Hello and welcome to Opening the Gates to more listings for
Estate agents with me, Simon Gates.
And I'm delighted to be joined today by Sonia Townsend.
Sonia, thank you very much for joining me.
Thank you Simon for inviting me. Excited to be here.
I'm excited to have you on as well because it still baffles
me, but the home staging world is still not as big as it should
and need to be in the UK. So it feels like it's, it's
getting there slowly but surely. So yeah, I'm keen to have this
chat. I've had a couple of people on
before to, to talk about home staging and it's always good to
get a different opinion on it. And in terms of your background,
you have, if I'm not mistaken, bought, sold, developed and let
out properties across both London and Australia.
So you're, you're well, well versed in this world to be
talking about the do's and don'ts of how to make properties
look good, right? They got the got the battle
scars to prove it. I love property, so yeah, I love
it. And, and I think I read on, I
don't know if it was on your website or on LinkedIn profile
that and it's kind of, it's not just across home staging, it's
across other things as well, whether it's social media, video
content, learning, it's so much more a normal thing in North
America and Australia when it comes to staging.
Exactly. I mean, I'm, I'm Australian, not
that I did it in in Oz. I've been here like 25 years,
but it is it's massively popular over there.
It's almost like you wouldn't. People wouldn't put a property
on, empty it, it just wouldn't get done.
That just wouldn't happen. No, it and you know the the
first call is to the to the realtor.
Obviously, especially in America, it works a little bit
different and, and the realtor covers a lot more bases, I think
than typically the estate agent here.
But then, you know, the second call is to is to a home staging
company. Whereas here and, and you're
right, it does feel like it's, it does feel like it's, it's
kind of gaining momentum, but I don't know if that's just
because I'm constantly talking about it.
So, you know, this is my third, my third year in business or in
staging business. And definitely maybe, you know,
maybe like I said, I was talking to the right people now compared
to three years ago, but it's definitely gaining popularity in
it. And it, you know, when I started
three years ago, a lot of the time I had to explain what is
staging like, what everyone's like, Oh, I hadn't heard of
that. They're like, oh, do you mean
interior design? I'm like, no, not really.
Like it's, there's an element of interior design, but it's not
interior design. And now the business comes to
me, which is, you know, which is great.
So it definitely has, you're right, it definitely has gained
popularity and awareness. So you said so guys, a few
things I want to ask off back what you were just saying, but
that last bit there of some business coming to you now.
So it obviously didn't start like that three years ago.
So for anyone listening, whether they're an estate agent, a
stager, a mortgage broker, A conveyancer, and they're like I
want to get more people coming to me.
How have you got to that after three years?
Like what would it look like from the start to go from
chasing business down to having it come to you?
Good question. So I mean, my background before
this, I was 20 years in a corporate career and a chunk of
that was in recruitment. It was always kind of
recruitment and marketing. So, you know, I, I had AI, got a
degree in marketing, came to London, you know, for 12 months,
25 years ago, thinking I'd be pulling some pints in a, in a
bar. Fell into recruitment because
it's kind of it's easy and it's, and it's fond, at least it was
back then. So I'm used to canvassing,
picking up the phone, you know, the the first three months of of
my business, it was literally me I took, I tried working from
home. God, sorry.
My cat just just jumped on the coffee table.
Sorry, that's live. Done it again.
Oh gosh, right. Something to get fixed.
Sorry, Simon. Sorry everyone.
So I, yeah, the first three months was just me picking up
the phone, just phone call after phone call after phone call,
introducing myself, following up with emails.
And then I took a Co like a membership and a Co working
space in like near where I live just because I I found after a
couple of weeks, I just couldn't work from home.
I couldn't motivate myself after, you know, 20 years in a
in a career, you know, in a job and just would just walk up and
down high streets and just walk into estate agents and say
hello, This is who I am. And one of the first actually
the first client I got was off the back of that because they
were quite close to the Co working space.
And I just used to just just sit sitting there making a bit of a
nuisance of myself. But it was, you know, it was
good. Everyone, estate agents are
people people, but they they should be, you know, the most,
you know, they should be. If they're not, maybe they're in
the wrong job, but you know, they like people that they're
interactive, they're engaging. So yeah, it was just, it was a
lot of that. And then that obviously, you
know, one job leads to two leads to three and so on and so forth.
And then, you know, getting in with with certain brands is
good, like certain estate agency, estate agency brands and
you get referred within that business.
So yeah, like anything, it's, you know, it's going to start
somewhere. But yeah, like I said, picking
up, picking up the phone, making to make sort of 5060 cold calls
a day. I love it.
And actually I want to get back to that.
Working in staging is quite hands on.
You know, it's very is, I mean physical in terms of listing
stuff, but it's very, very hands on.
I sort of want to get out of the day-to-day operations of the
business and back to the stuff I love, which is the the business
development and the sales. OK, cool.
It's like, I guess the world we now like live in in 2026 and of
recent years is everyone wants to have like an attraction brand
and it's I just want to put out lovely stuff on on Instagram and
record some videos and just wait for the phone to ring in the 300
plus episodes I've done asking that question, whether it's
stager, estate agent, whatever, where did business start?
I never rarely find someone goes.
Oh, well, I just recorded a load of video and people came to me.
It's normally it's not. I had to bang some doors down.
I had to rub these off and work really hard.
Then I did a good job, people. People spoke positively about
me, referred, and then it snowballs from there.
But I feel like there's quite a few people who, yeah, don't want
to get their hands dirty to start.
It's, it's hard, right? And if you're not used to it,
and it's a really good point because I think there are, there
are a lot of home stages coming into the market.
There's, there's sort of different courses and, and
people that are sort of churning out home stages into, into the
market and which I think is great for the, for the sector,
for the industry. You know, the more people in it,
the more people talking about it, the more awareness, the more
it will definitely take off. But I think what some people
don't realise is they think, oh, home staging is kind of fluffing
cushions. And if you like interior design,
yeah, there's a bit of that, but it's such a small percent.
It's, it's a business, right? Like any business, you've got to
go and win the business. You've got to develop
relationships. You've got to, like you said,
you know, deliver on your promise and and deliver
brilliant customer service. But you've got to go and create
those relationships. And those networks initially
with estate agents who are probably about 80% of my, my, my
business, 20% comes direct. But you're the thing with state
agents, like you're, you're there to help them.
You know, staging is a win win. It's almost like a free
marketing service for them because this agent obviously
doesn't pay for it. Sometimes in the states they do
again, a slightly different model, you know, especially the,
the higher, higher end, like luxury end.
But for them it, it, it's a, it's a no brainer because the
the client is paying for it. The client will get a higher
offer and a quicker sale. Therefore the estate agent will
make more Commission and get a quicker sale.
You know, I get to keep a business and pay the mortgage
each month. So it's and the buyer ultimately
can obviously see what they're buying and kind of visualise,
you know, the home versus the empty flat or the empty house.
I looked at your website earlier today in Regan's physical
conversation, and it was just astonishing the difference that
staging makes when you had the before and after.
