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Hello and welcome to Opening the
Gates to more listings for 

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Estate agents with me, Simon 
Gates. 

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And I'm delighted to be joined 
today by Sonia Townsend. 

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Sonia, thank you very much for 
joining me. 

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Thank you Simon for inviting me.
Excited to be here. 

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I'm excited to have you on as 
well because it still baffles 

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me, but the home staging world 
is still not as big as it should

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and need to be in the UK. 
So it feels like it's, it's 

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getting there slowly but surely.
So yeah, I'm keen to have this 

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chat. 
I've had a couple of people on 

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before to, to talk about home 
staging and it's always good to 

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get a different opinion on it. 
And in terms of your background,

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you have, if I'm not mistaken, 
bought, sold, developed and let 

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out properties across both 
London and Australia. 

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So you're, you're well, well 
versed in this world to be 

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talking about the do's and 
don'ts of how to make properties

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look good, right? 
They got the got the battle 

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scars to prove it. 
I love property, so yeah, I love

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it. 
And, and I think I read on, I 

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don't know if it was on your 
website or on LinkedIn profile 

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that and it's kind of, it's not 
just across home staging, it's 

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across other things as well, 
whether it's social media, video

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content, learning, it's so much 
more a normal thing in North 

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America and Australia when it 
comes to staging. 

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Exactly. 
I mean, I'm, I'm Australian, not

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that I did it in in Oz. 
I've been here like 25 years, 

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but it is it's massively popular
over there. 

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It's almost like you wouldn't. 
People wouldn't put a property 

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on, empty it, it just wouldn't 
get done. 

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That just wouldn't happen. 
No, it and you know the the 

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first call is to the to the 
realtor. 

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Obviously, especially in 
America, it works a little bit 

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different and, and the realtor 
covers a lot more bases, I think

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than typically the estate agent 
here. 

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But then, you know, the second 
call is to is to a home staging 

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company. 
Whereas here and, and you're 

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right, it does feel like it's, 
it does feel like it's, it's 

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kind of gaining momentum, but I 
don't know if that's just 

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because I'm constantly talking 
about it. 

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So, you know, this is my third, 
my third year in business or in 

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staging business. 
And definitely maybe, you know, 

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maybe like I said, I was talking
to the right people now compared

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to three years ago, but it's 
definitely gaining popularity in

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it. 
And it, you know, when I started

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three years ago, a lot of the 
time I had to explain what is 

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staging like, what everyone's 
like, Oh, I hadn't heard of 

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that. 
They're like, oh, do you mean 

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interior design? 
I'm like, no, not really. 

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Like it's, there's an element of
interior design, but it's not 

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interior design. 
And now the business comes to 

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me, which is, you know, which is
great. 

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So it definitely has, you're 
right, it definitely has gained 

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popularity and awareness. 
So you said so guys, a few 

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things I want to ask off back 
what you were just saying, but 

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that last bit there of some 
business coming to you now. 

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So it obviously didn't start 
like that three years ago. 

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So for anyone listening, whether
they're an estate agent, a 

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stager, a mortgage broker, A 
conveyancer, and they're like I 

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want to get more people coming 
to me. 

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How have you got to that after 
three years? 

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Like what would it look like 
from the start to go from 

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chasing business down to having 
it come to you? 

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Good question. 
So I mean, my background before 

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this, I was 20 years in a 
corporate career and a chunk of 

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that was in recruitment. 
It was always kind of 

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recruitment and marketing. 
So, you know, I, I had AI, got a

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degree in marketing, came to 
London, you know, for 12 months,

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25 years ago, thinking I'd be 
pulling some pints in a, in a 

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bar. 
Fell into recruitment because 

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it's kind of it's easy and it's,
and it's fond, at least it was 

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back then. 
So I'm used to canvassing, 

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picking up the phone, you know, 
the the first three months of of

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my business, it was literally me
I took, I tried working from 

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home. 
God, sorry. 

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My cat just just jumped on the 
coffee table. 

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Sorry, that's live. 
Done it again. 

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Oh gosh, right. 
Something to get fixed. 

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Sorry, Simon. 
Sorry everyone. 

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So I, yeah, the first three 
months was just me picking up 

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the phone, just phone call after
phone call after phone call, 

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introducing myself, following up
with emails. 

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And then I took a Co like a 
membership and a Co working 

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space in like near where I live 
just because I I found after a 

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couple of weeks, I just couldn't
work from home. 

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I couldn't motivate myself 
after, you know, 20 years in a 

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in a career, you know, in a job 
and just would just walk up and 

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down high streets and just walk 
into estate agents and say 

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hello, This is who I am. 
And one of the first actually 

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the first client I got was off 
the back of that because they 

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were quite close to the Co 
working space. 

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And I just used to just just sit
sitting there making a bit of a 

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nuisance of myself. 
But it was, you know, it was 

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good. 
Everyone, estate agents are 

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people people, but they they 
should be, you know, the most, 

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you know, they should be. 
If they're not, maybe they're in

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the wrong job, but you know, 
they like people that they're 

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interactive, they're engaging. 
So yeah, it was just, it was a 

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lot of that. 
And then that obviously, you 

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know, one job leads to two leads
to three and so on and so forth.

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And then, you know, getting in 
with with certain brands is 

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good, like certain estate 
agency, estate agency brands and

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you get referred within that 
business. 

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So yeah, like anything, it's, 
you know, it's going to start 

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somewhere. 
But yeah, like I said, picking 

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up, picking up the phone, making
to make sort of 5060 cold calls 

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a day. 
I love it. 

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And actually I want to get back 
to that. 

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Working in staging is quite 
hands on. 

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You know, it's very is, I mean 
physical in terms of listing 

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stuff, but it's very, very hands
on. 

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I sort of want to get out of the
day-to-day operations of the 

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business and back to the stuff I
love, which is the the business 

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development and the sales. 
OK, cool. 

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It's like, I guess the world we 
now like live in in 2026 and of 

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recent years is everyone wants 
to have like an attraction brand

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and it's I just want to put out 
lovely stuff on on Instagram and

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record some videos and just wait
for the phone to ring in the 300

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plus episodes I've done asking 
that question, whether it's 

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stager, estate agent, whatever, 
where did business start? 

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I never rarely find someone 
goes. 

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Oh, well, I just recorded a load
of video and people came to me. 

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It's normally it's not. 
I had to bang some doors down. 

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I had to rub these off and work 
really hard. 

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Then I did a good job, people. 
People spoke positively about 

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me, referred, and then it 
snowballs from there. 

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But I feel like there's quite a 
few people who, yeah, don't want

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to get their hands dirty to 
start. 

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It's, it's hard, right? 
And if you're not used to it, 

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and it's a really good point 
because I think there are, there

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are a lot of home stages coming 
into the market. 

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There's, there's sort of 
different courses and, and 

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people that are sort of churning
out home stages into, into the 

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market and which I think is 
great for the, for the sector, 

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for the industry. 
You know, the more people in it,

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the more people talking about 
it, the more awareness, the more

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it will definitely take off. 
But I think what some people 

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don't realise is they think, oh,
home staging is kind of fluffing

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cushions. 
And if you like interior design,

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yeah, there's a bit of that, but
it's such a small percent. 

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It's, it's a business, right? 
Like any business, you've got to

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go and win the business. 
You've got to develop 

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relationships. 
You've got to, like you said, 

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you know, deliver on your 
promise and and deliver 

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brilliant customer service. 
But you've got to go and create 

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those relationships. 
And those networks initially 

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with estate agents who are 
probably about 80% of my, my, my

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business, 20% comes direct. 
But you're the thing with state 

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agents, like you're, you're 
there to help them. 

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You know, staging is a win win. 
It's almost like a free 

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marketing service for them 
because this agent obviously 

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doesn't pay for it. 
Sometimes in the states they do 

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again, a slightly different 
model, you know, especially the,

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the higher, higher end, like 
luxury end. 

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But for them it, it, it's a, 
it's a no brainer because the 

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the client is paying for it. 
The client will get a higher 

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offer and a quicker sale. 
Therefore the estate agent will 

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make more Commission and get a 
quicker sale. 

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You know, I get to keep a 
business and pay the mortgage 

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each month. 
So it's and the buyer ultimately

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can obviously see what they're 
buying and kind of visualise, 

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you know, the home versus the 
empty flat or the empty house. 

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I looked at your website earlier
today in Regan's physical 

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conversation, and it was just 
astonishing the difference that 

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staging makes when you had the 
before and after. 

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Like, here's what I start again,
here's what an empty home looks 

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like. 
And you're like, that doesn't 

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look very like warm, welcoming 
or exciting. 

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And then bang, see the picture 
next with the furniture. 

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I'm like, that looks really 
nice, like something I'd want to

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buy and live in. 
Yeah, it's true. 

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And I think I mean, you're 100% 
right. 

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You know, there's so many stats 
and I'm sure I can sort of churn

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some out at you in a SEC. 
But it's, you know, a house or 

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your your home, it's the biggest
financial decision you're bound 

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to make, right. 
And what I've always found 

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astonishing is the amount of 
time. 

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It's almost like time versus 
cost analysis. 

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You know, you spend what, 1520 
minutes out of viewing. 

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But but it's something like, you
know, if you work that out, 

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what's that 6060 grand a minute,
you know, in terms of the amount

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of time that you're spending 
versus what you're what you're 

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buying at the end of it. 
And I mean, there's two points 

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to follow up with that. 
So I mean, empty properties, no 

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one's going to get excited about
it, right? 

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Unless you're unless you're 
buying a project, right? 

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Unless you know that you're 
going to RIP out walls, you 

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know, maybe an elderly person 
was living there or whatever. 

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Like it hasn't been done up or 
refurbished for ages. 

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But the thing with staging. 
And then this is another point 

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around just chucking some 
furniture in. 

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So this is a good point to make.
We can come back to it if you 

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want. 
But I've also worked with a few 

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clients who have decided to go 
down there. 

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Oh, we'll do it ourselves route.
OK, but it's not staging, right.

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Chucking in a few bits of 
furniture is very different 

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because what what I aim to do 
and what staging should aim to 

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do is when the buyer is looking 
at that ad on, on one of the 

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portals and then when they go 
in, you want them to say, well, 

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right. 
If they're not saying, well, I 

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haven't done my job properly. 
It's not just a oh, it's got 

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some furniture in and you know, 
a couple of plants in the corner

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and you know what I mean? 
It's not you're not just filling

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a void. 
You're creating this whole 

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elevated experience for a 
potential buyer. 

