whistle stop tour of part 

1172
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,520
five of the voice the agent. 
We've we've managed to do that 

1173
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:10,840
in, in good time. 
So before signing off as usual, 

1174
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:15,280
please do take a very quick 
moment Simon for your plug. 

1175
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:20,720
Two very quick dates of the 
diary, the excellent Joe Bourne,

1176
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:22,920
Claire Yates and Danny Nash and 
I coming together to do a couple

1177
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:24,520
of training courses. 
The first one's going to be on 

1178
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,280
the 14th of October, location to
be confirmed. 

1179
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:29,240
If you're interesting, watch out
for the dates. 

1180
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:30,880
They're all going to be 
available on our website, 

1181
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,800
wearandchain.co.uk. 
But just watch out for that. 

1182
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:36,160
It's going to be basically for 
people who do great day long 

1183
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,360
training sessions, doing one 
bumper session together over the

1184
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,400
course of the day. 
So 4 for the price of 1. 

1185
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:44,400
And then the 20th of November at
the University of Oxford. 

1186
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:46,960
The second the voice of the 
Asian Conference is being held 

1187
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:50,800
and if you want to really know 
what's going on the industry, 

1188
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:53,600
you've got to be in that room. 
And it's not going to be 

1189
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:55,880
expensive, but it's going to be 
brilliant minds in the room. 

1190
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:58,520
If you don't don't want to know 
what's going on the industry, 

1191
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:01,240
don't come the double. 
Negative. 

1192
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:03,160
I learned how to find and learn 
better from going to First 

1193
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:05,800
Business Marketing. 
If you don't want to open the 

1194
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:07,680
gate to more listings, don't get
in touch with me. 

1195
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,080
So for everyone listening, 
please do like, review, 

1196
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,080
subscribe, follow, share the 
podcast. 

1197
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:15,640
And that just leaves me to say 
Mr. Simon Ledbetter. 

1198
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:17,920
As always, thank you very much 
for being an amazing guest. 

1199
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,240
I really appreciate it. 
Thank you so much Simon. 

1200
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:20,960
Have a great day.