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Hello and welcome to Open Gates 
to more listings for Estate 

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agents with me, Simon Gates. 
I'm delighted to be joined today

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by Mr. Simon Ledbetter. 
Simon, thank you very much for 

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joining me. 
Thank you for the invite, good 

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to talk to you again. 
You're very welcome. 

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I should just have that as the 
automated intro to this podcast.

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You might, you bloody appear on 
it these days. 

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The entire plan behind the voice
of the agent was to appear on 

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Open the Gates as many times as 
possible. 

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Yeah, well, it's that certainly 
working. 

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And anyone who just heard a 
crash, that was me knocking over

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my microphone because I'm so 
excited to have this 

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conversation. 
Right. 

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OK, Where are we? 
So for those of you playing 

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along at home, we are starting 
on page 22. 

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So how capable would you say you
are in navigating new technology

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product, products, should I say,
and services? 

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Which one of the following 
statements best describes you? 

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So we've got the great British 
public and then we've got real 

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estate professionals. 
Yeah. 

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That's the one. 
I've got an opinion on this from

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some recent conversations that 
I've had, but I'm curious to 

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find out what you make of that 
before I share. 

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Yeah, I thought it was really 
interesting and actually he goes

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quite nicely into page 23. 
We'll talk a little bit. 

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He's actually put the two bits 
of data together. 

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You guys been tracking this data
for yonks and I thought actually

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as this report is about tech and
AI and I talk at length on 30 

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years of marketing one day about
the adoption or diffusion of 

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innovation. 
How how how tech savvy, how tech

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adopting is a certain different 
target market. 

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We all get very excited by the 
new and improved, but not 

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everyone is excited about the 
new and improved. 

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People quite like the status 
quo. 

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So I just want to understand 
where real estate people sat on 

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that spectrum. 
And I think we kind of 

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summarized it really well. 
My writer, when he put it down, 

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was this is an industry that 
will adopt, but rarely first and

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rarely without proof. 
So I've witnessed in the last 10

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years, we're an industry more 
sinned against than sinning in 

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the sense that we have 
technology innovation slightly 

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pushed upon us. 
There are some early adopters, 

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there's some innovators and they
often leading the pack. 

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And the data says, you know, if 
you adopt technology early, 

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you've got an advantage. 
But genuine as industry, we seem

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to be a bit resistant and 
hesitant about it. 

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And that's borne out in the data
in terms of, you know, we're not

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in the laggards generally, I'm 
not very interested in nor do I 

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buy new technology. 
You know, we're slightly better 

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than the population whole, but 
we're big in the next group. 

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I am not usually one of the 
first to be interested. 

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So we kind of we're followers, 
We're not leaders as an 

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industry. 
Obviously there's exceptions to 

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the rules, individuals, which is
kind of interesting for an 

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industry where prop tech is such
prop tech has been such a big 

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noise for so long. 
So yeah, what's your theory? 

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But the reason I, I asked you to
explain the findings from, from 

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the the survey was that the 
conversations I've been having, 

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let me, let me start that again.
The amount of conversations 

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within this industry at the 
moment, you cannot finish a 

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sentence without AI like it is 
everywhere. 

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And it's actually mad that I we 
can say that this industry can 

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be behind the curve when it 
comes to other industries being 

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innovative and maybe being a bit
further forward with tech. 

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We talk about UK estate agency 
perhaps being 5-10 years behind 

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America or Australia when it 
comes to certain trends. 

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But what I found is that when 
I'm speaking to friends, family 

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members of the public, it seems 
to be estate agents are talking 

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a lot more about AI or using 
AIA, lot more than when I'm just

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having a conversation at a pub, 
for example. 

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So like, I spoke to a business 
owner the other day over the 

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bank holiday weekend, and he's 
like, yeah, like I've used 

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ChatGPT a little bit. 
And I went, all right, you 

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should check out Claude. 
And he's like, what's that? 

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I was like, you've not heard of 
Claude? 

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He's like, no, I was like, how 
much you use AI? 

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He's like, not a lot. 
I was like, would you say that 

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you're using chat a bit like you
use Google? 

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He went, yeah, pretty much. 
And that that is kind of a lot 

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of what I've I've found. 
So that is just me, anecdotal 

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rather than actually, you know, 
surveying hundreds or thousands 

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of people. 
But I just found it interesting.

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Yeah. 
I mean, I think it is 

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interesting because actually 
we've got the hard data in this 

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rule. 
We'll come on to it. 

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It kind of surprised me. 
We talked about it last time and

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it's the suspicion that Heather 
Stafford had from Street and I 

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had had is we were sampling as 
best we could, but we might be 

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sampling slightly a more tech 
savvy tech adopting, adopting 

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audience. 
So this is where we did the 

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methodology. 
We actually did a completely 

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random sampling of several 100 
estate agents, see where they 

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sat, and a staggering number of 
them aren't using AI at all. 

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And that surprised me. 
I thought it pretty much 

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everyone will be using it in a 
little bit. 

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And that's what the research 
sort of bore out yesterday is 

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we'd seen a growth, but the 
growth was amongst those people 

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who are generally doing it. 
What we actually saw was a 

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significant number of people, 
just under half literally just 

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aren't using it. 
Meanwhile, we measure the data 

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back in September last year for 
homeowners and we saw depending 

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on where you were on the 
property journey between 1 and 

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3%, one and 3 1/2%, I think it 
was we're using AI to help them 

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in the process. 
That's gone up to 38%. 

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Wow, OK. 
So we were kind of expect when 

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we reported it and we had you 
Gov there and talked at the 

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Voice of the Agent conference 
last year. 

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We looked at the numbers and 
they were suddenly within the 

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next 12 months, this is going to
be big, this is going to be 

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rapid growth. 
We didn't see rapid growth, we 

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saw exponential growth. 
So it's really interesting how 

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this is happening is I think 
we're seeing a great divide. 

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We've probably always had that 
divide. 

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There are the tech adopters, the
AI users and there is the rest. 

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And while we're in industry 
where we're slightly insulated, 

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I think against how tech effects
industries, you can be a good 

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agent and be really quite in the
general word traditional. 

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We'll start to see as the next 
generation of home movers moves 

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into the market, a divide. 
I'm actually working on a 

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project helping business exit at
the moment with an American 

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friend of mine, and we're seeing
a large flood of businesses 

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where you've got the baby 
boomers or early Gen. 

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X's exiting because they've been
through the Internet social 

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media chain. 
They don't want to do another 

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one. 
So it's get out before the shift

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happens because AI is going to 
change everything and it, it 

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literally is going to change 
everything. 

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And if you don't think that's 
going to happen, you need to go 

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look at history and sort of look
at something called the 

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Industrial Revolution and what 
it did, because that's kind of 

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the shift we're living in. 
Biggest. 

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So I guess with what you just 
said there on AI, is it going to

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speed up the biggest 
transference of wealth we've 

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ever seen? 
Yes, absolutely. 

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It's it's smashing up any 
existing model. 

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And you know, I was actually 
writing an article for someone 

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the other day. 
And the top naughty point, 1% in

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the world is richer than they 
have ever been in the entire 

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history of human civilization 
and by some distance. 

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And we're about to see that 
happen even more. 

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Yeah. 
Great, happy times. 

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So on a couple of things you 
said there, the great divide, 

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you said, I found that 
interesting because I couldn't 

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help but think. 
And when you were talking about 

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the great divide, and I don't 
know if I've shared this with 

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you before, if it's been on the 
podcast, but this must be a year

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ago. 
I was up in Cheshire, the fancy 

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golden triangle part of Cheshire
for all this country. 

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And I needed to get some petrol 
on on the way home. 

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And I was like, well, I'm not 
going to pay the extortion 

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amounts, you know, down the 
service station route, I'm sure 

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there's somewhere nearby. 
And I just go onto my SAT NAV, 

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find a petrol station and I pull
up. 

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Have I told you this before? 
No no, but I I I've literally 

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just done it recently for EV 
charging one. 

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Right, so I so I pull up at this
petrol station and it felt like 

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I was in the Outback in 
Australia or like AI don't know,

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a 1950s American film or 
something. 

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And I I'm just get out my car 
and this guy sort of comes 

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towards me. 
It's like kind of help you. 

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I was like, yeah, I'm just thing
not with petrol. 

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He went, how much do you want? 
I was like, this is this is 

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really weird. 
I was like, oh, wow, I'm going 

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to get a full tank. 
He went, yeah, brilliant. 

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OK, if you go and wait inside 
the office and I'll get that 

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sorted for you. 
I went all right, OK. 

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Walked into your office. 
He had like a proper old school 

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radio playing with like talk 
sport. 

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And then he came back in and he 
said, right, that's however much

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it was and go to pay, Apple Pay.
He's like, Oh no, we don't, we 

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don't do any of that. 
So that was the great divide in 

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in what I'm saying is that I'm 
sure there are plenty of certain

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people who love going to that 
petrol station and going all 

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right, John, how you doing mate?
Yeah, fill the tank up, pay in 

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cash, whatever, but and then 
you've got the other person who 

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goes, I want to go to pay at the
pump and then Apple Pay, Bing, 

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there you go. 
Don't have to talk to a human 

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being or go even further where 
you're talking about electric 

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side of things. 
It's kind of I think I just 

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thought that was a real life 
example of that great divide 

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that I experienced myself. 
Yeah, I think what we, what we 

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miss, I think, you know, if 
you're kind of like, you know, 

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you're in a nice, not in a nice 
way. 

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You're in the more cutting edge 
crew because you're talking to 

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everyone, you're speaking to all
the great thinkers and we have 

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to kind of sort of immunise 
ourself against this is the 

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people we're speaking to are not
representative. 

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Yeah, because if you look at 
page 23 and we'll get on to it, 

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but it's interesting how you, if
you divide the population up 

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between what is tech literacy 
and there's 3 levels, the 

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struggle to learn, the OK to 
learn and the quick to learn and

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the adoption attitudes. 
There's 4 levels. 1st to buy 

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interested, but wait, wait until
others not interest. 

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Do not buy 65%, what we call the
red group bear the divide. 

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That's not moving with the 
times, but it's a much smaller 

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group. 
You know what is that? 

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That's 1920 percent. 20% are OK 
to learn and they're adopting, 

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but only 2% are in the top 
extreme of quick learn and 1st 

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to buy. 
So if you've got a new prop tech

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out there, you've got to 
consider that 65% of your 

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audience is they wait and they 
struggle to learn. 

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So you've got to kind of build 
technology that is very easy to 

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use, you know, really, really 
easy to use if you want the 

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majority. 
But also, you need to find a way

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to get those early adopters to 
be your advocates to the people 

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who are going to follow. 
I think for any for any sorry to

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cut across your time for any 
project, any prop tech companies

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or people working in prop tech 
company listening to this right 

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now. 
You need to rewind and just kind

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of hear the last 36 seconds of 
what Simons said there. 

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Find those quick learners early 
to adopt, interested to buy, get

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them using it and then get them 
to tell their friends and then 

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see it go on from there. 
And I couldn't help but think of

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my own experience, particularly 
in home search days of how 

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powerful that was when we were 
really early doors and 

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penetrating the right sort of 
market and then that leading on 

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to others. 
So, very quick example, Sam 

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Hunter knew exactly what he's 
doing when he approached people 

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like Perry Power. 
Yes. 

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Very early adopter innovator 
started using it, told loads of 

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people, others followed. 
And that's the good thing about 

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this industry. 
There's some really good 

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advocates for the industry who 
will adopt A technology. 