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So that one is head and 
shoulders above the rest. 

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It's not even just like here it 
is staged with some furniture 

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and here it was empty. 
You know, here's an empty 

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property. 
Here's just conscious that 

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people might not be watching 
this, but you know, first, first

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one's empty property, second 
one's someone is living in it. 

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Next one, the one that people, 
you know, it's the showstopper 

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is the stage property. 
Because you know, I've got the 

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best job in the world. 
I can make it look amazing, 

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right? 
You know, texture, different 

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lighting, different furniture, 
You know, it's, it's very, I'm 

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in a really fortunate position 
to someone that's living in it. 

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I mean, if you look at look at 
my flat, you wouldn't know them 

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home stages. 
Seriously, because we live in, 

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you know, we live in our homes, 
right? 

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But when you're staging it, 
you're not having to, you're not

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having to kind of there's no one
living in it apart from when 

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00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:42,960
there is. 
And that's occupied staging, 

223
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:44,040
which we can come on to in a 
SEC. 

224
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,440
But it's is that is that 
difference between, oh, there's 

225
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,280
some furniture in it, It doesn't
look empty. 

226
00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,600
And then the next like the 
elevated thing where people are 

227
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,960
like that's, that's fantastic. 
It just looks awesome. 

228
00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:55,800
And they fall in love 
immediately when they walk in. 

229
00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:02,000
So on the staging side of 
things, we were talking before 

230
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,040
we hit record and you said how 
my office looked different from 

231
00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,040
the last time you caught up 
because I've got rid of all 

232
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,040
their, yeah, sports memorabilia 
in all my books. 

233
00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,480
And that is as, as I said to 
you, in readiness of looking to 

234
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,720
sell in the near future. 
And it is mad like when you talk

235
00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:22,840
about time versus cost, like the
value of the asset, whether 

236
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,880
you're buying or selling it, 
it's mad we don't spend more 

237
00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,560
time on it. 
Like so when I sold my first 

238
00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:33,000
house in 2019, right, We're 
going to go from live mode to 

239
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,520
sell mode. 
We're going to get, you know, 

240
00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,200
jet washed the Conservatory, 
make sure the garden is all like

241
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,200
spick and spam, right? 
It's going on the market this 

242
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,200
weekend and sold it within a 
week. 

243
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:52,600
The way my property looked in 
the photos and the I don't know,

244
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,200
we sold it within a few 
viewings. 

245
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:56,600
The way it looks in the photos 
and a few viewings. 

246
00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,040
It didn't look like that in 
three years. 

247
00:11:58,040 --> 00:11:59,720
I live there. 
Not for what? 

248
00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,640
Not for one day, but you made it
look a certain way. 

249
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:08,880
Yeah 2 examples I'll give you 
when I have traded in cars over 

250
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,880
the years. 
Do I have my smelly golf shoes, 

251
00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,400
my golf clubs and all the dog 
hair in the car? 

252
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,320
No, that's all taken out and I 
go and get it balloted before 

253
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,080
the car dealer looks at it. 
Golf clubs. 

254
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,960
I used to sell a lot of golf 
clubs when I was younger to try 

255
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,480
and make a bit of money. 
I'd buy crappy old golf clubs on

256
00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:33,320
eBay, like re grip them, clean 
the grooves of the club and I'd 

257
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,240
sell it back on eBay at a higher
price. 

258
00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:39,840
Yeah, made them look better and 
like golf clubs, cars, like 

259
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,320
smaller things there. 
Yeah, with a house it's just 

260
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,560
I'll just whack it on right move
and and hope for the best. 

261
00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:48,360
But I think I'm being interested
to get your thoughts on this. 

262
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,840
But in a lot of bigger 
organisations where they're very

263
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,080
KPI driven targets, I'm just 
thinking I need to get this on 

264
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,960
to hit my target by the end of 
the week rather than slow things

265
00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,320
down and going. 
Sonia, I would actually 

266
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,880
recommend that you speak to this
home staging company because 

267
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,240
there's a few bits you should do
to make it more appealing, 

268
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,080
increase availability, value, 
and if we down for a second, 

269
00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,120
we'll actually increase your 
chances of selling, speed up the

270
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,160
sale and maybe get you more 
money at the same time. 

271
00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,240
But most businesses are not 
geared up for the interests of 

272
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:20,680
the client. 
They're geared up to hit their 

273
00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:22,560
targets. 
Be honest, yeah. 

274
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:24,880
And I completely understand. 
No, I completely get that. 

275
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,320
And and I think that in a way 
it's, it's kind of cutting your 

276
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,200
nose off to spite your face, 
isn't it? 

277
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,120
But I, but I do get it. 
If you're, you know, if you're 

278
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,520
High Street brand or you know 
any, any agent brand 1-2 and 

279
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,240
three and you go out on 
evaluation, you really want to 

280
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,680
close that deal and get that 
seller to list with you. 

281
00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:46,320
Because if you say, look, I 
reckon I'd give yourself a month

282
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,040
to do all these odd jobs and 
whatever. 

283
00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:49,760
In that month, you know that 
someone else is going to come in

284
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,520
and, and, and undercut you or 
come back and go, no, we, we 

285
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,440
want it on now. 
It's perfect the way it is and 

286
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,280
everyone on everyone knows it's 
not but obviously these sort of 

287
00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,680
uninformed sellers going to 
think, well, actually, yeah, 

288
00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:02,480
maybe it is OK, maybe I don't 
need to paint these walls. 

289
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:03,760
Maybe I don't need to replace 
the carpet. 

290
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,000
Maybe I don't need to declutter 
or do do this, this and this, 

291
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,200
which then it's a race to the 
bottom because we will know, you

292
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,120
know, a better presented 
property will all the KP, you 

293
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,800
know, so we can KPI's, all the 
KPI's will be better in terms of

294
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:20,680
the the engagement online, the 
click throughs, the, you know, 

295
00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,600
requests to to view, et cetera. 
And then ultimately, you know, 

296
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,200
offers and an offer price. 
So it is a bit sad in that 

297
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:28,960
respect. 
But I you know, again, I 

298
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,760
completely appreciate where 
agents are coming from because 

299
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,480
it is such a competitive 
marketplace, but I think there 

300
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,200
needs to be, I would hope 
there'll be more of a 

301
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:42,360
consultative sell with an agent 
versus Hi, Mr. Smith, saw you 

302
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,520
saw your house today. 
I think it could do with some 

303
00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:45,640
work, but I'm not going to tell 
you. 

304
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,640
Yeah, this with me. 
Yeah, I, I think that the more 

305
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,280
consultative approach are the 
ones who have the higher 

306
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,760
propensity to sell. 
So I those, those types of 

307
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:57,880
agents who have a consultative 
approach and I've, I've worked 

308
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,920
with plenty of, you know, 
they're selling 7080% of 

309
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,920
properties that they list, Yet 
you've got the agent who goes, 

310
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,000
Nah, it doesn't smell a dog. 
Nah, you don't need to replace 

311
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,800
the carpet. 
Yeah, you'll get 500 grand for 

312
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,160
it. 
And then they're they're that 

313
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,480
agent who sells 50% of what they
list. 

314
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:18,920
And then after four weeks, 
they're ringing up the owner 

315
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:20,560
going, yeah, we need to drop the
price. 

316
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,560
The market's not very good. 
And you know, you told me you 

317
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,480
get that price. 
So I get what you're saying as 

318
00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:31,280
well about the competitive 
market where I'm an agent who go

319
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:37,960
who's thinking they need home 
staging to have a better 

320
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,760
outcome. 
But I know that they've got John

321
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,520
Smith coming in after me and 
he's going to overvalue it, do a

322
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,240
cheap thing and tell him it 
looks fine. 

323
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,560
So I'll so I'll just I'll, I'll 
scrap what I need to tell them 

324
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:51,560
and just tell them what what 
they want to hear. 

325
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,560
But you kind of that race to the
bottom. 

326
00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,440
I think you, you, you said 
actually, you really need to 

327
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:04,200
push into the home staging and 
use it as ausp and be the only 

328
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,360
agent who says it and tells them
the truth. 

329
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,080
Tell them what they need to 
hear, not what they want to 

330
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:09,960
hear. 
And if they're the right sort of

331
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,360
client, they'll buy into that. 
They'll lean into it and and 

332
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,640
they'll do something 'cause 
otherwise you just go with 

333
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,480
someone with too much money and 
it's not in very good condition 

334
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:20,920
or it's not going to sell, 
you're not going to earn any 

335
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,080
money. 
So it. 

336
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,880
Exactly. 
It's it's it's that KPI dance, 

337
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:27,480
isn't it? 
Well, you know, especially if 

338
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:32,000
one of the KP is, is, you know, 
valuations and then listings and

339
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,000
and boards in the street. 
So I do, yeah, I do get it. 

340
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,720
However, what I would say 
though, and I have plenty of 

341
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:43,280
clients come to me direct. 
So bearing in mind kind of, I 

342
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,160
mean by sheer virtue, the client
isn't living in the property 

343
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,160
when we're doing, you know, a 
vacant stage. 

344
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,760
So where do they live? 
A lot of people live America, 

345
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,240
Australia, Dubai, Asia, you 
know, there's still that kind of

346
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,400
post COVID bubble where they've 
moved out of London to, I know, 

347
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,120
Somerset or whatever, just to 
have a bit of a, you know, bit 

348
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:02,840
more land and a bit more of a 
lifestyle. 

349
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,200
But more often than not, I do, 
like I said before, it's, it's, 

350
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,720
I mean, it's probably a bit more
than 20% now, maybe 25%. 

351
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:14,000
So I still get a fair chunk of 
business coming to me direct. 

352
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:16,839
So I think even though it might 
be tempting for an agent to say 

353
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:19,640
no, that's fine, just leave it. 
We'll, we'll whack it on empty. 

354
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,000
There is enough awareness out 
there with sellers, especially 

355
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,240
slightly savvy of sellers. 
I mean, also, you know, when I 

356
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,080
started three years ago, AI was 
around like that's half the 

357
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,200
reason I left my old job. 
But you know, AI was around, but

358
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,560
it's much it's much more 
prevalent now sellers again, not

359
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,640
all, but a lot will probably put
something into ChatGPT or Claude

360
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,360
or whatever and go look, I'm 
looking at selling my property 

361
00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:44,080
that what do you suggest? 
And staging will come up, you 

362
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:45,920
know, so will all the other 
things, you know, in terms of 

363
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,120
doing any, you know, painting, 
decorating or whatever. 

