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Hello and welcome to Open the 
Gates to more listings for 

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Estate Agents for me, Simon 
Gates. 

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I'm delighted to be joined today
by Mr. Simon Ledbetter. 

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Simon, thank you very much for 
joining me. 

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Fancy being here again? 
It's alright. 

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I've lost, I've lost count of 
how many appearance it is. 

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But in terms of like the 2026 
volume, we've done Part 1, Part 

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2 and Part 3 of voice the age of
2026, we're now into Part 4, 

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which is salary and people, 
right? 

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Yes, absolutely. 
Yes. 

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What we realized quite early on 
is the the annual report was 

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actually quite a hefty tome. 
So we broke it down to 

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quarterly, then monthly. 
I think it's made it more 

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digestible. 
So and I will say now for the 

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benefit of anyone listing all 
completely freely available that

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we're Unchained. 
So what some are I going to talk

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about is available to everyone. 
So please do we get several 100 

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downloads, but I'm disappointed 
it's not several 1000. 

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Yeah, there, there should be 
more and in terms of the the 

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market insights it offers, you 
know if I was well it helps on 

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the supplier side as well. 
If I was a practicing estate 

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agent today, the amount of data 
for an insight I'd get from each

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of at each of the voice agent 
surveys that would then help me 

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run my business. 
It's very helpful. 

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So part part, let's start again 
for those playing along at home,

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page 13 is where we're going to 
start. 

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So the question asked was which 
if any of the following levels 

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of management best describe your
level of responsibility at work?

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And I think no surprise, but a 
very even split between male, 

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male and female of a few more 
women in industry. 

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But as we know from many events 
and other research previously, 

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when it gets to the senior 
management and board level, 

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there's a massive discrepancy 
compared to the kind of averages

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across industry. 
Yeah, and this is data we take 

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from you, Gov. 
So it's completely impartial, 

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genuinely representative 
research. 

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It's not like a self selecting 
sample. 

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It's actually proper, you know, 
world class standard research. 

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And we've been tracking this 
data really since women in a 

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state agency started. 
And I had an interest when I was

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working at Knight Frank and 
there's a lady called Aviva 

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Wittenberg Cox who coded some 
gender consultancy at night 

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frame. 
I know. 

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Great name, great Canadian lady,
a brilliant. 

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Go and see a Ted Talks if you 
haven't. 

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She's a formidable woman. 
My favorite line of hers is 

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women aren't the problem, men 
aren't the enemy. 

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That is that's, I tell you what 
we could in terms of this part, 

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we could just end on that 
sentence, I mean. 

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Yeah, she's done, she's done 
some amazing Ted talks and I 

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strongly recommend anyone who's 
interested in this should go and

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listen to a Ted Talk. 
She's she's genuinely someone 

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who's interested in addressing 
this rather than virtue 

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signaling or browbeating or 
making enemies. 

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Anyway, just like, look, this is
a, this is a problem we all 

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have. 
So how do we solve it? 

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So she went to the gender jaws. 
We did them at Knight Frank. 

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They were horrific. 
So I've been tracking them 

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across various industries ever 
since because it's just 

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fascinating illustration of this
gender jaw things. 

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Really easy to work, really easy
to understand. 

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And you're right, you know, as 
an industry, we're pretty evenly

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split. 
I mean, some data in Mercedes, 

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53 percent, 47, we got 5446. 
So that's kind of you'd expect 

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52% of the population as women 
anyway. 

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So that's kind of not a 
surprise. 

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But then you watch it from the 
most junior level, 78% women, 

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22% men, to the most senior, 58%
men and 42% women, it just 

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reverses. 
And I share this with Verona 

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Frankish from Yopa last year's 
conference and I tried it this 

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year. 
And the frustrating thing is in 

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several years of tracking, it's 
not really shifting. 

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It is, it is. 
And I think you know, and we all

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know there's some incredible 
women in senior positions, 

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aforementioned Verona, Alice 
Bullard, Steph Walker, you know,

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some amazing women leading 
organisations in this country. 

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You know, you'll send the 
slaughter running marketing now 

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for IAD and Avocado, but as an 
industry we are quite male, pale

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and stale. 
And I know I am a male Bale 

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stale individual. 
So, you know, and it's not that 

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how to put this in the right way
because obviously it's two 

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blokes talking about this is 
kind of an interesting one 

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anyway to pale Male sales 
talking about it is we've 

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designed an economic system that
only works for half the 

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population. 
Yeah. 

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And this isn't about that. 
They're not going to talk too 

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much about that. 
But it was a real realisation. 

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Finally the scales came of my 
eyes where with Aviva's work and

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what she talked about, it is 
we've literally created an 

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economic system that makes it 
really crap for women and for 

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all sorts of reasons. 
And unless you understand that 

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as a bloke, you're kind of a bit
blind to the reality. 

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And when you do, people go like,
it's just, it's just, you know, 

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the best rise at the top. 
No, no, no, no, no, it doesn't. 

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It doesn't rise to the top. 
The best men rise to well, 

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that's not even true. 
The best men rise to the top. 

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But the system we've created 
literally excludes women. 

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And you know, women see on so 
much talent. 

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Yeah, so I so again conscious 
that we're coming at this from 

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point of views as 2 white men, 
but. 

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Tread carefully, Simon. 
Tread carefully. 

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Both. 
We could both be cancelled. 

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I was going to say that like my 
early years of estate agency, so

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when I first did work 
experience, the branch manager 

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was a very powerful, formidable 
lady who scared me. 

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I didn't want to get on the 
wrong side of her. 

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And then like the senior 
negotiator in the office was 

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again a very formidable lady. 
In my early years of full time 

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estate agency, when I first 
started, I had again, a 

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brilliant estate agent who she 
ran rings around me and she was 

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the seniors in the office and 
then the one of the officers I 

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spent a lot of time in. 
I ended up running, I took over 

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from a lady who went on to 
maternity leave, but her and the

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scene negotiator were women. 
So the point I'm trying to make 

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is that in my what am I trying 
to say in the four walls of 

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business I was in and also I get
a finance director who was a 

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female. 
I never saw any issues like that

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for my like blinded corner of of
the state agency. 

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So it certainly opened my eyes 
across the industry. 

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At the same time, I find it 
really, really actually, this 

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will sound really weird because 
I appreciate how privileged like

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you and I are being born as 
white men in the UK. 

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But I thought I'm finding it 
very tough in recent times where

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you're damned if you do damned 
if you don't when you're in like

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our position. 
Like I had an instance where 

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women were invited to an event 
and couldn't make it and it 

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didn't even cross my mind as to 
what it would look like. 

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And then there was some from it 
which I could understand where 

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people come from, but not 
understanding the context of it 

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was actually there were women 
invited. 

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And what I found, and Chris 
Watkins said this, I think in an

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interview with Annalise Walmsley
recently. 

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And the the data's there from, 
from a few different things on 

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this where when I have done 
podcasts or events, and I think 

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we will come on to a second, 
when I have invited women, if 

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there's someone who says no or 
doesn't just doesn't turn up or 

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cancels last minute, it's more 
likely to be a woman. 

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And I think, I don't know if 
it's from your research or, or 

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research you shared from 
somewhere else. 

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And Verona had said it on stage 
at a woman in the state embassy,

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not a conference was where men 
need to take, let's say, a few 

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boxes out of 10 to go for the 
promotion. 

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Whereas a woman like I need to 
sit 10 out of 10. 

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If I don't sit 10 out of 10, I'm
not turning up. 

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And I've seen that in when I 
tried to do things myself, I've 

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pushed really, really hard to 
try and get more women in the 

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room. 
And I just get, I've got to a 

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point where I'm like, I've tried
so hard, not got women in the 

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room. 
And then I'm getting backlash 

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for it. 
I'm like, damned if I do, damned

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if I don't. 
Yeah, I mean, it is difficult 

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and you know, I mean, the 
reality is in a lot of 

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situations and I it surprises 
me, we home educate our kids. 