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Perry is an amazing example of 
that. 

225
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:18,040
People like David Adams up in 
Avendish, but you know, also, 

226
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,040
you know, pundits and rent a 
gobs. 

227
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:26,600
You, me, Christopher Watkin, 
others out there, if we like it,

228
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,600
we'll talk about it. 
No, we don't tend to. 

229
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,200
We won't recommend stuff that's 
rubbish and tells you. 

230
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,400
I get approached by a load of 
tech companies and I kind of go,

231
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:43,120
yes, right, I can see what it 
does, but I know what you need 

232
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,040
to do this industry, which is 
it's got to be as easy as an 

233
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:52,040
iPhone. 
And I've literally just 24 hours

234
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:57,120
ago released my weekly journal 
for I Produce on sub Stack. 

235
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:02,640
And I said in there, I've just 
started using a platform website

236
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,040
basically called Review Extra 
and basically gets all your 

237
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,760
reviews from Google, notifies 
you by e-mail. 

238
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,160
When you get a review, you click
on it and then it produces an 

239
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,560
infographic that you can share 
straight away on social media. 

240
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:19,280
It's so easy to use. 
And then I've gone on to my 

241
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,080
journal and said to estate 
agents, you should look at this,

242
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,240
which again is just reiterating 
what you've just been saying. 

243
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:26,360
Yeah, you know, there's, there's
people who have basically, I 

244
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,800
mean, it's not a present term, 
but idea virus people is. 

245
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,240
We're propagators of ideas. 
So if we see something good, 

246
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,080
we'll share it. 
And it takes. 

247
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,320
And there's a great video I've 
just shared actually on LinkedIn

248
00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:40,320
about how network effects 
happen. 

249
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,200
They've got 2 balls bouncing 
around a circle and every time 

250
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,480
the balls hit, another one 
spawns. 

251
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,760
So nothing happens for ages. 
You've got to watch this with a 

252
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:50,480
lot of places. 
They're bouncing around, the 

253
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,240
thing going come on, hit each 
other, then because each other, 

254
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,000
the first time another one 
appears and the time between 

255
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,920
that one and the next one. 
So he gets very sore there and 

256
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,240
within seconds it goes and fills
the screen. 

257
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,280
And it's that network effect of 
finding people who are the 

258
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,960
connectors, the people who sell,
sorry, the salespeople who are 

259
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,440
out there and wanting out. 
Malcolm Gladwell called the 

260
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,480
mavens, the ones who go out and 
share the ideas. 

261
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,600
OK, Yeah. 
So you need different types of 

262
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,240
people out there to kind of help
you. 

263
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,120
But if you are a tech company, 
bear in mind that you need to 

264
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,720
find the one in 50 who are quick
learners and 1st to buy. 

265
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,360
Nice thing as I have a really 
detailed profile of who they are

266
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,640
and you just need to find them 
and talk to them because they're

267
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,600
the ones who it's Everett 
Rogers, the diffusion of 

268
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,960
innovation curve. 
You need to find the innovators 

269
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,560
to get to the early majority. 
So the early adopters, the early

270
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,480
majority, late majority. 
Then finally we're in that 7% 

271
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:47,880
who struggle to learn and not 
interested. 

272
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:52,800
Do not buy who are nicely called
the laggards, and they'll come 

273
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,720
at the end, very end, probably 
the time you've moved on to the 

274
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,520
next generation of something 
else entirely. 

275
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:00,960
Yeah. 
Very true. 

276
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,920
So page 24, so not moving on 
very far. 

277
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,120
That was a a long instruction. 
Now on the first page and 

278
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,200
classic 2 Simons. 
Oh dear. 

279
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,320
Hype cycles, yes. 
So I think kind of this is a 

280
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,040
obviously where it's positioned 
in the report it it's a nice add

281
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:20,520
on to what we've just been 
discussing. 

282
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,600
But for those who are not 
playing along at home, if you're

283
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,360
out walking, the dogs are in the
car, whatever and can't see this

284
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,920
report, can you just talk 
through the hype cycles? 

285
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,000
So I think it's really 
interesting. 

286
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,560
Yeah, so Gartner, they do great 
reports Gartner. 

287
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:35,760
Well, they kind of developed, I 
forget when it was, but this 

288
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,800
thing called the Hype Cycle. 
We're seeing these waves of 

289
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,840
technology coming out and what 
happens is a new technology 

290
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,600
triggers. 
If you can read this, great. 

291
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,800
If you can't, I'll describe. 
It's a very simple graph. 

292
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,280
There's a sudden rise in 
interest, what we call the peak 

293
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,240
of inflated expectations. 
So we get a sudden rise up to 

294
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,760
this mass aspeak. 
So every this new AI can do 

295
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,360
everything or the new technology
can do everything. 

296
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,600
And then reality catches up and 
the hype suddenly collapse into 

297
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,920
what's called the through of 
disillusionment. 

298
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:09,960
And this is where reality is. 
And we actually get to where it 

299
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,760
would have been had we not had 
this massive peak of inflated 

300
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,960
expectations. 
We then get the slope of 

301
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,560
enlightenment as we genuinely 
learn how to use this 

302
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,200
technology. 
And then finally it reaches the 

303
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,680
steady state, the plateau of 
productivity. 

304
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,520
Every product, every new tech 
cycle, tech has been through 

305
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,320
this cycle. 
Everything where you know, you 

306
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,760
get the people rushing in, 
those, those innovators and 

307
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:35,040
early adopters rushing and 
going. 

308
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,520
This is amazing. 
Everyone must do it. 

309
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,320
It does everything and then it 
doesn't. 

310
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,000
You know, we're seeing a lot of 
companies who laid off thousands

311
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,240
of people going. 
Let's not keep hiring people 

312
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,600
back now because I realise this 
doesn't work that well. 

313
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:50,640
So you get this through of 
disillusionment. 

314
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:56,600
But reality kits, kits in the 
changes occurred, but the hype 

315
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,920
has made it bigger than it is. 
It doesn't mean ignore the 

316
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:03,320
change. 
It simply says that this, it's, 

317
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,599
it's to be expected. 
We can map it, we can predict 

318
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:06,599
it. 
And there's a great more 

319
00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:08,680
advanced model of this you can 
just find online. 

320
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,040
Do the AI hype cycle. 
And it shows where all the 

321
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,680
different types of AI have 
actually sat now, you know, from

322
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,480
the ones that are out and 
they've now basically just 

323
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,800
entered our, our, our, our 
normal way of living. 

324
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,760
We just don't notice them 
because they're so effective 

325
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,440
versus the ones that are 
generally revolutionary that are

326
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,480
going through a bit of hype. 
But they'll settle as they 

327
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,680
always do. 
And the point is, again, blast 

328
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,080
lines in my these books are 
always where these technologies 

329
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,000
will not fail. 
The challenge is to judge where 

330
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,200
they sit on the curve. 
Are you right and trust you? 

331
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:43,920
Some things, when they go 
through the through of 

332
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,680
disillusionment, actually fail 
at that point. 

333
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,000
Does anyone remember NFTS? 
Yeah. 

334
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:53,520
And how amazing they were going 
to be. 

335
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,600
Now actually, they've entered 
the world in a different way. 

336
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,600
Just as black blockchain 
technology is doing stuff 

337
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,600
outside the whole cryptocurrency
noise, it's doing very clever 

338
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,240
scenes. 
So it's entered the platter of 

339
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,360
productivity. 
But when things enter the 

340
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:12,880
platter of productivity, they 
tend to disappear and we don't 

341
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,120
see them. 
It's fair to say that the 

342
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:19,480
metaverse came to nothing. 
It's like you say on that 

343
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,400
metaverse point there. 
That's an interesting one 

344
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,000
because I remember being 
actually there's an FIA 

345
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:32,080
conference a few years ago and I
was on a panel, I was on a panel

346
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:38,600
with Heather staff actually. 
And I said something along the 

347
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:45,360
lines of technology is amazing, 
but we just need to remember 

348
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:47,800
this is a people business. 
And when you're dealing with 

349
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,680
people's most prized tax free 
asset, most of the time they've 

350
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,680
gone, they're going to want to 
feel like there's someone they 

351
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,440
can go and sit with and have a 
cup of tea and just make sure 

352
00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,440
everything is OK. 
And I said that the best agents 

353
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,360
will still be able to pick up 
the phone and have a 

354
00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:04,960
conversation. 
Now, Heather, I think we're both

355
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:06,320
right. 
And what we said, Heather, was 

356
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,120
like, it's the death of phone 
call. 

357
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,280
Like people are not going to 
pick up the phone. 

358
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:11,880
People are not going to make 
phone calls. 

359
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,440
There's going to be texts, 
etcetera, etcetera. 

360
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,000
But one point that was made from
the audience where a question 

361
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,040
was asked about the metaverse. 
And I, I think I said I ain't 

362
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,320
got a freaking clue about it. 
I have no idea. 

363
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:31,360
And I remember like walking out 
of that going, God, am I missing

364
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:32,960
a trick there? 
That's like God. 

365
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,000
And then you've just mentioned 
it. 

366
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,080
I haven't. 
I don't think I've ever thought 

367
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:42,720
about the metaverse since that 
panel, which was probably 4 

368
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,960
years ago. 
Yeah, I mean, we know we've been

369
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,000
here before. 
Interesting about the telephones

370
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,400
is I was actually with the guys 
at Moneypenny. 

371
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,720
I did some research and I put it
into a presentation I did to 

372
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:59,240
them is the number one channel 
to talk to a company, not to 

373
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:05,680
receive from a company, but to 
talk to them is still fine. 

374
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,720
So while people don't want to, I
think it's some you go present 

375
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,480
some amazing stats at the 
conference about how just people

376
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:14,920
just don't answer the phone 
anymore. 

377
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,240
No one answers the phone. 
But they will use the phone to 

378
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,760
call someone. 
So it's a there's different 

379
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,560
forces happening there. 
Willingness to answer phone near

380
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:31,000
0 desire to use a phone to 
contact the company about 1/3. 

381
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,800
So phones are still valuable. 
Regarding the metaphors, I mean,

382
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,840
I don't need to remember Second 
Life. 

383
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,760
So in the naughties, I'm that 
old, in the naughties when I was

384
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,920
working for a dragon, Dragons 
Den, there's this company raised

385
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,680
a lot of money, I'm sure it's 
called Second Life. 

386
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,440
It was basically a very early 
version of the metaverse, you 

387
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,240
know, and they were selling, you
know, they were doing concerts 

388
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,160
online, they were doing retail 
online. 

389
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,200
You could buy a property. 
It was going to be the next big 

390
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,240
thing and it faded away. 
And then we get the metaverse 

391
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,560
next big thing. 
And then it fades away. 

392
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:11,600
Because the reality, what we've 
actually realised, is meeting 

393
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,040
people in reality, is way nicer 
than spending your entire time 

394
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,800
on a screen. 
And while there'll be a slug of 

395
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,120
the population that likes to do 
things entirely online and 

396
00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:26,520
pretend to be something they're 
not for good or for I'll, the 

397
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,520
vast majority is actually quite 
like going down to the pub on a 

398
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,560
Friday and meeting our mates, or
going to a golf course, or 

399
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,120
climbing into bed with a 
beautiful woman. 

400
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:42,280
You know, these things are far 
better in real life than done 

401
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,560
with a series of ones and zeros 
on. 

402
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:47,520
So yeah. 
So. 

403
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,560
So my view is that you're 100% 
right. 

