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Hello and welcome to Opening the
Gates to more listings for 

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Estate agents with me, Simon 
Gates. 

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And I'm delighted to be joined 
today by Mr. Ian Mackenzie. 

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Ian, thank you very much for 
joining me. 

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Thank you for the invite, Simon.
We're really looking forward to 

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this. 
I am too. 

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It's like having a state agency 
Royalty on the podcast today. 

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Right who? 
Who else is joining? 

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Us, No, I think I said to you 
when we first properly actually 

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had a conversation, I don't 
know, a couple of months ago 

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now, when a few of us had lunch 
in London. 

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Yeah, kind of. 
We'd seen each other in passing 

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at events, but I've probably had
a few beverages and not talking 

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much sense. 
And then we were both playing 

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golf in Scotland as well. 
So we've got to know each other 

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a little bit in recent. 
We did. 

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Yeah, we did. 
Yeah. 

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I played well the first day, you
played well the second day, and 

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then we probably best not to 
talk about the third day. 

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Yeah. 
Is there a lesson in that? 

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But we shouldn't play golf with 
each other. 

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But we need. 
To yeah, probably, unless, 

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unless we're talking about 
something on the way around and 

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then we can forget all the bad 
shots that we're playing. 

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Exactly. 
So yeah, I've, I've been wanting

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to get you on the podcast for, 
for a while now and I thought it

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was great to do it after we've 
got to know each other a little 

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bit, as I said, over over lunch 
and, and playing golf up in 

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Scotland. 
So for those who don't know you 

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who've been living under a Rock,
You are the CEO at the Guild of 

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Property Professionals, correct?
Correct. 

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Yes. 
And for anyone who doesn't know 

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you or what the Guild is, what 
what exactly does that entail? 

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What's what's your day today and
what is the Guild? 

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So the Guild is a network of 
independent agents. 

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We strictly have an exclusivity 
model. 

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That's one agent per town. 
It's not where they trade to, 

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it's where they trade from. 
We're staunch believers in the 

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High Street estate agency 
business, which actually I 

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believe that AI is going to 
enhance and not and not detract.

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And we offer a magnificent 
suite. 

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Of course, I would say this 
wouldn't a magnificent suite of 

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tools and services to Guild, to 
members. 

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Everything you can possibly 
imagine the the the stalwart is 

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the compliance offering with the
infamous Paul Loffley. 

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Paul was voted. 
We did a survey of our members 

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and it's the ninth reason why 
members join compliance because 

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it's the thing that nobody 
wants, but everybody needs. 

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But it was actually the one 
thing that they felt that was 

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the most valuable. 
But it's then they're just a 

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collection of marketing tools, 
advice, tips, data. 

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We aggregate, we aggregate our 
network, we we buy products in 

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for cheaper than agents can get 
them themselves. 

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And so our reason d'etre is that
the membership, yes, it costs 

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you money, but you should be at 
least breaking even. 

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And there's members making 25, 
forty, 50,000 lbs profit out of 

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all of the tools and services 
that we give them. 

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Nice. 
What an elevated pitch that was,

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by the way, Bang. 
He's done this before. 

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I remember in my early days at 
home search when we went into a 

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pandemic and and Sam Hunter, 
Giles Elwood came to some 

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agreement with the Guild. 
I remember doing loads of like 

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training with Guild agents. 
And I remember at the time, like

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I said, early days of home 
search leaving essentially 

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behind. 
And I knew what a big deal the 

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Guild was. 
And I was very impressed with 

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all the agents we were dealing 
with within the Guild. 

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And I've built up some really 
good relationships with some of 

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those agents, so. 
Yeah, we got lovely, lovely 

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members and we got brilliant 
agency, brilliant agencies. 

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I was, you know, chatting to a 
few this morning and they're 

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just smashing it at the moment. 
So you say about them smashing 

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at the moment. 
That's that's funny you say 

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that. 
So we're recording this on 

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Tuesday, the 30th of June. 
And I don't know about you, but 

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I find it funny how you can have
a conversation in the morning 

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with one agent who is smashing 
out of the park and then in the 

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afternoon an agent goes, it's 
really challenging out there at 

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the moment here. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah, there are. 
And this is the one mistake that

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I made when I first came. 
There's been many, many 

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mistakes, but the first mistake 
that I made when I became CEO of

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the girl is that I assume that 
all markets were the same. 

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I assume that it'd be the same 
in the north or the east or the 

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South or the West. 
And it, and life actually isn't 

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like that. 
So the, the broader principle is

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that you need to recognise that 
there are micro, micro markets 

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because there's different 
patterns of behaviour and 

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different demographics of people
that buy in those locations. 

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But this is where the smart 
agents are smart, is that they 

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understand that and then they 
adapt their style based upon the

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type of customers that they're 
dealing, dealing with. 

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You know, we know that. 
We know that at the moment, 

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London and the Southeast is 
strucking a little bit. 

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And so you then just have to 
adapt your style in terms of the

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communication with your 
customers to make sure that 

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you're offering the right advice
at all times. 

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So on on that advice there and 
be intrigued on your answering 

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this with with all your 
experience in estate agencies. 

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So how do you find this balance 
of trying to get out in 

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marketing to sellers now is a 
good time to sell, but then also

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flipping on its head and saying 
to buyers, now it's a good time 

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to buy? 
The, I mean, there's some 

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caveats with what I'm just about
to say. 

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Yeah, right. 
The caveat is this. 

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It depends on the equity that 
you've got in your property. 

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So we have to remember you've 
had a look at my, you've seen, 

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firstly, you've met me. 
So you see, you've seen how old 

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I am. 
I started in agency in 1987. 

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So we had the boom period at the
end of the 80s and we had a 

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significant bust at the late 80s
and early 90s. 

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So dependent upon negative 
equity. 

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And I am a person that 
personally had negative equity 

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when I first bought my house. 
So I've gone for about 7 years. 

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So, so long as we're not talking
to a customer with a bigger 

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mortgage than the the value of 
their home. 

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There's an expression that I 
used many, many, many times for 

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probably the 1st 20 years of my 
agency, which was what you lose 

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on the swings, you gain on the 
roundabouts. 

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I've heard you say that before. 
Yeah, I love it. 

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Yeah. 
And what that mean And there's 

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another expression that I use 
with agents, which is mind the 

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gap and I and on evaluation, I 
would honestly say Simon, 

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subject to the size of your 
mortgage, I generally don't give

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a monkey's what your house sells
for. 

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What I am obsessed about is the 
fact that you're looking for a, 

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you're looking to add £50,000 
extra to the pot and I'm 

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obsessed about finding you the 
home that is your dream home 

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with a 50,000 differential. 
The rest of it is superfluous. 

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Yeah, I love that I've and. 
That's what you need to do in 

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this marketplace with with 
prices going up and down and 

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people moving to different 
territories and all that sort of

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thing. 
You've just got to forget the 

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ego of the house price and 
concentrate on the actual 

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process and get delivering the 
end result. 

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So, right, so there's a couple 
of things on what you said that 

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I'm hope I'm going to keep both 
thoughts in my head. 

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The first one in terms of swings
and roundabouts and like the the

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changeover cost, I've literally 
just just changed cars. 

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And the way it was sold to me 
was we can have you in an 

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upgraded model. 
What you're already in, you'll 

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need to put down X, but you've 
just taxed your car. 

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Haven't you missed the gates? 
Yes, well, you're going to get 

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that straight back and this 
one's going to be taxed for next

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year. 
And then also you're not going 

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to have your monthly payment 
because we've just set, we were 

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about to settle on your car. 
So actually we in theory going 

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to be giving you money to then 
give you a new car and it's 

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upgraded at the same price. 
Like the whole, because if, if 

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they hadn't explained that the 
right way and go, Oh, get it 

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you, you put money. 
And I think that I remember 

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going to that car dealership, I 
think a couple of years ago now,

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and I said to the salesperson, I
was like, when I challenged you 

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and I can't remember what it was
at the time, whatever you said 

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was like brilliant. 
And I was like, obviously your 

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team, your other team members 
are not hearing this 

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conversation, but how would they
have handled that objection? 

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It's like, yeah, you you 
wouldn't have been buying a car.

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They would have gone. 
All right, Mr. Gates, I 

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understand. 
Goodbye. 

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It's it's called, it's a, it's a
technique called objection 

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blockers. 
So if you know through, if you 

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know through, I love data by the
way. 

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So I'm an old boy that loves 
data. 

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But if you know through 
observation of the objections 

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that you get that ruin the deal 
and you factor those into an 

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objection blocker, which is you 
talk about them and make them go

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away before you get to the to 
ask you, you've done your job. 

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And I can remember set, I can 
remember recruiting A lad a long

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time ago who worked for DFS, you
know, the furniture people. 