Like, here's what I start again, here's what an empty home looks
like. And you're like, that doesn't
look very like warm, welcoming or exciting.
And then bang, see the picture next with the furniture.
I'm like, that looks really nice, like something I'd want to
buy and live in. Yeah, it's true.
And I think I mean, you're 100% right.
You know, there's so many stats and I'm sure I can sort of churn
some out at you in a SEC. But it's, you know, a house or
your your home, it's the biggest financial decision you're bound
to make, right. And what I've always found
astonishing is the amount of time.
It's almost like time versus cost analysis.
You know, you spend what, 1520 minutes out of viewing.
But but it's something like, you know, if you work that out,
what's that 6060 grand a minute, you know, in terms of the amount
of time that you're spending versus what you're what you're
buying at the end of it. And I mean, there's two points
to follow up with that. So I mean, empty properties, no
one's going to get excited about it, right?
Unless you're unless you're buying a project, right?
Unless you know that you're going to RIP out walls, you
know, maybe an elderly person was living there or whatever.
Like it hasn't been done up or refurbished for ages.
But the thing with staging. And then this is another point
around just chucking some furniture in.
So this is a good point to make. We can come back to it if you
want. But I've also worked with a few
clients who have decided to go down there.
Oh, we'll do it ourselves route. OK, but it's not staging, right.
Chucking in a few bits of furniture is very different
because what what I aim to do and what staging should aim to
do is when the buyer is looking at that ad on, on one of the
portals and then when they go in, you want them to say, well,
right. If they're not saying, well, I
haven't done my job properly. It's not just a oh, it's got
some furniture in and you know, a couple of plants in the corner
and you know what I mean? It's not you're not just filling
a void. You're creating this whole
elevated experience for a potential buyer.
So that one is head and shoulders above the rest.
It's not even just like here it is staged with some furniture
and here it was empty. You know, here's an empty
property. Here's just conscious that
people might not be watching this, but you know, first, first
one's empty property, second one's someone is living in it.
Next one, the one that people, you know, it's the showstopper
is the stage property. Because you know, I've got the
best job in the world. I can make it look amazing,
right? You know, texture, different
lighting, different furniture, You know, it's, it's very, I'm
in a really fortunate position to someone that's living in it.
I mean, if you look at look at my flat, you wouldn't know them
home stages. Seriously, because we live in,
you know, we live in our homes, right?
But when you're staging it, you're not having to, you're not
having to kind of there's no one living in it apart from when
there is. And that's occupied staging,
which we can come on to in a SEC.
But it's is that is that difference between, oh, there's
some furniture in it, It doesn't look empty.
And then the next like the elevated thing where people are
like that's, that's fantastic. It just looks awesome.
And they fall in love immediately when they walk in.
So on the staging side of things, we were talking before
we hit record and you said how my office looked different from
the last time you caught up because I've got rid of all
their, yeah, sports memorabilia in all my books.
And that is as, as I said to you, in readiness of looking to
sell in the near future. And it is mad like when you talk
about time versus cost, like the value of the asset, whether
you're buying or selling it, it's mad we don't spend more
time on it. Like so when I sold my first
house in 2019, right, We're going to go from live mode to
sell mode. We're going to get, you know,
jet washed the Conservatory, make sure the garden is all like
spick and spam, right? It's going on the market this
weekend and sold it within a week.
The way my property looked in the photos and the I don't know,
we sold it within a few viewings.
The way it looks in the photos and a few viewings.
It didn't look like that in three years.
I live there. Not for what?
Not for one day, but you made it look a certain way.
Yeah 2 examples I'll give you when I have traded in cars over
the years. Do I have my smelly golf shoes,
my golf clubs and all the dog hair in the car?
No, that's all taken out and I go and get it balloted before
the car dealer looks at it. Golf clubs.
I used to sell a lot of golf clubs when I was younger to try
and make a bit of money. I'd buy crappy old golf clubs on
eBay, like re grip them, clean the grooves of the club and I'd
sell it back on eBay at a higher price.
Yeah, made them look better and like golf clubs, cars, like
smaller things there. Yeah, with a house it's just
I'll just whack it on right move and and hope for the best.
But I think I'm being interested to get your thoughts on this.
But in a lot of bigger organisations where they're very
KPI driven targets, I'm just thinking I need to get this on
to hit my target by the end of the week rather than slow things
down and going. Sonia, I would actually
recommend that you speak to this home staging company because
there's a few bits you should do to make it more appealing,
increase availability, value, and if we down for a second,
we'll actually increase your chances of selling, speed up the
sale and maybe get you more money at the same time.
But most businesses are not geared up for the interests of
the client. They're geared up to hit their
targets. Be honest, yeah.
And I completely understand. No, I completely get that.
And and I think that in a way it's, it's kind of cutting your
nose off to spite your face, isn't it?
But I, but I do get it. If you're, you know, if you're
High Street brand or you know any, any agent brand 1-2 and
three and you go out on evaluation, you really want to
close that deal and get that seller to list with you.
Because if you say, look, I reckon I'd give yourself a month
to do all these odd jobs and whatever.
In that month, you know that someone else is going to come in
and, and, and undercut you or come back and go, no, we, we
want it on now. It's perfect the way it is and
everyone on everyone knows it's not but obviously these sort of
uninformed sellers going to think, well, actually, yeah,
maybe it is OK, maybe I don't need to paint these walls.
Maybe I don't need to replace the carpet.
Maybe I don't need to declutter or do do this, this and this,
which then it's a race to the bottom because we will know, you
know, a better presented property will all the KP, you
know, so we can KPI's, all the KPI's will be better in terms of
the the engagement online, the click throughs, the, you know,
requests to to view, et cetera. And then ultimately, you know,
offers and an offer price. So it is a bit sad in that
respect. But I you know, again, I
completely appreciate where agents are coming from because
it is such a competitive marketplace, but I think there
needs to be, I would hope there'll be more of a
consultative sell with an agent versus Hi, Mr. Smith, saw you
saw your house today. I think it could do with some
work, but I'm not going to tell you.
Yeah, this with me. Yeah, I, I think that the more
consultative approach are the ones who have the higher
propensity to sell. So I those, those types of
agents who have a consultative approach and I've, I've worked
with plenty of, you know, they're selling 7080% of
properties that they list, Yet you've got the agent who goes,
Nah, it doesn't smell a dog. Nah, you don't need to replace
the carpet. Yeah, you'll get 500 grand for
it. And then they're they're that
agent who sells 50% of what they list.
And then after four weeks, they're ringing up the owner
going, yeah, we need to drop the price.
The market's not very good. And you know, you told me you
get that price. So I get what you're saying as
well about the competitive market where I'm an agent who go
who's thinking they need home staging to have a better
outcome. But I know that they've got John
Smith coming in after me and he's going to overvalue it, do a
cheap thing and tell him it looks fine.
So I'll so I'll just I'll, I'll scrap what I need to tell them
and just tell them what what they want to hear.
But you kind of that race to the bottom.
I think you, you, you said actually, you really need to
push into the home staging and use it as ausp and be the only
agent who says it and tells them the truth.