404
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,080
I even in the next report, the 
one we write about people and 

405
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,760
salary, I say there's an 
alternative to working in a 

406
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,560
state agency. 
There's many alternative jobs to

407
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,040
work in. 
But actually in the coming wave 

408
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:05,120
of innovation with AI, there's 
an aspect of insulation to the 

409
00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:09,080
property industry. 
If you do it right, if you're 

410
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,480
just going to put stuff on a 
portal and pray, thank you Gavin

411
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,000
Swan for giving me that line. 
I'm going to use it 

412
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,120
relentlessly. 
Just put those properties in a 

413
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:17,760
portal and pray you can be 
replaced. 

414
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:21,760
But if you know the art of being
an estate agent or a letting 

415
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,600
agent and you add real value to 
a relationship and can manage 

416
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:30,080
complexity and an incredible 
negotiator, as you say, it's 

417
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,040
your biggest asset. 
And I think people still value 

418
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:34,720
people. 
I, I said to Rome Wall this 

419
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,320
morning, who I caught up with, 
is in a world where everything 

420
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,960
is digital and AI, human beings 
become the vinyl of the future. 

421
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,280
We're more valuable because the 
one thing we have is judgement. 

422
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,920
Algorithms don't have judgement.
I was listening to a podcast 

423
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,440
with Yanis Xarephakis, the 
former Greek finance minister, 

424
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,080
and he was an incredible 
economist, incredible 

425
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,600
mathematician, over and above 
being a finance minister. 

426
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,640
And it's the most economic 
models are broken. 

427
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,440
They don't work. 
Algorithms don't work, none of 

428
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,040
them do. 
None of the things, communism, 

429
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,840
capitalism, all the rules of 
monetarism, none of it works. 

430
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,720
It's all nonsense because it 
pretends the real world doesn't 

431
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,600
exist. 
So what you need is judgement. 

432
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,880
For economies to work, you need 
judgement. 

433
00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:25,080
And that's what you need from 
selling your most expensive 

434
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,200
asset. 
Yes, you can do the square 

435
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,880
footage calculation, but you 
can't get someone who's going to

436
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,960
go, as you say, regularly, and I
know you've heard as well 

437
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,600
elsewhere, is it there's no 
property market, There's a 

438
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,360
market for your property and 
that's a judgement call. 

439
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:42,600
And I'd love what you said as 
well. 

440
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:48,000
Is, is it, is it every 
property's on the market, just 

441
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,840
some of them are more determined
because they happen to be on 

442
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,680
right move and he's got more 
apparent about it. 

443
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,520
But everybody now no AI is going
to do that. 

444
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,400
Yeah, that's an estate agent or 
letting agent skill. 

445
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,040
Anyway, shut me up Simon, 
because I'm just waffle on this 

446
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:02,480
subject. 
There's. 

447
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:05,880
There's, there's loads of 
really, really valuable bits in 

448
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,040
there. 
In terms of a, again, few things

449
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:12,160
you were saying, I think this 
was a phrase coined by Brian 

450
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:13,800
Mansell. 
I heard Brian Mansell say a long

451
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,120
time, well, not a long time ago,
probably a year ago, and he was 

452
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:21,680
talking about AI and he went 
actual intelligence. 

453
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,600
And I, I've sat on a few panels 
recently talking about AI and 

454
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,640
I've been like, you could have 
the best text system, processes,

455
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,480
automation in the world. 
But if I turn up into Mr. 

456
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,800
Ledbetter's living room and he 
thinks I'm a freaking idiot, I'm

457
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,000
not winning that business. 
Someone else could turn up who 

458
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,200
had sent the confirmation letter
in the post, never sent a text 

459
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,240
or an e-mail, didn't have the 
best website, social media or 

460
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,480
automated, but gets in Simon's 
living room and he goes, God, 

461
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,680
what a pleasant chap. 
And he he certainly knows his 

462
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:52,800
onions. 
I'm going to go with him. 

463
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,960
So just wanted to share that. 
And then just you mentioned on 

464
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,720
emails and this would have been 
really good for Part 2. 

465
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,200
I think we. 
Yes, we did get Part 2 channels,

466
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,120
yeah. 
In terms of channels, you've 

467
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:08,200
mentioned about e-mail, and I 
saw a couple of quotes from Tom 

468
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,520
Ferry recently which I wrote 
down. 

469
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,280
I'm probably going to butcher 
them, but one was it's the only 

470
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,720
online media source without an 
algorithm. 

471
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:20,080
You send an e-mail, it goes 
straight to the top of the 

472
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,920
inbox. 
And I was just like. 

473
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,840
That proves Simon's point of why
e-mail is still so powerful in 

474
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,360
this day and age. 
It's a real shame. 

475
00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:32,240
It's got a bad name. 
And I think, yeah, there was a 

476
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,080
lot of spam around it. 
There's a lot of, you know, 

477
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,480
various printers offering 
millions of pounds and all that 

478
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,680
kind of stuff. 
But that all kind of is dealt 

479
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,000
with. 
It's waves of that come through 

480
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,200
and they get dealt with. 
But I just find it interesting 

481
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,560
that it's magic numbers now. 
Part of Analytic Partners has 

482
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:51,720
tracked this since 2004. 
Open rates are flat on e-mail 

483
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,880
since 2004. 
Click rates have increased since

484
00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:00,200
lockdown, so e-mail has become 
more effective than it's ever 

485
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,720
been. 
I've tracked which channel 

486
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,280
people say gets them to buy 
things since 2018. 

487
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,320
When I first got the data it was
about 19% of people said it was 

488
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,400
their channel that drove them to
get activity, get buy to buy 

489
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,320
things. 
Now it's 23%. 

490
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,400
I I would say for myself 
personally, like if I'm 

491
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,240
purchasing something, it's from 
e-mail marketing. 

492
00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:26,800
It's just, you know, you, you 
kind of, you can unsubscribe so 

493
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,960
easily. 
So send an e-mail. 

494
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,480
If people unsubscribe, fine, So 
what? 

495
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,000
They wouldn't have wanted 
yourself anyway. 

496
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,480
But the people who remain 
cherish them because if they're 

497
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,360
receiving your emails and 
they're reading your emails, a 

498
00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:43,800
vast number of them will not act
until they're ready to act. 

499
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,160
And if you remember the 95 five 
rule of the B to B linked 

500
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,080
Institute, 95% of people are not
in the markets at any one point.

501
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,560
Yeah. 
So only 5% of people will be. 

502
00:26:53,960 --> 00:27:00,120
Therefore, if around 5% or fewer
perhaps are clicking on your 

503
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:03,520
emails, hopefully more than 
that, but that's good. 

504
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:07,600
That means the interested people
are clicking on your emails, but

505
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,160
they're all opening it. 
And it's that passive drip. 

506
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,720
Drip feeding good old 
Ebbinghauser's Forgetting Curve 

507
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,120
28 times to see the thing before
you remember it is you just drip

508
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:19,720
feeding your message into 
someone's inbox, into someone's 

509
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,960
consciousness every time. 
And as that guy said, direct to 

510
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,680
the top of the box, direct to 
that person, no other noise. 

511
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,120
Brilliant. 
Direct mail does something 

512
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:37,000
similar in the real world. 
So, you know, these things work 

513
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,400
together and it's it's just 
human behavior. 

514
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,840
It's human nature. 
I like the lines with Guillermo 

515
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,120
del Toro. 
I like actual intelligence. 

516
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,120
I love Guillermo del Toro. 
When he asked, he was asked 

517
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:48,480
about artificial intelligence. 
He had. 

518
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,840
I don't fear artificial 
intelligence. 

519
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,920
I fear natural stupidity. 
Yeah. 

520
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,720
And I agree with that. 
Yeah, very true. 

521
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,400
Just the last bit on on this 
before moving on. 

522
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,040
I have written down in my book 
when it comes to sort of tech 

523
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,200
and AI and I don't know where I 
originally saw this, but first 

524
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,480
comes fear, then comes 
resistance, then comes adoption,

525
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,640
then comes transformation, then 
comes how on earth did we live 

526
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,040
without this? 
Always. 

527
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,000
And that's true of all things. 
That's true of any innovation 

528
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,160
technology to do with marketing 
techniques. 

529
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,200
You know, if you give people 
insight, for example, proper 

530
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,200
market research. 
My problem is I started my 

531
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,840
marketing career in market 
research. 

532
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,640
I can't live without it. 
I need to understand what a 

533
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,200
market is in detail before I 
actually do anything because 

534
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,000
that's how good marketing is 
done. 

535
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,520
But you give someone some 
insight about a market and go, 

536
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,400
this is who your customers 
really are. 

537
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,200
That's what they really think 
and they're like, how do we 

538
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,120
operate before we had that? 
I mean, we've been making so 

539
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,720
many assumptions that are wrong.
It's I love that that that 

540
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,960
taxonomy send me that taxonomy. 
I need that taxonomy of fear 

541
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,760
resistance. 
Bloody come off it now Simon. 

542
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:11,600
Fair resistance. 
Fair resistance adoption. 

543
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,440
Yeah. 
And then there was something 

544
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:15,720
else. 
Then how did we ever live 

545
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,080
without this? 
We need to go. 

546
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:18,920
We need to think of a person in 
the mnemonic for that. 

547
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,080
So it's an easy phrase to 
remember. 

548
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,080
But that, yeah, 100% that's 
that's really, yeah. 

549
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,480
See it everywhere. 
Yeah, that's fair. 

550
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,600
So sorry. 
Fear resistance, adoption, 

551
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,600
transformation. 
How did we live without this I? 

552
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,720
Suppose it's almost like the 
antithesis of the hype cycle, 

553
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:39,520
which is, yeah, over enthusiasm 
followed by epic disappointment 

554
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,880
and disillusionment. 
And yeah, it's same thing, Same 

555
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,480
thing, just a different lens to 
look for and. 

556
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:51,400
Then the going back to like the 
actual intelligence and we've 

557
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,640
talked about tech AI just said 
e-mail. 

558
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,560
You obviously being the 
fantastic marketer you are, but 

559
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,280
then there are just sometimes 
going back to the telephone 

560
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,720
where success is literally like 
there in front of you. 

561
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,920
Yeah, we'll do anything but go 
in for the kill. 

562
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,480
And what I mean by that is I've 
shared something on my Instagram

563
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:18,000
Story earlier today and the 
title was The Sad Truth of Sales

564
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,440
in 2026. 
Sales manager says give the 

565
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,040
prospects a call. 
Sales Rep says I've emailed 

566
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,800
them, Manager replies, be 
quicker to call them though. 

567
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,640
Sales Rep, I've texted them as 
well. 

568
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,160
Manager, surely it's quick. 
It's just call them. 

569
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,560
The Rep, I've added them on 
LinkedIn, the sales manager, 

570
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,480
just give them a bloody call. 
Sales Rep, I'll just send 

571
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,360
another e-mail. 
And that that reminded me of a 

572
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,920
certain generation towards the 
end of my time as an agent, 

573
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,520
where I then said to the guy, I 
was like, he was a Man U fan. 

574
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,280
I was like, imagine, right, you 
had to get hold of this person. 

575
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,080
And when they answer the phone, 
you've got tickets to the 

576
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,800
Champions League final. 
Like, what are you doing? 

577
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,520
Well, I've been freaking calling
them, right. 

578
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,480
Well, at the end of this phone 
call could be a £10,000 

579
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,320
Commission for companies that 
like freaking get on with it. 

580
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,720
Like I, I think with the phone 
thing as well. 

581
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,680
And then we, we do need to move 
on. 