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I'm my, my wife and I are 
business partners 5050. 

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But it, it would be untrue that 
I take half the burden for the 

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children of the house. 
That's just not the case. 

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And you know, in these 
situations, you know, if 

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something's wrong with the kids,
they'll call the mum. 

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If there's something wrong with 
the house, the mum will deal 

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with it or the woman will deal 
with it. 

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Generally speaking, I mean, 
basically many useless. 

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We're there for lifting. 
We're basically there for 

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lifting things and opening 
things in the nicest possible 

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way. 
And I think you're right, it is.

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I've had exactly the same 
experience. 

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I've always tried to have quite 
representative, not for any 

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tokenism, but you want a 
diversity of voices on a panel 

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rather than a bunch of white men
talking to each other. 

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Because I want to see that go to
any industry conference in any 

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industry. 
You know, you want you to be 

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some of it in some way different
and have a diversity of voices. 

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But yeah, I've had the same 
experiences either. 

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Women don't want to come on 
these things for various reasons

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and we need to get into that 
more as an industry of why do we

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not feel they should be there? 
Because they should. 

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And in every something will come
up in their lives that means 

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they can't they, they cannot 
deny the privilege I have in a 

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sense. 
So people go, oh, woke and I'm 

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not woke. 
I'm just awake to the fact that 

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I have these advantages. 
It is far less like if I can 

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commit to something, I will make
it. 

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And it would have to take the 
kids literally dying, possibly, 

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for me to change my plans. 
I don't think my wife could say 

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the same. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah. 
And we've got to recognize that 

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there is an imbalance. 
If that imbalance exists and 

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know it of your own family, it 
may not be the case for your 

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family. 
Well done. 

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Brilliant. 
But if it is the case, be aware 

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of it. 
And I think just as women tend 

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to be have to be twice as good 
to get the same level of success

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as a chap, chaps have to be 
twice as good if they're putting

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00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,440
on events to get women present. 
Because we already know all the 

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barriers exist. 
Yeah, I understand. 

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00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:13,440
Yeah, that is interesting. 
And I mean. 

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00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:15,600
You're not going to love this 
one because I haven't published 

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00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,280
yet and I just, I don't know if 
I want to because it just, I 

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00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:19,520
know it's going to land badly 
with some people. 

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00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,920
I did an analysis of men and 
women in real estate and they're

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00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:27,240
interested in sport. 
It's massively different. 

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We kind of know that anyway. 
Women are generally, as a rule, 

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00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,160
on average, based on all the 
data, not as interested in sport

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00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:39,680
as men and specifically things 
like football and golf. 

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Yeah. 
And going to the pub after work,

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now that's not a sport, but we 
certainly treat it like 1. 

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And I just think we need to try 
and create opportunities that 

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represent the interests of both 
parts. 

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00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,160
And I know people aren't 
listening to go, Oh, virtue 

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signaling. 
Why No, I mean, I was raised by 

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00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,160
a single mum. 
I've had, like you, lots of 

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00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,840
really impressive female female 
bosses and completely 

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00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,880
capitalistically right wing 
blood and tooth and claw want to

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00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,480
make as much money as possible. 
Why would you squander half your

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00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,280
talent? 
That doesn't make sense to me 

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00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,000
now for all the right reasons as
well. 

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00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,400
The ethical moral, you know, 
genuinely decent fare diversity 

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00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:27,840
and that stuff. 
But economically, why would you 

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00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,880
want not want everyone to 
contribute the most that they 

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00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,440
can in the best possible way? 
Yeah. 

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So that's why I keep publishing 
it because, like, I think as an 

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00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,440
industry, we miss out on some 
huge talent because we did some 

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00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,160
research in 2024 and then I'll 
shut up. 

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00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:43,160
And we asked about 
discrimination. 

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00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:44,840
We're going to update it this 
September. 

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00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,800
And it was Mark Shorrock, the 
editor of Estate Agent today. 

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I sent him the data, and he came
back to me and said, he's never 

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00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,880
done this before. 
Is this data real on 

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discrimination? 
I mean, statistically, samples, 

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I said, said, yeah, it's true. 
Over 80% of women had suffered 

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some sort of discrimination from
colleagues, more from clients 

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00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,480
and men. 
Yes, there was discrimination, 

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00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,320
but a far lower, lower, much 
lower level. 

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00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,760
We have a problem and I think we
probably need to talk about it 

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00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,680
more as an industry. 
Yeah. 

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00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,720
So you've actually just ticked 
off what was going to be next 

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subject on page 14 was that 
discrimination piece. 

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00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,320
Oh yeah, I did. 
So we did touch it, didn't We 

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didn't show the spread. 
We didn't show the Dacey. 

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00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:25,960
Yeah. 
Yeah, so it's just going back 

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00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:27,720
quickly to on the points you 
made. 

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00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,480
Interesting what you said about 
football goal from the pub, 

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00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:37,600
because if you were to paint a 
picture of I'm going to say what

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00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:39,960
my client avatar would look 
like. 

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00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:45,480
It's an estate agent in his 30s 
or 40s who likes football, plays

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00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:50,560
golf and fancies a beer or two 
like that, that and that's and 

246
00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:52,120
that's me, right? 
And I'm going to try I'm 

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00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,600
attracting the kind of person 
like me. 

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00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,640
And then my, if I look at the 
podcast analytics, and I've 

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tried really, really, really 
hard on this, but 80% of my 

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00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,280
listeners are men, 20% are 
women. 

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00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:08,480
And funnily enough, 20% of my 
guests are women invited by very

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00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,080
hard to try and get that higher.
And then again, if you look at 

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00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:16,240
the typical listener office 
podcast, it's a man in his late 

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00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,680
30s. 
So it's like quite, I mean, I'm 

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00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:23,360
35 to mid 30s. 
I am, but again, it's attracting

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00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,960
a similar type. 
And naturally, you know, we, we 

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00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:34,240
do, we are drawn to people like 
us on every single factor, 

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00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,520
politically, economically, 
gender based in every way. 

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00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,640
We're a try. 
We're a tribal or a herd based 

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00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,400
creature. 
That's inevitable. 

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00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,560
But I think you know, you know, 
you will run one of the most 

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00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:50,160
successful and well listened to 
podcasts in the industry. 

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00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,160
I publish a piece of research 
that's right and touches the 

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00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,440
whole industry. 
We have an extra responsibility,

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00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,240
I think as to anyone who's got 
any kind of public profile to 

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00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:05,520
just do that bit better. 
And yeah, yeah, I've never 

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00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,440
joined in the Flack on people 
who've basically posted stuff. 

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00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,040
But when they are post, I saw 
one the other day and I haven't,

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00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,200
I nearly shared it because 
basically it was a team of like 

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00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:19,840
80 people all together for 
property event. 

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00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,280
And I basically got AI to scan 
it and say what is the gender 

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00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,240
split here and what's the ethnic
split here? 

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00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:34,920
It was 99% white, 8590% men. 
And these were the senior 

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00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,720
decision makers celebrating 
their successors of a major 

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00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:45,160
company in our industry. 
And I thought I, as a global 

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00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:49,880
CMO, would not have let that 
picture go out because while 

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00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,160
that may be the reality, that 
image stinks. 

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00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,200
Yeah. 
Because what does it say if you 

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00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,960
happen to be a woman, if you 
happen to be black, if you 

280
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,600
happen to be a black woman? 
Don't work here. 

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00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,280
Yeah, I think I'd say on on that
point now when I've been to, I 

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00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:15,920
mean, I go to many, many 
conferences and on, you know, 

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00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,960
wanting to have more need and 
want more females on a panel. 