Tell them what they need to hear, not what they want to
hear. And if they're the right sort of
client, they'll buy into that. They'll lean into it and and
they'll do something 'cause otherwise you just go with
someone with too much money and it's not in very good condition
or it's not going to sell, you're not going to earn any
money. So it.
Exactly. It's it's it's that KPI dance,
isn't it? Well, you know, especially if
one of the KP is, is, you know, valuations and then listings and
and boards in the street. So I do, yeah, I do get it.
However, what I would say though, and I have plenty of
clients come to me direct. So bearing in mind kind of, I
mean by sheer virtue, the client isn't living in the property
when we're doing, you know, a vacant stage.
So where do they live? A lot of people live America,
Australia, Dubai, Asia, you know, there's still that kind of
post COVID bubble where they've moved out of London to, I know,
Somerset or whatever, just to have a bit of a, you know, bit
more land and a bit more of a lifestyle.
But more often than not, I do, like I said before, it's, it's,
I mean, it's probably a bit more than 20% now, maybe 25%.
So I still get a fair chunk of business coming to me direct.
So I think even though it might be tempting for an agent to say
no, that's fine, just leave it. We'll, we'll whack it on empty.
There is enough awareness out there with sellers, especially
slightly savvy of sellers. I mean, also, you know, when I
started three years ago, AI was around like that's half the
reason I left my old job. But you know, AI was around, but
it's much it's much more prevalent now sellers again, not
all, but a lot will probably put something into ChatGPT or Claude
or whatever and go look, I'm looking at selling my property
that what do you suggest? And staging will come up, you
know, so will all the other things, you know, in terms of
doing any, you know, painting, decorating or whatever.
So, so I think it's, it's an interesting time and it's a time
where agents, I guess it kind of flushes out the ones that are
there for a quick listing and a quick sale versus the ones that
are consultative that have got the client's best interests at
heart. And we'll have a tough
conversation with a client and say, look, you, you have to
spend a few grand, but you'll make it back, right?
And again, I can, you know, give you some stats in a minute, but
it's, you know, it's, it's not a, it's not a cost.
And also, like I said before, it's a win win.
So yeah, there might be that race to the bottom with the
unprepared agent, but the ones that have got the experience,
the client's best interests at heart and also the, you know,
the sellers and want to do the best job possible.
They will recommend whether it be staging, painting, whatever
it might be, you know, they'll, they'll, they'll have those
difficult conversations and ultimately they're there.
And those conversations are there to to return or to
maximise the client's return on their investment.
You know their house, their flat, or if it, you know if it
is an investment. So on the, you said about you've
got vacant staging or you've got, you know, a house that's
lived in, what's the, what's the percentages between what
percentage do you do is vacant versus not?
Question, so your typical vacant, you know been tentative
for a few years, tenants have moved out.
I would say it's about 90% of a business.
A we, I, I've, we don't get them a lot, but I've probably, I've
done a few occupied staging jobs where actually there's one at
the minute that, that we've done where a, a client has has served
notice on kind of permanent tenants to get them out, but
might have a tenant in their short term.
Sometimes, you know, a friend or whatever, basically just to keep
the mortgage ticking over and make sure it's not empty.
So those ones, so those ones we've done and with them trying
to sort of hit best of both worlds because you want it to
look like it's staged. But obviously someone's going to
be sleeping in the bed, sitting on the sofa, eating at the
dining table, you know what I mean?
Like, you know, all all the stuff that we put in, I mean,
the, you know, the sofas, especially that I put in they, I
mean, they look amazing, but they're horrendously
uncomfortable to sit on. You know, these are, these
aren't sofas that people buy to sit on.
These are sort of statement pieces, you know what I mean?
Like curvy things and hard backs and that sort of stuff it.
You know, my, my sofa I've had for about 6 years, it's a good
old sofa.com big, slouchy, really cushy.
But it, you know, I wouldn't put it into a, into a staging
project. So there's, so there's those,
there's those ones. And then sometimes there's
almost the part furnished stage, which again, you know, going
back to kind of all of it, you know, it's mainly X rentals that
we that we work with where landlord has gone and bought
the, you know, the typical landlord packaged furniture
recently enough that it still looks in good condition.
It all matches. It's all it all kind of goes
together. And then because we did one
recently in, in Queenstown Road, 3 bedroom and all the furniture
matched. It was all, all nice looking.
Just, you know, the beds needed dressing there.
You know, we needed to put down rugs and cushions on the sofa
and some accessories and artwork, artwork and mirrors, as
well as where a lot of my money goes, especially on on decent
artwork and decent mirrors. So, you know, bedside lamps just
just softening it all because you know, the everyone can tell
an ex rental people be like, oh, it's been rented or what
conditions they're going to be in.
But you wouldn't, it didn't look ex rental once we're dressed up,
but it did definitely look ex rental because it was all like,
you know, very sort of landlord furniture.
Yeah, before we started. I feel like that ex rental
market is such a huge one for home staging.
Like the stats from right move super.
Is this a EUK average? Would be higher in London, but
around 15 to 20% of properties on the market are X rentals and
like you said, you can spot it a mile off.
It doesn't look great online and that landlord's, you know,
trying to dispose of it. But actually if they've got the
best advice of if you actually invested a little bit of money,
you'd sell it quicker. It wouldn't be empty.
So you wouldn't have those mortgage payments like you'd be
paying on it. But again, just a transaction
environment where agents will just ping it on.
It's a listing, let's just get get on with it.
But I, yeah, I think that X rental was a huge 1.
You said as well about in terms of people coming to you
directly. So you said 2025%.
I'm curious from again, I guess a business development marketing
point of view, where do those people find you?
Question Google a lot of the time, I mean, there's a reason
why, you know, with a marketing background, there's a reason why
I called the company London Property Staging.
I haven't, I've never paid for any, any Google search words,
not to say won't, but haven't needed to get a few through
social media, through Instagram. LinkedIn used to be really quite
sort of active on LinkedIn in my corporate career.
It's kind of taken a bit of a nosedive recently, but I've had
a few enquiries through LinkedIn, but mainly, mainly
people just coming through the website.
And, and actually it's a good question because I was talking
to someone the other day and they said they, they put the
question into, into AI and it and it, you know, brought up my
name, well, company name London property stating so.
So yeah, this is what I mean about buy sellers are getting
more savvy. Well, not even said that that
means that they weren't savvy before.
I think the tools are there to make everyone more savvy now,
right? And it's really easy to find
advice, whereas before you've sort of found information, now
you find advice. So like we started the
conversation. If you don't know about staging
and still most people don't, a lot of people don't.
But if you don't know about it and then you put into Claude or
ChatGPT and it comes up and then you start to look into it.
And especially when there's like, you know, there's before
and afters and there's testimonials and there's,
there's there's data statistics on the value of it, IE, you
know, spend X but you make YZ return.
It's, it's a really interesting, interesting time.
Yeah. But to to answer your question,
I mean, I've got to contact us form on the website and we get,
you know, we get quite a few enquiries from that, but they've
obviously originated on Google or Claw or chat or whatever.