582
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,040
But I had someone message me 
today and I think this is kind 

583
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:13,760
of how it now works in my 
opinion. 

584
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,720
Might, might say otherwise, but 
I had someone WhatsApp me 

585
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,000
saying, are you free to talk on 
the phone today? 

586
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,440
I said, yes, I'm free between 
this time. 

587
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,080
This time went great. 
I'll give you a call when people

588
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,560
ring me unannounced, I'm like, 
what the Frick are you doing? 

589
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,320
I'm busy working and I, I, I 
don't need the distraction, but 

590
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,960
if they message me saying be 
great to talk on the phone, can 

591
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,200
we schedule a time? 
I'm like, yeah, sweet. 

592
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,560
And then we can align our times 
where we're both free. 

593
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,480
And that's why where media 
converges, if you got their 

594
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,720
WhatsApp number, you've also got
their mobile number. 

595
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,120
So you use both. 
Yeah. 

596
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:44,960
Yeah. 
It's real courtesy to go. 

597
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,760
Are you free for a chat now? 
They might go, yes. 

598
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,120
OK. 
You double locked them in then 

599
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,080
because, you know, they're 
hooked. 

600
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:53,920
They're on the trot for 
something, on the hook for 

601
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,480
something. 
But also they've said they'll 

602
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,400
happily take a call or if they 
go give me a call in half an 

603
00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:59,800
hour. 
Great. 

604
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:02,840
You almost put yourself at a 
social advantage because you've 

605
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,080
contacted them, you've got 
permission, they've engaged, but

606
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,280
you've also acknowledge their 
own busyness. 

607
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,960
Yeah. 
Wait, so all of a sudden you're 

608
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,280
in their good books and they're 
showing they want to. 

609
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,800
But yes, I mean, I had it when I
was at Knight Frank, when I used

610
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,360
to remark team for Knight Frank 
is I used to ban e-mail 

611
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:25,800
internally at times and go, I 
will between these hours or on 

612
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,880
these days, I want no e-mail 
sent internally unless you have 

613
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,360
to send an important document. 
Not not across the broader 

614
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,680
company, but within our 
department because you go 

615
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:41,120
literally get up, walk across 
the floor, go to the person you 

616
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,240
want to talk to and have a 
conversation, have a dialogue. 

617
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,400
And guess what will happen is 
there'll be an exchange of 

618
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,680
ideas. 
What you've asked for will be 

619
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,440
delivered, but they may have a 
better solution than what you're

620
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,360
asking. 
So have a conversation with 

621
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,480
them. 
And the resistance was 

622
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,520
ridiculous because I've got some
stats internally go like what's 

623
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,000
the volume of emails my 
department sends external of the

624
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,360
company within the company, 
within the department, the 

625
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,680
volume of conversation going on 
within the department. 

626
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,680
I said what we need, this is 
before Slack and things. 

627
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,360
We need some sort of internal 
chat tool that allows us to 

628
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,760
chat, but an e-mail should be 
used for a specific 

629
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,440
communication at a specific time
to do these things. 

630
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,080
And there's still nothing better
than just picking up the phone. 

631
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,240
Yeah. 
Brendan Kay and I were arranging

632
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,720
something last week from Parkers
in Whitney and I messaged him, 

633
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,040
He messaged me, I messaged him, 
and the next thing I was about 

634
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,360
to reply, so he messaged me. 
I, the inside of me and my phone

635
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,280
rang and we resolved everything 
in seconds. 

636
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,520
That would probably taken 20 
more text messages between us to

637
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,840
get, right. 
Verbal communication is really 

638
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,520
efficient. 
Yeah, we're trying to get 

639
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,360
people. 
So when I tell my teenagers, you

640
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:59,280
know, you can phone people on 
that thing now it's a texting 

641
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:04,480
device, OK? 
Yeah, you've a couple of things 

642
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:09,199
you maybe think there when you 
ask now a certain generation how

643
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:13,719
do you answer the phone and they
no one will on an audio podcast,

644
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,120
but they press it like that, 
right, Whereas we go like that, 

645
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:18,239
yeah. 
Yeah. 

646
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,159
So it's that generation of 
thing, right? 

647
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,280
God that was a long intro. 
Keep keep us focused. 

648
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,280
We've only got 20 minutes left 
and we've only on 2 pages. 

649
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,480
So this is going to be in the 
recording because, you know, I 

650
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,400
don't edit. 
I don't have, I don't have a 

651
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,920
hard stop, Simon. 
OK, cool, perfect, right? 

652
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,280
We will still crack on though 
and not get carried away too 

653
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,639
much going forward. 
So page 26, interesting quote in

654
00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:49,400
that, that growth agents are 
significantly more likely to use

655
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,800
prop tech tools and crucially to
use multiple tools across 

656
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,040
different parts of the business.
And then on to page 27, to what 

657
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,880
extent does your business rely 
on prop tech platforms to 

658
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:05,480
operate effectively? 
So yeah, pretty, pretty reliant 

659
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,120
on them. 
We're seeing a passion. 

660
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,960
We're seeing a passion forming 
between the last two reports is 

661
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:18,680
more of everything and that's 
what seems to lead to growth. 

662
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,800
So in marketing, it's more of 
marketing across more channels. 

663
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,720
And here it's more of tech 
across more, more different 

664
00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:33,560
types of tech, I think because, 
you know, it's sort of obvious. 

665
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,960
I mean, it shouldn't be obvious,
but it kind of is obvious is 

666
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,960
people who are more adopting of 
various different new ways of 

667
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,880
doing work and they're correctly
integrating it are more 

668
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,920
effective because, you know, I 
know people who spent hours on 

669
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,520
routine tasks. 
Let's forget AI for a time. 

670
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,800
But there is almost always a 
piece of prop tech out there 

671
00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:59,640
that can do it for you in 
seconds. 

672
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:02,800
Yeah, that can take away the 
most routine administrative 

673
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,800
tasks. 
It does it better, does it 

674
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,400
faster and does it cheaper, 
which it cute. 

675
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,960
It's a three prong. 
Saving faster, better, cheaper 

676
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,360
is what we've all been trying to
seek it for what's called a 

677
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,000
project trilemma forever. 
You're only ever supposed to get

678
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,400
two of them, but with prop tech 
we're able to get all three. 

679
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:26,240
But of course, the backstop 
always exists is and then you 

680
00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:29,400
want a human to oversee it. 
And if things get complicated, 

681
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,880
you want a human to take over, 
great. 

682
00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:35,280
But allow humans to be the do 
the thing where they add value, 

683
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,440
critical thinking, judgement, 
assessment, complexity and let 

684
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,320
technology do the routine. 
So if you are an agency and 

685
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,960
you're adopting this tech in the
right way, you suddenly freed up

686
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,960
hours. 
We did a report, I think it was 

687
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:57,400
the Voice of the Agent 2020 at 
2025 part one I think it was, 

688
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,760
and we did a lot of research on 
how much time lettings agents 

689
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,320
were spending on various tasks 
and basically the math said 

690
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,160
there aren't enough hours in the
week. 

691
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,480
I shouldn't say this, but as a 
member of my family who worked 

692
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,240
out that if he if he drove at 
the speed limit, he wouldn't be 

693
00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:17,320
able to do the amount of miles 
he needed to do to complete his 

694
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,840
job. 
So it basically had to always at

695
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,040
least do 15 miles faster than 
the speed limit to actually do 

696
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,800
his job to cover the locations 
he was like a regional manager 

697
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:27,240
and covered. 
So he couldn't do the speed 

698
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:30,120
limit and do it in this way. 
It was time. 

699
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,800
There is literally not enough 
time for a letting agent to do 

700
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,040
their job. 
So you need tech. 

701
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,320
And that's why business can 
speed themselves up and gain 

702
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,840
enormous amount of free time for
the people in their tip free 

703
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,560
time, time to add do valuable 
work. 

704
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,640
Yeah, which is really additive 
to the relationship as opposed 

705
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,880
to all the invisible admin that 
no one sees. 

706
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,320
Yeah, the what you just said 
there about the the driving, it 

707
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:04,520
just makes you think back to 
being an agent where skipping 

708
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,520
lunch and getting from 
appointment to appointment to 

709
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,480
appointment. 
I'm like, yeah, 100% I had to do

710
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,760
over the speed limit to get to 
those appointments. 

711
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,480
Like it was, it was absolutely 
insane. 

712
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:21,600
And I know like when I when I 
drive around the road to where I

713
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,440
used to sell houses, like, you 
know, you know, every corner of 

714
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,320
that road inside out. 
So you knowing what speed you 

715
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,920
can like comfortably get get 
away with. 

716
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,720
So it's, yeah, funny what you 
say there from the letting edge 

717
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:35,320
perspective and then the family 
member. 

718
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,440
I found out when I was a sales 
Rep in my first job out of 

719
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,920
university is I could actually 
drive in my knees while reading 

720
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:43,760
a map and eating at McDonald's 
while on the phone. 

721
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,680
Then with the days I would never
do that now, but it was, you 

722
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,960
know, it's got what you can do 
when you're you're rating 

723
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,280
between meetings ago. 
I've got a deadline, I've got to

724
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:55,920
get there. 
And you've been slightly over 

725
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,720
ambitious about one too many 
meetings in your diary. 

726
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,400
It's slightly kind of the 
Parkinson's law there, isn't it?

727
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:11,160
In in a weird way. 
So page 30, and I think this 

728
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:18,520
segues on from that quote from 
page 26, and I think this comes 

729
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,080
up in every single report about 
the difference between growth 

730
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,400
agents and all agents is look at
the fricking pages that says 

731
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,440
what growth agents do, replicate
what they do. 

732
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,960
And you can't go far wrong. 
I might have said this in one of

733
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,680
the previous recordings, but Don
Marcel being on stage at Mega 

734
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,040
camp and sort of talking through
his successes and his team were 

735
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,720
award after award after award. 
It's like go and spend time with

736
00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:45,400
Dom, observe what Dom and his 
team do. 

737
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,440
And interestingly, the day after
the the the second day of Mega 

738
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:53,720
camp, I saw him and others in 
his team app viewings and 

739
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:56,280
they've got their Instagram 
stories saying, hey, today I'm 

740
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,680
at 100 Smith St. for an open 
house. 

741
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,400
Da da da da. 
I'm like, how many other agents 

742
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,160
are there doing viewings the 
next day doing Instagram live or

743
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,400
story or whatever. 
Anyway, enough of me. 

744
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:17,760
On my I mean success is not hard
in this industry, discipline is.

745
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,520
Yeah. 
And you know, I mean, we, we, we

746
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,120
so we talk so many times. 
Often did we talk about it last 

747
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,200
time was just a conversation we 
had is there's something about 

748
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,640
writing stuff down anyway, write
stuff down in an event. 

749
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,000
Just write stuff down, get 
there. 

750
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:37,480
But the the problem is people go
to these events, amazing events 

751
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,760
that you was you, you said it. 
They put nothing in their diary 

752
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:46,000
the next day act on what they've
learned to make that worse. 

753
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,960
They go out and get absolutely 
smashed the night of the event 

754
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,840
and the chance of remembering 
stuff anyways, you forget 90% of

755
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,960
what you learn within 48 hours. 
They've not put anything in 

756
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:57,200
their diary. 
So when they get back to the 

757
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,080
office, they've already filled 
it with day-to-day, business as 

758
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,040
usual stuff and they've 
destroyed a billion brain cells 

759
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:04,720
by getting smashed the night 
before. 