364
00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:52,280
So, so I think it's, it's an 
interesting time and it's a time

365
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:56,320
where agents, I guess it kind of
flushes out the ones that are 

366
00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:00,000
there for a quick listing and a 
quick sale versus the ones that 

367
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,800
are consultative that have got 
the client's best interests at 

368
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:04,920
heart. 
And we'll have a tough 

369
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,200
conversation with a client and 
say, look, you, you have to 

370
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,880
spend a few grand, but you'll 
make it back, right? 

371
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,040
And again, I can, you know, give
you some stats in a minute, but 

372
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,600
it's, you know, it's, it's not 
a, it's not a cost. 

373
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,160
And also, like I said before, 
it's a win win. 

374
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,120
So yeah, there might be that 
race to the bottom with the 

375
00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:22,680
unprepared agent, but the ones 
that have got the experience, 

376
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,360
the client's best interests at 
heart and also the, you know, 

377
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:29,600
the sellers and want to do the 
best job possible. 

378
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,120
They will recommend whether it 
be staging, painting, whatever 

379
00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:35,440
it might be, you know, they'll, 
they'll, they'll have those 

380
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,240
difficult conversations and 
ultimately they're there. 

381
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,720
And those conversations are 
there to to return or to 

382
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,880
maximise the client's return on 
their investment. 

383
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:46,800
You know their house, their 
flat, or if it, you know if it 

384
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:51,360
is an investment. 
So on the, you said about you've

385
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:54,400
got vacant staging or you've 
got, you know, a house that's 

386
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,120
lived in, what's the, what's the
percentages between what 

387
00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:01,120
percentage do you do is vacant 
versus not? 

388
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,880
Question, so your typical 
vacant, you know been tentative 

389
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:07,240
for a few years, tenants have 
moved out. 

390
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:09,640
I would say it's about 90% of a 
business. 

391
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,520
A we, I, I've, we don't get them
a lot, but I've probably, I've 

392
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:20,000
done a few occupied staging jobs
where actually there's one at 

393
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:26,600
the minute that, that we've done
where a, a client has has served

394
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,440
notice on kind of permanent 
tenants to get them out, but 

395
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,040
might have a tenant in their 
short term. 

396
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,080
Sometimes, you know, a friend or
whatever, basically just to keep

397
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,240
the mortgage ticking over and 
make sure it's not empty. 

398
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,800
So those ones, so those ones 
we've done and with them trying 

399
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,400
to sort of hit best of both 
worlds because you want it to 

400
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,360
look like it's staged. 
But obviously someone's going to

401
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:48,560
be sleeping in the bed, sitting 
on the sofa, eating at the 

402
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:49,720
dining table, you know what I 
mean? 

403
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,400
Like, you know, all all the 
stuff that we put in, I mean, 

404
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,720
the, you know, the sofas, 
especially that I put in they, I

405
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,000
mean, they look amazing, but 
they're horrendously 

406
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,200
uncomfortable to sit on. 
You know, these are, these 

407
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,080
aren't sofas that people buy to 
sit on. 

408
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,840
These are sort of statement 
pieces, you know what I mean? 

409
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,880
Like curvy things and hard backs
and that sort of stuff it. 

410
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,840
You know, my, my sofa I've had 
for about 6 years, it's a good 

411
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,840
old sofa.com big, slouchy, 
really cushy. 

412
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,480
But it, you know, I wouldn't put
it into a, into a staging 

413
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,600
project. 
So there's, so there's those, 

414
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,720
there's those ones. 
And then sometimes there's 

415
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:24,160
almost the part furnished stage,
which again, you know, going 

416
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,400
back to kind of all of it, you 
know, it's mainly X rentals that

417
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,000
we that we work with where 
landlord has gone and bought 

418
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,880
the, you know, the typical 
landlord packaged furniture 

419
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,280
recently enough that it still 
looks in good condition. 

420
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,240
It all matches. 
It's all it all kind of goes 

421
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,240
together. 
And then because we did one 

422
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,600
recently in, in Queenstown Road,
3 bedroom and all the furniture 

423
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,840
matched. 
It was all, all nice looking. 

424
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,840
Just, you know, the beds needed 
dressing there. 

425
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,240
You know, we needed to put down 
rugs and cushions on the sofa 

426
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,480
and some accessories and 
artwork, artwork and mirrors, as

427
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,160
well as where a lot of my money 
goes, especially on on decent 

428
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,360
artwork and decent mirrors. 
So, you know, bedside lamps just

429
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:06,200
just softening it all because 
you know, the everyone can tell 

430
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,560
an ex rental people be like, oh,
it's been rented or what 

431
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:09,680
conditions they're going to be 
in. 

432
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,240
But you wouldn't, it didn't look
ex rental once we're dressed up,

433
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,160
but it did definitely look ex 
rental because it was all like, 

434
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:16,800
you know, very sort of landlord 
furniture. 

435
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:22,600
Yeah, before we started. 
I feel like that ex rental 

436
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,680
market is such a huge one for 
home staging. 

437
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,360
Like the stats from right move 
super. 

438
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:30,760
Is this a EUK average? 
Would be higher in London, but 

439
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,680
around 15 to 20% of properties 
on the market are X rentals and 

440
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,400
like you said, you can spot it a
mile off. 

441
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,800
It doesn't look great online and
that landlord's, you know, 

442
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,000
trying to dispose of it. 
But actually if they've got the 

443
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,560
best advice of if you actually 
invested a little bit of money, 

444
00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:50,600
you'd sell it quicker. 
It wouldn't be empty. 

445
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,600
So you wouldn't have those 
mortgage payments like you'd be 

446
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,800
paying on it. 
But again, just a transaction 

447
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,200
environment where agents will 
just ping it on. 

448
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,720
It's a listing, let's just get 
get on with it. 

449
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,520
But I, yeah, I think that X 
rental was a huge 1. 

450
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,760
You said as well about in terms 
of people coming to you 

451
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,680
directly. 
So you said 2025%. 

452
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,720
I'm curious from again, I guess 
a business development marketing

453
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,320
point of view, where do those 
people find you? 

454
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:27,480
Question Google a lot of the 
time, I mean, there's a reason 

455
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,360
why, you know, with a marketing 
background, there's a reason why

456
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:32,440
I called the company London 
Property Staging. 

457
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,520
I haven't, I've never paid for 
any, any Google search words, 

458
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,960
not to say won't, but haven't 
needed to get a few through 

459
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:44,200
social media, through Instagram.
LinkedIn used to be really quite

460
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,480
sort of active on LinkedIn in my
corporate career. 

461
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,840
It's kind of taken a bit of a 
nosedive recently, but I've had 

462
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,960
a few enquiries through 
LinkedIn, but mainly, mainly 

463
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,200
people just coming through the 
website. 

464
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,520
And, and actually it's a good 
question because I was talking 

465
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,120
to someone the other day and 
they said they, they put the 

466
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:04,280
question into, into AI and it 
and it, you know, brought up my 

467
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,800
name, well, company name London 
property stating so. 

468
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,880
So yeah, this is what I mean 
about buy sellers are getting 

469
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,920
more savvy. 
Well, not even said that that 

470
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,160
means that they weren't savvy 
before. 

471
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,920
I think the tools are there to 
make everyone more savvy now, 

472
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,200
right? 
And it's really easy to find 

473
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,640
advice, whereas before you've 
sort of found information, now 

474
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,000
you find advice. 
So like we started the 

475
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,920
conversation. 
If you don't know about staging 

476
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,560
and still most people don't, a 
lot of people don't. 

477
00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:34,680
But if you don't know about it 
and then you put into Claude or 

478
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,600
ChatGPT and it comes up and then
you start to look into it. 

479
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,120
And especially when there's 
like, you know, there's before 

480
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,200
and afters and there's 
testimonials and there's, 

481
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,040
there's there's data statistics 
on the value of it, IE, you 

482
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,800
know, spend X but you make YZ 
return. 

483
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,880
It's, it's a really interesting,
interesting time. 

484
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,240
Yeah. 
But to to answer your question, 

485
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,480
I mean, I've got to contact us 
form on the website and we get, 

486
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,400
you know, we get quite a few 
enquiries from that, but they've

487
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,200
obviously originated on Google 
or Claw or chat or whatever. 

488
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,840
So something you touched on 
there, which I've written down 

489
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,480
I'm going to be stealing is 
we've kind of, we're moving from

490
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,920
a information world to an advice
world. 

491
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,960
And what I mean by that in terms
of the way I've understood you 

492
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:24,600
spoke is let's say five years 
ago someone typed in, I don't 

493
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,320
know, best estate agent Newport 
Pagnell or property about 

494
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,920
Newport Pagnell. 
That is just kind of how you 

495
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:36,520
would use a search tool, right? 
Today I could do voice and go. 

496
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,720
I've got a three bed property in
Newport Pagnell. 

497
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,160
It was renovated several years 
ago, but it's seen better days. 

498
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,160
I'm thinking of selling it in 
near future. 

499
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:51,560
Do I need to look at giving it a
link of paint or can I just put 

500
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,800
it on the market as it is? 
And that could be like a voice 

501
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,120
command in 10 seconds, right? 
And then AI is going to go. 

502
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,320
Well, actually there's someone 
who says that staging properties

503
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,040
gets you likely to sell quicker 
with more money in your back 

504
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,000
pocket. 
Here's their details. 

505
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:05,640
Oh sweet, let's go check them 
out. 

506
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,640
Yeah. 
And probably probably in terms 

507
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:14,360
of it's most capacity or kind of
best capacity, people don't 

508
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,360
people asking a broad question 
like what is your suggestion? 

509
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:19,680
What should I do? 
They're not leading it. 

510
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,520
So whereas before you, you know,
you'd have to put in, like you 

511
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,440
said, estate agent in your area,
best estate agent, obviously you

512
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,080
get all the sponsored results. 
And then it's just kind of it's,

513
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,680
it's not really it's, it's not, 
it doesn't use any intelligence.

514
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,760
It's a list. 
It's, it's information. 

515
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,640
Now there is, you know, like I 
said, you know, a couple of 

516
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,000
people said to me that they've, 
one in particular said that they

517
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,200
put into ChatGPT and, and 
staging came up and we came up. 

518
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,680
So it's the, yeah, I think, you 
know, like that summary, it's 

519
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,080
people looking for, looking for 
advice, not just information. 

520
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:51,680
Yeah. 
So it's great. 