So something you touched on there, which I've written down
I'm going to be stealing is we've kind of, we're moving from
a information world to an advice world.
And what I mean by that in terms of the way I've understood you
spoke is let's say five years ago someone typed in, I don't
know, best estate agent Newport Pagnell or property about
Newport Pagnell. That is just kind of how you
would use a search tool, right? Today I could do voice and go.
I've got a three bed property in Newport Pagnell.
It was renovated several years ago, but it's seen better days.
I'm thinking of selling it in near future.
Do I need to look at giving it a link of paint or can I just put
it on the market as it is? And that could be like a voice
command in 10 seconds, right? And then AI is going to go.
Well, actually there's someone who says that staging properties
gets you likely to sell quicker with more money in your back
pocket. Here's their details.
Oh sweet, let's go check them out.
Yeah. And probably probably in terms
of it's most capacity or kind of best capacity, people don't
people asking a broad question like what is your suggestion?
What should I do? They're not leading it.
So whereas before you, you know, you'd have to put in, like you
said, estate agent in your area, best estate agent, obviously you
get all the sponsored results. And then it's just kind of it's,
it's not really it's, it's not, it doesn't use any intelligence.
It's a list. It's, it's information.
Now there is, you know, like I said, you know, a couple of
people said to me that they've, one in particular said that they
put into ChatGPT and, and staging came up and we came up.
So it's the, yeah, I think, you know, like that summary, it's
people looking for, looking for advice, not just information.
Yeah. So it's great.
I mean, it's a great, you know, and hence you know, slightly
smugly why I call it London property staging.
Yeah, yeah, no, love it. And you've mentioned a few times
about sort of the stats behind it.
So can you share with the listeners to any agents who are
are curious about finding out how staging can have an an
impact? Because at the moment about
it'll be lower in London, but about 55% of properties that
come to market actually end up selling.
Now some of that is a pricing issue, some of that is a
marketing issue and then some of it is going to be the
presentation of it. I know the the benefits of
staging, but I want to hear it from your expert on on the data
you've got behind it. Yeah, sure.
So, so the data and these these stats are widely available.
So there's a home staging association which is good at
producing reports based on interviews and data they get
from estate agents and from the market.
And then obviously Riot movie is good as well.
So all the stats that I've got are kind of from those two
sources. So staged properties sell
somewhere around 8% more than their for more under offer than
their unstaged counterparts. So, you know, if you're thinking
I haven't done the maths, but maybe you could do do the maths
for it. I should have said 10% and made
it easy for me. But you know on a on A5, on a
500K property about 40. Yeah, 40. 40K more yeah God,
that was a good guess and but more importantly, they sell
quicker, right. So it's in about half the time
it's and and again, lots of the stats are national.
So you know, there is a skew in, in sort of in London, but by by
way of example and it has been, you know, been complete
transparent the last well, since the market tipped right, the
last sort of 12 months or so have been very different to the
12 months before that. Because before if we were having
this conversation say 18 months ago comfortably, I would say
Simon, everything that we staged goes under offer, if not in the
first weekend, in the first week.
And that was true, you know, everything was was flying off
compared to it being empty. I've got loads of different case
studies and examples where properties have been empty for
2-3 months on the market and again there's a change of
strategy. So you know, for me, staging
sits into strategy. There's it's the marketing
strategy and then you've got the sales strategy.
So quite often when we stage properties that have been empty,
the client might have changed agent, which also, you know,
also helps. It kind of brings up a fresh
listing. Obviously if it's new, a new
agent, new photos, maybe different price point.
So it's kind of the combined strategy.
But yeah, they staged properties.
I think that there is a start. They've got in my head put on a
on a slide deck last week that unstaged sits on the market.
And again, this is a national average, not just London.
It's about 90 days and staged properties, good looking
properties sit on the market for about 4045 days, which which
still in my head's a bit too long.
Like every like I said before, it was a week, two weeks Max
going under offer at least having some really strong
interest and then you know offers start coming kind of, you
know coming through sort of two to three weeks.
On something you you said there and apologies if you, if you
have actually said it and I missed it, but of the properties
you are staging, are they ones or what's the percentage on it
that have tried to sell without staging?
So you're going in as the the second market, it's not worked
out first time around. They've seen the error in fair
ways. I because again, it depends on
what comes to me, you know what I mean in terms of my response.
But I would say just thinking of the ones that we've done
previously, I would say maybe 2. It's changed a lot because I'm
getting a lot more direct enquiries from, from actual
sellers now. But I would say possibly kind of
1/3 to 1/2 would be, we've tried it unfurnished, didn't work.
We're looking at changing agents or sometimes, sometimes I stay
with the agent, right. But yeah, I think initially,
definitely kind of three years ago when I started, it was a lot
more. And, and again, that could just
be that I'm talking to different people now, right?
And I'm, and I'm getting, you know, my direct business is more
than what it was when I started because I didn't have any
business. But I think, yeah, sort of a
good a good third to half would already have been on the market
unfurnished and empty. And then they've changed tact
and decided to get it staged. I just feel like I know I said
it earlier, but if I'm an agent in someone's living room and I'm
trying to stand out and have ausp, one of those could be let
me recommend an institution to Sonia, this amazing home stage.
And here's the stats to back up why you should look at working
with her. But you made a point earlier
around what does the average person think a stager does?
They fluff cushions a bit like they think the average agent
opens the door and and puts a problem.
And. So there's there's so much more
to it in, in terms of the agents as well.
I know because I think how we got introduced was Jack Bollier
introduced us and I've seen on your social media as well,
whether it's Jack or James Hughes.
And it's interesting that it's self-employed, owning their own
business, who would seemingly from what I've seen are the ones
one well, recommending to sellers do it because obviously
they don't even get paid any money until they actually sell,
sell the house. Whereas this isn't corporate or
High Street bashing from me, but perhaps the person on the High
Street again has a target to hit, has a basic wage and it's
like, well, I, I get the listing, I appease my line
manager. It might sell, it might not.
Whereas you're Jack and and James of the world to go.
Mr. Seller. Mrs. Seller, this is the best
advice for you. The house is empty.
Here is the data to prove that I'll get you sold quicker and
for more money. Is it really good point again?
So there's a couple of things with self-employed or
independent agents, like you said, you know, no, no sale, no
fee. So they are super, super focused
on those listings and they only really want to take stuff on
that they know that they can sell and it will sell.
It will sell well because why? Why would you take something on
where you know, you know, it's going to be a nightmare?
It might, it might be the seller might, the seller might think
it's worth 100 grand or 200 grand and more than what it is.
And you've got to spend the next three months going back and
forth and telling them it's not. So, you know, with only with,
with the self-employed agents, there's, there's a limited
capacity to what they take on. So they're only going to take on
the ones that they know that they can sell.
And it might be empty, it might be, it might need work.
But again, you know, to your earlier point, they're going to
be the ones that are recommending it because they
want the listing and they want it to look as best it can to get
the most engagement interest offers, etcetera.