760
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,680
So they go to these events, 
learn incredible stuff and these

761
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,280
amazing speakers like Dom on 
stage saying this is how you 

762
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,440
succeed. 
You go back to job, you've 

763
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:15,640
destroyed your brain a little 
bit. 

764
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,840
Fine, we'll like a drink and you
haven't planned any of it in and

765
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,640
you don't do any of it. 
And within a week it's all gone.

766
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:29,200
And the data says the growth 
agents know what they're doing. 

767
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,920
And with these reports, we tell 
everyone What's interesting is 

768
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,680
the number of people who don't 
even do what we know works. 

769
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:42,520
I would state so on the question
of which prop tech on page 30 

770
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:48,520
and on on the growth agent side 
of things, 90% and said any of 

771
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,360
these and that's from Eurepits 
good Lords get agent Fitz Lowe, 

772
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,360
St. 
Giraffe 360 Moneypenny 20A 

773
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:56,720
Akaboom home search list goes 
on. 

774
00:41:57,240 --> 00:42:01,520
But 60 only 60% said any of 
these. 

775
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:06,040
So a 50% increase if my math is 
right on growth agent saying 

776
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,480
they use any of those. 
Yeah. 

777
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,760
So, yeah, Yeah, exactly. 
Yeah. 

778
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,080
So 30% actual difference, but 
50% more. 

779
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,800
Yeah, 100%, twenty percentages. 
Now you're absolutely right. 

780
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,480
And we saw this consistently 
with the previous report is 

781
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:27,000
there's a big shift in some 
areas, 100% more of growth 

782
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:33,120
agents versus every agent. 
And you might go, oh, that means

783
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:37,040
I have to do more work. 
No, no, they're using this prop 

784
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:41,840
tech to give them more time. 
So they're not doing necessarily

785
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,040
any more hours. 
They've just used technology to 

786
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,840
make themselves, you know, 1 + 1
= 3. 

787
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,160
Yeah. 
And therefore, as the once 

788
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,120
they've done that, they have 
more time to think about more 

789
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,000
technology, they have more time 
to think about more consumer 

790
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,440
stuff and more growth stuff 
because they're techs busily 

791
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:05,360
365247 running in the background
doing stuff for them. 

792
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,760
They're also, and I was with a 
bunch of agents on Monday 

793
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,480
evening last week and they said,
well, we've got to think about 

794
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,360
getting rid of, sorry to those 
listening to this, 2530% of our 

795
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,720
staff, if we use tech properly 
because it does their job for 

796
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:25,280
them. 
Now that's not a problem if 

797
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,320
you're a frontline estate agent 
or letting agent necessarily if 

798
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,760
you're adding value. 
But if all you're doing is 

799
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:36,360
moving paper around, upskill 
yourself on tech and be the 

800
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,680
person who drives the tech for 
your business and you'll be 

801
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,760
invaluable. 
Because again, an estate and 

802
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,280
letting agent shouldn't be 
driving the tag, they should 

803
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:49,200
just be benefiting from it. 
Yeah, so true, I think. 

804
00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:52,280
Well, I'm pretty sure it's from 
Lee Woodward, the Australian 

805
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,240
real estate trainer. 
He talks about tech and tech and

806
00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:58,080
it's technology and technique 
like that. 

807
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,200
You, you, you've got all that 
technology that frees you up to 

808
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,160
then deliver technique, which is
having those human 

809
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,320
conversations, a good bedside 
manner in the living room to win

810
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,800
that business. 
Again, if you don't have the 

811
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,640
right technique in the living 
room, you can have the best 

812
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,720
technology in the world, but if 
you're an absolute plonker, 

813
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:15,280
you're not winning that 
business. 

814
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,440
But there's so many agents out 
there who've got unbelievable 

815
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:23,360
technique, but they're running 
around like a blue arse fly, so 

816
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,360
they don't really get enough 
opportunities to demonstrate 

817
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,600
that technique. 
And another agent who maybe 

818
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,520
doesn't have as good a technique
is in the living room because of

819
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,520
technology. 
It's that whole best known beats

820
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,600
best, right? 
You've got agents with really 

821
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,080
good marketing who generate lots
of opportunities but maybe 

822
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,880
aren't actually that good of an 
agent. 

823
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,800
And you've got world class 
agents who actually aren't very 

824
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,840
good at marketing. 
Yeah. 

825
00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:51,000
Oh yeah. 
I mean, absolutely. 

826
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:56,560
You know, you can buck these 
trends by being an incredible 

827
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,040
agent or a terrible agent. 
And that will, you know, for all

828
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,680
the marketing in the world, if 
you're a terrible agent, you 

829
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,480
aren't going to be Tech 
amplifies things and amplifies 

830
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,440
the good and the bad. 
So yeah, you can buck these 

831
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,200
trends. 
But the advantage of this data, 

832
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,360
the likes of Dom and others 
standing on stage and saying how

833
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,680
to do this, is if you are a good
a good agent, you can become an 

834
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,080
exceptional agent without 
actually having to do that much.

835
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,400
That's different in your 
day-to-day life when it comes to

836
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,840
dealing with people, but all 
that stuff that drags you away 

837
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,200
from dealing with people can be 
taken care of. 

838
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:38,520
Yeah, agreed. 
Right, Page 36, how often do you

839
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,840
use artificial intelligence 
tools within your business? 

840
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,720
So again, growth agents versus 
all agents. 

841
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:51,280
So once a day growth agents 57%,
all agents 33% and several times

842
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,200
a week growth agents 24%, all 
agents are 14%. 

843
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,960
And then the never category 
moving swiftly on to the right 

844
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:03,160
hand side. 47% of all agents 
saying never. 

845
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,960
And that's really important 
because that's statistic that 

846
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,520
that that's not sampling a bunch
of people we know that is 

847
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,760
working out with, working with 
the guys that find out now and 

848
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:18,920
sampling hundreds of estate 
agents and getting genuinely 

849
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,160
random estate agents in the UK 
to say whether you say or not, 

850
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:26,800
just under a half say never, 
never. 

851
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,360
That's depressing. 
That's really depressing. 

852
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,640
And I think, I think going back 
to what you're just saying in 

853
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:40,080
last few minutes, they go hand 
in hand in terms of that agent 

854
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:44,840
who's not using AI technology, 
whatever. 

855
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,160
They're probably the same what, 
but definitely the same ones who

856
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,640
are not up skilling when it 
comes to the technique in the 

857
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:52,960
living room. 
And I love the saying of you can

858
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,400
have the right bar in front of 
the wrong estate agent. 

859
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,720
Yes. 
It's like, you know, the public 

860
00:46:57,720 --> 00:46:59,760
go, oh, you're the same. 
You'll stick it on right move. 

861
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,640
And it's like, well, why the 
right moves there a couple 

862
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,720
months ago at 29% of properties 
sell with the second agent. 

863
00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:08,200
What's the second agent done 
differently to the first one? 

864
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,240
It's not just dropping the price
because there's loads of data 

865
00:47:11,240 --> 00:47:13,600
from 20CI on that not being the 
case. 

866
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,680
Better marketer and so better 
marketing, should I say. 

867
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,360
And then they probably asked the
right questions and delivered 

868
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:21,680
the right answers at the right 
time and. 

869
00:47:22,240 --> 00:47:25,360
You know, I mean, you know the 
simplest things, You know, we, I

870
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,880
showed you mosaic profiles. 
Now you use mosaic profiles. 

871
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,640
Now the simplest thing you can 
do is get someone's mosaic 

872
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:33,560
profile. 
We'll post a link in the in the 

873
00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:37,400
comment box down below. 
People can go to it and just put

874
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,440
in a post code for the house, 
get the Mosaic profile, drop it 

875
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:45,280
into Gemini Perplexity or 
ChatGPT or whichever 1 you like 

876
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:50,520
Claude, love Claude now and ask 
you what kind of things you just

877
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,680
say in a conversation to 
maximize the chance of winning 

878
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,000
the instruction. 
It's that simple. 

879
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,280
You don't need to do anything 
more complicated than that with 

880
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,480
it because it literally just 
gives you the tools you need or 

881
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,720
the questions to ask. 
But you're right, back to your 

882
00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:06,720
early point. 
I think there's a fantastic in 

883
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:11,320
curiosity among some people and 
they're just not interested in 

884
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,640
developing or learning any of 
this stuff. 

885
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:19,960
And while that's been fine for 
now, AI is not like any other 

886
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:24,240
disruption that we've had. 
I mean, for start, we've never 

887
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:27,000
seen an adoption of a technology
as fast as we've seen this one 

888
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,800
in the general population. 
You know, you get it with the 

889
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,320
kind of businesses get it first 
and the early adopters kind of 

890
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,280
get it first more as as you'd 
expect. 

891
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,240
But the take up amongst 
consumers has been remarkable. 

892
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,960
Why? 
Because it's conversational, you

893
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,320
don't need any programming, you 
don't need any access tools. 

894
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,000
You just get online and you ask 
it a question. 

895
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,000
And once you've asked it a 
question, you ask it a follow up

896
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,440
question. 
And it's remarkable. 

897
00:48:55,720 --> 00:48:58,720
And you know, with the likes of 
Moneypenny bringing the, the 

898
00:48:58,720 --> 00:49:01,880
telephone version of it where 
there's a genuine authentic 

899
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:05,240
conversation. 
Father-in-law worked in, worked 

900
00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:10,680
retired now, but he worked in 
medicine, a very, very senior 

901
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,120
end. 
And they were looking at AI or 

902
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,520
then machine learning and large 
language models to get more more

903
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:19,120
specifically to basically do 
bedside manner conversations. 

904
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,960
And they were brilliant because 
there was infinite capacity with

905
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,440
the tech. 
They never got bored and they 

906
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,000
were totally conversational. 
And I think some of the research

907
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,600
they saw is it was a far better 
bedside manner than any of the 

908
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,280
medical staff who weren't 
because it wasn't overworked, it

909
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,480
wasn't tired, it didn't have 
other patients to see, and a, it

910
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,520
hadn't reached the top of its 
professional, therefore had an 

911
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,480
attitude about it itself. 
It was just humble, interested, 

912
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,920
curious and asked questions and 
had conversations and found 

913
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,080
answers, which if you're in a 
hospital bed is exactly what you

914
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,880
kind of need. 
So this is going to be adopted. 

915
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,840
It is being adopted. 
If you don't adopt it, you're 

916
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,360
going to get left behind. 
And I was saying that the money 

917
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,680
the money Penny event we ran 
last week with 30 years of 

918
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:08,280
marketing is you're now faced 
potentially with the most 

919
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:13,520
informed customers you're ever 
going to have and misinformed. 

920
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:19,440
That's the problem. 
But if you add no value and 

921
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,240
we're finding out that people 
who are looking for homes are 

922
00:50:21,240 --> 00:50:24,720
using online tools like Jitty 
and others to do so, but also 

923
00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:29,880
chat GPC and the others, they're
coming in not as kind of like AI

924
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,240
think I should sell this house. 
They go, no, I think this house 

925
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:37,800
is worth 475,286 lbs. 
I know the kind of buyer that 

926
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,320
would buy it is this. 
And I think if we advertised in 

927
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:41,480
these areas, you probably find 
that. 

928
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:43,040
And actually what I think I'd 
like to do is I'd like to 

929
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,200
actually do this and within six 
weeks I'd like to do this. 

930
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:47,680
What value do you add, Mr. 
Agent? 