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DFS is the only place that 
Theresa May went to. 

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She's she's the only person in 
the UK that she was negotiating 

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Brexit at the time. 
And she came out of DFS having 

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paid the full price for her 
sofa. 

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But that's not bad at 
negotiation she was anyway. 

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And he basically used to say the
biggest, he said, we I said to 

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him, we do cross sells. 
He said, yeah, yeah, we do cross

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sells. 
So what cross sells do you get 

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you have to get the sofa sprayed
and protected and we got extra 

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pillows and all that sort of 
stuff. 

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And he said, how do you get over
the objection blocking? 

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And he said, so how do you, how 
do you sell that? 

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He said, well, I'm the top 
salesperson in the country for 

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it. 
And I said, well, that OK, you 

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always get that answer. 
How? 

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Tell me how? 
Don't tell me that you're funny.

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Make that answer. 
And he said it was really easy. 

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He said I would get a person. 
And they said we, we like this 

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sofa. 
And I would say to them, are you

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really, really think it's 
comfortable right now? 

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Yeah, it's really, really 
comfortable, Right. 

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So just so you know, when you 
get this sofa, it's not going to

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be quite as soft to this. 
So how many, how many hours a 

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day do you reckon you're sat on 
the sofa? 

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And be honest with me. 
And they say, well, about 5 

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hours, 5 or 6 hours a day. 
Yeah, like me, I, I just veg out

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every evening and then. 
And so he's got that. 

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And then when he gets to the end
of talking about the protection 

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of it, he says, right, so I've 
worked out that you're going to 

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be sat on the sofa this year, 
3000 hours. 

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Well, a 15115 hundred hours. 
We need to get protection added 

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on to it and the reason he did 
it that way and he said it's 

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only £1.20 a day or whatever it 
was, then minimize it. 

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Yeah, it's 2 pence a day. 
Because he'd worked out that the

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biggest objection that he was 
getting when he talked about the

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protection, which would cost an 
extra £500, the answer was we 

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don't sit on the sofa very much 
so we don't need it. 

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But he'd in the very early part 
of it worked out that they sit 

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on it every five hours, five 
hours every day. 

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Does that make sense? 
So he literally became the 

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objection completely before it 
arose. 

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00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:27,600
Makes complete sense. 
And I guess there's a before and

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00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,520
after in this story, but I was 
fortunate enough to see Jordan 

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00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,720
Belfort of Wolf of Wall Street 
speak at Wembley a couple of 

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00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:38,680
years ago and he kind of talked 
about the ethical way of selling

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00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:41,800
rather than his sex, drugs and 
rock'n'roll Wolf of Wall Street 

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00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,440
film sightings. 
And he kind of said his straight

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00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:49,360
line selling system early on, he
had people working for him and 

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00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,760
they were saying, Jordan, 
there's just too many 

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objections, objections, 
objections, objections. 

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00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,400
And he went, OK, got a white 
board out and went tell me every

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single objection you get. 
And what's every event anymore 

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00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,000
anymore anymore. 
And I think he said in the end 

224
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,560
there was about 9 objections 
they found when in in their line

225
00:11:05,560 --> 00:11:07,600
of business. 
He went, So when you say there's

226
00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,280
hundreds, there's nine, What 
we're going to do is we're going

227
00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,520
to combat them head on. 
You know what objections are 

228
00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,840
going to come. 
So we're going to just sort that

229
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,320
out at the start of the 
conversation and then move on 

230
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,040
from there. 
So no, I, I love that. 

231
00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:24,360
I, I find that we tend to kind 
of move away from friction, 

232
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,920
right, rather than towards it. 
And moving towards it is where 

233
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,920
we're actually going to get 
actually what the client wants. 

234
00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,400
So what I think you're saying 
about gentleman as well was he's

235
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,280
actually offering what the 
client does need, not what they 

236
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,560
want, like you said, what they 
need, but it's demonstrating in 

237
00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:40,280
a way that helps them 
understand. 

238
00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:42,720
Correct. 
Exactly that, yeah. 

239
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,840
Yeah, very interesting. 
I want to go back to a point. 

240
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,440
Well, actually, no. 
Before I go back to that, I use 

241
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,880
this line all the time, and I 
might have actually nicked it 

242
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,160
from you when you did 
Homestretch podcast. 

243
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:56,560
Don't Tell Me You're funny. 
Make Me laugh. 

244
00:11:56,680 --> 00:11:59,760
Yeah, I say that so many times 
to estate agents when it comes 

245
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,400
to their direct mail content. 
Yeah, letter content is saying 

246
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,560
that you're funny, not making 
them laugh. 

247
00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:08,360
So I'm an amazing estate agent. 
Rather than saying that, show 

248
00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,880
them how you helped a seller 
just like them. 

249
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,720
Yeah. 
Who was on the market failing 

250
00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:15,360
with someone else? 
Sell their property. 

251
00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,360
Laugh, not tell them you're 
funny. 

252
00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:20,120
Exactly. 
You made a point right at the 

253
00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,960
start in terms of AI enhancing 
the High Street agent. 

254
00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:26,880
Yeah. 
So I found that a really 

255
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,320
interesting point because I 
think there'd be a lot of people

256
00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,800
out there saying that's going to
kill the High Street. 

257
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:33,760
So can you elaborate on the 
enhancement? 

258
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,520
Yeah, very gladly. 
I need to go back to go forward.

259
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,960
OK. 
Back in, back in the olden days,

260
00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,080
there were newspaper 
advertising. 

261
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,440
Yeah. 
And my business in Winchester, 

262
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,000
we took out six pages of 
advertising every single week. 

263
00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,680
Why? 
Because it had a 30,000 

264
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:56,640
distribution. 
So that's 180,000 pages that 

265
00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:01,840
I've got distributed and I could
show and demonstrate to the 

266
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,760
general public because every 
Thursday night they get the, 

267
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,120
the, the rag out and have a 
look. 

268
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:06,920
I could demonstrate how good we 
were. 

269
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,280
I also put wanted in it. 
And I also put success 

270
00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,920
testimonials before testimonials
existed. 

271
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,720
Yeah. 
And if there was an agent down 

272
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,240
the road that only listed one 
house that week, they wouldn't 

273
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,880
take 6 pages, would they? 
They'd take a quarter page 

274
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,280
because they would manage their 
cash flow accordingly by their 

275
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,680
needs. 
So it was an unlevel playing 

276
00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:28,800
field. 
My, my business became a self 

277
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,800
perpetuating model through 
success. 

278
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,320
Then came the, the Internet. 
Then came the portals and it and

279
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:40,400
it created a level playing field
in that it became less about 

280
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:44,680
individual brands and it became 
more about going to a platform 

281
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,440
that aggregated data and 
aggregated the display. 

282
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,920
So the consumer wouldn't notice 
that I put 20 houses on that 

283
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,000
month. 
They would only see the houses 

284
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,480
in the price range they were 
looking at. 

285
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,840
And it might be that Gates and 
Co had one that was a good one. 

286
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,680
And it's your only instruction 
that month. 

287
00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:02,640
Yeah. 
So it created the level, A more 

288
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,560
level playing field. 
So that's the first thing. 

289
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:10,600
Press gave an advantage to 
larger agencies, but it also 

290
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,080
gave the benefit to smaller 
agencies of cash flow 

291
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:15,960
management. 
Yeah, then then. 

292
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,520
So that's been the case for the 
since 22,000 and two, in the 

293
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,560
last couple of years there's 
been a unlevel playing field 

294
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,520
that's been created by social 
media and video content. 

295
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,160
And, and what we've seen is that
those agents, and I'll include 

296
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,720
the self-employed personal model
within that, which I don't have 

297
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,400
any problem with, by the way, 
but invariably you tend to find 

298
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,840
that they're very good at social
media and video activity. 

299
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,920
And the more traditional, more 
established estate agency 

300
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:45,520
haven't been. 
Yeah. 

301
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,000
So it's become a little bit of 
an unlevel playing field again, 

302
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,160
AI is going to help people like 
me that don't necessarily like 

303
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:54,960
to be in front of a video do it 
for me. 

304
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,160
It's going to write the content.
I can get a digital twin, I can 

305
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,440
create or we can create anything
that we want through AI moving 

306
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,320
forward. 
And so put then change that to 

307
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,920
the the viewpoint of the 
consumer, it's going to be very 

308
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,440
difficult for the consumer to 
articulate a point of 

309
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,960
differentiation between every 
estate agent moving forward. 

310
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,880
In fact, any business moving 
forward, it's not just our 

311
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:22,080
sector because AOAI will start 
to level the playing field in 

312
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:26,840
terms of professionalism of 
delivery to with anything that 

313
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:28,000
we do. 
Yeah. 