And I think also then with self-employed agents.
And again, you said this is nothing, this isn't kind of
cussing out any High Street corporate agents, but we're all
grafters, right? Like this is my business.
If I don't go out there and win the business, deliver on the
business, I don't have a business.
Yes, I've got I've got a team and they're really support
everybody helpful. But like at the moment, kind of
where I'm at now and for the last three years, it's all it's
all me. And just like with independent
self-employed agents, they're out there grafting, they're out
there canvassing, they're out doing mail drops, they're out
there speaking events, you know, that they're out getting the
business that that business doesn't just sit or doesn't just
come to them by them sitting in their front room, like you said,
posted on, on, on Instagram. So I think from a, a mindset and
work ethic perspective, any independent business owner or
business owners get along because we're all kind of in it
together. And we're also, you know, I'm,
I'm super, super passionate about delivery and service like
I will, I will always kill myself to get the right result
for the client. Just had a chat with the client
earlier and he was sort of saying, oh, you know, what's
your process? And I said, normally we'll take
in two or three options to a, to a stage or to a project because
you don't quite know what it's going to look like when it's
there. And I can't walk away from
something with it in my head going actually, that artwork
looks, looks rubbish. I should have chosen that one.
I'll, I'll, I'll work all night when I have done it before,
actually work, work all night to get something done because I
said it would. But that, you know, linking us
back to independence, that's where we are very similar
because we're all, we're all out there grafting.
We're all out there getting our own business.
And the level of service that we deliver is dependent on how long
we're in business. You know, provide a rubbery
service. You probably won't have a
business next year. And I want to go back to Emmett.
You said earlier about staged property getting 8% more.
What typically is the investment someone would make as a
percentage of Fair sale price? This is the good bit, Simon,
right? This is, this is what we're all
after. So again, according to the
stats, it's less than 1% of the asking price right in, in
London. If you look at when I look at
kind of doing the maths in my head when either I'm charging
far too little or, or they or these or there's a skew.
But obviously London prices are, are more so somewhere between
sort of half a percent to 1%. Someone else came out with some
stats of of 1 to 3%. Then I looked at that and I was
like, wow, like what am I doing? But it's about about say one 1%,
no more. I would say again, go slightly
up and down depending on furniture and how much stuff it
needs. But yeah, for, for less than 1%
investment, you're making up to potentially 8% more.
So 5 to 8, I think is, is, is the the stat, but say up to 8%
more. So yeah, it's see what I mean?
Like it's, it's money for old rope.
It's a no brainer. Why wouldn't you spend a bit
because you're going to get that back and then some.
But also more importantly, it will sell quicker because you
know, like you said before, with, with agents, that kind of
list. And it's sitting there and
sitting there, it's going slowly further and further down on
right move or the portals. Yeah, after about four weeks
people aren't really going to look at it anymore.
And if they do, they're going to think, well, I can probably get
a bargain here because it sat there for four weeks, hasn't had
much interest. I'll go in with the cheeky
offer. So therefore you know what you
get on return goes down even more.
Yeah, I've literally got, I need to put this social media post
out, but I've got this graph and it highlights and it's obvious,
but it's nice to have the data and a visual on it.
The longer a property sits on the market, the less likely it
is to sell. So time kills deals, but it also
kills price as well. The optimum time to get the best
price is usually between weeks one and two on the market.
So if you've actually launched it to the market correctly,
you've had a a week of activity, then you're hopefully choosing
between buyers. They compete.
It pushes the price up. Once you get to something that's
been on the market for 150 days or more, which is obviously a
long time, typically it will sell for 10%, blow the asking
price. You think on a 500 grand house
50, you know 450I I was I started writing down some bits
when you said about for ease of maths for me and we'll use a 500
figure and 1%. Let's say I've got a seller who
wasn't I recommended staging at the start as an agent.
They're like, I don't know you'd like I'll I'll take a chance say
go on at 500 and it's not had the result we would have hoped
for in terms of an apologies if anything I'm about says
patronizing. By the way, Sony, because I
don't know if you know the the numbers, but behind this on this
agency side. But for an alert to go out on
right move some an agent needs to reduce the asking price by a
minimum of 2%. The house is on at 500.
It needs to go down to 490. Anyone who's got a notification
set up on right move will get an e-mail or it's actually lasts 24
hours, 3 days, seven days, what, 14 days it will come up.
The amount of times I see estate agents changed them from 500 to
495. No one.
Really. Yeah, no one knows the price has
changed, but with Zoopra and on the market, it's 3%.
So if the agent from multiple portals, they should be saying
to a seller, by the way, if you're on at 500, if we want to
make sure we're capturing all the eyeballs across all the
portals, we need to change your price to 485.
Now the other thing on it is for on the way the price brackets
were between 4 and 500. They're 25 grand brackets.
So being on a correct price point, so minimal maximum, you
get 16% more views. If you're on at 500, I'm the I'm
the agent now you're the owner. It's on at 500.
It's been on a month. We've had no interest.
The advice is should be we need to get into the next price
point, which is 475. I mean, that's a 25 grand cut
there. Well, here's an alternative for
you. You could invest 5000 lbs, not
change your price. We re photograph a property now
it's staged rather than empty. Yep.
See how we go. Would you would you be prepared
to invest 5000 LB rather than feel like a 25 grand off?
I think a lot of sellers would go, yeah, OK, I'll do that.
Well, that's and that's it. I mean, I've got so many
questions off the back of that. But the, the point I would make
is one of the points I make and I've got it in my, in my slide
deck, is the price of staging is less than your, than your first
price reduction. So like you said, you know, if
you're, if you're on a 500 and you want to get that next range,
kind of scoop up the next range of buyers who might, who might,
who might pay above 475. But then they've said their
budget's 475. You know, it's like something
you're going to buy, go buy a car or ATV or whatever.
Bought a new Luton the other day.
It's not particularly exciting, but went in with a 10K budget,
came out spending 15, you know what I mean?
So, so everyone always has always got a budget.
But yeah, people will for the right thing and people aren't
going to fall in love with your empty property even at 475.
They're going to be looking at it very much, kind of almost
with a business head on. You know, where, how close to,
to, to, to the train station is it, where are schools?
How you know all those sorts of things?
What's the square footage? What does it need as opposed to
walking in? What I always say is buyers
think about a property purchase before they get there.
They've already done the thinking generally right.
You know, where is it? How big is it?
The. When they walk in, you want them
to stop thinking. You want them to start feeling.
You know there's there's head and there's heart.
You want the heart to start going and then to be saying
words like I love it. I can imagine ourselves here on
a Sunday evening having a dinner party or imagine the kids
outside or, you know, you want them to.
You've got that. Like I said before, there's this
small window of opportunity for such.
There's so much bang for the buck that they can get out of
those 15 minutes or 20 minutes viewing time that you want that
time to be maximised. So they're, they're walking
around saying I love it, I love it, I love it.
Oh wow, wow, wow. Not.