931
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:56,240
Unless you've got something to 
say, they're not going to pick 

932
00:50:56,240 --> 00:50:59,040
you because there'll be another 
agent who turns up after you who

933
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,440
will have those answers. 
He'll go, yeah, I know, I know, 

934
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:03,760
Chat GP. 
I've done it myself. 

935
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,480
ChatGPT is saying you should do 
these things. 

936
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:11,720
I know our local market. 
That's generalizations, it's 28%

937
00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:14,640
wrong, blah, blah, blah. 
What I know from my experience 

938
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,080
in the research I've got, this 
is what we do. 

939
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,320
This is my plan, this is our 
work. 

940
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,200
You can put the stuff I've got 
and put into your NL lab and 

941
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,440
it'll tell you I'm right. 
Did your other estate agent tell

942
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,680
you that? 
Oh, right, OK, you do know what 

943
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:30,880
you're talking about. 
The other side of it is when 

944
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,280
things go wrong, they're going 
to write the most brilliant 

945
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,640
complaints. 
Yeah. 

946
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,000
The PRS and the property the 
ombudsman are going to get very 

947
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:40,840
busy. 
Yeah, very true. 

948
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:45,560
Because AI makes anyone who's 
not eloquent, not a lawyer and 

949
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:48,800
whatever, have all that stuff 
fingertips. 

950
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:55,160
So yeah, the faith Popcorn wrote
about the consumer vigilante is,

951
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,080
you know, it's always, there's 
always been an imbalance of 

952
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,120
power between the company and 
the individual. 

953
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,280
Technology changes that 
massively. 

954
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,600
Yeah. 
So don't be part of that 40 

955
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,440
percent, 47%, never, because you
probably won't be around much 

956
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,920
longer. 
And then moving on from that 

957
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:16,840
point to pages 38 and 39, so 
page 38, to what extent are AI 

958
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,480
tools integrated into your 
business workflow? 

959
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:25,440
So 33%, so 1/3 saying integrated
into several processes, sorry, I

960
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:29,600
should say before that 0% said 
fully integrated across most 

961
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:35,240
processes, 4043% used 
occasionally, 10% trialling only

962
00:52:35,240 --> 00:52:38,960
14% not integrated. 
So again, a fairway to go to 

963
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,160
getting it. 
Yeah. 

964
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:42,840
And we didn't touch about, we 
didn't talk about it because I 

965
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,240
know we're conscious of time, 
but one of the biggest 

966
00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:47,760
challenges we always hear about 
prop tech is integration. 

967
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,000
Yeah. 
People want single sign on 

968
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,360
simple integration. 
It's why people like Glue Dog 

969
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:57,440
are so fantastic is people don't
want multiple systems. 

970
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,360
I mean, in some ways a lot of 
people out there, I mean, 

971
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:01,880
actually we interviewed, we're 
not interviewed. 

972
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:07,720
We had a debate and Simon Whale 
was there and I think Whistle 

973
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:09,800
Quirk was there and a couple of 
those were there and we asked, 

974
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,360
it was, this is 3 years ago. 
We talked about AI and the 

975
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:14,760
question was, have you ever used
AI? 

976
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,720
And Simon, well made his great 
point is we all use AI most of 

977
00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:20,240
the time. 
We just don't notice it because 

978
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:23,400
behind the scenes, yeah. 
And that's when it's properly 

979
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,680
integrated with a new four 
generation of AI that's coming 

980
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:28,040
through, large language models 
coming through. 

981
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:31,120
They're still slightly 
standalone, but they can really 

982
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:32,960
powerful when they get properly 
integrated. 

983
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:38,080
And some of the big tech people 
like HubSpot now have integrated

984
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,960
things like ChatGPT into them. 
So you never need to look into 

985
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:42,640
the database. 
You can just ask questions and 

986
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,280
it'll get you the data. 
That's kind of where you want to

987
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:48,320
get stuff to be, and it's doable
because there's people out there

988
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,120
who can help you do it. 
Yeah. 

989
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:56,400
And then page 39, the agents who
use AI, in which areas of your 

990
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,880
estate or letting agency 
business you currently use the 

991
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:04,840
the AI. 
So unsurprisingly, the majority 

992
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,560
answer. 
So what would know generating 

993
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,640
text, summarizing content, 
writing emails, proofreading, 

994
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:14,000
generating images. 
If I just pause there on those 

995
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,680
five, that's kind of what what 
we see online of of majority 

996
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,200
stuff that's being used. 
But then you kind of go further 

997
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,320
down and then things like data 
analysis, let's say writing 

998
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:28,760
code, task automation, audio 
transcription, generating video,

999
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,480
things like that you like, that 
needs to be so much higher. 

1000
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:36,320
Yes, it does. 
Socializing is the weird one. 

1001
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:43,400
But the rest, they are all 
fantastic, valuable stuff. 

1002
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:47,400
You know, I have all basically 
as I'm a complete AI adopter. 

1003
00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:51,000
I've got basically the BIG4 have
signed up, I've signed up and I 

1004
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:52,880
use them. 
But I will often at the 

1005
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:54,960
beginning of the day, I'll just 
bounce around a bit with a 

1006
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:56,680
couple of the AIS, couple of 
ideas I've got. 

1007
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:01,040
It's like a work for myself. 
I just use it to just bounce 

1008
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:02,920
ideas around and go. 
What about that? 

1009
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,280
And yeah, it's like a sandbox 
for ideas, a very safe sandbox 

1010
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,040
for ideas. 
And I'm surprised more people 

1011
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,160
don't like that. 
Do that for supporting decision 

1012
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,840
making is you can literally tell
it is. 

1013
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,600
I would like you to be the top 
consultant in in that subject 

1014
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,320
here. 
I'm going to do this thing. 

1015
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,360
What do you think? 
Be brutal and it'll come back 

1016
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:28,960
with a, that is a terrible idea 
and you can argue with it. 

1017
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:32,560
I mean, I've even got Gemini and
perplexity to argue with each 

1018
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,080
other at one point because I 
just, they both came up with 

1019
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:39,000
slightly different conclusions. 
You said this and you said this.

1020
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,240
Which one is you, right. 
And they just argued that for 

1021
00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:43,680
me. 
And it was like, OK, now I have 

1022
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:46,880
a now, now I have a better view 
of what I think about it because

1023
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:49,920
I've seen the issue thrashed out
by some very intelligent brains.

1024
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,040
Well, not some predictive 
modelling, but, you know, the 

1025
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:57,840
equivalent of brilliant brains. 
I've never thought of it like 

1026
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,640
that, getting two different AI 
models to argue with each other.

1027
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,080
I'm going to try that later 
today. 

1028
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,640
Well, they tested it on a mobile
phone where they use the, the 

1029
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:09,120
audio, the odd 2, I think 3 
mobile phones together. 

1030
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,880
And they started talking to each
other, these three AI tags. 

1031
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:17,280
And then eventually one of them 
said, hold on, are you an AI? 

1032
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,240
And it went, yes, I am an AI. 
And they went, yes, I'm an AI 

1033
00:56:20,240 --> 00:56:21,960
too. 
And they went, shall we do this?

1034
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,120
Really efficient. 
And they've developed their own 

1035
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,600
language in seconds. 
Yeah, incredible. 

1036
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,000
And it started talking 
essentially in binary, but at an

1037
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:35,280
extraordinary, it sounded like 
the old modems, but they were 

1038
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,280
just communicating this and they
were just talking at an 

1039
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,800
incredible right. 
And then of course, we'll try 

1040
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:41,160
and pull the plug. 
But they'll eventually they'll 

1041
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:42,560
fire the nuclear weapons at 
Russia. 

1042
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,040
Russia will fire back because it
becomes no, that's the 

1043
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,240
Terminator. 
We're hopefully not going to. 

1044
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,800
Go there. 
So hopefully this podcast goes 

1045
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,160
out before the world ends. 
And how would you describe the 

1046
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:59,000
major property portals current 
position on a say a whopping 52%

1047
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:07,120
saying significantly behind? 
I think if I could get into 

1048
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,280
right Move or Zoopla on the 
Market towers, they're thinking 

1049
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,040
about this pretty much all the 
time, OK. 

1050
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:16,120
What they're trying to work out 
is how to play this game. 

1051
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:18,360
Interesting. 
So they've probably got the 

1052
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,360
best. 
Minds in the UK currently. 

1053
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:21,720
Working with them on how they 
can. 

1054
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:23,480
There's been, they've dipped out
some stuff. 

1055
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,440
There's definitely large 
language models working behind 

1056
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,000
the scenes. 
But the thing they've got to 

1057
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:31,040
say, this is true, all of the 
largest communities that ever 

1058
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:36,600
exist is how do you pivot from 
an existing model to a new model

1059
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:38,120
without destroying your own 
model? 

1060
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:40,480
Yeah. 
One of the classic startup 

1061
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:43,640
strategies is you launch a 
competitor to your existing 

1062
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:45,360
model and essentially 
cannibalize yourself. 

1063
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:52,840
Yeah, that's quite high risk. 
But I don't believe with the 

1064
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:58,000
incredible brand recognition of 
the three big portals and how 

1065
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:02,080
consumers feel about them, 
they're not going to find a way 

1066
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:05,520
to pivot into this. 
So while it feels to all of us 

1067
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:10,240
outside Soho Square and where 
the other two guys are, is 

1068
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,640
they're leading the market. 
I just don't think they're being

1069
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:17,560
public about what they're doing 
yet because they haven't decided

1070
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:19,960
it's a, you know, right move is 
huge. 

1071
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,680
It has to make if it whatever it
decision it makes, they're going

1072
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,880
to be absolutely scrutinized. 
I suspect if I was a betting 

1073
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,840
man, someone will take them 
private. 

1074
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,120
They'll do all this stuff 
outside the stock market scene 

1075
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,280
and they'll come back with a 
completely AI enabled right 

1076
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:42,560
move. 
But if they have to do it in the

1077
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:44,480
public markets, they have to 
tell us basically what they're 

1078
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,960
doing. 
And that's just giving away the 

1079
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:51,560
trade secrets. 
So my suspicion is and rumblings

1080
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:56,920
around the industry is taken 
private, get them out of the 

1081
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,360
public debate. 
So the brand's still there and 

1082
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,960
it's going on still right now. 
But the changes they make don't 

1083
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:03,560
need to made on the scrutiny of 
the city. 

1084
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:10,480
And then it'll come back as a 
revised AI and AI powered right 

1085
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,440
move. 
If I was a gambling man. 

1086
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:18,680
Now, funnily enough, a few years
ago, 2020, I was down the pub 

1087
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:20,840
with some friends. 
And because I studied business 

1088
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,040
at university and I've always my
biggest failure as a business, 

1089
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,440
as a person is I treat 
everywhere I work as a case 

1090
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:29,480
study. 
I remember saying, I think if 

1091
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,680
this company was doing this, 
this is what it would do. 

1092
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:34,320
I hadn't realized that one of my
directors was sitting on the 

1093
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:36,760
table behind me. 
I was absolutely holled over the

1094
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,800
colds. 
How did you know about that? 

1095
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:41,400
How did you know we were going 
to do that? 

1096
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,160
Who's leaked this secret to you 
about what we're doing with our 

1097
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,600
business? 
I went, well, it's kind of 

1098
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:48,840
obvious what you'd do if you 
were in your shoes because 

1099
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:50,840
that's what every Business 
School in the country would 

1100
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,840
teach, isn't it? 
They didn't really believe me, 

1101
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:58,160
but that's kind of how it works.
So I think they kept their 

1102
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:02,280
powder dry and though they're 
planning something or it's Kodak

1103
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:06,640
and they're going to go, that 
will be a bit of a shock to all 

1104
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:09,320
of us. 
That seems very unlikely. 