521
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,920
I mean, it's a great, you know, 
and hence you know, slightly 

522
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,920
smugly why I call it London 
property staging. 

523
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,200
Yeah, yeah, no, love it. 
And you've mentioned a few times

524
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,440
about sort of the stats behind 
it. 

525
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:06,600
So can you share with the 
listeners to any agents who are 

526
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,480
are curious about finding out 
how staging can have an an 

527
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,120
impact? 
Because at the moment about 

528
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,520
it'll be lower in London, but 
about 55% of properties that 

529
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,440
come to market actually end up 
selling. 

530
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,560
Now some of that is a pricing 
issue, some of that is a 

531
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,960
marketing issue and then some of
it is going to be the 

532
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,000
presentation of it. 
I know the the benefits of 

533
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,160
staging, but I want to hear it 
from your expert on on the data 

534
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,920
you've got behind it. 
Yeah, sure. 

535
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,360
So, so the data and these these 
stats are widely available. 

536
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,160
So there's a home staging 
association which is good at 

537
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,520
producing reports based on 
interviews and data they get 

538
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,120
from estate agents and from the 
market. 

539
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:44,560
And then obviously Riot movie is
good as well. 

540
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,640
So all the stats that I've got 
are kind of from those two 

541
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,880
sources. 
So staged properties sell 

542
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:56,160
somewhere around 8% more than 
their for more under offer than 

543
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,160
their unstaged counterparts. 
So, you know, if you're thinking

544
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,160
I haven't done the maths, but 
maybe you could do do the maths 

545
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:04,600
for it. 
I should have said 10% and made 

546
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,400
it easy for me. 
But you know on a on A5, on a 

547
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:14,200
500K property about 40. 
Yeah, 40. 40K more yeah God, 

548
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,840
that was a good guess and but 
more importantly, they sell 

549
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,200
quicker, right. 
So it's in about half the time 

550
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,440
it's and and again, lots of the 
stats are national. 

551
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:31,000
So you know, there is a skew in,
in sort of in London, but by by 

552
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,800
way of example and it has been, 
you know, been complete 

553
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,080
transparent the last well, since
the market tipped right, the 

554
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,440
last sort of 12 months or so 
have been very different to the 

555
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,560
12 months before that. 
Because before if we were having

556
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,400
this conversation say 18 months 
ago comfortably, I would say 

557
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,120
Simon, everything that we staged
goes under offer, if not in the 

558
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:55,360
first weekend, in the first 
week. 

559
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:58,360
And that was true, you know, 
everything was was flying off 

560
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:00,680
compared to it being empty. 
I've got loads of different case

561
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,480
studies and examples where 
properties have been empty for 

562
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,440
2-3 months on the market and 
again there's a change of 

563
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,360
strategy. 
So you know, for me, staging 

564
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:12,720
sits into strategy. 
There's it's the marketing 

565
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,360
strategy and then you've got the
sales strategy. 

566
00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:20,000
So quite often when we stage 
properties that have been empty,

567
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,160
the client might have changed 
agent, which also, you know, 

568
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,440
also helps. 
It kind of brings up a fresh 

569
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:26,880
listing. 
Obviously if it's new, a new 

570
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,360
agent, new photos, maybe 
different price point. 

571
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,400
So it's kind of the combined 
strategy. 

572
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,600
But yeah, they staged 
properties. 

573
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,960
I think that there is a start. 
They've got in my head put on a 

574
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,880
on a slide deck last week that 
unstaged sits on the market. 

575
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,120
And again, this is a national 
average, not just London. 

576
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,760
It's about 90 days and staged 
properties, good looking 

577
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,120
properties sit on the market for
about 4045 days, which which 

578
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:51,520
still in my head's a bit too 
long. 

579
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,960
Like every like I said before, 
it was a week, two weeks Max 

580
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,920
going under offer at least 
having some really strong 

581
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,600
interest and then you know 
offers start coming kind of, you

582
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,200
know coming through sort of two 
to three weeks. 

583
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,440
On something you you said there 
and apologies if you, if you 

584
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,000
have actually said it and I 
missed it, but of the properties

585
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:16,400
you are staging, are they ones 
or what's the percentage on it 

586
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,480
that have tried to sell without 
staging? 

587
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,760
So you're going in as the the 
second market, it's not worked 

588
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,400
out first time around. 
They've seen the error in fair 

589
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,120
ways. 
I because again, it depends on 

590
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,680
what comes to me, you know what 
I mean in terms of my response. 

591
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,760
But I would say just thinking of
the ones that we've done 

592
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:43,640
previously, I would say maybe 2.
It's changed a lot because I'm 

593
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,720
getting a lot more direct 
enquiries from, from actual 

594
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,880
sellers now. 
But I would say possibly kind of

595
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:54,720
1/3 to 1/2 would be, we've tried
it unfurnished, didn't work. 

596
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,320
We're looking at changing agents
or sometimes, sometimes I stay 

597
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,760
with the agent, right. 
But yeah, I think initially, 

598
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,120
definitely kind of three years 
ago when I started, it was a lot

599
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,040
more. 
And, and again, that could just 

600
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,320
be that I'm talking to different
people now, right? 

601
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,600
And I'm, and I'm getting, you 
know, my direct business is more

602
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,280
than what it was when I started 
because I didn't have any 

603
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,120
business. 
But I think, yeah, sort of a 

604
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:20,680
good a good third to half would 
already have been on the market 

605
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,440
unfurnished and empty. 
And then they've changed tact 

606
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,720
and decided to get it staged. 
I just feel like I know I said 

607
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,280
it earlier, but if I'm an agent 
in someone's living room and I'm

608
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,880
trying to stand out and have 
ausp, one of those could be let 

609
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,840
me recommend an institution to 
Sonia, this amazing home stage. 

610
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,840
And here's the stats to back up 
why you should look at working 

611
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,040
with her. 
But you made a point earlier 

612
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,120
around what does the average 
person think a stager does? 

613
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,080
They fluff cushions a bit like 
they think the average agent 

614
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,200
opens the door and and puts a 
problem. 

615
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,200
And. 
So there's there's so much more 

616
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,040
to it in, in terms of the agents
as well. 

617
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,280
I know because I think how we 
got introduced was Jack Bollier 

618
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,000
introduced us and I've seen on 
your social media as well, 

619
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,200
whether it's Jack or James 
Hughes. 

620
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,320
And it's interesting that it's 
self-employed, owning their own 

621
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,280
business, who would seemingly 
from what I've seen are the ones

622
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,560
one well, recommending to 
sellers do it because obviously 

623
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,840
they don't even get paid any 
money until they actually sell, 

624
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,640
sell the house. 
Whereas this isn't corporate or 

625
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,320
High Street bashing from me, but
perhaps the person on the High 

626
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,040
Street again has a target to 
hit, has a basic wage and it's 

627
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,440
like, well, I, I get the 
listing, I appease my line 

628
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,600
manager. 
It might sell, it might not. 

629
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,480
Whereas you're Jack and and 
James of the world to go. 

630
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,320
Mr. Seller. 
Mrs. Seller, this is the best 

631
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,240
advice for you. 
The house is empty. 

632
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,880
Here is the data to prove that 
I'll get you sold quicker and 

633
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,280
for more money. 
Is it really good point again? 

634
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,160
So there's a couple of things 
with self-employed or 

635
00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:00,120
independent agents, like you 
said, you know, no, no sale, no 

636
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,880
fee. 
So they are super, super focused

637
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,280
on those listings and they only 
really want to take stuff on 

638
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,080
that they know that they can 
sell and it will sell. 

639
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,640
It will sell well because why? 
Why would you take something on 

640
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,400
where you know, you know, it's 
going to be a nightmare? 

641
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,040
It might, it might be the seller
might, the seller might think 

642
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,720
it's worth 100 grand or 200 
grand and more than what it is. 

643
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,920
And you've got to spend the next
three months going back and 

644
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,920
forth and telling them it's not.
So, you know, with only with, 

645
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,560
with the self-employed agents, 
there's, there's a limited 

646
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,200
capacity to what they take on. 
So they're only going to take on

647
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,200
the ones that they know that 
they can sell. 

648
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,680
And it might be empty, it might 
be, it might need work. 

649
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,160
But again, you know, to your 
earlier point, they're going to 

650
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:39,640
be the ones that are 
recommending it because they 

651
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,080
want the listing and they want 
it to look as best it can to get

652
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,760
the most engagement interest 
offers, etcetera. 

653
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,880
And I think also then with 
self-employed agents. 

654
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,040
And again, you said this is 
nothing, this isn't kind of 

655
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,360
cussing out any High Street 
corporate agents, but we're all 

656
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,400
grafters, right? 
Like this is my business. 

657
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,160
If I don't go out there and win 
the business, deliver on the 

658
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,320
business, I don't have a 
business. 

659
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,400
Yes, I've got I've got a team 
and they're really support 

660
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,280
everybody helpful. 
But like at the moment, kind of 

661
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,000
where I'm at now and for the 
last three years, it's all it's 

662
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,400
all me. 
And just like with independent 

663
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,960
self-employed agents, they're 
out there grafting, they're out 

664
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,640
there canvassing, they're out 
doing mail drops, they're out 

665
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,960
there speaking events, you know,
that they're out getting the 

666
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,200
business that that business 
doesn't just sit or doesn't just

667
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,560
come to them by them sitting in 
their front room, like you said,

668
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,800
posted on, on, on Instagram. 
So I think from a, a mindset and

669
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:34,800
work ethic perspective, any 
independent business owner or 

670
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,280
business owners get along 
because we're all kind of in it 

671
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:38,840
together. 
And we're also, you know, I'm, 

672
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:44,160
I'm super, super passionate 
about delivery and service like 

673
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,800
I will, I will always kill 
myself to get the right result 

674
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,480
for the client. 
Just had a chat with the client 

675
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,640
earlier and he was sort of 
saying, oh, you know, what's 

676
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,280
your process? 
And I said, normally we'll take 

677
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,160
in two or three options to a, to
a stage or to a project because 

678
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:58,880
you don't quite know what it's 
going to look like when it's 

679
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,120
there. 
And I can't walk away from 

680
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,040
something with it in my head 
going actually, that artwork 

681
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,280
looks, looks rubbish. 
I should have chosen that one. 

682
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,360
I'll, I'll, I'll work all night 
when I have done it before, 

683
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,480
actually work, work all night to
get something done because I 

684
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,320
said it would. 
But that, you know, linking us 

685
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,880
back to independence, that's 
where we are very similar 

686
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,520
because we're all, we're all out
there grafting. 