284
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:24,640
But then to your point, actually
having different ethnicities, so

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00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:29,640
age groups as well. 
Yeah, I hear from people who are

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00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:35,120
in their 20s, for example, 
rather than it just being an A 

287
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,480
more stale panel, let's say. 
I'm going to flip it on its head

288
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,680
slightly. 
I don't know if you have any 

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00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,840
research on this, if we've 
discussed this before or if it's

290
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,320
in any of the like voice the 
agent research. 

291
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:51,200
But I sit on the boys Club 
board, private Facebook group 

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00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,840
for men in the industry. 
And if you look at all the 

293
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:59,960
statistics and data out there in
terms of the issues that men are

294
00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:03,880
facing in terms of like taking 
their own lives, I, I'd be 

295
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,200
interested if there was data 
around like in the industry of 

296
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,240
mental health and. 
Yeah, we, we, we touched on 2024

297
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,760
and I, I don't know off the top 
of my head, but I think it's a 

298
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,200
roundabout the instance of 
mental health in any given 

299
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,160
years, about one in four people,
I think it was like 43% in our 

300
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,760
industry. 
Which is not surprising, yeah. 

301
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,640
And the levels weren't that 
different between men and women.

302
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,560
So, but the point was it was 
still very, very high for both 

303
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,960
men and women. 
The one thing I do know, and 

304
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,400
I've talked to my wife about 
this, is US men. 

305
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,480
Again, we're rubbish at talking 
about this and it wouldn't be 

306
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,760
wrong to describe people who die
from suicide. 

307
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,400
Men who decide die from suicide 
as an epidemic. 

308
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:47,920
That I was going to say that 
word, yeah. 

309
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,960
And I should, we should have 
both said that trigger warning 

310
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,200
before we got into it a bit 
because I know there are people 

311
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:55,640
out there and people I know in 
the industry who've been 

312
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,680
affected by it. 
It's quite deeply and it is 

313
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,920
heartbreaking. 
Get emotional on my own that 

314
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,480
people don't feel they can talk 
to someone because there always 

315
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,599
is. 
But we, we have a problem, you 

316
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:12,599
know, we have a real problem. 
And it lends again to this 

317
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,520
slightly macho, everything's OK 
I'm tough, I'm perfect. 

318
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,480
Whereas in reality, a lot of the
people you know, when you speak 

319
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,240
to them, get to know them, they 
sometimes go to bed in tears 

320
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:27,839
because life is that hard. 
And that that is a men aren't 

321
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:31,520
the enemy thing that we're not 
we, we're we're as messed up as 

322
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,760
everyone else on this planet 
trying to make the most of it. 

323
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,040
And you know, the we, we were 
the boys club and the other 

324
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,840
groups on November and things 
like that, you know, trying to 

325
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:42,920
get men to talk about what's 
going on. 

326
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:47,280
Then there's nothing weak and 
there's nothing soft and there's

327
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,840
nothing bad about reaching out 
to someone. 

328
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,920
Say, you know, if someone says 
how you doing? 

329
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,680
I'm fine. 
It's fucking incapable of naming

330
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,840
emotions. 
That's what fine means. 

331
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:03,200
If they say that, press a bit 
harder because we're not 

332
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,920
addressing this issue. 
And it's it's, it's a silent 

333
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,880
killer and it's it's tragic. 
And I got kids and I worry 

334
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,680
about, you know, my kids in the 
world they're going into and I 

335
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,600
know how hard it is. 
So, you know, we need to be 

336
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,200
better at having this 
conversation. 

337
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,400
The boys club, women estate 
agency and all the great things 

338
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,360
going. 
They are so important. 

339
00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:23,720
And anyone who's not part of the
boys club, hey, I'm part of the 

340
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:25,040
Facebook group. 
I joined it. 

341
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,520
I don't participate as much as 
I'd like to, but I do listen to 

342
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,880
the conversations and I am fully
supportive of what it does. 

343
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,120
And I spend both my life in 
therapy outside podcasts. 

344
00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:41,920
So thank you for the the plug 
there on, on the the boys club 

345
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,800
group. 
There has been some fantastic 

346
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,040
engagement in recent months with
it, which has been brilliant to 

347
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:48,720
see. 
But it also highlights in a 

348
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,640
closed private environment, your
point of how many men out there 

349
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,080
do struggle. 
So any men in industry listening

350
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,040
to this, you're not already a 
member of the Facebook group. 

351
00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,720
Please do go join it. 
And if you ever need anyone to 

352
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,320
speak to, please do reach out. 
And on Simon's point there as 

353
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,760
well, in terms of the word fine,
it's a little bit like asking 

354
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,160
someone, are you OK? 
And they go, yeah, I'm OK. 

355
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,520
Ask the second time, Are you 
sure you're OK? 

356
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,480
I have someone do that to me 
only this week, which was very 

357
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,360
kind of them. 
And so Hill Bloom, who's someone

358
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:24,400
I follow closely who is 
brilliant. 

359
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:28,200
He literally changed his whole 
life because a friend of his 

360
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,200
said are you OK twice, Like, are
you OK? 

361
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:31,520
Right. 
Yeah. 

362
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,360
You know, busy like that badge 
one that we wear. 

363
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:35,560
And then he asked the second 
time, are you actually OK? 

364
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,760
And he went, no, not really. 
Imagine if he'd if that friend 

365
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,640
had never asked that second. 
Are you OK? 

366
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,080
So yeah, it. 
Wasn't. 

367
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:50,440
To talk right, Page 23 moving on
to wages. 

368
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:59,600
So what I see there essentially 
is if I'm someone coming out of 

369
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:04,440
education and wanting to get 
into the workforce and I want to

370
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,600
earn some money and try and have
a bit of a decent life, the 

371
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,640
state agency is not looking at 
appetizing from a financial 

372
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,520
point of view. 
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't 

373
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,280
it? 
I mean, I think, you know, 

374
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,360
there's a challenge of again, 
it's a generational thing. 

375
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:25,240
It's hard to talk about what 
it's like for young people and 

376
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,560
entering this industry because 
everything is so different from 

377
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,440
when we both entered it. 
So we got to be careful and go, 

378
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,880
well, you know, I didn't earn 
that much when I started and OK,

379
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,840
stop there. 
Half of them may well have gone 

380
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,760
to university and have got an 
enormous amount of student debt 

381
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,000
because they were mis sold what 
that was all about. 

382
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,720
And I'm actually, I'm posting 
about that. 

383
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,040
That post will have gone out by 
the time this is released and 

384
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:55,440
what it actually means. 
We've got to kind of understand 

385
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,720
that who is our competitor for 
the people that we want. 

386
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,320
If we pay the lowest possible 
salaries we can get away with, 

387
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,160
we will not attract the best 
talent. 

388
00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:12,480
And while yes, they can earn 
considerably more if they're 

389
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:17,640
successful, to be successful, it
is bloody hard work. 

390
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,480
It is not as simple as, oh, end 
of the year you get a big fat 

391
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,720
bonus. 
You're not being paid enough to 

392
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,840
really live on. 
And you need to offset that with

393
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,600
Commission on the work that you 
do. 

394
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,280
And you need to do a hell of a 
lot of work to earn that 

395
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,640
Commission. 
And it's, I mean, I, I, my 

396
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,440
friends who saw me 10 years ago 
joined the property industry and

397
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,960
now I'm the biggest advocate and
defender of estate and letting 

398
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,040
agents is this isn't an easy 
job. 

399
00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:52,920
This is not we, we should pay 
these people more for the work 

400
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,800
that they have to do. 
And when I see someone driving a

401
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,720
Ferrari saying they can't pay, 
afford to pay their staff more, 

402
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,160
I am a bit like maybe don't have
4 skiing holidays a year. 