And where would the sofa go? Would my bed fit if if they're
thinking on a viewing you've had it is is is kind of my my take
on it. If they're not feeling and
saying all these words, these positive words, I mean, to be
fair, they might hate it, right? I mean not not a stage property,
but but they might. Not actually.
No, not one of mine. No, definitely not one of mine.
I mean, we don't know. I haven't had it yet, but but
they might, they might think actually the layout's all wrong
and to knock a wall down, it'd be too much work.
Or, I don't know, there's something I couldn't see on the
photos, whatever. Right?
And and that's, and that's fine. But if if it's the right
property, marked it properly staged or presented well
marketed, well for, you know, for my money in my head.
And again, sort of, you know, 20th of sales or recruitment,
but sales experience, if people aren't loving it when they're
walking around, then you've you've, you've, you've missed,
you've missed it, you missed opportunity.
Yeah, this. I don't know if it's going to
have any relevance whatsoever to what you said, but in my weird
brain it does. I'm, I'm heading down to London
later today as I've got an event down there and you got me
thinking about when I check into my hotel room.
I find it frustrating when I check into a hotel room and I'm
having to figure out where I'm going to put my suitcase or
right where's, where can I perch myself to do that Zoom call in
the morning or something. And then when I walk straight
into a hotel room, I want to go desk is right there.
There's a chart, there's a plug right next to where like the
TV's air suite. Oh, we've got coffee ready towel
like perfect. And then you, you walk in being
like, that's a relief. That's all like iron is in there
because I need to wear my T-shirt.
Whatever. And it's a bit like, so you're
saying about what the buyers are thinking about before they get
there. It very, very bad.
Estate agents will, for example, on a Victor a Victorian terrace
in Newport Pagnell town centre, which doesn't have any off road
parking, the estate agent will go and park straight outside the
front door because that's beautiful for them.
What they should be doing is parking, you know, as far away
from the house as they can so that there is reasonable space
for someone to park outside the property.
Like I would never, I'd never park on someone's driveway when
I'm doing a viewing and you'd say.
Like they've got to drive around the park.
Yeah, hey, Sonia, 3:00 Saturday. Pull up straight onto the drive
like you're more than welcome to park there because you want them
to park on that drive and be like, oh, great, right,
Shopping, kids, getting them out the car, get them into the house
if they've had to park halfway around the corner.
It's a bit shit, isn't it? Exactly.
You want them to emulate everything and have that feeling
of them living there, right? Like I said before, if, if
they're thinking when they're walking around that property on
a viewing, you're it's, it's, it's a wasted opportunity.
It's you want them to be, to be, to be feeling.
I mean, the other stat as well, 90% of people can't visualize an
empty space, right? So the, the, the vast majority,
but almost almost 10 out of 10, nine out of 10, maybe that one
person in, in that 10 is me. I don't know, even sometimes I
struggle. I walk into properties and I
think, Oh my God, what are we going to do?
Especially when there's small bedrooms, but you know, we've
got small double S and stuff like that.
But, but quite, but you know, most, most people can't walk in
because it's too overwhelming. There's too much, they're
walking into a new property they've never seen before.
They've got all these other things.
They're sort of standing there. You know, you've got, like I
said, sort of 15 or 20 minutes maybe you've had to pay for
parking because your estate agent hasn't, hasn't let you
park in the, the driveway outside.
And it's, it's too much to think about.
It's too much to like make it easy for people to visualise,
you know, and also what if they want to sit, you know, what if
they want to sit down? And, you know, I know when I've
looked at properties, I've sat on the sofa and just kind of sat
and looked around or sat at the kitchen table or a bath stall or
something, or sat on, you know, perched myself on the end of the
bed just kind of looking around. People need to sit in a, in a
property to fall in love with it.
It's not, you know, it's not kind of starting to book
Donald's drive through where you, you know, you grab and go
and 5 minutes later, you know, you're done.
It's this is a, a huge purchase, potentially A lifelong purchase
or, you know, definitely a chunk of their life.
And there's no way people are going to fall in love with an
empty space. So no one ever has said when
I've walked into an empty property I love it versus it
being staged just hasn't doesn't happen.
I'm going to slightly challenge you, but it does actually agree
with you at the same time and I can't remember if I told you
this when we caught up previously.
So this house I live in now, very Long story short I sold it
as a probate property. Late 70s early 80s build.
Absolute shit hole. And I kept evaluating.
I was like why on earth would someone buy this it's horrible.
Lady did a renovation on it, asked me to come back out a year
later and it was empty but it had the smell of fresh paint,
lovely fresh carpets on your feet and the new kitchen, new
bathroom in and I went I'll buy it.
So that's why I'm changing because it was empty.
But what I'm agreeing with is that I couldn't visualize the
space but it could be 6 to 12 months prior not I just didn't
visualize it and then saw it what it was.
Then whilst there wasn't furniture in here, it had some
nice light fittings and stuff and I was like this is.
Pretty nice right But also I guess, but in that scenario,
because you'd seen it beforehand and you had history you had
history of it you know versus imagine with all that stuff done
where she'd done the amazing work smell of paint nice you
know light fittings, but then also had beautiful furniture in
there nice plush comfy beds. You probably would have liked it
even more. Let's.
Let's Yeah, yeah, yeah. And probably.
Would have paid for being here, Simon.
Yeah, probably. Probably would have paid more
money as well. So yeah, I there was something
else that was on my mind that I was going to say off the back
what you were saying, and it has completely escaped my mind.
That's very annoying. Come back.
Yeah, hopefully it will come back.
So in terms of staging, it's really annoying me now that I'm
not remembering what that was. I was going to say I didn't want
to end the podcast on me saying or I'm going to challenge and
disagree with what Sonia said because it wasn't, it wasn't a
great. It wasn't a great.
No, I know what you mean. And I think also, I guess as a
caveat to what I said in terms of like no one walks in and says
I love it. Like there, there will be
properties that people love because it's got character.
It's got a beautiful garden It you know what I mean?
I'm, I'm talking about there's a walking in.
I guess what, what I'm talking about, it's not kind of one or
the other. It's more of a they're going to
love it more and put an offer in that you'll love more Mr. Mr.
Mr. Mr. and Mrs. Seller or estate agent than if it's empty
because it starts to pull on the heartstrings.
What was the question, Simon? Ask it quickly before you
forget. No, I've, I've remembered now,
so I'm just going over to my other screen.
So when I, when I spoke at the home staging conference late
last year, I, I spoke about this.
So Zoop is it? That is it, huh?
Didn't. Know you're at that.
Yeah, I spoke, I spoke at it. So August 2024 Zoopa trials
cutting edge eye tracking technology to reveal what
British home buyers really look at when viewing a home, with new
research revealing it to be a £13,000 a minute decision for
thousands of buyers. So the the home's structure,
including flooring and ceilings and 38% of the share of
attention with cosmetics and furnishings earning 54%.
It found just half. So 50% of prospective home
buyers would check something as important as the boiler and
fewer check the water pressure, 25% Wi-Fi strength, 24% attic,
23% seller, 17%, 1/4 admit to looking at pictures of the
family that live there, the home technology.