687
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,199
We're all out there getting our 
own business. 

688
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:25,760
And the level of service that we
deliver is dependent on how long

689
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,199
we're in business. 
You know, provide a rubbery 

690
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:28,239
service. 
You probably won't have a 

691
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,480
business next year. 
And I want to go back to Emmett.

692
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,320
You said earlier about staged 
property getting 8% more. 

693
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,719
What typically is the investment
someone would make as a 

694
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,040
percentage of Fair sale price? 
This is the good bit, Simon, 

695
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:49,600
right? 
This is, this is what we're all 

696
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,880
after. 
So again, according to the 

697
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:57,560
stats, it's less than 1% of the 
asking price right in, in 

698
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:58,920
London. 
If you look at when I look at 

699
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,320
kind of doing the maths in my 
head when either I'm charging 

700
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,840
far too little or, or they or 
these or there's a skew. 

701
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,120
But obviously London prices are,
are more so somewhere between 

702
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,240
sort of half a percent to 1%. 
Someone else came out with some 

703
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:13,560
stats of of 1 to 3%. 
Then I looked at that and I was 

704
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:18,320
like, wow, like what am I doing?
But it's about about say one 1%,

705
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,880
no more. 
I would say again, go slightly 

706
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,840
up and down depending on 
furniture and how much stuff it 

707
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,160
needs. 
But yeah, for, for less than 1% 

708
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,800
investment, you're making up to 
potentially 8% more. 

709
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,200
So 5 to 8, I think is, is, is 
the the stat, but say up to 8% 

710
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,840
more. 
So yeah, it's see what I mean? 

711
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,200
Like it's, it's money for old 
rope. 

712
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:39,920
It's a no brainer. 
Why wouldn't you spend a bit 

713
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,080
because you're going to get that
back and then some. 

714
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,720
But also more importantly, it 
will sell quicker because you 

715
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:46,760
know, like you said before, 
with, with agents, that kind of 

716
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,320
list. 
And it's sitting there and 

717
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,640
sitting there, it's going slowly
further and further down on 

718
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,720
right move or the portals. 
Yeah, after about four weeks 

719
00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:55,040
people aren't really going to 
look at it anymore. 

720
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,040
And if they do, they're going to
think, well, I can probably get 

721
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,200
a bargain here because it sat 
there for four weeks, hasn't had

722
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,120
much interest. 
I'll go in with the cheeky 

723
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,920
offer. 
So therefore you know what you 

724
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,000
get on return goes down even 
more. 

725
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,320
Yeah, I've literally got, I need
to put this social media post 

726
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,720
out, but I've got this graph and
it highlights and it's obvious, 

727
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:15,080
but it's nice to have the data 
and a visual on it. 

728
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,240
The longer a property sits on 
the market, the less likely it 

729
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,720
is to sell. 
So time kills deals, but it also

730
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:24,040
kills price as well. 
The optimum time to get the best

731
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,920
price is usually between weeks 
one and two on the market. 

732
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,680
So if you've actually launched 
it to the market correctly, 

733
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,280
you've had a a week of activity,
then you're hopefully choosing 

734
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:35,760
between buyers. 
They compete. 

735
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,440
It pushes the price up. 
Once you get to something that's

736
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,320
been on the market for 150 days 
or more, which is obviously a 

737
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,200
long time, typically it will 
sell for 10%, blow the asking 

738
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:45,920
price. 
You think on a 500 grand house 

739
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:50,040
50, you know 450I I was I 
started writing down some bits 

740
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,400
when you said about for ease of 
maths for me and we'll use a 500

741
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:58,160
figure and 1%. 
Let's say I've got a seller who 

742
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,160
wasn't I recommended staging at 
the start as an agent. 

743
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:07,080
They're like, I don't know you'd
like I'll I'll take a chance say

744
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:12,080
go on at 500 and it's not had 
the result we would have hoped 

745
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,240
for in terms of an apologies if 
anything I'm about says 

746
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:17,640
patronizing. 
By the way, Sony, because I 

747
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,200
don't know if you know the the 
numbers, but behind this on this

748
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,120
agency side. 
But for an alert to go out on 

749
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,880
right move some an agent needs 
to reduce the asking price by a 

750
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,880
minimum of 2%. 
The house is on at 500. 

751
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,840
It needs to go down to 490. 
Anyone who's got a notification 

752
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,600
set up on right move will get an
e-mail or it's actually lasts 24

753
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,040
hours, 3 days, seven days, what,
14 days it will come up. 

754
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,080
The amount of times I see estate
agents changed them from 500 to 

755
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:47,760
495. 
No one. 

756
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,720
Really. 
Yeah, no one knows the price has

757
00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:53,000
changed, but with Zoopra and on 
the market, it's 3%. 

758
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,520
So if the agent from multiple 
portals, they should be saying 

759
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,880
to a seller, by the way, if 
you're on at 500, if we want to 

760
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,680
make sure we're capturing all 
the eyeballs across all the 

761
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,240
portals, we need to change your 
price to 485. 

762
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,120
Now the other thing on it is for
on the way the price brackets 

763
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,520
were between 4 and 500. 
They're 25 grand brackets. 

764
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,520
So being on a correct price 
point, so minimal maximum, you 

765
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:19,240
get 16% more views. 
If you're on at 500, I'm the I'm

766
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:22,000
the agent now you're the owner. 
It's on at 500. 

767
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,840
It's been on a month. 
We've had no interest. 

768
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,680
The advice is should be we need 
to get into the next price 

769
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,800
point, which is 475. 
I mean, that's a 25 grand cut 

770
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,560
there. 
Well, here's an alternative for 

771
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:38,120
you. 
You could invest 5000 lbs, not 

772
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,600
change your price. 
We re photograph a property now 

773
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,760
it's staged rather than empty. 
Yep. 

774
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:45,960
See how we go. 
Would you would you be prepared 

775
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,640
to invest 5000 LB rather than 
feel like a 25 grand off? 

776
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,880
I think a lot of sellers would 
go, yeah, OK, I'll do that. 

777
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,160
Well, that's and that's it. 
I mean, I've got so many 

778
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,640
questions off the back of that. 
But the, the point I would make 

779
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,160
is one of the points I make and 
I've got it in my, in my slide 

780
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,640
deck, is the price of staging is
less than your, than your first 

781
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,760
price reduction. 
So like you said, you know, if 

782
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,080
you're, if you're on a 500 and 
you want to get that next range,

783
00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:14,160
kind of scoop up the next range 
of buyers who might, who might, 

784
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,960
who might pay above 475. 
But then they've said their 

785
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:19,760
budget's 475. 
You know, it's like something 

786
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,240
you're going to buy, go buy a 
car or ATV or whatever. 

787
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:23,880
Bought a new Luton the other 
day. 

788
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,440
It's not particularly exciting, 
but went in with a 10K budget, 

789
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,160
came out spending 15, you know 
what I mean? 

790
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,200
So, so everyone always has 
always got a budget. 

791
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:35,280
But yeah, people will for the 
right thing and people aren't 

792
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,120
going to fall in love with your 
empty property even at 475. 

793
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,320
They're going to be looking at 
it very much, kind of almost 

794
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,000
with a business head on. 
You know, where, how close to, 

795
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,440
to, to, to the train station is 
it, where are schools? 

796
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:48,720
How you know all those sorts of 
things? 

797
00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:50,680
What's the square footage? 
What does it need as opposed to 

798
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,920
walking in? 
What I always say is buyers 

799
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,560
think about a property purchase 
before they get there. 

800
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,840
They've already done the 
thinking generally right. 

801
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:00,800
You know, where is it? 
How big is it? 

802
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,280
The. 
When they walk in, you want them

803
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,240
to stop thinking. 
You want them to start feeling. 

804
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,000
You know there's there's head 
and there's heart. 

805
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,560
You want the heart to start 
going and then to be saying 

806
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,280
words like I love it. 
I can imagine ourselves here on 

807
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,720
a Sunday evening having a dinner
party or imagine the kids 

808
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:16,440
outside or, you know, you want 
them to. 

809
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:18,760
You've got that. 
Like I said before, there's this

810
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,000
small window of opportunity for 
such. 

811
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,640
There's so much bang for the 
buck that they can get out of 

812
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,160
those 15 minutes or 20 minutes 
viewing time that you want that 

813
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,480
time to be maximised. 
So they're, they're walking 

814
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:30,960
around saying I love it, I love 
it, I love it. 

815
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,640
Oh wow, wow, wow. 
Not. 

816
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,280
And where would the sofa go? 
Would my bed fit if if they're 

817
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:41,080
thinking on a viewing you've had
it is is is kind of my my take 

818
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,440
on it. 
If they're not feeling and 

819
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,880
saying all these words, these 
positive words, I mean, to be 

820
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,560
fair, they might hate it, right?
I mean not not a stage property,

821
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,120
but but they might. 
Not actually. 

822
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,600
No, not one of mine. 
No, definitely not one of mine. 

823
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,280
I mean, we don't know. 
I haven't had it yet, but but 

824
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,560
they might, they might think 
actually the layout's all wrong 

825
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,840
and to knock a wall down, it'd 
be too much work. 

826
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,520
Or, I don't know, there's 
something I couldn't see on the 

827
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,640
photos, whatever. 
Right? 

828
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,640
And and that's, and that's fine.
But if if it's the right 

829
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,040
property, marked it properly 
staged or presented well 

830
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,080
marketed, well for, you know, 
for my money in my head. 

831
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,840
And again, sort of, you know, 
20th of sales or recruitment, 

832
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,240
but sales experience, if people 
aren't loving it when they're 

833
00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:21,840
walking around, then you've 
you've, you've, you've missed, 

834
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:23,560
you've missed it, you missed 
opportunity. 

835
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,720
Yeah, this. 
I don't know if it's going to 

836
00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:31,200
have any relevance whatsoever to
what you said, but in my weird 

837
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,800
brain it does. 
I'm, I'm heading down to London 

838
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:40,160
later today as I've got an event
down there and you got me 

839
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,680
thinking about when I check into
my hotel room. 

840
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,400
I find it frustrating when I 
check into a hotel room and I'm 

841
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,600
having to figure out where I'm 
going to put my suitcase or 

842
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,040
right where's, where can I perch
myself to do that Zoom call in 

843
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,440
the morning or something. 
And then when I walk straight 

844
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,440
into a hotel room, I want to go 
desk is right there. 