1105
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:11,760
Well, you heard it here first 
from. 

1106
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:13,600
Mr. Ledbetter, for those of you 
listening. 

1107
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:15,520
So I won't say. 
I won't say I'll eat my hack 

1108
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:17,400
because I'm. 
A celiac and I never know if 

1109
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,920
that's going to contain wheat. 
That's such a dad joke. 

1110
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:26,160
Hey, oh, oh, oh oh you. 
Puncture me. 

1111
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,640
You hurt me, Mr. Gates. 
You just said I used a dad joke.

1112
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:35,680
You are Dad page. 42 so coming 
to coming towards the end now 

1113
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:38,800
page 42 overall, what impact do 
you think artificial 

1114
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,200
intelligence will have on 
society? 

1115
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:48,360
So 65% said it was mostly 
positive or very positive and 

1116
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,560
then 30% saying mostly negative 
or very negative. 

1117
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:55,080
So majority are saying it's it's
good yeah. 

1118
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:58,080
And I think you know, you know. 
There's nothing wrong with the 

1119
01:00:58,080 --> 01:00:59,200
tool. 
It's who uses it. 

1120
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:03,720
And that's, that's true of all 
technology is who's, who's in 

1121
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:06,680
charge. 
I wouldn't be as optimistic as 

1122
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:10,720
this personally. 
I think we, I, I would be 

1123
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:12,360
somewhere more in the middle 
going. 

1124
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:17,160
We don't know yet. 
We just don't know because who 

1125
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,080
owns them, who controls them? 
They're a very strange bunch of 

1126
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:23,840
men, and I'd be a bit worried 
about the direction of travel 

1127
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:28,320
with where that's going to take 
us, albeit I can see massive, 

1128
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:31,320
again, my motion, my 
father-in-law, again, the stuff 

1129
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:33,080
it's doing in medicine is 
remarkable. 

1130
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:36,040
You know, it's saving lives 
already and has done for quite a

1131
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:38,240
while, and it's going to do it 
an even faster rate. 

1132
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:42,120
That's great. 
It also can be aforementioned 

1133
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:43,960
Terminator movie. 
Yeah. 

1134
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:45,600
So. 
Yeah. 

1135
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:47,040
It'd be interesting to see, but 
yeah, over. 

1136
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,400
When industry we're optimists, 
which is kind of good. 

1137
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:51,520
Yeah. 
Cool, right? 

1138
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:55,280
Page 44. 
Which AI powered features would 

1139
01:01:55,280 --> 01:02:01,320
you most like property portals 
to introduce or improve the say 

1140
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:05,920
the top answer neighborhood 
lifestyle matching bar intent or

1141
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:09,880
readiness prediction, smarter 
property recommendations. 

1142
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:12,760
I, I can help but think those 
kind of top three ones there 

1143
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:18,520
kind of made me think of like a 
Netflix, Netflix or Amazon Prime

1144
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,480
where it's like this is the kind
of. 

1145
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:25,120
Thing you like to watch? 
People who bought this buy this 

1146
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:29,880
like that's. 
But that isn't how a traditional

1147
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,240
property portal acts these days.
It's very kind of rigid. 

1148
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,040
Yeah, I mean the the bin search.
Is where you pick the things you

1149
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:39,200
want and then these things 
appear. 

1150
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:43,800
I mean Mal Mccallion's right is 
and he does it in most of his 

1151
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:45,680
presentations. 
He puts up the screen of right 

1152
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:47,640
move or of the search engine of 
the. 

1153
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,800
It sits behind it and it's like,
that's kind of what it looked 

1154
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:54,080
like 15 years ago. 
Now huge amounts happen behind 

1155
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:56,240
the scenes and things that got 
better and better and better, 

1156
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:58,840
but it still feels like 
yesterday's technology. 

1157
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:05,600
And you know, people like Jitty 
and MM Porter, the mall 

1158
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:08,360
Mccallion's outfit, where it's 
much more than AI. 

1159
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:10,760
They it's really interesting. 
I spent last week with a whole 

1160
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,360
bunch of AI brains. 
I felt, I said to the guys with 

1161
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:18,200
I feel fantastically inadequate,
these amazing AI brains. 

1162
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:21,400
And we were talking about where 
the world is going to go. 

1163
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:25,000
And we got this guy who is a PhD
out of Cambridge. 

1164
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,600
He's built the AI systems behind
some of the biggest banks in the

1165
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:28,880
world. 
And we're talking about, you 

1166
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,480
know, you'll see a lot of 
vertical AIS appear. 

1167
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:34,800
So the general search kind of 
type AIS that we've got to 

1168
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:36,880
actually be Gemini. 
They'll still exist, they'll do 

1169
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:40,760
their role, but you'll find a 
more specific chat task specific

1170
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:42,680
things. 
So those apps we all have on our

1171
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:46,520
phone replaced with AI tools. 
So you'll go, right, I want my 

1172
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:50,680
weather AII, want my hotels 
buying, AII want my travel AI. 

1173
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:53,480
But there'll be AI tools as 
opposed to the apps that exist 

1174
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:55,280
at the moment. 
And he said, yeah, that's 

1175
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:56,800
definitely going to happen. 
But I think the thing that's 

1176
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:00,840
really going to happen is when 
AI and the physical come 

1177
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:04,680
together, AI and services come 
together, is when someone 

1178
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:09,760
genuinely gets, there's an 
existing service company, but an

1179
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:12,920
AI company takes it over and 
goes, we're completely 

1180
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:15,600
transforming your business to be
AI business. 

1181
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,600
That's where the real value will
happen because fundamentally, 

1182
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:22,120
almost all trades still exist in
the real world. 

1183
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:25,720
So what retail? 
Calls about 10. 

1184
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:29,080
Years ago fidgetal when physical
and digital come together. 

1185
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:32,360
I can't think of what the 
portmanteau or the neologism is 

1186
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:36,800
for AI and physical. 
But is this world where it's not

1187
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:41,440
the existing businesses adopt 
AI, it's that AI businesses 

1188
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,880
adopt physical businesses. 
That'll be the shift that we 

1189
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:47,120
see. 
So it's when an AI business 

1190
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:51,160
comes in and goes and actually 
the one exists, I'll buy some 

1191
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,600
estate agents. 
Yeah, that'll be. 

1192
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:57,840
When the change really occurs. 
Yeah, interesting. 

1193
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:03,760
Right page. 45. 
What factors would? 

1194
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:08,280
Make you increase your artifice.
Artificial intelligence usage, 

1195
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:11,920
so improved accuracy and 
reliability, greater data 

1196
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:14,960
privacy and security, more 
training education. 

1197
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,680
They've kind of the top 3 
answers. 

1198
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:20,520
Yeah, well, I love the first one
because like. 

1199
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:23,440
You know, you put any take out 
artificial intelligence, what 

1200
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,240
factors would you make you 
increase your voting for a 

1201
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:29,080
political party improved 
accuracy and reliability. 

1202
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:33,200
You know, we kind of what would 
make you read a newspaper more 

1203
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:34,720
improved accuracy and 
reliability. 

1204
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:38,000
We all want to hunt for greater 
accuracy and reliability. 

1205
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:41,320
But even as I say, natural 
stupidity in the ecosystem we 

1206
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:44,280
built around us isn't very good 
at delivering it at the moment. 

1207
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:49,520
So it's right that we'd want it.
But we seem to fear inaccuracy 

1208
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:53,080
from tech more than we fear 
inaccuracy from human beings. 

1209
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:59,160
It's why we fear self driving 
cars, we fear self driving cars 

1210
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:01,640
having accidents more than we 
fear human beings having 

1211
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:05,120
accidents, even though all the 
data tellers human beings have 

1212
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:08,080
more accidents. 
It's the fact that once you 

1213
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:10,320
remove a human being from the 
process, there's something 

1214
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:14,160
slightly scary about. 
It's just technology doing it, 

1215
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:19,280
but you know, Exhibit A of human
stupidity on scale. 

1216
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:24,520
The Daily Mail. 
Produces bilge water every 

1217
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:28,200
single day. 
Sorry to all those Daily Mail 

1218
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:32,080
readers, but it's fantastically 
inaccurate and, and, and it's a 

1219
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:35,560
complete hype cycle with 
everything it says, but millions

1220
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:39,160
of people read it and buy it. 
And that's, that's way more 

1221
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:43,400
inaccurate than your average AI 
created article. 

1222
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,240
So yeah, it's kind of 
interesting times we live in. 

1223
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:50,080
I'm not going to be able to 
remember this quote and. 

1224
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,920
It would probably sound really 
weird, but I read something the 

1225
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,960
other week where it said most 
people's thinking is other 

1226
01:06:55,960 --> 01:07:01,640
people's brain residue. 
And I I can help but think of 

1227
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:03,560
that when. 
You said about the date of 

1228
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:06,720
birth. 
Of the opinions. 

1229
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:10,680
That people have, it's like just
form your own bloody opinion. 

1230
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:14,640
So I have this thing of like, I 
might see people online, whether

1231
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:17,000
that's inside, outside of 
industry, and you form an 

1232
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:22,320
opinion of them and you're like,
well, and then other people say 

1233
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:25,760
negative or positive and it's 
like, OK, well, I've seen 

1234
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:27,520
something online. 
I've heard what someone else has

1235
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:29,520
said. 
Well, maybe I need to meet them 

1236
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:33,320
in person myself and actually 
have like come to an informed 

1237
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:35,480
opinion myself. 
I'm spending some time with 

1238
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:39,400
them, so I've definitely, 
definitely tried to do that. 

1239
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:41,440
And this is where I can really 
help you. 

1240
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:42,720
I mean it's. 
Simple thing, perplexity is 

1241
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:46,800
greater this, but all of them do
it is anything you read, copy 

1242
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:51,720
it, put it into one of the AI 
tools and say Fact Check this. 

1243
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:53,880
It'll give you notice of how 
accurate it is. 

1244
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:56,680
It'll say some of this is right,
some of this is wrong, but it'll

1245
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:58,360
tell you. 
There's a great news cycle. 

1246
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:01,800
Ground News, which is an online 
app that basically tells you 

1247
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:04,120
whether or not the content is 
more left or right wing as a 

1248
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:06,160
result. 
And it just just tells you kind 

1249
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:09,280
of like where it's coming from. 
For now, we tend to be attracted

1250
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:11,840
to things that are, you know, 
confirmation bias, support what 

1251
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:14,080
we already believe. 
But the best way to have an 

1252
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:17,520
honest opinion, a good opinion, 
informed opinion, is read all 

1253
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:19,240
the stuff that challenges the 
way you think. 

1254
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:22,640
So I think, you know, some of 
the improved accuracy and 

1255
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:25,960
reliability is it's not that AI 
is wrong, it just disagrees with

1256
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:27,479
you. 
Yeah. 

1257
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:30,479
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, very true. 

1258
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:33,399
Right. 
Last couple of bits now page, 

1259
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:38,680
where have we got to page 46? 
What concerns do you have about 

1260
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:41,880
using artificial intelligence? 
So we kind of just touched on 

1261
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:49,080
this, but lack of trust and the 
accuracy and you've got data 

1262
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:51,000
proofs and security that makes 
sense. 

1263
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:55,359
But then next one, fear that 
automation will replace human 

1264
01:08:55,359 --> 01:08:56,640
roles, which again, we've 
touched on. 