And then furthermore, 31% look at flowers, 37% admire the
furniture and 14% could be stretching the boundaries of
what is acceptable by rummaging through drawers and cabinets.
And one innate said they actually looked at how
comfortable the owner's bed and sofa is.
So basically the point of it is that they're spending more time
looking at pictures, flowers and furniture, which isn't going to
be in that house when they move there.
Yeah, that's an advert for staging.
I don't know what it is, no. Exactly because people's minds,
there's so much going on in them, right?
So you, you, you provide an empty space.
There's nothing for your mind to bounce off of.
I know when we've, and you know, I kind of do this on purpose
with again, it depends on the property, but maybe first, you
know, especially kind of first time, first time buyer, maybe
Shoreditch, that sort of that sort of generation and that type
of buyer. I'll make sure that I put in
something that's a little bit not not wacky, like we're not
going crazy, but a standout piece.
Would there be a piece of art, a piece of decor, a piece of
furniture that really smacks people between the eyes and
grabs their attention because that's what you want?
People will go like, oh, yeah, the one with that sofa.
I love that sofa. We're not buying the sofa.
I mean, you can, we can sell the furniture, but that's not the
point. You know, people get so invested
in what's in the property versus the property itself because they
want to feel, you know, they want to feel like it's a
supported decision, like it's the right decision when they're
walking in. And if they're walking in and
you know, they're getting all this kind of dopamine from all
these lovely things and like you said, the flowers, the whatever
artwork, mirrors, decor furniture is putting them in
that that really dopamine heavy. Like, you know that, you know,
the kick that you get out of something like buying something
or whatever is, is that what you want them to be Isn't always
kind of in that safe space where they're feeling like everything
around them supports that decision.
And you know, you strip everything away like that
research suggests you strip everything away and there's
nothing for their brain to bounce off of.
It's just you're just looking at the four walls and that's it.
Maybe a garden if you're lucky. And actually to go back so on
this house, so I didn't have a vision before then I saw what it
was nice fresh carpet. It's a fresh smell of paint.
Da, da, da, da. Actually, I'd forgotten that
Going back to your point of the things before getting in the
house on kind of where the right part of town is, 2 minutes from
a a nursery in first school, 2 minutes from a shop, 2 minutes
from a nice pub, 2 minutes from the motorway, 5 minutes from a
train station. So all those other things going
on in my head of this is the other end of town and it's
perfect for my life. So again, try to make it as easy
as possible for someone to, let's say, fall in love with a
home. Most estate agents marketing
will say low level WCUPVC, windows laid to lawn, garden,
all that crap. But actually it should be a, you
know, are you someone who needs good access to training
stations? You're in London or do you fly a
lot because you're 30 minutes from an airport?
Or have you got little ones? You've got a nursing school
round the court. It needs to be selling that
lifestyle, not just the bricks and mortar.
Exactly. And I think I might ask you a
question actually, if that's all right.
So when so when you're an agent or even even just data now what
percentage of sales don't go through IE buyer puts in an
offer, but they pull out before they have to exchange.
Do you know is there a? Stat, yeah, depends what data
you look at. There used to always be saying
it was about a third, but the data I look at is I'd say it's
more like 25%. So one in four sales that are
agreed don't actually complete. Yeah.
And I think the, and I don't have AI looked for for data in
this and I couldn't find it because it's kind of too hard to
record. But I would say the if you have
staged your property, it's far, far more likely for that offer
to go through and exchange and complete if if the person loves
it. And that's what I'm saying they,
you know, you want them to be walking around saying, oh, wow,
I love it versus or I didn't really get a feeling with that
one because, you know, again, it's the head and the heart.
Like you put an offer in, you've got all the, all the numbers in
front of you. Here's the asking price.
I don't know, here's the distance from a train station.
Here's the amount left on the lease.
Here's the mortgage repayment. Here's the councillors.
They're all numbers, right? That's all.
That's just that's just spreadsheet fodder.
But what you want, what people are less likely to do is if they
absolutely love something, say, Oh, no, now I'm walking away
like, you know what I mean? They're they're emotionally
invested at this point. So, so on a so on a more logical
over emotional side, when you said earlier, stage properties
sell quicker. And then if you're staging
something rather than price producing it, where I'm going
with this is that it's statistically proven that the
longer it takes you to find a buyer, the more likely that sale
is to fall through. And if you price reduce a
property, it's more likely to fall through.
So like the psychology behind it is a buyer looks at a property
and goes, I like this, I want to buy it.
But if it was on for three months and had a price
reduction, there's this little niggle in their head of why is
there no social proof that anyone else wanted to buy it?
So if something goes wrong seller about they can't find
this initial on a survey. There's so many other properties
available at the moment. The buyer might just go to know
what I'm just going to jump shit.
Whereas if I go view a property in the first week of marketing
that's being staged and there's other people looking at it and
offering, I'm like, this is the one I want to buy.
Other people like it. Social proof, you know, we want
what other people want to have. So I think that's a very
valuable and powerful in terms of the logical side of it as
well. It's 100% and I think this is
where in my experience, where I've seen self-employed agents
do this really well. They stack the viewings next to
each other, right? So you might have a 15 or 20
minutes slot, mainly because they can't be in too many places
at once because you know, if you've got a branch, you might
have six or seven people that can do viewing.
So you might have one here and one there.
But you know, if you're at that property and it's just you, you
know, you stack them especially. And I ended up going to one once
had to grab some stuff out and then some people coming out and
some people going in, you know, the people going in and
listening for the listening for the the noises and they're
coming out and go, I love it. I love it.
And they're going, oh, I love it too.
And all of a sudden everyone loves it, right, As opposed to
walking in when it's just a, you know, kind of a don't know,
Tuesday at 2:00 PM walking in. But it all again, all all of
these, there's probably like some infographic I should do.
Maybe I'll give that to the marketing team thing me, but but
around I mean we've got we've we've churned out a few stats
today, you know, up to 8% more 90% of people can't visualize
half the time on the market. But again, that's all good on
paper, but what actually happens it's that sort of flow of things
in terms of it creates more interest initially.
Therefore it's not going to be sitting on the market for 60
days or 150 days or whatever because that you know, the first
the first almost dominated fall is that going on the portals and
it just looking stunning priced. Well, you know, sales strategy
here, marketing strategy here that both supporting each other,
excellent estate agent kind of lead, you know, leading that
charge. And therefore it does, you know,
the first domino does well because it gets loads of, you
know, loads of views, loads of clicks, loads of engagement.
Second Domino, loads of viewings booked in.
People, people are back-to-back, people passing each other in the
whole. There's that excitement, there's
that fear of missing out, you know, the FOMO of God.
They look really interested. They, you know, we're better
getting before them or whatever. So then therefore you've got
offers on the table, potentially pushing up the price.
It's not going to stay on the market long because you've got
all these offers coming on. It's just like that is the
perfect scenario which staging then creates and it kind of
kicks off that whole momentum. 1.