314
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,680
And This is why I think that the
High Street is going to actually

315
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:36,480
come into a new golden era 
because in, if you look at the 

316
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,120
expression, the camera never 
lies. 

317
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,680
That was out there 30 years ago.
The camera only ever lies now. 

318
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,720
And, and So what are people 
going to do? 

319
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,640
They're going to revert to a 
feeling of trust. 

320
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:55,880
They're going to seek guidance 
and support from one to one 

321
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,240
contact. 
So will AI embed within this 

322
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,680
industry, 1000%. 
We're already working on it for 

323
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:03,200
Guild members. 
We've got some great things that

324
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,760
we're going to be announcing 
fairly shortly, but that'll be 

325
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,680
back office automation, process 
automation. 

326
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,280
So we're not going to have to 
make 20 calls to arrange a 

327
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,680
viewing anymore that that'll be 
done through our WhatsApp pal 

328
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,760
that's integrated to our CRMS 
and our Diaries. 

329
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,760
And it'll do it all for you. 
But the bit that the consumer is

330
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:24,400
going to seek, I think is it the
reassurance and the confidence 

331
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,240
and the trust of actually the 
eyes to eyes, nose to nose and 

332
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,640
toes to toes. 
But, and, and I would say this 

333
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,120
wouldn't I, because I'm head of 
the Guild, but physically 

334
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,520
knowing where to go to meet a 
person. 

335
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,080
And that for me is a High Street
office or a service suite. 

336
00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:46,240
Yeah, so right. 
The camera never lies lying. 

337
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,320
That's another one I'm stealing 
from you because that's that's 

338
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:50,800
so true. 
People don't know what's real 

339
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:55,280
and what's not real these days. 
Another thing that came to mind 

340
00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,840
in what you're saying was my 
girlfriend's brother bought his 

341
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:04,319
first house earlier this year 
and he is 30. 

342
00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:06,680
I'm going to say I'm 35. 
So I think he's, I'm a 

343
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:07,599
millennial. 
He's Gen. 

344
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,960
Z. 
And knowing what I do for a 

345
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,160
living, he was like, can I come 
around your house? 

346
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,200
I just want you to read the 
contract before I sign it to 

347
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,920
exchange contracts. 
And I, I sort of said to him, as

348
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,200
I mean, I've like pretended to 
read. 

349
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,800
I said like, it's a freaking 
contract. 

350
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,319
And I, I said to him, I signed 
it. 

351
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:28,520
I've witnessed it. 
I was like, mate, you like you, 

352
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,600
you just needed comfort from a 
human being who's who's done 

353
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:32,920
what you're about to do, didn't 
you? 

354
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,200
That's, that's what it was. 
Because everything has been kind

355
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,840
of over e-mail. 
It's all digital stuff you can 

356
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,440
ask these days, ChatGPT 
questions, whatever, but you 

357
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,680
just wanted to speak to a human 
who's been there, done that, got

358
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,440
the T-shirt. 
It's like 100%. 

359
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:47,000
We're herd. 
We're herd animals. 

360
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,920
Yeah, 100%. 
And and on that, so the other 

361
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,240
thing as well. 
And I actually just shared this 

362
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,520
story with an agent earlier 
today who is actually a 

363
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,560
self-employed agent. 
And I use a story that Rory 

364
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,760
Sutherland has used. 
I'm probably butcher it, but 

365
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:09,000
it's around kebab shop, OK. 
And his analogy, I think if I 

366
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,280
tell it correctly is it's a 
Friday night, you've had a few 

367
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,760
drinks and you go right. 
I can't wait to go have a kebab 

368
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,600
and you're on your High Street, 
you've got 2 choices. 

369
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,160
You've got this kebab shop which
has been there for years and 

370
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,200
you're like well it's been there
for years. 

371
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,880
It's not going anywhere. 
And they probably have a lease 

372
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,520
that they're paying out for many
years to come. 

373
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:34,600
And then next to it I've got 
this like mobile kebab van, same

374
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,680
menu, like looks OK but I'm just
nervous. 

375
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,880
But what if they poison me 
because they could just go on to

376
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,720
the next town the next day? 
That's a great analogy. 

377
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,000
And and like the way he shares 
it is, is brilliant. 

378
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,840
And I'm like, that's so true. 
And there's a really good saying

379
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,600
people. 
And this isn't me discrediting 

380
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,240
the High Street. 
I'm very passionate about High 

381
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,480
Street as a High Street agent, 
but people prefer predictable 

382
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,560
hell over an unpredictable 
heaven. 

383
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,520
OK, so I'm not, that's not me 
slating the High Street, but 

384
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,400
there are still, there are 
agents who perhaps are very 

385
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,120
large and have been around for a
very long time who maybe don't 

386
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,080
get the best results. 
And I've got the new kid on the 

387
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,920
block saying Simon, well, why do
they still keep getting business

388
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:19,880
right? 
Because they they are. 

389
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,640
There's comfort there. 
People have walked past them on 

390
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,280
that High Street every day on 
the way to the tube when they 

391
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,080
get their newspaper, whatever it
is. 

392
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:31,280
So, yeah, better, better. 
The devil you know. 

393
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,480
I I I really hope that doesn't 
come across as. 

394
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,240
No, I, I don't think, I don't 
think it. 

395
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,040
I don't think that ring fences, 
any category 'cause you got the 

396
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,960
corporates, the regional 
independence, the local local 

397
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,720
independence, self-employed 
model, et cetera. 

398
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,320
I think you could get either a 
predictable hell or an 

399
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,840
unpredictable heaven out of any 
of those, couldn't you? 

400
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:54,320
Yeah. 
I think the the difference with 

401
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,400
a High Street office is that if 
you get a predictable hell you 

402
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,600
know where to go and complain. 
Yeah, yeah. 

403
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,520
Exactly. 
If you get a predictable and 

404
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,800
unpredictable heaven, you know 
where to go and drop off the 

405
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,000
bottle of Scots to say thank 
you. 

406
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,640
Yeah, but that's my take. 
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, 107. 

407
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:16,320
So another term you used was, I 
think, a new golden era. 

408
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,880
Yes. 
And again, the way the way my 

409
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:25,080
brain went on, that was when 
social media or let's say e-mail

410
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,280
became the thing and social 
media, it was all exciting. 

411
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,760
Oh my God, I got an e-mail. 
Oh my God, I got a friend 

412
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,760
request on social media. 
Now it's flipped on its head 

413
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:35,920
where it's like, my God, I get 
so many emails. 

414
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:37,880
I get so many social media 
notifications. 

415
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,280
Oh, it's so rare that I receive 
a letter. 

416
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,360
It's exciting when I get a 
letter in the post. 

417
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,600
So it's kind of like that flip 
on its head. 

418
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,840
And I think I heard Josh Vegan 
say it, that relationships 

419
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,680
transcend all market conditions.
It doesn't matter what what 

420
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,160
model comes and go, what 
technology comes and go. 

421
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,000
You've seen plenty of change in 
your career. 

422
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,560
But the estate agents who 
succeeded, the ones who are very

423
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,880
good at creating, building, 
maintaining relationships. 

424
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,160
Yeah. 
So there's, so the, the first 

425
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,080
instance is so when I started my
business in Winchester, we 

426
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,320
wanted to be, our definition was
we wanted to be the agent of 

427
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,520
choice. 
And what did we mean by that? 

428
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,840
What was that internal? 
The choice was that we're one of

429
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:21,080
three that gets called out on, 
on 50, sixty, 70% of the 

430
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,160
valuations in the market. 
Because if, if I knew that with 

431
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,360
our approach, our 
professionalism, our, our 

432
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,920
network and I was a Guild member
for 10 years, that we would have

433
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,440
a better than average chance of 
winning that instruction. 

434
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,000
That's the first thing. 
The second thing that the other 

435
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,920
driver for me, and This is why I
feel very passionate about our 

436
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,840
state agency. 
I honestly, we work so hard and 

437
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,360
so tirelessly because our 
mindset was that we needed to 

438
00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:53,240
protect the public from other 
agencies that were not as good 

439
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,600
as us. 
And so we considered ourselves 

440
00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,000
the 4th emergency service 
because at a time of need, when 

441
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,600
genuinely when you're in a 
different difficult market, 

442
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:07,840
conditions or finances are 
tough, etcetera, it's not about 

443
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,960
just saying that you're funny. 
It is about making them laugh, 

444
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,680
but you know, help helping them 
make the right decisions for 

445
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,120
themselves. 
And that comes with 

446
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:23,520
responsibility in my mind. 
So I'd say on so first of all, 

447
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,280
it I, I don't know if you saw me
sort of laughing to myself when 

448
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,200
you said emergency service 
because I've got that written 

449
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,240
down in my books. 
I've heard you say it numerous 

450
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:32,960
times. 
I never heard it before. 