845
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,640
There's a chart, there's a plug 
right next to where like the 

846
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,760
TV's air suite. 
Oh, we've got coffee ready towel

847
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,600
like perfect. 
And then you, you walk in being 

848
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,720
like, that's a relief. 
That's all like iron is in there

849
00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:13,920
because I need to wear my 
T-shirt. 

850
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,240
Whatever. 
And it's a bit like, so you're 

851
00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:21,200
saying about what the buyers are
thinking about before they get 

852
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:27,520
there. 
It very, very bad. 

853
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:33,960
Estate agents will, for example,
on a Victor a Victorian terrace 

854
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,800
in Newport Pagnell town centre, 
which doesn't have any off road 

855
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,960
parking, the estate agent will 
go and park straight outside the

856
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,840
front door because that's 
beautiful for them. 

857
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,480
What they should be doing is 
parking, you know, as far away 

858
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,040
from the house as they can so 
that there is reasonable space 

859
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:50,920
for someone to park outside the 
property. 

860
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,560
Like I would never, I'd never 
park on someone's driveway when 

861
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,040
I'm doing a viewing and you'd 
say. 

862
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:58,720
Like they've got to drive around
the park. 

863
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,160
Yeah, hey, Sonia, 3:00 Saturday.
Pull up straight onto the drive 

864
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,600
like you're more than welcome to
park there because you want them

865
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,560
to park on that drive and be 
like, oh, great, right, 

866
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,240
Shopping, kids, getting them out
the car, get them into the house

867
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:13,480
if they've had to park halfway 
around the corner. 

868
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,480
It's a bit shit, isn't it? 
Exactly. 

869
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,560
You want them to emulate 
everything and have that feeling

870
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,840
of them living there, right? 
Like I said before, if, if 

871
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,120
they're thinking when they're 
walking around that property on 

872
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,480
a viewing, you're it's, it's, 
it's a wasted opportunity. 

873
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,560
It's you want them to be, to be,
to be feeling. 

874
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,640
I mean, the other stat as well, 
90% of people can't visualize an

875
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,400
empty space, right? 
So the, the, the vast majority, 

876
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,560
but almost almost 10 out of 10, 
nine out of 10, maybe that one 

877
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,320
person in, in that 10 is me. 
I don't know, even sometimes I 

878
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:41,640
struggle. 
I walk into properties and I 

879
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:42,680
think, Oh my God, what are we 
going to do? 

880
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,320
Especially when there's small 
bedrooms, but you know, we've 

881
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:46,760
got small double S and stuff 
like that. 

882
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,920
But, but quite, but you know, 
most, most people can't walk in 

883
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:52,880
because it's too overwhelming. 
There's too much, they're 

884
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,000
walking into a new property 
they've never seen before. 

885
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:56,640
They've got all these other 
things. 

886
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,480
They're sort of standing there. 
You know, you've got, like I 

887
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,120
said, sort of 15 or 20 minutes 
maybe you've had to pay for 

888
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,360
parking because your estate 
agent hasn't, hasn't let you 

889
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,120
park in the, the driveway 
outside. 

890
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:08,800
And it's, it's too much to think
about. 

891
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:13,200
It's too much to like make it 
easy for people to visualise, 

892
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:15,840
you know, and also what if they 
want to sit, you know, what if 

893
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,880
they want to sit down? 
And, you know, I know when I've 

894
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,360
looked at properties, I've sat 
on the sofa and just kind of sat

895
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,800
and looked around or sat at the 
kitchen table or a bath stall or

896
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,840
something, or sat on, you know, 
perched myself on the end of the

897
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,000
bed just kind of looking around.
People need to sit in a, in a 

898
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:30,360
property to fall in love with 
it. 

899
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,560
It's not, you know, it's not 
kind of starting to book 

900
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,280
Donald's drive through where 
you, you know, you grab and go 

901
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,080
and 5 minutes later, you know, 
you're done. 

902
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:44,480
It's this is a, a huge purchase,
potentially A lifelong purchase 

903
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,560
or, you know, definitely a chunk
of their life. 

904
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,200
And there's no way people are 
going to fall in love with an 

905
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,800
empty space. 
So no one ever has said when 

906
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,080
I've walked into an empty 
property I love it versus it 

907
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,280
being staged just hasn't doesn't
happen. 

908
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:04,600
I'm going to slightly challenge 
you, but it does actually agree 

909
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,600
with you at the same time and I 
can't remember if I told you 

910
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:07,960
this when we caught up 
previously. 

911
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:13,600
So this house I live in now, 
very Long story short I sold it 

912
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,880
as a probate property. 
Late 70s early 80s build. 

913
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,320
Absolute shit hole. 
And I kept evaluating. 

914
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,520
I was like why on earth would 
someone buy this it's horrible. 

915
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,560
Lady did a renovation on it, 
asked me to come back out a year

916
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,880
later and it was empty but it 
had the smell of fresh paint, 

917
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,800
lovely fresh carpets on your 
feet and the new kitchen, new 

918
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:34,920
bathroom in and I went I'll buy 
it. 

919
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:36,960
So that's why I'm changing 
because it was empty. 

920
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:41,160
But what I'm agreeing with is 
that I couldn't visualize the 

921
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:45,320
space but it could be 6 to 12 
months prior not I just didn't 

922
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,920
visualize it and then saw it 
what it was. 

923
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,320
Then whilst there wasn't 
furniture in here, it had some 

924
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,720
nice light fittings and stuff 
and I was like this is. 

925
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,960
Pretty nice right But also I 
guess, but in that scenario, 

926
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,800
because you'd seen it beforehand
and you had history you had 

927
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,240
history of it you know versus 
imagine with all that stuff done

928
00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:05,960
where she'd done the amazing 
work smell of paint nice you 

929
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,360
know light fittings, but then 
also had beautiful furniture in 

930
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,560
there nice plush comfy beds. 
You probably would have liked it

931
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:13,640
even more. 
Let's. 

932
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,080
Let's Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And probably. 

933
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:17,480
Would have paid for being here, 
Simon. 

934
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:20,720
Yeah, probably. 
Probably would have paid more 

935
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:24,080
money as well. 
So yeah, I there was something 

936
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,520
else that was on my mind that I 
was going to say off the back 

937
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:30,560
what you were saying, and it has
completely escaped my mind. 

938
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,280
That's very annoying. 
Come back. 

939
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,360
Yeah, hopefully it will come 
back. 

940
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:42,000
So in terms of staging, it's 
really annoying me now that I'm 

941
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,840
not remembering what that was. 
I was going to say I didn't want

942
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,720
to end the podcast on me saying 
or I'm going to challenge and 

943
00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:49,960
disagree with what Sonia said 
because it wasn't, it wasn't a 

944
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:50,760
great. 
It wasn't a great. 

945
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,200
No, I know what you mean. 
And I think also, I guess as a 

946
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,280
caveat to what I said in terms 
of like no one walks in and says

947
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,400
I love it. 
Like there, there will be 

948
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,760
properties that people love 
because it's got character. 

949
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,800
It's got a beautiful garden It 
you know what I mean? 

950
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,800
I'm, I'm talking about there's a
walking in. 

951
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,280
I guess what, what I'm talking 
about, it's not kind of one or 

952
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:09,320
the other. 
It's more of a they're going to 

953
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:14,280
love it more and put an offer in
that you'll love more Mr. Mr. 

954
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:19,600
Mr. Mr. and Mrs. Seller or 
estate agent than if it's empty 

955
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:21,280
because it starts to pull on the
heartstrings. 

956
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,760
What was the question, Simon? 
Ask it quickly before you 

957
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,560
forget. 
No, I've, I've remembered now, 

958
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,000
so I'm just going over to my 
other screen. 

959
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:32,040
So when I, when I spoke at the 
home staging conference late 

960
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,920
last year, I, I spoke about 
this. 

961
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:38,240
So Zoop is it? 
That is it, huh? 

962
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:39,760
Didn't. 
Know you're at that. 

963
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:45,320
Yeah, I spoke, I spoke at it. 
So August 2024 Zoopa trials 

964
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,880
cutting edge eye tracking 
technology to reveal what 

965
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,040
British home buyers really look 
at when viewing a home, with new

966
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:57,560
research revealing it to be a 
£13,000 a minute decision for 

967
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:06,840
thousands of buyers. 
So the the home's structure, 

968
00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:11,920
including flooring and ceilings 
and 38% of the share of 

969
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:16,520
attention with cosmetics and 
furnishings earning 54%. 

970
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,520
It found just half. 
So 50% of prospective home 

971
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,920
buyers would check something as 
important as the boiler and 

972
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:29,760
fewer check the water pressure, 
25% Wi-Fi strength, 24% attic, 

973
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:35,040
23% seller, 17%, 1/4 admit to 
looking at pictures of the 

974
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,280
family that live there, the home
technology. 

975
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,840
And then furthermore, 31% look 
at flowers, 37% admire the 

976
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,360
furniture and 14% could be 
stretching the boundaries of 

977
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,920
what is acceptable by rummaging 
through drawers and cabinets. 

978
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,480
And one innate said they 
actually looked at how 

979
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,320
comfortable the owner's bed and 
sofa is. 

980
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:58,080
So basically the point of it is 
that they're spending more time 

981
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:03,880
looking at pictures, flowers and
furniture, which isn't going to 

982
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:05,360
be in that house when they move 
there. 

983
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:07,920
Yeah, that's an advert for 
staging. 

984
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,960
I don't know what it is, no. 
Exactly because people's minds, 

985
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:13,240
there's so much going on in 
them, right? 

986
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:15,280
So you, you, you provide an 
empty space. 

987
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,120
There's nothing for your mind to
bounce off of. 

988
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,920
I know when we've, and you know,
I kind of do this on purpose 

989
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,480
with again, it depends on the 
property, but maybe first, you 

990
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,840
know, especially kind of first 
time, first time buyer, maybe 

991
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,360
Shoreditch, that sort of that 
sort of generation and that type

992
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,360
of buyer. 
I'll make sure that I put in 

993
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,360
something that's a little bit 
not not wacky, like we're not 

994
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,320
going crazy, but a standout 
piece. 

995
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,760
Would there be a piece of art, a
piece of decor, a piece of 

996
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:43,440
furniture that really smacks 
people between the eyes and 

997
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,480
grabs their attention because 
that's what you want? 

998
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:47,280
People will go like, oh, yeah, 
the one with that sofa. 

999
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,280
I love that sofa. 
We're not buying the sofa. 