You know, one of the objections that I get sometimes from from
clients is we'll put it on empty for a few weeks and see how it
goes. Yeah, and I'm like, well, if you
know, it's an option and you know, you're, you haven't said
no, you just want to try, but like, it's, it's a bit of a
silly no, like just do it or do or don't do it.
I mean, do it. But then like you said, you've,
you've wasted the opportunity in the market.
There's opportunity costs. And then because next time it
comes around, people like, oh, hang on, I saw, I saw that
before. Why is it, why does it come back
on what they're trying to hide? And people get suspicious.
I mean, you know, like I said, my, my career in recruitment,
very similar to a state agency. You know, one's a job, one's a
house. Clearly there's lots of other
differences, but you're brokering between two parties.
And the same thing with with jobs, you know, the first two
weeks was when you got the applications, right?
Because after two weeks, especially after a month, and
actually, most job ads are only live for a month where you can
be extended. But after in that sort of second
fortnight and definitely the last week, applications dropped
off because people think, well, they've probably already got the
best applications in or they must.
I won't, you know, if it's if it's been live for two weeks, I
won't apply because they've probably got loads of
applications. Or if it's, you know, 3 weeks, 4
weeks, I won't apply because there's probably something wrong
with the job. It's probably a shit job, you
know, and very similar, you know, background in kind of
marketing and employee brand, the whole, the whole thing.
When a, when a candidate comes in, the candidate experience
versus the buyer experience for property, the candidate
experience when they walk into that office or wherever they're
having the, the meeting or the interview.
You know, you, you want them to be greeted.
You want them to have the best experience ever.
You want them to see, you know, the, them, you know, I don't
know the canteen or, or you know the restaurant or whatever and
where you know, you want to see them.
You want them to experience the buzz of it.
You know, if you, if you said to me like Simon Sonia, sorry, I'm
going to offer you a job, I'm going to, I'm going to hire a
really shit room by the by the hour.
That sounds like something else. But like, you know, at a, at a
like retail park or business park or whatever, there's going
to be no signage. You know what I mean?
Like you, you, I'd be like, well, first of all, it sounds
like a horrible job and why you're doing it there.
But I want to experience that buzz, and I'm more likely to get
engaged and excited and really enthusiastic about the job and
accept it and want to do the best if I can see the whole, you
know, the whole package, which you know, which staging is.
Yeah, that was a really random tangent to go off and sign.
I get it. I.
Really. Apologise.
I love, I love random tangents is what this podcast is all
about. South.
Final question, Sonia, I can't remember if I would have told
you previously, but I have a closing tradition which I've
ripped off from Stephen Bartlett's Diverse CEO podcast.
So he gets the last guest to ask the next guest a question, not
knowing who they are. And he's very cleverly monetized
into these little cards. So I'm just going to ask you a
completely random question. They're different levels, Level
1 being just chilled, Level 3 maybe being quite deep,
personal, intense, maybe childhood trauma or something.
You've got a lot of three. So sorry.
We're already, we're already 10 minutes over.
I mean, how much time? How much time you.
Got Yeah. Make it, Make it.
Make it sharp, Deep, deep question.
What is the hardest thing you have ever had to overcome?
Blimey. And don't say this podcast
conversation. No, I would say my own
nervousness. OK, so as a kid, I was really,
really timid, like super timid. I didn't, I like I couldn't talk
to anyone. Well, no, actually that's not
true. I could talk to it, but I had
real and again, I wouldn't even call it anxiety.
I know sort of everyone like sort of anxiety feels a bit more
popular than what it was in the 80s when I grow up.
But I was just, I was just really nervous, really incident.
I was very academic, like I loved school basically.
I was, I was like the perfect kid in many respects, but I
didn't really have a lot of friends or a lot of social
skills. I wasn't sort of out in the
playground chatting to people, you know, one really good
friend. And I was really happy with
that. So I think that, yeah, the, the
biggest thing and I still get, I still do get like, I still get
nervous, right? But I think the, the, how I've
overcome it. I remember someone saying to me
far left Oz actually, and you're you're a very good actress.
So like me, deep down, I'm still actually quite not very
confident, get quite nervous. But I'm just so used to this
kind of exterior that I've kind of, I don't know, invented that
sounds a bit dramatic, but that I've kind of walked into, I
guess I've kind of created over the years.
And, you know, it's kind of about, you know, trial and
every, you know, after a while when I'm in my, in my 40s now,
you know, I've had 30 odd years of experience, 35 odd years of
experience of how I can, I guess, portray myself in a way
that I like as well. I can't, you know, I like
myself. Now, if I'd gone on as that
small, timid, really kind of nervous child, I would, I
wouldn't be doing this, for instance, I wouldn't have done
all the things that I've done. I'd be, yeah, very much a
different person. Yeah, thanks very much for
sharing that. And it it it, it resonates with
me. I think when you sort of say of
creating that character, I think there's very much a Simon from
opening the gates. And then there's a Simon.
There's definitely, there's definitely two different people.
Person deep down, only you truly know.
Yeah, I can. I can walk on stage and talk in
front of hundreds of estate agents and think there's some
nerves there, but it's an excited energy, right?
But you might, I don't know. I, let's say I go to a, a
wedding with my girlfriend as a + 1.
And I don't know anyone like that.
That's Simon there, not Simon from opening the Gates where I'm
like, Oh my God. Like I couldn't think of
anything worse than not knowing anyone.
Yeah. And she'll be like saying to me,
but you'll go stand on stage in front of hundreds of people and
talk and talk or you'll go meet someone you've never met before.
I'm like, yeah, but it's like I'm in my, it's got this Simon
Gates mask or character where that's you're in your comfort.
So you know what you're doing, if that makes sense.
Yeah, no, I do. I'm kind of the opposite
actually. I would, I would rather hold
court like in a pub of, I don't know, say 50 people that didn't
know whatever just, you know, kind of on that level versus
public speaking. But that is also, that is one
thing that I'm getting better at.
Presented last week at a state agency, state agents conference
on staging. And yeah, it went well, but I I
was definitely a bit nervous beforehand.
It's using that nervous energy as a as a positive, using it to
your advantage. It's easier as well when you've
got something that you're passionate about and you know
well, right, as opposed to standing up and really not
knowing because it's all about the content and you have to come
across genuine and you can't come across genuine if you
haven't done it. Agreed.
Tom Panos from over in Australia gave me some great advice when I
said to him, look, you do a lot of public speaking.
What advice would you give to me is someone who's newer on the
scene, speaking on stages in front of hundreds of agents
like, well, if you're passionate about it and you're an expert
and your knowledge within that field like that will come
across, they're not expecting you to be pitch perfect and know
your presentation word for word. Just your passion will come
across. And in this conversation, your
passion for staging has come across a lot as well.
So for everyone at home listening, please do remember to
like, review, subscribe, follow, share the podcast.
And if you are interested in finding out some more about home
staging, please do reach out to Sonia on socials.
And that just leads me to say, Sonia Townsend, thank you very
much for being an amazing guest. I really appreciate it.
Thank. You.
It's been my pleasure. Thank you.