451
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,320
And the first time you said it 
on a podcast, I was like, that 

452
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:41,160
is so freaking true. 
IA week does not go by. 

453
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:46,280
I literally had it on Sunday. 
My best mate messaged me. 

454
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:47,920
Let me find I'll find it 
quickly. 

455
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:53,480
Actually, where is it? 
And it's funny because all my 

456
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,520
friends take the piss out of me 
for how much I talk about the 

457
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,480
property market. 
Yeah, whenever there's help 

458
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,800
needed in the property market, 
who they come to it's. 

459
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:03,000
Not a job, it's an it's an 
obsession. 

460
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:04,840
Yeah. 
And so, so on that. 

461
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,160
So I'll come back to message in 
a second. 

462
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:11,040
I am in Jake Humphrey and Damien
Hughes's latest book on high 

463
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,240
performance. 
There was a chapter in there 

464
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,520
about a job, a career, a 
calling. 

465
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:22,440
And you know, a job is 9 to 5 
check in, check out, take your 

466
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,360
hours, lunch, take holiday, 
maybe take advantage of sick 

467
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:27,160
pay. 
Like that's just your, your 

468
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:28,880
worker. 
You then got a career. 

469
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,000
People who, you know, like their
job, they want to go up the 

470
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,040
ladder, but they're not obsessed
by it. 

471
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,560
Whereas you and I and I think 
plenty of people we know and 

472
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,720
people have this podcast, this 
industry is their calling. 

473
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,840
Like obsessed about it, so 
passionate about it. 

474
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:50,840
I, I want, I want this industry 
to, I want people to be proud to

475
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,720
say they work in estate agency 
rather than be like, oh, I don't

476
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,880
want people to know that because
the, the perception. 

477
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:01,920
And I also want, I hate when 
people say I fell into it by 

478
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:03,280
accident. 
They're offering me a company 

479
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:04,720
car and I didn't have any 
qualifications. 

480
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,600
I didn't know what to do. 
I want people to be saying I 

481
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,680
want to be an estate agent. 
I would love that for the 

482
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,640
industry. 
So the text my friend sent to 

483
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,720
me, so he forwarded on a 
message, it said Matt do you 

484
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,640
think your mate who works in 
property might take a quick look

485
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,720
at this listing and give us his 
opinion on whether it's worth a 

486
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,400
guy price or if we should go in 
lower? 

487
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,720
Yeah. 
I get that sort of message every

488
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,840
single week from friends or 
friends of friends, people I've 

489
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,520
met at weddings, funerals, like 
coming in, going. 

490
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,320
We want to make sure we're not 
overpaying. 

491
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,440
Yeah. 
For a, for a property. 

492
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:41,600
So yeah, it happens all the 
time. 

493
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,680
And I wanted to make that point 
because I say to agents, if you 

494
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:50,800
drive past a for sale board of 
another agent and you truly 

495
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,080
think that it's being under 
marketed, under serviced and you

496
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:58,040
are the best agent, I'd argue 
you have a duty of care to knock

497
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,920
on their door or send them a 
letter or phone them and say I 

498
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,800
think you deserve better. 
So back in the olden days when 

499
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:11,000
estate agents used to 1st chase 
their their old valuations, it's

500
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,400
an absolute true story. 
I went and valued the house in 

501
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,200
in Oliver's Battery Winchester 
big plot. 

502
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,080
Chase them, chase them. 
No, not ready, Chase no not 

503
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,160
ready. 
Six months later picked up the 

504
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,680
phone to them and said we've 
agreed a sale. 

505
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,320
And I said, I'm going to ask you
a really personal question now 

506
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,920
and you're not going to want to 
give me the answer to it, but I 

507
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,960
can promise you that I asked 
this question with the best of 

508
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:37,720
intent. 
That's what that's where I'm 

509
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,800
going to leave it. 
Could you tell me the name of 

510
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,000
your buyer, please? 
And they said, you're right. 

511
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,400
I don't want to tell you. 
I said, OK, let me just tell 

512
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,800
you, give you a little bit more.
You've got a building plot on 

513
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,960
the side of your property. 
We discussed that. 

514
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,720
And I just want to check out and
see who it is that's buying it 

515
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,600
because I'll know whether it's a
developer and they're buying it 

516
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,600
cheap. 
I said, well, so if you don't 

517
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,160
want to tell me, tell me what 
they're paying for it. 

518
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,000
He said, well, this we went for 
the we went for, I'll make it 

519
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,040
up. 
Can't remember, it's long time 

520
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,760
ago, 500 grand. 
I said OK, I said now I'm really

521
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,600
going to press for the answer. 
Could you tell me who's buying 

522
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,240
it please move forward. 
They were selling it to a 

523
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,880
developer that hadn't disclosed 
himself as a developer. 

524
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,480
The agent was taking an 
introduction fee from the 

525
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,720
developer to get it off market 
without a subject to planning 

526
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,960
deal. 
I ended up selling that for them

527
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,440
for about 100,000 lbs more, 
about 25% more on a subject to 

528
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,600
planning deal and they ended up 
being delighted. 

529
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,520
Now, if I hadn't have pushed, 
pushed, and this is my, this was

530
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,200
my objective all the time, we're
not just looking to sell 

531
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,560
people's houses and getting to 
move, we're looking to help 

532
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:41,560
them. 
Yeah, yeah. 

533
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,960
And if I hadn't asked the right 
questions and been passionate 

534
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,800
enough and cared enough about 
the answer, then I would have 

535
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,720
just let that go. 
And I, and again, I just think 

536
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,240
that that's that moral 
obligation. 

537
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,640
So the Guild is the perfect home
for me because I'm salesy, I 

538
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,280
want to make money, I'm 
commercial, but I also have a 

539
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,840
really strong calling for moral 
obligation all the time. 

540
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,480
So you reminded me of a quote I 
heard Tom Panos say in the past 

541
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,160
couple of weeks when spent some 
time with him and it was on a 

542
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,200
podcast, a recorded room 
actually, which come out in the 

543
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,760
future. 
And he said something along the 

544
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,720
lines of impact and income can 
go together. 

545
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,800
But so many people think like, 
oh, it's salesy income, but like

546
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,800
morals and ethics, it's like, 
no, they can go in line so you 

547
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,480
can have a real positive impact 
and make an income for it. 

548
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,360
You made me think of similar 
sort of story. 

549
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,560
I've know a dozen years ago, I 
went to see a lady, inherited a 

550
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,920
home doing a probate valuation. 
It was going to go on the 

551
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,880
market. 
I think I was one of three 

552
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,920
agents and I was the only agent 
to say you're a bungalow sitting

553
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,400
very centrally. 
There's a building plot at the 

554
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,560
back. 
Now, if you do have the 

555
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,000
resources, time, money, I can 
introduce you to someone that's 

556
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,240
the right thing for you to do. 
And she was like, oh, the other 

557
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,240
two agents said, yeah, get it on
the market. 

558
00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:59,960
Don't worry about probate. 
We can sort that out in the 

559
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:01,560
future. 
Like get it on. 

560
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:06,160
I was like, you slow down, make 
sure everything's right now. 

561
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,280
That was the the right thing to 
do. 

562
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:12,240
There's no like thinking, I 
wasn't thinking of the future 

563
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,800
compound effect of that. 
But a very Long story short, a 

564
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:21,520
developer bought the bungalow, 
renovated it, resold it. 

565
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,680
So I got 2 sales there. 
They then bought the building 

566
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,520
plot. 
So I got that sale. 

567
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,400
They then built the house. 
I then got that. 

568
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,560
The person who bought that 
house, I sold theirs. 

569
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,040
And then the developer said, oh 
Simon, I've got a gated 

570
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,480
development of a dozen units, 6 
barn conversions and six brand 

571
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:40,240
new. 
Do you want to sell them? 

572
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,440
So as I say, we're talking, I 
say best part of, I don't know, 

573
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,800
200 grand worth of fees because 
I I gave the ethical advice 

574
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,160
expecting nothing in return. 
Yeah, correct. 

575
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,800
Yeah, like that very good. 
That's the right thing. 

576
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,680
It's just the right thing to do.
And everyone was happy because 

577
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,480
there was total transparency. 
That's the thing that's really 

578
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,200
important with it. 
Yeah, and I I it's funny on on 

579
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,520
my first day of estate agency 
work experience in the summer of

580
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,680
O7I bore people all the time of 
the story. 

581
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,680
I asked the negotiator what's 
the best advice you can give 

582
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,160
her? 
Wet behind the ears. 