1000
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,120
I mean, you can, we can sell the
furniture, but that's not the 

1001
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,520
point. 
You know, people get so invested

1002
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,880
in what's in the property versus
the property itself because they

1003
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:00,400
want to feel, you know, they 
want to feel like it's a 

1004
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,040
supported decision, like it's 
the right decision when they're 

1005
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:04,400
walking in. 
And if they're walking in and 

1006
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,560
you know, they're getting all 
this kind of dopamine from all 

1007
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,120
these lovely things and like you
said, the flowers, the whatever 

1008
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,360
artwork, mirrors, decor 
furniture is putting them in 

1009
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,480
that that really dopamine heavy.
Like, you know that, you know, 

1010
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,920
the kick that you get out of 
something like buying something 

1011
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:23,760
or whatever is, is that what you
want them to be Isn't always 

1012
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,320
kind of in that safe space where
they're feeling like everything 

1013
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,040
around them supports that 
decision. 

1014
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,600
And you know, you strip 
everything away like that 

1015
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,080
research suggests you strip 
everything away and there's 

1016
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:34,560
nothing for their brain to 
bounce off of. 

1017
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:38,840
It's just you're just looking at
the four walls and that's it. 

1018
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:43,120
Maybe a garden if you're lucky. 
And actually to go back so on 

1019
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:48,200
this house, so I didn't have a 
vision before then I saw what it

1020
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,640
was nice fresh carpet. 
It's a fresh smell of paint. 

1021
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,360
Da, da, da, da. 
Actually, I'd forgotten that 

1022
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,600
Going back to your point of the 
things before getting in the 

1023
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:04,040
house on kind of where the right
part of town is, 2 minutes from 

1024
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,680
a a nursery in first school, 2 
minutes from a shop, 2 minutes 

1025
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,680
from a nice pub, 2 minutes from 
the motorway, 5 minutes from a 

1026
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,000
train station. 
So all those other things going 

1027
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,720
on in my head of this is the 
other end of town and it's 

1028
00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:22,520
perfect for my life. 
So again, try to make it as easy

1029
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,800
as possible for someone to, 
let's say, fall in love with a 

1030
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,000
home. 
Most estate agents marketing 

1031
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:32,960
will say low level WCUPVC, 
windows laid to lawn, garden, 

1032
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,400
all that crap. 
But actually it should be a, you

1033
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,720
know, are you someone who needs 
good access to training 

1034
00:51:39,720 --> 00:51:42,000
stations? 
You're in London or do you fly a

1035
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,320
lot because you're 30 minutes 
from an airport? 

1036
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,640
Or have you got little ones? 
You've got a nursing school 

1037
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:47,920
round the court. 
It needs to be selling that 

1038
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:49,800
lifestyle, not just the bricks 
and mortar. 

1039
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:52,760
Exactly. 
And I think I might ask you a 

1040
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:53,920
question actually, if that's all
right. 

1041
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:58,840
So when so when you're an agent 
or even even just data now what 

1042
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:03,600
percentage of sales don't go 
through IE buyer puts in an 

1043
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,920
offer, but they pull out before 
they have to exchange. 

1044
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:09,480
Do you know is there a? 
Stat, yeah, depends what data 

1045
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,960
you look at. 
There used to always be saying 

1046
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:16,080
it was about a third, but the 
data I look at is I'd say it's 

1047
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,840
more like 25%. 
So one in four sales that are 

1048
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,280
agreed don't actually complete. 
Yeah. 

1049
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:26,440
And I think the, and I don't 
have AI looked for for data in 

1050
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,440
this and I couldn't find it 
because it's kind of too hard to

1051
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:33,200
record. 
But I would say the if you have 

1052
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,800
staged your property, it's far, 
far more likely for that offer 

1053
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:41,480
to go through and exchange and 
complete if if the person loves 

1054
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:42,440
it. 
And that's what I'm saying they,

1055
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,480
you know, you want them to be 
walking around saying, oh, wow, 

1056
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,720
I love it versus or I didn't 
really get a feeling with that 

1057
00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:49,800
one because, you know, again, 
it's the head and the heart. 

1058
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,360
Like you put an offer in, you've
got all the, all the numbers in 

1059
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:53,880
front of you. 
Here's the asking price. 

1060
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,760
I don't know, here's the 
distance from a train station. 

1061
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,400
Here's the amount left on the 
lease. 

1062
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,640
Here's the mortgage repayment. 
Here's the councillors. 

1063
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:03,000
They're all numbers, right? 
That's all. 

1064
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,200
That's just that's just 
spreadsheet fodder. 

1065
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,840
But what you want, what people 
are less likely to do is if they

1066
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,840
absolutely love something, say, 
Oh, no, now I'm walking away 

1067
00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:15,800
like, you know what I mean? 
They're they're emotionally 

1068
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,640
invested at this point. 
So, so on a so on a more logical

1069
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:25,880
over emotional side, when you 
said earlier, stage properties 

1070
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,920
sell quicker. 
And then if you're staging 

1071
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:32,360
something rather than price 
producing it, where I'm going 

1072
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,760
with this is that it's 
statistically proven that the 

1073
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:40,040
longer it takes you to find a 
buyer, the more likely that sale

1074
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,680
is to fall through. 
And if you price reduce a 

1075
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,200
property, it's more likely to 
fall through. 

1076
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,120
So like the psychology behind it
is a buyer looks at a property 

1077
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:48,680
and goes, I like this, I want to
buy it. 

1078
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,800
But if it was on for three 
months and had a price 

1079
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,480
reduction, there's this little 
niggle in their head of why is 

1080
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:56,640
there no social proof that 
anyone else wanted to buy it? 

1081
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:00,680
So if something goes wrong 
seller about they can't find 

1082
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,280
this initial on a survey. 
There's so many other properties

1083
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,200
available at the moment. 
The buyer might just go to know 

1084
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:06,920
what I'm just going to jump 
shit. 

1085
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,400
Whereas if I go view a property 
in the first week of marketing 

1086
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,440
that's being staged and there's 
other people looking at it and 

1087
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,840
offering, I'm like, this is the 
one I want to buy. 

1088
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,240
Other people like it. 
Social proof, you know, we want 

1089
00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:20,800
what other people want to have. 
So I think that's a very 

1090
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,480
valuable and powerful in terms 
of the logical side of it as 

1091
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,560
well. 
It's 100% and I think this is 

1092
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:29,880
where in my experience, where 
I've seen self-employed agents 

1093
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,120
do this really well. 
They stack the viewings next to 

1094
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:33,840
each other, right? 
So you might have a 15 or 20 

1095
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:37,240
minutes slot, mainly because 
they can't be in too many places

1096
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:39,080
at once because you know, if 
you've got a branch, you might 

1097
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,000
have six or seven people that 
can do viewing. 

1098
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,480
So you might have one here and 
one there. 

1099
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,640
But you know, if you're at that 
property and it's just you, you 

1100
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,920
know, you stack them especially.
And I ended up going to one once

1101
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,880
had to grab some stuff out and 
then some people coming out and 

1102
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,720
some people going in, you know, 
the people going in and 

1103
00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:56,000
listening for the listening for 
the the noises and they're 

1104
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:57,280
coming out and go, I love it. 
I love it. 

1105
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:58,600
And they're going, oh, I love it
too. 

1106
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,240
And all of a sudden everyone 
loves it, right, As opposed to 

1107
00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:04,200
walking in when it's just a, you
know, kind of a don't know, 

1108
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:08,040
Tuesday at 2:00 PM walking in. 
But it all again, all all of 

1109
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:11,560
these, there's probably like 
some infographic I should do. 

1110
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:16,600
Maybe I'll give that to the 
marketing team thing me, but but

1111
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:20,320
around I mean we've got we've 
we've churned out a few stats 

1112
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,240
today, you know, up to 8% more 
90% of people can't visualize 

1113
00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:26,960
half the time on the market. 
But again, that's all good on 

1114
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:30,000
paper, but what actually happens
it's that sort of flow of things

1115
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,560
in terms of it creates more 
interest initially. 

1116
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:35,600
Therefore it's not going to be 
sitting on the market for 60 

1117
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,320
days or 150 days or whatever 
because that you know, the first

1118
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,520
the first almost dominated fall 
is that going on the portals and

1119
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:46,120
it just looking stunning priced.
Well, you know, sales strategy 

1120
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,920
here, marketing strategy here 
that both supporting each other,

1121
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,320
excellent estate agent kind of 
lead, you know, leading that 

1122
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,880
charge. 
And therefore it does, you know,

1123
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,880
the first domino does well 
because it gets loads of, you 

1124
00:55:57,880 --> 00:55:59,960
know, loads of views, loads of 
clicks, loads of engagement. 

1125
00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:02,080
Second Domino, loads of viewings
booked in. 

1126
00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:04,920
People, people are back-to-back,
people passing each other in the

1127
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,080
whole. 
There's that excitement, there's

1128
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,200
that fear of missing out, you 
know, the FOMO of God. 

1129
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:11,200
They look really interested. 
They, you know, we're better 

1130
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,360
getting before them or whatever.
So then therefore you've got 

1131
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,840
offers on the table, potentially
pushing up the price. 

1132
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:18,160
It's not going to stay on the 
market long because you've got 

1133
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,200
all these offers coming on. 
It's just like that is the 

1134
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:24,280
perfect scenario which staging 
then creates and it kind of 

1135
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,840
kicks off that whole momentum. 
1. 

1136
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,120
You know, one of the objections 
that I get sometimes from from 

1137
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,040
clients is we'll put it on empty
for a few weeks and see how it 

1138
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:34,440
goes. 
Yeah, and I'm like, well, if you

1139
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,200
know, it's an option and you 
know, you're, you haven't said 

1140
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:40,360
no, you just want to try, but 
like, it's, it's a bit of a 

1141
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,120
silly no, like just do it or do 
or don't do it. 

1142
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:45,280
I mean, do it. 
But then like you said, you've, 

1143
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:46,800
you've wasted the opportunity in
the market. 

1144
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,200
There's opportunity costs. 
And then because next time it 

1145
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,480
comes around, people like, oh, 
hang on, I saw, I saw that 

1146
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:52,960
before. 
Why is it, why does it come back

1147
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,640
on what they're trying to hide? 
And people get suspicious. 

1148
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,160
I mean, you know, like I said, 
my, my career in recruitment, 

1149
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,600
very similar to a state agency. 
You know, one's a job, one's a 

1150
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:02,720
house. 
Clearly there's lots of other 

1151
00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:05,280
differences, but you're 
brokering between two parties. 