403
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,520
Maybe don't. 
And maybe give some of them more

404
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,400
of the reward to your people who
are actually doing all the 

405
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,960
flipping work and actually as a 
career choice. 

406
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,800
And we talk about this in a, in 
a, in a later page, but it's 

407
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:20,160
important is actually, I think 
this is quite an AI insulated 

408
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:25,640
industry and therefore it's a 
great opportunity, but you still

409
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,560
got to pay enough for people to 
be able to live and recognise 

410
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,280
the pressures they're under. 
And that chart tells the whole 

411
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,960
story where the bottom of the 
table. 

412
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:36,640
Yeah. 
That's terrible. 

413
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,760
You never want to be the bottom 
of any table. 

414
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,560
And then I guess that then 
perhaps is part of the issue as 

415
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:48,360
to why only about half the 
properties, call it 55% actually

416
00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:51,040
go on to sell. 
Because if you haven't got, if 

417
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:52,960
you can't pay the right sort of 
money, you're not going to get 

418
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,920
the right calibre of people who 
can then deliver those results. 

419
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,960
Because if you're paying ship 
money and you're going to get 

420
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,960
ship work, sounds really harsh, 
but you're then not going to get

421
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,440
the results right. 
Because the great people are 

422
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,800
going into other industries. 
And the amount of people I've 

423
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,000
come across who've come from 
other industries into a state 

424
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:17,120
agency and they're like, Oh my 
God, this like from a tech point

425
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:20,000
of view, I'll use as an example,
I couldn't like when I left the 

426
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,520
state, interesting joined home 
search. 

427
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,160
I thought I was stupid. 
I couldn't believe like my lack 

428
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,400
of tech proficiency because 
we're still so paper based where

429
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,160
where I was. 
So yeah, it's interesting. 

430
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,880
And I, I get like on the, I 
don't know if this is part of 

431
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,920
this or if it comes in later, 
but if you kind of look at the 

432
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,520
gap or lack of gap between like 
minimum wage, so like basic 

433
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,600
entry level into a state agency 
and then what an experienced 

434
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,480
negotiator would be earning, 
it'd be like, so I'm going to do

435
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,600
all this extra work and this 
junior reports to me. 

436
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,000
But if you actually work out the
gap between what they're earning

437
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,000
and what I'm earning, like, is 
it worth it? 

438
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,680
The the classic line that gets 
used? 

439
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,920
You could actually go and stack 
shelves at a supermarket and 

440
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,120
actually. 
And you would generally be 

441
00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:10,960
treated quite well. 
You'd be fed, you'd be warm, you

442
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,640
wouldn't have to go to people's 
houses, you wouldn't have to 

443
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,480
bunch meet a bunch of freaks. 
Which let's face it, at least 

444
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,760
half of people in this country 
are sub average because that's 

445
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,560
how statistics work. 
Whichever context you can sell 

446
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,080
it to. 
The average being I'm not making

447
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,080
any value judgements here, but 
whatever you think normal is, 

448
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,080
half people will be lower than 
normal, whatever that is. 

449
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,840
And you know, they did everyone 
in the industry deserves Why is 

450
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,480
that? 
Like things like the esters and 

451
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,320
the many other awards that exist
in our industry is actually, you

452
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,360
know what these people do need a
bloody medal for the job they 

453
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:47,680
do. 
I also think they could do with 

454
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,360
a bit more money and you can see
why the attraction of 

455
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,600
self-employment where you get 
more of the reward. 

456
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,360
But we'll talk about that later.
The implications of that are. 

457
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,840
But the reality is I don't think
you should be that far down a 

458
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,400
league table on payment and nor 
should you be at the bottom of 

459
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,880
it by that margin. 
I know things are changing. 

460
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,560
I know O'connell's Countrywide 
has changed their paid 

461
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,480
structure. 
I know other things are going on

462
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,720
the industry, but it's a 
competitive market out there and

463
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,960
good people are drawn by the 
best possible packages. 

464
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,800
I mean, I like the fact as an 
industry, you know, I've got all

465
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,360
the letters after my name and 
all that kind of stuff after it.

466
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,840
I like working industry where 
because academics are massively 

467
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,120
overrated, unless you want to be
a professor, massively 

468
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:33,280
overrated. 
I've seen some genuinely 

469
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,680
brilliant people in this 
industry who I've learnt so much

470
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,640
from, who left school at 16 or 
18 and I love that about the 

471
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,320
industry. 
I love the fact that it's 

472
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,200
created a root for people who've
not gone down the the sausage 

473
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,280
machine of going to university 
and getting a degree in a 

474
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,520
massive amount of debt that it's
created an opportunity for them.

475
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,200
But I don't think the rewards 
are commensurate with the work 

476
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,920
that's being done. 
And it wouldn't be take too much

477
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:04,480
to level it out a little bit. 
So that's kind of my, my thing. 

478
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,440
And I think we don't want to 
throw the baby out with the 

479
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,960
bathwater. 
I think the fact that you don't 

480
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,000
need a degree to do this, this, 
this industry is great. 

481
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,560
I think that gives a route for 
people through. 

482
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,280
But I think what we need to do 
is invest much more in training.

483
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,720
We need to invest much more in 
an environment that's more 

484
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:26,960
conducive to both men and women.
I think we need to be less old 

485
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,680
fashioned in the way we treat 
the workplace and just pay 

486
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,000
people a bit more, just a bit 
more. 

487
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,800
I mean, it doesn't seem too much
to ask for is actually quite a 

488
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,120
profitable industry. 
I mean, the average industry 

489
00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:46,520
margins, what 9%, is it bad? 
So if I, if I challenge you on 

490
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:51,760
that from stuff I see on socials
from business owners within the 

491
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,240
industry who are saying how 
tough it is with minimum wage, 

492
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,720
rising National Insurance, 
pension contribution, etcetera, 

493
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,760
etcetera. 
And they will say, and Simon, if

494
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,160
anyone listening rather than 
watching is like, hold my beer. 

495
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,280
I'm about to show you some data.
I'm just saying anecdotally from

496
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,920
the, from the posts I see, 
they're like, it's, it's in like

497
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,400
it's impossible to run a 
business da da, da, da, da. 

498
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,160
I can't pay people more on. 
But like you just said, yet some

499
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,080
of those same people are driving
the Ferrari that you're talking 

500
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,520
about, but they're saying we're 
getting we're getting killed 

501
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,760
here. 
OK, so we're saying this is a a 

502
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,200
profession you don't need a 
degree in. 

503
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,520
So that means you're leaving 
school at 16 or 18? 

504
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,360
Yeah. 
National Living Wage doesn't 

505
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:37,640
kick in until you're 21. 
Yeah. 

506
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:43,040
So how does that affect? 
And I think there's something 

507
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:44,880
true. 
I wish I had the data in front 

508
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,320
of me, but in fact, I'm going to
do it now. 

509
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:55,320
What about National Insurance? 
He types into perplexity, I 

510
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,480
think, and I should have known 
this because I didn't know going

511
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:04,760
down this route, but I think if 
I'm right, National Insurance, 

512
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,120
again, I'll have to check. 
I'll I'll find it and we'll put 

513
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:10,320
a link to it. 
But I'm fairly confident that 

514
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,200
National Insurance has a similar
thing too. 

515
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,960
And the changes that people are 
bemoaning are don't kick in on 

516
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,400
particularly young people, IE 
entry level people. 

517
00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:27,480
And it is an element of I, I do 
struggle with people who are 

518
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:32,840
doing particularly well saying 
that they can't afford to pay 

519
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,280
people. 
And I just, I find that's a 

520
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,120
little. 
And I think you, you, you are 

521
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,600
within your rights to make a 
choice. 