583
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,080
Naive 16 year old. 
I probably didn't use that 

584
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,600
language as a 16 year old. 
And she said always be honest. 

585
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:23,560
And at the time was 16. 
I was like what shit advice but 

586
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,760
then going through my career and
I I got introduced at a Golf 

587
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,280
Club. 
I joined and they said this is 

588
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,760
Simon a new member shiny suit 
has a clip or clip or can't 

589
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,320
trust him and someone said not 
another fucking estate agent. 

590
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:40,680
So as like all these things kept
happening. 

591
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,720
I check out the veracity index 
every year. 

592
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,800
Only a third of the public trust
estate agents to tell the truth.

593
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,280
And so it takes me back to that 
16 year old Simon going. 

594
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,480
I get what you meant now, but I 
always be honest. 

595
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,160
So like, if you don't know the 
answer, tell them you don't 

596
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:55,600
know. 
But I'll go find out and I'll 

597
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:56,200
come back to you. 
Yeah. 

598
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,760
Exactly right. 
So I want to go back on on the 

599
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:05,520
point you made earlier in terms 
of the emergency service. 

600
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,200
So I love that point and below 
that I had written down 

601
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,840
something, but I've heard you 
say several times when I've 

602
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,760
heard you speak and I think it's
about a litmus test in terms of 

603
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:19,880
transaction levels in the 
country. 

604
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,920
So can you elaborate on on that?
Because I think it's brilliant 

605
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,640
if you. 
Haven't said that this time. 

606
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,160
Rather litmus test in terms of 
trans. 

607
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,440
Oh, give me some more. 
Give me, give me a little bit 

608
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:31,720
more. 
So I think you basically, So 

609
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,640
what you would have said is like
when the recession happened in 

610
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:35,400
the yeah, I know what you're 
saying. 

611
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:36,960
Yeah, I know what you're saying,
right. 

612
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,360
So, so, so here we are at the 
moment. 

613
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,760
We're always obsessed by 
transactional volume, aren't we?

614
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:46,160
So, yeah, the point is that as a
trading agent, I genuinely 

615
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,280
wouldn't give a monkey's where 
the prices are going up or 

616
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:53,120
prices are going down. 
That is, that is a different 

617
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,280
communication pattern, different
words that you used to need to 

618
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,240
to articulate to the customer 
what's actually happening. 

619
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,280
Generally don't care subject of 
course to equity. 

620
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,600
I've got that, that the equity 
they've got in the home. 

621
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,480
But the only thing I do obsess 
about is, is transactional 

622
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,120
volume. 
What we know from a data 

623
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,000
perspective, we know that in 
2008 and 2009 that transactional

624
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,400
volume went down from at the 
peak of 1.6 million or 1.8 

625
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,840
million a couple of years before
down to 700,000 transactions. 

626
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,400
They're non discretionary. 
Those are people that had to 

627
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:29,960
move. 
They didn't want to move. 

628
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,400
They didn't choose to move in a 
global financial crash, they had

629
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,480
to. 
So when the last time it was 

630
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,080
stress tested, that was the line
in the sand 700,000. 

631
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,440
Anything above that is 
discretionary, IE people want to

632
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,680
or choose to move. 
And so your marketing strategy 

633
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,760
for me has to have two 
objectives. 

634
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,880
Number one, as an estate agent, 
you want to be perceived to be 

635
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,880
the agent of, of choice through 
trust, through performance, 

636
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,280
through behaviour, through when 
I really, when my back's against

637
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,440
the wall and I need to sell non 
discretionary, I'm going to go 

638
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,360
to McKenzie and Co when it, when
it is a discretionary lifestyle 

639
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,120
change, whatever the other 
marketing strategy that you have

640
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,480
should be to, to that which is 
fulfilling dreams, helping 

641
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,520
people move to their dream 
homes, getting the best price, 

642
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,040
etcetera. 
And where, where will we see 

643
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:21,920
transactions this year? 
I mean, it's the mute point at 

644
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,720
the moment, but somewhere around
1,000,000 is 1.1 last year 1.15 

645
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,160
I think it was, it ended up last
year. 

646
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,080
I won the Chris Watkins Award 
for getting most predictions 

647
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,000
right, by the way. 
You didn't have you didn't have 

648
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,040
stiff competition. 
I did you Russell Quirk and. 

649
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,240
Russell Quirk might be Prime 
Minister in a few years. 

650
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,640
Yeah, we bet we we we better 
keep him close if he if he is. 

651
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,600
Exactly. 
But I reckon we'll be around 

652
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,160
about a million transactions, 
which is a little bit low, lower

653
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,440
than it has been with more 
agencies in there, you know, 

654
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,080
more self-employed. 
So you know more, you know, more

655
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:55,880
people eating the the slice of 
the pie. 

656
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,600
And so that's where you really 
need to think about your 

657
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,000
marketing strategies. 
And for me when I was in 

658
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,080
Winchester, when I first set up 
in Winchester, I made the 

659
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,640
decision, this is pre data 
really, so it's a bit harder. 

660
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,240
So you're going on your gut feel
and knowledge of the area. 

661
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,840
But I wanted to dominate when I 
first set up three locations, 

662
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,480
Kingsworthy, Cold and Common and
Badger Farm, they were the three

663
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,680
big estates. 
I knew that if I got one house 

664
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,200
in the market, I'd get 2. 
I knew that I'd turn 1 LB pound 

665
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,040
worth of revenue into £1.75 
because I'd cross sell into my 

666
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,440
mortgages and my conveyancing 
and pick up some lettings. 

667
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,880
And so we, the only marketing 
strategy that we had in those 

668
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,200
days were those three locations 
didn't boil the ocean, didn't 

669
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,280
have enough money was just very 
specific in terms of those 

670
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:45,240
locations. 
And we knew the market so well 

671
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,040
that if we put a house on the 
market, A3 bed detached in 

672
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,720
Silverwood close, we were going 
hand delivers. 

673
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,840
I'm talking 27 years ago, by the
way, we're going hand deliver 

674
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,720
those detail, those details to 
another, another Rd. in Badger 

675
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,240
Farm, Badger Farm Rd. because 
they had a 2 bed and they wanted

676
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,560
to move up to three just listed 
this house. 

677
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,880
Call me if you want to view it. 
And but now there's technology 

678
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,040
that can do that. 
You know, there's, you can drive

679
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:09,800
the cost of that down 
dramatically. 

680
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:14,239
So we would understand the areas
that we wanted, we'd spend our 

681
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,600
money in those areas and then 
we'd understand the 

682
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,320
demographics. 
Now in today's world, it it is 

683
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,440
the most eclectic client base 
that estate agencies ever had. 

684
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,159
You've in in one household, 
you've got techno phobes and 

685
00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:29,520
techno bods. 
You've got different 

686
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,320
generations, those that won't 
use text because it's too slow, 

687
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,280
they'll only use WhatsApp and 
tick. 

688
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:36,920
And I was going to say tick 
tock. 

689
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,960
It's not, it's not Snapchat 
you've got. 

690
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,440
So you nowadays, how would I 
evolve my thinking? 

691
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,960
I'd still probably want to 
identify the areas that I'd 

692
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,920
wanted to dominate. 
I'd then look at the demographic

693
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,920
profile of the people that live 
within them and I'll build an 

694
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,280
Omni channel marketing strategy 
that would then work for each of

695
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,920
those locations. 
Definitely social, definitely 

696
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,760
video, some e-mail campaigns, 
but I'll be really specific 

697
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,520
about the the the subject line, 
which people delete based upon 

698
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,600
the subject line. 
I would definitely have print 

699
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,960
included within it. 
I'll definitely have magazines 

700
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,960
because magazines are, you know,
just supportive going to all of 

701
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,680
the, the, the nice hotels and 
the doctor surgery. 

702
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,480
And coincidentally, we give away
free magazines within the Guild 

703
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,040
to see what I did. 
I knew you were doing that. 

704
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:31,360
And yeah, I'll build out the 
right the right demographic 

705
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,480
campaign for the areas that I 
want. 

706
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,880
And I would, I'd be a cheeky 
bugger. 

707
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,000
I'd go and do videos. 
If you put a house on the market

708
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,040
in the area that I want, I'd 
come outside and say Simon's 

709
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,240
just lifted an absolute Corker 
of a house. 

710
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,280
It's blah, blah, blah, blah, 
blah, and I'll talk about your 

711
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,800
house and you'd get really 
annoyed with me and I'll relate 

712
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,520
that back to what we used to do.
We used to work our local own 

713
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,560
local applicants that hadn't 
found something every when Right

714
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,880
Move first came out. 
For me, it was like the godsend.