1152
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:09,240
And the same thing with with 
jobs, you know, the first two 

1153
00:57:09,240 --> 00:57:11,600
weeks was when you got the 
applications, right? 

1154
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:13,760
Because after two weeks, 
especially after a month, and 

1155
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:15,640
actually, most job ads are only 
live for a month where you can 

1156
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,280
be extended. 
But after in that sort of second

1157
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:23,320
fortnight and definitely the 
last week, applications dropped 

1158
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,280
off because people think, well, 
they've probably already got the

1159
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:27,640
best applications in or they 
must. 

1160
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:29,800
I won't, you know, if it's if 
it's been live for two weeks, I 

1161
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:31,160
won't apply because they've 
probably got loads of 

1162
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:33,480
applications. 
Or if it's, you know, 3 weeks, 4

1163
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:35,280
weeks, I won't apply because 
there's probably something wrong

1164
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,360
with the job. 
It's probably a shit job, you 

1165
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,760
know, and very similar, you 
know, background in kind of 

1166
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,680
marketing and employee brand, 
the whole, the whole thing. 

1167
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:45,240
When a, when a candidate comes 
in, the candidate experience 

1168
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:47,160
versus the buyer experience for 
property, the candidate 

1169
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,080
experience when they walk into 
that office or wherever they're 

1170
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:51,600
having the, the meeting or the 
interview. 

1171
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:53,400
You know, you, you want them to 
be greeted. 

1172
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:54,960
You want them to have the best 
experience ever. 

1173
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:59,920
You want them to see, you know, 
the, them, you know, I don't 

1174
00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:03,120
know the canteen or, or you know
the restaurant or whatever and 

1175
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:04,080
where you know, you want to see 
them. 

1176
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,520
You want them to experience the 
buzz of it. 

1177
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:10,160
You know, if you, if you said to
me like Simon Sonia, sorry, I'm 

1178
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:13,560
going to offer you a job, I'm 
going to, I'm going to hire a 

1179
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,200
really shit room by the by the 
hour. 

1180
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,440
That sounds like something else.
But like, you know, at a, at a 

1181
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:23,640
like retail park or business 
park or whatever, there's going 

1182
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:25,200
to be no signage. 
You know what I mean? 

1183
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:27,000
Like you, you, I'd be like, 
well, first of all, it sounds 

1184
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:28,440
like a horrible job and why 
you're doing it there. 

1185
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,440
But I want to experience that 
buzz, and I'm more likely to get

1186
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:34,480
engaged and excited and really 
enthusiastic about the job and 

1187
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,280
accept it and want to do the 
best if I can see the whole, you

1188
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,440
know, the whole package, which 
you know, which staging is. 

1189
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,560
Yeah, that was a really random 
tangent to go off and sign. 

1190
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:44,560
I get it. 
I. 

1191
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:45,440
Really. 
Apologise. 

1192
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,560
I love, I love random tangents 
is what this podcast is all 

1193
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:49,840
about. 
South. 

1194
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:52,360
Final question, Sonia, I can't 
remember if I would have told 

1195
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,480
you previously, but I have a 
closing tradition which I've 

1196
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,880
ripped off from Stephen 
Bartlett's Diverse CEO podcast. 

1197
00:58:56,880 --> 00:59:00,560
So he gets the last guest to ask
the next guest a question, not 

1198
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,360
knowing who they are. 
And he's very cleverly monetized

1199
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:06,280
into these little cards. 
So I'm just going to ask you a 

1200
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,800
completely random question. 
They're different levels, Level 

1201
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:14,160
1 being just chilled, Level 3 
maybe being quite deep, 

1202
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:17,280
personal, intense, maybe 
childhood trauma or something. 

1203
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:19,320
You've got a lot of three. 
So sorry. 

1204
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:21,240
We're already, we're already 10 
minutes over. 

1205
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:22,760
I mean, how much time? 
How much time you. 

1206
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,160
Got Yeah. 
Make it, Make it. 

1207
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,840
Make it sharp, Deep, deep 
question. 

1208
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:31,800
What is the hardest thing you 
have ever had to overcome? 

1209
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:37,200
Blimey. 
And don't say this podcast 

1210
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:44,960
conversation. 
No, I would say my own 

1211
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,840
nervousness. 
OK, so as a kid, I was really, 

1212
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:52,880
really timid, like super timid. 
I didn't, I like I couldn't talk

1213
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:54,120
to anyone. 
Well, no, actually that's not 

1214
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:55,560
true. 
I could talk to it, but I had 

1215
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:57,480
real and again, I wouldn't even 
call it anxiety. 

1216
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:00,120
I know sort of everyone like 
sort of anxiety feels a bit more

1217
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:01,920
popular than what it was in the 
80s when I grow up. 

1218
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:05,440
But I was just, I was just 
really nervous, really incident.

1219
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,360
I was very academic, like I 
loved school basically. 

1220
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,960
I was, I was like the perfect 
kid in many respects, but I 

1221
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:15,720
didn't really have a lot of 
friends or a lot of social 

1222
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:16,960
skills. 
I wasn't sort of out in the 

1223
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:18,720
playground chatting to people, 
you know, one really good 

1224
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:19,800
friend. 
And I was really happy with 

1225
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,560
that. 
So I think that, yeah, the, the 

1226
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:25,920
biggest thing and I still get, I
still do get like, I still get 

1227
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:28,680
nervous, right? 
But I think the, the, how I've 

1228
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:30,520
overcome it. 
I remember someone saying to me 

1229
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:34,560
far left Oz actually, and you're
you're a very good actress. 

1230
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:37,960
So like me, deep down, I'm still
actually quite not very 

1231
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:42,480
confident, get quite nervous. 
But I'm just so used to this 

1232
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:46,400
kind of exterior that I've kind 
of, I don't know, invented that 

1233
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:49,480
sounds a bit dramatic, but that 
I've kind of walked into, I 

1234
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:51,000
guess I've kind of created over 
the years. 

1235
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:52,840
And, you know, it's kind of 
about, you know, trial and 

1236
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,720
every, you know, after a while 
when I'm in my, in my 40s now, 

1237
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,920
you know, I've had 30 odd years 
of experience, 35 odd years of 

1238
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:04,520
experience of how I can, I 
guess, portray myself in a way 

1239
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,040
that I like as well. 
I can't, you know, I like 

1240
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:09,320
myself. 
Now, if I'd gone on as that 

1241
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:13,160
small, timid, really kind of 
nervous child, I would, I 

1242
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:15,160
wouldn't be doing this, for 
instance, I wouldn't have done 

1243
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,520
all the things that I've done. 
I'd be, yeah, very much a 

1244
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,240
different person. 
Yeah, thanks very much for 

1245
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,800
sharing that. 
And it it it, it resonates with 

1246
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:26,240
me. 
I think when you sort of say of 

1247
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:30,800
creating that character, I think
there's very much a Simon from 

1248
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,800
opening the gates. 
And then there's a Simon. 

1249
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,120
There's definitely, there's 
definitely two different people.

1250
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,000
Person deep down, only you truly
know. 

1251
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:40,520
Yeah, I can. 
I can walk on stage and talk in 

1252
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,800
front of hundreds of estate 
agents and think there's some 

1253
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:47,000
nerves there, but it's an 
excited energy, right? 

1254
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,320
But you might, I don't know. 
I, let's say I go to a, a 

1255
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:52,400
wedding with my girlfriend as a 
+ 1. 

1256
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:54,640
And I don't know anyone like 
that. 

1257
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:57,120
That's Simon there, not Simon 
from opening the Gates where I'm

1258
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:59,280
like, Oh my God. 
Like I couldn't think of 

1259
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:00,880
anything worse than not knowing 
anyone. 

1260
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:03,040
Yeah. 
And she'll be like saying to me,

1261
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:05,360
but you'll go stand on stage in 
front of hundreds of people and 

1262
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:07,920
talk and talk or you'll go meet 
someone you've never met before.

1263
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,840
I'm like, yeah, but it's like 
I'm in my, it's got this Simon 

1264
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,720
Gates mask or character where 
that's you're in your comfort. 

1265
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:17,360
So you know what you're doing, 
if that makes sense. 

1266
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:19,320
Yeah, no, I do. 
I'm kind of the opposite 

1267
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:20,960
actually. 
I would, I would rather hold 

1268
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,760
court like in a pub of, I don't 
know, say 50 people that didn't 

1269
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,680
know whatever just, you know, 
kind of on that level versus 

1270
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,120
public speaking. 
But that is also, that is one 

1271
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:30,920
thing that I'm getting better 
at. 

1272
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:36,320
Presented last week at a state 
agency, state agents conference 

1273
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,720
on staging. 
And yeah, it went well, but I I 

1274
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:41,560
was definitely a bit nervous 
beforehand. 

1275
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:46,720
It's using that nervous energy 
as a as a positive, using it to 

1276
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:48,520
your advantage. 
It's easier as well when you've 

1277
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:50,040
got something that you're 
passionate about and you know 

1278
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:52,520
well, right, as opposed to 
standing up and really not 

1279
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:54,840
knowing because it's all about 
the content and you have to come

1280
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:57,320
across genuine and you can't 
come across genuine if you 

1281
01:02:57,320 --> 01:02:58,760
haven't done it. 
Agreed. 

1282
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,960
Tom Panos from over in Australia
gave me some great advice when I

1283
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:04,680
said to him, look, you do a lot 
of public speaking. 

1284
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,320
What advice would you give to me
is someone who's newer on the 

1285
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,080
scene, speaking on stages in 
front of hundreds of agents 

1286
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:12,960
like, well, if you're passionate
about it and you're an expert 

1287
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:14,880
and your knowledge within that 
field like that will come 

1288
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:18,480
across, they're not expecting 
you to be pitch perfect and know

1289
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:21,720
your presentation word for word.
Just your passion will come 

1290
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:23,040
across. 
And in this conversation, your 

1291
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,360
passion for staging has come 
across a lot as well. 

1292
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:29,160
So for everyone at home 
listening, please do remember to

1293
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:31,600
like, review, subscribe, follow,
share the podcast. 

1294
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:36,120
And if you are interested in 
finding out some more about home

1295
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:39,240
staging, please do reach out to 
Sonia on socials. 

1296
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:42,200
And that just leads me to say, 
Sonia Townsend, thank you very 

1297
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:44,040
much for being an amazing guest.
I really appreciate it. 

1298
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:45,120
Thank. 
You. 

1299
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:46,520
It's been my pleasure. 
Thank you.