522
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,320
You can say I would rather have 
the extra holiday. 

523
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,840
I, I, I, I would never take or I
would never criticize anyone's 

524
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,760
freedom to that is your 
business. 

525
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,960
But don't blame it on something 
else for the fact that you can't

526
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,640
pay the people what they 
deserve. 

527
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,080
And quite frankly, remember my 
business lecture? 

528
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,720
Am I saying if you can't pay 
afford to pay someone a living 

529
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,240
wage you're a crap business 
person? 

530
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,400
Yeah. 
If you need the government to 

531
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:14,080
support your staff salaries, you
are a terrible business person. 

532
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:19,680
How is that capitalism that is 
privatised socialism that, that 

533
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,080
is just BS isn't it? 
You know, oh oh I'm a capitalist

534
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,960
and I can't possibly afford to 
pay my people a proper salary so

535
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,920
I'll let the state pay for it. 
Hello, Socialist. 

536
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,080
Yeah, you, you made the point 
earlier. 

537
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:38,120
I think of I feel like in this 
industry there is a lot of 

538
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:43,080
what's the least we can get away
with paying someone rather than 

539
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,280
what what what's the most we can
possibly pay someone because 

540
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,280
they really deserve it And 
again, not begrudging anyone of 

541
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:53,520
this, but I, you know towards I 
got fed up year after year. 

542
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,640
I made profit every single year 
I ran a branch yeah. 

543
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,640
I didn't feel myself getting any
richer. 

544
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,320
Yeah, you look at the extra 
holidays, the nicer car, the 

545
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,160
bigger houses of, of certain 
people. 

546
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,200
But then at the same time, in 
the end I went, I've had enough 

547
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,640
of this. 
I'm, I'm in control of my own 

548
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:13,720
destiny. 
I'm going to make a change, 

549
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,600
which I did and thankfully touch
wood. 

550
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,080
As things go. 
I'm in a much, you know, better 

551
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,200
place professionally, personally
than I was several years ago 

552
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,080
when I left. 
But I, I think there's quite a 

553
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:29,760
few younger people who expect 
everything on a plate right now,

554
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,480
like instant gratification. 
That's not me being ageist 

555
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,720
because I think there's some 
incredibly hard working younger 

556
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,040
people out there, but there are 
also some people who aren't 

557
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,880
prepared to do you know, those 
few years of hard graft in the 

558
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,680
dark to get. 
Do you know, do you know who we 

559
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,600
should blame for that? 
The parents. 

560
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,960
Yeah. 
The very people who've raised 

561
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,120
these people, who've raised a 
bunch of indolent, selfish, 

562
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:01,360
entitled people, IE the parents 
who are moaning about how young 

563
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,160
people behave, are exactly the 
people who raised them. 

564
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,560
Yeah, fair comment. 
And I think we need to look 

565
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,840
harder in the mirror of why 
things are happening, the right 

566
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,200
thing. 
And I, to be honest with you, I,

567
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:21,760
I know so many lazy old people. 
I mean, seriously, I mean the 

568
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,880
idea. 
I mean, I, I know tons of 

569
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:28,880
entitled pensioners. 
I know, you know, I don't buy 

570
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,160
this whole generational thing. 
I think pretty much people are 

571
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,560
similar in certain ways. 
I think yes, people are slightly

572
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,240
more distracted. 
I think younger generation are 

573
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,400
living a world where they see 
all the time. 

574
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,000
And we could up with the biggest
social experiment on a group, 

575
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,720
group of people that could ever 
be conducted without that 

576
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,920
mission or consent, which is 
social media to show them these 

577
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:54,800
amazing worlds. 
They can live 247365 and expect 

578
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,080
them to have a normal sense of 
reality. 

579
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,240
Well, who voted for that? 
We did. 

580
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,400
We didn't. 
We, we the old did not create a 

581
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,920
system that protected our 
children and I know it. 

582
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,280
You know those sketches you see 
of kids where they've drawn 

583
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,520
pictures of their parents and 
the parents faces are blocked 

584
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,280
down because they're behind 
mobile phones? 

585
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,680
I mean, know thyself. 
Remove the plank out of your own

586
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,440
eye before you criticize the 
young. 

587
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,440
I mean, it is a bit it, it, it, 
it annoys me that people aren't 

588
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,880
aware of their own bias. 
And you've seen on 30 years of 

589
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,960
marketing, the course I do is 
everything you know is wrong and

590
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,520
you are just basically ridden 
with 186 biases. 

591
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,200
So at least start being aware of
that and approach the world from

592
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,080
that position rather than I've 
got a Ferrari, but it's National

593
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,880
Insurance fault. 
I'm going for another afternoon 

594
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,280
playing golf. 
But the young are the lazy ones,

595
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:52,640
so. 
I'll get I'll. 

596
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:58,520
Get off my soapbox now, but. 
I'm I'm desperately trying to 

597
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:06,920
find a quote now, which I don't.
Ah, here we go. 

598
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,920
So I read this in a newsletter 
the other day and we are 

599
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,200
massively going off on a tangent
so we need to get back on track 

600
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:13,880
in a second. 
Simon. 

601
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,160
Go on, go. 
You're in charge, Simon. 

602
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:20,840
You charge. 
Charlie Munger said I have what 

603
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,160
I call an iron prescription that
helps me keep saying when I 

604
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,040
naturally drift toward 
preferring 1 ideology over 

605
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,120
another. 
And that is I say I'm not 

606
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,160
entitled to have an opinion on 
this subject unless I can state 

607
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,080
the arguments against my 
position better than the people 

608
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,320
do who are supporting it. 
I think only when I reach that 

609
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:50,880
stage am I qualified to speak. 
That is an exemplary. 

610
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,040
Good isn't. 
That that is exemplary. 

611
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,400
There's I'm just, I'm again, I'm
going to, Socrates said. 

612
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,320
I am wiser only in this. 
I do not suppose that I know 

613
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:11,719
what I do not know. 
And we'd all be, I mean it. 

614
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,480
In Greek times, I don't know, 
was a virtue. 

615
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,360
Yeah. 
Whereas here you have to have 

616
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,760
everything with absolute 
certainty and everything's in 

617
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,840
tribes. 
You know, there was a guy who's 

618
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,679
been commenting to me around on 
LinkedIn. 

619
00:34:26,679 --> 00:34:28,880
He's going, oh, you're so left 
wing, Simon. 

620
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,199
And it's like I I would at the 
Daily Telegraph, the Daily Mail.

621
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:35,920
I worked in the city. 
I was the CEO of finding country

622
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:37,600
around marketing for Knight 
Frank. 

623
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:38,920
I've always run my own 
businesses. 

624
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,679
I've been I'm in the private 
industry in my entire life. 

625
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:43,840
How am I right? 
How am I left? 

626
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:48,920
Sorry, left wing. 
And what I'm not is I'm not, so 

627
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,000
I'm not. 
I'm not tied the football scarf 

628
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,159
so tight around my neck I've 
lost the ability to think 

629
00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:57,400
critically. 
I'm not tribal. 

630
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,720
I mean a plague on all the 
houses of the pot of the pot. 

631
00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:02,800
Party parties. 
I wouldn't associate with any of

632
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:03,560
them. 
I think most of them are 

633
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,680
incompetent. 
But what I do like is data. 

634
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,040
Yeah. 
And just on the like, the bias 

635
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,680
side of things and you're, 
you're going to your course as a

636
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,000
great example of, of saying 
about that internal BIOS. 

637
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,800
We all we all have. 
I try and go to various 

638
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,240
different events both inside and
outside of industry. 