715
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,720
We would get in at 8:00 in the 
morning, but have a look and see

716
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:05,000
what's new. 
We'd have our morning late 

717
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,000
meeting and the first calls that
we would make in the morning 

718
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,200
were to the people whose houses 
that we'd valued that we thought

719
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,920
that they would want the house 
that and it used to be Fox and 

720
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:17,120
Sunset. 
It's Adam Sparks. 

721
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,320
He's a Guild member now. 
Hello, Sparksy. 

722
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,160
If you're listening, I'd phone, 
I'd phone up and say Mr. Brown, 

723
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,760
and this is true story. 
Mr. Brown. 

724
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,320
I remember his name. 
Mr. Brown. 

725
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,880
Fox and Sons has just listed a 
bungalow in the road that you 

726
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,120
want. 
Do you want me to arrange a 

727
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,560
viewing for you? 
We used to do that all the time.

728
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,120
We used to hot phone or oppose 
new instructions not to try and 

729
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:42,080
gain the fee, but knowing that 
Fox and Sons would have found it

730
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,600
and then I'd have been cut out 
of the loop on the go back to 

731
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:46,280
revalue his house. 
Yeah. 

732
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,920
So we would be, we'd be acute to
that sort of behaviour in terms 

733
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,720
of making sure that if there's a
house that we wanted, we'd over 

734
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:58,080
index to try and get it. 
Yeah, love that language over 

735
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,200
index, right? 
For everyone listening, like the

736
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,480
whole podcast I've been loving, 
like I'm sure we could talk all 

737
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:09,040
day in on this, but particularly
last five minutes, just rewind 

738
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,440
and re listen to what Ian said 
because it was just full of 

739
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,920
absolute gold, proper, proper 
estate agency and a couple of 

740
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,920
bits. 
I just want to run back through 

741
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,680
in terms of what you said on the
CRM system I used when I was an 

742
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,040
agent, there were three reports 
I had set up buyers with houses 

743
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,080
to sell within my patch, 
withdrawn properties and lost 

744
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,280
market appraisals. 
So every morning in the morning 

745
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,960
meeting, it was I because I 
worked in a dozen branch network

746
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,160
and I was landlocked. 
So I was surrounded by all the 

747
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,320
other offices. 
So someone might register with 

748
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,480
the Milton Keynes office and 
have a house to sell in Newport 

749
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,160
Pagnell. 
So I'm immediately saying to 

750
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,120
Milton Keynes at 8:00 in the 
morning, I can't see any notes 

751
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:46,960
in the file saying you've 
offered them evaluation. 

752
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,320
So it's like right, I'm going to
drop an e-mail to them. 

753
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,360
And towards the end of my time 
as an agent, and I was using 

754
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,480
home search in its infancy, I'd 
e-mail, Dear Mr. McKenzie, I see

755
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,520
you registered Milton Keynes 
office looking for somewhere to 

756
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,000
buy. 
And then she got a property in 

757
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,400
Newport Pagnell. 
Click here to read a free report

758
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,480
I've created for you. 
And obviously you click on it. 

759
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,400
I see you clicked on it. 
And people would say, I love 

760
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,240
this report, Simon. 
Only problem is there's no price

761
00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:11,880
on it. 
And I left that off on purpose. 

762
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,360
So I'd say great, when's a good 
time for me to come out and see 

763
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:15,920
you because that's the value of 
your home. 

764
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,040
So love that. 
In terms of the magazine side of

765
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,400
things, Michael Graham, we used 
to have the acquire magazine, 

766
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,000
which would come out quarterly. 
That was unbelievable for me. 

767
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,600
So for once a quarter, I'd take 
out whoever was like my junior 

768
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,960
leg at that time. 
One of us who would be driving, 

769
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,800
1 would be in the passenger seat
and we'd just circulate our 

770
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,760
patch in terms of the pubs, the 
coffee shops, the doctor's 

771
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,680
surgery, the dentist, the 
places, the middle to higher end

772
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,760
of the market buyers, homeowners
would be hanging around. 

773
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,440
Yeah, put our magazines around. 
And then again, lost appraisals,

774
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,600
withdrawn properties, 
unconverted appraisals, just 

775
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,160
dropping those magazines through
the door. 

776
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,160
And what was quite funny was 
that we'd have board meetings 

777
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,760
once 1/4 at head office. 
I was such a teacher's pet, like

778
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,440
the other managers must have 
hated me. 

779
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:08,200
But I also made sure that when 
I'd walk into the boardroom, I'd

780
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,840
always sit in the chair by the 
front, by the front entrance. 

781
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,520
And the reason I did that was 
that the MD would always sit 

782
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,560
right next to it. 
And I knew you don't want to be 

783
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,160
in the design line if you're 90°
left or right. 

784
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,040
If he's having a bad day, you're
probably not in the firing line.

785
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,880
But he'd go around the room 
being like, so how are we 

786
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,320
getting on with the choir 
magazines? 

787
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,200
And the managers would go, yeah,
they're really shit. 

788
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,720
Don't get anything from them. 
They go, that's interesting 

789
00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:34,760
because all the freaking boxes 
are still downstairs and one 

790
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,000
person's taking the boxes away 
and that's Simon. 

791
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,800
And who's the person who's in 
profit every year, Simon. 

792
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:41,520
So he's delivering the 
magazines. 

793
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:43,840
So true and you know you can't 
kill a kidder. 

794
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,000
That gentleman or lady would 
have got to their position 

795
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,280
through experience and they know
that if you get the tools, I 

796
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,520
mean, it's like going down. 
There's an old joke, isn't it, 

797
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,280
which is I joined the gym six 
months ago and I haven't lost 

798
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,240
weight or put on any muscle. 
I'm going down in person for the

799
00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:00,720
first time to see what's 
happening. 

800
00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:05,880
Yeah, yeah, it's so true. 
Yeah, very true. 

801
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,800
On the, what did you call it 
over indexing? 

802
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,960
Over indexing, yeah. 
Yeah, I love that. 

803
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:17,400
So when you were sort of telling
that example, I think the last 

804
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,240
Property Academy home moving 
trend survey or whatever it's 

805
00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:25,360
called highlighted that 76% of 
people surveyed said they didn't

806
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,040
put their property on the market
for sale until they found 

807
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,280
somewhere to buy. 
Yeah. 

808
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,240
Now most agents, we know their 
marketing will be along lines of

809
00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:36,880
free valuation. 
We need more houses to sell, but

810
00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:39,880
work your buyers because how 
many buyers are typically going 

811
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,760
to be local? 
I appreciate all vary around the

812
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,240
country and then double bubble. 
If you do a good job in helping 

813
00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:47,840
find somewhere, they're probably
going to sell for you or. 

814
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:49,920
I've got, I've got a push back 
on that. 

815
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:51,880
This is the line, I promise you 
that. 

816
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,040
We used to say in my business a 
lot if you would, if you, if we 

817
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:56,800
were doing a role play now and 
you'd say, yeah, I'm not going 

818
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,840
to get a valuation because I 
want to, but find somewhere 

819
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,280
first. 
I would say, Simon, can I just 

820
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:05,000
tell you what I've heard and 
you'll say, yes, I'll say right.

821
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:09,040
What I've just heard is I want 
to pay the full asking price for

822
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,400
the house I fall in love with, 
but I want to undersell my home.

823
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,960
Yeah, love that. 
And you'll say no, no, no, 

824
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,000
that's not what I said. 
And I'll say, well, after 25 

825
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,000
years of experience in this 
industry, unfortunately it's 

826
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,000
what you have said, you just 
don't realise you've said it. 

827
00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:27,600
I and I absolutely love that and
I'm, I'm not disputing that for 

828
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,640
a second. 
I think it's crazy how backwards

829
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,440
we do things in this country. 
But if we know how most buyers 

830
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,520
think and get in a conversation 
with them about what they're 

831
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,080
looking for and then drop that 
absolute golden nugget for them 

832
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,720
to go, holy shit, Ian's right. 
I wouldn't be paying an 

833
00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:46,640
understanding. 
You just didn't say, listen, 

834
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,920
this is what's going to happen. 
You're invariably going to find 

835
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:50,760
a house through me because I'm 
market leader, right? 

836
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,840
I, I work for the seller then 
and I'm going to say to you that

837
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,560
you need to offer full asking 
price to secure it. 

838
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:58,440
You're then going to put your 
house on the market and you'll 

839
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,200
come to me because I sell more 
houses. 

840
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,600
And I'm then going to say we 
need to be lean on price to get 

841
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,080
it sold quickly because I've got
five more viewings on the one 

842
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,760
that you want to go for, put 
your house on the market. 

843
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,240
We can even test the price by a 
few percentage points if we want

844
00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:13,960
to. 
And you into any offers that 

845
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,800
come in, you accept it subject 
to finding a house. 

846
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:18,880
We send out holder holding 
letters. 