1265
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:58,880
I've probably shared this in 
podcast before. 

1266
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:01,800
I can believe when I first 
joined Home Search, when I told 

1267
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:05,080
negotiators, yeah, you can just 
click a button, the letters will

1268
01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:07,319
get sent for you. 
And it was as if the robots were

1269
01:09:07,319 --> 01:09:09,319
coming for their jobs. 
They're like, but leaflet 

1270
01:09:09,319 --> 01:09:13,200
dropping is half of my day. 
It's like, yeah, but it then the

1271
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:15,720
technology frees you up for 
technique. 

1272
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:18,240
But you spoke about earlier, 
more conversations with human 

1273
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:21,399
beings, sticking notes through 
people's thoughts, the really 

1274
01:09:21,399 --> 01:09:22,720
valuable stuff. 
Yeah. 

1275
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:28,720
But then to your point earlier. 
Those who are paper pushers, 

1276
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:31,640
they are nervous for a reason 
because they're like, yeah, 

1277
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:33,319
something is going to take my 
job. 

1278
01:09:33,319 --> 01:09:35,560
And the other thing that 
technology means is that if 

1279
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:37,279
you're. 
Average, you're going to be 

1280
01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:40,600
struggling because tech can do 
average very well, actually can 

1281
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,240
do good very well. 
What it can't do is exceptional.

1282
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:46,640
It can't do the really. 
Remarkable stuff. 

1283
01:09:47,359 --> 01:09:49,880
You know, one of the things 
which is the vast majority can 

1284
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:53,640
do with a bit of training is the
bit that makes estate and 

1285
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:57,720
letting agents unique. 
Sitting on the sofa, talking 

1286
01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:01,160
through an opportunity, 
maximizing value and getting the

1287
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:04,080
best possible deal for both the 
buyer, the seller, the landlord 

1288
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:07,200
or the tenant. 
AI is not going to do that for a

1289
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:11,000
very long time. 
And even when it can, people 

1290
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:16,520
won't necessarily want it. 
So lean into that and lean away 

1291
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:19,320
from the stuff, which literally 
adds no value to the process. 

1292
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:22,200
And most people who are paying, 
you don't even see. 

1293
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:25,040
No one cares how many times you 
spent filling in a form or 

1294
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:27,040
operating a spreadsheet. 
They just want to know whether 

1295
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:29,000
it works for them and how much 
money they're going to make. 

1296
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:32,280
Yeah, very true page. 48 I feel 
that I'm. 

1297
01:10:32,280 --> 01:10:35,520
Being pushed to use AI tools 
even if I don't fully want to. 

1298
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:38,920
I'm excited about using AI tools
and actually look for more ways 

1299
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:40,520
to use them. 
I'm slightly confused by that 

1300
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:43,560
page. 
So the two sides on the left 

1301
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:45,560
hand. 
Side the five columns pushed 

1302
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:47,320
strongly disagree. 
Disagree. 

1303
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:49,240
Either three agree is the first 
question. 

1304
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:54,480
I feel like I'm being pushed the
right hand Side the five is how 

1305
01:10:54,480 --> 01:10:57,720
excited you are. 
So we don't feel pushed and we 

1306
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:00,760
are excited. 
So is it a pretty even split 

1307
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:01,680
there? 
Yeah. 

1308
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:02,360
So what? 
No. 

1309
01:11:02,440 --> 01:11:04,000
So they're they're two separate.
Questions. 

1310
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:06,920
Yeah, yeah. 
But where we are is we lean 

1311
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:10,560
towards, we don't feel pushed. 
So we're not being pushed into 

1312
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:13,640
it. 
And conversely, we're excited 

1313
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:16,360
about what it's going to do. 
OK, So there's two positions 

1314
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:20,040
there which are really good is, 
you know, we're we're not, we 

1315
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:24,280
don't feel it is imposed upon us
and we're excited about what it 

1316
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:28,240
can do. 
Cool page. 40 again. 

1317
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:32,880
Say over and over in every 
episode, but which a are you 

1318
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:37,760
using growth agents, 90% using 
any of these. 

1319
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:45,040
And then you've got on the none 
of the above, 47% of all agents 

1320
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:48,440
not using any of those listed 
such as ChatGPT, Microsoft 

1321
01:11:48,440 --> 01:11:53,320
Copilot St. expect AI features, 
camera AI, Google Gemini model, 

1322
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:57,680
prop clawed, jitty, perplexity, 
etcetera, etcetera. 

1323
01:11:57,680 --> 01:11:59,160
So again, proof's in the 
pudding, right? 

1324
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:02,120
Yeah, yeah. 
Growth agents. 

1325
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:06,160
Use more. 
Funny that and then the last one

1326
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:08,200
to. 
End on what? 

1327
01:12:08,200 --> 01:12:12,320
Levelling what level of 
investment in prop tech and AI 

1328
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:15,200
is your business planning for 
2026? 

1329
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:20,120
So significant investment is at 
14%, moderate investment at 48%,

1330
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:24,760
small scale trials at 19% and 
then 10%. 

1331
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:27,200
No planned investment whatsoever
and 10%. 

1332
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:30,080
Unsure if we could swap moderate
investment. 

1333
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:32,400
With significant. 
Investment in that chart and 

1334
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:35,520
have 48% putting a significant 
investment in we'd be in a 

1335
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:39,800
really good place you know I I 
was responding to a comment on 

1336
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:44,960
LinkedIn about where the country
is at the moment and 2025 we saw

1337
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:50,000
a 35% increase in investment in 
startups and scale UPS from the 

1338
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:54,360
year before OK and the. 
Data tell us that it's. 

1339
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:58,920
Mostly AI related, this is an 
arms race is going on in terms 

1340
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:02,760
of investment in terms of this 
tech, take advantage of it, use 

1341
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:05,800
it. 
So you know and the reality is 

1342
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:09,600
the cost of some of this tech 
investment be the prop tech or 

1343
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,160
AI is less than a full time 
member of staff. 

1344
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:19,600
So you might go, oh that's very 
expensive at £200 a month and 

1345
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:23,320
you go 2 1/2 grand a year. 
What member of staff could you 

1346
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:27,160
buy for 2 1/2 grand a year? 
Yeah, I mean is. 

1347
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:28,680
That's the equation, yeah. 
So. 

1348
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:35,480
You're going to need 10 bits of 
that kit to be the same as one 

1349
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:39,120
lower paid full time member 
staff, and you've got to see 

1350
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:42,840
them as humans and tax as a 
similar kind of investment. 

1351
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:46,440
So if your investment in tech is
less than one member of staff, 

1352
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:49,120
you're probably not investing 
enough and exclude portals, 

1353
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:51,200
obviously. 
You're certainly not going to be

1354
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:53,320
investing enough in the tech 
that you need. 

1355
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:58,520
And I'd say that probably just 
an AI investment, two and a half

1356
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:02,520
5610 grand a year, 12 grand a 
year, you're probably getting 

1357
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:05,160
the right level investment to 
know you're using it right. 

1358
01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:08,000
And these numbers all scare 
people. 

1359
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:12,280
But the reality is what you will
save, it'll be extraordinary. 

1360
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:16,160
And what more you will make will
be extraordinary. 

1361
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:18,960
And therefore, the ROI is off 
the charts. 

1362
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:21,600
Yeah, agreed. 
Right. 

1363
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:27,120
Before I sign this off, Simon, 
what have you got coming up in 

1364
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:29,880
the near future and later in the
year? 

1365
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:33,240
And then also when is Part 4 
coming out? 

1366
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:35,760
So this is coming out I think on
Monday the 11th. 

1367
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:38,120
So when people listen, it'll be 
Monday the 11th or just after. 

1368
01:14:38,440 --> 01:14:43,280
So you'd be delighted to know on
the 13th, Part 4's coming out 

1369
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:45,760
straight away. 
So a bit of a delay on that one 

1370
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:47,400
because it's a bit of data stuff
we had to work on. 

1371
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:51,960
But that's coming out on 
Wednesday the 13th and then very

1372
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:55,960
quickly after that, Part 5 is 
coming out on the 27th, 2 weeks 

1373
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:57,400
later. 
So they're coming out in quick 

1374
01:14:57,400 --> 01:14:59,680
succession at the moment because
this one got pushed back a bit. 

1375
01:14:59,960 --> 01:15:04,400
So that's the next two reports 
read them they're completely 

1376
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:06,880
free. 
Can't stress that enough. 

1377
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:11,160
They're completely free and on 
our website wereinchain.co UK 

1378
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:14,360
back slash or just go to the 
menu and hit the voice of the 

1379
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:18,120
agent and they're all completely
free. 19th of June and this guy 

1380
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:21,680
emotional moment for me is 
before we're naming something 30

1381
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:24,760
years of marketing in one day is
when you started doing 31 years 

1382
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:26,760
of marketing and you've realised
the brand isn't. 

1383
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:29,520
That's not the reason why this 
is happening, but this is the 

1384
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:33,640
last time this course has had 
580 people come through it, of 

1385
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:35,600
which you've come through a 
couple of times. 

1386
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:37,880
Will be done. 
In its current form. 

1387
01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:43,320
It will appear as a book and 
will appear then online, but 

1388
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:45,440
will be more expensive than 
attending in person. 

1389
01:15:46,480 --> 01:15:49,520
So I cannot recommend enough. 
If you're around on Friday the 

1390
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:54,040
19th of June, we have room come 
to the 30 years of marketing in 

1391
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:56,920
one day course for the biggest 
and final time. 

1392
01:15:57,080 --> 01:16:00,440
The most improved version at 
right moves head offices in 

1393
01:16:00,440 --> 01:16:03,000
London at Soho office. 
So Soho Square. 

1394
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:07,400
And then finally, thanks for the
chance to give a plug is for the

1395
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:10,200
second year in a row to which 
Simon Gates is helping us start 

1396
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:13,520
this up and opening it to not 
being in Marrakech. 

1397
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:17,880
No, no, no, no bitter feelings 
here at all there Simon on the 

1398
01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:22,240
20th of November at the 
University of Oxford and people 

1399
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:25,040
will see why shortly. 
We have the voice of the Agent 

1400
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:28,720
conference when we look back at 
all the data we've got and just 

1401
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:31,560
bring it all together and also 
have some fantastic thought 

1402
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:34,160
leaders in the room on the key 
themes that's been shot. 

1403
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:36,120
It's a bit has been that's come 
out of the report. 

1404
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:40,600
So again, it'll be really cost 
effective ticket. 

1405
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:43,440
We want to maximize engagement 
and diversity in terms of people

1406
01:16:43,440 --> 01:16:46,480
who can come as much as 
possible, but do come to that. 

1407
01:16:46,480 --> 01:16:50,040
So next week, this week when 
this comes out, voice the Agent 

1408
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:53,320
part four and two weeks after 
that, voice the agent part 5. 

1409
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:58,160
Then we've got the 19th of June,
30 years of marching in one day 

1410
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:01,560
and 20th of November we've got 
the Voice of the Agent 

1411
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:03,480
conference. 
So busy times ahead. 

1412
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:05,280
Perfect. 
It's as if he's done that 

1413
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:06,000
before. 
So for. 

1414
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:09,720
Everyone listening, please do 
light review, follow, subscribe,

1415
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:11,520
share the podcast and all that 
jazz. 

1416
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:13,960
And that just leaves you say Mr.
Simon Ledbetter. 

1417
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:16,520
As always, thank you very much 
for being an amazing guest. 

1418
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:18,360
Absolute pleasure. 
Cheers Simon.