639
00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:28,040
Even if I'm like, I don't like 
this person, but I'm going to 

640
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:30,640
I'm going to go attend that 
event and hear them speak in 

641
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,000
person because I want to get 
someone else's opinion, but I 

642
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,600
don't necessarily agree with to 
have a more balanced view rather

643
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,320
than just, you know, classic 
social media feeding you what 

644
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,320
you already think and know to 
reiterate your points. 

645
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,160
Yeah, right. 
Let's get back on track. 

646
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:52,920
So pages 30313233 because I'm 
conscious of time trying to get 

647
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,000
them all together. 
I'm putting you on the spot now,

648
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,720
but you've got on those pages 
kind of pay structure through or

649
00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:06,520
pay paid amount via seniority, 
size of turnover and location. 

650
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,400
Is that if I can take all those 
forwards? 

651
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,680
Is there anything in particular 
you would take away from from 

652
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,200
those I? 
Mean the reality is if you want 

653
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,200
to earn more money in this 
industry and it's semi teaching 

654
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,040
grandmothers like gags earn 
more. 

655
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,360
You earn more by being in a 
larger company, more senior with

656
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,160
a higher turnover in the South 
and London. 

657
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,760
Yeah, yeah. 
Wow, that is so revelatory. 

658
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,360
But it is interesting in terms 
of, you know that the the charts

659
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,840
aren't as extreme as you might 
expect. 

660
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,600
There's a good opportunity to 
apart from the seniority thing, 

661
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,480
which is very steep, but you 
kind of expect that. 

662
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,760
And that's true of every 
organization is the regional one

663
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,400
was interesting. 
They're not as varied as I 

664
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,800
thought they would be. 
London and the Southeast do come

665
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,600
out quite significantly, but the
rest of the country is pretty 

666
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,600
similar. 
So that's kind of interesting. 

667
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,440
And the curves in terms of, you 
know, by turnover and size of 

668
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,280
business, OK, they rise as the 
organisations get bigger, but 

669
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,080
it's not a steep climb. 
It's not like you're going to 

670
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,560
earn vastly more. 
So what it does say to me is 

671
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,160
find the kind of work 
environment that you're happiest

672
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,760
in because you may be happiest 
in a large business and with 

673
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,720
large turnover and large number 
of employees and you will on 

674
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:31,800
average earn more because that's
the nature of things. 

675
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,400
But if you prefer the smaller, 
more family base, more 

676
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,440
independent, you know, the more 
kind of like close to the 

677
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,400
community that you're in, choose
to work somewhere you're happy 

678
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,320
because the difference to your 
salary will be there, but it's 

679
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,480
probably not as big as you think
it is unless you rise to the 

680
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:53,520
very top. 
Very succinctly put for a few 

681
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:54,960
pages in one there. 
There we go. 

682
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:03,240
So moving on to page 34, very 
far, but employed versus 

683
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:08,600
self-employed. 
So average of all 38,611 

684
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:14,560
employee 39,651, self-employed 
36,061. 

685
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:19,080
So if I've read that correctly, 
is self-employed everything it's

686
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,360
cracked up to be from a monetary
point of view as an average? 

687
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,160
So I think there's several 
things going on there. 

688
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,400
Self-employment works perfectly 
if you want to be self-employed 

689
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,160
and I don't buy the lie that 
everyone can be self-employed. 

690
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,640
It's not true, it's not for 
everybody. 

691
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,960
I mean, I've been self-employed 
since 2003. 

692
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,280
I've had amazing times and I've 
had terrible times, but I'm 

693
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,200
basically unemployable. 
So it's self-employment. 

694
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,200
The end person who would hire me
is me, basically. 

695
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,160
I think in the scheme of things,
So it works for me, works for 

696
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:49,440
some people. 
Yeah. 

697
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,440
You are much more likely, not 
much. 

698
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:57,280
You are more likely to earn a 
higher salary than if you're 

699
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,320
self-employed than if you're 
employed. 

700
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,200
Sorry, but you're also more 
likely to earn a lower salary 

701
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,560
than if you're employed. 
Yeah. 

702
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,960
So the two ends of the the 
curve, it's like a reverse bell 

703
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:15,960
curve, whatever that's called an
unbelled curve is basically 

704
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,280
you'll earn more, like to earn 
less and you're more unlike to 

705
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,680
mine more. 
But the number of people who 

706
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,040
earn more in employed or 
self-employed isn't very many 

707
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,520
anyway. 
But what we need to uncouple 

708
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,760
from that is the flexibility 
that self-employment gives you. 

709
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,880
For example, you could be a 
working parent and make more 

710
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,880
time for looking after kids. 
It might be a part time gig 

711
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,880
aside your main time job. 
And I really want to get into 

712
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,200
that in 2027 and try and explore
those factors more because you 

713
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,640
need to kind of control for all 
the variables. 

714
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,640
That's quite hard to do in an 
industry that doesn't like doing

715
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,640
surveys about money. 
So I need to get into that a 

716
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,440
little bit further and this way 
that there's ways around I can 

717
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:59,080
do that. 
But the myth that is dangerous 

718
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:03,920
is being self-employed means you
learn £100,000 or more BS. 

719
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,760
Yeah. 
The data doesn't bear that out. 

720
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,000
You are marginally more like to 
earn that. 

721
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,080
But a very small fraction of 
people employed or self-employed

722
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,720
do earn that. 
And I think again, I say again, 

723
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,000
for some people, self-employment
is literally the best thing they

724
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,600
could ever do. 
They will have amazing lives 

725
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,720
that are much more flexible. 
They'll have to work bloody hard

726
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:29,280
because there's no real support 
in terms of what a corporation 

727
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,040
would give. 
There's some great trainers, 

728
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,840
mentors and support systems 
within all the self-employed 

729
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,200
models, to be honest with you, 
but it's not the same as a 

730
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:41,240
monthly paycheck. 
So the best advice I can give is

731
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,520
to have very honest conversation
with your significant other 

732
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,040
because basically, if you're 
going to do it, you're going to 

733
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,000
jump together and you can put 
them through a lot of 

734
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:52,120
uncertainty, have a really long 
runway financially, it'll take 

735
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,800
far longer than you think. 
And I would strongly recommend. 

736
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,160
You've got to learn from the 
best. 

737
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,360
There's some amazing mentors and
individuals in self-employment. 

738
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,720
Learn from them, but also 
download the voice of the agent 

739
00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:07,000
and copy everything it says the 
growth agents do. 

740
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:10,280
And that's kind of like what I 
do. 

741
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:16,000
But strap in, because it's 
bloody hard work to be a 

742
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,320
success. 
Yeah, I agree. 

743
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,000
I think that, yeah, a lot of 
sold the dream, aren't they, 

744
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,520
that you can pick your kids up 
from school and you work part 

745
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,160
time, da, da, da, da, da. 
And I was listening to Russell 

746
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,680
Jervis on a podcast whilst 
walking the dogs earlier and 

747
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,360
Russell was like, you know, if 
he was mentoring agents, he'd be

748
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,240
saying what, you know, strap in 
that first 1218 months, you're 

749
00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:40,840
going to work harder than you 
ever have. 

750
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,120
But you know, if you, if you do 
the right things, follow the 

751
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,400
processes, you, you should get 
the reward at the end. 

752
00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:49,920
So don't believe everything you 
see on social media. 

753
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,600
And also my funny thing is for 
when people say I love and I'm 

754
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,720
going a bit off now, but they're
like, Oh yeah, I get to do the 

755
00:41:56,720 --> 00:41:59,400
school run. 
My mum and dad hated doing the 

756
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,440
school run. 
I couldn't think of anything 

757
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,400
worse. 
I'd happily go chained to a 

758
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:04,960
desk. 
I wouldn't have to do a school 

759
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,240
run. 
But that might just be just be 

760
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:11,400
me on that right. 
We're going to shoot quite far 

761
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,640
forward now, yeah. 
There's a whole bunch of tables 

762
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:14,680
on that. 
I'm not sure how much I want to 

763
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:19,280
get into the downs. 
And then we are going forward to

764
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,320
Page 56. 
Well. 