847
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,000
We don't instruct solicitors 
until you've found something. 

848
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,800
There's zero cost to you. 
That's how we used to do it. 

849
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,880
And I'm, I'm a fully fledged 
signed up member to that 

850
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,480
complete completely agree with 
it. 

851
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:36,360
I just, I again, going back to 
the over indexing of I think the

852
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,920
point we're trying to get at in 
terms of I don't know if it's 

853
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,560
the right language, but you 
might is it lose the battle but 

854
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,800
win the war. 
So like, OK, well, the other 

855
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,760
agents got that listing and 
they've gone and bought it. 

856
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:50,520
I've not earned a fee. 
So I've lost the battle, but I'm

857
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,800
going to win the war because 
I've over indexed them. 

858
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,320
I've done such an amazing job. 
They're now going to sell 

859
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,680
through me. 
So I've I've got, I had a 

860
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,640
conversation with an agent the 
other day and this happens quite

861
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,360
frequently where they're like 
Simon, I go and have a 

862
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,080
conversation with Mr. McKenzie, 
who's on the market with another

863
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,120
agent. 
Poor marketing, too much money. 

864
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,720
But if I tell him what he needs 
to hear, he'll go straight back 

865
00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:16,240
to his agent, his agent will 
implement it, they'll sell it 

866
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:17,760
and then I'll lose out on the 
business. 

867
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,720
And I'll be interested to get 
your opinion on this because I'm

868
00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:22,760
like, well one, you didn't have 
the business in the 1st place, 

869
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,000
not yours to lose. 
Might lose the battle, but 

870
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:27,680
you'll win the war because 
whilst you might not get 

871
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,800
commissioned that time round, 
they're then going to rave about

872
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,080
you to friends, family and work 
colleagues because it was your 

873
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,000
advice that got themselves. 
You might not have got the 

874
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,520
Commission this time around, but
you'll get it further down the 

875
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:38,640
line. 
They'll come back to you in the 

876
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,520
future, but I would say that 
most often you'll give that 

877
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:46,320
advice to the owner. 
The estate agent who already has

878
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,640
a listing is probably not going 
to implement it because if 

879
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,440
they're going to implement it, 
it probably would have done. 

880
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,040
You might lose the odd one, but 
I think that you're not looking 

881
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,200
at the bigger picture. 
Yeah, I think there's also the 

882
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:57,720
social proofing that comes with 
it. 

883
00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:01,560
So there's, if you've got a 
house that's overpriced, not 

884
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,200
selling that is affecting your 
ability to bring the next 5 

885
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,600
houses in the same St. on at the
right price because they'll see 

886
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,640
that one at more money and say, 
well, they went to the money for

887
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:12,960
that. 
So I wanted to try it that 

888
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,280
whereas actually, if you can, if
we could all it, you know, if 

889
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,560
there was, I often said in, in a
declining marketplace, and we're

890
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,120
not in a declining marketplace 
for the, for the purposes of 

891
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,200
clarity where we are today. 
But when, when the market was 

892
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,320
very tough, I used to say, if 
there was an active government 

893
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,800
that said that every house price
asking price had to drop by 20% 

894
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,520
overnight, the housing market 
would be stimulated again. 

895
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,080
And, and that's probably where 
we are at the moment is how 

896
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,680
trained are the, the teams, the 
people that are listening at 

897
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,560
this are actually talking about 
price corrections. 

898
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,800
And, and it glinks back to it's,
it's like Hansel and Gretel 

899
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,200
dropping the sweeties on the 
pathway so they could find their

900
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,000
way home. 
How you position the valuation, 

901
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,040
the price of time evaluation, 
how you articulate the service, 

902
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,120
how you factor in revisits after
four weeks, all those sorts of 

903
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,400
things. 
Those that have done that are 

904
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,640
having a really good time now. 
Those that are on evaluation, 

905
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,600
pin in the tail on the donkey 
and using language like will 

906
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:18,120
definitely get this price for it
are not maybe having such a good

907
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,360
time. 
Yeah, and it's scary how 

908
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,520
accurate that language is in 
terms. 

909
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,960
Of what it really is, yeah. 
And again lines. 

910
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,960
So Connells have said that 
they'll sell it quickly for you.

911
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:31,480
Yes. 
Why have they off? 

912
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,600
Why have they said that they 
need a 26 week contract? 

913
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:35,680
Do you think it contradicts 
itself? 

914
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,040
And the other thing is why would
you want to sell your most 

915
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,320
expensive asset quickly? 
Surely you want to take a bit, a

916
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,240
little bit of time and get the 
right price for it, for it, 

917
00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:46,320
don't you? 
Love that dropping absolute 

918
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,040
golden Nuggets here. 
And I knew you were that's why I

919
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,720
wanted you on. 
So you mentioned about not being

920
00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:53,600
in a declining market. 
So as I said earlier, recording 

921
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,920
this at the end of June, I mean,
the news is always busy, whether

922
00:45:57,920 --> 00:45:59,800
it's there's always been going 
on. 

923
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,640
Obviously at the time of 
recording, Keir Starmer has 

924
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,080
recently resigned. 
Andy Burnham is a clear front 

925
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:09,080
runner to to the next PM. 
So what do we think in terms of 

926
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,360
political environment and what 
that means for a property market

927
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:12,440
moving forward? 
Right. 

928
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,720
So the, the one of the early 
bits of advice I had was you 

929
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:20,720
can't but the trend. 
So actually that trend in the 

930
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:22,080
economy is a trend in the 
economy. 

931
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,400
You just got to adapt your style
to actually, you know, mitigate 

932
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:31,000
those stormy waters. 
And so it is understanding 

933
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,600
what's going on in your 
marketplace and then being able 

934
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,560
to articulate and communicate 
the right advice. 

935
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,200
And the bit that's really 
important with this is that are 

936
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,320
you allowed to swear on this 
podcast? 

937
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,080
I've already sworn several 
times, so yeah. 

938
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,880
I can remember a negotiator of 
mine many years ago who said to 

939
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,520
a first time buyer, Dave, we're 
men of the world, aren't we? 

940
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,040
And he said, yes, Tony, His name
was Tony. 

941
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,280
Tony McGee. 
Hi, Tony, if you're listening, 

942
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,560
yes, Tony, we are, He said, 
good. 

943
00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:59,080
Are you going to buy this 
fucking house or not? 

944
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:02,840
And they did it in the office 
and I pulled him out of the 

945
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:04,120
back, said you can't behave like
that. 

946
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,840
He said I've been out with him 
for two hours, He swears all the

947
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:08,800
time. 
I was mirroring his behaviour 

948
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:11,920
and it worked. 
So the point I'm making is that 

949
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,120
depending on where you are in 
the UK, use the right language. 

950
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,280
So if I were to go to some parts
of the UK, I'd sound like a posh

951
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,400
twat and I wouldn't get, you 
know, that I wouldn't do so 

952
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,280
well. 
But actually what I would really

953
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,880
do is, is adapt my style to use 
the language that mirror the 

954
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,000
behaviour. 
So find the right words that you

955
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,560
need to deliver to explain the 
market conditions to the people 

956
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,000
in your towns is the point I'm 
making. 

957
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:38,120
Second thing is that you need to
have the right fight story for 

958
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,120
sellers and maybe a different 
fight story for buyers to get 

959
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,440
them to influence them 
positively to come up with the 

960
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,120
right result. 
So interestingly, both my 

961
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:48,960
children are buying a house at 
the moment. 

962
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,760
One Lily's just agreed it 
yesterday in Twyford, just 

963
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,680
outside Winchester and Neve is 
buying a flat in London and the 

964
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:02,560
flat in London the lady pulled 
out after a month, which is just

965
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,400
really annoying because sadly 
she's not very well and she 

966
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,240
can't sell at the moment, but 
she needs to sell before the tax

967
00:48:08,240 --> 00:48:12,520
year next year. 
So I Neve called me up and said 

968
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,000
so like the that they called it 
for the price, don't they? 

969
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,200
And I said, right, get the agent
to say this to the seller. 

970
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,520
Keir Starmer just resigned. 
It's odds on that that Andy 

971
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,280
Burnham's going to come in. 
If I were Andy Burnham, I'd call

972
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,800
a general election personally, 
because I'd want to get. 

973
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,680
He hasn't tarnished his 
reputation and he needs a five 

974
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,760
year mandate. 
He's only got 2 1/2 years left, 

975
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,040
Right. 
So the market's going to go 

976
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:39,400
through political instability. 
And that what happens if general

977
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,240
elections are caused is that the
invariably data shows us that 

978
00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:44,160
the housing market treads water 
for a time. 