765
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,760
That's the kind of process of 
progress we like. 

766
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:30,320
Yeah, we've we've we've flown by
on this so so anyone playing 

767
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,080
along at home. 
So blue is agents, green is the 

768
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,000
great British public. 
Yeah, yeah. 

769
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:41,840
So if you look kind of at the 
middle of the chart, what if I'm

770
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:46,440
reading it right, is the estate 
agents compared to the British 

771
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,400
public, are more likely to be 
motivated by career, the money, 

772
00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:51,680
willing to sacrifice to get 
ahead. 

773
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,840
They are worried about the 
direction of their professional 

774
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,680
life. 
A little bit more spontaneous, 

775
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,600
but very much work hard, play 
hard, that pub culture, and then

776
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,160
very much love their job. 
Yeah, I'd like you to elaborate 

777
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,760
on that. 
But just before you do, the one 

778
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,840
point I'm going to make is, and 
I think kind of the biggest 

779
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,480
difference I see there is that I
love my job because I find when 

780
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,240
I catch up with polite friends, 
they're always ask and monitor 

781
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:21,200
the property market. 
Right. 

782
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,200
How's the property market? 
They love asking, but how's work

783
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:25,520
going? 
Like what's going on? 

784
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,320
I'm like, yeah, what about your 
work? 

785
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:28,480
They're like, oh shit, I hate 
it. 

786
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,080
Let's not talk about that. 
Like everyone's always like, oh,

787
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:32,640
yeah, I hate my job. 
Yeah. 

788
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,880
People in typically an estate 
agency match up with a survey of

789
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:41,720
yeah, I love what I do. 
Yeah, I mean, I found it really.

790
00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:44,720
And again, This is why, you 
know, I remain an advocate of 

791
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:47,040
the not remain. 
I am an advocate of the 

792
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,880
industry. 
You know, I, you know, I've seen

793
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,720
done this data on tons of 
industries and seeing that level

794
00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:55,080
of I love my job and nearly 50% 
say they love their job. 

795
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,440
Well, actually, you know, 52% it
is 50 percent, 52% say they love

796
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,000
their job and then on 4550% more
like the population hold to do 

797
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:06,000
so. 
You know, that's an amazing 

798
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,440
metric to have. 
That's something the industry 

799
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,000
should be proud of. 
It almost should be used in the 

800
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,720
recruitment is go people who 
work in this industry love this 

801
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:17,360
industry and that, and that's 
kind of like that's really good 

802
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,720
and it's interesting, you know, 
but you know this industry for 

803
00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:22,640
you, if you're prepared to 
sacrifice free time to get ahead

804
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,720
that if that's not you don't 
come here because you'll be 

805
00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:30,840
asked to do that. 
You know it is interesting also 

806
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:35,200
and this is def a failure of 
employers and some of the models

807
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,960
out there that kind of bring 
people on board is that kind of 

808
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,440
worried about direction of 
professional life. 

809
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,920
A business's job is to show that
and convey that and say this is 

810
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:50,240
where you could go not myths and
legends and unicorns and 600,000

811
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:53,120
lbs salaries. 
But realistically where here 

812
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,640
training comes into that, paying
for them to go on courses and 

813
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,400
becoming more rounded human 
beings, giving them free time, 

814
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,720
duvet days and some flexibility 
that would make it more more 

815
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:06,800
pleasant to do that job because 
they work bloody hard. 

816
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,120
If they're successful, you want 
to look after the talent. 

817
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,840
And if you're an employer of a 
high strategy, you don't want 

818
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,720
them to be self-employed because
they're your rain makers. 

819
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,600
So there's lots you could do. 
But I think the central stat 

820
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,480
behind all that, and you point 
out straight away, is people in 

821
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,080
this industry love their job. 
And you're right, I've said on 

822
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,280
several occasions after leaving 
various companies, I'm never 

823
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,640
going back into a state agency. 
I've ended back up on it and 

824
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,240
I've now stuck to it now for a 
decade. 

825
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,920
And I've made more professional 
friends who are now friends. 

826
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,120
I've had more fun in this 
industry than many others. 

827
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:46,120
And yeah, I it's addictive. 
And you're right, what's really 

828
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,440
nice about it is everyone will 
always ask you about your job 

829
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,040
and what you do for a living. 
But not in a hostile way, in a 

830
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,120
genuinely curious way. 
Yeah. 

831
00:45:55,040 --> 00:46:01,440
If you work in banking in the 
city, you are the enemy, you 

832
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,680
know, What do you live at? 
I work for the city, in the City

833
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:04,920
of London. 
For a bank. 

834
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,360
Oh, well, I was a banker. 
Yeah, there we go. 

835
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:12,240
And I know estate aliens are 
often the butt of the joke, but 

836
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,320
what's happening to the property
market? 

837
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,000
I don't know. 
Christopher Watkin jokes about 

838
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:18,240
this. 
What you always ask at every 

839
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:20,480
event? 
I get asked it all the time. 

840
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,400
It's like, no, bloody no. 
I haven't got my 20 A open. 

841
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,560
Is it all right? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with 

842
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:29,080
you. 
I think such a valid point you 

843
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,800
make in terms from a recruitment
point of view, as an industry we

844
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,000
should be saying what a high 
percentage of people say they 

845
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,240
love their job compared to the 
the. 

846
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:43,120
Literally get vox pops of people
saying in industry I love being 

847
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,120
a state agent because I 
literally find people that their

848
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:47,800
dream home. 
Yeah, brilliant. 

849
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,480
And I think on the willing to 
sacrifice to get ahead actually 

850
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,360
and worried about direction 
professional life. 

851
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:59,120
So on the direction professional
life, I sat running a branch for

852
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,360
several years, made profit every
year and I just looked one day 

853
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,560
outside and went I think this is
me for the next 30-40 years if I

854
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,160
don't do anything. 
How depressing there was, there 

855
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:11,920
was a ceiling. 
It was like when I'm waiting for

856
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,400
someone to to die because it's 
just older people, I just got to

857
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:20,040
wait for them to go extinct and 
then the willing sacrifice to go

858
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,480
ahead. 
This isn't like our poor old me,

859
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,560
but the amount of things I 
missed out on over the years 

860
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,200
from working weekends, Bank 
holidays where my mates who go 

861
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:31,760
to things because they worked in
Monday to Friday, 9:00 to 5:00. 

862
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,240
But I guess maybe they're a bit 
weekend millionaires, if that 

863
00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:36,480
makes sense. 
They were living for the 

864
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,400
weekend. 
They hated their job so much. 

865
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,240
At least they got the weekend. 
I'm sat there going. 

866
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:43,560
This is so annoying. 
I have to work back weekends and

867
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:44,960
back holidays. 
I'm missing out on time with my 

868
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:46,880
friends. 
But actually I was loving what I

869
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:48,440
was doing. 
There's always a positive to a 

870
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:49,240
negative, isn't there? 
Yeah. 

871
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,280
Absolutely. 
The willing to sacrifice to get 

872
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,040
ahead as well. 
I love a Tom Panos saying which 

873
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,000
I'm probably going to butcher, 
but real estate is the hardest 

874
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,160
working. 
Sorry, Highest paid, hardest 

875
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:05,760
working or lowest paid easy 
work, but but it's like you can 

876
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:11,360
go into it to your point at 16 
me no qualifications and you 

877
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,880
know, rise through the ranks and
pretty good money if you if you 

878
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:17,440
sacrifice and you work hard at 
it. 

879
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:26,280
Right. 
Last one on part 4 is page 58. 

880
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:27,320
Did you know I was talking about
that? 

881
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,880
Yeah, yeah. 
Can you can, I'm, I'm slightly 

882
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,960
confused by it. 
So can you just elaborate? 

883
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,160
I knew that it was of interest, 
but I I didn't quite 100% 

884
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:40,480
understand. 
It so basically the essence of 

885
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,600
it is we have quite a lot of 
people who are going to move 

886
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,520
jobs. 
Is that in the industry? 

887
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,720
In in the industry, that's how 
this is the industry compared to

888
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:54,680
itself. 
So this is the next 12 months 

889
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,480
versus the past 12 months? 
Right, that's why I wasn't sure.

890
00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:59,840
That's, that's the, this isn't 
now comparing to TV, this is the

891
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:01,920
industry looking at itself is 
what do you intend to do in the 

892
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:03,440
next 12 months? 
What have you done in the last 

893
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,280
12 months? 
So we've got baked in. 

894
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:10,360
So last 12 months, 35% of the 
people churned so they left 

895
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:14,160
their jobs, 25% have already 
said they intend to do it in the

896
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,520
next 12 months. 
So one in four people in our 

897
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:20,520
industry expected to churn as in
leave. 

898
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:28,520
Leave the industry altogether? 
Yeah, Wow, we're losing great 

899
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,080
people out of the industry. 
Oh yeah, I think we definitely 

900
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:32,800
are. 
Again, I think there's some 

901
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:37,720
incredible people who go. 
You know what it's that was he 

902
00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:41,120
called quiet retirement. 
And I think it's an element of 

903
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:45,080
actually the rewards don't match
the amount of work I have to do.

904
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,200
And for someone who is really, 
really good, but they're an 

905
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,240
employee and they see their 
colleagues who are particularly 

906
00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:55,160
motivated to be self-employed, 
doing so much fantastically 

907
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:56,880
better. 
But they're honest enough 

908
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,280
themselves they couldn't be 
self-employed because that's not

909
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:00,840
who they are. 
Or that that partner doesn't 

910
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,920
support them in doing it or they
don't have a runway. 

911
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,360
And all the good reasons they 
might actually go, you know 

912
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:09,160
what, I'm going to go and get an
easier job that pays me. 

913
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,560
Do you want an easier job that 
pays you more? 

914
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:17,640
And it's kind of like, yeah, and
you're no longer the butt of the

915
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,880
jokes if you're not an estate or
lettings agents anymore. 

916
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,640
You you can point that Simon, 
sorry to cut across to you. 

917
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,280
That's fine. 
Easier, let's say easier work 

918
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,680
paid better was why I left 
estate agencies going to Procter

919
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,800
and and and the owner of 
business like you are. 

920
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,960
What are you doing? 
You're an absolute lunatic to 

921
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:36,400
leave behind this career you've 
built. 

922
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,920
I was like, no weekends, no bank
holidays, more holiday. 

923
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,520
The work is, I'm going to say 
easier because it's B to B. 

924
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,080
I've not got the emotion of the 
public and I'm actually going to

925
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:52,480
get paid better. 
What like, come on, if you're in

926
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:56,080
my shoes, what would you do? 
And I got told to fuck off. 

927
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,440
And that was the end of that. 
But but like, it's it like, 

928
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,120
yeah, it's it, it, it's crazy. 
So it it makes sense that that's

929
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:04,560
what the what the survey 
revealed. 

930
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,760
I was actually see, I can bring 
it really quickly because I did,

931
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,920
I, I didn't put it in because 
again, you got to kind of limit 

932
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:18,040
what data is out there. 
But I'm sure there's a would 

933
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,200
switch career if money was no 
option. 

934
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,360
Yeah, 20% of people of industry 
would switch money if no was 

935
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,960
option was no option. 
So again, we're one in five, one

936
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:33,640
in four people in the industry 
are kind of like they've got 1 

937
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:35,880
foot out the door. 
Yeah. 

938
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:41,640
And I think we need to look at 
that as an industry and what 

939
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:43,680
that means and how we address 
it. 

940
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,080
But we've written the reason why
we do this people and Salary 1 

941
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:52,080
is I think it's top. 
You know, I know Devil Smith, I 

942
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,880
don't know, Raina personnel and 
a few others have produced 

943
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:57,400
really good reports on this 
stuff. 

944
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:00,040
But I don't think they get the 
coverage in the airing that they

945
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,360
need because it's such an 
important industry is how do we 

946
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,160
motivate our people and how to 
reward our people. 

947
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,480
And as we'll see in September, 
how do we stop our people being 

948
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,520
discriminated against? 
Because the interesting thing 

949
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,040
about that was our people are 
more likely to be discriminated 

950
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,560
by clients. 
It's bad by colleagues, but it's

951
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,240
worse by clients. 
And it's like we need to just 

952
00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:23,280
work that one out and make this 
a better, safer place to work, 

953
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,040
which is kind of the whole 
essence of the report, really. 

954
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,040
Yeah, agreed. 
Right. 

955
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:33,200
So that is the close of part 4 
to voice the agent 2026 before I

956
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:38,040
sign this off as usual, Simon, 
this is your chance to plug 

957
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,120
events coming up. 
We've got no shame here, so plug

958
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:42,920
the way. 
Simon, What? 

959
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,080
What have you got coming up that
you you're going to talk to us 

960
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:46,760
about? 
So in the report we launched and

961
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:50,800
called the faculty, which is me 
and the fantastic Joe Bourne, 

962
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,680
Claire Yates and Danny Nash have
come together essentially, we've

963
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,080
been talking a long time about, 
you know, could we we all do our

964
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,640
own training. 
Can we all come together and do 

965
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,280
a day where we just show what 
each of us does? 

966
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,440
So for one day you can get the 
Benet yet 4 for the price of one

967
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:08,640
basically. 
And that would really help the 

968
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:10,600
industry in terms because we're 
all committed to helping 

969
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,280
industry better. 
So date for the diary location 

970
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,440
is not announced yet, but it'll 
be somewhere in the South, I 

971
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:19,240
suspect, but the 14th of October
and that'll be the four of us 

972
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,560
for a day. 
We'll make it inexpensive, be 

973
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,120
limited numbers, but it'll be a 
good fun day. 

974
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:28,480
And anyone who's been on any of 
Danny's courses or certainly Joe

975
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,320
and Claire's women estate agent 
courses, they brought along me 

976
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:36,040
to make it a bit more gender 
diverse because those white men 

977
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,200
were really suffering in this 
economy. 

978
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,760
All those old white men. 
But no, generally we all get on 

979
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:43,680
really well. 
We all really respect each other

980
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:45,360
and we all really do each 
other's courses. 

981
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:46,600
We all been on each other's 
courses. 

982
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,240
So we thought we should do this.
14th of October date, location 

983
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:51,720
to be announced and then final 
date for that is 20th of 

984
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:53,520
November at the University of 
Oxford. 

985
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,960
The reasons for that will soon 
be revealed, but it's going to 

986
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,720
be a second run of the Voice of 
the Asian Conference where 

987
00:54:01,720 --> 00:54:04,920
genuinely, if you want to know 
what's going to happen in the 

988
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:08,440
future, you want to be in that 
room because the best thinkers 

989
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,120
will be there. 
And me. 

990
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:13,920
Awesome, There we go. 
It's as if he's done plugs 

991
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,400
before. 
He knows what he's doing, guys 

992
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,200
and girls. 
Thanks for everyone listening. 

993
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,200
Please do remember to like, 
review, subscribe, follow, share

994
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,920
the podcast and stay tuned for 
part 5 coming out very soon. 

995
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:27,040
So, as always, that just leaves 
me to say Mr. Simon Ledbetter, 

996
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:28,240
thank you very much for being an
amazing. 

997
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:29,600
Guest always a pleasure.