979
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,760
Yeah, you need to sell your 
flat, Mrs. Megan's and you need 

980
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:52,000
to be out by by April next year.
That means you could have got 

981
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,840
effectively with the average 
convincing time frame for a flat

982
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,840
in London, you've got three 
months to find a buyer, but it's

983
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,360
just taking you 6 months to find
a buyer. 

984
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,320
So I don't even know why you're 
thinking of pulling out. 

985
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,920
That's the first thing. 
Second thing is, is that Andy, 

986
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,880
if Andy Burnham gets in, he's 
going to do a land tax, he's 

987
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,320
going to, he's going to tax, you
know, potentially, we don't 

988
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:14,080
know, but potentially tax higher
value properties, etcetera. 

989
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,520
So what do you think is going to
happen to flats in London if 

990
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,200
that happens? 
Do you think there'll be more 

991
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,680
supply or less supply more 
great? 

992
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,360
What do you think is going to 
happen to prices as a 

993
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,800
consequence of that? 
And, you know, I gave this 

994
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,920
advice to Navy and then dictated
it all into ChatGPT and it put 

995
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,720
it into bullet points for me. 
And she delivered it to the to 

996
00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:35,720
the agent and we haven't heard 
back yet in fairness. 

997
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,680
But who knows, maybe, maybe the 
lady will see Sanson sell to 

998
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:43,040
her. 
So you, you said earlier in the 

999
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:47,960
conversation around let's say 
it's going to be one 

1000
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,920
1,000,051.1, whatever 
transactions there's going to be

1001
00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:58,160
this year. 
Yeah, how, how, how many, what 

1002
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,160
percentage higher transaction 
levels are just sat out there 

1003
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:06,040
waiting to happen, right. 
Just by agents being really well

1004
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:08,760
trained and having those 
conversations and everything 

1005
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:10,560
you've been discussing 
throughout the podcast. 

1006
00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:13,560
It's a great question. 
Here's here's again, going back 

1007
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,160
to go forward. 
How good are agents in today's 

1008
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,080
world are actually dealing with 
passive applicants, Those those 

1009
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,400
people that didn't that don't 
intend to move but then end up 

1010
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,160
moving. 
I think that that's the 

1011
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:29,720
marketplace that's eroded with 
probably with the portals, 

1012
00:50:29,720 --> 00:50:32,240
because in the olden days you'd 
get the paper on a Thursday or 

1013
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:35,240
you'd see it for sale board. 
Now you have to go to all the 

1014
00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:36,880
behave. 
Current behaviour is that you go

1015
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,240
to a portal to actively look or 
the you're active, you're not 

1016
00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:44,200
passive. 
And so I always used to roughly 

1017
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,800
work out the data that 20% of my
house sales were people that 

1018
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:51,200
just saw something and moved to 
passive applicants. 

1019
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,400
So I reckon there's a good 20% 
in the, I reckon there's good. 

1020
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,320
So Rory Sutherland. 
I love Rory Sutherland, by the 

1021
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:02,400
way. 
Again, I he said that I saw him 

1022
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,240
give this speech at the final 
country conference. 

1023
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:08,920
He said I was at, he said hands 
up, who is trying to sell their 

1024
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,640
house at the moment? 
And he said and about 5% of the 

1025
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,720
room put their hands up. 
He said hands up who would sell 

1026
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:16,480
their house if the right price 
came in. 

1027
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,280
And he said more than 50% put 
the house their hands up. 

1028
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:21,560
Yeah. 
That says everything doesn't. 

1029
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,200
It yeah, there's, yeah, there 
are. 

1030
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:25,680
There's so many opportunities 
out there. 

1031
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,280
There's images I use in 
presentations. 

1032
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,880
I do research from Zoopa and 
right move in terms of the 

1033
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,440
mindset of, of an audience 
that's not just those on those 

1034
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,000
portals. 
And you'll find that there is 

1035
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,120
that high percentage who if a 
price was right or if they could

1036
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,600
find their dream home, yeah, 
they, they would make a move. 

1037
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:47,800
And there's, there's a few 
different Tik Toks out there of 

1038
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,320
Rory Sutherland talking about 
the property market. 

1039
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:57,080
There's ones he uses Alan Sugar 
as an example, where Alan Sugar,

1040
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,320
obviously very famous man, very,
very wealthy, very powerful. 

1041
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,320
He literally did some 
handwritten letters to a street 

1042
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,120
he wanted to live in, in 
Chigwell saying I want to buy 

1043
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:07,920
your house, ring me if you're 
interested. 

1044
00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:10,000
And it results in buying his 
house. 

1045
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,440
Well, that that was passive. 
They weren't on the market. 

1046
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,520
Someone didn't wake up that day 
going I want to sell my house 

1047
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:17,680
today. 
A letter came through the door 

1048
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:19,640
and went, do you know if we 
could get the right price? 

1049
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,120
Yeah, right. 
Coming towards the end of the 

1050
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:24,680
podcast. 
So I have a closing tradition, 

1051
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,040
which we'll come to in a second.
But before that, I've got this 

1052
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,680
crazy puzzle, Ian, that my 
girlfriend Louise brought back 

1053
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,680
from a business trip. 
And it is called Impossible 

1054
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,520
Decisions, the little game of 
big choices. 

1055
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:44,680
Oh, OK, I'm going to give you 
some random questions, right. 

1056
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:49,480
Would you rather be constantly 
gossiped about or never talked 

1057
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:53,920
about at all? 
Never talked about at all. 

1058
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,560
OK. 
Would you have more commercial 

1059
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,680
advantage by by having that? 
OK, nice. 

1060
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:04,080
Interesting. 
Would you rather be able to make

1061
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:09,400
an imaginary thing real by 
drawing it, or make a real thing

1062
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:15,360
disappear by erasing it? 
Imaginary thing real by drawing 

1063
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:16,760
it. 
OK. 

1064
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:21,400
And would that be drawing Virgil
Van Dyke lift in the Champions 

1065
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:23,680
League in the Premier? 
League, yeah. 

1066
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,120
Quadruple, yeah. 
Right, final one on this before 

1067
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,240
the last question. 
Would you rather let your 

1068
00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:34,560
parents read your secret diary 
or have to read the secret diary

1069
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:36,480
belonging to one of your 
parents? 

1070
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,960
Oh bloody hell. 
God, I'd read mine. 

1071
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,040
I'd I'd be in distress reading 
this. 

1072
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:46,440
Right. 
OK. 

1073
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,480
So final question for you. 
In my closing tradition, I've 

1074
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,000
completely ripped off from 
Stephen Bartlett's podcast. 

1075
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,800
He gets the last guest asked, 
the next guest question not 

1076
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,800
knowing who they are, and then 
he very cleverly monetizes it 

1077
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,360
into his conversation cards. 
So I'm going to get you to 

1078
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:02,960
answer one of these random. 
Questions. 

1079
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,960
OK, Yeah. 
So the question I want you to 

1080
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,280
answer and no pressure because 
it's been a brilliant 

1081
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,080
conversation. 
So you need to end it on a high.

1082
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:16,960
OK, what is the craziest idea 
you have ever had that turned 

1083
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:20,720
out to be right? 
Blimey, the craziest idea. 

1084
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:30,520
I could give you a flippant 
answer that my, my, the lady 

1085
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,120
that I went out to the to the 
bar and asked for a drink would 

1086
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:35,960
find me attractive and marry me,
probably. 

1087
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:38,600
Thank you. 
Thank you, Nicola, for doing 

1088
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,760
that. 
But that's a, that's a flipping 

1089
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:46,560
1A crazy idea. 
I'm going to answer it in a very

1090
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,880
strange way. 
I think that actually, if you've

1091
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:54,880
considered the stance, you've, 
you've looked at the 

1092
00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:59,040
possibilities of an idea and 
rather than it being just an 

1093
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:03,080
idea, you've actually had some 
substance behind it with some 

1094
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:07,200
data where possible or a belief 
and you really believe yourself 

1095
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,800
and then you do everything that 
you can to make it happen. 

1096
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,400
I don't think there is such a 
thing as a crazy idea. 

1097
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:14,440
I think that there is a business
plan that you just call it 

1098
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,600
something else. 
Yeah, I love that. 

1099
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,840
There's never a bad time to 
start a good business, and 

1100
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,880
there's never a good time to 
start a bad business. 

1101
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,400
Correct. 
Love it, right? 

1102
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,680
For everyone at home listening, 
remember to like review, 

1103
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,600
subscribe, follow, share. 
It's been an amazing 

1104
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:33,120
conversation, Ian, and that just
leaves me safe. 

1105
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:34,760
Thank you very much for being an
amazing guest. 

1106
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:36,480
I appreciate it. 
I've really enjoyed it. 

1107
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:37,880
It's been brilliant. 
Thank you so much.